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Author Topic: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?  (Read 34092 times)

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Offline RippleJet

Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« on: April 02, 2008, 07:03:20 PM »
This was previously discussed in a thread called How to control buildings to grow?
Since those posts will be forgotten when memory fades, I decided to move the essential information into here.
If you have questions about functional ploppable landmarks, please feel free to continue the discussion.






Why we should refrain from plopping functional landmarks

The city shown below is from a region with just two equally sized, very small towns:



This city, as well as its neighbour, has a well balanced supply and demand of work and residential homes.
The reported regional residential capacity is 564, and there is a demand for almost every RCI type.



Now, let's say the mayor of this town decided he wanted to speed up its development.
He knows nothing about the simulation of real life, but that cannot be that important...
He is very much interested in being able to say when and where a skyscraper should be built though...

Thus, he calls for some extra moolah, picks a site and plops a tower:



Despite its size, this tower only has slightly above 1,000 jobs, but hey, we need it for the eye-candy effect!
And let's not exaggerate the town's expansion...

Two months after the mayor plopped his tower, the Census Repository is reporting 1,126 CO§§§ jobs in the city.
They also report a massive negative demand for further CO§§§, but that was expected...

And the mayor is particularly satisfied to see an increase in the residential demand, especially R§§.
Maybe this little town could see some highrises already...



Knowing nothing about real life (simulation), he thought he would soon get stage 8 residentials.
Even if only stage 1 houses have appeared so far...

One month later he gets an annoying call from the Census Repository.
People have started to commute into town from elsewhere, 866 in just one month.
And where are they coming from? There isn't enough workforce in the region to explain the commuters coming to us...



And hey, they aren't even working in our town... 540 of them are commuting out of town for work...

Yet another month later the situation has escalated...



Another two months later the situation seems to have stabilized, but the mayor wonders if he should be happy.
The population of his town has grown slightly, and there are lots of vacant jobs:



However, due to his plopping, the regional capacity is now reported to be above 4,000.
That is an imaginary figure though, the real capacity is still about 600, nothing has happened to the neighbouring town...

The reported regional residential capacity is now more than 40% of the long-term regional demand of 9,395. It used to be about 16%...
Plop a bigger tower, and soon there will be enough imaginary residents in the region to halt development alltogether.

Besides, the number of commuters is behaving irrationally...
There are now 1,749 commuters coming into town and 2,236 going out of town.
But the local workforce is still only 142. Are those commuters breeding?

Now, the mayor got a bit nervous... with thousands of commuter going through his town...
Surely the traffic situation must be horrible now, hope I can still be able to cruise around my quiet neighbourhood.

Looking at the traffic report he was perplexed though:



There are no commuters going through his town, the only traffic across the border are a few freight trucks.
There are only 42 workers in the tower with a current capacity of 1,044.

All those commuters that plopping the tower added are imaginary and eternal.
They have exactly the same effect on the demand simulators as the eternal commute circles around city corners.





When can we plop a functional landmark?

Now, the discussion above does not mean that you cannot plop functional landmarks in the game.
However, you need to be sure there is a demand for the building you're plopping. ;)

The simulator is fully capable of handling a plopped commercial and even a plopped industrial, if there is a demand for the type of RCI they represent.
The effect in that case is the same as if a similar building would grow, it satisfies a demand for capacity that exists.

Thus, if you want to plop a skyscraper providing 5,000 CO§§§ jobs, make sure you do have a demand for CO§§§ at that level!

Ploppable commercial towers should be rewards, available only if the actual demand is larger than its capacity. ::)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 10:18:58 AM by RippleJet »

Offline RippleJet

Ploppable Residentials, Functional or not?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2008, 07:04:45 PM »
Ploppable Residentials, Functional or not?

Regarding ploppable residentials, please consider this:

The residential capacity reported is depending on desirability factors.
If desirability goes down, and the actual capacity drops below 50%, the building will dilapidate or become abandoned.

The biggest residential desirability factor is the employment. If people can't get employed they usually leave as soon as possible.

Desirability can be increased through other factors, e.g. education, health, land value, park effect, lack of crime, etc.
If you're able to compensate the negative effect of unemployment by these factors, you obviously are able to plop residentials.

Likewise, freight time is a desirability factor for industrials, but not as severe as the unemployment for residentials.
Thus, plopped industrials have a lot better chance of surviving.

For a plopped residential not to abandon right away, the desirability factors must be right when plopping.
That is the reason you have to plop them on top of an existing residential building with a good existing employment.

but...

First of all, even if the desirability is high, the chances are slim that you will get any occupancy in the residential building when you plop it.
Secondly, if you do manage to get an occupancy in it, the chances are still very slim that it would stay occupied for any longer period.

My experience is that it isn't worth the hassle to try to keep the desirability factors high enough for a building where unemployed people live.
Once you for some reason have managed to get a reduced desirability in the area (increased traffic, pollution, crime, etc.),
the building would become abandoned. And once it has abandoned it will never, ever become reoccupied.

