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Author Topic: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue  (Read 80578 times)

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Offline vortext

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2013, 02:31:49 PM »
Just popping in to say this is a very exciting project!!  &apls

I'll be following this with great interest, keep it up!  :thumbsup:

Edit; this reminded me of Buddybud's elrail project. Would be neat if something similar is included into a future NAM too.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 05:34:02 PM by vortext »
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Offline Swordmaster

Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2013, 04:32:11 PM »
Looks great so far. Markus! I think I'm gonna have to tap into your knowledge of transit modelling sooner rather than later. I've run into a bit of a dead-end.


Cheers
Willy

Offline Bipin

Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2013, 05:15:36 PM »
I think if any time is right, now would be the time to adapt these new pieces to some sort of aesthetic apart from the Maxis one, which is largely outdated. As previously mentioned, I'd love to see something like Buddybud's. Either way, superb job so far!

Offline z

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2013, 03:33:18 AM »
You've really been doing your research, Markus!

Although it is one-way, I like to think of Chicago Van Buren Street as a RL example of El-Rail over Road-4.

Yes, as you've undoubtedly noticed, all the streets that form the Loop are one-way.  Aside from that, though, they are very much like an RD-4.

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I was uncertain as to whether the arrangement of the supports at Van Buren and Wells Street originated in the fact that it had been a three-way intersection in the past...

I didn't know that! :o   It took me a while to track down that third line, too (if you'll pardon the expression).

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This is not possible in the depicted situation because one of the networks is RD-4. The support would end up in the middle of the street - imagine the invisible intersections. ;) A single wide 45 degree pylon could work, though.

I think you misunderstood what I was proposing.  Here's a rough picture:

Yes, I did understand you correctly. However, there is no empty space for the support at the right because RD-4 is medianless.


Ah, now I see.  I hadn't thought of that as a four-way intersection at ground level.

But what happens when you have two RD-4's intersect under a curve like that?  It's hard to see how you would avoid sticking pylons in two of the roads, especially if you rule out the tangential support option.

Road textures aren't that bad, though.  If I can do them, how hard can they be? :D

Offline rooker1

Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2013, 04:51:08 AM »
Not sure why you don't just use three supports, one across each side walk line from the inside corner and the last 45 degress across the intersection. JUst use the corners, I think it would be easier in all situations.
Great work, I'm still very excited....

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Offline JoeST

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2013, 06:05:06 AM »
I think Robin has it on the head, the simplest will probably be the most useful in the long run. Maybe with the option of cosmetic pieces down the line?
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Offline Aaron Graham

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2013, 09:38:15 AM »
Looks great guys, I would love to see the New York and Chicago style of Ele rails, I'm not a fan of the Maxis defaults.
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Offline Bipin

Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2013, 02:02:33 PM »
Looks great guys, I would love to see the New York and Chicago style of Ele rails, I'm not a fan of the Maxis defaults.

I agree to this. As I said earlier, now would probably be the best time to make a new standard. Perhaps a poll for which style is in order?

Offline vortext

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2013, 02:17:31 PM »
Perhaps a poll for which style is in order?

Well, maybe you could provide some examples first?!  ::) ;D
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Offline z

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2013, 02:25:13 PM »
There's also no reason that multiple styles can't be available, selectable in the installer.  Different people like different styles.

Offline memo

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2013, 05:47:09 PM »
Certainly, I would like to have alternate El-Rail styles, too, but it does not seem to be anything I can achieve now. If anyone wants to try to improve the appearance of the El-Rail network, I would love to provide assistance. I'd really like to encourage you to try your hand at it.

In my opinion, it is most important to obtain the basic functionality of these dual pieces, first. After that, it is "only" a matter of replacing the models to a more appealing look. Please keep in mind that the models had been completed first, thus, I'm not working on them anymore right now. ;)

As a side note, when Tram-in-Avenue and draggable GLR were introduced, the former GLR textures were replaced by ebina's current textures. I had made this decision primarily because it safed me a lot of texturing work as it is easier to edit ebina's textures. Though, not everyone was pleased with it.


Looks great so far. Markus! I think I'm gonna have to tap into your knowledge of transit modelling sooner rather than later. I've run into a bit of a dead-end.

I'd be happy to be of help. :)


But what happens when you have two RD-4's intersect under a curve like that?  It's hard to see how you would avoid sticking pylons in two of the roads, especially if you rule out the tangential support option.

That's a good question, but Robin answers it. ;)

Robin, that's how the current El-Rail-over-Road-2 corner piece looks, by the way.

Offline z

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2013, 07:35:15 PM »
Certainly, I would like to have alternate El-Rail styles, too, but it does not seem to be anything I can achieve now. If anyone wants to try to improve the appearance of the El-Rail network, I would love to provide assistance. I'd really like to encourage you to try your hand at it.

