Sim City 4 Devotion Forums

SimCity 4 Devotion Custom Content Showcase => Independent Development Projects => Independent BAT (Building Architect Tool) Projects => Topic started by: Rady on July 24, 2011, 08:53:23 AM

Title: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on July 24, 2011, 08:53:23 AM
Ok, so finally I decided to mover deeper into SC4 and start BATing on my own. COmpared by what I see in the other posts around here, my stage of BATing is somewhat between "bloody noob" and "completely lost" ...  :P

However I want to open up my own thread since after a few hours of working with gmax questions are amounting and I would be glad if all you BAT masters would share a little knowledge with me so I can improve my techniques.

So, first of all - what I'm working on is my barn:

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/770/barnf.jpg)

and what I've got so far is this:

(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1921/barn1r.jpg)

So, basically, there are some similarities ...

And now to my problems:

Problem #1

I created the rafters for my barn, and now the axis that are shown when selecting the object have moved away from the center of the object:

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4743/gmax1.jpg)

Of course now it's impossible for me to set the object to certain coordinates because of this offset ...? So how would I do to align the origin of the axis with the center of the object?

Problem #2

I started applying textures, and it went out fine for the roof. The texture file used looks similar to what I get in gmax:

Texture file:

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2144/rooftilesceramicold0014.png)

Compared with above picture of my barn in gmax this is fine.

However for the wall texture this is not true. This is the texture file:

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6159/plasterwhite0066s.jpg)

As you can see, the texture is much darker (browner?) in the gmax, and it even looks worse in the resulting fsh file. So how could I lighten up the material in gmax? I haven't found any means to do so. When enabling the Color Map in the Material Editor, changing the output line doesn't reflect in any change in my texture as applied to my wall ...

So, thank's a lot in advance for you support!!





Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's fist BAT attempts
Post by: Girafe on July 24, 2011, 09:25:57 AM

Always a good new when a new batter decide to do a step futher in the world of modelisation.

For the problem 1, I am not sure to understand.

If you want to align it you have an icon at the left of X button. It allows you to set how do you want to align your shape (pivot center).

If you want to align all your work it's easier. Group all your elements and center it with the axis 0.0.0

Problem 2:

Have a look at the modifier UVW map it's the basic of texturing.
You can check too the coordinates of the textures in the material editor, you have few options for manipulating your textures.

Never forget that in combinaison of BAT you need to work your texture in a software like Gimp or photoshop
You can't aim that the texture is too brown before previewing as the only the preview is what you will have in the game.

If indeed texture is too brown on the preview, modify it on photoshop or gimp :)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's fist BAT attempts
Post by: Aaron Graham on July 24, 2011, 09:30:36 AM
Look nice, you need to work on your texture like Girafe said, textures are made not find. :D

What is your Grid coordinates, if it's 2.0 divide it by 2, when it comes to bating you will need to know a little math.
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on July 24, 2011, 09:31:13 AM
Thanks Girafe,

I already managed to improve on problem #2 by lightening the texture in GIMP.  As for problm #1, it's lie this: If you create e.g. a rectangle, the coordinate axis is set at the center of this rectangle. Now when moving the object, you exactly can calculate how far you need to move based on the origin of the axis. For my ravters, the axis somehow origins away from one would assume to be the "center". I already got the information by nvbc that I can move the axis only by selecting "affect pivot only" in the hierarchy menu.


Edit:

Ok, let's discuss the further work: That's how I have come so far:

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8108/barn2z.jpg)

The problems can clearly be seen:

#1: At the corner, there's a seperation in the wall texture. Basically that's where the two wall elements intersect. How to avoid this?

#2: I assigned a texture to the front door, but it seems there's no texture at the back. So as a general texturing problem: How can I decide on which sides of a standard primitive the texture will appear? E.g., for the door: the texture should be on all sides of the door. But for the wall, I would like to have a different texture at the outer and the inner side?

Edit #2: Final results for today:

GMAX:

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7093/barn32.jpg)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8193/barn31.jpg)

and the results from exporting:

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7130/barn13.png)

(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/2973/barn12.png)

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/845/barn11.png)

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/576/barn14.png)

Anyone feel free to comment!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Buzzit on July 24, 2011, 05:36:58 PM
that looks pretty good! :)
do you have the HD rendering script?
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Girafe on July 24, 2011, 05:45:41 PM
At first you have to set up the HD script of simfox above all for tiny things like this.

Concerning you texture problem:

- try the modifier UVW and select box

- you can tiled you texture on gimp

- you can use 1/2 texture that you miror

- you can merge all your walls and put only 1 texture

- you can use something like this:

(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/f3268663308565859293fd9267d6e066.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on July 25, 2011, 12:28:51 AM
that looks pretty good! :)
do you have the HD rendering script?

Uhhhh.... hhhh...   ???  Let's have a look ..  %confuso .. no, it's not here ... neither here ...   ()what() .. what & where exactly would I want to look for that tiny thinggy?


At first you have to set up the HD script of simfox above all for tiny things like this.

Uhmm... see above ..

Concerning you texture problem:

- try the modifier UVW and select box

yes, this render is already with the UVW-box settings to "Box"

- you can tiled you texture on gimp
- you can use 1/2 texture that you miror

I keep that in mind ..

- you can merge all your walls and put only 1 texture

Will try this!

- you can use something like this:
(http://www.ld-host.de/uploads/images/f3268663308565859293fd9267d6e066.jpg) (http://www.ld-host.de/)

Yep, this came to my mind yesterday when I went to sleep ... I will have a look at these things!

*Off searching for that HD script thinggy*  %confuso

Edit (Jul, 25th):

Managed to find Simfox' GMAX script and plugged it in. Then I followed Girafe's hint and changed the wall to parallelograms as well as combined the upper and lower walls IOT have them have one common texture.

