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SAM - Street Addon Mod

Started by jplumbley, June 25, 2007, 11:05:11 AM

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Andreas

Having compiled some network textures myself, I have to agree that it would be quite a tedious adventure. Frimi was able to build a basic Euro Road Textues Mod in about two weeks, but he was working like 24/7 on it, generating about 7500 (!) FSH files - and that was just the basic set (Maxis and some NAM stuff). The full ERTM has more than 10000 files, I think - this means about 2000 different textures that have to be processed - of the files that are available now, not counting any new stuff that will be released in the future...
Andreas

deathtopumpkins

Quote from: jplumbley on October 20, 2008, 07:31:36 PM
It would probably take you as long to make the "Road"AM as it would for us to get some sort of Alpha Released... Maybe even longer...  NWM may not be as far away as you might think it is.
You've got a point there... I guess that's probably true.

Diggis: But hasn't someone made SAM "stoppers?" I believe I saw somewhere lots or something that converted streets back to the default textures. Couldn't something like this be possible for roads?
And oh yes, I know how long it would take. This isn't rhe first time I've retextured a whole network... (though not one as extensive as roads).
So I'll talk to un1 and see if he still wants to go ahead with it.

Andreas: OK, you got me there! That is a LOT of textures... So multiply it a couple times, and add in SAM intersections, and you've got probably at least 10000 textures. And I wouldn't be able to work on it that much either, so it looks like this is not gonna happen any time soon.
NAM Team Member | 3RR Collaborater | Virgin Shores

j-dub

Well then if what Diggis said is the case, what makes a RAM any different from the NWM road based networks. How come either using end pieces, or starter pieces on both ends to prevent the variation wouldn't work? With SAM, I just carefully position another starter piece the other direction, so the same street has two variations. I didn't see the need for the SAM stopper lots.

deathtopumpkins

Quote from: j-dub on October 21, 2008, 05:36:53 PM
Well then if what Diggis said is the case, what makes a RAM any different from the NWM road based networks. How come either using end pieces, or starter pieces on both ends to prevent the variation wouldn't work? With SAM, I just carefully position another starter piece the other direction, so the same street has two variations. I didn't see the need for the SAM stopper lots.
That should work too, though I wasn't sure if those starter pieces allowed traffic through them? I usually just converted to a road briefly to switch...

Anyway, after talking with un1, we have decided that this project will not be our primary priority, and will not be done in the foreseeable future. We may still consider it a little ways down, but for right now we've moved on to other things. Some of you NAM Team members should already know what I'm talking about.  ;)
NAM Team Member | 3RR Collaborater | Virgin Shores

j-dub

Well, I don't know if its a simulator thing, but they pass through on mine. In my case some areas have to keep the starter pieces, because they can't stretch long enough with out it.

deathtopumpkins

Quote from: j-dub on October 21, 2008, 05:49:53 PM
Well, I don't know if its a simulator thing, but they pass through on mine. In my case some areas have to keep the starter pieces, because they can't stretch long enough with out it.
Then I guess it does work.. I'll have to try it.
And in that case I bulldoze the first tile so that little stub of road is left, as it acts as the starter, and drag over it.
NAM Team Member | 3RR Collaborater | Virgin Shores

jplumbley

Quote from: un1 on October 21, 2008, 03:45:24 PM
Hello you three. I think I will just ask you in PM's instead of posting in the SAM thread again.

Is a highway version of the SAM interfere with anything or will it be difficult?

Thanks,
-un1

Hello Un1,

SAM is a special "beast"...  It is possible to apply the work and theories of SAM to other networks and actually quite easily but there are limitation of the mod that make it less inviting.  A "SAM" of a large scale network for that of Highways, Avenues and the mass transit networks would suffer these limitation to a greater extent than the Street Network.

The biggest drawback of SAM is it is very difficult to the extent of virtually impossible to have multiple variations of the same network intersecting each other.  It is possible to an extent but not the most stable thing to work with and only the most skilled RULers would be able to accomplish such a feat.  Alex and I had the worst troubles with networks that have 2-tiles such as TLA-5 (those intersections were rediculous to RUL).

Why cant multiple variations intersect?

I has to do with the way the RULs work, they override the base network (in SAM it is the Street Network).  When there are two "variations" they are essentially conflicting RULs since they are the exact same RUL just a different end result.  This means they will fight with each other for "real estate" and one of them will win and override the other one in the end.

So, why is this issue more evident in larger scale networks?

Well, with Streets it is "easy" to isolate one variation from another.  With other networks they are intended in many cases to travel longer distances and the "want" for them to intersect with another variation is much higher and much more likely but would not really be feasible on such a scale.

RHW...  Is a mod that is in essence a replacement for the Highway Tool with something much more flexible.  What may be a possibility in the future is complete redevelopement by someone to make two "new" 2-tile networks to replace the El and Ground Highways.  The only problem with this is that these two networks are not "lot friendly" and will not allow growth along their edges.  Now, the "SAM" technology has been greatly expanded by us to instead of allow fleibility in "texture variations" but highway widths and the MIS and the way we have been required to do it has made it not very feasible to add variations.

With RHW what is recommended will be texture variations being released as a custom replacement of the entire set.  There are other options for things such as T21 Props for El-RHW systems that might be feasible for creators to make new models easily and traditionally for the RHW and MDists could mix and match their favorite pylon with their favorite road deck but have the same RHW texture.

