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Author Topic: RTMT and FLUPS  (Read 12400 times)

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Offline z

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RTMT and FLUPS
« on: July 09, 2010, 09:14:21 PM »
With the increasing popularity and functionality of FLUPS, I've been thinking about how best to make RTMT work with it.  What I've come up with requires minimal changes to RTMT; in fact, they can just be made as an update to the existing RTMT Add-On Pack v3.60.  Here's what I propose:

All RTMT stations with subway stairs would automatically serve any FLUPS networks that passed below them.  There are essentially two major types of FLUPS:  road and tram.  For roads, the RTMT stop would serve as a FLUPS bus stop if a FLUPS network passed below it.  The one limitation here is that freight trucks could not be allowed through such a stop; due to the way transit switches work, freight trucks could end up popping out on the surface road if they were allowed.  But although this is a restriction, it's no more of a restriction than currently exists, since FLUPS freight trucks can't currently pass underneath an RTMT stop.  If players want a FLUPS road network that carries freight trucks, then it just needs to avoid passing under an RTMT stop; this is what is currently required anyway.  So RTMT stations could service FLUPS roads that crossed underneath the road on which the RTMT station was located.

The second case is underground trams.  There are two cases here:  those RTMT stations that are on plain roads or avenues, and those RTMT stations that are on roads and avenues with tram lines going down their middle.  In the latter case, the RTMT stations would service FLUPS tram networks that crossed below them, just as in the road network case.  In the former case, they would still serve the crossing networks, but they could also serve tram lines that ran below the main road.  In all cases, UDI support would be available.

Comments and questions on this proposal are welcome.  As I mentioned, this would be very simple to do; it would merely require the addition of some transit switches to those RTMT stations that have subway stairs.

Offline z

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Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2010, 11:21:36 PM »
I'm getting ready to implement this feature, and it occurred to me that there are a couple of other things that could be added that many people may find useful:

FLUPS Garages:  The original intention was just to have bus stops for the FLUPS roadways.  But why stop there?  Garages are really convenient in this game; they just take up precious real estate.  If you already have cars traveling underground through FLUPS, why not let them park at an underground garage right below an RTMT stop?  Or, you could simply have a FLUPS ramp leading down into the side of an RTMT stop, where a nice large underground garage awaits.  Then the Sims can park their cars, take the stairs to the surface, and either walk to their destination or catch a bus.  Or maybe there's a train or high speed rail stop near that station.  Or there might be a subway going through that station, and the Sims can go directly from the underground garage to the subway.

But that's not enough?  You want more?  OK then, how about:

Underground Rail crossings:  As part of the main FLUPS support, there will be support for underground tram crossings, complete with stations.  But in order to support UDI, FLUPS has to path its tram routes with rail paths.  So if RTMT is to maintain this UDI support for underground trams, it has to allow underground rail crossings as well.  And if it allows those crossings, it might as well have stations for them.  (Note:  This is completely separate and complementary to the RTMT Underground Rail stations, which will be following next, and which will also have full FLUPS support.)  So an RTMT subway station will now be able to support all forms of travel types, with the exception of monorail.  What about freight trucks and freight trains?  There can be stops for them as well so that if the proper network connections are built, freight can be transferred from truck to train or vice versa.  Also, contrary to what I stated in my previous post, there can be through freight truck service without having trucks jumping to the service, as I have since figured out how to do this.

Once again, comments are welcome.


Offline catty

Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2010, 11:36:23 PM »

love the idea about the RTMT and FLUPS, especially the garage idea I currently use;

cogeo PedMall Compatible Transit Pack  http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=13147

as it gives me an underground car park on top of my bus stop, so would love to see more options

 :)
I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" DEATH thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE.

Offline z

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Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 04:17:30 PM »
Since there's nothing like a picture to show what's going on, I thought I'd illustrate some of the possibilities here.  The actual situation conveyed is somewhat artificial, but it does give a good idea of what the options are:



The combination bus and subway station works just as before.  However, in this picture, the upper line of ped mall tiles is a FLUPS network, while the lower line is an underground rail network.  In the FLUPS network, there can be through traffic for cars, buses, freight trucks, and/or underground tram.  The underground rail can carry both passenger and freight trains.  At the RTMT stations there is the possibility for the FLUPS cars to park in the new underground garage, and their passengers can then transfer to buses on the FLUPS or on the surface road.  Briefly, passengers coming into this station from any direction can transfer to any type of transportation that carries passengers, including any existing subway.  Pedestrians can also descend the stairs and take any of the forms of mass transit.  There is also an underground freight station where FLUPS freight trucks can transfer their freight to the underground freight trains, or vice versa.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2010, 04:45:13 AM by z »

Offline k808j

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Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 04:59:12 PM »
Good job and since you're flupping the RTMT can you flup it for NWM?

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Offline z

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Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 05:40:34 PM »
When the RTMT NWM stations are released, they will be enabled for FLUPS as described above, as will all RTMT stations released from now on.

