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SimCity 4 Devotion Custom Content Showcase => Network Addon Mod (NAM) => NAM 37 Release Candidate Support => Topic started by: Tarkus on April 23, 2020, 08:01:23 AM

Title: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tarkus on April 23, 2020, 08:01:23 AM
This thread is intended for general discussion and support purposes pertaining to the NAM 37 Release Candidate.

-Alex
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: matias93 on April 23, 2020, 03:00:01 PM
First, congratulations on getting to the release candidate phase, this has been a very arduous development cycle and you have done a great work!  &apls &apls &apls

I just installed the RC and I'm already finding some bits to be fixed for the definitive version. I'll be posting them here as they appear.

1. The OWR-3 x OWR-2 crossing is correctly pathed but the textures are rotated 90:

(https://i.imgur.com/fb39ZNj.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/qVZapog.png)

2. The RHW-6 Box Girder bridge dissappeared

(https://i.imgur.com/NeTw4wX.png)

I was able to rebuild it, though:

(https://i.imgur.com/ksSsjRe.png)

3. The pathing on the AVE-4 x RD looks disconnected

(https://i.imgur.com/S9YFRx0.png)

4. The 4x4 AVE-4 roundabout appears to have pathing issues:

(https://i.imgur.com/ChK7L6U.png)
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tyberius06 on April 23, 2020, 05:06:53 PM
First, congratulations on getting to the release candidate phase, this has been a very arduous development cycle and you have done a great work!  &apls &apls &apls

I just installed the RC and I'm already finding some bits to be fixed for the definitive version. I'll be posting them here as they appear.

1. The OWR-3 x OWR-2 crossing is correctly pathed but the textures are rotated 90:


2. The RHW-6 Box Girder bridge dissappeared


I was able to rebuild it, though:


3. The pathing on the AVE-4 x RD looks disconnected


4. The 4x4 AVE-4 roundabout appears to have pathing issues:


1. Thanks for the catch. I can confirm it...
2. Hm... Indeed. I don't know the techy details on this, but I can confirm the strange effect.
3. Hm... It's a funny one. It was already in NAM 36 (and probably prior that too). I can not be sure, but I think this kind of basic crossing were made by Maxis. That pathing issue can lead back to the original release of the game. I don't know if it is buggy functionally or it is just a visual glitch. Original Avenue sometimes has these. Interesting.
EDIT: it's a visual glitch only. The paths are fine.
4. I can confirm it, although I don't know if it has effect on functionality. It was already present in NAM 36. Although the gaps in the paths would be filled up if you drew out the avenue orthogonally too... Hm... Thinking a bit further on this, I think that could be a pathing limitation and or intentional (maybe drawing the diagonal AVENUE to and from the roundabout, never meant to be "legal" in that way), since the "legal" diagonal AVE into AVE roundabout has it's own FLEX piece and that has perfecly fine pathing.
But I'm just guessing on this one. The diagonal AVE-AVE roundabout flex piece however shows the paths properly. I think the way how you used it was meant for supporting the set-up for ONE AVE Roundabout with 8 connecting avenues.
(https://i.imgur.com/BiBP5P5.jpg)

- Tyberius
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: b22rian on April 23, 2020, 06:52:53 PM
hey everyone ,

I just wanted to Remind everyone .. that "live help" is also available in our discord sc4D/ Nam chat rooms .., especially related to any issues involving NAM 37 RC .. but really any questions related to sc-4 are fine to ask ..
We usually have plenty of knowledgeable chatters in there (general channel) to answer questions

So we would love to have you join and java is always free !!

https://discordapp.com/invite/NsNZHEC (https://discordapp.com/invite/NsNZHEC)
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: rivit on April 23, 2020, 09:04:59 PM

I've run the entire suite through SC4Datanode as an Audit. 

TLDR - pretty good -- please see attached zip file showing details, and candidate fixes for "faulty" exemplars.

 
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: b22rian on April 24, 2020, 05:35:11 AM
Hello again :)

I just wanted to add one more quick update about our Live help/ nam support discord chat room interface-

We have now added a new channel there called # help desk

So its specific function to answer questions related to sc4 and the NAM mods..

Also if no one is available in the # general channel who can answer your question, this channel is a nice option to post your questions there and check back at a later time , to see if someone responded to your question ( so similar to postings in the forums in that respect ).. ,  :thumbsup:

but again than here is the link to our sc4/ nam chat server rooms -

https://discordapp.com/invite/NsNZHEC (https://discordapp.com/invite/NsNZHEC)
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tarkus on April 24, 2020, 07:25:47 AM
Thank you all for the kind words on finally getting to the Release Candidate stage--it's really a huge relief for us to have the end of this marathon release cycle in site, and to give y'all something new to enjoy.

rivit, thanks for the audit report on the files--I've picked that up and have started giving it a look over.  The thought of separating the textures out is on my mind (it has some other advocates on the team), though I wanted to get the RRW vs. Maxis Rail/MHW vs. MHO crosslink nightmare cleaned out first.  The prospect of making all the ground RHW networks be model-based might also save a bunch of overhead as well, since all those wealth-level textures take up a ton of space.  It'd actually cut an installation with the RHW down by about 180MB, per my last estimate.

