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Author Topic: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod  (Read 16143 times)

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Offline JoeST

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2013, 09:44:54 AM »
that is one snazzy tool, thanks very much Alex :D
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Offline GDO29Anagram

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2013, 10:00:42 AM »
The advantage of this is that there is no longer any need to create additional lots for different heights - if one needs to create a embankment that is 8m high for Buddybud's underpasses, for example, he can use 7.5m + 0.5m lot.

If one needs the 10m embankment to allow avenue tunnelling, simply plop the 5m piece twice

That's actually a disadvantage in itself, by the looks of it; It would be too much work to create an embankment this way and could be counterproductive.

This has been discussed amongst several NAM Team Members, and mentioned by Markus and Maarten up top, and the height levels needed are the following: 7.5, 8, 10, 12, 14, 15, 15.5, 22.5, 24, and 30. This is to match up with three things: The height levels of the Multi-Height System, the height levels needed to match the tunnel caps of the default networks, and the height level of the Elevated Rail and Viaduct Rail networks.

Creating the additional 10 lots (and I mean both up and down) is a one-time sacrifice for the modder, whereas just having 10 wonky height levels would make building an embankment two or three or even six times as long, and every user has to do that (and we're talking thousands of users).

MY two cents on the matter.
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Offline Reform

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2013, 10:30:14 AM »
That's actually a disadvantage in itself, by the looks of it; It would be too much work to create an embankment this way and could be counterproductive.

I agree. I don't see any reason to use several diggin/raising lots for embankments. Doing large projects is already time (and wrist) consuming as it is.

However, these lots are used for general terraforming as well, and that is why I requested the 5m diggin/raising height. It is a good working height for both inner city networks and rural hills, when you are planning your tiles like topographic maps, as I do. Creating a 15m bridges and embankments are easy, when you only have to count 3 levels down or up to get the correct height.

Of course I can work with whatever heights are created, and Rivit's lots still exist to support my playing style.  :)

Offline teddyrised

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2013, 11:02:39 AM »
That's actually a disadvantage in itself, by the looks of it; It would be too much work to create an embankment this way and could be counterproductive.

This has been discussed amongst several NAM Team Members, and mentioned by Markus and Maarten up top, and the height levels needed are the following: 7.5, 8, 10, 12, 14, 15, 15.5, 22.5, 24, and 30. This is to match up with three things: The height levels of the Multi-Height System, the height levels needed to match the tunnel caps of the default networks, and the height level of the Elevated Rail and Viaduct Rail networks.

Creating the additional 10 lots (and I mean both up and down) is a one-time sacrifice for the modder, whereas just having 10 wonky height levels would make building an embankment two or three or even six times as long, and every user has to do that (and we're talking thousands of users).

MY two cents on the matter.
I kindly disagree with the choice of words for describing height levels - "wonky" isn't exactly what I have in mind.

I think the way I see it is that for creating long, wide or huge embankments, I typically use singly-plopped road tiles, so the raiser lots are just a one-time use in most cases (unless I accidentally level the embankment).

But your point does make sense, too. It really depends on people's way of creating embankments.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 04:22:19 PM by teddyrised »

Offline Haljackey

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2013, 04:11:54 PM »
First of all, very nice discovery/work Alex! I agree with everyone that this will be an extremely useful mod for many aspects of the game!

Very nice.
Does it work under water?

I thought about this, and underwater compatibility would be a huge plus. It will help in the construction of ports and riverbeds.

Offline sim_link

Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2013, 07:58:25 PM »
Amazing discovery, this will definitely speed up construction time for interchanges. Your work continue to amaze! ;D

Offline xannepan

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2013, 11:31:36 AM »
Does anybody know Shadow Assasin is still around? I'd like permission to re-use the lots/icons etc NHP created and upgrade the functionallity.

Online Girafe

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2013, 11:33:12 AM »
Does anybody know Shadow Assasin is still around? I'd like permission to re-use the lots/icons etc NHP created and upgrade the functionallity.

