Sim City 4 Devotion Forums

SimCity 4 General Discussion and Tutorials => Tips, Tricks and Tutorials => Questions About Custom Content Creation => Topic started by: vester on January 16, 2007, 06:11:47 PM

Title: Help with automata modding
Post by: vester on January 16, 2007, 06:11:47 PM
This thread is open for all kind of questions about automata modding.
If you have any question and suggestions about my other thread:     
Automata modding (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg102#msg102), then this is the place to post.

I will try to to answer to the best of my knowledge. Hope others will join in with their help.

to Jeronij: Please move this thread if it's in the wrong forum.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Adriano57 on February 06, 2007, 04:36:07 PM
Hi ! I make automatas, as for example this Peugeot Boxer Ikea (http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/6760/boxerikeacopiecb5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us) (a mikeseith's model) I would like to make French copcars and I would like to know how can one make to have revolving lights.

Can you HELP me please?
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on February 06, 2007, 04:46:03 PM
I would say you should have a look a some of swamper77's civic vehicles. Maybe you can reuse the lights from them. Just remember due credit. I know he have send hours making those lights.

I'm sorry that is the best that I can give you. Maybe Swamper77 will give you a better answer. Sure it will not a simple one you get.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Adriano57 on February 06, 2007, 05:01:43 PM
Ok vester, thank you for the answer. "Maybe you can reuse the lights from them" ; yes good idea !
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Swamper77 on February 06, 2007, 10:25:44 PM
Adriano,

I tend to fit the revolving light models to the vehicle models. Borrowing one of my models will only work if the vehicle you have is similar to one I have done. However, I could make a revolving light model for you if I have the time, your finished model, and a description of how the lights flash/revolve on your model. ;)

BTW, nice van reskin ;)

-Jan
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Adriano57 on February 07, 2007, 02:24:51 PM
Thank you very much Swamper for this informations and your assistance !!! I would warn you when I would have made the vehicle. Thank you still 
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Aemilia on August 07, 2008, 08:29:35 AM
I post there because i have a problem with automata and ilive
I have two texture or train cars one is first class and one second class.
My question is how can i do to have in the same train to have the both wagons with a random mean
thanks
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: MandelSoft on August 28, 2008, 10:20:40 AM
I don't know if this is the right place to post my question (and I questioned it before at the wrong place), but here it goes:

I have a nice train automata model in SC4 (, but there is one thing missing: It has a front driving caraige, but no  back driving caraige as usually with this type of trains. Is it possible to make a train like that in SC4 with automata, and if so, how to do that? If no, why not?
This is a RL pic of the train I mean:
(http://headlines.nos.nl/documents/c3/9e/c39ebc3f481218d57bb70d602ebd3cd3.small.jpg)
It has a driving caraige at the front and the back.

Please let me know

Best,
Maarten
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Andreas on August 28, 2008, 11:43:49 AM
It's not possible, unfortunately. For some reason, Maxis never thought of engines or control cars at the end of passenger trains, although they are extremely common. This is surprising since they actually thought of adding a caboose to freight trains (which are rather rare, at least in Europe). Whenever the game displays passenger train automata (this includes el-rail and monorail), there is exactly one engine and a certain number of cars, based on the usage of the railway line. If there's more than one car model installed, the game will mix them in a random pattern, so it's not possible to create regional and intercity trains, for instance.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: MandelSoft on August 29, 2008, 03:18:10 AM
Thanks for answering my question.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: shadow221 on October 20, 2009, 04:18:11 PM
where do I get an .FSH file from?
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: BlackDragonAJ89 on December 20, 2009, 07:03:00 PM
I know these questions will probably not get answered but...

I want to build an automa kit that replaces (and adds some extra vehicles) the standard Maxis cars and trucks with my own, in which I was going to build a collection of 80s model cars and trucks. I was also planning on making a replacement Bus, Passenger Train, Freight Train, and Monorail later on to go with my city's government buildings. The questions are:

1) Would I have to use a special program to model and create the vehicles (like 3DS Max or Milkshape), or could I just use the BAT GMAX tool?

