Sim City 4 Devotion Forums

SimCity 4 Devotion Custom Content Showcase => Network Addon Mod (NAM) => NAM Creations => Topic started by: memo on March 08, 2013, 11:09:54 AM

Title: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on March 08, 2013, 11:09:54 AM
Update December 20, 2013:

The El-Rail-Avenue and El-Rail-Road-4 networks are now available with the NAM 32 pre-release 1. There are still some gaps to fill regarding documentation – however, Ganaram (GDO29Anagram) made a video that shows how these new networks are used: [link] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ1D_Cm_gGM).




Update November 12, 2013:

The voting has closed. As none of the options got a significant majority, both of them have been implemented.

Results of the poll:

• Option 1: 44 votes
• Option 2: 33 votes

Voting closed: March 15, 2013




The original post:

Currently, there is some discussion about a possible implementation of El-Rail over Avenue or Road-4. Before starting to implement anything you don't like, we would like to ask for your opinion. Please vote for the option you would like to have in the game. I would highly welcome any thoughts about pros and cons.

Specifically if you vote for option 1, please explain how you envision the setup of diagonal El-Rail-over-Avenue, and how to fill the space below the tracks.

Option 2 requires some interaction with the NWM, but not too much.

Thank you for your participation. Feel free to express other aspects, too.



Option 1: El-Rail over Avenue.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/405ab02ea054b82dccecedf2867aa83a.jpg)


Option 2: El-Rail over Road-4.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/b367e4184d8e792d4cdccdaa35fb1a57.jpg)

(These are prototypes.)
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: rooker1 on March 08, 2013, 11:50:54 AM
This has just made my day! ()stsfd()
You have my attention in either way you go.   I prefer El-Rail over Road-4, reminds me very much of Chicago and looks more realistic.  El-Rail over Avenue, looks okay and I can see us trying to place buildings under the lines.  In both circumstances I can see some really interesting possibilities for stations.

Robin :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: MandelSoft on March 08, 2013, 11:58:20 AM
I'd go for option 1, since I only know those setups as a reference. Also, RD-4 is virtually not present in the Netherlands, because it's considered to be unsafe.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: rooker1 on March 08, 2013, 12:02:11 PM
EL in Chicago....
(http://indospectrum.com/images/chicago-3/cd033_31may04_under_el.jpg)

(http://csharpchicago.com/images/ChicagoEl1.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: art128 on March 08, 2013, 12:10:01 PM
I don't vote for the moment, I need to make my decision.. EDIT - voted for Avenue

But for option A, isn't it possible to make some sort of allay / parks / parking just like the Parisian Aerial metro?

(http://uppix.net/c/3/1/16de403bc8941f6e6f570eab38739.jpg)

Sometime there are basketball parks, other time just walkway or these parking.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: rooker1 on March 08, 2013, 12:22:00 PM
Oh, I like Arthur's pictures too.  This is too exciting for me....
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: metarvo on March 08, 2013, 01:23:20 PM
I have placed a tie on the tracks with a vote for Option 1.  Realistically, the width of diagonal AVE-4 is comparable (but not identical) to that of diagonal RD-4, unless the AVE-4 is divided ala GLR-in-AVE-4.  So, I imagine the implementation of diagonals would be similar for both.  It may just be a pipe dream, but I suggest that the ELR be over the center of the diagonal AVE-4.  Since a diagonal AVE-4 lacks any appreciable median space (much like the RD-4), it would almost certainly require the wide pylons shown in the Option 2 prototype picture.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kitsune on March 08, 2013, 06:01:53 PM
I prefer el-rail over AVE-4 (isnt that the new name now-a-days? :))... mostly because I find myself all to often doing the owr-2 - el rail - owr-2 routine over and over again.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Durfsurn on March 08, 2013, 07:26:35 PM
Over AVE and that levels it again to 13 votes each. I think i would use it more as i use ave more than rd-4
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: TheAttendee on March 08, 2013, 07:28:20 PM
I really like the look of the RD4, but I'd imagine myself using the AVE4 version more. Tough choice, but I went with RD4 since it looks the most realistic.

Why not do both? (I mean eventually, of course)
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Swordmaster on March 08, 2013, 07:47:19 PM
Because that's a lot of work (primarily), it means a bigger NAM, more networks, more IIDs used. It's no problem for something that's badly needed but there need to be limits somewhere. Let's just hope 50-50 is not the final vote outcome :D

I really like the RD-4 setup, because RD-4 is the more urban of the two, and EL rail is urban. AVE-4 feels more like a suburban network to me. And maybe it's just me but I like it a lot that you see those support beams.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Wiimeiser on March 08, 2013, 08:01:43 PM
They're both fine. Do them both.

If you have to do one first, then the avenue, as we already have GLR-in-AVE...
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: kassarc16 on March 08, 2013, 11:51:54 PM
Either one, though if I had to choose, RD-4 (it'd give me a chance to use it, as I usually stick with AVEs).
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Patricius Maximus on March 09, 2013, 01:04:42 PM
I'd be fine with either one, but I'd prefer Elevated Rail over AVE-4 rather than RD-4. I think it looks more balanced, and you can do things with the median that you can't do with a RD-4, such as plants, stations, and/or parking lots. For diagonal El-Rail over AVE-4 I would envision something very similar to the current diagonal GLR-in-Avenue. For filling the median I would prefer to have a default median similar to normal AVE-4's, and have parking spaces as an additional option.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Piteri on March 09, 2013, 01:16:07 PM
Por que no Los dos?

But if I had to choose I'd choose RD-4 because I use way more road 4 in my cities.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Moonraker0 on March 09, 2013, 02:11:41 PM
Although it's not an option, I'd personally prefer monorail in the AVE-4's median; monorails seem to often be built in avenue medians like that.  However, I suppose I prefer the AVE-4 implementation of elevated rail; it just seems to be a good idea to have the pylons in the median.  Regarding the diagonals, I think it would have to be like what Metarvo said, with the wide pylons over the diagonals.  Anyway, I'm really looking forward to being able to use this.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Andreas on March 09, 2013, 05:01:43 PM
Although it's not an option, I'd personally prefer monorail in the AVE-4's median; monorails seem to often be built in avenue medians like that.

Yeah, that was exactly my thought when I saw those pictures. :) Monorail doesn't seem to have that many fans in the game, and there's just a handful of monorail station BATs available, but I always liked it as fast, futuristic transportation system.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on March 11, 2013, 06:01:13 AM
Robin, I like your enthusiasm. ;D I had Chicago's El in mind as well, when I came up with the Road-4 variant.

However, by now I know that Option 1 apparently exists in RL too.

The current vote (33-23) is not too obvious and I haven't made my decision yet.

Yesterday, I worked out the details of implementation, and I can say it's going to be 'interesting' – both the implementation and the end product. It's going to make use of everything(!) I know about transit modding in SC4 (except for DBE trickery), and will be essentially different from El-Rail-over-Road.

But for option A, isn't it possible to make some sort of allay / parks / parking just like the Parisian Aerial metro?

(http://uppix.net/c/3/1/16de403bc8941f6e6f570eab38739.jpg)

That would look good indeed. I will have to see whether it is feasible.

I have placed a tie on the tracks with a vote for Option 1.  Realistically, the width of diagonal AVE-4 is comparable (but not identical) to that of diagonal RD-4, unless the AVE-4 is divided ala GLR-in-AVE-4.

That's exactly the point of the matter. I have also considered the possibility of a divided diagonal like on Tram-in-Avenue when it comes to Option 1, so as to distinguish from Option 2. If somewhere in the future the missing Option were implemented as well eventually, the different diagonals would not be rendered superfluous.

Although it's not an option, I'd personally prefer monorail in the AVE-4's median; monorails seem to often be built in avenue medians like that.

I like this idea too, but I prefer to extend the functionality and usability of El-Rail-over-Road-networks in the first place, as the groundwork is already in place.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: noahclem on March 11, 2013, 06:17:59 AM
The road option got my vote--as Willy mentions it's got a much more urban look. In a perfect world it'd be nice to have parking on the side of the road where the shoulders/bikepaths/whatever are now, which would be even better if parked cars were T21ed in. I'm not sure where the best place for the supports would be. Robin's Chicago pic has a good look but it's a real hassle for driving. Maybe put the supports between the parking/shoulder and the traffic lanes? Just a couple of my thoughts. Exciting project  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: metarvo on March 11, 2013, 08:53:28 AM
If the divided diagonal route is taken, then it would make more sense IMO to have narrow pylons in the median as the wide pylons shown for Option 2 would no longer be wide enough.  The median could then be used for greenery, or maybe parking in ultra dense areas.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: rooker1 on March 11, 2013, 09:00:04 AM
Either way you go, I be happy as this is a continuation of raised EL, which I really like using.
I'll be following this very closely.

Robin
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Diggis on March 11, 2013, 09:19:49 AM
Either way you go, I be happy as this is a continuation of raised EL, which I really like using.
I'll be following this very closely.

Robin

Raised EL...?  ::)
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: rooker1 on March 11, 2013, 09:27:11 AM
lol, you know what I meant.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: mike3775 on March 11, 2013, 09:35:11 AM
I voted for Avenue, but wouldn't mind if it road version
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: JoeST on March 11, 2013, 10:26:29 AM
Either way you go, I be happy as this is a continuation of raised EL, which I really like using.
I'll be following this very closely.

Robin

Raised EL...?  ::)
He must be high :P
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: rooker1 on March 11, 2013, 10:30:09 AM
Not high, just very excited about this project.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: RickD on March 11, 2013, 10:36:43 AM
How long will the vote be open? It is a tough decision and I need to think about it some more.  :satisfied:
Never mind, I just realized the answer is given under the poll.  ::)

But no matter how the vote turns out, I am very excited by this new project. It is something I have been dreaming about since a long time.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: gn_leugim on March 11, 2013, 04:31:04 PM
both would be good. but I think I go for the Rd-4.

the way the ave is done is somehow quite dangerous, having the pylons so near to the central line, which is usually where people go faster.

On the other hand, on Rd4, you have those huge and thick pylons "arching" and hovering just to support a fraction of the real width, and it feels a bit heavy to look at. Maybe some wider tracks (due to some aesthetic components) could make it more pleasant to look at.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on March 11, 2013, 04:57:07 PM
the way the ave is done is somehow quite dangerous, having the pylons so near to the central line, which is usually where people go faster.

For the avenue, I am considering to replace the supports by a "mono pillar" which will leave more space between the pylon and the inner lane. ;)

Quote
On the other hand, on Rd4, you have those huge and thick pylons "arching" and hovering just to support a fraction of the real width, and it feels a bit heavy to look at. Maybe some wider tracks (due to some aesthetic components) could make it more pleasant to look at.

The tracks have to be kept, in order to be able to re-use existing models and to be consistent with the rest of El-Rail. Though, I have to admit that the tracks in Robin's picture look wider.

There will however be a piece without supports which makes the look less heavy, perhaps. Moreover, I plan to add the supports as props, so that they can be easily replaced by alternatives.


I'm not sure where the best place for the supports would be. Robin's Chicago pic has a good look but it's a real hassle for driving. Maybe put the supports between the parking/shoulder and the traffic lanes?

I agree with that. The supports are definitely not going to be placed between the traffic lanes like on Robin's picture, but I am not sure where to place them either. On the sidewalk or on the "bike/parking lane". This greatly depends on the props on the street side which I haven't planned much yet.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Vlasky on March 11, 2013, 05:51:53 PM
I'd go with option 1. I would like to see it with no pavers in betweeen, and wouldn't mess around too much with supporting pillars to make it consistent with the rest of el rail over road.

However, if you'd like to go with something more realistic, I'd like to offer my support in modelling those. Personally, I'd like to see something like this in game and would lean toward that kind of solution:  http://bit.ly/13Q6HIx (ftp://bit.ly/13Q6HIx)
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Andreas on March 11, 2013, 06:05:54 PM
Either way you go, I be happy as this is a continuation of raised EL, which I really like using.
I'll be following this very closely.

Robin

Raised EL...?  ::)

What? We do have high el-rail puzzle pieces, you know...? :D
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: RickD on March 12, 2013, 06:22:38 AM
After a quick trip to Chicago* I decided for the RD-4 version. I like the dense look of it.


*in streetview  :P
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: gn_leugim on March 12, 2013, 08:25:07 AM
both ideas will surely make it look better ;)
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Diggis on March 12, 2013, 08:39:03 AM
Either way you go, I be happy as this is a continuation of raised EL, which I really like using.
I'll be following this very closely.

Robin

Raised EL...?  ::)

What? We do have high el-rail puzzle pieces, you know...? :D

We do...  &ops I really need to look past the SAM some time. It's all I ever use from NAM.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: TJ1 on March 15, 2013, 01:22:05 PM
On the el rail over regular avenue it would be better to have an option of 4 tracks instead of just 2. 2 tracks on the left side of the avenue and 2 tracks on the right side of the avenue. It would be easy for transitions as well don't you think.??
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: MandelSoft on March 15, 2013, 05:06:09 PM
^^ I would call that overkill, and besides, how is that going to make tranistions easier? I can only imagine it makes things harder..
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on March 15, 2013, 06:37:04 PM
On the el rail over regular avenue it would be better to have an option of 4 tracks instead of just 2. 2 tracks on the left side of the avenue and 2 tracks on the right side of the avenue. It would be easy for transitions as well don't you think.??

