Three Rivers Region

[Shadow Assassin]

You definitely will need to, Burg.

These pictures look great... maybe I should try out those ploppable cows then... the results would be rather interesting. I mean, it's good cow country around here, and that's what I see most in the farm areas... in fact, my grandparents usually have four or five cows on their property not far from where I live.

Sheep would be nice too, but that should be coming pretty soon anyway, courtesy of Chris.

And wow... I still remember that first post I made in 3RR... I didn't know it would become the big behemoth it is today.

[thundercrack83]

Stunning, David! Absolutely stunning!

Mooooooooooo.... (sorry, couldn't resist!)

Dustin

[Pat]

hheheehehehe one one I mean one word here mooooooooooooooooooootastic David!!!!    I wish you could hear me chuckling about now cause Dang I needed and thank you sir!!!






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btw that is 50 page views in 2 hrs

[yochananmichael]

  ROFL, ROFL those cows are hillarious I too live in cow country with the occasional bison herd thrown in for good measure these are excellent and the sign would be the coup de gras

[jacqulina]

hiya david,
excellent work and pics

[threestooges]

Have to love those cows. I rarely play the game with the sound on, but it's worth it for the mooooving symphony of sound these things create. Out of curiosity, are you just using the regular windmill or do you have the files for the angled ones? Knowing you and the grid, I half expected to see and angled one right along the FAR (actually, that gives me an idea). Great shots. You always manage to improve on the previous updates.
-Matt

[bat]

Wonderful work on these areas there, David! Looks beautiful!

[TheTeaCat]

Stunning simply stunning 

Once again you continue to amaze me with the dedication you put into this project.


TTC

[dedgren]

We're about to put the bow on Pink SW.  This'll give you a pretty good idea of what our collaborators, in this case Silvio (Rayden), will get if they're doing a rural/mountainous quad.

#1


The northwest corner of the quad extends out onto the Crazy Chicken Flats.  Cattle graze on the shortgrass bluestem prairie.  A paved secondary road heads south along upper Geode Creek providing access to this largest and most remote of 3RR's Regional Parks.

#2


The main facilities in the park will be located at the end of the pavement.  I can't wait to see what Silvio does with this.

#3


The park road to Brazile Hot Springs, another facility that will see Silvio's magic touch, continues south along the aspen-lined creek.

#4


The hotsprings road and creek diverge at the base of Lone Peak.

#5


Another view from a different direction down the valley.

#6


A final view of the whole area we just looked at.  We'll look at Brazile Hot Springs, Rayden Mountain and the rest of the quad in the next post.

Later.


David

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[threestooges]

That is absolutely amazing. You nailed the seasonal trees bordering upper Geode Creek. The close up pics you have been showing are great, but getting to see the whole picture... it is stunning. When collaboration gets going, it'll be a sight to see it all develop. The anticipation continues to build.

[thundercrack83]

Wow, Pink SW looks gorgeous, David! It really does!

And I agree with Matt--while the zoomed in shots are always a favorite of mine, when you zoom out it show just how breathtaking 3RR is! Extraordinary work, my friend! Absolutely extraordinary!

Dustin

[Alfred.Jones]

So many trees!!

That looks beautiful David
It is truly a marvelous effort

AJ

[girlfromverona]

Wow - that looks so real! I love how the dirt road winds up the hill. Can't wait to see how these quads are developed.   

[dedgren]

So, why are we here?

I mean that, seriously.  With respect to 3RR, there actually is an answer.  And, behind the answer, a single 3RR Regular^* who is responsible.

You may recall a few posts ago I noted my prediction made almost two years back in 3RR-ST that 3RR was a "dead end" [linkie].

What changed over the following month?- because, by mid-October, 2006, we were well into terraforming our current 256 quads.  It, as you will see, was a post by a 3RR Regular named Lora (ldvger), who, on September 10, 2006, said the following.

