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Author Topic: PIM X Question ** Resolved **  (Read 6251 times)

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Offline Simmer2

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PIM X Question ** Resolved **
« on: December 07, 2015, 07:28:01 PM »
Hello all.
I'm working on a rather big lot with lots of props, textures and overlays.

Just wondering if anyone has seen this before.
This is the message I get when I try to plop another prop.

"Traceback (most recent call last)
File "SC4LotPreview.pyo" , line 227, in onData
KeyError : 229728144L"

Is there a limit on props, ect. that PIM X allows to plop on a lot?
Because if I delete a prop then I can plop another, if a delete 2 then I can plop 2 more but can't add anymore.
If I try then I get that message.

Edit* to say that I even tried loading the lot on LE and it seems like I reached the limit on prop/overlays and textures. Cannot add anything, it just won't update the lot, after I save and reload it's still shows unchanged, even if I rename the lot :(

If I save or save as, it actually makes multiple copies of the lot in the plugin folder. What gives????

Help! I worked countless hours on that lot!

Sim.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 10:01:47 AM by Simmer2 »
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PIM X Question ** Resolved **
« on: December 07, 2015, 07:28:01 PM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline mgb204

Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2015, 11:55:33 PM »
Indeed there is a limit to the number of items on a lot. This limit includes textures, overlays, props and everything else, it's something like 1,200 items. If you've exceeded that, there is no work-around. This problem tend to come up with larger mega-lots, a good solution is to break the lot into smaller modules that can be used together.

PIM-X is smarter than the Maxis tools, it can save files anywhere or within a dat. The Maxis tools only save in the root folder of your plugins. If the file you loaded is elsewhere it will create a new copy here, rather than overwrite the original. Save As will always make a copy, as that's exactly what the function is intended for.

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2015, 11:55:33 PM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Simmer2

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2015, 12:21:56 AM »
Indeed there is a limit to the number of items on a lot. This limit includes textures, overlays, props and everything else, it's something like 1,200 items. If you've exceeded that, there is no work-around. This problem tend to come up with larger mega-lots, a good solution is to break the lot into smaller modules that can be used together.

PIM-X is smarter than the Maxis tools, it can save files anywhere or within a dat. The Maxis tools only save in the root folder of your plugins. If the file you loaded is elsewhere it will create a new copy here, rather than overwrite the original. Save As will always make a copy, as that's exactly what the function is intended for.

Dang!! So the limit applies to both tools I guess :(
Can't really break this lot apart because it's a massive rail yard.
I guess I'm going to have to drop some props.

That's too bad though, one wonders why the small limit of 1200 if you are actually allowed to make max size lots of 64x64. That's like 4096 base textures alone

My lot is a mere 22x17 in comparison.
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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2015, 12:21:56 AM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline mgb204

Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2015, 12:34:16 AM »
I don't think I've ever seen a 64x64 lot in the wild, it might be the game limit, but Maxis never went much larger than 6x6 for lots. Either way, it's just one of those things we can't change. 1200 isn't the exact number, but it's a lot better than the 64-something you get for an asset in Skylines.

If you are using both base and overlay textures, that's almost 800 items before you begin. If you combined the base and overlay textures into a new base texture, you could half the number of textures off the bat. IMO, rail yards are probably better as modular lots, this way you can use the same set of pieces to build many different combinations.

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2015, 12:34:16 AM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Andreas

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2015, 05:54:28 AM »
We had to break the SFBT Lomonossov University into three lots due to the same problem, and even on those smaller lots, the item limit probably was maxed out quite a bit. Slicing your lot in two halfs or so shouldn't be that much of a problem if you make two copies, and delete one half of the items from each lot, move the rest to the origin of the coordinates and then resize the lot.
Andreas

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2015, 05:54:28 AM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline vortext

Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2015, 07:55:49 AM »
it's something like 1,200 items.

nitpicker incoming.  :P

The exact number is 1280. And since the building always takes up one lotconfig item, it leaves 1279 items for textures, props and flora.  :)