And matias93, thanks for the report!  The NWM x Road and OWR intersection textures were all revamped back in 2018 (about a year into NAM 37 development), inspired by the FTL intersection textures.  For some reason, when we originally designed the OWR-3, the intersection with OWR-2 was rotated 90 from all the other such intersections for other networks, and that wasn't caught in the re-texture (in large part because it was a minor change 5 months before we even had an Alpha Build).

I've attached an interim fix below.  Make sure it loads after the Network Addon Mod\2_Additional Network Features\Road, One-Way Road, and Avenue\Additional Widths and Turn Lanes folder in your Plugins.  It'll be addressed in the finalized NAM 37 release.

-Alex
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: JAndrewJ86 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:59 PM
Hi NAM Team,

First off, thank you for your continued hard work! I downloaded the new NAM version this afternoon, and I seem to be having a texture issue with the elevated highways and ramps.

The first attachment is what it looks like with NAM 36. The second is what it looks like with NAM 37. The third is the display setting I'm using, though I fiddled with them and it didn't seem to make much of a difference.

I also tried a few troubleshoots:

1) I removed all other plugins except for NAM 37 from the folder. No effect.
2) I used both SimCity Deluxe for Mac 1.1.1 and 1.2.1 (the 64-bit upgrade). Both still had the same error.

It should also be noted that I had this same issue when I played with NAM 36 on my newer MacBook Pro laptop that is running MacOS Mojave, but the issue is not present when I run it on MacOS Sierra (which is what my MacBook Air is running).

Not sure what could be causing this, and I don't know if anyone else has had the same issue, but I thought I'd raise it in hopes that you have a solution. Thanks!
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on April 24, 2020, 10:20:17 PM
Haven't seen much new so far except the L3&4 FlexFly, the two available REW setups, and the RRW stuff, but I did find a few bugs:
-The RRW piece "Between base texture and override" or whatever it's called is missing LHD paths.
-The new FlexSPUI is missing LHD EU textures, and probably LHD US textures too. The RHD textures are fine, and DrawPaths shows LHD paths are in the proper place as far as I was able to tell, it's just missing proper LHD textures at least for L0 EU, which is the one I tried.
Both of these should be easy enough to fix.
EDIT: Found another one: The last piece on the FlexRamps ring has its EU texture override in the wrong spot. The split half of the EU override is overriding the joined half instead of the split half, and it looks like two copies of the same half of the piece where one is US and one is EU. This is purely a texture override bug, the paths look perfectly fine to me.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: eggman121 on April 24, 2020, 10:54:30 PM
Ok... Time to answer some questions.

JAndrewJ86

I think a texture is missing, Try the one attached "$Deal"$.  If it does not work than you may have to change the texture settings form Low to Medium or High. If it does not work we will go from there.

Wiimeiser

Much of the content is still getting fine tuned. Thanks for the update on the LHD side of things for the RRW. The transition pieces will receive the LHD paths for the RRW. I went all out of trying to get the LHD paths into shape. I dare say there will be more.

The Flex SPUI is @Tarkus' Domain... He should be able to give you an answer in due course.

-eggman121
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: JAndrewJ86 on April 25, 2020, 10:28:57 AM
Ok... Time to answer some questions.

JAndrewJ86

I think a texture is missing, Try the one attached "$Deal"$.  If it does not work than you may have to change the texture settings form Low to Medium or High. If it does not work we will go from there.

-eggman121

Thank you for responding and for your help! Unfortunately the texture file and the texture settings did not have an effect. Any other ideas on what may be causing it?
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: gaoting on April 25, 2020, 03:14:05 PM
Will these two functions appear in the Released version?

(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/ftl-11022017-1.jpg)

(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/rhw-12112018-1.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tyberius06 on April 25, 2020, 03:38:10 PM
@Gaoting
Nothing newer element won't be in the final release, what is not already in the RC. The final will contain further fixes. So these features won't be in the current NAM 37, as far as I know.

- Tyberius
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: rivit on April 25, 2020, 08:11:44 PM
Continuing my experiments with the new NAM37RC - the first thing I noticed on loading SC4 was the large delay at the first test city I loaded after start-up. This felt much slower than I had been used to with relatively full cities with NAM36 so I decided to benchmark a bit.

here is my setup for comparison:
rivit i5-3570K 3.4GHz, 16GB Ram, SSD   CPU Benchmark = 2015  @https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

in each experiment its just plain old SC4 + some config of NAM and we measure time to region from program start, and time to load an empty city from region view.
Stats are in image below - I don't know how to insert the image directly into post

What conclusions can we draw from this?
0) I wasn't hallucinating the timing difference
1) A full controller exists for all NAM37 configurations by default - this is a regression from NAM36 and for the moment unavoidable.
2) there is a sizeable penalty due to the full controller affecting the First City loaded (which is when SC4 seems to parse/process the controller) but not subsequent maps.
3) slower/faster CPUs will show a larger/smaller delay at the first city loading - this is still quite a jump from previous NAMs and may surprise negatively. I expect smaller CPUs will appear to baulk. Time needed looks to be linear with Controller size. This delay is before considering getting city content and rendering.
4) For Euro NAM there is less advantage in selecting less NAM as the Euro textures (for now) are mostly in one 193MB File - this is a regression in some ways.
5) SC4 will always keep a live cache of about 1200MB in addition to working memory, so cache free space will be about 5-600MB, enough for a lot of plugins given enough RAM. Selecting less NAM will improve this a bit, but the large controller is a given at this stage.
6) because the Controller is precompiled there is no time advantage from selecting less NAM.  Memory is handled with caching by SC4 but the cache will come under strain in cities with a lot of NAM and building content - likely texture duress forcing paging. Windows will page temporarily in RAM, so lotsa ram and 4GB patch is always good.