And this is the result of today's (short) BATing session:

GMAX:

(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/5359/barn41.jpg)

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/889/barn42.jpg)

and the (HD) BAT export:

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1112/barn44.png)

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3566/barn43.png)

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8735/barn41.png)

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9879/barn42.png)

So, quite a difference! The only thing that I discovered was that the hinged sliding door on the side wall of the first floor is missing it's texture ... despite the texture is still applied in GMAX, as you can clearly see.
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on July 26, 2011, 02:10:33 PM
Got a little more into detailing the barn, and have to admit that I run into several problems. Have a look:

I've started to build the raingutter. Worked out fine apart from the following problems:

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1200/problem1g.jpg)

1) How do I cut on (editable mesh/poly) along the borders of another? Like in this picture, I would like to cut the vertical connector (red) right where it intersects the gutter (green)

2) How do I align two objects that are not oriented alon the x,y,z-axis? It was easy to align the connector to the first bow, since all I had to do is to aligne maximum/minimum value along the vertical axis. But how can I align the short tube (blue, angeled 60) with the end of the first bow (green)?

3) Situation 3 only is the sum of all problems ...

Next problem: I would like to have an old oil barrel to collect water from the gutter. Now how would I model these "rings" that are typical for an oil barrel?

(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7274/problem2v.jpg)

(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8921/oelfass.jpg)

I tried to select the edges that from the ring and kinda extrude them, but that doesnt work.

Finally, I tried to give that little ramp a rougher look, since the edges are far to sharp and straight. Is there a modifier that can do that? Tried the "Noise" and "Relax" one, but didn't  work.,
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: vester on July 26, 2011, 02:32:52 PM
About the drainpibe,

You could use lines. Click Display Mesh in the mesh setting. Here you can also change the thickness of the lines.

If you click on Attach the can merge different elements.
The you need the weld the vertices.


Guess you are using mesh. Here you can also attach other meshs to one.
Then select the vertices and weld them.
Maybe you can select the vertices on the other side of the red line of yours and remove them.

On the barrel. You could draw up the outline of it and use the Lathe function (http://tutorialsfor3dsmax.blogspot.com/2010/10/wine-glass-3ds-max-modeling-tutorial.html) on it.

To round edges you could use chamfer on the edges you want to soften up. Just once.


One thing to always keep in mind. The scale of the game. What can be seen or not.
Like... the top of the drain pipe. I would leave it as it is.

(PS: Using 3ds max, a bit different, bot some of the same basics tools)

Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: supremec on July 29, 2011, 08:14:19 AM
A very good start with the B.A.T. tool  &apls  &apls
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on August 01, 2011, 01:03:46 PM
@ vester: thanks for your advice, I will work on the barrel later. Of course you're right about the level of detail in SC4, so I could forget about detailling the raingutter. However, since this is my first BAT project, I also want to learn how gmax works. So I will dwell a little deeper into that topic. At the moment I'm stunned by the fact that a 3D modelling software doesn't have a "cut object A along the outline of object B"-function by default .... will see.

@ buzzit: already got the HD rendering script as you can see from the posted images!

@ supremec: thanks!

Now, today I wanted to put my still unfinished work on a lot IOT use it in-game and compare it to other buildings taht would be assuemd to go along with that barn (like e.g. farms). Here comes massive frustration, part #2  :'(

I exported it from gmax, started SC4 Plugin Manager and assigend the building to the "Landmark" category. Then, I fired up Lot Editor, selected a simple 1x1 Landmark Lot and tried to put my barn on it. Which failed, because in gmax I centered the scene on the tile, not on the axis origin (easy to deal with that, anyway). So I changed the Lot size to 2x2 and plaxed my cute barn (extracted from the Model file using iLIve's Reader):

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/6182/barn51.png)

(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/896/barn52.png)

Worked out fine, expet for the fact that my barn isn't looking cute anymore. As a matter of fact, it isn't looking at all ... all I got was this:

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5141/problem31.jpg)

which changed (but obviously not improved) to this at the two closest zoom levels:

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3421/problem32.jpg)

 %bur2$

Now ... please help!   :P
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: peter007 on August 01, 2011, 01:26:55 PM
Just re-fit the LODS & export again.
Great work on your farm BTW
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: vester on August 01, 2011, 02:40:56 PM
At the moment I'm stunned by the fact that a 3D modelling software doesn't have a "cut object A along the outline of object B"-function by default

Well it does, but is faulted. It is called boolean, but does work that well in gmax.


(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3421/problem32.jpg)
Start a new scene/file in gmax and merge the old file into it (you might need to leave out the Lods).
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on August 01, 2011, 05:06:56 PM
@ Peter007: Thanks! Did that in combination with vester's advice - se result below!

@ vester: Thanks! Merging into a new scene (with deleting the LODs first) worked out fine. As for the boolean function .... I will investigate in that later.

Now here are some in-game pictures for general discussion: The size of the barn seems to fit compared with the houses in these pictures, but not with the large stable. However, when comparing the size of JMyers stable to the house next to it, the stable seemds kinda oversized, too (as far as the dimension of the door and windows is concerened), so this might not be a proper object for comparison:

Picture #1: Comparison of the house, cars etc. with the size of my barn - seems to be ok:

(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2136/ingame11.jpg)

Picture #2: Compared with the house, the dimensions seem to be ok:

(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/6487/ingame13.jpg)

Picture #3: Same lot from JMyers as before, but now compared with JMyers stable - my barn is way to small:

(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6964/ingame12.jpg)

In addition (as far as a I see what needs to be done):


What do you think about the wall texture .. I would think it could be ok ... possibly I should add some dirt at the base area, but I'm overall satisfied how the white turned out .. not to white, but not grey, either.

Glad to read your thoughts on my barn!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: peter007 on August 01, 2011, 06:05:28 PM
Great progress.

About the scale of your farms.
I think that the height is very good for your building. You only have to adjust the scale on the X- Y-Axis.
Don't you think?
And regarding your question about texturing. I would look how other buildings are and find some tutorials about texturing. You may need a good site to search for textures like;
http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php (http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php)
But you have to know that textures are made not found so you always have to manipulate your textures a bit. Otherwise they may look odd or just not good enough. Sometimes you have to tear the textures apart or maybe just adding some decals. You can even add some details and relief in it, but since you're not going to model it in I guess you can leave that out.

If you want to know more you can always PM me. I will try as hard as I can to give you some proper advice.

-Ernst
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on August 02, 2011, 02:02:32 AM
Great progress.

Thank you!

About the scale of your farms.
I think that the height is very good for your building. You only have to adjust the scale on the X- Y-Axis.
Don't you think?

