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FLEX Turn Lanes (FTL) and Related Projects - Development and Support

Started by Tarkus, August 01, 2009, 09:36:25 PM

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ivo_su

Quote from: Tarkus on October 12, 2010, 07:45:31 AM
Actually, as the "AVE-10" isn't really a true AVE-10 but twin OWR-5s, it's very likely you'll see something along these lines.

-Alex
Alex is there any chance the new versions of NWM and TULEPs  be ready around Christmas in order for me and the other with it as a gift
- Ivaylo

MandelSoft

^^ Err... I have to remind you of FAQ #1
Quote
1. When is this getting released?

An initial, "basic" set of TuLEPs has been incorporated into the NAM as of the May 2010 release.  With regards to future TuLEPs content, like all other NAM Team projects, there is no release date or timeline for release. 
Lurk mode: ACTIVE

ivo_su


Moonraker0

I am having two problems with the TuLEPs.  The first is that car automata will disappear when and only when they hit a certain spot.  They occasionally make it through in the case of the leftmost spot.  I have observed this before with other intersections.

The red lines perpendicular to the roads represent the exact points where the automata disappear.  The curved paths I have drawn show that car automata only are disappearing when they turn left and hit these disappear points; right-turning and straight-through cars are not disappearing.  I have the Persistent Automata Mod.  I do not have the NAM's integrated automata controller.

Also, after a long time of experiencing the bug where slip lanes are completely unused, I have just installed the patch to fix it (the one currently attached to the first post of the topic), yet still the slip lanes are not being used.  I checked the paths with DrawPaths and found that the slip lanes are missing their paths.  Is this normal?  The intersection shown has almost 1500 cars driving on it per day, many of which are turning right there during their commute.

Nego

I remember there was a patch for that a few pages back...

jdenm8

Try demolishing the slip lanes, then putting them back. That might be all that's stopping them from working. Or, you've put the patch in the wrong place, and it's not loading after the NAM.


"We're making SimCity, not some dopey casual game." -Ocean Quigley

MattyFo

Just a question, not neccesarily a request.  Is it possible to get working stoplights for one way roads?  I've noticed that there are no stop lights on any of the OWRs in the NWM, except when it intersects with a regular 2-Way road, but even then, the lights are only on the 2WR.  Even the maxis OWR only have stop lights on one side of the OWR intersections.  Is it a case of the OWR roads being hard coded in this manner or is it possible to get a TuLEP piece that would work?  If so are some in the works?


- Matt

!!!!GO HABS GO!!!!

Tarkus

Quote from: Moonraker0 on October 12, 2010, 06:02:09 PM
I am having two problems with the TuLEPs.  The first is that car automata will disappear when and only when they hit a certain spot.  They occasionally make it through in the case of the leftmost spot.  I have observed this before with other intersections.

The red lines perpendicular to the roads represent the exact points where the automata disappear.  The curved paths I have drawn show that car automata only are disappearing when they turn left and hit these disappear points; right-turning and straight-through cars are not disappearing.  I have the Persistent Automata Mod.  I do not have the NAM's integrated automata controller.

Automata are weird and annoying little devils, and your post seems to concur with my recent observations that they have difficulty making left turns at otherwise properly pathed intersections.  That affect tends to be amplified with the Persistent Automata Controller from what I've heard, though I've never used it myself, so I don't have personal experience to back that up yet.  I don't really have anything more on that front aside from that, though I do plan on investigating further, however.

Quote from: MattyFo on October 13, 2010, 02:45:38 PM
Just a question, not neccesarily a request.  Is it possible to get working stoplights for one way roads?  I've noticed that there are no stop lights on any of the OWRs in the NWM, except when it intersects with a regular 2-Way road, but even then, the lights are only on the 2WR.  Even the maxis OWR only have stop lights on one side of the OWR intersections.  Is it a case of the OWR roads being hard coded in this manner or is it possible to get a TuLEP piece that would work?  If so are some in the works?

It is related to two hardcoded things--the lack of native stop point support for the One-Way Road network and the directionality of the OWRs being independent of the RUL system and controlled by a "tidal flow" system in the executable, which means that the signals would be facing the wrong way 50% of the time. 

