Sim City 4 Devotion Forums

SimCity 4 Devotion Custom Content Showcase => Network Addon Mod (NAM) => NAM Creations => Topic started by: Chrisim on December 25, 2008, 06:15:33 PM

Title: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on December 25, 2008, 06:15:33 PM
FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs) are included in the NAM - no additional download is required. FLUPs consists of underground network puzzle pieces. Car traffic moves below the surface - it's the opposite to elevated road puzzle pieces. You simply plop two or more ramps and connect them with puzzle pieces. The system works also for underground freight traffic, for underground road networks like avenues, one-way roads, streets and RHW, for underground tram routes (including tram-avenue) and for pedestrian tunnels. FLUPs pieces do NOT work correctly for underground rail - please use the special underground rail pieces.

FLexible UnderPasses are usually build on flat terrain and do often cross below other networks (train, road, highway, canals, ...) or parks or custom pieces. It's a fully functional system, the traffic simulator works, UDI can pass and automata work (although they disappear when entering a ramp, they usually appear again at the other end). There is one important drawback, though; you cannot plop lots on top of it.

FLexible road UnderPasses have existed since the January 2009 NAM. The model of the Marrast road underpass is used as road ramp, but unlike the static Marrast underpass lots, FLUPs are flexible and modular and allow more complex underpasses.  The idea for these puzzle pieces also came from the similar rail underground puzzle pieces inside the NAM. FLUPs puzzle pieces can be recognized by their tiny manhole covers at their edges.

FLexible oneway road and avenue UnderPasses were included in the June 2009 NAM. You simply plop two or more ramps and connect them with FLUPs puzzle pieces. For the underground connection, you simply plop FLUPs pieces - they work for either road, oneway or avenue underground. The ramps define how the traffic is using the connections.

FLexible tram and tram-avenue UnderPasses are included in the May 2010 NAM, using the same system.

NAM version 30 contains one new FLUPs functionality: you can now build underpass avenue roundabouts (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6626.msg399089#msg399089).

Here is the link to the tutorial (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10876.0), how to build such FLexible UnderPasses.

Some images - a tram-avenue underpass below rail:
(http://i.imgur.com/CIlKEVK.jpg)
I needed such an underpass in one of my cities, and that's why I started modding in 2007.

An urban area with lack of space:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/1cce920671517e266d203f84d624ef91.jpg)
The avenue passes below the rail (using two straight FLUPs pieces below rail) and two T-junctions connect it to the two road ramps. The tiny manhole covers indicate the subsurface connections.

Caspervg's underpass from Casper's Portfolio - Update 19: Plymouth's Industry and Residentials - 17th (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4833.msg208500#msg208500):
(http://i.imgur.com/ApahYlB.jpg)

The O'Shaughnessy Tunnel under New Dublin Harbor (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=58.msg286375#msg286375) by jpj_starfleet is a complex functional underpass system:
(http://i.imgur.com/CC1pRBF.jpg)

More examples (click to increase the image size):
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/b84bf3314afe925a32983229e7695277.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/b84bf3314afe925a32983229e7695277.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/482159d543aa92a48f6586baa59be104.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/482159d543aa92a48f6586baa59be104.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/7f500833532ba991270867d492bf2b1f.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/7f500833532ba991270867d492bf2b1f.jpg)

-------
Bug correction: The underground tram junction under avenue-road junction has faulty paths. Copy the dat file from the attached zip-file into your NAM Plugins sub-folder.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on December 25, 2008, 06:16:05 PM
Some links to real underpass photos:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Lefortovo-tunnel.jpg/800px-Lefortovo-tunnel.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Lefortovo-tunnel.jpg/800px-Lefortovo-tunnel.jpg)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Mannheim-Fahrlachtunnel.jpg/800px-Mannheim-Fahrlachtunnel.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Mannheim-Fahrlachtunnel.jpg/800px-Mannheim-Fahrlachtunnel.jpg)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Murray_Hill_Tunnel_taxis.jpg/800px-Murray_Hill_Tunnel_taxis.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/62/Murray_Hill_Tunnel_taxis.jpg/800px-Murray_Hill_Tunnel_taxis.jpg)
http://www.wsa-kiel.wsv.de/images/kanal/tunnel/StraTu/Luftbild_StraTu_gross.jpg (http://www.wsa-kiel.wsv.de/images/kanal/tunnel/StraTu/Luftbild_StraTu_gross.jpg)

A first picture of FLUPs can be found in Casper's Portfolio - Update 19: Plymouth's Industry and Residentials - 17th (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4833.msg208500#msg208500):
(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp328/CasperVg/Update19_1.jpg)

By the way, you can also create underwater underpasses with these puzzle pieces (sorry, it's just an ugly test city and I have improved the texture since this early test photo):
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/85018a40cfb81ef292cc2b3253420dc6.jpg)
And these tunnels do not have to be straight:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/741c3b4f43598a1b807ac62ead3d4de9.jpg)
However, you cannot build bridges across underpasses.
It's funny to observe the automata underwater during UDI:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/bbfb393f16a25796eca924cf5aca0abf.jpg)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: nerdly_dood on December 25, 2008, 06:27:49 PM
Well, that'll be handy, won't it... We've got networks on the ground, elevated networks as puzzle pieces and now this...  :thumbsup: I'd like to see what exactly can be done with the FLUPs.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: andreharv on December 25, 2008, 07:16:41 PM
That is awsome!  I am a big fan of marrast's underpasses and I feel like this is the apex of development.  Though Blahdy's underpasses were marvelous for their detail, I didn't like the fact that it utilized subways for underground transport since the transition between networks sometimes caused pathing issues.  How thrilling!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Pat on December 25, 2008, 08:46:59 PM
Daaang Chrism!!! you're on fire lately!!!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jixor on December 25, 2008, 09:47:52 PM
I guess other than the underwater it doesn't really add anything that you can't do with the raised pieces, however it looks fantastic! I'll certainly replace a few ugly raised roads with this.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Sartoris on December 25, 2008, 10:00:55 PM
So these are the raised puzzle pieces with different models? Neat.
Not just neat. Awesome.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Swamper77 on December 25, 2008, 10:12:56 PM
So these are the raised puzzle pieces with different models? Neat.
Not just neat. Awesome.  :thumbsup:

Actually, these are ground level puzzle pieces with paths that are below ground level. Almost all puzzle pieces can be placed in water.

-Swamper
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: girlfromverona on December 26, 2008, 03:40:48 AM
Looking good! Can't wait to see more pics.  &apls
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: A200 on December 26, 2008, 03:54:59 AM
wow awesome!  :D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Glazert on December 26, 2008, 04:26:36 AM
These will be a great innovation. If RHW versions were released, it might partially solve the no-RHW tunnels issue, at least for underwater tunnels.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: TheChosenOne on December 26, 2008, 06:50:12 AM
OMG this looks AWESOME!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: SimNation on December 26, 2008, 09:20:18 AM
I have a question,I am sure others will ask this as well. If you have underpass's that used the subway transit switch method of going underground will you be able to upgrade them to this method?. BuddyBud unoffically released underpass's in his old thread at the Stex eions ago and work 100% like blahdys and marrasts but were 1x1 and I would love to be able to continue to use them but with this new method. Great work on this btw

Also one more Q. Will it effect shipping at all? I mean will it make the game crash or anything if ships are sailing across the water and you have a tunnel underneath.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on December 26, 2008, 11:40:41 AM
Yes guys, this mod really does come in handy.
ChriSim, I would suggest a real tall disappearing prop on the plain straight, and turn underpass pieces for building underwater, so you can see where they are. Without that, it can be tricky.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Meastro444 on December 26, 2008, 11:59:07 AM
can those underpasses be crossed by a Ferry?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Jonathan on December 26, 2008, 01:40:48 PM
Yes they can:(click for bigger)
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa230/warriorST/yepferriesgo.jpg) (http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa230/warriorST/yepferriesgo.jpg)(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa230/warriorST/yepferriesgo2.jpg) (http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa230/warriorST/yepferriesgo2.jpg)
Also you can tell the direction of the underground road by the drains, and now this tile is transparent.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa230/warriorST/yepferriesgo3.jpg) (http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa230/warriorST/yepferriesgo3.jpg)

Jonathan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Banger on December 26, 2008, 01:44:23 PM
It is very awsome!  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: nerdly_dood on December 26, 2008, 03:04:01 PM
Nice!

One question.. What do they look like with the draw-paths cheat turned on - do the paths show up properly, or does the ground hide them or what?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: michl on December 26, 2008, 03:26:46 PM
Oh, this is very awesome! I´m dreaming oft the next NAM...  ;D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on December 26, 2008, 04:11:17 PM
Bingo! Just what I needed. Now I don't have to tediously dig tunnels underneath waterways xD

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on December 26, 2008, 05:54:01 PM
Thank you, Jonathan (Warrior), for posting your images and answering some questions  :)

I have a question,I am sure others will ask this as well. If you have underpass's that used the subway transit switch method of going underground will you be able to upgrade them to this method?. BuddyBud unoffically released underpass's in his old thread at the Stex eions ago and work 100% like blahdys and marrasts but were 1x1 and I would love to be able to continue to use them but with this new method.
First of all to clarify: if you are using lot based underpasses (by BuddyBud, Blahdy, Marrast, Aithon or Jeronij), you can continue using them. This is in addition and there is no conflict.

FLUPs shall start small with one network (road) and one ramp in the next NAM version. If it is popular, there might be updates. And if Blahdy and/or BuddyBud would allow the use of their ramps for a future version of FLUPs, I would happily implement them. I haven't contacted them yet. First I wait for the release and the feedback on this version.

ChriSim, I would suggest a real tall disappearing prop on the plain straight, and turn underpass pieces for building underwater, so you can see where they are. Without that, it can be tricky.
A good idea, but I cannot promise it. I hope that there is a transparent water mod (for temporary use), does it exist?

One question.. What do they look like with the draw-paths cheat turned on - do the paths show up properly, or does the ground hide them or what?
The draw-path cheat does only show overground paths. You can recognize the tunnel pieces from the manhole covers (or the colored arrows when traffic flows).
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: nerdly_dood on December 26, 2008, 06:44:36 PM
You can use the Water Pollution data view to see terrain underwater, which should enable you to see the little tiny manhole covers.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on December 26, 2008, 10:00:27 PM
I wouldn't switch to a temporary water mod, no big deal. Nerdly_Dood revealed a work around. This mod does work with the Urail. I made a railxrail intersection with it.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: andreharv on December 27, 2008, 12:57:25 AM
Is it possible to make the model for the blank portion of the underpass appear only in the underground view, similarly to the subway network.  Having no model at all can indeed be tricky, especially for tunnels that don't go straight across the water.  However, a visible model might make the tunnel stand out.  An underground view model would definitely help.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: gardenwong on December 27, 2008, 05:40:59 AM
WOW~~It's a very good creation for us!!
is this mean we can use udi for crossing the sea?
if yes,I hope it will be some more verison for the el-rail,railway or the monorail  :D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: WC_EEND on December 27, 2008, 06:29:08 AM
this will be a great addition to the game
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: FrankU on December 27, 2008, 08:36:13 AM
Sounds very good, but doesn't the subway-transition trick do the work already? Besides, of course, the fact that underpasses will interfere with subway networks?
Will this FLUP not intersect with subways?
How does it work anyway?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on December 27, 2008, 08:41:18 AM
The FLUPs don't involve subways at all. Those are not lots that convert commuters into subway passengers, but puzzle pieces that behave like any other network tile as well. This means you can use them for UDI, and they are also capable of bus and freight truck traffic. What Chrisim has done is basically moving the automata paths below the surface, so they behave equally to the in-game tunnels (with the exception that you cannot drag them, but have to build them piece by piece). The main disadvantage is that you can't build anything on top of those pieces, but there will be special pieces that allow you to cross other networks - for building said underpasses.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Jonathan on December 27, 2008, 10:08:44 AM
Also one other slight disadvantage of the FLUPs is that while you can have road under rail parrallell you can't have road under road parrallell (double deckerish) as the cars can jump from below to the above road, but then this limitation is the same as the NAM Ramps. But this doesn't effect you a lot, and I found the pieces much less obtrusive than the NAM Ramps and potentially much more used, when the set has been completed 3 or 4 releases along.

Jonathan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: gn_leugim on December 30, 2008, 05:27:33 AM
this is AWESOMEEEEE  &apls &apls &apls :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RippleJet on December 30, 2008, 05:55:37 AM
Is it Christmas or is it Chrisimas? These are FLUPping fabulous! &apls
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on December 30, 2008, 05:23:24 PM
I believe the NAM underground railway pieces are part of this development somewhat?

I really like the potential of this project =)

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Kitsune on December 30, 2008, 07:53:53 PM
Finally, custom underpass', I've been waiting for these for eons!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on December 31, 2008, 07:02:40 AM
now this is :o :o :o ???

cant wait for more

Joe
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: gn_leugim on January 01, 2009, 04:45:25 AM
just a question.. will we be able to make complex tunnels under normal buildings as well?  :-\
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Swamper77 on January 01, 2009, 04:55:21 AM
No, you cannot place buildings on top of the FLUPs pieces. They are like any other puzzle piece except that their paths extend below ground instead of above it. All limitations of existing puzzle pieces apply to the FLUPs as well.

-Swamper
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: gn_leugim on January 01, 2009, 02:26:09 PM
ohh sad  :( but anyway, this is awesome   :thumbsup: can't wait :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: buddybud on January 01, 2009, 11:37:09 PM
Wow...great work guys.
As for not being able to build above them. I assume if someone went about creating t21's for them you could fill in long stretches with buildings/props of appropriate wealth and zones......

Looking awesome.  &apls
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Glazert on January 02, 2009, 05:20:44 AM
Well, we may not be able to build above FLUPs, but, as has been pointed out, the FLUPs are an addition to, not a replacement for things we can already do. So for orthogonal stretches of road we could still use tunnels and have buildings above them, and then after emerging from the tunnel we could move to the FLUP for more flexible direction. It would be neat if a tunnel to FLUP transition piece could be produced, but if we have to have short switchback pieces of road emerging from a tunnel before dipping down again, that is not unlike some real-world situations.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on January 02, 2009, 06:38:38 AM
As for not being able to build above them. I assume if someone went about creating t21's for them you could fill in long stretches with buildings/props of appropriate wealth and zones......
Actually the NAM FLUPs will include a set of six "individual custom puzzle pieces" that are transparent by default.
It allows reducing the problem that you can't build anything on top of FLUPs pieces.

When you add "FLUPs custom files" (extra downloads independent from the NAM) you can fill long stretchs with buildings/props or create other underpasses like this one below SimGoober's canal:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/2b841f593a1d1e20688c919903fdb127.jpg)
This canal can't be very deep  ::)
You can see the car automata only during UDI.
Technically, these files are separate from the NAM, and consist of either T21 Exemplars or texture replacements.
I will prepare a short description how to prepare FLUPs custom files when the NAM will be published.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: carkid1998 on January 02, 2009, 08:21:49 AM
 ;D ;D ;D Coool!! love the work!!!!

Where will these additional downloads be available???
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on January 03, 2009, 01:29:06 AM
This forum is connected to an exchange... :D

And I believe you were asking more for a release date... and that... well... it'll be released when it's ready....

- Allan K
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Youcefk69 on January 04, 2009, 04:33:21 AM
Very good !

Will can we change the tunnels'type ?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Sciurus on January 04, 2009, 07:16:20 AM
It's a very good idea, but can do the same thing with tunnels in mountains?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: gn_leugim on January 04, 2009, 10:48:05 AM
This forum is connected to an exchange... :D

And I believe you were asking more for a release date... and that... well... it'll be released when it's ready....

- Allan K

as NAM, as RHW, as TRAM.. and I could keep naming them ^^
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on January 04, 2009, 02:52:53 PM
well in brief the main project is the NAM... then the subprojects are:

NWM
RHW (and subtypes)
NWM (and subtypes)
GLR + T-RAM
FLUPs
SAM

And 3RR hosts these as well:
RAM
FAR
FARR
Rural Roads


In the end... there aren't too many projects underway right now... The vast number of networks touched by NAM creators makes it look like so. $%Grinno$%

@ Chrisim: I have to agree... the canal must only be a metre deep. :D  Good progress on the FLUPs however =)

I wonder... do you have any pics of rail FLUPs? Or FLUPs of other networks?

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on January 04, 2009, 03:16:23 PM
The idea of those underpasses is great. &apls Too bad that you can't build anything above them &mmm (I hope someone will make some kind of overhanging parks or plazas)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on January 04, 2009, 07:50:18 PM
I know with custom lotting, there are custom buildings as props that already exist that can hang over bounds to do this. The thing is, these FLUPs pieces are only 1x1. In the case of buildings, that's what regular draggable tunnels can be used for. They can be dragged under buildings, but only if enough land is allowed on each end before hand.

Allan, before Chrisim made the Avenue over FLUPs piece, I had to put a Avenue over Underground Rail/Road piece to get the road traffic to move underneath, somehow FLUPs allowed compatibility of car traffic to transfer to rail, then car again to proceed. I also put a rail FLUPs piece over another rail, despite this was in the road tab ring, trains seemed to be pathed the same underneath, because they still were using the line, despite the road network underneath. Does that answer your question about other networks?

Also, you do have both the choice of American and Euro tunnel entrances.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on January 08, 2009, 06:39:01 AM
Is it possible for you to add a draggable starter piece in, just for kicks and giggles :D

and also, Buddybud has said you can use his models for tunnels :)

joe
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: buddybud on January 08, 2009, 07:41:01 AM
Yep...perfectly fine by me. I can't offer models but you're welcome to use the props that already exist. Models eaten by angry computer...argh.

Bud

ps.... have you thought of making an entrance like this. Steal the idea if it's workable. I never did get to try to path it or see if would even function efficiently.
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9205/arteryart20of5.jpg)
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9959/arteryart21do4.jpg)
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7637/arteryart22kh1.jpg)
You know come to think of it Blahdy used to have copies of these models including the underpass. I've been pming with him and  i'll see if he still has copies. I'll check for myself regardless and let you know if your interested....
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on January 08, 2009, 12:50:29 PM
those are awesome ideas, maybe your underground-but-open pieces could be use as "alternative" tops for the FLUP pieces?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on January 08, 2009, 02:45:42 PM
Want to here something funny, I have unreleased big dig gmax renderings in my documents. Anyway a 1x1 FLUPs style entrances from Buddybud's props is a good idea.

Also doing a puzzle piece of the ground highway ramp immediately to FLUPs is a great idea, especially if it can be both on and off. Although the ground highways in my cities have shoulders not the walls.

Until then, heres a quick FLUPs tease...
(http://www.picvalley.net/u/684/296956228.JPG)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: SimNation on January 08, 2009, 03:20:04 PM
I agree Buddybuds entrances should be used as well. I have been using them for ages and they are simply lovely both during the day and at night. Would add mor variety so the tunnel entrances as well.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: buddybud on January 08, 2009, 05:30:40 PM
Until then, heres a quick FLUPs tease...

Smashing!!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on January 08, 2009, 05:35:11 PM
Smashing!!  :thumbsup:
FLUPping Brilliant more like :D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on January 08, 2009, 11:47:21 PM
Why not combine FLUPS with subways, such as they're used in the Big Dig?  All it would take would be one puzzle piece for the underground road to subway transition.  Then you would have the following new capabilities:


And if a subway portion of a tunnel is about to cross a subway line, you can just switch to the underground road puzzle pieces for the crossing.  The new puzzle piece would also allow much more flexibility to Big Dig tunnels, as they could use this method to cross subway lines.

Since all of this would require the creation of just one new puzzle piece, it would be fairly simple to add it while leaving all the current capabilities intact.  That way, the current system could be used exclusively by those who want to do so.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: shadd0w09 on January 09, 2009, 12:09:50 AM
the one thing i would like to se add to flips is the big dig entrances that wouuld be good  &apls &apls :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on January 09, 2009, 12:47:17 AM
That type of thing is intended for the RHW, but not 3.0 though. We could be talking about RHW having big dig entrances, but based off RHW pieces, then turning into FLUPs. However FLUPs is two ways underneath, versus the RHW. Going underneath would need to have parallel pathing under the other networks, since the ramps entering and exiting would. This talk of that, could be a project way into the future.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on January 09, 2009, 01:31:53 AM
Unless I'm mistaken, I think that what shad0w09 was saying was that my proposal would allow that now, which is true, and that he favored that.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Jonathan on January 09, 2009, 01:49:19 AM
z, doing that would require a lot with a transit switch as you would be converting cars into subway traffic, so you'd either still get busses turning into cars at the end of the subway, or not be able to have buses down the subway.

Jonathan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on January 09, 2009, 02:21:14 AM
z, doing that would require a lot with a transit swootch as you would be converting cars into subway traffic, so you'd either still get busses turning into cars at the end of the subway, or not be able to have buses down the subway.

Well, that certainly puts a damper on things. &Thk/(

I gather that the Big Dig has the same problem.

I don't think anybody wants buses turning into cars.  So blocking buses would seem to be the alternative.  There are certainly plenty of tunnels and underpasses in the real world that are cars only, so there is a precedent.  And the lack of bus access would mean more to some people than to others.  Where bus access is needed, the current FLUPS model could be used.  I think the bus issue limits the applicability of this idea, but still leaves it useful in many places.  As for the transit switch, wouldn't it be essentially the same kind of transit switch that's used in the Big Dig?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Swamper77 on January 09, 2009, 02:32:19 AM
Z,

Yes, the Big Dig switches cars to subway and then back again at the other end, which requires two transit-enabled Lots. However, transit switches are limited to Lots only. Puzzle pieces can't do transit switches as they are merely extensions of their parent network (ie road, rail, etc.).

-Swamper
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on January 09, 2009, 04:42:36 AM
Boy, you guys sure make this challenging. &Thk/(
OK! &idea  I think I've got it.  I think it's possible to do everything I wanted to do originally.

