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SimCity 4 Devotion Custom Content Showcase => Independent Development Projects => Independent Mod Projects => Topic started by: vortext on June 01, 2011, 08:42:21 PM

Title: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on June 01, 2011, 08:42:21 PM
Hello and welcome. This thread chronicles my modding adventures concerning various new streets. 
Thusfar I have basically done a whole bunch of experiments, detailed below, but my aim is to create a coherent, so-called historic street mod.

Allright, enough with the chit-chat let's get on with it.

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4744/61913941.jpg)

Yay, the first override ever. Texture taken from the cp texture pack.

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9024/19598260.jpg)

Some hours in photoshop later and one gets this.

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5863/73548446.jpg)

And while at it, why not do the other CP texture as well? Also notice the wide curves, the colour difference is a pain to get rid off.

I also did the smallest 'road' textures found in the CP pack, which somehow I don't have a picture of anymore. Now I had three texture sets but this was only the beginning really. At the time I also learned about T21's and incidentally had stumbled across a remarke made by Barby, about the seemingly little know fact growables can be network enabled too. In my mind, this opened up a whole new world of possibilties, the majority of which turned out to be deadends later on. In haste I threw some things together.

(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9337/86522842.jpg)

Hm, not too pretty but that's what happens when one rushes into action. You do however see the three different CP textures, colour corrected so they would match each other. But the transition between the different street tops, caused by the difference in zoning, is one thing that can't be eliminated. Needless to say it is an eyesore. And so are the empty stretches of sidewalk, even if it would be tiled properly. This whole exercise did however made me realize seamless transitions between streets and lots were possible. For this to happen I again turned to the CP texture pack.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7066/23410377.jpg)


I added 'sidewalks' to the overlays and took a matching green basetexture as sidewalk. I applied the same textures to network enabled lots and finally ended up with something which for me was pleasing to the eye. But it didn't stop me messing around.

(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9979/17460653.jpg)

Which gave me the idea to turn the whole thing upside down. By which I mean, to ditch the small dirt road and instead make the sidewalk appear as street top surface. The actual street textures now function as sidewalks and a much greater variety in sidewalks can be achieved, since they are wealth dependent.

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3083/40573231.jpg)

Like this, agriculture is yellow, residential is green and unzoned is well, unzoned with some speckles on the side. Now it is possible to have seamless transitions and still some variety in appearance.

I was making good progress on this when one night, while lurking in the MD archives I had a brainwave. Wouldn't it be awesome if everything could be covered with mayor-mode ploppables and still be functional? If streets would blend perfectley into their surrounding and together with network enabled lots, everything would fit together and look as wild and as natural as simcity can get? With network enabled lots and T21's, it would be doable. But upon realisation of the tedious work involved, I dismissed the idea as quickly as it came. Only to find myself pondering on it the next few days until finally I thought, why not? At least give it a try. And so I did just that.

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/165/72957194.jpg)

Although I still like the idea and the way it came out, with the benefit of hindsight it was pretty crazy, if not sheer madness to do so. Let me explain why.
For starters, the streets added a ton of props, making it a heavy on resources which resulted in a horrible lag. I did think about this beforehand but still, the game became extremely unresponsive and all the sudden prone to crashes, both things I normally don't experience. To check if it wasn't anything else causing this, I removed the T21's and reversed the streets back to plain textures. It made a noticable difference.
Secondly, it only looks good in zoom 2 (or 5, depending how you count). And finally because of the way T21's work, repetition is inevitable unless one makes multiple T21's for every single network tile and every single Network_Place_ID. This would amount to a minimum of 32 T21's just going straight ahead.

Ah well, it was a fun week and it did leave me with all the T21's required for a proper street mod so I began to wonder, what would one see out on the streets during, say the late 17th / early 18th century? Carriages for sure, people walking around, some animals too perhaps. The streets would be flanked by fences, or maybe some low rock walls or just random weeds. I began gathering props and meanwhile polishing the textures a bit. This leaves me at the current state of affairs.


(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1073/65726996.jpg)
Rural: Dirt top sidewalk, yellow overlays, various T21's


(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4206/68858010.jpg)
After a suggestion from a friend I'm now adding carriage tracks to the overlays.


(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6035/94419362.jpg)
Did I mention,  it's an override for SAM 3, PEG Dirt roads. Wide curves look a bit odd.

(http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/708/30401059.jpg)
Residential: Dirt top sidewalk, green overlays, various T21's.


(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/366/91013149.jpg)
Something made last week, white top sidewalk with two kinds of purple overlay for SAM 7.


So that's it. Basically I've got like 10 different texture sets and all the t21's I could ever wish for at my disposal and still somewhat clueless what to do with it all.  ::)
Well not really but I do appreciate constructive critism and suggestions, so if you have something on your mind, please leave me a comment. Bye for now. 
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on June 02, 2011, 06:43:39 AM
Wow, that's incredible!  &apls &apls &apls  Really promising stuff. You have so many interesting ideas and your progress so far is really beautiful. Good luck continuing  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: JoeST on June 02, 2011, 07:55:45 AM
That is by far the most wowtastic modwork I've see for ages, fantastic!

Uhh for the puzzle piece texture mismatch, there's a specified colour shift somewhere which blends them to fix the weirdness.

Thank you for sharing, and good luck in continuing :D

Joe
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on June 02, 2011, 08:04:25 AM
Wonderful, incredible!!

I like the modding work you are doing.  &apls &apls &apls

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: supremec on June 02, 2011, 11:10:27 AM
Awesome work, It's a good mod  &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on June 02, 2011, 03:09:06 PM
@noahclem, hope I can fullfill the promise as I'm sort of wandering from the one thing to the next  :D Also nice tut on the bridges, another annoying detail taken care of :thumbsup:

@JoeST, thanks. Do you happen to know where I could find that colour shift thingy? Right now I've got my own colour correction procedure but it's still a bit off. Would be of great help.

@Kergelen & supremec, thanks you both, glad you like it  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: JoeST on June 02, 2011, 04:11:44 PM
I have had no luck searching, you should ask one of the NAMites since they have to do it all the time (relatively). Tarkus/Alex will definitely know, since he's the one that I remember saying there's a 'standard' way of doing it.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: kelis on June 02, 2011, 06:26:06 PM
That's incredible  :o !! You are doing a stunning job, Congrats  &apls &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: TomHood on June 04, 2011, 07:51:01 AM
Hey Vortext, very good looking mod. nice to see how it evolved over time.
I had already seen all the pics, but only now, seeing it all in one place, did I realize what a monumentous task you've set yourself in creating your historical street mod.
good work E
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on June 04, 2011, 11:23:09 AM
@JoeST, will do, thanks.

@kelis, thank you

@TomHood, pretty nice huh? Doesn't look like half years work at all  $%Grinno$% (disclaimer, TomHood has seen most, if not all of the stuff already in private email conversation. He's also the one to suggest adding tracks)

Small update

As said earlier, I'm adding tracks to the overlays for which I took ALN gravelpaths as basic material to start from. As a side-effect I now also have these as an override, minus the wide curves

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7678/35625554.jpg)

I kinda like this minimal look for unzoned streets and will see how to incorperate it into the existing textures coming weeks (i.e. how to make the transition to zones as smooth as possible and adjust colours).
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: JoeST on June 04, 2011, 11:49:56 AM
Wow, that looks amazing, though the big intersection, (diagonal T + ortho) texture doesnt make much sense....Very nice though :)

Joe
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on June 04, 2011, 12:25:18 PM
@ Joe, glad you say so, wasn't too sure about it either. Since there's not too much space, it was the hardest tile to make, i.e. to get all the different directions to line up properly and still make it look smooth. It will, together with a few other tiles, get a do-over. And after a colour correction I'm hoping it will look like less of a mess  ;)

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: JoeST on June 04, 2011, 01:03:03 PM
well maybe with such a busy intersection trying to plot the different possible paths is not the way forward, just make a dirt patch or something.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Ciuu96 on June 05, 2011, 10:13:35 AM
Wow, really nice stuff here! Very creative and useful, keep the good work up! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: marsh on June 11, 2011, 07:19:17 PM
Very nice work. If I were you I would try and find a way to make them new streets, as to work along-side and not overwrite the current SAM streets. I don't know how to do this... I'm sure it's possible but I'm just throwing ideas out there. :P

,marsh
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: threestooges on June 12, 2011, 01:50:34 PM
Excellent work on these. They should add some excellent rural variety to the SAM when they're done.
-Matt
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: kwakelaar on June 12, 2011, 02:17:21 PM
This is looking great, and your results are just what I need for my MD.  ;) I see you started out with one of cp's textures, which just happens to be the same I have been using to make my streets. And on a side note yours look a lot better than mine do.
I do like the fencing idea, but as now it is looking a little like a racetrack for horses rather than something you would see in the 17th and 18th century. I would think the fencing  would need to be outside the "pavement".
I have been thinking I should take some time sooner or later to start fixing my own mod's, but seeing your work here I don't think it is necessary any more. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on June 12, 2011, 06:00:47 PM
@ Joe, maybe, but I do like to preserve discarnable tracks. I've done some experimenting with colour & transparency and it sure helps blending the tracks into the dirt top.

@ Ciuu96, thanks, will do  :)

@ marsh, when learning about all this I've looked into that but it entails some technicallities which are beyond me (creating a new SAM texture range and proper pathing for instance). However if there's enough interest from the community it may be worth while ensuing but for now I focus on texturing.

@Matt, thanks, glad you like it.

@kwakelaar, thanks for your kind words. I've been following your MD with interest, would love to get my hands on some of your carriages  ;) (and the same goes for your other bats as well  :D) About the fencing, I myself think it looks a bit too crisp (or clean, or modern, or however you want to call it). But there just aren't that much fences available, i.e. this was the only set which had all the necessary components. As for the placement, it follows from the dimensions of the fences themselves. If they're placed more outward, some tiles won't line up anymore.   

Small update

I've remade some of the ALN tracks and attempted to blend them into the existing textures, though with none satisfactory results yet. Also, I realised that in order to see the full spectrum of textures available (low/med/high wealth & density for all rci types) I'll need a fully devolped city, which I don't have because since rediscovering simcity I've been busy with all sorts of modding. So it seems the time has come to actually start playing the game but not before doing some lotting  $%Grinno$% Here's a little something.

(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6650/43270349.jpg)
Dirty industrial disguised as a farm, part of the so-called 'dirty meadows' project. Stay tuned for more.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on June 12, 2011, 07:02:35 PM
There is a lot of neat stuff happening here.  I really like the textures, as well as the dirty meadows project.  The lotting is very simple, but still does a great job.

There is space for more SAM textures in NAM's RUL.  You don't really have to make paths, because they are all the same.  From what I know, the job can be done by copy/pasting some lines and changing the texture instance references.  It's NAM territory though, you don't really want to release your own RUL.  The tutorial is here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2500.0).

I did a little work with the ALN set myself, though not nearly as good.  I used the "dirt track" textures from Deadwoods, and they can now be found in BSC Vol01.  Actually, the ALN paths are overlays that used these textures.  If you extract a texture and open it in MSPaint (or remove the alpha channel) you will see the dirt track textures.  As they are pretty rural, these are what I went with.

I didn't go very far.  I figure these roads would have very few people on them, so mostly I use them to act as a long driveway to the farms.

If you don't mind, here are some things I did.  Transitioning to the lots was important to me.  Roads don't go to nowhere, so the straight piece end piece is not an end.  The diagonal end also turns a little:

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/262/37284005.jpg)

To transition to lots, I used an offset prop.

(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6797/45456952.jpg)

An in-game image.  Clearly a little edgy, but making everything prefect does get in the way of playing the game.

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2087/84735722.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Tarkus on June 12, 2011, 08:37:30 PM
vortext, this is some very nice looking work here! :thumbsup:

To answer the whole NAM/SAM side of things, shortly after the release of SAM Version 3, 3 years ago, jplumbley had asked me to create some starters for additional future expansion for a Version 4.  Version 4 still hasn't come about, but I already have an additional 8 starters prepared (SAM Sets 6, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16), plus I've copied paths and RUL Override code over for them. 

It's all sitting in the current developmental build of the NAM Controller right now--disabled for the moment, though re-enabling them is a 5-second job.  They're basically just waiting for new sets.  I've also partially completed coding on them to enable connections with the NWM, GLR and other components that weren't yet supported.

-Alex
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: greckman on June 12, 2011, 09:36:30 PM
Being a builder of rural areas and farms, I really like this project. The fences along the street is a great touch and will come in very handy. I also am glad this will be a functional network and not just eyecandy. And that news from Alex is awesome.
Keep up the good work, Vortext.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on June 13, 2011, 08:52:59 AM
Nice progress vortext.  &apls   This is definitely continuing to be an exciting project. You've certainly created a nice scene testing the situation. Btw, love the "dirty meadows"  :D

Also, glad you liked the bridge tutorial. I'm very happy if it's useful.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Evillions8 on June 20, 2011, 12:39:19 AM
Will there be a blank base texture for any of these SAMs?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on June 22, 2011, 02:14:36 PM
@Lowkee33, smart move to make the end piece a straight. I use network enabled lots to get the strees to end somewhere. (just in case you were wondering, yes, growables can be network enabled too, which has its pros and cons). I've also been thinking about using offset props to create driveways but then again, learning how to bat would be something else all together and I'm afraid I wouldn't get around to actually playing. Which I rarely do anyway since I'm bit of a perfectionist, your advice has been taken into account ;)

@Tarkus, I've sent you a PM some time ago but haven't heard back yet. In short I was wondering if you know the standard procedure to colour correct the wide curves, which JoeST said you would. Also I would like very much to get my hands on an 'empty' SAM range. And in general I've been thinking for some time now about what sam V4 should include (wide curves, all possible diagonal intersections etc.). Really want to discuss this with you or another NAM team member.

@greckman, thanks glad you like it. And it would be awesome indeed if my modest attempt at modding would turn into a proper sam someday  :).

@noahclem thanks, be sure to keep an eye out.

@Evillions8, not sure if I understand what you mean by a blank base texture. If you're referring to the sidewalks I've used, these can be found in the CP & bsc vol 2 texture packs. Except for the dirt top, that one is from a texture pack found on the internet, free to use, which I have modified. Alas I've had no luck finding it again, so you have to wait for a release, if ever  ::)   

update

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6777/58696723.jpg)
As you can see, all wide curves are completed. Accidentally I've colour corrected some twice, which is why some look so dark. But it's okay since I'm not happy with them just yet, especially the unzoned ones can be improved upon.

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8906/41176192.jpg)
It's a maze!  :D Added dirt tracks into the existing textures, which was somewhat tedious to do. And I can already tell you it must be done again. Because although I had lined up the diagonals and straights, it hadn't cross my mind this would not guarantee the tracks to run parallel with the underlying dirt top. In other words, the tracks do sometime cut corners. Needless to say, this must be corrected.

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1602/55390910.jpg)
Head-on collision! This occurs too frequent, must have another look at the T21 patterns. 

Still on the wishlist is to add the purple-blue overlays shown in the first post, for medium & high wealth. As for the fences, after Kwakelaars remark about looking like a race track, I came to wonder if two carriages in opposite direction could pass each other. It turns out they can, if only just barely. Now a little voice in the back of my head won't stop nagging, it's too narrow, it's too narrow. .  $%Grinno$% 

On a side note, I'm still searching for a region to put all this to the test. What I want is a large region (60x60 km or so) with some riverbeds (either ingame water or for ploppable), a decent mountain range and still enough flatland to develop. Suggestions anyone? 

And leaving on a personal note, after prolonged unemployment I've landed a new job two weeks ago now, which is great but it sure takes a huge chunk out of the day :D Things are coming along nowhere near as fast as I would like them to. But rest assured I'll keep on going. That's all for now, please leave me a comment and 'till next time, cheers.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on June 24, 2011, 11:39:36 AM
Looking good.  The curved fences look a little strange, but I guess that's how it goes. :)  You might have issues with the IR zones getting fences, how does traffic get in?

Too many downsides for TE (for my own lots I would say).  I had a TE windmill, but then didn't like traffic going into the 1x1 driveway.  The last straw was a slope issue.  It seems that the TE connection has to be flat land, and so it does strange things.

As for the props, my thought process was the same as yours.  However, no need to Bat.  There are models in NAM that are flat planes, and the texture applied is the same shape/size as a transit texture (a top down perspective).  Cogeo gave me some help, and eventually I got it good enough for me.  Thread Link (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=9889.20).  I feel like there is enough info in that thread to get it right, but feel free to ask.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: thingfishs on July 09, 2011, 07:35:37 PM
Brilliant work vortext &apls
As a regular SC4 player I love them, but they are also perfect for the SimMedieval project (marsh actually pointed me here). I have no complaints, in fact they're better than I would've hoped for - my only wishful request (and I know it's fair task), is to make 22.5 etc ones (dirt FAR basically). These would make creating realistic medieval towns & cities a LOT easier. Just a thought but regardless, I think these look fantastic.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 10, 2011, 07:35:06 AM
@ Lowkee33, as for the traffic getting in, that's where the network enabling comes into play. Just made a prop family with all sorts of fences to go on IR lots. And yes, the connection must be made on near flat ground. Though once it's there, it can handle slopes pretty well. Also thanks for the link, I must try it yet but it looks very usefull, not only for the street mod. 

@thingfishs, thank you. I didn't know about the SimMedieval project and it looks very promising. Hopefully things will pick up again since I'm kinda short on historic / rural buildings myself. As for the FAR side of the streets, there is only one such piece available that I know of (in the rural roads plugin) and I can't get it to work . .  I would applaud anyone who makes FAR pieces for streets and be more than happy to do some texturing for it, but until then we can only wish for it.

Small Update

This will be slightly off topic but I consider this my personal thread so it's okay I guess  :D
Last couple of weeks my attention has been geared towards other things than the street mod. For one I've searched for and found a region. It's the Barcelona area made by dobbdriver / drunkapple and measures 60-something x 60-something km (can't remember exactly and too lazy to look it up  :)). Here it is.

(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9475/27325472.jpg)

Needless to say, it took a while to get all the trees in but I'm pleased with the result. It's actually my first proper region since re-discovering simcity. Now this beauty needs to be developed in style, so I've begun making new farm fields. After all, it would be somewhat of an eyesore to see the streets, which are in HD, run through dull maxis fields. Here's a little sneak-peek.

(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/4558/74776937.jpg)

Yup, high-definition, multi-fish texture farm fields ()stsfd() Stay tuned for more.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: marsh on July 12, 2011, 08:06:40 PM
Beautiful region. Out of curiosity what tree controller is that?

Those farm fields look great too. I have yet to find a farm field set that I feel blends in well with the maxis ones. (SG ones did but the seasonal part ruins it making random fields everywhere) Maybe these will be the ones I finally use. Who knows. :P

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 14, 2011, 01:22:00 PM
@marsh, I've used two actually. The coastal area, extending some 4/5 tiles inland, is done with Meadowshire river. The rest with Italia coast, both by cp of course.
Thanks for the heads up on the blending issue, haven't looked at it yet since I use a maxis blocker.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on July 17, 2011, 10:29:24 AM
Hi VortextI think this is the first one  :P

I have to say, what do you mean by HD textures?  SimCity can only display 128 pixels on a tile.

Can you show a zoomed out/gridded picture of your fields?  They are very interesting, but I can't tell what I am looking at (base texture/overlay/terrain).

It looks like your blades of grass are 4 meters long, something I constantly battle with while making terrain textures.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 17, 2011, 12:36:55 PM
@Lowkee33, true as it may be simcity can only display 128 pixels a tile, as far as I know a texture which measures 256x256 instead of 128x128 makes quite a noticable difference.

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3241/80574022.jpg)

This is what I mean when I say HD.

As for the scale, keep in mind the ALN fences are rather large heightwise and the same goes for the carriages.  I'm trying to match the field textures to those.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on July 17, 2011, 02:43:28 PM
Going to bring alternate results here.  ()flamdev()  :)

I think the issue is when you went from a 256 texture to a 128 texture.  Depending upon compressions your pixels may blur into each other.  SC4 does not do this, it only ignores pixels that it can't display.  I made a 256 and 128 checkerboard textures, and the result is: This (http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4426/textureu.png).  The 256 is on the left, but both textures count 128 pixels in-game.  I would expect that if the 256 texture was displaying more pixels, it would look almost plain gray.

As for the fences, they are 2 meters tall, so that is a little big I would say.  The carriages I believe Picture (http://www.history.org/Foundation/journal/Summer08/images/Carriage_02.jpg).  I would say that is the smaller of carriages posted in your crash picture. 

Sorry if I seem like a jerk posting pictures, I don't mean to be.  The topic is interesting, so I at least report on the reasons why I think what I think. 

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 17, 2011, 04:33:15 PM
@Lowkee33, you're not being a jerk in anyway, in fact I think it is rather interesting. Though I'm no graphics expert I'm well aware of the differences in compression, this one was chosen for dramatic purposes  ;) However, even with the best compression rate for the 128 texture, the 256 texture on the left still looks a bit more crisp to me.   

(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4230/46583203.jpg)

Of course one could apply additional filters to the 128 texture beforehand but it doesn't make it any better. I've run rather extensive tests to see what looks best in game and thus far 256 pixel textures take the cake. Though technically the game may display 128 pixels for both textures, not displaying half the number of pixels from a 256 texture apparently yields a better result than to display all the pixels from a 128 texture. Which somehow seems to make sense, at least to me ::)

With respect to the carriages, the LOD boxes are 7 meters high. Of course the actual prop is slightly smaller but still nowhere as small as the one you linked to. Another way to demonstrate the overscaled nature of things is to take the fence as a ruler. Given it is 2.3 meter high, I would judge the back wheels to measure 2 meters at least.

(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8931/86420166.jpg)

But you're right the grass in the sneak peek pic is too large, it was only a proof of concept concerning the multi-fish textures. Here's another sample to show what I'm aiming for.   

(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7119/71158559.jpg)

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on July 17, 2011, 08:37:34 PM
First, thanks for the heads up about MultiFsh.  It allows for multiple layers to be on the same FSH, meaning that textures can be random.  Before, this was a long process.

No expert either, but I feel like the bicubic is for expanding images.  The best thing I could get is to use no compression at all.  I bet if you were to remove every other pixel, you might get the same thing from a 128 as a 256.

The 256 textures do look better.  I know there are a few high-detail ones in the BSC packs, perhaps compare to those.

The only issue I can see is file size.  You turn something near 25kb to 100kb.

I use Texture Maker (http://www.texturemaker.com/tour.php).  A great program, I learn a little bit more about every time I open it up.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 18, 2011, 08:48:42 AM
For starters a quick word on the compression issue, I work with photoshop and it doesn't allow a picture to be resized pixelwise without compression. So I prefer 256 textures given they look better and are easier to work on when it comes to details.

Now taking turn in seeming to come across as a jerk: are you sure simcity can only display 128 pixels a tile, e.g. is this hard coded in the .exe or something? I ask because in your checkerboard picture the 256 texure has a different interference pattern compared to the 128 texture, though this may be due to viewing angle / lot orientation in-game.

As for the file size, to my knowledge textures are among the least resource intensive stuff in simcity and even with 256 textures, the .dat files are still small compared to proppacks or modelfiles. I see little issue with this unless one is playing simcity on a 10-year old pc.

On a side note, I don't make my own textures but work with what I can find online, there are some pretty decent texture packs which fit my needs and are free to use, modify and redistribute. But you seem to have a skill providing me with interesting links, I've downloaded the texture maker and it looks like a lot of fun  :)

Multi-fish textures are a effective means for more variation / randomization yes. They work for both base and overlay textures, not for transit textures unfortunately. Don't have a clue about terrain textures, so maybe you could give it a try. The only tricky part when it comes to farm fields is to make multiple textures which can be tiled interchangeably, otherwise it looks like patchwork. I do this by starting with a 512 texture, tile it twice so the edges as well as the centre match up (hard for me to explain this, hope you understand what I mean). Next cut it up into four 256 textures and rotate /flip each one a few times, ending up with 16 variations in a multi-fish texture.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Deionn on July 18, 2011, 06:52:05 PM
Very, VERY nice textures, and I love how you've used c.p.'s textures to create a street mod, I have to say, I'm going to use the method of the farm fields to create a different variety in my creations.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on July 18, 2011, 08:49:30 PM
are you sure simcity can only display 128 pixels a tile, e.g. is this hard coded in the .exe or something? I ask because in your checkerboard picture the 256 texure has a different interference pattern compared to the 128 texture, though this may be due to viewing angle / lot orientation in-game.

Pretty sure.  I can at least say the difference between the two textures is viewing angle.  Terrain textures can be spread out.  The default textures are 256x256, and they take up a 2x2 tile square in zoom 4.  I am making 1024x1024 textures, but  this just means that I have to spread them out more.  For my terrain, a texture is 8x8 tiles large in the closest zoom.  It's not any more HD.  What the larger texture means is that I can have a lot more variance within the texture, because it doesn't tile as much.

Quote
As for the file size, to my knowledge textures are among the least resource intensive stuff in simcity and even with 256 textures, the .dat files are still small compared to proppacks or modelfiles.

Yeah, I think I was off, 5kb, not 25kb.  It gets pretty deep into my own opinions about things.  I have about 100mb of base/overlay textures, and probably 20mb that I will ever use.  I will have to make my own as the terrain mod gets closer to completion.   


Quote
Don't have a clue about terrain textures, so maybe you could give it a try.

I never thought of that, hmm.  I will give it a shot.  Jeeze, if that works I might rethink some things.

Texture maker is incredible.  I am pretty sure you can do what you are saying with the Translate functions.  Functions can also be scripted, meaning you can set it to flip something vertically, horizontally, and the both with one click.  Haven't figured out how to split textures in a script, but you can go from your 512 to 4 256es in a click in the menu.  The scripts also handle batch processing.  If you just made 16 textures and they are all a little too bright, you can write a "make darker" script and process them all at once.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: dedgren on July 18, 2011, 10:45:34 PM
Quote
Clearly a little edgy, but making everything prefect does get in the way of playing the game.

I think SC4 was where the phrase "The perfect is the enemy of the good" originated.  Actually, "the perfect" is simply the enemy of ever getting anything done at all.

Vortext, nice work!  A K-point for that, and one for you, too, Carl (Lowkee33) for continuing to think outside the SC4 box.


David
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gringamuyloca on July 18, 2011, 11:22:35 PM
 &bis& dedgren!

@ Vortex & Lowkee33 ... it seems you two have attracted the (IMOP the well deserved) attention of a master!  &apls

@ Dedgren - So nice to know there is a bit of time in your life to check in here David! May there be hope in RL.  ()flower()

Sorry for the hijack.. my excitement could not contain itself!  $%Grinno$%

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Tarkus on July 19, 2011, 12:26:21 AM
@Tarkus, I've sent you a PM some time ago but haven't heard back yet. In short I was wondering if you know the standard procedure to colour correct the wide curves, which JoeST said you would. Also I would like very much to get my hands on an 'empty' SAM range. And in general I've been thinking for some time now about what sam V4 should include (wide curves, all possible diagonal intersections etc.). Really want to discuss this with you or another NAM team member.

My apologies for the lack of response on my end :-[, and I'll give it a long overdue go now.

As far as color-correction, unfortunately, there isn't really a standard procedure.  Every NAMite who works with textures has different methods and settings they use to accomplish it, and there's periodically debates about the efficacy of them.  My current process I'm using on the textures for RealHighway Version 5.0 in Photoshop CS5 is to create a Hue/Saturation Adjustment Layer, setting "Lightness" to -15.  I picked that technique up from Shadow Assassin, and it tends to work fairly well.  Before, I had a solid colored square I was using as an overlay, which I used on the TuLEPs and some NWM textures--this method proves less effective when dealing with lighter or darker textures than the Maxis norms. 

