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Author Topic: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them  (Read 65052 times)

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Offline sithlrd98

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #180 on: August 26, 2009, 02:49:40 PM »
And in truth.. I mean really.. is it really THAT ANNOYING????? A quick smack with the bulldozer and its gone.. probably the least annoying of all the SC4 "problems" that I can think of.

Hey...its cool  :thumbsup: As far as the issue being annoying, demolishing works but.....IMO, that is extremely annoying ! Maybe not as annoying as CTDs or PropPox, but at least this annoyance can be fixed quite easily!  ;D

Jayson

Offline SC4BOY

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #181 on: August 26, 2009, 03:15:54 PM »
The one you sent is unfortunately the same, which is now available for download.
That dummy file is dated February 1st, 2008, whereas the other files in that zip file are dated January 26th and 27th.

Hmmm, you are correct in that point

Quote
In other words, you have downloaded the updated lot, but probably haven't removed the original files... &mmm

I double-checked that.. The only files in my plugins are those files

Quote
The original file, which grows on empty lots, would in that case be in some other file... &mmm
Not knowing its filename, the only clue would be to look for files having a date matching the other files... January 26th or 27th.

Can you DOUBLE check those files? I really don't find any other candidates for the empty lot syndrome.. wait.. Ok I am sending a zip of the actual files in the PATIOS folder in my PLUGINS (that other one was from my "install archive") to you.. they are dated the same as the ones I sent you already so are likely the same files, but you never know I guess..
OK.. I sent my complete SOMY folder from my PLUGINS (other than the MegaPaks which I dl'd from the LEX.. I assume those have no problems in them) All of those were probably obtained at the same site given before.

Quote
Yes, your version was in fact identical to one of those Jayson sent me.
Both versions of the Meiji building were added to the lists with the latest update. ;)

Great

Hmmm.. I noted that apparently I was posting (actually editing) my previous post at the same time as you were on your last message above.. :)

WRT "ANNOYING" as far as I know there is absolutely no real ill-effects on the game even if you never notice the "bad lot" is there?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 03:24:04 PM by SC4BOY »

Offline RippleJet

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #182 on: August 26, 2009, 03:54:39 PM »
Can you DOUBLE check those files?

Already double checked them all, more than once.

EDIT:
Since those files that are now included in Somy's upload only contain one growable lot,
I suspect he might in fact have removed a ploppable residential lot from his original upload.
All lots growing empty are "functional" ploppable landmarks (having jobs or residents).


OK.. I sent my complete SOMY folder from my PLUGINS

That email hasn't arrived yet...
I hope you didn't send me more than 10 MB to my hotmail address... ::)


(other than the MegaPaks which I dl'd from the LEX.. I assume those have no problems in them)

The mega packs only contain models and prop exemplars, no building exemplars (which is what we are looking for).


WRT "ANNOYING" as far as I know there is absolutely no real ill-effects on the game even if you never notice the "bad lot" is there?

What isn't annoying to you might be very much annoying to others.

Besides, since these invisible buildings growing on empty lots are in fact landmarks modded to be functional (have jobs),
there may indeed be one effect that is very annoying... especially if you'd have no idea what to look for...

It is also important to notice that a landmark growing on an empty lot retains whatever monthly cost that was given to it. Since a landmark usually is associated with a rather high monthly cost, you might quickly drain you city budget unless you bulldoze such empty lots.

Also read this post by Emerikol:
Quote from: Emerikol at http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=24&threadid=84525&enterthread=y#1019191
I would like to add, that neglecting to fix this bug can lead to budget problems. the Tower Residence was costing me 30,000 a month in the landmarks menu until I deleted every single instance of it in my city. BahrainWTC was costing over 10,000 a month.

Unfortunately the original post he made (which I linked to in my reply) is now gone from ST.
However, he had immense problems finding the offending small empty lots in his skyscraper city.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 04:05:08 PM by RippleJet »

Offline SC4BOY

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #183 on: August 26, 2009, 04:52:27 PM »
...
..I hope you didn't send me more than 10 MB to my hotmail address... ::)

Yes I was worried about that.. I got the "rejected" notice already.. :( .. it is a bit under 15Mb .. I'll email you with an alternate..

Quote
What isn't annoying to you...

Also read this post by Emerikol.....

However, he had immense problems finding ...

All well-made points.. obviously I think it is worthy of attention or I wouldn't bother either.. :)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 08:03:45 AM by SC4BOY »

Offline RippleJet

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #184 on: August 26, 2009, 05:35:22 PM »
Files arrived in good order, and I've checked every file included...
Nothing in your SOMY folder grows on empty lots...