I have actually considered something similar as well:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/40a9dbba80afd5cfd75866869f3e59e4.jpg)

It would probably have been easier to implement this because the existing models could have been re-used without many modifications. However, this idea was rejected already some time ago, as it doesn't look quite pleasing nor realistic. A symmetrical approach definitely has some pros that are not negligible.




The voting is closed now. Thanks, everyone, for the great participation. It helps making my decision a lot. I am sure it was worth it as you might eventually get both options. No promises though, as I haven't even started to implement anything, but prototypes.

Meanwhile, since usual sidewalks are not possible on these, I have been experimenting with sidewalk-props that are added as T21. I am very pleased with the outcome.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/2f61bdfdc73c4503b4882a509a4a003e.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: metarvo on March 15, 2013, 09:27:49 PM
So, AVE-4 it is.  :)  The second one will be fine, as long as the pylons don't jut out into the traffic lanes.  If you ended up choosing that first one, though, you would have people trying to make an ELR-over-OWR or something like that.  $%Grinno$%  Not to mention that it would be near unworkable for diagonals unless it was essentially an ELR-over-OWR coupled with a normal OWR in a dual setup of some sort.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on March 16, 2013, 01:08:52 AM
The second one will be fine, as long as the pylons don't jut out into the traffic lanes.

Well, in RL they often do a little bit, about as much as is shown in the picture above.

As for the narrow sidewalks, RTMT has had to work with worse than that.  I think we can get full standard stations in there, with just a little overhang for some of the bus shelters.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on March 16, 2013, 06:06:57 AM
Metarvo, indeed, if there was something like El-Rail-over-OWR, you could replicate that layout, which is why El-Rail-over-Ave should look different than that. ;)


As for the narrow sidewalks, RTMT has had to work with worse than that.  I think we can get full standard stations in there, with just a little overhang for some of the bus shelters.

Could you please explain this to me. I don't recognize the connection between the sidewalks and RTMT, currently. $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Swordmaster on March 16, 2013, 04:09:59 PM
I'd go with option 1. I would like to see it with no pavers in betweeen, and wouldn't mess around too much with supporting pillars to make it consistent with the rest of el rail over road.

However, if you'd like to go with something more realistic, I'd like to offer my support in modelling those. Personally, I'd like to see something like this in game and would lean toward that kind of solution:  http://bit.ly/13Q6HIx (http://bit.ly/13Q6HIx)

It would be great to have more transit modelers, especially a talented one like you. However, keep in mind transit models have a maximum polygon count that's much lower than normal BATs, so something like the EL on Broadway will be very tough to represent.

(Note: you need to use URL instead of FTP in the bbcode.)


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on March 17, 2013, 04:27:42 AM
As for the narrow sidewalks, RTMT has had to work with worse than that.  I think we can get full standard stations in there, with just a little overhang for some of the bus shelters.

Could you please explain this to me. I don't recognize the connection between the sidewalks and RTMT, currently. $%Grinno$%

Well, the sidewalks are where all the RTMT props go.  If they're too narrow, there's not room for the major props, such as the bus shelters and the subway stairs.  We ran up against this in some of the NWM networks.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on March 17, 2013, 07:31:29 AM
Oh, that's what you were talking about. I should have made clearer the fact that the sidewalks themselves are props on these puzzle pieces rather than base textures. The good news is that I managed to make them slop-friendly – thanks to BuddyBud – and wealth-dependent.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/be1c881fa6f9f8347b8195a4219be54a.jpg)

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/bb0aa9c014c6184b50c72e0df189542a.jpg)


Personally, I'd like to see something like this in game and would lean toward that kind of solution:  http://bit.ly/13Q6HIx (http://bit.ly/13Q6HIx)

I was puzzled when I noticed that 10 meters further (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=W+125th+St,+New+York,+NY,+United+States&hl=en&ll=40.816353,-73.957919&spn=0.000308,0.000561&sll=39.740986,-74.157715&sspn=9.575225,30.014648&oq=125th&t=h&hnear=W+125th+St,+New+York&layer=c&cbll=40.816353,-73.957919&panoid=636n4JUnzAzuLWfShPLBQw&cbp=12,50.24,,0,-8.48&z=21) those pylons have suddenly turned teal. :P

For the time being, I am going to stick with something that blends in with the existing network types. The pylons can be replaced easy enough, later on. I am sure these would look quite pretty.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: gn_leugim on April 05, 2013, 04:25:28 AM
it looks nice, i'm glad you considered the "textures" and their wealth too. on a side not, what a ride must be down hill on that rails XD
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on April 30, 2013, 03:19:43 AM
on a side not, what a ride must be down hill on that rails XD

Hehe, at least it is possible in principle. ;)




During the last weeks, I have been very busy and did not have any chance to continue this project. Now, I resumed and completed the modeling - after redoing some of the models three or four times until I was pleased. There's more to come on the weekend.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/82fddb9dcfeaa1bf7ad6158423f21056.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: RickD on April 30, 2013, 03:33:13 AM
It looks spectacular!   &apls
I hope there will be a GLR in AVE to El-Rail over Ave transition piece.  ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: rooker1 on April 30, 2013, 05:06:34 AM
This does look very impressive. Great work!

Robin
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: ivo_su on April 30, 2013, 06:07:39 AM
I totally agree that this is a really impressive project. Concept, design and implementation are very high level. My only request to you is a memo if you can replace those piles with beautiful and more volume cylindrical. That should not be too difficult if you have the appropriate models of props. I guess with T'21 mod would become perfect, right?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Gugu3 on April 30, 2013, 09:54:38 AM
Exciting stuff!!! &aplsgreat work!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: gn_leugim on April 30, 2013, 05:41:14 PM
so far, so (very) good  &apls
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on May 05, 2013, 06:01:46 PM
I hope there will be a GLR in AVE to El-Rail over Ave transition piece.  ;)

This is definitely on my list. ;)

My only request to you is a memo if you can replace those piles with beautiful and more volume cylindrical. That should not be too difficult if you have the appropriate models of props. I guess with T'21 mod would become perfect, right?

Indeed, it is quite easy to replace the models. However, I will keep the default pylons for the time being because they fit to the rest of the El-Rail tracks.



Thanks for your replies. As promised I have more to show now.

(click)
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/748c8f99d86dedb8af30eafc99fb37b6.jpg)

These are little monsters and caused me quite a headache. :'(
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/9c432570e70121c06c46e1baf4bff694.jpg)

They are not functional yet, because the paths are still missing, which still means a lot of work.

Any suggestions as to where the pylons should be placed, ideally?

Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on May 05, 2013, 07:06:56 PM
These are little monsters and caused me quite a headache. :'(
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/9c432570e70121c06c46e1baf4bff694.jpg)

Oh, but the Sims are going to have so much fun traveling around and around on them. ;D

Quote
Any suggestions as to where the pylons should be placed, ideally?

Well, to look realistic, and also to resemble RL, it would seem that having the pylons right at the intersections, for whichever of the two network styles your using, would make the most sense.  For something like the upper left corner, making the supports extra wide and on both sides of the intersection, joining in a single support just under or slightly beyond the track should do it.

For the lower right corner, a wider-type pylon starting in the center lane and going out to meet the el rail would seem to make sense.  These would have to be on both sides of the intersection, and the two structures would meet with a single support just under or slightly beyond the track.  Or the method used in the previous paragraph would work equally well and look fine, and would be good if you wanted to limit your number of support structures (which you probably do).

For the four-way intersection such as at the bottom of the picture, using the wide-style supports on all four corners of the intersection, with each support sharing a pylon with its neighbor, should work out well.  The three-way intersections would have a three-way version of this.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on May 06, 2013, 07:38:34 AM
Thanks for the quick response, Steve. If I understood you correctly, this is what you suggest:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/bcf36947b6fa8fdc9debc860ee42dfb7.jpg)
(1)

I thought the same, but the following slightly rotated option comes to mind as well:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/4bb2c709eae1840b91038192c753a1fc.jpg)
(2)

This one would look interesting, too:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/cd5c24b7fa2d2181e909fe7eb5315d03.jpg)
(3)

For the three- and four-way intersections, – opposed to your suggestion – this is what I had in mind:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/e065be397b3cecc7674305e1f35623c8.jpg)
(4)

It's the same as yours for the RD-4, but differs for the Avenue-type, because the Avenue-pylons would have to be ultra-wide.

Also, in the first picture of my previous post, would you similarly place pylons directly next to the 2x2 tile intersections? It would be contrary to the way Maxis positioned the pylons, though, but the elevated heavy-rail pieces and alternate el-rail already have a similar look.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on May 06, 2013, 08:43:40 PM
Thanks for the quick response, Steve. If I understood you correctly, this is what you suggest...

Yes, that's basically it.

Quote
I thought the same, but the following slightly rotated option comes to mind as well...

You generally don't see these in RL, though.  I think one of the reasons for that is that the straight version supports a bigger cross section of the track, thereby providing more support.

Quote
This one would look interesting, too:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/cd5c24b7fa2d2181e909fe7eb5315d03.jpg)
(3)

Yes, radial supports are not uncommon in a situation like this.  But for symmetry, and to add a little more support on the curve, I would suggest a second support, originating at the same point at the lower left, but then going to the corresponding point on the right.  This type of dual radial support is fairly common.

Quote
For the three- and four-way intersections, – opposed to your suggestion – this is what I had in mind:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/e065be397b3cecc7674305e1f35623c8.jpg)
(4)

It's the same as yours for the RD-4, but differs for the Avenue-type, because the Avenue-pylons would have to be ultra-wide.

The problem with this arrangement is that you've got a whole lot of track with very little support.  I would take the support you have on the left and move it a little to the right so that it's inside the inner tile, and then I would make it even a little longer.  Yes, it's ultra-wide then, but I think this type of intersection calls for that.  I would then do the same with the avenue support, and then duplicate this on the other two sides, with the supports meeting up in each corner.  Not only do you have much better support for your el rail, but the supports are perfectly symmetrical, in the form of a square, and the same layout can be used regardless of whether you have an avenue or an RD-4 underneath, or even a combination, as you display.  The three-way intersections would look the same, except with the supports only on three sides.  The supports really should be dictated primarily by the rail load, and only secondarily by the type of road.

Considering the large of amount of track in that intersection, you might want to consider an 'X' support joining the four corner pylons I suggested and crossing in the center.  We don't want to take risks with our Sims! $%Grinno$%

Quote
Also, in the first picture of my previous post, would you similarly place pylons directly next to the 2x2 tile intersections? It would be contrary to the way Maxis positioned the pylons, though, but the elevated heavy-rail pieces and alternate el-rail already have a similar look.

Yes, I think that this would make more sense, and it would look better when combined with the support for intersections that we've been talking about.  That would also mean that in picture (3) above, if you follow my advice, you would have straight supports right at the tile boundary in addition to the two radial supports.  This is not uncommon, as curves do tend to need extra support.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on May 07, 2013, 09:28:44 AM
So you say that (2) is very uncommon in RL, but (3) is common? Both of them are kind of radially. And actually, I was in favour of (2) because, to me, it looks most stable without an unnecessary large accumulation of pylons. ;D

Yes, radial supports are not uncommon in a situation like this.  But for symmetry, and to add a little more support on the curve, I would suggest a second support, originating at the same point at the lower left, but then going to the corresponding point on the right.  This type of dual radial support is fairly common.

This is not possible in the depicted situation because one of the networks is RD-4. The support would end up in the middle of the street - imagine the invisible intersections. ;) A single wide 45 degree pylon could work, though.

Regarding the three- and four-way intersections, your reasoning is convincing. Let's hope that the supports don't end up directly in front of the pedestrian crossings.

I will need further advice when it comes to intersections with El-Rail-Road-2. ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: noahclem on May 07, 2013, 05:21:30 PM
I have to apologize for not posting before; I keep viewing and thinking here without speaking my mind. Basically I agree with Steve's ideas as a nice way to implement things without having to do a bunch of extra work--but if you're interested in the angled pieces, Markus, they would definitely be nicer. as to how many support pieces an elevated rail network over "avenue" needs I wouldn't be very qualified to answer (though I have lived in Chicago). To be honest, I kind of like the idea of support pieces in the middle of the road (between lanes). It's not very nice to drive on such roads but they definitely have character ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on May 07, 2013, 10:12:16 PM
So you say that (2) is very uncommon in RL, but (3) is common?

Yes.