So what you are saying is that I should enlarge the x/y dimension, I suppose? I will give it a try and save it as an extra model so we can compare the outcome in-game.

And regarding your question about texturing. I would look how other buildings are and find some tutorials about texturing. You may need a good site to search for textures like;
http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php (http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php)

Thanks, the textures used here are from that site actually. What I have to learn now is how to "age" the texture, like to add dirt and signs of usage ..  "$Deal"$

If you want to know more you can always PM me. I will try as hard as I can to give you some proper advice.

Thanks, I will remember that offer in times of despair ..  ;D


Rady
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: peter007 on August 02, 2011, 04:00:05 AM
Quote
And regarding your question about texturing. I would look how other buildings are and find some tutorials about texturing. You may need a good site to search for textures like;
http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php (http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php)

So what you are saying is that I should enlarge the x/y dimension, I suppose? I will give it a try and save it as an extra model so we can compare the outcome in-game.

Well I think that you should better reduce the X- Y- axis  ;)

-Ernst
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Girafe on August 02, 2011, 05:18:27 AM
be dirty on your textures !!  :P
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on August 02, 2011, 06:42:22 AM
be dirty on your textures !!  :P

verrry dirrrty!!   :P  I will give it a try!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Aaron Graham on August 02, 2011, 10:35:26 AM
Look good, just do what they said. :D
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on August 03, 2011, 02:29:22 PM
Well I think that you should better reduce the X- Y- axis  ;)
-Ernst

Ok, did so. Reduced the x, y dimension to 88% (now pls. don't ask "why 88%?". It just seemed to be a proper value ...)

Look good, just do what they said. :D

Yesssirr!!


Now, for today, a few in-game pictures how the resized barn fits into the environment:

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3945/ingame21.jpg)

(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/2337/ingame23.jpg)

(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/7393/ingame24.jpg)

(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3923/ingame22.jpg)

What do you think?


The next thing I will concentrate on is the textures for the roof and the walls, and of course I immediately run into the next problem. I applied a new texture to the front wall in GMAX, and this is what it looks likein the perspective view:

(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5141/problem31.jpg)

However, the rendering proces end up with that (extracted from the Reader):

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3421/problem32.jpg)

As you clearly can see, the texture isn't rendered correctly - the dirt strains are missing ??? ... any suggestions are warmly welcomed!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: peter007 on August 03, 2011, 05:11:42 PM
Have you UVW mapped or unwrapped your textures?
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: harishna on August 03, 2011, 06:30:53 PM
sometimes the textures in gmax "disappear" this is a very common and annoying problem, I'll recommend you to start by cleaning your scene materials get rid of all the un-used ones. Then before rendering click on all the little checkered box (the white and blue one) even if its on, click off and on again and do this for all your textures. Some people apply all the textures to a dummy object before exporting, but I think if you follow what I suggested once you will be fine until it happens again :).
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: mattb325 on August 03, 2011, 10:02:19 PM
Hello Rady, this is a great first BAT. I'm really glad to see all the little details that you have added to the walls, roof etc. It really makes the model very interesting.

However, this model is still underscaled on the z axis. The sims - giants that they are - are taller than your barn doors  :)

I would recommend scaling it up by at least 20% (I'm aware this is only supposed to be a small, 1.5 storey barn). The width is fine, but the BAT is a little shallow; once you have scaled it on the z axis, you may have to tweak the depth as well.

I would make sure that your first floor is no less than 4.5 meters tall. This will be larger than the single storey low-wealth Maxis homes that you are comparing it to, but will fit in better with most of the content (Maxis and custom).

Additionally, as Girafe mentioned, don't be afraid to dirty up your textures in photo-editing software. At the moment, your roof texture doesn't really blend in with the textures around it and certainly doesn't render the same in game as in your viewport previews.

There has been much talk over the years on why and how to fix textures (so I won't go into the details here - a search of some of the many BAT tutorials will yield results) but suffice it to say that all textures need tweaking prior to using them in the BAT

I have taken the liberty of making a couple of very minor tweaks which took only a moment or so:
* Desaturated the texture by about 20%
* Added a russet/brownish gradient
* Made some very quick dodge/burns

All up it took less than a minute, and was done in the GIMP - a free tool.

You could add moss, water stains and so on. The same could be done with the walls: but the results will definitely allow your barn to fit in with the games' pallette

Good luck :thumbsup:  :satisfied:
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on August 04, 2011, 08:08:35 AM
Have you UVW mapped or unwrapped your textures?

Yes, I do have an UVM-Map applied ..

sometimes the textures in gmax "disappear" this is a very common and annoying problem, I'll recommend you to start by cleaning your scene materials get rid of all the un-used ones. Then before rendering click on all the little checkered box (the white and blue one) even if its on, click off and on again and do this for all your textures. Some people apply all the textures to a dummy object before exporting, but I think if you follow what I suggested once you will be fine until it happens again :).

OK, I will see .. I also thought about simply importing it into a new scene file to see if that helps. Normally, before exporting, I manually delete the LODs and the xref scene, then I re-create the LODs and re-set the lights an cameras.

Hello Rady, this is a great first BAT. I'm really glad to see all the little details that you have added to the walls, roof etc. It really makes the model very interesting.

Thanks you! Posts like this help me get over the setbacks more easy.

However, this model is still underscaled on the z axis. The sims - giants that they are - are taller than your barn doors  :)

I would recommend scaling it up by at least 20% (I'm aware this is only supposed to be a small, 1.5 storey barn). The width is fine, but the BAT is a little shallow; once you have scaled it on the z axis, you may have to tweak the depth as well.

I would make sure that your first floor is no less than 4.5 meters tall. This will be larger than the single storey low-wealth Maxis homes that you are comparing it to, but will fit in better with most of the content (Maxis and custom).

OK, will do so. Actually, taken from the real object, the ground floor is 3 m high, the scond floor is about 4 m over all (top of ground floor to top of roof). From what I heard/read so far I took my real vertical values times 1,3 to get the game vertical values.

Additionally, as Girafe mentioned, don't be afraid to dirty up your textures in photo-editing software. At the moment, your roof texture doesn't really blend in with the textures around it and certainly doesn't render the same in game as in your viewport previews.