We know we can have TE lots right next to puzzle pieces, even for underground networks.  Ebina's underground rail is one example of this; the coming version allows transits between underground rail and subway.  So here's what I propose:
                                                         S
                                                         S
                                                         S
RLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSLRRRRLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSLRR
 SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS  S  SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
                                                         S
                                                         S
                                                         S

All of this takes place underground.  Coming in from the left, you have a FLUPS underground road (the 'R').  Directly to its right, you have a TE lot (the 'L').  The properties of this TE lot are that cars and buses can enter from the south (which is left in this picture), cars can exit from the north only, and buses can exit from the east and west only.  When cars and buses exit, they're turned into subways.  In the reverse direction, subways can enter from the north, east, or west.  If they enter from the north, they're turned into cars; otherwise, they're turned into buses.  They exit through the south.

In the middle, I show what happens when a real subway line is encountered.  The subways are turned back into cars and buses, cross the subway line via a FLUPS underground road, and then get converted into subways again.  At the right end of the picture, subways get converted back to cars and buses.

So, what do you think?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: darraghf on January 09, 2009, 01:18:50 PM
Hey, Will it be possible to do this with highways, avenues or rail??(Well i know rail has been done)

Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on January 09, 2009, 01:21:24 PM
Nice ideas Z, so Puzzlepiece - TElot brushing has been fixed? awesome

Joe
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on January 10, 2009, 05:21:24 AM
Nice ideas Z, so Puzzlepiece - TElot brushing has been fixed? awesome

Please understand, this is just a proposal, and nothing has been actually built.  But unlike my previous two proposals, this one hasn't been shot down yet. ::)  And the more I think it through, the more I think it should work.  Swamper was right - puzzle pieces can't do what I want to do.  But a TE lot can, at least from everything I've seen, and it should fit in quite nicely.

Hey, Will it be possible to do this with highways, avenues or rail??(Well i know rail has been done)

I'm not sure if you're asking about FLUPS in general or my specific proposal on the previous page.  Assuming it's the latter, I'll answer this, as the answers are probably of interest to others as well.

The proposal I outlined can be used for tunnels for any form of transportation, although each form would need its own customized TE lot.  Rails would work much like road traffic, so you could preserve the division of passenger trains and freight trains.  Avenues would work like roads, and use the same type of TE lots, except you would need two TE lots for every one used in a road configuration.  However, you could get away with three subway lines instead of four for the main tunnels by merging the two middle tunnels, which both contain cars.

For highways, if all you want is a point-to-point tunnel that doesn't cross any subway lines, all you have to do is to modify the transit switch in the Big Dig end piece to work exactly as the one for roads.  This would immediately allow buses to use Big Dig tunnels.  If you wanted to cross subway lines, you would have to add the road TE lot, as shown in the picture above.  And if you wanted to use the intermediate entrances and exits, their transit switches would also have to be modified in the same way as the one for the main entrance, and you would need to use the road TE lot to allow the crossing of subway lines that would be necessary to allow both cars and buses to use these intermediate access points.  But if you do all this, you end up with a Big Dig tunnel that can go anywhere, cross arbitrary subway lines without interference, and allow both cars and buses to travel without restriction.

Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Jonathan on January 10, 2009, 05:28:22 AM
z, sorry I didn't mean to shoot your idea, just say that it wouldn't work with a puzzle piece, good idea with a lot!
I tried it but I couldn't get it to work, but that is possibly because I'm on Vista and I've noticed that SC4Tool doesn't always save what I've done. Also It probably because I don't know much about Transit Switches.
So in theory it should work, and is likely to however the game doesn't always like theory:)

Jonathan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on January 10, 2009, 05:38:47 AM
Don't worry, Jonathan, your input has been greatly appreciated here, as well as many other areas.  I was just wrong about the puzzle piece (I should have known better), and I'm grateful that you pointed this out.  It's really wonderful to have such great expertise around here, and it's far better to find out errors in the planning stage than when something's halfway built. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: buddybud on January 10, 2009, 06:09:49 AM
Hey z....

  Many things done on this site and others were at one time thought to be impossible. When someone says it can't be done, always substitute that with "we know of no way to do that". Perseverance pays off sometimes and asking questions helps all of us think of things from new angles. Quite often new ideas are developed exactly from that. Never apologize for asking questions my friend. Though sometimes things lead to naught quite often other good and useful knowledge is gained.

Just thought id add that. :thumbsup:

Bud
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: b22rian on January 10, 2009, 06:24:49 AM
Z...

I second strongly what buddybud is saying.. You have an awful lot of ability my friend...
What you have already added to this great game in such a short time, quite amazes me   &apls..
Nothing you could come up with can surprise me any more..
and so far this sounds like it could well work out..

thanks, Brian
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: McDuell on January 10, 2009, 10:10:27 AM
z,

I actually had this idea with splitting up the traffic into two lines of subway some time ago. Being just a 'normal' user though with no knowledge of the inner workings of the transit system, I tried to do the TE-ing with the SC4 Tool from simrolle and Andreas Roth. However, it didn't turn out exactly the way I wanted it. Here is what I've done.

The lot I used as base was Morifari's Hillside GLR-Subway Transition lot. I then modified the values as follows (road traffic coming from west):
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/McDuell/TE-lot%20problem/HillsideTransition.jpg)

While the lot works perfectly when I connect only the 'car' subway or the 'bus' subway line, it behaves very strangely when connecting both lines together.

This is my test city:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/McDuell/TE-lot%20problem/TestingRange-10Aug021231596538.jpg)(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/McDuell/TE-lot%20problem/TestingRange-10Aug021231596590.jpg)

Connecting only the roads does work as intended:                Connecting only the bus is also ok:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/McDuell/TE-lot%20problem/TestingRange-13Sep021231596652.jpg) (http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/McDuell/TE-lot%20problem/TestingRange-24Nov021231596749.jpg)

Connecting both options behaves strangely.
With this layout ...                                                          ... I get this result:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/McDuell/TE-lot%20problem/TestingRange-24Nov021231596793.jpg) (http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/McDuell/TE-lot%20problem/TestingRange-15Apr031231596856.jpg)

If I cut one end of the bus way, the results get even stranger.
Cutting at the end ...                                                       ... and at the beginning:
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/McDuell/TE-lot%20problem/TestingRange-12Nov041231598046.jpg) (http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/McDuell/TE-lot%20problem/TestingRange-22Sep041231597982.jpg)

I'm just showing morning traffic, because the morning and the evening traffic is in itself consistent. In the evening the working force will leave the industies by car, convert to subway and reconvert to buses to finally walk home from the station.

As I'm no expert though, this is where my wisdom ends and there may well be something very obvious that I overlooked. Anyway, I ended up not using this transition lot myself. Another reason is that there is still road access needed to reach the jobs; if I cut the street connection, even if it's not used by anyone, I will end up with no job zots.

Please excuse my kind of 'picture-spamming' in this post, but for me this makes it way easier than explaining things in pure words. I just hope that my experiences might be somewhat helpful  :)

Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Jonathan on January 10, 2009, 10:49:36 AM
z,
I tried your idea using infomation from McDuell posts and it worked with the FLUPs (I didn't bother with buses in the switch points) However it only works if there is a local ob to the residential area,

Ie it can't be:
R = Residentail, F = FLUPs, S = subway, I = industrial, C = Commercial, H=hospital (or someother job)

RRRR               IIII
RRRRFFFSSSFFFIIIC
RRRR               IIIC

it must be:

RRRR               IIII
RHRRFFFSSSFFFIIIC
RRRR               IIIC

But I don't think this is too much of a problem? as most residential areas will have some job connected by roads.

Jonathan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on January 10, 2009, 03:55:46 PM
Amazing how much was going on here this week. Sorry, that I could not reply earlier, but this week was busy.

There are a number of misunderstandings about the FLUPs, but since only the NAM members and testers have presently access to FLUPs, and the information here is still sparse, that's normal. So let me give more background information.

For functional underpasses you need two ramps and an underground connection below a crossing surface network. The following solutions exist:
a) Maxis tunnels
Tunnels are great for straight orthogonal connections. They are easier to build in mountains, but even on flat land you can build tunnels with Smoncrie's hole digging lots. Tunnels work also under bridges, but they don’t look very good when used to make underpasses.

b) Underpass Lots (e.g., by Marrast, Aithon, Jeronij)
(http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/images/beximg/Marrast_Underpasses_Day.jpg)
They look good, they are easy to use, you can use UDI, and underground traffic is not converted to subway.
However, there are disadvantages. For each combination of ramp and surface network tile, you need a different lot. Each lot is connected to an icon, and your icon list gets long. Well, you may use MMLs or DAMNs, these help.
Another problem: when you have car traffic crossing above car traffic, traffic will jump between the two. Example: when you use a Marrast underpass below ground highway, and you will query for traffic, you will observe that car traffic magically jumps from the underground to the surface section or vice versa. In real life, it would be great if my car could simply jump from a bridge onto the motorway instead of having to use a slip road.

c) Ramp Lots connected by subway (e.g., Buddybud, BigDig, ...)
They look good, are easy to use (just drag a subway), are flexible, traffic is not jumping between surface and subsurface, but you cannot use UDI. Underground traffic is converted to subway that travels with much faster velocity. Therefore it is not realistic for the traffic simulation. Everybody who uses these lots is cheating himself - in reality he has build two parking lots with subway train access (and all cars are for hire because you cannot take a car with you on a subway train). If you use this system, do it right: there are parking lots and subway train lines available in SC4.
Well, that's my opinion, but I can accept that other SC4 mayors use subways as workaround for underpasses.

d) Underpasses through terra-forming
You can build underpasses through terraforming. And they look good,
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/bc6a2384e55fb2889723998198af751b.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/bc6a2384e55fb2889723998198af751b.jpg)
are fully functional, flexible, and work in not perfectly flat area (the picture shows slight height variations, otherwise the rail track would be flat). And when you try out and get some practise they are not too difficult to build.
Look in dsrwhat316's tutorial and also for smoncrie's reply How to Build a Sloped Underpass (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3495.0)

e) Flexible Underpasses (NAM puzzle pieces)
FLUPs does not contain lots (as the whole NAM does not contain lots). Technically the puzzle pieces are very similar to NAM overpasses, i.e., the elevated road puzzle pieces. Two ramps are connected with puzzle pieces. A puzzle piece has an underground road connection (straight or curved) with paths at 10 meters depth and a surface tile, e.g., transparent, park, ped mall, rail, road, oneway, street, highway, tram-avenue or avenue. All pieces can be reached via one icon (they are in one rotation ring). The Marrast ramp model looks good, the modular system allows flexible underpasses, you can use UDI, traffic is not jumping between surface and subsurface, no subway is involved and cars and busses use the underpass with normal speed. Puzzle pieces are less convenient than draggable subway, but puzzle pieces allow subsea connections, are slope tolerant, and allow for three networks on a tile (although this is not used yet in the first version).
When using FLUPs only (and that's the idea), you have no game crashes to desktop due to a puzzle pieces hovered above a transit enabled lot.

Each of these underpass or tunnel systems has advantages and disadvantages, and everybody will use the systems that he prefers.

Here are some FLUPs example pictures from a test city. The residential and commercial zones are on the right side, the industrial zone on the left of the highway, canal and rail:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/9773af28588036490603b8ae40a12497.jpg)
The tiny manhole covers mark the underpass. It is used by cars and busses (I did not allow for pedestrians in FLUPs underpasses, too dangerous  ;) )
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/aef40fa34292f7b3664cacbd98617a95.jpg)
Here you see the routes displayed. There is no other connection to the industrial area.
You can have straight, curved and diagonal underpass sections (for some surfaces like the highway, there are only straight underpass sections).
You can also see that buildings may have underground access to the underpasses (see the green arrow left of the highway).

Here is an example from a town center of one of my older cities. Click on the thumbs to open the images.
The left thumb shows how the area looked before. Then I changed it such that only local traffic remains on the surface. And the right image shows the traffic in the new underpass:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/a41d5baa6866e3b3ecdf78e78d136e18.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/a41d5baa6866e3b3ecdf78e78d136e18.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/e1bfb93bf37b916e0f39dcea776cbd9e.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/e1bfb93bf37b916e0f39dcea776cbd9e.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/708e206b877fcfa5609a5592416e47a3.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/708e206b877fcfa5609a5592416e47a3.jpg)
(click to enlarge)

Some trivia: the tiny manhole covers in the FLUPs are ancient. They were created by the Romans:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/f63c132022aa6ed7170a90d52737a480.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/f63c132022aa6ed7170a90d52737a480.jpg)
Unfortunately, SC4 does not show these details.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on January 10, 2009, 03:56:41 PM
Buddybud, thank you for giving permission to use your models. I had a go at the "level" model and transfered it into a puzzle piece. You remember that your lot has no surface texture, and therefore, it often shows an annoying texture bug. Puzzle pieces require surface textures, so your "level" model simply disappears below the red/green/blue/black texture indicating no texture:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/38d83dbd4d74a60185dd56a27c0f362b.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/38d83dbd4d74a60185dd56a27c0f362b.jpg)
I believe that the same problem will occur for your "under"-model, but I'll try again.
The difference to the Marrast model is that he did adapt the LOD in gmax such that the S3D model is above the surface. Gmax projects the underground model onto the LOD, so the texture of the model contains a distorted image. The visual impression of depth is optical illusion. Since the LOD is above the surface, everything is displayed correctly without a texture bug for Lots and also properly for puzzle pieces. Unfortunately your models and Blahdy's Big Dig models have no adapted LODs and cannot be used for NAM puzzle pieces.

Nevertheless, we may still connect Buddybud's models as lot (not puzzle piece) with FLUPs underpasses:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/5aadf6b357407b1e4e7b8f023919312d.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/5aadf6b357407b1e4e7b8f023919312d.jpg)
(click to enlarge - here is a link to a 3 MB large GIF animation showing an UDI: Link (http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/e5c9c2b4e19cdec8bda203c31a65f59f.gif))

Just make sure that the height difference is about 10 meters. No subway is involved.
However, mixing lots with puzzle pieces remains dangerous. I had several crashs to desktop when trying out. Do not hoover a puzzle piece over a transit enabled lot!


Why not combine FLUPS with subways, such as they're used in the Big Dig?  All it would take would be one puzzle piece for the underground road to subway transition.
As Warrior explained, you would need a lot for transitions.
And as I tried to explain, using subways to connect underpasses is just a workaround. You are loosing buses, the subway speed is much to fast, you must avoid crossing normal subway lines.
My answer is, use parking lots with subways, or use tunnels or flexible underpasses without the cheating workaround of subways ;)

From your list of suggestions: diagonal underpasses will be available with FLUPs in the next NAM version. Underground crossings or tunnels that cross without intersecting were not included (although technically they are simple to create; maybe in a second version if there is demand), because I believe that underpass junctions are not the normality in most cities. (Yes, I do know towns with underground junctions, e.g. in Paris). Still, most roads are build above the surface.

You can use FLUPs together with TE-Lots, but this is not the intention. You don't need them for normal underpasses. If you do, you have a high risk of crash to desktop.


@McDuell
You have a hill in the middle. What's the purpose of your test? Simply drag a road tunnel. Underpasses are for flat areas.
(sorry, I simply don't understand)


It's a very good idea, but can do the same thing with tunnels in mountains?
FLUPs are underpasses mainly for flat area. You can use them also on hilly terrain, but then you would probably prefer tunnels.
Will can we change the tunnels'type ?
We may add different ramps, if somebody would generate suited models (with an adapted LOD above the surface).
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Kitsune on January 11, 2009, 12:54:30 AM
Actually the NAM FLUPs will include a set of six "individual custom puzzle pieces" that are transparent by default.
It allows reducing the problem that you can't build anything on top of FLUPs pieces.

When you add "FLUPs custom files" (extra downloads independent from the NAM) you can fill long stretchs with buildings/props or create other underpasses like this one below SimGoober's canal:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/2b841f593a1d1e20688c919903fdb127.jpg)
This canal can't be very deep  ::)
You can see the car automata only during UDI.
Technically, these files are separate from the NAM, and consist of either T21 Exemplars or texture replacements.
I will prepare a short description how to prepare FLUPs custom files when the NAM will be published.

Wouldnt it be possible in a future version to create a starter piece that creates the illusion that the ramp is still going further down instead of flattening out at the bottom?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: buddybud on January 11, 2009, 01:06:39 AM
Quote
Nevertheless, we may still connect Buddybud's models as lot (not puzzle piece) with FLUPs underpasses:

Well thats somewhat promising i guess...nice animation by the way. I wish i had time to pursue this. May be down the road, so to speak
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on January 11, 2009, 05:17:39 AM
First of all, Chrisim, I want to say that I think you've done a fantastic job here with FLUPS; you've certainly done a lot of things here that never occurred to a lot of people, including me, and have turned out to be extremely useful.  I'm sure that many of the applications of the current FLUPS have not been recognized yet.  My goal here was simply to add more capabilities, without disturbing the current FLUPS at all.  It's also important for me to do it responsibly, so that it is on par with the high quality of your current work.

As Warrior explained, you would need a lot for transitions.
And as I tried to explain, using subways to connect underpasses is just a workaround. You are loosing buses, the subway speed is much to fast, you must avoid crossing normal subway lines.
My answer is, use parking lots with subways, or use tunnels or flexible underpasses without the cheating workaround of subways ;)

Yes, a TE lot would be absolutely necessary.  As for the NAM prohibition against lots, I think a number of people are beginning to question whether it has outlived its usefulness.  I personally will be taking this up with the NAM team some time after the coming NAM release.  If this prohibition remains rigidly enforced, then my proposal could always be implemented as an add-on available from the LEX.  But there are real advantages to having it officially tied in with FLUPS, even by reference, as I'll mention shortly.

As for losing buses, the TE lot is specifically designed so that doesn't happen; the post above with my diagram illustrastes this.  I understand the problem McDuell had implementing this, which is definitely due to a TE lot bug.  But as leader of the RTMT team, I've had a bit of experience dealing with TE lot bugs, and I'm rather sure I know how to get around this one.  So the end result will be that the number of buses going in will be exactly equal to the number of buses coming out.

As for the fast subway speed, I thought about this when I first designed this approach; I simply haven't mentioned my solution before now.  First of all, for relatively short underpasses, the subway appproach would be inappropriate; the TE lots involved would make it much bulkier and clumsier than straight FLUPS.  The subway approach is really designed for tunnels, whether they be underground or under water.  There's a very simple way to make the overall tunnel speeds reasonable, instead of having the Sims zip along at subway speeds.  The key is simply adjusting the Transit Switch Entry Cost in the TE lots properly.  For example, they could be adjusted so that for a subway tunnel twelve squares long, the time it would take a Sim to traverse such a tunnel would be identical to a FLUPS road.  If the tunnel were a little shorter, it would take slightly longer, but you wouldn't have tunnels much shorter than that, because then you're generally back in underpass territory, where straight FLUPS is superior.  For subway tunnels on land, you may have other subway lines that need to be crossed, requiring a TE lot switch to FLUPS and back.  These switches would keep the average speed right around the road level.  And from my experience testing traffic simulators extensively, I can tell you that small differences in speed are inconsequential.

But what's the purpose of switching back and forth when you could just lay straight FLUPS tiles?  Simply that this allows you to build arbitrarily over most of your tunnel; I think the lack of this ability is the biggest drawback of FLUPS.

Going back to the speed issue, what if you have a subway tunnel going under a river that goes for dozens of squares?  The Transit Switch Entry Cost is fixed, so the result would be that the speed in the tunnel would be faster than roads, though still far slower than subways.  But is this really unrealistic?  Do real tunnels that extend for some distance have the same speed limits as city roads?  Generally not, and the longer the tunnel without obstructions, the more likely it is to have a higher speed limit.  So in this way, this solution may even be more realistic than FLUPS.

So those are my answers to your objections.  I'm just trying to add some improvements to what's already a great project.  Please let me know what you think of this.  I think you can tell from this thread that there are other people interested in my proposal, and I've gotten further PMs along those lines as well.  But if you're not interested, then as you said, "Well, that's my opinion, but I can accept that other SC4 mayors use subways as workaround for underpasses."  So in that case I would ask other people to PM me, and we can do this on the side, as a FLUPS add-on.

Once again, I mean in no way to detract from your great accomplishments here (not to mention T-RAM too!); I'd just like to help make them a little greater.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: McDuell on January 11, 2009, 06:23:17 AM
@McDuell
You have a hill in the middle. What's the purpose of your test? Simply drag a road tunnel. Underpasses are for flat areas.
(sorry, I simply don't understand)

Chrisim,

The purpose was just to show my issues about splitting up the network into two branches with TE lots as z proposed. I fully acknowledge that this is a quick and dirty setup to show the behavior of the traffic when using such a lot. As my existing lot is a hillside tunnel entrance, I built a small hill, but I was just too lazy to also build a curve in the underground. Of course the setup is kind of senseless in this special case, but to just show how the lot acts one doesn't need a plausible surrounding IMHO ;).

Hope this clears things up a bit  :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on January 11, 2009, 09:21:33 AM
First, I would like to emphasize that I forgot to mention another technique how to build underpasses. I edited my previous posting, it is:
d) Underpasses through terra-forming
You can also build underpasses through terraforming. And they look good,
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/bc6a2384e55fb2889723998198af751b.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/bc6a2384e55fb2889723998198af751b.jpg)
are fully functional, flexible, and ...
more in the original posting here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6626.msg213862#msg213862).

Z, I opened a new topic to discuss your issue of NAM and transit enabled lots. Please see here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6726.0).

