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NAM: Development

Started by memo, April 29, 2007, 06:33:33 AM

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Tarkus

Quote from: Wiimeiser on May 31, 2011, 11:51:03 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a puzzle piece cannot touch a TE lot of the same network under any circumstances. This was due to a lack of testing on EA's behalf, since TE lots were added at the last second (Rush Hour has three, one of which is physically impossible to access without cheats)

In almost all cases, yes.  There are a few that Maxis/EA designed that don't suffer this issue, but any custom one will.

The "AutoPlace"-implemented Draggable FAR system triggered this glitch, as the underlying TE setup underneath the Car Ferry matched the CheckType setup of the FAR puzzle piece.  When one would place the Car Ferry, the game would then try to initiate the AutoPlace on the FAR puzzle piece, triggering the TE CTD.

-Alex

Wiimeiser

Which ones don't suffer the issue?
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gooper1

#1002
Why don't you just change the TE setup of FAR?

As double-decker RHW is in development; why don't you make double-decker roads (more specifically, 2 OWRs-1 per deck-going in opposite directions), and El Hwy over Avenue pieces? Is it possible?

-Gooper1

Merged two posts.  There's no need to double-post with two questions in a 4 minute timeframe. -Admin


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Tarkus

Quote from: gooper1 on June 15, 2011, 01:24:25 PM
Why don't you just change the TE setup of FAR?

If we changed the RUL CheckType setup underlaying FAR, its usefulness in producing this draggable AutoPlace system would be eliminated.  It would effectively be moot.

Quote from: gooper1 on June 15, 2011, 01:24:25 PM
As double-decker RHW is in development; why don't you make double-decker roads (more specifically, 2 OWRs-1 per deck-going in opposite directions), and El Hwy over Avenue pieces? Is it possible?

Those items are more specialized--there's not as much utility for them as there is for just a general double-decker highway, so I'd say the chances there are much slimmer.

-Alex

j-dub

#1004
@gooper1 About Maxis default networks and double deck possibility: Not too long ago, shortly before double-decker RHW was displayed, someone who was in the NAM team, had experimented with that last part you mentioned, exploring the Elevated Maxis Highway over Avenues. I have seen nothing else found of that, I don't even know if it was draggable like double-decker RHW is. Car paths the same direction at different height, would not stop the cars jumping between levels, and that is not exactly pleasant to watch. You may know that it took a long time for double-decker RHW. The whole thing is with RHW, the Maxis highway has no more development that I know of.

GDO29Anagram

Quote from: j-dub on June 15, 2011, 02:11:03 PM
About Maxis default networks and double decks: Not too long ago, shortly before double-decker RHW was displayed, someone who was in the NAM team, had experimented with that last part you mentioned, exploring the Elevated Maxis Highway over Avenues.

That was Ebina; He retired from transit modding, if I remember correctly. I don't know much about MHW over AVE-4, either, but I believe it was puzzle-based (and would make better sense if it were, too).
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jdenm8

Yeah, those were made by Ebina. The NAM team has some very early prototypes, but Ebina never gave anybody what he was working on when he left, so all the work has been lost.


"We're making SimCity, not some dopey casual game." -Ocean Quigley

gooper1

Quote from: Tarkus on June 15, 2011, 01:58:04 PM
Those items are more specialized--there's not as much utility for them as there is for just a general double-decker highway, so I'd say the chances there are much slimmer.
What do you mean, "there's not as much utility for them"? Downtown Chicago has multilevel streets all over the place!
And with the double-decker MHY (i.e. GMHY over L1 EMHY, or L2 and L3 EMHY), is it possible?

-Gooper1
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jdenm8

Quote from: gooper1 on June 16, 2011, 04:31:40 PM
What do you mean, "there's not as much utility for them"? Downtown Chicago has multilevel streets all over the place!
And with the double-decker MHY (i.e. GMHY over L1 EMHY, or L2 and L3 EMHY), is it possible?

-Gooper1

Where are they other than Chicago?
This is also my argument for not making OWR-8, because it only exists in Moscow.


"We're making SimCity, not some dopey casual game." -Ocean Quigley

GDO29Anagram

#1009
It should be noted that additional development involving MHW is strictly limited to "gap-filling" (EG, EMHW diamond interchanges with AVE-6).

Quote from: Tarkus
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/42711-is-there-going-to-be-any-more-development-of-the-maxis-highways/page__view__findpost__p__1143390

Unless andreharv reappears or someone new steps up who has the time and energy to devote to the long-term, highly-intensive process of creating new Maxis Highway interchanges and the like, the most you'll really see coming out of the transit modding community is some smaller "gap-fill" Maxis Highway items along the lines of what Chrisim created. The Ground and Elevated Highways are basically in a state close to what the software development world would call "maintenance mode".

It takes a long time to work with MHW, due to their complicated models, and even if someone took the time to create an MHW equivalent of DDRHW,...

