Help Making Farms

[cogeo]

Hi all,

I've been looking at farms (I-R) lots and buildings lately, trying to make my own. I have figured out some features (pls correct me if I'm wrong) and I have a few questions:

- There are two types of I-R lots and buildings, the "main" lot/building, looking from the modding point of view pretty much like the other I lots and buildings (except that they are I-R, not I-D/M/HT) and the so-called "farm-fields".
- These appear not to be really growable. Likely they just fill the rest of the zoned farm area when the "main" lot (the "real" growable) grows - the "Field Lots" property specifies the farm-field lots that may be selected for the specific main I-R lot. So they are just "decorative", and in quite a few ways: the Growth Stage is 0xFF, they appear not to employ any sims, not to consume power or water and to not pay any taxes (no "Building Value" property).

So the question is, why should someone zone a large farm zone instead of more smaller ones? You won't get more jobs or taxes, only more pollution. Not sure about power consumption, but in SC4 even empty zones do consume some power, so they may actually still need additional power. That is you will actually get more negative effects with nothing in return.

Has anybody experimented with adding jobs to farm fields? Also would adding, say, one or two I-R jobs or some taxes per tile be a "cheat" or in any way "against the rules"? I think the player should get some "compensation" for the space taken up and the pollution.

Is there some way to make real ploppable farms? I guess it would be possible to make the "main" lot ploppable, just like the other I- types (providing I-R jobs, satisfying I-R demand and paying taxes), and furthermore make the lot larger and use the same props and textures as the growable farm fields in the extra tiles, but would it be possible to make a variable-size lot, maybe using a special plopping technique, say plopping the main lot on top of a zoned farm area?

I would greatly appreciate any help.

[RippleJet]

Hi all,

I've been looking at farms (I-R) lots and buildings lately, trying to make my own. I have figured out some features (pls correct me if I'm wrong) and I have a few questions:

- There are two types of I-R lots and buildings, the "main" lot/building, looking from the modding point of view pretty much like the other I lots and buildings (except that they are I-R, not I-D/M/HT) and the so-called "farm-fields".
- These appear not to be really growable. Likely they just fill the rest of the zoned farm area when the "main" lot (the "real" growable) grows - the "Field Lots" property specifies the farm-field lots that may be selected for the specific main I-R lot. So they are just "decorative", and in quite a few ways: the Growth Stage is 0xFF, they appear not to employ any sims, not to consume power or water and to not pay any taxes (no "Building Value" property).

You've got the main picture correctly!

However, a few properties are inhereted from the Parent Cohort file at 0x05342861, 0xA7BDDF17, 0x00004100:

Wealth = Low Wealth
Purpose = Agriculture
Capacity Satisified = Industry Resource, 0x01

The last one should tell you that 1 person is working on each field tile.

Otherwise, no, they do not provide tax income, do not consume water nor power.

Has anybody experimented with adding jobs to farm fields? Also would adding, say, one or two I-R jobs or some taxes per tile be a "cheat" or in any way "against the rules"? I think the player should get some "compensation" for the space taken up and the pollution.

Yes, some fields by Colyn do actually employ 2 or even 4 per tile...

[cogeo]

Ehmm.., didn't notice the property in the cohort! Thanks!

Another question, how should I decide what stage the farms should be? Is there any point in making it a stage higher than 3 (CAM)? Any tips about the jobs provided by the main lot?

[RippleJet]

The "X" Tool (and Maxis as well) calculates all capacities based on the floorage of the main building.
The formulas are given in this thread: "X" Tool: Capacity Calculations and Floorage.

Since several farm houses are small and not necessarily (usually not) the only place where farmers work, those making farm lots usually add 1 worker per tile of the main lot, in a way to compensate for those jobs that would otherwise be provided by the field lots.

Since I-R is the only RCI type that won't upgrade, the selection of growth stage is not that important.
However, if you want to follow the guidelines set up for the "X" Tool and the CAM, read about the Stage Limits.

