The Noro Cooperative

[wouanagaine]

For now we have our regional map, as seen from wouanagaine's update of terraformer and a couple images from me dialing in our terrain/water/beach/rock mods and settings.

If you have a terraformer update, please give me the sources

Joke aside, that's a very interesting project and already nice pics !


Hehe, whoops     The new mapper is working excellent though. Thanks for your support 

-Noah

[MandelSoft]

Oh, that's a nice map! May I give you some advise on the general layout plan? I like to pre-plan my regions in large-scale, don't know if you do that too...

Also, it looks like you're going to use quite some MMPs, something I never mastered myself...


Thanks Maarten! We'd love to have your advice on the general layout plan. I'll be posting my first ideas for the road network very soon, and in addition to wanting feedback on that we'll be open to other people's plans for the region's roads. As a transport expect your thoughts would be particularly welcomed.

We'll definitely be using lots of MMPs--maybe a tutorial for our readers would be a nice idea....

-Noah

[vortext]

Well, this ought to be an interesting project! I'm already looking forward to what you guys are going to do with that map. I have long doubted to play on it myself but in the end decided not to. Still one of my favourite maps though! And if you like some 'help' with trees (i.e. don't feel like mmping the entire map manually) let me know! 


Thanks Erik! The more I look at this map the more I like it. We were just talking about needing your work last evening--it would help Noro a lot 

-Noah

[Swordmaster]

Do I spot some birds?    Water looks okay from here. I think tweaking it will be a bit tougher given that you both need to be synced on all fronts, so I'd keep that to a minimum.

Thoughts on a slope mod? Quite hilly terrain, so what grades for the railways? Of course, this is your map, but if you need any input on that area, I'm happy to give some. I think the main rail corridor should run NW to SW. You'll have an interesting bit crossing that small lake in the SW corner then. I expect your main city will be north of the delta? Excellent location for a railyard (flat, orthogonal, and close to that main line)


Cheers
Willy

PS: Don't forget to reply to our good friend Marius, eh?


You spotted awesome birds, perfectly modded    Glad you like the water, though I disagree on the importance of ours looking exactly the same--small differences are healthy, easily resolvable, and i think unlikely to cause problems. My thoughts on a slope mod would be pretty similar to those in Siilijoki and Robin might very well think the same about MindScape, though he tends to build on flatter areas. I think you'd be an integral part of any slope mod deciding and we'd love as much rail advice as possible. I love your rail plan!

-Noah

[MTT9]

Nice pics! An MMP tutorial would certanly be great. I look foward for a layout plan


Thanks! An MMP tutorial (or at least my techniques) is confirmed for the very new future     Layout plans coming very soon!

-Noah

[MandelSoft]

OK, I came up with a main plan:



The orange circles are cities and down locations. They are preferably located at:
- Coastal areas
- Flatlands between the mountains
- Rivers
- Lakes
These are either locations you can build easily, beneficial for transport or idyllic. We have some good harbour spots here...

The railways go right through the cities. This is usual for rail construction. We have only a few cities here, so only a few railway lines are necessary. You may want to add a railway to the airport, though...

We also have a few motorways, but these go preferably around the city or go through the outskirts of the city (a former city edge). You can also build some access motorways leading to the center of the city, but I think that should be limited. I think making interchanges with the RHW is feasable in this region; it's resonably big and yet undeveloped.

The delta area is presumeably a swamp, so this is an excellent location for a Nature preservatory.

You don't have to completely copy this plan. I left it intentionally vague, so you can fill in the details or change the plan.

So, what do you think? Did I bring you to some ideas?

Best,
Maarten


Maarten, this is just awesome! We'll get into a much deeper discussion of your ideas soon but I need to at least say this for now 

-Noah

[kbieniu7]

Nice shots!
I think that, Maarten's idea with the Nature Reserve looks great for the delta area. Another reserve could be designate by the vulcano. However I wonder if the hill was the best place to build an airport
What is more, if I were you I would also build some minor, single-track rail lines   


Agreed, agreed, and agreed--though with some small differences. Thanks for the volcano reserve idea--maybe we could say it's a non-dangerous Hawaiian style volcano instead of a quite dangerous ash-producing Kamchatkan volcano. I'd like to use the more southeastern mountain as a ski resort someday, as is my wont, but the higher one could be a great place for a park. I think the delta nature preserve is too big but I seem to be the only one   And yes, a number of minor STR lines would be great.

