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Offline jplumbley

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Prop Families
« on: December 25, 2006, 01:00:39 AM »
Hello to those LE gurus out there.

I am going on a lotting binge.  I am pretty good with the basics and have made quite a few practice lots.  Now I am looking to get into some of the more challenging stuff.  I am not sure how to make prop families, I know how to use them and what they do just dont know how to make them.  I thought I would stop in here and ask the question here before I go get myself lost in the ST Custom Content forums.

EDIT:  After quickly going through ST.  I have found nothing of use for Prop Families.  I did find a tutorial on creating Building Families.  I am guessing they are very similar.  But, the tutorial uses DatGen (I have never used DatGen before), is it easier to use DatGen or iLive Reader for creating these families?

Could someone make me a quick small tutorial on how to make my own prop families(if they are different from building families)?  That can also be able to be posted in the tutorials section here.

Thanks in advance.
JPlumbley
« Last Edit: December 25, 2006, 01:33:08 AM by jplumbley »
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Offline BarbyW

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Re: Prop Families
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2006, 02:15:34 AM »
Hi, JP.
There is no mystique about prop family making providing you have an IID range. There is a thread in the BSC Team Room to request a range so I'll go over there and look for the next IID set for you. Once you have you range, add the property Building/Prop family to the Exemplar of the prop you want and then insert one of the IIDs. Do that for each prop exemplar making sure that you use the same IID for each prop in a group, obviously change it for a different set of props ;D
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Offline jplumbley

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Re: Prop Families
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2006, 02:21:29 AM »
Thanks for the reply Barby.

I will go look for that thread over at ST.  Then I will try to make sense of what you said later when Im not falling asleep :P.
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Offline sam

Re: Prop Families
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2006, 02:22:56 AM »
The tutorial I used to use is on the STEX here:
http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=1117&v=1
Warning: If the tutorial says to use the RCI blank lot sets - Don't! They have some problems and are no longer used. Make your lots in the normal way.

I find Ilive Reader easiest to use for making prop families.


Below is the basic outline of how I do this:

Step 1. Ask Barbyw for an iid range for your prop families. (You only need to do this once, not every time you make a prop family). This way yours will not conflict with anyone elses.

Step 2. Create descriptor files (or prop exemplar files) for the props you want in the family.

Step 3. Using Ilive's Reader open the prop exemplar for the first prop in the family (it will be the exemplar in the descriptor file)

Step 4. Add the Building/prop Family property

Step 5. Make the first rep of that property one of the iids in your range (all props in the family will have this number). Apply the changes.

Step 6. Copy this property (right click on it, and Copy selected property to folder)

Step 7. Save the exemplar and close.

Step 8. Open the exemplar for the next prop in the family, and copy the property from the folder to the exemplar properties list (drag and drop). Save the exemplar and Close

Step 9. Repeat step 8 for all props in the family.


Edit: Barby beat me to it  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: December 25, 2006, 02:31:28 AM by sam »

Offline BarbyW

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Re: Prop Families
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2006, 02:27:11 AM »
Sam was much more awake than I and posted an excellent step by step. I have allocated 0xC0200000 to 0xC02FFFFF to you. If you have any more questions please ask and one of us will try to help.
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Offline jplumbley

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Re: Prop Families
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2006, 02:29:51 AM »
OK wow... this came all at once when I am about to goto bed its 3:30am here (Santas been and gone already)

Thanks for the awesome step by step sam.  And thanks for the IID Range Barby.
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Offline jeronij

Re: Prop Families
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2006, 05:25:17 AM »
Hi to all,

this information is quite useful, and I have decided to use it as the basis for a tutorial. The tutorial includes some additional features  ;) .

Topic: Creating your own prop Families (updated)
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Offline jplumbley

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Re: Prop Families
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2006, 08:55:10 PM »
That tutorial is great Jeronij.  Thanks.

Heres my next question.  Can a prop be in more than one prop family? Or do you have to make 2 separate exemplar files with the 2 different Parent Cohort IIDs for the Building/Prop Family?
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Offline jeronij

Re: Prop Families
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2006, 09:30:49 PM »
you can add aditional reps to the Building/Prop Family Property with the aditional families ID's you want the prop belong to.


mmmm, not sure about what I wrote right now....  :-[
« Last Edit: December 25, 2006, 09:33:28 PM by jeronij »
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Offline jplumbley

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Re: Prop Families
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2006, 12:11:27 AM »
Alright, I have followed this thing to the best of my abilities.  But now I am getting confused. 