I'm sure that many of the applications of the current FLUPS have not been recognized yet.  My goal here was simply to add more capabilities, without disturbing the current FLUPS at all.
And I do appreciate it. Yes, of course, new creations will also be used for other purposes than those originally intended. And I can also create additional FLUPs pieces if required. However, if you don't mind, please open another topic to discuss it. We will need this topic for FLUPs description and support soon.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: girlfromverona on January 11, 2009, 04:42:42 PM
You can also see that buildings may have underground access to the underpasses

That would come in handy for making a building appear to have underground parking. Perhaps you could make a piece that has parking signs (kinda like this: http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17876 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17876)).  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: gn_leugim on January 13, 2009, 01:53:20 PM
you are doing such great work ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: LE0 on January 14, 2009, 04:33:55 PM
When can we expect a release? &apls

answer: most likely "when its done"
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: BigSlark on January 14, 2009, 06:28:09 PM
When can we expect a release? &apls

answer: most likely "when its done"

You hit it right on the head, LE0!  :P

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: bob56 on January 14, 2009, 06:33:27 PM
This will be a commute lifesaver for my city when its released...GREAT WORK!!! &apls &apls
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on January 14, 2009, 08:23:10 PM
Hey guys, instead of wanting FLUPs, guess whats out right now already? NAM 2009! And your never going to guess whats inside it?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: skyliner on January 14, 2009, 08:38:18 PM
Awesome project. Is there any chance the FLUPs will extend to Avenues and maybe even rail?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on January 14, 2009, 08:41:29 PM
There is a avenue underpass entrance model that could be used for just that, but will have to ask Chris.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: TheChosenOne on January 15, 2009, 10:09:37 AM
Awesome project. Is there any chance the FLUPs will extend to Avenues and maybe even rail?

Um, I know this is asking for too much, but there will be FLUPs for all networks? (including RHW)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on January 15, 2009, 02:50:02 PM
Tarkus thought about doing just that, new models would need to be made, and the pieces would need to be pathed the same direction underneath.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on January 15, 2009, 03:59:07 PM
The January 2009 NAM with the FLUPs is out, therefore I added some tips for using FLUPs puzzle pieces in the first posting that is normally displayed at the top.

Is there any chance the FLUPs will extend to Avenues and maybe even rail?
Rail underpasses do already exist in the NAM. Have a look in the rail menu.
Avenue underpasses will be easy to create (if there is enough interest) because there is a wonderful ramp model by Marrast. And I do also have a ramp model for tram-avenue underpasses.
Um, I know this is asking for too much, but there will be FLUPs for all networks? (including RHW)
RHW at the surface will be easy. RHW in the underground would require somebody creating a ramp model.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Blue Lightning on January 15, 2009, 07:20:17 PM
I might be able to create a generic model for a RHW-FLUP piece.
Anyway, nice job on the FLUPs so far!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Erzei on January 18, 2009, 10:39:30 PM
The January 2009 NAM with the FLUPs is out, therefore I added some tips for using FLUPs puzzle pieces in the first posting that is normally displayed at the top.
Rail underpasses do already exist in the NAM. Have a look in the rail menu.
Avenue underpasses will be easy to create (if there is enough interest) because there is a wonderful ramp model by Marrast. And I do also have a ramp model for tram-avenue underpasses.RHW at the surface will be easy. RHW in the underground would require somebody creating a ramp model.

That would be awesome!!!  ;D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Crissa on January 18, 2009, 10:53:55 PM
Is it possible for intersections in the underground portion?

-Crissa
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Swamper77 on January 18, 2009, 10:58:08 PM
Crissa,

Currently, no intersections are allowed in the underground portion of the FLUPs. Someone will have to make the appropriate puzzle pieces to allow for intersections underground.

-Swamper
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: scottott999 on January 18, 2009, 11:29:41 PM
A couple of questions...

1) Can you run a subway under a FLUP without the traffic changing networks?

2) Can FLUPs be lotted so that they run under a building?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Swamper77 on January 19, 2009, 12:19:05 AM
1) Since the subway traffic is on a different layer, it won't interfere with traffic running underground via the FLUPs. The FLUPs are basically road puzzle pieces with their paths underground.

2) Since the FLUPs are puzzle pieces, Lots and puzzle pieces cannot occupy the same space.

-Swamper
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: SimNation on January 20, 2009, 02:19:06 PM
I have a bigger question. Can you incorporate the FLUPs with other underground passage way lots such as Blahdys Big Dig, and Buddybuds unreleased underpass's
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on January 20, 2009, 02:22:48 PM
You can use the old ones without conflicting with the new ones, and the old entrances can be (and might be) converted. for example Buddybud has given permission to use his models for entrances
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on January 20, 2009, 02:48:20 PM
Is it possible for intersections in the underground portion?
Not in this first version, but maybe in a future version, if there is enough interest.
I have a bigger question. Can you incorporate the FLUPs with other underground passage way lots such as Blahdys Big Dig, and Buddybuds unreleased underpass's
Unfortunately, it is not possible to integrate their models in the FLUPs. Both models extend below the surface and do not use a base texture. For Lots, the base is transparent. You do sometimes get a graphics bug that the underground part is in a strange violet color, but with a few mouse clicks you can correct it.
For puzzle pieces it is different. The model is implemented via a T21 exemplar. Instead of a transparent surface allowing to see the deeper part of the model, you get the green grass texture and cannot see any part of the model below the surface.
The reason why it works for Marrast's ramp model is explained in my posting #74: the adapted LOD. Unfortunately, Blahdy and Buddybud did not adapt the LOD, and unfortunately Buddybud lost his Gmax models.

Post 74 does show how you can combine Buddybud's lot with FLUPs underpasses. I haven't tried for Blahdy's big dig.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: shadd0w09 on January 22, 2009, 04:35:35 PM
love FLUP's &apls cant stop usin them need the under GHSRP pice and it would be fine  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: remanh on January 22, 2009, 08:11:32 PM
Is an on-slope FLUP entrance in the works?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: genemc777 on January 26, 2009, 10:21:34 PM
Can you mak them for 1 way roads ()what()
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on January 27, 2009, 04:26:39 PM
What genemc said. I have an idea that could save RUL time: Could the OWR have separate entrance and exit pieces so that the traffic in the lane going into the underpass merges to the one side of the existing underpass pieces, then widens back out into OWR through the exit ramp? I figure since the network speed underneath is the same.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: genemc777 on January 28, 2009, 02:29:26 PM
another question, why cant they go under the RHWs?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on January 28, 2009, 10:13:26 PM
Maybe Tarkus has plans to take care of a FLUPs for RHW, but if that is the case, will not for a very long time. Its not like every possible thing of everything can be made at once for anything.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on January 28, 2009, 10:21:04 PM
Maybe Tarkus has plans to take care of a FLUPs for RHW, but if that is the case, will not for a very long time. Its not like every possible thing of everything can be made at once for anything.

Yes, I would like to have some sort of interface between RHW and FLUPs . . . though my to-do list/wish-list of things going into the RHW is extraordinarily long.  I literally have enough stuff that it would take me a few years to add everything in.

-Alex (Tarkus)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on January 31, 2009, 09:25:32 AM
Whoa,
This is the first release of the set, so please don't ask why X and that can't go under Y.

More pieces will be added in time

Jonathan
No, it's ok to ask. You may not receive an immediate response (I don't have time to check here every day), but if nobody has the idea and asks, it will not be generated. Please ask.

love FLUP's &apls cant stop usin them need the under GHSRP pice and it would be fine  :thumbsup:
another question, why cant they go under the RHWs?
Yes, these are missing. For the next version, it shall be possible to create road underpasses under GHSRP, RHW, GLR/tram. More suggestions?

Can you mak them for 1 way roads ()what()
Yes, we can. The next version shall contain 1way and avenue ramps and 1way underground connections.

Is an on-slope FLUP entrance in the works?
Like this? (http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/5aadf6b357407b1e4e7b8f023919312d.jpg)
You can do it now. The height difference must be about 10 meters. Then, use Buddbud's TE-Lot (but be careful to avoid crashs to desktop - don't hover puzzle pieces over TE-Lots). Maybe we shall publish a variation of Smoncrie ground lifter, that lifts exactly 10 meters. It would make it easier.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Jonathan on January 31, 2009, 09:28:41 AM
Ok sorry Chris, &ops

Jonathan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on January 31, 2009, 09:32:42 AM
Quote
The height difference must be about 10 meters.

Well, isn't it 8 meters?
One question: is it possible to make FLUPS for RHW?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: toxicpiano on January 31, 2009, 10:08:44 AM
Will there be a clear straight piece for the underground rail like the FLUP?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vinlabsc3k on January 31, 2009, 08:45:16 PM
Hi Chrisim, I love ur works. &apls &apls
The FLUPs are the addiction &idea that's needed in the NAM, actually i've changed almost all my overpasses with them  ;).
I hope, like remanh,that ur progress is on the way with the on-slope FLUPs.

PS: Is in the todo list the diagonal pieces?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Swamper77 on January 31, 2009, 08:47:21 PM

Well, isn't it 8 meters?

Chrisim's FLUPs paths are at a depth of 10 meters.

-Jan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Kitsune on February 01, 2009, 08:58:29 AM
But Buddybuds pieces are for 8m, and how does the 2m height difference effect things?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: sim-al2 on February 01, 2009, 09:55:49 AM
It breaks the paths...  ...I think. ???
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on February 01, 2009, 09:59:14 AM
it would break UDI but the pathfinder still can flow through different height paths I think
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Jonathan on February 01, 2009, 10:18:15 AM
The UDI would still work, it would just jump up/down 2m (this happens if you put an elevated rail station on GLR) annoyingly it will have no effect(this is a problem with some puzzle pieces)

Jonathan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on February 01, 2009, 05:42:35 PM
Quote
One question: is it possible to make FLUPS for RHW?

We have already covered this question a number of times in both threads.
Because of that, we may want to make this clearly known top of the thread.

@Toxic piano, have you tried using the clear texture FLUPS to direct rail traffic? I have used the road under rail piece to direct trains over trains. If they work, this could save time and RUL by not needing new pieces.  Don't know if this still works, may want to try and verify.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Jonathan on February 02, 2009, 07:45:57 AM
J-dub, you used the FLUPs for Rail and it worked? Could you show a picture of it?

Jonathan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on February 02, 2009, 10:20:59 PM
Ew, I'm sorry. The only piece where train traffic can use FLUPs from the road menu is the road under rail piece, where a train can pass beneath a train. Its probably because the game really can't determine whats on top and whats underneath, but what network is actually there.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Dexist on February 08, 2009, 01:08:45 PM
hey are there coming
flups for other road like avenue, streets, sam streets, owr, highwa, rhw?

there is only for normal road now  ??? isnt it?

Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: LE0 on February 08, 2009, 04:01:32 PM
SAM streets? I can imagine brick, asphalt, cobblestone FLUPs but not dirt FLUPS $%Grinno$%

And there are only FLUps for Roads at the moment, other networks will be added later.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: carkid1998 on March 12, 2009, 11:15:22 AM

 Are there any new pieces in the march nam???
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on March 12, 2009, 02:14:38 PM
No, but new pieces are planned for the future. :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: BigSlark on March 12, 2009, 03:50:31 PM
I hate to post requests, but is there any chance FLUPs for Avenues, GLR-in-AVE, and T-RAM in the future?

Cheers,
Kevin
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on June 02, 2009, 06:27:22 PM
Wish I could afford to pay these folks to make this stuff. I am simply amazed. I wonder if this set up could be used to make my upcoming under sea city project functional?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on June 07, 2009, 05:27:27 AM
No need to pay for SC4 downloads. The work on underpasses continues, but it will take some more time. A partial preview:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/8cc152150f82f12b4621df9c9013de06.jpg)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: joelyboy911 on June 07, 2009, 05:39:05 AM
Oohh... very nice! Thats a teaser with just the right level of tease!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on June 07, 2009, 05:42:38 AM
I can't wait to use this :D Great job! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: FrankU on June 07, 2009, 07:27:45 AM
Looks like Marrast's underpasses. These will become obsolete, I guess?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on June 07, 2009, 08:42:31 AM
Looks like Marrast's underpasses. These will become obsolete, I guess?

Yes, the FLUPs will basically replace the underpass lots eventually. Those lots were "cheating" a bit anyway, since transit enabled lots are intended for stations, and not as substitution for network tiles.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on June 21, 2009, 05:37:23 PM
Please read the first posting - it is changed to reflect the June 2009 NAM updates  :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: FrankU on June 22, 2009, 07:54:17 AM
Please read the first posting - it is changed to reflect the June 2009 NAM updates  :)

Yes, I did.
Great work, all of you!  &apls  &apls  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Glazert on June 22, 2009, 03:37:30 PM
I really like the way you have used the same underpass pieces in the June 2009 NAM for road, one-way road and avenue. Very elegantly economical. It is even possible to split the two carriageways of the dual carriageway underground, as long as they are joined together at the entrance and exit ramps.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: KoV Liberty on June 22, 2009, 07:29:07 PM
Will there be underpasses with airport textures above? I could sure use those!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: pilotdaryl on June 24, 2009, 12:58:35 AM
Like this? (http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/5aadf6b357407b1e4e7b8f023919312d.jpg)
You can do it now. The height difference must be about 10 meters. Then, use Buddbud's TE-Lot (but be careful to avoid crashs to desktop - don't hover puzzle pieces over TE-Lots). Maybe we shall publish a variation of Smoncrie ground lifter, that lifts exactly 10 meters. It would make it easier.
I remember there is a new set of ground lifters and diggers that can lift or dig 8m, 10m, 12, and more specific heights.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tilarium on June 24, 2009, 02:23:13 AM
Would it be possible to make some FLUPs that look like they are going further down?  I just rebuilt one of my main cities to take advantage of the new NAM stuff and thought FLUPs would work good with the CAN-AM.  It works and all but they just look weird, because they don't go down far enough, so only a small layer of water over them.  Nothing to pressing, just more austetics then anything else.  And for the record... I LOVE the ave FLUP, looks so amazing in the central city.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: KoV Liberty on June 25, 2009, 11:42:24 AM
I remember there is a new set of ground lifters and diggers that can lift or dig 8m, 10m, 12, and more specific heights.

Yeah I think they are ShadowAssasin's on the LEX.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on June 25, 2009, 01:18:55 PM
It is possible to create further FLUPs ramps that look like they are going further down, but it would require somebody who is familiar with BAT, custom LODs and preferably also with network models.
The present ramps are masterpieces by Marrast, generated a long time ago. Unfortunately, he is not actively contributing to SC4 anymore, although I saw him here a few weeks ago  :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: TmiguelT on June 25, 2009, 02:12:35 PM
i got one simple question... gow do you connect the ONE WAY road FLUP and the AVENUE FLUP? i tried to use them but i never get a path of commute in there
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: danielra96 on June 25, 2009, 08:56:08 PM
i've noticed that when you drive a car into a FLUP it disappears for a moment then goes underground.
Does anyone know why?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on June 25, 2009, 10:50:41 PM
Like this? (http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/5aadf6b357407b1e4e7b8f023919312d.jpg)
You can do it now. The height difference must be about 10 meters. Then, use Buddbud's TE-Lot (but be careful to avoid crashs to desktop - don't hover puzzle pieces over TE-Lots). Maybe we shall publish a variation of Smoncrie ground lifter, that lifts exactly 10 meters. It would make it easier.

This is old, but there is a way to work around the 10 m temporarily.

If you look at ShadowAssassin's hole-digging lots they have the amount of raise or drop listed on them. Taking that into consideration you can use several hole-diggers or lifters in succession to make the 10 m raise. If i remember clearly the lots required are the 14 m raise, the 12 m drop, and finally the 8 m raise. The math part of this should be simple =P

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on June 26, 2009, 02:33:47 AM
i've noticed that when you drive a car into a FLUP it disappears for a moment then goes underground.
Does anyone know why?

Because Marrast's ramp models don't have custom LODs. It's just a visual glitch, though, the ramps itself work fine.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Swamper77 on June 26, 2009, 02:49:43 AM
Because Marrast's ramp models don't have custom LODs. It's just a visual glitch, though, the ramps itself work fine.

And if they did, you would see a sidewalk texture in the middle. Only Lots are capable of handling custom LODs for objects that extend underground.

-Jan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Dexist on June 26, 2009, 11:44:25 AM
hey are there any flups for under the RHW??
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Blue Lightning on June 26, 2009, 12:08:13 PM
No not yet but they are under development

Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on June 26, 2009, 05:18:43 PM
Because Marrast's ramp models don't have custom LODs. It's just a visual glitch, though, the ramps itself work fine.
Marrast's Gmax models are lost, but from the S3D files, I believe, it's clear that he used a custom LOD: a plate (a very thin cuboid) located just above the surface. All textures are projected onto this plate. When an automata drives down the ramp, it disappears below the plate.

And if they did, you would see a sidewalk texture in the middle. Only Lots are capable of handling custom LODs for objects that extend underground.
Your statement is technically correct, but it does not apply here. You do not see a sidewalk texture in the middle because the plate (custom LOD) is above the texture. Look at the S3D model in the Reader. It does not extend into the subsurface.

So, if somebody is going to create more ramps for the FLUPs, he would have to follow the same approach as Marrast: a very thin cuboid (box) just above the surface as custom LOD.

i got one simple question... how do you connect the ONE WAY road FLUP and the AVENUE FLUP? i tried to use them but i never get a path of commute in there
You connect them with the same FLUPs puzzle pieces that you use for roads. If you cannot get traffic using it, there is either an interruption (a gap, a tile without FLUPs piece - look for the tiny manhole covers) or traffic is taking other routes that are shorter. If the problems remains, please post a picture.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on June 27, 2009, 12:48:27 AM
If I knew a bit more about making network models, I could do it. The modeling part is easy, the rest, I just don't know how to do.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: joelyboy911 on June 27, 2009, 04:09:00 AM
Will there ever be rail FLUPs? I know that it is highly unrealistic to expect a train to go down that dip, but perhaps the same model, stretched out about 3 times its present length? I would like to use it for some underground/undersea things. Also the style seen in the pictures above, the equivalent of an on-slope puzzle piece would be nice addition to the FLUP repertoire, made to look matching with similar textures/design elements.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on June 27, 2009, 04:16:26 AM
Will there ever be rail FLUPs? I know that it is highly unrealistic to expect a train to go down that dip, but perhaps the same model, stretched out about 3 times its present length? I would like to use it for some underground/undersea things. Also the style seen in the pictures above, the equivalent of an on-slope puzzle piece would be nice addition to the FLUP repertoire, made to look matching with similar textures/design elements.
you could also see if you could get permission from caribou, who has a nice set of rail-underground models.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: kassarc16 on June 27, 2009, 04:57:56 AM
There's already the underground rail pieces, but I don't believe there's a blank terrain piece, mostly under-road pieces.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: joelyboy911 on June 27, 2009, 05:13:24 AM
Yes, there is, but the ramp is -I feel- ugly. the FLUP ramps of today are quite aesthetically pleasing, in my opinion.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on June 27, 2009, 06:20:33 AM
Some of us on the NAM Team are working on extending the current underground rail system, including adding FLUPS-style underwater crossings.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: joelyboy911 on June 27, 2009, 06:42:15 AM
I'm glad to hear that.  :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on June 27, 2009, 06:52:53 AM
I have to say, I like the ingeniousness of the tab rings :D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: tristan4eva on June 28, 2009, 05:27:28 AM
Could somebody make a FLUP pieces that can go underneath avenue roundabouts so i can make underpasses?

Thanks,
Tristan
 
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on June 28, 2009, 08:57:21 AM
If I knew a bit more about making network models, I could do it. The modeling part is easy, the rest, I just don't know how to do.
Actually, it does not need to be a network model. Marrast's ramps are also normal models and we have included them to the NAM via T21-exemplar. It would be fine, as long as a custom LOD is applied, as discussed above.

Could somebody make a FLUP pieces that can go underneath avenue roundabouts so i can make underpasses?
That would be really useful. You are thinking about something like this (it is not functional!!!)?
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4889/flups607.jpg)
To make it functional, we would have to agree on a standard model for the statue (or any other 2x2 tiles large model).
And it would take some time to create ...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Diggis on June 28, 2009, 12:43:49 PM
Chris, is that centre piece considered a network peice?  If so we could do a set of different T21's so users get a different one each time.

Alternativly we could make it a prop family, and that way users could add what ever props they wanted by just adding the family ID to a prop.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on June 28, 2009, 01:23:52 PM
Actually, it does not need to be a network model. Marrast's ramps are also normal models and we have included them to the NAM via T21-exemplar. It would be fine, as long as a custom LOD is applied, as discussed above.

In that case all I need to do is get the textures to match up. Will see what I can do.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: CasperVg on June 28, 2009, 02:38:19 PM
Alternatively, couldn't you have the paths for the avenue underpass run under the actual roundabout paths, and thus keep the center piece the same way as it is with the default roundabouts? The 'traffic arrows' (can't remember the actual name) would look a bit odd, but (as far as I know) the actual would be functional, while the centre piece would still be completely free-to-choose, or am I mistaken?

EDIT: Here's an image I whipped up quickly

(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp328/CasperVg/fluproundabout.jpg)

allan_kuan: Yeah, I understand the issue. However (and again, I'm not sure), I think you could have the paths not running identical at all (like in the picture, but it was done for clarity here), so they wouldn't switch. As they're underground (you wouldn't see the automata), you could probably even set the underground paths to be as sharp as you want, so they only just do not touch the borders of the inner tiles.

Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on June 28, 2009, 02:42:17 PM
I can understand that concept. However we then hit another limitation... of the game not recognizing the different path heights and therefore allowing traffic to jump between the two.

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on June 28, 2009, 02:59:51 PM
what about having a puzzle piece version (like the OWR roundabout and its tram variants.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on June 28, 2009, 04:34:38 PM
Chris, is that centre piece considered a network peice?  If so we could do a set of different T21's so users get a different one each time.
Alternativly we could make it a prop family, and that way users could add what ever props they wanted by just adding the family ID to a prop.
Right, and/or we create a standard and everybody may create addition T21's in z-override-files ...
However, I don't have much time in the coming weeks ...

Caspervg, do roundabouts exist in the subsurface in reality?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on June 28, 2009, 05:34:43 PM
Chrisim ... in answer to your question

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVBoBdX47dw
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: darraghf on July 01, 2009, 04:11:54 AM
I have just noticed that after playing around with FLUPs, that one puzzle piece is missing: the sandstone ped-mall over FLUP is not present. I knwo it is only minor, but it would be a great addition to me, if it could be made $%Grinno$%.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: lf420 on July 01, 2009, 04:35:13 AM
I'm not sure if I'm using these correctly. I have my FLUPs set up to go under the CAN-AM. I've double checked to make sure all the pieces are properly oriented and connected, but when I draw the paths they don't run under the canal. Any suggestions?

