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Author Topic: Need help with Network connecting  (Read 14690 times)

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Offline Golly

Need help with Network connecting
« on: May 06, 2014, 05:53:55 PM »

Hi,

I got to admit I need some help desperately. Having recently upgraded to SC4 Deluxe from the vanilla SC4,
I have noticed there are 'considerable differences' (LOL) to the two versions.

The main difference being that I don't know what the hell is going on, half the time.  ()what()

I'm also having to learn how to use the NAM mod, at the same time, which doesn't make things easier.

But I digress.......here's the question :


Having used the NAM mod to build a Flexible Underpass (2 X 12 Tiles), a guy keeps popping up with this message :




(I'm not even sure if it's connected in some way to the FLUP, but as it's the first time its ever happened,
I'm assuming it is).

When I click the 'connect network' link, I get given this piece, which costs roughly S500.





So :


What is this piece and how do I use it ?


I'm sure this is probably the most familiar object on the planet to the more experienced player, but if you've
got any sympathy for a struggling donkey, I'd be extremely grateful.


Any screenshots of this piece in action would be tremendous !


Thanks.  :)



Offline vester

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Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 06:11:36 PM »
The top of the piepce connect to your EL-rail network. The bottom connects to your underground network.

From the square closes to you (of the piece), in the picture, drag your el-rails.
Drag underground rail network from the square from the other end.

Offline Golly

Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 06:34:22 PM »
The top of the piepce connect to your EL-rail network. The bottom connects to your underground network.

From the square closes to you (of the piece), in the picture, drag your el-rails.
Drag underground rail network from the square from the other end.

Hi, vester, thanks for the reply,

Ah, so it's a connection piece for subway to El-Railway (nothing to do with the FLUP).  Cool !!



So I guess that's what 'Transition' means !!!! One more thing I've learned !!!!

Thanks M8   :thumbsup:


Ooooooh, hold on......... did you mean underground rail, or subway ? I've been assuming they was the same thing.....
(I told you I was a donkey !!!!   ???
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 06:41:00 PM by Golly »

Offline catty

Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 07:03:57 PM »

Quote
Ooooooh, hold on......... did you mean underground rail, or subway ? I've been assuming they was the same thing.....

you are connecting the subway line to it, and yes they are pretty much the same thing as far as the train is concerned
I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" DEATH thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE.

Offline Golly

Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 07:19:29 PM »

Quote
Ooooooh, hold on......... did you mean underground rail, or subway ? I've been assuming they was the same thing.....

you are connecting the subway line to it, and yes they are pretty much the same thing as far as the train is concerned

Thanks, catty.... just got a bit confused. In the UK, we've got a subway system which we call the underground.
Would I be right in assuming that underground rail also includes the Tram system ?

Thanks for your help  :)

Offline APSMS

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Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 08:09:46 PM »
First, a short answer:
Because of the American origins of the game, subway is the same as the underground. Generally speaking, any references to underground rail refer specifically to the only network item in the game that can draw networks under the surface.

Due to the additions in the NAM, some more practical names have been confused with NAM components. Let's define them now by group. All of the rail networks in the same group can travel on any of the others.

Heavy Rail: this carries both Passenger Rail and Freight Rail
Includes: Dual track Rail (DTR), Single track rail (STR), Heavy Rail viaducts (or just rail viaducts, an elevated/above ground version of the heavy rail network), and any other network drawn with the rail tool (shortcut: T)

Light Rail: this carries only passengers
Includes: El-Rail (drawn with the El-Rail tool; shortcut ctrl+T), Subway (shortcut shift+T), Ground Light Rail (a ground-based version of the El-Rail network, drawn with the El-Rail tool). Any mention of tram or subway or light rail refers to this network to help distinguish between it and the heavy rail networks

Monorail: this carries only passengers
Includes: Bullet Train Mod (BTM), High Speed Rail Project (HSRP), and Monorail. Thankfully the monorail options are limited and straightforward; mostly they are texture replacements more than anything.