Quote
Both of them are kind of radially. And actually, I was in favour of (2) because, to me, it looks most stable without an unnecessary large accumulation of pylons. ;D

Use Google Earth to look at the for corners of the Chicago Loop.  (It runs along the rectangle created by Wabash, Lake, Wells, and Van Buren streets.)  Be sure to have the "Photorealistic" view turned on.  First of all, notice how sharp those turns are.  They're just as sharp as the 90 degree turns in SC4.  (I can still hear those wheels screeching now.)  Now look at the supports right before the turn.  They're completely orthogonal.  The supports under the intersections and turns themselves are slightly different than what I proposed, but if you'll look closely, you'll see that they're custom-built for each intersection.  You probably don't want to do that. $%Grinno$%

Quote
Both of them are kind of radially. And actually, I was in favour of (2) because, to me, it looks most stable without an unnecessary large accumulation of pylons. ;D

Yes, radial supports are not uncommon in a situation like this.  But for symmetry, and to add a little more support on the curve, I would suggest a second support, originating at the same point at the lower left, but then going to the corresponding point on the right.  This type of dual radial support is fairly common.

This is not possible in the depicted situation because one of the networks is RD-4. The support would end up in the middle of the street - imagine the invisible intersections. ;) A single wide 45 degree pylon could work, though.

I think you misunderstood what I was proposing.  Here's a rough picture:

(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8149/elrail.jpg)

That has pushed my drawing skills to the limit, so it doesn't show the orthogonal supports at the intersection.

Oh, why not.  Add in the supports at the tile boundaries and you get this:

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8149/elrail.jpg)

And to address Noah's question, you can see in the Google Earth pictures that the curves and intersections tend to have more supports than the straight track, as there's more stress put on them.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: JoeST on May 08, 2013, 01:17:11 AM
I was thinking maybe have one tangential to the curve?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on May 08, 2013, 02:40:22 AM
I was thinking maybe have one tangential to the curve?

That's certainly another possibility; in fact, you can see that's used in the Chicago Loop in the Google Earth views.  Basically, you'd have the tangent at the edge of the curve at an angle of 45 degrees, connecting to the two orthogonal supports.  The radial supports would still be there, but they would end at the tangential support.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on May 09, 2013, 05:23:47 AM
I have to apologize for not posting before; I keep viewing and thinking here without speaking my mind. Basically I agree with Steve's ideas as a nice way to implement things without having to do a bunch of extra work--but if you're interested in the angled pieces, Markus, they would definitely be nicer. as to how many support pieces an elevated rail network over "avenue" needs I wouldn't be very qualified to answer (though I have lived in Chicago). To be honest, I kind of like the idea of support pieces in the middle of the road (between lanes). It's not very nice to drive on such roads but they definitely have character ;)

Thanks for the response. More opinions are always welcome. :) The supports between the lanes is definitely an interesting idea, but I am not quite convinced. Apparently, most of the tracks in Chicago are constructed this way, but I don't understand why. I assumed that it would be necessary to retexture some of the RD-4 textures for this and therefore didn't pursue this idea.

Although it is one-way, I like to think of Chicago Van Buren Street (http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ll=41.876857,-87.633392&spn=0.000428,0.000561&t=k&z=21&layer=c&cbll=41.876857,-87.633392&panoid=UQbvoaeZ609l3EZEmWlWlQ&cbp=12,77.09,,0,1.18) as a RL example of El-Rail over Road-4.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/6f08922370620c5f565483eb96dfd546.jpg)


I have done some further research and found New York Jerome Avenue (http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ll=40.852169,-73.908826&spn=0.000309,0.000561&t=k&z=21&layer=c&cbll=40.852169,-73.908826&panoid=872gOhsH80lTPoxMWW4aOw&cbp=12,216.98,,0,12.72) which is exactly what you described, Noah. It seems to be a common configuration.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/d706cd809ff23bc1b5f3f5a31b6091a2.jpg)


More examples: New York Northern Boulevard (http://maps.google.de/maps?q=queensboro+plaza&hl=de&ll=40.749809,-73.935859&spn=0.000435,0.000561&sll=40.734413,-73.869152&sspn=0.019706,0.03592&t=k&hnear=Queensboro+Plaza&layer=c&cbll=40.749852,-73.935899&panoid=jh7_aEAeGAQcIcrk40Jkaw&cbp=12,42.72,,0,-7.2&z=21).

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/829e0db48fefa7410d07ad36b38db72e.jpg)


New York Roosevelt Avenue (http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ll=40.747366,-73.886708&spn=0.000435,0.000561&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=40.747366,-73.886708&panoid=C9RK4klTzup5SGgUxGnF7A&cbp=12,257.17,,0,-1.51) (though it's triple track rail).

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/abf7739d79c6d08031d232249e85bebb.jpg)


As can be seen in the pictures, parking cars on the shoulders (as you have mentioned before) are very common. I'd like to add some cars, too, but it will be the last step.

What is left to do (in this order):
• RULs,
• paths,
• positioning of the supports,
• shadows,
• T21 beautification.



Use Google Earth to look at the for corners of the Chicago Loop.  (It runs along the rectangle created by Wabash, Lake, Wells, and Van Buren streets.)  Be sure to have the "Photorealistic" view turned on.  First of all, notice how sharp those turns are.  They're just as sharp as the 90 degree turns in SC4.  (I can still hear those wheels screeching now.)  Now look at the supports right before the turn.  They're completely orthogonal.  The supports under the intersections and turns themselves are slightly different than what I proposed, but if you'll look closely, you'll see that they're custom-built for each intersection.  You probably don't want to do that. $%Grinno$%

I was uncertain as to whether the arrangement of the supports at Van Buren and Wells Street originated in the fact that it had been a three-way intersection in the past, but Chicago Wabash Avenue - Lake Street (http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ll=41.885755,-87.626339&spn=0.00121,0.002245&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.885756,-87.626267&panoid=7UrwLKSMRZTCEMXNAs6C1A&cbp=12,244.13,,0,1.18) certainly is one of the best examples of 90 degree turns.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/df212f46dcb37a557594a82e41e2c812.jpg)


I found other examples: New York Jamaica Avenue - Crescent Street (http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ll=40.689252,-73.874145&spn=0.000439,0.000561&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=40.689252,-73.874145&panoid=5dxZOMyJiTna-1uRlsH1TA&cbp=12,80.64,,0,-2.08). Note the radial support.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/401615798269e69fc3559da71d353e55.jpg)


New York Fulton Street - Crescent Street (http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ll=40.683536,-73.872157&spn=0.000439,0.000561&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=40.683536,-73.872157&panoid=PrpWV3sIkk1N_rlCci_QXQ&cbp=12,303.57,,0,-0.54). This one is less sharp and probably not as good a reference.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/f562818c096be56aff310dfd51c90bce.jpg)


Boston Green Line.

(http://mw.smugmug.com/Architecture/Lindemann-Mental-Health-Center/i-S9tRCrn/0/L/Lindemann-Sep-02%20021-L.jpg) (http://mw.smugmug.com/keyword/boston/1/139096888_S9tRCrn#!i=139096888&k=S9tRCrn)
(http://blogs.buffalonews.com/.a/6a00d83451b85a69e2017d40a5a7ea970c-pi) (http://blogs.buffalonews.com/sabres/2013/01/just-like-at-fnc.html?ref=brp)


To sum up, each of those configurations has a unique configuration of supports. As I have to decide, I will probably refer to Chicago Wabash-Lake because it seems to be one of the sharpest turns.


Quote
This is not possible in the depicted situation because one of the networks is RD-4. The support would end up in the middle of the street - imagine the invisible intersections. ;) A single wide 45 degree pylon could work, though.

I think you misunderstood what I was proposing.  Here's a rough picture:

Yes, I did understand you correctly. However, there is no empty space for the support at the right because RD-4 is medianless.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/b6e043ae3341d8b41c0e3352879b33a4.jpg)


I was thinking maybe have one tangential to the curve?

That's certainly another possibility; in fact, you can see that's used in the Chicago Loop in the Google Earth views.  Basically, you'd have the tangent at the edge of the curve at an angle of 45 degrees, connecting to the two orthogonal supports.  The radial supports would still be there, but they would end at the tangential support.

I am afraid, this exceeds my capability. If someone is willing to model such a corner support prop, I would gladly add it. :)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vortext on May 09, 2013, 02:31:49 PM
Just popping in to say this is a very exciting project!!  &apls

I'll be following this with great interest, keep it up!  :thumbsup:

Edit; this reminded me of Buddybud's elrail project. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2913.msg417531#msg417531) Would be neat if something similar is included into a future NAM too.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Swordmaster on May 09, 2013, 04:32:11 PM
Looks great so far. Markus! I think I'm gonna have to tap into your knowledge of transit modelling sooner rather than later. I've run into a bit of a dead-end.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Bipin on May 09, 2013, 05:15:36 PM
I think if any time is right, now would be the time to adapt these new pieces to some sort of aesthetic apart from the Maxis one, which is largely outdated. As previously mentioned, I'd love to see something like Buddybud's. Either way, superb job so far!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on May 10, 2013, 03:33:18 AM
You've really been doing your research, Markus!

Although it is one-way, I like to think of Chicago Van Buren Street (http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ll=41.876857,-87.633392&spn=0.000428,0.000561&t=k&z=21&layer=c&cbll=41.876857,-87.633392&panoid=UQbvoaeZ609l3EZEmWlWlQ&cbp=12,77.09,,0,1.18) as a RL example of El-Rail over Road-4.

Yes, as you've undoubtedly noticed, all the streets that form the Loop are one-way.  Aside from that, though, they are very much like an RD-4.

Quote
I was uncertain as to whether the arrangement of the supports at Van Buren and Wells Street originated in the fact that it had been a three-way intersection in the past...

I didn't know that! :o   It took me a while to track down that third line, too (if you'll pardon the expression).

Quote
Quote
This is not possible in the depicted situation because one of the networks is RD-4. The support would end up in the middle of the street - imagine the invisible intersections. ;) A single wide 45 degree pylon could work, though.

I think you misunderstood what I was proposing.  Here's a rough picture:

Yes, I did understand you correctly. However, there is no empty space for the support at the right because RD-4 is medianless.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/b6e043ae3341d8b41c0e3352879b33a4.jpg)

Ah, now I see.  I hadn't thought of that as a four-way intersection at ground level.

But what happens when you have two RD-4's intersect under a curve like that?  It's hard to see how you would avoid sticking pylons in two of the roads, especially if you rule out the tangential support option.

Road textures aren't that bad, though.  If I can do them, how hard can they be? :D
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: rooker1 on May 10, 2013, 04:51:08 AM
Not sure why you don't just use three supports, one across each side walk line from the inside corner and the last 45 degress across the intersection. JUst use the corners, I think it would be easier in all situations.
Great work, I'm still very excited....

Robin
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: JoeST on May 10, 2013, 06:05:06 AM
I think Robin has it on the head, the simplest will probably be the most useful in the long run. Maybe with the option of cosmetic pieces down the line?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Aaron Graham on May 10, 2013, 09:38:15 AM
Looks great guys, I would love to see the New York and Chicago style of Ele rails, I'm not a fan of the Maxis defaults.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Bipin on May 10, 2013, 02:02:33 PM
Looks great guys, I would love to see the New York and Chicago style of Ele rails, I'm not a fan of the Maxis defaults.

I agree to this. As I said earlier, now would probably be the best time to make a new standard. Perhaps a poll for which style is in order?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vortext on May 10, 2013, 02:17:31 PM
Perhaps a poll for which style is in order?

Well, maybe you could provide some examples first?!  ::) ;D
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on May 10, 2013, 02:25:13 PM
There's also no reason that multiple styles can't be available, selectable in the installer.  Different people like different styles.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on May 10, 2013, 05:47:09 PM
Certainly, I would like to have alternate El-Rail styles, too, but it does not seem to be anything I can achieve now. If anyone wants to try to improve the appearance of the El-Rail network, I would love to provide assistance. I'd really like to encourage you to try your hand at it.

In my opinion, it is most important to obtain the basic functionality of these dual pieces, first. After that, it is "only" a matter of replacing the models to a more appealing look. Please keep in mind that the models had been completed first, thus, I'm not working on them anymore right now. ;)

As a side note, when Tram-in-Avenue and draggable GLR were introduced, the former GLR textures were replaced by ebina's current textures. I had made this decision primarily because it safed me a lot of texturing work as it is easier to edit ebina's textures. Though, not everyone was pleased with it.


Looks great so far. Markus! I think I'm gonna have to tap into your knowledge of transit modelling sooner rather than later. I've run into a bit of a dead-end.

I'd be happy to be of help. :)


But what happens when you have two RD-4's intersect under a curve like that?  It's hard to see how you would avoid sticking pylons in two of the roads, especially if you rule out the tangential support option.

That's a good question, but Robin answers it. ;)

Robin, that's how the current El-Rail-over-Road-2 corner piece looks, by the way.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on May 10, 2013, 07:35:15 PM
Certainly, I would like to have alternate El-Rail styles, too, but it does not seem to be anything I can achieve now. If anyone wants to try to improve the appearance of the El-Rail network, I would love to provide assistance. I'd really like to encourage you to try your hand at it.

Buddybud's textures seem to be very popular, and it's my understanding that all they're missing is the intersections with the SAM networks.  If either Buddybud or someone else could be convinced to do these, that would seem to be the easiest thing to do (assuming we get Buddybud's permission to include these).

Quote
But what happens when you have two RD-4's intersect under a curve like that?  It's hard to see how you would avoid sticking pylons in two of the roads, especially if you rule out the tangential support option.

