The FrankU and Nexis CO-OP

[FrankU]

While working on the new props I have the third question to you all.

This one concerns hover queries.
In the images below you see several different situations.



A: a Stage 1 Farm Lot.
B: a full grown Farm Field, with props where the "query as main building" is set to true.
C: a Farm Field without props. This meadow only contains a texture.
D: a Farm Field section where the seasonal prop is not visible due to the "non grown" season.
E: a Farm Field section where a seasonal prop has appeared.
F: a ploppable Farm Field lot (technically a park lot) without a grown prop.
G: a ploppable Farm Field lot with a non seasonal prop (a grown seasonal prop would give the same query).
H: a Farm Field with props that have the "query as main building" set to false (from dependency pack, so I cannot change that). Here I hover in between the props.
I: the same Farm Field where I hover above a prop.

Now my question is a simple one: how can I edit the lots and/or props in such a way that all grown Farm Field lots show the same hover query? Is it possible?
For the ploppable lots there is a different query. That is OK with me.

But what I do not like is that a Farm Field where the props are not visible gives me only info about the zone. I would like to see the same query as we can see in image B and E.
Non visibility of props appears:
1. when the lot contains no props,
2. when the props have an invisible building,
3. when the props are not visible due to the season,
4. when the props are not visible due to zoom level (many props do not appear in zoom level 1)

And the zone query also appears when I hover on a location on a lot where there is no prop at that specific point or where there is only a prop with "query as main building" set to false.

Last week I came with the idea (someone gave me the idea, actually) that adding an invisible prop that covers the whole lot would give me the correct query, at least on meadows and seasonal fields. But of course that was not true. A seasonal field does contain props all the time, it is just that they are not visible all the time. So adding another invisible one is useless.

Does anyone know what I could do?

[kelis]

Sorry Frank I cannot help you with this !! Anyway I hope you can finish this amazing pack with success 

[gn_leugim]

I cannot help you either, but hope someone can

[FrankU]

Thanks for the support, kelis and gn_leugim,

I asked this question in a separate post in the modding section. I hope someone will help me there.

So in this thread I can go on with my fourth question.
It concerns visibility of props in different zoom levels.

I show you the same set of grown farm fields in the three important zooms.

Zoom 1


Zoom 2


Zoom 3


It is obvious that in Zoom 1 a lot of farm fields do not show. The view on the area gets dull, mostly because of the absence of flower fields.
But if all props were always visible the game would lag quite a bit. So therefore Maxis decided to have some props invisible at higher zoom levels. There are props that are not visible in Zoom 1 and even some are not visible in Zoom 2.

For my Farm Fields it boils down to this:

In Zoom 1 are not visible:
all Tulipa
both Rosa
Ribes Rubrum
Hortum Arboribus
Rubus Fruticosus
Triticum Aestivum

In Zoom 2 are not visible:
Buxus
Rubus Fruticosus
Hortum Arboriubus: the small light green props, the lager dark green ones are visible.

So, do you think this setup is OK?
Like I said: all props at all levels gives lagging of the game. Especially the absence of the colorful flower fields gives a loss of city view quality, so I tend to make the Flower Fields visible at zoom 1.

Visibility of props in all the zoom levels can be determines by the property "appearancezoomsflag".
When you take a look in Reader at your props you see a hex number that determines the visibility. For my own comfort and now also yours, I made a list of all possible entries.

Also: if there is no FSH file in the model, there is no visibility. So if the maker of the props (in my case: Maxis, Simgoober, MJB, CP) did not provide a model (FSH files) for Zoom 1 and/or 2, there is nothing I can do. I did not check all availabilities yet....