It is also worth noting that the game actually applies textures to puzzle pieces and model-based transit items in their true colors.  The draggable items are actually darkened slightly by the graphics engine.  It is an oft-repeated misconception that they actually get "lightened" on models.

As far as getting a SAM range, we've still got a few sitting around. :)  All that needs to be done to enable them is to remove a semicolon that sits in front of the AddTypes line for the starter piece in RUL 0x10000000 in the NAM Controller file.  I don't think Set 10 has anything planned for it right now--if you change the sixth digit on the IIDs for all the textures in the 0x5E5##### range to "A", they'll work with that starter.  I have pieces of a set jplumbley had been working on with squidi when there was an effort toward a SAM V4 back in 2009 that I'd like to get in place for Set 6.  I'll have to get back to you on the wide-radius curves, however, as they're sitting in the Rural Roads Plugin (which will most likely get ripped apart if/when there's a new SAM) and I don't have that side of things memorized.

We're currently in the latter stages of getting a NAM release cycle together (the NAM itself, plus a new RHW and a new NWM), so we'll probably need to have that sorted out before we start any efforts in earnest toward SAM V4.  I did a bit of work last year on adding some additional intersection support--you can see those results beginning on Page 71 of the SAM Development thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1617.msg343468#msg343468), to get some idea as to where we're headed.  Fractional Angles might also be up for consideration.

-Alex
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on July 19, 2011, 11:31:33 AM
Good to see you David.  :)

Actually, "the perfect" is simply the enemy of ever getting anything done at all.

So true.  Pretty darn close at this point, though: Image (http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9995/checkerboard.png).  This is a 256 texture surrounded by 128s.  The actual line between the way SC4 displays base textures is more visible than the difference between the two, so I will call it quits.

This was done with Texture Maker.  I made the oh-so-vibrant 256 texture.  I wrote a script that uses an alpha map to basically copy/paste every other column into a new texture (making a 256x256 texture who's left side is color and right side is white).  Then did the same thing for the rows.  I cropped the resulting 128x128 of color, detailized it, and that is the result.

I could post the script if you are interested.  It has some sort of glitch when going from columns to rows, so I actually have two scripts.  Cropping is done by hand.

The size is 10kb compared to 40kb.  I think it is worth it, but that is up to you.

Edit: It's not quite perfect  :D.  Perhaps I cut the wrong pixels out.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 19, 2011, 01:32:56 PM
@Lowkee33, glad you noticed too, otherwise I would've felt such a nitpicker. The script would be quite usefull, if only to have a template to work from.

@Tarkus, it's okay seeing you're busy with secret weaponry and such. I used to use a hue/satutuaration layer too, but following a tutorial by Gascooker on colour correction for gmax I now use an adjustment layer for curves which pretty much nails it.

As for the SAM 10, I changed the textures IIDs and managed to enable the starter piece. However it still shows the maxis streets when I drag from it. I looked around in het RUL files and SAM core file to see what the problem could be but this stuff is beyond me for now. Could you please help me out some more.

Concerning SAM V4, I think NWM-SAM transitions would be of great value, as well as intersections for other networks. When looking in the RULs I already saw diagonal 2/3/4 way intersections, are these ready to go except for the textures? Needless to say fractional angles would be awesome.

@Deionn, thanks, glad you like it.


Actually, "the perfect" is simply the enemy of ever getting anything done at all.
:D It's funny because it's true.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on July 19, 2011, 02:44:43 PM
You can find the scripts attached.  I am not a programmer, so my methods are pretty brute.  There are some bugs, and I have included a readme for what needs to be done.  I must be counting wrong somewhere.

If you want to see if I am a pixel off, you could offset the whole texture 1 pixel up /down and right/left before hand.  I have a feeling this is what has happened.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 28, 2011, 02:42:29 PM
Finally had a chance today to sit down and give Texture Maker a go. However it seems like I've installed it already in the past and have forgotten about it . . ?  ???

In anyway, it says the 30 day trial has expired and I need to purchase a license. I've looked around online but it seems the Texture Maker project is dead for quite some time now. Maybe cleaning the registry thoroughly will help but I just did computer maintenance and it was a bit of a hassle to get everything going again, so that option will have to wait untill next time around.

On the brighter side of things, the street mod is near complete, expect to have it finished next week or so. 
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on August 09, 2011, 05:25:27 PM
Finally had time for a proper update. A little later then anticipated but with good reason. Because when I'd finished what I set out to do, I felt it still looked a little sparse. Carriages only go so far when it comes to variety. Luckily I had come across some props which wouldn't look too out of place.

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1935/79810643.jpg)
Lamp posts!  :) Gas powered, or maybe early electric lantarns. However, what you see is just a mockup street for the t21s.


(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4913/29192971.jpg)
This is the sad reality. :(

Besides the trouble it took to actually get the nightlighting to work (never knew an official copy of the game was needed. Serves me right for pirating  ;D) it turns out props placed on a T21 don't show nightlighting. Or at least I infer so after trying all possible combinations RKT1/4 and nighttime state change properties in the prop exampler. If anyone does know how to get the nightlighting to work at a T21, please let me know, any help is greatly appreciated.

On with the good news, all the textures have been taking care off, including a near perfect colour correction for the wide curves.
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9430/86194172.jpg)

After much consideration, I've also widened the fencing. Things lined up pretty good, in fact only the small 90 degree wide curve didn't work out.


(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6684/23191584.jpg)
And here's a random shot from one of many testcities, all different textures are shown. It may look a bit random but I do like the overall result (especially once you think away all the vanilla stuff ;))

Now on to a different subject, multi-fsh farmfield textures.  Nothing to say about it really, there are ten of them and almost all can be improved upon either in texture detail, colour or tiling. And a hat tip to Lowkee33, for I've been able to make myself some texture bases entrance props. Argueably it looks a bit silly but that's what a test city is for :) Here's an overview.

(http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/6928/76955816.jpg)
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/8855/63912234.jpg)
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/6020/76399042.jpg)
(http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/756/41227648.jpg)
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1677/34242785.jpg)
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7523/36354301.jpg)
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6663/69509549.jpg)
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/303/21599641.jpg)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9409/86513443.jpg)
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/4161/25213468.jpg)

That pretty much sums things up for now. I really hope the issue with the lamp posts can be resolved one way or another. But next few weeks I will be busy lotting so I can finally get on with my first proper region and show some pictures of how it pans out with custom content. Who knows, it may turn into a MD someday. Of course I will continue to work on the street mod & farm fields, seeing there's always room for improvement and I still have some ideas up my sleeve, i.e. add some flora & signposting props. So basically the street mod isn't finished at all but then again it would be quite foolish to think anything simcity related ever is.  ;) Stay tuned for more.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on August 11, 2011, 09:44:23 AM
This is actually very nice.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on August 20, 2011, 03:53:00 PM
@RickD, thanks, I think so too  ;)

Minor Update

Just made myself some paving because I couldn't find anything to serve my lotting needs.

(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/394/75200907.jpg)

Maybe I should rename the thread 'texture geekery'  :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: j-dub on August 20, 2011, 11:59:00 PM
Vortext, I can not believe you revealed that info, I don't know what your experience was, but are you saying the existing T21 light cone models that came with the NAM still do not even appear, if you group them together with your own light models? I know its not the same, but I think the T21 light cones were made so anyone could make their own light model, and plug the existing light cone to their own.

Also, I am curious, if the lights would work for someone else that got the light patch to work.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: jdenm8 on August 21, 2011, 01:04:10 AM
My understanding is that Night-Lights don't work when used in T21s (It's a limitation) and the lightcones used with streetlights (the light and pole assembly and the actual light cone are two separate entities) are specially coded to force them to appear at night and disappear during the day.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: MandelSoft on August 21, 2011, 04:16:37 AM
^^ The Light Cones use one property of the RKT4 (a prop consisting out of multiple objects) that you can turn objects on or off when they are in a special state. This could be during the night (streetlights), after a specific time (seasonal props) or by another mechanism I can't recall.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on August 21, 2011, 08:00:30 AM
@j-dub, jdenm8 & mrtnrln, thanks for the replies, I was hoping for someone to come to help and suddenly there're three of you.  :)

However I should clarify the problem a bit because the discussion focuses on the wrong part. The lightcones are not the issue. The problem is with the nightlighting on the lamppost prop (i.e. the actual SC4model aka BAT). 

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9200/60207502.jpg)

Also, I am curious, if the lights would work for someone else that got the light patch to work.
Maybe I'm repeating myself but this isn't the problem. The lampposts do show nightlighting when used on a lot, only when placed on a T21 does it not work.


My understanding is that Night-Lights don't work when used in T21s (It's a limitation)
Well, that would be quite a serious limitation but it does seem to be that way.  &mmm 
Maybe someone else has confirmation on this?

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: MandelSoft on August 21, 2011, 11:45:02 AM
I can confirm that sithlrd98 attemped this too and he had the same problem. I solved this with small light cones (small bulbs of light).
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on August 21, 2011, 01:04:53 PM
@mrtnrln, well that settles it then. A shame really because the lightbulbs aren't as bright as the actual nightlighting, or fit the model particularly well.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on September 17, 2011, 07:30:40 AM
hi all, nothing new as far as the street mod is concerned, just some ingame pics to show what I've been up to lately.

But first.
(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/5835/65746468.jpg)
This weird glitch happened to me all the time and I was hoping a reinstallation would take care of it. I was proven wrong >:(
After fiddling with the options on the graphics card however, it's finally a thing of the past.  &dance

Almost everything is seasonal, even the tomatoes (in the top) change colours from red to yellow, didn't know that.
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7313/99466623.jpg)

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/230/23968918.jpg)

Having a go at a seasonal forest. Unfortuantly the shadows remain in winter time but I guess this could be solved by superimposing two pics, one taken with and one without shadows.
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7358/46688246.jpg)

Thanks to the positive effect of Lowkee's seasonal CP flora, the first medium wealth sims moved in. Kinda surprising since they live close to the 'powerhouse'   ;D
The water well is my own creation and for power there is the nexis sandpile. Still a bit confused as to why next to the sandpile there are medium wealth textures but not in front of it.
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/566/53607754.jpg)

Of course it couldn't last and the lot degraded. But there're still 8 medium wealth sims living in this nameless village.
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/818/23620146.jpg)


And finally some random shots.
(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9086/67567049.jpg)

(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3891/11960224.jpg)
note to self, when zoning on corners, the entrance props look weird

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7360/39795306.jpg)

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6735/34264555.jpg)


You may have noticed a distinct lack of carriages and other street stuff, that's because they're in desperate need of redoing (the T21 instances are a mess  &mmm).
But that's just one among many things to be taken care of, so stay tuned for more  &opr


Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: marsh on September 17, 2011, 12:24:42 PM
Amazing work. Even more-so that that is all grown.  :)

For the carriages why not instead of T-21's make automota? I understand the polygon limit and all. Is that what's keeping you from doing it? It would be worth a try though.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lior on September 17, 2011, 12:33:57 PM
Wonderful work!! COngratulations!!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: dwelln8hss32 on September 17, 2011, 12:44:32 PM
Votext, how I did not stumble upon your showcase in June, I'll never know. Your outstanding work here really resonates with the era of projects I'm working on. It hits home in a big way!! I'll try not to be such a stranger and offer feedback. Just, excellent!!!  :thumbsup:

Jake
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: dwelln8hss32 on September 17, 2011, 02:04:24 PM
@marsh: Great suggestion! If someone is working on carriage automata, I'd be a truly happy man.

Vortext, gotta say, love your carriage T-21's! The horses may look a bit strange without animated legs, but automata model can be pulled off, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on September 20, 2011, 12:32:47 PM
@marsh, thanks. It is has been a long standing frustration not being able to start out in a realistic fashion. In fact, it was one of the reasons I grew tired of simcity years ago, before discovering the online community. See below for more on the automata suggestion.

@Lior, thanks

@dwelln8hss32 / Jake, it will remain shrouded in mystery forever  ;) But I'm glad you did find your way eventually, any feedback is greatly appreciated. Feel free to drop a line now and again.

On the carriages automata issue; I would be lying if I said I hadn't thought about it yet  ;D
However, while looking into it, I came acros some issues which - perhaps unfortunately for some - make it highly unlikely I will go down that road street anytime soon.

First there's the modelling. As far as I'm aware, it's simply not possible to take a prop and conveniently turn it into an automata. It would require some 3d program, with which I'm unfamiliar, to import them and take the skin or start modelling from scratch.

Secondly there's versatility. Automata are applied to a network irregardless of development (if any). T21s on the other hand allow for every possible combination of wealth, zoning & rci-type (though not quite straight forward which adds to the hassle). 

Then there are minor issues like pathing. The streets are designed to have the carriages in the middle, which would make the automata in opposite direction crashing into each other all the time. Unless I redesigned the whole darn thing  $%Grinno$%

In short, it has already been a rather lenghty learning curve and I feel making automata would take too much time and effort for too little result. Especially given other projects already in the pipeline. I just need to sit down and sort stuff out but I had too much fun lotting and actually playing the game once in a while  ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on September 20, 2011, 01:12:34 PM
Really nice to see all the progress around here since I last visited! Things seem to be going really well and I like you're suggestion that it could eventually turn into an MD--It's certainly one I'd like to become more familiar with  :thumbsup:

Keep up the great work!  &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: jdenm8 on September 20, 2011, 07:50:35 PM
First there's the modelling. As far as I'm aware, it's simply not possible to take a prop and conveniently turn it into an automata. It would require some 3d program, with which I'm unfamiliar, to import them and take the skin or start modelling from scratch.
The latter. Without the original model used to render the prop, there is no way to do it. You would have to do it from scratch.

Then there are minor issues like pathing. The streets are designed to have the carriages in the middle, which would make the automata in opposite direction crashing into each other all the time. Unless I redesigned the whole darn thing  $%Grinno$%
It's a popular misconception that cars would crash into each other. In the game's reality, crashes only happen in areas of high congestion. Simply placing two paths too close together doesn't trigger a crash (Look at the Maxis Highway Ortho to Diag curve, the paths are very close together there).
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on September 24, 2011, 07:40:42 AM
@noah Yup, it's coming along nicely, not as fast as I want to but it'll get there. And it's encouraging to know at least one person would take an interest in an eventual MD  ;)

@jdenm8 Thanks for the info on the modelling. However I didn't mean the carriages would necesarily crash and spin out of control but that since they're in the middle, automata in opposite direction would appear to go right through each other visually.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on November 26, 2011, 06:34:52 PM
Long time no update and I'm somewhat sorry to say this one won't contain any street geekery. In part due to RL being, how shall I put it, tedious? %wrd
On the other hand I decided to start over yet again, this time around on a even smaller scale (bit obsessed with the idea of developing a region as chronologically / historically accurate as possible). This led me to fiddle with the terrain controller, trying to create a nice shoreline which I myself feel did turn out rather well.  ()stsfd()

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6128/seior.jpg)

And with the advance of seasonal MMP's lately I began to feel a need for other seasonal stuff to cover the ground and had a go at modding a few. So far I have done PEG weeds, which are green in summer, dead in autumn and simply disappear at winter. From Chris Adam's pasture flora I've taken the yellow wildflowers and blue bonnets which are bright in summer, normal in autumn and both have green grass for winter. From the same flora I've combined the green and brown rye grass for summer and autumn respectively, for winter it has PEG leaves. Also this last one exists in 3 formats. 'Small' with grass scaled at 50% and leaves at 100%; 'Medium' with grass at 75% and leaves at 150%; 'Large' with grass at 100% and leaves at 200%.

(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5884/seasonalground.jpg)

When I finally had the hang of it (and wanted to plop a seasonal willow tree at the shoreline  :P) I turned to the JENX tree prop pack. However here a small and rather odd problem arised.

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3399/seasonaltree1.jpg)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5551/seasonaltree2.jpg) 

In case you didn't noticed, what the F is up with this colour inversion? Moreover, it only happens for these two trees and only at these two particular orientations and zoomlevels.  ??? 
If someone has any idea how this happened and more important how to undo it, please let me know.

That's it for now, feel free to leave me a comment  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: jdenm8 on November 27, 2011, 12:52:16 AM
I'd say the render didn't work out properly on those two or the texture's corrupted as they're being rendered correctly in-game. You could probably copy the Model Exemplar from the prop pack into your mod and change the values to use one of the other rotation's models (It would also "fix" the issue in any other uses of the tree), probably the opposite side's one. It wouldn't look as good as inverting and rebuilding the texture and fixing the Alpha, but it'd be a quick fix.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: dwelln8hss32 on November 27, 2011, 09:45:33 AM
The shoreline rocks along your coastal terrain are very cool, I don't remember seeing any shoreline rock strata that rounded. It's also great to see you working with seasonal flora most folks probably already have. I too am obsessed with historic timelines and accuracy (19th c. MD coming soon), so I commend your dilligence. As for your willow tree problem, wish I had something useful to offer  $%Grinno$%

Nice to see what you're up to, keep it up!

~Jake

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: chester on November 27, 2011, 06:02:50 PM
Just finished looking through this thread and all I can say is WOW! I am so impressed buy the skills of all you modders and batters. The roads, the fields, the shore textures. Its all amazing.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on November 28, 2011, 04:44:18 PM
@jdenm8, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.  :thumbsup:  Should have been obvious it had something to do with the model textures but somehow I kept fooling around with the flora parameters.

@Jake, thanks for stopping by. As for your MD 'coming soon', it had me lolling 'cause in all earnest I myself thought my MD could be premiering early 2011. However as it stands now, it will be a miracle really if I make it early 2012  ;).  Anyway, let me know when yours is due, curious to see how the 19th century pans out and maybe you can put some of my stuff to the test. 

@chester, I'm all by myself and don't have any BAT skills whatsoever but I'll take your praise anyway  ;D. Glad you like it!
Title: Street Geekery - New Seasonal Street Mod
Post by: vortext on December 25, 2011, 09:40:08 AM
With the most recent addition to the growing collection of seasonal MMPs from the VIP team, it occured to me that someone really ought to make a seasonal street mod using these trees. After giving it some thought, I figured that someone might as well be me.  ;D

It was a pleasant surprise to find the trees from the Rural Expansion Pack actually have a spring model (as well as a snowy winter model). The first step was to incorperate those into the usual 3-model-scheme and create nice transitions in-between seasons. Second item on the to-do-list was creating the appropriate T21s, et voila.  :satisfied:
(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2949/93281216.jpg)
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5018/12162459.jpg)
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4563/11258619.jpg)
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9148/76631142.jpg)

Finally achieved the same alternating pattern for diagonals, something which discouraged me when trying the same for the lightposts previously.  ()stsfd()
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3664/78663153.jpg)

However, I'd rushed things a bit and the trees were annoyingly close on the edge (living dangerously, which we all know trees do) and thus cutting into farm crops, not to mention buildings.  &mmm This had to be fixed, even though it's probably unavoidable for the larger models.
(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/5894/36106810.jpg)


Meanwhile I'd come across FrankU explaining the 'prop random chance' (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=9146.msg386022;topicseen#msg386022) property. It turns out this is pretty useful for street modding, since it introduces some randomness to the otherwise repetitive nature of T21's.
The first application was adding leaves to autumn and winter (not wholly). At the moment it's still in lotting stage, to get a feel for the randomness.

(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6549/70008236.jpg)
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/56/44545432.jpg)

There's still a small chance no leaves appear at all, though I'm not sure it should for every single tree.
Finally when it comes to zoning, I'm thinking about small trees for residential, the larger models for rural and unzoned. Still some work ahead to be sure so stay tuned. Happy Holidays (http://www.christmas-corner.com/images/christmas-smileys/candycane.gif)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on January 09, 2012, 06:52:16 PM
Awesome work vortext  &apls  Indeed, about time someone made a street mod with those beautiful new trees and I'm glad someone was you  :D   As far as size goes, I really like them big though I can understand that can cause problems. You've got some room to move them inward from the tile's edge which should solve most of the problems. Girafe used to say his trees were too big for a street mod and would have to be re-scaled (I can't tell if any of those are his at your zoom, but the size is similar) but I've long had a suspicion that wasn't necessary. Looking forward to more  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: dedgren on January 09, 2012, 11:16:21 PM
A K-point for some really nifty tinkering here, my friend.  Now that I've found this thread, I don't plan to lose track of it.


David
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 10, 2012, 06:56:26 AM
@David, thanks for the K-point. And yes, I like to tinker  :)  Be sure to keep an eye out, it's almost done and without mayor setbacks, I plan to make a new update anytime soon.

@Noah, the issue with Girafes trees isn't so much the scale as is the fact they're clusters, making them unsuitable to line the streets with. In fact his 3 4 packs (Birch/Oak/Maple (x2)) each contains only 1 single tree and in comparison they're rather too small than too big. However, I did use some of his clusters for the wide curves. Like I said, it's almost finished and hope to show it soon enough.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 23, 2012, 04:38:27 PM
Finally a proper update with full-fledged, unadulterated street geekery. So let's get on with it.

Trees
18 in total. As stated before, smaller models for residential, larger models for rural & unzoned and two-toned leaves in autumn and winter. Added a number of different T21s to the wide curves.
(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8589/93668763.jpg)
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/783/72995347.jpg)

To be clear, I did use some extra mmps, just wanted to show off  :P

Chickens and pigeons
Though scattered throughout, the former will appear more often in residentials zones, the latter more often in agricultural zones.
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5986/43963121.jpg)

Ravens
These are notoriously hard to spot and I've considered leaving them out. On the other hand, it is quite fun to spot a bird once in a while.
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3543/58800914.jpg)
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5518/84091183.jpg)

Pigs
Foraging all around. Also notice the wide curves again.
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3585/64531794.jpg)

And that's it.  $%Grinno$%

Well, it sorta is as far as the props involved are concerned. The most significant aspect of this mod however is the variabilty in appearence, at least to me it is. Not only are the trees seasonal but due to a combination of properties in the prop exemplars, the animals will come and go in a random fashion, yet retain a yearly cycle. For instance, in summer and spring there'll be more pigs (with piglets) then in winter. And in autumn there'll be more birds in general then in spring, when they are nesting. It's hard to convey this in static pictures, so here's an animation to get an idea, it loops through one year, click (http://megaswf.com/file/1983847)

Needless to say there're still minor issues to be ironed out (specifically prop timing with regard to seasonal MMPs) but overall I'm pretty happy  ()stsfd()

In fact, I was thinking about releasing this mod into the wild for the trolca dirt streets. Or perhaps for the PEG streets, though the trees would be awful close on the street shoulder. However, before deceding wether to do so, I need to know two things.

First, would you be interested in such a mod?

Secondly regarding dependencies, some of the leaves were taken from SFBT_voltaic_Props.dat and I have no clue whatsoever which download it originally came with. If anyone does, please let me know.

Finally for those who may be wondering what happened to the previous street mod. No worries, it's safely tucked away on an external HD waiting to be revitalised. It may be a while though, given the chronological development I'm aiming at. Which, as you may have guessed, just entered medieval times while the so-called Dirt Streets were designed to fit a later period (19th and early 20th century). Besides, I've started something new already  $%#Ninj2

That sums things up for now. Your comments, suggestions, critism or just random remarks are all much appreciated, so leave me a message.   
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on January 23, 2012, 04:53:56 PM
looks real good Vortext.  Your video didn't work, but the link does.

I believe SFBT_voltaic_Props.dat is in SFBT Essentials (or should I say, gets installed when you install that).

I also think that if the Seasonal Flora were made into Props, then that would be a good mod on it's own.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gringamuyloca on January 23, 2012, 05:10:18 PM
 &apls

Wow! so absolutely, incredibly, so, so, so... awesome!  ;D

I think a karma point should head your way - toot sweet!  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on January 24, 2012, 07:34:03 AM
Hi Vortex,

This is very good work! I propbably won't use it, because I decided not to use seasonal trees. It's just.... well, it's so much work.
Besides that: playing the game isn't what I do. I make lots these days....

But it would be foolish to think nobody will be interested!

And the SFBT_voltaic_props is indeed part of the SFBT Essentials.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: dwelln8hss32 on January 24, 2012, 09:43:09 AM
I think it looks great, and I'd definitely use your dirt streets mod in the game. I'd have to keep an eye on my mods folder and only use this in "dated" city creations, since obviously this wouldn't be compatible with SFBT's Street Treet Mod, or Jeronij's Sidewalk Mod. I'd suggest testing for compatibility with PEG's Agricultural road mods, but that's your call. Also, love the nice touch with the animal props!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 24, 2012, 05:08:41 PM
@Lowkee33 / Carl, thanks. Too bad the video didn't work. And still doesn't btw, how hard could it be right  :angrymore:
And yes, all flora was made into timed props  ::) Should come in handy for use in the lot editor indeed.

@Gringamuyloca / Tamara, be carefull now, don't forget to breathe  :D Glad you like it.

@FrankU / Frank, it's more or less the same for me, I spend way more time modding and lotting than actually playing. When I do however the seasonal stuff is all the more worthwhile  ;)

@dwelln8hss32 / Jake, compatibilty is an issue I haven't been bothered with yet. But you're right, I suspect it isn't with any mod mentioned. In fact, it would probably be best if the end user would remove SAMs T21 alltogether. From a developmental stance it would be anyway but it might be too complicated for regular users. Anyhow, will look into it.

On a sidenote; does anyone notice anything different on this page? No, nothing yet? Look carefull at my profile . . closer still . . you see ?  ()stsfd()
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gringamuyloca on January 24, 2012, 05:54:05 PM
On a sidenote; does anyone notice anything different on this page? No, nothing yet? Look carefull at my profile . . closer still . . you see ?  ()stsfd()

I won't say I'm the most observant person around.... ;D but I believe that NAM Associates badge I see there is rather new.  :thumbsup:
Congrats!  &apls

remembering to breathe.  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: dedgren on January 24, 2012, 08:15:48 PM
Big 'grats for becoming a NAM Associate, my friend.  I hope transit modding doesn't distract you too much from the great rural detailing work you are doing here.  Your last update was fantastic stuff.


David
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on January 24, 2012, 08:24:49 PM
Great detailing on this update again vortext! Things are really progressing and looking nice  &apls

And a big congrats on becoming a NAM associate!  Feel free to ask me if you have questions about anything  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: JoeST on January 25, 2012, 12:42:10 AM
Congrats on associating with that crew of crazy (awesome) people XD

Joe
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on January 25, 2012, 02:57:38 AM
@FrankU / Frank, it's more or less the same for me, I spend way more time modding and lotting than actually playing. When I do however the seasonal stuff is all the more worthwhile  ;)

And the funny thing is: I am working on a quite large set of new farmfields and I try to make these as seasonal as possible (sometimes with four different stages), but the trees.... No no no!
This is mostly because it will be almost impossible to make all trees on all lots seasonal. And I fear my computer will get slow as a snail.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on January 25, 2012, 01:34:25 PM
Your project has attracted me from the beginning. It will be a great addition to the SAM. And the Seasonal Street Side Mod with the animals and birds will be very realistic and amazing! &apls
Other than that the pictures are wonderful. A very fine rural feeling :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 25, 2012, 04:52:32 PM
Thanks for all the kind words folks!  &apls

Sorry I don't have time nor energy to reply to each individually. Should be sleeping really but before doing so I had a few things to get of my mind. So here goes, in no particular order.