But yeah, this is a hard limit so chopping up your lot is the only way around it, as Andreas said it's rather easy to do though.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 08:00:04 AM by vortext »

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2015, 07:55:49 AM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Girafe

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2015, 12:01:40 PM »
To liberate slot, plop the flora as MMPS  :P I know good sets  ;D
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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2015, 12:01:40 PM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Simmer2

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2015, 12:13:00 PM »
We had to break the SFBT Lomonossov University into three lots due to the same problem, and even on those smaller lots, the item limit probably was maxed out quite a bit. Slicing your lot in two halfs or so shouldn't be that much of a problem if you make two copies, and delete one half of the items from each lot, move the rest to the origin of the coordinates and then resize the lot.

Hi Andreas, Vortext and mgb204
Ok so I looked at that solution, the halve splitting and found myself in a conundrum.
The orientation of this lot is problematic. The only solution is to resize it height wise due to the myriad of tracks in the rail yard, so in that case I could erase the rail yard on lot 1 and move the lower (road facing) textures/overlays and props to the upper piece. However for the lower lot I would have to rebuild it from scratch because you cannot resize the upper (non road facing) part.
I guess its back to the drawing board for me...*sigh*.

Thank you

Simmer2 (Nick)
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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2015, 12:13:00 PM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Simmer2

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2015, 12:16:18 PM »
To liberate slot, plop the flora as MMPS  :P I know good sets  ;D

Oh yes :) I use all of your flora, as a matter of fact 95% of the flora chosen to go on this lot are your creations  &apls
I just wanted to make it "plug and play" for anyone also that wanted to play with it when eventually I would upload it  &Thk/(
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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2015, 12:16:18 PM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Andreas

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2015, 12:28:11 PM »
Is "plug and play" for potential downloaders the only problem that holds you back from splitting the lot in halves? Unless there are props and buildings that would be "cut" in halves somehow, I don't see a problem doing it like I advised, since you can select a huge number of items with dragging a rectangle around them, and move them at once with just one drag. It might not work for stacked overlay textures, but there shouldn't be so many that it becomes a huge chore. When you move the items precisely, there shouldn't be any visual gap when placing two lots next to each other.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 12:31:04 PM by Andreas »
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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2015, 12:28:11 PM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Simmer2

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2015, 12:45:07 PM »
Is "plug and play" for potential downloaders the only problem that holds you back from splitting the lot in halves? Unless there are props and buildings that would be "cut" in halves somehow, I don't see a problem doing it like I advised, since you can select a huge number of items with dragging a rectangle around them, and move them at once with just one drag. It might not work for stacked overlay textures, but there shouldn't be so many that it becomes a huge chore. When you move the items precisely, there shouldn't be any visual gap when placing two lots next to each other.

Oh I see no problem dragging and dropping form the lower (road facing) half to the upper, its the other way around that is not possible because
 when you resize, it always does from the road facing side.
Sorry if I'm not being clear, PIM-X and LE always resizes road side and right side.
...wait a sec!! What happens if I turn the lot 180 degrees? Does PIM-X and LE resize from the lower side? (screen orientation wise?)
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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2015, 12:45:07 PM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Andreas

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2015, 01:26:25 PM »
Yeah, I know it only resizes from one side. That's the whole reason why I was explaining how to move the items. For the other half of the lot, you just delete half of them, resize the lot, and you're done.

Let's assume you have a square lot, 20x20 tiles, and the road is facing south (below the lot) in LE. Now you can either split the lot vertically, so you have to place two lots next to each other along the road, or you slice it horizontally, so one lot would be adjacent to the road, and the other one would connect at the far side. Slicing vertically might be better, in case the lot needs road access.

Regardless which you choose, if you enter "10" in either of the fields of the lot size in LE, it will show immediately which part gets "cut". Now remove everything that exceeds the lot borders, save it as "lot1", exit LE, restart it and load your original lot again.

