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Author Topic: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support  (Read 2782114 times)

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Offline Haljackey

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Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12960 on: December 11, 2018, 07:17:25 PM »
That elevated highway offramp with the additional lane looks amazing (same with everything else).

It really reminds me of this ramp that was built in downtown Toronto in 2017 & early 2018. I watched it slowly get built over the year.

(Via https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/toronto-lower-simcoe-ramp-and-new-park-m-s-city-of-toronto.21786/page-67)

Location in Google Maps, although the old exit still there:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6402505,-79.382673,318m/data=!3m1!1e3


I am eager to build some of my own in game!  :thumbsup:

Offline Kitsune

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12961 on: December 11, 2018, 08:15:57 PM »
Yeah - it makes me wonder if OWR-3 will be able to shot out the other end instead of a ramp.

Offline mattb325

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Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12962 on: December 11, 2018, 11:46:36 PM »
These new setups both look awesome  :thumbsup:

Offline Tarkus

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Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12963 on: December 13, 2018, 11:00:59 PM »
Thanks, Tyberius, Alan_Waters, Akallan, dyoungyn, Haljackey, Kitsune, Matt, and everyone for the kind words and feedback! :thumbsup:

BTW, on another note, has the issue with Flex L2 cliff extender (proper name slips my mind) been fixed;  L1 works GREAT each and every time.  L2 seems to be quirky and have never been able to make it work.

Are you referring to the On-Slopes by chance?  L2 support in general isn't as solid as L1 support.  There are some proposed changes to the On-Slope implementation as part of the P57-Mark IV effort--getting rid of the auto-RHW-2 on the elevated end--which seems to have stabilized things for the override networks (at the expense of the RHW-2), and may end up helping. 

I am still figuring out just what to do with the P57-Mark IV code, however, due to the fact that its technical demands (in its present form) preclude it from reliably running on a pre-2011 computer, and it would be preferable to not have to continue supporting the Mark III code after that. 

The QCX project does, interestingly enough, raise the possibility of an "RHW Lite" existing as well.

Yeah - it makes me wonder if OWR-3 will be able to shot out the other end instead of a ramp.

The pathing isn't particularly clean right now (2-lane entrance ramp vs. 3-lane network), but texturally, it looks rather smooth.  Did this as an ad hoc with some clever disconnector use on two QCXs:



With some additional overrides, that looks to be something that could be supported.

In other news, C-type support is now in place.  I've also shortened the transition on the ramp turn lanes (and somehow made them cleaner in the process), and extended the actual turn lane portion, as had been requested by Squizie3 back in February.



There's also another new feature in the above image . . . and not the signals (which aren't new--they were temporarily taken off while troubleshooting the previous QCX issues, and just re-added tonight).

-Alex

Offline Haljackey

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Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12964 on: December 16, 2018, 12:23:56 AM »
One thing I've really started to take for granted (and I shouldn't!) with the RHW is just how modular it has really become. We went from fixed puzzle pieces with the Maxis Highways to the ability to make things to our own scale.

For example, take something as simple as a loop ramp.

We can make them pretty tight...


Or more realistic...


...And even crazy wide


It just baffles my mind. Even modern games like Cities Skylines are more painful to make such perfectly aligned scales. You either have to drag everything absolutely perfectly, or painstakingly mod and/or install one asset with a pre-fabricated piece you have to again perfectly align with your highway.

Even though we all like to break the grid system, it is fundamental for easy symmetry and a relatively low learning curve.

Mind. Blown.

Offline dyoungyn

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12965 on: December 17, 2018, 08:57:46 AM »
May we ask u to show the pathing for this one.  Love the style, compactness, and overall the ability to AVE6/7.  Great job &hlp

"In other news, C-type support is now in place.  I've also shortened the transition on the ramp turn lanes (and somehow made them cleaner in the process), and extended the actual turn lane portion, as had been requested by Squizie3 back in February."