Offline ScottFTL

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Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 09:58:42 PM »
I only see one set of stairs.  Is that one RTMT station on the road above serving both the underground rail and underground tram?

This is fantastic stuff.  You've really taken the RTMT to another level.   &apls

Offline z

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Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 11:30:12 PM »
I only see one set of stairs.  Is that one RTMT station on the road above serving both the underground rail and underground tram?

Yes; this is not uncommon.  When I lived in Boston, you could take a single set of stairs down that would lead either to the underground tram or to the subway.  Underground lines in these situations tend to be connected to each other.

I've been considering adding a second set of stairs to this particular station, though; even for stations that serve just subway, a set of stairs on either side of the street is common.  And for those situations where you have multiple lines, I think it would look better.  What do other people think?

Offline z

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Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2010, 01:14:40 AM »
I have finished implementing these new features.  Furthermore, I also implemented them for RTMT stations without subway connections, as well as the GLR transitions.  Since these stations have no subway stairs, the networks simply pass under the RTMT stations.  This means that all RTMT stations now support these features.

Testers, you know where to find the stations.  Have fun!  ;)

For those people who have asked to be testers but have not been part of the testing team in the past, I am working with the administrators to get access to the testing boards for you.  I will let you know as soon as I have results.

If you would like to join the group of RTMT testers and have not previously contacted me, please either post in the Call for RTMT Team Members, Associates, and Testers thread, or send me a PM. Thanks!

Offline z

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Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2010, 01:01:43 AM »
While testing out the new RTMT stations, an anomaly was found that affects all RTMT stations that are used near either FLUPS or road overpasses.  Please see this post in the FLUPS thread for a full description of the problem, as well as a workaround for it.

Offline z

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Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2010, 02:17:04 AM »
For those of you who may have been wondering whatever happened to this project, please be assured that it is alive and well, and that the RTMT Team has been working hard on it for the last three months.  It's just that this project has turned out to be a bit a lot more complicated than I expected.  ::)   Most of the complications arose from the fact that it ended up not being possible to incorporate these features into the existing set of RTMT stations; instead, a whole second set of stations had to be developed.  When this project is finished, the total number of RTMT stations will be more than double the current number.

Why more than double?  Consider the following situation, which has a 1x1 bus and subway station with a road FLUP passing underneath it:


Normally, this station would just be a bus shelter across from a set of subway stairs.  But if you look at the thickness of that overpass, you see that there's no room for subway stairs there.  So this station has been relotted to provide a set of stairs on each side; the stairs can be used either to descend to the subway, or to the bus stop that is at the center of the underpass (and conveniently invisible).  The station is still 1x1; the two sets of subway stairs are overhanging props.

For double-length stations, there would be two versions of the station:  one with one set of subway stairs moved outside the station, to accommodate single-tile FLUPs or Underground Rail, and one with both pairs of subway stairs moved outside the station, one on each side, to accommodate double-tile FLUPs, two single-tile FLUPs, two sets of Underground Rail tracks, or a combination of FLUP and Underground Rail.

Adding the different versions of the double-length stations is not a big deal; only about five stations are involved, and most of it is just standard copy-and-pasta work.  Unfortunately, most of these stations, such as the one pictured above, cannot be placed at intersections due to the overhanging subway stairs.  Intersection stations are especially valuable because they automatically serve both roads.  So one alternative would be to keep a second (or third) version of the station that is identical to the original, for use in situations where the FLUP or Underground Rail is completely underground on both sides of the station; such a situation is shown in Reply #3 above.  In this case, having the subway stairs right on top of the FLUP or Underground Rail is not a problem, as it can be assumed that the tunnels are deep enough for the stairs to work properly.  These additional stations would require essentially no extra work at all, since they represent the stations in their original form.  The only disadvantage would be that there would be a fair number of extra stations.  They would be clearly marked and differentiated systematically in both the regular menus and the DAMN menus, so it would be as easy as possible to tell which station was which.  And all of these stations will have their own MML in the regular menu, so they can be completely hidden while leaving the current standard stations available.  The FLUP/Underground Rail stations will also be in a group in the Maxis menus that's adjacent to but completely separate from the standard stations to avoid confusion and to make navigation easier.

So should a form of these stations with the original layout be maintained, both for use at intersections and at other places where overhanging subway stairs would be inappropriate?  (Road curves or diagonals come to mind here.)  The only cost is the extra stations in the menus.  Please let us know what you think.

Offline RickD

Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 04:03:41 AM »
Well, I personally don't mind a few extra icons. The menu is overloaded anyway and my scroll wheel finger is well trained. And I like to place bus stops directly at intersections.
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Offline TiFlo

Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 07:10:58 AM »
I really like it, it makes a lot of sense to be set up that way. And I don't mind the extra icons, I DAMN the entire RTMT anyway.

Offline catty

Re: RTMT and FLUPS
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2015, 04:10:50 PM »

You may want to keep an eye on this topic   ;D

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=17222.0
I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" DEATH thought about it. "CATS," he said eventually, "CATS ARE NICE.