Now you lower the other value to "10", and you'll see which items need to be removed. Delete those first (before resizing, just to be sure), then move the remaining stuff 10 tiles to the left (or upwards), then do the actual resize, and eventually save the lot as "lot2" or whichever naming convention you want to choose.

Just keep in mind that both lots need a building, even if it's just an invisible one, like on a park lot. It might be possible that you have to pick another building for the other half of the lot if the one you used isn't invisible. But even if you don't find a suitable one, there is a little modding step that can remove it, I'll tell you how in case you need to know (for now, I'll try to avoid further confusion, though).
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 01:44:50 PM by Andreas »
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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2015, 01:26:25 PM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Simmer2

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 04:02:12 PM »
Yeah, I know it only resizes from one side. That's the whole reason why I was explaining how to move the items. For the other half of the lot, you just delete half of them, resize the lot, and you're done.

Let's assume you have a square lot, 20x20 tiles, and the road is facing south (below the lot) in LE. Now you can either split the lot vertically, so you have to place two lots next to each other along the road, or you slice it horizontally, so one lot would be adjacent to the road, and the other one would connect at the far side. Slicing vertically might be better, in case the lot needs road access.

Regardless which you choose, if you enter "10" in either of the fields of the lot size in LE, it will show immediately which part gets "cut". Now remove everything that exceeds the lot borders, save it as "lot1", exit LE, restart it and load your original lot again.

Now you lower the other value to "10", and you'll see which items need to be removed. Delete those first (before resizing, just to be sure), then move the remaining stuff 10 tiles to the left (or upwards), then do the actual resize, and eventually save the lot as "lot2" or whichever naming convention you want to choose.

Just keep in mind that both lots need a building, even if it's just an invisible one, like on a park lot. It might be possible that you have to pick another building for the other half of the lot if the one you used isn't invisible. But even if you don't find a suitable one, there is a little modding step that can remove it, I'll tell you how in case you need to know (for now, I'll try to avoid further confusion, though).

Thank you for the explanation.
Splitting vertically North to South (90 degrees from the road) is not an option due to the complexity of the multi switch rail yard which goes East to West.
However it is possible to split horizontally (East to West) because the north section (rail yard) part has no road access (it will be visually textures/overlays road connected to the lower half). I could make the upper section into an eye candy lot.
Tonight I will look at my options and will report any progress.

Knowing that there is such support from SC4 legends such as you guys, makes lotting/modding rather comfortable  &apls

Cheers, Simmer2 (Nick)
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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 04:02:12 PM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Simmer2

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2015, 09:01:50 AM »
Hi Andreas.
Success!!!
Here are the before and after  ;D
Just needs a bit more polishing and then its test time  :-[

Before.


After.


Thank you for your patience.
Simmer2
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 10:46:40 AM by Simmer2 »
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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2015, 09:01:50 AM »

Re: PIM X Question

Offline Simcoug

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2015, 09:12:26 AM »
That is one monster lot (well, 2 lots)!  Nice work  :thumbsup:

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Re: PIM X Question
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2015, 09:12:26 AM »

Re: PIM X Question ** Resolved **

Offline Andreas

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Re: PIM X Question ** Resolved **
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2015, 10:44:25 AM »
Now that looks quite impressive! I'm glad you found a way around the problem. Such roadblocks are always annoying when creating custom content, but I'd say you're on the right track (pun intended) alright. ;)
Andreas

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Re: PIM X Question ** Resolved **
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2015, 10:44:25 AM »

Re: PIM X Question ** Resolved **

Offline YouBet

Re: PIM X Question ** Resolved **
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2015, 03:58:29 PM »
Terrific lot...

Related, but off topic, question: Where did you get the RRW-compatible wide-radius curve and STR textures? I can see them in Reader, but what pack do you load to get them into PIMX?

Probably a noob question, but it has stumped me.


aaahhh... just saw that you opened a new thread covering just this item.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 04:01:11 PM by YouBet »

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Re: PIM X Question ** Resolved **
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2015, 03:58:29 PM »

 


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