Offline Tarkus

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Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12966 on: December 19, 2018, 03:08:08 AM »
Thanks for the very kind words, Haljackey!  My real hope with the RHW's modular component approach is that it would "liberate" highways, allowing greater freedom and creativity in transportation networks--seeing what you've done with it, with all the amazing user creations that have dotted the SC4 community since the MIS came into being . . . almost 11 years ago . . . continues to amaze me.  Thank you to all who have found this project to be a useful part of your game! :thumbsup:

I also agree with you on the grid . . . I gave Cities: Skylines a try, and something felt really off with the whole interface for building networks.  It really became painfully obvious when I tried to build a grid layout for my downtown area--then loaded up SC4 and built a massive such layout in mere seconds.  And I haven't touched C:S again since--that was 3 years ago.  The freedom of being able to have more than 45 increments is a nice thing, and there are definitely some more things we can do to improve the ability to orient against the grid in new ways (i.e. more Fractional Angle content, and improved implementation there).  But my experience really suggests to me that the anchoring mechanism that an underlying grid provides really improves in-game QoL. 

May we ask u to show the pathing for this one.  Love the style, compactness, and overall the ability to AVE6/7.  Great job &hlp

"In other news, C-type support is now in place.  I've also shortened the transition on the ramp turn lanes (and somehow made them cleaner in the process), and extended the actual turn lane portion, as had been requested by Squizie3 back in February."



Thanks for the compliments on the interchange, dyoungyn!  I'm still doing a bit of work on the pathing for that particular setup (big thing was to get the RULs working first), so I can't quite show it yet.  There are also some interesting bells-and-whistles underpinning the whole thing, too, that will be more apparent later on.

In other news, in light of a report from Metacity over at ST, I've fixed up the L0 MIS R2 Curve's ability to overlap on the orth end and create smooth larger angles--there had been a missing model and paths.  The patch attached below solves the issue--the Plugins\z___NAM folder is probably the best spot for it.

-Alex

Offline dyoungyn

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12967 on: December 19, 2018, 09:16:58 AM »
I whole heartily agree that the grid system is SC4 is something rather "in the way" sometimes to be break the barrier.  I to tried CS and love the detail and amazing flexibility, but SC4 has really come a LONG WAY since inception and we have invested too much time creating great cities; it is hard to hang up the hat.  Not to mention, one can build to it's hearts content in SC4 and really expand, while CS is limited.  Still love the creations is CS but SC4 has really really impacted my heart.


Offline dyoungyn

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12968 on: December 19, 2018, 10:43:54 AM »
Sorry, been thinking about this thought for a while. 

Is it possible to modify the L1/2 Flex Curves to allow other networks underneath like the rest of RHW? 

Currently, the only network able to run underneath Flex Curves is RHW. 

Would like to have other NAM networks, RD; ST; AVE; and OWR be dragged underneath.

Offline eggman121

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Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12969 on: December 19, 2018, 12:26:53 PM »
Is it possible to modify the L1/2 Flex Curves to allow other networks underneath like the rest of RHW? 

Currently, the only network able to run underneath Flex Curves is RHW. 

Unfortunately it is not possible. This is because it already uses falsies for dirtroad: (aka RHW) and the Ground highway network.

To mix a variety of networks under the flexfly would entail alot of work. As such it is not on the radar.

-eggman121

Offline Tarkus

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Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12970 on: December 20, 2018, 03:54:55 AM »
Since the huge ramp expansion 3 years ago, of the 34 networks presently in the RHW, 32 of them have ramp interface capability.  The two that didn't?  The L1 and L2 RHW-3.

That's now about to change.



-Alex

Offline Seaman

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12971 on: December 20, 2018, 03:25:27 PM »
ohhh... it's happening.  :)

It must be satisfying to close the gap on the RHW-Chart ;)

I really feel happy for the RHW-3, since it always seemed to be a little bit neglected. What's actually a shame since at least I frequently wish to use it more often in complex RHW interchange setups if it weren't for the lack of ramps.

I do understand that you're working on the elevated A-ramps. But if you're ever coming to the D ramps for the RHW-3, be assured that I'll be over the moon about that.  ;D

Offline Wiimeiser

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12972 on: December 20, 2018, 05:40:50 PM »
About time, I guess. Still wanting that split into RHW-4 and MIS...
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Offline Tarkus

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Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12973 on: December 21, 2018, 10:07:57 PM »
Thanks, Seaman, Wiimeiser, and everyone!  There may indeed be some more ramps on that end at some point in the near future.  The implementation side of things is the big thing to work out with things like the D1.  Being that we're going for FLEXRamps/DRIs, and considering the fact that the base D1 FLEXRamp is RHW-4-based, and the RHW-2 version exists as a separate DRI (currently with no FLEXRamp equivalent), it brings up a few scenarios:

  • The D1 FLEXRamp moves to an RHW-3 basis (but with no auto-RHW-3 override out the top, to mitigate the need for "overrides of overrides"), with the RHW-2 and RHW-4+ variants becoming overrides of it.
  • The existing D1 FLEXRamp stays the way it is (RHW-4-based), and the RHW-2 version is changed to an RHW-3-based version (again, with no auto-RHW-3 override out the top) and given a FLEXRamp piece, with the RHW-2 version being an override (initiated by MIS through the bottom end).
  • The existing D1 FLEXRamp stays the way it is (RHW-4-based), and the RHW-2 and RHW-3 versions get their own dedicated FLEXRamp pieces (the only overrides of which would be to produce L1 and L2 variants).

