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Author Topic: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready  (Read 58769 times)

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Offline Mikey Knox

Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #200 on: September 15, 2017, 12:03:49 PM »
Is it safe to switch the Preset from Standart to Extended midgame or do i have to start a new Region for that?

Thx

Offline Zeratai

Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #201 on: September 23, 2017, 09:48:33 PM »
Hi there Invisi: Finally I got a new computer after some long years. I left SimCity for a long time, now I'm back, I've installed your CAM, but I don't know if it installed correctly. Is there any way I can know I have it correctly installed? Great Job!

Offline mgb204

Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #202 on: September 24, 2017, 08:04:32 AM »
Did you see any errors during the install process? If it didn't work correctly, you would have. So if not, you can safely assume that everything is OK.

Offline twalsh102

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #203 on: September 24, 2017, 02:14:20 PM »
Mikey Knox,

There's not a simple answer here.  "Safe" is a relative term.

Can you change playstyles without it "blowing up" your existing region?  Yes.  Are there ramifications?  most certainly!

If you look at the Growth Stage Tables in the CAM 2.1.0 documentation, the values shown are for the Extended Playstyle.  The values used for the Standard Playstyle are essentially half those for the Extended Playstyle.  So for example, the R$ population threshold for Growth Stage 10 in Standard Playstyle is 268,963, while for Extended, it is 537,926.  So essentially, at the same population level, changing from Standard to Extended will dump you back into Stage 8.  Nothing would happen to any existing Stage9 or 10 buildings after making the change, but you wouldn't see any further growth of Stage 9 or 10 buildings until your population grows to meet the new thresholds.  So essentially, across the board, growth of higher stage level buildings will be stunted until populations grow to meet the new thresholds.

Not sure how familiar you are with everything the Growth Stage tables represent, but what InvisiChem shows in his documentation is only half the story.  The tables also determine the ratios of buildings in each Growth Stage that will be allowed to grow.  There are also two or more population thresholds within each growth stage that adjust those ratios.

The following example shows the changes in ratios you would experience,based on a population level of 268,963, and a change from Standard to Extended PlayStyle in an existing region:

Standard PlayStyle
    R$             R$$             R$$$   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10
268963   403282   537622   6   7   8   9   11   12   15   17   15   1
333961   500739   667544   5   7   7   9   10   12   14   16   18   4

Extended PlayStyle
    R$             R$$            R$$$           1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10
221320   331846   442390   7   10   11   12   14   17   19   10   
277268   415734   554222   7   9   10   11   13   15   18   16   1
346586   519668   692778   6   8   9   11   12   14   17   19   4

Since the game will not allow further growth of buildings of a particular Growth Stage if the existing number of buildings for that Stage exceed the ratios set in the tables, you would not even see growth of any new Stage 8 buildings until your R$ population exceeds 346,586.

So, is it safe?  Probably, depending on what your definition of safe is here.  You would certainly see more consistency in growth during the lifespan of your region if you made the change when starting a new region.

Offline murray1234

Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2018, 08:40:49 PM »
I'm playing CAM 2.1 + Colossus Farming, and I just need to install CAM and this happens with my older cities:

Offline twalsh102

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #205 on: June 08, 2018, 02:20:29 PM »
Has anyone else noticed that there is an error in the Demand Simulator exemplar included with CAM 2.1.0?  I haven't been able to find any discussion of this issue. 

The error occurs in the Demand: Neutral Tax Rate vs. Population property.  The default Maxis version of this exemplar stops at a population level of 6 million.  It appears that InvisiChem's intention was to extend this to 7.2 million (based on tax rate values supplied).  However, there is a missing zero for all population levels above 6 million.  So, for example, instead of a probably intended population value of 6.15 million, the actual value in the exemplar is 615,000.  Instead of a probably intended population value of 7.2 million, the actual value in the exemplar is 720,000.