In other words,
the building exemplar on that empty lot you have in your city
must reside in a file somewhere else in your plugins...

Offline RippleJet

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #185 on: August 26, 2009, 07:02:20 PM »
Apart from his Train Station and Bio Protector, all lots made by Rush grow as empty landmarks.
They have now been added to the lists above, and I'm just listing the 42 filenames here:

Rush_bank01_75ddbe77.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CO$$$_1000_b2f6d751.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CO$$$_5000_72c0220b.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CO$$$_corse building_12be81a4.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CO$$$_hillstower001_72f638a4.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CO$$$_lucent  tower_b2a18b13.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CO$$$_mid land square_528cb941.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CO$$_1000_92f6d731.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CO$$_5000_f2c021e2.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CO$$_shk_12b516d2.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$$owaseko-hi-_f4103777.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$$restaurant001_73ff07c8.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$$senmonten001_d40fff15.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$$_1000_b2f6d712.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$$_5000_d2c0218c.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$001_33fdf212.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$002_53fe7d24.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$inshoku002_3411234e.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$inshoku002_940f1809.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$_1000_72f6d6f2.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$_5000_f2c0214e.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$$_norikurashokki_72b7df4b.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$_1000_92f6d6c9.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_CS$_5000_92c0212b.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_HT_1000_52f6e612.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_HT_5000_f2c0204a.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_ID_1000_92f6e5b2.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_ID_5000_92c01f0a.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_IM_1000_52f6e5f6.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_IM_5000_92c02009.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_IR_1000_12f6e5d1.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_IR_5000_b2c02233.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_R$$001_143f5b37.SC4Lot
Rush_Blank_R$$002_143f8876.SC4Lot
Rush_bond_b5de8487.SC4Lot
Rush_bouekisenta-_f5f6b360.SC4Lot
Rush_co_001_35dc5802.SC4Lot
Rush_hq001_75db2aa5.SC4Lot
Rush_life_insurance_55e11173.SC4Lot
Rush_newbuilding_95f6b1b7.SC4Lot
Rush_redbuilding_95ded19e.SC4Lot
Rush_taishobuilding_95f81083.SC4Lot

Offline sithlrd98

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #186 on: August 26, 2009, 07:15:03 PM »
Yeah, I was making a Html file to convert to PDF while you were updating ;D

Jayson

Offline SC4BOY

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #187 on: August 26, 2009, 11:59:55 PM »
..., and I've checked every file included...
Nothing in your SOMY folder grows on empty lots...
...must reside in a file somewhere else in your plugins...

Well.. thanks for the followup. I'll continue to search to define exactly what is the problem. Sorry for all the trouble with no result. As soon as I find something I'll be back with a post. With that "46" label I would would have bet a large sum on that being it.. :(


Offline RippleJet

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #188 on: August 28, 2009, 04:19:33 AM »
Regarding my earlier request...

Now, if Masuda さん comes across this, I would ask him to give the complete in-game Japanese name for the Shirokiya Department Store.

... I want to extend my gratitidue to one of the nicest and most helpful persons on Devotion!
Here's Masuda san's report:





Name : 白木屋 日本橋店 (Nihonbashi Shirokiya)
(A meaning : Shirokiya, build in Nihonbashi TOKYO)

Offline SC4BOY

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #189 on: August 28, 2009, 02:54:49 PM »
I almost hessitate to bring this up, because it throws a monkeywrench into the whole thing. However here are the facts:

Point of discussion: The SOMY Patios 46 (with all the discussion above regarding Growing Empty Lots)

1. I absolutely got the file about 11pm on the 4th of Feb, 2008 (technically a day BEFORE it was updated, but I think Japan has the 5th during our 4th USA EST)
2. I downloaded it one time and only one time on that 2008 date. I have never re-downloaded it. I DID download and install the SOMY Megafiles, but it is my understanding that this absolutely does not address the empty growables issue.
3. It has the updated files dated late Jan, early Feb in it as examined by Tage yesterday
4. I have repeatedly scanned my plugins and have neither removed, added, or overwritten any of those SOMY files. Not only do I just know this because I didn't, but I can also tell this by the way Windows dates files freshly downloaded.. it shows them as "modified" on  the download date for the zip and on the "install" date for copies extracted from zip files, independent of the creation date.
5. I did not ever execute the EMPTY GROWABLES cleanitol (other than to get a report.. I did also review ALL my cleanitol activities since before Jan 2008 as I still have the full archive) since I actively use a few of those files and didn't want to go through all my cities.. and as I've said before it is a trivial issue to deal with them as they occur.
6. I absolutely got the EMPTY GROWING LOT as pictured above about 3 days ago. It has occurred 1 and only 1 time.
7. I installed the "extracheats.dll" about 2 weeks ago so I went through my plugins and plopped anything that I didn't absolutely know what it was. Only one plop gave the " 46 () " query.... that one. When I plopped it with this cheat, it plopped properly.

