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Author Topic: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout  (Read 5244 times)

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Offline Jimmyson

NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« on: March 23, 2016, 08:04:37 AM »
I've been thinking on this idea for a while now. I've lived in town that often have roundabouts in housing estates, with street-based road. No major roads in sight, and giving rough estimations, I believed that a roundabout's diameter in these environments is not too larger that the span of a street.

So it got me thinking about the percent of a tile used by a street texture in the game. Measuring pixels to the full size, the game allocates 64px for the street from a 128px texture object. About 50% for the image, thus 32px for each direction, or 25%.

The diagonal space of a 128x128 is roughly 180px, enough to serve both directions of travel, and the hole on the middle. I was also worried about allocation for footpaths of pedestrians could easily move from one tile to the next. Again, looking at the texture, 16px on each side is allocated for Pedestrian movement, and can be easily accomodated in a 116px space, with 64px already used for the allocation of the road. So I mocked up an idea of what a junction may look like.



The yellow box indicates a full tile.
Pedesttrian crossing are moved to outside the intersecting tile, and it has traffic islands to seperate and merge traffic, and will need building to, as these are (in a way) transition pieces to the OWR/4-way street intersection.

With the progression of the NWM, and their use of OWR to print turning lanes, I wondered if there could still be enough allocation of IIDs to support the use of OWR on a street intersection to put this concept into practise.
It may be possible to consider building round about T-junction streets, only if the center island area is reduced.

What are everyone's thoughts?

Offline _Michael

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Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 11:21:29 AM »
This sounds like a great idea. I know these are very realistic; 'mini'-roundabouts are every where in the UK! This would be something much better than American style 4-way stop intersections!

Offline eggman121

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Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 06:24:19 PM »
I could lend a had here for Mini Roundabouts.  ;)

I have experience with them in my home town of Kyneton (Victoria Australia) And i am sure I could find a solution to make them work.

You could probably use the OWR tool to activate the Roundabouts on the Street Network just like you activate the Auto Turn Lanes for the Road network.

Since it is only a couple of tiles I think It would be quite reasonable to get them coded quite quickly.

Food for thought for myself I think.

-eggman121

Offline Jimmyson

Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 08:59:54 PM »
We seem to be thinking on the same wavelength here. From the looks of things, only 2 tiles would need to be built.
There could be ideas for wealth zoning and possibly T21s to fill the center if people want to get creative.

Offline compdude787

Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2016, 01:06:03 PM »
That does sound like a good idea. In Seattle where I lived for many years, there were lots of street intersections with traffic circles where it was just a raised island with plants on it that was stuck inside a 4-way intersection.
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Offline Mero90

Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 01:47:02 PM »
Yea, I really like that!  :thumbsup: Is it possible to make them appear placing the one-way road tool over a street cossing, like road turning lanes plugin does?

Offline gn_leugim

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Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2016, 06:29:26 PM »
and why stick with streets only? why not on roads too?  :thumbsup:

Mero90, lovely Syndra btw :D

Offline LucarioBoricua

Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2020, 02:56:15 AM »
I'm trying to figure out which drag pattern could be used for a street mini roundabout. Best I can come up with is doing an L-shaped road stub where streets would cross, much like the traffic signals for one-way roads.

Offline Durfsurn

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Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2020, 03:30:23 AM »
You guys might be interested in this little video ;)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/nZ55t_80Mnk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/nZ55t_80Mnk</a>

- Billy

Offline Wiimeiser

Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2020, 05:44:47 AM »
Cool! I wonder if RHW will be supported, I'm only expecting it for RHW-2 and MIS, but for roundabouts that small that's more than enough for logical reasons.
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Offline Durfsurn

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Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2020, 06:06:42 AM »
Not at this stage, though possibly in the future - RHW-2 can easily be transitioned to Road one tile beforehand however.

- Billy

Offline Tyberius06

Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2020, 06:45:34 AM »
These small roundabouts (at least in the UK) have only real purpose: slowing down the traffic. In  RL most of the drivers make short cut on them anyway or just driving through on them without following the blend. The middle piece often just a roadmark on a circle speedbump.
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Offline mgb204

Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2020, 09:49:14 AM »
These small roundabouts (at least in the UK) have only real purpose: slowing down the traffic. In  RL most of the drivers make short cut on them anyway or just driving through on them without following the blend. The middle piece often just a roadmark on a circle speedbump.

You do know that they are intended by design to be "short cut", by driving over the middle where desired/safe to do so? Some of the newer ones were built such that doing this would be bad for your car, but originally they were little more than a tiny bump.

I wouldn't say they slow down traffic either, compared to a T or 4-way junction, you always give way to traffic on the roundabout. This means when located where the traffic conditions are right, they are a boon to traffic flow. Especially when traffic is light, you barely need to slow down, regardless of your entry/exit point, which is much more efficient than give-way or stop signs.

Offline Tyberius06

Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2020, 03:13:05 PM »
These small roundabouts (at least in the UK) have only real purpose: slowing down the traffic. In  RL most of the drivers make short cut on them anyway or just driving through on them without following the blend. The middle piece often just a roadmark on a circle speedbump.