Buddybud's textures seem to be very popular, and it's my understanding that all they're missing is the intersections with the SAM networks.  If either Buddybud or someone else could be convinced to do these, that would seem to be the easiest thing to do (assuming we get Buddybud's permission to include these).

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But what happens when you have two RD-4's intersect under a curve like that?  It's hard to see how you would avoid sticking pylons in two of the roads, especially if you rule out the tangential support option.

That's a good question, but Robin answers it. ;)

Robin, that's how the current El-Rail-over-Road-2 corner piece looks, by the way.

I see what he's saying, and I can see why it works for the standard El Rail over Road corner.  But with the double-width roads, that 45 degree piece is quite a stretch; it doesn't look structurally sound to me, especially if it's replacing two other supports.  So that's why I'll stick with my original proposal.  It's only my opinion, of course... ;)

Offline memo

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2013, 09:25:58 AM »
RULs and paths are completed. Now, it's time for pylons.

This is how it could look like on a four way intersection. Admittedly, it does not look appealing &mmm, but I am not a BATter. It also matches the Maxis-style with that…


Offline io_bg

Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2013, 10:23:10 AM »
Looks good enough to me. Maybe it would be a tiny bit better if the supports at the intersection could be closer to the roads like the RD-4 which basically has its supports on the edge of the sidewalk?
Here's my suggestion for the RD-4 - AVE-4 X-ing which also appeared on this page:



The red lines are where the supports would be. Excuse my poor Paint skills :D I'm not an engineer but I think it would be stable and realistic that way.
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Offline Apple Delight

Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2013, 10:50:58 PM »
Quote
Quote
This is not possible in the depicted situation because one of the networks is RD-4. The support would end up in the middle of the street - imagine the invisible intersections. ;) A single wide 45 degree pylon could work, though.

I think you misunderstood what I was proposing.  Here's a rough picture:

Yes, I did understand you correctly. However, there is no empty space for the support at the right because RD-4 is medianless.


Ah, now I see.  I hadn't thought of that as a four-way intersection at ground level.

But what happens when you have two RD-4's intersect under a curve like that?  It's hard to see how you would avoid sticking pylons in two of the roads, especially if you rule out the tangential support option.

Road textures aren't that bad, though.  If I can do them, how hard can they be? :D

Regarding the problem of pylons in the road I was wondering, and it might be too late in development to do now, the Maxis avenue and the RD-4 use the same tulep pieces, so as long as the turning lane pieces were designed with enough room for the pylons the number of intersections that needed to be done would be the same as having only one el-rail over ave network (although finding space to put pylons on corners as above would be difficult as tuleps on the top and bottom wouldn't have enough room). I'll post an image when I have more time to better explain what I mean…

Offline memo

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #75 on: May 13, 2013, 08:54:45 AM »
Maybe it would be a tiny bit better if the supports at the intersection could be closer to the roads like the RD-4 which basically has its supports on the edge of the sidewalk?

I had moved them away from the roads a little so as to be able to join them in one support and to avoid placing them directly in front of the pedestrian crossings.

Quote


The red lines are where the supports would be. Excuse my poor Paint skills :D I'm not an engineer but I think it would be stable and realistic that way.

That is almost what I am heading for, now, except they will join in a single support as shown in picture (1) on the previous page.

Regarding the problem of pylons in the road I was wondering, and it might be too late in development to do now, the Maxis avenue and the RD-4 use the same tulep pieces, so as long as the turning lane pieces were designed with enough room for the pylons the number of intersections that needed to be done would be the same as having only one el-rail over ave network (although finding space to put pylons on corners as above would be difficult as tuleps on the top and bottom wouldn't have enough room). I'll post an image when I have more time to better explain what I mean…

Although TuLEPs are theoretically possible, they are not planned in the near-term. It's just an enormous amount of work. The fact that RD-4 and Ave-4 could share the same TuLEP pieces slightly increases the likeliness of their eventual implementation, though.

Offline metarvo

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2013, 09:56:44 AM »
It looks like both networks (ELR over AVE-4 and ELR over RD-4) are being done after all.  The more the merrier, right?  :)  These intersections are looking very good, Markus.

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Offline io_bg

Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2013, 11:48:43 AM »
That is almost what I am heading for, now, except they will join in a single support as shown in picture (1) on the previous page.
Sounds reasonable!
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Offline memo

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2013, 01:22:54 PM »
It looks like both networks (ELR over AVE-4 and ELR over RD-4) are being done after all.  The more the merrier, right?  :)

Right. It is less work to implement both at the same time than one first and the other at a later date. What is more, after some of the trouble I had, I would probably never have implemented the second network after the first one. $%Grinno$%




Again, I need your opinion on the supports. I just can't decide on the right placement.

(A)…


…or (B)?

Offline vortext

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Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2013, 01:26:40 PM »
A for me.
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