Quote from: Tarkus on June 05, 2011, 11:42:15 PM
Why 15m and 22.5m for the two decks?  Will there be additional heights?

In RL, most double-decker highways are elevated substantially and usually pass over any potential obstacles.  Setting the bottom deck at 15m (or Level 2/L2 as it will be known when we get closer to RHW 5.0) means that both ground-level and future 7.5m (Level 1/L1) networks can pass under it.  22.5m (Level 3/L3) for the top deck means that in the rarer instances in which a network needs to pass over top, the future 30m (Level 4/L4) networks can do the job.

Thus, this deck arrangement appears to be the most practical and realistic.

It's locked to L3 over L2.

Plus, Gooper1, can you provide a link about the multi-level streets you're talking about? Just saying they exist somewhere doesn't provide enough information (especially when you're desperately combing through Google Maps).
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z

#1010
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on June 16, 2011, 05:10:19 PM
Plus, Gooper1, can you provide a link about the multi-level streets you're talking about? Just saying they exist somewhere doesn't provide enough information (especially when you're desperately combing through Google Maps).

As a native Chicagoan, I can testify to the profusion of multi-level streets throughout downtown.  Many streets, including Wacker Drive, have three levels.  Better yet, I can give you the link you're looking for - it's the Multilevel streets in Chicago article in Wikipedia.  It comes complete with a history of how these streets developed, and even a color-coded map, as well as various external references.  Many of these streets, such as Wacker Drive, have articles of their own, which are referenced in the main article.

kassarc16

Wow, I never actually realized there were streets like that in Chicago... that's kinda awesome...

GDO29Anagram

Quote from: kassarc16 on June 16, 2011, 06:08:27 PM
Wow, I never actually realized there were streets like that in Chicago... that's kinda awesome...

I never thought there would be such streets, either, but the lower decks feel like they're underground. I thought the decks would be thoroughly exposed, but when you cover them up with the sides of tall buildings, it starts to feel more like an underground parking garage.
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z

#1013
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on June 16, 2011, 06:30:12 PM
I never thought there would be such streets, either, but the lower decks feel like they're underground.

They are now, although they weren't originally.

QuoteI thought the decks would be thoroughly exposed, but when you cover them up with the sides of tall buildings, it starts to feel more like an underground parking garage.

Not when you drive through them.  There's actually an underground city down there.  Many of the main buildings downtown have entrances at all street levels.  Some buildings use the lower level(s) for shipping and receiving entrances.  But there are also whole streets of shops that exist only underground.  For example, the famous Billy Goat Tavern exists on the lower level of Michigan Avenue.

And then there are the double decker streets that cross the Chicago River as double decker bridges.  Some of the multi-level streets then continue on the north side of the river; these aren't shown in the picture I referenced.

Oh yes - there are also the little underground trains that used to run under the lowest level of every downtown street - even the single level ones.  But you don't really want to know about those, do you?

jibjohn

Might I just add that there is a section of the M4 in Brentford, West London which is built on top of the A4 (Great West Road), a photo:



(and yes I also think it's odd that both the motorway and duel carrageway have a 40mph speed limit),

John

jdenm8

That one's technically Motorway over Road, which doesn't really count because it's not possible.


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jibjohn

Quote from: jdenm8 on June 17, 2011, 07:46:45 AM
That one's technically Motorway over Road
?

but there are two paved two-lane-wide carrageways in each direction physically separated, isn't it more like avenue?

the planners of the Great West road, who also designed London parts of the A40, A12, A1 and A10 in the late 1920s, made something of much more resemblance to the maxis avenue in sc4

jdenm8

Ack, more of my RL speech leaking over (unless it's a Motorway, it's generally referred to as a Road here :P )

The issue is that two levels of traffic are flowing in the same direction. That confuses the pathfinder because it only looks at distances left and right, not up and down, meaning that a jump 7.5m into the air is not illegal (It sees it as another lane exiting on the same side).

DDERHW-4 works by devoting one deck to one direction and the other deck to the opposite direction. This does not confuse the pathfinder as it does see the other lane, but it writes it off as going in the wrong direction.

Every picture of the Highway-Over-Avenue I've seen has a very suspicious row of plazas next to it. My conclusion is that the Highway over 'Avenue' is puzzle-piece based highway, but with the paths and models shifted 16m toward the centre of the Avenue to make it look like it's on top of the Avenue. As the pathfinder thinks it's in the tile beside the avenue +19m (for argument's sake) in one direction, it doesn't see the paths on the Avenue as the traffic isn't actually travelling through the same tiles as the Avenue.


"We're making SimCity, not some dopey casual game." -Ocean Quigley

jibjohn

sorry for the misunderstanding, i also saw the photos, and tbh i was a little supprised given that i had read so much about it not being possible, it looks an interesting concept, however i personally doubt i would ever be in need of such a network, so not really botherd about any development, but thanks for the replies!

Ramona Brie

Minutia question: are the revamped elevated road and avenue overpasses part of NAM 30?