Menu

LEX File Exchange
EA Support Files
SC4 Wikipedia
Network Addon Mod
Dependencies
Chat

Author Topic: Tarkusian Cities (Update 107-08/23/2020-West Chemeketa Reconfig, Part 1)  (Read 516670 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Haljackey

  • NAM Team
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 2477
  • Total likes: 976
  • Reputation: 15
  • CL: King of the Road
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 14-10/8/2007--The Highway Plan in Action . . .)
« Reply #180 on: October 15, 2007, 09:21:39 PM »
Well I finally made it here, and I am here to stay.  Nice job with your region so far, and I will watch this thread as it is updated.  This is a huge improvement over old Argentum!

Offline calibanX

Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 14-10/8/2007--The Highway Plan in Action . . .)
« Reply #181 on: November 01, 2007, 02:40:34 AM »
This is great. I hope you return to finish this. I'll be checking in.
Where City and Country Flow Together

Offline Tarkus

  • Administrator
  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 11467
  • Total likes: 5047
  • Reputation: 73
  • NAM Team Tankadillo
    • NAM HQ
  • CL: Dr. PuzzlePiece
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #182 on: November 01, 2007, 04:19:19 AM »
Your timing is all too coincidental, calibanX. ;) 

Hi everyone-

Just back for a quick update, the first in quite some time.  RL and getting things done on the MIS setup have occupied my time as of late, but I've got some interesting things to show here. 

This pictures aren't terribly exciting, but they show how work is now progressing on Highway 104 (formerly Highway 4) near downtown.  As you can see, there's a lot of earth getting upturned here.  Some of this land will be redeveloped, and some of it will go toward improving 104, which will certainly need it as the main connector to downtown.  Still some rough slopes in here, which will be fixed as part of the improvement project.





I also wanted to answer some of the interesting questions Joan (Jmouse) asked regarding the transportation systems and their development.  It's far from being a "dumb question", and actually a very good one.  Throughout this MD, there's been a lot of focus on two cities, Wakeman and Argentum.  The ways in which I'm dealing with these two cities is quite different, and I would like to at least start describing how I plan everything out.

There are two main goals I have for all of my transportation systems--1) in-game functionality and 2) realism.  The situation with the systems in Argentum is rather interesting, as I will illustrate by showing my Traffic DataView for the city tile in which downtown Argentum is located. 

This is the overall Road Traffic load on the city's networks. 



As you'll notice, most of the city's roads are green and properly functioning.  There are a couple of yellow and red spots, however.  Those are local residential streets, which I have mostly mitigated through various means--these include personal modifications to the Traffic Simulator, re-design and also the installation of the CAM.  Eventually, I will probably be switching over to the Traffic Simulator that mott has worked out for the NWM [link].  If you haven't already, I'd suggest checking out his thread, as he has some very interesting and insightful things to say about the game's pathfinding engine and transit networks in general, and has offered his Alpha versions up for download.

So more or less, the network layout appears to be uncongested.  Here's the overall Road Traffic volumes for the city tile.


Traffic volumes are more or less evenly spread out across the city, though there is one notably dark blue path down in the southeast corner of the city.  Interestingly, though, if you were to look at the roads that were getting the most use, the vast majority of them would be Avenues.  The highway system, in this pic, is barely being used.  Of course, part of the highway system has been disconnected from the surface street network as a result of massive construction.  However, one of the main things I am aiming to do with the re-design of the regional highway infrastructure is to make sure it gets used.  As you will soon see in coming updates, the addition of the RHW Modular Interchange System (MIS) will assist a great deal in making sure Argentum has an effective highway system.

There is also a severe lack of realism on the current highways in the region, particularly with the placement of exits/interchanges, lack of directness, and the overall highway density.  The region was mostly built before I really knew much about scale--it's kind of become a guinea pig for "retrofitting" an older, existing city and increasing its realism. 

Here's another couple of Traffic Volume counts I thought I'd show you all for the heck of it.

