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RHW (RealHighway) - Development and Support

Started by Tarkus, April 13, 2007, 09:10:49 PM

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thundercrack83

allen_kuan192: I love that passing lane one you did! It would be great for hills! Keep up the good work!

blahdy

just wanted to let you know that i did receive first set of MIS network piece specifications from Tarkus for modelling in 3ds Max.

I will start working on those within few weeks and post pictures of progress.

Other models I have made in the past for RHW should be posted in the usual upload place, but please let me know if they are not posted, so i can upload them for you guys to integrate in.

RSC18

I'm am really enjoying the progress of this progress, and can't wait for it to be released. I have a few questions about texturing:

1) Is it possible to create textures off of Microsoft paint?

2) Is there a tutorial on road textures on SC4 Devotion, if so, what is the link?

3) If so, could someone send me the textures (so that I can ATTEMPT) of RHW-2,4,6,8, and 10; AVE-6,8, and the 4 lane road (if it exists; I assumed it did because of the 3-lane road).

Sorry if this has been posted in the wrong area.


rickmastfan67

Quote from: BigSlark on October 05, 2007, 05:50:29 AM
You have made my day. No, seriously. I'm not joking.

The Super-2 concept has fascinated me for years and the ability to add it to SC4 is simply amazing.

Great work, James and Alex.

Cheers,
Kevin

Glad I was able to. ;)
-- James Mast, aka: rickmastfan67
Painter/Public Relations at: Masgrafx Racing.

Check out the 9/11/01 Car Set Checklist.

Take a look @ the JPG Compression tutorial.  A must read to help cut away unnecessary file size from 500k+ images to help dial-up users out.

allan_kuan1992

I don't think I have seen a super-2 highway in Vancouver, although there are some that are close to making the designation.

Anyways, a texture for a RHW2 exit to the MIS is attached below. Also attached is a diagonal RHW2 piece which I think needs work.

- Allan Kuan

RSC18

Does anyone know where I can get the base textures of a regular road, an avenue, Ave-6, Ave-8, a four lane road, and the wider RHW (6,8,10) and the TLA's, so that I can try to texture some interchanges for this project ()what() ()what().

If they have to be sent, could someone that has them please send them to the e-mail address located in my profile?

Thanks  :thumbsup:

allan_kuan1992

#686
Lemme see... the four-lane road, the wider RHWs, and the TLAs are in the hands of the people who are developing them. To get those, you may need to ask some people, like memo (working on the four-laned road) and Tarkus (working on the RHWs and the TLAs).

However, for base network textures, like the two-laned road, the two-laned one-way road, the avenue, the streets, and the standard elevated and ground highways, you will need to get three tools from Simtropolis; namely SC4Tool, Ilive Reader, and FiSHman. SC4Tool is the more straightforward of the three, and you can extract any texture from any game DAT-file (including the main game files and modder-created files like the NAM) as long as it is 128 x 128 in size. It's quite rare for network textures to not be 128 x 128, but irregular sizes do exist. If it isn't 128 x 128, or if it has an alpha map (two textures in one, essentially, but the second black-and-white texture tells the game what part of the texture to make transparent), then you will need to get Ilive Reader and Fishman to extract them. And that is where things get complicated...

Good luck in your texturing adventures =)

- Allan K.

RSC18

allan_kuan1992: THANK YOU SO MUCH for the helpful and detailed information; I will look into gathering these needed programs, and if sucessful, post some result (although it may be a while, due to "RLS").

Haljackey

#688
Hey everyone, if you don't mind, I would like to ask a few questions regarding the future of the RHW network.  These answers will give me a better understanding of what to expect for the network itself, as well as giving other members and myself additional information regarding the workings of the RHW network.

1.  Would you be able to list the new items/upgrades that will be included with the next release of the RHW?  Also, what would the new release enable us to with the RHW network that we currently cannot?