(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2761/15724626.jpg)

(http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/5364/62705874.jpg)



Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on January 26, 2012, 04:12:33 AM
Hi, the texture looks beautiful!
In the earlier images I only saw some dirt like brownish rubble. Is this the textre you are going to use for the streets?

My opinion: if you based your texture on CP's but have been heavily editing it I woud say: it's now your texture.
Have you ever seen a house built of bricks? As long as it's not a copy of an already existing house you cannot say that it is still the copyright of the first brick house that was built (somewhere in Jericho, about 10.000 years ago).
So a copy is someone's copyright, a very little editing still asks for copyright or at least some kind of reference to the original, a heavily edit is considered new work.
Agreed?

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 26, 2012, 08:55:27 AM
In the earlier images I only saw some dirt like brownish rubble. Is this the textre you are going to use for the streets?

They're two different sets actually. The brownish rubble are the Dirt Streets (finished), the newest will be a cobble stone set (only just begun and part of a larger project still  $%#Ninj2). The texture is fine on its own but needs some work to make it suitable for simcity; this is too dark and too repetitive for my taste. Also, I'm struggling a bit with kerbstones or something, this is way to clean a cut.

So a copy is someone's copyright, a very little editing still asks for copyright or at least some kind of reference to the original, a heavily edit is considered new work.
Agreed?

It does make sense yes. Still, feels kinda awkward claiming them as my own since CP did provide the basics (and if I do, he would be acknowledged big time off course). Would appreciate if more people could weigh in on this.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: mike3775 on January 26, 2012, 09:21:02 AM
IMO if you improved upon his textures, and are giving credit for the original for it, they are your textures.

Its just like lots I have seen on ST, someone did some lots in 2003/2004 and they were re-uploaded in 2009/2010 with improved textures, those people gave credit to the original, while also claiming it as their own
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on January 26, 2012, 09:43:02 AM
The point is that most of you that make BATs are not going out with a camera to photograph something in order to make a texture out of it, but take exisiting textures from, well, from wherever you take them.... So whose product was it in the first place anyway?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 26, 2012, 09:49:56 AM
The point is that most of you that make BATs are not going out with a camera to photograph something in order to make a texture out of it, but take exisiting textures from, well, from wherever you take them.... So whose product was it in the first place anyway?

err.. no BATting for me  $%Grinno$% But point taken, it will be released completely. Though I should note I normally take free-to-use textures which isn't the case now and I didn't want people yelling at me for stealing  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on January 26, 2012, 11:33:14 AM
Glad that these will be incorporated into the SAM! It's looking good  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 05, 2012, 07:51:26 AM
So, funny story. After having made a new sidewalk and retextured the wide curves and after figuring out compatibilty and such, turns out I'd forgotten all about quite a crucial bit.

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/667/12818739.jpg)

 :-[

You see, since I have no need yet for fancy intersections with other networks I overlooked it untill this very moment. Sorry for getting ahead of myself but for the time being there'll be no texture override.  &mmm

On with the good news then.

(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2893/32793371.jpg)
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/81/66202695.jpg)
(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/775/21194721.jpg)

A rather simple T21 mod. Adding seasonal trees and 2 type of birds to SAM 3,4 & 5 for agriculture and unzoned streets. At the moment it's being tested but I expect no complications or anything. Should be safe to use with other mods as well.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on February 08, 2012, 06:08:54 PM
I had the same issue with the streets I made out of Chris Adam's paths.  It isn't particularly realistic for a street like your first picture to connect to a road anyway.  As a solution I made a little TE lot from Chris Adam's textures to another SAM texture.

I knew there was a picture floating around.  The TE lot is 1x2, the intersection with Chris' path is a prop on that lot (you can see slight changes of textures as to what is a lot and what is network):
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3763/farmso.jpg)

(and yes, that field with a path through it is 4x1.  It's a pretty dense picture of modding...)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 21, 2012, 05:13:01 PM
G'day Folks!

Time for an another update, admittedly long overdue. In part because RL has been rather busy lately as I've been promoted at work. Well, sort of that is. The paycheck doesn't reflect the additional responsibilites nor the longer hours but at least I'm of the hook for half the time (pun intented, I'm sure you'll figure it out  ;) ). Anyhow, I've also found another area of interest when it comes to modding which I'll get to in a moment but first the street tree mod.

Test reports came back a while ago and in general it was deemed pretty decent. There were (and still are) some restrictions however, which make it a beta release for now.

    * trees are applied to SAM 3/4/5. Moreover only one type at a time!

    * trees are applied to unzoned and rural streets only. Mostly to avoid compability issues with the original SAM T21s and other mods.

    * a shoddy read-me. I'm no good at html. It does link to dependencies though.

Sure this could all be fixed but honestly, I don't feel like it. You see, I didn't think things through beforehand and ended up with no less than 144 T21 examplers just for the trees! I'll spare you the why and how but needless to say it would be pretty tedious to change all exemplar IDs by hand. And given this mod wasn't intended for release in the first place, I rather start out anew and develop a more user friendly mod, along the lines of the SFBT street tree mod which has a rather clever design (= much simpeler ;) ).

Long story short; those who want to give it a try are welcome to do so. It's available for download over here (http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g84e09a37e97fab31101159f30d11f10c3c85a5). Please note I'm not responsible for any unforseen conflicts that may occur but I'll gladly help out if it does. Others will simply have to wait untill a proper version is ready. This may take take a while though because last couple of weeks I've been captivated by something different alltogether.

On second thought, it's not that different. As you may have noticed I'm a big fan of all things seasonal. After I'd spent a week and half finishing up a medium tile however, I figured something had to give. Either I had to lower the bar and give up on seasonal flora. Or I had to up the ante and figure out a way to get it done faster, i.e. make a seasonal tree controller. Guess what?! ;D
All flora in the pics to follow are done with the god mode brush.  :satisfied:

It all started innocent enough; I just wanted to get the shoreline in faster, which was pretty easy.
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/214/stc2.jpg)

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2696/stc1.jpg)


And while at it, why not throw in some trees.
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7773/stc3i.jpg)


And what about some shrubs as well. 
(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/3691/stc4.jpg)

 
Actually it was quite a pain to get all the models to show. Which led me to explore the flora placement & spread.

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6131/stc5.jpg)

(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1633/stc6.jpg)


It was at this moment I realized an entire seasonal tree controller would be feasible. Having learned from former mistakes (i.e. losing track of files and settings) I took a step back and prepared for a more systematic approach. First I made an inventory of all seasonal flora available, including their respective RKT4s. Next it was a matter of mix & match and try to create different forest types and find suitable placement. Here're some examples.


(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/750/stc9.jpg)

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7475/stca.jpg)

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8882/stcb.jpg)

(http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9710/stcc.jpg)

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8613/stcd.jpg)

(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/3150/stce.jpg)

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5305/stc8.jpg)


This sums things up for now. Keep in mind it's far from finalized. So if you have suggestions which flora to combine, or any comments otherwise, please know feedback is highly appreciated. Thanks for stopping by!


ps: I'm still having ferry troubles, as explained  here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14512.msg417285#msg417285). Would be nice if someone has a solution.


 
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: j-dub on March 21, 2012, 06:41:03 PM
I will say, http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/9710/stcc.jpg is the most realistic bunch of tress I have ever seen. If I did not know that was an SC4 shot before hand, I would not know at all, since there is nothing else in that shot that resembles SC4.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on March 22, 2012, 03:23:12 AM
I'll give the tree mod a try. Thanks for making it available.

I am impressed by the flora brush. This is one of the best modding ideas since a long time. This could get me to actually use the seasonal flora.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on March 22, 2012, 06:09:32 AM
That's some beautiful work on the tree mod &apls &apls  Very exciting!

I'll have to have a look at the street tree mod as well and will be following progress on the release version  :thumbsup:

As for the ferries, I don't think I can help. I've barely ever used them, though I plan to change that and I'll let you know if I figure anything out in the process. The only two ferry ports in Siilijoki are WFK ones using vanilla automata if I remember and understand correctly--and I think the only traffic now commutes to the neighboring tile. I do think I'll have a look at those WMP ferries and see if they work for me. I'm always a sucker for HD rendering and they look very well made.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: jdenm8 on March 22, 2012, 06:37:41 AM
I've had some luck with some Custom Ferry lots working with the normal ones fine. I think it's more about which lot it inherits certain properties from. I know traffic from the Maxis Car and Passenger ferry cannot interface with the Maxis Passenger-only terminal and vice-versa.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on March 22, 2012, 09:36:54 AM
This looks very promising. A large project, but wow!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: mave94 on March 22, 2012, 10:44:13 AM
Those tree controllers look fantastic! :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: mattb325 on March 22, 2012, 04:43:33 PM
Very detailed work you are undertaking :thumbsup:

These are just suggestions mind you, as it looks good enough in present form &apls

For the tree controller (I assume you are using the SFBT, CP, TSC and Chris Adams models, so will keep suggestions to these sets), it is probably easiest to start backwards and go top-down - almost everything grows at sea-level, but not everything grows at elevation.

Upper elevations within the tree line:
Subalpine Firs, and smattering of birches (use the SFBT ones at highest elevation, they are smaller than Girafes) and the pasture flowers/grasses. As this decreases replace the Subalpine firs with conifers and spruce and increase the amount of Girafes birches and introduce more bushes (CP has quite a number of deciduous ones as well), taller weeds/grasses while decreasing the pasture flowers
Lower - Mid Elevations:
Start replacing the birches and decrease the coniferous plants with maples, cottonwoods and oaks and introduce the other TSC trees. Girafes bushes will make excellent open area complements when mixed with grasses; this is pretty much exactly what you have done.
Personally, I would limit the birches at the lowest levels: the scruffy browns and greens/dull yellows (there are a ton of trees with that autumn hue, including CPs) are more complimentary to a coastal/plain location and I would reserve the brighter reds, yellows and oranges for higher up...

I really like the ide of the poplars along the river banks, when mixed with the cattails it is pretty eye-catching :thumbsup:

These two pictures show a real skill in mixing this flora  &apls
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8613/stcd.jpg)
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1633/stc6.jpg)

All in all, very beautiful: the fact that the trees are spaced reasonably open and interspersed with grasses is particularly lovely, and one of my favourite features so far
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Jack_wilds on March 22, 2012, 07:46:23 PM
everybody has already said what I had to say,  &mmm sooo good work  :thumbsup: will give tree mod a good try...
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 24, 2012, 10:39:46 AM
@ j-dub, thanks, that's quite a compliment. Especially because it took me a while to get Girafe's models, which contains multiple trees, to mingle with single models. 

@ RickD, you're welcome. And I've also wondered why there wasn't a seasonal tree controller yet though I believe I know the answer, it's a lot of work! My guess, however, is you'll be able to use seasonal flora without too much effort in the future  ;)

@ noah, thanks and let me know how the street mod works out. As for the ferries, it isn't a pressing issue anymore since work on the region has ground to a halt. In fact, it's save to say it has been abandoned, yet again.  ::)

@jdenm8, I hadn't thought about cohort files before, thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into it when times call for a ferry. Won't be any time soon though.

@ FrankU, it's quite extensive yes but I believe well worth the effort.

@ MrMAvE94, glad you like it. :)

@ mattb325, thanks so much for the breakdown, I'm not that familiar with mountainous terrain and was having a bit of trouble how to proceed. Also glad you like the open spacing, it's more or less by necessity beacuse of Girafe's models and I personally prefer as little overlap as possible. 

@ Jack_wilds thanks for stopping by anyway :)

I've begun work on the highest elevations, does this look about the right hight for the tree line?

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8949/stcf.jpg)

(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5416/stcg.jpg)

Two types of fir done, three more to go. I've decided to finish forests first, meadows and grasslands come later.

Leaving on a personal note, at long last my vacation is coming up and I'm going to visit relatives in what I hope will be sunny Madrid. So it'll probably be a few weeks before I check in again. 

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on March 25, 2012, 11:08:27 AM
Looks real good Vortext  :thumbsup:

Are you playing with the Flora Parameters to set your tree line?  I wouldn't recommend that, because this is generally done within the terrain mod.  Different terrains have different snow levels, so the height that trees will plant is defined there (which is why the seasonal-flora-patch patches terrains, not tree controllers).

I believe the altitude of each level of tree is 1/15 of the height set in the Flora Parameters.  This takes care of the first 240 reps of teh FloraPreferences Property.  The last 16 reps start at the max height, and never end.  If you do want to make a perfect tree line, just keep those last 16 reps at 0.

I think I lined up my tree line pretty good with the snow line.  If so, it might even be possible to put snow covered trees in those last 16 reps (that was my idea anyway, when I was thinking about tree controllers).

It looks awesome, I enjoy the parts where trees are sparce, but maybe thats just the terrain guy in me :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 26, 2012, 04:41:18 PM
I do play around with both the flora preferences & parameter properties but only those present in the individual tree examplers. So the relative distribution of trees in the end is, much like you say, according to the terrain mod that one uses.

Do you happen to know by the way if there's some way to control the slope on which trees can and cannot be present? My best guess is it's one of the reps in the aforementioned flora parameter property. I do, however, also know (from experience :P) some of those reps control the timing of seasons. So what I'm asking is really; what reps should I definitely leave alone?   ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on March 26, 2012, 06:29:29 PM
Have a great time in Madrid and I hope the sun shines!!

The recent work looks great and between you and carl I have a pretty good feeling about the potential of the flora mod  :thumbsup:  &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on March 26, 2012, 07:24:05 PM
Rep 8 is the slope.  1, 6 are the important ones for seasonality.  Rep 7 (value 15050, or something) has something to do with seasonal flora, but as far as I know changing it will either have flora changing seasons or not.  (I changed it to 15051 for heck of it).  The most informitive post I've ever made about the parameters is Here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=12294.msg374067#msg374067). 
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 27, 2012, 04:12:11 PM
Thanks Carl, rep 8 works like a charm and you'll be happy to know trees don't grow on solid rock anymore. Hadn't come across your post before, the little information on this subject is all over the place, kinda like a treasure hunt.  $%Grinno$%

Will do Noah and me too!

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2049/stchrn.jpg)

:sunny:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on May 15, 2012, 03:57:33 PM
Picking up where I left off;

(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1135/stc10.jpg)

Pretty yes?  :satisfied:


Winter time is giving me a bit of a headache though. On the one hand I like to include the snow models as it's fairly easy to swap terrain controllers for the desired result. For instance using the Apalachian mod, flora was placed with the 'high snow' controller, for the winter pic I simply switched to the 'default height + snow' controller.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img821/1721/stc12.jpg)


This however also meant the snowline was lowered, i.e. suddenly decidious trees were surrounded by snow. Luckily, the VIP rural pack also contains proper winter models, which could circumvent this issue.
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2046/stc08.jpg)
The lowest snow line.

(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1746/stc09.jpg)
VIP winter trees.


So I'm wondering wether or not to pursue a fully seasonal tree mod, as my initial set-up was to make 2 tree controllers (conventially named coast & river ;)) with evergreen firs. Of course it's possible to do both one (or more) semi-seasonal mod and a full fledged seasonal version. It would only require more time still on my side and for the end-user to switch terrain controllers for a winter pic, which may be too much a hassle for some. Besides, folks that would like to create a winter scene most likely use MMPs anyway. Let me know what you think though.

On with the good stuff. Now I don't know about you but I for one was pleasantly surprised to see CP back on the scene with a brand new flora prop pack, all seasonal mind you! Less surprising perhaps I created some new forests, or brushes as I've come to call them. These are flatt-bed testing pics, haven't decided on placement yet.
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7996/stc01.jpg)

(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4152/stc02.jpg)

(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/143/stc06.jpg)

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/83/stc07.jpg)



Also had a go at meadows.

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/3540/stc04.jpg)

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1725/stc05.jpg)
winter - autumn - summer


I'm not particulary pleased with this. In part because the smaller the models, the harder it is to create a smooth brush with decent spread but mostly because there isn't that much small flora which has proper seasonal models. Basically a seasonal and HD remake of the ALN wild flowers would be ideal (any BATters reading along? ;)) untill than I'll makeshift.

That's it for now. Still some work ahead for sure, putting it all together in a coherent fashion and such. In the meantime, why not leave me a message?  :)

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Jack_wilds on May 15, 2012, 08:46:15 PM
impressive, really really wonderful....  &apls :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: packersfan on May 15, 2012, 09:10:47 PM
It is threads like this that make me tip my hat and nearly give up playing SimCity at all.  How can I compete with this, how can I build my cities without spend a ton of time trying to implement all these great REALISTIC creations.  Amazing what people in their free time create...too bad we don't see this stuff in games that are made by "professionals"...hehe.  Awesomeness!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on May 15, 2012, 10:27:12 PM
Looking real good there  :thumbsup:

Quote
Winter time is giving me a bit of a headache though.

I have a case of Advil left over from the terrain mod, but nothing beats Fukital.

JENXPARIS Seine River trees as Seasonal Flora (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2712) has both seasonal and non-seasonal varieties.  The non-seasonal exemplars share the same ID so that you only have to plant once and then switch exemplars to get different seasons.  Perhaps something similar could work for snow/no-snow.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on May 16, 2012, 02:55:42 AM
I would really love having a fully seasonal tree controller. I would not mind snow in the decidious areas if it only appears in winter. Green trees on snowy ground would look very strange, though.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on May 17, 2012, 01:43:35 PM
Awesome tree controller. The new CP props looks nice and I like to see meadows here.  &apls
I think the meadows may fit very well in the higher areas, just before the rocks where trees generally do not grow due to the altitude. Just a suggestion. :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on May 30, 2012, 03:15:26 PM
Hi, sorry for not getting back here earlier and without any pretty pictures no less. It's just lately I've been enjoying simcity the way it was intended and finally have something going that I would dare call a city. The population already exceeds 6000 sims, mind you!  $%Grinno$%

Ah well, guess slow development is the price to pay for wanting to lot everything myself.

Anyhow, I started putting brushes together but quickly realised not only must each individually be tuned, the entire treecontroller itself must have more or less the same consistency when it comes to smoothness, flora spread and the like. And it turns out that unlike lotting or minor modding, putting it together isn't something I can do for a short period of time. It involves a lot of going back and forth between the reader & the game which is rather time consuming in and of itself. Moreover I keep going round in circles, seemingly starting over again each time, despite writing stuff down. &mmm.
To put it in other words, the sheer scale and complexity of the ordeal is something I'm not comfortable with just yet.

That said, it has kept me thinking and as it stands now, I'll probably settle for three versions;

Mountain; for mountainous terrain, obviously. No shoreline, dominated by firs and will be the winter controller proper i.e. containing the VIP snowy winter models.

Coast; PEG weeds for the shoreline, pretty dense decideous forests which give way to firs and meadows at the highest altitudes only.

River; Girafe cattails & VIP poplars for shoreline, meadows at lowest altitudes, intermingled with decideous forest and small shrubs. Firs start appearing halfway.

Sounds pretty neat, right?! At least I think it does. Lets wait and see how it turns out.  :D



impressive, really really wonderful....  &apls :thumbsup:

Thanks, glad you like it.

. . how can I build my cities without spend a ton of time trying to implement all these great REALISTIC creations. 

Hehe, I wondered the same and somehow ended up doing it myself  ::)


JENXPARIS Seine River trees as Seasonal Flora (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2712) has both seasonal and non-seasonal varieties.  The non-seasonal exemplars share the same ID so that you only have to plant once and then switch exemplars to get different seasons.  Perhaps something similar could work for snow/no-snow.

That's an usefull idea, thanks!

I would not mind snow in the decidious areas if it only appears in winter. Green trees on snowy ground would look very strange, though.

The latter would look rather strange indeed but what about bare trunks on a snowy ground, would that be all right?

I think the meadows may fit very well in the higher areas, just before the rocks where trees generally do not grow due to the altitude. Just a suggestion. :thumbsup:

Suggestion taken into account.  ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: rooker1 on July 01, 2012, 10:26:30 AM
Vortext is our CCC-OSITM this month and with great reason, just look through his thread and see all the amazing work he has done for us.

(http://i1041.photobucket.com/albums/b416/threestoogessc4/OSITM%20Awards/CustomContentJuly2012vortext.png)

Congrats from The Staff and myself. &apls &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on July 01, 2012, 10:41:47 AM
Congrats on the OSITM.  &apls
Always interesting things here.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on July 01, 2012, 03:32:48 PM
This thread has been interesting for several months now.... But I am curious what you are going to show us this time!

Congratulations!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: art128 on July 01, 2012, 03:36:27 PM
Congrats! As seen by your works, this award is well deserved!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on July 01, 2012, 03:58:07 PM
Congratulations! When this thread was new I knew that it was "of special interest"--long before there was a CCC-OSITM. Luckily, since then, many more people have noticed the outstanding work you've been doing around here. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you'll have for us during your month in the spotlight  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 02, 2012, 04:10:48 PM
Thanks everyone! It'll be my pleasure to be of special interest this month. Should be fun as I've got a few updates pending regarding the seasonal tree controllers as well as some surprises. $%#Ninj2

However lets kick things of with a contest!  %BUd%

Thing is I want another title for this thread since last couple of posts weren't exactly street geekery anymore and I almost felt bad for deceiving the unwitting passerby while posting all these flora pics. $%Grinno$%

Anyhow, I was thinking something along the lines of 'Vortext's Virtual Playground' though I'm pretty sure you can come up with something less cheesy.  :D
So get those greycells working, entries can be submitted untill July 30th and I will pick a winner the next day. *


In the meanwhile, here's a random pic a.k.a. a preview of things to come. Enjoy and I'll be back soon.

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8323/59382207.jpg)



* not an actual contest since there's no price involved apart from some very small internet fame and my eternal gratitude of course.  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Battlecat on July 03, 2012, 10:12:33 AM
Congratulations on being selected for OSITM! 

Vortext's Virtual Playground actually sound pretty good if you ask me.  Have to say, I've got no complaints about you working on non-street related items!  The results are pretty spectacular!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Framly on July 03, 2012, 03:47:46 PM
Congratulations on being selected for OSITM!   :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on July 03, 2012, 05:51:48 PM
Lovely picture  &apls  What have you done to your water? Lovely and unique. More importantly, the flora looks great.

I'll see what I can think up for the competition....
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on July 04, 2012, 02:47:48 AM
Very promising picture.  &apls

I didn't think Vortext's Virtual Playground sounded cheesy. But I am no native english speaker so I might be missing something.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on July 04, 2012, 08:25:58 AM
The Vortex Singularity Point

It doesn't say anything about your activities, but it sounds.... well.... I'd take a look immediately if I saw a name like this.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 04, 2012, 02:20:23 PM
@Battlecat, thanks and glad you like it.

@Framly, thank you.

@Noah, nothing. . It's the teal version from ShockTherapy's HD Brigatine mod (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/27272-shk-brigantine-20/) in combination with the HD riverside beach mod (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/26517-riverside-beach-mod/). However both the water and beach texture seem to benefit from the tiling factor set in Lowkee's Appalachian mod. Notice the size of the 'pebbles' at the beach, they're way bigger than they would be with the use of an ordinary terrain mod, i.e. non-HD mod. Plus it's extremely shallow water so all the textures blend together rather nice indeed.

@Raphael, neither am I so maybe I completely misconstrued the concept of cheesy-ness  :D. Either way, this was the first name that came to mind but then I thought it would be fun to turn it into something participatory.

@FrankU, now this I like because sometimes I do wonder what would happen if all these and future mod projects of mine were completed to the utmost perfection and actually implemented in the largest possible region where not a single 16x16 meter tile would have gone unnoticed? Well that would be kinda of a simcity singularity and just like the real deal, everything would probably break down at that point. Just think of the size of that plugin folder . .   ;D

So let me write this entry down first and remind you folks, surely you can come up with something even better!  No offense to you Frank ;)

Now I was thinking what else to show you this month. And since it's unlikely I'll start a MD anytime soon, why not share some pictures from an actual city? Because I do play the game, every once in a while that is. This one is taken some time ago at the outskirts of my biggest and imho best city thusfar, Enseade. I've turned the 'table gathering' and other props that came with one of Jmeyer's farms (?, not sure about this) into a MMP for some window dressing. The 'courtyard' you're looking at has given way to a church since. Enjoy.

(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5773/62293609.jpg)




Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on July 04, 2012, 02:39:38 PM
Lovely picture  &apls  Really a thorough and creative combination of a number of MMPs, lots, etc into an attractive area.

Also, I vote for sooner rather than later on starting the MD  ;D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on July 04, 2012, 03:57:43 PM
What a pleasing picture! Very special feeling. It seem from the old times &apls
Are you using some Stockholm buildings by OddfromSweden?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: kelis on July 04, 2012, 04:41:20 PM
Congratulations for the OSITM my friend ! Well deserved you are doing a fantastic job  &apls &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: bat on July 05, 2012, 11:17:26 AM
Congrats on the OSITM-award! And nice work! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: art128 on July 05, 2012, 11:22:19 AM
Lovely picture, Vortext! Nice work with the MMPs.

Looking forward for more.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 08, 2012, 08:27:03 AM
@Noah, you'll be glad to know my MD is in the making. . as it has been for the past two years  :D

@Kergelen, do I use some Stockholm buildings by OddfromSweden? How about all of them?!  ;)  And many more of his BATs as they make for great R$ neighbourhoods.

@kelis, bat & art128, thank you.

Originally I wanted todays update to be about the tree controllers and give you all a little behind the scenes tour, so to speak. However while I was preparing this I came to wonder, why did I put this tree over there? Wouldn't it be better if those flowers were moved up and how in the world did I forget to put that item in?! Long story short, I kinda got distracted from finishing the update. So instead today I'll show you what probably will become my very first contribution to the community and without further ado, let me present you with DaveN's half-timberframed houses (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=12936.msg421467#msg421467), lotted by yours truly.

*Click pics for full size!*
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6669/57134194.jpg)


(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7672/28794660.jpg)


The set consists of 56 lots and as is my lotting practice, no Maxis props or textures whatsoever were used. Well apart from a fruit picker but that's an animation  ;D

Instead I used a bunch of HD props, as DaveN's houses are as welll, from Namspopof and WMP, in addition to seasonal flora and crops from CP vol2 and PEG's SPAM respectively. From the latter I've also used a number of textures, the overlays predominantly in combination with textures from BSC texture pack vol 2. All in all there're 7 dependencies, which I thought was a reasonable number especially since half of them are quit common. At the moment the set is being scrutineerd. And though I've no idea how long this typically takes, you can expect these to be available on a LEX near you soon.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Girafe on July 08, 2012, 09:20:33 AM
Hard work of lotting, a little bit far for appreciating HD but no doubt is well realized  &apls &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on July 09, 2012, 04:09:24 AM
Wow, 56 lots. That's a lot. (pun intended) Great to hear you are still working on that tree controller.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: bat on July 09, 2012, 09:54:17 AM
56 wonderful lots there! Nice work.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on July 09, 2012, 10:44:31 AM
These lots really look great (as do the BATS occupying them of course)  &apls   It's really awesome to have more options for working in Z6/HD and very nice to have someone doing more lotting to make that look great.

Building on rickD's reply, I'm thinking about calling your thread "vortext does a-lot"  :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 12, 2012, 03:40:28 PM
@Girafe, no doubt it took a while to finish but I actually like lotting, it's so much easier compared to modding.

@Raphael, thanks.

@bat, thank you

@Noah, yeah I'm kinda all over the place from time to time. ::) Your suggestion has been written down.

~
As I went along writing stuff down, this update kept expanding. In fact it became so extensive I decided to break it down in order not to bore you too much.