My IID range is 0xc0200000 to 0xc02fffff.  I have chosen to use the IID 0xc021206a for my family. 

I am using CP trees which already have their own families.  I would like to keep those families and make a family using the single trees from all types.  So, for each of the tree prop Exemplars I added the Building/Prop Family property, value 0xc021206a. (this is correct right?)  Then I made a copy of one of the old Cohorts used before and used it as a template.  I changed the Name to AA_Single_Trees and the Building/Prop Family value to 0xc021206a. 

Then I changed the Cohort TGI so the IID was 0xd021206a.  Then saved and went into LE, it did not exsist in the Prop Family list.  I then tried with a few more values including 0xc021206a, 0xc001206a, 0xc000006a, 0xd000006a, 0xc031206a and 0xb000006a.  I tried the last one because in your tutorial it said all families should be 0xb0000---, stating that the first number should be 1 digit higher but it didnt work with my attempts with the D's.  When I did this the family showed up.  But it didnt have the Exemplars I chose, it used the ones from 0xa000006a, Im not sure how this worked since my Building/Prop Family was still set to 0xc021206a for the Cohort.

Any ideas?  Have I done something wrong that I overlooked or misread?
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Offline sam

Re: Prop Families
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2006, 12:44:54 AM »
you can add aditional reps to the Building/Prop Family Property with the aditional families ID's you want the prop belong to.


mmmm, not sure about what I wrote right now....  :-[

You can do this, but it is not advisable if you are using cohorts to name the families.

If you have multiple reps and used the cohorts, only the name of the first family will display in the LE and any subsequent families will also have the name of the first family, not the name it should have. I'm not at home right now, so I can't get a screenshot to illustrate.

If you want the prop in multiple families, it is best to have multiple exemplars, each with a different (single) family id. You can copy the exemplar, and give it a new group and instance to make the duplicate, or start again from the PIM.

Offline sam

Re: Prop Families
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2006, 12:56:51 AM »
ok jplumbley, I'm going to have a bit of trouble answering your question because I don't have my modding tools until I get home.

But firstly, its not advisable to modify any existing prop exemplars (that are already in a prop pack), especially if they have been publicly distributed. For example, taking one of Cycledoggs tree props and just adding the extra prop family iid rep, then saving cycledogg's pack with the changes you made. If you do this, and distribute your version as well, the two exemplar files will have the same iids as each other, but have different properties. Therefore if both are present on a players machine they will cause a conflict.

If you wish to use an existing prop exemplar, eg from cycledogg's prop pack, you must first make a copy of that exemplar. (Open the prop pack, find the exemplar, right click on it, copy file then start a new .dat file and paste the exemplar in your new file). Then, very importantly, and immediately, change the exemplar group and instance to a new, unique value (right click on your new exemplar, then click New Group and Instance). Save your new .dat with a new name.

Now on your new prop exemplar in your new dat file, you can delete the first rep of the Building/Prop Family property (which would be cycledogg's id) and replace it with your family id.

Now you have two separate prop exemplars. Both will still work properly, ie cycledogg's will still be in the family he put it in, and your new one will be in its new family, and no-one will have any conflicts.

I'll try to re-write this more coherently, and with pictures once I get home.

However I think your new family is not showing because its exemplar still has the same iid as cycledogg's exemplar, therefore the LE (and the game) is only reading one file and not the other.

Also, make sure that for anyone else's props that you use,  that you have their permission to modify them, before you distribute your modified versions.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2006, 12:58:57 AM by sam »

Offline jplumbley

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Re: Prop Families
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2006, 01:47:37 AM »
Thanks sam for your replies.

Quote
But firstly, its not advisable to modify any existing prop exemplars (that are already in a prop pack), especially if they have been publicly distributed. For example, taking one of Cycledoggs tree props and just adding the extra prop family iid rep, then saving cycledogg's pack with the changes you made. If you do this, and distribute your version as well, the two exemplar files will have the same iids as each other, but have different properties. Therefore if both are present on a players machine they will cause a conflict.

First off I would like to state, I am doing this for my own learning for now and my own personal uses.  I am quite aware of conflict issues and such, if one day I feel I have braught my skills in this area to a point where I feel ok to release something, I gaurentee I will have the permissions and that there should not be any conflicts.  But that day is far away. 