There has been much talk over the years on why and how to fix textures (so I won't go into the details here - a search of some of the many BAT tutorials will yield results) but suffice it to say that all textures need tweaking prior to using them in the BAT

I have taken the liberty of making a couple of very minor tweaks which took only a moment or so:
* Desaturated the texture by about 20%
* Added a russet/brownish gradient
* Made some very quick dodge/burns

All up it took less than a minute, and was done in the GIMP - a free tool.

You could add moss, water stains and so on. The same could be done with the walls: but the results will definitely allow your barn to fit in with the games' pallette

Yes, that's the really hard part indeed. I've been woking with GIMP for a long time now, since I'm doing desktop publishing for a hobby, so I do have quite some knowledge. However I still have to learn a lot until I'll arrive at your skills ... Thanks indeed for the altered texture, it will be a good "tutorial" trying to reproduce that with my current texture.

Good luck :thumbsup:  :satisfied:

Thank's, this is well needed
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on August 07, 2011, 05:15:35 PM
Ok, worked a little on the texture part ... here's what I've got so far. I'm still batteling the fact that the textures do look so differently in GIMP and gmax and then finally in the rendered image. It's like one would use three completely different textures ... makes it kinda hard to find the right texture without trying several times ..


I haven't tweaked the proportions yet ... so let's discuss the textures:


(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5558/barn64.png)

(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8971/barn63.png)

(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9626/barn62.png)

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4791/barn61.png)


I'm quite satisfied with the front view. The decals on the rear wall seems kinda too big, whereas the decals on the left side (above the additional roof) are way to small. Maybe I will put some additional junk at the rear wall, so that the decals on the wall are not the only "eyecatcher".

Bit .. let's hear your comments!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: namspopof on August 07, 2011, 06:00:29 PM
Good.
Perhaps decrease the brigthness.  ;)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Buzzit on August 07, 2011, 06:05:52 PM
decrease brightness a bit and you got a really nice building  :)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Girafe on August 07, 2011, 06:19:17 PM
I agree with my two colleges, decrease the brightness,

and surely by decreasing it you will have to increase a little bit the saturation to keep a nice color

 ;)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on August 08, 2011, 07:56:27 AM
@ Girafe, Buzzit, namspopof: thank's for your advice. I will take care of that as soon as RL allows me so.

Meanwhile, maybe time for some questions of general BAT interest:

#1: In the material editor, when selecting a texture bitmap, I can open the respective dialog both with the button at "ambient" and "diffuse" --> what's the difference? And sometimes one of these little buttons has disappeared (mostly the "ambient" one) ...  ()what()

#2: when "picking" a material from an existing object, I have access to the section called "basic blinn parameters" where e.g. I am able to set the "color" value, which kinda works as brightness correction (as far as I observed). How do I access this section right after creating and assigning the material to an object? Right now I have to deselect the object and re-select the material with said "pick" function to access this section?

#3: What's it all about this "poly count"?? Is this just a gmax problem for rendering? Or is this something related to how many objects I do hve in the LE? And is there a common measure the poly count should not exceed?

Edit: Found some time this evening, and this is how far I have come. Increased the height by appr. 20%, and also increased the depth a little, as suggested by matt. Tweaked the roof texture as suggested by girafe, buzzit & namspopof.

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8812/ingame71.jpg)

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/8287/ingame73.jpg)

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5149/ingame72.jpg)


Some thoughts on my side:
#1: the trailer (underneath the fly roof) seems a little bit too small
#2: the pallet (see red circle in pic #2) should be somewhat larger, too, IOT to be recognized as what it is.

Now .. your time for comments, folks!  :P
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Buzzit on August 08, 2011, 06:56:39 PM
woah it looks really awesome now!
can't wait to find that building in my simworld  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Girafe on August 08, 2011, 07:05:38 PM
Good progress indeed

I am not an expert on Gmax, I left long time ago but the texture stay according to me a little bit too bright above all the wood texture.

However your colors fit well with the other BATs especially the farm.

But for a first attempt it's really nice  ;)

Regarding you #3 poly account, it's how your model is heavy. It counts all the poly of your scene.
It deals only on Gmax or another 3D software but has any incidence on LE (Gmax is 3D after exporting your have only images so 2D)

There is not an appropriate "limit" for exporting. The only limit you have is how many polys my computer can render. After this your computer and gmax will bug and stop.

But don't be afraid if you have a recent computer and your are rendering tiny things as you do there will never be problems.

(On 3dsmax, for some project we can rise 5 millions polys).
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on August 09, 2011, 05:03:42 PM
@ Buzzit: Thanks ... unfortunately I think you will still need some patience until this is released on the LEX ...  :-[

@ girafe: Thanks! I worked on the wall texture again and toned it down, but it still seems to be a little bit too bright ... on the other hand, it resembles my barn nicely, so ... let's see.

So, now back to our DOC (Desired Objects of Comparison  ;)) - here we go with the latest results:

(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3518/ingame81.jpg)

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3317/ingame82.jpg)

(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8210/ingame84.jpg)

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7/ingame83.jpg)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: jmyers2043 on September 01, 2011, 07:31:23 AM
Hi Rady

..... #1: In the material editor, when selecting a texture bitmap, I can open the respective dialog both with the button at "ambient" and "diffuse" --> what's the difference? And sometimes one of these little buttons has disappeared (mostly the "ambient" one) ...  ()what()

#2: when "picking" a material from an existing object, I have access to the section called "basic blinn parameters" where e.g. I am able to set the "color" value, which kinda works as brightness correction (as far as I observed). How do I access this section right after creating and assigning the material to an object? Right now I have to deselect the object and re-select the material with said "pick" function to access this section?

#3: What's it all about this "poly count"?? Is this just a gmax problem for rendering? Or is this something related to how many objects I do hve in the LE? And is there a common measure the poly count should not exceed?

I'd like to be able to answer your question but I can not. I don't think many use those parameters either. I do all my texture altering in Paint Shop Pro ... not on the fly in gmax.

I read with interest your travails and struggle with scale. We've all gone through it. My suggestion is to compare your barn with other barns ... although it looks more like a farm outbuilding or large shed. Nevertheless it should be compared with other farm buildings.