Thus, knowing this, I have always said, and will always continue to say, that plopped residentials do not work.
Most people elsewhere wouldn't understand the more subtle explanation given here. ;)

Offline j-dub

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Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2008, 07:44:50 PM »
My ? is could this be modified so ploppable residentials don't screw up, that they can work like commercial does with no apparent vehicle connection. I have noticed the opposite with an apartment highrise. I clicked on the ?, it was abandoned, but then later after 30 minutes on tripple speed, the dilaphitation, all of a sudden disapeared, and then it was back to normal, and actually said 1350 of 1370 residents. There are other times when the building is dilaphitated, but not abandoned, maybe because it corrects itself. Generally my game bases this on commute times. Also, when I zone, at first it may say commute long, which will cause abandonment if not fixed, but the problem either gets worst, or corrects itself in playmode, versus when I plop houses, its stuck on long commute, no matter what the population specs, I tried this in an empty city and doesn't get fixed. Basically the programming of the ploppable residential was never there to begin with, so its all bad. RippleJet  is right.

Offline Pat

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Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2008, 09:05:09 PM »
Tage thank you for this informative postings about plops w/RCI vs candy lots... I will have to reread it a few times over and over to fully grasp what Ive read but I get the basics that if there is no demand it will more or less throw off false reports, if im following that right?

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Offline sithlrd98

Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2008, 08:19:46 PM »
I'm pretty sure I get the jist of this , but I do re-lot some of my res And com to be just  regular landmarks...is this also going to negatively affect my city?

Offline zakuten

Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2008, 12:33:50 AM »
A side question, but where do you get this Census bureau? I only have the older version...
Visit my MD Respublikii Anaksii , or the reboot CJ "Kara`i Shores" since the region wiped, at http://www.simtropolis.com/cityjournals/?p=toc&id=919 !
All comments are welcome! (Hopefully someday I can re-splice 'em together, but we'll see)

Offline wouanagaine

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Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2008, 01:32:34 AM »
go here, http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=41&threadid=84816
read the first post by ripplejet, the file is attached to that post

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Offline xxdita

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Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2008, 12:09:25 PM »
Regular landmarks don't have this problem, because they don't have residents or jobs.

Offline Pat

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Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2008, 03:47:58 PM »
I was having a chat with someone the other day about this very subject anyways aint it true if that you have the demand for the building you want to plop it will actualy substain and not go hay wire?  Or is that a completly diffrent train of thought on this?

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Offline RippleJet

Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2008, 07:06:01 PM »
I was having a chat with someone the other day about this very subject anyways aint it true if that you have the demand for the building you want to plop it will actualy substain and not go hay wire?  Or is that a completly diffrent train of thought on this?

That's what it's all about when plopping functional landmarks with commercial jobs, yes! ;)

Offline zakuten

Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2008, 08:37:31 PM »
Thankee kindly, Wouanagaine!
Visit my MD Respublikii Anaksii , or the reboot CJ "Kara`i Shores" since the region wiped, at http://www.simtropolis.com/cityjournals/?p=toc&id=919 !
All comments are welcome! (Hopefully someday I can re-splice 'em together, but we'll see)

Offline Pat

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Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2008, 09:27:55 PM »
Kewl thank you Tage!!!

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Offline sithlrd98

Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2008, 11:54:57 AM »
Regular landmarks don't have this problem, because they don't have residents or jobs.

Thanks Dita , Just checking  :thumbsup:

Offline Denon333

Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2008, 09:07:45 PM »
I don't have any real problems with Functional Landmarks(or The mod Funtional Landmarks), it is because I have the Super Demand Mod.Sure, from the start it causes your CO$$$ and CO$$ demand to fall but with enough education,healthcare,police and fire,in the long term,it helps with development as ploping more will bring more 'kaching!', more residential demand and only a small effect on CO$$$ or CO$$ demand.So this is how I put it(If there are no neighbouring cities):
Ploping Funtional Landmarks: Short Term: Costs money and affects demand
                                       Long Term: Brings in more residential demand

Offline RippleJet

Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 06:17:47 AM »
it is because I have the Super Demand Mod.

Ahhh, but most devoted players don't want to cheat... ::)

SC4 is supposed to simulate real life city growth.
I wonder what the Super Demand Mod would correspond to in real life... $%Grinno$%

Offline Diggis

Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2008, 06:29:55 AM »
Economic boom.  Followed by a recession, when you removed it.  :D

Offline joelyboy911

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Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2009, 09:08:01 PM »
Very useful information RippleJet.

Economic boom.  Followed by a recession, when you removed it.  :D

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Offline blade2k5

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Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2009, 09:50:40 PM »
Ahhh, but most devoted players don't want to cheat... ::)

SC4 is supposed to simulate real life city growth.
I wonder what the Super Demand Mod would correspond to in real life... $%Grinno$%

Excuse me ()what()  Cheat? :o  Supposed to simulate real life city growth?  That part may be true in a sense of purity, but cheating?  That's a mighty strong word my friend :P  I prefer to build my cities the way I want them at my pace instead of the game dictating all of that [that and I make so many pretty maps that I want to develop them all ::) ]  I would prefer the term "semi-realistic real city growth that could be possible if given a dash of fantasy plus all the stars being aligned just at the right time allowing for certain breakthroughs made scientifically in which technology took a giant leap forward and if the law of physics were different than what we understand today."  Doesn't that have a better ring to it?  :D

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Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2009, 06:26:00 AM »
SC4 is supposed to simulate real life city growth.

Firstly, supposed to is the operative word here, hence CAM! And thanks Tage for that!  :P

Quote
I wonder what the Super Demand Mod would correspond to in real life...

Dubai?  $%Grinno$%
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Offline RippleJet

Re: Ploppables with Jobs and Residents. Why not?
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2009, 02:52:52 PM »
Doesn't that have a better ring to it?  :D

It most certainly does! :D


Dubai?  $%Grinno$%

Ahh, yes, they just had a CTD, removed the demand mod and restarted in Vanilla version... ::)