So today the first in a series of tree controller related posts. As stated before, it'll be sort of a making of. This installment details what goes into making a brush and what problems one typically encounters. Part 2 will look at the bigger picture, where it turns out things aren't as straightforward as they appeared to be. Finally part 3 deals with a number of miscellaneous issues. But lets get some terminology down first of all.

Flora item - three seperate SC4models, one for each season, held together via the Resource Key Type4 in an exampler file. Most flora items are taken from seasonal MMPs, though I've compiled a few fantasy items myself as well, most notably for grasslands.

Brush - a bunch of flora items strung together via the Cluster Type property. Think of this as your typical MMP, apart from a few properties. Just less properties actually.

Spread - refers to the spacing between individual flora items, as well as the behaviour of the brush in general. This is controlled with 5 variables and without doubt the harderst and most time consuming part. More on this later on.

With that out of the way, it's time to go ingame and make a nice selection of flora items. In this example I'm going to make a brush for what eventually will become the River controller (shown previously). As far as I know there's no limit to the number of items a brush can hold, though around 8 to 12 seems to work best.

(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2696/stc1.jpg)


Looks allright to me. The taller trees will complement the poplars, while the autumn colours will take the edge of the bright yellow SFBT birches. Or that's the theory behind it at least. Either way lets grab pencil and paper and write down these items. It should be noted I'm also going to include an item from CP vol2 which isn't shown here since it isn't included in any of the MMPs.

(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2152/stc2m.jpg)


Erm. . on second thought, I don't like this 'hard' green on the cottonwoods. Luckily most CP items also have a spring model so lets also scribble down a reminder to use those instead of proper summer models.


All right, now for the brush itself. It works best to go from small to large items, whereby height doesn't matter as much as the diameter of each item does. Since I've selected 12 flora items, I'm going to need as many exemplar files. The way to do this is first create a template file and clone it using the Reader. Below a breakdown of said template.

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3153/stctemplate.jpg)
There's seemingly very little to it, looks can be deceiving though.

Exemplar ID, the very first thing to set correctly, IDs are taken from my personal range. If you ever plan on making a tree controller (not recommended btw  $%Grinno$%) be sure to first request a range over here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=185.new;topicseen#new) otherwise conflicts may arise with normal MMPs.

Exemplar Name and Resource Key Type 4, for each item both are simply taken from its respective MMP. I've put all items along with their RKT4s in a large database for convenience.

Flora: Cluster Type, refers to the next flora item via its Exemplar ID. The last item in a brush doesn't have this property.

kSC4FloraPreferencesProperty determines brush placement. It works in a similar fashion as the terrain texture .ini table, for those who know what I'm talking about. Otherwise wait for part 2 where it's discussed at more lenght. 

KSC4FloraParametersProperty, the juicy bit as it's responsible for making seasons work in the first place. In addition rep8 controls the slope, while rep11 and rep13 control the spread for each item.

Flora: Cluster Max Radius, the amount of space, surrounding an item, in which it is allowed to jump to the next. Works in close relationship with rep11 and rep13.

Flora: Cluster Max Height, similar to the radius, except it doesn't seem to have much of an influence.

All in all it's pretty easy to set up a brush as it copy-paste for the most part. The hardest and most time consuming part is make it behave properly. Reps 11 and 13, in relation to the Cluster Radius are the three most important variables in this respect and each needs to be specified for every item. The two reps determine the amount of space each item occupies and can be compared to the occupant size for props. In fact I used to use the occupant size for each item though stopped doing so because it's not quite the same concept after all. For instance, with rep13 an item can be set miles apart from itself while retaining the ability to place other items in between and cluster to the next, as determined with rep11 and Cluster Radius.

There're no hard and fast rules what values will or will not work. I used to set rep 13 first for each individual item to determine the minimum space it required, before linking all items together. Quite a laborious process. Moreover, once linked together there's considerable interaction between items, a ripple effect so to speak, which can cause quite the headache. Typical problems are;

Undershoot - the brush doesn't show all items but instead gets stuck on an item half-way. Usually solved by increasing the Cluster Radius for that particular item.

Overshoot - the brush goes through items too quickly and only the last two or three show. Usually solved by decreasing the Cluster Radius for the first few items since they give way too quickly.

Gridlock - the brush does show all items like it's supposed to, however, items seem to get in each others way and pretty soon there isn't any room left to cluster. No matter how many times one goes over the area with the brush, nothing happens anymore.

This last issue may not seem like much of a problem since all items are present. However I'm trying to find the 'sweet spot' for every brush. That is, adjust the settings in such a manner the brush has a decent spread while retaining the ability to cluster endlessly. Or at least make sure it doesn't gridlock too soon. And if you don't mind I say so myself, but I've become pretty good at guesstimating the settings at first instance and manage to steer clear of these pitfalls most of the time nowadays. That said it still puzzles me from time to time why one brush will and another one won't work while both have similar items and settings. And vice versa, why two brushes behave similar while their settings differ wildly.


So enough with the talk, lets see how things turned out ingame.

(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/613/stc3.jpg)
Not too bad I guess.

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3691/stc4.jpg)

Note the softer green from the spring models. Much better as far as I'm concerned.

While all models show there're some issues here - of course there are! For one the JENX Quai tree needs more space around it and it needs to be placed further apart from itself. Secondly the small locus tree from CP shows way too often, while the larger trees could be more present. So lets go back to the Reader and tweak some numbers. Usually it hinges on decimals. Once that's done, go back ingame and check again. Not satisfied yet? Exit, tweak some more, go ingame once again, etc, etc.

So there you have it. There's relative little that goes into making a brush, except going back-and-forth a number of times. Usually it takes me an evening (±2h) to make one or two brushes, depending on the number of items involved and wether or not I screw up ::). However, one brush doesn't make for an entire controller! Stick around for parts 2 and 3.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on July 16, 2012, 01:29:00 AM
Very interesting look inside the making of these controllers, and very nice result  &apls  That going back and forth between modding and gaming can definitely be frustrating and time consuming but the basics of creating these isn't quite as intimidating as I imagined it. I'll definitely follow you advice though and not try to make this kind of controller  :D

Look forward to seeing more!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on July 16, 2012, 08:33:31 AM
Indeed very interesting.
And lets my admiration increase highly of those who do this kind of work voluntarily!  &apls to you Vortex!

I am happy yo are doing it, so that I can do some lotting in the meantime.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 16, 2012, 01:58:51 PM
@Noah, glad you enjoyed it. And you're right it isn't very complicated or anything, it just takes some patience (not exactly my strong point  ;D ). Parts 2 & 3 are under construction. Spoiler alert; lots of back-and-forth going around.  ;)

@Frank, thank you for your kind words. Don't sell yourself short though, your farm lots will make a great addition as well. In fact I'm already looking forward to reclaim large stretches of seasonal forest to make way for farmland!  ;)

~

Today another city picture. I've posted this a while back in the 'Show us your night pics' thread but guess what?!
 
It didn't elicit a single response. Nothing, nada, zip. Don't get me wrong,  I wasn't angry or anything, just a tad disappointed.  ;)

Though on the brightside, it did provide me a reminder not to be such a chronic lurker myself, besides an opportunity to post the pic again.

The picture is from Enseade, taken around the same time as the previous pic. In fact you can see the 'courtyard' once again at the top. Furthermore you see the outer left part of Porto Borealis, which stretches the lenght of the bay Enseade itself encompasses. 

Some street geek info; the palm trees are still around because I'm slowly working my way up towards an entire T21 mod for the city instead of tackling it all at once. In this case I had finally figured out how to do nightlights for T21s. In addition there's one really weird texture visible which I forgot to take out. Still a mystery why it showed up in the first place since I haven't been able to replicate it.

Enjoy!

*click pic for full size*

(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/269/enmbht.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on July 16, 2012, 03:12:45 PM
Beautiful picture  &apls  Distinctly your style which is something I'm sure many people would like to see more of, even if they don't say it. Luck, as well as lurking, has a lot to do with getting replies--my own experience tells that the posts I'm most excited about can get less replies than work I consider a teaser or a continuation of a project already shown. And with my MD I've noticed that there's a decent number of SC4D registrants that I've seen view my MD over and over, but have never decided to post. And I think it took me more than a year to post outside of the various NAM development threads. Long story made short, nothing to worry about when a "show us your" post fails to get a response  :)

About the T21ing projects. I've been really wanting to figure that out for a couple networks, diagonal TIA being most urgent, but haven't had the time or expertise to make anything happen yet. Here's an example of an area that would benefit from some trees, bushes, or barriers beings T21ed into the tram area of the network (click):
(http://www.majhost.com/gallery/noahclem/0712/diagd.jpg)

Suggestions on where to start? Or better yet, is it something you have an interest in?   ::)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 16, 2012, 03:52:54 PM
You're kinda ahead of me as far as the updates are concerned Noah! But what the heck, now is as good a time as any I guess.

A very, very early look at what I've dubbed the Comprehensive Cobble Stone Mod, encompassing tram, tram-in-street, tram-in-avenue, besides regular street and avenue of course.

(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/6775/ccsm.jpg)

It is at a very early stage really. More like a conceptual phase still. That is, trying my hand at creating new textures and figuring out the best way to create curves, curb stones, transitions to other networks etc. Though I did extract all the necesarry textures recently (boooorinnggg  :P) and collected a bunch of props a while ago (lightposts, fences, banners, etc). My intent is to create a fully wealth and zone dependent override for the GLR and related networks, designed to fit European city centres. So yes, that's something I'm interested in ;)


Anyhow, a few pointers if you want to get started yourself. If you don't have any experience T21 modding, do some reading up over here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=70.msg1905#msg1905) and here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7049.msg224353#msg224353). Both threads combined cover pretty much everything there is to know. And as is the case with the tree controller, T21s aren't that intimidating. That said, diagonals are the hardest to get a handle on so my suggestion would be to start with orthogonals. 
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: MandelSoft on July 17, 2012, 04:36:48 AM
Some street geek info; the palm trees are still around because I'm slowly working my way up towards an entire T21 mod for the city instead of tackling it all at once. In this case I had finally figured out how to do nightlights for T21s. In addition there's one really weird texture visible which I forgot to take out. Still a mystery why it showed up in the first place since I haven't been able to replicate it.

Enjoy!

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/269/enmbht.jpg

I see you figured out the technique I use for the LRM. It looks absolutely wonderfull :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gobias on July 17, 2012, 05:48:43 AM
Wow - love the early glimpse on the cobblestone mod!  I'm a sucker for good European mod work, too.  Keep up the good work here.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 20, 2012, 04:18:02 PM
@MandelSoft, sure did  ;D

@Gobias, glad you already like it  :)

~

I'd originally planned for the second tree controller post to be online right about erhm, well, yesterday  :-[

Things were a little crazy at work though and I was too tired to finish it, I'll get around to it this weekend. In the meantime, why not enjoy another (less worked upon) night pic?!

(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5834/cloister.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on July 21, 2012, 03:34:01 AM
Beautiful scene again  &apls  I'm quite curious to see the area during the day  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: art128 on July 21, 2012, 05:57:34 AM
Very nice scene indeed! The lights are so real, it's incredible!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 21, 2012, 09:34:19 PM
@Arthur, thanks so much, I happen to like it as well  ()stsfd()

@Noah, I'll have to see if a decent daytime pic exists, as the area is undergoing redevelopment currently I can't go back for one.

~

Today the second installment of the tree controller trilogy which deals with ensembeling an enitre controller. While this seemed easy enough at first, it turned out to be quite a challenge because of various reasons. For instance, each brush must be tuned to its specific placement, since brushes developed on flat ground offer no garantuee they'll work on hillsides, let alone in mountainous terrain. Quite a setback after having churned out a half dozen or so. Apart from that I'd also dissected CPs controllers and each one contains 701 exact same flora exemplars. Rather obvious why since it would be quite tedious to make new exemplar files for each controller. However, I was well on my way doing just so. Finally, determining which brushes look best at which spot is as much a technical issue as it is related to esthetics. For now I'll focus on the technicalities involved and leave you with a couple of pics so you can judge esthetics for yourself.

As mentioned previously brush placement is set with the kSC4FloraPreferencesProperty. This is basically a table consisting of 16 rows which represent height and 16 columns which represent moisture level. The two combined make for 256 available slots, in theory at least. In practice however the highest altitude isn't used as it would cover everything up above the maximum height set in the terrain controller. So in the end there're 240 available slots. Still a respectable number, though I don't intent to make individual brushes for each slot, obviously.

Another thing to know is each slot can hold one brush and one brush only. Of course one brush can be used at multiple locations. In addition it's worth mentioning only the first item of a brush needs to have FloraPreference set as the other items follow suit according to the Cluster Type. This also means a brush can be split over multiple locations. In this very basic chart below item 1,2,3,4 constitute a proper brush at position1. However item 3 and 4 will also show at position 3.

     p1  p2  p3  p4
i1   1     0   0    0
i2   0     0   0    0
i3   0     0   1    0
i4   0     0   0    0


Likewise it's possible to 'merge' a number of different brushes, though I only stumbled upon this recently while experimenting to see if the ClusterType could point to multiple items (nop, it can't). What I'd done accidently, however, was point the last item of brush1 midway to brush2 and surprise surprise, items from brush2 showed at the location of brush1. This had me puzzled for a while but after finding the cullprit and giving it some thought, it caused me to rethink my approach. Up untill this point I'd regarder brushes to be stand-alone products so to speak. This little mistake of mine made me realise though brushes can be build upon each other, which is especially usefull for making nice transitions.

Now for the controller itself; all that needs be done is determine the proper place for each brush which entails, you guessed it, going back-and-forth only about a gazillion times ::)

A more stressing issue, however, is how to keep track of each brush. The Preferences table is simply a table with 256 digits seperated by a comma and can be best worked upon in a notepad document, like so.

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/852/stctables.jpg)

As you can imagine, it's quit hard to see where one brush is relative to another, let alone see the overall structure. It took me a while to figure out a way which allowed me to actually see what I was doing. The best I could come up with was to migrate the placement for each brush into a main table. This isn't perfect because every change to brush placement has to be reflected in the main table as well. Very easy to forget and/or neglect this but I've learned to do it after every session otherwise next time I spent a good amount of time retracing my steps. And to a lesser degree the same goes for changes made to items. The righthand side of the (outdated) screenshot below shows different brushes that go into the shoreline for the River controller, which I've started working on first for no other reason I had to start somewhere.

*click pic for full size*
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4037/stcmain.jpg)
From left to right, tab RKT contains all the flora items, tabs Deciduous, Firs & Shurbs contain brushes and tabs PT are the Preferences Tables


So with a reliable set-up I could finally begin ensembling a controller only to encounter another issue; looks. In and of itself reason for endless debate since there's no accounting for taste, however, it's complicated even further because of the seasons.   

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7825/stc5j.jpg)
Looks all right to me


(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1633/stc6.jpg)
Eww . . looks like someone eat some bad flora and couldn't hold it in. .  $%Grinno$%


In this case I threw out these brushes and made new ones. But as things start to come together sometimes only one or two items need to be replaced, or maybe it's just enough to rearrange the ClusterType to get the desired look. Either way, the brush has to be recalibrated once again and of course the changes made must be recorded.

Now just for fun, there's one last thing to take into consideration when dealing with placement. Unlike height, moisture levels aren't spread out even over the terrain. Or to put it on other words, moisture levels are dependent on the landscape itself. So in order to judge how everything looks it's neccesary to try the controller in mutliple tiles, preferably in different regions.

All in all it's still pretty daunting, especially because some things aren't clear to me yet. I'll deal with those in part three. For now I'll leave you with two mosaics showing the upper altitudes for the River controller. Enjoy!

*click pic for full size*
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6200/stcm2.jpg)

*click pic for full size*
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2686/stcm1.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on July 23, 2012, 05:32:56 AM
Wow, those are a lot of numbers. I think I have to abandon the idea of making my own tree controller.  %confuso

But your results are getting better and better. In the pictures the trees are placed very sparsely. I mean, no large continuous forests. Is this the look you are going for?
I find it ok that way, because when I want a large forest I can fill it up, but sometimes a controller that places more trees would be handy, too.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 23, 2012, 02:18:43 PM
@Raphael, yes this is the look I'm going for as far as the River controller is concerned. The Coastal controller wil have dense forests.

With the benefit of hindsight a somewhat funny story on the side; this placement pattern was in part inspired by CPs Meadowshire which out of all his controllers I like best. Turns out, however, it's also the hardest to achieve.  &sly So I suspect the Coastal controller will take less time to develop since there're already numerous brushes to pick from, a workflow has been established and I actually know what I'm doing.   $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on July 23, 2012, 02:25:25 PM
Nice work again on the mod--the progress is looking nice, although the numbers have me in a little over my head  :D  Have you done something crazy to your shadows?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 23, 2012, 02:58:29 PM
@Noah, first the water, now the shadows. . you just want to accuse me of doing something crazy, don't you?!   ;)

@Raphael, something like this?

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9625/stc7.jpg)

Though I missed a few spots, it's basically a matter of ignoring moisture levels and focus on height exclusively. Like I said, a lot easier   :D


Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Jack_wilds on July 23, 2012, 04:42:28 PM
Vortext... its all very good and really promising... anticipating to get to enjoy this in my own cities... it does justice to what CP has done with terrain mods... this will just take it to the next level... I hope this finds its way onto teh LEX and doesn't get lost along the way... so back-up, back=up and then do it again... its all very good  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on July 24, 2012, 03:19:34 AM
@Raphael, yes this is the look I'm going for as far as the River controller is concerned. The Coastal controller wil have dense forests.

With the benefit of hindsight a somewhat funny story on the side; this placement pattern was in part inspired by CPs Meadowshire which out of all his controllers I like best.

The Meadowshire Controller is my favorite, too. The great thing about it is, that it does not place trees on buildable (eg rather flat) areas. This way, you can quickly see how a tile can be developed after placing the trees.

The picture of the coastal controller looks great, too. Good to know that there will be both choices. :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Schulmanator on July 24, 2012, 07:47:28 AM
You have a lot of interesting stuff here. This is my first visit, but I will surely be back!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 25, 2012, 06:01:28 PM
@Jack_wilds, thank you for your kind words. I'm looking forward to see it on the LEX too because that'll mean it's finally finished! And yes, I make back-ups on a regular basis.

@Raphael, spot on about the Meadowshire. Though I'm flattered you already like the coastal controller, it was more a proof of concept than anything else really. And there'll probably be some additional options for each controller to choose from as well which I'll discuss in the upcoming post. 

@Schulmanator, great to see you around here, really like your MD. Or should I say meuove your MD?  :D

~

A little while ago, woodb3kmaster asked me about the current status of the Dirt Streets. A rather good question because I wasn't too sure about it. Turns out things weren't in too bad a condition so I compiled a beta kit for him to use. While doing so, I got excited about using it myself which up untill now I haven't really done to be honest. For starters I've implemented timed carriages, just like the animals previously, so they come and go during the year.

Secondly I figured it also provided a good opportunity to finally develop a decent street tree mod which includes the latest seasonal flora from CP & the VIP team. I'm developing it along the lines of the SFBT mod. So with each passing season a different tree shows up at the same spot, which provides for nice variety in appearance but also means models sometimes overlap for a while. This in contrast to my earlier tree mod where trees remained stationary throughout the year, which I personally like better but it was also the reason why I needed so darn many T21s.   ;D

(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5062/97743783.jpg)
Rather large trees for rural zones already in place  ()stsfd()

It's nowhere near complete but something to look forward to as well.  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 28, 2012, 07:37:44 AM
Double post  :P

~

Today the third and final part in the tree controller series. There isn't much of a theme or anything but rather a number of seperate issues. First up are some rather annoying problems, some of which I'm still struggling to get rid of. The second half focusses on a number of ideas I'd like to hear your thoughts on. Lets get going though with said annoyances.


# 1 small trees
Hard to explain so I'll let a pic do the talking.

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5305/stc8.jpg)

See how in the area outlined in red there're predominantly small trees? It only happens with firs and it's as if that particular area doesn't have enough space for the larger models, while it sure does seem like there's enough room. I've tried many different times with many different settings but I just can't get larger models to show up there.  &mmm


# 2 brush boundaries
I've showed this pic before but it provides a nice illustration of the problem at hand. Have a look again at the areas outlined in red and notice how there aren't any items near the vicinity of the trees.

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/750/stc9.jpg)

This is weird because the trees and grassland are next to each other in the Preference table but it seems they don't get along well. It's somewhat of a mystery why this is because I've seen this happen in one spot but not in another. Again I suspect it has to do with the terrain and I really hope it can be resolved eventually.


# 3 waterflora
Items which are placed at the outer right moisture level show up at the wettest areas. However the presence of water isn't necessary so cattails and the like will also pop up inland.

(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7475/stca.jpg)

One could argue it's somewhat realistic, as if the area is prone to flooding or something. And if those wet spots are worked upon a bit with say, for instance, the smoothing tool, it's in fact possible to get rid of them. So out of all the annoying issues mentioned, this is actually the least pressing. Still, I don't particulary like it but there isn't anything really that can be done to prevent it from happening.


Now with that out of the way, I'd like to float a couple of ideas and hear your thoughts on them.


# 4 the winter shadow problem
Avid users of seasonal MMPs undoubtly know what I'm talking about, otherwise have a look below.

(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8882/stcb.jpg)
erm yes well you see, the sun doesn't know there aren't any leaves . .  $%Grinno$%

This has bothered me for quite some time. In fact right from the very moment I started using seasonal MMPs, well before making them myself. When I started doing so, however, the cause became easy enough to understand, as did the solution. As already mentioned, the Resource Key Type 4 holds all three models for each flora item. The downside of the RKT4 is SimCity will only cast shadows for the first entry, in this case the autumn model. So in order to get the proper shadows to show in winter, all it takes is a duplicate set of exemplar files which has the winter model as the first entry and presto, gone are those pesky shadows.

(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/9710/stcc.jpg)

Now this presents another problem in itself, which is suddenly all the autumn models are replaced with winter models. Or to put it in other words, unfortunately it isn't possible to get both autumn and winter models and their respective shadows in one picture, unless with a little photoshopping. That said, I'm entertaining the idea of creating a small patch file for cosmetic purposes only to go along with the controllers. Good idea?

# 5 meadows
While I've created a number of different meadows I'm somewhat hestitant to actually implement them. For one because it adds another, signifcant amount of items which may slow things down even further. In addition I don't like how some items look at the larger zoom levels.

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8949/stcf.jpg)
Click pic for full size and notice those bright pixel like spots.

Now I know there's the AppearanceZoomsFlag property which controls at which zoom level each item shows. That said, I haven't been able yet to figure out which values correspond to which zoomlevels. If anyone does, please let me know!

Apart from that I was also thinking to include meadows as a seperate option, especially for the River controller since the 'central area' shown in the pic above is left empty at the moment. I'd like to implement continuous grasslands which would stretch from top to bottom, pretty much like CPs Italia controller has. I haven't done so because of the aforementioned performance and zoom issues.


# 6 waterflora
Yet again, though this time a bit different. When a flora item has the property kPropertyID_WaterFlora present it can be plopped into the water a bit. Though it only works when the water is extremely shallow, it makes for nice, thick shorelines.

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/8613/stcd.jpg)
Normal shoreline

(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3150/stce.jpg)
'Waterflora' shoreline

However, the downside of this property is it overrides the height specified in the Flora Preferences which means the 'waterflora' will be all over the place, like so.

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6937/stcgz.jpg)

So this property basically renders the controller pretty much useless except for use on flat land. Though once again I'm entertaining the idea of making a 'waterflora' version for each controller so with a little extra effort, you can have best of both worlds by switching to the normal controller once the shoreline is in place (or the other way around of course). Too small a benefit to add or a nice little option to have for you control freaks out there?!  ;)


So this concludes the tree controller series. Though keep an eye out for a little something extra. In the meantime, please don't hestitate to leave your ideas, suggestions and critism below.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on July 28, 2012, 07:42:51 AM
nice. I like that neat idea of the shore flora  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on July 31, 2012, 03:42:17 PM
@gn_leugim, thanks.

~

Last post of this month being of special interest and it's been really enjoyable, despite interest seemingly lacking the last week or so. Must be the holiday season as the entire forum is a bit sluggish.

Anyhow, two more things today. First of all, I really wanted to have at least one tree controller complete by the end of this month. While I succeeded in doing so, it's not finished yet mainly because I just know it can be better; both in terms of behaviour and variety. Coincidentally, I also just happen to know it'll take some time and effort so I hope you can practice some more patience. In the meantime, I've got two more mosaics ready showing the lower half of the River controller, besides two overview pics to get an idea of the bigger picture (up to the seasonal firs, that is).

*click pic for full size*
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/4277/stcm4.jpg)

*click pic for full size*
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2838/stcm3l.jpg)

*click pic for full size*
(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6084/stch.jpg)

*click pic for full size*
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8966/stciv.jpg)



Now secondly - yes there were two more things for today, remember?!   ;)

As I said earlier, this month has been a lot of fun and it has, in fact, given me something to think about as far as a MD is concerned. However, before I start anything I first want to develop the region a bit more, as it's basically just one city as of yet. Moreover, between writing these updates and compiling the tree controller it has been somewhat neglected, so if you don't mind I'll be enjoying myself with the LotEditor for the next couple of weeks. Besides actually playing the game of course.  :)

I'll check in here again when there're new developments, of whatever nature. In the meantime, here's another mosaic of Enseade which shows the current state of affairs. Enjoy!

*click pic for full size*
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9295/citysquare.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: mattb325 on July 31, 2012, 06:20:41 PM
^^ Serendipitous  &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on August 01, 2012, 02:58:47 AM
wonderful is all I can say. very realistic, both flora and city blocks  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Flatron on August 01, 2012, 03:42:52 AM
perfetto! :)
both the city and how it is arranged around the canals and your arboretical work &apls &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on August 08, 2012, 04:56:37 PM
As I've already said (or at least implied) I don't even know what to say  :o  Or did I just say it?  :D

The tree controller progress is looking fantastic; the tweaks, variations, and options are promising at the least and at times beautiful in their own right, your city looks increasingly fantastic, the dirt roads project is looking even more beautiful than before, I can't wait to see more T21 mod business, and there's probably something else fantastic that you've done that I didn't even catch or forgot. You're SC4 work and ability has a fantastic variety and depth. Hold on for a bit while a wrangle up a well-deserved K-point for you....

Awesome month  &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on August 28, 2012, 09:06:06 PM
I came by here a few times once upon a time, and streets just aren't something I'm that excited about, so I had stopped frequenting.  All these street mods are beautiful, for sure, but the only issues I've ever really had with road textures is the mess that sometimes occurs when you drop RTMT on NAM turn lanes.  Then I found your link in Orange's thread, and WHOA! TREES!  ;D

I'm also excited, because if you're making a tree controller with these trees, then I don't have to.  Not that I was progressing terribly far with it, but it was something I pick at every once in a while.  Anyway, I'm happy to see how you've progressed with the tree controllers, and can't wait to see the final product.

I noticed a few posts back you figured out the ease of managing the data with Excel.  .csv files come in particularly handy, because you can readily swap the data back and forth between spreadsheets and plain text to paste into Reader.  As far as keeping track of all the changes and updates, a lot of that can be handled by equations to make it less tedious.  Speaking of programmable spreadsheets for tree controllers, have you seen this? (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11566.msg341171).  I never used it to really create anything, so I can't vouch for it's accuracy, but it uses Java and Excel together as a data management tool.  It seems to mostly be aimed at tweaking existing controllers, but I think it could be useful as well at least for troubleshooting new ones.  Providing all that Java works as advertised, which as I said, I haven't tested.