Example: Maxis homes are really really small and you'll need to create a doorway about 3.8 meters if you want it to fit in with other stage 1 R$ Maxis homes and the Cycledogg homes in your picture. My typical barn door is no shorter than 5 meters high and larger doors are usually something like 6 meters high. I try to imagine a tractor and rider exiting or entering.

I guess i don't have too much to say. You've gotten some great help from Matt325 ...

I've learned over time to have an have an idea of scale before I start a project. I look at similar buildings and find the LOD size. (iLives reader or the XTool has that sort of information). That will get you close at the start of the project and you'll only have to do a small amount of scaling at the end.

You will probably have to create some distance between some of the buildings becaus of an inherint difference between building types. Commerical vs. Farm vs. housing. Don't place the huge Maxis red tractor next to a structure because one or the other will look odd. Break up distance between a home and a barn with a fence, a small garden, or cloths line, etc . . .

BTW - I should say that I do like your concept. The barn is a nice shape.

Good Luck

- Jim
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: vester on September 01, 2011, 04:04:00 PM
#1: In the material editor, when selecting a texture bitmap, I can open the respective dialog both with the button at "ambient" and "diffuse" --> what's the difference? And sometimes one of these little buttons has disappeared (mostly the "ambient" one) ...  ()what()

Did a little researcd on that:
Quote
The help files explain it very well.

Ambient color is the color of an object where it is in shadow. This color is what the object reflects when illuminated by ambient light rather than direct light. Ambient color areas in the scene will not appear any darker than the ambient light setting.
You can lock a material's ambient color to its diffuse color so that changing one automatically changes the other.

Self-illumination creates the illusion of incandescence by replacing shadows on the surface with the diffuse color. As you increase self-illumination, the self-illumination color takes over from the ambient color. At a setting of 100, the material shows no shaded areas, although it can show specular highlights.

Quote
Well the ambient color is locked to the diffuse by default for a reason - most people don't use it. If you're using software rendering, then a combination of the shadow color lighting parameter and GI will give you the desired effect. Ambient color is a poor man's replacement for those things, and a crappy one at that. Self-Illumination on the other hand is pretty handy in certain circumstances, like when you want something to...oh say, self-illuminate

Link (http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85508)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 16, 2012, 02:42:51 PM
Ok, finally I found some time again to proceed with my little BAT project. Have been busy feeding, carrying around and playing with my now 17-month-old daughter, but now the time has come to shift some time into this again.

First, I finally managed to find some props that would go nice with my barn, and that's how far I've come so far:

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9496/ingame91.jpg)

I decided to leave it without base texture, since personally I will use this Lot in rural areas, so I like to blend it in with ploppable flora like this:

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9092/ingame92.jpg)

Second, I'm not sure whether the settings are ok. So if someone could have a look at them and give some advice as how to adjust them so that the Lot fit's in. Especially Landmark effect (I tend to set it to zero), Flammability, Plop COst, and so on.

SC4Model values
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4932/settingssc4model.jpg)

Lot values
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9687/settingslot.jpg)

Third, I cannot find a tutorial to make the lot at least moderate slope conforming. I know it cannot be placed on steep slopes because then the Props would be floating in mid-air or gone underground, but there should be the ability to place it on very moderate slopes without getting a retaining wall. I know it has to do something with treshhold and maximum slope or so, but I cannot find a proper description out there. So if someone could link me up, I'd appreciate that.

Fourth - feel free to add any further comments & suggestions!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: vortext on January 16, 2012, 03:24:25 PM
Very nice little shed, though imo a bit too white. Maybe do a worn down version as well? In any case, keep up the good work  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 16, 2012, 04:04:21 PM
Very nice little shed, though imo a bit too white. Maybe do a worn down version as well? In any case, keep up the good work  :thumbsup:

Unfortunately I had the same thoughts ..  :P so still some way to go.
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: vortext on January 16, 2012, 04:26:46 PM
Very nice little shed, though imo a bit too white. Maybe do a worn down version as well? In any case, keep up the good work  :thumbsup:

Unfortunately I had the same thoughts ..  :P so still some way to go.

I guess so  :D Anyway, only now did I actually read the rest of your post  ::)

The settings seems to be ok. However SC4PIM also contains an option for a neutral building, located in the 'parks' menu. That way, it has no park or landmark effect whatsoever.

Secondly regarding the slope conforming issue. In the lot file, set the 'max slope allowed' to 200 and the 'max slope before lot foundation' to 201. Or other values, key point is the latter is larger than the former. Next open the building descriptor and set the 'building foundation' to 0x194b1000. If this property isn't present you must add it, otherwise the lot will conform to the slope but the building will still have a red brick foundation (as outlined by the LOD). Hope it helpes  :)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 18, 2012, 05:57:53 AM
Ok, I'm going to do a more worn down version of my little barn as a seperate Lot anyway, but one question out of curiosity: Could I replace the existing SC4Model that I used with this Lot in SC4PIM by an altered model? Or do I have to create a whole new Lot?

Thing is, if I e.g. only alter the roof and wall texture of the barn, I wouldn't want to put all the props in place again, but have only the "old" model replaced by the new one. So is this possible?
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: vortext on January 18, 2012, 12:29:01 PM
Could I replace the existing SC4Model that I used with this Lot in SC4PIM by an altered model? Or do I have to create a whole new Lot?

Well, if the worn down BAT has the same Group & Instance ID as the previous one, it should be replaced automagically  ;).

If instead you create 2 BATs with different IDs however, simply copy/paste the props from the old to the new lot in the SC4PIM (select all the 'prop' lines, right-click and hit 'copy properties'. Right-click in new lot and paste properties).
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: jmyers2043 on January 18, 2012, 07:59:50 PM
Let's see if I understand. You have a lot with the small white barn. You're going to do a second lot with the same model but with different skins.

The easy way. Open the lot editor, and then the lot. Click replace item. Select the 2nd small barn and place it on the lot. The click 'save as'. You'll be prompted for a name. Done. 

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s26/jmyers2043/rady1.jpg)


Intermediate skills: A second way to do it is to put both buildings in a prop family. See page 46 of the SC4PIM user guide (XTool). You will have one lot. Each building will have a 50% chance to grow on the same lot. Prop families are better because are are fewer files to load at start up.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s26/jmyers2043/rady2.jpg)


Good Luck

- Jim


Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 19, 2012, 04:13:57 PM
So, here's another nights work ... gave it a little more "used" look following vortext's advice. Now let me hear what you think &mmm. Personally I can see the finish line on the horizon  :)

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2136/ingame11.jpg)

As a part of finishing my first BAT, there's the need to create icons for it. So, 2 questions:

#1: Why are there 4 icons ...?