2.  As you may or may not know, I have been experimenting with the RHW network ever since its initial release back in 2005.  Since then, I have been able to experiment with the RHW to figure out how it works and interacts with other networks.  Using these tried-and-tested methods, as well with a little creativeness, I have been able to adapt the RHW network to fit almost every environment in SC4.  Additional releases have either added to or have actually hindered the flexibility of the network (drawing the network is now more difficult near overpasses or transitions in the current release than in older versions).  Will the RHW and the MIS system be able to work well together without these network difficulties?  (hence having 3 tiles next to each other in order to convert to the RHW).  I know that there have been "puzzle piece" starters in the works for the RHW, but will these have to be added each time you want to draw the network? (ex. Is one starter enough for a whole highway or will you have to place it after each exit, entrance and overpass?)  Thanks.

3.  Will you be able to easily draw sections of the RHW network in the same direction without the inner section automatically reversing?  This has been a problem in the past for me and others, (although the Multi-RHW guide helps this problem somewhat, but there are still severe limitations such as turning) and I was wondering if these "puzzle piece" starters would indefinably end this problem.  My ultimate  goal is to make something like this in SC4 (see picture below), and I was wondering if RHW-RHW transitions/ramps are attainable with the MIS system.  Thanks

Photo in relation to question #3 (focusing on lane transfers):


4.  There have been questions regarding the connectivity from the RHW to another network in the past (such as road, one way road, and street intersections/transitions).  Some of them include:
"As nice as the MIS ramps are, what would be nice, is a one lane road tool, not just for RHW but as another network, maybe in SAM",
"An exit needs both a deceleration & split lanes so that vehicles aren't weaving at the breakaway point, so will the MIS include them?",
"I have everything I need to make the RHW work, and I'm following the instructions; But when I lay two ANT Network pieces, they stay looking like roads, however they are notified by the game as Rural Highway. Is there some other known mod that might cause this?",
"I am unable to connect one-way streets or Highways or anything else directly to the end or side of a RHW",
and the list goes on.  Will the connectivity issues be fixed or at least somewhat repaired with the next release (namley the "puzzle piece" starter)?  This would make the network a lot more flexible, and therefore easier to implement in more environments.

Here are two examples of a connectivity issue: (I am sure you know about all the other other examples too  :P)

RHW defaulting to its ANT (RHW-2) texture due to a road intersection


Texture problems from monorail line and one-way road overpass

Also note that in both images the RHW texture under the overpass does not line up with the current texture.  This ALSO applies to an elevated highway underpass, where there are also pathing problems.

Anyways I hope that wasn't too overboard.  Take all the time you need to answer the questions.  Anything that will help clear up the confusion about the network would be greatly appreciated.  Best of luck with this bad boy!  :thumbsup:

-Haljackey (and by the way, its not my real name, so don't call me Hal or something like that  ;))

Tarkus

#689
Haljackey, those are some interesting questions you've presented, and I'll do my best here to answer them.

1.  As far as the new items/upgrades that will be included with the next release of the RHW, it will depend a lot on how RL is treating me and everyone else involved on the project.  Contrary to previous speculation, the next RHW will not be packaged into a larger "NWM" package.  (The NWM components will be released individually.)   The version number for the next RHW release is still undetermined (perhaps v20, or RHW+MIS v1).   

The highly-anticipated Modular Interchange System (MIS) for the RHW will definitely figure into the next release, in some form or another.  (It would be pointless to make another RHW release without it.  ;))  At least 3 ramp interface designs will be included for the RHW-4 and RHW-2 to interface with the single-lane MIS, and in addition, as Filasimo and I have mentioned many times (though no one seems to have paid attention :D) there will be a version to allow for auxiliary or merge/deceleration lanes.  The extra lane will be created through a puzzle-drag stub allowing for the construction of an RHW-6S (which will be included in at least a preliminary orthogonal form), allowing one to make the lane as long or short as needed. 

Here is an initial prototype texture, not necessarily indicative of the final version:


It is likely that both single and double-lane MIS ramps will be included.  All MIS ramps will be based on the ANT Network, allowing for higher network speed/capacity than the One-Way Road-based ramps that many people are currently using as interim on/off ramps.  The OWR-based ramps actually diminish highway functionality, with both the RHW, as well as with the Maxis Highways.  It will, however, be possible to transition from an MIS ramp to an OWR, to allow for frontage roads where development is accessed from the ramp, but the RHW will not directly connect to the OWR.   

With regards to the wider RHWs, as mentioned in the bit about the MIS, at least an orthogonal version of the RHW-6S will be included in the next version.  The main issue with the wider RHWs at this point is the diagonals. 

