Menu

LEX File Exchange
EA Support Files
SC4 Wikipedia
Network Addon Mod
Dependencies
Chat

Author Topic: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk  (Read 151822 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline whatevermind

Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #260 on: January 24, 2013, 10:03:54 PM »
These all look amazing! I'd be happy to try beta testing the tree controllers if you're still looking for more people. The historical city development pictures are incredible. I've always wanted to really bring a region up from medieval/colonial times to modern, but I've never had the patience to actually pull together all the parts and make it happen. Great to see it can be done though, and done well!

As for the GLR, while the textures make beautiful sketches, I'm not as sold on the in-game shots.  I think they could use a little more pop and contrast so they aren't quite as washed out. At least relative to the terrain, they look a little too faint and too blue, particularly at the farther zooms.  On the other hand, they do have an ethereal beauty as they are. I'll also note I rarely use GLR, so I'm maybe not the best critic.  :P

Offline FrankU

  • It's Frank, the U is just for the suspense
  • BeNeLux Team
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 3348
  • Total likes: 225
  • Reputation: 14
  • Dutch Housing Project
  • CL:
    U Grow It
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #261 on: January 25, 2013, 02:21:57 AM »
Hi Vortex,

Quite impressive, if you allow me to use understatements.  ;)

Also my remark to the filling degrees: I did exactly the same with my farms set. I wanted my main buildigs to be prop families, so I first decided to make the lots with blank models. But like you I did not feel comfortable with these. I found out that there is no growth time for the lots: they just pop up, because growth time of a lot is dependent on the heigth of the model, and that is zero in this case. Also the bulldoze cost and buiding worth are not correct, if I remember this all right. It is some time ago already and I did not keep notes.

What I decided to do in the end is take some less important model like a small shed in the back of the lot and made this the building of the lot. You could even decide to use a tree. Now I compute the number of jobs of my lots the way Jim Myers taught me:
1. Take one job for each lot tile.
2. Make a list of all houses, sheds, silos, barns etc. on the lot.
3. Find out how many jobs all these would give if they were the building of the lot.
4. Add these numbers together. This is the number of jobs this lot represents.

The idea behind this: each tile of farm fields contains one job. Then every shed, house of barn reflects activity and jobs.
In order to be able to do this I made a lot of test lots with the most important sheds and barns I use on my lots. I gave them a proper filling degree, looked up what amount of jobs they gave and put this all into a list. I now use this list for adding the total number of jobs for a certain lot and then I search for the filling degree of the chosen building on that lot.

And all these numbers are just approaches. It's not necessary to have exact numbers. Two jobs more or less, five even: who cares?

Good luck.

Oh, let's not forget to give some feedback on the projects:
Tree controllers are beautiful. I especially like the addition of open field grasses and flowers.
Lots are fantastic, although the mixture of building styles is maybe a bit too diverse.
Textures: stone paths would be great to have. I think the textures look a bit blueish though and hte GLR in street should it not have the cobblestone between the tracks too?

Greetings,
Frank

Offline wouanagaine

  • NHP Team
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 2854
  • Total likes: 7
  • Reputation: 43
  • CL: :computer: SC4 CodeMaster
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #262 on: January 25, 2013, 03:39:53 AM »
Quote
Thing is I want to create 2x2 lots with multiple props on them, instead of one building per lot. So I've created desc files based on a small, invisible building which means to filling degree has to be ridiculously high in order to reflect the proper capacity (around 7500 for 250 folks). As far as I can tell, this is the correct way to do it but I'm still a bit anxious about it, especially with regard to the simulation. Does anyone know if a high filling degree has downsides with regard to the simulation? And if so, what is the proper way to it?!
Do not use big fillingdegree ( at max 3 IMO )
You should use a blank model, but this model should have a bouding box that match the size of the building ( in height also ! )

Edit : The best way to do that
create a building desc in PIMX for your blank model
go in reader and change the occupant size to match the real building ( this is really important )
go back in PIMX and do a 'Recompute properties' and change the filling degree according

If you plan to have lots with different number of 'buildings', then you should make a blank model desc for each so the filling degree and the volume can match the visual


« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 03:44:28 AM by wouanagaine »
New Horizons Productions
Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dmscopio ♦ dedgren ♦ emilin ♦ Ennedi ♦ Heblem ♦ jplumbley
M4346 ♦ moganite ♦ Papab2000 ♦ Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
Divide wouanagaine by zero and you will in fact get one...one bad-ass that is - Alek King of SC4

Offline Glazert

Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #263 on: January 25, 2013, 03:40:53 AM »
I love the village/farm pictures. They almost look like old pictures.

