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SimCity 4 Devotion Welcome Portal => SC4 Community-Related => Topic started by: djp on January 22, 2019, 10:50:10 AM

Title: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on January 22, 2019, 10:50:10 AM
Hello lovely SC4D people :)

I have been looking after Peter Rorlach's (DocRorlach) sites since his passing and have pretty much left them alone and sitting on my server gathering dust - everything has still been accessible to the community and apart from the annual domain renewal price there isn't really any reason for me not to continue the statue quo.

My reason for posting is to see if there is a better home for these sites or if there is even a need for them to still exist at all??
Traffic numbers are low compared to the good old days, but the sites are still in use so I am happy to continue hosting them.

They do look a little dated, but still fully functional as far as I am aware - none of the email address have been in use for a while so I would not have received any messages if there were issues.

I have backups of everything online and on my PC, so there is no chance that everything can be lost as happened at SimPeg

Does anybody still use any of the sc4tools?
I'm not sure if the download and installation catalogue (DIC) even works with Win10 - it would be nice to know if it is a usable piece of software for the community still.

I also have numerous backup files from Peter containing various gmax files and other files that may be of use to others


http://sc4tools.co.uk/

http://workingman-productions.co.uk/

Any comments or suggestions on the future of these sites would be appreciated.


David
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: fantozzi on January 22, 2019, 11:48:49 AM
I felt a shiver through my neck when I saw your avatar. I'm a big fan of DocRorlach's stuff (https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/31497-rural-docklands-expansion-rde/ (https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/31497-rural-docklands-expansion-rde/)). I think the wmp exchange is still used and someone takes care of it for memorial purpose, I guess, but overqall the SC4 community became smaller and we have to be glad for every undertaking to keep things together and to remember those pioneers that made SC4 more than one of those "come-and-go-games" to us.

Historical awareness on SC4 is still something young and sometimes childish  but it grows. There are custom content creators, now 15 years on this game - and they discover they have a cutline, a tall tale. SC4 has a history and part of this history is already covered with dust.

I joined community in 2009 and would feel honored to know more about the times before I came active. To know mre about Doc Rorlach.

 

 
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on January 22, 2019, 01:49:52 PM
Hi Fantozzi,

Apologise for unintended shock ;D

That expansion set looks really good, I have been out of the loop for so long that I have lost touch with anything anybody has done recently :(
anyway, if you feel like doing anything else I have a load of Peters old design files that may be of use to you.

I started sorting though his old backup drives to upload as Ron (Rivit) was interested in them, but RL took over and I didn't really get very far.

If there is interest I will dig out his old HDD and go through things

Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Simmer2 on January 22, 2019, 02:15:43 PM
Hi djp

You are definitively doing a huge service to the community by keeping those files still available for download  &apls

If and when you have the Doc's original gmax files dug up, I would not mind a copy to keep in my vault. Who knows, perhaps I could give life to some of them thus allowing the community to enjoy some of his unreleased content.

I have made a few things myself....

Cheers

Simmer2/Nick
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Silur on January 23, 2019, 01:21:21 AM
Hi djp
You wrote about the beautiful things of the WMP team. I thought I had everything. But now I have to look at it again. I also want to have unreleased GMaX models. Thank you for your messages and good luck.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: fantozzi on January 23, 2019, 04:23:14 AM
I started sorting though his old backup drives to upload as Ron (Rivit) was interested in them, but RL took over and I didn't really get very far.

If there is interest I will dig out his old HDD and go through things

Same thing here. Still many ideas, still delight spending time with the game but they won't let me. RL ...

I guess, my children they think it's some sort of behavioral problem, they have to keep old Fantozzi away form the game, it's not good for his mental health if he spents so much time with a silly game at his age. I'd always thought, when you become adult you can do all the things freely that you had to hide when you was a little boy. No way. Nothing did change - like mother didn't let you have some privacy even under the blanket in your childhood now it's your own children checking your fridge and your PC if there is something "insane" to worry about. And  if there is porn, maybe it would be okay, but there is SC4 and they are worried. Mother said: "don't do this son, it's weakening your mind." Now your children say: "don't play so much SC4 dad, it weakens your mind." Once priests gave ethics. Now fitness-trainers give ethics. And strange thing I always find myself on the wrong track. 

Sorry. I became distracted. I don't have max, only gmax and I guess the original models are better in the hands of Simmer2. I even like this.

When I made the Rural Dockland Expansion there wasn't most of Nick's props and I just had started batting. I want to redo the whole RDE project and making use of Simmer2 content. So to my personal interests this would fit perfectly if I could ask Simmer2 for some DocRorlach stuff.

But if there is any dockland related props in your posession I would be highly interested. As soon as I have finished my urban street pack I'll making a completely new version of the RDE. I would also be glad to add some lot dedicated to DocRorlach, some kind of monument or prop related to him, a "DocRohrlack Square" something like this, so inside the game he would have his own place.  If you have any idea for this please let me know.