With the Elevated RHW (ERHW), blahdy is currently working on new models.  There's a possibility it may be included (along with an Elevated MIS).  The Double-Decker RHW (DDRHW, which will have its two decks at 15m and 30m, not ground-level and 15m like originally shown in the earlier prototype) is unlikely, and the Underground RHW (URHW) will not be included.  The DDRHW is having some exemplar-related issues, and we are still discussing how to implement the URHW, depending on how various experiments that jplumbley and Warrior have proposed turn out.

As far as other features go, there are a number of improvements being undertaken on the RHW-2, and an RHW-2-to-4 transition will be included.  New gentle curve puzzle pieces will be added, thanks to Alidonkey.  In addition, Road/RHW at-grade intersections will be possible.  Some impractical intersections which you can currently build will be disabled in the new version, including at-grade intersections between two RHW-4s, between an RHW and an Avenue, and possibly, between an RHW and a One-Way Road.  As I'll discuss under point #2 and 3, the Multi-RHW technique will be much easier to implement.

2 & 3.  I'm not sure entirely how drawing the network is more difficult near overpasses or transitions.  The RHW's internal RUL structure has been more or less unchanged between qurlix's last version (v12) and the current version (v13b).  There was some sort of glitch that appeared with the most recent version, and it appears to be related somehow to the changes made to the OWR network in the most recent NAM, likely in relation to the No Arrow/Arrow Reduction plugin (which has been cited for several other issues).  I have yet to find the source of this problem, but it will be fixed with the next release.

With regards to the Puzzle Drag version of the RHW, it is not replacing the current side-by-side method, but rather, is being offered in addition to the standard method.  It is primarily offered to add additional stability, and greatly aid building Multi-RHW setups.  It will also be possible to widen these Puzzle Drag RHW-4s, just like the standard RHW-4s.  (In fact, eventually, it will also be possible to widen the ERHW and DDRHW in this same way).  So, the setup shown in your first pic will definitely be possible.

4. With regards to connectivity, the RHW version currently available can already connect to Streets.  Roads will be added in the next version.  Avenues will definitely be disabled, as the current setup is unrealistic, and has pathing issues due to the inability of the ANT network to have functional Stop Paths.  You'll have to convert an RHW-4 to an Avenue or an OWR to intersect an Avenue.  For the same reason, the OWR-RHW at-grade setup will likely be disabled as well.  The RHW/Maxis Highway transition has already been fixed, and the RHW-OWR transition will be fixed by the next version.

With regards to some sort of single-lane road aside from the MIS, that's definitely doable, though it's low on the priorities at the moment.  (The so-called "Single Lane Road/SLR" project stickied on this board is actually a 3-lane 2+1 setup.)  For those who having difficulty with the side-by-side ANTs converting properly, they have a conflicting mod, and there's any number of mods that could be causing it.  Basically, any transit mod released before June 1st, 2007 containing a RUL with IID 0x10000002 will cause this issue.  It is suggested that they read the readme and run the BSC Cleanitol definitions, which will clear up any conflicts. 

As far as the issue with the second pic you have, that appears to be the APTX Shinkansen Addon Mod, which replaces the Monorail network.  At this time, there is not a patch to replace the RHW-Monorail crossing with an RHW-Shinkansen crossing.  I did create a patch for the HSRP mod, and at some point, I plan on releasing a small patch for users of the Shinkansen mod.

Hope that answers some questions.

-Alex (Tarkus)







Filasimo

Great update there Alex, I want to reiterate to those of you just following this development thread to make sure to go over this thread if you have any additional questions. Also stop by every now and then for further updates and as we always say: " It will be released when released"  ;)

btw Alex happy early bday!!
Plaza Mall Project
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2171.0
Coming Soon to the LEX!

NAM Team
What can NAM do for you?
//

Starmanw402007

Keep those updates coming Alexs, that photo is looking great as Tony The Tiger would say! &apls &apls &apls :thumbsup:.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities of Sim Nation!)
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)

Haljackey

Thanks a lot Tarkus for the answers to the questions. 