2) When I program the replacement props of the vehicles and the additional vehicles that appear, what would be the IIDs and GIDs needed so that they could work with the in game prop families?
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Elric888 on December 22, 2009, 01:26:12 AM
Hi, I want to add some new vehicles pulling trailers, and there are just a few things I'm not sure of yet.
 1. I want to add some trailers to specific classes (group ID's) of vehicles, how would I go about this? I assume that I will need to define them as a new group with a vehicle script, but can this be done just by defining a new trailer class so that they will attach randomly to pre-existing group ID's?
2. How does cargo attach to the flatbeds? I havn't yet discovered this in my diggings into the simcity1.dat file...

Any info related to trailers and semi's (and car trailers) will be helpfull to me, as I'm still looking at the files figuring out what's what.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on January 25, 2010, 07:26:26 PM
Hey guys. How do I create/edit a vehicle with ilive reader and SC4 Tool? I heard SC4 Tool replaced FiSHMAN Image Manager....but I don't know how to use it. Is there a tutorial anywhere that explains it?

Thanks,
DCMetro2834
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on February 16, 2010, 04:22:08 PM
You will need some kind of 3d program, gmax doesn't work.
I used MilkShape3d.

You could used the Batch Png to Fsh tool (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2255) instead of FiSHMAN.


Have writen a little about Automata modding. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg103#msg103) on how to change the texture and how to replace the model.

Hopeful more to come.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on February 17, 2010, 05:18:44 PM
Thanks for your reply; it helped a lot! :)
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on March 08, 2010, 03:12:05 PM
Sorry for the double post, but I have one more question.....

Are there are blank templates of vehicles for the automata modding?

For example, when you open something up in the reader, there are the different images of that make up the vehicle. So am I wondering if there are any blank templates of those?

Thanks,
DCMetro2834
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on March 08, 2010, 06:10:34 PM
Blank templates ?


Pictures!

Well, make the fsh (textures) or png files (UDI ect.).


To insert them, right click -> Insert File.


Before you can use the fsh, you will need to save and restart the reader.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on March 09, 2010, 02:52:29 PM
Thanks for the reply!

So, that's how you make your own from scratch? How do I change what shape it will be?

Thanks,
DCMetro2834
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on March 10, 2010, 08:38:15 AM
I would recommend that you use a 3d program.
Not going to tell you how to use one of them.

Before you start working on a new model, maybe you should see how big a difference it will make. It could be you could get a very similar result with one of the exicting models. Remember the scale of the game.

Have started writing down some tutorials on Automata Modding (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg102#msg102).
Take a look there and you can return with any question to this thread. (Please!)



1) Would I have to use a special program to model and create the vehicles (like 3DS Max or Milkshape), or could I just use the BAT GMAX tool?
BAT/Gmax can't be used. Sorry. I use MilkShape3d, myself.
The good thing about MS3D is that it does read the 3d files that is exported from the reader.
LithUnwrap on the other hand can read these files.

2) When I program the replacement props of the vehicles and the additional vehicles that appear, what would be the IIDs and GIDs needed so that they could work with the in game prop families?
Not sure about that. I would only change the IIDs and not the TIDs or GIDs. You will need to dig out the TGIs from the simcity dat files.


Hi, I want to add some new vehicles pulling trailers, and there are just a few things I'm not sure of yet.
 1. I want to add some trailers to specific classes (group ID's) of vehicles, how would I go about this? I assume that I will need to define them as a new group with a vehicle script, but can this be done just by defining a new trailer class so that they will attach randomly to pre-existing group ID's?
2. How does cargo attach to the flatbeds? I havn't yet discovered this in my diggings into the simcity1.dat file...

Any info related to trailers and semi's (and car trailers) will be helpfull to me, as I'm still looking at the files figuring out what's what.

Not sure about these questions, but maybe or maybe not you can find something in Swampers files (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_lotsearch.php?UPLOADER=Swamper77&UPSEARCH=Creator).
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on March 10, 2010, 05:09:21 PM

Not sure about that. I would only change the IIDs and not the TIDs or GIDs. You will need to dig out the TGIs from the simcity dat files.

Oh, so there's a way to get the in game monorail build for a reskin? That would help me a bunch! Is there a tutorial on how to do that?