Thank you. 
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: matias93 on January 23, 2019, 09:01:46 AM
Super brief comment because I'm at the office right now, but yes, the DIC indeed works perfectly with Windows 10, and is still really useful. I've done some low-key campaign to motivate others to use it, but I cannot say for sure if it has had effect.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on January 23, 2019, 09:51:20 AM
Thanks for your replies, it looks like there is still interest in Peters work - which is good to hear &apls

I'll have a look through his old archives when I get a chance and see what is in there, I do not think there is any unreleased content ()sad() - just design files for things that have already been released.
I don't know how these things are assembled to work in the game, but hopefully what I have is useful :thumbsup:

it's good to also hear that the DIC behaves itself with Win10, hopefully the same applies to the other tools

David
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Tyberius06 on January 23, 2019, 10:32:31 AM
... none of the email address have been in use for a while so I would not have received any messages if there were issues.

David

Hi David!

I tried to make contact via the comments@workingman-productions.co.uk email address one month ago (regarding Doc's contents and the usage of Doc's contents), but my email came back with an error message, that "the email address can not be found or it is not able to receive any emails". I don't know how it would look like in english, since I use my gmail in hungarian, so this was the best translation about the error message what I received.
Anyway Ron (Rivit) helped me out in that matter.
Atm I quite busy with some NAM path modding stuffs, but I also have background projects with STEX and LEX admins organizing contents on the exchanges. I think I have downloaded all Doc's contents from the WMP site and I made a little organizing work on my end for my use (better folder structure, merging called prop packs, take out the duplicate and redundant essential and texture files etc...), so if you plan anything similiar or eventually you plan to bring those contents to other exchanges (or in the case of the STEX contents would consider an update - these "changes" - what I made for myself for my back-up collection - are not affecting on the modding or functional part of the uploads) I would be happy to help. Also I'm interested in getting those gmax files, if it's possible :)

Kind Regards,

Tyberius
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on January 23, 2019, 10:50:34 AM
... none of the email address have been in use for a while so I would not have received any messages if there were issues.

David

Hi David!

I tried to make contact via the comments@workingman-productions.co.uk email address one month ago (regarding Doc's contents and the usage of Doc's contents), but my email came back with an error message, that "the email address can not be found or it is not able to receive any emails". I don't know how it would look like in english, since I use my gmail in hungarian, so this was the best translation about the error message what I received.
Anyway Ron (Rivit) helped me out in that matter.
Atm I quite busy with some NAM path modding stuffs, but I also have background projects with STEX and LEX admins organizing contents on the exchanges. I think I have downloaded all Doc's contents from the WMP site and I made a little organizing work on my end for my use (better folder structure, merging called prop packs, take out the duplicate and redundant essential and texture files etc...), so if you plan anything similiar or eventually you plan to bring those contents to other exchanges (or in the case of the STEX contents would consider an update - these "changes" - what I made for myself for my back-up collection - are not affecting on the modding or functional part of the uploads) I would be happy to help. Also I'm interested in getting those gmax files, if it's possible :)

Kind Regards,

Tyberius

Hello Tyberious,

Apologise that you could not make contact directly, unfortunately when I changed servers and swapped the domains over the email address that had been setup did not transfer so no longer accepted incoming emails - I think I will set these up again so at least there is a point of contact for the WMP site.

I am happy that Rivit was able to help you out with this matter and am 100% happy for Rivit to do whatever he feels best for this content (especially in my absence ;D)

It may be a good idea to update the STEX uploads and also add all the content to the LEX as well, I will take you up on your offer of help here :thumbsup:

I best get on sorting these files, just hope there is something useful.

David


Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: mattb325 on January 25, 2019, 03:39:35 PM
Hi djp. A huge thanks for keeping Peter's content alive and available for all of these years - docRorlachs work was really lovely  :)
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on January 29, 2019, 09:29:33 AM
Hi djp. A huge thanks for keeping Peter's content alive and available for all of these years - docRorlachs work was really lovely  :)

Thanks Matt,

no problem with hosting Doc's work - as nobody has suggested an alternative I will continue the status quo and when I get sorted with other things I can add all the files to the STEX & LEX as well with the help of Tyberious :thumbsup:

I have a large archive of gmax files and have also found SC4DESC & SC4MODEL files - are these any use or would they all have been accessible via any published content??

What is the best way of getting these files to people who are interested in them??


David
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: fantozzi on February 03, 2019, 05:52:12 AM

I have a large archive of gmax files and have also found SC4DESC & SC4MODEL files - are these any use or would they all have been accessible via any published content??

What is the best way of getting these files to people who are interested in them??