Recommend:
Short term - somehow making the first city start-up behaviour an expectation rather than a surprise. Something along the lines of:
 When using NAM expect a longer delay when you load the first city in your gaming session to allow SC4 to process all of the additional features of NAM. If you work in a long session going in and out of cities in a region, only very first time is affected. Keep SC4 running to avoid getting the delay more than once when gaming.

Longer term - partial controller and compiles made easy, File splitting on Euro textures to mirror US texture sets.

~~~~
I've also had a reasonable look at RRW - love the new flex pieces. There are some things needing action - will report soon with some fixes.

Ron
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tarkus on April 25, 2020, 11:57:40 PM
Ron, thanks for reporting your further findings on the RC--it's fascinating stuff, and quite useful, and definitely something that has me thinking about what all we can do going forward to improve the experience. 

I thought quite a bit about whether or not there was a feasible way to involve the Controller Compiler directly in the installation, at least without having to massively rework the installer system itself.  The only thing I came up with was a batch file that one would use to initiate all the install routines, but because the new installer can only install things in a single directory, all those .txt files with the RULs (which are the same size as the NAM Controller itself) would end up in Plugins, which is not at all desirable.  Pulling the bridge readmes out of the installation path is also on the radar for the finalized version.

The only way we're really going to be able to tamp down NAM Controller size is if the (very few) DLL modders in the community can figure out how to implement true new networks via DLLs.  If that were to happen, we could shift the override networks from using massive quantities of RUL2 code, to much smaller quantities of INRUL and RUL1 code.  Rather than millions of lines, we'd be talking about (at the most) tens of thousands of lines.

To answer a couple other questions:

gaoting, I can confirm Tyberius' statement that those features won't be in the finalized NAM 37.  While at various points, they were planned to be on the release track, they were ultimately pulled.  They're still planned to be included in some future release--which one, I can't say at this point, however.

JAndrewJ86, I've seen similar issues with textures showing up white on reports from macOS users (and even noticed it myself the 2-3 times I've gotten to run the game on a Mac).  The textures aren't missing, and the suspicion is that it's a rendering engine issue.  The Mac version has historically been using OpenGL, and the game's implementation of OpenGL is not up to par with its DirectX implementation (which the Windows version defaults to using).  It is possible to at least tell the game to run on OpenGL in Windows, but it's very, very glitchy, and often won't even start (as happened to me just now in attempting to do so).

I do know Apple is trying to push everyone over to using Metal for graphics--I don't know if Aspyr implemented that with either of their updates, and it's also possible that OpenGL's implementation in the later versions of macOS isn't quite the same as it was in the past.

Wiimeiser, thanks for your report as well--the FlexSPUI should be a relatively easy fix.  We're looking at the Type D1-Dual Inside Shift FLEXRamp texture situation--our further investigation of it has shown it has some oddities across the board (particularly with wealth textures), but also shouldn't be terribly difficult in the end to address.

-Alex
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on April 26, 2020, 01:55:21 AM
Thanks for looking into that. In the meantime I found some more bugs:
-The ARD-3 to RHW-3 transition is missing
-The 6C-8C Type D1 is glitched
-The OWR slip lane setup is still missing its paths (might not be fixable?)
-The EU texture for the OWR-1 to MIS transition is missing
-Not shown due to attachment restrictions, but I can't seem to find the draggable setup for the RHW-8S Type E1 ramp, and the static version is marked "deprecated" meaning it's been superseded. However, no such piece or setup exists. The one where it transitions to RHW-6 and MIS does, though.
-Related to the above, the old Type D1-Dual Inside Shift hasn't been marked as deprecated yet, when it probably should be as soon as the FLEXRamp version is fixed.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tarkus on April 26, 2020, 08:24:27 AM
Catching up on those reports . . .

The ARD-3/RHW-3 transition was there . . . but had the wrong EU textures (right textures in US version), and also had broken paths.  Both are fixed with the attachments below.

I haven't been able to replicate any issues with the RHW-8C Type D1 ramp, so no idea what's going on there.

The OWR Slip Lane issues are due to the ever-capricious "Tidal Flow" system that Maxis programmed into the OWR network.  I tried applying the same fix I did to address some similar Tidal Flow issues with the OWR Viaducts that were reported in testing, and it appears things should work now.  There are some broken LHD-specific Slip Lane RULs, however, which is going to take some time to fix.

The EU texture for the OWR-1/MIS transition is not missing . . . but for some reason, the REW's code changed the IID on it from 0x5103E300 (which has EU textures) to 0x5702F280 (which does not).  Attached below are EU textures for the IID specified in the REW's code.  I'd propose we switch it back to 0x5103E300 going forward.

As far as the RHW-8S Type E1 ramp, the pattern needs to be initiated from the inner tile, not the outer.  The outer tile of the RHW-8S should stop right before the pattern starts, similar to what's done with the D2/E2 patterns.  D1 works the same way (though the D1 actually is a bit glitchy).