Appearancezoomsflag   

0x00000000 = zoom -none-
0x00000001 = zoom 1
0x00000002 = zoom 2
0x00000003 = zoom 1,2
0x00000004 = zoom 3
0x00000005 = zoom 1,3
0x00000006 = zoom 2,3
0x00000007 = zoom 1,2,3
0x00000008 = zoom 4
0x00000009 = zoom 1,4
0x0000000a = zoom 2,4
0x0000000b = zoom 1,2,4
0x0000000c = zoom 3,4
0x0000000d = zoom 1,3,4
0x0000000e = zoom 2,3,4
0x0000000f = zoom 1,2,3,4
0x00000010 = zoom 5
0x00000011 = zoom 1,5
0x00000012 = zoom 2,5
0x00000013 = zoom 1,2,5
0x00000014 = zoom 3,5
0x00000015 = zoom 1,3,5
0x00000016 = zoom 2,3,5
0x00000017 = zoom 1,2,3,5
0x00000018 = zoom 4,5
0x00000019 = zoom 1,4,5
0x0000001a = zoom 2,4,5
0x0000001b = zoom 1,2,4,5
0x0000001c = zoom 3,4,5
0x0000001d = zoom 1,3,4,5
0x0000001e = zoom 2,3,4,5
0x0000001f = zoom 1,2,3,4,5

Please give me your opinion.

[mrbisonm]

So, do you think this setup is OK?

In my opinion, they all look great! When I fly at 4 thousand feet and it's a little hazy or humid out, I don't really see the blooming mustard fields here in Quebec, but instead they blend in with most other surrounding fields as corn or clover/alfalfa. So, it is quite logical to loose some clearity, colour intensity and saturation seen from higher elevations.

Great to see you back on the project, I will be here soon also, once the legal "stuff" has been all straightened out.

Fred

[kelis]

I totally agree with what fred said !! I think this setup is Ok 

[FrankU]

Thanks Fred and Jonathan,

Another issue in between. And a request again....

I have made Custom Queries. For those queries I would like to incorporate some translations. I have made English (default), Dutch and German. Maybe someone can help me with French, Portugese, and whatever is available?

These are the texts that need translation:
Dutch vegetable fields, grown
Dutch vegetable fields, plopped
Dutch fruit fields, grown
Dutch fruit fields, plopped
Dutch meadows, grown
Dutch meadows, plopped
grown tiles of Dutch forest
plopped tiles of Dutch forest
Dutch flower fields, grown
Dutch flower fields, plopped
Dutch cereal fields, grown
Dutch cereal fields, plopped
Dutch tree farming fields, grown
Dutch tree farming fields, plopped
Dutch greenhouse tiles, grown
Dutch greenhouse tiles, plopped

There is not much space for a longer line of text, so keep it short! Inthe German version I had to use "NL" instead of "Niederländisch", because it was too long...

Anyone who likes to help me, please post. I will name you in the readme. And maybe I'll think of some other reward.

[kelis]

If you want I may help you with Spanish

P.S: I saw your MP, I think along this week I will send you the ABN AMRO Bank to your email address, okay ?

Groeten

[Girafe]

The french version. We have the same problem with the adjective Néerlandais. Moreover in french even if it's wrong, we prefer to use the adjective hollandais but it's still long. I don't understand the grown / plopped, is it growable / ploppable? If so there is not equivalent in french that sounds good. You can use growable / ploppable, I think it will be ok.

Dutch vegetable fields, grown / champ hollandais de légumes, growable
Dutch vegetable fields, plopped / champ hollandais de légumes, ploppable
Dutch fruit fields, grown / vergers hollandais, growable
Dutch fruit fields, plopped / vergers hollandais, ploppable
Dutch meadows, grown / prairie hollandaise, growable
Dutch meadows, plopped / prairie hollandaise, ploppable
grown tiles of Dutch forest / forêt hollandaise, growable
plopped tiles of Dutch forest / forêt hollandaise, ploppable
Dutch flower fields, grown / champ de fleurs hollandais, growable
Dutch flower fields, plopped / champ de fleurs hollandais, ploppable
Dutch cereal fields, grown / champ de céréales hollandais, growable
Dutch cereal fields, plopped / champ de céréales hollandais, ploppable
Dutch tree farming fields, grown / sylviculture hollandaise, growable
Dutch tree farming fields, plopped / sylviculture hollandaise ploppable
Dutch greenhouse tiles, grown / serres hollandaises, growable
Dutch greenhouse tiles, plopped / serres hollandaises, ploppable

