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Author Topic: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts  (Read 25729 times)

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Offline Rady

Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« on: July 24, 2011, 08:53:23 AM »
Ok, so finally I decided to mover deeper into SC4 and start BATing on my own. COmpared by what I see in the other posts around here, my stage of BATing is somewhat between "bloody noob" and "completely lost" ...  :P

However I want to open up my own thread since after a few hours of working with gmax questions are amounting and I would be glad if all you BAT masters would share a little knowledge with me so I can improve my techniques.

So, first of all - what I'm working on is my barn:



and what I've got so far is this:



So, basically, there are some similarities ...

And now to my problems:

Problem #1

I created the rafters for my barn, and now the axis that are shown when selecting the object have moved away from the center of the object:



Of course now it's impossible for me to set the object to certain coordinates because of this offset ...? So how would I do to align the origin of the axis with the center of the object?

Problem #2

I started applying textures, and it went out fine for the roof. The texture file used looks similar to what I get in gmax:

Texture file:



Compared with above picture of my barn in gmax this is fine.

However for the wall texture this is not true. This is the texture file:



As you can see, the texture is much darker (browner?) in the gmax, and it even looks worse in the resulting fsh file. So how could I lighten up the material in gmax? I haven't found any means to do so. When enabling the Color Map in the Material Editor, changing the output line doesn't reflect in any change in my texture as applied to my wall ...

So, thank's a lot in advance for you support!!





« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 09:25:11 AM by Rady »
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Visit my BAT thread: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attemtps

Offline Girafe

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's fist BAT attempts
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011, 09:25:57 AM »

Always a good new when a new batter decide to do a step futher in the world of modelisation.

For the problem 1, I am not sure to understand.

If you want to align it you have an icon at the left of X button. It allows you to set how do you want to align your shape (pivot center).

If you want to align all your work it's easier. Group all your elements and center it with the axis 0.0.0

Problem 2:

Have a look at the modifier UVW map it's the basic of texturing.
You can check too the coordinates of the textures in the material editor, you have few options for manipulating your textures.

Never forget that in combinaison of BAT you need to work your texture in a software like Gimp or photoshop
You can't aim that the texture is too brown before previewing as the only the preview is what you will have in the game.

If indeed texture is too brown on the preview, modify it on photoshop or gimp :)
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Offline Aaron Graham

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's fist BAT attempts
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2011, 09:30:36 AM »
Look nice, you need to work on your texture like Girafe said, textures are made not find. :D

What is your Grid coordinates, if it's 2.0 divide it by 2, when it comes to bating you will need to know a little math.
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Offline Rady

Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2011, 09:31:13 AM »
Thanks Girafe,

I already managed to improve on problem #2 by lightening the texture in GIMP.  As for problm #1, it's lie this: If you create e.g. a rectangle, the coordinate axis is set at the center of this rectangle. Now when moving the object, you exactly can calculate how far you need to move based on the origin of the axis. For my ravters, the axis somehow origins away from one would assume to be the "center". I already got the information by nvbc that I can move the axis only by selecting "affect pivot only" in the hierarchy menu.


Edit:

Ok, let's discuss the further work: That's how I have come so far:



The problems can clearly be seen:

#1: At the corner, there's a seperation in the wall texture. Basically that's where the two wall elements intersect. How to avoid this?

#2: I assigned a texture to the front door, but it seems there's no texture at the back. So as a general texturing problem: How can I decide on which sides of a standard primitive the texture will appear? E.g., for the door: the texture should be on all sides of the door. But for the wall, I would like to have a different texture at the outer and the inner side?

Edit #2: Final results for today:

GMAX:





and the results from exporting:









Anyone feel free to comment!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 03:04:21 PM by Rady »
If it's a good idea, go ahead and do it. It's much easier to apologize than it is to get permission.

Visit my BAT thread: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attemtps

Offline Buzzit

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2011, 05:36:58 PM »
that looks pretty good! :)
do you have the HD rendering script?

Offline Girafe

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2011, 05:45:41 PM »
At first you have to set up the HD script of simfox above all for tiny things like this.

Concerning you texture problem:

- try the modifier UVW and select box

- you can tiled you texture on gimp

- you can use 1/2 texture that you miror

- you can merge all your walls and put only 1 texture

- you can use something like this:

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Offline Rady

Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2011, 12:28:51 AM »
that looks pretty good! :)
do you have the HD rendering script?

