Reddonquixote's International BAT Thread

[reddonquixote]

Quick win? ...

Brooklyn Bridge







Edit: Sorry, just had to fix the model and update the pics, I didn't notice the carriageway had lowered somehow. The ropes now line up with the rope holes 

Art: (Below) Thanks! Yes, I think that would be possible, but I think I would need to 'un-bend' the carriageway. At some point I will need to work out how to get all these models into a state of game-readiness 

[art128]

That's brilliant. Do you think you'll be able to turn it into a ingame bridge model?
While the Maxis one isn't too bad, we really need a fresh high quality version...


Just a thought.

[siemanthepieman]

At some point I will need to work out how to get all these models into a state of game-readiness 

The most exciting statement of 2018 far!

[tomvsotis]

wowowowowow i've spent a lot of time traversing the IRL BK Bridge and that looks AMAZING. what software are you using for the modelling??

[mattb325]

The modelling certainly leaves the in-game one for dead, and the brooklyn bridge was one of Maxis' better (if not the best?) creations

[reddonquixote]

Thanks all. 

Tom: I use 3DS Max 2017

Here's the start of WTC - WTC1, WTC4, WTC7, and the memorial park.

[Unconstantean]

 
Man i beg you release them for SC4
as the song says "down on my knees, i'm begging you" 

[bombardiere]

Great work as before. 

At some point I will need to work out how to get all these models into a state of game-readiness 

Perhaps you can release these as a prop pack. I am sure that the lotters would scream in delight. 

[Tyberius06]

Oh dear! They are so beautiful!
As Bombardiere said, a prop pack would be perfect, like your previous one!

- Tyberius

[mattb325]

Amazing! 

If you need a hand with getting anything into game, just drop me a PM and I'll be happy to help 

[reddonquixote]

Thankyou 

Firstly, I've just done a bit more work on the 1 WTC Spire, I wasn't expecting as much detail to show up in the final render. This is more complete and accurate, as well as more detailed. If you think it needs anything else let me know...



Secondly - don't worry, everything is definitely being made to go into the game, and hence will be released as well. Not doing all this work for nothing 

There's just a couple of areas of concern that I don't yet know how I'm going to solve, without making everything eye-candy (as opposed to functional).

I set out to make the most realistic SC4 city recreation of Lower Manhattan using my own models, including accurate orientations, but this brings several challenges...

1. The Grid
Unlike the rest of Manhattan, Lower Manhattan is not based on a grid. Hence why, to my knowledge, no one has ever been able to recreate the area really accurately.

For example:


I've thought about forcing a grid, with clusters of buildings on one square lot and BATing the really difficult roads in (the lots would be TE'd), but in most sections there's no obvious natural breaks that don't intersect with other buildings.

2. Functional Transport systems
In particular:
Brooklyn Bridge - For the bridge to be functional, the entire map would need to be oriented so the bridge itself is perpendicular. Not so much of an issue, but it limits options for the rest of the map. As previously mentioned, the bow in the carriageway would need to be flattened as well.
FDR Drive - The angle is too steep for a functional highway without making crazy (and unrealstic) zigzags and bends along its length. This will need more thought...

3. Sea walls
I had originally thought the lots that intersect with the harbour could have props fashioned into seawalls, but as I found with Liberty island, its not easy to do and make work with everything else. Still, I don't see this as a major issue, just a headache.

Anyway, that's my thinking so far, I'd gratefully take any suggestions 

[mattb325]

^^ Wow, that detail is really sharp 

For the lot problem (I can't really offer any constructive tips on the other issues), you have a few options as I see it, all of them revolve around a ploppable lot with jobs:
1) Create the Lot Textures and then TE/path the lot; or
2) Create the road pieces as batted props and TE the first tile. As long as the road pieces are no more than 0.2m high, you can set them to receive shadows from surrounding buildings and props and then you can arrange the buildings and props on the lot around the batted road pieces; or
3) Bat the entire lot in sections that are joined together in game when plopped; or
4) Bat the buildings and some of the surrounding ground as overhanging props on 1x1 (for example) lots and drag the network such as Far pieces etc around the building to give the illusion. Ped malls can be placed in the gaps to get the network to add sidewalk textures to complete the illusion.

No 1) is probably the most involved, especially if like me, you haven't made lot textures before or used the SC4 path creator 

[art128]

Impressive details on the top of the WTC!