That's a good question, but Robin answers it. ;)

Robin, that's how the current El-Rail-over-Road-2 corner piece looks, by the way.

I see what he's saying, and I can see why it works for the standard El Rail over Road corner.  But with the double-width roads, that 45 degree piece is quite a stretch; it doesn't look structurally sound to me, especially if it's replacing two other supports.  So that's why I'll stick with my original proposal.  It's only my opinion, of course... ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on May 12, 2013, 09:25:58 AM
RULs and paths are completed. Now, it's time for pylons.

This is how it could look like on a four way intersection. Admittedly, it does not look appealing &mmm, but I am not a BATter. It also matches the Maxis-style with that…

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/a9136b76da46cc6891d5ecc109f9639f.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: io_bg on May 12, 2013, 10:23:10 AM
Looks good enough to me. Maybe it would be a tiny bit better if the supports at the intersection could be closer to the roads like the RD-4 which basically has its supports on the edge of the sidewalk?
Here's my suggestion for the RD-4 - AVE-4 X-ing which also appeared on this page:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/1d7f29d0ed7a889fa0dd546967f6cce6.jpg)

The red lines are where the supports would be. Excuse my poor Paint skills :D I'm not an engineer but I think it would be stable and realistic that way.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Apple Delight on May 12, 2013, 10:50:58 PM
Quote
Quote
This is not possible in the depicted situation because one of the networks is RD-4. The support would end up in the middle of the street - imagine the invisible intersections. ;) A single wide 45 degree pylon could work, though.

I think you misunderstood what I was proposing.  Here's a rough picture:

Yes, I did understand you correctly. However, there is no empty space for the support at the right because RD-4 is medianless.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/b6e043ae3341d8b41c0e3352879b33a4.jpg)

Ah, now I see.  I hadn't thought of that as a four-way intersection at ground level.

But what happens when you have two RD-4's intersect under a curve like that?  It's hard to see how you would avoid sticking pylons in two of the roads, especially if you rule out the tangential support option.

Road textures aren't that bad, though.  If I can do them, how hard can they be? :D

Regarding the problem of pylons in the road I was wondering, and it might be too late in development to do now, the Maxis avenue and the RD-4 use the same tulep pieces, so as long as the turning lane pieces were designed with enough room for the pylons the number of intersections that needed to be done would be the same as having only one el-rail over ave network (although finding space to put pylons on corners as above would be difficult as tuleps on the top and bottom wouldn't have enough room). I'll post an image when I have more time to better explain what I mean…
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on May 13, 2013, 08:54:45 AM
Maybe it would be a tiny bit better if the supports at the intersection could be closer to the roads like the RD-4 which basically has its supports on the edge of the sidewalk?

I had moved them away from the roads a little so as to be able to join them in one support and to avoid placing them directly in front of the pedestrian crossings.

Quote
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/1d7f29d0ed7a889fa0dd546967f6cce6.jpg)

The red lines are where the supports would be. Excuse my poor Paint skills :D I'm not an engineer but I think it would be stable and realistic that way.

That is almost what I am heading for, now, except they will join in a single support as shown in picture (1) on the previous page.

Regarding the problem of pylons in the road I was wondering, and it might be too late in development to do now, the Maxis avenue and the RD-4 use the same tulep pieces, so as long as the turning lane pieces were designed with enough room for the pylons the number of intersections that needed to be done would be the same as having only one el-rail over ave network (although finding space to put pylons on corners as above would be difficult as tuleps on the top and bottom wouldn't have enough room). I'll post an image when I have more time to better explain what I mean…

Although TuLEPs are theoretically possible, they are not planned in the near-term. It's just an enormous amount of work. The fact that RD-4 and Ave-4 could share the same TuLEP pieces slightly increases the likeliness of their eventual implementation, though.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: metarvo on May 13, 2013, 09:56:44 AM
It looks like both networks (ELR over AVE-4 and ELR over RD-4) are being done after all.  The more the merrier, right?  :)  These intersections are looking very good, Markus.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: io_bg on May 13, 2013, 11:48:43 AM
That is almost what I am heading for, now, except they will join in a single support as shown in picture (1) on the previous page.
Sounds reasonable!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on May 14, 2013, 01:22:54 PM
It looks like both networks (ELR over AVE-4 and ELR over RD-4) are being done after all.  The more the merrier, right?  :)

Right. It is less work to implement both at the same time than one first and the other at a later date. What is more, after some of the trouble I had, I would probably never have implemented the second network after the first one. $%Grinno$%




Again, I need your opinion on the supports. I just can't decide on the right placement.

(A)…
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/8422dc3d3465f5f01348e0e947b3c993.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/)

…or (B)?
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/ce9a373c582cfdcbeaf945fd8ac314e1.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vortext on May 14, 2013, 01:26:40 PM
A for me.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: art128 on May 14, 2013, 01:29:34 PM
A for me as well.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: metarvo on May 14, 2013, 01:43:13 PM
It was a hard decision, but in the end I decided to vote for A because of its compactness.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on May 14, 2013, 03:06:16 PM
A for me too.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: samerton on May 14, 2013, 03:18:07 PM
I'll go for A as well :)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Reform on May 14, 2013, 03:24:32 PM
I vote for A as well. I actually like B more, but keeping it simple, compact and continuous is allways more practical.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on May 14, 2013, 03:46:04 PM
I did not expect it to be such a clear decision. So it shall be A. Thanks for your replies.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: rooker1 on May 14, 2013, 03:48:32 PM
A little late, but A for me too.
Great work so far!!

Robin
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: MandelSoft on May 14, 2013, 04:09:56 PM
I can only be unanimous: option A seems to be best (less wasteful in materials)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kitsune on May 14, 2013, 06:08:00 PM
B ... as it looks more realistic. I dont really know if having a half a raised track bed sticking it is smart engineering wise when the piller is so thin.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Diggis on May 15, 2013, 05:54:58 AM
I'm in agreement on A. If the whole line it supported from the centre it wouldn't make sense to suddenly need to widen it.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on May 17, 2013, 11:07:53 PM
I'd like to see 7.5 m height elevated rail made so that these pieces would also be 7.5 m height.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on May 17, 2013, 11:59:13 PM
I'd like to see 7.5 m height elevated rail made so that these pieces would also be 7.5 m height.

But then they couldn't just blend in with the existing el rail system.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on May 19, 2013, 01:52:19 PM
I'd like to see 7.5 m height elevated rail made so that these pieces would also be 7.5 m height.

But then they couldn't just blend in with the existing el rail system.

So then make those as well so they could be blended.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Tarkus on May 19, 2013, 04:24:43 PM
We aren't planning to make L1 Elevated Light Rail at present.  We already have enough override networks that aren't crosslinked well.

-Alex
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: noahclem on May 19, 2013, 05:11:36 PM
I'd like to see 7.5 m height elevated rail made so that these pieces would also be 7.5 m height.

But then they couldn't just blend in with the existing el rail system.

So then make those as well so they could be blended.

That's a fairly rude way of asking for something I agree would very nice. I think modding the whole network to 7.5m would be the only possibility as we've got more than enough override networks now, as the doctor mentioned. I wouldn't get your hopes up though.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: APSMS on May 19, 2013, 05:12:05 PM
I'd like to see 7.5 m height elevated rail made so that these pieces would also be 7.5 m height.

But then they couldn't just blend in with the existing el rail system.

So then make those as well so they could be blended.

I would suggest, considering the load involved in modeling the networks and the subsequent RUL0 and RUL2 programming involved, that if you really want to see 7.5 meter El-Rail Networks that you begin on them yourself, since many of the files used are within reach, and propose to join the NAM team with your contribution. I highly doubt that such a trite remark should be taken lightly given the work involved in making new networks. I also doubt, given the height exaggeration limitation of the game that a 7.5m El-Rail would look realistic.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on May 19, 2013, 06:27:25 PM
Well, I didn't intend any rudeness at all in that response. I thought the implication to make L1 elevated rail was present in the original post.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: ei8htx on September 26, 2013, 01:48:23 AM
I see this hasn't been updated in a while, and I don't see it covered elsewhere.

Has this gone anywhere?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on September 26, 2013, 05:27:34 AM
It's in the process of being built.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on September 26, 2013, 07:29:42 AM
It's just slowly progressing - mostly because I've been occupied with other things. I definitely have intentions to bring a usable initial set to completion, but what is left to do is rather boring stuff. The current build is already largely functional, but still needs some tweaking.

I attach importance to the need for new stations for these networks. It would mean a lot to me if somebody accepted the challange of modelling a station. I would gladly offer any sort of technical assistance and, ultimately, it would make me complete this project sooner rather than later. Modelling a station is something I cannot accomplish myself due to lack of experience. I am afraid, without a station the usefulness of the El-Rail-over-Avenue pieces will be rather limited.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: whatevermind on September 26, 2013, 09:02:51 PM
I would love to help with making some stations. I've been meaning to get into making stations for viaduct rail for some time, but never really gotten around to it, so this might be the excuse to get started on something similar.  ;D

I don't know if my BAT skills are up to the challenge, but if you have some technical specs as to what you require for clearances, platform heights/locations, etc. to fit around the network, I'd love to take a stab at station making.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on September 27, 2013, 07:16:25 AM
It's just slowly progressing - mostly because I've been occupied with other things. I definitely have intentions to bring a usable initial set to completion, but what is left to do is rather boring stuff. The current build is already largely functional, but still needs some tweaking.

I attach importance to the need for new stations for these networks. It would mean a lot to me if somebody accepted the challange of modelling a station. I would gladly offer any sort of technical assistance and, ultimately, it would make me complete this project sooner rather than later. Modelling a station is something I cannot accomplish myself due to lack of experience. I am afraid, without a station the usefulness of the El-Rail-over-Avenue pieces will be rather limited.

So I'm going to give attempt to model something this weekend and i'll see what I can come up with.  I'm pretty new the 3DS max but who knows...  I do live in Chicago where we have many El Stations for inspiration.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on September 28, 2013, 04:11:36 AM
That would be great!

The most important thing when modelling a station for elevated networks is that the tracks should not get part of the station. It is preferrable to add them as props later on, which allows for alternative track textures and models. This means that the LODs need to be cut such that the network props are not hidden, but that will be the last step of the whole process.

In the pictures below, I've tagged the coordinates of the straight El Rail model and of the Avenue and RD-4 textures. The  trains drive at a height of 15.5 meters and an offset of ±2 meters. An overhead clearance of 6.5-7.0 meters should be sufficient for the car traffic.

Let me know if you need anything else.

I think it would be useful, albeit not required, if the stations are designed in a way that allows them to be placed at an intersection with road or avenue because transit-enabled lots don't give zone access and it is easier to circumvent this at intersections. Besides, the user has more freedom in placing the stations. There exist similar examples for El-Rail-over-Road, like Madison-Wells-Station, for instance. It also seems to be common in RL as can be seen in Chicago.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/8e44d5b3382daff090d6c3d5a9c3f94f.jpg)

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/a56f172168e8e454fdc2a2280be5a2cb.jpg)

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/3af7b4f758bb6193729c28c1feb871bb.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on September 28, 2013, 10:29:41 AM
Here is what I am planning on using as my template for the model.  I am actually off right now to get some photos to help with creating some texts and hopefully get a couple orthographic views.  I will attach them to the thread when I get back :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_(CTA_station)

Oh and memo get out of my head!  How must you always know exactly what I need ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on September 28, 2013, 02:53:25 PM
Included is a set I shot that I am going to use for my reference images for the station.  The set includes numerous shots from under the El tracks as well and illustrates what a NRD-4 under an EL looks like in Chicago.  I am going to use the Morgan-Lake station even though its only a 2 lane underneath I am going to widen it.  Any tips on a good idea for the overall size of the station?  I was thinking 5x2 including a 1 tile overhang for the road (or 6x2 to fit an avenue under one end?)  To be honest I don't know of a whole lot of stations that go directly over an intersection (aside from the couple in the loop that are modeled) they are usually split between two or offset a bit to allow for people and buses to get in an out at the street side.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34958417@N04/sets/72157635986020954/
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: GDO29Anagram on September 28, 2013, 06:39:51 PM
Any tips on a good idea for the overall size of the station?  I was thinking 5x2 including a 1 tile overhang for the road (or 6x2 to fit an avenue under one end?)  To be honest I don't know of a whole lot of stations that go directly over an intersection (aside from the couple in the loop that are modeled) they are usually split between two or offset a bit to allow for people and buses to get in an out at the street side.

Just remember that it's RD-4 (the two-tiler), not NRD-4 (the one-tile variant of RD-4).

As of station implementation, a lot of inspiration can be drawn from existing stations, in particular, the Ashland Station and the Modern Overhanging El Rail over Road Station. There's another station that I don't have pictured here, and it's the 15m Arched Station and its overhang can be used either Road or Avenue.

As of station size, if overhangs were used to its full extent, it can be as small as 1x2, but 3x2 or greater should suffice, but it can be as big as needed.

For a station that would go directly over an intersection, looking at how the Modern Overhanging Stations are set up can give some ideas since, 1, it's actually quite flexible and could allow other networks of the same width to cross under the station, and 2, the use of a two-part station ensures that both sides of the Avenue have access to the station.