09/10/2006 11:58 PM

ldvger Local Yokel Posts: 127 Joined: 04/06/2003

I've just found your CJ because of my quest to learn how to create realistic above ground running water.  You have some great tips and ideas here, but your above ground running water seems to flow mostly across fairly flat ground.   I have created and massively hand terraformed a region that was a CJ until I ran into this stumbling block of streams and rivers and lakes above game sea level.  My CJ has been on hold for almost a year and I long to get back to it.  If you have the time, check out my CJ "Apocrypha".  This is very challenging terrain not only to build on but also to create naturalistic waterforms across.   I have read twice through your tutorial about how to create naturalistic above sea level water features and think I am beginning to get the hang of the concept, although I have not yet attempted your techniques in my CJ region.  Your use of a single species of trees along a watercourse I find especially inovative in areas where actual creation of water the game does not allow.   I have one major question for you.  I noticed that in your tutorial (Update #10) that you have your road in place before you create your stream.  It is my thought to continue to develope the natural landscape of my region prior to placing anything "built", including roads.  My thought being, to build my communities around the existing natural features of the landscape, just as happens in RL.  And so I woul;d lioke to be able to bridge streams and rivers after the fact, depending on how my communities grow, rather than trying to plan everything out to the "nth" degree ahead of time. I tend to see my regions and cities as entities that grow beyond my control, but with my guidance...I let the game engine prompt me in many ways.  But...as "God", I want to create the landscape upon which my cities grow, including surface water.  Once the natural landscape is complete, I let the game pretty much run the way it will. Any tips you could provide would be very much appreciated...I really long to get back to the development of my CJ.  PM me if you can or reply here if you can...I'll be checking back

Now, I've highlighted in bold text on yellow what Lora said that for some reason had simply not occurred to me before.  It took a few days to sink in, too.  About a week later, I responded.

