Metarvo steps up to BAT

[Buzzit]

@Buzzit:  I imagine a simple way is to select every object and move all of their pivots to 0,0,0.  Then they will at least rotate along the same axis.  It's one of those tabs in the upper right, a button called "Effect pivot only".
Never tried this before. i will try this the first moment i have time again.
 
Some of those angles aren't so great for the power lines.  For small details, you might want to turn on anti-aliasing in the S3D.  Here is an image of what needs to be done in the Mat section (Link), I've also made a script for Xannepan that will do it automatically for you in Reader 1.4 (Link).

What reader do you mean? Ilives reader? i allready tried some programs wich should enable AA but unfortunately im running this all on windows 7 wich didn't supported those programs. but i assume you mean another reader. We might want to discuss this further in my topic to keep things clean in Metarvo's one


  Another thing that can be done (though much more time consuming) is editing the FSH directly.  FSH have alpha values, but if you don't edit the S3Ds as I mentioned, SC4 will only display the 100% opacity pixels.  I've found that doing an "Alpha Threshold" at 50% (anything more than 50% opaque becomes 100% and anything under becomes 0%) works pretty good.

Anyway, keep up the good work, glad to see you back

[DaveN]

Your models are great, but I think that some of them are overscaled... It is little too big for me. If in the game one tile have 16 meters, then arms of some of your pylon have three tiles, that almost 50 meters. It's too big. I think that pylons would have about 50 meters long and about 30 meters on the X line.

[Buzzit]

Your models are great, but I think that some of them are overscaled... It is little too big for me. If in the game one tile have 16 meters, then arms of some of your pylon have three tiles, that almost 50 meters. It's too big. I think that pylons would have about 50 meters long and about 30 meters on the X line.

i think you are underestimating the size of powerlines.
i dont know how big they are in America.
but i can tell you that some European pylons (aspecially the high voltages up to 380kV and above) have a minimum high of 40 meters. the highest type of the netherlands for example is almost 60 meters.

the length of the traverses(the 'arms' of the poles) can vary from 5 to 20 meters. 20+20 plus the structure is about 50 meters. wich is in this case realistic.

if you think these are tall i dare you to check out my page 

but i worked with the measurements of the sims and not the buildings. thats why mine for sample look so big.

but don't forget powerline pylons are really big! i underestimated them my self years ago 

[metarvo]

Buzzit (1): The NAM, with its fractional angle networks, was an inspiration to me to include matching angles in my set.  I also wanted a reason to use some of the various angle pylons included in the RL incarnation of this set.  Of course, the use of unusual angles is necessary for the type of S-curves I plan to include.

The technique I use actually involves dragging straight lines between the isolators, cloning them at two additional lower heights, and dragging the wires across these lines with Vertex and Edge snaps active so that they will droop.

Lowkee33: This method of dragging wires at various angles is one that I'll have to try sometime.  As for the alpha issues, I tried the method of editing the S3Ds in the reader as shown in the image you linked to, but it didn't have any appreciable effect on the wires for me.  Editing the FSHs is a last result for me because of the time involved, but I'm willing to do it if necessary.  I welcome any additional help on this issue, and I appreciate what you've already provided, because I really don't want to give up these additional angles.

Buzzit (2): Ilive's Reader is indeed the reader Lowkee referred to.

DaveN: The horizontal span of the tangent pole is 22.4536 m. (73 2/3 ft.) and the horizontal spans of some of the angle poles are even wider.  Yes, this does cause the span to take up more than one tile.  However, the actual footprint in game is based on the dimensions of the base rather than the upper structure.  In addition, these pylons IRL normally carry a right of way of 48.768 m. (160 ft.), which is approximately three tiles in game.

Buzzit (3): That's true, lol.    I remember saying once that my pylons looked small compared to yours.



I don't yet have anything new to share, because I'm just getting back to work on this project.  However, I'm interested in getting this anti-aliasing issue resolved.  I notice that the wires for some angles look like dotted lines.

[metarvo]

First of all, I'd like to thank Noah for inspiring me to look at power plants on Google Maps.  I feel that this has inspired me to get back to work on this project.    Hopefully, the BATting process won't throw me as many snags as it has.

I've been experimenting with ways to make the fractional angle wires show up better, since I feel the BAT tool itself doesn't do them justice when rendering them.  Since the orthogonal and diagonal wires showed up fine, however, I got the idea to use Cogeo's Model Tweaker to rotate ortho wires of the correct length 18.435°.  Here is the result in various zooms and angles:



To make the effect believable, I had to separate the lower wires from the upper wires in each circuit before rotating them.  The static wires at the top are separate from the circuits as well.  It's still not perfect, but I feel the result is a little better than that of the FA3 wires rendered in the BAT tool.  I did notice that this method erased any shadows for zooms further than 5, so I merged each group of wires with a corresponding transparent group of wires rendered in BAT.  This provided shadows without the dreaded dotted-line effect that FA3 wires rendered in BAT can produce.  If this is a suitable means of creating such angles, it will be good news, especially with the additional fractional angles that the NAM is bringing to the forefront.

[noahclem]

Looks beautiful man    Really clever implementation of the FA as well. Near as I can see it turned out perfectly. I didn't realize you could use model tweaker to rotate stuff (I'm pretty new to it) but I guess I learn something new everyday    And I'm very glad I helped push you to get back into this project--I'm a big fan of your work!