That's all I have for now.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on September 28, 2013, 08:37:13 PM
Any tips on a good idea for the overall size of the station?  I was thinking 5x2 including a 1 tile overhang for the road (or 6x2 to fit an avenue under one end?)  To be honest I don't know of a whole lot of stations that go directly over an intersection (aside from the couple in the loop that are modeled) they are usually split between two or offset a bit to allow for people and buses to get in an out at the street side.

Just remember that it's RD-4 (the two-tiler), not NRD-4 (the one-tile variant of RD-4).

As of station implementation, a lot of inspiration can be drawn from existing stations, in particular, the Ashland Station and the Modern Overhanging El Rail over Road Station. There's another station that I don't have pictured here, and it's the 15m Arched Station and its overhang can be used either Road or Avenue.

As of station size, if overhangs were used to its full extent, it can be as small as 1x2, but 3x2 or greater should suffice, but it can be as big as needed.

For a station that would go directly over an intersection, looking at how the Modern Overhanging Stations are set up can give some ideas since, 1, it's actually quite flexible and could allow other networks of the same width to cross under the station, and 2, the use of a two-part station ensures that both sides of the Avenue have access to the station.

That's all I have for now.

Thanks for the suggestions all.  Development is underway and things are starting to shape up a bit.  I decided to create the dimensions of my station off of the AVE-4 since it has the shorter sidewalk median of the two.  This should fit right on top of RD-4 as well since the overall inside size is smaller.  The station will be 2x3 and the overall dimensions will probably be around 7-11 tiles long for the platform as this will be a larger station then most.  Also take a look at my image and let me know if I can have the platform overhang like it is right now.  The track pieces are layed out according to memo's post (reference only).  I hope I can get away with the stairs being pretty steep since I can then put the elevator on the back side of one of the stairwell sections.

Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on September 28, 2013, 09:48:21 PM
The most important thing when modelling a station for elevated networks is that the tracks should not get part of the station. It is preferrable to add them as props later on, which allows for alternative track textures and models. This means that the LODs need to be cut such that the network props are not hidden, but that will be the last step of the whole process.

An excellent point.  We've found out how important this is with Xyloxadoria's stations.

Quote
I think it would be useful, albeit not required, if the stations are designed in a way that allows them to be placed at an intersection with road or avenue because transit-enabled lots don't give zone access and it is easier to circumvent this at intersections. Besides, the user has more freedom in placing the stations. There exist similar examples for El-Rail-over-Road, like Madison-Wells-Station, for instance. It also seems to be common in RL as can be seen in Chicago.

I was going to mention this as well, but you beat me to it.  This is the reason all the existing El Rail over Road stations have an intersection in their middle.

The Morgan-Lake station looks beautiful, and I hope you go with it.  It's a nice complement to the older style Chicago stations by Ardecila.  And the Morgan-Lake has that intersection in the middle.  If you use the intersection, instead of having to fit everything into a 2x2 space with overhang, you can put the main station into a 2x3 area, with a bit of overhang beyond the three-tile length; among other things, this solves your problem with the stairs, which do look unrealistically steep in your picture.  The platform itself can overhang further, again as in Ardecila's stations.

Are you planning to have an elevator on each side of the tracks?  That would seem to be reasonable, especially if you space the stairs out a bit in an overhang.

Any tips on a good idea for the overall size of the station?  I was thinking 5x2 including a 1 tile overhang for the road (or 6x2 to fit an avenue under one end?)  To be honest I don't know of a whole lot of stations that go directly over an intersection (aside from the couple in the loop that are modeled) they are usually split between two or offset a bit to allow for people and buses to get in an out at the street side.

Well, the Morgan-Lake station certainly looks like it goes directly over the intersection.  And as yet another Chicagoan who spent plenty of time on the 'L' in my younger years, I remember many other stations that were centered over intersections.  From the game's point of view, it's just a whole lot easier if you do it that way.  Having worked intensively with RTMT for years, I know all too well the problems with zone access when you have station lots such as these, and these problems increase nonlinearly with the station size.  If you make the station 2x2 with an overhang, you run into these problems, and the station becomes more difficult to use in the game.  (Many people refuse to use RTMT at all specifically because of this problem.)  But if you make the station 2x3 with an intersecting road in the center, there are no such problems at all, as long as the player uses the intersecting road.  The reason for this is that although there is no network access to the El Rail over Avenue network on the two end points of the station, any zone covering these points also faces the intersecting road.  This counts as network access, no matter which direction the zone is aligned, and so you will never get "no access" zots with this layout.  Those who have used Ardecila's stations in this fashion have never had any problems.

So for the lot size, I'd recommend 2x3, corresponding to Ardecila's stations.  Again, the main model can have a little overhang on each side so that things aren't too squished together.  The overhang can be as large as necessary, since the platform is going to overhang beyond the station building itself.  Again, this is exactly what Ardecila does; if you look at Ganaram's picture, you can see that the main portion of the station is actually about four tiles long, with a half tile on each end being an overhang.  The entire station, including the platform overhang is nine tiles long.  I seem to recall that Ardecila went to great pains to make these stations to scale as much as possible, so I would recommend the same lengths.

I would also think that where you have an avenue crossing an avenue, that would be a very natural place for a station.  So I would recommend a variation on this station that would have room for an avenue underneath.  I would just stretch the middle out, making the lot 2x4 (total size with overhanging platform would be 2x10) so that the stairs on each side end up in the right place.  The Modern Overhanging El Rail over Road station is laid out like this, although it uses a large overhang and two separate stations.  As the person who did all the modding for this station, I can tell you that it's a mess to create.  It's also been difficult for users to build these stations.  It takes a lot of fiddling around to get them right, whereas with Ardecila's stations, you just plop them, and you're done.  Xyloxadoria's overhanging stations have one big advantage in that you can run any network underneath them.  But if we assume that an El Rail over Avenue would intersect an avenue in this case, and an El Rail over RD-4 would intersect an RD-4, then this extra flexibility is not necessary, and the stations are much easier to build and use if they are based on a 2x4 lot, with the avenue running through the middle.

Finally, to comply with the MTA standards, I would recommend a bus stop on each of the two sides of the station, along with subway access (which is of course optional).  The bus stop can be the Ninja sign that's used for the other NAM stations; it's already included with the NAM props.  As long as there's an elevator in the station (which I gather there is), the subway access can simply be implied.  Players are free to use it or not as they wish.

Just remember that it's RD-4 (the two-tiler), not NRD-4 (the one-tile variant of RD-4).

Yes, that was my mistake - I was thinking of the section of the section of the Wabash 'L' in the Loop that is essentially an NRD-4 (although in reality it's an NOWR-4 - anyone want to build one of those? ;D)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on September 28, 2013, 11:43:49 PM
The most important thing when modelling a station for elevated networks is that the tracks should not get part of the station. It is preferrable to add them as props later on, which allows for alternative track textures and models. This means that the LODs need to be cut such that the network props are not hidden, but that will be the last step of the whole process.

An excellent point.  We've found out how important this is with Xyloxadoria's stations.

Quote
I think it would be useful, albeit not required, if the stations are designed in a way that allows them to be placed at an intersection with road or avenue because transit-enabled lots don't give zone access and it is easier to circumvent this at intersections. Besides, the user has more freedom in placing the stations. There exist similar examples for El-Rail-over-Road, like Madison-Wells-Station, for instance. It also seems to be common in RL as can be seen in Chicago.

I was going to mention this as well, but you beat me to it.  This is the reason all the existing El Rail over Road stations have an intersection in their middle.

The Morgan-Lake station looks beautiful, and I hope you go with it.  It's a nice complement to the older style Chicago stations by Ardecila.  And the Morgan-Lake has that intersection in the middle.  If you use the intersection, instead of having to fit everything into a 2x2 space with overhang, you can put the main station into a 2x3 area, with a bit of overhang beyond the three-tile length; among other things, this solves your problem with the stairs, which do look unrealistically steep in your picture.  The platform itself can overhang further, again as in Ardecila's stations.

Are you planning to have an elevator on each side of the tracks?  That would seem to be reasonable, especially if you space the stairs out a bit in an overhang.

Any tips on a good idea for the overall size of the station?  I was thinking 5x2 including a 1 tile overhang for the road (or 6x2 to fit an avenue under one end?)  To be honest I don't know of a whole lot of stations that go directly over an intersection (aside from the couple in the loop that are modeled) they are usually split between two or offset a bit to allow for people and buses to get in an out at the street side.

Well, the Morgan-Lake station certainly looks like it goes directly over the intersection.  And as yet another Chicagoan who spent plenty of time on the 'L' in my younger years, I remember many other stations that were centered over intersections.  From the game's point of view, it's just a whole lot easier if you do it that way.  Having worked intensively with RTMT for years, I know all too well the problems with zone access when you have station lots such as these, and these problems increase nonlinearly with the station size.  If you make the station 2x2 with an overhang, you run into these problems, and the station becomes more difficult to use in the game.  (Many people refuse to use RTMT at all specifically because of this problem.)  But if you make the station 2x3 with an intersecting road in the center, there are no such problems at all, as long as the player uses the intersecting road.  The reason for this is that although there is no network access to the El Rail over Avenue network on the two end points of the station, any zone covering these points also faces the intersecting road.  This counts as network access, no matter which direction the zone is aligned, and so you will never get "no access" zots with this layout.  Those who have used Ardecila's stations in this fashion have never had any problems.

So for the lot size, I'd recommend 2x3, corresponding to Ardecila's stations.  Again, the main model can have a little overhang on each side so that things aren't too squished together.  The overhang can be as large as necessary, since the platform is going to overhang beyond the station building itself.  Again, this is exactly what Ardecila does; if you look at Ganaram's picture, you can see that the main portion of the station is actually about four tiles long, with a half tile on each end being an overhang.  The entire station, including the platform overhang is nine tiles long.  I seem to recall that Ardecila went to great pains to make these stations to scale as much as possible, so I would recommend the same lengths.

I would also think that where you have an avenue crossing an avenue, that would be a very natural place for a station.  So I would recommend a variation on this station that would have room for an avenue underneath.  I would just stretch the middle out, making the lot 2x4 (total size with overhanging platform would be 2x10) so that the stairs on each side end up in the right place.  The Modern Overhanging El Rail over Road station is laid out like this, although it uses a large overhang and two separate stations.  As the person who did all the modding for this station, I can tell you that it's a mess to create.  It's also been difficult for users to build these stations.  The stations have one big advantage in that you can run any network underneath them.  But if we assume that an El Rail over Avenue would intersect an avenue in this case, and an El Rail over RD-4 would intersect an RD-4, then this extra flexibility is not necessary, and the stations are much easier to build and use if they are based on a 2x4 lot, with the avenue running through the middle.

Finally, to comply with the MTA standards, I would recommend a bus stop on each of the two sides of the station, along with subway access (which is of course optional).  The bus stop can be the Ninja sign that's used for the other NAM stations; it's already included with the NAM props.  As long as there's an elevator in the station (which I gather there is), the subway access can simply be implied.  Players are free to use it or not as they wish.

Just remember that it's RD-4 (the two-tiler), not NRD-4 (the one-tile variant of RD-4).

Yes, that was my mistake - I was thinking of the section of the section of the Wabash 'L' in the Loop that is essentially an NRD-4 (although in reality it's an NOWR-4 - anyone want to build one of those? ;D)

Does the entrance being only on one side of the intersection still count as being over an intersection?  Below is a picture I took today from of the Morgan-Lake station.  The majority of the station is on the back side of the photo and the platform only extends slightly past the intersection in the foreground.  If the station needs to be placed in such a way that the roads intersect in the middle do pedestrian entrances need to placed on both sides or does all traffic enter at one point.  I haven't created a transit lot yet.  It might be important to note that I can move the model back and extend the stairs back (to remove the steepness) so its 6x2 with a piece of the model overhanging an intersection.

And I'll be sure to get those bus stops in  ;D

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34958417@N04/9986409346/in/set-72157635986020954

Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on September 29, 2013, 01:31:40 AM
As the details of this discussion are starting to get a bit technical, I have continued this part of the discussion in the new El Rail over Avenue (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=16130.msg468247#msg468247) thread on the private NAM board.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: ei8htx on October 01, 2013, 08:42:05 PM
Well I hope you guys post here when it's finished.  I've been checking the thread daily to see what developments are coming.

Also, this verification just to post a message is beyond ridiculous.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on October 01, 2013, 09:11:53 PM
Well I hope you guys post here when it's finished.  I've been checking the thread daily to see what developments are coming.

Also, this verification just to post a message is beyond ridiculous.

Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: ei8htx on October 02, 2013, 02:56:28 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on October 02, 2013, 06:18:35 PM
Neat, a station with platforms that are sufficiently long!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on October 02, 2013, 07:37:10 PM
Also, this verification just to post a message is beyond ridiculous.

That goes away after the first few posts, when the system is sure you're a human.  It was put in place only because we were having a really terrible spam problem without it.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on October 06, 2013, 01:11:43 PM

Quick Update:

Well its starting to look a'lot like a train station ;)  I might make the glass more transparent if I can detail the inside sufficiently (learning how to BAT still).  Comments questions concerns?