From all this I can only conclude that there is more than one reason for a file to generate an empty growable on a lot. I do not really have the skills nor background knowledge to prove this in any way, but I hope this post will invite others to try to observe similar situations and post them here.

I welcome any thoughts on this issue and will execute any reasonable exercize that I can do to help get to the bottom of this. Thanks
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 02:58:24 PM by SC4BOY »

Offline sithlrd98

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #190 on: August 28, 2009, 03:10:48 PM »
As I do not seem to have that file...at least that I can find , in the exemplar,was there a Building/prop Family 0x400000AB or similar? I thought for sure I had the correct file when I sent it to Tage , but after I looked at the date and then looked at the exemplar , it seemed fine.

Jayson

Offline RippleJet

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #191 on: August 28, 2009, 03:15:16 PM »
SC4BOY, if you upload your city savefile (SC4) e.g. on Fileden or RapidShare,
I could take a look at it with Wouanagaine's SC4 Save program.

If I can locate the building exemplar in the building subfile or the lot exemplar in the lot subfile,
then I should be able to tell you the TGI of that building or ID of the lot...
that might help us find it (if the creator has left the TGI in the filename).

In order to find the building in the SC4 file, I'd need you to open the city in the game once more,
and by using the TerrainQuery cheat, I'd like to get the exact coordinates of the lot (cell numbers and X-, Y-, Z-coordinates).

Offline SC4BOY

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #192 on: August 28, 2009, 03:25:30 PM »
Ummm .. sadly I deleted the offending "growable" as I thought the issue was resolved. In light of that, I'm not sure what you mean.. of course I'll be happy to do it if I understand what you want. I did, while plopping, find several of those somy houses in the "pack".. ie that I dl'd the same time as I got it. All of them are large apartment blocks, but none of them had any names on the files There are 4 200 cap, and 5 600 cap...  maybe they somehow "inherited" the name, but none of the others have that capacity? I don't pretend to know how SC4 works.  Naturally I will keep my eyes wide open for any other occurance
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 03:34:26 PM by SC4BOY »

Offline RippleJet

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #193 on: August 28, 2009, 03:31:02 PM »
As I do not seem to have that file...at least that I can find , in the exemplar,was there a Building/prop Family 0x400000AB or similar?

Here's the building exemplar for Patio 46's dummy building exemplar:




From all this I can only conclude that there is more than one reason for a file to generate an empty growable on a lot.

Yes, of course there is another reason...
Since the building itself is not a building exemplar, but a prop exemplar,
it would simply be missing in the game if you didn't have the prop exemplar,
patios46-0x6534284a-0x94a7aaf4-0x14a7e8c8.SC4Desc

However, since that file was included in the zip file you sent me,
I assume you do have it there when you play the game as well.


Ummm .. sadly I deleted the offending "growable" as I thought the issue was resolved. In light of that, I'm not sure what you mean.. of course I'll be happy to do it if I understand what you want. I did, while plopping, find several of those somy houses in the "pack".. ie that I dl'd the same time as I got it. All of them are large apartment blocks, but none of them had any names on the files...  maybe they somehow "inherited" the name? I don't pretend to know how SC4 works.  Naturally I will keep my eyes wide open for any other occurance

Ok, is there any chance you did not have the prop exemplar in your plugins folder when it grew?
You might want to test this now by removing the above prop exemplar from your plugins,
and then use BuildingPlop to plop the Patio in the game.

If it looks the same as in your picture above, then that could be the answer to it.

Offline SC4BOY

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #194 on: August 28, 2009, 03:42:50 PM »

Since the building itself is not a building exemplar, but a prop exemplar,
it would simply be missing in the game if you didn't have the prop exemplar,
patios46-0x6534284a-0x94a7aaf4-0x14a7e8c8.SC4Desc

However, since that file was included in the zip file you sent me,
I assume you do have it there when you play the game as well.