#2: of which size and format need the icons to be?

As for the way to replace the SC4model - I created a new Lot anyway, but thanks vortext and jmyers2043 for showing me three different ways for that .. will keep this knowledge for my upcoming projects!

Ahh .. and as an addition ... I think at this stage it's only fair to give credits to DocRorlach (WorkingMan Productions) for the props used on my Lot.
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: vortext on January 19, 2012, 04:25:42 PM
Looks fine to me  :thumbsup:

#1: Why are there 4 icons ...?

#2: of which size and format need the icons to be?

#1 Wondered the same, dunno (or care frankly :P)

#2 an individual icon needs to be 44x44 pixels, making a row of four measure 176 x 44 pixels. And the SFBT icon templates (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8772.msg272688#msg272688) might come in handy  ;)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: jmyers2043 on January 19, 2012, 08:12:24 PM
...Why are there 4 icons ...?

Ah, I see. This building will be a plop lot of some sort. Close your eyes and remember what happens when you want to select a park or a landmark. There are four states that the item icon can be. B/W if the requirements for the lot have not yet been achieved, seemingly larger, etc when you pass the mouse pointer over it. That is the reason for the four icons.

BTW - The Xtool makes creating item icons a snap.

Select the lot and right click. Select 'change icon'
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s26/jmyers2043/iconq1.jpg)



Select your image. The Xtool will also do some resizing .. but it is better to do it in a real paint program.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s26/jmyers2043/iconq2.jpg)



Good Luck

- Jim

Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 20, 2012, 04:17:11 AM
@ vortext: thanks for both the info and the icon template!

@ jmyers2043: thanks, already found that part of the Xtool. I will take care of the icons that over the weekend.

Having had some times to think, I realized that nightlighting still needs to be added to my BAT. So, the finishing line disappeared out of the sudden ..  :'(

But before adding that, i do have another question. I know that there's a kind of naming convention (this is also referred to in the "LEX candidacy" thread), like Comercial Lots are named "CO$_...." IOT see what type of Lot this is at a first glance. Now, is there somewhere a document that sums up these naming convention?   ()what()
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: CasperVg on January 20, 2012, 04:36:25 AM
@ vortext: thanks for both the info and the icon template!

@ jmyers2043: thanks, already found that part of the Xtool. I will take care of the icons that over the weekend.

Having had some times to think, I realized that nightlighting still needs to be added to my BAT. So, the finishing line disappeared out of the sudden ..  :'(

But before adding that, i do have another question. I know that there's a kind of naming convention (this is also referred to in the "LEX candidacy" thread), like Comercial Lots are named "CO$_...." IOT see what type of Lot this is at a first glance. Now, is there somewhere a document that sums up these naming convention?   ()what()

If you're using PIM-X to generate the lots/building descs, it will automatically follow the naming convention, I think
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: jmyers2043 on January 20, 2012, 08:41:29 AM
If you're using PIM-X to generate the lots/building descs, it will automatically follow the naming convention, I think

Casper is correct. I name my gmax models something link this   JFM_WhiteBarn_rev 01

I'll export and make it into a I-AG buildng using the XTool. The DESC file will be  JFM_WhiteBarn_rev01

I'll use the Xtool to create the lot and the name will automatically be IR$3_5X6_JFM_WhiteBarn_rev01 ... proper naming convention

I'll use the Xtool to modify the DESC file by adding an LTEXT. Assign a cool name such as "Braying Hill Farms". Presto, the gamer sees "Braying Hill Farms" as the query and hover query.

Hope this helps

- Jim

Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 20, 2012, 10:53:12 AM
Well, the SC4PIM does this indeed. The Lot has been named "PLOP_1x1_...." - I was expecting it to have a prefix that would be linked to the category I created it in (parks - neutral), like eg.  CO...  for Commercial Offices. BUt that isn't hte case with ploppable buildings obviously. SO, finished that part, now heading off to the night lights.


And that's the first result. I just added a "Omni" type of light, and added a window pane to the front window. Then I atached a blueish texture with 10% opacity to it, but as far as I can tell there is no difference to the version without the window.

#1) Daylight with window pane

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1300/rendereastday10percent.jpg)

#2) Night views

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8346/rendereastnight10percen.jpg)

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/6993/rendernorthnight.jpg)

Due to a lack of time I suppose I won't be able to finish the lot and make an ingame pic over the weekend [EDIT: damn - forgot a vital part in that message! :P], but let me just hear your opinion on that.
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: FrankU on January 23, 2012, 09:21:19 AM
Let's see if I understand. You have a lot with the small white barn. You're going to do a second lot with the same model but with different skins.

The easy way. Open the lot editor, and then the lot. Click replace item. Select the 2nd small barn and place it on the lot. The click 'save as'. You'll be prompted for a name. Done. 

Intermediate skills: A second way to do it is to put both buildings in a prop family. See page 46 of the SC4PIM user guide (XTool). You will have one lot. Each building will have a 50% chance to grow on the same lot. Prop families are better because are are fewer files to load at start up.

There is a third way that I use quite often at the moment. You don't need to make prop families first and it is in fact very simple. Difficulty: I'd say intermediate+ skills.
Smoncrie explained the method in this (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5350.0) thread.

Simply stated:
1. You make your lot
2. You open the lot in Reader
3. You open the lot exemplar and look for the lotconfig... entry (it's one of the entries with 13 rep counts) of which the 13th rep has the IID of your prop.
4. You open this property and add a 14th entry.
5. In this entry you type down the IID of the second prop.

Save and close. When the lot is plopped the game chooses between the 13th and 14th rep.
You can add quite a long list of reps, so you can even exchange the model by several different models. It works very good and you never have to worry about prop families. You can decide the variation on every lot independent of all other lots.

