Barroco Hispano BAT Thread

[Barroco Hispano]

Work in progress

2020 McLaren Speedtail







2014 Mercedes Benz E Class:

[Barroco Hispano]

M10 Wolverine:

[Barroco Hispano]

I don't know what scale to use for the sims...



133% scale (They will adapt with all my cars, tanks, ships, etc) or Simcity sims scale 

-I plan to export hundreds of sims so this is the time to choose a definitive scale for the sims.

[art128]

on the game view the Simcity scale make him look like a dwarf next to the 133%.

[Barroco Hispano]

on the game view the Simcity scale make him look like a dwarf next to the 133%.

[Une_ame]

I remember what PEG use to do back in time when every BAT, MOD he mades was something like 30 % too big compare to other custom products. Mixing it together, it looks weird BUT all of his own products fit perfectly with each other. As people didn't just download one BAT or one MOD but several ones (if not all) since his skills were high, the result in the presented cities were really good.

You've presented so many stuffs that seems to be quite appealing, I'm advocating to keep the same scale for all your production. 

[mr.fusion]

Peg and others like Simmer2 use that 133 % scale - which looks overscaled in comparison to most of the SC4 default AND custom content. I never understood that 133 % issue.  Look at the cars and trucks - the limit is the width of the streets, which is limited itself by the default tilesize. I do play SC4 not only in paused mode, so all that beautiful automata made by dozens of heroic creators fill my streets. But whenever passing one of those 133%-lots, props, buildings whatever, it sucks.  I scale down those models using SC4 Model Tweaker, but this will cause rendering issues. And yes, the maxis humans are too tall, but that's less disturbing than oversized lorries, trucks, houses, buses, wagons, props etc.
Keep the normal scale, please. Your work is so amazing and wonderful, don't destroy it by oversizing.

[Jasoncw]

There are different types of scaling.

Because the game is so low resolution, Maxis exaggerated the size of sims and other small objects. If they didn't do that, humans at zoom 5 would have to be tiny one pixel wide sticks. The same logic goes for everything else at that scale, mainly street props. For this kind of scaling, the scaling is done in all dimensions in order to make the object as a whole more visible, and it's much more than 133%. I also know that road lanes and I think automata are also scaled up, but I don't personally the conventions for that.

The other kind of scaling which Maxis employed is vertical scaling, in order to overcome the visual squashing effect of the type of orthographic projection that they used in the game. You can see in the example below.



There are different approaches to vertical scaling, but the most common and imo the best and most straightforward is to model things to actual dimensions and then scale vertically by 133%. This can be done by grouping the building, applying an FFD Modifier, and then selecting the FFD cage and scaling that up. If you do it this way, deleting or disabling the FFD modifier will completely and perfectly undo the vertical scaling, so you can go back and forth between working in actual dimensions and doing previews or exports scaled up.

In terms of the exact number, 133% is the most common, although JP Schriefer has found that it's actually 136.6% (https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/73530-vertical-scaling-a-new-approach/). Either way, that amount makes the horizontal and vertical lengths the same, turning the front facade into a proportionally accurate elevation. Some people have thought that that makes things look too tall, especially for skyscrapers. They're partly incorrect there, because the game is orthographic and real life is in perspective and if real life was orthographic the buildings would also look "too tall" (in other words, human vision is giving a misleading impression of the proportions of objects), but they're also partly correct because the SC4 view is obviously from above in which case you would naturally expect to see some forshortening. Anyway, the result is that some people scale vertically, but less than 133%/136.6%. Some BATers model with taller than normal dimensions in order to intuitively correct for the squashing, but otherwise don't do any scaling. Sometimes I do this when I'm not recreating a real building. And finally, a very small number of BATers completely reject the concept of vertical scaling.

[Barroco Hispano]

@mr.fusion I don't plan on using the real world scale because I think it's too small. btw, @badsim is making a lot of automatas that will fit with my vehicles.



133%



Not even on bing maps a car looks so small and the road looks the same size.



@Une_ame I'll follow your advise.