David

My five cents: with Simmer2 and Tyberius you would have two very good counselors regarding the needs of judging, preparing and organizing custom content. The best way is to upload it to the LEX, the file exchange. Maybe (pm with Tarkus) it's possible to make an general team acoount for "Working Man Productions"?

I thing the stuff shouldn't be uploaded all at once and all in one - it's much more work, of course, but also more dedication, to present each piece in a proper way with description and pictures. In the past there where big packs uploaded with almost no info - and mostly tghey become forgotten. If going public nice presentation and proper description is needed. That's where you may need help but just pm one of us.

But first things have to be sorted. This may be the hardest task because there are different approaches that work and very quick you may discuss about matters of taste.

The basic principle of sorting a big bunch of stuff is always the same (it was first described as a relationship between "genus" and "species" by old greek philosopher Aristotle) - you're to find the genus of species and set them as categories to more refine categories.

A basic introducion, I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Avpz-mXU0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Avpz-mXU0) But I think the guy misses point to explain how to prove predicates of being a genus-species-relation?

The problem is there are two general approaches - you can sort the stuff thematically or you can sort the stuff technically (and more). And both methods will conflict. For example you make three pots with the themes: residentials, industry, commerce. And you make three other pots with the technical type of data: dependency, bat, lot. Suddenly you will discover that the pots don't work together - the dependency pack could also be in the residential pot or industry pot - where to put it?

These are the basic problems of taxonomy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomy)) and always the biggest challenge in organisation. So the questions is to find a fitting taxonomy to organize the SC4 stuff. Which even makes up a great part of many debates about dependencies plugin-folder organisation etc. If this "taxonomy" or "classification" is done things become more easy.

Blablabla ...  :blahblah: &Thk/( ... to summarize - custom content of general interest should be uploaded to one of the two international file exchanges. It should be uploaded with proper description/documentation and in a "easy to use form" and therefore has to be edited/curated and therefore should be sorted, classified first.

Hope this makes sense.     
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Tyberius06 on April 28, 2019, 07:33:43 PM
Hi djp. A huge thanks for keeping Peter's content alive and available for all of these years - docRorlachs work was really lovely  :)

Thanks Matt,

no problem with hosting Doc's work - as nobody has suggested an alternative I will continue the status quo and when I get sorted with other things I can add all the files to the STEX & LEX as well with the help of Tyberious :thumbsup:

I have a large archive of gmax files and have also found SC4DESC & SC4MODEL files - are these any use or would they all have been accessible via any published content??

What is the best way of getting these files to people who are interested in them??


David

Hi David and everybody!

I'm bumping this thread up, because by now I finished my main project for the next NAM, so time to focusing some community work! I was thinking about what should we do, and have some ideas so in short I would like to share them.
- what is on the WMP site could stay as is.
- bringing the wmp/doc contents to the LEX, I would collect all the separate props and buildings (which have also building-as-props version in the DATs) into 2-3 heavy megaprop packs. I spent quite some time to figure it out the different small prop and texture sets coming along with different uploads while I was able to sort thing out for my own back-up collection. But further investigations showed that some of the uploaded contents contain together the LOT, the UI and the model/prop files, but others just lot sets and the corresponding props/models were put into separate packs. If it's not against anybody's will, I would separate the prop/model files from the DAT (best example for this is the WMP Abteibruecke (Cloister Bridge), which contains the bridge and additional props too), and place them to a mega prop pack with all the other model/prop sets. I see the pro and contra opinions, why is somebody supposed to download and install a 50+ mb megaprop pack for just 1 lot. Well the WMP site is still existing and we can link both the new megaprop pack (from LEX) and the separate version from the WMP site and the player can decide. But if lotters (well they are a just about to be extincted species) what to work with it, it's way easier and way easier to link as a dependency than couple of separate prop or textures sets.
Anyway I guess, the LEX admins would be able to create a dedicated custodian WMP account on LEX and all the stuffs can go there
- On the STEX now we have PLEX legacy group, and SC4 Polska legacy group and soon there will be a mixed legacy group for mostly lost far-eastern contents etc... So we can create a separate place for the WMP stuffs. Well partially actually the "tag"s are doing this job pretty well.
- about the gmax files. It depends on the size of them. They could be uploaded to the LEX and STEX as well, or linked to a googledrive/drop box etc... account. But it would be really useful for sure if we have those files.