LTEXT issues tend to be very low priority, but an easy fix.  Probably won't address that one now, since it doesn't affect the functionality (or appearance) of the piece.

The LHD FlexSPUI issues appear to be more involved than previously thought, and are probably going to require a RUL-based solution (similar to how the FTLs have separate LHD RULs, such that we don't have to do any actual path/T21 modification).

-Alex
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on April 26, 2020, 08:53:19 AM
Okay, thanks, I'll try the attachments.

For the RHW-8C Type D1 I wonder if the problem is just a stability thing that will fix itself if I click around a bit, though it could still have a bug.

For the RHW-8S Type E1 ramp, I'm having trouble following. Could you please provide a picture for reference?

EDIT: All the attachments work fine, but clicking around didn't fix the RHW-8C Type D1 issues. In fact, 1. The preview (when it's yellow) actually shows up correctly, and 2. The other direction is even worse, displaying not only the wrong texture, but displaying it rotated 180 degrees. Though it might be orientation-specific, I'll check again.

EDIT2: Here's what it looks like from all angles: The "off" variation, where the traffic leaves, displays a rotated tile, the "on" variation displays the wrong tile in the correct position. Paths and previews are normal. This could be another case of the Capitol Records/Max's Grill conflict (https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/758868-parent-tid-conflict/) for all we know. I'll need to test with US textures, RHD, and an empty plugins folder, and all the combinations thereof, to know for sure, though...
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tarkus on April 26, 2020, 09:28:58 AM
McDuell and I investigated the D1 issue further . . . turns out it's actually tied in with the issues with the new Type D1 Dual Inside Shift ramp, and I had an older copy of the Euro .dat file in my test, which wasn't afflicted.

The regular Type D1 is fixed for EU textures with the files below (one for RHD, one for LHD).

And the 8S D1 pattern start off looking something like this . . . it's still not always the most stable thing in draggable form, though is more so with the FLEXRamp.

(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/rhw-04262020-1.jpg)

-Alex
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on April 26, 2020, 10:02:47 AM
Thanks, that fixed the problem. But while messing around I found two more texture issues with OWR, specifically crossing TLA-7 and transitioning to RHW-4.

Also, I'm still not following on the RHW-8 pic. I did start it that way, (and that's how I start the D2), I made a MIS come off diagonally, but I can't figure out how to get it to turn into RHW-4, when I tried it just messed up the whole thing as seen below. I must be doing something completely wrong...
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: McDuell on April 26, 2020, 11:00:56 AM
I recommend using the FLEXRamp type E1 for your RHW-8s.

Put down the Flex ramp, then drag away from the ramp as indicated in the pic. The default RHW-4 will convert to RHW-8s.

Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: JAndrewJ86 on April 26, 2020, 03:38:53 PM

JAndrewJ86, I've seen similar issues with textures showing up white on reports from macOS users (and even noticed it myself the 2-3 times I've gotten to run the game on a Mac).  The textures aren't missing, and the suspicion is that it's a rendering engine issue.  The Mac version has historically been using OpenGL, and the game's implementation of OpenGL is not up to par with its DirectX implementation (which the Windows version defaults to using).  It is possible to at least tell the game to run on OpenGL in Windows, but it's very, very glitchy, and often won't even start (as happened to me just now in attempting to do so).

I do know Apple is trying to push everyone over to using Metal for graphics--I don't know if Aspyr implemented that with either of their updates, and it's also possible that OpenGL's implementation in the later versions of macOS isn't quite the same as it was in the past.

-Alex

Thanks Tarkus! Is there anything that I can do settings-wise to rectify this? I'm curious as to why NAM 36 seems to function just fine, but NAM 37 has issues.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on April 26, 2020, 05:16:19 PM
McDuell, thanks for the suggestion, but it looks like it's the E2 I'm after, not the E1. I guess all the functionality is in the old deprecated static piece after all...
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tyberius06 on April 26, 2020, 06:00:16 PM
@Wiimeiser:
Here you are. DRI pattern. It's RHD, but should be similiar for the LHD too.

(https://i.imgur.com/lSj3cFi.jpg)

Also here is the FULL (not full, but almost - the RHW2 patterns can be found under this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2PeDUDlwvw&list=PLtjeQXdiIw5Uu3ign3YFxLhc7wDchFP90&index=2&t=1s)) DRI table if you don't already have it.

(https://i.imgur.com/QzvxDeJ.png)

I hope it helps!

- Tyberius
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Paul 999 on April 28, 2020, 09:28:14 AM
I can't find the RealExpressway (REW) mod, witch features are implanted yet?
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Ryan B. on April 28, 2020, 10:14:02 AM
I can't find the RealExpressway (REW) mod, witch features are implanted yet?

The REW ramps are implemented in a DRI (Draggable Ramp Interface) fashion - drag the OWR diagonally away in the direction you want the ramp to go.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: rivit on April 28, 2020, 08:36:07 PM
Please find in attached zip a report on first pass through the v37RC RRW features as I've found them on old test cities. I haven't really driven it on new cities yet.