I'll cast a vote for a denser tree controller as well, something with coverage similar to c.p.'s Olympia controller would be awesome.

Onto some of your questions/issues:
#1. The small trees actually look good there.  My best guess is that that particular location has a height/moisture condition that favors those trees - though if you've controlled for that already, I don't have any other ideas.
#3. Not so bad, I like the realistic effect of creating swampy areas.
#5. Meadows are tricky in that the models are so small they can get lost in the terrain texture.  Adding the occasional small tree might counteract this without losing realism.  Your later mosaics look like you've taken this approach, and they a good bit better than that first meadow shot did.

Those last few mosaics look beautiful, and make me wish autumn would hurry up and arrive.  ;D

Looks like you've got things in pretty good shape, I'll definitely have to keep an eye on things over here.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gobias on September 09, 2012, 10:59:39 AM
Tree controllers are looking fantastic!  Not sure if you've considered this but a nice touch would be to add a Maxis tree replacement option using VIP flora.  I've made a quick and dirty one for my personal use (non-seasonal) and I found it was one of the biggest aesthetic improvements I could have made to my game.  Simple but very effective way to avoid having to change props on all the zillions of lots in my plugin folder and it's also a nice way to swap out the ugly Maxis palms for something less tropical.  It's a relatively easy mod to make compared to a controller; similar to making a street tree mod.  Though I've never attempted to make one that's seasonal.  Anyway, just a suggestion.  Keep up the excellent work!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on September 09, 2012, 12:19:45 PM
@ mattb325, gn_leugim, Flatron, Noah; thanks for all your kind words, greatly appreciated!!  &apls

@ whatevermind, shoot! If only I'd known you had a go at it as well!   :D

I hadn't come across the tree controller tool before. As I said earlier, information on this subject is all over the frigging place! Java does work for me (yay for Jondor's T21 editor  ;D) but I actually use OpenOffice so it is a no go for me. Though I guess somekind of batch/script thingy could be set up in there as well, I'll stick to copy-paste for now as figuring it out will most likely take up a consirable amount of time for a relative small benefit. As for denser forests, I hope you'll like what you see below.

@Gobias; I've thought about it but alas, afaik there's no way to override a static prop with a timed prop and as you may have guessed I like to have everything seasonal.

~

Still working on those controllers folks but at a snails pace. As indicated I've been busy lotting all kinds of stuff recently and having a darn good time while doing so. But that's not to say I have spent all my time in the LotEditor. Both the shoreline and the lower altitudes are in place for the coastal controller. 'Only thing' left to do is work my way up. :D

Seriously though, it made me realise I still need a boatload of new brushes which I've been making at a rate of 1 or 2 per week so you do the math. In addition, I'm kinda awaiting the latest creations from our most talented flora sculpter to hit the LEX. Lame excuse for procrastinating, I know. ::) Hope you enjoy these next few pics though!

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7945/stc0a.jpg)
Did someone say dense forests?! Oh right, it was me.  :P


(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4067/stc0b.jpg)
Same brushes as above during summer time.


(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/7702/stc0c.jpg)
Only cattails are shown. The proper shoreline consists of two additional brushes which hold smaller items before the forest begins.


(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/2345/mbridgeresized.jpg)
Fun fact; turns out customizing bridges is far easier than anticipated.  ()stsfd()


(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4697/mz62kopie.jpg)
Now I'm going out for a drink in this bar for locals only. Feel free to join though, if you can find it that is.  ;)

Cheers!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on September 09, 2012, 01:14:03 PM
that second to last picture is.. amazing!  :o :o

also, the woods are pretty real, I cant wait for having them :P  :thumbsup:  &apls &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on September 10, 2012, 02:41:48 AM
Tree controllers are looking fantastic!  Not sure if you've considered this but a nice touch would be to add a Maxis tree replacement option using VIP flora.  I've made a quick and dirty one for my personal use (non-seasonal) and I found it was one of the biggest aesthetic improvements I could have made to my game.  Simple but very effective way to avoid having to change props on all the zillions of lots in my plugin folder and it's also a nice way to swap out the ugly Maxis palms for something less tropical.  It's a relatively easy mod to make compared to a controller; similar to making a street tree mod.  Though I've never attempted to make one that's seasonal.  Anyway, just a suggestion.  Keep up the excellent work!

It would be nice if you wold be able to finish it and publish it on STEX or LEX. I'd really like to use it. I have the SFBT maxis/CP exchanger at the moment, which is good too.

Ah, and before I forget: Vortex, your streets and tree controllers look fantastic!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on September 12, 2012, 04:08:11 AM
The first picture with the fall colors looks fantastic. I like that there is an organic mix of trees with a lot of variation. Yet it does not end up in random chaos because the same models are grouped together.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: sim_link on September 12, 2012, 09:58:51 AM
I agree with RickD, the fall picture looks really good. My favourite of the above. Definitely nice work. :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Vlasky on September 12, 2012, 11:43:26 AM
I really like what you do. I was wondering tho, what happened to the seasonal flora on street sides mod? I was dreaming about that for so long ...
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: tb7 on September 13, 2012, 10:48:08 AM
very good work are u doing!  &apls

What watermod do u use?
What about cattails also in water? for some cm? hmm... does that work with a controller?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on September 28, 2012, 04:07:40 PM
Hi vortex,

I don't get over to SC4D much, but I followed your link from simpeg and I must say your work is fascinating.  Your dirt roads are amazing, and the progress on a seasonal tree controller is admirable - I can't imagine working with so many variables.  Keep up the great work! 

PS - I noticed some old wooden sailing ships next to a wharf a few pages back (night mosaic) and I was wondering where you found them.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on October 05, 2012, 11:23:47 AM
Why haven't i visited this thread before?! 

I need to browse through it and see how you got the seasonal trees to plop from god-mode.  I've been thinking about making my own pacific northwest style fully automatic tree controller but that's what's been holding me back.

I'm not particulary pleased with this. In part because the smaller the models, the harder it is to create a smooth brush with decent spread but mostly because there isn't that much small flora which has proper seasonal models. Basically a seasonal and HD remake of the ALN wild flowers would be ideal (any BATters reading along? ;)) untill than I'll makeshift.

This would be ideal.  I would KILL for updated HD small flora, especially wildflowers.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 05, 2012, 11:58:19 AM
@gn_leugim, Frank, Raphael and sim_link, thank you all!

@Vlasky, erm well, you see, what happend is I have this 'to do' list and it just keeps expanding like crazy. In fact I could swear the bugger is self-replicating nowadays. The other day I had a peek and there were things on there I couldn't remember writing down in the first place! So yeah, I'm still planning to do a seasonal tree street mod, just gonna be a while though. If you can't wait my suggestion would be to try and make one yourself. It's not that hard!

@tb7, in that pic I've used the teal option from ShockTherapy's HD brigatine watermod (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/27272-shk-brigantine-20/). As for the cattails, yes, those can be plopped into the water a bit with a controller. Not sure what you mean with 'cm' though.

@Simcoug, funny isn't it?! I didn't used to get over to SimPeg that often eventhough I'd been registered for quite a while. As for the sailing ships, given your MD I imagine those might come in handy. One ship actually is from PEG (here (http://www.simpeg.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=239)). Next there's Orange's Le Belem (http://www.toutsimcities.com/downloads.php?view=1642). Finally and best of all, there's the awesome Ship of the Line, available in HD at Briplaza (http://www.bripizza.net/sc4/index.html). Click on 'BAT' at the top of the page, next hit 'landmarks', the ship is somewhere halfway in the list. Enjoy!

@epicblunder, more small stuff, yes please! Though CP's recent proppack contains a decent amount of shrubs, I still think there're way too few of them. Not to mention wildflowers, those are seriously lacking. BATters?! As for making your own controller; I'd suggest to take an exemplar from a seasonal mmp, assign a new ID (from your own range preferably) and have a look at this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13223.msg428503#msg428503) to edit the exampler to look the same. It's quite easy to get it going, it's the rinse and repeat that makes it . . erm, challenging shall we say?!  :D

~

Basically I just wanted to do the replies and let you folks know it's getting closer with just a few heights left to do. .

(http://imageshack.us/a/img600/590/socloset.jpg)

So keep an eye out because one of these days, I tell you, one of these days. . .  ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on October 05, 2012, 01:19:59 PM
I can't wait  ;D %BUd%
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on October 05, 2012, 03:54:31 PM
are you gonna releasing that awesome tree controller?? ;Dcan't wait :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 05, 2012, 05:08:56 PM
Lets nip this in the bud before anticipation rises too high. No, it's not gonna be released at large immediately. At present there're still a few issues too many to be adressed. For instance;

(http://imageshack.us/a/img209/3164/stc0g.jpg)

This happens for all of CP's terrain mods and I still have to figure out all the proper values for the Flora Elevation Scale. It's not hard to do, yet a bit tedious since CP made quite a few terrrain mods, each with high/low options. Once that's done I hope Carl/Lowkee33 will be kind enough to update his Seasonal Flora Patches (though I haven't seen him around much lately).

In addition there're a number of things I want to put together for an official release; shore controllers, optional meadows, optional snow/evergreen firs, a cosmetic winter shadow patch, a read-me and compatibility between the two controllers (because I just know there are folks who are going to use both, myself for instance  :D).

That said, as many of you probably know, treeing a tile can take up some time. And since I'd like to get feedback on appearance and behaviour before release as well, I'm thinking about a round of beta testing. So if you're interested in giving it a go and tell me what you think afterwards, leave a message or send a PM and I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Though keep in mind there're quite a few dependencies involved (~20) and it's still a little rough around the edges. I'll leave you with the latest state of affairs. Enjoy!

(http://imageshack.us/a/img12/8673/stc0e.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img339/776/stc0d.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on October 05, 2012, 05:22:18 PM
epic forests made easy :O  &apls &apls &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: art128 on October 05, 2012, 05:34:25 PM
 &apls &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on October 05, 2012, 08:17:00 PM
(raises hands and jumps up and down like a little girl)  I'll test it!   :D  But I'll be honest; what i really want is an opportunity to see what you did with the floraproperties values vs. c.p.'s   ;)  I've tinkered with tree controllers before so i know what i'm doing with the florapreferences table for trees and elevations, but i have no context for what the value of the reps in floraproperties actually mean.  I hate not knowing what random decimals do, i only know that the decimal fro rep 8 should correspond to the same decimal for the slope to show rock texture.

edit:  also, are you using only one forest brush at a time per slot in the florapreferences table and setting everything to either 1 or 0?  Have you considered mixing multiple brushes in the same slots like c.p. did with decimal values in the table?  I realize that's a total pain though.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on October 06, 2012, 03:52:32 AM
excellent shots!these forests are simply great!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on October 06, 2012, 04:57:39 AM
Beautiful pictures Vortext  &apls  I always enjoy getting a peak at what you're working on over here. Great job with the retextured bridge, also!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 06, 2012, 08:34:19 PM
@ gn_leugim, art128, Gugu3, Noah, thank you!

@ epicblunder Glad to see at least one volunteer! Guess I'll send you an uncompiled version then so you can easier identify different brushes and pick them apart.  ;)

Now as for mixing things up; frankly I have no clue why CP sometimes used decimal values in the FloraPreferences, or why it's set for every item for that matter. The preference table works in a binary fashion, each slot can hold one brush or no brush. When two brushes occupy the same slot, the one with the largest value gets placed, regardless of decimals. In case of equal values it's the loading order which determines brush placement. Furthermore only the first item of a brush needs to have FloraPreferences set, the rest follows suit via the ClusterType.

That said, it's possible to mix different brushes, up to a certain extend that is, by linking them together. This basically creates one giant brush over different heights and moisture levels. And it's actually another reason why it's not ready for release yet because before mixing things up, I figured it might be handy to first have a decent number of brushes.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on October 07, 2012, 03:19:22 AM
well vortext if you want me to I can have a go with your beautiful tree controller :thumbsup:let me know!so you have at least 2volounteers :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on October 07, 2012, 03:55:15 AM
If you want I can test too, I have a nice empty region to paint :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on October 07, 2012, 12:45:18 PM
wow Amazing pictures :o

Here you have another volunteer. Dependencies are not a problem. I love trees and would love to try your tree-controller in different attitudes!
I like the flowers in the Alpine meadows near the snow.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 07, 2012, 02:04:27 PM
@ gn_leugim, Gugu3, that's great, thanks! And I'd like to see some seasonal regional views!  ;)

@ Kergelen, I thought you might like that.  ;)

~

Quick note, I had a minor setback because it turns out JENX's SD Quai trees are locked and his HD replacement pack does not contain the same models. So I had to make some last minute replacement here and there, which is a shame really because some of the SD models had really nice autumn colors. Ah well. The dependencies list is almost complete - I think .  :D

EDIT: everybody check their mail!  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on October 07, 2012, 04:35:40 PM
I'd be happy to test if you need another subject :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on October 08, 2012, 04:45:06 AM
Those last two pictures are absolutely stunning.  :o

I would love to beta test. My mountainious region should be quite a challenge for every tree mod.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 08, 2012, 02:05:55 PM
@ RickD & Simcoug, check your mail.

@ everybody passing along just now, beta is closed. If you're interested you'll have to wait for another round (if any) or official release.  :)

~

Also, I just realised I totally forgot to mention trees should be planted on september 1st!*
It's such a given for me so I hope it's obvious for you guinea pigs out there as well.  :D

* actually trees planted from august 4th to september 3th will change at september 1st from the next year onwards.
Trees planted on or before august 3th will change at august 1st from the next year onwards.
Trees planted from september 4th to october 3th will change at october 1st from the next year onwards.

Given this and some additional effort you can create a nice transition between seasons instead of having the forest change at a heartbeat.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: art128 on October 08, 2012, 02:17:20 PM
Good luck RickD and Simcoug.  :thumbsup:  Don't forget to post some nice pictures, so that we can drool even more until the official release.  :) :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on October 08, 2012, 07:18:00 PM
Soooo, got a chance to do some testing.  Everything seems to work fine from the technical side.  I couldn't get the controllers to drop meadows, so were they not included in this beta? edit: silly me, just checked the preference table an answered my own question.

I was a little surprised by how much spacing you left in the upper elevation brushes, but i guess my experience living in a cold jungle has shaped how i view flora spacing.  Although i must say, the greater spacing will have better performance than any computer-lagging god mode brush i would make.   ;D  After looking at some pics of the eastern slopes of the rockies it looks like the higher brush matches that area pretty well.

I won't flood your thread with pics, instead i'll just show my favorite of the ones i took.
The coastal controller on one of my personal mountain maps: (click for full)
(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1puU04F7AaFZdu5NDpFDjrtbLIaIGJR9KNtS9jTozYphGhAC4S1BhEjyEg0PeqCWadRwJoaJBWZC6FyjWBIKh7a69SdP8Jb956/vortex%201.jpg?psid=1)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on October 08, 2012, 07:46:01 PM
Epic! Me wants it!

Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on October 09, 2012, 02:16:42 AM
just some testing...
a mountain road

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/7739/albertpass1.jpg

high mountain pass

(http://imageshack.us/a/img221/6751/albertpass2.jpg)

finally a map shot

(http://imageshack.us/a/img29/2323/nuovacitt.jpg)

very nice :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on October 09, 2012, 03:23:57 AM
Really amazing controller Vortex. The succession of trees along the attitude is fabulous &apls &apls

Yesterday I sent you a PM but I had problems with my computer and don't know if you finally receive it. I experienced a problem with this MMP (http://www.simpeg.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=399). I can send some pictures again if you didn't receive my PM.

Some more pictures of the coastal-controller combined with PTM and Ennedi's HD rock.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img402/245/controllervortex1.jpg)

A picture of the higher attitude flora: the alpine meadows

(http://imageshack.us/a/img248/8087/controllervortexmeadows.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on October 09, 2012, 07:35:54 AM
I get the impression there's a little squareness in that last picture. Or is that the terrain, perhaps?

So far, so good, though!

Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on October 09, 2012, 11:02:45 AM
@Kergelen:  whats the problem with the PEG forest scene mmp? is it showing up in god mode?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 09, 2012, 11:32:30 AM
Pretty pictures FTW!  %BUd%

@Kergelen, I received your mail and pictures, as well as from the others and I'll adress particular bugs and remarks via PM shortly.

@epicblunder, a number of  PEG's (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6768.msg215003#msg215003) mmps (http://community.simtropolis.com/topic/50940-what-is-this/#entry1275585) have this issue. It's not because there's an ID conflict, as is suggested on SimTrop but because the FloraPreferences are still present. However the FloraPreferences is only used for tree controllers, since mmps can be plopped manually everywhere.

As for the firs, the main reason they're relative far apart is the models from Girafe in fact consist of multiple trees, which makes for rather large models. What's more, put them close together and trees start to get in each others way, with overlap and cut-off between models and pretty soon things get a little messy. In addition these were some of the earliest brushes I've made and at the time, I was happy to get it working in the first place.  :D
That said, you're not the first to notice the firs look a bit sparse, especially compared to the decideous trees and I will surely adress it in the future.

As for the meadows, I didn't include many yet because of what Swordmaster rightfully noticed. As with everything in Simcity, the moisture level is based on the grid. And since there're only small items in a meadow brush the result, when applied thoroughly, is it fills up every single tile, like so;

(http://imageshack.us/a/img685/530/stc0h.jpg)

This of course goes for every other brush as well but usually it's less noticable as the models are bigger. However, depending on the landscape and thus the height and moisture levels, transitions may still appear a little square from time to time, especially at larger zooms.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on October 09, 2012, 03:14:26 PM
Yes i'm quite familiar with that annoying MMP issue.  I was going to offer my fixed file with the floraprefs zeroed out (if i can find it, have to dig that set out of storage), but it sounds like you've told him the fix.  I think Paeng may have released an updated MMP as part of the last logging pack, but i don't remember for sure.

That's very interesting that the moisture values follow the grid: although i probably should have figured it out that never occurred to me.  That explains why c.p.'s controllers have all those diagonal 'filler' exemplars that are half one type and half another.  And here i thought he was just a glutton for punishment.   ;D  Hmm, i'll have to think about that when i get to making small brushes; that might become a problem.

@gugu3:  nice mountain road.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on October 09, 2012, 03:25:42 PM
I guess this is what Kergelen reported?

(http://imageshack.us/a/img196/7647/unbenanntzck.jpg)

epicblunder: I would appreciate if you could send me a fix for this issue.




I have just started trying out the mod. So far I am very happy. I especially like the transitions between leafy and deciduous forest. It is way better than in any other tree mod I have seen.  :thumbsup:
I'll post some pictures when I have more time.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 09, 2012, 03:34:49 PM
I guess this is what Kergelen reported?
Yep, that's it. And I would appreciate some summer shots as well.


when i get to making small brushes; that might become a problem.

small brushes are a pain anyway  &sly
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on October 09, 2012, 03:51:39 PM
That was the problem. As vortext said, just delete the "kSC4FloraPreferencesProperty" from the 6 exemplars and problem solved. :thumbsup:

RickD: I can send you the file :thumbsup:


Edit: Just a note. My PTM is slightly modified and the height where the snow starts is higher than the default version "Hight Snow". If anyone is interested in the future when the tree-controller will be available, I set the "MaxTerrainHeight" to 3583 (like some terrain mods by CP) so the flora just end right when the snow begins.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on October 09, 2012, 04:34:00 PM
It's such an amazing sight to see all the great seasonal trees plop on my screen in huge swaths, when before I was stuck using the Mayor Mode brushes .

Here are a few pics - I am using CP's Columbus terrain mod with Lowkee's rock textures.
Fall:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/ta2zmg6oezlexbt/vortex%20treecontroler%20test1.jpg)

Summer:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/xvb7cajazl4os8r/vortex%20tree%20test2.jpg)

Closeup of transition areas:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/s/8bp0321cdq2pv4t/vortex%20treecontroler%20test3.jpg)

I noticed that the higher altitude evergreen trees looked a little thin in spots - but you may not be able to do much due to the models you are using.  Otherwise I think it is a great controller.  I especially like the variety of deciduous trees at the lower elevations - you did a good job with the mix.  :thumbsup:

EDIT:   :D  apparently there was a word that the SC4D website didn't like in my summer pic link...  hopefully fixed now.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on October 09, 2012, 05:25:04 PM
Re: logging MMP's, glad that's covered   :thumbsup:

Tested the river controller today, i did find one bug.  At higher elevation an additional deciduous appears above the subalpine firs, and i don't think it's supposed to be there:  click to expand

(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pBp_3p9r5z6S9fd0Oh6MRo4PKY3jgAPnkFUsg7dSXln4T0szm9Js2kug36dlJ6_yVDNBWqnz5Xori51c8Rqz-Ll4xKiMSy9iL/high%20river%20bug.jpg?psid=1)

Yep, that's it. And I would appreciate some summer shots as well.

Okie Dokie.  I'll post a bunch with shrunk sizes to save space.  Click to see fullsize.

River controller, high altitude slopes fall:
(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pSJAdPapdnijpmVMqYjyOURsfmJpk-SpLwnOHx3FTmCeXr9VD8q25m26Iqi_vNNzVW6exEdmHFZ4Cc3TExbjSkbaIt1G0WVTc/high%20slope%20fall.jpg?psid=1)

and again in summer:
(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pKfBnJAJiw1PyQimqfV1KI9U3WxRAPIiKQ3a0PprjRibbph_SoDvvWQdUygFby6GFoSadr-B7BW7btCIl2p1BGCgaSdsltTLi/high%20slope%20summer.jpg?psid=1)

River controller shoreline fall:
(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pqj7dywWvf0xog7mLCDNPxEab5o-ktNaNC6P3U65Yltz1qCh_svHjDpVXQBH3zbX0RJ4kLuHs9df_IOVdfJC98z2dOwO2mQSg/river%20water%20fall.jpg?psid=1)

and again in summer:
(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pqj7dywWvf0x9JTxy231pYZYVMIyfbVEY7zt4XkG54JcT2zMcvOtTmm7TINReEi51FioPQoDzFUD0W0T1qbSF36Xz-l5oSSWn/river%20water%20summer.jpg?psid=1)

Eastern Oregon Canyonlands in fall:
(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pJJpyWSEoL0oL8Mnuxq7b-mure-isiwmLfwWfGkTTjFIUD2NCaZke-8zYvWD9CH5Uhz2kjfIz44KD5Xne4VA23iVsc_2IrcWj/river%20canyonlands%20fall.jpg?psid=1)

and summer:
(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pbDQyCFwky8zWHSNCu7EZzVImyw6_8IY4N_Bfje47Fp5-vQpMgbYFrQNFll0ED-SGFWCsq4EBr9jeBRmnMwc8YxZkJQjXtlF5/river%20canyonlands%20summer.jpg?psid=1)

same spot with the coastal controller in fall:
(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pBp_3p9r5z6RUcW6okA0HHEUHz9EIuj_sno3Ml53uO4ISDKvZMwtEzFVzeY94ER-1i8qyF9xNiiEZd8zA6clAiiQVUIjx68N-/coast%20canyonlands%20fall.jpg?psid=1)

and summer:
(https://2mcenw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pHu_nGgxq_mhP9vH6P1T2RFW_6HeMv00s4wMbnlqTqgqxpzg8ySdhl_K7RUIGwm9wzqeXl0PYTDyaSFEvU-Ju7I_II97qGPdB/coast%20canyonlands%20summer.jpg?psid=1)

I think it's turned out quite nicely.  At first i was a little put off by the open spaces of the river controller, but it does very well for a sparce environment.  I could see it being a montana or eastern rocky mountain terrain very easily.   &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 10, 2012, 03:26:41 PM
@epicblunder, what do you mean 'not supposed to be there', they fit right in!  $%Grinno$%

Thanks for catching that and for the pictures as well. Glad to hear the forests bare some resemblence to reallife areas 'cause frankly I haven't been bothered with trying to recreate any particular landscape.

@Simcoug, the pictures show just fine. I'm pleased you like the variety, as already mentioned I didn't aim for realism and instead tried to cram in as many different models as possible.  ;D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on October 10, 2012, 04:12:51 PM
Many pictures have already been posted and I do not want to overload this thread so I won't post any close ups for now. But I just have to post this one:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img822/5682/unbenanntda.jpg)

Look how awesome the forest looks in region view. It is only one tile now but compare it to the empty ones or the other ones planted with the meadowshire controller. Amazing, isn't it?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 12, 2012, 07:45:25 PM
Thanks Raphael, this one tile looks great already. I'll get back to your PM this weekend.

~

On a different note, the lots I've made for DaveN are available on the LEX! (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2835) Here's a reminder what they look like.

*click pic for full size*
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6669/57134194.jpg)

*click pic for full size*
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7672/28794660.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on October 24, 2012, 03:15:20 PM
So, vortext, I've disregarded your advice to not try to make a tree controller - like just about everything else, I felt I needed one of my own making. But something kept bugging me till the end. Do you or does anyone know why I needed the "Special case only" property? Without it, nothing worked. I looked at CP and found he set it to false for the first flora in the brush, and true for the following. You didn't mention it when you showed your template, so I figured, how do you make it work without it?

Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 24, 2012, 04:26:06 PM
@ Swordmaster / Willy, to be honest, I don't know exactly what that property is for but my best understanding is 'Special case only', 'kSC4FloraFamilyProperty' and 'Flora: Wild' properties have something to do with brushes being able to be used in godmode as well as mayormode,  However, given most of the models I use are already available as mmp I decided early on not to add more clutter to the mayormode menu and stripped all unnecesarry properties. The template I showed works fine for godmode brushes (though I stripped it too radical and since have added 'Pollution radii' back to the exemplars files  ::)).

~

And while here I might as well do a little update. After receiving feedback (thanks again everybody!) I started reworking brushes and controllers but alas, nothing seemed to work and my frustration grew so I decided to take a little brake and fiddled around with textures for the cobble stone mod. Memo's tutorial on wide curve textures proved extremely usefull, though making decent curbstones is a pain, really. However I think it's getting there, slowly but surely.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img407/3617/namjan1011349362373.png)
Sorry for the png . .

In addition I've also made new tramrails.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img707/1668/namjan1011349362423.png)
Ignore the basic SAM curblines and again, excuse me for the png

While I'm pretty happy with the textures the biggest challenge for now is to esthablish a workflow which can withstand me changing my mind, e.g. increase stone size a bit without having to rework all textures manually. Especially because I plan to have an unique texture variation for each network tile. So yeah, it's requiring me to do some serious preplanning before actually doing any texturing, which almost seems easy.  $%Grinno$%

All the while I've also been steadily working on Enseade so I'll leave you with the latest state of affairs. At long last I've achieved somewhat believable clouds (thanks to Ol.S / Benoit) and for the first time tried my hand at rain, a little too much perhaphs?
And yes, it's almost the same area shown as the previous mosaic since I don't want to give away too much, yet.  ;)

*click pic for fullsize*
(http://imageshack.us/a/img560/1026/enseaderain.jpg)
Kinda silly shadows still show, if only I'd known it was going to rain beforehand!  :D

Bye for now.  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on October 24, 2012, 04:37:57 PM
Wow Vortext amazing pictures!I really like your work! &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on October 24, 2012, 04:48:57 PM
Thanks for the quick reply. What happened to me is that, with that property absent, only the last model would plop in god mode. When I added the SpecialCaseOnly, the brush showed all models. The same happens when you remove it from the CP controllers - that's how I figured it out. All this seems to be regardless of whether there's a mayor mode item for the brush.

Beautiful picture, by the way. Not too much rain at all! (Then again, we're used to that over here.)

Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on October 24, 2012, 09:14:41 PM
 :angrymore: Just deleted my mostly written reply. Anyway...  "$Deal"$

FloraFamily from my understanding is similar to prop families. This is part of the bug with City Halls that can cause random trees to appear on the lot. Andreas suggests (in a post I just lost the link to) to delete this property for this reason on new flora.

Flora:Wild simply determines if it can or can't be planted in God Mode. True = plantable, False = not plantable. So if you want something to be part of a controller, set this to True, if you want it to only be plantable in Mayor Mode (or completely unplantable), set it to false or delete the property altogether.

Special Case Only - Basically, set to False means that you can plant this flora, either in God Mode, Mayor Mode, or both, depending on other settings. Set to True means that you can't directly plant this, it can only be accessed through some other tool or occurrence.

Examples of Special Cases:
God Mode tree controller - first flora in a cluster cycle is set to False, you can plant this. Remaining clusters in the cycle are set to True - you can only get these by clicking the brush and letting it cycle to the higher clusters in the cycle. Both Maxis and c.p. used this feature. This also helps keep your menus cleaner, since something set to True won't show up in the Flora menu.

Non-plantable flora - such as flora that could only be called by a lot, or are truly special case, such as burnt trees - these have the value set to True, and you cannot plant these, but they can still show up in the game. Maxis has a few of these, such as the burnt tree and the cactus.

Hope that's useful.  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 25, 2012, 12:01:13 AM
@Gugu3, thank you!

@Willy, you're welcome and I'm all too familiar with rain as well.  &sly

@whatevermind, sure is usefull.  :thumbsup:

FloraFamily from my understanding is similar to prop families. This is part of the bug with City Halls that can cause random trees to appear on the lot. Andreas suggests (in a post I just lost the link to) to delete this property for this reason on new flora.

I gathered it was something like a prop family from the name, however, how does it work? Can one assign a new ID to it, add it to a number of items in different brushes and then simply make a new brush by using to the FloraFamily? That would open up another realm of possibilies but I haven't been able to get it working like I imagine it would.  Any idea if this is even possible and if so, what such an exemplar would look like?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on October 25, 2012, 12:56:43 PM
Thanks whatevermind; very helpful. I've been testing it out, and it seems to work so that you can use different brushes in a city without having to delete trees from the previous - another thing scrapped off my to do list.

Sorry Vortext, I haven't toyed with the Family property, though. And sorry for spamming your thread! (We need something like a general tree controller thread, I think.) Won't do no more  :)

Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on October 25, 2012, 01:12:55 PM
Beautiful pictures  &apls  The rain effect is perfect  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on October 25, 2012, 01:21:20 PM
I like the cobblestone textures - will your mod be part of the SAM or will it replace the maxis street texture? 

I also like the rain mosaic - very realistic looking.  I'm looking forward to your CJ.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on October 28, 2012, 01:55:24 AM
Just to follow up on Flora Families, I did some research on the topic (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15218.msg437297#msg437297) - check out the results.

Also, regarding a thread on tree controllers, there is this one (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4934) which has been dead for four years, but is already a thread dedicated to the topic, not to mention a great resource for anyone starting to work on tree controllers. So, rules against reviving dead threads aside, I think that would be the place to take any new discussions on tree controllers.

OK, done hijacking, gonna go stare at that rainy village picture some more, because, wow.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 28, 2012, 09:25:57 AM
@ Willy, no worries and don't hestitate if you've any other questions. Quick word of warning though, be carefull with removing brushes from the plugins without bulldozing first. While the trees aren't visible anymore, they're in fact still present in the savegame and if you tried to terraform an area where trees once were, the game will CTD for sure.

@Noah, thank you!

@Simcoug, the aim of the Comprehensive Cobble Stone Mod, as it's called officious, is to replace the default GLR, GLR-in-street and GLR-in-avenue with new textures. So the main part of the mod will eventually be a texture override for puzzle pieces and regular avenue, though the streets might end up as a new SAM set given there're some ranges left.

@whatevermind, thanks for the thorough investigation, it never occured to me to try use FloraFamilies on lots. Too bad it doesn't seem to have any use for tree controllers though. And maybe I'll write a step-by-step tutorial for tree controllers once it's released, since the thread you linked to is quite old indeed and doesn't cover all the things that go into making one.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on October 28, 2012, 09:47:04 AM
@ Willy, no worries and don't hestitate if you've any other questions. Quick word of warning though, be carefull with removing brushes from the plugins without bulldozing first. While the trees aren't visible anymore, they're in fact still present in the savegame and if you tried to terraform an area where trees once were, the game will CTD for sure.

Not if you keep the flora exemplars. You just remove them from the God mode brush, but not from the game. So, every different tree controller you make has all of the flora exemplars, but only the relevant ones are enabled with the specialcaseonly property. This seems to work.

Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on October 28, 2012, 09:50:37 AM
[...] keep the flora exemplars.

Guess that's what I was trying to say only more elaborate!  :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on October 30, 2012, 11:59:56 AM
I think this is how c.p. did his tree controllers, because IIRC you can swap them out pretty seamlessly. Except I think he also provided a new set of kSC4FloraPreferences for each exemplar in each of his tree controllers. Combined effect is that each tree controller has all the exemplars for all the flora, but it turns some on/off and places trees in different locations based on the climate each was aimed for.

Which gets me thinking, what if you made a super file with zeroed out Preferences and Special Case = True for every flora exemplar out there (or at least that you expect to use), and just had it overridden by whatever tree controller you're using. Then you'd never have to worry about losing your trees or crashing the game when you change controllers.  &Thk/(
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on November 12, 2012, 04:00:43 PM
Sorry for not getting back here sooner, RL got the best of me last weeks; swamped with work and suffering from a particularly nasty cold. You know the one for which you don't call in sick to work but at the end of the day really wished you did because all you can do is prepare a meal, take a hot shower and go to bed.  &mmm

@whatevermind, that's how CP made his controllers compatible indeed and I guess compiling a super-controller would be an option, though for personal use only.

~

Started working on auxiliaries this weekend; made an outline for the read-me; put together shore controllers; calibrated Flora Patches for CPs terrain mod and lastly made two new brushes for the River controller.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/jp82ulqoljamzod/stc1A.jpg?m)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/s4wniotcmutqns8/stc1B.jpg?m)

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on November 12, 2012, 04:17:39 PM
Looking good!

Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on November 13, 2012, 02:07:27 AM
Looking fantastic! Are all these trees, shrubs, flowers and grasses part of one brush?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on November 13, 2012, 02:34:08 AM
Amazing that those scenes are made just with a brush  :o  Great work again!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on November 13, 2012, 03:18:36 AM
Very nice Vortext!!!!still loving your "test" tree controller we've tried!!!this images looks great!!!!!
well done! &apls
cheers
Gugu3
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on November 13, 2012, 03:20:16 AM
Amazing work on the River Controller. Looking better and better &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Lowkee33 on November 17, 2012, 03:57:22 PM
Looking real good Vortext.  Did I see that some of those controllers are released?  ;D

These last pictures are very impressive indeed.

Also good to see you find time to actually have a city.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on November 17, 2012, 08:02:30 PM
@ Lowkee33, good to see you around again! Controllers were released to a handfull of people for tesing and I'm currently working towards a proper release. The city is progressing at a painstaking slow pace but it'll get there.

@ Willy, Frank, Noah & Kergelen; thanks you all! And to clarify, there're around 3 to 4 brushes involved but it only takes one controller to bind them all.  ;D

@ Gugu3, glad to hear you're enjoying them!  :thumbsup:


~

Speaking of cities, here's another mosiac made around three weeks ago, haven't done much since. .  &mmm
Anyhow, be sure to click pic for full size as it's at zoom five-and-a-half.   ()stsfd()

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/2blnczgyuirogq6/Enseade%40z6.jpg)

This thread is becoming more and more like a MD with each passing update. .   :P

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on November 18, 2012, 04:32:29 AM
I love how you personalized your city!
The streetside texture, the carriages, the rural and calm atmosphere of the town,etc
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on November 18, 2012, 04:39:37 AM
Wow!!!!very good city you have there!!!like all your custom content &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on November 18, 2012, 06:11:01 AM
Quote from: vortext
but it only takes one controller to bind them all.  ;D
Doh!

Nice mosaic! 
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on November 18, 2012, 06:52:10 AM
Wow, fantastic mosaic Erik  &apls &apls

I love how it travels through so many different types of water and terrain. Great variety, the historical elements look great, and of course the flora is perfectly done. More city pictures around here is just fine for me  ;D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on November 18, 2012, 07:26:34 AM
 &apls &apls :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: weixc812 on November 18, 2012, 08:35:16 AM
wow, I love your natural scenes and the long pic  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: nbvc on November 18, 2012, 08:46:11 AM
Fantastic mosaic. &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on November 18, 2012, 11:22:14 AM
Quite something! I do wonder how you're blending plop water with game water, though.

Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on November 18, 2012, 05:01:51 PM
Thanks everybody!!  :thumbsup:

Though be aware all your kind words and compliments make me want to continue working on Enseade. And so I did just that this afternoon - instead of focusing on the controllers. It's your own fault really.  :P

@ Willy, either with locks or bridges, as shown here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13223.msg433008#msg433008).

~

Another little something, part of the commercial business district block. ;) Enjoy!

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/hyv6pbfvttq33vp/Enseade%20CBD.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on November 18, 2012, 06:59:54 PM
Great pic! I love the way the courtyard turned out  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: ivo_su on November 18, 2012, 07:00:19 PM
Bravo vortext, wonder square with beautiful flora around it.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on November 19, 2012, 06:53:47 AM
A mixture of MD like images and modding stuff can definitely be an interesting thread to keep an eye on. Especially when both the images and the modding projects are interesting, and that is certainly the case here. So keep on doing what you like to do and show us when you think we should see it too.

claps!  &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on November 19, 2012, 07:13:00 AM
The new River Controller seems to be a a great improvement over the pre-release one. Adding the grass, shrubs and flowers covers my main complaint about the testing version. It looks fantastic now.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on November 19, 2012, 09:52:35 AM
Amazing pic Vortext!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on December 09, 2012, 03:43:41 PM
@Noah, ivo_su, Gugu3, thanks!

@Frank, always a pleasure when you stop by, thanks for the kind words!

@Raphael, even though with the benefit of hindsight I already knew most of the weak spots, the feedback still proved quite valuable.  :thumbsup:

~

A small update today to let you fine folks know I'm still going at it.

*click pics for full size*

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/g7n5hjpvx1z2w71/stc1D.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/yr01v2zpdmf1qnf/stc1C.jpg)

The oak forest still has the least density, despite mixing in single ash trees. However I like the oaks too much to disband them.


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/j0i5b89yvj4iofg/stc1F.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/zpa5rvy5xaxrkdt/stc20.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/y5azigj0vs3ykid/stc1E.jpg)

After testing EpicBlunder's controller I figured mixing seasonal trees with evergreens actually is a pretty good idea.
 

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/du1wdaqwb5q3vsr/stc21.jpg)

Coast controller with optional meadows, my favourite shot so far.


So yeah, basically I've gone over each and every brush - at least twice by now - to adress density and behaviour. At the moment I'm reworking the Preference tables and I'm pleased to say the end is in sight. About time as well because frankly I'm kinda fed up with it - especially because I've got a number of new and exciting projects lined up. Here're some sneak peeks of what's going on behind the scenes.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/up4kkp6t89klaav/wooden%20deck.jpg)
A collaboration with SimCoug.  $%#Ninj2

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/s8838jv2ku0rpm9/New%20City-Sep.%202%2C%20001353535708.jpg)
Wait, did I started BATting?!  $%Grinno$% So anyone wants to take a guess who created these beauties then?!  ;)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/od7vh1dz8sb4wrp/FFtram.JPG)
The most intricate texture I've made so far. Pretty sure there's some redundancy in there but I'm quite pleased with it. Still a mystery though why the height map doesn't play along nicely with flipped elements.  &Thk/(

Finally two personal notes. First of all; I really like my new CML! Thanks to whoever decided to reward me one and many thanks to the person who designed it as well, it turned out great! Though I'd like to point out my avatar actually depicts Mark Twain helping out in his friend Nicolai Tesla's laboratory, not Albert Einstein.  ;)

Secondly I seem to be plagued with health problems lately. That nasty cold was gone only a few days when suddenly my wrist acted up, which turned out to be RSI. Luckily it's my left wrist and I'm right-handed so I can still get stuff done, albeit at a slower pace (copy / paste anyone?).

That's it for now, stay tuned for more!  &opr

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Indiana Joe on December 09, 2012, 04:25:14 PM
Can't wait to see that flora controller released; and I like the barns.

Hope you feel better too!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on December 09, 2012, 04:34:49 PM
 :o Those trees!!! So beautiful! Glad to see work continues on this, and I can't wait to try it out.

So, Twain and Tesla...that must have been quite the pair!  :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on December 09, 2012, 05:14:55 PM
Perseverance is an art, my friend. And if you're getting tired of it, don't be afraid to ask some folks to help out, or even let it rest for a while. Some time off one particular project will light up your mind (and your wrist).

So far the brushes look good, but as you may understand it's hard to judge that from afar. Only when using it will the true value become clear.

And you collaborating with Simcoug? That should produce some interesting things. . .  I don't think he can BAT, but I may be wrong. The barns remind me a little of DaveN's work?

That tree-ish picture, is that all the layers you've used in that texture? Or what base materials you used to get there? My texture work is limited to going through it pixel by pixel, adding some GIMP effects in the process. But you seem to be a bit of an. . . Einstein in it? :D


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on December 09, 2012, 05:19:20 PM
Amazing Votext!!!love the look of your tree controller!!!!as being one of the tester of your previous attempt I can say this one seems to be exceptional! &apls
well done
cheers
Gugu3
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on December 09, 2012, 05:32:21 PM
After testing EpicBlunder's controller I figured mixing seasonal trees with evergreens actually is a pretty good idea.

 ;D

About time as well because frankly I'm kinda fed up with it - especially because I've got a number of new and exciting projects lined up. Here're some sneak peeks of what's going on behind the scenes.

At this point, i know that feeling well.  Also, i really like the effect of your meadow, and the larches interspaced with the other evergreens.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on December 13, 2012, 05:12:49 PM
@Indiana Joe, thanks - I can't wait for it either!  ;)

@whatevermind, yes indeed, I imagine they must have had quite some interesting conversations. And glad you like it!

@Willy, thanks for the sound advice but it's precisly because of other projects I want to get this over with.  :)

Besides, tweaking brushes really is a matter of personal taste, not something someone else could do for me (and I wouldn't want to burden anyone with it anyway). That said, I might need some help with the Read-Me. As for the tree-ish screengrab, you're looking at the workspace in FilterForge which I use to make textures from scratch with noise & patterns generators and basic shapes. The barns aren't made by DaveN btw, take another guess.  ;)

@Gugu3, thank you, I'm pleased you noticed improvement as well!

@epicblunder, thanks!

~

I've made good progress last couple of days and the Coastal controller is just about ready. There're a few transitions and brushes I'm not quite satisfied with yet but I'll leave those for now and get the River controller back in shape - as I've basically picked it apart.  ::)

*click pics for full size*
Subalpine forest, once again with meadows. Given it all depends on the terrain, it's always surprising to see how the controller is gonna turn out. Rather decent in this particular tile. ()stsfd()
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/b3pms1ulgmz21ig/stc22.jpg?m)

So besides subapline meadows I was wondering if I should incorporate some more - since they'll be optional anyway. After reworking the preferences table I had a few empty slots and it turned out I had some old meadows laying around as well.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/uhf0suen83sk1yy/stc23.jpg)

And there you go, more meadows. In the regular Coast controller these plains are filled with forests - hadn't had time for a side-by-side comparison pic yet.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ipu6n7nar681j0k/stc24.jpg)

Coastal area in summer and autumn.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/n7wlokos2fp8qko/stc25.jpg?m)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/kcjx9e4n4tbwr1z/stc26.jpg?m)

Finally two regional overviews. As said before I'm not happy yet with some of the transitions - especially between the seasonal and evergreen items.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/5kc0ozy7qu0aehl/stc27.jpg?m)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/y0h81v6f4otbtl9/stc28.jpg?m)

That's it for now.  :)

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on December 13, 2012, 05:48:57 PM
I'll comment on the views up close; the other ones are looking great from what I can see.

Pic #2 is quite fantastic, but I'd like to see it in fall. Did you mod the green grass so it turns brown in fall? Or is pic #3 from the same brush? I'm not sure about the grass in that one; I never use that MMP since it's a little too shiny. Certainly in fall. The brown patches are great, though.

But you're right, all of this comes down to personal taste, and I still think your brushes are much better than mine.

Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on December 13, 2012, 06:04:39 PM
Pic #2 is quite fantastic, but I'd like to see it in fall. Did you mod the green grass so it turns brown in fall? Or is pic #3 from the same brush? I'm not sure about the grass in that one; I never use that MMP since it's a little too shiny. Certainly in fall. The brown patches are great, though.

Pic #2 and #3 show the same brushes indeed. I'm not too sure about the 'shiny' grass in fall either. It now serves as a muted verion of the ALN white flowers but maybe I'll have it revert to brown grass instead.
And yes, the green grass turns brown in autumn. I'll release a seasonal 'golden oldies' mmp pack to go along with the tree controllers. Included are ALN gras and the various wildflowers, in addition to PEGs weeds and flowers.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: mattb325 on December 13, 2012, 06:11:00 PM
This really is amazing work that you've done and I hope that it doesn't exhaust you too much  :P, but I know how tedious the reader can be...I actually really like the seasonal transition in the last pictures, even if it is a little harsh between the deciduous and evergreen lines, but there is enough mixing of the two types to be believable.  &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: sunv123 on December 13, 2012, 06:37:40 PM
I think that it looks very nice, the line in the transition isn't that unrealistic, the look of that looks similar to this pic of Mt. Washington in the U.S

(http://www.cityprofile.com/forum/attachments/new-hampshire/2135-gorham-mount-washington.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on December 14, 2012, 01:52:07 AM
Beautiful shots with the tree controller  :o   They're looking almost ready!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Glazert on December 14, 2012, 03:25:39 AM
When I first looked at the two regional overview pictures I thought at first that they were real-world photographs. You shouldn't require any convincing that your work looks realistic.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 24, 2013, 07:29:29 PM
Hi there everybody, hope you all had pleasant holidays!

My year started very relaxed with a nice vacation, which gave me plenty of time for all kinds of simcity related fun stuff. Rather curiously though I spend less time online than I normally do. On second thought that's probably because I was too busy expanding my region!  ()stsfd()

Honestly though, with all this time on my hands I should've updated more frequent because while preparing this post, it turned out I had quite a few things to share so it's gonna be a looong read. Fear not though because there'll be lots of pictures too! And for convenience I decided to break it down in three parts. First are the tree controllers, next I'll be more-or-less bragging a bit and finally show other ongoing projects. Feel free to skip the parts you're not interested in. ;)

~

Allright, tree controllers. While I was putting the River controller back together I kept going round in circles again, up to the point I had enough of it. You see, there're these two moisture levels which when used together will cover anything from 40% up to 80% of the terrain. So one day I might have decided to use those two slots, only to be dissatisfied with it the next day and decide to leave those empty instead. Pretty frustrasting untill I realised I should just make a new controller with only these two spots and get it over with. After all, I already had a decent number of brushes. Of course I ended up using more than just those two spots but anyway, let me introduce you to the latest addition, the Inland Controller.

*click pics for full size*
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/gjzdblqd8tbqiw4/001.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/lco47nopr3khmau/002.jpg)
No fancy shoreline or anything, hence the name.


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/2h6xyu8b1tonsbc/003.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/0d6eo6mkysn6pd4/004.jpg)
As you can see it's rather straightforward, though I'm quite pleased how it turned out. Especially the higher altitude has a nice variety in firs.


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/3qxpyiwi4rnhvi7/007.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/g4ukkdmjmqcqfs5/008.jpg)
And finally the regionview.


Before I forget, thank you Glazert, sunv123 and mattb325 for your kind words and encouragement concerning the transition, really eased my mind this time around!  :thumbsup: And of course thanks Willy & Noah for your comments too! 

Next up is the River controller which in general has the least dense forests, both in terms of the Preference table and the spacing of the trees.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/yoz5vi5vgtqysk6/009.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/t9n7dm9d20mw4f0/010.jpg)


Though if conditions are right forests will appear!

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/dhzw1nvtyo9t85o/011.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/65rm51694ze2hyp/012.jpg)


And thanks to a remark by Willy, the meadows now feature multi seasonal items. That is, some items change in springtime and again in summer, with a static winter/autumn item.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/r0r7bbbjtovq21a/013.jpg)
Early spring.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/f9ryis3pyfb5erq/014.jpg)
Late spring / early summer.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/jqibvgua0v9ch6e/015.jpg)
Late summer.


The carefull observer will notice I still have to tweak CPs bushes a bit. In addition I have to add Girafe's lupines into the alpine meadows, can't leave those out, can I?!  $%Grinno$%
Once that's done it's gonna be about time to wrap things up. I'll send the latest versions to the beta testers probably this weekend, so keep an eye out on your inbox guys. Also, if anyone else is interested in giving it a go, now would be the time to let it know!

~

Part two, then. As said before this will be the part where I'm just gonna show off a bit. Because after a carefull merger of three different plugins folders/lot sets and the respective dependencies (the part were things have gone horribly wrong in the past) I've arrived at a point where I can start to develop rural areas in a somewhat historic fashion, something I only dreamed of when rediscovering the game two years ago. Here're a few examples, straight out of the game, no mmps or anything.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/9cigquc81sf1f75/017.jpg)
Well okay, I did use some eyecandy and the trees were planted long time ago with one of the first iterations of the tree controller.  ;)


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/v3k8bppawqqe2bq/018.jpg)
This then is lots only.


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/4fvw2nw8yer6f6t/019.jpg)
Here's the prove. ;)


The variety of lots hasn't seized to amaze me yet. Then again, there're over 300! Residential predominantly, which goes up to stage 4. Though there's a fair amount of industrials as well since I've lotted all the 'farms' as ID, only the fields are proper IR. Needless to say I'm pretty pleased with all this and and because of that, some more pictures.  :P

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ym9c9zuqorlhdci/020.jpg)
Obviously, I did use mmps in this case.


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/7ddxz2uypibqfqo/021.jpg)
The Four Farmsteads, a small community on its own.


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/d96y9e089co2tqs/023.jpg)
Hm, seems that darn dog from Port Sint Clair is wondering about on my streets!  :D


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/mdmbv1r3in8475i/024.jpg)
Though it kinda works out in this particular situation, wide curves and T-intersections tend to get on my nerves when it comes to zoning & T21s.  &sly


That said, it's kinda amazing and a relieve really, to be able to play like this. Finally things have come together, which at times I wasn't convinced of at all. And for those curious and/or persistently enquiring (you know who you are); yes, I actually do have plans for a MD! Eventually . . , hopefully . , one day, if everything works out well, in the near future. Let's just keep it at sometime later this year, right?! ;D
Because right now I'm developing the country side and have other projects at hand, which brings me to part three.

~

Hi there, welcome to part three, other projects. :D

First of all, Xannepan send me his medieval houses a while ago and they are flat out amazing!

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/a6z4nzabdaf5mb7/025.jpg)


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/98mxtfmymetdj1j/026.jpg)


Plenty of variety, both in color and models so it should make for an excellent lot set when finished. And extremely slope tolerant too because of the custom foundations Alex made.

I've already done a fair amount of work but it requires a different approach than I'm used to, especially with regard to the building desc which leaves me with a nagging question.

Thing is I want to create 2x2 lots with multiple props on them, instead of one building per lot. So I've created desc files based on a small, invisible building which means to filling degree has to be ridiculously high in order to reflect the proper capacity (around 7500 for 250 folks). As far as I can tell, this is the correct way to do it but I'm still a bit anxious about it, especially with regard to the simulation. Does anyone know if a high filling degree has downsides with regard to the simulation? And if so, what is the proper way to it?!

Hope someone has an answer so I can move forward with more confidence. In the meanwhile, I've really taken a fancy to making textures. For one because imho CPs set, while extremely versatile, is too bright and saturated when used with the new HD terrain mods. Moreover I couldn't find any decent textures for Xannepans lots. Yes of course, there're SPAM and BSC textures but still. . . I feel like there's been way too little attention for LE textures.

At the moment I'm busy with a first set, which shouldn't be too hard to complete once I figure out how to automate certain aspects. In any case, Xannepan's lots will most likely feature new textures and the farms will probably have new pastures as well. Here're a few examples, needless to say it's all work in progress.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/bm155v6s1xwbgt7/027.jpg)
Garden textures are the hardest to make by far. The stone path has become quite extensive with two off-set widths and diagonals, too.


(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/g5tx7hn0u8ty9rw/028.jpg)
The basic texture set, anyone spot the outlier?!  ::) I want a number of these (~4) as base textures and use the remaining to create overlays, based on the alphas of the stone path in the previous picture.


A small selection of pastures then.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8f6eirvlht2gp04/029.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/morj7fva1bzttep/030.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/h17yebnwad0gm81/031.jpg)
The tiling is pretty dominant, yes. However, it is on purpose because eventually I'll be making multi-fsh textures, in which case it's actually helpfull if textures have dominant features (look at some of Maxis' multi-fsh textures to see what I mean).


Finally I'm still fooling around with new textures for the GLR. Here's what I've come up with thusfar.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ogrwz0vgi9rtzl1/032.png)
Rural GLR

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/auge5641an1gr6j/033.png)
Urban GLR

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/bi4xsgkvw84fyry/034.png)
GLR in street


And how it pans out in game.
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/426a3gwhuxutzao/035.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/64hil0xmubsfobt/036.jpg)


As for the avenues, I still like the texture I've shown previously (here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13223.msg437005#msg437005)) but needless to say it needs some serious attention to get the GLR part similar to these latest ones. But I'm curious to learn what you think, does this look about right? i.e. can you imagine something like this in your cities (both European and American, even Asian perhaps?).


~

Okay, note to self, update more frequent. Seriously, this took me way too long to compile!  :D In any case, you made it to the end, hope you enjoyed it!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on January 24, 2013, 08:44:16 PM
Interesting. (Bit of an understatement, but I'm a little tired.) Are you using density to control the lots? How about those entrance paths to the lots, are they overhanging props?

For that rural GLR, I would reduce the spacing between ties. At least I think so, as I don't know which look you're going for.


I'll be getting back to this when I've managed to sleep more than two hours ::)


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on January 24, 2013, 09:38:35 PM
Amazing!  Back with a bang - that's the way to go.  Your lots are spectacular and full of neat details - and at over 300 I think you will be ok in the variety department  :P

Regarding the filling degree - I do the same with many of my lots (using a small blank) and what I've found is it's easier to just find some similar Maxis buildings and more or less copy the stats using Reader.  Like you I was nervous using a filling degree so high - in fact, I think I started using the maxis numbers because it seems like some of the PIMX numbers got sorta wonky when using filling degrees in the 1000s.  But that was a while ago, so I may be wrong.

I'm looking forward to your textures and those Xannepan buildings!  Great to see you back.

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on January 24, 2013, 10:03:54 PM
These all look amazing! I'd be happy to try beta testing the tree controllers if you're still looking for more people. The historical city development pictures are incredible. I've always wanted to really bring a region up from medieval/colonial times to modern, but I've never had the patience to actually pull together all the parts and make it happen. Great to see it can be done though, and done well!

