Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content

[djp]

Hello lovely SC4D people

I have been looking after Peter Rorlach's (DocRorlach) sites since his passing and have pretty much left them alone and sitting on my server gathering dust - everything has still been accessible to the community and apart from the annual domain renewal price there isn't really any reason for me not to continue the statue quo.

My reason for posting is to see if there is a better home for these sites or if there is even a need for them to still exist at all??
Traffic numbers are low compared to the good old days, but the sites are still in use so I am happy to continue hosting them.

They do look a little dated, but still fully functional as far as I am aware - none of the email address have been in use for a while so I would not have received any messages if there were issues.

I have backups of everything online and on my PC, so there is no chance that everything can be lost as happened at SimPeg

Does anybody still use any of the sc4tools?
I'm not sure if the download and installation catalogue (DIC) even works with Win10 - it would be nice to know if it is a usable piece of software for the community still.

I also have numerous backup files from Peter containing various gmax files and other files that may be of use to others


http://sc4tools.co.uk/

http://workingman-productions.co.uk/

Any comments or suggestions on the future of these sites would be appreciated.


David

[fantozzi]

I felt a shiver through my neck when I saw your avatar. I'm a big fan of DocRorlach's stuff (https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/31497-rural-docklands-expansion-rde/). I think the wmp exchange is still used and someone takes care of it for memorial purpose, I guess, but overqall the SC4 community became smaller and we have to be glad for every undertaking to keep things together and to remember those pioneers that made SC4 more than one of those "come-and-go-games" to us.

Historical awareness on SC4 is still something young and sometimes childish  but it grows. There are custom content creators, now 15 years on this game - and they discover they have a cutline, a tall tale. SC4 has a history and part of this history is already covered with dust.

I joined community in 2009 and would feel honored to know more about the times before I came active. To know mre about Doc Rorlach.

[djp]

Hi Fantozzi,

Apologise for unintended shock

That expansion set looks really good, I have been out of the loop for so long that I have lost touch with anything anybody has done recently
anyway, if you feel like doing anything else I have a load of Peters old design files that may be of use to you.

I started sorting though his old backup drives to upload as Ron (Rivit) was interested in them, but RL took over and I didn't really get very far.

If there is interest I will dig out his old HDD and go through things

[Simmer2]

Hi djp

You are definitively doing a huge service to the community by keeping those files still available for download 

If and when you have the Doc's original gmax files dug up, I would not mind a copy to keep in my vault. Who knows, perhaps I could give life to some of them thus allowing the community to enjoy some of his unreleased content.

I have made a few things myself....

Cheers

Simmer2/Nick

[Silur]

Hi djp
You wrote about the beautiful things of the WMP team. I thought I had everything. But now I have to look at it again. I also want to have unreleased GMaX models. Thank you for your messages and good luck.

[fantozzi]

I started sorting though his old backup drives to upload as Ron (Rivit) was interested in them, but RL took over and I didn't really get very far.

If there is interest I will dig out his old HDD and go through things

Same thing here. Still many ideas, still delight spending time with the game but they won't let me. RL ...

I guess, my children they think it's some sort of behavioral problem, they have to keep old Fantozzi away form the game, it's not good for his mental health if he spents so much time with a silly game at his age. I'd always thought, when you become adult you can do all the things freely that you had to hide when you was a little boy. No way. Nothing did change - like mother didn't let you have some privacy even under the blanket in your childhood now it's your own children checking your fridge and your PC if there is something "insane" to worry about. And  if there is porn, maybe it would be okay, but there is SC4 and they are worried. Mother said: "don't do this son, it's weakening your mind." Now your children say: "don't play so much SC4 dad, it weakens your mind." Once priests gave ethics. Now fitness-trainers give ethics. And – strange thing – I always find myself on the wrong track. 

Sorry. I became distracted. I don't have max, only gmax and I guess the original models are better in the hands of Simmer2. I even like this.

When I made the Rural Dockland Expansion there wasn't most of Nick's props and I just had started batting. I want to redo the whole RDE project and making use of Simmer2 content. So to my personal interests this would fit perfectly if I could ask Simmer2 for some DocRorlach stuff.

But if there is any dockland related props in your posession I would be highly interested. As soon as I have finished my urban street pack I'll making a completely new version of the RDE. I would also be glad to add some lot dedicated to DocRorlach, some kind of monument or prop related to him, a "DocRohrlack Square" something like this, so inside the game he would have his own place.  If you have any idea for this please let me know.

Thank you. 

[matias93]

Super brief comment because I'm at the office right now, but yes, the DIC indeed works perfectly with Windows 10, and is still really useful. I've done some low-key campaign to motivate others to use it, but I cannot say for sure if it has had effect.

