Japanese SC4 Links

[snorrelli]

I dont know ....what will happen after one year ?, it will be really difficult and time consuming to find a download link. I think we should organize the links from the beginning, in a way that allows the members to find what they are looking for. Maybe even a locked thread, where only mods can post, where you can find the links, and then other discussion threads about the downloads.
snorelli, what does your experience say ?¿

Hmmm... This is a tough question .

First off - no problem in posting KS's new BAT in this thread, MAS71 . Clearly we haven't figured out yet how to handle things like this and since I already posted the Diet building here, posting other new discoveries was a natural thing to do.

For sure, the experience at Simtropolis indicates that one thread, where all new BATs are posted and discussed, becomes cumbersome over time. It's only good for new releases. Once someone wants to find something that was released months ago, the person basically has to just ask where to find it because it's too much trouble to go back through 30 pages of the thread to look for it.

There are a couple of options I see for how to do it differently (and probably more ideas than this - so if anyone has a better idea, please speak up):

1. We can have a sort of "Japanese BAT Catalogue" - thumbnail pics, description and download links of new releases. This would be a closed thread, along the lines of what jeronij described. Another example (without pics) is Ragutaro's BAT List. It would be a massive undertaking to go and catalogue the BATs that have already been released, but over time we may be able to make some progress with older BATs as well.

2. Each new release could be posted by whoever discovers it in a new thread of its own. Each new BAT could then be discussed, showed off and support provided in its own thread and they could be found by people looking for them later by the title of the thread. To keep down the clutter, a special sub-forum could be created for individual Japanese BAT releases.

The advantage of option 1 would be a clear, concise and easily accessible catalogue for fast and efficient downloading. A disadvantage would be the maintenance task for site staff to keep the catalogue current. I am also not sure what the effect on the bandwidth of SC4D or the Japanese sites would be if we facilitate hotlinking to downloads on such a large scale. Finally, I think there's something to be said for encouraging people to actually explore the Japanese sites for themselves.

Option 2 would be more "community friendly" since anyone who discovered a BAT could let people know by opening a new thread for it. Unfortunately, it would also be more difficult to go back and find a specific BAT since you would have to sort through multiple threads, without the benefit of thumbnails. Also, the effect of so many separate threads on bandwidth might be even worse than for option 1.

I think either of these options is better than having one long, ongoing thread where new releases are posted (like the Massively Gigantic Japanese BAT Gallery at ST). I guess one step would be to find out which would be better for the technical resources of the site?

About the updates to the links - thanks, MAS71, for pointing those out. I had no idea Caribou is the same person as Rougetsu or that he had his own site. I've already downloaded a couple of his older stations that I had been looking for.

Sim-ism is still active. The link has just slightly changed. I have updated it in the links. I have also restored the links to the other three sites, even though they appear to be down at the moment. I have found that some of these sites tend to come and go, so 1 month or 1 year from now, who knows...

[MAS71]

Thank you very much Snorrelli for your polite and detailed opinion.

uuum...It's a very defficult basic problem
The thread expands, and the thing that information that users sees increases is true not avoided.
This is one of the proposals of me. 


1. This thread (Here) is devoted to the link to the site related to SC4 of Japan to the last.

2. make a new thread about "Announceing new Jpanese BAT(other works)" (just said Vester)
Here is a thread about only of the announcement of the appearance of all new Japanese works.

3. and, Thread that has already been made as of now.
about "SOMY"san. "NOB"san, "YH"san....
I think that it may make the thread of the main character externals of the Japanese Creater how many another.
("Rag-Tarou"san "APTX"san "ks_JPN"san....and about Other authors are brought together in one.)
An individual question is done by these individual author's thread.


The usage of a lot of BAT(MOD) of Japanese is very simple.
There are not need many Dependencies and more.
(Small number of works are excluded.)
so It is thought that the question on them from the people other Japanese never increases.

It seems to need the "SC4DJ(SC4 Devotion Japan)" to introduce details in Japanese all works.
It is most difficult. 

uuummm......
I'm sorry....My idea is not settled, and not expressible well (with English).


Oh my....(lol)
Please add to Japanese Site Links List a my WIKI "SIMTROPOLIS MODDs,BATs,LOTs" when you have free times.

[vester]

MAS san, I am thinking along the same lines.

MAS san: about Dependencies, if one have a question or a feeling from the translation of a Japanese text, that there is dependencies,
would you be welling to help out, sorting out the translations and get hold of what dependencies there is and where to find them ?
Know it would be a big job, but it would be an even bigger one for non Japanese

[Odainsaker]

Though unforeseen, the Massively Gigantic BAT thread certainly ballooned to just that, and is definitely a learning example to be avoided.  One big thread like that allowed for no organization.

I do like the solution by MAS71-san of having first a master introductory thread with webpage list followed by a separate "New Release Announcement" thread.