[cogeo]

Wow, thanks again!

Btw where can I download the X Tool from?

[wouanagaine]

Btw where can I download the X Tool from?

From a hidden place on my HD, because I still have to finish it

[cogeo]

Could someone please answer this:

In the case of growable buildings/lots, what does the simulator really grow, the building or the lot? For ploppables it's almost definite that the user actually selects the building (the lot is specified by the "Lot Resource Key" key property), and this is why it's not possible to make ploppable building families. But in growables such a property does not exist, so I guess the simulator grows the lot.
I'm gonna make three building exemplars for the farm bat/lot I'm currently working on, and I need to know if I need to make three lots (each one referencing a specific building) or instead a single lot (referencing the buidlings through a Building Family). I also have to mention that I tried this for the "farm field" buildings/lots (not the "growable" building/lot) but I run into troubles (eg I was unable to bulldoze them once grown), that is farm fields buildings and lots must be in a 1:1 relation and moreover have the same instance ID!

Another question, has anybody experimented with farm fields lots sized bigger than 1x1? Any considerations, suggestions etc? If someone has experimented (even if failed) please post, this might save me from unfruitful attempts.

[BarbyW]

Farms grow by the building so you can safely use a building family on a farm lot. If you look at some of my farms you will see that they do just that. Farm fields are a different proposition and so far as I know they can only be 1x1. A long time ago GrampaAl made a farm field template based on the Maxis field and I have used that as the base for all the fields that I made and I think that CSX and SG fields are using the same base. If you would like a copy to study and/or use please let me know and I will email one to you.

[cogeo]

Thanks Barby, always very helpful! 

And yes, I would like to have that template please. I'm actually finished with the farm fields (using cohorts for the common properties, and unfortunately 1:1 building/lot pairs), but I would like to see what the others have done.

Which of your farms are you talking about? Could you be a little more specific? (I would like to check one modded in a way you think that's right, not an older one modded maybe differently). Thanks again!

[BarbyW]

If you PM me your email address I'll send you the field template.
The farms of mine that use a family are: I-r1_4x4_BLS GA_EuroFarm01v2_af602f14;
I-r2_6x4_BSC_Farm-NA01v1_2f602f3a and I-r3_6x4_BSC_BLS_GA_Wheat_Farmv2. The building exemplars are in the lot file as the different farms use different fields and are for different types of crop. Complicated

[wouanagaine]

Barby can you send cogeo a PIMX generated field instead of the template, because I'm pretty sure the template define more properties than needed

[BarbyW]

Oops I've sent the template now but can send a PIM_X one as well.

[cogeo]

Any idea about the number of jobs in a stage-3 farm for CAM? Pedriana Plants in non-CAM SC4 employ 13 people, but in CAM this has been raised to 88! My farm has 14 IR jobs and it's stage-3. But it dilapidates badly with CAM (employing on 6-7 people), esp if other farms grow.

Is it possible to make a building/lot that works well with and wothout CAM, or instead I need to make two versions?

[BarbyW]

As farms don't upgrade, stages are really immaterial. In CAM stages 1-3 will grow at roughly the same % so giving more variety instead of a lot of one type. The basis for the stages are mainly on occupancy and as the farm is allocated jobs on size of building we had to look at other options. Most farm lots are bigger to reflect real farms so a decision was made to add jobs to the main lot based on the number of tiles in the lot.
I think you would need to make two versions if you don't want to increase the number of jobs significantly but remember that anything to stage 3 will grow with or without CAM.

[cogeo]

OK, here is the farm I'm currently working on: Spirulina Farms. Spirulina is blue-green micro-algae, sold as hygienic food and dietary supplement, as well as astronaut food.



The lot uses two new models, the processing/packaging unit (looking like a warehouse) and the drying unit (at back). I'm gonna BAT an additional packaging unit (prop family). The rest are props and prop-families from SC4 and SG Props Mega-Pack.