[djp]

Thanks for your replies, it looks like there is still interest in Peters work - which is good to hear

I'll have a look through his old archives when I get a chance and see what is in there, I do not think there is any unreleased content - just design files for things that have already been released.
I don't know how these things are assembled to work in the game, but hopefully what I have is useful

it's good to also hear that the DIC behaves itself with Win10, hopefully the same applies to the other tools

David

[Tyberius06]

... none of the email address have been in use for a while so I would not have received any messages if there were issues.

David

Hi David!

I tried to make contact via the comments@workingman-productions.co.uk email address one month ago (regarding Doc's contents and the usage of Doc's contents), but my email came back with an error message, that "the email address can not be found or it is not able to receive any emails". I don't know how it would look like in english, since I use my gmail in hungarian, so this was the best translation about the error message what I received.
Anyway Ron (Rivit) helped me out in that matter.
Atm I quite busy with some NAM path modding stuffs, but I also have background projects with STEX and LEX admins organizing contents on the exchanges. I think I have downloaded all Doc's contents from the WMP site and I made a little organizing work on my end for my use (better folder structure, merging called prop packs, take out the duplicate and redundant essential and texture files etc...), so if you plan anything similiar or eventually you plan to bring those contents to other exchanges (or in the case of the STEX contents would consider an update - these "changes" - what I made for myself for my back-up collection - are not affecting on the modding or functional part of the uploads) I would be happy to help. Also I'm interested in getting those gmax files, if it's possible

Kind Regards,

Tyberius

[djp]

... none of the email address have been in use for a while so I would not have received any messages if there were issues.

David

Hi David!

I tried to make contact via the comments@workingman-productions.co.uk email address one month ago (regarding Doc's contents and the usage of Doc's contents), but my email came back with an error message, that "the email address can not be found or it is not able to receive any emails". I don't know how it would look like in english, since I use my gmail in hungarian, so this was the best translation about the error message what I received.
Anyway Ron (Rivit) helped me out in that matter.
Atm I quite busy with some NAM path modding stuffs, but I also have background projects with STEX and LEX admins organizing contents on the exchanges. I think I have downloaded all Doc's contents from the WMP site and I made a little organizing work on my end for my use (better folder structure, merging called prop packs, take out the duplicate and redundant essential and texture files etc...), so if you plan anything similiar or eventually you plan to bring those contents to other exchanges (or in the case of the STEX contents would consider an update - these "changes" - what I made for myself for my back-up collection - are not affecting on the modding or functional part of the uploads) I would be happy to help. Also I'm interested in getting those gmax files, if it's possible

Kind Regards,

Tyberius

Hello Tyberious,

Apologise that you could not make contact directly, unfortunately when I changed servers and swapped the domains over the email address that had been setup did not transfer so no longer accepted incoming emails - I think I will set these up again so at least there is a point of contact for the WMP site.

I am happy that Rivit was able to help you out with this matter and am 100% happy for Rivit to do whatever he feels best for this content (especially in my absence )

It may be a good idea to update the STEX uploads and also add all the content to the LEX as well, I will take you up on your offer of help here

I best get on sorting these files, just hope there is something useful.

David

[mattb325]

Hi djp. A huge thanks for keeping Peter's content alive and available for all of these years - docRorlachs work was really lovely 

[djp]

Hi djp. A huge thanks for keeping Peter's content alive and available for all of these years - docRorlachs work was really lovely 

Thanks Matt,

no problem with hosting Doc's work - as nobody has suggested an alternative I will continue the status quo and when I get sorted with other things I can add all the files to the STEX & LEX as well with the help of Tyberious

I have a large archive of gmax files and have also found SC4DESC & SC4MODEL files - are these any use or would they all have been accessible via any published content??

What is the best way of getting these files to people who are interested in them??


David

[fantozzi]

I have a large archive of gmax files and have also found SC4DESC & SC4MODEL files - are these any use or would they all have been accessible via any published content??

What is the best way of getting these files to people who are interested in them??


David

My five cents: with Simmer2 and Tyberius you would have two very good counselors regarding the needs of judging, preparing and organizing custom content. The best way is to upload it to the LEX, the file exchange. Maybe (pm with Tarkus) it's possible to make an general team acoount for "Working Man Productions"?

I thing the stuff shouldn't be uploaded all at once and all in one - it's much more work, of course, but also more dedication, to present each piece in a proper way with description and pictures. In the past there where big packs uploaded with almost no info - and mostly tghey become forgotten. If going public nice presentation and proper description is needed. That's where you may need help but just pm one of us.

But first things have to be sorted. This may be the hardest task because there are different approaches that work and very quick you may discuss about matters of taste.