Offline sunv123

Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #264 on: January 25, 2013, 06:47:20 AM »
Wow! Nice job with these controllers, a pure beauty. &apls The meadow looks great and the river forest looks great as well. :thumbsup:

There is one thing that I dislike about the River controller and that is the lack of trees.... but I guess it's okay.

Any Idea of an upload? Looks fantastic.

Provo, a city apart Updated July 4.

Offline FrankU

  • It's Frank, the U is just for the suspense
  • BeNeLux Team
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 3348
  • Total likes: 225
  • Reputation: 14
  • Dutch Housing Project
  • CL:
    U Grow It
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #265 on: January 25, 2013, 07:17:24 AM »
Quote
Thing is I want to create 2x2 lots with multiple props on them, instead of one building per lot. So I've created desc files based on a small, invisible building which means to filling degree has to be ridiculously high in order to reflect the proper capacity (around 7500 for 250 folks). As far as I can tell, this is the correct way to do it but I'm still a bit anxious about it, especially with regard to the simulation. Does anyone know if a high filling degree has downsides with regard to the simulation? And if so, what is the proper way to it?!
Do not use big fillingdegree ( at max 3 IMO )
You should use a blank model, but this model should have a bouding box that match the size of the building ( in height also ! )

Edit : The best way to do that
create a building desc in PIMX for your blank model
go in reader and change the occupant size to match the real building ( this is really important )
go back in PIMX and do a 'Recompute properties' and change the filling degree according

If you plan to have lots with different number of 'buildings', then you should make a blank model desc for each so the filling degree and the volume can match the visual

Thanks Wouanagaine!
That sounds simple enough.

Offline epicblunder

Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #266 on: January 25, 2013, 11:49:26 AM »
I really like how the meadow aspect of the river controller is coming along.   :thumbsup:
Also on trees where you said the two reps of each row that cover 40-80%; i never did test for which rep was for completely flat ground-was it rep 8 or 9 out of the row of 16?  I ask because my next controller is going to be tropic and i'm either going to leave it empty or make it grassy, not sure yet.

I agree on the GLR that the tie spacing forthe first two needs to be much closer together, but i really like the effect of the third one where the rails are set right in the cobbles.

Offline xannepan

  • BSC Team
  • Forums Senator
  • *
  • Posts: 731
  • Total likes: 1
  • Reputation: 15
  • CL:
    Renaissance Man!
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #267 on: January 25, 2013, 03:15:11 PM »
What an amazing amount of work you have done and in store! Looking forward to the tree controller!
And obviously I am happy you are working on lots for my medieval set.

I may turn back to the medieval wall set soon, just because I probably need some time off with effect dir modding (doesn't mean I'll stop though). Anway if I do I' ll let you know by PM and see how we can distribute the work... Altoghh there seems to be plenty of it  ;D


Offline woodb3kmaster

  • SC4D Subscriptor
  • Forums Senator
  • *
  • Posts: 975
  • Total likes: 65
  • Reputation: 9
  • My name is Zack.
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #268 on: January 26, 2013, 05:06:16 AM »
Good Lord... Vortext, the work you're doing here is nothing less than epic! I hope I can get the chance to do some testing for some of the mods and lots you're been working on soon; while it's mainly for the benefit of my MD (for which I hope to post another historical update soonish), I hope I can be of use in your work in some way, too.

Feel brand new. Be inspired.
NYHAVEN - VIEWS FROM WITHIN
Nuclear City - 5/8

Offline Kergelen

Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #269 on: January 26, 2013, 11:59:53 AM »
Amazing tree controller! The gaps near the shoreline looks nice but IMO on the high attitudes are too much because if someone want sparce vegetation can manually erase it in some parts of the map. But you are the owner and the creator ;D Anyway I think you'll have diferents Tree-controllers so will be a good collection.

About the village is trully impressive. You cath the atmosphere from the old times. The carriages and the dog are T-21 exemplars? &apls

The urban tram in street looks particularly nice but the best for me is the darker grey coblestone texture for the avenue, some pages back.


                                    Links to SC4 websites

Offline nbvc

  • Forums Parliamentarian
  • *
  • Posts: 1078
  • Total likes: 3
  • Reputation: 2
  • CL:
    Just the Details
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #270 on: January 26, 2013, 12:18:56 PM »
Nice village and the medieval houses from Xannepan look great. :thumbsup:

Offline vortext

  • Administrator
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 3364
  • Total likes: 575
  • Reputation: 23
  • CL:
    Street Smarts
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #271 on: January 26, 2013, 01:23:48 PM »
@ Willy, yes, density is used to control the lots though it's primary use is for controlling transit textures. The entrance paths are overhanging props indeed, ID and IR lots are all network enabled though. As for the rural GLR, I'm not sure which look I'm after either. :D When I saw your rail retexturing (how's that going btw?) I wondered if I could make ties from scratch. It took a while but it worked out eventually. Then I did some research into early tramlines and they had ties too so I figured it might be cool to have that for rural GLR. For the next iteration I'll pull the ties closer together, maybe a little darker color too.