- Tyberius
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: fantozzi on April 29, 2019, 12:36:17 AM

- bringing the wmp/doc contents to the LEX, I would collect all the separate props and buildings (which have also building-as-props version in the DATs) into 2-3 heavy megaprop packs. I spent quite some time to figure it out the different small prop and texture sets coming along with different uploads while I was able to sort thing out for my own back-up collection. But further investigations showed that some of the uploaded contents contain together the LOT, the UI and the model/prop files, but others just lot sets and the corresponding props/models were put into separate packs. If it's not against anybody's will, I would separate the prop/model files from the DAT (best example for this is the WMP Abteibruecke (Cloister Bridge), which contains the bridge and additional props too), and place them to a mega prop pack with all the other model/prop sets. I see the pro and contra opinions, why is somebody supposed to download and install a 50+ mb megaprop pack for just 1 lot. Well the WMP site is still existing and we can link both the new megaprop pack (from LEX) and the separate version from the WMP site and the player can decide. But if lotters (well they are a just about to be extincted species) what to work with it, it's way easier and way easier to link as a dependency than couple of separate prop or textures sets.

- Tyberius

With WMP props it's the same as with Girafe trees or Simmer2 props. It may take a while but after a few years of playing you'll end up with having all of them in your plugin folder.

To me this is progress as the DocRohrlach's small props was always packed related to his own projects into small packs, sometimes 10, 15 props only - for reuse this is always difficult. One could hope, collected in mega packs the wmp content gets more use amongst lotters.

If you have to sort content for creating  those mega packs, try to make them according to "SC4 topics". Which can be f.e. "rural", "urban streets", "industry", "agriculture", "seaport", "parks". Basically to sort content  the same way Maxis did with the GUI and the structure there.

For me, as a lotter, it's not important if the prop pack is 30 MB or 100 MB - but it's pita if you have to scroll through 100 train cars just to find one tree. So pack with a general SC$ related "theme" are the best to use imo. But you are a lotter too and will know this.

Thank you for all the work you put in our beloved game and to foster the content of passed away members  &apls  :thumbsup: &apls
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on February 01, 2020, 11:22:59 AM
Hi All,

Apologise for the silence on this matter, I've been happy to continue hosting these sites - so didn't see the need to rock the boat and have the content moved.

However, things are changing at my end and we need to make a decision on the future of the WMP content.
I have just renewed the domain names for another 2 years, so they are not going to disappear overnight.

But, I am in the process of changing my main company websites to WordPress as they all need updating and I do not have the knowledge to do what I need in ASP.
This will mean my current "windows" hosting package will finish in March and the current WMP site is not compatible with my new hosting package.

So, any suggestions on how you (the SC4 community) would like to deal with this??
if somebody has a windows hosting package I could transfer everything over, or could the site be converted to work on WordPress?

I'm open to ideas that either keeps everything in my possession or transfer everything to the community

I currently use ionos for hosting;
https://www.ionos.co.uk/hosting/windows-hosting#packages

 
Thank you

David
 
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on February 03, 2020, 05:26:35 AM
I have no idea about webhosting or coding, but if necessary, I can get the files sorted and uploaded to the LEX, under whichever account appropriate. Either the original uploader as listed on the WMP site, or a WMP team account can be created for all of it.

Of the 4 uploaders listed on the WMP page, I only know of rivit to still be active. So I'll need his permission before uploading his files to the LEX. I know he's using Google Drive to host some of his files currently.

I'll give Tarkus a chance to weight in, as he may have ideas about hosting and such. But I will begin downloading all available files from WMP to get things started, if it is decided to host the files on the LEX.

I see that the download pages serve as the ReadMe's for each file as well, so I will go ahead and save those too. That will help with proper descriptions for the download pages, and then with a few updates for the links, I can use the same html file as the ReadMe included with each upload.

I do believe that most items should be uploaded to the LEX as they are at WMP. But perhaps it would be better to combine the dependency packs into fewer uploads. This would make them easier to keep track of for anyone using the props or textures in new lot creations, as well as end-users.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Tyberius06 on February 03, 2020, 05:57:51 AM
to combine the dependency packs into fewer uploads. This would make them easier to keep track of for anyone using the props or textures in new lot creations, as well as end-users.

This was my proposal one year ago (few posts above). I've already organized all of Doc's creations on my end for my own use with a userfriendly folder-system (I think I sent the PM about this over at Simtropolis). Although I don't have the readme's in html format (or not  in every cases), I think I copied those into word/docx files. I also started organizing just the props into possible megapacks (and with that I took out the single props sets which were attached with the uploaded lots), but then I didn't move forward with the project.
Anyway.

- Tyberius
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on February 03, 2020, 10:18:38 PM
to combine the dependency packs into fewer uploads. This would make them easier to keep track of for anyone using the props or textures in new lot creations, as well as end-users.

This was my proposal one year ago (few posts above). I've already organized all of Doc's creations on my end for my own use with a userfriendly folder-system (I think I sent the PM about this over at Simtropolis). Although I don't have the readme's in html format (or not  in every cases), I think I copied those into word/docx files. I also started organizing just the props into possible megapacks (and with that I took out the single props sets which were attached with the uploaded lots), but then I didn't move forward with the project.
Anyway.

- Tyberius

I have the time, Tyberius. It will give me the chance to be useful. You already have the whole Polska thing going on. Anyway, it'll give me a chance to play with the dependency tracker.