Advanced note: You may have noticed that there is a FLUP piece for the GLR network (if you have that installed); the FLUPs that you use to connect it are the same as the road FLUPs, and they are found in the road menu. Tram FLUPs can be driven through with UDI, and can have automata pass through them, which is not the case with a subway transition.
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Offline Golly

Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 10:40:53 PM »
First, a short answer:

Phew.... I'm glad I didn't get the long answer !!   :D

Seriously, tho', this is awesome info and has helped tremendously in understanding the differences between networks, visualising zones, and the networks needed to serve them. If only I could find an explanation of the NWM  with the same degree of clarity, I'd die a happy man !!   ;D

Thanks M8  ur a star   :thumbsup:


Offline catty

Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 05:42:03 AM »
First, a short answer:

Phew.... I'm glad I didn't get the long answer !!   :D

Seriously, tho', this is awesome info and has helped tremendously in understanding the differences between networks, visualising zones, and the networks needed to serve them. If only I could find an explanation of the NWM  with the same degree of clarity, I'd die a happy man !!   ;D

Thanks M8  ur a star   :thumbsup:

I also think it deserves a karma point   :thumbsup:
I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" DEATH thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE.

Offline APSMS

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Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2014, 07:18:13 PM »
Seriously, tho', this is awesome info and has helped tremendously in understanding the differences between networks, visualising zones, and the networks needed to serve them. If only I could find an explanation of the NWM  with the same degree of clarity, I'd die a happy man !!   ;D

Thanks M8  ur a star   :thumbsup:

Glad I could help, and thanks for the K point!

Perhaps with the NWM you are over thinking things. It's probably actually less complicated because it only deals with road traffic (pedestrians, cars, etc.), and the terminology is much more formalized (which, in this case, is a good thing). Want another go at it? This post is longer because there's more detail, but hopefully you will notice that it's a lot of repetition and fairly straightforward.

The first thing to remember is that all NWM roads are drawn either with the road tool or the OWR tool, and which tool to use will be obvious. Despite what any NWM network may be called, these two tools are the only ones used.

AVE (Avenue) Networks: These are any roads with a median separating opposing traffic. The base game comes with one Avenue network: The Maxis Ave-4 which you draw with the Avenue tool.
The NWM adds the following: AVE-2, AVE-6.
-The Ave-2 is a one-tile wide network with an impassable median that has the same capacity as road.
-The Ave-6 is a 3-tile wide network, with a very high capacity and smooth integration with the RHW (if you have it; very useful for making AVE-6 overpasses).

TLA (Turning Lane Avenue) Networks: These are basically avenues with a drivable median (Turning-Lane Avenue). They all boast slightly higher capacities than the default networks. None are available without the NAM. The main benefit is that they allow traffic to cross between tiles and go directly to their destination rather than be forced to an intersection to make a U-turn and double back (just like in Real Life).
The NWM adds the following: TLA-3, TLA-5, and TLA-7.
-The TLA-3 is mostly for aesthetic purposes, because the network is only one tile wide and the game doesn't distinguish lane count (it's tile-based instead). The TLA-3 has a capacity that is ~25% more than the games default two-lane Road (RD-2).
-The TLA-5 is a two-tile wide network meant to complement the AVE-4 network. Both can be dragged straight into each other (transitions are automatic) with no width difference, and they share the same TuLEPs (turning lanes in puzzle piece form that are plopped onto intersections for cosmetics and added capacity). The TLA-5 has 25% more capacity than the AVE-4 network, mainly because of the extra middle turning lanes.
-The TLA-7 is a three-tile wide network, meant to complement the AVE-6. These two also share the same footprint, and use the same TuLEPs. The TLA-7 also transitions directly into the RHW-6C, just like AVE-6, again for the same reasons.

RD (Road) Networks: These are basically extensions of the game's default road tool. They are medianless and have similar properties to the Avenue networks, albeit with a more compact look and feel. The game comes with the RD-2, which is drawn with the road tool. For two-tile Road networks, traffic is unable to cross the middle line and must do so instead at intersections, just like the Avenue networks
The NWM adds the RD-4, RD-6, ARD-3, and NRD-4.
-The RD-2 is the basic road network; drawn with the road tool, this is also the basis for all of the other bi-directional NWM networks (AVE, TLA, RD). Simply plop the starter and drag out in whatever direction you want using the road tool.
-The RD-4 is a two-tile-wide 4 lane road; it has the same capacity of the Maxis Avenue (AVE-4), but lacks a median and his wider sidewalks. You can transition between AVE-4 and RD-4 by simply dragging one into the other.
-The RD-6 is a two-tile-wide 6-lane road; it has the same capacity as the TLA-5 (25% more than AVE-4) to reflect the extra lanes.
-The NRD-4 is a one-tile-wide 4-lane road. NRD-4 stands for Narrow Road 4 lanes, and it has the same capacity of a TLA-3 or AVE-2 (25% more than RD-2).
-The ARD-3 is a one-tile-wide 3-lane road, with two lanes in one direction and one-lane going the opposite direction. Useful for simulating passing lanes. Has the same capacity to TLA-3 and NRD-4.