I am sorry I am asking so many questions. :P

Thanks a whole bunch,
DCMetro2834
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on March 11, 2010, 09:42:30 AM
Oh, so there's a way to get the in game monorail build for a reskin? That would help me a bunch! Is there a tutorial on how to do that?

I think I gave you a link (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg102#msg102) a couple of times.

Try to find one of the monorail replacement mod and start out from that.
If you just want to replace the monorail, then there is no need for changing the IID.

Take a look at this post from point (4) and on. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg142#msg142)

Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on March 11, 2010, 10:09:59 PM
I think I gave you a link (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg102#msg102) a couple of times.

Try to find one of the monorail replacement mod and start out from that.
If you just want to replace the monorail, then there is no need for changing the IID.

Take a look at this post from point (4) and on. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg142#msg142)



Thanks a bunch, Vester! :)
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on October 21, 2010, 09:01:31 PM
Hi again....

I was following screamingman's tutorial found here: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=233.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=233.0)....and all was well along until I got to this step: "Step IIIb, converting the alpha channel to a PNG".

Instead of what is shown in the tutorial, I got this....
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/7342/fishman.jpg)

Any ideas why? I am pretty sure this tut if foolproof.  &mmm

DC
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on October 22, 2010, 03:48:45 AM
Not sure what you were expecting, maybe something with colors ?

if so at the moment its showing the alpha channel.
And yes that can be all white (or partly black), which just means no part of the skin can be seen through.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on October 22, 2010, 09:20:25 PM
Not sure what you were expecting, maybe something with colors ?

if so at the moment its showing the alpha channel.
And yes that can be all white (or partly black), which just means no part of the skin can be seen through.

I was expecting a black outline of the alpha....where I could fill in the colors of the train. Instead, it is all white, instead of the usual white and black.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Vanilla9823 on November 15, 2010, 03:01:06 AM
Hello

PROBLEM:

Yesterday i create a Airplane model for SMB3, When i open SC4 and plop It.Airport . after it grow
It pauses the game and CTD ( Crash To Desktop )

MODEL
Group ID - BADB57F1
IID - 10950000
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on November 15, 2010, 11:53:35 AM
Could you attach the files, so somone can a look at it ?
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Vanilla9823 on November 15, 2010, 05:47:51 PM
http://www.mediafire.com/?24sbwjt2p1bd87k (http://www.mediafire.com/?24sbwjt2p1bd87k)
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on November 16, 2010, 10:05:34 AM
The file is set to private !
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Vanilla9823 on November 17, 2010, 03:58:49 AM
Try again.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on November 17, 2010, 08:29:42 AM
Wow that has a lot of vertexs and triangels. Maybe that is your problem.

I normal try to hold down the number of triangles (indx tab). Most of mine models, if not all, have under 100 triangles.

Your model have 7571 triangles and 21338 vertex (points).



The trick with automatas is to move as much of the details to the textures.

Remove all triangle, that can't be seen from above.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Vanilla9823 on November 17, 2010, 03:57:48 PM
What is the limit number of triangles?
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Girafe on November 17, 2010, 04:17:35 PM
I have a question concerning this field. The most complex step in automata modding is to register x,y,z,u,v of each vertex and we do it manually so more we have vertex longer it is. However I asked me if there is no possibility to export directly an array with all these coordinates from 3dsmax and to paste it in the reader ??
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on November 18, 2010, 03:50:21 AM
What is the limit number of triangles?

The smaller number, the better. Remember these are things that moves in the game and there by has to be calculated on all the time.
Don't think anyone has figured out a limit.

Had a look around my HD on automatas. The max numbers is 650.

When you start trying to reduce the number. Remember what you can do with an alpha channel and how big (small) the details you are trying to add is going to be in the game.


I have a question concerning this field. The most complex step in automata modding is to register x,y,z,u,v of each vertex and we do it manually so more we have vertex longer it is. However I asked me if there is no possibility to export directly an array with all these coordinates from 3dsmax and to paste it in the reader ??
Have copyed from excel to the reader, so it should be possible to do the same from 3ds Max.

Where is that found in max ?