Russian translation is useless I think 

[FrankU]

Hi Jonathan,

Yes please do. I mean: send the lot and help me with Spanish. I can use every language that is supported by SC4 and is supported by my keyboard. I fear Russian, Greek, Chinese and Japanese would give me too much headaches. Although.... If it is written correctly in a reply it might be a matter of Copy and Paste..
It's maybe 10 minutes of work for every language, so go ahead!

Hi Girafe,

Nice to have caught your attention here.
Merci pour la traduction!
There is no good word that is used by the Fench community which I could use for grow or plop?
I thought something like to grow = croître and plop= déposé?

[gn_leugim]

Another issue in between. And a request again....
(...)Maybe someone can help me with (...) Portugese (...)

These are the texts that need translation:

Dutch vegetable fields, grown
Dutch vegetable fields, plopped
Dutch fruit fields, grown
Dutch fruit fields, plopped
Dutch meadows, grown
Dutch meadows, plopped
grown tiles of Dutch forest
plopped tiles of Dutch forest
Dutch flower fields, grown
Dutch flower fields, plopped
Dutch cereal fields, grown
Dutch cereal fields, plopped
Dutch tree farming fields, grown
Dutch tree farming fields, plopped
Dutch greenhouse tiles, grown
Dutch greenhouse tiles, plopped

Dutch vegetable fields, grown - Campo de Vegetais Holandês, Crescimento Natural
Dutch vegetable fields, plopped - Campo de Vegetais Holandês, Posto
Dutch fruit fields, grown - Campo de Fruto Holandês, Crescimento Natural
Dutch fruit fields, plopped - Campo de Fruto Holandês, Posto
Dutch meadows, grown - Campos Verdes Holandeses, Crescimento Natural
Dutch meadows, plopped  - Campos Verdes Holandeses, Posto
grown tiles of Dutch forest - Campo de Floresta Holandesa de Crescimento Natural
plopped tiles of Dutch forest - Campo de Floresta Holandesa Posto
Dutch flower fields, grown - Campo de Flores Holandês, Crescimento Natural
Dutch flower fields, plopped - Campo de Flores Holandês, Posto
Dutch cereal fields, grown - Campo de Cereal Holandês, Crescimento Natural
Dutch cereal fields, plopped  - Campo de Cereal Holandês, Posto
Dutch tree farming fields, grown - Campo de Árvores Agrícolas, Crescimento Natural
Dutch tree farming fields, plopped - Campo de Árvores Agrícolas, Posto
Dutch greenhouse tiles, grown - Estufas Holandesas, Crescimento Natural
Dutch greenhouse tiles, plopped - Estufas Holandesas, Postas

Now, why did I put some stuff at italic? because I have never thought how I would say "Growable/Grown" or Ploppable/Plopped" in Portuguese. there is no direct translation as far as I know as well. So, I had to came up with something similar, and "Crescimento Natural" can mean "naturally grown", which applies to the case, of naturally grown stuff with the simulator. On the other hand, "Posto" means "putted in" which is similar to how you work with ploppled stuff. An alternative, is to keep the grown and the plopled and just change the name.

Oh, and what you mean by "Dutch tree farming fields"?

and btw, I'll have to rethink my "farm" plugin folder after these :p

[FrankU]

Hi gn_leugim,

My Portugese friend. Thanks for your info.
I see that many of your translations are in singular, but my texts are deliberately in plural. Also I see a lot of capitals. Is that necessary? I prefer lowercase, except when your language demands capitals, like German does with nouns.

