Civil engineering support thread: slope mods, other tools and issues

[HandsOn]

Understood; now is the question if - for the sake of trying this out - some non-puzzle pieces could be made that folks could download until the NAM get's updated.. 

[Ennedi]

Making a draggable road that levels land, without having to put things in and out of plugins folder is not possible.

It is true of course, if we would modify road (or other network) parameters to use it to levelling terain, we would be able only to build completely flat roads  . We should put the plugin with modified parameters into Plugins folder, open the city, make what we need, save, exit and remove the plugin.
But making such plugin is possible and there is only a question if anybody would want to play with removable plugins (something like NoMaxis mod, sometimes we use it and sometimes not).
There are more possible plugins of this kind, because some needed features are contradictory. For example, we must modify the same property to avoid the "digging effect" and to make building brideges easier, but we need various values in both cases. We can't achieve both goals in the same time. But I suppose I will make a set of such removable tools, although I don't know if somebody will be interested in it. Personally I think it can be worth of some work.

As for your puzzle pieces idea - of course, please show pictures! 

[HandsOn]

Since this "moving stuff in & out of the plugins folder" falls at least partially into the realm of the SC4 Organizer (and a planned addendum to it), I am wondering about something:
SC4 loads plugins exactly when? During the initial startup, for example: does it load ALL plugins in order AND keep them open? Or does it load only what it needs when you actually click the menu item? And what would happen if at first it found a given plugin, but that plugin would be moved WHILE the game is running? Or, conversly, what would happen if a plugin was ADDED whhile the game was running?

This may sound like an insane question - but, please, bear with me for a moment..

[CasperVg]

I never tried, but wouldn't the OS give an error message "Not Authenticated", when you would try to move a plugin out of the folder while the game is running?

[Jonathan]

I know if you try and modify a plugin when the game is running windows doesn't let you, which happens to me very often and get annoying

Another idea you could have two plugins folders, one with the slope modd that makes roads flat and one without, then you just have two SC4 icons one that loads the plugins folder with the slope modd and the other loads the one with out the slope modd. (you have a different plugins folder for different shortcuts using the info here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3683.0 )

There's not much to show for the puzzle piece thing atm, once I have added a preview to the puzzle piece (probably the longest thing to do with them) I'll upload some picture that should make it easier to see/understand.

[HandsOn]

The reason I asked is because I am planning to build a "File Watcher" that checks periodically on the region folder to see if you have recently saved a city. If so, it will try and duplicate that file as a date-stamped backup. Since it runs with admin permissions of the system, it bypasses the usual warnings and ought to (still have to test this) work even though the city is open (SC4 closes the file after a safe operation). Since this mini-app is TSR, it could have switch that allows moving of perloaded plugins - if those files are closed. Which is why I asked if what SC4 does, and when.

[Jonathan]

For example if I place the puzzle piece like this:


then the result is like this:


And of course it can be used in the conventional way as well.

HandsOn: btw, you can copy files while SC4 is using them.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, I'm sorry if I am.

[HandsOn]

This is brilliant stuff! It would solve a number of tasks and make them soooo much easier..

[superhands]

mmmm....  i can feel a beta of some sorts down the track. what a nice develeopment on this idea.

[Ennedi]

@Warrior: Don't worry, every good idea is warm welcomed here! I have nothing against promotion of your (and everybody else) creations, if only they will be really useful and connected with SC4 civil works 

But of course it would be good to look at the beta version...
(I'm going to prepare some slope mod-conneced stuff, but I will need a few days, I'm horribly busy all the week except weekend)

Adam

[JoeST]

Jonathan , fantastic stuff there, thats a novel idea

and I believe the plugins are all loaded at the start of the game, and then referenced like a database when you plop things

Joe

[Jonathan]

After a bit more testing, I found that if you raise a tile 15m and then use the puzzle piece to level the tiles next to it, it only raises the land 14.9 (ish) and lowers the 15m tile very slightly(the same when you lower a tile 15m, except the opposite) , but it works like it should do when placed like in the picture I showed above.  It maybe possible to make another set of raisers/lower that compensate for this(so a 15m raiser would actually raise it 15.x m), but I have no idea who you work out what the "x" would be.

I imagine that the use for the puzzle pieces above is still quite useful, for making ports and stuff?

[RippleJet]

I imagine that the use for the puzzle pieces above is still quite useful, for making ports and stuff?

Jonathan, they will be indispensable when making seaports!
This is a very brilliant idea! Now, when's the next update for NAM?...

[JoeST]

Tage: It will be ready when its ready

Joe

[HandsOn]

After a bit more testing, I found that if you raise a tile 15m and then use the puzzle piece to level the tiles next to it, it only raises the land 14.9 (ish) and lowers the 15m tile very slightly(the same when you lower a tile 15m, except the opposite) , but it works like it should do when placed like in the picture I showed above.  It maybe possible to make another set of raisers/lower that compensate for this(so a 15m raiser would actually raise it 15.x m), but I have no idea who you work out what the "x" would be.

I imagine that the use for the puzzle pieces above is still quite useful, for making ports and stuff?

This happens not just with the raisers/diggers but with the levelling tools as well - the game seems to "randomly" react to most forms of plopping. And I do think that which ever slope modes are installed at the time will influence the amount of X as will the DJM

[Jonathan]

I'll try removing the NHP slope mod, and see if the lowering is still the same, and what is a DJM?

I don't really have any idea about seaports and rarely use them in game (although I do play the game rarely, spending most time here and modding) so I'm not sure what shapes and lengths, would be good. Any suggestions would be great. I'm glad I can help, I'm surprised noone had done this before.

[CasperVg]

A DJ(E)M is a Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod. At the moment, the only one in existence is this one by pjot.
As for sizes, I think 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 1x4, 1x2, 1x3, 1x4, 1x6, 1x12 and 6x6 would be appropriate.

[HandsOn]

I'll try removing the NHP slope mod, and see if the lowering is still the same, and what is a DJM?

I don't really have any idea about seaports and rarely use them in game (although I do play the game rarely, spending most time here and modding) so I'm not sure what shapes and lengths, would be good. Any suggestions would be great. I'm glad I can help, I'm surprised noone had done this before.

Sorry, that ought to read DJEM - Diagonal Jagged Edges Mod.

[Jonathan]

Right, thanks.

I think I should probably make a new thread somewhere, although I don't know where. #
And the pieces don't have to rectangular.

[HandsOn]

Right, thanks.

I think I should probably make a new thread somewhere, although I don't know where. #
And the pieces don't have to rectangular.

Sinmply start a new topic under whichever category you think is most suitable.

As for the size: Methinks single width is probably more useful; may 1, 3, and 4 long, so you can combine. Double-width is only necessary if - like with exsiting diggers, the TE ability prevents you from placing lots next to each other.