NAM RHW Poll - Please Vote!

[Pat]

I'm a firm believer in there being no silly questions.  "Do you use the RHW?" strikes me as pushing that envelope pretty hard.


David

Second that.......

I use RHW because it looks sooooo damn awesome

Joe

Amen!!!

[sneekypetepuma]

I use it .. but i"ll use it more when you have more overpasses completed... Since there is rail flyover puzzle pieces... couldn't there be rural highway flyover puzzle pieces..!!!!   

[j-dub]

Sneeky, do you mean flyovers as in curved ramps overpass pieces? They were being made. The first ones were the MIS curved flyover overpass pieces, but yeah, that will really have to wait for a later time when those are completed.

[GMT]

of course I do.
although I wish some more curvey stuff and some more compatibility with inner city placings (e.g. hov lanes) because the only way to get an american feeling to city highways is using the rhw

[Gaston]

     Okay maybe I missed something.   Is the "RURAL" part of RHW no longer valid?     RHW seems to be heading for a complete 180 since it's creation.    Alot of what I see posted lately, I think, should be used in conjunction with the origional Maxis highway systems.   They were (and still are) very urban looking.    Don't get me wrong, I love everything that has been created for RHW.   The work that has been done is unbelievable.    Everyone involved has done an incredible job.     I just remember back when it was still just a thought and the idea was to create a truely rural highway system.    Because the maxis highways were to urban to look correct out in the country.   
     A lot of recent posts have asked for, what I think of as, urban additions to the RHW.    Can the origional maxis highways be modified (widened, extra lanes, etc)?    They already have the "urban" feel about them.   At least they look like urban highways here in the US.    I am sure it is different in other parts of the world.   I am not the most well travelled person.   lol   
     Sorry if I overstepped my boundries with this post.    I don't want to make anyone mad.   These are just my concerns and rambling thoughts on the subject.     


---Gaston

[Tarkus]

Gaston, thanks for asking some pointed questions.  I'll do my best to answer them below.

Is the "RURAL" part of RHW no longer valid?    

It's still valid, but as you may have noticed in the RHW thread's "banner image", the rural has been crossed out--something which would have been a valid assumption since at least 2006.  We're still adding on to the "rural" end of things, and you'll find a number of features in the next release that will enhance that part of it, including more at-grade intersections.  However, the "rural" name had a lot of baggage with it and created some misconceptions, and made those not entirely familiar with the mod's capabilities automatically assume it's not suitable for non-rural settings, which couldn't be further from the truth.

When I encountered the RHW for the first time when lurking at ST in late 2005, before I ever registered there, I saw a great deal of potential.  Even in the initial Alpha, it struck me as having more flexibility than the Maxis Highways, in addition to a better appearance.  When I saw qurlix's initial RHW-8 prototype in 2006, I finally saw something in SC4 that could accurately portray a wide variety of highway types, and I realized I might finally be able to accurately represent something like US-26 in the western reaches of the Portland Metro area.  Between the junction with Oregon Highway 6 up to the interchange at I-405 in downtown Portland, US-26 basically "utilizes every network" in the RHW mod, starting from a 2-lane highway just west of the Highway 6 junction, transforming into a 4-lane expressway and then a full-on freeway as it heads east into the Portland suburbs.

And actually, the original idea with the RHW was to be an improvement on the "Multi-Highway" trick that long-time community member lakeyboy popularized in the early years of the community.  If you look at the initial prototypes, the RHW was using Maxis Highway textures.  The "rural" part of it was simply a brief snapshot in qurlix's original development plans, and he often felt the name was inappropriate and wanted to change it himself, even in the earliest days of the project, but it had "stuck" already.

There's also technical issues involved.  I think the crux of the matter lies in this inquiry:

Can the origional maxis highways be modified (widened, extra lanes, etc)?

The issue is that the game's 2-tile networks are really awkward and beastly contraptions, and as such, are very limited in what they are capable of doing.  When the RHW got going in late 2005, there were no modding techniques capable of reliably doing that.  Plus, you would have needed a bunch of modelers familiar with transit-modeling techniques, which are relatively scarce now, and were even more scarce then.  The "puzzle drag" technology we take for granted today was just being discovered, and didn't make its public debut until two years later with Draggable GLR in the June 2007 NAM. 

And even beyond that, once we had the puzzle-drag technique, we had no idea how to do a puzzle-drag on a 2-tile network.  There was a little development on that earlier this year from Vince (Blue Lightning), but it's still a very restrictive area, and the structure of the Maxis Highway network restricts it even more.  Using a single-tile network, like the game's unused "DirtRoad" network, which is already treated like a Highway by the game, allows for much greater flexibility.  That's also the reason why the Avenue network hasn't been used as part of the long-awaited NWM project.