I do and by the exact same name and number

Quote
Ok, is there any chance you did not have the prop exemplar in your plugins folder when it grew?

No

Quote
You might want to test this now by removing the above prop exemplar from your plugins,
and then use BuildingPlop to plop the Patio in the game.

If it looks the same as in your picture above, then that could be the answer to it.
Will do

I did think of one added bit of info.. when I re-DATPACK my files, I save the old datpacked files. I could send copies of that old datpack file, but of course that doesn't have the info in a save file. But at least I do have it so thought I'd mention it. This could prove absolutely if a file was/wasn't in my game file at a given point of play I also have rather arbitrary saved "city states" as I play in order to recover if ugly things happen. If those happen to be at the RIGHT TIME or the RIGHT CITY I can't say :(

LOL just thought of another point that may/may not be useful. All those "empty" growables happened on a medium or a small city tile, not the large tile.. I only have one LARGE city tile in this region.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 03:58:47 PM by SC4BOY »

Offline sithlrd98

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #195 on: August 28, 2009, 04:10:21 PM »
Well since I am still , well you know where I am ;D I can't check , but...answers that question!   ;D

Jayson

Offline RippleJet

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #196 on: August 28, 2009, 04:49:52 PM »
I did think of one added bit of info.. when I re-DATPACK my files, I save the old datpacked files. I could send copies of that old datpack file, but of course that doesn't have the info in a save file. But at least I do have it so thought I'd mention it. This could prove absolutely if a file was/wasn't in my game file at a given point of play I also have rather arbitrary saved "city states" as I play in order to recover if ugly things happen. If those happen to be at the RIGHT TIME or the RIGHT CITY I can't say :(

Naw, I do not intend to check through huge datpacked files...


LOL just thought of another point that may/may not be useful. All those "empty" growables happened on a medium or a small city tile, not the large tile.. I only have one LARGE city tile in this region.

That shouldn't play any significance whatsoever, unless you're using different SUM setups for different cities.

Offline SC4BOY

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #197 on: September 02, 2009, 11:58:14 PM »
Condensed from previously:

... be missing in the game if you didn't have the prop exemplar,
patios46-0x6534284a-0x94a7aaf4-0x14a7e8c8.SC4Desc

...included in the zip file you sent me,
I assume you do have it...

I do and by the exact same name and number

Quote
...any chance ..not .. in your plugins folder when it grew?

No

Quote
..test this now by removing ... then.. BuildingPlop..

If it looks the same as in your picture above, then that could be the answer to it.

Have done ;)


Added Info: Despite that file could not have been missing, I did test it as you requested. As you predicted it plopped "empty". How it "grew empty" in my plugins I have no idea. Prior to this test, there has been  no modification of my SOMY files (other than the previously mentioned SOMY Megafiles, which as you mentioned should not be a factor).

Remove patios46-0x6534284a-0x94a7aaf4-0x14a7e8c8.SC4Desc and BuildingPlop'd Patio 46.



... unless you're using different SUM setups for different cities.

I almost forgot.. I don't use SUM. I only play one region so no need.

HMMMM.. a few things bother me about the above pic. One thing is the props on the lot are completely different from the 1st pic (repeated below for easy reference) The props above are the correct ones I'd expect from the SOMY Patio 46, the ones below are not. The flammability and pollution values are different.. in short they really just don't look much like they came from the same lot other than the query.



« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 12:32:35 AM by SC4BOY »

Offline RippleJet

Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #198 on: September 03, 2009, 01:22:16 AM »
Thanks for your testing!

The flammability and pollution values are different.. in short they really just don't look much like they came from the same lot other than the query.

Indeed. A flammability of 13 definitely suggests it is from a typical ploppable landmark, that grows on an empty lot.
Growable building exemplars always get a flammability of 35/40/45 (depending on wealth) in Maxis PIM.

Thus, this building exemplar must have used by someone when creating a functional ploppable residential landmark.
It may even not have been created by Somy...

Offline dragonshardz

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Re: Growing Empty Lots and How to Correct them
« Reply #199 on: October 22, 2009, 01:03:40 AM »
Could someone please email me the Blank Lots Cleanitol list? I'm not able to access attachments at the moment, and I need to check my plugins for them.

Also, Pegasus' Seasonal Lot does grow a blank lot, but only if CAM is installed as the lot's default Growth Stage is set outside the vanilla range. I've modified the growth stage (set it to 255) and added the properties outlined in the tutorial, I just need to check and see if it still grows BLs.