Hmm. Now that I've posted this I see that the canals aren't drawing paths either. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here.

(http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr104/littlefriend420/non-functioningFLUP.png)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on July 01, 2009, 04:41:10 AM
IIRC, the CAN-AM paths only show up in underground mode. I'd assume the same goes for the FLUPs, since the paths are actually below the ground level.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: daeley on July 01, 2009, 05:48:38 AM
IIRC, the CAN-AM paths only show up in underground mode. I'd assume the same goes for the FLUPs, since the paths are actually below the ground level.

yup, can you try forcing traffic through the FLUP? that's the easiest way to make sure it works or not.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on July 01, 2009, 01:39:54 PM
If you start constructing something (start dragging some road for example) they should show up. Well they do for me anyhow ;)

Joe
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on July 01, 2009, 02:08:01 PM
@lf420 it's normal that the FLUPs paths are not displayed. Try UDI to check the connection.

@JoeST You cannot drag from FLUPs puzzle pieces
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on July 01, 2009, 02:14:18 PM
@lf420 it's normal that the FLUPs paths are not displayed. Try UDI to check the connection.

@JoeST You cannot drag from FLUPs puzzle pieces
I was saying just drag anywhere, it seems to show all the paths ;)

Joe
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: lf420 on July 01, 2009, 03:41:17 PM
Thanks for the responses, folks. Everything is indeed working properly.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: tristan4eva on July 06, 2009, 09:52:43 AM
Actually, it does not need to be a network model. Marrast's ramps are also normal models and we have included them to the NAM via T21-exemplar. It would be fine, as long as a custom LOD is applied, as discussed above.
That would be really useful. You are thinking about something like this (it is not functional!!!)?
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4889/flups607.jpg)
To make it functional, we would have to agree on a standard model for the statue (or any other 2x2 tiles large model).
And it would take some time to create ...

That looks great
That is exactly what i want. If you are able to do it i would love to have that for RHW as well because in Cyprus in the town i live in there is a motorway separating the town and all the villages and there are at least 6 or 7 roundabouts and they have all been recently upgraded and the motorway bypasses the round about by going over it or going under it and i would love to replicate the motorway but i cant
This is what it looks like:
http://flickr.com/photos/38257737@N00/977065652 (http://flickr.com/photos/38257737@N00/977065652)

So instead of having a statue why not have a piece that shows the road underneath the roundabout like the picture
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vinlabsc3k on July 07, 2009, 01:34:17 AM
U mean this roundabout:
http://maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=it&geocode=&q=limassol,+cyprus&sll=35.173808,33.343506&sspn=0.865468,1.774292&ie=UTF8&ll=34.707209,33.060903&spn=0.0034,0.008975&t=h&z=18 (http://maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=it&geocode=&q=limassol,+cyprus&sll=35.173808,33.343506&sspn=0.865468,1.774292&ie=UTF8&ll=34.707209,33.060903&spn=0.0034,0.008975&t=h&z=18).

Don't worry :party: , the FLUP's Team is already going to make sunken puzzle pieces ()meeting(). It's only matter of time!! ()testing()
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: tristan4eva on July 07, 2009, 04:56:31 AM
that is it but it looks a bit different now because that was taken soon after construction was finished. Soon after they made it look nicer
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: strucka on July 07, 2009, 04:12:28 PM
We have something like that too, however it's bigger and at the moment it's in the phase of getting a new junction on the south where there is a sports park being constructed:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=sl&geocode=&q=ljubljana,+slovenija&sll=37.439974,-95.712891&sspn=48.709186,113.466797&ie=UTF8&ll=46.080941,14.528679&spn=0.005269,0.013851&t=k&z=17 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=sl&geocode=&q=ljubljana,+slovenija&sll=37.439974,-95.712891&sspn=48.709186,113.466797&ie=UTF8&ll=46.080941,14.528679&spn=0.005269,0.013851&t=k&z=17)

Link to sports park Stožice in Ljubljana, Slovenia: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=702030 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=702030)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: kings_niners on July 17, 2009, 04:57:02 PM
is there anything under developement for passing underneath the rhw mod?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Blue Lightning on July 17, 2009, 05:00:58 PM
Yes. I am currently working on RHW-FLUPs (URHW4, UMIS, FLUP(Rd/OWR/AVE) under RHW)

Vince
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on July 17, 2009, 05:43:02 PM
I am curious if pedestrian FLUPs are possible?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on July 19, 2009, 06:41:06 AM
Pedestrian FLUPs - you mean a subway for Sims crossing below a road or rail?
Of course, it's possible. The question is whether it is meaningful - and even if the conclusion is positive - which pieces are meaningful and can be used in many situations? You do not want to create puzzle pieces that are rarely used. One case that I considered is a pedestrian subway for the tram-avenue roundabouts.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: mike3775 on July 19, 2009, 09:29:40 AM
those would be handy when you want to give the sims a quick access route to a train station a few blocks away.  I try to place ped malls across the street from train stations and lay a path from the train station to many residential area's, giving them another way to get to a train station 2-6 blocks away from where they live and walk(and it does work)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on July 19, 2009, 12:01:45 PM
Well, I am making Pedestrian tunnels for my ARS River Walk set, and it made me wonder about it. Of course, I can turn them into subway stations, and then just connect them to make them functional, but mostly was just wondering if it would work for this application.

I can't say it would or would not be worth doing, but then things we might think are useless, some one else might find a use for.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Terring7 on July 19, 2009, 01:09:57 PM
I am curious if pedestrian FLUPs are possible?

Now this will be really useful :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on July 19, 2009, 05:07:24 PM
Well, I am making Pedestrian tunnels for my ARS River Walk set, and it made me wonder about it. Of course, I can turn them into subway stations, and then just connect them to make them functional, but mostly was just wondering if it would work for this application.
You created overhanging lots for your ARS set (nice canal system that you created - they really exist in Germany).
Therefore, you may simply plop NAM pedestrian puzzle pieces and use your overhanging lots to create the crossing canal.
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9656/pedsubars.th.jpg) (http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pedsubars.jpg)

The SFBT-NAM FLUPs Custom Tiles - Set A (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2126) is uploaded at the LEX. It contains a set of six customized pieces and allows several parks and a stream as surface above the modular NAM-FLUPs road underpasses. For most other streams and rivers, overhanging lots do exist that may be placed next to FLUPs puzzle pieces such that they mask the FLUPs puzzle pieces. FLUPs underpasses below the Canal Addon Mod (CAN-AM) are included in the Network Addon Mod (NAM).
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on July 19, 2009, 05:30:38 PM
Chrism. You might want to check my thread. The "tunnels" would be for under road, or surface rivers, etc.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on July 19, 2009, 05:59:15 PM
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh245/RebaLynnTS/My%20BATs/ARS/ARSRWTunnels001.jpg)
The picture from your thread tells more than thousand words ...
Yes, this would be a good ramp for ped-FLUPs, if rendered with a custom LOD.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on July 19, 2009, 06:51:19 PM
They are rendered with LODs that are nearly flat at ground level (.21 meters). If I understand previous posts correctly, this should work, yes?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Diggis on July 20, 2009, 05:53:18 AM
That is a massive ramp!  What is the height under the road? 
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on July 20, 2009, 09:27:43 AM
Over all it is 8 meters deep, and the ceiling is 3 meters deep.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Korot on July 20, 2009, 11:20:53 AM
That's a hight a sim should be able to descend in 48 meters, though I suggest adding railing in the center, to help the elderly, trying to pass under the road, or street in this case.

Regards,
Korot
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on July 20, 2009, 12:04:20 PM
That's a hight a sim should be able to descend in 48 meters, though I suggest adding railing in the center, to help the elderly, trying to pass under the road, or street in this case.

Regards,
Korot

I can do that. I was going to add the wooden walk path down the center any way so it is not so plain.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on July 20, 2009, 12:25:39 PM
It would be nice to have smaller ped-ramps too (1x1 and maybe 1x2 rightangle'ed ramps)

Joe
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on July 20, 2009, 12:54:27 PM
a 1x1 ramp would be a 22.5 degree grade. that is pretty steep for wheel chairs and electric carts, though it could be done with a moving side walk, so I will consider adding that to my list :)

A 1x2 right angle it a great idea though, as well as a 1x3 right angle, for that matter.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: MandelSoft on July 23, 2009, 11:23:11 AM
I came across this underpass at the NAM: Development topic, page 12:

(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4112/c1sv6.jpg)

Maybe a good addition to the FLUPs?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: shanghai kid on July 23, 2009, 12:33:56 PM
wow, i would love to have that in my cities working with road, grl and rail.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on July 24, 2009, 06:52:58 AM
the 1x1 ramp I meant for stairs, not ramp ;)

Joe
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: RebaLynnTS on July 24, 2009, 08:52:48 AM
the 1x1 ramp I meant for stairs, not ramp ;)

Joe

I did intend to do that as well, any way :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: LOPAN on August 10, 2009, 03:31:31 PM
I can't make this flup work...

I lay two tunnels, an entrance and an exit, just one tile away, and then I connect them with the correct piece, that one with none on it except  the green grass, but no cars ever go in.

What's wrong? 
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on August 10, 2009, 04:06:47 PM
May we have a picture, please?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: LOPAN on August 10, 2009, 05:48:18 PM
May we have a picture, please?

there ya go friend

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4923/flup2.jpg)

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/377/flup1.jpg)

The query tool shows none traffic in flups. The cars go the adjacent tile, they disappear but they don't reappaer at the other side.

I connected them with a straight puzzle with transparent texture.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: allan_kuan1992 on August 10, 2009, 09:49:24 PM
Do you have any simulator with park and ride enabled? There are no people paths in the tunnels, so if that mod is installed and there's no parking lot on the jobs side then people won't get through.

- Allan Kuan
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: LOPAN on August 10, 2009, 11:17:07 PM
Do you have any simulator with park and ride enabled? There are no people paths in the tunnels, so if that mod is installed and there's no parking lot on the jobs side then people won't get through.

- Allan Kuan

I don't remember installing any park and hide... which mods do this job? The transit and major mods I've installed are:

NAM
CAM
SAM
Road to Mass Transit v3.51
Side Street Mod
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Diggis on August 11, 2009, 03:05:38 AM
Which of the NAM traffic simulators did you install when you installed it?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on August 11, 2009, 03:55:46 AM
I don't remember installing any park and hide...

Maybe that's why that option never works.  (Just kidding!)

To elaborate on Diggis' question:  In your Network Addon Mod folder, you should probably have a file that begins "NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_".  If such a file exists, what is its full name?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: LOPAN on August 11, 2009, 02:39:15 PM
I installed everything with standard option.

The file name is NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_C_Standard.dat
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on August 11, 2009, 03:24:27 PM
LOPAN, what happens when you drive a "You Drive It"-Car through? If it passes, the problem is not related to the FLUPs. If not, I would have no clue why not in your case. It should.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: LOPAN on August 11, 2009, 04:20:28 PM
LOPAN, what happens when you drive a "You Drive It"-Car through? If it passes, the problem is not related to the FLUPs. If not, I would have no clue why not in your case. It should.

Yes Chrisim, I was going to try that, but everytime I click the You-Drive stuff, some guy says that this mission isn't available anymore... I don't know why.  :(

UPDATE: For some odd reason my game is set to LEFT HAND, like in UK... I don't know why, I always install everything with RIGHT HAND, I think the problem is because the FLUP is right handed and some other pieces are left handed... how do I know which mod is causing some parts to be in LEFT HAND?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on August 11, 2009, 04:49:26 PM
If you have a UK version of the game, you have to install the LHD version of the NAM Controller, otherwise the puzzle pieces will not work correctly.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: LOPAN on August 12, 2009, 07:46:54 PM
If you have a UK version of the game, you have to install the LHD version of the NAM Controller, otherwise the puzzle pieces will not work correctly.

That was exactly it... I got myself the UK version! Now it works fine.

Thanks everybody  ()stsfd()
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: SC4BOY on August 18, 2009, 01:43:15 AM
id-host.de doesn't seem too reliable for having the pic's available.. about 2/3 of the pic's in this thread as of the time of this posting.

The reason I'm browsing is getting the following "string" to work
Surface "heavy" Rail to Underground transition (ramp looking like and labeled "railway tunnel entrance", *, next is a "underground to subway under plaza connector" followed by subway tube to next station, etc.. yet it seems to not be able to carry traffic.  When it failed I added next is a "underground rail under plaza" in place of * above. Also no go.  Its hard to guess what I'm doing wrong since "drawpaths" doesn't work on the underground rails pieces.. I'll come back when I can see pictures.. its possible there are some clues there.

Edit: Hmm.. apparently the "subway-ugr" won't connect to the "entrance piece".. Further if you place it "entrance", "ugr under paved", subway.. the subway won't place (touching TE'd lot?).. if you place it "entrance" "subway-tgr" THEN put the "ugr under paved".. with the path the correct orientation in between it will place and it will work.. So I solved that.. don't know if there is some "always true" rules for the placement of these.. its important since you can't path-verify except by running the simulator..
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on August 19, 2009, 11:17:26 AM
Unfortunatley, the picture hoster ld-host.de had some problems during the summer holidays of their IT administrator, but it should be stable again. I am using it more and more because Imageshack has been quite unreliable for quite a long time.

@SC4BOY sorry, I do not understand what your question is. Please ask again differently
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: SC4BOY on August 20, 2009, 01:12:38 PM
Would it be possible to make some FLUPs that look like they are going further down?  I just rebuilt one of my main cities to take advantage of the new NAM stuff and thought FLUPs would work good with the CAN-AM.  It works and all but they just look weird, because they don't go down far enough, so only a small layer of water over them.  Nothing to pressing, just more austetics then anything else.  And for the record... I LOVE the ave FLUP, looks so amazing in the central city.

The problem with this is it is equally unrealistic.. who wants cars dropping off a ledge? lol
Properly you should put the ramp SPACED BACK further from the canal, that way one could easily imagine that as it passes those extra 2 or 3 tiles, the road drops further. Personally I'm against haveing steep access/egress in these tiles as they don't reflect a realistic situation and they just add more graphics models to have to tab/flip through

wow, i would love to have that in my cities working with road, grl and rail.

Those photos are of working pieces (the GLR-in-avenue going under the rail underpass made with NAM puzzle pieces) so yes it could be put in your cities working.. :) .. and you don't need FLUPs

Please ask again differently

OK, well as I mentioned I did get it to work, but it was a LOT of TRIAL AND ERROR.. and it wasn't a matter of not reading the material available. Here's an example of my issue:

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9871/flups.jpg)

In this image, my editing should make it clear what pieces I have used, etc. Basically this is a small "sandbox" of some R, C, and I set up to force the R's to use the rail/subway connections in order to find work. I noted several things while trying to make it work, and I'm sure there are other things I still haven't figured out.

1. In A and B, there is simply a "rail to underground" piece followed by a "underground to subway" piece. In A the placing "ghost" arrow points one way (to the track piece). In B it points crosswise to this. Clearly only the "toward" works.. which is especially a problem because if you are around a road, the piece does not naturally align this way. Even after "properly" placing them they would not work until I dragged the subway THROUGH the peice.. as I recall the normal subway connections (stations, etc), only dragging to touch is required.

2. In C an "underground rail 4-way connector under plaza" piece is used between the subway-UGR and the UGR entrance. This piece seems to not function at all in this placement. I tried all I could think of to make it work. If anyone has suggestions, the sandbox is still set up for me, so I'll be happy to try them.

3. In D there is a "UGR under plaza" piece between the UGR-subway and the UGR entrance. It also required that I drag the subway track THROUGH the UGR-subway piece. If I delete this "overdrag" piece, even after it is working, it will STOP working.

So much for the specifics of my test case.

My issue that all this playing around brings out follows. I think there need to be added to the lots "pointer props" and expanded explainations to guide users to proper placement to make the pieces work and to "coach" the user in proper placement and alignment of the pieces.

Perhaps this is already planned, but I consider this whole "FLUP's" thing to sort of be in beta release.. I don't think they are up to the par of the NAM product. The fact that it doesn't have  all the pieces that people want is NOT the problem.. this always happens.. ;)

What I mean is I think the basics of usage guides, tutorials, implementation, etc aren't really "up to par". Trust me this isn't a "complaint" but simply points  to the current state of the product.. by all means all interested parties appreciate being able to get hold of these new gadgets and play with them, but many average users are going to have problems with these (and for better or worse I consider myself to be much above the average user in terms of understanding the products, knowing lots of tips and tools usage, knowing where to generally look for help, knowing a lot of the games little "quirks", etc)

Thanks to all for their continued work and explorations in SC4
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on August 20, 2009, 02:14:46 PM
SC4BOY, your picture does not show FLUPs pieces.
I believe that you are using rail ramps (from NAM's underground rail pieces) and lots that convert underground rail to subway?
The NAM underground rail pieces exist for several years, and strictly speaking they are not FLUPs. The FLUPs have road, avenue or oneway ramps. However, I have no problem to discuss them, because technically the FLUPs are similar to the NAM underground rail pieces.

NAM underground rail pieces are not intended to be used in the way you do. The idea is to have two ramps (the rail track moves below the surface)
that are connected by underground rail puzzle pieces.

I do not know the Lots that you use to convert underground rail traffic to subway. Lots are not included in the NAM. You may want to tell the lot creator about your suggestions.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on August 20, 2009, 02:34:06 PM
First of all, I want to say that I agree with everything that Chrisim says here.

As for why SC4BOY's lots have problems, this is undoubtedly due to the flaky nature of subway transit switches.  The obvious way of making them often doesn't work.  When RTMT V3.60 comes out in the near future, you can see how subway transit switches are used in a variety of lots in a way that works.

There is a further problem if your subway switch points are asymmetrical - whether or not they work may depend on the alignment of the pieces (north-south, or east-west), even though this may not seem to make any sense.  The easiest solution here is to make sure that your switches are symmetrical.

As Chrisim points out, this is not really FLUPS, so further discussions should probably be moved elsewhere.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: CaptCity on August 20, 2009, 04:10:00 PM
I know this doesn't seem to be a FLUP issue, but I thought I would throw my two cents in... I thought maybe some of the pieces in question could be the ones provided by the ESURE beta. Out of curiousity I tried a similar setup to SC4BOY and saw some of the same issues he raised. I did manage to get this...

(http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq206/CaptCity/UndrGrndRail.jpg)

Now the pieces I used, from right to left were the following...

1. the underground rail ramp piece
2. a regular underground rail straight piece
3. the four-way underground rail ESURE piece
4. a regular underground straight piece
5. an underground rail-to-subway transition piece (also ESURE)

The underground four-way piece didn't seem to work unless there was a regular piece next to the sides.

I know this brings up the ESURE pieces that I know are in beta, but I thought I would bring it up as a possible explanation. And I could very well be mistaken as it was just a quick test...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: SC4BOY on August 20, 2009, 08:32:52 PM
I am sure there are why's and wherefore's to the whole issue, I just don't know what they are.. :)  As to this not being FLUP's, I apologize.. Since I put the whole thing in with the new NAM revision, I clearly confused them.. Its probably a topic worthy of discussion... I suggest a moderator with power to do so clip the last few messages out and move them to their own thread in order to avoid a "topic highjack" as that certainly was not what was intended.. thanks all.. looks like a fun investigation topic.. ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on August 21, 2009, 01:05:48 AM
Just a quick post to hopefully clarify this whole issue...

The underground four-way piece didn't seem to work unless there was a regular piece next to the sides.

Yes, this is exactly true; the general rule is that you can't put any two TE lots right next to each other.  This is one of the reasons I'm converting the FURLs to puzzle pieces before releasing ESURE on the LEX.

Any further questions about ESURE should go in the ESURE thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7397.0).

And now back to our regular programming...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: sithlrd98 on August 21, 2009, 10:11:47 AM
Just roaming through here and saw your post about ESURE. Never heard of this and the link you posted is not complete.

Jayson
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on August 21, 2009, 02:23:42 PM
Sorry about that - I don't know how that happened.  Anyway, it's fixed now.  ESURE needs a few fixes, though, so I wouldn't recommend using it on a production city until it's released on the LEX, which shouldn't be too long from now.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: acidoverride on September 15, 2009, 01:39:45 PM
This is looking damn nice and handy!
Where can I download these tools?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on September 15, 2009, 02:39:28 PM
FLUPS is a standard part of the NAM.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: dragonshardz on September 16, 2009, 01:06:45 AM
A FLUP-under-RHW (MIS, 2, 4, 6, 6C, 8, and 10) would be handy, as would a RHW FLUP ramp. One-way FLUP ramps would be nice as well. MHW could be useful as well...

As for ESURE, I'm going to check that out, it looks interesting.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on September 16, 2009, 05:55:20 AM
dragonshardz, there are already one way FLUP ramps ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: joelyboy911 on September 16, 2009, 06:01:47 AM
I've seen people's pictures with an on-slope tunnel entrance, which I guess converts to a subway. I was wondering if a similar type thing for FLUPs could be an option? It would certainly come in handy.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Shadow Assassin on September 16, 2009, 06:02:55 AM
dragonshardz, there are already one way FLUP ramps ;)

There aren't any RHW FLUPs yet. That was what he was hoping for. :P

I've seen people's pictures with an on-slope tunnel entrance, which I guess converts to a subway. I was wondering if a similar type thing for FLUPs could be an option? It would certainly come in handy.

It certainly would. Buddybud's on-slope pieces actually do work with FLUPs... they have to be plopped at a height of 10m however.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: juleskeith on September 16, 2009, 12:11:52 PM
Is it possible to use FLUPs for residential buildings? As far as I can see they're roads buried under ped tiles so do they behave in the same manner?

I've tried experimenting and maybe it's me not understanding the game but the results seem rather random.
The layout
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2604/3925855779_98821feefc.jpg)

The initial result - Some buildings use the FLUP road system but some don't, especially the bottom left Tai-Pan (I think) building
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2446/3925856857_a39dcbc89d.jpg)

Part of the FLUP road was demolished and a small normal road section added. That bottom left building suddenly had commuters.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3489/3926641902_b9cd37bffb.jpg)

Is this just the oddities of Simcity or do some building not recognise FLUPs as roads?