The basic principle of sorting a big bunch of stuff is always the same (it was first described as a relationship between "genus" and "species" by old greek philosopher Aristotle) - you're to find the genus of species and set them as categories to more refine categories.

A basic introducion, I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Avpz-mXU0 But I think the guy misses point to explain how to prove predicates of being a genus-species-relation?

The problem is there are two general approaches - you can sort the stuff thematically or you can sort the stuff technically (and more). And both methods will conflict. For example you make three pots with the themes: residentials, industry, commerce. And you make three other pots with the technical type of data: dependency, bat, lot. Suddenly you will discover that the pots don't work together - the dependency pack could also be in the residential pot or industry pot - where to put it?

These are the basic problems of taxonomy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomy) and always the biggest challenge in organisation. So the questions is to find a fitting taxonomy to organize the SC4 stuff. Which even makes up a great part of many debates about dependencies plugin-folder organisation etc. If this "taxonomy" or "classification" is done things become more easy.

Blablabla ...  ... to summarize - custom content of general interest should be uploaded to one of the two international file exchanges. It should be uploaded with proper description/documentation and in a "easy to use form" and therefore has to be edited/curated and therefore should be sorted, classified first.

Hope this makes sense.     

[Tyberius06]

Hi djp. A huge thanks for keeping Peter's content alive and available for all of these years - docRorlachs work was really lovely 

Thanks Matt,

no problem with hosting Doc's work - as nobody has suggested an alternative I will continue the status quo and when I get sorted with other things I can add all the files to the STEX & LEX as well with the help of Tyberious

I have a large archive of gmax files and have also found SC4DESC & SC4MODEL files - are these any use or would they all have been accessible via any published content??

What is the best way of getting these files to people who are interested in them??


David

Hi David and everybody!

I'm bumping this thread up, because by now I finished my main project for the next NAM, so time to focusing some community work! I was thinking about what should we do, and have some ideas so in short I would like to share them.
- what is on the WMP site could stay as is.
- bringing the wmp/doc contents to the LEX, I would collect all the separate props and buildings (which have also building-as-props version in the DATs) into 2-3 heavy megaprop packs. I spent quite some time to figure it out the different small prop and texture sets coming along with different uploads while I was able to sort thing out for my own back-up collection. But further investigations showed that some of the uploaded contents contain together the LOT, the UI and the model/prop files, but others just lot sets and the corresponding props/models were put into separate packs. If it's not against anybody's will, I would separate the prop/model files from the DAT (best example for this is the WMP Abteibruecke (Cloister Bridge), which contains the bridge and additional props too), and place them to a mega prop pack with all the other model/prop sets. I see the pro and contra opinions, why is somebody supposed to download and install a 50+ mb megaprop pack for just 1 lot. Well the WMP site is still existing and we can link both the new megaprop pack (from LEX) and the separate version from the WMP site and the player can decide. But if lotters (well they are a just about to be extincted species) what to work with it, it's way easier and way easier to link as a dependency than couple of separate prop or textures sets.
Anyway I guess, the LEX admins would be able to create a dedicated custodian WMP account on LEX and all the stuffs can go there
- On the STEX now we have PLEX legacy group, and SC4 Polska legacy group and soon there will be a mixed legacy group for mostly lost far-eastern contents etc... So we can create a separate place for the WMP stuffs. Well partially actually the "tag"s are doing this job pretty well.
- about the gmax files. It depends on the size of them. They could be uploaded to the LEX and STEX as well, or linked to a googledrive/drop box etc... account. But it would be really useful for sure if we have those files.

- Tyberius

[fantozzi]

- bringing the wmp/doc contents to the LEX, I would collect all the separate props and buildings (which have also building-as-props version in the DATs) into 2-3 heavy megaprop packs. I spent quite some time to figure it out the different small prop and texture sets coming along with different uploads while I was able to sort thing out for my own back-up collection. But further investigations showed that some of the uploaded contents contain together the LOT, the UI and the model/prop files, but others just lot sets and the corresponding props/models were put into separate packs. If it's not against anybody's will, I would separate the prop/model files from the DAT (best example for this is the WMP Abteibruecke (Cloister Bridge), which contains the bridge and additional props too), and place them to a mega prop pack with all the other model/prop sets. I see the pro and contra opinions, why is somebody supposed to download and install a 50+ mb megaprop pack for just 1 lot. Well the WMP site is still existing and we can link both the new megaprop pack (from LEX) and the separate version from the WMP site and the player can decide. But if lotters (well they are a just about to be extincted species) what to work with it, it's way easier and way easier to link as a dependency than couple of separate prop or textures sets.

- Tyberius

With WMP props it's the same as with Girafe trees or Simmer2 props. It may take a while but after a few years of playing you'll end up with having all of them in your plugin folder.

