Crash to desktop question

[mrbisonm]

Started playing a few days ago again. Changed nothing, downloaded nothing, nor added or deleted nothing in both Plugins folders
I played in 11 different city tiles in the same region, no problem with loading or playing and saving afterwards (after many hrs of play)

Now, this is a tile, I started playing in, saved it a few times while playing and after 15 minutes of play, letting grow the newly zoned areas, the game crashes. I thought maybe it is because I have been playing for about 4 hrs and now it was too much for the 'puter (playing with 9 Gbs of Plugins. Happened before.
The next day I came to play again in this tile and it loads, but crashes 2 to 3 secs after, each time......so......I emptied both Plugins and tried to open, ....same crash, with no plugins.
I tried to change the citytile from the *never played in* Region file, but it just opens as an empty flat file.

I tried everything I could find about the crashing subject from Devotion and nothing solved the problem. Any ideas what I can do, whether recuperation my played citytile or just the original terraformed cityfile.
(Now I remember why I hated this game so much to stop playing btw).......lol

Anywya help or ideas will all be appreciated, thanks. Btw, I'm not a beginner, been playing this game from 2003 'til 2 years ago, stopped, and now I'm back. This kind of crash never happened to me before.


Fred

[callagrafx]

Silly question(s) maybe...Has Windows done any automatic updates? Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling the game (without deleting cities)?

[xxdita]

CTD's can be hard to pinpoint. Airports and seaports can totally lock a city tile down. Some custom content just doesn't work at all.

I forget whether desc files without lots can cause CTD or lots without desc files, but I know it's one of those for growables. 

[twalsh102]

xxdita, it's lot exemplars without the referenced building exemplar that causes the CTD.

Fred, just to verify, you aren't experiencing this new problem with any of the other city tiles in that region?  And when you mentioned "I tried to change the citytile from the *never played in* Region file, but it just opens as an empty flat file.", you mean that this citytile is supposed to have terrain, but doesn't?  What I might suggest is moving the entire region to someplace safe and replace it with the un-built original region to see what happens. 

If the citytile actually completes loading (i.e. it opens) before crashing, this doesn't seem to fit the pattern for things that normally cause CTDs.  It might be some new cause.

Since you mentioned you've been gone awhile, and only mentioned searching Devotion postings, are you aware of this issue:  https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/758649-airport-shuttle-woes/?tab=comments#comment-1728416?  I didn't find any direct reference to this issue with any postings here.

[xxdita]

I'm not seeing that file on Fred's LEX download list. But of course, I can't see what gets downloaded from other sites.

I do see a number of files that have been updated since the last time you've downloaded them. Some updates are more critical than others, so that would be the first thing to check.

[mrbisonm]

Ok, first of all let me explain this: I am usually well organized, so are my Plugins. I have not changed , added nor taken away anything in all my SC4 folders, whether they are in the MyDoc or Program/Maxis folders and if I remember well, everything was just fine before, no CTD's, nothing else.
Then, answering your demands:

Silly question(s) maybe...Has Windows done any automatic updates? Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling the game (without deleting cities)?

Yes to both, I have Win XP pro installed on my SC4/Civ III/ Settlers/ Tropico and etc.... computer, no automatic updates done since. Re-installing did NOT chnage anything at all, that was a lot of lost time for nothing....

CTD's can be hard to pinpoint. Airports and seaports can totally lock a city tile down.
I forget whether desc files without lots can cause CTD or lots without desc files, but I know it's one of those for growables. 

No sea nor airports have been used on this citytile. Like I said before, nothing has been changed since I played the game two years ago as it was just fine working. For the lots without desc and/or desc without lotfiles, I will have a closer look, but....geeez, I have I don't know how many 10s of thousand files, and the citytile tile crashes with no  files at all too.

xxdita, it's lot exemplars without the referenced building exemplar that causes the CTD.

