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Author Topic: Rural Renewal Project  (Read 295868 times)

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Offline zero7

Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2007, 02:50:11 PM »
Great work here - I love the tracks and the cattle grid (amazing what obvious things we're still missing after 4 years).  Have you thought of single tracks too, for well-worn footpaths through fields?

On the subject of sheep, if someone can make an animated prop (as vil did with the windmill) then it should be possible - although the format may be slightly different for automata(?).  

Creating lots to spawn any of the animals is simple enough.  The problem I've had is in creating a lot per animal - you need to define a new occupant group to spawn the animal of your choice.  I know people have done this with vehicle automata, spawn a specific custom vehicle from a specific lot, but the same technique doesn't seem to want to work for me with the animals (probably me doing something stupid!).

I suppose what I'm saying is that animal spawning lots are possible, so are animated props - its a case of bringing them together.
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Offline jplumbley

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2007, 02:57:55 PM »
Replies
Gaston:  It would be cool, but that will be primarily up to them.  The biggest challenge I see with that is that there is only one 'lane' on these, so pathing could be a problem.  At any rate, if they would get to it, it will be a while judging by what they've already got going on.

IanB: I absolutely agree about the intersections, it was just the most simple and direct method to avoid this:

Like  Diggis said, the SAM team could do something about that, but the other option in the mean time is to create a piece with overhanging props to look something like this:

Diggis:  Wow you read my mind.  As I already stated on my thread over at ST, I have no intention of releasing this without MML's, so that would extremely cool if you could do 'em.  One more thing I don't have to learn.

Hello Chris,

I have had some time to finally take a good look at this.  This is quite a project you've started.  It looks very interesting and something that I will use once I get to play again.

As for SAM implcations, well, these are just the textures.  I can path it with the same paths as a simple street or we can path it as a one-way road and have it so that the traffic can only go one direction.  The SAM only incorporates Street Texture Sets, but in the future I plan to expand it to include, Rail, OWR, Road variations.  In effect, some of the SAM and NWM projects are overlapping projects and Tarkus and I are working very closely on all of these projects simultaneously.  If you would like to submit your textures for an Addon, we can discuss possible scenarios in how these textures can be implemented properly into the game.

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Offline Andreas

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2007, 03:17:57 PM »
It's great to see the development of this project, and I surely can feel your pain when you found out that your precious prop families didn't work. If that happens again, check out the REP count of the prop family ID - this has been the culprit for me a few times. As BarbyW recommended, you should make sure that your IDs don't overlap other ID ranges, but I guess you already took care of that by selecting an individual range.

Regarding the farm "streets" an the textures: I wouldn't recommend the approach that uses those "invalid" base textures. Not only it looks ugly in the regional view, but the invalid IDs might confuse the game and produce all kinds of side-effects that aren't immediately apparent. The method jeronij described is better, yet not perfect. I figure that jplumbley's suggestion would be the most feasible one.

Network textures are truly transparent without any side-effects, and if your pastures rely in the terrain textures rather than using lots, this would be the most conventient way. Props like farm fence gates could be rendered with an offset, so they can be placed besides the "farm street" and overhang their respective lot. Also, dragging those streets is so much easier than putting them together piece by piece. At the moment, the SAM doesn't support diagonals, but I figure that it should be possible to create some overrides for that later.
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Offline Chrisadams3997

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2007, 03:51:15 PM »
Rooker:  I'd actually had a previous account that, well I don't remember why I had to change it now, but that's why my name is different here than on ST if you ever see me there(Alien_397).  I actually started playing with Bat about two years ago just out of curiousity and have been toying with it  on and off ever since, though the only major project prior to this was my football stadiums that I did about 6 months ago or so(which are about to actually be released ::), long story), and I've been modding things for my own perposes(again on and off) since long before that.  I think I have at least a little knowledge of almost everything short of heavy duty transit modding (pathing and such) by this point.  So it's really just a matter of bringing it all together on something I wanted to do.

