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Author Topic: New Additions to RTMT  (Read 87579 times)

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Offline FrankU

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2008, 07:13:42 AM »
As I was the first to raise a question in this thread I cannot shut up now.

A fool can ask more questions than ten wise men can answer....

Wow, what a discussion did come up! I read about possibilities I never thought of.

As I asked wether it would be possible to use SAM textures in RTMT stations I want to make a counting.

1. There are bus stations and subway stations and combinations of these. I can do without the single subway and would only need bus station and bus+subway station. Makes 2 combinations.
2. There are stops for straights, diagonals, T-crossings and X-crossings. = 4 combinations.
3. There are roads, one-way-roads, avenues, streets, 5 kids of SAM. = 9 combinations.
4. Then we have GLR stations straight and diagonal. =2
5. GLR only, GLR with bus, GLR with bus+sub, but I could do without the GLR only = 2
6. GLR in Avenue or GLR nex to avenue = 2

So the number of stations needed is:
1-3: 2x4x9 = 72
4-6: 2x2x2 = 16

Makes 88 stations!

Not nice to throw into your menu. Tabrings would be great, but appear to be impossible.
A DAMN solution is possible and workable, I guess... So perhaps we need to wait for that to be released.

Furthermore: I learned a lot form this discussion and thank all of you very much. I am really curious what this project is leading to.

Offline MandelSoft

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2008, 07:47:34 AM »

3. There are roads, one-way-roads, avenues, streets, 5 kids of SAM. = 9 combinations.

To correct you, there are 7 kinds of SAM (parking lot, brick, trails, gravel, dirt, asphalt, cobblestone, brick2)

So the correct number of stations needed is:
1-3: 2x4x11 = 88
4-6: 2x2x2 = 16

That's 104 stations! A huge ammount of stations! I agree that's a little too large for a menu.
Lurk mode: ACTIVE

Offline Diggis

Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2008, 08:10:28 AM »
Ahh, but stations for the Parking lots, aren't really that important, and neither for the gravel and dirt, which actually leave 4.  And trails? There are 2 dirt roads.  (oh and you listed 8 :D

Offline FrankU

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2008, 10:07:23 AM »
Well, I must admit that I was not sure about the amount of relevant SAM textures, because I am at the office now and are not allowed to play SC4 here. I am considered to do some RL work. &mmm
So this was a guess, but the message is clear: many lots!

Offline cogeo

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2008, 12:06:45 PM »
Even for supporting "only" 4 or 5 textures, the number of lots is still too large. Not only it's too much work to do, and will clutter the menu, it can also prove a maintenance hog. I think I will contact Daeley to see if we can do something with scripts.

Offline RippleJet

Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2008, 12:25:18 PM »
I love the new look of the RTMT's that z presented in the first post! :)
Despite knowing that they interfere with the pathfinding, I can't help using them myself either... $%#Ninj2


I think I will contact Daeley to see if we can do something with scripts.

You could contact Diggis as well! :thumbsup:
He's been helping Daeley with the DAMN.

Offline zakuten

Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2008, 12:50:46 PM »
Oh, yeh, they're real nice looking. My only confusion is why the U gets painted on the road, hahah~
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Offline z

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2008, 03:01:23 PM »
I love the new look of the RTMT's that z presented in the first post! :)
Despite knowing that they interfere with the pathfinding, I can't help using them myself either... $%#Ninj2

I'm glad you like the new look!  Over time, we will be adding new station props, and making it easier for users to select a consistent set for their cities.

But there's more good news, in that RTMT stations don't interfere with pathfinding.  So there's no reason to feel guilty about using them.  For a full explanation of why this is so, please see FAQ #3 and its associated reference.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 03:12:23 PM by z »

Offline cogeo

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2008, 03:25:35 PM »
@Ripplejet, by "scripts" I didn't mean a DAMN set (btw we would of course welcome Diggis if he wants to help, or undertake it completely), I meant to check if it's possible to avoid employing multiple lots.

@zakuten, the "U" is the german U-Bahn logo, and it is released on the STEX, as German MT Road Markings. This replaces the original (BUS/STOP and SUB/WAY) markings, and of course is optional (you can select the original ones or even remove them altogether). This (ie having configurable road markings) is one of the "customisation" features or RTMT.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 03:28:26 PM by cogeo »

Offline zakuten

Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2008, 04:48:59 PM »
Ah, OK. I always just thought it was weird to write it on the street. Maybe if we go into customization, one with only just bus markings might be nice...?  ;)
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Offline callagrafx

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2008, 03:41:29 AM »
group hug  :thumbsup:
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it

Offline nerdly_dood

Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2008, 09:50:17 PM »
I personally would like to see as much functionality as possible without regard to the number of lots used. If possible I'd like to see a tab loop for them, unless that is only possible for puzzle pieces and interchanges. If not...then...we'll have to accept tradeoffs. I'm already used to a cluttered menu, so I guess if the lots are arranged logically, I'll be fine with 88 lots. (The SAM types I use are cobblestone, PEG gravel, black asphalt, brick, and the occasional muddy brown street) But if a DAMN setup can be used, then I'd prefer that, but I haven't the faintest idea how DAMN menus work, or for that matter how exactly they are used.