This here is the Pedestrian Data:


And one that will probably shock you.  The Bus Data:


Looks a bit empty, doesn't it? ;)  That's because it is.  That's right, there are no buses running in Argentum.  Actually, no mass transit of any kind.  I'll elaborate on my reasoning behind this in later updates.

The situation with Wakeman's traffic planning is an entirely different animal, and will also be explained later.  It's been a very carefully controlled system.

Now onto replies:

Kevin (BigSlark):  Yes, I'm at it again.  I can't help it. :D  If I had a major Interstate going in nearby, I'd probably be going over and checking it out as well.  Unfortunately, I haven't been around anything quite of that scale here in Oregon, but the closest we probably came was US Highway 26 getting massively redesigned in the late-1990s/early 2000s just west of Portland [link], with some rather elaborate C/D setups over a short area.  It's also in a hilly location in the Portland West Hills, so there was also quite a bit of terrain alteration required in order to make the necessary improvements. 

As far as slope mods go, I'm using the BRF without any alteration to the RHW--I'm typically using the Rail network to get smooth grades on things, though you've probably seen a few rather ridiculous looking slopes here and there--those are all on roads that are going to get torn up very soon. ;)

Dustin (thundercrack83): Thanks for the compliments.  I almost made the same pun myself, so it's all good.  In fact, I'm glad someone caught my little inside joke.   :)

James (rickmastfan67):  Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.  And of course, I'm keeping the design of Highway 61 under wraps for a little longer still, though if you look at the pics closely, you might be able to make a very educated guess. ;)

bat:  Thanks, I'm glad it was to your liking, and hope you enjoyed this latest update.

Ryan (Filasimo):  That was pretty funny how that worked out. :D  I can say that some new RHW stuff is going to work its way into the regions here in short order (as soon as I finish modding it ;)).  Everyone will have to stay tuned. :D  Thanks for the compliments on the update as well!

Jason (jplumbley):  Yes, it definitely does need some TLA-5.   :P  I've got a few places in mind for it.  We are going to have to scrounge up some more textures.  Glad the update was to your liking otherwise, though. ;)

Pat (patfirefghtr):  That is a good point about Highway 61's little swerve.  Of course, it would be a bit expensive to transplant all those redwoods given their size, and the state DOT has a good plan worked out with regards to mitigating the swerve and using it to its advantage. ;)  No repeat of the Caldera Lane/Barnaby Drive fiasco, fortunately.  Though sometimes, you never know . . .  :P 

sebes:  Glad to hear you like your new road, and it will feature prominently in a few future updates--that whole area around it is getting redeveloped with the airport going away.  Moving the airport was indeed a big decision, but I think it will be best in the long run.  Well, actually, it still needs to be done, and it gives me yet another massive construction project to work on in Argentum.   :D

And many thanks for the Google Maps link to the A2 project!  I spent probably at least an hour just staring at the A2 and the road networks in and around Amsterdam and Utrecht.  I must say, the Dutch highway administration really seems to know what they're doing.  Everything looked well-maintained, and I happened to notice a few turbine interchanges scattered about.  It's definitely given me some ideas. ;)  Thanks again!

Droftah:  Thanks for the applause.  It is very much appreciated. :)

Adam (Ennedi):  Well, they were going quickly.  :D  Thanks for the compliments on the scale and planning!  I'm using Inkscape, a vector-image program for all of my maps and plans.  At some point, I'm thinking I might write up a tutorial on mapping with Inkscape, if there's interest.

And thanks for the tip about diagonal slopes.  I've noticed that as well, even with the BRF slope mod.  The way in which Maxis designed the diagonal system kind of didn't help our cause.  I've usually been laying rails to smooth things out as much as possible, which has helped a great deal, but it's still tricky sometimes. 

Joan (Jmouse):  Thanks for the compliments on the update and for asking a very good question--hope I was at least able to answer it with some degree of success.  It's probably something I may revisit as well.

Haljackey:  Hey, glad to see you made it over here, and thanks for the compliments! 

calibanX:  Thanks, glad you've enjoyed it so far, and I'm definitely planning on keeping it going, though at various times, it may be a bit sporadic.