Of course he is, he checkes the forum often (surely every day) :)
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Offline dragonshardz

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2013, 02:41:09 PM »
This looks like a much-appreciated upgrade in functionality!

Offline xannepan

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2013, 02:12:29 AM »
I just got SA's permission to use his icons and lots as basis for the new hole digger and raiser lots.
Since the BSC lex is down already for a few days I'm posting a link here were you can download for testing.

What I am particularly interested in is if the heights (lowering and raising) are appropriately calibrated and that there is no difference between PCs. Can you please post your feedback? (Installation instructions are included, but in fact very simple: just replace the Original hole digger lots with these lots... don't forget to make a backup of the originals).
By the way: all requested heights are included from 7.5 to 30m

https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/7f6b77405ed0566e165bdbe5f925ce6120130123080454/9f7a717ffe40fc1f0e98c9f9d6194c1e20130123080454/c0bdb9

As I have mentioned in a PM to Shadow Assasin already: I'd be happy to 'transfer' these to the NAM team for release, if you think that would be beneficial in some way. If not then I'm equally happy to release these myself after I get some feedback :)

-Alex

Offline GDO29Anagram

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2013, 02:58:41 AM »
First things first: If you are not careful, you will end up destroying everything within a 3x3 tile area from the lot. Additionally, if you aim correctly, you will be able to use these lots in the water.

The former should be emphasised, due to its potentially destructive nature.

Additionally, you cannot place them one at a time in a line; If you have to place a line of these, you have to space them out one tile apart. If not, you'll end up double-lifting the ground.

Since this will all be integrated into the NAM (yes, we also had to cut back on our zero-lot policy, simply because HDR/HDGL lots are too essential to have separate from the NAM), it'll be well-documented.

That is all I have to say, based on just 5 minutes of testing. They're only a bit more volatile than traditional HD/GL lots

EDIT: Another five minutes of testing shows that both the 7.5 and 15.5 lifters are pretty much dead-on, and I can imagine that it's the same with the traditional 15m lifter.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 03:11:33 AM by GDO29Anagram »
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Offline xannepan

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2013, 03:29:18 AM »
Good points. I can change the behavior fairly easy to enable placing them 1 tile apart. (In that case the first lot you plop won't raise a square area, but only  a single edge of the square. Plopping the second lot directly next to it will then complete a squared raised area. That will enable placing them one at a time in a line without spacing them one tile apart. (will take me 2 minutes of work)

Careful also with rotating the lots, in fact don't rotate before plopping. If you do there is a tile difference between the position where you plop and where the terrain is raised/lowered. I am clueless as to what is causing that....

About the destructive nature. I think once you dragged roads though the current hole digger/raiser lots, you get the same level of destructiveness. Destructiveness is simply caused by lowering or raising the terrain (I have disabled the destructiveness in the effect dir). But fair enough: the destructiveness of my version is immediate :) so indeed appears more volatile :)

Something different now: I remember reading somewhere that puzzle pieces also need an effectdir part. I have no clue what that effect dir actually does for a puzzle piece. But it got me thinking: since my raiser/digger lots are also effect based, wouldn't it be possible to place them simply as a "puzzle piece" where the height level is selected with the TAB key? (Obviously it will not be a network puzzle piece, only the effect would be placed intead of a network piece)...



 


Offline GDO29Anagram

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2013, 04:08:22 AM »


Further tests show that this is how far the "destruction range" is, for my end at least. (Doesn't help if I'm the first one testing, or the only one.)
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Offline memo

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2013, 04:32:08 AM »
Something different now: I remember reading somewhere that puzzle pieces also need an effectdir part. I have no clue what that effect dir actually does for a puzzle piece. But it got me thinking: since my raiser/digger lots are also effect based, wouldn't it be possible to place them simply as a "puzzle piece" where the height level is selected with the TAB key? (Obviously it will not be a network puzzle piece, only the effect would be placed intead of a network piece)...