Puzzle piece-based intersections to allow OWR signalization are on the drawing board. 

-Alex

Blue Lightning

Possibly by reducing the "Lane Switch Max Distance" would result in less "jumping" of automata.
"Desc: Max Distance in meters that a vehicle will switch lanes on a multilane network"
I think Maxis originally didn't have them disappear after jumping paths, and probably a smoother transition too, but cut that out for whatever reason.
By default the property is set at 4 meters, which is 1/4 of a tile. Most lanes are only what, 2 meters away from each other? So therefore we would need to lower the value under 1 (to cover maxis highway) to make the automata only switch when its given an intended path choice (split). That might make things jump less and properly use the paths that we provide to transition. I'm not sure if I can test this tonight though, possibly tomorrow night I can.
Also known as Wahrheit

Occasionally lurks.

RHW Project

MattyFo

Wow, quick responses here! :thumbsup:  Thanks Tarkus!  Looking forward to hearing some updates regarding this issue.

!!!!GO HABS GO!!!!

Tarkus

Quote from: MattyFo on October 13, 2010, 03:17:09 PM
Wow, quick responses here! :thumbsup:  Thanks Tarkus!  Looking forward to hearing some updates regarding this issue.

You're most welcome!  I'll have to see if I can whip up a prototype here before long.  There does seem to be a lot of interest in OWR signalization from the user feedback I've gotten.

Quote from: Blue Lightning on October 13, 2010, 03:15:31 PM
Possibly by reducing the "Lane Switch Max Distance" would result in less "jumping" of automata.
"Desc: Max Distance in meters that a vehicle will switch lanes on a multilane network"

Using a value of 1 there as you suggested does appear to improve things.  I tweaked the heck out of some of the other properties in the Persistent Automata Plugin and did a trial with some proper crossover paths between the lanes, which seems to be producing decent results, aside from what appears to be a tendency for vehicles to violate the Pauli exclusion principle when stopped at signals. ::)

It's probably about time we tore the sucker apart and built a new one.  Worked well for the traffic simulator--the NWM, RHW and TuLEPs would be a wreck if not for the developments there over the past 2-3 years.

-Alex

j-dub

QuoteYou're most welcome!  I'll have to see if I can whip up a prototype here before long.  There does seem to be a lot of interest in OWR signalization from the user feedback I've gotten.

Yeah, the OWR signal thing does seem to be inquired about alot, and as of now, I did not see that bit referenced up top, but after so is accomplished, maybe when new comers afterward stop by, they will be so exited to see it up top, that that question will already be answered by the development shot?

As for cars piling up, or getting inside each other, I don't get at the same time, how we have seen this game capable of traffic jams, where the cars have to slow down, and stop, but not all to the point where their inside each other, but maybe disappearing is not completely bad, if you don't want to see them inside each other. Then again, the most I have seen a car travel in this game (shift+query click to car) is 40 tiles before vanishing into thin air.

Blue Lightning

Quote
Using a value of 1 there as you suggested does appear to improve things.  I tweaked the heck out of some of the other properties in the Persistent Automata Plugin and did a trial with some proper crossover paths between the lanes, which seems to be producing decent results, aside from what appears to be a tendency for vehicles to violate the Pauli exclusion principle when stopped at signals. Roll Eyes

It's probably about time we tore the sucker apart and built a new one.  Worked well for the traffic simulator--the NWM, RHW and TuLEPs would be a wreck if not for the developments there over the past 2-3 years.

That's good to hear, and yeah, we do need a new one. Maybe we can add my uber-radical automata mod, I've tweaked the clocks and stuff to better reflect traffic patterns, allowed for more realistic "city jamming." I still need to adjust the population traffic scalar (?) curve as to allow for quiet rural and suburban towns and huge cities to be able to use the same automata controller (right now there tends to be too many cars in suburban towns above 100,000 people)
Also known as Wahrheit

Occasionally lurks.

RHW Project

Tarkus

Quote from: j-dub on October 14, 2010, 08:58:52 AM
Yeah, the OWR signal thing does seem to be inquired about alot, and as of now, I did not see that bit referenced up top, but after so is accomplished, maybe when new comers afterward stop by, they will be so exited to see it up top, that that question will already be answered by the development shot?