The farm fields have just two props (algae grow tubs). There are nine tub models. They change appearance twice a year. Unfortunately technical restrictions do not allow to represent exactly the full growth/harvest cycle, so these props change just twice a year. There are also two building exemplars, one that uses all-same tubs (they change appearance twice a year simultaneously) - the game will select one of the props randomly to be used in all farmfields - and another one with various tub props (the one in the pic).

I have also experimented with bigger than 1x1 farmfields (I wished to make larger tub models). The game grows them, but a special zoning arrangement (a sparse one) is required. Then the player has to bulldoze the even-numbered farmfields. Here is a pic (with a draft/test model of course):



However this technique has lots of problems, like the fields getting "disconnected" from the main farm lot and therefore displaying no-access zots and lots getting overlapped with themselves, the main farm lot and the roads, thus causing errors like being unable to bulldoze or dezone them later. So I gave up. Maybe I will make them ploppables (just like ploppable industry/commercial) and the player will have to lay strets for every two lots (steets every six tiles, esp those dirt ones will look OK I think).

I have attached my work so far (excl the models) if anybody wants to check/review them.

Thank you all for your help and your comments!

[BarbyW]

I've had a quick look at the farm and apart from it having far too few jobs I can't see a problem with it. I have 86 jobs on a 5x4 farm. If you think about how Maxis bases occupancy on lot size as well as the actual size of the building, you can see that 14 is way too few for a lot this size no matter how realistic it may be. I would suggest that to keep the farm from dilapidating you increase the jobs to somewhere in the region of 50.

[cogeo]

Thanks Barby!

The settings for the building/lot are close to these in Pedriana Plants (they only have 13 jobs in the original RH dats). So I rather need to make two versions, as said above.

As far as I can see CAM changes only the number of jobs, with all other parameters (incl Building Value) left unchanged. That is in both RH and CAM Pedriana Plants will pay the same taxes, despite that in the lalter case they employ as many as 88 sims. Is this the way to go?

[BarbyW]

Yes I would think so. I don't see why you need 2 versions, though, as the higher jobs will keep the farm going longer anyway and it will grow without CAM.

[cogeo]

Has anybody experimented with ploppable I-R lots/buildings?

I have checked SGs ploppable farms, but... these are not actually farms, they are CS and I-M lots and buildings. Why this? Is there any known problem with ploppable I-R lots and using CS and I-M was just a workaround?

How about the settings below?

In the Lot Exemplar:
- Set Growth Stage to 0xFF (prevents it from growing)
- Set LotConfigPropertyZoneTypes to 0x0F (civic ?).
- Set LotConfigPropertyWealthTypes to 0x01 (low wealth). In some of SGs lots this was left empty, in some others it's 0x02.
- Set LotConfigPropertyPurposeTypes to 0x05.

In the Building Exemplar:
- Set Wealth to low wealth
- Set Purpose to Agriculture
- Set Capacity Satisfied to Industry Resource, #jobs#
- Set Occupant Types to 0x00004100
- Set all properties needed for ploppables (Plop/Bulldoze Cost, Building Value, Item Icon, Item Order etc)
- Set Occupant Groups to Building:Landmark, Building:IA

Is there something missing?

The above settings are the I-R equivalents to CS (haven't yet tested them though)

How about the following Occupant Groups: Building:Industrial, Building:Farmland, Industry:Out (used in SC4 farms), Automata:Farm Vehicles?
I have no clue what these Occupant Groups do. In the CS ploppables I have seen, the Building:Commercial OC (looks similar to Building:Industrial) is not used, looks like these OCs are for growables only.
What exactly Industry:Out and Building:Farmland mean?

Any help on the questions above would be highly appreciated.

[BarbyW]

The X_Tool allows the making of I-R plops and if you have a look at Kwakelaar's Palais Kolkhof plop you will see it has I-R jobs. Unfortunately you will still have to wait on wouanagaine to finish the program before you can use it.