As for the GLR, while the textures make beautiful sketches, I'm not as sold on the in-game shots.  I think they could use a little more pop and contrast so they aren't quite as washed out. At least relative to the terrain, they look a little too faint and too blue, particularly at the farther zooms.  On the other hand, they do have an ethereal beauty as they are. I'll also note I rarely use GLR, so I'm maybe not the best critic.  :P
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on January 25, 2013, 02:21:57 AM
Hi Vortex,

Quite impressive, if you allow me to use understatements.  ;)

Also my remark to the filling degrees: I did exactly the same with my farms set. I wanted my main buildigs to be prop families, so I first decided to make the lots with blank models. But like you I did not feel comfortable with these. I found out that there is no growth time for the lots: they just pop up, because growth time of a lot is dependent on the heigth of the model, and that is zero in this case. Also the bulldoze cost and buiding worth are not correct, if I remember this all right. It is some time ago already and I did not keep notes.

What I decided to do in the end is take some less important model like a small shed in the back of the lot and made this the building of the lot. You could even decide to use a tree. Now I compute the number of jobs of my lots the way Jim Myers taught me:
1. Take one job for each lot tile.
2. Make a list of all houses, sheds, silos, barns etc. on the lot.
3. Find out how many jobs all these would give if they were the building of the lot.
4. Add these numbers together. This is the number of jobs this lot represents.

The idea behind this: each tile of farm fields contains one job. Then every shed, house of barn reflects activity and jobs.
In order to be able to do this I made a lot of test lots with the most important sheds and barns I use on my lots. I gave them a proper filling degree, looked up what amount of jobs they gave and put this all into a list. I now use this list for adding the total number of jobs for a certain lot and then I search for the filling degree of the chosen building on that lot.

And all these numbers are just approaches. It's not necessary to have exact numbers. Two jobs more or less, five even: who cares?

Good luck.

Oh, let's not forget to give some feedback on the projects:
Tree controllers are beautiful. I especially like the addition of open field grasses and flowers.
Lots are fantastic, although the mixture of building styles is maybe a bit too diverse.
Textures: stone paths would be great to have. I think the textures look a bit blueish though and hte GLR in street should it not have the cobblestone between the tracks too?

Greetings,
Frank
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: wouanagaine on January 25, 2013, 03:39:53 AM
Quote
Thing is I want to create 2x2 lots with multiple props on them, instead of one building per lot. So I've created desc files based on a small, invisible building which means to filling degree has to be ridiculously high in order to reflect the proper capacity (around 7500 for 250 folks). As far as I can tell, this is the correct way to do it but I'm still a bit anxious about it, especially with regard to the simulation. Does anyone know if a high filling degree has downsides with regard to the simulation? And if so, what is the proper way to it?!
Do not use big fillingdegree ( at max 3 IMO )
You should use a blank model, but this model should have a bouding box that match the size of the building ( in height also ! )

Edit : The best way to do that
create a building desc in PIMX for your blank model
go in reader and change the occupant size to match the real building ( this is really important )
go back in PIMX and do a 'Recompute properties' and change the filling degree according

If you plan to have lots with different number of 'buildings', then you should make a blank model desc for each so the filling degree and the volume can match the visual


Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Glazert on January 25, 2013, 03:40:53 AM
I love the village/farm pictures. They almost look like old pictures.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: sunv123 on January 25, 2013, 06:47:20 AM
Wow! Nice job with these controllers, a pure beauty. &apls The meadow looks great and the river forest looks great as well. :thumbsup:

There is one thing that I dislike about the River controller and that is the lack of trees.... but I guess it's okay.

Any Idea of an upload? Looks fantastic.

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on January 25, 2013, 07:17:24 AM
Quote
Thing is I want to create 2x2 lots with multiple props on them, instead of one building per lot. So I've created desc files based on a small, invisible building which means to filling degree has to be ridiculously high in order to reflect the proper capacity (around 7500 for 250 folks). As far as I can tell, this is the correct way to do it but I'm still a bit anxious about it, especially with regard to the simulation. Does anyone know if a high filling degree has downsides with regard to the simulation? And if so, what is the proper way to it?!
Do not use big fillingdegree ( at max 3 IMO )
You should use a blank model, but this model should have a bouding box that match the size of the building ( in height also ! )

Edit : The best way to do that
create a building desc in PIMX for your blank model
go in reader and change the occupant size to match the real building ( this is really important )
go back in PIMX and do a 'Recompute properties' and change the filling degree according

If you plan to have lots with different number of 'buildings', then you should make a blank model desc for each so the filling degree and the volume can match the visual

Thanks Wouanagaine!
That sounds simple enough.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on January 25, 2013, 11:49:26 AM
I really like how the meadow aspect of the river controller is coming along.   :thumbsup:
Also on trees where you said the two reps of each row that cover 40-80%; i never did test for which rep was for completely flat ground-was it rep 8 or 9 out of the row of 16?  I ask because my next controller is going to be tropic and i'm either going to leave it empty or make it grassy, not sure yet.

I agree on the GLR that the tie spacing forthe first two needs to be much closer together, but i really like the effect of the third one where the rails are set right in the cobbles.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: xannepan on January 25, 2013, 03:15:11 PM
What an amazing amount of work you have done and in store! Looking forward to the tree controller!
And obviously I am happy you are working on lots for my medieval set.

I may turn back to the medieval wall set soon, just because I probably need some time off with effect dir modding (doesn't mean I'll stop though). Anway if I do I' ll let you know by PM and see how we can distribute the work... Altoghh there seems to be plenty of it  ;D

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: woodb3kmaster on January 26, 2013, 05:06:16 AM
Good Lord... Vortext, the work you're doing here is nothing less than epic! I hope I can get the chance to do some testing for some of the mods and lots you're been working on soon; while it's mainly for the benefit of my MD (for which I hope to post another historical update soonish), I hope I can be of use in your work in some way, too.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on January 26, 2013, 11:59:53 AM
Amazing tree controller! The gaps near the shoreline looks nice but IMO on the high attitudes are too much because if someone want sparce vegetation can manually erase it in some parts of the map. But you are the owner and the creator ;D Anyway I think you'll have diferents Tree-controllers so will be a good collection.

About the village is trully impressive. You cath the atmosphere from the old times. The carriages and the dog are T-21 exemplars? &apls

The urban tram in street looks particularly nice but the best for me is the darker grey coblestone texture for the avenue, some pages back.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: nbvc on January 26, 2013, 12:18:56 PM
Nice village and the medieval houses from Xannepan look great. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 26, 2013, 01:23:48 PM
@ Willy, yes, density is used to control the lots though it's primary use is for controlling transit textures. The entrance paths are overhanging props indeed, ID and IR lots are all network enabled though. As for the rural GLR, I'm not sure which look I'm after either. :D When I saw your rail retexturing (how's that going btw?) I wondered if I could make ties from scratch. It took a while but it worked out eventually. Then I did some research into early tramlines and they had ties too so I figured it might be cool to have that for rural GLR. For the next iteration I'll pull the ties closer together, maybe a little darker color too.

@ Simcoug, thank you! And you're right, a high filling degree makes the stats go all weird which is what got me worried. Looks like wouanagaine has provided the answer though so it's full steam ahead.

@ whatevermind, thanks! I've always been dissatisfied you have to start out in modern times too, though now I'm wondering if I'll ever reach modernity.  ::)
Anyway, you're absolutely right the GLR textures are too washed out. Thing is there's a huge color discrepancy between what I see on screen when I make them and how it turns out ingame. And to complicate things more there's also an ingame color discrepancy between transit and lot editor textures. So yeah, initially I have to dial saturation and contrast way up, beyond my comfortzone really and that's proving hard to unlearn.  :D  btw, consider yourself a beta tester!

@ Frank, seems like wouanagaine has provided the solution for both of us! I'm pleased you like the flowers and grasses. As for building variety, it may be a bit eclectic indeed but there're not many BATs that can fit in a European countryside. Basically I just took all the BATs that had the faintest hints of timber and stone.  ;) Also, I was rather pleased with the dark soil inbetween the tracks but on second thought you may be right, the GLR-in-street should be all cobble stone. .  &idea

@ wouanagaine, thank you for the explanation! :thumbsup: One thing though, I could also change the occupant size in PIMX, right?! Saves a trip back-and-forth.

@ Glazert, thanks, glad you like it!

@ sunv123, thank you! As for the lack of trees with the River controller, that's on purpose, obviously. It's also another reason why I made the Inland controller, which covers around 60% with forests. So now there's a choice between 100% cover with the Coast controller and almost none with the River controller. And yes, they will be released, sooner rather than later.  :)

@ epicblunder, thanks, glad you like the meadows! Yes, the two middle reps (8 & 9) are the dominant ones and both show on flat ground, though I always forget which shows the most  ::) (believe it's the most moist, 8 from the right hand side)

@ xannepan, thank you! I believe you're right, there's still a lot to be done (pun intended!  :P). And you have every right to take a break from SC4 given the tremendous work you've done!  :thumbsup:

@ woodb3kmaster, thanks! As I said elsewhere, I'm entertaining the idea to make a 'take-it-or-leave-it-historic-medieval-starter-kit' or something, with both the streets and lots. Though it would require a fair amount of sorting out and cleaning up, especially with regard to dependencies since I've pulled little props from megapacks. So honestly, time will tell if it'll get to that.

@ Kergelen, yeap, if you want sparser vegitation at higher altitude you'll have to bulldoze some flora. Or switch to the River controller halfway as I'm working on inter-usability right now (is that a word?! ;D). Dogs and carriages are done via T21 indeed, glad you like it! I like the dark avenue cobblestones as well so that'll probably remain the same. As I said earlier the urban & street GLR are too bright in comparison.

@ nbvc, thanks! Xannepans houses are awesome indeed, can't wait to start building with them myself!  ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on January 26, 2013, 03:37:15 PM
your berries are just... perfect :O more more bushes and small plants :p
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 26, 2013, 03:42:19 PM
your berries are just... perfect :O more more bushes and small plants :p

I think you meant to post in Girafe's thread.  &Thk/(  ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on January 27, 2013, 04:04:36 AM
your berries are just... perfect :O more more bushes and small plants :p

I think you meant to post in Girafe's thread.  &Thk/(  ;)

oh, ya :o wrong thread, clicked to many times on the "back page" buttom   :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on January 28, 2013, 08:27:25 AM
Hi Vortex,

Building styles in European rural areas seems to be kind of a personal preoccupation. So I had to react in some way. Indeed it's not easy to find some, so of course it's ok if you take another choice.
I would have been really upset if you had taken all Haarlemmergold's, Tag_one's, Vanderaaps and others's Dutch farm houses.... You would have mown the grass away in front of my feet.... As a Dutchman you understand my stonecole English (this is sounding like the poems of John o' Mill).  :D

Succes!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Mr.Lin on January 28, 2013, 08:58:49 AM
Wow! Vortex,your seasonal works is amazing!  I want to try some seasonal plants in my city, but I do not know how to plant different types of trees in the right position on the mountain, can you tell me?
(Well, I am so sorry, I use the Google translator because of my bad English level, so, I hope you can understand what I mean.)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on January 28, 2013, 02:11:53 PM
Good God what've you done here  :D   It's just one big ball of fantastic!  I've had this update open in my browser since you posted but haven't had time to give it the thorough read and feedback that it deserved until now.

The tree controller work is really looking great. The newer options particularly shine from a distance and it's very nice to have these different options. And seasonal meadows now too!

On to part 2: I know who I am  :D  Glad to hear an MD's likely in the works for this year! What you've accomplished here is just great. All the work that went into the modding and lotting really shows. Congratulations!

Finally, I'll be following your work with Xannepan's medieval stuff closely. The lotting sounds exciting (not the process but your result  $%Grinno$% ) and he's obviously done some great work with the models. And they're slope-tolerant nonetheless! Good stuff on the way here too I'm sure.

Keep up the fantastic work Erik  &apls &apls &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: wouanagaine on January 29, 2013, 06:18:31 AM
@ wouanagaine, thank you for the explanation! :thumbsup: One thing though, I could also change the occupant size in PIMX, right?! Saves a trip back-and-forth.
Yes, I forgot you can edit that in PIMX :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 29, 2013, 06:47:13 PM
@ Frank, thanks for the John O'Mill reference, I hadn't heard of him but it sure is funny to read his work! Also, shouldn't it be charcoil English?!   ;)

@ Mr. Lin, Thanks! And I assume you want to make your own seasonal tree controller? If so, the placement is determined via the kSC4FloraPreferencesProperty property. I've explained it in more detail in this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13223.msg429269#msg429269). Also this  (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4934.0)and this  (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=12294.msg374067#msg374067) contains valuable information regarding placement and tree controllers in general. Hope this helps, otherwise feel free to ask here or via PM. :)

@ Noah, one big ball eh?! And here I'd thought to present it conveniently arranged.  ::) :P Ah well, thanks for your kind words anyway! ()stsfd() Also, when done in small steps at a time I find lotting actually quite enjoyable, it's kinda like a jigsaw puzzle.   :D

@ wouanagaine, cool, thanks!

~

A few moments ago I send out the latest files to the beta testers. Also I forgot to show you the regionview for the River controller.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/tb0wqzhh15qbax1/037.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/pshpsdsqqbs8cyt/038.jpg)


Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Girafe on January 29, 2013, 06:57:43 PM
Looks so promising  ::)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: sunv123 on January 29, 2013, 08:34:30 PM
Beta testers, huh? ;)

Seems like I can't find it.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on January 30, 2013, 01:45:53 AM
Excellent pictures  &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: mave94 on January 30, 2013, 10:12:22 AM
Looks great there! I am already looking forward to using these controllers. ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Indiana Joe on January 30, 2013, 02:57:26 PM
Beta testers?  Aw, I'm really sad I missed that memo.  The controller looks amazing.  (If it were me, I'd blend the deciduous and coniferous even forests more smoothly.  That's probably just because I live in an area with mixed forest though.)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on January 30, 2013, 06:11:02 PM
(If it were me, I'd blend the deciduous and coniferous even forests more smoothly.  That's probably just because I live in an area with mixed forest though.)

When programming tree controllers, something either IS or it IS NOT, there isn't some magical slider of how much of this you want with a side of that.  Vortext has done the best he can to reach the effect he wants within the various limitations and considerations, and it's a bang-up job.   :thumbsup:

Hopefully i can bust out some pics tonight.  No promises yet, though, sorry.
edit: pics.  i shrunk again to not overwhelm the thread, please clicky for full.
01: at the whatevermind school of flora-ing.   :P 
(https://u5tvza.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1puLiHQjB3FcpXk0WnUIOGZsUUpJC-Jg9F3DaII8Daodyu6-n6PQyN6TlzkP0iSPu42ZscSCY8xKD59rpU3Zm_y84FP0bjyuSM/00%20whatevermind%20floraing.jpg?psid=1)

02: Coast extended, Teton Mountains, Gobias' terrain, summer:
(https://u5tvza.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pMSrfduA2Owa6bUOwROVuE0hwBCzsj6GJbr8YJfULf82aq7iNs8i4ofAWg1Gd7CkI_7yDl_eMZUy6Qn4sz3s29rK8h34jpL-C/01%20tetons.jpg?psid=1)

03.  Hi-altitude transition zone.  I love, love, love this effect.
(https://u5tvza.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pMSrfduA2OwY82pAP6fKWOFEenQnT9XMrAtrt7S5ziCVPWU6I7VWnpggXIkDNmxP6KNwFFQ8oCuFLM9kfkucPYKgoH8wMbtjs/02%20transition%20zone.jpg?psid=1)

04.  It looks good in summer too.
(https://u5tvza.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pDngkDxJXNclWoRW-t8mmku_rccCeE6vzZXncckt6MGiA2jiFrx1F37i_TXW67uYopt_PdZC_T1R4n_bVZlOtoh-3SqPKIK27/03%20transition2.jpg?psid=1)

05.  Lower down, one of the meadows.  I really like the effect of these too.
(https://u5tvza.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pbNudLw-B1X3Bx5TinbqUqnZru6DQ-UDcqDQdHjB1O9-PauhBYyUcQQ5y3bprCHQH-6oBTvdWP6-DF_305nhsvG6bCuwDWBfX/04%20meadow.jpg?psid=1)

06.  River controller in fall.  Not so sure about yellow leaves on bright green grass.
(https://u5tvza.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pbNudLw-B1X3g4HihKSlSR_ZbIYF-C9kdPmJ_2L_3px6njw8P80eqeTJMM9fdkFaGR5xoStx_wekvayX8tDInI_vPE6cRV5zJ/05%20riverfall.jpg?psid=1)

07.  Same, summer.
(https://u5tvza.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pK09GmgqOac1k1BRBN1tjvLqFG3nXhNrIKZs91FChHeEmm9U8JUtGIAThD7jH0xBg_GohhanW3u2_hJfi47Aa3jkH7BLbzcg9/06%20summer.jpg?psid=1)

08.  The inland praire in summer.  I really like this effect too.
(https://u5tvza.bn1.livefilestore.com/y1pFwtNbDBHHrrHT5nyqbM051r2-TGVUzpBjwSJUkPTalsHGm-50MBoTdywdh_pmhlfDYxw5ZlLInuS7rLiy7-GcNcTHDs6zsFr/07%20meadow.jpg?psid=1)

Overall everything seems to be working great.  Performance was a huge issue for me on my sluggish pc trying to tree a whole large tile with the coastal controller but i don't see a way around that.  Overall its a really, really great looking effect.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on January 31, 2013, 02:08:34 PM
@ Girafe, thanks! It wouldn't have looked half as good without your flora!!  &apls ps: you've got mail

@ sunv123, since the controllers still lack a read-me and have some dependency issues to take care off, it's not ready for proper scrutinizing yet. Or did I overlooked you also wanted in?!  %confuso

@ Noah, thanks!

@ mave94, thank you!

@ Indiana Joe, you'll find there're seasonal firs in the transitions zones. Check your mail!  ;)

@ epicblunder, a magical slider, now that would be something! Thanks for the pics, too. I had some doubts about SFBT birches as well but in the end decided they complement the VIP poplars well during summer, too well to leave out. And your flora setup is eerily similar to mine!  :D

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on February 02, 2013, 04:06:18 AM
After testing the three controllers with the diferent options I must said it's amazing! &apls &apls
I love variety of flora and the transitions between them.
I specially love the High-attitude coastal mod where the is a wonderful combination of meadows and forest, and between seasonal and non-seasonal flora.
With the premise that the controllers are amazing I think a couple of things coul be improved: the distribution of Cattails and Parasol Pines along the altitude.


Coastal mod High attitude
(http://imageshack.us/a/img534/5480/vortextclluny.jpg)

This picture is closest to MMP work than a Tree-controller. &apls
(http://imageshack.us/a/img845/5265/vortextcaprop.jpg)

Coastal mod Low attitude
(http://imageshack.us/a/img59/5622/vortexttcprimeveragener.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img248/6163/vortexttctardorgeneral.jpg)

I love this effect. I only found one defect in the coastal controller:  in this picture the cattails are on top of this mountain and IMO it's not very realistic, as cattalis grow near wetlands that are usually in valleys and not in the high part of the mountains.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img28/892/coastalcattalils.jpg)

River controller Low attitude
I really like the poplars near the river and all the varied flora. Anyway, maybe could be nice that the flora be closest to the water.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img834/5467/rivercontrollerclose.jpg)

I think River controller is good for peoople who urbanize in flat terrains because the controller don't plant trees in this areas
(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/2802/riverprimavera.jpg)

River controller High attitude
(http://imageshack.us/a/img51/2919/riverparasol2.jpg)

Here we see Parasol Pines near the snow. Parasol Pines usually grow from 0 to 1000 meters, and in this case are up to 2000 m.
Also Parasol Pines are toghether with firs with I think is not realistic. Parasol Pines are mostly a shoreline species, at least in the Mediterranean climates &Thk/(
(http://imageshack.us/a/img607/5/riverparasolpines.jpg)



vortext, I think the controllers are almost perfect to be released , and the only two "problems" that I have found are the result of coherence that I personally want to achieve as a biologist in terms of flora.
In the future I will try to work a little with your Coastal controller to achive a Mediterranean feeling in the coast (from 0 to 400meters, leaving your original controllers form 400 till....) ( mainly with Parasol Pines and diferent kind of oaks). I think if the base is made by you, I'll only need to change the RKT1 and RKT4 right?. Well, if I need some advice I'll send you a PM :)

PD: You misundersand me on my previous post ( or I explained badly, probably), but I don't want sparce flora. I love a lot of flora! :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 02, 2013, 04:15:03 AM
Kergelen, thanks so much for a thorough testing. And it looks great with the Pyrrean mod too. :thumbsup:

It appears you have stumbled upon two mishaps. The cattails aren't meant to appear at the mountaintop indeed! Couple of options as to why that happened, shouldn't be too hard to track down.

As for the Parasol Pines, that's just plain weird! Like really, really strange. I did NOT use parasol pines (they're not listed as dependencies) so there appears to be somekind of ID conflict!?!  &Thk/( I will start to investigate.

EDIT: Kergelen, are you sure the parasol pines aren't a remnant of your own tinkering?! ATM I'm unable to reproduce it, let alone solve it. Could you otherwise perhaps send me a screengrab of your plugins content and loading order via PM? Thanks.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on February 02, 2013, 05:21:02 AM
Haven't taken pictures yet...nice tree controller...just one question...at higher altitudes in my map i'm getting a lot of PEG pines...is it supposed to happen???
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on February 02, 2013, 05:22:03 AM
Well, one of the problems is I had a Parasol pine Brush made by me, so here was one conflict. :P

I removed the Brush an Parasol Pines, but now I have another problem. A conflict with this MMP (http://www.simpeg.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=399) modified by removing the "KSC4 Fora Preference property" like you said in this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13223.msg435827#msg435827). Now the PEG MMP appear where before appeared Parasol Pines.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img856/8423/nuevaciudad3abr00135980.jpg)

If I remove the PEG file, all is ok, and there is a gap (no flora) where PEG MMP appeared.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img443/5920/merkine0005.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 02, 2013, 05:26:34 AM
Well, one of the problems is I had a Parasol pine Brush made by me, so here was one conflict. :P

Yeah I figured something like that because I couldn't reproduce it!  ;D

just one question...at higher altitudes in my map i'm getting a lot of PEG pines...is it supposed to happen???

NO!   %bur2$ 

Really annoying those PEG mmps, especially because I thought I had blocked everything. What happens if you load the tree controller last, i.e. create a 'zz_tree controller' map in the plugins root.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on February 02, 2013, 05:44:24 AM
I loaded the Controller last and the problem persists. See pictures in the previous post.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 02, 2013, 05:48:01 AM
Meh.  %wrd

Guess it's best to adress it in the read-me. As in, 'this is a known issue with PEG mmps and therefor, it should be absent from the plugins while using the tree controllers' or words to that effect.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on February 02, 2013, 05:58:47 AM
Is that because PEG didn't set SpecialCase=True ?  So one could technically mod his files properly?


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 02, 2013, 06:05:47 AM
It appears so. At first I thought it was because the FloraPreferences still hold values, which is unnecessary for mmps, thus appearing in slots the controller leaves open. However I included an item which ought to block all slots without proper flora items. Honestly, I'm a bit baffled it still persists even when the controller loads last. And yes, one could very well mod PEGs mmps to behave properly, see the link in Kergelens post (though again, this entails deleting/nulling the FloraPreferences).
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on February 02, 2013, 06:16:42 AM
It appear so. At first I thought it was because the FloraPreferences still hold values, which is unnecessary for mmps, thus appearing in slots the controller leaves open. However I included an item which ought to block all slots without proper flora items. Honestly, I'm a bit baffled it still persists even when the controller loads last. And yes, one could very well mod PEGs mmps to behave properly, see the link in Kergelens post (though again, this entails deleting/nulling the FloraPreferences).

It doesn't matter what loads last; there are no IIDs that overwrite each other. SpecialCase=False means it can be used by the God mode tree tool in certain circumstances depending on the parameters. I've found out in all my tweaking that these settings aren't exclusive and if multiple flora items fit in one place, the game will pick one randomly.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 02, 2013, 06:26:11 AM
It's not random. Otherwise there would be a 50/50 chance PEGs mmps interfere.

Also, in my tinkering I found the loading order does matter with regard to the FloraPreferences, if 'SpecialCase' is left out of the equation. If two items occupy the same slot and have the same value, the one that loads last will appear - the FloraPreferences overwrite in this case, regardless of IID.

In any case. If I would add 'Special case=False' to the item that is supposed to block, or maybe to all items, it will override PEGs mmps? Yes, no, maybe?! Of to do some more tinkering!   ::)

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on February 02, 2013, 06:50:27 AM
No, 50/50 means regular. Random means irregular. In this case, it's random depending on how the game behaves. Like the alt-tab/reload problem reported by sunv123 recently. I've had this all the time, with flora items appearing in one session, not appearing at all in the next. This is definitely not determined by loading order or the flora preferences settings. I somehow expect this is what Kergelen is experiencing.

I found the only fix for me was to have only my tree controller items have the SpecialCase=False, everything else True. I don't know what settings you have in your controller. Do you block maxis trees by overwriting their preferences or by setting them SpecialCase=True?


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 02, 2013, 06:59:43 AM
We mean the same thing with random.  ;)

It's rather curious though, I have never ever had flora not appearing in one session for no good reason. If Kergelen is still around I wonder if he had this happening as well?

Maxis trees are blocked with Preferences, which works like a charm. However, I have not included the 'special case' property to any of the items, which I now suspect is the cullprit.  &Thk/(
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 02, 2013, 07:29:06 AM
Double post because, well, erm, turns out I accidently left out the multi-purpose blocker from the River controllers alltogether. . whoops. . no wonder PEG mmps showed, hehe.  ::)

Now compiling new verions and while at it adressing the cattails problems Kergelen came across as well.

With the multipurpose blocker, PEGs mmps really ought to be a thing of the past by simply blocking FloraPreferences. At least it works for me.

So note for betatesters, do not continue with the current controllers. I'll send out a notification when new verions are ready for download.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on February 02, 2013, 07:50:11 AM
Double post because, well, erm, turns out I accidently left out the multi-purpose blocker from the River controllers alltogether. . whoops. . no wonder PEG mmps showed, hehe.  ::)

Now compiling new verions and while at it adressing the cattails problems Kergelen came across as well.

With the multipurpose blocker, PEGs mmps really ought to be a thing of the past by simply blocking FloraPreferences. At least it works for me.

So note for betatesters, do not continue with the current controllers. I'll send out a notification when new verions are ready for download.

check

I guess I havent get them yet because I am using for now in lower altitudes  &Thk/(
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 02, 2013, 08:01:51 AM
Or depending on which controller you currently use. The coast controller has no issues since the entere preference table is occupied.

In any case, I came across more inconsistencies. . darn zeros and ones are dancing before my eyes.  &sly I have to go now so it'll be most likely somewehere toninght new versions are up.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Mr.Lin on February 02, 2013, 08:11:31 AM
There are some things I need to learn, thank you, vortext, my friend !
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Indiana Joe on February 02, 2013, 12:51:47 PM
Been trying it out, and all I can say is that it's even more awesome than it looks in the pictures in this thread.  Which is saying a lot.

Hands down, this will be the most realistic terrain-related plugin ever created.  Bravo, vortext.  Bravo.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: speed285 on February 02, 2013, 01:07:16 PM
I do not usually write much in the forum, it may be because of my shyness, for my bad English or both. I still eagerly this post and I can not imagine the day when this mod is released.