The Effect Directories used for puzzle pieces are merely for displaying the preview models before placing a puzzle piece (blue normally and red if the puzzle piece cannot be placed). However, since the effect is simply attached via a LotConfigProperty, it can be attached to any NetworkTile via T21 Exemplars. I've attached such a file (-7.5m) for the GLR straight puzzle piece for testing purposes.

Using puzzle pieces for this has another two advantages: It is faster as no Lot has to be demolished and no demolishing cloud effects are displayed.

(I have disabled the destructiveness in the effect dir).

Do you mean by this that the destructive nature can be turned off? I think this could be helpful.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 04:35:35 AM by memo »

Offline xannepan

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2013, 05:01:45 AM »


Further tests show that this is how far the "destruction range" is, for my end at least. (Doesn't help if I'm the first one testing, or the only one.)

 ???  ??? That is strange......  I was fairly sure I turned off the destructive nature of the effect....  let me check what's going on....

Offline xannepan

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2013, 06:28:46 AM »
Turns out the problem is in the brush the effect dir refers to. Easy to solve, just need to recalibrate all height levels now.
Destruction will now be limited to a 3x3 tile area with the raised/lowered tile in the center. Desctruvtion is a consequence of raising the terrain, not of the lot itself. Same happens is you use any of the terrain brushes (god or mayor mode).

For now hold on with testing until I have got this solved...

Memo: I had a quick look at your puzzle piece approach. It works great. I am no expert in puzzle pieces at all... but I guess it would be possible to create a set of "dummy/blank" puzzle pieces which can be grouped together for cycling through with the TAB key with T21 references to the different effect exemplars. I can make 3d preview models for height indicators.

Could it be we could make this dragabble??

Thanks guys!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 06:44:12 AM by xannepan »

Offline xannepan

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2013, 09:27:13 AM »
https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/be8e2c1cbc318a43cece52dafd07978c20130123145541/12e9c5

Here is the link to the updated raiser and digger lots. 'Destructiveness' should now be limited to the 3x3 tile area that is raised or lowered.

Shadow Assasin told me he planned to include and updated version in the next NAM release. As mentioned before I'd be happy to transfer this to the NAM team.

Who makes the decision :) ?

I am available for suggestions on how to improve in the mean time.

Cheers,
-Alex

Offline noahclem

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2013, 11:09:03 AM »
I can confirm the newer version works for me with destruction limited to the 3x3 tile area. Nice work  :thumbsup:

Offline memo

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2013, 12:21:08 PM »
[…]but I guess it would be possible to create a set of "dummy/blank" puzzle pieces which can be grouped together for cycling through with the TAB key with T21 references to the different effect exemplars.

Yes, that is definitely possible. And not much work at all.

Could it be we could make this dragabble??

I tried this too, but – apart from an amusing domino effect destroying all roads of a city – I could not achieve anything satisfactory in this respect.


Do you think, instead of referencing the terrain brushes, you could use the same effect that was used for the conventional digger/raiser TE-Lots?

Who makes the decision :) ?

You do. ;) Though, if you are aiming for the puzzle piece approach, it is inevitable to include them in the NAM, which would be most welcome.

Offline xannepan

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Re: No more Hole Digger and Raiser Lots need with this mod
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2013, 12:34:10 PM »
All right...looks like we'll be going for the puzzle piece approach and inclusion in the NAM then!
I don't know how to make puzzle pieces myself though.. so I have to rely on you or other NAM team members to make it so...

As for the coventional differ/raiser lots, I have no clue how they work.. I will look into it a bit and if I do find out it may be possible I'll get back to it.

The domino must have been amusing indeed  ;D

One thing I forgot to mention; the current lots also work under water... I have't come up with a purpose yet, but maybe someone will find that useful. Not sure if that can be done with puzzle pieces....
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 01:21:37 PM by xannepan »