I hope that sheds some light on why things went the way they did.

-Alex

[Gaston]

Thanks so much for your frank and very informative answers.    You have answered my questions and relieved my worries.   Thanks again.


---Gaston

[Pharaon-Kheops]

for now, I'm still using RHW only for is "rural" component (essentially 2w and 4w in the middle of nowhere^^). I don't use it for city centres because of its lack of flexibility when using large parts (it is still very very hard to do a real good downtown 8/10w freeway network with it). But I always look (and install^^) each new update with excitement and respect, because this is really a masterpiece very few people could have guessed possible only 3 or 4 years ago. Peoples beyond this mod are doing a threatening job and I am very confident that sooner or later, they will give us a mean to compete with real world urban ingeneers^^

The points I would be very happy to see some change on are:

- textures coherence between all type of road network (i.e. or make RHW texture compliant with Maxis' HW texture, or change Maxis' to fit RHW's)
- improve the "directional capabilities" of the large RHW pieces (so that we could really "design" a freeway network)

These are just my "secret hope" guys, not a way to influence your work in any mode or complain it does not go fast enough... We have several very talentuous teams of modders here at SC4D and you are clearly part of them! keep it alive! 

[tamorr]

for now, I'm still using RHW only for is "rural" component (essentially 2w and 4w in the middle of nowhere^^). I don't use it for city centres because of its lack of flexibility when using large parts (it is still very very hard to do a real good downtown 8/10w freeway network with it). But I always look (and install^^) each new update with excitement and respect, because this is really a masterpiece very few people could have guessed possible only 3 or 4 years ago. Peoples beyond this mod are doing a threatening job and I am very confident that sooner or later, they will give us a mean to compete with real world urban ingeneers^^

The points I would be very happy to see some change on are:

- textures coherence between all type of road network (i.e. or make RHW texture compliant with Maxis' HW texture, or change Maxis' to fit RHW's)
- improve the "directional capabilities" of the large RHW pieces (so that we could really "design" a freeway network)

These are just my "secret hope" guys, not a way to influence your work in any mode or complain it does not go fast enough... We have several very talentuous teams of modders here at SC4D and you are clearly part of them! keep it alive! 

   I believe there is already a mod for Maxis HWs to at least be close in color to the RHW...
Highway ReStyling Mod V03

Highway ReStyling Mod Asphalt Texture Set Complete

[kbieniu7]

I use RHW sometimes.
But instead lot of junctions and puzzles, I need better textures. So I still use RHW 2.0 with SA textures, waiting in meanwhile for new Shadow Assasin's great textures 

[j-dub]

I remember Highway Restyling Mod V03 was close to the first MIS edition RHW. Then times changed, if you wanted the Maxis one to look close to today's RHW, you had to go with asphalt, although lately, more highways seem to be going with asphalt now, instead of cement. I still have the cement Maxis HW, the very least that version that looks like the old RHW MIS, has a shoulder, and despite the Maxis tightness, the shoulders made it seem wider almost like the RHW.

As for directional capabilities, the RHW is limited to the 45, 90 and FARR piece directions, because EA is not into allowing us exe modifications, if thats what your secret hope was. Bigger stuff like that will just have to be for a later time. Speaking of secrets, Tarkus is busy sacrificing his real life with other stuff that I think people will find quite useful, surprising and satisfying.

[Pharaon-Kheops]

actually, the RHW texture color is the perfect one tmo... sadly, all the asphalt textures I have found around are far too "blacky" confronted to this one, and there is no "cement" texture for RHW.

Concerning flexibility, I meant that it is very hard to use RHW to make a realist city center HW, because most should be done with puzzle pieces and also because 8 and 10 lanes RHW don't have diagonnal pieces for now.

I've talked about hope, because if you remember what the first versions of NAM where and if you see it now, you will agree that there are a lot of reasons to be fully confident about RHW future... ^^

[mdawgmike]

I use it in actual rural areas, but that's about it.  I would really like to use it in my urban areas, but find it impractical due to the scale it uses (being RL scale, and not Maxis scale...or however one might word that).  Things like elevated transitions take up MORE tiles than their Maxis counterparts, making the RHW difficult to implement.  Maxis highways are, simply put, easier to fit in tight spots than the RHW.  Once that obstacle is overcome, then I see no use for the Maxis highways anymore.

Also, as others have pointed out, RHW isn't all that aesthetically pleasing ATM with the shading issues and lack of smooth transition pieces to other networks.