Overall it seems to have come through quite well, but there are things to fix.

In the zip are new versions of Preview.dat and Tunnel.dat which fix some of the things found.

  Ron
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Jack_wilds on April 28, 2020, 08:42:54 PM
Got my copy... rather excited by this version...  :thumbsup:
hope it does better and more...
however reinstalling and reconfigure my plug ins... its taking awhile... 
few questions to refresh my knowing that has forgotten a few things.... 
 
1]  are there any *dll files needed to make SC4 apps work better and where do they go...
2] where does the 4gb patch file go?...
3] does the JRE install where needed or need to place a file some where...
4] what is the version of sc4deluxe when updated...
5] for me the install went well... but the fonts for buttons and text was small to read and colors to similar... and there was nothing that said 'install complete' and then offer an exit... but found install complete in the installing text at the end, but text font was small...
6] is there a z_nam file needed for this version
7] the d.a.m.n. programs where di find information to operate them... there are three versions but only have daeleys which is clumsy... which other version is better

very happy that nam 37 is very close to being complete
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: b22rian on April 28, 2020, 10:01:05 PM
Jack,

Quote
2] where does the 4gb patch file go?...

i am pretty sure you just run the exe file and it updates the main sc4 exe file
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: eggman121 on April 28, 2020, 10:46:19 PM
Please find in attached zip a report on first pass through the v37RC RRW features as I've found them on old test cities. I haven't really driven it on new cities yet.

Overall it seems to have come through quite well, but there are things to fix.

In the zip are new versions of Preview.dat and Tunnel.dat which fix some of the things found.

  Ron


Thanks for the look over @Rivit. Looks like there are a few issues that need attention. I will see about fixing what have not been fixed by you in your fixes.

Thanks for the effort into looking at these issues.

-eggman121
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tyberius06 on April 29, 2020, 05:20:32 AM
Got my copy... rather excited by this version...  :thumbsup:
hope it does better and more...
however reinstalling and reconfigure my plug ins... its taking awhile... 
few questions to refresh my knowing that has forgotten a few things.... 
 
1]  are there any *dll files needed to make SC4 apps work better and where do they go...
2] where does the 4gb patch file go?...
3] does the JRE install where needed or need to place a file some where...
4] what is the version of sc4deluxe when updated...
5] for me the install went well... but the fonts for buttons and text was small to read and colors to similar... and there was nothing that said 'install complete' and then offer an exit... but found install complete in the installing text at the end, but text font was small...
6] is there a z_nam file needed for this version
7] the d.a.m.n. programs where di find information to operate them... there are three versions but only have daeleys which is clumsy... which other version is better

very happy that nam 37 is very close to being complete

Hi Jack!

1. I might be missunderstanding something. So if you have a clean SC4 start at this point, then you need at least Simmaster07's SC4 FIX (https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/30883-sc4fix-third-party-patches-for-sc4/). It takes care of prop prox and some other game bugs. Very essential. I use this in the game's default install Plugin folder, which is where you installed the game (it depends on which version you have or if you do use a custom install destination.)

2. 4GB patch is an executable. You need to run it, then browse the original Simcity4.exe from the installation folder (it depends on which version you have or if you do use a custom install destination.). It will patch the original exe.

3. I don't understand this question. If you have Java, then just run the new NAM installer and it will place the files where it should be.

4. It depends on which version you do use. If it is a Steam or GOG copy, then you are good (but as far as I know it should be version 1.1.638 or above in the case of GOG version). The new NAM installer does NOT check the version of the game anymore (limitation).

5. with the new installer there is not a pop 'install complete' message anymore, but as you found the message is at the end of the install list. About the fonts, could it be a setting on your system? I didn't find it small during testing, so if you could provide an attached image about it, that would be cool to show us, what you have.

6. NAM 37 does not have z___NAM folder anymore. There is only ONE install folder which is the Network Addon Mod. Everything is in that folder now.

7. I have no idea about DAMN versions. I never used them.

I hope it helps a bit.

- Tyberius
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tyberius06 on April 29, 2020, 10:18:11 AM
Please find in attached zip a report on first pass through the v37RC RRW features as I've found them on old test cities. I haven't really driven it on new cities yet.

Overall it seems to have come through quite well, but there are things to fix.

In the zip are new versions of Preview.dat and Tunnel.dat which fix some of the things found.

  Ron

Hi Ron!

I don't get an of your error report.

4. Path-Error on the 90 curve puzzle piece. I checked all the available DTR puzzle pieces and all of them has paths. So that could be something else.
(https://i.imgur.com/HXaGQXw.jpg)

The rest I can confirm (apart from the last one with the textures IIDs, I don't know about those), but I guess the FARR-Road crossing accidently went missing with the structure changes, since we don't have FARR Puzzle Piece menu anymore.