Fred, just to verify, you aren't experiencing this new problem with any of the other city tiles in that region? All other citytiles can be loaded, opened and played on without any problem. And when you mentioned "I tried to change the citytile from the *never played in* Region file, but it just opens as an empty flat file.", you mean that this citytile is supposed to have terrain, but doesn't? Yes, it does not have the original terrain, but comes out completely flat brand new. What I might suggest is moving the entire region to someplace safe and replace it with the un-built original region to see what happens.  I always keep the original region in a safe way, and I tried to play on that same citytil, untouched as it was before, no problems arrised.

If the citytile actually completes loading (i.e. it opens) before crashing, this doesn't seem to fit the pattern for things that normally cause CTDs.  It might be some new cause. The game crashed when the whole tile is loaded and the game is ready to play.

Since you mentioned you've been gone awhile, and only mentioned searching Devotion postings, are you aware of this issue:  https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/758649-airport-shuttle-woes/?tab=comments#comment-1728416? I didn't find any direct reference to this issue with any postings here. Yes I am aware of this. no help found there. Like I said, I am a SC4 Oldtimer with a lot of modding, modeling and playing experience. I tried everything that contains my knowledge, but this I have never experienced. In times before I was ALWAYS been able to "repair" my CTD's.....not htis time, I'm lost.

I'm not seeing that file on Fred's LEX download list. But of course, I can't see what gets downloaded from other sites.

I do see a number of files that have been updated since the last time you've downloaded them. Some updates are more critical than others, so that would be the first thing to check.

Ok, updated files have not been used yet, they were simply downloaded because I did not know that I have already downloaded them (I do not look at those things) and when it comes to override the already existing lots, I refuse and delete most of them. I do not override downloads when I already have them for the reason that I know they're working fine. SO, no updates were done.

Thanks so far for everyone's help and suggestion.

Fred

[xxdita]

There are 4 stages where custom content can be proven problematic:

1) At startup of a city tile.
2) When the content is used. A building plopped or queued up to grow.
3) when the content is queried
4) when the content is no longer used, either demolished or overgrown.
5) when returning to the tile again after 4.

So now it becomes a matter of retracing your steps. The only one of these things you can't really know for certain is what the game has queued up to try to grow.

Some file updates are more critical than others. I've done several updates recently to address MAC 64bit compatibility.

You may want to try using DataNode, to see if there's a conflict with your files, or a missing dependency. I would hope that a missing desc file would serve as a missing dependency.

[mrbisonm]

There are 4 stages where custom content can be proven problematic:

1) At startup of a city tile.
2) When the content is used. A building plopped or queued up to grow.
3) when the content is queried
4) when the content is no longer used, either demolished or overgrown.
5) when returning to the tile again after 4.

So now it becomes a matter of retracing your steps. The only one of these things you can't really know for certain is what the game has queued up to try to grow.

Some file updates are more critical than others. I've done several updates recently to address MAC 64bit compatibility.

You may want to try using DataNode, to see if there's a conflict with your files, or a missing dependency. I would hope that a missing desc file would serve as a missing dependency.

Ok xxdita,thanks a lot.....some good advice there. I will try 2, which sounds like the most probable. And I also will download the DataNode program and see what it says.

In case none of these two bring me an explanation and a positive result, then I will give up retrieving the played on file and try again to change the citytile with the virgin original tile. Anyone has an idea how this can be done, since they don't have the same file name?

Fred

[xxdita]

This is really going to depend on the state of the backup file. In order to import it, it needs to be a city that has been opened, named, and saved, and the backup files need to be in your Regions folder when you start the game.

[mrbisonm]

This is really going to depend on the state of the backup file. In order to import it, it needs to be a city that has been opened, named, and saved, and the backup files need to be in your Regions folder when you start the game.

Ok then, that explains why it always comes out as a flat terrain. I guess I will have to open it, create city and save before exporting it to the Play Region folder. Thanks

Fred

[fantozzi]

xxdita, it's lot exemplars without the referenced building exemplar that causes the CTD.

[...]

If the citytile actually completes loading (i.e. it opens) before crashing, this doesn't seem to fit the pattern for things that normally cause CTDs.  It might be some new cause.