The most time consuming part would likely be gathering the proper links for the PEG dependencies. 
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: catty on February 04, 2020, 04:20:22 AM
....The most time consuming part would likely be gathering the proper links for the PEG dependencies.

I went thru a fairly lengthy phrase of indexing all the SC4 exchanges, including SimPeg ... when I closed my website down those indexes were transferred over to the Simtropolis Omnibus, the one that probably has most of the PEG stuff in it is this one

https://community.simtropolis.com/omnibus/simcity-4/reference/catalog-index-paa-pzz-draft-only-v1-r403/

Both the simpeg and stex entries for the same plugin are in the index hopefully together but it depends if the name was the same on both sites, also was working on a list of the PLEX files that couldn't be found in the STEX

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/75265-plugins-missing-from-the-stex/

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on February 04, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
Thanks the replies and suggestions :thumbsup:

I'm happy for everything to be moved to the LEX and any readme files updated as needed - these have not been touched in years, so any non WMP links are probably no longer working.

I have all the source files for the website, so if it's easier I can distribute these.

Traffic to the site has been getting less and less, so it seams a lot of work to re-do the site as all that is needed is ability to download the files.

There are also the utility tools;
http://workingman-productions.co.uk/downloads/sc4t_downloads.asp

I'm not sure if these are even any use anymore - I did install them on my Win10 PC a while ago and they appeared to still work.


I'll help with anything if needed, but feel free to do what you think is best for this content

David
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: APSMS on February 04, 2020, 02:53:42 PM
I wish I knew more about webhosting, as I always feel like there's a little bit of history with the old website design/layout and the information contained within it.

Also I just don't like dead links, and those are really common these days on the internet what with all the image hosting sites closing and then the collapse or policy changes of a number of other popular hosting sites.

I would love to figure out how to keep the sites on the web even if all of the files are catalogued and uploaded to the LEX for longevity, and even though the WMP site doesn't have forums (so much history was lost with the collapse of SimPeg)
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on February 05, 2020, 01:00:14 AM
Links can always be updated, as long as the content is available somewhere.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on February 05, 2020, 12:35:07 PM
I would love to figure out how to keep the sites on the web even if all of the files are catalogued and uploaded to the LEX for longevity, and even though the WMP site doesn't have forums (so much history was lost with the collapse of SimPeg)

If somebody is willing to host the site (about 5 a month) then the whole website could just be transferred and continue as is.

Links can always be updated, as long as the content is available somewhere.

Yep, the readme files would just need updating.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on February 25, 2020, 02:50:13 PM
Just checking in to see if there has been anymore thoughts on this...

I think the LEX is the best way forward with an update to the various read me files

I've got a couple of weeks left on the hosting package, so we need to come up with a plan.


David
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on February 25, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
I've just finished immunotherapy treatment yesterday, so I dont completely trust myselff with anybody's files at the moment.

I will be able to get back to it in a couple days time though, and hopefully have it all sorted this weekend.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: APSMS on February 25, 2020, 04:48:19 PM
Hi David,

I also think the LEX is the best way forward at the moment, but if you can help walk me through the process, I would be glad to take over the hosting just for the sake of the archived website/web addresses as a sort of secondary backup.

-Absalom
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Tyberius06 on February 25, 2020, 04:55:51 PM
Hm... I was away for 2 weeks, but xxdita knows, and I already shared my thoughts here a year ago.
I organized and cleaned Doc's contents on my own use last year, and in many cases I updated the dependency links. I spent some time to put together MegaProp packs and also expanded the MegaTexture pack with the one remaining WMP Textures 10. What I haven't done, because I'm not sure about it, but it can be done relative easily, was extracting the inbuilt prop and model sets from uploads where the models and lot files were packed together. Honestly, I would do these "surgical extractions" (I think we are talking about 3-4 uploads) and I would separate the models and lot files. The remaining DAT would only contain the lot and related UI and other files, while all the model and prop examplars were about to go into one of the Prop Megapacks.
For archiving and back-up reasons somewhere at the LEX background storage could contain the original separate prop sets, as they were uploaded onto the WMP site. Basicly this is how we planned the BSC *.exe extranctions 1,5 years ago. The extracted folder based contents (with updated readmes) will go to the public LEX, and as a back-up we keep a copy of the *.exe files too.
Bringing these contents to the LEX is the best indeed, although when it will be happening, the STEX contents have to be updated as well, otherwise we will end up with multiple might be conflicting versions. I would hate that. I've been there, I'm still trying to root out the outdated BSC and SFBT contents from STEX and probably will push that forward in the near future.
I think (it's just an idea), the LEX could host all the lots and the newly organized megaprop packs, while on STEX I (or even xxdita with his rights) can update the contents and link back everything to the megaprop packs where it is necessary.
I still have a small amount of work with the Polska MegaProp Pack, but after that I can provide my packages to xxdita, who can decide in which form he wants to upload them to the LEX or if he wants to make any modifications what he sees necessary.