BarbyW:  Yep, I've got a IID range for both prop families and textures from the BSC team room over at ST.  And I checked for conflicts anyways, but that wasn't the problem.  I'd already done two other of the prop families a few days before in the same manner which worked fine.  When these were done(all in the same session in the PM), and I went into the lot editor, the prop family IID's of the old ones were there, but none of the new ones showed up, but when I rechecked 'em in the reader, the properties were all set up right.  Like I said though, I re-ran the models through plugin manager and the new ones worked just fine, so it had some wires crossed in there somewhere...

Zero7:  Kinda like this picture:

Yea, I've thought about it, but then it'd have to be able to intersect with the normal trails in various ways, which becomes a lot more complicated.  I might do it within limited capacities, but that's definitely not anything I'll be getting to soon.

Now, the typical Maxis animated props work as a series of renders that play out like frames in a cartoon

, only it's rendered for all 4 angles, like a 3d movie, which is of course utterly different than the automata based fauna and the animal effects. I have doubts that one could be incorporated into the other.  As for SG's animated animal props, they absolutely baffle me as they are absolute replicas of the maxis models best I can tell, not recreations, which means he would have had to found how to get to those models somehow.  I also don't know if they are actually built in the same way as the other normal animated props, something for further study... But nonetheless, the normal animated props and animal effects seem to be created in a whole different way from each other and thus I doubt how well one could be incorporated into the other, it's more of a pick one and go with it.

I'm curious about the animal spawning lots however, I'd like to see what your working with on that.

Jplumbley:  Yep, I'll PM you when I get a chance
Quote
I will use once I get to play again.
And I'm definitely understanding that comment ;)

Andreas:  The REP count might have been, as after setting the first of them, I was copying and pasting the property, not the values, to each new one, so if there was an error there on the first file, it would have been applied to all of them, and that's something I don't normally check.
And like I commented to Barby, I've got a BSC prop family range.

Concerning base textures, they are all using Jeronij's method, the reason the paths still lose their base texture is because they also have overlay textures(someone else had a thread about this issue on here a while back, but I doubt I'd find it.)  Converting it to a network texture would be the only way I know of to completely eliminate the issue, which I realized quite early in the process, but until then, it's stuck with it to the best of my knowledge.  At any rate, it doesn't show too terribly on the region view.

And the gates are already built as overhanging props ;).

Chris


Offline figui

Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2007, 04:15:34 PM »
wow! amazing progress.
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Offline Swamper77

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2007, 09:26:17 PM »
Regarding the animated animal props that SimGoober has, he simply referenced the automata models of the animals. The models are True3D, meaning if rotated, you would see all the geometry of the model. BAT models have their back sides removed, but True3D models do not.

To have sheep automata, someone would have to make a set of True3D models, one model for each frame of the animation, such as when the animal is walking. So someone would have to make the base automata model of the sheep and each of the frames for each part of the walking movement. The automata models of the sheep will also require a skin to be UV mapped to them. The UV mapping can be done in GMAX/3DSMAX.

A LUA generator script would take care of the creation of the sheep on a lot and have them wander around the landscape. You wouldn't need to deal with the game's EffectsDirectory to make them appear. All you would need is a lot with a custom prop on it. The generator for the sheep would be attached to the prop via a custom Occupant Group ID. The amount of sheep created by the script is controlled via defined variables, which are very easy to tweak.

The scripting would be the easy part. The hard part will be the modeling of the sheep. If someone can make the models of the individual frames of the walking sheep, I'd be willing to compile the animation and get the scripts up and running. It may take me awhile to do so, though. I have a job to work most days of the week, including weekends.

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Offline Diggis

Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2007, 01:10:19 AM »
Chris, to make the MML I will need the lots, to copy the building exemplar into one file.  If you want to build a specific lot to use as the MML you can, otherwise I'll be able to.  I was thinking something along the lines of a work yard with stacks of fences and gates.  Probably a 2x2 with the odd tractor too.