09/15/2006 08:06 AM

dedgren Patriot Trixie Winner 2007 Posts: 1463 Joined: 06/24/2004

So here's the one thing I did- the response to Lora's (ldvger - Apocrypha) couple of posts concerning surface water, waterways and modeling the Alaskan terrain made over the last couple of days. __________________________ So, Lora: You’ve left two comments that really caught my attention over the past few days. The first was on 9/10 and started I've just found your CJ because of my quest to learn how to create realistic above ground running water. You have some great tips and ideas here, but your above ground running water seems to flow mostly across fairly flat ground. I have created and massively hand terraformed a region that was a CJ until I ran into this stumbling block of streams and rivers and lakes above game sea level. My CJ has been on hold for almost a year and I long to get back to it. If you have the time, check out my CJ "Apocrypha". This is very challenging terrain not only to build on but also to create naturalistic waterforms across. Wow, just as you note in your subsequent post, flattery will get you everywhere. Let’s parse the issues, both here and in the following ‘grafs… … your above ground running water seems to flow mostly across fairly flat ground. First and foremost, the Edmonton Ploppable Water [ linkie to DL ] I use in 3RR is not my creation. It’s that of a brilliant ST member named brtim2. I just had, through 3RR, a hand in making this great addition to the game more widely known. All credit for doing the hard work, though, belongs to him. A second very important point is that, absent some huge unanticipated discovery, there is no ability to create above ground flowing water in SC4... ...wait a minute, what about using the Rain mod? I've commented on the limitations associated with using Teirusu's "Rain mod" from his Extra Terrain Tools [ linkie to DL ] elsewhere in 3RR (that's a gentle way to say that I can't find where I did that right now and I'll update with a specific reference when I do).  Suffice it to say here that, among others, the Rain mod will not create water that will flow "downhill." Edmonton Ploppable Water is static. It doesn’t "flow" anywhere. This "game" limitation is a shame, but there is nothing we can do about it right now. Like many other things we do in SC4, ploppable water is a compromise– but the best we can do at the present time. Now, as for flowing best across mostly flat ground, I disagree. I demonstrated in the following pic   that ploppable water can be placed on substantially steep slopes [ linkie to general discussion of characteristics of ploppable water ]. I have to ask, if the slopes you’re talking about are that steep, wouldn’t you want to use a succession of ploppable rapids lots in any event? I will say that I am in complete agreement as to your desire to build "naturalistic waterforms." It is my opinion that such make a huge contribution to the credibility of the terraforming in a given region. Watersheds, and the canyon, gorge and valley landforms that make them up along with the rivulets, creeks, streams, and rivers that flow through them are fundamental to the creation of realistic terrain. I have read twice through your tutorial about how to create naturalistic above sea level water features and think I am beginning to get the hang of the concept, although I have not yet attempted your techniques in my CJ region. Your use of a single species of trees along a watercourse I find especially inovative in areas where actual creation of water the game does not allow. Thanks for the kind words as to my use of "fool the eye" techniques [ linkie ]. While I have only used in 3RR trees to denote waterways that look like the black spruce we find so commonly here in Alaska, I have experimented with other ploppable trees and achieved what I believe to be equally convincing results. I think that the use of this technique is a significant tool in the hands of a dedicated terraformer. I have one major question for you. I noticed that in your tutorial (Update #10) that you have your road in place before you create your stream. It is my thought to continue to develope the natural landscape of my region prior to placing anything "built", including roads. My thought being, to build my communities around the existing natural features of the landscape, just as happens in RL. And so I woul;d lioke to be able to bridge streams and rivers after the fact, depending on how my communities grow, rather than trying to plan everything out to the "nth" degree ahead of time. I agree with you wholeheartedly, Lora. Were I to do it all over again, I would complete all but the very finest level of terraforming detail in 3RR before I would build the first road or highway. You are exactly right- the entire natural environment comes before the first thing is created in the built environment. It is interesting, in light of my professional history, that you make this point in the way that you have. Back in my professional planner days, I had my first after grad school job as a regional planner for the planning department of St. Lawrence County, New York (SLC is the enormous pie-wedge shaped county along the Canadian border just south of the St. Lawrence River [ linkie ]). When I arrived, one of the tasks at hand facing the department was to update the county master plan that had been developed during the 1970s. One of the idiosyncrasies of the old plan that folks in the very businesslike early 1990s absolutely hated was that the county planner at the time the 70s plan was developed decided to completely disregard political and other manmade boundaries. Instead, his vision of a master plan for the county was founded on…you guessed it…the county’s various watersheds. The thing read like a Whole Earth Catalog [ linkie ] right down to the graphics, but it was really, in my view, pretty good… From a tech standpoint, it is entirely possible to lay out ploppable water before you lay the first road. You’ll lose a little superdetailing work when you create "land" bridges over PW streams, but that’s a small price to pay. As I said, that’s how I’d do it again. I tend to see my regions and cities as entities that grow beyond my control, but with my guidance...I let the game engine prompt me in many ways. But...as "God", I want to create the landscape upon which my cities grow, including surface water. Once the natural landscape is complete, I olet the game pretty much run the way it will. You’ve probably figured out that, if I were "God," I’d exercise my power a lot more like Robert Moses [ linkie ] than Verplanck Colvin [ linkie ]. I do love freeways. Any tips you could provide would be very much appreciated...I really long to get back to the development of my CJ. PM me if you can or reply here if you can...I'll be checking back. Whatever I can do to help, Lora- I’m Your Man [ linkie ]. On 9/11, you followed up Wow, I am flattered! And, being flattered, will of course be patient and check back often. I am hoping you had time (or will find time) to visit Apocrypha and take a quick gander at the terrian I am trying to bring watercourses to. Apocrypha is hypothetically situated in Alaska (and is terraformed from a RL Alaskan river delta system), so you may be able to give me pointers on which "water" trees to use to create the impression of watercourses smaller that ploppable water will allow me to lay down in game. As I’ve noted, Alaska has a particular tree, the black spruce, that are associated with riverbanks and the presence of water generally, especially as one heads north out of the discontinuous permafrost soils that mark southern Alaska and the area near where I currently live. Alaskan black spruce are generally fairly small (less than 20’/6m in height, although some can be up to 40'/12m), are generally almost perfectly "Christmas Tree" shaped, with branches spreading only about 6-8’/~2m at the base uniformly tapering to a pointy tip at the top of the tree. The needles are a dull dark green, hence the name, as the trees look black from any distance. They frequently grow close together along stream banks and lake shores- I’ll try to get some pictures as I head back this afternoon.  UPDATE:  (9/16/06)  No pics on the way back, sad to say.  Rained most of the way and low clouds would have made for rotten photos. Alaska also has several other varieties of trees commonly found- cottonwood, "tag" alder, willow and birch. None of these, however, are near so associated in my mind with banks and shorelines as black spruce. The pics I posted of the drive up to Fairbanks show forests of these trees as they commonly appear throughout the state in all but southeast and south-central coastal Alaska, where larger spruce and pines dominate, and in tundra areas, where the high ground water levels perched on top of the permafrost pretty much prevents any tree growth at all. One of the cycledogg ploppable trees jeronij created (the one with the whitish trunk- I think it is labeled "Aspen") would do a fairly passable job as representing stands of Alaskan birch or small alder or cottonwood, as the bark of these latter two trees up here is light silver-green in color. You’ve now got me planning, over the next bit, to experiment with some ploppable tree combinations in order to see what I come up with- I’ll keep you posted. You wouldn't by any chance have any interest in trying to create very small watercourses, would you? I know nothing of batting or modding, but it has crossed my mind that us fans do have the means and tools to create creeks and even rivulets, should we put our collective minds to it. Just a thought... I’ve actually done a set of these, along the lines of folks who’ve created forest paths and such. I set them aside when it seemed that there were just too many tile variants to be practical on a menu. I’ll dig them out once I’m home and do a post to let you and others who might be interested have a look at them. They may actually be just what you’re looking for, and as I created the custom textures involved, I have no problem just distributing them as an attached file. I don’t think they are STEX material. And, don't feel bad in saying no. I am an architect with a very small but busy practice in Seattle and SC4, as much as I love it, is only something I can allow myself to spend time with a couple of hours a week. My CJ died both from lack of above ground water as much as the interference of RL, something I know you can relate to. Hey, who’s saying no? Odd aside- I entered University of Kentucky in 1970 in that school’s 5 year B.Arch program. Second year studio convinced me I wasn’t fated to be an architect- I received a final project back with a very low grade and the comment, "While you are the best model-maker in the class, I detect little aptitude for making any other contribution to the profession." I changed my major shortly thereafter, then wound up dropping out altogether and getting drafted… …but that’s another story. Looking forward to hearing from you again, Lora. Take care.   David signature D. Edgren ________________