Bonus points to who can identify which train station this is modeled after.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Girafe on October 06, 2013, 05:12:58 PM
A really good start,

it reminds me some of metro staton from Copenhagen
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: APSMS on October 06, 2013, 06:00:46 PM
Wait, are you suggesting that it's not the Morgan-Lake station that you mentioned previously? Or it is and you're hoping we haven't read your previous posts?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on October 06, 2013, 06:04:19 PM
Wait, are you suggesting that it's not the Morgan-Lake station that you mentioned previously? Or it is and you're hoping we haven't read your previous posts?


Err hah okay never mind.  I got mixed up thinking I didn't post what station it was in this post.  So yeah hoping you didn't read my previous posts?   ::)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: RepublicMaster on October 06, 2013, 07:08:48 PM
The station is looking very nice Droric! :D
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on October 16, 2013, 12:43:20 PM
Some progress on the T21 files. These networks now blend in with the surroundings perfectly. So far, this requires 582 individual T21 files.

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/a6b83f408292229b29204568a5ad37fc.jpg)

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/75f52b4a517bb4eb1e578f994a613502.jpg)

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/c77b5c1d5d3b737f8a3b49c378f319fd.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on October 16, 2013, 12:51:02 PM

Looking awesome.  Guess I need to step up my game with getting my station finished ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meastro444 on October 16, 2013, 01:37:04 PM
Awesome. I hope it was largely copy and paste. 582 files is a lot.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: gn_leugim on October 16, 2013, 02:54:59 PM
so awesome :o
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Gugu3 on October 16, 2013, 03:09:56 PM
Awesome!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Swordmaster on October 16, 2013, 03:30:46 PM
I'm gonna make that five by saying: awesome! Great work Markus.

If the next poster doesn't use the word "awesome", that would be awful.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: samerton on October 16, 2013, 03:51:50 PM
Looking absolutely awesome! ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Simcoug on October 16, 2013, 03:54:25 PM
awfully awesome!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Indiana Joe on October 16, 2013, 06:40:49 PM
Spectacular


...ly awesome!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: sunv123 on October 16, 2013, 08:39:13 PM
Amazi Awesome work! :thumbsup:

Those curves :o
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: APSMS on October 16, 2013, 08:52:50 PM
It looks even more awesome when it's functional (Willy you just had to say something, didn't you?).

582 sounds like a lot, but I have little (actually none) reference to go by. How does the ELRoAVE determine the median T21? Or is it baked in? I think I see two different planter boxes, but I could be wrong.

With this I might actually start using EL-Rail over Road now, too!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on October 17, 2013, 01:27:47 AM
Well I have a small station update to add.  My station seems to be coming along nicely and I am finally happy with the exterior since I have changed it to more accurately reflect the stainless over glass look that Morgan-Lake actually has.

(http://i.imgur.com/7L2Pg52.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/1E73BlA.jpg)

I think since the model is offset the lighting is a bit off on the side view.  Or perhaps that's what stainless is supposed to look like under similar lighting conditions.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on October 17, 2013, 01:54:47 AM
If I may say so, that definitely looks awesome! It's a great improvement of the overall look. :thumbsup:


Guess I need to step up my game with getting my station finished ;)

No need to hurry though. There's always something left to do. ;)

Awesome. I hope it was largely copy and paste. 582 files is a lot.

Well, kind of. Positioning the supports at intersections was a lot of manual work, but concerning the medians and sidewalks, once I found the initial configuration, it was indeed copy and paste. Fortunately, I am able to automate this nowadays.

582 sounds like a lot, but I have little (actually none) reference to go by. How does the ELRoAVE determine the median T21? Or is it baked in? I think I see two different planter boxes, but I could be wrong.

The number of T21 files soon multiplies, if a uniform distribution of props is intended. Even more so, if one mixes different configurations, for example, the street lights are uniformly placed at every other tile, but you should be able to place the supports independently of this. Maxis did the same thing and has shipped quite a number of T21 files.

I tried to accomplish a look similar to the Maxis Avenues. However, those make use of 35 different median props and quite a lot of T21 variety, so I decided to use a subset. For example, I left out the industrial medians. So, the median props are chosen based on wealth type ($,$$,$$$) and zoning density (none vs. low vs. medium/high). Moreover, there are about one to four different median props that are randomly chosen for each configuration. You can see all three different wealth types in the pictures.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on October 17, 2013, 07:50:07 PM
How exciting awesome!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Bipin on October 18, 2013, 06:24:51 AM
Great work with that station!  &apls
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vortext on October 18, 2013, 10:15:59 AM
Great Awesome work with that station!  &apls

Fixed that for you!  ;D

Seriously, awesome job!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Indiana Joe on October 18, 2013, 08:22:38 PM
You killed it Bipin.   $%Grinno$%

The glass textures look awesome Droric.  From looking at pictures and satellite imagery, the walls seem a little lighter or more transparent than what you have.  But that's just me.  Depends on the angle of course.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Bipin on October 19, 2013, 08:53:54 AM
Yeah, awesome work there droric!

You killed it Bipin.   $%Grinno$%

It's dead, Jim! :P
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 01, 2013, 02:23:04 PM
i think i'm vote on the El-Rail over Avenue. also. Manila and other cities also having El-Rail over Avenue. the El-Rail over RD-4 is not possible in the real world. so. i'm vote on El-Rail over Avenue.

check this photo. this is the Manila MRT Blue Line. created in the middle of a avenue.(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/EDSA_Crossings.jpg/800px-EDSA_Crossings.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on November 01, 2013, 07:35:39 PM
I thought both would be done.

Also, I do not think an avenue is under that railroad; maybe a creek. That reminds me of a few parts of Line 2 in Seoul.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: GDO29Anagram on November 01, 2013, 07:39:23 PM
Enough progress has been done such that both ELR over Avenue and ELR over RD-4 will be made available. Both have their own perks, and people can decide for themselves on what to use.

I thought both would be done.

Also, I do not think an avenue is under that railroad; maybe a creek. That reminds me of a few parts of Line 2 in Seoul.

I think it's an ELR over RD in between two OWRs.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on November 02, 2013, 01:20:55 AM
Ah, you may be right. I see a few cars there.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: jdenm8 on November 02, 2013, 05:41:33 AM
the El-Rail over RD-4 is not possible in the real world.

Various sections of the Chicago El would disagree with you.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: APSMS on November 02, 2013, 07:31:19 AM
the El-Rail over RD-4 is not possible in the real world.
Various sections of the Chicago El would disagree with you.
it's only Chicago. but other cities don't have El-Rail over RD-4.

Let's not pick hairs here. Most cities in the world do not even have EL-Rail over road, much less any sort of El-Rail to speak of. And Chicago has a ridiculous abundance of EL-Rail over road widths of all types (New York also has a bunch, if I'm not mistaken, but it's not as prominent a feature of their MT system). So I think it best to just acknowledge that perhaps your comment was really poorly worded and perhaps also 9 months late. I would read the thread (or some of it) before posting, as both pictures and discussion on development would have answered your comment very quickly.

A question to memo: have transition pieces from TIA to ELRoAVE (and others) been created for direct integration into our cities, or is the mod currently isolated?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Swordmaster on November 02, 2013, 08:16:04 AM
There's a transition from TIR to EL over RD, so that's where you could connect the two. The piece you describe doesn't exist (yet), but I wouldn't call the network isolated.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 02, 2013, 08:18:43 AM
i find another photo. but at this time it's a El-Rail over Avenue. this is the Manila LRT Purple Line. also created in the middle of a Avenue.
(http://qtviajera.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/lrt.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on November 02, 2013, 11:23:50 AM
Looks like light rail over Ave-6.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 02, 2013, 01:10:25 PM
I have a night render to post as promised.  Let me know what you guys think.



(http://i.imgur.com/pRYY3y4.jpg)




Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: strucka on November 02, 2013, 04:57:40 PM
Awesome job!  &apls

P.S.: Just one architectural comment. It would be far better if a station like this would have the passage between platforms underneath them. This way there is less walking.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Swordmaster on November 02, 2013, 06:48:28 PM
I think you nailed it Mark. Looks perfect.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on November 02, 2013, 09:58:30 PM
Love it!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Indiana Joe on November 02, 2013, 11:28:09 PM
Awesome job!  &apls

P.S.: Just one architectural comment. It would be far better if a station like this would have the passage between platforms underneath them. This way there is less walking.

It's called the ground.   ;)  There are doors on the bottom...you walk out, and go to the other side.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 03, 2013, 01:29:00 AM
Looks like light rail over Ave-6.
i think you right. i know that is a El-Rail over AVE-6.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: strucka on November 03, 2013, 08:56:06 AM
Awesome job!  &apls

P.S.: Just one architectural comment. It would be far better if a station like this would have the passage between platforms underneath them. This way there is less walking.

It's called the ground.   ;)  There are doors on the bottom...you walk out, and go to the other side.

Yes of course! But, in this situation, the ground is 15m lower. That is 5 storeys of steps, or by a slow elevator.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 03, 2013, 09:39:41 AM
The sim's either walk up the stairs or they take an elevator.  In a real life situation there isn't much reason to use the overpass since you normally would just enter the station from the other side.  The station's overpass is more for handicap people and to cross lines to transfer.  Most traffic comes up the stairs and right to the platform.  If it is assumed that most traffic enters at street level and only traffic entering from the platform uses the overpass then there is no advantage to having the overpass under the station platform.  I can't do anything about the fact that the El-Rail is 4 stories up in Simcity 4 land that is simply how Maxis created the game and the original scale.  A little exercise never hurt the sims!

Thanks everyone for your kind comments!  I am also welcoming any photos of any other stations that might be suitable for the Simcity landscape that will fit on these networks.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: APSMS on November 03, 2013, 11:26:47 AM
Yes of course! But, in this situation, the ground is 15m lower. That is 5 storeys of steps, or by a slow elevator.

Well, the ground is 15m lower, but Sims are .8 meters taller (2.5m), so it's not really 5 storys worth to them. Droric, it looks good. Are you going to release a Darknite version as well? The MTA on the side would be potentially story breaking, but it's a good enough BAT that I think it ought to stay (to preempt any criticism on that end).
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 03, 2013, 11:32:56 AM
Yes of course! But, in this situation, the ground is 15m lower. That is 5 storeys of steps, or by a slow elevator.

Well, the ground is 15m lower, but Sims are .8 meters taller (2.5m), so it's not really 5 storys worth to them. Droric, it looks good. Are you going to release a Darknite version as well? The MTA on the side would be potentially story breaking, but it's a good enough BAT that I think it ought to stay (to preempt any criticism on that end).

I do not have any plans to release a darknite version but I guess I didn't really consider it either.  I don't follow your comment about the MTA on the side being 'story breaking'.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: APSMS on November 03, 2013, 12:10:47 PM
Well, for CJs, at least. In the region I've been working on, MTA was dropped ages ago, and the transit dept. changed to SDART first, and then SMART (San diego Metropolitan Area Rapid Transit). That's what I meant. I wouldn't worry about it, though. The station actually looks better for having the lettering, probably because so many stations are often devoid of such marking (especially in SC4).
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Indiana Joe on November 03, 2013, 12:55:10 PM
Well, for CJs, at least. In the region I've been working on, MTA was dropped ages ago, and the transit dept. changed to SDART first, and then SMART (San diego Metropolitan Area Rapid Transit). That's what I meant. I wouldn't worry about it, though. The station actually looks better for having the lettering, probably because so many stations are often devoid of such marking (especially in SC4).

You have to remember that he's trying to model it precisely after the Morgan-Lake station.  So he won't be adding or taking away anything.  It's like asking a BATer to remove the "Wal-Mart" logo from a Wal-Mart BAT.  It's a real-life BAT, not a generic one.

The challenge is to somehow incorporate it into your city journal.   ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on November 03, 2013, 03:43:34 PM
You have to remember that he's trying to model it precisely after the Morgan-Lake station.  So he won't be adding or taking away anything.  It's like asking a BATer to remove the "Wal-Mart" logo from a Wal-Mart BAT.  It's a real-life BAT, not a generic one.

Good analogy. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 03, 2013, 06:53:17 PM
nice station!  &apls
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 03, 2013, 07:23:08 PM
Thanks everyone for your kind comments!  :)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Bipin on November 03, 2013, 10:46:15 PM
I have a night render to post as promised.  Let me know what you guys think.