I am going to copy this PM into the SAM Thread because it is a good question and the answer as to why it is not in the works.  Thank you for your interest, I definately appreciate the interest and like when people send questions by PM such as this.

JPlumbley
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Street Addon Mod - SAM

nerdly_dood

Would it be possible to make a SAM-type puzzle piece drag setup so that when you start with a "base network" such as street, and intersect it with another one such as road or OWR or avenue, the other one changes to a more beefed-up version of the street texture, as well as the street changing? (as in, wider, double-yellow line or white dashed line... but matching the street one as far as pavement material goes))
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jplumbley

Quote from: nerdly_dood on October 21, 2008, 07:02:37 PM
Would it be possible to make a SAM-type puzzle piece drag setup so that when you start with a "base network" such as street, and intersect it with another one such as road or OWR or avenue, the other one changes to a more beefed-up version of the street texture, as well as the street changing? (as in, wider, double-yellow line or white dashed line... but matching the street one as far as pavement material goes))

Im a bit confused as to your question its not 100% clear to me.

What ever the network tool you are using the tile has the properties of that specific network.  You cannot define that texture variation A has a different capacity, speed, etc than texture B.

IF you are asking about are asking about simply the SAM/Road intersection textures... Yes it is possible to replace the texture included in the SAM to look a little more flashy but Im not entirely sure what you are asking for.

IF you are asking about a SAM-like "RoadAM" for different paint stripes etc, yes it is possible, but like I said in the PM to Un1 (posted in my previous post) these are much more difficult to "contain" and can cause a good chunk of headaches.  Streets are the easiest network to work with for a "variation" mod such as SAM.  Also other issues that will occur will be conflicts with the NWM for the Road network in the furture.
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Street Addon Mod - SAM

bwatterud

#1049
I think he's asking if the overrides started by a SAM puzzle piece on a street could carry over into other networks.  So, for example if you started a gravel SAM street, would it be possible to have roads dragged off of the street have a non-default texture as well? 

Tarkus

Quote from: bwatterud on October 21, 2008, 11:08:42 PM
I think he's asking if the overrides started by a SAM puzzle piece on a street could carry over into other networks.  So, for example if you started a gravel SAM street, would it be possible to have roads dragged off of the street have a non-default texture as well? 

Well, if you were to do that, it'd make it impossible to have normal Maxis roads intersect Gravel SAM streets. They'd all get changed.

-Alex (Tarkus)

justatest

Has anybody else noticed a worse behaviour of SAM v3 together with the latest NAM (January 2009)?
When drawing short SAM streets (only one grid box long), the end section texture of the street is rotated. This is the case for all textures (parking lot, Tolca dirt road, brick street, ...).

Is it just me or has there been some changes to the rule file of the NAM? I have still the old NAM (April 2008) in a backup folder. If I revert to this, everything works as intended.

Diggis

Did you redownload the SAM?  There is a fix for this attached to a post in this thread I believe.  Otherwise I will try and take a look this weekend.

justatest

I used to same SAM folder for the new NAM as for the old NAM of April 2008. However, I did not install the fix "z-SAM-2-TextureFix-05302008.dat" at that time, just the fix "SAM - 3 - Rail Textures.dat".

I tried today with all fixes I could find for version 3.
Unfortunately I still have the same problem with e.g. textures 1 and 9 (especially with no. 9), which seem not to be covered by the above mentioned fixes. The end pieces are flipping,if the road is just one grid segment long.
And I could not see this problem with the NAM April 2008.

Thanks for helping, Diggis.

(BTW, I will have no internet access until next friday, but if you have another suggestion what to try, I can do it then)

Dexist

how do i instal this one??

i dont see any install file unzipped

Nique

Hi,

Is this kinda project also possible for normal roads? (bike lanes ;) )
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Swamper77

Given the complexity of the Road network RULs, making a SAM-like mod for roads would be a RUL nightmare and very hard to implement. For adding bike lanes to roads, you're best off modifying the game's T21 exemplars to place a prop of the bike lane onto them.

-Swamper
You can call me Jan, if you want to.
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simzebu

I have a question, which I've been meaning to ask for a while but never gotten around to.

Anyway, is it possible to "swap" a SAM texture with the default texture? For example, the street I drag will be asphalt, until I use a starter piece to switch it to the original concrete? If so, how would this be done? Could I do it myself?

The reason I ask is, I use the asphalt streets almost constantly. With the exception of industrial, very high-wealth, and a few rural areas, I almost never use anything else. I still want to be able to use the other variations, but just have it be asphalt by default.

Thanks for your help!
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Andreas

Well, what you could do is making a copy of the Maxis street textures and give them the IDs the SAM asphalt textures have. Then change the IDs of the asphalt textures to the Maxis IDs. Obviously, you would also have to check if there are street textures that are not covered by the SAM; i. e. you'd have to modify all NAM textures that involve street intersections as well.
Andreas

Diggis

Quote from: Andreas on January 30, 2009, 02:14:32 PM
you would also have to check if there are street textures that are not covered by the SAM;

How dare you suggest I haven't covered everything!  &hlp  hehe, I think most of them are there, but there are a few of the diagonal textures that may not be done. 

What you are proposing Simzebu is a fair amount of work, but pretty simple, just mindnumbingly dull.  I will check my files and see if I have any original textures extracted, but I think I have edited them all.  I can send you the textures for the asphalt streets.  I would be very interested in this personally as I also use the asphalt streets more than the others.