Once again, I've spotlighted the important part in bold text on yellow.  It took me a little more than than a month from that first flash of insight to get to here.

10/27/2006 03:42 PM

dedgren Patriot Trixie Winner 2007 Posts: 1457 Joined: 06/24/2004

like I said... ...I have a plan... ...and here's a teaser (meaning I'm still thinking it through) as to what the plan will be. My intention is to completely terraform the region first.  That will include fairly well thought through placement of particular types of trees, placement of all ploppable water, rapids and waterfalls, and lake, river and stream shoreline detailing.  I'm estimating about a month to do this. This intention is based on the following exchange, back about a month ago in this post [ linkie ] with Lora (ldvger - apocrypha).  She had asked in a previous comment [ linkie ] I have one major question for you. I noticed that in your tutorial (Update #10) that you have your road in place before you create your stream. It is my thought to continue to develope the natural landscape of my region prior to placing anything "built", including roads. My thought being, to build my communities around the existing natural features of the landscape, just as happens in RL. And so I woul;d lioke to be able to bridge streams and rivers after the fact, depending on how my communities grow, rather than trying to plan everything out to the "nth" degree ahead of time. I responded I agree with you wholeheartedly, Lora. Were I to do it all over again, I would complete all but the very finest level of terraforming detail in 3RR before I would build the first road or highway. You are exactly right- the entire natural environment comes before the first thing is created in the built environment. Little did I know that the opportunity to follow through would come so soon... So, as an aside, thanks, Lora!  You've had a hand in shaping the future of 3RR. After the terraforming is completed, I would develop a basic plan for the development of the region: such things as locate the urban and suburban city areas, outlying towns and villages, and place the skeleton of a pre-freeway era road system.  I'd also place main rail lines. Then I would open 3RR to you- With some fairly specific development guidelines (a set of common appearance standards and a well-thought through plug-in list at a minimum, there are many other things I will think of between now and then) I will solicit readers to undertake developing one or more quads within a reasonable timeframe.  If I found 50 folks and each developed two quads, that would represent major progress in a fairly short time.  I'd say by next spring 3RR would be well along, if such a collaborative approach would work out. Now, if you're inclined to be interested in being involved in this, let me know... ...once, please... ...and I'll start a list.  Then watch 3RR for progress toward the point where quad development would start, at which point you'll hear from me. That's the plan for now- it may change, but I like the idea. _____________________ Finally, where we are at with initializing the quads. We're getting there, slowly but surely. Later. signature D. Edgren ________________

So there you have it.  A month, of course, has turned into almost two years.  But Lora's wisdom shines through, and is about to come completely to fruition in the form of the final step- collaboration.