Although you are Portugese Portugese, not Brazilian, I guess I should put your translation into the "section" that Maxis has reserved for the Brazilian Portugese? I find no European Portugese language files.

Tree farming field is meant for a field where trees and shrubs are grown for selling. I have a Buxus field and a Hortum Arboricum (a tree nursery), where Buxus shrubs and conifers are grown. They are sold to consumers who want to put them in their gardens. I also have a Populus Tremula nursery: a forest where Populus is planted and grown for their wood. We can make clogs out of this wood, or cut it in pieces and put it in the woodstove.
So basically a tree farming field is a field where shrubs and trees are grown in order to sell them to someone who does something with the tree or shrub.

Your language likes long sentences.... That is a problem: it won't fit within the text line space of the Query.
The longest I can fit into the line is about the French sentence champ de céréales hollandais, plop. 
I think Campo de Vegetais Holandês, Posto will fit. Longer won't go. So at least I cannot use the Crescimento Natural.
But perhaps I do not use Holandês but NL? I did that in the German version. German is also a language of long words. In that respect we have bad luck, because English is really compact, most of the time, so the original Queries are designed with small spaces.

Hi Girafe
I already put your translation into my game and if I make it plop and grow the text lines fit. Thank you!

And @ all
Copy and paste does not work. Many of you might know that already, I just found out. Probably for the third time this year, because I tend to forget this kind of details. Getting old, I guess.

[gn_leugim]

Maxis did not make any distinction between Br-Portuguese and Pt-Portuguese, like it did with UK and USA English, so you have to insert it with the Brazilian Portuguese (which, with all due respect, I found respectful from maxis, as Portugal is the place of birth of the language, but anyway...)

Ah I see that they are and I see in the ss above now better eheh. then it would be: Silvicultura Holandesa.

A possibility for reducing the length would be to remove the plop/grown thing. the "Holandês" can be also a bit lengthy indeed, and for me, it would be fine if you would reduce it to NL (I think almost Portuguese people knows NL from the driving plates :p ) as we don't have anyway shorter to refer to someone or something from Netherlands.

About the capitals and the singulars/plurals. capitals are not mandatory. it's just I am used to do so when modding in SC4 . as for the plural, I deliberately put in the singular most of them, because no matter how big a field is, it is always a "campo". It just sounds better to me than in the plural I think, but, just like before, not mandatory.

[whatevermind]

Have you considered making bigger UI's that can hold bigger text boxes? From what I gather, you're making fully new custom UI files for your stuff anyway. You could also use a smaller font for the lot name field in the pop up queries, GenSubHeader instead of the standard GenHeader, for example.

Mind, these are completely theoretical, I haven't played around with this at all myself, so I can't vouch for how well/if those ideas work. 

[FrankU]

Dear gn_leugim,

Portugal is the origin of the Portugese language. That is clear. Maxis/EA, being an American enterprise, probably thought about their own continent in the first place and about the number of Brazilians being higher than the number of Portugese, hence yielding a higher profit, in the second place.

The queries count the number of grown and plopped farm field tiles. So even if a farm field is a large thing, and should be seen as one thing, the query counts the number of tiles.

It looks like this


So therefore I chose the plurals. And I think the Portugese tiles should also be counted that way. So please send me your translations in plural.
Maybe I should have put the image immediately together with my question. Sorry about that.

I made the texts shorter by adding only a plop or a cresc behind the line. Would that be understandable for you and your counterparts on the American continent?
I will try to use Holandês/Holandeses as much as possible, but in the worst situation I could use the NL.
I did it with the German version. Look. Do not bother about the first text line being in Dutch. That will be OK in the final version.




And hello again whatevermind,

Yes, resizing the queries came up to me. but I'd like them not to be too large. So they are more or less the width of the original Maxis queries. And now it would be a big job to change them all. I'd rather not do it.
The smaller font became unreadable to me, so I chose not to use it. Maybe better glasses would help too.... But it's cheaper this way.