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M7 Priest:



M8 Scott:

[mr.fusion]

@alejogc13: yeah, that supercar looks cool on that road, but how about trucks and trailers of the same scale? As I said, I had to scale down lots of automata because they didn't fit into my roads, especially when turning on crossroads or driving bends.

@Jasoncw: thanks for your explanations - to be honest, I didn't get it all. What is the real world scale, then? Is it correct, that this 133 vertical upscaling issue IS NOT the same thing as general oversizing like PEG and Simmer2 do, as Une_ame said? If so, I'm sorry for mixing that up.

What I want to say is:
Please do not oversize like PEG and Simmer2. They make good stuff, but overscaled and chubby. In my opinion, most of the older and current (e.g. mattb325, RRetail, pclark06) custom content does not blend with their work, what really is a big pity.

[Une_ame]

Since it may not been clear enough, I'm advocating keeping the same scale in all Alejogc13's production. I'm not advocating growing everything the way PEG use to do. Nuance.

Very interesting debat though 

[Barroco Hispano]

This is how it looks





Peterbilt 389:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut9e9q4TmgM

[fantozzi]

On the scale-debate on props (buildings are different) I cannot tell what's wrong or right. All I can tell is what I do.

As Sims aren't scaled correctly many props are like intermediaries between sims and bats.

I never used a ruler in the software. I put a car by girafe in SC4 and put one of my models next to it.

The reason is simple: I already use the girafe car props and I prefer their size so I want to have my own props to be compatible with them. To have perfered content in a compatible size is a main objective.

So that the first rule I got: Scale means nothing if the content doesn't look right compared with other content. It's not only a mathematical question but also a visual question.

And of course, f.e. some small cars I size a little up and some big trucks I size a little down - so in total they are much closer together inside the game than in real life ... but it looks well inside the game. And to me this is the important thing. Like I like girls very much. But it's not their size ore measures I care much but I get hooked by their beauty.

That's the second of my rules: beauty is all about proportions. There is no right or wrong measure but how they match each other - a very big body and a very small head may look strange but not a very big body and a very big head together. So there is no absolute measure that's right but of course there is relation - proportion which gives measure.

On street vehicles this relation is a problem. Because we have the streets quite small and the sims quite big. It's imposibble to create street props fitting both at the same time. Or they fit the streets or they fit sims.

It's obvious you have to find a compromise.

A little bit also can be done by using different street textures, without borders. But that's another project.

From my own little experience I know it's a very sad process. You have a nice model but it's to big. So you scale it down and you see a lot of details getting lost. But still too big. So you scale it down another little bit. And suddenly it looks like melted colors, blurry and ugly. That's what batting props makes a really hard challenge - to make a meaningfull shape alike to a model with a trillion of pixels but you have maybe 20 pixels at hand.

THIS – exactly this!  – is craftmanship. Making such good looking models with such reduced amount of data.

It's like carving a picture story on the surface of a walnut.



One has to regard this as highly elaborated atistry.

 

[Barroco Hispano]

@Fantozzi I plan to re-texturize the NAM

I try to make the BAT's scale look like in real life but it is a pity that the decision of the BAT's scale was taken a long time ago and I have arrived too late.



This is what American trucks look like on European roads 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbMXuitVEJ8

Sometimes I dream that all buildings, props, sims, cars, automata, planes, trees, are scaled by 133% on all axes   


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Eurocopter EC665 Tiger (French version):

[Barroco Hispano]

Leclerc tank (French Main Battle Tank):

[Barroco Hispano]

SU-100:



SU-76:

[Barroco Hispano]

Farman F.223:

[Barroco Hispano]

Heinkel He 177

[Unconstantean]

Man those are some amazing assets 
wish you could bring them to cities skylines.

Regarding the american trucks on European streets, man those are some narrow streets, i also live in Europe but here the streets seem a little larger , as i live near  very large port i see all kind of trucks and US trucks are not that uncommon.

[Une_ame]

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Thanks for those wonderfull creations  .