I don't know where our friend is these days.  She never posted again in 3RR-ST after those first few, and has not joined us over here.  Lora has been on ST as recently as several months ago.  I'd love to see her stop by so that she could take a look at what her vision is about to become.

Long text post- thanks for bearing with me.

Later.


David

^* A 3RR Regular is you once you have posted at least once here or over at 3RR-ST.

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[Rayden]

We're about to put the bow on Pink SW.  This'll give you a pretty good idea of what our collaborators, in this case Silvio (Rayden), will get if they're doing a rural/mountainous quad.

The main facilities in the park will be located at the end of the pavement.  I can't wait to see what Silvio does with this.

You're definately not going to make things easy for me, ain't you?

[bat]

Beautiful pictures of these wonderful woods, dedgren! Great work!

[Ryan B.]

As this progresses further, I'm really starting to think of 3RR as an actual, real-world place - someplace I'd love to live.

[Tarkus]

Hi David-

It's always fun taking a trip down Memory Lane--it's fascinating reading all these older posts you've lifted out of 3RR-ST.  I look back fondly on all the old discussions here and there on scale and planning.  Has absolutely changed the way I look at SC4--for the better, I might add.  It's also had an major impact on the RHW project as well.  And Silvio's quad looks fantastic.

-Alex

[Pat]

David fantastic trip down the memory lane there with that post from st...  WoW Pink is coming along very nicely there and with all that is happening I cant wait to see the fruit of the labor!!!

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[dedgren]

Here's a final sneak peak at



before we send it out to Silvio (Rayden).

Here's the tiny wetlands at the head of Black Rock Creek in the south-center of the quad.



Another view from closer in.



Black Rock Creek flows through a rock-sided canyon just below its source.



A second view of the canyon.



An overview of the canyon-headwaters area.



Here's Rayden Mountain (on the right) and Lone Peak (on the left).  The park road to Brazile Hot Springs crosses the saddle between the two.



The area south of Lone Peak.



Brazile Hot Springs, a favorite of the early trappers and miners in the area, is at the center of this pic.



The road in was built in the 1920s- more on that later.



There's nobody here today.  Access to the area is by daily lottery (March-October) held at park headquarters.  If you win, you get a four-hour vehicle pass to use the road and parking area.  There are four pass periods a day, eight cars each, starting at 7:00 a.m.  Access to hikers willing to use the 2-1/2 mile trail from Park HQ is not limited.



Another view of the hotsprings and parking area.



Looking south from just above Lone Peak.



The source of upper Geode Creek is south of Lone Peak.  The aspen in this area is magnificent.



A final pic of the entire area.  The park extends to the east up into the Tincup Pass area.



* * *

On a different note, I find it sad to say that a few 3RR Regulars^* were caught up in the fracas that occurred over at another SC4 fansite.  Some things were said about SC4D and some of the staff here that were very unfortunate.  I'll ask that everyone who would enjoy SC4D and coming to 3RR would observe the following rule, which we put in place for a reason.

• In cyberspace generally SC4D is, by and large, a self-policing community of members.  The staff cannot enforce these rules at some other fansite, or indeed anywhere away from SC4D itself.  Please do not expect, then, to the extent you would have a complaint about another member's conduct offsite, that any action will be taken- we are a fans of a computer game and not the cyberpolice.  One exception to this, however, is if a member is found to be offsite stating untruthful or defamatory things about SC4D or its administration- if you have a complaint about or some other issue with us, please give SC4D the courtesy of bringing that to our attention here in the form of a PM to any administrator or moderator.  If a member is found to be offsite making statements that, in our view, are not constructive as regards SC4D or otherwise reflect inappropriate discredit, our assumption will be that the member no longer values the benefits of SC4D membership and he or she will almost certainly have membership terminated or, at the very least, suspended for an extended period, to include privileges on the LEX.

I've put in bold italics the important part of the rule.  I take the few rules we've seen fit to put into place here at SC4D very seriously.  If you ever have any issue with something going on here, please PM me about it first.  I will try to respond as quickly as possible.  Again, please- it's just simple courtesy.

* * *

Later.


David

^* A 3RR Regular, as always, is anyone who has ever posted here or over at 3RR-ST at least once.  That said, 3RR Regulars, just like everyone else, still have to follow the rules.

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