Uhhhh.... ähhhh...   ???  Let's have a look ..  %confuso .. no, it's not here ... neither here ...   ()what() .. what & where exactly would I want to look for that tiny thinggy?


At first you have to set up the HD script of simfox above all for tiny things like this.

Uhmm... see above ..

Concerning you texture problem:

- try the modifier UVW and select box

yes, this render is already with the UVW-box settings to "Box"

- you can tiled you texture on gimp
- you can use 1/2 texture that you miror

I keep that in mind ..

- you can merge all your walls and put only 1 texture

Will try this!

- you can use something like this:


Yep, this came to my mind yesterday when I went to sleep ... I will have a look at these things!

*Off searching for that HD script thinggy*  %confuso

Edit (Jul, 25th):

Managed to find Simfox' GMAX script and plugged it in. Then I followed Girafe's hint and changed the wall to parallelograms as well as combined the upper and lower walls IOT have them have one common texture.

And this is the result of today's (short) BATing session:

GMAX:





and the (HD) BAT export:









So, quite a difference! The only thing that I discovered was that the hinged sliding door on the side wall of the first floor is missing it's texture ... despite the texture is still applied in GMAX, as you can clearly see.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 01:43:08 PM by Rady »
If it's a good idea, go ahead and do it. It's much easier to apologize than it is to get permission.

Visit my BAT thread: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attemtps

Offline Rady

Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 02:10:33 PM »
Got a little more into detailing the barn, and have to admit that I run into several problems. Have a look:

I've started to build the raingutter. Worked out fine apart from the following problems:



1) How do I cut on (editable mesh/poly) along the borders of another? Like in this picture, I would like to cut the vertical connector (red) right where it intersects the gutter (green)

2) How do I align two objects that are not oriented alon the x,y,z-axis? It was easy to align the connector to the first bow, since all I had to do is to aligne maximum/minimum value along the vertical axis. But how can I align the short tube (blue, angeled 60°) with the end of the first bow (green)?

3) Situation 3 only is the sum of all problems ...

Next problem: I would like to have an old oil barrel to collect water from the gutter. Now how would I model these "rings" that are typical for an oil barrel?





I tried to select the edges that from the ring and kinda extrude them, but that doesnt work.

Finally, I tried to give that little ramp a rougher look, since the edges are far to sharp and straight. Is there a modifier that can do that? Tried the "Noise" and "Relax" one, but didn't  work.,
If it's a good idea, go ahead and do it. It's much easier to apologize than it is to get permission.

Visit my BAT thread: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attemtps

Offline vester

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 02:32:52 PM »
About the drainpibe,

You could use lines. Click Display Mesh in the mesh setting. Here you can also change the thickness of the lines.

If you click on Attach the can merge different elements.
The you need the weld the vertices.


Guess you are using mesh. Here you can also attach other meshs to one.
Then select the vertices and weld them.
Maybe you can select the vertices on the other side of the red line of yours and remove them.

On the barrel. You could draw up the outline of it and use the Lathe function on it.

To round edges you could use chamfer on the edges you want to soften up. Just once.


One thing to always keep in mind. The scale of the game. What can be seen or not.
Like... the top of the drain pipe. I would leave it as it is.

(PS: Using 3ds max, a bit different, bot some of the same basics tools)

« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 02:49:58 PM by vester »

Offline supremec

Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2011, 08:14:19 AM »
A very good start with the B.A.T. tool  &apls  &apls
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Offline Rady

Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2011, 01:03:46 PM »
@ vester: thanks for your advice, I will work on the barrel later. Of course you're right about the level of detail in SC4, so I could forget about detailling the raingutter. However, since this is my first BAT project, I also want to learn how gmax works. So I will dwell a little deeper into that topic. At the moment I'm stunned by the fact that a 3D modelling software doesn't have a "cut object A along the outline of object B"-function by default .... will see.

@ buzzit: already got the HD rendering script as you can see from the posted images!

@ supremec: thanks!

Now, today I wanted to put my still unfinished work on a lot IOT use it in-game and compare it to other buildings taht would be assuemd to go along with that barn (like e.g. farms). Here comes massive frustration, part #2  :'(

I exported it from gmax, started SC4 Plugin Manager and assigend the building to the "Landmark" category. Then, I fired up Lot Editor, selected a simple 1x1 Landmark Lot and tried to put my barn on it. Which failed, because in gmax I centered the scene on the tile, not on the axis origin (easy to deal with that, anyway). So I changed the Lot size to 2x2 and plaxed my cute barn (extracted from the Model file using iLIve's Reader):





Worked out fine, expet for the fact that my barn isn't looking cute anymore. As a matter of fact, it isn't looking at all ... all I got was this:



which changed (but obviously not improved) to this at the two closest zoom levels:



 %bur2$

Now ... please help!   :P
If it's a good idea, go ahead and do it. It's much easier to apologize than it is to get permission.