Thanks for your help and for the never ending work of the NAM team. Do you guys ever sleep!?


Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: dragonshardz on September 16, 2009, 11:24:52 PM
dragonshardz, there are already one way FLUP ramps ;)

OK then. Must've missed 'em while looking through the tab ring.

juleskeith, it looks like that lower-left building might be TE'd. Try dragging road into the lot tile with a road texture. If it is TE'd, that may have something to do with it.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: juleskeith on September 17, 2009, 09:03:30 AM
dragonshardz thanks for the advice I will give it ago and let you know.

Does anyone know if FLUPs act the same way normal roads do albeit it with a different tile texture?
If I create a FLUP T or X junction will there be underground traffic lights?

Thanks for all of your help
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: dragonshardz on September 17, 2009, 09:48:55 AM
FLUPs ae puzzle pieces with roads paths that go underground. So yes, they do act like normal roads do. I assume that there are stop paths on the intersection pieces, but I don't think there are undeground traffic lights that are visible to anyone but the Sims driving underground. ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on September 17, 2009, 09:59:29 AM
Well, even the surface traffic lights are merely eye-candy - for the simulator, only the stop paths count. ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: juleskeith on September 17, 2009, 11:06:08 PM
Thanks for the advice.

I was kind of hoping that Sims had to drive in total darkness in the FLUP tunnel and play a big game of blind chicken at intersections!

Once again excellent work on FLUPs, my favourite new toy to play with at the moment
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: FrankU on September 21, 2009, 08:57:46 AM
I was kind of hoping that Sims had to drive in total darkness in the FLUP tunnel and play a big game of blind chicken at intersections!

No! I am sure the NAM team will never allow our beloved Sims to drive in such dangerous circumstances!  ;D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on October 10, 2009, 08:43:02 AM
It is time for a teaser for the next version ...
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7995/flups101r.jpg) (http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6779/flups101.jpg)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on October 10, 2009, 10:08:08 AM
Sweet! If possible, relocate the manholes to the "triangles" with the pavement, though. ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: bob56 on October 10, 2009, 10:46:25 AM
ooh! GLR underpasses. those will surely be a great addition!

Sweet! If possible, relocate the manholes to the "triangles" with the pavement, though. ;)

I'd have to agree.

can't wait!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on October 10, 2009, 01:01:02 PM
Sweet! If possible, relocate the manholes to the "triangles" with the pavement, though. ;)
(http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8162/flups103a.jpg)
There are five different underpasses as shown in the top part of the picture, two straight and three diagonal underpasses. Without a manhole cover in the middle of the road, it would not be possible to recognize what had been plopped. The only thing I can do is to darken the manhole cover for the dark road.

(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9017/flups101d.jpg)
Better?

On my way to work, there are several dozens of manhole covers somewhere on the road. The bumps are annoying for me as car driver ... and even more annoying for the poor bikers, but it is a very realistic feature.

Just in case that somebody will ask, why there is no diagonal underpass parallel below the diagonal road: it is not created because traffic would jump between surface and subsurface.
And if somebody will ask, why there is no diagonal ramp: nobody created one. If you are a skilled BATter and you are interested, please go for it  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on October 10, 2009, 02:29:56 PM
Well, there's nothing wrong with manhole covers on a road (actually, every road has them), but those square ones look a bit out of place, and yes, they were a bit too light as well. I wonder if anyone could BAT one of the typical German ones (http://www.ib-schoenefeld.de/start01/start02/home/kanalsanierung/kanaldeckelrundklein.jpg) that is completely flat?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: smoncrie on October 10, 2009, 04:12:56 PM
What about using ghosted manholes, like the ghosted orientation arrows in the elevated 1-way roads?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JoeST on October 10, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
what about 'aligned' man holes, that are orthogonal to the direction of the road's direction rather than the tiles?

Its looking awesome btw :)

Joe
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: dragonshardz on October 10, 2009, 04:22:21 PM
Just changing the texture of the manholes makes them look flatter. I think that they should be made round(er) at least, square manholes are rather unrealistic.

You could do away with the manhole covers completely, and just use ghosted orientation arrows that show when you mouse over them when in inquiry mode (the mode where you can click on a house and get more details about traffic, health, etc...I forget what it's proper name is.)

Round manholes would make aligning the manhole covers unnecessary.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on October 10, 2009, 07:04:50 PM
The FLUPs have been available for a long time, and I always wondered why nobody asked for more background information on the ventilation louvre. It is a ventilation louvre, not a drainage system like manhole covers are. The FLUPs ventilation louvre is actually ancient Roman (and this is no joke  $%Grinno$%):
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/f63c132022aa6ed7170a90d52737a480.jpg)
The SPQR was lost when reducing the photo to 8x16 dots shown here: (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2199/spqr.jpg)

I had used this manhole cover because I could not find any ventilation louvre that looked good when reduced in size. There are many types of manhole covers in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhole_cover (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhole_cover). I had tried out several versions, and this one was the best. The advantage of this particular shape is that it is symmetric in both directions. The hole direction (the black lines) gives the direction in which underground traffic is leaving the tile, and the neighboring tile will perfectly match (if it was plopped correctly).

Andreas, I did also create the typical German version, but it did not look good when reduced to 16x16 dots. It does look very different from a ventilation louvre and it does not permit to recognize the direction of underground traffic flow.

Dragonshardz, I tried several round shapes, and all (in such a small size) had the disadvantage that you cannot recognize the direction of underground traffic flow.

What about using ghosted manholes, like the ghosted orientation arrows in the elevated 1-way roads?
I am considering adding ghosted orientations as additional support, but the problem with ghosted orientations is that you can see only one tile at a time. The advantage of the ventilation louvre is that you get the complete overview of all tiles that were plopped to create the underpass. It allows to verify whether a possibly complex underpass is correct and will function.

what about 'aligned' man holes, that are orthogonal to the direction of the road's direction rather than the tiles?
The idea is that they are orthogonal to the underground road ...

Round manholes would make aligning the manhole covers unnecessary.
They do align automatically when they are set correctly. If they do not align, something is wrong and the underpass won't work. So, the alignment is a visual quality control whether they are plopped correctly.

Any questions on the new stuff that I had presented this morning?
(I will be travelling for a week and have no clue whether I will have internet access. Please be patient)

Again - why is there no diagonal ramp: nobody created one. If you are a skilled BATter and you are interested, please go for it  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on October 10, 2009, 07:31:54 PM
Well, I don't mind the square manholes in general (and that little in-joke is nice), but they really don't look good directly on the road. That's why I was wondering if they could be relocated for this particular item. :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: kassarc16 on October 11, 2009, 12:32:46 AM
The GLR underpass looks great! Now I can finally tunnel under water and still be able to UDI through!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: zakuten on October 11, 2009, 01:03:40 AM
An easy one to suggest to add here; GHSR, if possible.

Edit: To clarify; GHSR over road/OWR/the etc.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vinlabsc3k on October 11, 2009, 03:01:22 AM
WoW Chrisim, i'm going to request a GLR FLUP and u anticipate me!! :o

Oh, i've a request: Can u make even a rail FLUP!! &ops I know there r Underground Rail, but I don't use it often. :'(

Ah, have u make the on-slope entrance/exit?  :-[
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on October 11, 2009, 05:24:50 PM
The teaser looks really great, can't wait to have more of these puzzles to use!

While I'm here, could someone quickly explain how I can make this work:

(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w73/purepics/helpflups.jpg)

Which flups pieces can I use to make rail go over an Avenure?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on October 11, 2009, 05:59:33 PM
...

(http://prikachi.com/files/1104155s.jpg)

This one :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on October 12, 2009, 05:16:49 AM
Quote from: io_bg
This one :)

:) The smilie face piece? So no rail over avenue?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Diggis on October 12, 2009, 05:41:59 AM
:) The smilie face piece? So no rail over avenue?

You use 2 rail over road pieces instead.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on October 12, 2009, 06:13:00 AM
All underground FLUP pieces have been designed in a way that you can use them either for road, oneway road and avenue underpasses.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on October 12, 2009, 06:20:44 AM
Brilliant, thanks guys! And using a road doesn't reduce the capacity of the two lane avenue?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: daeley on October 12, 2009, 08:12:41 AM
Brilliant, thanks guys! And using a road doesn't reduce the capacity of the two lane avenue?

well it does, but ehm... it's ehm... working as intended since avenue speed limits are lower in underground tunnels. (and if you don't buy that, I'll sell you something else...)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: heitomat on October 12, 2009, 08:57:40 AM
How about using the one-way FLUPs? Haven't tried it myself, but I reckon the placement arrow indicate the traffic direction..?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: FrankU on October 12, 2009, 09:33:00 AM
I have this funny problem...
The NAM works fine, and as far as I can see my plopped FLUP pieces also work fine.
Still I can not always find the appropriate FLUP file in my Tab-ring. It looks as if suddenly some files are missing. Lately I wanted to make the exact underpass that is shown here by puresimcity. I looked for the straight road under rail, because I knew there was no Avenue or OWR under rail. But all I found was the underpass T-intersection, the curve and the crossroad. So I used the T-intersection with the T turned outsides. It works, nobody sees it, but it puzzles me and it is not beautiful.
Is this a problem that has been seen before? It is quite weird. I never had an incomplete Tab-ring before.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on October 12, 2009, 10:18:53 AM
;D So my avenue will turn into a road and then back into an avenue? ehm...

heitomat, I don't think there is a one-way flups with rail on top, if there was I would have used that instead.

Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on October 12, 2009, 12:30:06 PM
Brilliant, thanks guys! And using a road doesn't reduce the capacity of the two lane avenue?

Well, if you have Simulator A, B or Z installed with your NAM installation, it will have the same capacity.  Those simulators equalize Road, One-Way Road and Avenue capacities, so it'll have no effect then.

With "Standard", "Better Pathfinding" and "Perfect Pathfinding" (Simulators C, D and E), you're looking at a 60% decrease in capacity.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Rady on October 12, 2009, 12:55:31 PM
Sweet! Those GLR FLUPs are simply great!  &apls &apls
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on October 12, 2009, 01:09:50 PM
@FrankU: Some items can only be selected by rotating a puzzle piece. The FLUP rotation ring is quite full due to the large number of slightly different pieces that are necessary, that's why some of them won't show up with simple tabbing.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on October 12, 2009, 01:49:41 PM
@Tarkus: Simulator Z is the one I'm using, so I'll use the road flup. Thanks all :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: heitomat on October 13, 2009, 05:03:12 AM
@puresimcity: OK, I see.. Maybe that's a piece that should have been made, then?

Just got an urge to experiment a little with the FLUPs.  ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on October 13, 2009, 06:12:17 AM
@heitomat: If you know how to experiment with Flups, a one-way road with rail on top would serve 2 purposes, especially for those who don't use Simulator A, B or Z. Appreciate the help.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: heitomat on October 16, 2009, 07:11:26 AM
@puresimcity: I'm sorry for my choice of words.. Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge to develop new pieces for the FLUPs. By saying "experiment" I was simply thinking of playing around with the FLUPs in-game; get to know their function, the puzzle cycle, and - of course - what pieces were missing and how to work around things despite of this.

I'm sorry if you (or anyone else) got your hopes up because of this.  &mmm

Anyway, I certainly hope that someone with the needed developing skills would take a look into it. Still, I refer to Andreas in that the pieces are designed to work together regardless of the type of road. This also reduces the number of pieces to include in the cycle ring. Thus said, I really don't feel the need for a OW-under-rail piece (If the ave-road-ave transition had been visible, I probably would have felt otherwise  ;)).
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on October 17, 2009, 02:35:06 PM
a one-way road with rail on top
does exist since the June 2009 version of the NAM:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/88e59ee621613cb7280e4dd7aec6808e.jpg)
click to increase image size (http://www.ld-host.de/show/88e59ee621613cb7280e4dd7aec6808e.jpg)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: heitomat on October 19, 2009, 01:46:50 AM
does exist since the June 2009 version of the NAM:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/88e59ee621613cb7280e4dd7aec6808e.jpg)
click to increase image size (http://www.ld-host.de/show/88e59ee621613cb7280e4dd7aec6808e.jpg)
Well, how about that..?  :D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jpj_starfleet on October 28, 2009, 06:00:43 PM
I have a problem with the curved FLUP's under road or one-way road, everytime I plop it the game crashes, I even tried ploping it by itself in an epmty region and it still crashed the game, every other piece works including cured FLUP's under grass or sidewalk tiles, anybody know what the problem is? I am using the Z simulator.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on October 30, 2009, 04:49:01 PM
I've used Flups a lot recently and it hasn't caused a crash, but out of curiousity I tried the piece that jpj_starfleet mentions and I got a CTD. Went back and tried the same tile again in a blank map and CTD. Here is the only piece that I've found causes it:

(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w73/purepics/crashflups.jpg)

Any others jpj_starfleet?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on October 31, 2009, 08:07:50 PM
I had the same crash two months ago and I fixed it. It shall be uploaded with the next NAM version. Sorry for the inconvenience.

The positive news for me is that the FLUPs pieces are really used. This bug had been around for almost a year and there was never a bug report or complain ...  ::)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on November 01, 2009, 04:31:18 AM
Thanks Chrisim! FLUPs is such a great idea, hope we get more goodies to experiment with ;D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: zakuten on November 01, 2009, 12:37:23 PM
Sorry to be a bother, but will the next version be able to have underpasses for road to pass below the GHSR? Since that doesn't allow grade crossings and all...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on November 01, 2009, 01:36:58 PM
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2730/flups109.th.jpg) (http://img88.imageshack.us/i/flups109.jpg/)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: zakuten on November 01, 2009, 03:04:55 PM
Well. There's my answer. Beautiful.  &apls
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on November 01, 2009, 04:53:16 PM
Yep, beautiful &apls
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: MandelSoft on November 02, 2009, 08:23:54 AM
I could really use that piece. Wonderful work, Chrisim
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: CameronB on November 03, 2009, 12:01:33 PM
Okay...  I hate asking for help, because I'm an RTFM type of person... but sometimes I simply have to admit defeat...

Maybe I'm going crazy here, but am I missing a puzzle piece?

Here's what I have:  A straight piece of road on the surface.  I want to place, underneath it, a section of underground avenue.

I can find the Ramps leading to the underground avenue...  What I cannot find is the puzzle piece to place an underground avenue section...  at least, not underneath a surface road... :/

My two avenue ramps don't connect...  I've tested with a Free Drive mission, which simply ends when I hit the underpass border.

What am I overlooking?
(http://"C:\Documents and Settings\Cameron\Desktop\undergravenue.bmp")
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on November 03, 2009, 12:08:52 PM
You should also read this thread, as it contains more information how to use the FLUPs. :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: carkid1998 on November 03, 2009, 12:25:43 PM
You need to place 2 standard FLUPs pieces side by side to connect the avenue ramps ;)

Ryan :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jpj_starfleet on November 06, 2009, 11:57:48 AM
To answer puresimcity's question a couple of posts back no, there are no other pieces that cause CTD, fortunately the piece in question has not been needed (as yet) in my transit networks, the FLUP's work beautifuly! I have an actual harbor tunnel connecting the two halfs of my city that works! U-Drive it and everything!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: KoV Liberty on November 06, 2009, 04:27:37 PM
Same here! I hate having those eye-sore maxis bridges, although some are good when needed.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on November 07, 2009, 09:14:43 AM
I have an actual harbor tunnel connecting the two halfs of my city that works! U-Drive it and everything!
Why don't you show a picture of it?  :thumbsup:
It is always motivating for the development of further pieces when you can see pictures that show how existing pieces are used. There is a Show us your Tunnel (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=58.0)s topic. It has not been used for a year - so you can also use it for flexible underpasses ...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jpj_starfleet on November 08, 2009, 10:06:47 AM
Per your suggestion Chrisim I have revived the "show us your tunnel's" hopefully it won't be another year until someone posts a reply!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on November 08, 2009, 11:29:25 AM
This is the O'Shaughnessy Tunnel under New Dublin Harbor, game generated & U-Drive it traffic works perfectly under water!!
(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/42251/2501380270053958490S600x600Q85.jpg)

jpj_starfleet can you explain how you got that to work under water? What pieces/transit networks did you use? I want that in my cities ;D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jpj_starfleet on November 08, 2009, 12:57:09 PM
Before I created the city I mapped out on a practice region what I wanted, trial and error till I found out what to do, I used the white tiles to the edge of the water then the transparent tiles under water, the trick is to create a gradual slope from the bottom of the bay/river to just under the water line were the tunnel reaches the land, you can have a small drop off but if it is to much then U-Drive vehicles disappear when they hit the bottom! I also elevated the land a bit on the bottom under water so you can see the route more clearly, just use the Water Pollution view to lay your tiles.  If you already have a city started I would suggest getting the God Terraforming in Mayor Mode by Warrior2 http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1711
that way you can change the land without spending any money! as far as covering the tiles on land that was all done in the Lot Editor with great overhanging props by CSX.  I hope this helps.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on November 08, 2009, 02:42:15 PM
Really nicely done jpj_starfleet, thanks for explaining how you made it work. And do show us what you do with the other side when it's finished!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: dragonshardz on November 08, 2009, 10:21:33 PM
I really wish we had rail FLUPs, those'd be handy in city centers. The current Rail-Subway adapters work fine for PAX traffic, but freight traffic is usually blocked.

If it was done correctly, we could use the current Rail-under-Road ramps as the entrance, and connect rail FLUPs to them and our RUR networks.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on November 08, 2009, 10:52:37 PM
The Underground Rail network should work fine for both passengers and freight.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: dragonshardz on November 09, 2009, 03:15:06 PM
Yes, it does, but I'd love to have pieces similar to FLUPs available.

RUR: stands for Rail-under-Road, but I mean Underground Rail. My mistake.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JereUsa1 on December 13, 2009, 01:37:23 PM
Is there any progress on FLUPS under the RHW highways....?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: six9nc on December 22, 2009, 07:03:23 PM
Got the new NAM installed and did some initial testing in an undeveloped city. I noticed my flup avenue will not plop on top of my avenue. The rest worked ok.  I just want to know if its operator error or what.  I am very new to these puzzle pieces cause I didn't use them in the last nam.  I did the cleanitol file and double checked the readme files before testing. any direction to any "newbie" tutorials for puzzle, RHW and flups pieces would be just fine.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: FrankU on December 23, 2009, 07:22:08 AM
I am not sure I understand you correctly. But if you indeed tried to plop the avenue entrance on top of an avenue than it is correct. This does not work. You should plop the entrance on an unoccupied piece of land. Then you connect it with the avenue. Then you can plop the flup-pieces next to the low end of the entrance.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: rstarks on February 26, 2010, 06:36:42 AM
yes the F.L.U.P is very useful for making tunnels under the water, but it has a few limitations.



1. its hard to place F.L.U.P pieces under the water far off shore [ even in a straight line] where the water isn't transparent anymore,

2. if you wish to make a connection between F.L.U.P pieces that aren't lined up on the grid, then  you have to use curve pieces ( which take away the realism because tunnels can't curve that drastically under water). some diagonal pieces would fix this


 just offering some insight,
Starks  :P
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Blue Lightning on February 26, 2010, 06:56:15 AM
Well, actually:

1. Go into water pollution view, then place the pieces. The water will be transparent.
2.Using the curve pieces in a zig-zag pattern will yield a diagonal behavior (the sims will move along it like a diagonal)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: puresim on February 27, 2010, 10:19:05 AM
rstarks that just isn't true in my opinion.

As Blue lightning points out water pollution view removes the water for placement, and if you're going to talk realism why not look at subway system or even rail - all of which curve 'drastically'.

FLUPS is consistent in realism with other transportation types, and in my opinion is a very valuable addition.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: JDOG4545 on April 17, 2010, 03:32:48 PM
My udi disappears when i try to drive through one. what is wrong?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on April 17, 2010, 03:51:04 PM
This is normal, and it's also mentioned in the instructions.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: k808j on April 17, 2010, 04:52:30 PM
Andreas

You think it would be possible for FLUP and ARIP to collaborate on a project since they are talking about having vehicles driving under airport terminals? (Just a thought  ::))
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: fdasavcxz on April 18, 2010, 03:49:04 AM
this looks AWESOME!!! 
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on April 18, 2010, 11:26:48 AM
My udi disappears when i try to drive through one. what is wrong?
UDI vehicles are usually visible in greenish color when below surface.
If your UDI mission stops in a FLUPs tunnel, something is plopped incorrectly and the underpass is interrupted. If you post an image here, we could possibly tell.
After the next NAM, I will publish something that will allow to better visualize the integrity of these underpasses.