And since dyoungyn asked about pathing on that one QCX . . . it's now done.



-Alex

Offline Wiimeiser

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12974 on: December 21, 2018, 11:30:36 PM »
Not sure which of those options is best. #1 seems to be, but it might impact existing networks ingame (then again, maybe it won't).

Also, is there a download for all the RHW textures including puzzle pieces? I'd like to try splicing some pieces together...
Pink horse, pink horse, she rides across the nation...

Offline dyoungyn

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12975 on: December 22, 2018, 12:20:14 AM »
Look at that!!!!  Pathing that once seemed once again improbable is now a reality with cross ramps with stop lines and traffic lights.  FINALLY for simple ramps in AVE6/7 should make a lot of interchanges of this type much more simplified.

Sorry to nit-pick this, but there appears to be one hell of a "bottle neck" entering the freeway.   Is it possible for the RHW8S QCX be modified to be entering the highway at RHW10S for smooth entrances?

Thank you soo much for showing us all what can be done with hard dedicated work and patience.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 12:26:31 AM by dyoungyn »

Offline Tyberius06

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12976 on: December 22, 2018, 06:45:55 AM »
Oooohhhh.... I'm speechless. It's a real beauty! :)

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Offline Seaman

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12977 on: December 22, 2018, 08:58:55 AM »
Sorry to nit-pick this, but there appears to be one hell of a "bottle neck" entering the freeway.   Is it possible for the RHW8S QCX be modified to be entering the highway at RHW10S for smooth entrances?

That might be an interesting additional feature, but I like it already the way it is since most of the interchanges in my area show Tarkus' pattern.

---

@Tarkus, about the options:

I really tried to think about it and it's a pitty, that I am not cappable of considering all RUL2 implications.
From my (player's) point of view, my initial thought was to keep it simple and have only one FLEXRamp for all D1-ramps (option 1 and 2?).
On the other hand, the RHW-4 D1 ramp is maybe the ramp I use the most (sometimes I use the DRI pattern as a lazyman's starter for MIS and RHW-4), so I would like the D1 FLEXRamp to stay the way it is (RHW-4-based). Additionally, the RHW-3 D1 ramp may remain a special case since it would be the only ramp with contraflow traffic on the same tile.
Considering all this I might tend to option 3.
Also, if this option is the one which would enable a auto RHW-3 override out of the top: I think this auto override as a bypass to need extra starters is the feature I like the most, regarding the FLEX technology. So I would try to have it on the RHW-3 D1...

Not sure wether my thoughts are meaningful, but I hope they help you when you are about to consider the options.

Offline druidlove

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12978 on: December 22, 2018, 08:15:53 PM »
That looks sweet Tarkus. As to dyoungyn's concerns, the bottle neck is common on the offroad to the highway. I-25 south of I-225 in south Denver uses this all the time. imagine 4 or 5 ramps like this back to back... or I could send you this area to look at.

As to the option of the ramp, I think I like option 2 as the better option, as I would hate to override for every RHW4 (my more common option)

Offline dyoungyn

Re: RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support
« Reply #12979 on: December 22, 2018, 08:35:52 PM »
I agree all over particularly in the USA, this kind of setup with two lanes merging into one when approaching the highway is common.  However, in all the cases provided, all have a MUCH LONGER ramp leading to the highway which allows drivers to safely merge over in time to merge onto the highway.  The QCX setup has much shorter ramps at which traffic will bleed onto the intersection hence creating congestion. 

My proposal of taking three lanes and adding two more for the ramp will allow drivers whom are numerous for this condensed version of an interchange.  One can then add a merger going back down to four. 

Regardless of any changes made this QCX is so sweet and a dream for elevated ramps for mid/downtown interchanges for AVE6/7 and so thankful for the consideration; again, great job Alex.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 08:45:23 PM by dyoungyn »