Hope you all enjoyed the latest installment.  I'll be back with some new modding developments and applications for them here quite soon. ;)

-Alex (Tarkus)

Offline Filasimo

Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 14-10/8/2007--The Highway Plan in Action . . .)
« Reply #183 on: November 01, 2007, 04:30:26 AM »
great update Alex  :thumbsup: i love seeing traffic data and how fully functional they are in cities. i cant wait to see further development of the 104 ()stsfd()
Plaza Mall Project
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2171.0
Coming Soon to the LEX!

NAM Team
What can NAM do for you?
 

Offline Shadow Assassin

  • NAM Team
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 3232
  • Total likes: 12
  • Reputation: 25
  • Needs more cowbell.
  • CL: The Grid Reaper
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 14-10/8/2007--The Highway Plan in Action . . .)
« Reply #184 on: November 01, 2007, 04:34:37 AM »
Good update! Hopefully, the roads surrounding 104 are fixed up along with the upgrade, they seem a little bumpy at the moment.
New Horizons Productions
Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dedgren ♦ dmscopio ♦ Ennedi
emilin ♦ Heblem ♦ jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ papab2000
Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
See my uploads on the LEX!

Offline bat

  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 8999
  • Total likes: 2
  • Reputation: 20
    • Capporth City - my first and only MD
  • CL: bester deutscher Verfechter
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #185 on: November 01, 2007, 04:53:19 AM »
Wonderful new update there! Great work! Looking forward to more...

Offline BigSlark

  • 3RR Team
  • Forums Senator
  • *
  • Posts: 1004
  • Total likes: 1
  • Reputation: 11
  • SC4D Your Face
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #186 on: November 01, 2007, 08:28:23 AM »
Alex,

Your methodology is behind the construction is interesting. I like watching you update an older region, it shows it can be done. The only warning I have is be careful with CAM in an older region-it can cause some serious demand problems.

US 26 looks like an interesting drive and the construction looks like it was great to see-I wouldn't want to commute through it though!

Right now MDOT is in the process of turning a RHW-4 into a RHW-6C with frontage roads in the northern suburbs of Jackson, that's a pretty interesting  project to watch. They're currently working on the frontage road dirt, apparently they're going to route all the traffic on the 3-lane frontage roads for awhile while they rebuild the main travel lanes down to the subbase! They'll be done in mid-2009, which isn't bad considering the number of overpasses and ramps they have to build, not to mention they have to 100,000+ vehicles a day traveling smoothly through the work zone...

If I ever figure out the BAT I've got some great ideas for new highway construction lots...

Cheers,
Kevin


Offline Jmouse

  • Administrator
  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 4648
  • Total likes: 32
  • Reputation: 36
  • Follow the quest.
  • CL: Mouseketeer!
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #187 on: November 01, 2007, 11:58:14 AM »
Thanks for the informative update, Tarkus. You've made me glad I asked! :D I'm not sure how a city can run so smoothly without mass transit, but it looks like you know how to make it happen. What was the population when the traffic data was gathered?
And I hope you'll revisit this subject from time to time. I'll admit I'd rather decorate a park or campus than build a highway, but transportation is one of the most important and difficult elements in SC4. You might call it a necessary evil!

Until next time...
Joan

Offline Haljackey

  • NAM Team
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 2477
  • Total likes: 976
  • Reputation: 15
  • CL: King of the Road
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #188 on: November 01, 2007, 03:14:23 PM »
Interesting, Tarkus (Alex), I will be following...

Just one comment:  as you stated in your caption, the slope of the highway is really steep! Flatten that out  :satisfied:

-Haljackey

Offline Pat

  • when life tosses you lemons, make lemonade!
  • 3RR Team
  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 8812
  • Total likes: 6
  • Reputation: 45
  • SC4D Podcast, You Know You Wanna Hear IT!!!!
  • CL: ()pathfire() gettin' it right!
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #189 on: November 01, 2007, 07:15:23 PM »

Alex wow that was defiantly useful and informative update!!!  So Mr Tarkus are you stating that we might have anther fiasco on our hands??? lol sorry bad liner i couldn't resist, i so cant wait to see what happens on 61 and further progress of your transportation uniqueness - pat

Don't forget the SC4D Podcast is back and live on Saturdays @ 12 noon CST!! -- The Podcast soon to Return Here Linkie

Offline sebes

Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #190 on: November 02, 2007, 06:37:55 PM »
I must say, the Dutch highway administration really seems to know what they're doing. 