I have copied data from Milkshape3D (http://www.milkshape3d.com/) to the reader. Sometimes over Excel.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: MandelSoft on November 18, 2010, 06:17:22 AM
Well, some of my BATs have custom LODs. I got once that a model contained too many vertices, and a part of the LOD just wasn't rendered, probably because of a too large number of vertices.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on November 18, 2010, 07:45:50 AM
mrtnrln: Thats is a problem with BAT, not the game.

(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4695/details3.jpg)
The details mark with red can as be done with textures

(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6797/trianglesi.jpg)
Again the red markings is details that can easy be done with textures.
The blue lines is showing how a simpler model can be done. This way the triangles marked is cut down to 25%: 18 instead of 72 triangles.
The weapons at the bottom, could be place on plane of two triangles.
The green marks one or more triangles missing.


(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/6690/bottomthings.jpg)
Two groups on the bottom that can't be seen in the game.

By moving the fan [marked 1 in the first picture] (I guees) at the top (60 triangles) , the headlight (48), the weapons on the top [2] (group of 3: 2250 - group of 2 [3]: 72) and those two groupings at the bottom (190), you will remove 2572 triangles.

Then there are all the triangles that is not shown in the game.

Talking about details:
(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6119/detailsback.jpg)

That could be done with textures, cut down:
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9389/newbackq.jpg)
to 8 triangles. Well in fact, if you know how to use an alpha channel, it could be rut as low as 2 triangles.


Hope this has inspired you how rework your model.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: Vanilla9823 on November 19, 2010, 07:19:49 AM
thank you vester.

Question:

can i seperate them using groups ?
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on November 19, 2010, 09:12:07 AM
Yes you can seperate them in groups.

I use MilkShape3D (http://www.milkshape3d.com/) for the preparation of the model files.

You might run into a small problem when insert the file into the reader. You can read about the problem here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg148#msg148), in my Tutorials on Automata Modding.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: sir on January 05, 2011, 09:02:05 AM
Dear Vester,
i read your tutorial very carefully and the first steps hadn't be a problem so far. My english isn't the best (I am from Austria) but hopefully you understand me.
I made my model in gmax and exported it to .s3d and opened it with lithunwrap. I tried to make a complete uv-map for lithunwrap and it worked perfectly. My bus looks like a real bus! So far so good.

Then I saved the file and imported it into the reader (I used another bus-automata), there are 6 groups (the main part where the people are, two hoops, a tank on the roof, a little box on the roof and two rear mirrors) - the complete number of triangles is under 500. The first problem was, that the bus was vertical, so the front part was on the top. I chanced the model and now it is normal, but the lower half part of the bus (hoops, ...) have negative y-coordinates - is this a problem?
Then I gave the boxes on the roof top and the mirrors a texture. This was very easy because they only have one colour (grey). Now I want to place the complecate texture for the main passenger-box and the hoops (both hoops have the same texture).

What I have to do now?
What I have to chance at the "Vert" and "Indx"-Tabs?
Your tutorial is very good but it suddenly stops at this point (my opinion).

Probably you can answer my questions. Thanks.
Sir Roland
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on January 07, 2011, 02:42:00 PM
What I have to do now?
What I have to chance at the "Vert" and "Indx"-Tabs?

Well it helps to have a closer look at your work. Can't tell from your post precisely how far you got.
Could you attach the files to a post or upload it elsewhere ?


Your tutorial is very good but it suddenly stops at this point (my opinion).
You should see what I had to work with, 1/3 of what is there and spread over a lot of posts.

Not sure what it is you are looking for, but most is covered by the post under The Vert tab (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg145#msg145) and The Indx tab (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg146#msg146)

I have never found the ONE way to do things. Tend to go back and forth, sometimes jumps over things and return.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on January 30, 2011, 09:54:23 PM
Hey everyone,

I was following an automata tutorial by screamingman12, and I made a beta of a monorail skin I am working on to see how it looks in game. With the in-game pic however, I am finding a few issues with the skin.

When I was re-skinning the Connexion monorail by tag_one, I made sure that I stayed in the boundaries....but the game cut off the end of the monorail wagon.
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/DC3479/Random/wagonskin_-_copy.jpg)


I made an arrow pointing to the area that looks wrong. It also looks the same in the "textured" render in Ilive's reader. (I know there are other problems, but I just wanted to get a basic version of this in game to see how the process worked).