You think it would be possible for FLUP and ARIP to collaborate on a project since they are talking about having vehicles driving under airport terminals? (Just a thought  ::))
Certainly. Is ARIP = RMIP? Who would be the contact person?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: k808j on April 19, 2010, 06:12:24 PM
It is ShadeSlayer and RMIP is another project dealing with the runways themselves I believe, while ARIP deals with the roads on the airport.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: strucka on April 20, 2010, 10:43:06 AM
Not the same thing, but (as Chrisim probably thought) is from the same section.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Neofita on May 01, 2010, 03:15:42 AM
Is it possible flups to work underground placed under the building?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on May 01, 2010, 03:29:15 AM
Short answer: No. FLUPs are network tiles (puzzle pieces) like any other network, and buildings can't occupy the same space. What you could do is using an overhanging building (there are a couple of those, esp. diagonal buildings) and place it partially above the FLUPs.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: fafalone on May 10, 2010, 12:51:55 AM
I can't seem to find the information about making custom flups textures... I have a general idea what to do, but have a couple questions:

There's already a custom set with 6 textures, and the default install only mentions these 6 spaces. So is it not possible to have multiple expansions? How do they get linked to the flups; would the exemplar TGI's in the expansion have to be the same as in the SFBT set if its only possible to have one set, or what ids would a new set need to use?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on May 10, 2010, 01:25:41 AM
Sorry for my short reply due to RL: a FLUPs tutorial is in preparation, probably ready for next weekend
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: fafalone on May 10, 2010, 02:12:01 AM
Cool.. looking forward to it. I plan on finally making a set for the airport ramps, taxiways, and maybe roads.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Wilfried on May 10, 2010, 09:52:29 AM
Is or will there be any possibility, to make a avenue-roundabout/one-way underpass? Like this here:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/thumbnails/bfa15eba3ad6632772eb47a358007bca.jpg) (http://"http://www.ld-host.de/show/bfa15eba3ad6632772eb47a358007bca.jpg")
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Jonathan on May 10, 2010, 10:38:37 AM
I don't think that piece will possible (well it might but would require some jiggling around that may make such a piece unstable) as the ramp would be going in the same direction as the roundabout.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Wilfried on May 10, 2010, 11:14:21 AM
So, this could be done with subway transition lots as a workaround. But can the FLUP models be used as such?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on May 10, 2010, 03:38:52 PM
The implication of what Jonathan is saying is that because the upper and lower roadways would be going in the same direction, traffic could jump levels unpredictably.  So this wouldn't work with FLUPs.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Wilfried on May 10, 2010, 03:53:14 PM
It would work, you only need to do the ramps as transit-enabled lots which then would convert road traffic into subway, and vice versa.

My question here is if it's possible to use the FLUP models to achieve this.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on May 10, 2010, 04:07:27 PM
I misunderstood your question.  You could certainly build TE lots using the FLUPs models to do this, but I believe that ramps with the function that you want already exist on the STEX.  You may need to do some minor tweaking to make them one-way, though.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: dragonshardz on May 10, 2010, 09:01:25 PM
Actually, if he use the Big Dig lots available on the LEX, he won't need to do any tweaking.
Title: (FLUPs)
Post by: OwlGreene on May 14, 2010, 09:04:31 AM
Ok!  Now that my lifelong wish of driving subways has been fulfilled via the newest FLUPs in the NAM, I'm ready to try to conquer subway stations.  I determined that if you place a passenger rail station along underground rail tracks, a magic "ramp" allows the passengers to use the station.  But what if I put a GLR station along the underground tram tracks?  Will this create a "subway" station?  And if so, does anyone know any links to a GLR station that doesn't have tracks?  Someone enlighten me!!!  As of now, I just have the tracks emerge from underground to a surface station, then go back underground. 
     Second, is it possible for the hillside GLR-to-subway piece to be reworked so it may do the same thing, just from GLR to underground tram?  I'm sure there isn't too much demand, but there are cities whose subways emerge, yet continue in an open cut (like some of the outlying London Tube stations)?  If not the hillside piece, then perhaps just a tunnel entrance flush with the ground.  Whoever created the FLUPs had the idea, because the piece exists as street-to-underground road.  For me, this is the only missing piece in the game. 
Title: (FLUPs)
Post by: OwlGreene on May 14, 2010, 09:10:16 AM
While I'm at it, there's one more burning question.  The newest puzzle pieces for the Underground Rail are the best, and they're very thorough.  Can those pieces be created for Underground Tram as well?  The versitility of these pieces are far more practical as tram pieces, being that most cities which use trams/subways have a very broad spectrum of construction in reality.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Andreas on May 14, 2010, 11:01:19 AM
Well, for trams, you can simply use the subway tool. ;) There are several lots that allow tram/subway conversions.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: OwlGreene on May 14, 2010, 06:24:56 PM
I know I can easily convert to subway, but I can't UDI through a bonafide subway, and I only build these cities to drive through them.  That one puzzle piece would save the world for me, and I'm sure a few other players who enjoy the UDI function.  Also, can a GLR station be plopped next to the GLR FLUP tunnel to simulate a subway station????
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: kassarc16 on May 14, 2010, 08:07:23 PM
We need a station pack for that purpose, both GLR and URAIL. Can the GLR pieces interact with the URAIL, BTW? Allowing EL to run on those tracks too?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: OwlGreene on May 18, 2010, 12:59:19 PM
On my computer the GLR train disappears once it reaches the URail tracks.  That saddened me.  Before downloading NAM May 2010, the GLR would indeed drive on heavy rail tracks.  If the GLR would/could use the URail tracks, that'd make it so much easier to build the subways.  Right now I'm restricted to straight lines.  The puzzle pieces say something about them being used for curves and junctions?????  How?????
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on May 19, 2010, 04:32:00 PM
There is a difference between the Underground Rail and the FLUPs. U-Rail supports rail, but not GLR/tram and light rail. FLUPs supports GLR/tram and light rail, but not normal rail. Of course, we thought about combining it in one system, but there are technical limitations.
OwlGreene, have you seen the tutorial on FLUPs? It answers some of your questions. Here is the link (http://OwlGreene).
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Monorail Master on May 19, 2010, 05:47:29 PM
I'm not sure if this question fits under this topic, but move if needed.

Ok, for the U-Rail, what happened to the U-Rail under Ground Highway puzzle piece? That piece is really needed and would become very reliefing. I mean really, who'd wants to convert it from U-Rail to EL-Heavy Rail, cross a highway, and then convert it back to U-Rail? Thus wasting about $50,000 In-game money!!!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: TEG24601 on May 19, 2010, 06:59:06 PM
Any plans for FLUPs under RHW or even just for RHW-2/4 to go under other networks?

TEG
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vinlabsc3k on May 19, 2010, 07:10:25 PM
I'm not sure if this question fits under this topic, but move if needed.

Ok, for the U-Rail, what happened to the U-Rail under Ground Highway puzzle piece? That piece is really needed and would become very reliefing. I mean really, who'd wants to convert it from U-Rail to EL-Heavy Rail, cross a highway, and then convert it back to U-Rail? Thus wasting about $50,000 In-game money!!!

Monorail Master, I've used the FLUPs under Ground Highway to make trains go underground and it works for me with the paths and UDI  ;D. I don't know if it's a my unexpected "good" bug :-[ or it works really for everyone :-\, but u try it.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on May 19, 2010, 08:49:10 PM
Any plans for FLUPs under RHW or even just for RHW-2/4 to go under other networks?

TEG

There are FLUPs-under-RHW pieces for just about all of the ground networks included in RHW Version 4.0, actually.  They're at the end of the Road/RHW Puzzle Pieces TAB Loop.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: TEG24601 on May 19, 2010, 09:40:05 PM
I've been looking for them.  I had not yet found them.  Thanks Alex.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on May 21, 2010, 01:53:42 PM
I've used the FLUPs under Ground Highway to make trains go underground and it works for me with the paths and UDI  ;D. I don't know if it's a my unexpected "good" bug :-[ or it works really for everyone :-\, but u try it.[/size][/font]
No, it works for UDI and possibly freight trains, but when you let your city run for a year or more, you will observe that passenger train traffic will drop and eventually stop when you check with the Route Query tool.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jacoblost on May 21, 2010, 02:29:22 PM
I love the glr/tram flups pieces in the new NAM (May 2010) and was wondering if it was possible to create, or if there is a plan to create, a glr/tram flups to subway transition piece(s).  Actually, just a glr to subway transition  with the flups glr transition appearance (non-glr-in-ave) would be awesome as I love the look of it.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: SimNation on May 21, 2010, 03:31:58 PM
Great job on the huge update to the FLUPs system. It has tons more functionality thanks to being able to convert to subway and with the additional and sorely needed pieces. Fantastic work. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on May 21, 2010, 03:37:32 PM
Actually, just a glr to subway transition  with the flups glr transition appearance
The SFBT Subway-Tram Transition lot is prepared and will be published, but I do not know when
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/b6a6ce873f9ca891a66017ecc28d1024.jpg)(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/123a2edcf5e406f0093df16418518ef4.jpg)
The subway will of course not be visible in normal game mode, just the ramp on the right.
Unlike NAM puzzle pieces, this TE-Lot will show night light.

@SimNation I am glad that you like it, but technically the FLUPs are not subway (in the Maxis sense). They are just underground routes and ramps (no conversion to subway).
Several transition lots to subway exist created by the NDEX and RTMT teams (and the future one shown above).
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jacoblost on May 21, 2010, 04:49:55 PM
Thanks Chrisim.  That looks great.  Can't wait to get my hands on it.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: MOREOPTIONS on May 22, 2010, 02:23:48 PM
I am un able to get this under water to work?  can you post directions on this please?  thank you. God bless
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: nerdly_dood on May 22, 2010, 04:10:43 PM
Are open-top FLUPs planned?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jpj_starfleet on May 23, 2010, 12:12:34 AM
I am un able to get this under water to work?  can you post directions on this please?  thank you. God bless

I believe I can help you with that...  The trick is not to have a big drop off into the water and use the water pollution view to see were to lay the tiles other then that its just like laying them on land, I pulled my region off my backup drive before I created the city to show you what I did, I raised the land to better see the underwater parts...

The first picture shows the whole network and the FLUP's sloping into the harbor
(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/20235/2221187940053958490S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2221187940053958490QhaapF)

I slightly raised the land underwater so I could see the route
(http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/45026/2030208460053958490S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2030208460053958490LPxQjq)

These pictures you can see where I gradually raised the land where the network is to just before land, I wanted a little drop off so you could not see the slope from the top and there are overhanging props and boardwalks also to hide it.
(http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/24111/2069898970053958490S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2069898970053958490WbYrbs)
(http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/25406/2651450790053958490S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2651450790053958490LzTCjS)

This last picture is from my city with different entrance/exits but the main ave entrance and tunnel is the same.
(http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/43796/2012051450053958490S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2012051450053958490aXFLIs)

I found out if the drop off is to steep the cars basically crash on the bottom, I re-lotted a bunch of stuff with overhanging props to hide the FLUP's like trees, tables, boardwalks and air vents as you can see in the above photo.  I hope this helps you...  :thumbsup:


Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: strucka on May 24, 2010, 11:08:31 AM
Is there any development moving towards the NWM pieces? At least the basic networks under the NWM pieces.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on May 25, 2010, 03:39:42 PM
I am un able to get this under water to work?  can you post directions on this please?  thank you. God bless
If you wish to create a subsea underpass, select the water pollution map - water will not be displayed and it will be much easier to plop the puzzle pieces. There is no need for terraforming, except if the coast is very steep.
 
Are open-top FLUPs planned?
Something line NOB's sunken GLR? These must be implemented as lots because puzzle pieces do always show the surface texture (grass). Actually, you can always build a sunken network using some terraforming ...

Is there any development moving towards the NWM pieces? At least the basic networks under the NWM pieces.
Not yet. If there is interest, why not?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Ciuu96 on May 26, 2010, 10:16:19 AM
Why do trams always dissappear on udi mode when driving to tram FLUP curves? Udi works if the tram underpass is straight, but in curves tram just continues straight and dissappears. Is this because there are no "real" GLR-FLUP curves, only those 4-way/T-intersection/curve-multipieces, or is it a bug?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on May 26, 2010, 05:48:52 PM
It should work. Please post an image that shows the piece so I can verify it.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: MOREOPTIONS on May 26, 2010, 06:25:30 PM
ok,, so I am trying to make the underwater flup work,.  I will have to figure out how to make a pic on here,, so i can show what i have been doing...  Thank you for showing the pic's and your work,, is verty good...  God Bless
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Ciuu96 on May 27, 2010, 09:49:40 AM
Here you go.
It seems that computer can use that curve, but udi cannot.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3380/4644426863_161465b0b8_b.jpg)


Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: sim-al2 on May 27, 2010, 12:24:24 PM
Maybe try hitting "Enter" before entering the tunnel to switch the track?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Ciuu96 on May 28, 2010, 09:54:43 AM
Maybe try hitting "Enter" before entering the tunnel to switch the track?

Didn't work... I couldn't even hear that clanking sound that usually plays when switching the track.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: pierreh on May 28, 2010, 01:56:19 PM
Will there be a ramp for tram-in-road?

I have a few cities with GLR networks, using mostly tram-in-avenue and tram-in-road. Sofar I have used the GLR to subway conversions from RTMT, and short stretches of subway, to let the tram tracks pass under surface rail lines and surface highways. I can now convert the tram-in-avenue cases to FLUP underpasses, but this will leave a good number of tram-in-road cases and the ramp for tram-in-road would be very handy and look better.
Title: FLUPs and underground tram stops
Post by: OwlGreene on June 07, 2010, 11:05:43 AM
Shortly after NAM May 2010 debuted, I posted here about whether GLR stations could be plopped along Underground Tram tracks to effectively create functional subway stations.  Still wanna know about that.  And if the answer's yes, where can I find a GLR station without tracks through it so I can download n plop em?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on June 07, 2010, 04:22:36 PM
Shortly after NAM May 2010 debuted, I posted here about whether GLR stations could be plopped along Underground Tram tracks to effectively create functional subway stations.  Still wanna know about that.  And if the answer's yes, where can I find a GLR station without tracks through it so I can download n plop em?

The answer is "yes," but I haven't seen any such stations.  Some will be coming out in RTMT v3.70 (the next release), but that won't be ready for a while.

In fact, now that I think about it, there's no reason why existing RTMT stations with subway access can't easily be retrofitted to handle tram FLUPS as well.  Hmm...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jpj_starfleet on June 26, 2010, 12:39:29 PM
Any word on FLUP's development for the NWM pieces?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Kitsune on June 26, 2010, 06:06:03 PM
Is there a piece to go under the road and tram combo?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Kitsune on July 08, 2010, 06:59:04 PM
And another question... has there been any thought on a neighbour connection piece? This could allow us to finally make neighbour connections without needing land...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Rady on July 10, 2010, 04:35:25 PM
There are FLUPs-under-RHW pieces for just about all of the ground networks included in RHW Version 4.0, actually.  They're at the end of the Road/RHW Puzzle Pieces TAB Loop.

-Alex

Sorry to bother you with that topic again, but what exactly do you mean with the "Road/RHW Puzzle Pieces TAB Loop" ... ? I searched centuries for that FLUP puzzle pieces since the RHW 4.0 but haven' t found them so far ...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on July 10, 2010, 05:06:15 PM
They're a little hard to find - there are just so many puzzle pieces these days.  They're near the very end of the Road menu, in an entry labeled "Road/RHW Overpass and Interface Puzzle Pieces".  If you click on that, then doing a Shift-Tab will rotate you backwards through the tab ring starting at the end, and you'll find the FLUPS pieces quite quickly - they're the second and third ones from the end.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on July 21, 2010, 12:52:46 AM
While developing RTMT support for FLUPS (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11279.0), the RTMT Team came across the following rather interesting situation:

(http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq206/CaptCity/RTMT-FLUP2.jpg)

Here you can see pedestrians walking down the road, then descending the stairs in the RTMT station and boarding buses that run in the FLUPS tunnel, as well as pedestrians traveling in the opposite direction.

But you can also see cars traveling down the surface road, then driving down the stairs onto the FLUPS road.

This is not good.  $%Grinno$%

The reason I mention this here is that this does not occur merely in the new RTMT stations we are developing; this picture was taken with the current RTMT stations.  But it is not limited to them, either; it occurs with all of Cogeo's stations, and with DarkMatter's before him.  It also occurs with the SFBT road top stations, with deadwoods' stations, and with the various other road top stations created by various other people.  In fact, it is not possible to fix this in RTMT, nor, I believe, in FLUPS.

Why?  What determines what goes in and out of RTMT-type lots are transit switches.  Unfortunately, transit switches are two dimensional.  This means that if you put an RTMT station next to an overpass or an underpass, to the RTMT station it appears that it's sitting next to an intersection.  Therefore, any traffic that is permitted to leave the RTMT station can find itself on the overpass or underpass, and vice versa.

You can see a similar effect even with the Maxis stations.  If you put a Maxis bus stop where one side is facing a ground-level road and the other side is facing an elevated highway, buses on the elevated highway will use the ground-level bus station.

So with the situation with FLUPS, what is the solution?  If you use a FLUPS road underpass near an RTMT station, be sure that there is at least one road square between the RTMT station and the underpass.

FLUPS tram underpasses don't have this problem, unless they are passing underneath a road or avenue with a tram line going down the middle.  In this case, the same problem applies, regardless of whether or not there is an RTMT stop for the tram.  However, this can be turned into a feature, at least for tram-in-avenue.  If the RTMT tram-in-avenue station has subway stairs, then the stairs effectively go to the FLUPS tram line as well as the subway, and you get an underground tram stop at your RTMT station.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Mike1814 on July 21, 2010, 03:32:01 PM
I wonder are there any parallel pieces just cuz I thought it would be neat to build a double decker road if that's not too possible already.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on July 22, 2010, 07:04:20 AM
There aren't due to SC4 having no height perception meaning traffic will flit between the upper and lower roads at random.
The game will not see it as "One above ground road and one two-lane tunnel" but as "One four-lane Road".
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jp on July 29, 2010, 03:17:39 AM
i just found out that the maxis el rail to subway transition works with FLUPs!
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8558/captureyy.jpg) (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/captureyy.jpg/)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: j-dub on July 29, 2010, 04:56:30 PM
Congratulations! &apls I'm glad the game is smart enough to continue the Tram line through, looking at how the query arrow goes down, this must mean that the height of the subway and FLUPs is the same?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on July 30, 2010, 04:32:24 PM
The FLUPs are designed to work this way. The light rail follows the paths of the transition lot into the subsurface. Traffic is not converted to subway, but simply continues as light rail below the surface along the FLUPs pieces. The height (or depth) is defined by the SC4Path files. The height of FLUPs-SC4Paths is designed to be compatible with this and other transition lots.

The decision which depth to use for FLUPs was one of the first and most important and took quite some time of testing during the FLUPs design phase. -10 m is deep enough for automata to visually disappear below the surface, and shallow enough for these transition lots to work. Most transition lot paths go to about -6 m height, and the game accepts height jumps up to 4 m. The only (known to me) transition lot that was incompatible with FLUPs is the original NOB Sunken GLR at -5 m, so I had to apply a trick during remodding to get them to work, too. However, the remodded NOB Sunken GLR lots are apparently still unpublished.

Subway path height does not matter here, because traffic is not converted to subway in this case. Anyway, if you look at subway path heights, you'll see that they are at 0. So obviously the game treats subways differently from surface networks.
Title: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: OwlGreene on August 12, 2010, 12:15:25 PM
I'm very intrigued by what I'm seeing in that last picture.  I have two very important questions: 1) Does it work for UDI, and 2) Exactly what FLUP pieces are being plopped?  Someone who knows, PLEASE share the knowledge!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: dragonshardz on August 12, 2010, 05:25:05 PM
It does work for UDI. The pieces being plopped are just basic FLUPs, nothing special.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Rady on August 22, 2010, 09:34:10 AM
Sorry, obviously I'm to stupid tfind out by myself, but:

Where do I find those FLUPS pieces that go under the RHW??? I searched the whole menu up and down several times, but they still manage to hide from me ...  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Blue Lightning on August 22, 2010, 09:35:12 AM
Road x RHW button
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: zakuten on August 26, 2010, 11:58:09 AM
Sorry to be dense, but does the new FLUPs have a passing-under-GHSR tile yet? I still use that mod, and I'd love to see a piece for it. I think when I asked way back it was said to be being modded, but I've not seen anything of it yet...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Gringamuyloca on September 11, 2010, 11:03:27 AM
just skimmed through all 18 pages...didn't see any mention of Single Track Rail over road

Did I miss something?... maybe it is 'in the works'?... or maybe it is something I could learn to 'make'? ( would be nice to add something if it's within my computer skills... which I admit are limited... but willing to learn.)

Thanks for adding so much to the game!




Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on September 14, 2010, 05:18:15 PM
Sorry to be dense, but does the new FLUPs have a passing-under-GHSR tile yet? I still use that mod, and I'd love to see a piece for it. I think when I asked way back it was said to be being modded, but I've not seen anything of it yet...
I guess you installed a recent NAM (v29, or the version from May 2010)? Have a look in your HSR rotation ring ...

just skimmed through all 18 pages...didn't see any mention of Single Track Rail over road ...
You did not miss anything. Such pieces are only created if somebody asks, and you are the first to ask. I am wondering whether STR-FLUPs make sense. STR is used in rural or industrial areas, and in both cases it is unusual to build underpasses (in real life). Do we really need road underpassing single rail tracks?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Gringamuyloca on September 14, 2010, 05:25:31 PM
Do we really need road underpassing single rail tracks?

Need.. no  $%Grinno$%
 ...would like.. yes  :D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: travismking on September 14, 2010, 07:56:49 PM
tbh I think its not necessary, because STR should be used in rural areas, where you usually see at-grade crossings
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Kitsune on September 14, 2010, 08:06:46 PM
I guess you installed a recent NAM (v29, or the version from May 2010)? Have a look in your HSR rotation ring ...
You did not miss anything. Such pieces are only created if somebody asks, and you are the first to ask. I am wondering whether STR-FLUPs make sense. STR is used in rural or industrial areas, and in both cases it is unusual to build underpasses (in real life). Do we really need road underpassing single rail tracks?

We need something, and sometimes I do find the need because industrial side lines have box and tank cars sitting there waiting, which in a cramp area could block a rail crossing. And also, somtimes I find myself having parallel str that would be nice to cross.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: woodb3kmaster on September 14, 2010, 09:57:22 PM
Honestly, there is nothing in the NAM that is really necessary. Every component of the NAM exists because someone wanted it to. If someone wants to build underpasses below STR, why should our prejudices about how STR "should" be used prevent them? Besides which, I personally have driven through underpasses of exactly this sort, so the idea that a FLUP under STR piece wouldn't be realistic is patently false (not that anyone has tried to say so; I'm merely pre-empting any such attempts). I, for one, would be quite happy to build underpasses below STR if it were made possible to do so.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: zakuten on September 15, 2010, 02:38:00 PM
Well, I must have something wrong with the install; sorry about that. I'll go mess with it and see if it appears.