That sounds like a good plan.  And speaking of a development shot, well, I have one now.  Made a prototype last night:



-Alex

GDO29Anagram

Is that a SIP that you mentioned back in the NWM thread, Tark?

If so, that's gotta be something good... As of the other posts before yours, it's gotta be something befuddling to me...

Care to explain what it is that you just disassembled? What is this so-called "Automata jumping"? Are you telling me that lane switching, for your test run, had to be achieved in a way that resembles the RHW crossover paths on RHW-6c, 8s and so on? All because you tampered with something that I can't even comprehend?!! (What does this even mean?!!)  ()what()  ???  :o  &mmm

And violating the Pauli Exclusion Principle tells me that you got cars in all the wrong places (And that I've forgotten all my chemistry lessons from many years ago...)...
<INACTIVE>
-----
Simtropolis | YouTube | MLP Forums

Ryan B.

Hmm . . . . . . Alex, this is something I've just had an idea for.  ;)



Proving my mast arms ;) can be used for anything from OWR to TLA to SPUIs.   :D

j-dub

Wow! Glad to see those are still not only alive and kicking, but you also have since been overhauling an accurate redesign! I mean those look like the poles in my reality, but not the signals, they tend to be up and down the most instead of left to right, if it was not the same color, I may have suggested ask Blue Lightning about animated sideway signals
(see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_zlUJr_htQ)
getting mounted on your pole instead, but I didn't know if you cared about animation, and others may prefer the sideways yellow to the sideways black and vice versa.

kassarc16

Quote from: Tarkus on October 14, 2010, 02:57:39 PM
That sounds like a good plan.  And speaking of a development shot, well, I have one now.  Made a prototype last night:
-Alex

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! Please tell me the stop paths can be made functional, too! (On a related note, could 1-Way/Rail be done the same way?)

*Lurk Shield Reactivated*

Tarkus

Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 14, 2010, 03:48:58 PM
Is that a SIP that you mentioned back in the NWM thread, Tark?

Yes, that is indeed the first-ever SIP.

Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 14, 2010, 03:48:58 PM
Care to explain what it is that you just disassembled? What is this so-called "Automata jumping"? Are you telling me that lane switching, for your test run, had to be achieved in a way that resembles the RHW crossover paths on RHW-6c, 8s and so on? All because you tampered with something that I can't even comprehend?!! (What does this even mean?!!)  ()what()  ???  :o  &mmm

Automata jumping refers to the tendency of automata to jump from one path to another going in the same direction, usually to make a turn, and often resulting in some jarring visual effects, including the vehicle making the jump usually disappearing right away.  Adding crossovers does appear to mitigate this effect--if tweaked properly, the crossovers can also improve UDI functionality.  The main downside is the infamous "swerving cars" that some folks who attempt to use automata generators on wider RHWs report.  Carefully setting up the paths and the Automata Tuning Exemplar settings may be able to mitigate this to a large extent, however.

Quote from: Ryan B. on October 14, 2010, 05:55:08 PM
Hmm . . . . . . Alex, this is something I've just had an idea for.  ;)

Proving my mast arms ;) can be used for anything from OWR to TLA to SPUIs.   :D

Very nice--it's good to see the Lone Star signals around. :)

Quote from: kassarc16 on October 14, 2010, 08:37:59 PM
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! Please tell me the stop paths can be made functional, too! (On a related note, could 1-Way/Rail be done the same way?)

*Lurk Shield Reactivated*

The stop paths on that SIP are in fact functional.  Because it was a puzzle piece, I was able to do some clever CheckTyping on the RUL entries so as to trick the game.  And yes, OWR/Rail can be done as well.

SIPs will be made for the default OWR-2 as well as the NWM's OWR-3, 4 and 5.  (The OWR-1 is kind of in limbo right now with the planned conversion to OWS-1, which will allow it to inherit the Street network's stop behavior.)

-Alex

smileymk

I know this will sound really, really dumb, but what is a SIP? (i.e. what does it stand for, and also what does it do?)

A brief description will be welcomed. I'm just interested is all.




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