Visit my BAT thread: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attemtps

Offline peter007

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2011, 01:26:55 PM »
Just re-fit the LODS & export again.
Great work on your farm BTW

Offline vester

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2011, 02:40:56 PM »
At the moment I'm stunned by the fact that a 3D modelling software doesn't have a "cut object A along the outline of object B"-function by default

Well it does, but is faulted. It is called boolean, but does work that well in gmax.



Start a new scene/file in gmax and merge the old file into it (you might need to leave out the Lods).

Offline Rady

Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2011, 05:06:56 PM »
@ Peter007: Thanks! Did that in combination with vester's advice - se result below!

@ vester: Thanks! Merging into a new scene (with deleting the LODs first) worked out fine. As for the boolean function .... I will investigate in that later.

Now here are some in-game pictures for general discussion: The size of the barn seems to fit compared with the houses in these pictures, but not with the large stable. However, when comparing the size of JMyers stable to the house next to it, the stable seemds kinda oversized, too (as far as the dimension of the door and windows is concerened), so this might not be a proper object for comparison:

Picture #1: Comparison of the house, cars etc. with the size of my barn - seems to be ok:



Picture #2: Compared with the house, the dimensions seem to be ok:



Picture #3: Same lot from JMyers as before, but now compared with JMyers stable - my barn is way to small:



In addition (as far as a I see what needs to be done):

  • the roof seems to be to bright - will need to detone that
  • the ramp leading into the house seems to float
  • of course the lot is not slope-conforming yet ...

What do you think about the wall texture .. I would think it could be ok ... possibly I should add some dirt at the base area, but I'm overall satisfied how the white turned out .. not to white, but not grey, either.

Glad to read your thoughts on my barn!
If it's a good idea, go ahead and do it. It's much easier to apologize than it is to get permission.

Visit my BAT thread: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attemtps

Offline peter007

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2011, 06:05:28 PM »
Great progress.

About the scale of your farms.
I think that the height is very good for your building. You only have to adjust the scale on the X- Y-Axis.
Don't you think?
And regarding your question about texturing. I would look how other buildings are and find some tutorials about texturing. You may need a good site to search for textures like;
http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php
But you have to know that textures are made not found so you always have to manipulate your textures a bit. Otherwise they may look odd or just not good enough. Sometimes you have to tear the textures apart or maybe just adding some decals. You can even add some details and relief in it, but since you're not going to model it in I guess you can leave that out.

If you want to know more you can always PM me. I will try as hard as I can to give you some proper advice.

-Ernst

Offline Rady

Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2011, 02:02:32 AM »
Great progress.

Thank you!

About the scale of your farms.
I think that the height is very good for your building. You only have to adjust the scale on the X- Y-Axis.
Don't you think?

So what you are saying is that I should enlarge the x/y dimension, I suppose? I will give it a try and save it as an extra model so we can compare the outcome in-game.

And regarding your question about texturing. I would look how other buildings are and find some tutorials about texturing. You may need a good site to search for textures like;
http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php

Thanks, the textures used here are from that site actually. What I have to learn now is how to "age" the texture, like to add dirt and signs of usage ..  "$Deal"$

If you want to know more you can always PM me. I will try as hard as I can to give you some proper advice.

Thanks, I will remember that offer in times of despair ..  ;D


Rady
If it's a good idea, go ahead and do it. It's much easier to apologize than it is to get permission.

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Offline peter007

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2011, 04:00:05 AM »
Quote
And regarding your question about texturing. I would look how other buildings are and find some tutorials about texturing. You may need a good site to search for textures like;
http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php

So what you are saying is that I should enlarge the x/y dimension, I suppose? I will give it a try and save it as an extra model so we can compare the outcome in-game.

Well I think that you should better reduce the X- Y- axis  ;)

-Ernst

Offline Girafe

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2011, 05:18:27 AM »
be dirty on your textures !!  :P
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Offline Rady

Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2011, 06:42:22 AM »
be dirty on your textures !!  :P

verrry dirrrty!!   :P  I will give it a try!
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Offline Aaron Graham

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Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2011, 10:35:26 AM »
Look good, just do what they said. :D
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