Thanks for the fixes, Ron, tunnel looks cool :)

- Tyberius


Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: LucarioBoricua on April 30, 2020, 02:08:42 PM
I've been doing some very basic testing and found more problems with RealHighway bridges:



The RHW-2 bridge in the style of the default Maxis concrete bridge shows an RGB texture in zoom levels 1 to 4, but appears normal in zooms 5 and 6. Meanwhile, the RHW-4S steel arch bridge somehow lacks the pillars at the arch terminations. Interestingly enough, its RHW-2 counterpart does not show this problem.
(https://i.imgur.com/bKjOhsd.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/7nslOeI.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/N7RP30U.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Kitsune on April 30, 2020, 05:45:46 PM
Hi ... the rhw-2 is pending a quick fix. The rhw-4s is a tricky one that I'm investigating.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: XL2007 on May 01, 2020, 05:28:34 AM
I can't find the RealExpressway (REW) mod, witch features are implanted yet?

The REW ramps are implemented in a DRI (Draggable Ramp Interface) fashion - drag the OWR diagonally away in the direction you want the ramp to go.

I've tried this multiple times and it doesn't work. I just keep getting the ordinary OWR.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: b22rian on May 01, 2020, 06:41:11 AM
Quote
I've tried this multiple times and it doesn't work. I just keep getting the ordinary OWR.

sounds like there could be some larger issues here..

Come on over to sc4 discord chat room,.. we usually have "live help" there and if not just leave your issue + images to show whats going on in the "help desk " channel and someone will eventually respond there -

https://discordapp.com/invite/NsNZHEC (https://discordapp.com/invite/NsNZHEC)

thanks Brian
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on May 01, 2020, 08:38:51 PM
I know there's not much REW-wise, I believe just the A1 and B1 ramp junctions?
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: b22rian on May 02, 2020, 07:08:11 AM
Quote
I know there's not much REW-wise, I believe just the A1 and B1 ramp junctions?

Yes those 2 ramp types for the networks - owr-2
                                                              owr-1

In the form of DRI's
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on May 02, 2020, 11:32:46 PM
Is that all that's in NAM 37?
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: b22rian on May 03, 2020, 05:01:54 AM
Hi there, Wiimeiser

yes, its just those 4 ramps for NAM 37

( small update)..

There will be also ( most likely ), be smaller updates for NAM 38. since we are aiming for a shorter turn around for the
release date , this development cycle . Just to give you the heads up on that  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: godfreygodfrey on May 04, 2020, 03:45:08 PM
Just curious, does this new version have any of the MHO flex stuff?
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Zeratai on May 04, 2020, 08:22:51 PM
Hi, I hope you can help me with 2 questions:

1. I installed NAM 37 Pre release and then run a check for duplicated plugins. I ran across 3 files, that where duplicated during installation. Are these files duplicated? Can I delete one of them?

Files are these:

2 of them have the same name and size:

1. RealRailway_Textures_Misc_ERRW

Located: - Plugins\Network Addon Mod\2 Additional Network Features\Rail (RealRailway)\c_RealRailway_Textures
             - Plugins\Network Addon Mod\2 Additional Network Features\Rail (RealRailway)\d_RealRailway_Textures_Misc

2. RealRailway_Textures_Preview_ERRW

Located: - Plugins\Network Addon Mod\2 Additional Network Features\Rail (RealRailway)\c_RealRailway_Textures
             - Plugins\Network Addon Mod\2 Additional Network Features\Rail (RealRailway)\d_RealRailway_Textures_Misc

This next file has the same name but different size:

NetworkAddonMod_WideRadiusCurves_RRW

Located:

Plugins\Network Addon Mod\2 Additional Network Features\Rail (RealRailway)\0_Rail_(RealRailway) Legacy\0_Curves
&
Plugins\Network Addon Mod\2 Additional Network Features\Rail (RealRailway)\0_Rail_(RealRailway) Legacy\6_Legacy_WRC

I suspect this last file can be duplicated due to differences in size? I really don't know if two files have the same name of the file can cause conflicts in game. I've been running scans to search for duplicates in my plugins folder since one time happened to me that I downloaded like 4 times different plugins.

Next question, is not actually a question, but I noticed that the tips of the FLEXRamp Type B2,  says "RHW-8S (L0 only)" twice. I suppose RHW-8C (L0 only) is what it meant? Don't know... I attach a photo of this.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Paul 999 on May 05, 2020, 01:06:55 AM
First thanks for the new release :) It brings me back into the game

(https://i.imgur.com/Gzl0UYT.jpg)

I notice that the RHW-6 exits no longer work as stable as before. With a lot of patience it is possible to click it in the right way. I never see this problems before.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: thingfishs on May 05, 2020, 01:34:44 AM
Hi, thank you all for your continued work. Despite being a long term player, I haven't overly utilised the NAM over the years - however, I am in the middle of a RL city replication project (Adelaide, Australia),and the time has come to fully get my head around it all. I've only had a quick look so far, (nothing to report yet other than noticing the significant extra loading time, with the first loaded city in particular - that Rivit mentioned), but I do have a question.