Might pay to do a seperate MML for the fences and the tracks, but thats no stress.

On the note of the draggable streets thing, I think that having it as a one way road would be an issue because it wouldn't usually go anywhere.  One option is to have it without paths so you don't get automata.  those tracks are 2 way, you just have to be careful to watch for oncoming vehicles.

Jason, Andreas, is there anyway to restrict the flow of vehicles on a specific texture?

Offline Badsim

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2007, 08:07:43 AM »
Hello Chris ,

I'm astounded by your pictures and this project which is going to send back the current farming standard to its right place : prehistory .   &dd

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Offline Gaston

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2007, 03:36:43 PM »
Chris, to make the MML I will need the lots, to copy the building exemplar into one file.  If you want to build a specific lot to use as the MML you can, otherwise I'll be able to.  I was thinking something along the lines of a work yard with stacks of fences and gates.  Probably a 2x2 with the odd tractor too.
    This sounds like a kool construction lot.    I might even want it just my city as it is even.   

Quote
Might pay to do a seperate MML for the fences and the tracks, but thats no stress.
    Two makes alot of sense Diggis.    Some folks are only gonna want to use one set of lots and not the other.  $%Grinno$%  I can't imagine who would do that but someone might.    ?=mad)=

Quote
On the note of the draggable streets thing, I think that having it as a one way road would be an issue because it wouldn't usually go anywhere.  One option is to have it without paths so you don't get automata.  those tracks are 2 way, you just have to be careful to watch for oncoming vehicles.
    Ooooops,  I didn't even think of that.  Yeah, it would look pretty silly having cars drive off to no where.    Too bad too, cause it is still a very kool texture to use as a SAM texture.   LOL

Quote
Jason, Andreas, is there anyway to restrict the flow of vehicles on a specific texture?
    I hope so.   This would be the only way you could use is as a street texture.     I just had a tought pop in my head.   What if you could restrict the flow(direction) using time as the factor.      Alot of cities have bridges/highways/roads that have flow restrictions on them.   They usually have some type of combination of green arrow and red X sign above them.   This way at peek traffic times (morning / evening commutes) the traffic is allowed to use more of the road or even ALL of it.   You don't need the arrow signs but I wonder if it could be time of day based.   Say from 8a to 10a traffic goes -> .   Then from say 11a to 1p it goes <- .   Then after an hour it reverses again.    I'm not sure why the hour break but it just seems like it aught to be there.   If it is possible this would work.    Alot of things are based on time of day in the game.    Things like lights coming on, etc., so why not the traffic flow of a street.   It would become a OWTDS (One Way Time Dependent Street)    Okay sorry I couldn't help but putting it in the form of an acronym.      :P


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Offline Chrisadams3997

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2007, 05:39:03 PM »
Thanks everyone.  I just got the beta set ready and sent out to a few folks to test, and I've got a new update just about ready, but it probably won't go up until tomorrow.  I should get around to replies then :thumbsup:.

Chris

Offline jeronij

Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2007, 05:46:20 PM »
This is a really fresh and interesting project  :thumbsup:

I really like it, and I hope to be able to test is soon  ;)
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Offline Orange Julius

Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2007, 07:45:36 PM »
It would be cool if the dirt tracks were truly one-way (as some promising evidence has been shown regarding things like single-track railroads). It's pretty cool that with SimCity 4 you can make megapolises or simple farm towns. The RHW-2 would work fine in a situation like your own.
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Offline Chrisadams3997

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2007, 01:41:04 AM »
Alright, see if I can't get caught up a little here.

Replies

Swamper:  Wow, that's good news.  I kinda figured if someone knew about this it would be you.  At any rate the modeling part of that in and of itself is a major task, particularly with my skill at it.  It'll make an interesting project if I ever get around to it.  Or if anyone else had the time to tackle it.....

Diggis:  I agree two of them would be best, and I really like your idea for the lot for the fences.  I could make some new props out of the models I used for the fences and gates for it too, just let me know what you have in mind.