(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/DC3479/Random/monorail_beta.jpg)

Does anyone know why my skin is getting cut off?


Thanks,

DC
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on January 31, 2011, 08:37:52 AM
I don't have a copy of it, but here goes...

I guess that you will have to compress the textuers down under the red line:
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/4408/wagonskincopy1.jpg)

That would look sometihng like this:
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4328/wagonskincopy2.jpg)
Have tone the white a little grey. White is never pure white.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on January 31, 2011, 09:55:44 AM
Thanks for the advice with the tones! It seems like that is the issue with the train...but this is what the original skin looks like.

(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/DC3479/Random/wagonskin.jpg)

I now see that the original skin has more on that side than the other side. Thanks for your help!


Also....why is the quality coming out so bad on my train? The original one by tag_one looks like this:
(http://www.stex-server.com/lots/98432/14302/Connexxion%20Monorail%2EJPG)

In my opinion, his quality looks much better than my version....


Thanks a lot for your help,

DC
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on January 31, 2011, 11:31:52 AM
White is one of the hardest color to get right.
The game turns up the brightness, so you will need to turn it down in the textures.
So try to tone down the white as a start.

Try to have a look at this picture:
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e242/vester_DK/Misc/DSCN4708.jpg)

That is a white train, right ?

Then again the colors in the pictures isn't pure white right. The RGB values for white is: 255, 255, 255

Have a look at the different colors of whites:
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e242/vester_DK/Misc/DSCN4708c.jpg)

As you can see, it's only the height lights that is close to pure white.
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on January 31, 2011, 11:49:55 AM
Oh, I see, thanks for pointing that out! It was very helpful.  :)

DC
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: mrmike1979 on February 02, 2011, 08:05:12 PM
i think i am going to go crazy I can seem to figure out why some of my skins are showing up as the red and blue colors in lot editor. just like when you run the game in software when using 512x512 textures can some one please help
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on June 20, 2012, 10:56:34 PM
I was reskinning Vester's Yellow Berlin MU model in Reader today, and saved my own version, and put it in Plugins in its own folder.  Everything looked fine in reader, the S3D model showed the entire model.

However in game, I got this issue.  I tried multiple cities, and both had this issue with the trams.
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/DC3479/Automata/nobody.jpg)

I am not really sure what's going on. &mmm  Anyone that has any pointers of a fix for this bug would be very, very greatly appreciated!!

~DC
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vester on June 21, 2012, 04:04:52 AM
Never seen anything like that myself.

Could you package up the png and the dats, so I can have a look at the flies ?

How does the Berlin Tram look in game ?
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on June 21, 2012, 07:50:45 AM
The Berlin Tram works perfectly fine in-game, actually.

So, I've attached the files.  The first folder is my reskinned version of your tram as a DAT.  I included my PNG image and FSH image in that folder, also.

I really appreciate you helping me. :)

~DC
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: vil on June 21, 2012, 09:17:18 AM
There is a greyscale image in the alpha channel of the skin FSH, that makes some parts of the skin transparent (anything darker than 50 percent grey IIRC).

The parts that are visible in your screenshot are the lighter parts of the alpha channel.

Btw Hi Arne!
Title: Re: Help with automata
Post by: DCMetro2834 on June 21, 2012, 09:22:02 AM
There is a greyscale image in the alpha channel of the skin FSH, that makes some parts of the skin transparent (anything darker than 50 percent grey IIRC).

The parts that are visible in your screenshot are the lighter parts of the alpha channel.

Btw Hi Arne!

Ohhhh, I see!!  Now that you mention it, the original "alpha blended" does indeed show all the color, while mine is faded.

EDIT: And it's fixed!!  Many thanks to Vil and Vester!! ;D

~DC

Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: bombardiere on November 16, 2016, 05:20:40 AM
Is there anywhere is a list of Maxis' road vehicle automatas IID?

Vester's thread has list of rail automatas IIDs, I would like to have a list for other vehicles. I know that I can get info by using iLives Reader Navigator tool, but a ready made list with IID types of vehicle would be very helpful.