I like Matt's fourth idea of using FAR etc.

[Girafe]

Awesome recreation 

[reddonquixote]

Thanks Matt (and Art)..  I like the idea of no. 1, that was my original idea how to make it work, but as I look into it in more detail, I can't find rectangular lots very easily. If I combine with 4 (as Art suggests), then using a combination of textured/TE-pathed lots and overhanging props I should be able to get it to work. (I wonder, is pathing hard to do?)

I don't know much about FAR, is it part of NAM, and/or is there a development or instructional thread (or read-me) somewhere? Sorry to ask such a basic question  (FAR might only be semi-useful anyway, presumably it offers another variation from 90 and 45 degrees, but only some of which may conform to the map.

Thanks Girafe too 

[mattb325]

The FAR networks are part of the NAM and offer the ability for roads to be dragged at 33.7, 26.6 or 18.4 degrees (as opposed to just 0 or 45)...hopefully I haven't left any out 

[mgb204]

Simply WOW. This is so impressive even without texturing, you've clearly been busy. I can't recall seeing such a monolithic project like this being achieved before. But you are probably one of only a handful of people capable of seeing such a project through. Your progress here is testament to your abilities with 3DS Max. Just imagining seeing everything here textured and rendered in-game someday gives me chills and I'm not particularly a fan of NYC either.

For roads there is only FAR-2 and FAR-3 at present. I forget the angles of those, but it means 1 tile up for every 2 / 3 tiles along. But that does allow for a total of 24 differentially angled road choices. See this video for how to build these networks along with some of the WRC options. Bear in mind, there are limitations within FAR in terms of intersections and the like. But if you test it and things are "close enough", I'd consider filling any gaps with some new code/textures for you. This is one of those projects that really deserves those little touches, if you get to that stage.

Since you are handy with modelling, I'm guessing UV mapping is within your capabilities? Assuming it is, you can put a road anywhere, at any angle you can texture, using Overhanging S3D props. It's really not that hard to make, but limitations include not being functional and they really, really hate slopes. But it's another potential solution. I have to imagine for your purposes, batting them in would work too, although I really hate it when people do this .

You are limited to Ortho for regular draggable bridges, this is true. But to work, you need to break it up into parts, frankly at this level of quality, I think we can find a way to get this into the NAM, if that works for you. Of course you could simply cheat with Network --> Subway lots to make an eye-candy bridge function. However, if you were breaking it up into repeat pieces, it may just be possible to use rotated versions with the Advanced Bridge Enabler plugin (formally DBE). This would give you a diagonal variant for sure if the pieces lined up correctly, I suspect FAR might even be possible too. You'd need to make the Bridge Supports and Cabling separate props that are manually plopped into place. However, it looks doable to me. I'd guess though you have to stay somewhat true (in terms of the map), so as to keep the main gridded part of the city at the correct angle. Based on that, what sort of angle is most ideal for the bridge?

[reddonquixote]

Wow.. both so helpful thank you so much 

I thought next thing I better do is try creating some networks on the map to see how it might come to work (mgb - your video was extremely helpful, thankyou again)

Here's what I've created so far...





The biggest issue seems to be getting the intersections to join up, and more problematically for the lower-right section of map, is getting FAR pieces to intersect with other FAR pieces - I don't think they do that? I need to watch more NAM tutorials I think 

Here's also a copy of the map I've gridded up to use for reference (green are straight roads and orange are the FAR pieces I've added so far. This shows the angle the bridge would need to be. (I've oriented the map so Broadway runs straight down the middle)



I have to run, but I'd be grateful for any comments/suggestions on what I've done so far 

[bombardiere]

That grid over real life map is a cleaver idea.  I have couple of times tried to match
city street network on SC4. However I have just wanted it look rough approximation of real street map and I have never bothered to track down exact positions of the streets. I have just taken a shoreline or river curves and roughly estimated where the main roads should be.

Anyway. I think it is best to lay out the street grid first. Thus you can match our building models on it. You can made your buildings as overhanging props with sidewalks and yards, so that those will fit the street pattern. Perhaps some of minor street and alley could be made as props or lot textures as well.

[c.p.]

If you use FAR-3 for those roads on the lower right, there are FAR-3 x FAR-3 intersections which might be helpful, though you can only intersect those once every three tiles (as far as I know).  So the spacing probably wouldn't work out perfectly.  Anyway, super-impressive project so far.