Edited.  -Alex (Tarkus)

Oh, hmm, okay - I'm cool with that.  -nerdly_dood
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 10:14:46 PM by nerdly_dood »
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Offline z

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2008, 10:50:55 PM »
I agree with you - our whole purpose here is to add functionality.  But we also want to do it in a way that's as easy to use as possible, which in this case means not cluttering up the menus if we can avoid it.  I personally like to do things elegantly, and one reason I joined this project was that I saw that elegance present in cogeo's work.  As Alex pointed out, TAB loops won't work in this situation.  Fortunately, DAMN sounds like the perfect solution here, and at some point early on in our coming development, I expect we'll be switching to DAMN.  I've seen some brief demos, and it looks very easy to use.  If and when we incorporate DAMN, full instructions on using it will be included.

As cogeo pointed out a while back, there's a lot of work involved in doing even a few sets of stations, especially when you take into account maintenance and updates.  So far, we haven't had any volunteers for RTMT Team Members, although we have been getting a good response for testers.  If any of you would like to help turn the proposals in this thread into reality, then by all means check out the Call for RTMT Team Members and Testers thread.  Also, if any of you know people with the appropriate skills who might be interested, but who are unaware of these positions, please let them know.  Thank you.

Offline zakuten

Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2008, 03:15:55 AM »
Not sure if this is strictly RTMT as opposed to a NAM thing, but I'd like to see, and I know this is completely out of the blue, more "wayside"-type stops on roads. I was in China for class in May, and I noted that most of their highways indeed had bus-stops integrated in. I have one lot that does such, but I was wondering if anyone else was interested in the idea of it at all...?
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Offline z

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2008, 03:58:16 AM »
Deadwoods has an excellent pair of ground highway transit hubs here and here; I don't know if either of these is the lot you have.  Also, if you put a regular bus stop right next to a highway (ground or otherwise), it actually works, even if it's not near any sort of ramp.  I think that Deadwoods' solution is especially good; it even includes a subway station.  I'm not sure anything more than that is required.  But we're always open to suggestions.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 05:23:43 AM by z »

Offline zakuten

Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2008, 04:02:14 AM »
Oh, yeah, that is actually it. However, I didn't indeed have both versions. ~goes and snags the brick one~ Yeah, that's what I had. I'd thought more like for maybe one half of an RHW-4, though, specifically.
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Offline z

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2008, 05:44:43 PM »
I can certainly see how this would be valuable for RHW.  But as Deadwoods has already done most of the work here, I would suggest contacting him and seeing if he were willing to make RHW versions of these lots.  If so, that would be by far the most efficient way to proceed.  Or if he's too busy, perhaps he knows someone who would be willing to do the work on those particular lots.  If we were to do something, it would probably be in conjunction with Deadwoods, but that's a long way down the road, as we have a number of higher priority projects to do first.  So I agree that these stations would be a good idea, but I think Deadwoods is the man to talk to.

EDIT:  If you do contact Deadwoods, please post here and let us know what you find out.  Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 07:09:51 PM by z »

Offline cogeo

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2008, 03:05:48 PM »
Ah, OK. I always just thought it was weird to write it on the street. Maybe if we go into customization, one with only just bus markings might be nice...?  ;)

Hmmm, having markings for both busstops and subways is a feature carried over from version 2. Some players claim (and they are basically right) that subway markings are not realistic, and shouldn't be placed on the road as subways don't affect road traffic. Plus I'm not really aware of any subway markings (on the road) in the real world (if anyone does, pics are welcome). I guess these were put for uniformity and/or completeness; another reason might be that version 2 didn't actually had any subway (stairs) props, so it wasn't easy to tell wether the tile was a subway station or not, without these markings. I didn't change this in version 3, but version 3 is different in that the markings set is optional and interchangeable (all markings are contained in a single plugin). This makes it possible to use alternative or custom sets. The German set mentioned above is an exmaple (though I don't know if such markings really exist - any Gernan user please?). Another example is the British set (linkie). This one contains busstop markings only; bus stops and bus+subway stations have bus markings while subway (-only) stations have no markings.

So making a busstops-only markings set is possible, although the RTMT stations set actually supports textures for subways too. And most importantly, making road markings sets is independent from the RTMT "core", ie custom markings can be made and installed without having to update the station lots. So if someone wants to make, say Chinese markings, all he has to do is make a set of overlay textures (using some specific IDs, of course), and not update the lots. That is, there are going to be Chinese markings, not Chinese RTMT stations. Everyone interested in making a custom markings set, please PM or post.

Just a note here, due to limited capacity we cannot respond promptly to such requests. But you can post your ideas (or even requests) here, and maybe some people with texture-making (imaging) skills may find them interesting -or we could include it in the next release.
Actually we need some "artists" to join the team. If you have graphics design skills (Photoshop, Paintshop Pro or Gimp), please consider becoming a team member or associate.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 11:30:07 AM by cogeo »

Offline Andreas

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2008, 04:29:33 PM »
You won't find any markings for subway on the road surface - I suggested this back then when the first RTMT set was in the making, because the original lots had the English word "SUBWAY" written on the textures. A German subway station is indicated with the white "U" on blue background, but only on a signpost, or maybe attached to a wall.
Andreas

Offline FrankU

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Re: New Additions to RTMT
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2008, 06:31:25 AM »
Well, actually I can't remember to have seen road top bus markings in any country I ever visited: a lot of European countries, and Israel and Egypt.
There are just bus stop signs next to the road.

Subwaysigns the same...