Don't say that load here in Holland ! It's amazing how satelite images can lead to conclusions so far from reality  :P   

The A2 project is indeed great, but about 20-30 years to late, If you study the high way network you will find missing links everywhere, causing the west of the country come to complete stand still twice per day... (and with a bit storm or snow : the entire day  &mmm

But you show different governing in your city: the massive earth upturning looks awesome!
Check my MD:               
Rhenen,NN

Offline calibanX

Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #191 on: November 03, 2007, 02:52:58 AM »
Well, that was very interesting. I'm glad you showed your traffic data views. Are you going to try to control the traffic solely by modifying the traffic simulator and adding the CAM or will you add mass transit at some point?

Great work. Keep showing us those data views. This is an interesting experiment.
Where City and Country Flow Together

Offline Ennedi

Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #192 on: November 05, 2007, 04:21:28 PM »
I'm very interested in your work, Alex. The first interesting thing for me was - from the first moment I saw your MD - an attempt to rebuild an existing city, especially to improve it's road network system. But now I see the second fascinating problem: how to make a really functioning highway system, wchich will be used by residents and then useful in the city?
I am very curious of your solutions. I will start building two main cities in Shosaloza in the near future, I have some smaller towns yet, and I will connect them using highways and RHW. So I am in the critical moment in the transit theme ;)
 In my old region (it was the first one in SC4) I tried to make something like the vascular system in the human body: the heart was a downtown with huge commercials, and it was a central point of the system, surrounded by residential and industrial areas. To go to work residents had to go from their houses to the nearest big junction, then along the big artery (highway, alley) to the center, and then to the industrial area (except these of them who were work in the center). So I had not many junctions on my highways, and I also hadn't a grid of streets and roads. Even if I had a residential area not far from an industrial one, I forced residents to go o work through the center.
 Of course, with the city development, it was necessary to make more "central points". This system worked quite good, It's interesting for me what do you think about it and what is your idea (probably it is better, you are a specialist in this theme).

Your information about mass transit (lack of :D) in Argentum is interesting for me too.
 In my old region I noticed a strange thing: if all residents had approximately the same distance to their work place (I used buses from the beginning, but no other mass transit at the first stage), the commute time was acceptable for all residents (I used the "Better Pathfinding 5xCapacity 10xSpeed 10xCommute" NAM plugin). But when I made only one additional mass transit line (for example a subway line from one of residential areas to the industrial one), I had immediately a problem with the commute time in every other residential area. So I was forced to build subway lines everywhere :D
This is the reason I am very curious what you will say about these buses ;)

If you would need any help from my speciality :D (for example easy adjusting slope heights to make viaducts etc.), tell me please here or PM me, I will help with pleasure :thumbsup: (I think it can be important when you will release the new MIS).
New Horizons Productions
Berethor - beskhu3epnm - blade2k5 - dmscopio - dedgren - Emilin - Ennedi
jplumbley - moganite - M4346 - nichter85 - papab2000 - Shadow Assassin - Tarkus - wouanagaine

Offline thundercrack83

  • Administrator
  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6384
  • Total likes: 176
  • Reputation: 38
  • CL: ()thunder() Just the stats, Man!
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #193 on: November 05, 2007, 08:39:37 PM »
Stunning update, Alex! I love the work being done on Highway 104, and the traffic data is interesting, too, though I am quite curious to hear your reason for no mass transit. I'll be looking forward to it, and the rest of your necxt update!

Offline tkirch

Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #194 on: November 06, 2007, 08:46:35 AM »
Great update and you give us other MD'ers some great ideas that I want to use.