Aside from the release announcements, the hulking ST thread tends towards another type of quick incidental posts: "where can I find this ___".   It is inevitable that such questions will be made and repeated, and we all really do want to be helpful in spreading these great BATs in an organized fashion.  So perhaps we can funnell all these help requests into their own thread, a "Help Request! Where Can I Find This" thread.  It will get long over time, there will be repeated requests, the attention will be fleeting and the replies just direciton pointers, but it should be recognized for what it is, and replied to in a way that is helpful.

Of course, the best help is allowing browsing users to find things themselves, so I do like a BAT list much like the BAT List by Ragutaro-san.  Perhaps we need not a full thumbnail catalogue with direct links, but perhaps just a author/website list, with sublists of each major individual BAT or theme that can be found on their page.  Hence, a person looking for the National Diet, could skim down the list till they find it listed under the website for author Nanashi no boon, and then click the author's website to go there.  This thread would have to be locked, and edited as needed, requiring maintainers.

The forum thus could look like this:

Starting Stickies:
A Warm Welcome to the Japanese Community
Japanese SC4 Webpages
Japanese BAT List

New Release Anouncements
Help! Where Can I Find This ___?
Help Thread for Japanese Players

Regular Topics:
Somy Amazes Us
Great Project Underway....
Ragutaro Devotion
APTX Amazes Us
New Theme Set in the works...
NOB Fan Club
.
.
.

Well, its a start.  There are several other ways to do or arrange this, but at least these forums still have the starting options before everything grows out-of-hand.  Good Luck!

[jeronij]

I am really satisfied to see how you all are suggesting and apporting solutions to this matter 
I am sure we will find a balanced solution 

[snorrelli]

Forgive me, folks... I'm traveling at the moment (greetings from sunny Cairo, by the way) and I don't have much time.

I've read the posts here and will try to process the info and respond some time this weekend...

[MAS71]

Wao!! You are in Cairo now!?

No problem Snorrelli san!! Take it easy please!!
before at all,
Please be carfull your traveling and have nice it Snorrelli san!!
What would you get the souvenir for us?? (It's a joke! )

Let's do not hurry up and jog 

------------------------------------------------------------

to Vester san.

if one have a question or a feeling from the translation of a Japanese text, that there is dependencies,
would you be welling to help out, sorting out the translations and get hold of what dependencies there is and where to find them ?

Yes!! ofcaourse!!
I want to help for my being able to do about it.
but I can't it that is no rest by 24 hours.

I never forget your(SC4D's friedns!) gratitude!

[MAS71]

Hello everyone
I think that hope to add this on site to the List of "Japanese SC4 Sites" please.


This site is Screen Shots Collection of the SC4 that made by KAZUKI san make full use many world's BATs.
and Many Japanese who have begun to play in SC4 are surprised to watch his pics the beautiful spectacle city.
They are the beautiful row of houses along a city street which is as good as a Mayors of SC4D.
and It may be to be an element of one creating charm of the wonderful towns that use his original LOT.
(Unfortunately,He does not sharing his original LOTs.)

こちらのサイトは、世界の沢山のBATを駆使してKAZUKIさんによって作られたスクリーンショット集です。
SC4を遊び始めの沢山の日本人は、彼の綺麗な景観都市をみてまず驚かされます
KAZUKIさんの造る町並みは、ここSC4Devotionの沢山の市長達にも勝るとも劣らない美しさを持っています。
また、KAZUKIさんオリジナルのLotを使用している事も素敵な街の要因の一つです。
(残念ですが、彼のオリジナルLOTの配布は一切行われていません。）


"ScreenShots of SC4 by KAZUKI" is HERE.
http://www.h2.dion.ne.jp/~kazuki/











and more cities,harbors,suburbs,seaports......


***** I got his permission about an introduction his site here. *****
Thank you KAZUKI san.
Kazukiさん、掲載の際の快い許可。ありがとうございます。

[Asahi]

Let me note that considering the peculiar notion the Japanese people have towards linking, creating a direct download link (which I believe is what snorrelli proposes in option #1) could be frowned upon by the Japanese creators. A lot of websites discourage or prohibit "deep linking" and only allow other sites to link to their top index page. NOB's "hIMAGINE" is one of them.
Although I personally think that those restrictions go against the whole idea of WWW, this view isn't shared universally, and I think I understand why -- they could be viewing the sites as a "home", and for them deep linking is comparable to going in through the back door.

So, that means we could only take them to each site's top pages, and we have to have the downloaders navigate through the Japanese sites by themselves. However, some of the greatest websites have no English navigation available (like Ragutaro's), so we might have to provide detailed explanation. And I think the explanation for Ragutaro's site would go best on a topic for Ragutaro, doesn't it? So I think MAS71's idea to have topics separated by creators is a good idea. That way, we won't have too large topic that goes on for like 50 pages, and we won't have too many small topics, which could be a problem also.

Edit: a little correction

[snorrelli]

Good ideas here - thanks to everyone for your insight and creative thinking on this matter...

Asahi, I had no idea the opinion you mentioned exists among Japanese site operators. That gives me some cause for concern. Linking directly to downloads was the main focus of the Japanese BAT Gallery thread at ST and is central to almost all the ideas expressed here as well. If that will be offensive to the Japanese creators and site operators we are linking to, we may have to rethink things here.