As for the under- STR, I could see it being used at the sides of more complex junctions and such; not so much by itself, but for example, for a railyard's underpass.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Gringamuyloca on September 15, 2010, 03:05:25 PM
under/over passes crossing single track rail are common around here as the 'rail' in this neck of the woods is just one track... unless going into a yard/siding... and some switches might have parallel tracks for a short distance anyways.... ...around here the thing that I never see is/are miles of 'double tracks'

... maybe only in Canada eh?  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Blue Lightning on September 15, 2010, 03:15:54 PM
We have plenty of stuff underpassing STR here in Ohio, seeing that most tracks here are STR.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: MandelSoft on September 15, 2010, 03:17:46 PM
...around here the thing that I never see is/are miles of 'double tracks'

... maybe only in Canada eh?  $%Grinno$%
In the Netherlands it's just the other way around: there are more dual rail stretches than single rail stretches here. The railline The Haugue - Germany is dual track along it's whole length of more than 150 km!

But let's not get too much off topic, don't we?  ;)  Anyway, even though I don't use STR myself, it's glad that at least you have the option to make a underpass under the STR.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on September 15, 2010, 05:19:18 PM
But let's not get too much off topic, don't we?  ;)
This was an interesting discussion, thank you. It tells that things can be different in different parts of the world.
In conclusion, I put road underpasses below single track on the list to do.

What other FLUPs pieces would you like to see as
Need.. no  $%Grinno$%
 ...would like.. yes  :D
(I like this  :thumbsup: ) in a future version?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Kitsune on September 15, 2010, 06:02:29 PM
This was an interesting discussion, thank you. It tells that things can be different in different parts of the world.
In conclusion, I put road underpasses below single track on the list to do.

What other FLUPs pieces would you like to see as (I like this  :thumbsup: ) in a future version?

Are there chances of a neighbour connection piece too? Would allow us to do underwater neighbour connections...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on September 15, 2010, 06:26:31 PM
You would still need to drag over the border. If you lower to the sealevel to its lowest height though, this should be possible as the FLUPs are two-way (and you can drag the network across then). Also, just using two T-Junction pieces at the border would act the same as a neighbour connection piece where you have two one-way tunnels.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Gringamuyloca on September 16, 2010, 09:15:21 AM

What other FLUPs pieces would you like to see in a future version?

...well.. a diagonal STR over road would be nice to have too  ;)
Thank you very much for taking this into consideration!


May all your picnics be ant free!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on September 19, 2010, 05:09:11 AM
No more suggestions? Everybody else is happy with the status quo?

Maybe a bit late to say, but the August 2010 NAM (some call it version 29) contains several switch fixes for FLUPs. Driving with UDI through tram-FLUPs is now possible. If you use FLUPs, better use the newest NAM.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: BigSlark on September 19, 2010, 11:33:18 PM
I'd like some STR FLUP's pieces, but other than that, I'm very pleased with your work. Well done!

Peace,
Kevin
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on September 19, 2010, 11:37:31 PM
Hm... How about some gradual on-slope pieces? Like where Road bites into a hill, but with straight walls on either side. Like what we have, but up a hill, instead of into the ground.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: xannepan on September 20, 2010, 02:56:02 AM
Great work here!

Is it possible to have a FLUP for one of the NWM pieces. I'm thinking of the MAVE-4 (Medianless Avenue, 4 lanes) piece, with an underpass for the two middle lanes, while the 2 outer lanes continue on ground level...
 
Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jp on September 20, 2010, 03:01:56 AM
I would like to suggest flups under avenue roundabout. that would be very useful in many places. and thanks for everything you have done so far! :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: pierreh on September 20, 2010, 04:03:05 AM
I already asked for it a while ago and got no reaction at all so I'll renew my request: a ramp for tram-in-road (or tram-on-road, or both), similar to the one existing for tram-in-avenue, i.e. a ramp for the road including the tram tracks in the middle of it.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on September 20, 2010, 04:04:07 AM
I'll second that request.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on September 20, 2010, 04:05:24 AM
I think diagonal ramps would be cool although, I guess, they'll be more difficult to make. We'll have to wait ;D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: smileymk on September 20, 2010, 09:57:22 AM
I already asked for it a while ago and got no reaction at all so I'll renew my request: a ramp for tram-in-road (or tram-on-road, or both), similar to the one existing for tram-in-avenue, i.e. a ramp for the road including the tram tracks in the middle of it.

I'm 95% sure that's in the NAM already. You know the road/avenue ramps where it says "Rotate for other ramps"? If you rotate one of those enough times (sorry, can't remember which one), you'll get a T-RAM ramp.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: z on September 20, 2010, 10:25:18 AM
I'm 95% sure that's in the NAM already. You know the road/avenue ramps where it says "Rotate for other ramps"? If you rotate one of those enough times (sorry, can't remember which one), you'll get a T-RAM ramp.

I just checked; there's a puzzle piece where the tram goes underground, and the road turns into a regular road, but there's nothing corresponding to the tram-n-avenue ramp, where the whole thing goes underground.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: samerton on September 20, 2010, 12:26:21 PM
I would like to join the list of requests for the tram-in-road piece... It would be a great addition!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on September 20, 2010, 04:53:57 PM
a ramp for tram-in-road (or tram-on-road, or both), similar to the one existing for tram-in-avenue, i.e. a ramp for the road including the tram tracks in the middle of it.
Such new ramps are only possible if somebody creates the model with the BAT. It's a bit tricky because it requires an adapted LOD (the LOD must remain above the surface. I can't do it.
Is it possible to have a FLUP for one of the NWM pieces. I'm thinking of the MAVE-4 (Medianless Avenue, 4 lanes) piece, with an underpass for the two middle lanes, while the 2 outer lanes continue on ground level...
FLUPs crossing below NWM at the surface are possible. A NWM ramp is probably not feasible because for each direction there would be one road lane above ground and one below ground. Unfortunately, the game does not care for the height of these paths and car traffic would jump between surface and subsurface. However, maybe it would work fine with a trick (to be tested).

Hm... How about some gradual on-slope pieces? Like where Road bites into a hill, but with straight walls on either side. Like what we have, but up a hill, instead of into the ground.
Not sure whether I understand. Something like this?
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1126/tunnelgate9.th.jpg) (http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1126/tunnelgate9.jpg)
The FLUPs Tunnel Gate for streets is published since May 2010 (in the FLUPs rotation ring, look for the pedestrian stairs and rotate with Pos1/End until this model is selected). Please have a look in the tutorial (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10876.msg326249#msg326249).

I would like to suggest flups under avenue roundabout.
Well, that was very quick and easy to implement, at least for straight underpasses:
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3626/flupra1.jpg)
We would need to agree on a standard model (a statue?) to put in the 2x2 grass tiles, because if we bulldoze them to plop a lot, the underpass is destroyed.
The route query shows that it works:
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/964/fluprac1.th.jpg) (http://img155.imageshack.us/i/fluprac1.jpg/)
(in this test city, everybody drives from home (left) to work (right) in the morning; therefore there is nobody driving in opposite direction)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on September 20, 2010, 08:15:15 PM
Sort of like the street one, but over more than one tile.
I don't like having to go through and remove my slope mod every time I want to place that piece. It's quite incredibly annoying.
(and I've seen the tutorial)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vester on September 21, 2010, 05:40:53 AM

We would need to agree on a standard model (a statue?) to put in the 2x2 grass tiles, because if we bulldoze them to plop a lot, the underpass is destroyed.

Could that be place as an overhanging prob ?
(placed on a lot on one of the corners)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: ebina on September 21, 2010, 07:53:03 AM
I don't like having to go through and remove my slope mod every time I want to place that piece. It's quite incredibly annoying.

It can be resolved by changing a few lines in the NAM Controller to generate intersection like T-OnSlope pieces. Then you will not need to remove slope mod for building the OnSlope portal.
Another option you can take with the current controller is to draw road perpendicular to where you will place the portal, like this image.
(I used ENN_SlopeMod_Medium315.dat for this testing, portal on the left side was placed without pre-dragged road.)

(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1751/streetportaltempworkaro.th.jpg) (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/streetportaltempworkaro.jpg/)

EDIT: I realized that there's one more side effect. If slope mod was created to draw gentle slope, the portal even cannot be rotated correctly. The above workaround can be used to avoid this, too.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: smileymk on September 23, 2010, 01:12:23 PM
I just checked; there's a puzzle piece where the tram goes underground, and the road turns into a regular road, but there's nothing corresponding to the tram-n-avenue ramp, where the whole thing goes underground.

I'll take your word for it (haven't had time to see for myself). I did say 95% sure (i.e. not 100%)!

In that case, I second the request for it. Quite a big gap to fill.


Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: noahclem on September 23, 2010, 01:52:07 PM
I would really value a piece like that too.

Chrisim that FLUP under roundabout looks great!  &apls I would vote for landscaping over a statue but either would be fine. It would be great to have an option to leave it blank also if one preferred to use an overhanging lot developed at a later time.

Kind of makes you imagine what could be done with RHW FLUPs / roundabout interface down the road  ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Paul 999 on October 04, 2010, 11:49:46 AM
Are there plans for a tunnel for RHW-6? of other RHW network?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Gringamuyloca on November 08, 2010, 08:18:51 AM
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/714/aveglrtosubconnection.jpg) (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/aveglrtosubconnection.jpg/)

Advice on how to connect the above... I tried laying the piece on top of existing ave, but kept getting 'the red piece' when hovering over the existing ave. If I bulldoze 3 pieces of ave then I can place the piece... but then cannot connect.

I have tried placing it further away, but no joy.. what am I doing wrong?  &mmm  :(


EDIT:
Disregard last...  ::)  ???

Found the necessary pieces...  &ops





Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Freiluft on December 23, 2010, 05:54:44 AM
I would really value a piece like that too.

Chrisim that FLUP under roundabout looks great!  &apls I would vote for landscaping over a statue but either would be fine. It would be great to have an option to leave it blank also if one preferred to use an overhanging lot developed at a later time.


I agree! This is a great interchange, and I was just trying to figure out how to build one myself. Not only will it provide smooth traffic flow, but it yields straight corners at the roundabout, which are much easier to zone. Was this marvel done with current FLUPs? If so, what connector pieces do you use under the roundabout?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: interim on December 23, 2010, 11:16:59 AM
No traffic traverses my avenue underpass. It goes under two tiles of RHW-4 before coming back up, but traffic refuses to cross underneath any of the avenue underpasses in town.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: interim on December 26, 2010, 11:22:26 AM
Actually it seems like no traffic uses any of my underpasses... Hmm... What are the critical files and should I load them last?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Monorail Master on January 09, 2011, 07:55:38 PM
One thing I'd like to point out is what I discovered last night around 1:30 am U.S. Eastern time.

That thing is that I made a fully functioning UDI-able GLR - Heavy Rail conversion. Here you go, look at the area inside the black oval.

(http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp9/MBG141/Area314195-Apr19191294552887-1.png)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: gooper1 on February 13, 2011, 06:48:16 PM
With regards to NWM FLUPs ramps, is it possible to make a ramp where all lanes of the NWM go underground (give priority for this to the upcoming NMAVE-4, ARD-3, and MAVE-6--those would be most useful, as they add (at least) one travel lane to the base network)?
Also, can you make RHW ramps, such as: RHW-MIS, RHW-4 (although a OWR/avenue ramp could be used instead), RHW-6S (if possible, due to the overhang), RHW-6C, RHW-8S, RHW-8C (if possible), and RHW-10?Diagonal FLUPs ramps too?

-Gooper1

P.S. When will Road and Avenue "slope-side" tunnels be made?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: GDO29Anagram on February 14, 2011, 03:38:49 AM
With regards to NWM FLUPs ramps, is it possible to make a ramp where all lanes of the NWM go underground (give priority for this to the upcoming NMAVE-4, ARD-3, and MAVE-6--those would be most useful, as they add (at least) one travel lane to the base network)?
Also, can you make RHW ramps, such as: RHW-MIS, RHW-4 (although a OWR/avenue ramp could be used instead), RHW-6S (if possible, due to the overhang), RHW-6C, RHW-8S, RHW-8C (if possible), and RHW-10?Diagonal FLUPs ramps too?

-Gooper1

P.S. When will Road and Avenue "slope-side" tunnels be made?

I second having MAVE-2 (Road) and AVE-4 "On-Slope" FLUPs being made, but there should also be one for OWR-2; Ever tried making a tunnel with OWR-2? Its tunnel entrance is as big as Road's (And also requires a 15m slope in order to be created; That's too tall).

Blue Lightning created a 6C FLUP Tunnel (Or at least the model for one) several months ago on the RHW thread. There were also some RHW-4 FLUPs that didn't make it into RHW v4.0. (The only available alternative is the OWR/AVE FLUPs, duh, but they don't look as good...)

As of NWM FLUPs, I recall people requesting the "FLUP Under" pieces (Like FLUP under TLA-5 or OWR-4 for example), but I don't recall actual FLUP entrances being requested.

And as far as I can tell, there's no word about ANY of these pieces, but most should be theoretically possible. Why not take it over to their own respective threads?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on February 14, 2011, 03:50:00 PM
They are indeed possible, but the limiting factor is, of course, models, which is usually the chokehold on these sorts of projects.  As soon as we've got that, however, we're good to go.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: gooper1 on February 15, 2011, 05:30:54 PM
What about FLUPs under elevated networks?
I'd think that since FLUPs are based on elevated rail, this would be impossible, but what about GLR and High El-Rail (a new acronym: HELR)? They could go over/under elevated networks (including El-Rail itself), so why can't FLUPs under Elevated Networks be created?
Also, FLUPs under ERHW/EMIS and diagonal RHWs (mainly RHW-4)?

-Gooper1
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Dexist on April 03, 2011, 04:46:26 AM
Is there a Flup piece for RHW4?  cause i cant seem to find it?

Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: noahclem on April 03, 2011, 04:54:30 AM
sorry but no, the only RHW FlUP piece currently available is for RHW-2.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Dexist on April 03, 2011, 06:18:07 AM
okay is that on the plan for future updates?


and Isnt is possible to make something like an a road under a invisible texture, so you can place anything on top of it?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on April 03, 2011, 06:58:30 AM
I believe it is planned for eventual inclusion, yes.

For many other things, that is indeed very possible, but any puzzle piece that has anything below ground level must be a Ground-Level BAT for it to appear correctly, therefore it's much harder to do.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: noahclem on April 03, 2011, 07:33:19 AM
I'm not quite sure I understand your other question but I'll try to answer (what jdenm8 hasn't answered already). You can have buildings overhanging to hide another network so it appears as an underpass. Tunnels would allow you the most flexibility to build whatever you want above and avenue tunnels integrate very well visually with RHW, though they lack its capacity and speed. They can also be placed on 8 meter slopes which is very close to the same depth as most FLUPs. Highway tunnels would keep approximately the same capacity and speed but don't mesh well visually with RHW--though it's possible to hide the transition and tunnel entrance with some kind of overhanging object similar to what I mentioned above.

Another note on using tunnels in similar situations as FLUPS would normally be used:  If you have the patience, it's possible to place transit networks directly adjacent to the top of a tunnel entrance. The technique involves placing a lot on top of the entrance that flattens the terrain but it's finicky. You can find a tutorial on it somewhere here on SC4D. Ploppable GLR and Tram-in-Avenue can be placed on top of a tunnel entrance without that trick. The limitation is that the minimum length of tunnels is 3 tiles.

Hope that answers your question/helps.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: fredskronk on April 05, 2011, 10:39:27 AM
Hi,

First of all a really big thank you for all the hard work that you all have done with FLUPs. I love them!

There's one thing I've been thinking of though. Would it be possible to make on-slope entrances for road, avenue and for GLR? The one I'm missing the most is GLR since it would be nice for a sunken station I have and for the sunken GLR pieces.

Is this perhaps in the plans?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: strucka on April 10, 2011, 08:50:57 AM
Another really cool thing would be open FLUPs, like sunken FLUPs, so you could make longer approaches, to the overpass, or a hole between two overpasses. That way, you'd get 2 overpasses instead of one ''tunnel''. That would be awesome. And yes, priority now should be an on-slope set of pieces.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Kevin1a on April 26, 2011, 09:32:56 PM
@Strucka:  I've been thinking about that a lot too.  I was in Juarez, Mexico a few years back, and I remember seeing that they use the spillways as sunken roads when they aren't full of water (it only rains a few days a year).  Open FLUPS, like sunken plazas except with roads at the bottom, would help me recreate scenes like that, or like the new bypass by the train station in Aschaffenburg Germany where a sunken road runs under the tracks as they are coming together outside the station, and numerous sunken intersections are encountered while on this sunken road.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: GDO29Anagram on April 26, 2011, 10:16:07 PM
@strucka and Kevin1a: Open FLUP pieces are merely cosmetic variations of the pre-existing versions.

All would be quite possible, if one had the time to make models. I HIGHLY doubt it would be a part of the NAM, so it would have to be a third-party aesthetic addon. Luckily, there are blank FLUPs for people who wanted to make their own textures, or T21 specific props to them. (In case you were wondering, only one set of such has ever been made.)

I would personally imagine that in order to make such a FLUP variation, you would need to make the model into a prop to be T21'd onto the blank FLUP. I guess the key is to know what the IID for one of the blank FLUPs is, if you can get around figuring out how to BAT and T21 something.

@fredskronk: Sorry if it took so long to respond. On-slope FLUPs are something that even I would want. Once again, the limiting factor is making the models needed for such.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on April 27, 2011, 02:10:48 AM
Open-cut FLUPs are indeed possible, however it will look terrible over uneven surfaces and traffic will not be visible.
This is because no matter what you do, you cannot make 3D meshes that are visible below ground level in SC4. The existing underpass portals are actually BATs that don't intersect the ground at all.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: strucka on April 30, 2011, 02:58:25 AM
But then how is the sunken GLR made? Because you can see the train there. And if that knowledge, could be somehow implemented into FLUPS we'd get nicer FLUP's, where cars wouldn't just disappear in to the asphalt.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jondor on April 30, 2011, 03:16:26 AM
But then how is the sunken GLR made? Because you can see the train there. And if that knowledge, could be somehow implemented into FLUPS we'd get nicer FLUP's, where cars wouldn't just disappear in to the asphalt.

Unlike the FLUPs which are puzzle pieces, the sunken GLR are TE lots.

SC4 handles them very differently.

Network tiles, whether plopped or dragged, cannot display beneath the ground, the ground texture will cover it up.

The FLUPs ramps are actually flat models (like many other puzzle pieces) but with forced perspective textures that make it look like the road dips underground.

If viewed from the wrong angle, this can be seen. (Try rotating any of the ramp previews and watch it, it only looks correct from one angle because the preview uses a single texture rather than four different ones)

Lots are able to display underground sections which is why the sunken GLR lots work.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on April 30, 2011, 05:20:57 AM
Exactly as Jondor said.

TE'd LOT meshes work properly, because Maxis wanted that functionality (Elevated Rail to Subway transition) whereas it was unnecessary on Puzzle Pieces as they were only meant to be used for Intersections.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Wiimeiser on April 30, 2011, 08:19:30 PM
In fact, puzzle pieces were only meant to be used for highway interchanges. Still, the vanilla toll booth poses a problem. With that glitch in mind it sems that the toll booth was a last second addition.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: speed285 on May 02, 2011, 08:47:19 AM

(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1751/streetportaltempworkaro.th.jpg) (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/streetportaltempworkaro.jpg/)

Hello everyone.

I wonder if you plan to make tunnels for avenues, roads and highways and in the images.

I've seen in some post that already exist.
Know if you have thought upa package with of these tunnels ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: GDO29Anagram on May 03, 2011, 05:03:18 PM
@speed285: It would be possible to make on-slope FLUP entrances for all the other networks, but, once again, the limiting factor is making the models needed for them. And no; None have been planned as of yet.

It is official: This thread needs a FAQ section, because the request for more FLUP entrances, especially on-slope pieces, is becoming frequently asked.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on May 03, 2011, 05:13:13 PM
Hello everyone.

I wonder if you plan to make tunnels for avenues, roads and highways and in the images.

I've seen in some post that already exist.
Know if you have thought upa package with of these tunnels ?

Thanks.
You can use Buddybud's underpasses for roads and one-ways :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: GDO29Anagram on May 03, 2011, 05:43:41 PM
@io-bg: Could you provide a link? I'm curious about this as well.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Twyla on May 27, 2011, 09:58:32 PM
@io-bg: Could you provide a link? I'm curious about this as well.
The link I have for it is this one (http://simcity4.uw.hu/underpass%20by%20Buddybud%20Beta.zip).
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: ps2owner on July 21, 2011, 03:16:26 PM
About on slope pieces:
Couldn't you guys just make a rough model and release the puzzle piece as a separate download?
I would much rater prefer a rough model then no piece at all.
Oh and BTW, FLUP's are pretty awesome.

EDIT: I would like to request an on-slope Underground rail entrance.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on July 21, 2011, 03:22:39 PM
About on slope pieces:
Couldn't you guys just make a rough model and release the puzzle piece as a separate download?
I would much rater prefer a rough model then no piece at all.
Oh and BTW, FLUP's are pretty awesome.

EDIT: I would like to request an on-slope Underground rail entrance.

Even a rough model would take a fair bit of time and requires special techniques--might as well just finish the job at that point.  Due to how the logistics of controller files work, we can't release puzzle pieces individually. 

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: ps2owner on July 23, 2011, 04:54:32 PM
Well, okay.
Just wondering, whats the typical process for making a FLUP ramp?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Freppa on July 30, 2011, 04:28:35 PM
I am wondering about the FLUPs compability with RHW? According to

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10876.msg326237#msg326237

there should exist FLUP underground pieces perpendicular to RHW of different widths.

But I can't seem to find them? (And also not for HRW, High Speed Rail) Does this have to do with the order the different plugin loads? Should I change the names of the folders in which the plugins are located?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on July 30, 2011, 04:34:21 PM
As mentioned in the RHW's readme, they're under the Road/RHW Interface button on the Roads menu.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Freppa on July 31, 2011, 02:25:42 AM
Thank you!