Is there a way to avoid the new regional transport view colours? I couldn't see anything in the setup (doesn't mean I didn't miss it). I find my streets, roads and highways are all essentially black (whereas the legend indicates roads should be grey...?), and it makes it hard to glean much information from it. Thanks again.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: rivit on May 05, 2020, 05:42:51 AM
@Zeratai - answering your Rail finding.

   The duplicated files need not be removed as such, they are overriding earlier loaded stuff. We have this one on the list for resolution, and it will be fixed by the final Release.

  rivit
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Girafe on May 05, 2020, 09:01:04 AM
I installed NAM 37 in an empty Plugin folder. However the game crashes when loading a city (completely new City from new Region).
While removing folder by folder, the folder z_NAM Controller_RHD is the one making the game crashed.

Seeking for your help  ::)

Note: I have a Steam version of SC4 installed on Windows 7.

Edit: Thanks to Tibi for the help. I had to patch the exe in Steam folder  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Nathan Machado on May 05, 2020, 10:46:00 PM
Hello guys!

Are these REW (Real Expressway Modd) ramps included in NAM 37? I'd love to use them but I only can find one of the ramps by dragging a one-way-road. Are the others available as well? Thanks. :)


Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: eggman121 on May 06, 2020, 01:53:18 AM
Hello guys!

Are these REW (Real Expressway Modd) ramps included in NAM 37? I'd love to use them but I only can find one of the ramps by dragging a one-way-road. Are the others available as well? Thanks. :)

Only the Drawn ramps are in NAM 37. Those are the A1 and B1 in Diagonal and orthogonal directions.

More interfaces are planned after NAM 37 but they may take a while to eventuate.

The reason behind this is the Tidal flow Issue that breaks paths.

-eggman121
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on May 08, 2020, 03:45:56 AM
No clue why these pieces are conflicting. Yes, the game is telling me having a network connecting a FlexFly and Diagonal-FAMIS is illegal.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tarkus on May 08, 2020, 04:07:24 AM
The 45 FLEXFly doesn't have a diagonal tile at the diagonal end of its CheckTypes, but an ortho stub.  This is intentional, and that will most likely prevent the Diagonal-FAMIS curve from being placed right there as a side-effect.

Just curious, does this new version have any of the MHO flex stuff?

Yes.  The Draggable Ramp Interfaces for the MHO have been added this release.  Just forgot to list them on the features list.

I notice that the RHW-6 exits no longer work as stable as before. With a lot of patience it is possible to click it in the right way. I never see this problems before.

I haven't been able to replicate all parts of your issue (the bit of an inside ramp popping in at the bottom is the one spot I can't recreate--even with running EU textures), but I've fixed some stability with the RHW-6S Type D1, and also with the 90 MIS curves, which seem to have me able to build that setup now without issue.

Is there a way to avoid the new regional transport view colours? I couldn't see anything in the setup (doesn't mean I didn't miss it). I find my streets, roads and highways are all essentially black (whereas the legend indicates roads should be grey...?), and it makes it hard to glean much information from it. Thanks again.  :thumbsup:

The RHW-compatible Regional Transport View Plugin requires that the user open up a DataView at some point before saving the city tile.  Doing so will actually change the colors to something more fitting, rather than all black (and unfortunately, changing those more fitting colors is not in the cards--jondor chose those very specifically to cover up what you encountered.

More details on it can be found in this section of the documentation (https://sc4devotion.com/namdoc/feature-guides/realhighway/realhighway.html#region-view).  It is possible to select to not install it, but doing so will mean you won't see RHWs on the Regional Transport View.

-Alex
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on May 08, 2020, 04:41:04 AM
Actually, I was experiencing the opposite, the FlexFly couldn't be placed next to the FAMIS. If I place the FlexFly first, placing the FAMIS causes the FlexFly to become completely static and be unable to be dragged over, and if I delete the stub in between with the disconnector and place the two curves I'm unable to place filler pieces there for some reason.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: godfreygodfrey on May 08, 2020, 08:21:00 PM
Was the SFBT TiS station changed somehow? All of them have turned invisible, and when I build a new one the poles are missing and nothing denotes it as a station, just looks like a ortho TiS piece..
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tarkus on May 09, 2020, 05:20:49 AM
The station was not changed, but it's possible that some of the changes with the mod may have given you a bad install of it.  We've tried to dial the default installation back to the point where we're just providing a base station or two for each network out of the gate, with the remainder available as additional addons.  It's possible somewhere in the file architecture switcheroo that we created a situation in which certain props may not be installed.  Stations are not my expertise, so this will require some research.

-Alex
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on May 10, 2020, 06:21:32 AM
Diagonal X Diagonal RRW is missing LHD paths.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: AsimPika3172 on May 10, 2020, 02:18:22 PM
2. The RHW-6 Box Girder bridge dissappeared

(https://i.imgur.com/NeTw4wX.png)

I was able to rebuild it, though:

(https://i.imgur.com/ksSsjRe.png)

Same also on me! Some files was included under Z____NAM folder.  &mmm