Badsim:  eh a ways to go to push it back that far,  I'd be happy with just the bronze age for now.

Gaston:  Really interesting idea, no clue if it's possible, but it'd be a nice solution.

Jeronij: Sent you a link

Orange Julius:  heh, maybe one day.  But I'm happy enough with the eye candy for now.  Gettin' closer to the simple farm town one step at a time

AND on that note, here's another step, definitely a small one, but I'm kind of proud of it.

The Jpeg makes the color look more green than it is in the render by the way.  I'll probably also stretch it a little vertically too.


(for anyone who doesn't know, it's a portable grain feeder for cattle or sheep)

I'm going to be putting together a series of props like this to be placed on lots in pastures for some variety.  I also wanted to share with yall the present progress on the flora I've started working on.  I noticed that there isn't really much in the way of low growing flora anywhere, though jeronij's woods base flora can fill this bill, but doesn't fit well in with my area. so one aspect I'd like to work on is low bush's and shrubs that could form a dense understory under larger trees, as seen in lots of wooded areas in many parts of the world, or used by themselves for heavily overgrown areas.

The other thing is areas that are still open, but overgrown beyond the point of just grass.  Tall weeds, some shrubs, and wildflowers.  That's the part I've actually started on, and some of the results I've already previewed here in a few pics.  I've currently got 3 types modeled, shown in this pic.  The smaller patches by the large circles shows the models for each at present, and the maxis trees are just for size comparison.


Here's an area(it's actually up towards the top of the first pic I showed here, though with some additional stuff added) shown from zoom 1 to 4 showing them used to create some overgrown rangeland.
Z1

Z2

Z3

Z4


As I said, I've got the base set of fences and roads packaged up and sent out for beta testing, and I wanted to share with everyone else the finished fences.  Same 5 basic models, just have all the open models and the diagonals now.


I still need to go back and move the inside edge of the diagonal gates closer in to where the road is to center it out.


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Offline FromTheAshes

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2007, 03:03:45 AM »
Wooow thats so nice  :shocked2:
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Offline Diggis

Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2007, 03:55:25 AM »
Is there a fainting smiley?  That is increadible.  That flora looks amazing.

Any chance of getting the open gates and closed gates as timed props?

I'll PM you my Email address so you can send me the files when you are ready for me to MML it.

For the lot (at least the fences lot) imagine a yard beside a shed full of tractors, with all the pieces for a fence lying around, some stacked nicely, some a little loose, as though they have been moved to get something else.

Not sure how to approach the tracks MML, but maybe the farm shed would be the way to go, as the tractors are what would normally make the tracks.  I like the idea of a lot that fits permanently into the area as if you are doing a farming city, then you would probably use these a lot anyway.  But in a city, you wouldn't need them plopped at all.

Offline Andreas

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2007, 04:01:10 AM »
The underbrush flora is defintely my favorite. I was waiting so long for something like this! And I'm sure all "Pebble Pushers" (a term we invented at SimForum for all those folks who literally place single pebbles to perfect their region) will love it. :)
Andreas

Offline Ennedi

Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2007, 05:44:45 AM »
I agree, this flora is fantastic and it will be very useful in many situations, not only on pastures :thumbsup:
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Offline jeronij

Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2007, 06:38:52 AM »
I have had the chance to test the beta version, and I have to say that I am impressed about how well it works  :thumbsup:  &apls

A pity that the pasture flora was not available in that beta version  ::)  :D  Oh, I do really hope that you will make that flora as plopable items.... will you   ;D ?¿

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Offline BarbyW

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Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2007, 07:43:12 AM »
Have you thought about making the gates open and close at random? If you want to do that and need help, let me know.
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Offline Sober

Re: Rural Renewal Project
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2007, 07:55:41 AM »
Holy moly, that's amazing! Suddenly I regret paving over my rural areas so soon ...  :-[ :-[