@ Simcoug, thank you! And you're right, a high filling degree makes the stats go all weird which is what got me worried. Looks like wouanagaine has provided the answer though so it's full steam ahead.

@ whatevermind, thanks! I've always been dissatisfied you have to start out in modern times too, though now I'm wondering if I'll ever reach modernity.  ::)
Anyway, you're absolutely right the GLR textures are too washed out. Thing is there's a huge color discrepancy between what I see on screen when I make them and how it turns out ingame. And to complicate things more there's also an ingame color discrepancy between transit and lot editor textures. So yeah, initially I have to dial saturation and contrast way up, beyond my comfortzone really and that's proving hard to unlearn.  :D  btw, consider yourself a beta tester!

@ Frank, seems like wouanagaine has provided the solution for both of us! I'm pleased you like the flowers and grasses. As for building variety, it may be a bit eclectic indeed but there're not many BATs that can fit in a European countryside. Basically I just took all the BATs that had the faintest hints of timber and stone.  ;) Also, I was rather pleased with the dark soil inbetween the tracks but on second thought you may be right, the GLR-in-street should be all cobble stone. .  &idea

@ wouanagaine, thank you for the explanation! :thumbsup: One thing though, I could also change the occupant size in PIMX, right?! Saves a trip back-and-forth.

@ Glazert, thanks, glad you like it!

@ sunv123, thank you! As for the lack of trees with the River controller, that's on purpose, obviously. It's also another reason why I made the Inland controller, which covers around 60% with forests. So now there's a choice between 100% cover with the Coast controller and almost none with the River controller. And yes, they will be released, sooner rather than later.  :)

@ epicblunder, thanks, glad you like the meadows! Yes, the two middle reps (8 & 9) are the dominant ones and both show on flat ground, though I always forget which shows the most  ::) (believe it's the most moist, 8 from the right hand side)

@ xannepan, thank you! I believe you're right, there's still a lot to be done (pun intended!  :P). And you have every right to take a break from SC4 given the tremendous work you've done!  :thumbsup:

@ woodb3kmaster, thanks! As I said elsewhere, I'm entertaining the idea to make a 'take-it-or-leave-it-historic-medieval-starter-kit' or something, with both the streets and lots. Though it would require a fair amount of sorting out and cleaning up, especially with regard to dependencies since I've pulled little props from megapacks. So honestly, time will tell if it'll get to that.

@ Kergelen, yeap, if you want sparser vegitation at higher altitude you'll have to bulldoze some flora. Or switch to the River controller halfway as I'm working on inter-usability right now (is that a word?! ;D). Dogs and carriages are done via T21 indeed, glad you like it! I like the dark avenue cobblestones as well so that'll probably remain the same. As I said earlier the urban & street GLR are too bright in comparison.

@ nbvc, thanks! Xannepans houses are awesome indeed, can't wait to start building with them myself!  ;)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 01:35:07 PM by vortext »
time flies like a bird
fruit flies like a banana

Offline gn_leugim

  • Forums Parliamentarian
  • *
  • Posts: 1145
  • Total likes: 117
  • Reputation: 4
  • EHA - Making houses for eUro!
  • CL:      ★★ SC4 ★★ General Contractor
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #272 on: January 26, 2013, 03:37:15 PM »
your berries are just... perfect :O more more bushes and small plants :p

Offline vortext

  • Administrator
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 3364
  • Total likes: 575
  • Reputation: 23
  • CL:
    Street Smarts
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #273 on: January 26, 2013, 03:42:19 PM »
your berries are just... perfect :O more more bushes and small plants :p

I think you meant to post in Girafe's thread.  &Thk/(  ;)
time flies like a bird
fruit flies like a banana

Offline gn_leugim

  • Forums Parliamentarian
  • *
  • Posts: 1145
  • Total likes: 117
  • Reputation: 4
  • EHA - Making houses for eUro!
  • CL:      ★★ SC4 ★★ General Contractor
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #274 on: January 27, 2013, 04:04:36 AM »
your berries are just... perfect :O more more bushes and small plants :p

I think you meant to post in Girafe's thread.  &Thk/(  ;)

oh, ya :o wrong thread, clicked to many times on the "back page" buttom   :-[ :-[