OWR (One-Way Road) Networks: These are straightforward, width extensions of the game's one-way road network. I'm not going explain them too much because there's little variation and it's generally clear what's going on. These must be drawn with the game's default One-Way Road tool (OWR-2), and attention must be paid to the direction that the road is drawn in, as this determines the direction of the road. Also, you must place the starter pieces with the arrows pointing the way you want, or else the road won't work right. The game ships with the OWR-2, a one-tile-wide two-lane one-way road, drawn with the OWR tool.
The NWM adds the following: OWR-1, OWR-3, OWR-4, and OWR-5.
-The OWR-2 is a two-lane one-tile-wide OWR. Draw in the direction of travel, indicated by the arrows.
-The OWR-1 is a one-lane one-tile-wide OWR. This has the same capacity as OWR-2, due to the tile based nature of the game. Mostly for aesthetic purposes.
-The OWR-3 is a three-lane, one-tile wide OWR, which has 25% more capacity than OWR-2. Transitions between them can be done with a simple drag into the end of one with the other.
-The OWR-4 is a four-lane two-tile wide OWR. Much higher capacity than the previous networks. Also boasts relatively wide sidewalks (for downtown promenades).
-The OWR-5 is a five-lane two-tile wide OWR. Functionally equivalent to OWR-4.

Protips: It's worth noting that much of the NWM boasts draggable transitions, which means you simply drag one network into the end of another. Some are unsupported, and not all are listed in the documentation (for surprise purposes?). The good news is that draggable transitions have sidewalks and are easy to build. Be aware that they can deconvert with nearby construction, which will disrupt traffic until you fix them with a simple click.
-All transitions between networks of different widths, save for the one between the AVE-4 and RD-2, must be plopped by hand and can't be dragged.
-All NWM networks can now travel diagonally, but diagonal intersections are unsupported (they don't exist yet). These are being worked on for a future release. Recommendation: if you want to have intersections on your diagonal motorway, use one of the default game networks (for now).

Also, One-Way road networks have higher speeds and greater capacities than roads or avenues due to the unified direction of travel. this makes them useful in game for downtowns/CBDs, and gives them greater purpose in the game.

Whew, that was a lot. But hopefully this explains it a little more plainly, and gives you an idea of what's going on.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 03:11:40 AM by APSMS »
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Offline GDO29Anagram

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Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2014, 09:46:16 PM »
Perhaps with the NWM you are over thinking things. It's probably actually less complicated because it only deals with road traffic (pedestrians, cars, etc.), and the terminology is much more formalized (which, in this case, is a good thing). Want another go at it? This post is longer because there's more detail, but hopefully you will notice that it's a lot of repetition and fairly straightforward.

Some clarification of some information is actually needed here, since some of that information is incorrect:

TLA-3, ARD-3, and NRD-4 have higher capacities than Road, but not AVE-2. The reason for TLA-3 (and all other TLA networks) have higher capacities than their Avenue equivalents is a quirk in their design of their central turn paths. AVE-2 has a capacity equivalent to that of Road; it's not higher than Road.

It's not entirely accurate to call the original Maxis Avenue an AVE-4; that name's more or less reserved for the NWM equivalent of the Maxis Avenue, a proposed network that overcomes certain issues that the original Maxis Avenue has (diagonal Avenues have less capacity than it should have, and has strange wealthification properties).

OWR-4 and OWR-5 have identical capacities. This is due to the same reason that NRD-4 and TLA-3 have identical capacities.

The sidewalk layouts of each network is not so much intended for aesthetic purposes, but more so for emulating their original counterparts; One Way Road never had a grassy strip between its sidewalks and the asphalt, but Avenue does. It's even relatively easy to put the same grassy strip on every network, but it's understandable as to why they aren't (there's either no room or too much room). Therefore, the sidewalk designs of certain networks aren't a feature, but a side effect.