And @ all visitors....
Would you care to take a look at my former questions too? Feedback is very welcome on all issues. So please don't just lurk, but speak out!

I will be most grateful,
Frank

[gn_leugim]

ohhh now that makes sense. then in that case the plural makes all sense and in portuguese it should be in plural too

regarding the grown and plopled, other option is "natural" and "artificial" (I think no translation here is needed ) whose plural are "naturais" and "artificiais"

The one you suggest is understandable too.  As well NL, it looks good, so, if no space is available it is a good option. 

[kelis]

Hello my friend !!

here you got the Spanish translation:

Dutch vegetable fields, grown / Campos vegetales Holandeses, growable
Dutch vegetable fields, plopped / Campos vegetales Holandeses, ploppable
Dutch fruit fields, grown / Campos frutales Holandeses, growable
Dutch fruit fields, plopped / Campos frutales Holandeses, ploppable
Dutch meadows, grown / Prados Holandeses, growable
Dutch meadows, plopped / Prados Holandeses, ploppable
grown tiles of Dutch forest / Cultivos de bosques Holandeses, growable
plopped tiles of Dutch forest / Cultivos de bosques Holandeses, ploppable
Dutch flower fields, grown / Campo de flores Holandesas, growable
Dutch flower fields, plopped / Campo de flores Holandesas, ploppable
Dutch cereal fields, grown / Campo de cereales Holandeses, growable
Dutch cereal fields, plopped / Campo de cereales Holandeses, ploppable
Dutch tree farming fields, grown / Cultivo de arboles Holandeses, growable
Dutch tree farming fields, plopped / Cultivo de arboles Holandeses ploppable
Dutch greenhouse tiles, grown / Invernaderos Holandeses, growable
Dutch greenhouse tiles, plopped / Invernaderos Holandeses, ploppable

Don't forget that word - Holandesas , that is not a mistake, we have male and female depending on how we have to use it, and in that case, flowers (flores) is female and for that reason we say "Holandesas"

Greetings my friend 

P.S: I'll take a little time modding and lot the ABN AMRO bank, I'm a little busy these days, you know the RL...

[FrankU]

Hi Jonathan/kelis,

Thnak you for your contribution, but I think I have some remarks.

First of all: I decided to get rid of the NL/Dutch/Holandesas part. So the title gets shorter. No problem of course.

Then: the "Cultivos de bosques" sounds like a forest that is artificially grown: forestry. But this title was meant for "wild" forest. Besides that the query counts the tiles, so my suggestion would be: "Parcelas de bosques".
I used something alike in Dutch and French: percelen (NL) and parcelles (F).

Then; may I use "grown" and "plopped"?

And of course it should be "Campos de flores", "Campos de cereales" etc. Plural, OK?

And finally: the tree farming field is forestry. Would "Parcelas de silvicultura" be better?

Uhmmm.. why don't I use the word "Forestry" in the English version....? Maybe that is better too....

Please give me your opinion to these remarks.

Frank

[kelis]

Hi Frank:

I think it would be best without the Dutch/Nl/Holandesas part, perhaps you can put a little flag of Holland as always you do and I think this would be enough.

- "Parcelas de bosques" is correct and fits better with what you mean "wild"

- "grown" and "plopped" there is not a exactly traduction for that, could be something like "Crecimiento Natural" (Grown) but I'm not sure what we can use for (plopped).

- Campos is Ok, too.

"Parcelas de silvicultura" is ok, too.

[FrankU]

Hi Jonathan,

Grow and plop is really a problem in many translations.
In Dutch I use "gegroeid" for grown, which means something like "grown up" or grown like a shrub does. Google gives me: "crecido". We use this word for people, animals and plants.
For plopped I use "geplaatst", wich means something like "put down", Google gives me "poner".
But are these comprehensible? What do you Spanish speaking people use when you discuss SC4 lots in your own language? The words you use there I want to use in my queries.

The rest is OK, and I shall use them.

Thank you a lot.