The unintended consequences are that according to this exemplar, the neutral tax rate for a population of 600,000 is 7.86%.  Initially, there are no other population level values between 600,000 and 750,000.  But because of the missing zero, at a population level of 615,000, it drops to 3.28% (a drop of 58%) and continues to drop until a population level of 720,000 where it hits 3% (a total drop of 62%).  At a population level of 750,000, the neutral tax rate will rise back up to 7.61% (an increase of 154%)

I can't help but think that this will have a very dramatic effect on demand and growth when those unintended trigger values are reached.

Offline eagle74

Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #206 on: June 08, 2018, 03:58:31 PM »
A question about taxes.  I noticed in the main controller DAT file that the neutral tax rates have been lowered vs RH, but there appears to be an error for the rates intended above a population of 6.0 MM.  Starting at 6.15 & for subsequent entries they are off by a decimal place making it 615,000 etc.  Since this range is already indexed much earlier in the table with much higher tax rates, is this going to cause issues (perhaps severe dips in demand around these population levels)?

Have known this for sometime.  I have not used CAM 2.1 in awhile, but I fixed the rates in my files before playing it.

Offline fantozzi

Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #207 on: June 10, 2018, 02:36:55 AM »
Has anyone else noticed that there is an error in the Demand Simulator exemplar included with CAM 2.1.0?

[...]

I can't help but think that this will have a very dramatic effect on demand and growth when those unintended trigger values are reached.

Oops ... no ...

... yes, I'd agree. This could become quite annoying.

Thanky you. I suggest to upload a third party fix?
We suffered for our art. You have to suffer for our art as well!
(Terry Gilliam)

Offline jeffryfisher

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #208 on: July 14, 2019, 11:29:05 AM »
Looking for CAM stage threshold data, I found a sticky on this board that describes CAM 1.0, and I see that CAM 2.1 has been the norm since 2016. Is that because the numbers are unchanged sine CAM 1.0? I suggest that the threshold sticky be temporarily reopened and a note added regarding applicability to CAM 2.1 (with a link to revised values if 2.1 has changed them). Or perhaps it's time to un-stick a sticky that's only good for CAM 1.0.


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Offline b22rian

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #209 on: July 31, 2019, 02:57:02 PM »
Looking for CAM stage threshold data, I found a sticky on this board that describes CAM 1.0, and I see that CAM 2.1 has been the norm since 2016. Is that because the numbers are unchanged sine CAM 1.0? I suggest that the threshold sticky be temporarily reopened and a note added regarding applicability to CAM 2.1 (with a link to revised values if 2.1 has changed them). Or perhaps it's time to un-stick a sticky that's only good for CAM 1.0.

Is there a CAM 2.1 manual , like the CAM 1.0 Manual pdf one ?
I was thinking the  thresholds data might be in there if there is one ?

Offline jeffryfisher

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #210 on: August 01, 2019, 11:39:22 AM »
Looking for CAM stage threshold data, I found a sticky on this board that describes CAM 1.0, and I see that CAM 2.1 has been the norm since 2016. Is that because the numbers are unchanged sine CAM 1.0? I suggest that the threshold sticky be temporarily reopened and a note added regarding applicability to CAM 2.1 (with a link to revised values if 2.1 has changed them). Or perhaps it's time to un-stick a sticky that's only good for CAM 1.0.

Is there a CAM 2.1 manual , like the CAM 1.0 Manual pdf one ?
I was thinking the  thresholds data might be in there if there is one ?
That was the first place I looked (before even coming to the board to find the obsolete sticky). What the doc says about thresholds is "Although the current tables are for CAM 1.0, I will be
slowly updating them into a CAM 2.1 version..." followed by one set of tables presumably from 1.0.

Modding PC games since 1993 (back when we needed hex-editors)

Offline twalsh102

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #211 on: August 17, 2019, 04:06:36 AM »
b22rian, there is a manual placed in a folder titled "CAM Auxillery Files" under your My Documents\SimCity 4 folder when CAM 2.1.0 is installed on your PC.
Unfortunately, it includes only abbreviated Growth Stage charts, and only for one of the five Play Styles (Extended).

