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Author Topic: NAM Request: Larger roundabout  (Read 20308 times)

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Offline xannepan

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2011, 12:28:02 AM »
Thanks for the great number of responses guys! I understand perfectly the NAM mod team is very busy with many other great and much desired features. So i can be patient :). I do want to repeat that for any potential textures i am willing to help out, but since it is not clesr to me exactly which textures will be needed i need some specific specs to ge me going. So, if anyone is ready and willing to pick thisnup, just send me a PM, and if i am not dealing with RL at the tme i will help out!

Alex

Offline strucka

Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2011, 03:24:21 AM »
Here is Rondo Tomačevo on the edge of Ljubljana, connecting the Štajerska avenue (NRHW-4), Titova avenue (AVE-4) and the H3 motorway (RHW-4).
It has been rebuilt last year, as the construction of the Titova cesta begun, because of the massive congestions it used to make.

Here is Before:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=46.080915,14.528266&spn=0.003033,0.006968&t=k&z=18

And here is the After picture:


Offline MandelSoft

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2011, 04:29:48 AM »
Part of the thing is that while I believe expanded roundabout functionality would be somewhat useful, it isn't something that would be enough for me to drop what I'm doing with the RHW.

-Alex

Multi-Level System will be a great addition when it is finished but I think it can happen without your help. NAM Those who have participated in building and designing ERHW-4 and ERHW-6 is supposed to have gained the necessary experience to cope without you in there. At least I think so too as an observer, but I do not monitor the operation and capabilities of each of your team and you know best.

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I believe Alex did design the ERHW-4 and ERHW-6S/C...
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Offline jdenm8

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2011, 04:47:15 AM »
Actually, Tarkus (Alex :P ) and Swamper<number><number> (Can't remember them sorry :( ) designed most of ERHW-4, while ERHW-6S and ERHW-6C were prototypes developed individually ages ago. I believe Blue Lightning started them both at different stages.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 06:59:41 PM by jdenm8 »


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Offline jacksunny

Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2011, 07:17:35 AM »
Swamper77?

Offline Tarkus

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2011, 12:14:33 PM »
Swamper77?

^Yes.  He and I did the ERHW-4 and EMIS for Version 3.0--he took care of the modeling and some pathing, and I did the RULs.  The ERHW-6S/6C were started by Blue Lightning, though I helped finish them, getting support for overpasses over wider ground RHWs and GLR in place, as well as FlexSPUI support.  The ERHW-2 has basically been a solo project of mine.

Alex, thanks for the offer to take on textures--that makes the project a good bit more feasible.  I think once we're done with this release cycle, we'll have more time to help figure out design logistics.

-Alex

Offline Blue Lightning

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2011, 04:01:12 PM »
Quote
IndRULs have a 5x5 tile limit as far as efficacy goes.  One theoretically could go larger, and there are some ways to kind of fudge things with Tile Verifiers in the Network INI (something that no NAMite deals with on a regular basis) and RUL2 (which operates on a smaller scale), but it could get . . . interesting (there's that word again) . . . trying to get things really stable.  There's also the matter of underlying network tile layout.  Going fully puzzle-piece eliminates some of those issues at least initially, but as the functionality expands, that can pose a whole new set of issues when you have TAB Rings stacked to the brim with pieces.

I can easily handle larger than 5x5 setups with a little INRUL modularity (4 quadrants?), and I've got a good grasp on the INI verifiers (they are based off of the INRULs (positioning) and RUL1/2 (IID, rot, flip)). :)

(In fact, we can retool some of our RUL2 prevent code into INI verifiers, ie the MIS Y splitters)


EDIT: Oh hello 2nd page, didn't notice you existed before I posted. :P
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 04:03:21 PM by Blue Lightning »
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Offline Tarkus

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2011, 04:07:33 PM »
I've got a good grasp on the INI verifiers (they are based off of the INRULs (positioning) and RUL1/2 (IID, rot, flip)). :)

[Mr. Burns]Excellent![/Mr. Burns].  I've been meaning to learn those puppies at some point.  The modular quadrant approach would definitely be the way to go for something larger. 

That said, I think a 3-laner would probably make sense at 5x5, as a triple-tile NWM network could neatly connect into the middle.

-Alex

Offline pimmapman

Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2011, 07:51:24 PM »
The current size would also work with the two tile triple tile networks, with the filler that psander5 created, only it would be functional. But yeah, 5x5 roundabouts would be awesome.