- Tyberius (Tibi)
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on February 26, 2020, 02:22:26 AM
Being from an era long passed, I'm still struggling a bit with the way things are now.

So please understand that I am now posting as a BSC Member. I'll switch hats a bit later in this post.

Any variations between BSC content on the LEX and any other fansite exist for either technical reasons or personal. The technical reasons may no longer be a problem, but I believe it would be a mistake to disregard the personal choices made by BSC team members in regards to their creations. It was a conscious decision for the content on the LEX to be updated as needed, and a conscious decision for other sites not to receive those same updates, if that's the case.

SC4D and the LEX has been home for the BSC since its creation, and will continue to be as long as Tarkus allows it. We don't need to rehash the politics of old to respect what it meant to those that were involved.

With my new buttons on the STEX I can certainly fix major issues with BSC uploads, as I know full well no BSC member ever intended their works to cause problems. I am proud to act as BSC Custodian in that regard.

What I won't be doing is fighting outdated content of any kind while it has already been fixed on the LEX. Even if I could take on the STEX itself, outdated files still exist in the dvd's still being offered. So that is a losing battle that I will have no part in.

Whatever other hats I may wear in this community, BSC member and LEX Admin will always come first. I will defer to more senior BSC members should they voice their opinions concerning such things, but these are mine.

Changing hats now:
As a LEX Admin, I will do my absolute best to honor the choices Doc made with his files, while making sure they are in line with LEX standards. Consolidating prop and texture packs seems to be in line with his methods. I believe that loose props included with lots would also fall into this category. But if such props are already consolidated into dat files with these lots, then I have to believe that is as Doc wanted it to be. Worst case scenario is that the lot becomes a required dependency for future downloads using the prop in question. Since that has already been the case for some time and there is no technical objection that I'm aware of, I think these files should be kept as they are in this regard.

We do now need to also make sure that all of these files are MAC compatible before putting them on the LEX. That's a new headache that's popped up this past week, as some files cause CTD's on the new MAC 64bit version, but luckily it only takes a few seconds per file to check and fix if necessary. None of Doc's files have been reported yet, but it is still something to check.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Tyberius06 on February 26, 2020, 06:35:52 AM
Nate, I replied in PM regarding the BSC-LEX-STEX contents.

Changing hats now:
As a LEX Admin, I will do my absolute best to honor the choices Doc made with his files, while making sure they are in line with LEX standards. Consolidating prop and texture packs seems to be in line with his methods. I believe that loose props included with lots would also fall into this category. But if such props are already consolidated into dat files with these lots, then I have to believe that is as Doc wanted it to be. Worst case scenario is that the lot becomes a required dependency for future downloads using the prop in question. Since that has already been the case for some time and there is no technical objection that I'm aware of, I think these files should be kept as they are in this regard.

I can live with it, that's why I didn't move forward on that matter. It makes things a bit easier after all.

We do now need to also make sure that all of these files are MAC compatible before putting them on the LEX. That's a new headache that's popped up this past week, as some files cause CTD's on the new MAC 64bit version, but luckily it only takes a few seconds per file to check and fix if necessary. None of Doc's files have been reported yet, but it is still something to check.

Oh yeah, I've heard about it. Ok, so I can provide the organized WMP stuffs, even the megaprop packs as I mentioned before (and if you want to reorganize them I can share the organized single building and prop packs). I don't do any other changes. But after we/you rehost the files on LEX, then I'm gonna update the STEX versions, because otherwise people will get confused, frustrated etc... and questions will be asked, what I don't want to answere to... :)
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on February 26, 2020, 09:43:35 AM
As long as there are no objections from djp, I have no issues with Doc's works being updated on the STEX as well.

But for the most part, I expect this to be strictly an organizational update, with very few changes made to the original content, if any. As such, it should not be necessary for users that already have the files installed to update them.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on February 26, 2020, 02:23:29 PM
Thanks all for the replies.

As I have mentioned before, I have just been the guardian for Doc's work - but handing control to the community will be the best solution moving forward

As long as there are no objections from djp, I have no issues with Doc's works being updated on the STEX as well.

I have no issues at all with this - I think it would be best to have the same versions available on both exchanges

Ok, so I can provide the organized WMP stuffs, even the megaprop packs as I mentioned before (and if you want to reorganize them I can share the organized single building and prop packs). I don't do any other changes. But after we/you rehost the files on LEX, then I'm gonna update the STEX versions, because otherwise people will get confused, frustrated etc... and questions will be asked, what I don't want to answere to... :)

sounds the best way forward as you have already started reorganising things

Hi David,

but if you can help walk me through the process, I would be glad to take over the hosting just for the sake of the archived website/web addresses as a sort of secondary backup.