I've recently finished creating a complete set of Growth Stage charts for all five Play Styles in spreadsheet format.  Now that the website is back up and running, I'll be posting them here in the next couple of days.  Then we can hopefully get Tarkus (or someone on his staff) to add a link to the WIKI article.

Offline b22rian

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #212 on: August 17, 2019, 06:06:58 AM »
thanks Twalsh !

At least for the time being...
and with this current region , I have been playing for so long now..
I still have CAM 1.0 installed and I am currently still playing and enjoying the region and its cities.

But yes, of course if i were to start up a new region, I would want CAM 2.1 , to be a focal point :)

So thanks for the info and your posting my friend,,

Offline twalsh102

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #213 on: August 29, 2019, 10:52:33 PM »
I herewith offer the complete set of Growth Stage charts for CAM 2.1.0.  The attached .zips contains five spreadsheets which are derived directly from the Developer Exemplars for the various Play-styles in CAM 2.1.0 as created by InvisiChem.  All creative credit belongs to him.

The Growth Stage charts shown in the User Manual that accompanies CAM 2.1.0 are an abbreviated version of the charts for the Extended Play-style, in that they do not show either the complete set of thresholds (each Growth Stage contains 2 or more intermediary thresholds), or the percentages of lots that are allowed to grow at each threshold level.  As far as I have been able to determine, a complete set of Growth Stage Charts for CAM 2.1.0 has not been previously released by InvisiChem or anyone else.

Each threshold number is the sum of the Regional Capacity for all wealth levels for each major Developer Type, i.e. the R thresholds are the sum of Regional Capacity for R$ + R$$ + R$$$ Sims; the thresholds on the CS and CO charts are the sum of Regional Capacities for all wealth levels of both CO and CS Sims; the thresholds for the Industrial chart are the sums of the Regional Capacity for IR + ID + IM + IHT Sims.

Summary of major changes related to Growth Stages, between CAM 1.0 and CAM 2.1.0:
1.  There are now five different Play-styles, each with a different set of Growth Stage thresholds and percentages.
2.  Maximum Capacity levels in each chart have been greatly extended.
3.  While the thresholds for CO and CS are the same, the percentages are different; hence separate charts.
4.  Regional Capacity for IR is now counted for threshold purposes.  Thresholds and percentages for IR and ID are now the same.  They have therefore been combined in the IND charts for all Play-styles.

There are five spreadsheets, one for each Play-style.  Each spreadsheet contains four worksheets:  one each for R, CS, CO and IND.  The farthest right column in each worksheet is nothing more than a sum of the Growth Stage values in each row to verify numbers add-up correctly.

While the percentages for each Growth Stage appear as integers, they are almost all rounded numbers.  Actual values extracted from the relevant exemplars may include up to eight decimal places.  For example, the true value for a cell showing 63% may be 63.09999847%.  The true values can be viewed by either clicking each cell, or by changing the format for the Growth Stage values to include eight decimal places.

In the Extended Play-style spreadsheet, the values for percentages of lots that are allowed to grow at each threshold have been converted so that they display as percentages.  In the remaining spreadsheets, they have not and the numbers shown represent the equivalent percentages.

I have included charts in .xlsx format for use with Excel-friendly spreadsheet programs, and in .ods format for use with most Open-Source spreadsheet programs.  Make sure you download the appropriate .zip file.

Please let me know if you encounter any discrepancies so I can correct the appropriate spreadsheet.

Tarkus, can someone add a link to the Wiki article when the Wiki gets put back together?

Offline jeffryfisher

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #214 on: August 30, 2019, 11:09:04 AM »
Just to be sure: Capacity is what's built, not just zoned, right?
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Offline twalsh102

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Re: CAM 2.1.0 Uploaded and ready
« Reply #215 on: August 30, 2019, 04:21:57 PM »
That is my understanding.