(http://i.imgur.com/pRYY3y4.jpg)

You've done exceptionally well with that station; the lighting is gorgeous.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: thebagleboy on November 03, 2013, 11:49:23 PM
The challenge is to somehow incorporate it into your city journal.   ;)

MTA: Mount Terra-Atlanta Station :P
I think that would work.
p.s. I'm not good at naming things.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 03, 2013, 11:53:49 PM
Thanks everyone for your kind comments!  :)
the station will be so great if you put a roof like this:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Mrtroosevelt3jf.JPG/800px-Mrtroosevelt3jf.JPG)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 03, 2013, 11:55:16 PM
the station will be so great if you put a roof like this:


Do you have a picture of the top of the roof?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 03, 2013, 11:59:56 PM
the station will be so great if you put a roof like this:


Do you have a picture of the top of the roof?
no. but the roof design is a dome.  ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 03:31:01 AM
i can't find a train skin that matches the station.  ()sad() i hope they created a train skin like this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/LRT1-Manila_towards_Taft_Station.jpg/450px-LRT1-Manila_towards_Taft_Station.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on November 04, 2013, 04:34:08 AM
Ardecila made some CTA train skins over on the STEX for his CTA stations, so they should go fine with this station as well.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 05:21:20 AM
Ardecila made some CTA train skins over on the STEX for his CTA stations, so they should go fine with this station as well.
no. i want a train skin like this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/LRT1-Manila_towards_Taft_Station.jpg/450px-LRT1-Manila_towards_Taft_Station.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Gugu3 on November 04, 2013, 05:54:33 AM
You should get into modding then and try tto make your own model ;)
Cheers
Guglielmo
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 06:05:17 AM
You should get into modding then and try tto make your own model ;)
Cheers
Guglielmo
no. i don't have BAT or Lot Editor. also. i don't have any tools from creating mods. that's why i hope they create my favorite train skin.  ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vester on November 04, 2013, 06:13:27 AM
Or maybe just reskin one.
I have uploaded quite a few different models. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=429.msg11869#msg11869)
Beside that there is a list of trains mods (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14223.0). Sorry not up to date. Need to add my own latest work to it.

I didn't have any idea how to do it when I started, so it just a matter of getting started.

BTW: So you request a train skin with just a picture that shows the top and front of the trains and just a little of the side.
One thing you could provide of infomation, would be the name of network.
Maybe you should place your request in the right place. We do have an area for that.

PS: I have retired for the time being from doing any new trains skins. Will just finish of what I have started so far.



Almost forgot the import part:
Great job on the night lights   
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 06:31:46 AM
Or maybe just reskin one.
I have uploaded quite a few different models. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=429.msg11869#msg11869)
Beside that there is a list of trains mods (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14223.0). Sorry not up to date. Need to add my own latest work to it.

I didn't have any idea how to do it when I started, so it just a matter of getting started.

BTW: So you request a train skin with just a picture that shows the top and front of the trains and just a little of the side.
One thing you could provide of infomation, would be the name of network.
Maybe you should place your request in the right place. We do have an area for that.

PS: I have retired for the time being from doing any new trains skins. Will just finish of what I have started so far.



Almost forgot the import part:
Great job on the night lights   
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
the elevated line named: Manila LRT Yellow Line. is a philippine elevated rail line.  ;) also created in a avenue.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vester on November 04, 2013, 07:01:29 AM
Maybe you should place your request in the right place. We do have an area for that.

Think you overlook this line in my message. The right place would be in this subforum: New Transit Items Request (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=164.0)
This thread is for EL-rail station and not requests for train skins.
When posting there, please post name of the name of the transit network and a few more pictures.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 12:38:14 PM
Maybe you should place your request in the right place. We do have an area for that.

Think you overlook this line in my message. The right place would be in this subforum: New Transit Items Request (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=164.0)
This thread is for EL-rail station and not requests for train skins.
When posting there, please post name of the name of the transit network and a few more pictures.
ah. okay.
Title: Re: NAM Poll: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 01:34:17 PM
I'd go for option 1, since I only know those setups as a reference. Also, RD-4 is virtually not present in the Netherlands, because it's considered to be unsafe.
also. your right. El-Rail over RD-4 is also not present in the Philippines. also for same reason: unsafe.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 04, 2013, 01:44:28 PM
I speak for Chicago and we have plenty of unsafe!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 01:45:28 PM
I speak for Chicago and we have plenty of unsafe!
you designed the station?  ::)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 04, 2013, 01:47:13 PM
I created the in game model if thats what you mean.  I was not the actual architect to design the station no.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 01:48:47 PM
I created the in game model if thats what you mean.  I was not the actual architect to design the station no.
i said: you have the photo of your created dome el-rail station?  ::)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 04, 2013, 03:06:09 PM
I created the in game model if thats what you mean.  I was not the actual architect to design the station no.
i said: you have the photo of your created dome el-rail station?  ::)

Huh...

(http://i.imgur.com/ES1iv6b.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Geometry123 on November 04, 2013, 10:33:32 PM
Well, I feel like there's something missing on the poll above, and that is: Both. :P

Nice progress on the El-Rail over Avenue, can add a gritty feeling to my cities! ::) I think it would be nice to implement both RD-4 and AVE-4 for NAM 32, but I'll live with it if RD-4 can't be in NAM 32. Only time teasing will tell. $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on November 04, 2013, 11:13:31 PM
 Both will be made. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15675.msg470422#msg470422)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 05, 2013, 12:12:19 AM
Both will be made. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15675.msg470422#msg470422)
okay. but i'm using El-Rail over Avenue.  :D
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on November 05, 2013, 12:17:38 AM
Now, is there a transition piece from El Tram over AVE-4 to RD-4?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 05, 2013, 12:21:48 AM
I created the in game model if thats what you mean.  I was not the actual architect to design the station no.
i said: you have the photo of your created dome el-rail station?  ::)

Huh...

(http://i.imgur.com/ES1iv6b.jpg)
no. the in-game station? you finished BATing it?  /wrrd%&
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on November 05, 2013, 02:03:19 AM
Now, is there a transition piece from El Tram over AVE-4 to RD-4?

Most definitely there is. I figured I had missed to show a picture of it until now, so here is one. ;)

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/e473156627eae8371445c7d2fcf75ec9.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Gugu3 on November 05, 2013, 03:42:36 AM
Very exciting!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 05, 2013, 05:07:31 AM
Very exciting!
yep. very exciting!  ;D
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Geometry123 on November 05, 2013, 06:24:42 AM
Both will be made. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15675.msg470422#msg470422)

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/106/887/backpain-1292835351.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 05, 2013, 07:11:25 AM
Both will be made. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15675.msg470422#msg470422)

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/106/887/backpain-1292835351.jpg)
i'm waiting in the NAM 32! i hope the AVE-8 and El-Rail over Avenue is in the NAM 32!  ::)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 05, 2013, 02:44:57 PM
I created the in game model if thats what you mean.  I was not the actual architect to design the station no.
i said: you have the photo of your created dome el-rail station?  ::)

Huh...

(http://i.imgur.com/ES1iv6b.jpg)
BAT the station. and name it: Baclaran LRT Station. and post the photo here. good luck!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on November 05, 2013, 05:10:15 PM
I'm just happy with the station that's already made.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 05, 2013, 09:52:33 PM
I'm just happy with the station that's already made.
photo?  :P
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 05, 2013, 09:57:23 PM
I'm just happy with the station that's already made.
photo?  :P

http://i.imgur.com/LJA48JJ.jpg

It's just about completed.  :P
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on November 05, 2013, 09:58:13 PM
Best station.  ::)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 05, 2013, 10:19:07 PM
NO. but the station design is:
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8lJ1v7wTq9qlmLakzLj2sNo3srMCWwkwqFksCAskmxYaBBJwA6w)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: APSMS on November 05, 2013, 11:31:48 PM
No, I think droric nailed it. Looks pretty much like the first reference picture, although the shading is a little off.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Meeston on November 05, 2013, 11:59:08 PM
No, I think droric nailed it. Looks pretty much like the first reference picture, although the shading is a little off.
okay.  ::)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vinlabsc3k on November 07, 2013, 12:23:37 AM
It's incredible, I had this idea 3-4 years ago for its implementation with the elevated rail over the road, but I didn't request it because the members of the NAM Team were involved in other projects.

I have a night render to post as promised.  Let me know what you guys think.

(http://i.imgur.com/pRYY3y4.jpg)

There's a problem, I don't see an avenue under the station ()what()
Or is it only a in-game preview without the rd-4 or ave-4 texture?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on November 07, 2013, 12:55:49 AM
This is not the finished version.  There is now an RD-4 going through the station.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 12, 2013, 01:52:28 AM
Starting to model the next platform.  Early stages be gentle!

(http://i.imgur.com/WcfO00ps.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/WcfO00p.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: noahclem on November 12, 2013, 02:03:59 AM
Lovely work on the night lights  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on November 12, 2013, 02:14:27 AM
My goodness!  It looks just like the station! :o :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 22, 2013, 06:25:50 PM
So i reworked the top of the station since it didn't really accurately reflect how the real station looked.  Here are a couple preliminary images for a new station.

(http://i.imgur.com/Ka0bPNrs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Ka0bPNr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2ogtw2Xs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/2ogtw2X.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eCEB1hOs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/eCEB1hO.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Geometry123 on November 22, 2013, 07:17:38 PM
Perfect! :o
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on November 24, 2013, 05:38:47 PM
I think I have perfected my lighting rig for VRay night.  I love the soft shadows produced by Vrayshadow's area shadow map.  Here is a quick render (takes like 5 seconds its great!) of the platform with the tips lit up.  I promise to have more of the station soon :)


(http://i.imgur.com/kXNni6ns.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/kXNni6n.jpg)

Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on December 20, 2013, 07:05:10 PM
The implementation of this feature is amazing. It's very efficient, though only after learning how to use it.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Geometry123 on December 21, 2013, 05:28:38 AM
I'm in love with the new El-Rail over Avenue/RD-4 pieces! So flexible! One question: Isn't there supposed to be a station for the El-Rail over Avenue? I only got Avenue over RD-4 station. Ah well, there maybe one in the final release or PR2.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on December 21, 2013, 06:38:43 AM
Thanks! I am glad both of you like it so far.

The El-Rail-RD-4 station is the only station currently available. This is because the station building would not fit on the shoulders of the avenue network, but you can easily transition your avenue to a RD-4 for the purpose of placing a station.


By the way, for those of you who have not seen the video yet, here is the link again: [link] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ1D_Cm_gGM). It was made by Ganaram (GDO29Anagram) and shows how these new pieces work.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: GrimSmith on January 06, 2014, 12:16:13 PM
Are there going to be any El-Rail over Ave junction Stations.

Kinda like Broadway Junction in NYC

(http://images.nycsubway.org/i111000/img_111426.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on January 06, 2014, 01:20:44 PM
Are there going to be any El-Rail over Ave junction Stations.


If you could provide more photos of the station I could look into it.  The thing about the avenue station is that the sidewalks are so narrow there is almost no room for the supports let alone stairs or anything else.  It can be done but would most likely be quite a bit out of scale/unrealistic.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: wasso38 on January 11, 2014, 01:32:28 AM
Thanks! I am glad both of you like it so far.

The El-Rail-RD-4 station is the only station currently available. This is because the station building would not fit on the shoulders of the avenue network, but you can easily transition your avenue to a RD-4 for the purpose of placing a station.


By the way, for those of you who have not seen the video yet, here is the link again: [link] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ1D_Cm_gGM). It was made by Ganaram (GDO29Anagram) and shows how these new pieces work.
yeah. it will be not good.  :P but you can use the RD-4 station (if you using the euro textures mod. it will NOT work).  :D
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: GrimSmith on January 11, 2014, 02:39:09 PM
(http://images.nycsubway.org/i47000/img_47455.jpg)

This is another picture of Broadway Junction Station, in Brooklyn, NY. Yes, that is an El over Ave Station. KInda looks like a hot mess, doesn't it?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: memo on January 11, 2014, 02:48:16 PM
For the record, these are the coordinates: https://maps.google.de/?ll=40.678956,-73.903018&spn=0.003751,0.004511&t=h&z=18 (https://maps.google.de/?ll=40.678956,-73.903018&spn=0.003751,0.004511&t=h&z=18)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vinlabsc3k on January 15, 2014, 06:44:31 PM
Sorry if already asked, but there isn't a transition ramp between ELR over AVE and GLR in AVE. ()what()
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on January 15, 2014, 06:49:01 PM
Sorry if already asked, but there isn't a transition ramp between ELR over AVE and GLR in AVE. ()what()

You are correct.  There currently is not a transition piece between EL-Rail Over AVE to GLR in Ave.  I find a piece like that is much needed so perhaps once i finish up a couple other projects I will look into making a piece like this for a future release.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: dossenaandrea on January 18, 2014, 06:14:52 AM
hi! i've istalled the new nam but i only have the straight pieces! where do i find the curves and intersection pieces??
thanks
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vinlabsc3k on January 18, 2014, 09:59:25 AM
hi! i've istalled the new nam but i only have the straight pieces! where do i find the curves and intersection pieces??
thanks

Follow this tutorial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ1D_Cm_gGM) ;)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on January 26, 2014, 07:39:48 PM
Sorry if already asked, but there isn't a transition ramp between ELR over AVE and GLR in AVE. ()what()

You are correct.  There currently is not a transition piece between EL-Rail Over AVE to GLR in Ave.  I find a piece like that is much needed so perhaps once i finish up a couple other projects I will look into making a piece like this for a future release.