I want to replace Maxis vehicles.

I am a bit confused with automata modding, but I want make some of my own tests first. I want to try and see if I can replace a taxi or a bus as a proof of concept test.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: mgb204 on November 16, 2016, 10:06:51 AM
I don't know off hand of a ready-made list.

But you could find an existing Automata mod of the same kind, so for example the Taxis. Then you'd have the files and IDs ready to go. In the first instance though you should look to create the S3D models, unless you are re-skinning existing automata. Because that's going to be the harder part. If you get there, making it an override shouldn't be too taxing.

Otherwise, the Navigator should make finding particular automata pretty swift. Perhaps not for the regular cars as they aren't named so clearly. But the Taxi's should be easy to locate this way.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: vester on November 16, 2016, 10:20:59 AM
Haven't seen any list on other automata than rail.

Otherwise, the Navigator should make finding particular automata pretty swift.

Navigator ? Which program are we talking about ?
(linkie please)


Guess you are referring to the Navigator sub-program in iLive Reader.
Never used that function before.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: tigerbuilder on November 16, 2016, 03:39:16 PM
Mikeseiths mod has a lot of the maxis IID's in it. Maybe that could help you a bit.

http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/12973-european-car-replacement-mod/?page=4
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: bombardiere on November 17, 2016, 09:55:00 AM
. Perhaps not for the regular cars as they aren't named so clearly.

That is the thing. :) There are at least three Taxis in the game. ;) But I think I can sort it out if I am patient enough.

@Vester Yes, we were talking about ILive Reader's Navigator tool. Sadly no super special program.  :P

To test this automata modding I did try to use a bus model from another game. Cities in Motion 1. It has better car models than in SC4 but still relatively low poly. I have tried several times but I have not been able to introduce these into the SC4 environment.

I have read Vester's and Ceafus tutorials, but so far I have not been able to get a new automata in to the game. I get the model and the texture showing beautifully in the iLives Reader's preview, but it will not show up in the game.

http://simmania.darkbb.com/t535-a-basic-automata-making-tutorial


Yesterday I did what Robin suggested and took a Maxis bus replacement. First all buses were gone in the game. So my override failed. Then I went carefully step by step. I checked I had inserted a 3ds model file, named it, set it to refer to right group number, deleted extra groups and materials and most importantly remember to push "Apply" button. This made a city to crash while loading. So I guess it is a sign that insertion succeeded, but there is something wrong in the file or model.

Vester's tutorial is missing a few crucial pictures, but I can't figure out what I am doing wrong  ()what() Perhaps something with the Groups or something I am doing with the Anim or Mats Tabs.

I tested with Cim 1 Routemaster model. It has 991 triangles. Could it be too complex for SC4? Just for a test I tried a simple Sketchup model but that too was a no show in the game.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: mgb204 on November 17, 2016, 11:38:07 AM
CTDs are a sure sign of a problem with the model. There is some crazy-low limit to the number of polys for Automata, I think as low as 500. If you are really efficient with your modelling though you should be able to find a good balance between quality and polys. This is really because as full 3D models, they had to be super efficient to work in the early 2000s without overloading a computers resources. However, you can have really detailed textures, sometimes you can use 2D textures to fake detail that the model doesn't have.

Find the details of the Taxi automata in this thread (http://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/67552-taxi-automata-modification-with-ilives-reader/) ;).

Also, feel free to PM/E-mail the models my way. I can check if all the S3D settings are correct for you. But at this point I think you simply need to lower the polygon count. Plenty of tips on that on Google (https://www.google.co.uk/#q=3ds+max+reducing+polygon+count).
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: vester on November 17, 2016, 12:10:08 PM
I have read Vester's and Ceafus tutorials, but so far I have not been able to get a new automata in to the game. I get the model and the texture showing beautifully in the iLives Reader's preview, but it will not show up in the game.
You will need to be sure that the surface is turned the right side out as the game only show the front and from the back side the model is see through.
In MilkShape 3d you can turn of, so its only the front side showing. That is the best way I can think of to check if you got the right side out.