I actually have a power line idea I thought I'd run by you: have you considered doing a version of your powerlines in the same way Girafe did his ski lifts and gondolas, where the wires don't overhang the lot but are the same size of the lot? It would allow the wires work in hilly areas, though they'd follow every wrinkle in the terrain and not always look good. Full disclosure, my suggestion may be motivated by me wanting a nice way to get power down from my current dam project 

Looking forward to what's next 

[MandelSoft]

@Noah: I do have a powerline set with optional wire-less pylons for hilly areas

Anyway, it's nice to see some more development again, Metravo

[Aaron Graham]

Looks great, and I'm happy your back man.

[Swordmaster]

Very good! For Noah's idea, I figure leveling terrain with a network tool first would allow the power lines to follow that same slope. Kind of like a slope mod for power lines


Cheers
Willy

[metarvo]

Noah (Noahclem): Thank you for the compliment!    I believe you've got me addicted to Google Maps again.    Model Tweaker's a tool that I'm just now starting to use, but it's becoming a favorite already.

Maarten (MandelSoft): Thanks for the kind words!    Wireless pylons are quite useful, too, and they will be a part of this set, if only as fillers for those situations in which the wires of two separate poles meet.

Aaron Graham: Thanks for the compliment!    It's always refreshing to get back to work on this project.

Willy (Swordmaster): I appreciate the kind words.    This only reinforces the concept of power lines as a lesser-known transit network. 



I don't have any progress to show at the moment, but I've been doing a little research.  I searched Girafe's BAT thread, and I saw some nice pictures of the slope conforming ski lifts, but I failed to find any details about the method used to make them do that.  As far as the wires overhanging the lot go, I built them that way so that the lines could cross roads, farm fields, rivers, etc.  I also made the wires overhang so that a lot wouldn't have to be built on every tile of the line.  I gather from your post that the power line lots would have to be built on every tile using this method.

Now, I suppose I could include some lots using this method to supplement the non-slope conforming overhanging lots.  If implemented, these would replace the BATted sloped wires that I had previously considered including.  I'm guessing I would have to forgo drooping wires for the slope-conforming lots as well, although that wouldn't be that big of a deal on a slope.  I'm willing to give it a try if I can just figure out how to do it.

[metarvo]

Sometimes, this can be an uphill BATtle...



The method I'm using for slope friendliness involves short-span wire props.  This has a few drawbacks, though.  First of all, it requires a fairly high number of props on each lot.  I'm experimenting to see how few I can get away with using while still having a convincing slope effect.  Second, it requires lots to be placed along the entire length of the sloped line.  This takes up space, which normally wouldn't be an issue under power lines or on hills, but it might be if there was a need for a road to run under the line.  I got around this problem by creating an additional overhanging lot with slope-friendly wires running along the lot's length and a non-slope-friendly overhang on one edge.  Finally, the slope-friendly wires don't droop, but I figure this won't be that big of a deal on slopes.

[j-dub]

Sometimes?

And this is the reason why very few people step up to the plate with this. It's too bad the same connection requirement that puzzle pieces use couldn't be forced to required these to connect the wire consistently at often uneven slope shifting levels.

[Lewis2567]

This could be a great idea. Slope-Friendly Wires would be very nice. But it might not work the way I think it will. Not a moder, (want to be though) but looks like it could be hard to do. Dose this method that you are doing require a lot coding when you were make the props?

[gn_leugim]

nice work.

there is a third drawback you did not mention, as they are slope frendly, the wires will have the slope of the hill, no matter how the hill is sloped. if you have a section of terrain that is wavy, forming ripples ( like the w) for example, the wires will have that shape too. and that is not realistic.

[metarvo]

j-dub:  Thanks for the compliment.    This is one reason why I want slopes to be a part of my set; not many have done it.

Lewis2567:  Thanks for the kind words.    This method requires the use of several short-span wire segments (0.5m for ortho, 0.7m for diagonal, and 1.6m for FA3) placed in a line across the lot.  If the lot is placed on a properly terraformed slope, the wires will appear to follow that slope.  Note that I didn't use the "Orient to Slope" option in the Reader; it causes gaps to be left in the wires.

gn_leugim: Thank you for the compliment.    This means that the lines will have to be run along the right kind of slopes, such as those molded with slope mods like Willy suggested.  Since the slope-friendly wire spans are mostly broken into 1x1 lots, one can exercise more control over where the pylons go.  Precisely placed poles (e.g. on hilltops or in valleys) should minimize the wavy effect.  It's not a perfect solution, but it's the only one I can think of at the moment.





Here are the diagonal and fractional angle 3 (FA3) slope-friendly wires.  I notice that the different method of wire creation causes the slope-friendly wires to become too bright and take on a slight red tint, so I'm considering creating a separate wire texture to be used exclusively on slope-friendly wires.  The shadows are acting weird on the slopes, but that may be unavoidable.

[Buzzit]

Well this is really interesting.
if you create mountains with a clean slope i bet it would look pretty good!
Any further progress with this method?

[metarvo]

I haven't had time to do much on this lately, but I'm planning on going back in there and seeing where I'm at with this project.  I should be picking it up again soon. 

[Swordmaster]

You better do that. We're all sitting here with our arms crossed, waiting.


Building some pressure . . .


Cheers
Willy

[noahclem]

Great to see those slope-conforming powerlines    Guess I was on vacation when you posted before. Good to hear you plan on working on this again soon 

[gn_leugim]

You better do that. We're all sitting here with our arms crossed, waiting.


Building some pressure . . .


Cheers
Willy

Yes... Waiting... 

is this enough pressure?