Well I just finished this up.  Something to look forward to in a future update :)


Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Kuewr665 on January 26, 2014, 09:48:16 PM
That's great!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vinlabsc3k on January 26, 2014, 10:04:56 PM
Good to view the progress!! :thumbsup:

I hope that a new NAM is developed sooner this time to implement this ramp and the RRW! &hlp
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Gugu3 on January 27, 2014, 07:59:04 AM
Amazing stuff Droric! &apls
Thank you :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: mrdobalina on January 28, 2014, 03:29:25 PM
Great Droric, that is exactly the missing link I was looking for! It will be a nice way to connect GLR to El-rail, and it will make it possible to let the trains leave the tram-avenue without crossing the road traffic.
Looking forward to find it in the NAM!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on January 28, 2014, 03:40:42 PM
Thanks for the kind comments from everyone!  This puzzle piece was the first one I created using what has been called a 'morph curve'.  This piece will automatically update the texture for the curved road surface if the texture for the avenue is changed.  The curved texture is achieved using some curved geometry and custom UVW mapping.  I plan on using this process whenever possible as it makes it much easier on people who create alternate texture sets as they do not need to account for these.

Here is a quick example with the white marker lines colored yellow.  This was an earlier version of the piece before I had the pylon in.

(http://i.imgur.com/wr6prN3.png)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: max19950324 on February 01, 2014, 12:42:30 AM
Guys I have a question: Now that we have a basic system of this, is it possible to make a diagonal entry like ElRail over Road does? You know, that transition piece that I can drag ElRail diagonally from the transition piece.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: ei8htx on February 15, 2014, 12:34:50 PM
Guys I have a question: Now that we have a basic system of this, is it possible to make a diagonal entry like ElRail over Road does? You know, that transition piece that I can drag ElRail diagonally from the transition piece.

I tried this with the avenue, and it does it, but it's graphically missing a piece (not sure if it actually works, I undid it).  Doesn't work with road 4. 

Can't wait till the El rail to GLR in avenue piece is available.  Will make it way easier to then immediately transition to a subway in avenue to get under things like highways.  I don't suppose this can be made available as a separate download?

Anyways, I'd like to thank everyone for making this possible.  I'm using it quite extensively in 2 of my cities already.  Thanks guys!
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on February 15, 2014, 01:03:07 PM
A diagonal entry piece is planned although it will need to be a puzzle (i believe).  The reason the puzzle piece can't be distributed without a new NAM is that the controller code needs to change for the puzzle piece to be made available.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: ei8htx on February 22, 2014, 03:52:05 PM
Droric, would you be willing to release the El Rail to GLR in avenue as a separate download?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: MandelSoft on February 22, 2014, 04:42:38 PM
He can't. It would require an update of the NAM Controller, which is not easy for the casual user (frankly, only NAM members know how to do that and it's not that easy).
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: ei8htx on February 22, 2014, 08:53:42 PM
He can't. It would require an update of the NAM Controller, which is not easy for the casual user (frankly, only NAM members know how to do that and it's not that easy).

Oh I misread that as applying to 45 degree offshoot pieces.  Sorry, thanks.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: z on February 22, 2014, 08:58:41 PM
Oh I misread that as applying to 45 degree offshoot pieces.  Sorry, thanks.

It applies to both.  Most things the NAM Team does with networks require changes to the controller.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Crimsonsky80 on May 20, 2014, 03:01:07 PM
Is there a stand alone download for the EL Rail mod instead of getting the Whole NAM?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: droric on May 20, 2014, 03:22:51 PM
The only distribution method for receiving the El-Rail mod seen in this thread is to download the NAM package.  You are not required to install every component of the NAM and can customize which features you need.  This is due to the complexity in installing the mods where loading order and other settings need to be carefully managed by the installer.

Also please note that a few pieces shown in this thread are not available yet for NAM 32 as they were developed shortly after release.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: mrsmartman on June 21, 2014, 11:59:28 AM
Your mod is great. Thanks a lot. Despite the noise of trains, I like the el so much as it was really innovative and cyber to run trains on top of busy roads. Fast and efficient. Usually, the older el runs on road 4 and modern el runs on avenue. Looking forward to more pieces in the future.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: deora on June 23, 2014, 05:29:31 AM
Sweet,love the new El Avenue to GLR Avenue piece.This will surely help developing the city and also saves a lot of space as an elegant ramp instead of make the El bending left or right off the Avenue and then attach a transition piece or something.
I assume there will also be a few more stations for the future release,right?
Don`t understand me wrong,the glass MTA Station looks neat (love the nightlighting) but sometimes just won`t fit the surrounding cityscape.
My favs would be the New York like Stations used for the El Rail on Road double Network.
Besides that,i really appreciate the great effort and hard work that all you guys put into this game.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: kildjan on July 06, 2014, 04:00:07 PM
Hi, I'm not sure if the previous answer was for the diagonal transition or for the GLR avenue to el rail over avenue transition...
Is the GLR avenue to el rail over avenue transition available for download somewhere ?
I updated my NAM a few weeks ago and would love to insert some el rail over avenue in place of some GLR avenue sections, so this would really help me...
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: GDO29Anagram on July 06, 2014, 04:02:49 PM
Is the GLR avenue to el rail over avenue transition available for download somwhere ?

It's currently unavailable; you'd have to wait for the next NAM update.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: kildjan on September 26, 2016, 12:51:55 PM
I installed the last 34 version of NAM, glad to see the el-rail over avenue to GLR is there, but I still cannot find any station for the el-rail over avenue network.
I looked into NAM and also for separate addons.
What I would like is something similar to other el-rail/GLR networks, meaning :
- a simple station
- a station with bus stop
- a bus stop without station
And maybe :
- a station with subway stop
- a subway stop without station
- a station with bus stop and subway stop

I searched on this site, other sites, even Google, but could not find any station, just some network pieces.
Problem is that putting the pieces to convert the el-rail to glr and then put some glr on avenue stations takes way too much cases to make it a viable solution.
I'm not a fan of the separate el-rail station either, I would like to keep the whole thing on the road cases, for me that's a major point of the NAM networks.
If there is no station at all, maybe some 'el-rail over avenue' to 'el-rail over road' transition pieces could do the job, but that would need el-rail over ONE WAY road pieces to keep the avenue below.

Any suggestion ?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Seaman on September 26, 2016, 01:27:20 PM
I'm not aware of an el-rail over avenue station, but if you transition to RD-4, then there is this one since NAM 32:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ1D_Cm_gGM&t=2m27s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ1D_Cm_gGM&t=2m27s).

(I am not on my gaming rig right now, so I hope the link will do the job)

edit: the Ave-4/RD-4 transition is in the same video at 1:35.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: mgb204 on September 26, 2016, 04:51:54 PM
Indeed to my knowledge, so such stations exist currently. There is only one for the El over RD-4 network, but you can transition very easily between the two for the station, then back to Ave-4 thereafter.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: kildjan on September 26, 2016, 06:36:27 PM
OK... my bad  :)
I never explored the NWM network, so I'll check this, could be nice !
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: noahclem on May 15, 2017, 10:40:41 PM
Was trying to figure some things out for a section of elevated rail over avenue and then came across some great looking tracks from some mod. Does anyone know where I can find this or if it was ever released?

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8228/axx5.jpg)
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: Mikey Knox on May 16, 2017, 04:28:13 AM
Isnt that a default NAM Station (Morgan Lake)?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: noahclem on May 16, 2017, 06:27:25 AM
Yes, but I'm referring to the track itself with its brown color
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: JoeST on May 16, 2017, 06:52:21 AM
is it buddybuds? the thread http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2913.0 had a bunch of pictures but they're all gone.... from what I remember it was meant to be wooden sleepers?
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: vester on May 16, 2017, 04:04:00 PM
The station was created by Droric.

Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: mgb204 on May 16, 2017, 10:34:08 PM
If it was Buddybud's, I don't think they are available anywhere, though some people around here managed to get a preview copy.

I know you are probably not looking to take on a new texturing project. But actually, El-Rail doesn't have very many textures at all (27 original Maxis ones, maybe a handful of new ones added in NAM). With your skills you could probably easily make a similar set of tracks.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: noahclem on May 17, 2017, 12:03:29 PM
Thanks Robin! Sounds almost too easy, what's the catch?  ;D  Unfortunately I've never been good at finding stuff in the Maxis .dats--quite bad at it actually. Do you know where I could find the textures to modify?

EDIT: No longer need info on location of the textures in the Maxis dats; hope to start work shortly on some retexturing and realigning to RRW or RLR geometry. RRW would be first choice but RLR wouldn't require any path changes.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: b22rian on May 17, 2017, 04:22:16 PM
Noah,

Please keep us all updated on your progress...

Thanks for trying to put all this together for us man

brian
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: noahclem on May 17, 2017, 07:06:09 PM
Thanks again, Brian :)  Looking at the set, it seems indeed in pretty good shape, certainly worth using for me. Besides some odd behavior with t21s appearing and disappearing with clicking around, the mod seems to lack T21s for NWMs and RHWs. I've never done anything with t21s before, though I have had interest. Without knowing much of the system, I imagine it wouldn't be the hardest work to do with them as all the tiles get essentially the same T21. Anyway, if I do make any progress on it I'll be sure to keep everyone informed  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: mgb204 on May 17, 2017, 08:21:07 PM
I found the El-Rail T21s easy enough to work with, although I'm working with Moonlights set personally.

The answer to finding the El-Rail textures (which I think you've done) is look in SimCity_3.dat. I am looking at making a RRW Reskin like repository for them in future, since there are so few textures, it's not a lot of work. The problem with RRW spec rails is that El-Rail will meet GLR, there is no way to transition the rails at that point. So for my money, I'd keep the existing system. Of course if you have RRW spec rails for GLR, that may not be such a problem. But otherwise, a re spec of the GLR system is a gigantic effort by comparison, which I'm sure you know all too well.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: b22rian on May 18, 2017, 05:01:05 AM
Well I do recall Buddy Bud telling me he felt that entire mod was about 90 % completed...

It does seem likely also that the missing 10 % was related to RHW, because I vaguely recall him mentioning this to me..But still it cant hurt for me to do a search around my other related Sc 4 files and see if i could be still missing some files which might prove helpful to Noah..

Of course if you want to do the T-21 yourselves that fine of course as im thinking now that had something to do with the missing 10 % he was referring too..

I didnt have the necessary knowledge to really assist him as far as the modding goes, but I was helpful to him in regards to testing things for him because I had working cities in game..

Of course we all wish the modding legend was still around, and so perhaps he will run across these postings one day  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: b22rian on May 18, 2017, 05:44:12 AM
Noah,

i did find another collection of BB files . Seems to be a lot of files in this folder also. But these may be quite relevant to you as they were the working files that BB and i were testing just before his departure..I am sure some of these are likely duplicates, but there did seem to be files of interest here also.. for example a sub folder named - rural hwy..

in any event I have made this second zip file available to you under the name Buddy Bud 2 , in our nam drop box folder..

Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: deora on May 18, 2017, 12:42:01 PM
Reading the last few Posts makes me feel exited...some new Textures for the El Rail sound great :bnn: :popcorn:
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: noahclem on May 19, 2017, 07:43:16 AM
Thanks for the second batch of files, Brian :)  I haven't yet had a chance to thoroughly go through all the files but feel like my experimentation so far gives me a pretty good idea of what the situation is. First, the set is already pretty nice the way it is and all the most basic functions work, though sometimes a bit of clicking around is required. Junctions have more problems with missing t21 models that often can't be resolved by clicking around. All of the necessary models do seem to be complete however, meaning it's at least possible to finish the mod based on the material available. An exception to that would be the different supports needed for the el-rail/road/avenue dual networking pieces which have different geometries and seem like they'd be fine to have in a different style anyway. The rail textures (not t21s) seem to work for all but a handful of less-used pieces such as on-slope double-height and several el-over-road junctions and those fixes shouldn't be difficult. The bulk of the work would seem to be getting the t21s to behave properly with the existing stuff and extending those to all the rhw, nwm, and other pieces. It's probably beyond my ability and available time to do all the t21 work necessary, though I'll likely take a stab at it anyway.

With the rail textures essentially already done and apparently not difficult to modify, it may make more sense in the nearer term to make a mod based on only that available, depending on buddybud's thoughts on that if his own work were to be shared that way. Since I want RRW gauge rails anyway and since I don't want to incorporate someone else's textures in it that I don't have permission to remake and redistribute, I've already started working on textures that would be compatible with my long in-progress RLR mod, using some of my old sleepers with gradients on the edges for the wood and my tram rails for the rails.

Anyway, whether or not it would be considered 90% done would depend on what the intended scope was. For regular el-rail stuff I'd say that's probably the case but when it includes all the different stuff el-rail can do I'd say there's quite a bit remaining to be done. Will keep you guys updated with any further finds on the existing material or progress on expanding or retexturing el-rail stuff.
Title: Re: NAM: El-Rail over Avenue
Post by: b22rian on May 19, 2017, 01:40:43 PM
thanks also to you Noah  :thumbsup:

I know if Buddy Bud were around he would love to work with you to complete this mod ..

He is also of course in a better position than I am to know whats missing here and what still needs to be completed..

Perhaps there is some kind soul out there , who still knows how to contact Buddy Bud and let him know what we are up to ...

I bet with this long lay off hes had, he would be enthused to finish this Mod, if he knew he had help to complete it..