Vester's tutorial is missing a few crucial pictures, but I can't figure out what I am doing wrong  ()what() Perhaps something with the Groups or something I am doing with the Anim or Mats Tabs.
Will try to have a look around for the pictures and reupload them.
Found them. The pictures is back to the one post where they where missing.

I tested with Cim 1 Routemaster model. It has 991 triangles. Could it be too complex for SC4? Just for a test I tried a simple Sketchup model but that too was a no show in the game.
Would try to bring that nów some what.

A lot of the details on my models are in the textures. Otherwise they tend to disappear in-game (.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: tigerbuilder on November 17, 2016, 12:48:27 PM
Everything in those tables has to be spot on perfect. I've had simple errors cause ctd. Sometimes it was obvious like number of tri's not equal to that tab. Check it all very carefully using your simple model.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: vester on November 17, 2016, 03:05:59 PM
Let me have a look at it.
To see if I can figure out what you are doing wrong.


Send a link in a PM.
When sharing a file with someone, I add the file to my Dropbox folder. Then right click -> Copy Dropbox link.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: vester on November 21, 2016, 01:14:39 PM
Is there anywhere is a list of Maxis' road vehicle automatas IID?

Started to extract the IID. It will take some time before its done.
Will post it in my automata tutorial when its done.

The parent cohort is that of any interest ?

A list of the cohort I have seen so far:
Bus
CheapCarCohort
Commute Train Cohort
Default Aircraft
Default Vehicle
Default Watercraft
ElTrain Cohort
FarmVechicles
Fire Vehicle
Freight Train
Freight Truck
Gabage Truck
Moving Van Cohort
MySim Vehicle Cohort
Police Vehicle
RichCarCohort
School Bus
SoccerMomCohort
SubwayCohort
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: vester on November 25, 2016, 02:28:50 PM
Have posted a list of vehicles and their IIDs (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=22.msg514141#msg514141) for the other type of automata beside trains.
Hope it is going be a help.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: bombardiere on November 28, 2016, 03:38:08 AM
Thank you Vester. This is exactly what I was looking for. :) Yes data is in the Dat files, but this kind of list is more user friendly.

I attach my sad attempt. The model is from another game, so I can't distribute it. For a test I took a bus replacement model and add the model in to it. It is wrong way around and I did not replace the textures. I just wanted to see it in the game so I could see how automata modding works.

It is ok in the ILives preview.

I think that I don't understand the Anim tab blocks. The model is imported from 3DS MAX. I went and set blocks 0 as for the Group 0. This made the game crash to the desktop.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: vester on November 28, 2016, 05:07:29 PM
You will need to reduce the number of trianglers 55771 and vertices 64784.
One examples where you can reduce the numbers:
The wheels are now 4x15 triangles. I would use just 4. More than that is wasted, due to the scale of the game.
That is the first 41 triangles.

You might reduce the numbers of vertices by welding vertices that shared the same coordinate in space as well as on the textures.

Maybe take a look at what I and others have done with quite simple models.
What I would do, was make a low poly model and the render the current model onto the low poly model. (baking/render to textures)
Have a look at that my list of youtube videos on 3dsmax modeling (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=17374.0).
I have use Mike Pickton's: Baking normals, AO and more in 3ds Max (render to texture)
and Clint DiClementi's Baking Ambient Occlusion Maps - 3DS Max.

Also I think Mr Bluesummers has a good one on the subject.

Looking in my thread VDK Transport around page 43 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14278.msg489958#msg489958) and on. Here you can see how I used Ambient Occlusion maps to add all the details.

Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: bombardiere on December 16, 2016, 04:34:15 AM
All right, thanks. I think I get your message. The simple is the better.

Ok, but does this bus model crash the game because it is too big? Or did I do something wrong while modding it? Because I tried with a more simple model and that did not show up in the game.

I wanted to test automata modding, before I spent time to learn and model my own automata models. Which for certain would be much simpler models than this Routemaster bus from Cities in Motion 1 game.
Title: Re: Help with automata modding
Post by: vester on December 16, 2016, 10:31:22 AM
Try to remove the Exemplar file. It points to a cohort 0x00000000;0x00000000;0x00000000
First off it should point to 0x05342861;0x096e6739;0xea20aca6

but as you don't have any properties in there beside the cohort, it doesn't add anything.