From the description Fred gives most probably it is a single plugin - the tile was saved when it started to grow and therefore the tile can be loaded and the CTD happens as soon as the construction is completed.

The desc file doesn't need to be missing. During the years it may be got corrupted by copying, transfering from HD to HD, by zipping and unzipping, restoring, disc defragmentation - there are so many possibilities a file can get corrupted, if they are touched.

Also this did happen to me after a long time. It was a lot I once had downloaded and so rarely did grow, that I had forgotten about it. Therefore the CTD happened so rarely but the same way on a specific time and always some minutes after loading.

Only thing that helped was the 'plop all lots' cheat and the binary search method to find the culpit. I simply had to reinstall the data from a fresh download (not from my backup) - as my backup was corrupted. So I could have reinstalled a hundred times from my backup.

[mrbisonm]

xxdita, it's lot exemplars without the referenced building exemplar that causes the CTD.

[...]

If the citytile actually completes loading (i.e. it opens) before crashing, this doesn't seem to fit the pattern for things that normally cause CTDs.  It might be some new cause.

From the description Fred gives most probably it is a single plugin - the tile was saved when it started to grow and therefore the tile can be loaded and the CTD happens as soon as the construction is completed.

The desc file doesn't need to be missing. During the years it may be got corrupted by copying, transfering from HD to HD, by zipping and unzipping, restoring, disc defragmentation - there are so many possibilities a file can get corrupted, if they are touched.

Also this did happen to me after a long time. It was a lot I once had downloaded and so rarely did grow, that I had forgotten about it. Therefore the CTD happened so rarely but the same way on a specific time and always some minutes after loading.

Only thing that helped was the 'plop all lots' cheat and the binary search method to find the culpit. I simply had to reinstall the data from a fresh download (not from my backup) - as my backup was corrupted. So I could have reinstalled a hundred times from my backup.

I like your idea, but I cannot enter the city at all, not even with NO plugins at all, so I guess that's it Simcity again. I forgot why I stopped playing that game, simply because there are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many failors with all sorts of things.
When I feel like, I will delete the tile and start all over again, even terraforming the whole freakin' thing one more time, but that time hasn't come yet, maybe in 5 years or so. Thank you all though,your help ideas and encouragements are greatly appreciated.
Fred

[xxdita]

All it takes is one poorly modded lot to screw up everything.

If you can't even open the tile, it may be something to do with how you're saving though? It's never happened to me, but I've seen reports of cities being corrupted when using Save & Exit or Save & Exit to Region options. So you may want to get into the habit of saving before trying to exit at all.

[mrbisonm]

All it takes is one poorly modded lot to screw up everything.

If you can't even open the tile, it may be something to do with how you're saving though? It's never happened to me, but I've seen reports of cities being corrupted when using Save & Exit or Save & Exit to Region options. So you may want to get into the habit of saving before trying to exit at all.

Well, I know about this for several years and I usually have no problems with my savings. I put the game on pause and save, then look around a bit on the tile for a minute or so and then exit to region, have a good look at the regional view to see the changes that I did and figure out what to do the next time I enter, then I exit game. I have done this for the last 10 year (still do it everyday)and never had a problem. So, I suppose it's not this that causes the tile  to cdt.

Fred

[jeffryfisher]

This is really going to depend on the state of the backup file. In order to import it, it needs to be a city that has been opened, named, and saved, and the backup files need to be in your Regions folder when you start the game.

I don't think the import even needs to have been named, so the terraforming should be salvageable. All you really need is to remove the problem city file and import the right replacement (open the backed-up region to see what "New City" number that sector has, then get out without saving anything).

Depending on the relative names (alpha sort), you could have both files saved in your region, and the second one to load would override the other (masking the first, which is a problem some people encounter by accident when copying city files).

Of course, changing its name in-game could swap the masking, so don't get fancy with this trick; just move the problem city to a broken-cities folder. There has been work in recent years to discover how to edit some parts of saved cities, so some kinds of corruption can be surgically corrected. If you enjoy puzzles, you might hunt down the thread(s) at Simtropolis.