You do know that they are intended by design to be "short cut", by driving over the middle where desired/safe to do so? Some of the newer ones were built such that doing this would be bad for your car, but originally they were little more than a tiny bump.

I wouldn't say they slow down traffic either, compared to a T or 4-way junction, you always give way to traffic on the roundabout. This means when located where the traffic conditions are right, they are a boon to traffic flow. Especially when traffic is light, you barely need to slow down, regardless of your entry/exit point, which is much more efficient than give-way or stop signs.

Well, first, I did not know about the designed "short cut". Thanks for that information. It's interesting.
In Hungary traffic authoritise were experimenting with this type of roundabout, and the first results were total catastrophic. People got used to the proper one, and they couldn't handle these tiny ones. Well that's their problem indeed.
However where I live in UK, it does slow down the traffic in a way, because most of the people don't use it as a roundabout. I mean rule wise. Also there are some strange driver behaviour here, which I can not understand, and make no sense to me, because it is totally the opposite how I was taught back in Hungary.
According to the general hungarian driving rules, there are 2 significant rule which the drivers always need to pay attention on (besides signs and traffic lights).
1. Right Hand Rule (Note: Hungary is RHD - like most of the European countries), which means if same hierarchy roads/streets intersecting each other (same hiearchy means, that non of the intersecting roads/streets have Give Away or Stop signs - yepp, mostly at the suburban areas almost all of the streets has the same hierarchy), always the driver who coming from your right hand side has the right to move first. The funny thing is, that in UK there is a Right Hand Rule as well, although they are driving on the other side of the road ???()what() ()what() ()what()
2. Turning Rule: what if you have a + crossing and 4 cars from 4 different direction arrive at the very same time to the crossing. By default everybody should let the other go, so nobody would move. The turning rule allows the drivers to move first who wouldn't change lanes/directions, just moving straight ahead. After this is decided, again the Right Hand Rule applies, who can move first. Also there is a difference if you turning in a wide angle (in RHD set-up wide-LEFT)  or a narrow angle (short-Right). The narrow/short angle turning has the right to turn firts. And if everybody were just about to drive straight ahead, then one starts winging, and let the other go, and once one car is out of the equation, the Right Hand Rule and the Turning Rule would decided the order from there.

Back to this single tile roundabout and the UK situation. So whenever I approach a roundabout like this (LHD set-up) and want to turn right (this would be a wide-RIGHT, the exact opposite to the RHD wide-LEFT, what I mentioned above in the Turning Rule) the other car from the opposite direction, who would go straight ahead or would turn down left (short/narrow-LEFT, the exact opposite as the RHD short-RIGHT) stops and would let me turn first even if that driver arrived to the roundabout first...  ()what() ()what() ()what()
Which is totally the opposite, how I was taught. In Hungary this would work like, we arrive at the same time, the other driver goes straight ahead, then I following it and turning down IF nobody comes on my Right... (So UK has a Right Hand Rule, also since cars are coming from the right in a roundabout, and the general international rules would allow cars move first who are in the roundabout already, it's ok. In Hungary and most of the RHD contries, have the Right Hand Rule, but in roundabout, there is a Left Hand Rule, since cars are coming from the LEFT in a roundabout.).
It would be simple and fast. Instead the other driver stops and would let me turn down (NOTE: where I have this issue are generally T-crossings with this type of roundabout.)
But I need to slow down anyway, because I can not be sure, if somebody comes on my right... So everybody stops and think about where the fishes... Which kills the purpose of any roundabout.
Since I'm a delivery driver, at least 15-20 times I have to face with this situation and it still doesn't make any sense, why the driver who would move straight ahead stops and wait for me to turn down in front of them, while by default they don't need to give away to anybody...

So that's why I said, that it slows the traffic down, also because of the "teachers" on the speed-awarness course said to me... :)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 03:18:23 PM by Tyberius06 »
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Offline AsimPika3172

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Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2020, 10:19:18 PM »
Nice smaller roundabouts!  &apls I will waiting!  :thumbsup: :bnn:
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Offline Jimmyson

Re: NAM Request/Idea: One-Tile Roundabout
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2020, 08:53:33 PM »
You guys might be interested in this little video ;)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/nZ55t_80Mnk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/nZ55t_80Mnk</a>

- Billy

Woah! I had kinda forgotten about this! Looks amazing!
My initial design was hoping for a slightly larger version, as the roundabout near me at the time was roughly a 10m diameter roundabout.

The idea was to place a One-Way road over the junction (SC4 currently prevents that type of override). It would turn the junction into a full roundabout, and the ajoining road tiles would split into a fork, one being a entry, another an exit, with a "traffic island" in the middle, ideal for pedestrian crossings, as the roundabout would not have space for such thing, only connect pedestrians to the neighboring entry tile.
More of a use for suburban residential areas.

These small roundabouts (at least in the UK) have only real purpose: slowing down the traffic. In  RL most of the drivers make short cut on them anyway or just driving through on them without following the blend. The middle piece often just a roadmark on a circle speedbump.

I had not been aware how small roundabouts in the UK were designed, so this design seems to fit it. Roundabouts are defiantly designed to slow down traffic. Because who appreciates some goon traveling down a residential road to 50 miles an hour.