Offline Tarkus

  • Administrator
  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 11467
  • Total likes: 5047
  • Reputation: 73
  • NAM Team Tankadillo
    • NAM HQ
  • CL: Dr. PuzzlePiece
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 16-11/11/2007--The MIS Arrives . . .)
« Reply #195 on: November 11, 2007, 06:20:31 AM »
Hi everyone-

Back with another update.  I think you'll enjoy this one.  Yes, the MIS has arrived--if you've been following the RHW Development thread [link], things have been coming along on it quite nicely, with a lot of development over the past week or so. 

Well, at any rate, here's one of the projects slated for the Bob Dylan Freeway (Highway 61 :D)--the Ferrum Road interchange, which is located on the north side of Argentum, in the Tarentum neighborhood.  Ferrum Road is particularly critical to North Argentum, providing freeway access to one of several high-tech districts in town, and it will also provide a crucial link to the new Argentum International Airport upon completion.

Construction has already begun in this shot.  Access to the freeway is currently through a rather unsafe at-grade intersection.  The pre-existing 2-lane overpass is still in place, so that traffic traveling past the highway on Ferrum Road can do so without dealing with the at-grade crossing.



The overpass demolished, with equipment in place to rebuild the overpass



A couple of trees are in the way of the ROW for the ramps to and from northbound Highway 61.  However, the environmental impact is still minimal, a major goal of these new improvement projects--the giant stands of redwoods to the south are entirely undisturbed.  As you can see, a new 4-lane overpass has been built.





The basic design here for the ramps is a Parclo AB or Folded Diamond, chosen for environmental reasons.  (Also, a rather common interchange design here in Oregon.)

The ramps to/from the Southbound lanes



The ramps to/from the Northbound lanes



The interchange will probably still get a little tweaking here, just to improve flow a little more.

It's really late here, so I'm going to pull a David--I'll be back a little later (after some sleep) with responses to all the great replies.  Some of you have brought up some very interesting points.  Thanks for all your support, and I hope you enjoyed this latest installment.

-Alex (Tarkus)







Offline Shadow Assassin

  • NAM Team
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 3232
  • Total likes: 12
  • Reputation: 25
  • Needs more cowbell.
  • CL: The Grid Reaper
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 15-11/1/2007--Traffic Data and Highway 104 Preview)
« Reply #196 on: November 11, 2007, 06:27:41 AM »
Heh, showing off yet more MIS stuff, eh? :P

It's some nice work!


edit: Whatever happened to that highway construction in Wakeman? The 7-tile wide RHW, that one. :P
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 04:07:11 PM by Shadow Assassin »
New Horizons Productions
Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dedgren ♦ dmscopio ♦ Ennedi
emilin ♦ Heblem ♦ jplumbley ♦ moganite ♦ M4346 ♦ papab2000
Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
See my uploads on the LEX!

Offline Sim_Jesse

Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 16-11/11/2007--The MIS Arrives . . .)
« Reply #197 on: November 11, 2007, 06:31:56 AM »
Wow! Simply amazing!  &apls   I think we should all give a round of applause to Tarkus here!  :D &apls &apls   Can't wait for more  &hlp  I hope you update soon :D

Offline capo

  • Forums Governor
  • *
  • Posts: 324
  • Total likes: 1
  • Reputation: 3
  • "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 16-11/11/2007--The MIS Arrives . . .)
« Reply #198 on: November 11, 2007, 06:47:14 AM »
Not only the pictures show great detail, so does the information you give with it. I think even the demolishing of one tree would be thought of carefully in your city (as in RL, where you often even need to get a permit to cut down a tree). Every stage of the construction progress very clearly explained, after reading your update you have a feeling the whole construction made sense. I hope you were as clear to the people of Argentum as well explaining this major development, any mayor can learn from you :D

Excellent update, I have been lurking the RHW Development thread yes and I'm seeing more and more pictures I very much like :D

The complete history of Evergem ->My Mayor Diary <-
Come and visit Paroch Plein!

Offline sebes

Re: Tarkusian Cities (Update 16-11/11/2007--The MIS Arrives . . .)
« Reply #199 on: November 11, 2007, 06:52:33 AM »
Grasping for breath.........   :o

That southbound ramp is amazing - wonderfull - fantastic!  
Check my MD:               
Rhenen,NN