[Strategist01]

I am experimenting with the RHW. I really hate using highways, and generally don't need them, as my bus/subway double roadtop stations are so good at keeping congestion down. But it can be annoying, when you can't cycle through to the next puzzle piece, or you can't get a piece at all unless you demolish a piece of highway...

My 2c, cheers!

[cogeo]

I don't use them, and this is basically because of their looks. They contain just the textures. Real RHWs may (but may also not) have streetlights, drainage infrastructures, barriers, fencing, dividers etc etc. In some cases they may even have plants or panels between the two directions (to protect drivers from the lights of cars coming from the opposite direction). OK, we definitely don't need all these, but RHWs as they are now are just too plain. Even the most "rural" highways do have something of the ones mentioned above. Also the textures do not really look just right, I think, they are jsut too plain and "clean", I would say "sterilised". I don't know if they are in HD, but if so this has definitely not helped, if not made things worse actually. For example, the markings are too clean, too "perfect" and very "well defined". Also their colour is in general way too dark and the contrast between the asphalt and the markings (lanes) way too high. All these have actually turned me away. I would reconsider this if the above issues were re-addressed.

[Tarkus]

They contain just the textures. Real RHWs may (but may also not) have streetlights, drainage infrastructures, barriers, fencing, dividers etc etc.

In that case, look into Xyloxadoria's RHW Lights and Barriers download here.

Also the textures do not really look just right, I think, they are jsut too plain and "clean", I would say "sterilised". I don't know if they are in HD, but if so this has definitely not helped, if not made things worse actually. For example, the markings are too clean, too "perfect" and very "well defined". Also their colour is in general way too dark and the contrast between the asphalt and the markings (lanes) way too high.

Which version of the textures are you referring to?  The ones in the last public release (Version 3)?  The default set is being changed for the next release.  Also, Shadow Assassin's Euro textures will also be getting an update coinciding with the next release of the mod. 

I had looked into HD, but the filesize is a bit steep.  Depending on how they are processed, a Zoom 5 texture can range from about 17KB to in excess of 100KB, compared to about 6-10KB for Standard Definition, so HD is likely not happening.

-Alex

[cogeo]

Alex, I have only checked the official releases, and these are the ones my comments were about. I just looked at the development thread, and yes, these look better, but I still think they are too dark. As for HD, as I said above I think it won't really be an improvement worth making. The standard resolution (for textures) is adequate imo, as it's quite close to the screen's actual resolution (models is a different story, these suffer from the distortions, the blurring and the pixelation caused by the BAT renderer, so HD here really helps); some members have tried HD for network, lot and terrain textures, but the improvement was indeed very little.

As for Xylo's mods, I think it's obvious (and you rather have to agree) how much this has really improved the appearence of RHWs, and I think they should be included in the standard pack, or maybe make them optional. It is actually possible to have RHWs both with and without lights (or other props), without making two networks. I have utilised such techniques in quite a few of my lots (take a look in RTMT or Fenced GLR); they work, but they are a bit hard to use (requires exiting the game and installing/uninstalling plugins).

[noahclem]

The RHWs are a great addition to the game, and i'd agree with the couple people before who said it was their favorite part of SC4. Of course they're more cumbersome than MHW but I don't think it really makes since for a stack interchange to take up less than 200m x 200m, to have interchanges every city block (i think it's pretty rare to see them more than every km in RL), or to have 50m long on- and off-ramps. MHWs are grossly out of scale, both in lane-width and interchange footprint. The amazing progress made by the RHW team even since v3.0 makes its use even more exciting.

The only time I every use MHWs is in tunnels where no other highway speed and capacity network can go (and they are out of site) and in long suspension bridges where parallel rhw-4 (or even the anticipated rhw-8 bridges) wouldn't be realistic but I hope to dump those in favor of parallel rhw-4 bridges with overhangs to look like a single bridge.

One question I've had for a long time: is it possible to change the paths and textures on mhw to they are identical to adjacent rhw-4s? or change the paths and textures of a mhw bridge to match rhw?

I can't thank everyone on the RHW and NAM teams for their contributions to this game.

[dany10000]

For me it's a very realistic mod. But for the interchanges ther're some problems: it's very difficult build a T or Y connections  more realistic. And there' re problem with the diagonal pieces... but it's baeter then maxis highways in realism!!

[cwhtly]

I stopped using SC4 years ago because I got fustrated with the MHW system, among other things.  With addons like the NAM, and ESP the RHW 3.x, it's like a new game! 

Many Thanks! 

P.S. - Any possibility of adding multi-level RHW overpasses in a future release?  Most of the HW intersections near me are 3 (and up to 5) levels deep!