Nice barn by the way!  &apls
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: vortext on January 23, 2012, 02:27:32 PM
You can add quite a long list of reps, so you can even exchange the model by several different models. It works very good and you never have to worry about prop families. You can decide the variation on every lot independent of all other lots.

darn nifty, if only I had known that earlier  ::)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: jmyers2043 on January 23, 2012, 06:54:11 PM
... but let me just hear your opinion on that...

I like the barrel you did near the door. I usually start to put things around and about my bats when they near completion. Inside open doorways, etc.

You already have some things but a few more items in your library can't hurt. I hope you find these things useful if not now then maybe in the future. Includes gmax models and textures. You'll probably have to reapply the textures as you'll not be able to duplicate the file paths.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s26/jmyers2043/forrady.jpg)


DL link:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/4/1237795/forRady.zip (http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/4/1237795/forRady.zip)



Good Luck

- Jim
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 24, 2012, 03:44:02 AM
@ FrankU: thanks, so this way I also could replace an existing SC4Model with a new one, I suppose (like I stated - replace Version 1 of my Barn on the existing Lot by Version 2 without having to create the whole Lot again).

@ jmyers2043: Thank's a lot!! Great stuff indeed ... I'm already looking for a place to put the coffin ..  :P

I think I need to place some stuff inside the barn, since one can see fairly good inside it.
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 24, 2012, 05:40:58 PM
Ok, there are good and bad news.

Good news - as you can see, I seemed to have made some progress with my barn. I used some of jmyers stuff in and around my barn (cannot really see it inside, I think I would have to re-position it), and I changed the position of the pickup because otherwise it would overhang the lot a little.

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3945/ingame21.jpg)

Bad news - nightlighting is not working ingame:

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3923/ingame22.jpg)

although I do have a light applied in gmax, as you can see from my earlier images.

Which isn't that bad at all.

What really hurts is that I now receive an error message when I try to open my barn in gmax. And from what I remember, that means my barn is dead now with now chance to recover it ... that's why one should always make a backup of his gmax file after some time. Unfortunately I remembered that only after my file got corrupted  ???

But anyway - here it comes in handy that I still have the first version with the "clean" textures, so .. well, let's see it as some extra training course in modelling ...  :P

Apart from that - what do you think about my barn in general, and any advice regarding the nightlighting at hand?
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: FrankU on January 25, 2012, 04:22:56 AM
I like the barn a lot, but I don't really understand why you would BAT also the stuff and the truck around it. Isn't it much more flexible to add them as separate props? That's what I would do if I knew how to BAT.

Hope you recover your files!

Back up; I have a small script with a link to my desktop. I click it, the computer copies all "My Documents" onto a separate disk and then shuts off the computer. Always a backup of yesterday's work at hand.
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 25, 2012, 06:36:48 AM
I like the barn a lot

 ;D

I don't really understand why you would BAT also the stuff and the truck around it.

Well, the truck, the crates, the man and the tree are props actually. The rest is included in the BAT, mainly for the reason that this is my first BAT and I didn't know better  %wrd.

I still have to figure out where a prop can be placed and where not. Look for example at the little "garage" with the trailer: would I be able to place a prop under the roof? Will it be visible then, or will it be hidden? In my opinion, it must be hidden, because the free space under the roof only is a rendered image, not an actually free space.

But I could have (and will with my next BAT) added some stuff as a prop. However, I think there is no way of free rotating a prop (only 90 steps), so the pallets, planks, bricks would at least have to be BATed that way and then added as a Prop.

Well, as I said - I still have to figure out the best way how to do all this ...
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: jmyers2043 on January 25, 2012, 07:07:30 AM
Hey Rady

and I changed the position of the pickup because otherwise it would overhang the lot a little.

This is the phrase that had us scratchging our heads. I was also thinking what FrankU brought up. Your explaination tells me that you're doing just fine.   :thumbsup: 

Good Luck

- Jim
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 25, 2012, 07:20:02 AM
Hey Rady

and I changed the position of the pickup because otherwise it would overhang the lot a little.

This is the phrase that had us scratchging our heads.

I'm sorry.  &mmm

So, this tells me I have to be more precise, even if it's half past midnight  :P

Thing is, first I had the Pick Up (prop) positioned the other way round, as you can see from my first images of the finished lot. But that way, the Pick Up (prop) would be overhanging the edge of the lot. Which wouldn't be dramatically, but would result in some (minor) restirctions about what can be plopped / buildt next to this barn. E.g. imagin a growable rising there, and my Pick Up intruding into their living room's wall.

So I decided to park my Pick Up the other way round. You never know who's gonna move in beside you ...
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: FrankU on January 25, 2012, 07:29:50 AM
Ah yes, your explanation is clear now.
Funny isn't it? You always think you are giving clear infomation and every time someone stands up and says: hey, what are you doing? I don't understand.... or just begins to argue about somethig you never thought about. Especially when it is past midnight!
Communication is more difficult than people think. That's what I have leaned in my almost 50 years on this Earth.

Anyway: small props being part of a BAT is not a problem. And it is possible to make the garage in such a way that we can lot things under it. I don't know how you should do it, because I know zilch about BATting, but there are plenty of examples around.

Succes!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 26, 2012, 05:56:46 AM
Ok, I finally accepted that my Barn is lost. OTOH this opens the opportunity for a second BAT training, this time in 3dsmax.

Unfortunately there won't be to much time this week, since I have to prepare for


but I hope to be able to spend some time on my beloved barn next week.

So stay tuned for the next update!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Badsim on January 27, 2012, 04:03:30 PM
Ok, I finally accepted that my Barn is lost. OTOH this opens the opportunity for a second BAT training, this time in 3dsmax.


What a pity !  :'( I was following the development of that appealing little barn with a major interest   &apls I hope you will resurrect it ASAP indeed ! (Im really a sucker for that kind of BATs   $%Grinno$%)  :thumbsup:

Cdric.
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on January 27, 2012, 04:32:34 PM
Thank you cedric for your kind words of encouragement!

Well, only because there's a setback doesn't mean there's cessation ... that's how far I have come meanwhile:

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1610/max1k.jpg)

Good thing is: when I created the barn for the first time in gmax, it took me a week to proceed so far. Now, this has been one nights work.

So at least I can measure some improvement in my BATing knowledge ...