Offline FrankU

  • It's Frank, the U is just for the suspense
  • BeNeLux Team
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 3348
  • Total likes: 225
  • Reputation: 14
  • Dutch Housing Project
  • CL:
    U Grow It
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #275 on: January 28, 2013, 08:27:25 AM »
Hi Vortex,

Building styles in European rural areas seems to be kind of a personal preoccupation. So I had to react in some way. Indeed it's not easy to find some, so of course it's ok if you take another choice.
I would have been really upset if you had taken all Haarlemmergold's, Tag_one's, Vanderaaps and others's Dutch farm houses.... You would have mown the grass away in front of my feet.... As a Dutchman you understand my stonecole English (this is sounding like the poems of John o' Mill).  :D

Succes!

Offline Mr.Lin

  • Forums Mayor
  • *
  • Posts: 187
  • Total likes: 0
  • Reputation: 1
  • Your slogan here
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #276 on: January 28, 2013, 08:58:49 AM »
Wow! Vortex,your seasonal works is amazing!  I want to try some seasonal plants in my city, but I do not know how to plant different types of trees in the right position on the mountain, can you tell me?
(Well, I am so sorry, I use the Google translator because of my bad English level, so, I hope you can understand what I mean.)
THE CITY OF DANYARD ! SCCN
THE CITY OF DANYARD ! SC4D (Click on the pictures below)


人们都知道的,是生活;人们不知道的,才是艺术

Offline noahclem

  • Administrator
  • Forums Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 5870
  • Total likes: 707
  • Reputation: 16
  • CL:
    Resident Reindeer
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #277 on: January 28, 2013, 02:11:53 PM »
Good God what've you done here  :D   It's just one big ball of fantastic!  I've had this update open in my browser since you posted but haven't had time to give it the thorough read and feedback that it deserved until now.

The tree controller work is really looking great. The newer options particularly shine from a distance and it's very nice to have these different options. And seasonal meadows now too!

On to part 2: I know who I am  :D  Glad to hear an MD's likely in the works for this year! What you've accomplished here is just great. All the work that went into the modding and lotting really shows. Congratulations!

Finally, I'll be following your work with Xannepan's medieval stuff closely. The lotting sounds exciting (not the process but your result  $%Grinno$% ) and he's obviously done some great work with the models. And they're slope-tolerant nonetheless! Good stuff on the way here too I'm sure.

Keep up the fantastic work Erik  &apls &apls &apls

Offline wouanagaine

  • NHP Team
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 2854
  • Total likes: 7
  • Reputation: 43
  • CL: :computer: SC4 CodeMaster
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #278 on: January 29, 2013, 06:18:31 AM »
@ wouanagaine, thank you for the explanation! :thumbsup: One thing though, I could also change the occupant size in PIMX, right?! Saves a trip back-and-forth.
Yes, I forgot you can edit that in PIMX :)
New Horizons Productions
Berethor ♦ beskhu3epnm ♦ blade2k5 ♦ dmscopio ♦ dedgren ♦ emilin ♦ Ennedi ♦ Heblem ♦ jplumbley
M4346 ♦ moganite ♦ Papab2000 ♦ Shadow Assassin ♦ Tarkus ♦ wouanagaine
Divide wouanagaine by zero and you will in fact get one...one bad-ass that is - Alek King of SC4

Offline vortext

  • Administrator
  • Forums Guru
  • *
  • Posts: 3364
  • Total likes: 575
  • Reputation: 23
  • CL:
    Street Smarts
Re: Street Geekery
« Reply #279 on: January 29, 2013, 06:47:13 PM »
@ Frank, thanks for the John O'Mill reference, I hadn't heard of him but it sure is funny to read his work! Also, shouldn't it be charcoil English?!   ;)

@ Mr. Lin, Thanks! And I assume you want to make your own seasonal tree controller? If so, the placement is determined via the kSC4FloraPreferencesProperty property. I've explained it in more detail in this post. Also this and this contains valuable information regarding placement and tree controllers in general. Hope this helps, otherwise feel free to ask here or via PM. :)

@ Noah, one big ball eh?! And here I'd thought to present it conveniently arranged.  ::) :P Ah well, thanks for your kind words anyway! ()stsfd() Also, when done in small steps at a time I find lotting actually quite enjoyable, it's kinda like a jigsaw puzzle.   :D

@ wouanagaine, cool, thanks!

~

A few moments ago I send out the latest files to the beta testers. Also I forgot to show you the regionview for the River controller.






« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 08:29:01 PM by vortext »
time flies like a bird
fruit flies like a banana