-Noah

[MTT9]

I would use mandelsoft plan if it was a european city. But since you said it would be american...
Personally, i would build my main city behind the delta were there is plenty of flat land for a city, suburbs, etc. Then the port would be, not on the coast but in the river like Antwerp (you can ask Willy about the details) or Philadelphia. I would place an airport pretty close to the main city as in most us cities i've seen, airports tend to be close and get surround by suburbs. And as any us city, i would use many highways, as during the 60's they were considered the best answer to traffic problems and many were built.
All this, however depend on the size of the cities you are planning. Let's see what you guys have thought when you chose this map


Very nice thoughts Matt! I agree on the location of the main city, though there's disagreement about how far up the river it should be. I'm still trying to figure out what the role of the river should be--it's pretty narrow and in real life not very significant--though I'd like it to be something important here. As for airport placement, they can also be placed far away in America, particularly with newer ones (Denver for example). The highway idea is a good one--I've considered in my head the possibility of building the kind of neighborhood-breaking highways they built in the 60's and then later on replacing them with regular avenues or tunnels, subject to a vote here of course. As for city size--it's not so clear. There's at least the potential of a very large one and maybe even multiple big ones. Also likely to be the subject of a vote 

-Noah

[epicblunder]

Ooh exciting.

I hope that airport has some heavy duty equipment for ash removal, because Avachinsky is one of Kamchatka's most active volcanos.  Don't know if that's true in Noro, of course.
Likewise those two towns NE of the airport.  If i lived there i'd be a little worried about, you know, dying painfully.   


Hehe, I think the Noro version will be a bit less dangerous, maybe more Hawaiian style--also nice link   I suppose volcano-related problems could make for an interesting story down the road though

-Noah

[rooker1]

Many of you may have notice already, our reply style will be similiar to that of David's in 3RR.  Everyone will get at least some kind of reply within a day or so at the most.  This way you all will get a very fast reply and it won't take Noah or I all night to reply in our next update and we'll be able to get down to business right away.

Comparing Transit Layouts and a Question

Noah's transit layout.


Noah's transit layout with Willy's suggested rail lines.


Robin's transit layout.  Blue is RHW and black is rail lines.


You'll notice that we all have very similiar ideas, including Maarten's.  Thank very much Maarten for your suggestion, that was an incrdible map and great idea.  Maarten, if you wouldn't mind making a small tutorial on how you made your tranist map, I and I'm sure many others, would really appreciate it.

Noah and I have a question for everyone and we will be putting it to a vote.  We want to make at least part of the delta (tan colored area in the center of the map) a Natural Reserve, we are just unsure at thi point how much of it.
Question is....How much of this area should be claimed for the Natural Reserve?
A. 75% to 100%
B. 50% to 75%
C. 25% to 50%
D. less than 25%

Please use the voting system at the top of this post. 
You can however post your reason(s) in your post as well, that would be greatly appreciated.

Everyone's vote will be worth one point.  Noah and I will vote 7 votes each, worth 14 points in total.  This way it's possible for the final decesion to still be swayed in our favour.  The idea here is to take your opinions into account, but still have it be our creation.  Noah and I have spent hours over this past week throwing around many, many ideas.  Some of which we agree on fully and others not so much.  The not so much part is where we will be asking for your opinions to help us out.  Thanks in advance for your help.

Here are a few teaser pics from our good friend Noah to finish this update off.  Some beautiful seasonal views of the river.




I hope everyone is enjoying everything so far. 
And please remember we are open to as many questions and suggestions as you can bring forth.

Robin

[Simcoug]

This is a very cool project, I'm looking forward to the development of the region. 
And I second the request on Maarten's tutorial - that was an impressive looking transit map!


Thanks! I can't wait to get started with developing   And Maarten did pull through with the tutorial!

-Noah

[whatevermind]

This is....amazing!    I think I'm most interested in the whole collaborative play idea. But the ideas and interest flying around here are great, not to mention the teasers we've been getting so far.