To me this is progress as the DocRohrlach's small props was always packed related to his own projects into small packs, sometimes 10, 15 props only - for reuse this is always difficult. One could hope, collected in mega packs the wmp content gets more use amongst lotters.

If you have to sort content for creating  those mega packs, try to make them according to "SC4 topics". Which can be f.e. "rural", "urban streets", "industry", "agriculture", "seaport", "parks". Basically to sort content  the same way Maxis did with the GUI and the structure there.

For me, as a lotter, it's not important if the prop pack is 30 MB or 100 MB - but it's pita if you have to scroll through 100 train cars just to find one tree. So pack with a general SC$ related "theme" are the best to use imo. But you are a lotter too and will know this.

Thank you for all the work you put in our beloved game and to foster the content of passed away members   

[djp]

Hi All,

Apologise for the silence on this matter, I've been happy to continue hosting these sites - so didn't see the need to rock the boat and have the content moved.

However, things are changing at my end and we need to make a decision on the future of the WMP content.
I have just renewed the domain names for another 2 years, so they are not going to disappear overnight.

But, I am in the process of changing my main company websites to WordPress as they all need updating and I do not have the knowledge to do what I need in ASP.
This will mean my current "windows" hosting package will finish in March and the current WMP site is not compatible with my new hosting package.

So, any suggestions on how you (the SC4 community) would like to deal with this??
if somebody has a windows hosting package I could transfer everything over, or could the site be converted to work on WordPress?

I'm open to ideas that either keeps everything in my possession or transfer everything to the community

I currently use ionos for hosting;
https://www.ionos.co.uk/hosting/windows-hosting#packages


Thank you

David

[xxdita]

I have no idea about webhosting or coding, but if necessary, I can get the files sorted and uploaded to the LEX, under whichever account appropriate. Either the original uploader as listed on the WMP site, or a WMP team account can be created for all of it.

Of the 4 uploaders listed on the WMP page, I only know of rivit to still be active. So I'll need his permission before uploading his files to the LEX. I know he's using Google Drive to host some of his files currently.

I'll give Tarkus a chance to weight in, as he may have ideas about hosting and such. But I will begin downloading all available files from WMP to get things started, if it is decided to host the files on the LEX.

I see that the download pages serve as the ReadMe's for each file as well, so I will go ahead and save those too. That will help with proper descriptions for the download pages, and then with a few updates for the links, I can use the same html file as the ReadMe included with each upload.

I do believe that most items should be uploaded to the LEX as they are at WMP. But perhaps it would be better to combine the dependency packs into fewer uploads. This would make them easier to keep track of for anyone using the props or textures in new lot creations, as well as end-users.

[Tyberius06]

to combine the dependency packs into fewer uploads. This would make them easier to keep track of for anyone using the props or textures in new lot creations, as well as end-users.

This was my proposal one year ago (few posts above). I've already organized all of Doc's creations on my end for my own use with a userfriendly folder-system (I think I sent the PM about this over at Simtropolis). Although I don't have the readme's in html format (or not  in every cases), I think I copied those into word/docx files. I also started organizing just the props into possible megapacks (and with that I took out the single props sets which were attached with the uploaded lots), but then I didn't move forward with the project.
Anyway.

- Tyberius

[xxdita]

to combine the dependency packs into fewer uploads. This would make them easier to keep track of for anyone using the props or textures in new lot creations, as well as end-users.

This was my proposal one year ago (few posts above). I've already organized all of Doc's creations on my end for my own use with a userfriendly folder-system (I think I sent the PM about this over at Simtropolis). Although I don't have the readme's in html format (or not  in every cases), I think I copied those into word/docx files. I also started organizing just the props into possible megapacks (and with that I took out the single props sets which were attached with the uploaded lots), but then I didn't move forward with the project.
Anyway.

- Tyberius

I have the time, Tyberius. It will give me the chance to be useful. You already have the whole Polska thing going on. Anyway, it'll give me a chance to play with the dependency tracker.

The most time consuming part would likely be gathering the proper links for the PEG dependencies. 

[catty]

....The most time consuming part would likely be gathering the proper links for the PEG dependencies.

I went thru a fairly lengthy phrase of indexing all the SC4 exchanges, including SimPeg ... when I closed my website down those indexes were transferred over to the Simtropolis Omnibus, the one that probably has most of the PEG stuff in it is this one

https://community.simtropolis.com/omnibus/simcity-4/reference/catalog-index-paa-pzz-draft-only-v1-r403/

Both the simpeg and stex entries for the same plugin are in the index hopefully together but it depends if the name was the same on both sites, also was working on a list of the PLEX files that couldn't be found in the STEX

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/75265-plugins-missing-from-the-stex/