Quote
Now you have two separate prop exemplars.

This is probably where my mistake is.  I did not make a second exemplar, since Jeronij said it should work (maybe theres something else I needed to change if there are 2 Building/Prop Family properties in the same exemplar or they just conflict with each other).  Anyways, I will make my own DATs later when I have time its almost bedtime for me :P

I have nothing against the lots I have downloaded from all creators, I just would like to make them a little more uniform, using a select base of textures and props I would like to use.  In this case I am trying to make a Tree Prop family for single trees that I can use on lots where I have multiple homes, businesses etc (like SG Small Homes).

Essentially I am re-lotting my plugins folder to be a little more consistent to my tastes.  And learning about families will greatly increase my capabilities and speed!  Especially if I can make a lot for more than one building.  I made my first lot using Building/Prop Families already made the other day and here is a pic of how it turned out:



I need to get back into playing the game.  I have been learning alot in alot of different areas in the last 6 months and havent gotten a chance to play the game since my HD died in June.  I took the chance to learn as much as I could and here I am today, making maps as part of NHP, learning some transit modding, trying to get my way through Twrecks modding school which seemed to have vanished and now this...  One day I will have the knowledge to help others too.
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Offline sam

Re: Prop Families
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2006, 05:22:54 AM »
Alright, I have followed this thing to the best of my abilities.  But now I am getting confused. 

My IID range is 0xc0200000 to 0xc02fffff.  I have chosen to use the IID 0xc021206a for my family. 

I am using CP trees which already have their own families.  I would like to keep those families and make a family using the single trees from all types.  So, for each of the tree prop Exemplars I added the Building/Prop Family property, value 0xc021206a. (this is correct right?)  Then I made a copy of one of the old Cohorts used before and used it as a template.  I changed the Name to AA_Single_Trees and the Building/Prop Family value to 0xc021206a. 

Then I changed the Cohort TGI so the IID was 0xd021206a.  Then saved and went into LE, it did not exsist in the Prop Family list.  I then tried with a few more values including 0xc021206a, 0xc001206a, 0xc000006a, 0xd000006a, 0xc031206a and 0xb000006a.  I tried the last one because in your tutorial it said all families should be 0xb0000---, stating that the first number should be 1 digit higher but it didnt work with my attempts with the D's.  When I did this the family showed up.  But it didnt have the Exemplars I chose, it used the ones from 0xa000006a, Im not sure how this worked since my Building/Prop Family was still set to 0xc021206a for the Cohort.

Any ideas?  Have I done something wrong that I overlooked or misread?

Ok I'm home at my own computer now and I had another think about your problem. I'm just guessing here, as its hard to tell without looking at the file.

Some things to check:

Alright, I have followed this thing to the best of my abilities.  But now I am getting confused. 

...
I am using CP trees which already have their own families.  I would like to keep those families and make a family using the single trees from all types.  So, for each of the tree prop Exemplars I added the Building/Prop Family property, value 0xc021206a. (this is correct right?) 
...

If they already are assigned to a prop family then the Building/Prop Family property should already be present in the exemplar. You should be able to just double click this property and add your family iid to the end of the list (ie keep cycledogg's values, add a new value and put in your iid)
If you added the Building/Prop Family property again, you may have two copies in the exemplar file. This is not good, as the LE (and SC4) may be only reading one of the two.

...
Then I changed the Cohort TGI so the IID was 0xd021206a.  Then saved and went into LE, it did not exsist in the Prop Family list. 

If your prop family is c021206a then the cohort file iid should be d021206a I believe. I don't think you need the 0x when altering the TGI numbers of the cohort file itself.

Did you at this point ReIndex and Rebuild your directory file? When you add a file (such as copying and pasting a cohort file) you should do this to be safe. Otherwise the directory file may not register that there is an additional file.

If you are still having trouble in the morning, perhaps post your file, and maybe someone can take a look at it for you. I may not be able to look at it for 24 hours or so as I have a family get together tomorrow, but tomorrow night I may be able to. Or someone else may be able to look at it in the meantime.

Offline jeronij

Re: Prop Families
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2006, 05:28:07 AM »
I am checking this, but I dont have free time until this evening. IŽll come back later.
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Offline jplumbley

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Re: Prop Families
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2006, 04:56:05 PM »
Thanks Sam.  I was able to get it to work.

I saw something about percentages, where you can set up how often a prop will show compared to others.  Is that possible in iLive Reader?
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