-Absalom
I can definitely guide you with this if nobody has any objections
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on February 26, 2020, 06:05:15 PM
I support whatever decision you make on the matter, David.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on February 27, 2020, 09:03:26 AM
I support whatever decision you make on the matter, David.

OK, my main issue with still having the content hosted on the WMP domain would be ending up with different versions of the files being available if the LEX/STEX get updated.

Another option I have thought of would be to keep the domain name and I can set-up a WordPress account with every existing page set as a re-direct to the equivalent files on the LEX - this way if other plugins have links to the existing pages in the readme they will still end up being linked to the file they need.
This would be quite straight forward to do.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Tyberius06 on February 27, 2020, 10:03:21 AM
Hi,

@David:
As far as I know, the main differences would be the unified folder structure (cleaned up from possible duplicates, specially duplicates of the WMP Dummies file) and the megapacks instead of the single prop packs. Although I keep the single prop packs too (just organize them according to this unified folder structure) on my end for back-up, just in case. The actual contents (and specially the TGIs for the inner contents) won't be changed at all. The only reason of changing anything deeper on them would be, if some of them turned up broken suddenly (well, in the case of the new MAC stuffs), then they need to be fixed. But this is just, how I see at this moment. (I think the best, if I send a link with the organized stuffs and you can see what I'm talking about.)


Another option I have thought of would be to keep the domain name and I can set-up a WordPress account with every existing page set as a re-direct to the equivalent files on the LEX - this way if other plugins have links to the existing pages in the readme they will still end up being linked to the file they need.
This would be quite straight forward to do.

Well this is a good idea as well. I mean linking the old contents to the LEX versions. I know that one or two of the main dependencies which has an outdated version on STEX, CasperVG or Cyclone managed to linked them back to the updated LEX version, so when folks click onto the download button, they will be re-directed to the updated LEX page.

- Tyberius
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on February 28, 2020, 09:29:23 AM
I think the best, if I send a link with the organized stuffs and you can see what I'm talking about
Please, his would be handy to see


Another option I have thought of would be to keep the domain name and I can set-up a WordPress account with every existing page set as a re-direct to the equivalent files on the LEX - this way if other plugins have links to the existing pages in the readme they will still end up being linked to the file they need.
This would be quite straight forward to do.

Well this is a good idea as well. I mean linking the old contents to the LEX versions. I know that one or two of the main dependencies which has an outdated version on STEX, CasperVG or Cyclone managed to linked them back to the updated LEX version, so when folks click onto the download button, they will be re-directed to the updated LEX page.

- Tyberius

OK, I can start adding re-direction links once everything is on the LEX

Cheers

David
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on February 28, 2020, 09:31:12 AM
I think the best, if I send a link with the organized stuffs and you can see what I'm talking about



Please, his would be handy to see


Another option I have thought of would be to keep the domain name and I can set-up a WordPress account with every existing page set as a re-direct to the equivalent files on the LEX - this way if other plugins have links to the existing pages in the readme they will still end up being linked to the file they need.
This would be quite straight forward to do.

Well this is a good idea as well. I mean linking the old contents to the LEX versions. I know that one or two of the main dependencies which has an outdated version on STEX, CasperVG or Cyclone managed to linked them back to the updated LEX version, so when folks click onto the download button, they will be re-directed to the updated LEX page.

- Tyberius

OK, I can start adding re-direction links once everything is on the LEX

Cheers

David
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on March 08, 2020, 10:54:34 AM
UPDATE...

My windows hosting as now expired, so the WMP website has now been taken down (hopefully temporarily)

I have transferred the Domain name to my new Hosting Package, but the old website is not compatible.
this will take 24-48 hours for the transfer to complete, I can then start to add re-directs to the files in the STEX/LEX.

I'll update again when I have more info

David
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on March 08, 2020, 06:19:56 PM
I have all the files downloaded. It's just a matter of organizing the packs in a way that makes sense. I should be able to start getting the packs uploaded this week.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Tyberius06 on March 09, 2020, 07:25:06 AM
@xxdita
I sent you PM via discord.
I started checking the WMP contents on STEX. There are two uploads, which actually run under Murimk's account, since he was the co-creator of those sets:
WMP Causeway Set (https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/26088-wmp-causeway-set/)
WMP Boardwalk (https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/26125-wmp-boardwalk/)

Those contain props and textures which are part of the proposed megaprop or (existing) megatexture packs. Anyhow they will get an update, when the mentioned pack will be uploaded.

- Tyberius

EDIT:
Whoops, I forgot something. Besides the wmp props, on the old site there were the RFY props too. I just realized it now, checking the STEX contents. So I think there should be a RFY Mega Prop pack too, because although pLynn's creations can be found on the STEX, but his prop dependencies are not there, they were on the WMP site only.


Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on March 09, 2020, 09:30:12 AM
I have all of the RFY props as well, so that shouldn't be a problem. I downloaded everything except Rivit's stuff. He's still active, so he can take care of his files as he chooses.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: djp on March 09, 2020, 02:07:45 PM
OK, I don't think this change to hosting the WMP website and re-directing all the links to the STEX/LEX is going to be a smooth as I had hoped.

Just today there have been over 300 file requests that have not been completed as the webpages have been unavailable.

So, what I am looking at doing is re-hosting the original website on a new Windows Hosting Package that I can get on offer for the first year (12 all in) - this will make the original site live again and all previous links to plugins and separate dependencies will work as before.

This will give others time to create the replacement plugin/dependency pages at SC4D and have a more structured/gradual change to WMP readme docs and other links to the files.

I can have this up and running in the next few days if you think it will help with the changes??

Thanks and apologise

David     
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on March 09, 2020, 06:28:04 PM
I don't really need the site running to work on the re-releases. I've downloaded each download page in full, along with the images. These will serve as the templates for ReadMe's that will be included in the new uploads.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Tyberius06 on March 09, 2020, 06:55:37 PM
Do you have the full pages for the RFY uploads? I have all the contents, but the readmes and the webarchive doesn't contain the images for those download pages. I organized the RFY megapack (the wmp megapacks are ready too, just need to double check them), so I can send them a bit later.
Also MRQS (3 polish themed uploads) creations don't need to be restored on LEX right now, because those are part of the SC4 Polska restoration project.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on March 11, 2020, 10:39:28 AM
I have the full pages of all downloads saved, aside from Rivit's works, which he will manage as he chooses.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Marggg on May 14, 2020, 03:59:44 PM
Hello guys. I was searching for WMP's sets and dependencies and this thread is the only thing that i have found. It seems that a lot of time has passed since this topic was created. Did you manage to come to some decision? If so, could you tell me where the files are now available? If not, let me help you somehow to speed up this process.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: Tyberius06 on May 22, 2020, 10:16:26 PM
Hi everyone!

After a few long months, I managed to put together and clean up the WMP packs and merged them into thematical Mega Packs. The following single prop packs/set have NOT been merged into any of the Mega Prop Packs, but they have been updated, some props were taken out and placed into the mega prop packs or added to an existing single prop pack. These prop packs currently still unavailable, they will be released with their lot sets in the following day/weeks:
- monorail models/props (v2) - it will be uploaded also with the lot set
- bridge models/props (v2) - it will be uploaded also with the lot set
- rowing props (v2) - it will be uploaded with the Rowing Club set
- tunnel props (v2) - it will be uploaded with the Tunnel lots too
- rfy viaducts (v2) - it will be uploaded with the updated RFY Rail Viaduct set.
- murimk-wmp causeway props - they will be uploaded with the updated Murimk-WMP Causeway Set.

Today/night the following mega packs have been uploaded to LEX (later they will be uploaded to the STEX as well):

WMP Mega Props vol. 01 - Misc General Props (https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3970)

WMP Mega Props vol. 02 - Misc Industrial Props (https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3971)

WMP Mega Props vol. 03 - Port Autority Ferry (https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3972)

WMP Mega Props vol. 04 - Port Autority Seawalls (https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3973)

WMP Mega Props vol. 05 - Railway Props (https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3974)

WMP Essentials v1.0 (https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3975)

WMP Mega Textures v1.02 (https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3976)

RFY Mega Props Vol. 01 (https://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=3977)

The props, models, textures, custom queries, UIs are mostly all DocRorlach's (WMP) and his associates' and pLynn's (RFY) work, the custom paths (as far as I know) Rivit's work.

For more information, read the attached readmes, and for sure everybody recommended to use the attached cleanitol files and remove the old single prop packs if they have. Those packs have been totally torn down and rebuilt for the mega packs.

Enjoy! The lot uploads are coming later, after they got updated.

- Tyberius
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: thingfishs on May 22, 2020, 10:54:59 PM
Thanks and congratulations!, I know it will have been a lot of work and is a fitting tribute to a significant ex-member of the community. Plus I can already see some things in there that will come in handy (I have a handful of stuff from their site, but didn't realise how much there was) Good job :thumbsup:

P.S. Look forward to the lots.
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: scoty on May 23, 2020, 02:47:14 AM
Yes yes yes, a big thank to you, for preserving these essential contributions. Nice work Tyberius!  &apls
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: AsimPika3172 on May 23, 2020, 03:02:54 AM
Way to go!!!!  &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls
Title: Re: Workingman Productions (WMP) & SC4Tools websites and content
Post by: xxdita on May 25, 2020, 05:17:14 PM
Thank you for putting in the time and effort on all of this, Tibi.