And wow, Maarten, that map! Well done.

I think that last update gets into a very interesting point, besides your very different ideas of how to layout the place, of just what exactly is an American style city. I see Baltimore in Noah's plan and San Jose in Robin's plan. And that's just the major transportation pieces! Just wait until you guys start picking building styles. 

Maarten's map is incredilbe and that's why we have asked him to do his tutorial.  I spent all weekend going over it and I think I just about have something worthy to show everyone.
There is still a lot of planning to go, but we are in the middle of biulding our shared plugins.

-Robin

[MTT9]

Loved the 3RR reply style but back to layouts...

I wouldn't consider Denver as an airport example since "The airport is 25 miles (40 km) driving distance from downtown Denver, which is 19 miles (31 km) further away than Stapleton International Airport, the airport it replaced." But that's just me. Of course you can place the airports however you guys want to.

I like both layouts, the main difference i notice is how near is the central city from the delta, so maybe after deciding how big the natural reserve should be, that might turn itself out.

I'll stay tuned...

Also, it would certanly be great if Maarten could make a tutorial

I have always been afraid of making a realistic airport and Noah and shared the same concerns.  We know one is needed, although out of our comfort zone, we are going to give it our best shoot.  As for where it goes, we are not entirely sure yet.
It also looks like the voting is over now for how much Natural Reserve we will have.

-Robin

[sunv123]

Lol, there should be a Noro Team.

Personally, I like Noah's layout, love the ring around what i think is the main CBD. Great job both of you.

Like the flora, too. Looks great.

NORO Team you say....interesting idea. Not too sure about that yet, but we are open to new ideas and change.
Thanks for stopping by.

-Robin

[epicblunder]

I like robin's transit layout: more rail.

Also, do you guys ever look at the real location of the map you're building on in google earth/maps or do you try to avoid the influence of real world examples?  I was looking at kamchatka around where your map is today for a site to make a map of, and that corner of the world strikes me as almost hauntingly empty.  (but i did find this panaramio photo, good for a 'wth?!')

The biggest difference when it comes to rail is that I did have more lines on my map becasue I tried to show the smaller lines as well.
Looking at the real world location woluld be a great idea in most cases, but I think we are just going to come up with our own plan and go from there.  We choose the map because we saw features that we really liked and thought we would be able to build on with our varying styles.

-Robin

[Swordmaster]

Just back from work but checking in here before hitting the bed

I think Robin's layout is at least equally good; I get the idea it's more multi-city based whereas Noah envisions growth from a central focus. What I love about Noah's plan is the highway in between the mountains. Think National Scenic Byway, or something. (@epicblunder, those are just DTR mainlines in Noah's plan. Industrial branches depend on wherever development will be.) In any case, if you adopt Robin's plan I hope there will be room for that railyard

Glad you like the water, though I disagree on the importance of ours looking exactly the same--small differences are healthy, easily resolvable, and i think unlikely to cause problems.

I was thinking about the terrain exemplar file rather than the actual textures. I've never thought about any of this, of course. Well at least sea level has to be equal


This being said, I think all the planning talk for now is distracting from the flora work already shown. Noah, it looks awesome, but I hate to say, your pictures look a bit like a ripoff from this MD. Try not to simply copy someone else's work, alright?

In all seriousness, maybe a different border color/shape to differentiate from Siilijoki?


Cheers
Willy

Thanks for your thoughts Willy   I think regardless of what else in the plan we adopt those scenic roads are likely to make it in--they pretty much go where the geography tells them too. And National Scenic Byways are a good idea. As for the terrain settings a still think small differences are completely acceptable, though you might be right about keeping a similar sealevel. I'll see what I can do about the borders/image processing, but it's somehow difficult for me to do it differently 

-Noah

[M4346]

I feel that the delta area should be left largely untouched by man-made developments. It is an incredible fragile eco- and water-system and it's health has far reaching impact and consequences for surrounding areas, the bay and the river system.

Save for minor developments to improve accessibility and make the area habitable (camping sites and other accommodation and sanitation facilities) for significant eco-tourism activity, I strongly feel that 75% of the delta should be preserved in a nature conservancy, even granted national park status. 