Offline Korot

Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2011, 02:46:17 AM »
And how would you hook them up, pimmapman? It won't be nice and symmetrical, since the centre tile of the three-tile network, can't hook up to both centre tiles of the Roundabout. You need a roundabout with an odd width to do that, such as 5x5.

Regards,
Korot

Offline pimmapman

Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2011, 10:09:25 PM »
Sorry I meant triple lane networks like the mave6 and owr3, although I do think that the 5x5 would be much better.

Offline strucka

Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2011, 03:52:53 AM »
Maybe we should also think about larger roundabouts. I mean if you want a roundabout to take on traffic from 6laners, you need a bigger diameter. How about a set of 3 or 4 lane roundabout at 9x9 an 8x8 tiles in size? I know its a lot of space, but it sure is alot more realistic than the ones we have now. I mean  can anyone show such a small roundabout on any avenue? I bet no one can, cause they just wouldn't be functional.
So all in favor of BIGger roundabouts say I!

I!

Offline jdenm8

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2011, 06:17:59 AM »
I think 3 lanes would be more than enough. IMO, if an intersection was going to involve anything larger than three lanes wide around the entire circumference, it should be a standard controlled intersection with traffic lights. Roundabouts just shouldn't carry that kind of traffic.

BTW, here's probably the best RL analogue I know of for the existing 4x4 roundabout.
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.627165,152.759751&z=19&t=k&nmd=20110723
(Scroll to the bottom, click "Take me to Map")
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 08:58:51 AM by jdenm8 »


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Offline MandelSoft

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2011, 06:39:13 AM »
^^ Or you need a traffic light controlled roundabout. We have some around here in the Netherlands:
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=52.054078,4.519869&spn=0.000002,0.003484&t=h&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=52.054078,4.519869&panoid=dVKr873A3LfExjg2eJa5cA&cbp=12,210.02,,0,7.94

But you can always create a "Turboplein"  $%Grinno$%
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=52.001,4.451834&spn=0.001379,0.003484&t=k&z=19&vpsrc=6

But I think all these stoplights actually breaks down the purpose of the roundabout...

Best,
Maarten
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Offline noahclem

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2011, 06:58:50 AM »
I'll say "I" (not sure if that's the correct spelling) to larger roundabouts, though I think 3 lanes is plenty and 8x8 or 9x9 sounds like possibly an unrealistically large amount of work to create--especially considering all of the work required to be able to connect 1, 2, and 3 tile networks of multiple types and widths, as well as diagonals.

At the moment I only use avenue roundabouts with diagonal avenues because the middle looks larger to the entering avenues comparatively that way. For that same reason I think 5x5 might be a bit small for 3-tile networks.

No easy solutions or answers to this one  &mmm

Offline jdenm8

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2011, 07:16:27 AM »
Though, 'upgrading' to traffic light controlled roundabouts can exacerbate the problems. (Airport Drive roundabout in Brisbane, Google it and you'll find out why it's been upgraded to a Volleyball/SPUI derivative thing).
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.411938,153.077279&z=18&t=k&nmd=20091015
compared to
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.412243,153.077263&z=19&t=k&nmd=20110708

(BTW, if it asks you to register, scroll down and click "Take me to the Map")


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Offline MandelSoft

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2011, 09:30:48 AM »
^^ Nice you can see shots of the interchange conversion over time...
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Offline jdenm8

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2011, 04:52:15 PM »
Yeah, NearMap does a damn good job of beating the crap out of the horrible, outdated and slow (in more ways than one) Google Maps. Well, here in Aus anyway.


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Offline j-dub

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2011, 10:55:11 PM »
Not to get OT, but now I finally have seen a real European TLA Road, faded, but still visible. Jdenm8. Volleyballs are all fine and well, but a more advanced build like that, I just don't know when such a setup like that would exist for this game.

Offline jdenm8

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Re: NAM Request: Larger roundabout
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2011, 11:15:02 PM »
I wasn't requesting it ( :P ), I was merely showing an example of what happens instead of making a Roundabout larger than three lanes. As that intersection was upgraded to Five lanes coming into the intersection, you'd probably need at least four all the way around, which just doesn't work.
I don't know about other parts of the world, but Australia has some complicated Roundabout laws according to what lane you enter the roundabout in.
(Also, it's just a trumped-up and stretched SPUI. Unlike other parts of the world, we tend to stick traffic islands where you're not meant to drive. Like here: http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.885458,153.315513&z=19&t=k&nmd=20110721 )

EDIT:
Oh look, another 4x4 Avenue Roundabout :P
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.857994,153.307809&z=19&t=k&nmd=20110721
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 11:16:36 PM by jdenm8 »


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