However, you stated that the Draggable RHW puzzle piece starter is only an alternative to drawing the two networks together.  If you drag the RHW from the puzzle piece, will it still convert in the opposite direction if placed next to another RHW in the same direction, or will it be "immune" to this if its dragged from the starter?  Do you have any idea what I am saying? 




On another note,

That ramp looks fantastic!  THAT is what I always wanted the highways in SC4 to look like! Its what I have been hoping for ever since I downloaded the first version of the RHW. Excellent job with the design, it is just perfect!  &apls

Two quick questions about it though: ???
1. can the accel/decel lane be extended as far as you want or is there a limit?
2. Can it act as a transition between a RHW-6/6C and a RHW-4, with one lane exiting/entering the highway instead of simply merging with the others?

Thanks again, and that seeing that ramp is a dream come true! (if dream is the right word).  :o
-Haljackey.

jplumbley

@Haljackey

Yes, the RHW next to an ANT drag will convert both to RHW, no matter if it was or wasnt dragged from a Starter Piece... There is no way for us to prevent or make it immune.

The RHW On and Off ramps are Puzzle Starters for the RHW and for the RHW-MIS.  The MIS will be draggable just like the RHW except it will be shown as an MIS texture.  Eventually, you will be able to make "The Basketweave" or something similar if that is what you are asking, but the may require more puzzle pieces.
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Street Addon Mod - SAM

Tarkus

Actually, JP, the RHW-4 produced by the Puzzle Drag Starter is immune to the standard side-by-side RHW override.  It functions as a completely different network.  I gave the Puzzle Drag version a different set of IIDs (according to the new IID scheme, leaving the existing version in tact). ;)  The way I've coded it, they maintain their autonomy. This will allow it to function both in the capacity of a C/D lane setup (without the difficulties encountered using the current Multi-RHW method), or as a 2-lane MIS ramp.

Here's an example of the Puzzle Drag RHW-4 in action, being used to create a C/D Lane setup. 

1) An RHW-4 override is initiated through the standard side-by-side method:
(That's a new as-of-yet-unreleased RHW-2 texture by rickmastfan67 there.  Just need to add the alpha map in ;))





2) The new RHW puzzle pieces button, under the highway menu (where I'm currently storing lots of fun new stuff, including the MIS ramp pieces ;))



3) The MIS ramp next to the side-by-side produced RHW-4



4) A couple of shots illustrating the RHW-4 puzzle drag stub working.  Note the lines on the RHWs.  They're facing the proper way for a C/D lane.  ;)   The puzzle drag and side-by-side RHW-4s never even try to override one another.





Haljackey, glad you liked the new ramp, and to answer your questions:

1) There basically is no limit in terms of length on the accel/decel lane--you can have the third lane going as long as you like--through several city tiles.  It's actually an RHW-6 in the "S" (separable) form.  The lane will have a minimum length, likely 3-4 tiles.  The other limitation is that it may (at least in the initial release) be orthogonal only, unless the diagonals are worked out by the initial release.

2)  Yes, it basically can act like a transition for the RHW-6S, but not the 6C.

Hope that answers some questions, and that everyone enjoyed the latest development screenies.  I'll have more soon. ;)

-Alex (Tarkus)






Filasimo

Although that last update seemed like a present to us hehe i just have one thing to say:


HAPPY BIRTHDAY ALEX!!!!!!!!!
Plaza Mall Project
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2171.0
Coming Soon to the LEX!

NAM Team
What can NAM do for you?
//

Haljackey

Wow, that is fantastic news Tarkus (Alex)!

Would you mind if I posted those pictures on my Multi-RHW thread over @ ST?  That way, it will give members the information about the project's future rather than me just answering questions. 

Happy BD by the way  :) Have a great one!
-Haljackey

BigSlark

Happy Birthday, Alex!

And Ryan is right...you gave us more of a present than the other way around.

I can't wait to see this be released.

Cheers,
Kevin

Ryan B.

Happy Birthday, Alex!  :D

Secondly, the new RHW / MIS stuff is looking amazing.  I cannot wait to use this stuff.

thundercrack83

Whew!

Amazing work, Alex! Absolutely amazing! And I love those textures that rickmastfan67 made, too! All in all, things look like their progressing quite well!

And, of course, I already told you, but--Happy Birthday, my friend!