Hello M, thanks for your opinion.  I hope we decide to have the Detla mostly untouched as well....at least for now.  We'll just have to see what happens in the end.

-Robin

[nbvc]

Interesting project and great start.

Thanks, I hope you enjoy it.

-Robin

[Gugu3]

Very nice!!!this project is really promising

Thanks.  We see some obstacles that still need to be figured out, but we see a lot of promise as well.

-Robin

[MandelSoft]

Ha, great you like my map, but that was for my standards just a quickie in InkScape. I had made a dutch tutorial about that here: http://atlantisgeo.nl/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=148

I only need to translate it then, so here it goes. It's a large tutorial, so I split it in parts...

Part 1: The very beginning

The Tools
InkScape has quite a range of tools. Here's some reference to the most important tools of InkScape:



Importing the base map (either SimCity 4 map or hand-drawn map)
The base map can be imported with the following method:

• Click on the main menu bar on "File" and select "Import" (CTRL+I), or you can click on the "Import" button at the main toolbar at the top.
  
• Select the base map image file from your PC and click on "Open". The base map can be any common image format.
  
• Rotate the map when necessary.
  
• Select on the next screen "Insert" and click on "OK". This option embeds the reference image in your SVG-file.
  TIP 1: SAVE OFTEN! InkScape saves its files in SVG-format (Scale-able Vector Graphics)
  
• Schale the map in such a way that it's scale is representative for the map. It's advised to to do so, because in later steps you get a better idea of the scale of certain objects and it's good for distance measuring. You can choose a scale of for instance 1km = 100 pixels or something like that.
  TIP 2: Hold the CTRL pressed when scaling to keep proportions the same. Hold ALT pressed to scale in integer steps (2x, 3x, 4x, etc.) or integer fractions (1/2x, 1/3x, 1/4x, etc.).
  
• Click on the main menu "File" and select "Document Properties". (CTRL+SHIFT+D)
  
• Open the drop down menu "Scale page to contents" and click on "scale page to drawing or selection". Now the page is exactly the same size as your drawing.

Here's an example of how your map could look like after these steps:



Layers
Layers are components of your drawing. These components are stacked upon each other and can be locked or turned on or off. It's useful to use layers in a SVG-map for technical organisation. In later steps you'll notice how useful this method is.

• Click on the main menu "Layer" and select "Layers..." (CTRL+SHIFT+L)

At the right of your screen, you see a new tab appear called "Layers".



If you hover your mouse over the buttons, you get a description of the function of the correstponding button. However, I would like to tell you the following about it.

• Eye - Hide layer
  
• Lock - Lock layer (disables the editing and selection ability of this layer)

In this tab, the topmost layer in the drawing is the topmost layer on the list.

• Click with your right mouse button on the name of the current layer and change it to "Base Map" as a reference.
  
• Add a new layer with the "+"-button (New Layer) in this tab. Call this layer "Land" and place this one above the previous layer.

Drawing land masses

• Select your new layer
  
• Select the Free Draw-tool
  
• Zoom in (CTRL+mouse wheel) when necessary for precise tracing.
  
• Start with drawing with your mouse.

TIP 3: Draw in steps. You can continue the line at the ends (there are anchors for it there, represented as black squares, where you can continue drawing later on). If you're drawing and you hit the other end of the line, the shape will automatically close.
TIP 4: repeat this steps with smaller and smaller shapes if you want to make a height map.

Colours, fills and strokes

• Go to the menu "Object" and select "Fill and Stroke" (CTRL+SHIFT+F) and the Colour-tab appears at the right of your screen:

You see three tabs: "fill" (filling colour), "stroke" (stroke colour) and "stroke style". The first two tabs are for changing the colours of the fill and the stroke. The third tab is for changing the stroke style, like thickness, rounding and striping style:

• Pick some colours and a line thickness.

TIP 5: use matte, unsaturated colours. These are much more pleasant to look at.

The result will look like this:



Stay tuned for Part 2 and 3!

• Part 2: water, infrastructure and cities.
  
• Part 3: administrative subdivisions and route shields.
  

Best,
Maarten

All we can say is THANK YOU!  Check out our ToC.

-Robin