In the meantime, here is another idea that is an attempt to combine some of the suggestions above:

1. We could have a "Japanese BAT Gallery" thread that includes a first post that repeats across pages (as happens with the links post in this thread).

2. The first post could include thumbnail pics of BATs, organized by creator/site, with links to the home page or index only (not download links for each BAT). This way people could at least identify what they want and find out where to go to get it.

3. The rest of the thread could be for announcing new releases. That process could go on infinitely and as new releases are posted a thumbnail can be added to the first post, under the name of the creator or site.

I am still dreading the "management task" of cataloguing all the Japanese BATs that are out there, but not having to provide download links to each one would make it easier. Let me know what you think...

MAS71, I have added Kazuki's fantastic screen shots to the links list and have added your site back to the list as well. I had previously moved it to the Help Thread for Japanese Players because I thought it would not be useful for western players, since it provides Japanese translations and support for downloads from "our world."

In fact, you may not have noted the links listed added to the first post of that thread. I have tried to provide the same kind of thing for Japanese players to find all of our sites as we have in this thread for western players to find Japanese sites...

[MAS71]

To all, I must do disappointing news today.

APTX san has closed his site "8590".
He is a student of university now, and seems to want to devote himself to job hunting now.
The current Japanese finding employment situation is very severe for students.

However,
I(We) believe that he will come back again with good news and his renewedding his site soon.

Now,We can't down load his many good works anymore.
but You can get his some works on the SIMTROPOLIS.


Thank you very much APTX san!!
I hope to that you will come back again to SC4.

[jeronij]

Yes, these are bad news indeed  , but Real Life is before the game of course 

I hope he founds a job soon (if he is a designer he wont have any problem at all  ) so he can come back and continue his show 

The best luck for APTX 

[Gaston]

はい非常に悪いニュースMASさん。彼がサイトを上げたままにしておくことができないか、恐らく、LEXに材料を転送することができないことは残念です。&idea Iは、彼に世界職探しでの運をすべて祈ります。うまくいけば、彼は、彼にまだSim都市で公演する少しの時間を与えるものを見つけるでしょう。

Yes very bad news MAS-san .     Too bad he cannot leave his site up or maybe transfer his stuff to the LEX.          I wish him all the luck in the world job hunting.    Hopefully he will find something that will allow him a bit of time to still play Sim City.


---Gaston

[ABCsan]

APTX site closed ････.
When it only had to download everything, it regrets. 

[MAS71]

Continuation of APTX(8590) site!!

He seems to continue an exhibition of his works!!
but He would not make new works for a while.


I write the details later....
(I must go to bed )

[soulstealer]

I realy like the looks of this downtown. it's very realistic imo. I got this pic at Kei's bats site but cant seem to locate the building
can anyone with some jap skills help me locate those great buildings?

[MAS71]

to soulstealer.

Their LOTs "Building housing offices Sets" are not distributed yet.
He seems to be producing(making) their now.
(We can see him comment about it at this page.)

I(We) look forward to completion!

[skyliner]

THose will be perfect for my Japanese CJ! Did Kei-san shutdown all of his downloads? Because i cant acess his houses

[MAS71]

to Skyliner san.

Please relieve
You can get him works from him site now

He continuously opens an existing work to the public now though he doesn't make a new work for a while.
(I confirmed that possible download him works, now!)

but....
It seems not to be able to download some works......
We shall wait for that he corrects it.

[snorrelli]

Hi folks,

I'm back home now after a looooong trip. Counting the connections, I've been through nine airports in the past three weeks - a personal record I hope not to break anytime soon.

So - back to figuring out what we do with this forum. I notice there hasn't been any further commentary, so either my long-winded messages have burned out the online translators , or we've thrown all the ideas we have on the table for the time being.

If that's the case, I'm going to proceed with the following:

1. A new thread called "Japanese BAT Gallery". I know it's not very creative but it is simple and clear (other suggestions are welcome too). The thread will be dedicated to new releases and will have a first post that repeats across pages, where the new releases will be listed in thumbnail form, under the link to the creator's homepage. The first post will grow over time and will make for easy visual reference if people are looking for something that has been announced in the thread, without having to search through every page of the thread to find it again. We'll see what we can do to list older works, so that we can someday approximate a comprehensive listing of Japanese BATs, but no promises...

As people have suggested, this will just be an announcement thread. Questions, examples of how you have used Japanese BATs and other discussion will be reserved for...

2. "Fan club" threads dedicated to individual creators such as Somy, KS, Ragutaro, etc... The next one up is Somy and there's enough material out there for several others. Less prolific Japanese creators who might not have enough out to justify a dedicated fan club thread will have a sort of "minor league" showcase thread.

I see one potential danger of this, which is repetition. For example, it is likely that a new release by Somy might end up posted both in Somy's fan club thread and in the new releases thread but, unless Jeronij tells me that would be a problem, I think it's not a big deal.

OK - that's it for now. These will begin to appear tomorrow (Sunday), unless there are any other comments...