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: druidlove on May 13, 2020, 10:02:36 PM
One thing that I noticed that is not working is the SFBT Tram street stop file is not working. Tried to add it back to the NAM, and it still does not show up in the list.
Another thing to mention that the left turn lanes created with the one-way trick will cause roads to disappear. It took some time to realize, just left click a road on the intersection will cause them to appear again.

edit:  after copying it back, albeit in the z__nam folder I created, the road texture is missing from it completely
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: thingfishs on May 14, 2020, 09:46:55 PM
Hi again,

just noticed this - I fell like I would have noticed if it was like that when I originally laid it out.

(However, it may have been laid with NAM 36 and this photo is with 37) Is that the issue - i.e. does it just need relaying with 37?

(https://i.imgur.com/LdjRDtg.png)

Oh, and thanks for the info regarding the transportation map (it's not ideal, but worth it to have the RHW visible).
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tarkus on May 15, 2020, 05:37:48 AM
Regarding the Tram-on-Street station, we've received multiple reports of it.  There's a file that didn't get in amidst all the file architecture changes.  We'll investigate it before the finalized release (which may still be a bit of time off . . . there's not many issues, but the last ones are proving to be a serious pain--the FlexSPUI LHD issues and a bridge-related issue chief among them).

thingfishs, regarding your Rail issue there, the RRW does alter the design of that particular curve, so I would try clicking in that area with the Rail tool.  That should address it.

-Alex
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: LucarioBoricua on May 15, 2020, 01:11:01 PM
Has anyone else faced issues with road tunnel portals (or any other tunnel type, yet to test those myself)?

If we look at the NAM 36 tunnels, the custom tunnel portals shape the terrain just right to fit against the portal shape.

(https://i.imgur.com/DMlnquY.jpg)


But then the NAM 37 tunnels appear to deform the terrain based on the Maxis tunnel portal, which of course is taller, leaving that unsighty gap where the custom tunnel model differs from the shape of the original tunnel.
(https://i.imgur.com/r6pFV3I.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: rivit on May 15, 2020, 06:52:01 PM
NAM is configured for the default MAXIS road tunnels. NAM37 will use 7.5m Rail Tunnels.

The tunnels you're using there are mine - to use them with NAM you need to make sure that the SlopeExemplar in my mod loads after NAM. 

Then it knows that these tunnels are 7.5 not 12m high and the terrain will change accordingly.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: jeffryfisher on May 15, 2020, 08:30:59 PM
I would have noticed if it was like that when I originally laid it out...it may have been laid with NAM 36 and this photo is with 37). Is that the issue - i.e. does it just need relaying with 37?
Choose the track tool and click on any of the old-texture rail. Is your rail all the new texture now?
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on May 16, 2020, 08:03:25 AM
Unless I am somehow mistaken, diagonal FlexRamps and DRIs do not exist, meaning ramps branching off diagonal RHWs require deprecated ramp pieces.

EDIT: I got a diagonal A1 to orthogonal MIS to appear by hovering the first piece of the FlexRamp ring over a diagonal RHW-4, but I'm not sure that's the correct one...

EDIT2: Found them both. But they're missing their Euro textures.

I have another problem: Joining orthogonal MIS to diagonal Road tries to pull a tile ID that doesn't exist on the opposite side, like the code was never written with the possibility of such a T-intersection in mind...
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: roadgeek on May 16, 2020, 09:55:25 AM
I think I found a glitch in one of the RHW6S bridges and the RHW 8S bridge:
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Wiimeiser on May 22, 2020, 07:49:01 AM
For some reason RHW-6S isn't appearing in the satellite view.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: metarvo on May 22, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
It seems as though the FARR-3 no longer works, at least as it did.  Did the drag pattern change?

EDIT: OK, I figured it out.  It requires the FLEX curve to get it started, then the drag pattern applies.  I suppose it does make it less likely to accidentally trigger FARR-3 in a situation where it might not be wanted (e.g. parallel DTR lines).
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: LucarioBoricua on May 25, 2020, 08:50:24 PM
It seems we have more missing textures at more distant zoom levels. Found an instance with a triple network cell: road/rail grade crossing under elevated rail top road.


Zooms 1 to 4 lack the texture:
(https://i.imgur.com/XJwVTaB.jpg)


Zooms 5 and 6 show the texture just fine:
(https://i.imgur.com/efF20dU.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: xxdita on May 25, 2020, 09:39:35 PM
Is the documentation still the same as NAM36? read-first-nam36.html has a created date of ‎September ‎13, ‎2017, ‏‎5:30:08 AM. And I don't see any documentation with a more recent date.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: dcsmycity on May 26, 2020, 12:33:18 AM
I recall seeing something in the new installer disclaiming that the documentation has yet to be updated.
Title: Re: NAM 37 Release Candidate -- Discussion and Support Thread
Post by: Tarkus on May 26, 2020, 04:11:40 AM
It's included in the .zip file itself with the installer.  There's a 0-read-first-nam37-rc.html file in there which has pretty much all the stuff to know about NAM 37.  Aside from that, however, little/nothing has been updated as of yet.

-Alex