Glad to hear that there's someone out there who might actually download this BAT sometime in the future ..
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Gringamuyloca on January 27, 2012, 07:30:19 PM
Good thing is: when I created the barn for the first time in gmax, it took me a week to proceed so far. Now, this has been one nights work.

So at least I can measure some improvement in my BATing knowledge ...

It's amazing how age can allow such satisfaction!   $%Grinno$%  ::)

Quote from: Rady
Glad to hear that there's someone out there who might actually download this BAT sometime in the future ..
You can add one more to the list!   &apls
I'm sorry for the loss of the barn, but looking forward to the opportunity it creates!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on March 25, 2012, 01:12:39 PM
Hi folks, I'm here again. Two months went by surprisingly fast, but now that I mastered the first steps with 3dsmax, I can provide the first images of my "new" old barn. I'm sure I still have to work on the wall textures, since they look somewhat plain. But I'd be interested in your opinion of course!

(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/791/previewv1.jpg)

Most of the stuff that is assembled around the barn will be added in the LE, only those things under the garage roof will be added in 3dsmax. I haven't found a nice 3dsmax trailer model for free on the web right now, so adding that might take some more time if I'm forced to model the trailer by myself. Summer is coming, thus work in the garden comes up reducing my time for BATing ... on the other hand, this would be another nice modelling "tutorial" for me. So let's see.

Gringamuyloca, thanks, you have been added!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: RickD on March 26, 2012, 04:25:02 AM
I like the little barn. How about some ivy growing up the back wall?
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on March 26, 2012, 05:31:03 AM
I like the little barn. How about some ivy growing up the back wall?

Yep, thought about that also, but still have to find some nice texture ..  %confuso
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Girafe on March 26, 2012, 06:03:42 AM
Or checking my tuto:

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11656.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11656.0)
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on March 26, 2012, 07:29:23 AM
Or checking my tuto:

http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11656.0 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11656.0)

 :o

Glancing at the BATing olymp ....  thank's a lot, this definitely will be the next addition to my barn!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on April 07, 2012, 02:10:50 PM
Hi folks, here I am again .. unfortunately the titel of my thread is more true than I would like it to be ...  but also slow progress is a kind of progress!

So here we go with what I would call the final version of the barn's textures. The ivy on the back wall will be added in the next step, but I wanted to get some kind of "clearence" from you for my wall textures before proceeding with the ivy.

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5954/previewv2.jpg)

Well, it's your turn again! Looking forward for your ideas!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Silur on April 07, 2012, 02:20:21 PM
This is very attractive for me ...
May be some dirty grey color for walls ... or may be no ...
I think - this is very fine  !!!
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Aaron Graham on April 07, 2012, 07:13:08 PM
looks good to me. :D

Silur- those gray walls are dirty. :D
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: jmyers2043 on April 07, 2012, 09:08:56 PM
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5954/previewv2.jpg)

No ideas from me. A compliment instead ... I like the shadowing on the white walls.

Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on April 08, 2012, 12:21:08 PM
Thanks for your replies, I take this as a basic clearence to proceed  ()stsfd()
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Lowkee33 on April 08, 2012, 01:33:53 PM
I like the light that comes through the door being visible in the window (the upper-right rotation).  However, I think that it interferes with the window frame.  At first sight it looked like the window is broken (which would be a cool detail if you ask me).  Since it isn't, maybe you could throw a contrasting texture on the barn floor.  Another thing I've found is that 3dsMax previews are much better quality than you actually get in-game, you might want to do some test renders and see how that light will actually look.
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on April 09, 2012, 04:49:27 AM
Lowkee, thanks for sharing your ideas!

At first sight it looked like the window is broken (which would be a cool detail if you ask me).

That's a nice idea, maybe I will dwell on that, also ... however before that I need to learn the "glass texture" part of BATing ....

Quote
[...] you might want to do some test renders and see how that light will actually look.

By "test renders" you actually mean real ingame shots? Or just exporting the sc4model and saving the images with Ilive's reader?
Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Lowkee33 on April 09, 2012, 08:34:03 AM
Quote
however before that I need to learn the "glass texture" part of BATing ....

3dsMax comes with a bunch of materials.  In the various 3dsMax directories (Mydocs/ProgramFiles)  you will find a "materiallibraries" folder (I actually have 5 such folders installed by default).  One or more of them will have a bunch of stuff where you can find a glass material I am sure.

When you first make a new material, the default type is "Standard".  Once you've set the lights, you will find an "Arch-and-Design" option if you clicked on that Standard button.  Arch and Design has a bunch of templates with many types of glass.

As a side, I have a 3dsMax Tutorials folder in MyDocs.  In it is a Scene Assets folder, and in that is an Images folder.  Images is full of things you might find useful.  (And if the prefab materials aren't working properly, they are probably trying to reference those images but can't find them).

BAT actually comes with a few textures, but nothing outstanding.  There is a simple glass texture, which might be a good starting point to at least see what makes glass work (not much, you will find).

Quote
By "test renders" you actually mean real ingame shots? Or just exporting the sc4model and saving the images with Ilive's reader?

Both, I guess.  You wouldn't necessarily have to share those images with us, just for personal reference.  Maybe this is just on my computer, but I've often been discouraged when the 3dsMax preview doesn't look like what I actually get.

Title: Re: Slow BAT steady - Rady's first BAT attempts
Post by: Rady on April 09, 2012, 11:22:24 AM
Lowkee, thanks for a second thought on the glass issue ...

Trying to follow your advice to export the model, I happened to realise that I also seem to need gmax for exporting the model to an SC4-usable format. I happily uninstalled gmax a few month ago when I happened to get hold of a 3dsmax copy  :P So I'm gonna "undo" that now and reinstall gmax ... which doesn't make me happy at all since I'm running out of space on my PC right now ... will need to invest in a new one soon.

So next on my list is installing gmax again and try to master the export process ....

Edit: Now this has turned out to be easier than expected :-) so here we go with the first render extracted from the model file with Ilive's reader:

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9488/previewrenderv1.jpg)


Not so bad from my point of view ...


Edit #2: Lowkee, as for your comments on the light shining in the barn through the open door: what I don't understand is that there isn't more light inside? I Mean, there are two large windows, but obviously no light shines in through them. Shouldn't it? Why is there a shine of light through the door, but not the window? I'm not aware of anything special that I did with the windows ...