Similarly, under low-density zoning, RD-4 actually has the same sidewalk width as the Avenue network; on the topic of grassy strips, the reason why RD-4 looks larger (or looks like it has a shoulder or bike lane) is to make it take more space; without it, the grassy strip would be too wide. under higher-density zoning, however, RD-4 will have appear to have wider sidewalks.
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Offline APSMS

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Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2014, 10:24:38 PM »
I seem to have misread before. Post updated to reflect corrections, and to include the ARD-3 (which I forgot about!).

The comments about the sidewalks is mainly for suggestions of possible uses. It should be apparent that the width of sidewalks has little effect on their function, and merely a way to utilize the game's faults.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 10:35:00 PM by APSMS »
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Offline Tarkus

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Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2014, 02:37:10 AM »
One other little caveat.  The AVE-6 and TLA-7 actually have the same capacity.  The crossover paths that allow traffic to move between the outer and inner tiles on the AVE-6 are enough to activate the capacity boost.

-Alex

Offline APSMS

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Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2014, 03:17:58 AM »
It would appear that I'm a bit rusty. I did most of that post from memory, and obviously it shows. I remember reading all of the stuff you mention before (except for the AVE-4 bit, that was new; is this being planned or just a conceptual reservation, like RHW-10C?). I should have remembered the bit about the crossover paths though. :-[

Changed the post to reflect this.
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Offline catty

Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2014, 05:46:38 AM »

Hi Guys

A second karma point this time for GDO29Anagram   &apls

I'm also going to sticky the topic as I think it has quite useful information in it

 :thumbsup:
I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" DEATH thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE.

Offline GDO29Anagram

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Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2014, 06:29:33 AM »
A second karma point this time for GDO29Anagram

I'm also going to sticky the topic as I think it has quite useful information in it

The KP is well appreciated, thank you. :thumbsup:

(except for the AVE-4 bit, that was new; is this being planned or just a conceptual reservation, like RHW-10C?).

There was a small mention of an NWM-based AVE-4 brought up in the NWM dev/support thread. It was rather short-lived (but not so much in private discussions), but I've since taken it seriously, to the point where I not only clarify the disadvantages of the original Avenue network, but also carefully word my sentences to avoid confusing it with what's a theoretical network. Since there's not much going on with the NWM for such a long time, it's hard to say if such a plan would go forward later on. (That same idea also brought up a side-idea of converting the Avenue network to an RD-4, which would also work.)

Also, since very few people know of either, it's all-too-common that AVE-4 and Avenue are considered synonymous; even several puzzle pieces in the NAM call the Avenue an AVE-4, FAAVE-4 being a notable example, even though the proper name should just be FAAVE or FAAVE-3 (similar to FAR-3 and FAR-2; the number actually doesn't count up lanes, but instead helps identify the angle).

My mindset with calling Road Road, One Way Road One Way Road, and Avenue Avenue is that not everyone uses the NWM. By omitting numbers that would count the total number of lanes, I remain neutral to those NWM users and non-NWM users and, had the NWM User's Manual been updated, draw very clear comparisons between the NWM and the original Maxis networks with their original names (the one exception being MHW).
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Offline memo

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Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2014, 01:26:08 PM »
but I've since taken it seriously, to the point where I not only clarify the disadvantages of the original Avenue network

I might have said it before, but I don't actually think that the Avenue sidewalk behaviour you mention is purely disadvantageous. The big advantage is that it makes for uniform Avenue medians. Imagine for example a stretch of Avenue with development only on one side. The median props would appear only on every other tile. Or imagine industrial zones on one, commercial zones on the other side. Or, perhaps more common, different wealth types on either side of the Avenue. It would result in alternating median props of different wealth types. Then there's also the case of different densities, which could result in a median that is half grass, half pavement.

Offline Golly

Re: Need help with Network connecting
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2014, 04:51:35 PM »
Hi,

I'd like to thank everybody who has contributed to this post, and taken the time and trouble to help a noob, although I probably need more gameplay time in order to put all this info into practice.  :D

(Once I've done something once, I know how to do it.... the hard bit is doing it for the first time !  ()what()  ).

Many thanks for your help and patience,

Ur ALL stars !!   :thumbsup:   :)