The readme files for the NAM (and RHW, NWM, etc.) are very well written. For me as a newbie it is though somewhat hard to know where to look sometimes. Again, thank you for your reply!  :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jarmitz on August 04, 2011, 01:42:35 PM
 :'( I am trying to create a road under a highway. I put in the right piece and get the underground road created but it won't let me connect my highway to the piece. What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on August 04, 2011, 02:05:29 PM
:'( I am trying to create a road under a highway. I put in the right piece and get the underground road created but it won't let me connect my highway to the piece. What am I doing wrong?
First draw the highway and then plop the correct piece over it ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: six9nc on September 20, 2011, 10:47:46 AM
I cant find a flup rhw-4 piece.  Am I going crazy or is not on the roads/rhw tab ring. 
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jondor on September 20, 2011, 11:32:05 AM
I cant find a flup rhw-4 piece.  Am I going crazy or is not on the roads/rhw tab ring.

If you're looking for a RHW-4 ramp, there isn't one yet.  If you're looking for a FLUP under RHW-4, it's near the end of the tab ring, shift tab past the RHW-2 ramp and the FLUP under RHW-6S/8S/10S pieces to the FLUP under MIS/RHW-2/4/6C and rotate, you'll find it.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Chrisim on October 09, 2011, 08:13:59 AM
NAM version 30 contains a new FLUPs functionality that allows you to underpass avenue roundabouts.

1)  Select the Avenue-Roundabout puzzle piece
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3889/25191327.jpg)
The red lines in the preview show in which direction the underpass will be build. If necessary, rotate the roundabout.

2) Plop it
(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/3045/95072538.jpg)
The wall of the fountain shows the direction of the underpass

3) If you do not wish to build an underpass, you can bulldoze the fountain and fill the center area differently
(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/248/31356507.jpg)

4) To build an underpass, select the FLUPs avenue ramp puzzle piece and plop it on both sides
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/783/31978007.jpg)

5) Connect avenue and roundabout parallel to ramps with onewayroads, and the avenue roundabout underpass is complete
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7685/72350289.jpg)

Alternatively, you may build an tram-avenue underpass:
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7348/90424804.jpg)

The fountain model is from BLS NAM Avenue Roundabout Fillers BSC (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=872), and we thank for the permission to use it in the NAM.

PS: my real life keeps me quite busy. I won't be able to reply for several weeks - so I kindly ask the SC4D community to reply when there are questions ...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: samoyed1958 on October 09, 2011, 08:33:50 AM
Very nice tutorial.. My question is are there more of these for the newest nam? and where might I find such great tutorials?
like for example the double decker road pieces..
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Phlogiston on October 18, 2011, 12:36:20 PM
Hi, is there mod that removes the ond way road arrows on the entrance/exit FLUP? (their appearance looks kinda odd on some zoom levels) Did I just missed it on the installer?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on October 18, 2011, 12:58:13 PM
To my knowledge, there isn't.  The NAM OWR Arrow Reduction Plugin certainly won't do it--I don't know how the arrows are generated on there, but if Tropod's old No Arrows mod doesn't work, then there's nothing out there.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: metarvo on October 18, 2011, 05:43:10 PM
I have a guess here.  The arrows aren't by any chance part of the model, are they?  If so, then that would certainly explain why the plugin wouldn't work.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Wacky Worm on October 18, 2011, 06:09:33 PM
They do appear to be part of the model. I tried the no-arrow mod myself after reading that.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: shinkansen1 on October 18, 2011, 11:29:29 PM
After looking at Chrisim's roundabout underpass tutorial and looking back to one of my cities, is there any consideration for an avenue roundabout FLUP in which the route makes a 90 degree turn, or is this too far out of the way?

I thought that the tutorial could work very well in one of my cities that uses a OWR-AVE-OWR setup in a few places, and I remembered that one of the routes makes a 90 degree turn.  :-[
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vinlabsc3k on October 19, 2011, 04:58:39 AM
@Chrisim:The tutorial is good :thumbsup:, but it's useless without a puzzle piece that cross the lane part of roundabout. ()what() I've tried every puzzle pieces of FLUP under Avenue, but it was a delusion. :'(
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on October 19, 2011, 05:55:19 AM
You don't need a piece to go under the lanes on the roundabout, that functionality is in the Roundabout piece itself.

As for 90° turns, try changing the directionality of the FLUPs. If I think I know how Chrissim did it, I think the path alterations were applied to all versions of the lanes so changing the configuration of the FLUPs in the centre should change the way the Avenue goes.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: shinkansen1 on October 19, 2011, 04:58:29 PM
As for 90° turns, try changing the directionality of the FLUPs. If I think I know how Chrissim did it, I think the path alterations were applied to all versions of the lanes so changing the configuration of the FLUPs in the centre should change the way the Avenue goes.
I am extremely pleased to find out that this method does work, and I am very excited to make great use of it! :D

So far I have only tried the 90 degree turn, but with the success that I have found here, I am eager to try different intersections underneath busy roundabouts! ;D
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: ivo_su on October 19, 2011, 06:31:48 PM
I will  began to issue the next version of FLUPs and its expansion. I expect  to include all new models of  Matt (Dexter) and we have a new set that covers all networks RHW, NWM and Maxis networks. And now we have a whole plethora of options with which we will not  cross it without great difficulty, as at present. I wish full  success of the project and I will watch with interest any future progress.

Best,
- Ivo
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: sagimine1 on October 20, 2011, 03:03:06 AM
Hi, although I am not new rather never posted on this site I do have a request to make if I am allow here that is. My request is there a way an underground railroad mod that would allow me to built the underground railroad without the top portion such as roads, avenues, highways, etc?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vinlabsc3k on October 20, 2011, 10:14:27 AM
@jdenm8: I've tried to drive the tram and it stops at the end of the ramp >:( and even the traffic doesn't flow under the roundabout. :'(
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on October 20, 2011, 02:08:49 PM
In order for the underpass functionality to work, I believe you need to have the fountain/statue that is placed by default remain in the center.

Hi, although I am not new rather never posted on this site I do have a request to make if I am allow here that is. My request is there a way an underground railroad mod that would allow me to built the underground railroad without the top portion such as roads, avenues, highways, etc?

First off, welcome to posting!  There are "blank" tiles that don't have another network over top included in the FLUPs set, and the related Underground Rail (URail) set in the NAM.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vinlabsc3k on October 21, 2011, 06:13:12 AM

In order for the underpass functionality to work, I believe you need to have the fountain/statue that is placed by default remain in the center.

It's obvious :-[, but the lane's ring don't have FLUP functionality. :'(
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: MandelSoft on October 21, 2011, 08:49:39 AM
^^ They should have...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: pimmapman on October 22, 2011, 04:55:36 AM
It works for everyone else.... Have you actually tried it or are you assuming because when you plop it it doesn't appear to have the path things underneath the lanes of the roundabout?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vinlabsc3k on October 22, 2011, 09:51:11 AM
@pimmapman: Have you read my post to jdenm8?

@mrtnrln: I figured out, but it's not work for me. :'(

If this would help to find the conflict, I've NAM 3.0.r132, HRSP 1.0, RHW 5.0, NWM 2.0 and SAM 3.0, Light, Mono and High speed rail bridges by choco and Akashi-Kaikyo bridge by Fukuda
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: sagimine1 on October 22, 2011, 05:58:18 PM
So I am guessing that a stand alone underground U-Drive railroad is not possible? How about a creation of an underground railroad tunnel?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on October 22, 2011, 06:36:18 PM
A Standalone URail plugin will not be released. It is far too much work to separate it from the main NAM build when considering the asynchronousity issues.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: daniwes on October 23, 2011, 04:46:31 PM
I'm getting some kind of texture conflict with the FLUPs.
See the screenshots below, I have the most recent version of NAM and tried reinstalling, the FLUPs are actually working fine, they just look kinda crappy this way. Any idea how to fix this?
Possible conflict with the numerous BSC Props or BSC Texture packs out there?

http://www.uploadplaatjes.nl/plaatjes/6/229073.jpg
http://www.uploadplaatjes.nl/plaatjes/6/229074.jpg
http://www.uploadplaatjes.nl/plaatjes/6/229075.jpg
http://www.uploadplaatjes.nl/plaatjes/6/229076.jpg
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: sagimine1 on October 23, 2011, 06:15:34 PM
A Standalone URail plugin will not be released. It is far too much work to separate it from the main NAM build when considering the asynchronousity issues.

I see, but is there a way to create an underground railroad pieces and incorporated with the NAM project? Say that if the is successful wouldn't be possible to expand to trams(which I believe is already in the work). Maybe something for Monorail/High Speed rail as well, which would be freaking awesome.

On the side not I am thinker not a doer ><
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: daniwes on October 24, 2011, 05:14:32 AM
Alright disregard my post: I deleted several prop packs I didn't need (from some seaport mods) and bsc textures packs 2 and 3. Then deleted the entire NAM folder, freshly reinstalled it and the FLUP textures are normal again.

Just have to run some tests to see all my other mods are still working ofc  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: sagimine1 on November 06, 2011, 08:05:11 PM
Is there a way I could build an underground route that allow me to build stuff over like train station, house, office building, etc. I thought the underground route would let me build stuff over them but i guess not.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: GDO29Anagram on November 06, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
Is there a way I could build an underground route that allow me to build stuff over like train station, house, office building, etc. I thought the underground route would let me build stuff over them but i guess not.

The FLUPs are analogous to the elevated Road/OWR/AVE pieces in the sense that they occupy zone-able tiles; You can't zone on top of FLUP pieces, and you can't just place the FLUP entrance/exit pieces by themselves and expect that to carry traffic.

Achieving what you're requesting would require a lot item with an overhanging building (outside the scope of the NAM) or a road-to-subway lot (also outside the scope of the NAM, but available as a 3rd-party plugin (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=942)).
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Rady on November 09, 2011, 04:16:47 PM
I seem to have a problem with this underground GLR line:

(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6868/glr3.jpg)

Following the GLR line to the left is the next station. Problem is, GLR won't drive between these two stations. In UDI mode the trains disappear between the curves in the lower right section of the line. I already destroyed and rebuilt this section, but I can't make them drive there. Also, I don't have any traffic in this section between the two stations (when using the traffic query tool).

I also tried to drive this route (in UDI mode) from the upper left side, but


I checked the paths a hundred times  >:(, they are ok. Also, as you can see by the red circle, I'm not missing any FLUP pieces.

Any help would be appriciated!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: TEG24601 on November 09, 2011, 04:41:00 PM
Rady,

Have you tried using Subway to connect these two pieces.  That is what I have always done, and never had a UDI issue.

TEG
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: GDO29Anagram on November 09, 2011, 04:53:20 PM
Have you tried using Subway to connect these two pieces.  That is what I have always done, and never had a UDI issue.

Those AREN'T TE-Lots. They're puzzle pieces, so you can't just connect it with the subway network. Plus, you can't even UDI with the TE-lot versions of those pieces. All tram/subway traffic will move just fine through the TE-lot version of that piece; YOU can't in UDI mode.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Rady on November 10, 2011, 01:28:34 AM
All tram/subway traffic will move just fine through the TE-lot version of that piece; YOU can't in UDI mode.

Well, so you mean the fact that the traffic query tool doesn't show any traffic on this section is due to this "Those AREN'T TE-Lots"-fact? Why then can I drive my GLR trough the normal GLR Avenue ramp that comes with the FLUPs ()what()
I will check this evening how the UDI and traffic query behaves with the normal TRAM Avenue FLUP ramp again and provide some screenies ..

Basically I don't care for the UDI functionality, but I'm kind of skeptical because the traffic query tool doesn't show any traffic.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: GDO29Anagram on November 10, 2011, 01:35:46 AM
Well, so you mean the fact that the traffic query tool doesn't show any traffic on this section is due to this "Those AREN'T TE-Lots"-fact? Why then can I drive my GLR trough the normal GLR Avenue ramp that comes with the FLUPs

I was merely correcting TEG; What he suggested wouldn't help with your problem.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: teddyrised on November 10, 2011, 06:25:16 AM
If the FLUP versions are not working properly for you, have you considered using the TE lot alternatives instead? There are two versions to this transition - there is one that came with NAM, which is part of the FLUP puzzle pieces. There is a lot-based version which is transit enabled and allows transition from tram to subway while allowing road traffic to pass on the surface.

The lot-based version is available through the RTMT addon pack (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2247) (v3.6) or as a separate download (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2248).
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Rady on November 10, 2011, 05:03:24 PM
@ teddyrised: thanks, now used the glr-to-sub converter pieces from the RTMT 3.60. Looks like it's workng now.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Gui on March 27, 2012, 11:09:57 AM
Hello;
Sorry if this post is a little old.
I would like to ask if there are all the RHW Flups!
I just can find the RHW2 flup, not anymore.


THNKS!
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on March 27, 2012, 12:02:20 PM
There are currently no other FLUPS than the RHW one.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Gui on March 27, 2012, 12:47:00 PM
Ok! Now I understand, so I have correctly the RHW installed.
By the way, I remember to have seen some RHW FLUPS projects, do you know if there are available? Also there are NWM FLUP's?

Thank you very much.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: io_bg on March 27, 2012, 01:51:35 PM
Yes, Dexter has been working on RHW and NWM FLUPs but I don't think he's been active lately. The most optimistic guess would be to expect them in the next NAM.
Let's hope a NAM associate will explain in more detail, I'd love to play with those too :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Gugu3 on June 27, 2012, 05:05:16 PM
Just a curiosity..any chance to see Flups for single track rail?I think they will be very useful..thank you
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Scarfinger on July 27, 2012, 03:36:51 PM
Is anybody working on an On-Slope Tram-in-Avenue FLUP?

If I understood the thread correctly the limiting factor on this is the making of a model.
So what about using the gtk onslope flups gateway for tram in avenue (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/25587-gtk-onslope-flups-gateway-for-tram-in-avenue/)?

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/11c67bc3bc477105c337fa0b1a432f67.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/)
Is there any chance to convert this Lot into a FLUP?

My main problem with this piece is that it doesn't support UDI.  Would it be possible to fix this without converting the Lot into a puzzle piece?
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on July 27, 2012, 06:11:53 PM
To the best of my knowledge, there isn't anyone working on that at present.

I don't know exactly how it's implemented in its current form (other than that it's a TE Lot).  I don't work with TE Lots very often, but from what I know, if it's like buddybud's and blahdy's tunnel portals and there's a network switch involved, then UDI is going to be problematic.  The last post gtaki on the subject a couple years ago indicated he was having difficulty getting UDI to work.

Whether or not it can be turned into a puzzle piece depends on how it's rendered--it's a very nice model, and if it is rendered right, and permission were obtained, it could make a nice addition.

Just a curiosity..any chance to see Flups for single track rail?I think they will be very useful..thank you

I'm not really sure at this point.  There's very little FLUPs stuff going on right now.  We have Dexter's models for the RHW and NWM FLUPs, and plans to integrate those as full-on puzzle piece setups (probably after NAM Version 31, as there's some cool stuff we're going to try with them), but that's the extent of it.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: ivo_su on July 28, 2012, 04:27:14 PM
Hello my brother Alex.
I can not hide my huge disappointment. Matt models were one of the coolest and waiting things from me. Now when I read that you plan to drop them, even with NAM 32. I can not figure out why after having completed models path files and maybe RUL's codes, these jewels have been added to NAM 31. However, there is no way NAM 32 to be ready before mid-2013 and so much waiting, given that much of the work is done not worth it.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on July 28, 2012, 04:37:04 PM
Hello my brother Alex.
I can not hide my huge disappointment. Matt models were one of the coolest and waiting things from me. Now when I read that you plan to drop them, even with NAM 32. I can not figure out why after having completed models path files and maybe RUL's codes, these jewels have been added to NAM 31. However, there is no way NAM 32 to be ready before mid-2013 and so much waiting, given that much of the work is done not worth it.

We're not dropping them, but there's no path files or RULs in place on them as of yet.  The reason we're waiting until NAM 32 is that there's something really cool we're looking at doing with the implementation (and previously thought impossible).  Because of the experimental nature of that work, it's for the best that we wait until after NAM 31.

I'm also not sure the work we've done on NAM 31 is "not worth it"--perhaps we're working on things other than the features you're really excited about, but it's really laying the groundwork for that stuff with NAM 32.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Wiimeiser on July 28, 2012, 08:25:38 PM
Lemme guess...
FLEXFLUPS or something?
Should be the first thing you show after NAM 31.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Blue Lightning on July 29, 2012, 08:30:52 AM
We'll show it when it's ready ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tilarium on January 22, 2013, 08:20:13 AM
QUESTION:  Are there any FLUP pieces to go under a RHW?  Preferably a 6 lane highway but a 4 or 2 is good as well.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: jdenm8 on January 22, 2013, 08:29:16 AM
Have a look in the Road RHW Overpasses button.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: MandelSoft on January 22, 2013, 08:30:25 AM
Yes. You can find them in the Road-over-RHW ovepass TAB-ring
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: mike3775 on January 22, 2013, 06:37:10 PM
Yes. You can find them in the Road-over-RHW ovepass TAB-ring

LOL thats where they are.  I cant tell you how many times I have looked for those things when I actually want to use them and forget where they are  :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Breki on February 07, 2013, 04:35:14 PM
Here's one - am I missing some textures, or is this how a road-under-rail underpass should look like when using Peg's Alternate rail set mod (http://www.simpeg.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=176)?

(http://i49.tinypic.com/34imhee.jpg)

Black/empty squares just don't look right..
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: vinlabsc3k on February 08, 2013, 09:41:50 AM

Maybe the mod isn't compatible with FLUPs!! ;)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Patricius Maximus on February 08, 2013, 10:21:53 AM
Here's one - am I missing some textures, or is this how a road-under-rail underpass should look like when using Peg's Alternate rail set mod (http://www.simpeg.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=176)?

Black/empty squares just don't look right..

I use that same mod, and I don't encounter those issues. When I plop a road-under-rail underpass, it gives me the default rail texture. I don't really know what could be causing your problem, but perhaps you should re-install the NAM  &Thk/(.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Breki on February 10, 2013, 07:10:39 PM
I'll give it a try, thanks  :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Meastro444 on February 14, 2013, 01:10:00 PM
Peg's mod doesn't alter the base textures I believe.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Gugu3 on January 15, 2014, 05:37:01 AM
Guys any progress on FLUPs?i remeber those interesting pieces made by Dexter time ago...any plan to revamp them for a future release?
Thanks for all your commitment to SC4 &apls
Cheers
Guglielmo
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Wthrwyz on January 20, 2014, 04:45:17 PM
Dexter's models are indeed very sharp and I too would love to get my hands on them, but the team has already stated that they want to try something new with them. Like most "new" things, I'm sure we will see them when we see them, and not a moment sooner. :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: roadgeek on February 13, 2014, 09:00:55 PM
Dexter's models are indeed very sharp and I too would love to get my hands on them, but the team has already stated that they want to try something new with them. Like most "new" things, I'm sure we will see them when we see them, and not a moment sooner. :)

I think he was just trying to ping the group.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: roadgeek on May 29, 2015, 11:42:07 AM
We'll show it when it's ready ;)

I'm guessing it's still not ready.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on May 29, 2015, 05:50:13 PM
No, and there's no need to bump a thread that's been dormant for 15 months to say that.  There is no FLUPs development occurring and the project remains on indefinite hiatus.

If anyone has technical support questions about FLUPs, come on in.  Otherwise, further complaints about the absence of certain features will lead to the thread being locked, just like the NWM thread was for a year or two.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Wiimeiser on December 10, 2015, 03:10:30 AM
Problem: FLUPs under OWR can only be placed on East-West OWR and not North-South OWR. Haven't tested other networks yet. Only appears to be affecting me thus far...
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on December 10, 2015, 03:17:57 PM
Confirmed--and as those FLUPs haven't been touched since their addition to the NAM almost 7 years ago, this one's probably escaped detection since NAM 24.  It isn't affecting its neighbors, the Road and Street pieces.  My guess is that there's something wrong with the rotations in the RUL0 entry.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: Tarkus on December 11, 2015, 03:51:50 AM
Double posting here.  The previously reported issue is not actually an issue, but rather, simply a quirk of RUL0--the entries in a given RotationRing must all be of the same length, or else weird jumping effects occur.  There were twice as many options that needed to be covered with the OWR situation, due to the unidirectionality of the network, so the full range of the piece had to be split between two TAB entries. Hit TAB again and you'll get the North-South orientation.

-Alex
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: noahclem on October 27, 2016, 03:59:29 PM
Apologies if I'm missing something obvious but I've been looking for how to handle the custom flup textures for a while and haven't figured it out. Could anyone let me know how to insert a custom texture in the available spots? Thanks :)
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: mgb204 on October 27, 2016, 05:22:30 PM
Find the SFBT Custom Flups mod would be one way. All the IDs are there, but it's simply a case of using the right IDs for textures to make a NAM override. You can optionally T21 things on them also, for example this is how the PEG Streams were added as part of that mod.

If you get really stuck, I'll dig out the repositories I had recently compiled for you. But I don't have direct access to the HDD that's on right now. I've about 3 PCs in bits right now from all my futile attempts at fixing my main rig. But I can hook the drives from that into my backup PC via USB if necessary.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: noahclem on October 27, 2016, 06:34:19 PM
Thanks man, didn't occur to me they could be in the repositories you sent. I downloaded the SFBT mod but then saw the T21 stuff and thought it was implemented in that way and so wouldn't work the way I was expecting. Should be able to figure it out now.
Title: Re: FLexible UnderPasses (FLUPs)
Post by: mgb204 on October 27, 2016, 10:24:51 PM
Bear in mind there is one key limitation for these FLUPs. They only support an Ortho FLUPs crossing. So say you want the custom texture going from East to West, the FLUPs part would only work from North to South or vice versa. If you need greater flexibility, then you'd need to get into making new puzzle pieces and the code behind it to make it work. I believe, having managed to create some new starters to get SAM11 working, I could probably help you with that. Although I've not actually made the RUL code that's needed to include such pieces in the tab-rings, I'm reasonably confident I could.

As for the repositories I speak of. I have vastly more of them than those I've released. But these particular textures are not covered by the publicly released ones.