Great job!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 02, 2013, 02:51:38 PM
@ Mr.Lin, it can be quite daunting at the beginning for sure but once you get the hang of it, you'll find it's more about repetition than anything else really. Also, if you start to develop your own controller and/or mmps, even if it's for personal use only, don't forget to request a ID range over here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=185.msg446509#msg446509). Otherwise you might encounter conflicts with other mmps.

@ Indiana Joe, even better than advertised eh?! Now that's something you don't see everyday!  :D Glad you like it! I assume you had nothing weird happen, yet?  *knocks on wood*

@ speed285, thanks, it will be sooner rather than later. And you should stop by more often, not only here but in general because there's nothing wrong with your English!  :thumbsup:

~

Allright, I've ironed out minor bugs and most notably, PEGs mmps shouldn't be a problem any longer. The latest version has just been send out and I'm curious to learn if it, indeed, has been nipped in the but. Fingers crossed . .  ::)

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on February 03, 2013, 03:10:06 AM
Tested. All is ok. :party:  No more PEG MMP conflicts.

I also tested all the controllers in the same city tile, saving every time before changing the controllers. No CTD :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on February 03, 2013, 04:16:48 AM
I'm having a problem...but don't know why...it loads the city tile without any problem...then after a while of god mod tree planting it crashes to desktop :( no problems with the previous version....any idea??
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 03, 2013, 10:51:54 AM
@ Kergelen, finally!

@ Gugu3, did you get a ctd while using just one controller or multiple?! And in case of the latter, which combination of controllers did you use?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: sunv123 on February 03, 2013, 11:46:48 AM
Or it could be a problem with your PC. If the game or the PC can't handle the pressure of the trees, it will CTD. Or it could be like vortext said, if you have two controllers, then it will CTD due to the fact that SC4 can only run with one tree controller. You can go into a city tile without problems, but it only happens when you use the controller.

I have a pretty messy plugin's folder, so if I tested it, eh, unexpected problems may pop up. :D Is there any problems with this and the SFBT Tree replacement Mod? $%Grinno$%



Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Indiana Joe on February 03, 2013, 12:59:50 PM
I can't get the v2.1 download to work, it says there's an error with dropbox...

Nevermind, I got it downloaded.  I guess it was just a hiccup in the system.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on February 03, 2013, 04:07:49 PM
I have just 1 tree controller installed...so do i have to suppose it's my pc which isn't able to handle the tree controller?? &mmm
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on February 03, 2013, 10:55:51 PM
I still haven't had the chance to fire this up in game and test it, real life was a bit busier this weekend than I expected.   ::)

However, I've been through the dependencies and poked around the files in Reader a bit, and I've found a few things worth mentioning:

Moving on to the mod itself:

That's it for now, hopefully I'll get a chance to look at in-game before too long.  ::)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Andreas on February 04, 2013, 04:13:14 AM
As for the SFBT-related questions, it's not that the SFBT Birches would require the SFBT Essentials as a dependency, but it's rather the other way round: The SFBT Essentials download includes the birches. The props are included in a file called "SFBT_ArkenbergeJoe_Baeume.dat", which can be found in the folder "\Plugins\SFBT\SFBT_Props" by default.

The SFBT Essentials do not install the SFBT Street Tree Mod. They just install the tree prop families that are also included in the Street Tree Mod, but for convenience (the prop families are used on several other SFBT lots as well), we included them into the Essentials.

Maybe I should explain what those tree prop families actually do: I made those when creating the SFBT Street Tree Mod, and as vortext mentioned in this thread a while ago, creating T21 Exemplar files for this mod can be rather tedious, since you need so many for a nice-looking tree-lined street. So I thought using prop families would help quite a bit for getting more variety.

The good thing about prop families is that you don't pick individual props in the Lot Editor, but a set of predefined props that is controlled via the prop family ID. Since I wanted even more variety (some users like the Maxis trees, others like cycledogg's trees etc.). So I created several DATs that contain a set of trees, and assigned the same prop family to them.

The user can pick one or more of those DATs (included in both the SFBT Street Tree Mod and the SFBT Essentials) in order to get the desired trees. If you want to use a different set of trees, just pick another tree prop family DAT, and get other trees along your streets and on the lots where the family has been used, without the need to edit the T21's or the lots (just re-dragging or re-plopping of the items is required).
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 04, 2013, 07:23:11 AM
@ Gugu3, was this with a clean plugins folder, i.e. nothing else besides dependencies? It's rather curious you didn't had CTDs with the previous version, though I did remove some properties which I thought could be removed safely so maybe that's it. Let me know which controller did you used, so I can compile another version for you to try out.

@ whatevermind, thanks for the thorough scrutenering! Lets go over some of the points.

  • Several of the dependencies have bugs themselves, mostly harmless ones, but I might put together a LEX bug report anyway. Two of them install a version of Lowkee's seasonal trees mod. The two CP MEGA packs contain different versions of the same file. Two more install readme's into the Plugins folder. One of them installs two readme's, one of which has it's own bug.  &sly

Well, there's little I can do about bugs in the dependencies themselves or duplicate files. However, those two which install Lowkee's seasonal patches worry me a bit because they can interfere with the treeline. Do you still know which dependencies it were? In any case, I'll put a heads-up in the readme.

  • On that note, is Lowkee's seasonal tree mod required for the tree controllers? It's not listed as a dependency itself, but as far as I know, only Lowkee and Gobias have actually included it in terrain mods - otherwise you would need to get the standalone copies of the mod to see seasonal behavior, right?

Yes, good you bring this up. Indeed, Lowkee's seasonal patches are needed for CPs terrain mods. However, the current patches don't have the proper altitude so the firs will end up way above the snowline. I've already contacted Lowkee twice about this and asked him if he could update the files. In fact, I've already prepared updated files, they only need to be uploaded to the LEX. Maybe another LEX administrator could do this as well?!

  • The SFBT Birches lists SFBT Essentials as a dependency. I don't know if this remains a dependency in your tree controller. If you do still need it for the Birches, you might want to add it to the dependency list so people don't miss it. If it's not needed, that's probably worth mentioning too, in case there's anyone out there who doesn't already have it.  :P

Dependencies to dependencies are not needed. I've listed all the actual files needed in the Read-Me (see below)

  • File 0x6534284a,0xe83e0437,0xeeee004f does not have an entry in the Exemplar Name property in the Coast and River controllers. Is this a problem? In the STC Inland it is called “Sycamore”.

Hm, I'll look into this.

  • The last issue I've found is that all of the controllers, shore and otherwise, contain a flora brush. Now, this isn't itself a problem, but it could be a conflict with some of c.p.'s terrain mods that have flora brushes, as well as my own flora brush mod. In the case of c.p.'s mods, whichever brush loads last will simply control. In the case of my mod, these brushes should be overwritten by it due to load order, but if they aren't, you'd still get the texture and LTEXT associated with my mod, but not the brush exemplar itself.

Good point, I'll leave the flora brush out of the controllers and maybe provide it as a stand alone file.

@ Andreas, the controllers don't need the essential files, only the proper birches (i.e. SFBT_Birken_Jahreszeit.dat). However, there's a minor issue with the SFBT tree replacement mod (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1901) with regard to tree controllers (as uncovered here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15380.msg447422#msg447422)). Since they include a copy of Maxis' Godmode flora players will get Maxis and/or CPs trees in godmode. This is easily solved though when the controllers load last so they override those files.

~

I've started work on the read-me, most importantly the dependencies list. A first draft is available over here (https://dl.dropbox.com/s/qjvgmz14tji4ea1/DEPS.pdf). I'd appreciate it if you folks can tell me if this is clear enough and if all the links work.



Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: wouanagaine on February 04, 2013, 08:18:48 AM
I've started work on the read-me, most importantly the dependencies list. A first draft is available over here (https://dl.dropbox.com/s/qjvgmz14tji4ea1/DEPS.pdf). I'd appreciate it if you folks can tell me if this is clear enough and if all the links work.
Do you plan to provide a cleanitol file ?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: sunv123 on February 04, 2013, 03:45:18 PM
Looks, great, vortext. Maybe an option of links and direct downloads would be better for some. Anyways, seems good for me..
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on February 04, 2013, 04:37:20 PM
That dependency list is well laid out - better than most.  For experienced players it should not be a problem to assemble (most of these are already in many plugin folders) - I mostly fear for the beginner who finds a seasonal tree controller for the first time and doesn't take time to understand the readme.  But, there's really nothing you can do about that (as I, and most content up-loaders have probably learned).
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on February 04, 2013, 10:47:14 PM
@Andreas: I understand now, sorry for the confusion. However, I would like to point out that both the LEX description and the Readme for the SFBT Seasonal Birches (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=752) list SFBT Essentials as a dependency:

Quote
To ensure the proper functionality, make sure the files mentioned above are installed in the plugins folder. In addition, you need the following files from Simtropolis Exchange or SC4Devotion:

SFBT_Birken_Jahreszeit.dat (included)
SFBT Essentials

@vortext: Let's see, the dependencies that install Lowkee's mod are girafe's Abies Grandis and his Serbian Spruces.

I gave the dependencies list a look over, and it looks pretty good. I really like the idea of specifying exactly which files are required from each of those downloads, especially since some of them contain a lot of other files. You might want to note that the direct download links require you to be logged in, or you'll get an error message. However the standard links work fine of course.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on February 05, 2013, 04:28:33 AM
Thanks Vrtext!I'm using the coastal tree controller extended...i was testing it with my usual plugins folder....but had no problems with the previous version...don't know actually....
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 05, 2013, 10:59:16 AM
@ wouanagaine, I've stopped using Cleanitol myself for a long time so I hadn't thought about nor planned for it. In any case, this would just be a .txt file which lists all the files, right?

@ sunv123, hm I've given both indirect and direct download links so I don't quite understand what you mean.  &mmm

@ Simcoug, thanks! I'm not particular looking forward to folks rushing over to complain about brown boxes and what not but it's probably inevitable indeed.

@ whatevermind, thanks, I'll put in a word of warning for those two dependencies. Personally I always greatly appreciate it whenever downloads specify which files exactly are needed, so it made sense to do it myself as well.  :)

@ Gugu3, check your mail.  :)

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on February 05, 2013, 11:49:03 AM
I'm not particular looking forward to folks rushing over to complain about brown boxes and what not but it's probably inevitable indeed.

Yes.  Yes it is. (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/28296-pacific-northwest-tree-controller/)   :bomb: (scroll to comments)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: wouanagaine on February 05, 2013, 03:50:42 PM
@ wouanagaine, I've stopped using Cleanitol myself for a long time so I hadn't thought about nor planned for it. In any case, this would just be a .txt file which lists all the files, right?
it is a little more than a file lists
you can define
 files to be moved out of plugins folder ( for conflicting files or outdated files )
 files to be needed with the url to where to get them so the user just have to click on the link in cleanitol to get his webbrowser open on that url ( for dependencies )
you can even define 2 cleanitol files, when to be used before installing (removing files), and one to be use after installation (dependencies check)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Andreas on February 05, 2013, 04:08:53 PM
@Andreas: I understand now, sorry for the confusion. However, I would like to point out that both the LEX description and the Readme for the SFBT Seasonal Birches (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=752) list SFBT Essentials as a dependency:

Quote
To ensure the proper functionality, make sure the files mentioned above are installed in the plugins folder. In addition, you need the following files from Simtropolis Exchange or SC4Devotion:

SFBT_Birken_Jahreszeit.dat (included)
SFBT Essentials

Well, this is due to the fact that the summer models of the birch trees are contained in ArkenbergeJoe's prop pack, which is part of the SFBT Essentials. Other than the BSC, which offers a wide variety of prop and texture packs, the SFBT decided to package often-used props and textures into the SFBT Essentials download, since those are, well, essential to many SFBT creations. Therefore, the SFBT Essentials have been updated a couple of times, but we thought would be a lot less work than keeping track of numerous individual dependencies. Also, the whole content of the SFBT Essentials download is not that large, so it's not really necessary to remove those files that you don't need.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on February 06, 2013, 02:05:04 PM
well, I have some pictures to share and some lights to give  %confuso

First the "River Extended":

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/gn_leugim/STCRiverExtended_zpsb0638e77.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/gn_leugim/STCRiverExtended-2_zps88540ba5.jpg)

Now, the same spots with the "Inland"

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/gn_leugim/STCInland_zps39771049.png)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/gn_leugim/STCInland-2_zpsf642ec67.jpg)

Now the "Coast Extended"

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/gn_leugim/STCCoastExtended_zpsfa075520.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/gn_leugim/STCCoastExtended-2_zpseeb68e12.jpg)

I posted the same spots with different controlers so people can see differents between them ;)

Now, about the SFBT birches, I was missing those, and so first I was getting some "brown boxes". More, I was getting some maxis items instead in some seasons as ou can see in the following image.

I don't know if this is in somehow harmful or not, but I leave it anyway.

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/gn_leugim/STCRiverExtended-b2_zps649ca967.jpg)

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/gn_leugim/STCRiverExtended-b1_zpsd24520cb.jpg)

And finally, I found one more MMP that can be troublesome, its the Jeronij's Maxis MMP trees ;)

(I'll be taking more pics and testing further next days)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 06, 2013, 02:50:34 PM
@ epicblunder hehe. Ah well, it's all for the best!

@ wouanagaine, allright, I'll look into it.

@ Andreas, actually SFBT_Birken_Jahreszeit contains summer birches as well, slighty brighter in color than those in the Essentials. Isn't the reason the Essentials are listed as dependency because of the query files for the forest lots?

@ gn_leugim, thanks for the comparison pics! A little strange a Maxis prop appears in place of the SFBT birch. I'm inclined to say it's not harmfull, it simply means they share the same TGI adress. Though I'm curious to learn if this was already known (i.e. wether there've been occurrences of SFBT birches showing up where the fountain prop ought to be).
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on February 06, 2013, 03:52:38 PM
I'm getting a consistent crash when placing trees next to the edge of a tile. I've got large tiles and when I cross the east/west boundary I get a CTD. Very easily repeatable. The north/south boundaries have been fine so far.  It occurs when I have the centre of the brush close to the tile edge.  I took out the brush mod to see if that was the problem but it seems not. It's happening on all 6 zooms and it doesn't matter if there is a neighbouring tile or not.


To test this wasn't my install I restored my normal full plugins and had no problems using the old CP controller I had in there.


I only had your controllers (1 tree (I tried Coast and River extended) plus the shore river controller) and the associated dependencies in my plugins, plus the Columbus terrain mod and the patch for that mod.

I'll try it without the terrain mod and with different combos of the controllers and see if I get different results.

On a happier note, AMAZING WORK!  &apls  What I did manage to lay before crashing... :'(  was amazing


Edit:


I've tried a few different combos and all with the same result sorry.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 06, 2013, 04:04:04 PM
Hm, that same issue was reported in Epic's comments, no solution however. Have you tried it with just one controller at a time? And does it also occur in a completly fresh tile?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on February 06, 2013, 04:05:38 PM
Hm, that same issue was reported in Epic's comments, no solution however. Have you tried it with just one controller at a time?


Yeah, I did.  I tried it without any terrain controller. Is there maybe one I should test it with?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 06, 2013, 04:06:59 PM
You're fast.  :D Did you see my edit? If not; does it also occur in a new tile?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on February 06, 2013, 04:27:21 PM
You're fast.  :D Did you see my edit? If not; does it also occur in a new tile?


Sorry, I missed your edit. Yes, I've only done it in new tiles. And it's been new tiles every time cos of the crashes.  :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 06, 2013, 04:57:08 PM
Hm, I've tried the setup you mentioned and can't reproduce it. .   &Thk/(

What about your graphic settings maybe? Does software or hardware rendering make a difference?

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on February 06, 2013, 05:18:09 PM

Hm, I've tried the setup you mentioned and can't reproduce it. .   &Thk/(


What about your graphic settings maybe? Does software or hardware rendering make a difference?




I'll check. I'll also post all my settings shortly. I'll check in game before I crash it ;)




Edit:




I have high settings for everything
All the effects are turned on (clouds, waves, etc.)
32 bit colour
Hardware Renderer


I'm playing windowed with a resolution of 1920x1080


Changing it to software didn't help.


I also rotated the map to see if it it was left right on the screen or east west. It's east west.


I'm on a x64 Win 7 HP Pavilion.
8gb Ram
Nvidia GeForce GTX 550Ti


I tried to swap it out of Windowed mode, but it seems stuck in it. Will take another look over the weekend. Am out tomorrow night.


I can also upload my plugins and the region to fileden if you want to try that?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 06, 2013, 06:04:06 PM
If you could upload your plugins folder and region that would be great, I'm curious to find out what is going on.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on February 06, 2013, 10:42:45 PM
Finally got a chance to test these out in game, and they're amazing. The variety and blending of the flora so far has been great.  &apls

I've run so far the Inland, both Rivers, and both Coasts, individually while using Maxis terrain, without problems. So there's still a lot of tree planting options to try out, but as a first run on basic settings it went very well. Everything looks great, and I haven't so far seen any problems with any of the controllers.

I had a bit of an issue with the Coast Regular where the game would randomly minimize, but I think that was my antivirus updater fighting for memory with the game.  ::)  The controllers did cause some significant lag at times, but I didn't have any actual crashes at any point.

One suggestion I do have from today is that you might want to put a bit in the Readme about planting seasons and the timing of the seasonal changes.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on February 15, 2013, 04:12:57 PM
I've had another play, with my full plugins. I've also added CPU Priority to the shortcut and it seems to have fixed the crashes. I've had no problems this evening and I've planted 2 tiles.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 21, 2013, 06:00:36 PM
Thanks everybody for the feedback!  :thumbsup:

As you may have gathered from the distinct lack of activity, RL has been demanding my attention lately. Rest assured though progress has been made behind the scenes! The readme needs some layout and artwork done as it's a basic text file atm. Sure, a simple textfile might do just fine but somehow I don't like to cut corners at the final stages (who knew this is where the perfectionist devotion part really kicks in?! ;))

Also, I'm in a bit of a moral dilemn, though that's kinda big words. Anyway, I've looked into the scrutenering process here on SC4D and I'm sorry to say it seems cumbersome (no offense to the actual scuterneers). I mean, the controllers have already been put to the test, quite extensivly. And on a related note, I've tried whipping up an installer but couldn't work out the different options I wanted; install one controller at a time in the plugins or all at once outside the plugins. Personally I kinda resent installers anyway so I think the final download will be a zipped folder with all the files instead. Any thoughts on the subject?

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on February 22, 2013, 10:48:05 AM
... And on a related note, I've tried whipping up an installer but couldn't work out the different options I wanted; install one controller at a time in the plugins or all at once outside the plugins. Personally I kinda resent installers anyway so I think the final download will be a zipped folder with all the files instead. Any thoughts on the subject?

I know that feeling, when I made a installer some while ago where there were two options to chose from. I had to state in the readMe that after instalation you would need to delete one file or the other =\

I don't know any free install creator with options on what to install or not =\
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Indiana Joe on February 22, 2013, 12:51:10 PM
I hate installers because I don't use the default profile on my computer, so I have to manually change the destination every time.  Go zipped!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Girafe on February 22, 2013, 01:02:54 PM
I can do installer for you but only in this way:

Install A(all you want) OR B(all you want) OR C but I can't do something with choices  &mmm
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on February 22, 2013, 03:18:45 PM
I would certainly hope that you choose to go through the LEX process. As I understand it installers are not a requirement at this time and I'm sure the testing that's already been done on your work will be taken into consideration. Open up a candidacy thread and see how it goes--if you don't like it you can always give up and upload elsewhere  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on February 22, 2013, 03:24:33 PM
Even I am on the LEX. Okay, it's not exactly a tree controller, but still. Go with zips if that's what you want.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on February 22, 2013, 07:53:50 PM
I think it should be a simple zip file - folks need to have control over where (and what type) the tree controller is installed.  Plus, they need to be aware that the old controller needs to be removed.  Tree controllers are a little more complex, mod wise, so an automatic installer might complicate things further since everybody's plugin folder is different.

BTW, looking forward to the release  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gobias on February 22, 2013, 08:48:48 PM
If you decide you do want to go down the installer road I'd be happy to offer assistance if you'd like.  I wrote installers for both of my terrain mods since they're pretty complicated multi-option installs.  I didn't want people to work out of a zip and wind up choosing the wrong files and bombard with questions about CTDs.

When I released the simpler water/beach/sidewalk mods I didn't mess with installers since those are pretty straightforward installs.  So I just zipped those.

Anyway, to do something with multiple options you just need to write an NSIS script and compile it.  It's intimidating at first but I found it very helpful to learn by looking at an installer that Lowkee linked to on one of his threads.  Using that as a template it all made sense.  Anyway, just let me know if you're looking for any installer help.  There are still a few tricks I haven't learned that I've seen in the NAM installers but most things I've managed to learn how to do.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on February 27, 2013, 10:19:54 AM
Thanks everyone, much appreciated! Somehow I was under the impression installers were a necessity for the LEX so it's good to hear that's not the case. I've started a candidacy thread here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15632.0).  "$Deal"$

For those curious, the readme is available here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6eznaqziwqr3ox/read-me.pdf?dl=1). Spelling and/or grammatical errors are bound to exist, so if anyone likes to proof read, please do so. I also had some doubts on the arrangement (dependencies first?) and in addition the frontpage needs some more attention but I got carried away with photoshop. ;D Of course suggestions to make things as understandable as possible are welcome, too.

Also, in a last minute change of plans as I decided to drop the shore controllers because of a number of reasons. For one it was hard for me to explain proper usage for folks less experienced with switching plugins contents constantly. I felt it complicated things for relative little benefit. Secondly Whatevermind remarked they could use a little more variety, which is true so you can thank him for the decision to scrap them.  $%Grinno$%

Actually it made me think why I wanted to include them in the first place. The reason for which was because this entire project started with the shorelines and the manual labor involved if one wants to have it filled with cattails, reeds, dirt and the like. Somehow this was a prerequiste at the time, before I could really start to feel at home in the region - the one currently still being played on, which makes it the longest in development to date. Anyhow, in general it's safe to say it was my desire to get seasonal mmping over with faster that drove this project forward - in addition to the enthusiastic support throughout from you fine folks - and so here we are, almost a year later! :D

But that's beside the point, which is over the last year I've developed quite a number of shore controllers, more than the two in the beta. However they're not quite suitable for release, if only because I've used the same IDs for different versions. So picking them apart would take some time. In addition I've also made new brushes with smaller items, to use as filler material inbetween lots, since trees aren't appropriate all the time. And with those two things in mind I'm contemplating some sort of scheme, wherein one can switch between all kinds of different brushes with relative ease. That is, most cities differ little in height and thus a fullblown tree controller will give more or less the same result throughout. It would be fun if one could switch flora brushes between play sessions, without losing the already existing flora of course. That said, I know from experience switching brushes can give a bit of a headache. Ideally one would like to have new flora brushes added to the godmode menu, just like Alex's new fauna brushes. . . ::)

So, there you have it, shore controllers won't be included for now but maybe released seperatly later. On the brightside I'm pleased to say evergreen versions are included, just as a little patch for those silly shadows during winter. In addition I'm turning a few 'golden oldies' mmps into seasonal flora to be released alongside. Of course the PEG weeds, which are a perfect candidate, alongside PEG flowers and grasses (still working on possible combinations, quite a few of them. . ). And of course ALN grass will be made seasonal, as well as some of the wild flowers in there.

That's it for now, keep an eye out for the official release!  :)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/0i5r2cnv3q0vgfv/039.jpg)

And a bonus pic because I really like the messy flora, which is the result of using all three controllers and Alex's deer makes it about perfect to me. As always click the pic to view in full size!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on February 27, 2013, 02:59:46 PM
Awesome, can't wait (new seasonal MMPs too!)  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on February 27, 2013, 06:13:00 PM
Don't you think all this time developing the controller you could have plopped cattails in all of Los Angeles (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/27957-just-la/)? Just saying  $%Grinno$%

I admire your work but this fact in addition to the inflexibility of controllers has made me go for MMPs all the way. However, I'm curious to see your results with it. Not to mention new MMPs and other fixes :thumbsup:


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: sunv123 on February 27, 2013, 06:31:46 PM
Yes, I am looking forward to it. $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on February 28, 2013, 03:36:30 AM
did I read evergreen version?  ;D ;D ;D ;D awesome picture :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: packersfan on February 28, 2013, 10:16:00 PM
Amazing.  Can't believe what people have done in this game....makes my city journal look amateurish.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on February 28, 2013, 11:37:16 PM
Amazing.  Can't believe what people have done in this game....makes my city journal look amateurish.

But your street map makes all of us look lazy   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: jmyers2043 on March 03, 2013, 03:20:01 PM
I'm supposed to do some scrutiny but I spent two hours having fun instead. Coastal Extended is the one that planted my plateau and it also plants a nice dense forest.   &apls 

(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/4/1237795/Vortex%203.jpg)



- Jim



Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Rayden on March 03, 2013, 03:49:34 PM
I also played a little while with it ;)
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9669/petropavlovskkamchatsky.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: TheAttendee on March 03, 2013, 03:53:52 PM
Just looked through the thread and readme. Really anticipating using the extended coast controller in my region - it's absolutely stunning! Can't wait!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 03, 2013, 07:13:48 PM
@ Simcoug, thanks!

@ Willly, yeah, probably. .  :D  Then again, a quick comparison tells me the Los Angles shoreline is nowhere near the length I was and in fact, still am facing. Since I've only rendered part of the region thusfar I actually have quite some treeiing ahead of me (oh joy ::)). Anyhow, there's no doubt mmping allows for more flexibility and variety, as it's equally sure it takes up more time, especially at large, i.e. regional scale.

@ sunv123, it seems like you now have acces to it as well.  ;)

@ gn_leugim, you've read correctly sir!  :D Thanks!

@ packersfan, thanks! Though I'll echo epicblunder as your map is nothing short of amazing! As is your entire region as matter of fact.  :thumbsup:

@ Jim, sorry for the distraction! Looking forward to the final verdict.  :-[ :D

@ Rayden, I'd love to see it in summer as well!  ;D Though looking at it makes me want to change the Preference Table just a little bit.  &Thk/(

@ TheAttendee, glad you like it, thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on March 04, 2013, 05:00:26 AM
I've been playing with this over the weekend and have a follow up question. My tree line seems to be very low for the hills. I've got some high, but not mountainous areas and I can't get trees up there with the controller. What's the tree line set to, and is there a wait to increase it?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 04, 2013, 05:31:18 AM
My tree line seems to be very low for the hills. I've got some high, but not mountainous areas and I can't get trees up there with the controller. What's the tree line set to, and is there a wait to increase it?

Tree line height is different for each terrain mod and set with the Flora: elevation scale range which you can change with the Reader. It's located either in the Seasonal Flora Patch if you use any of CPs terrain mods (and Heblem's) or in the main controller files for Lowkee's and Gobias' terrain mods.

Maybe I should make a section on that in the read-me as well since the tree line actually is off for most of CPs terrain mods.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on March 04, 2013, 05:40:06 AM
Will changing it mess up any of the areas I've already... treed?  Treeed... treeeeeed... ()what()
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 04, 2013, 05:44:55 AM
Will changing it mess up any of the areas I've already... treed?  Treeed... treeeeeed... ()what()

Planted is the word you're looking for maybe?!  %confuso  :D

Anyhow, it will not mess things up (i.e. no ctds). It might look a little strange though for instance when after changing it you get deciduous trees above already existing subalpine firs.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on March 04, 2013, 05:50:45 AM
Will changing it mess up any of the areas I've already... treed?  Treeed... treeeeeed... ()what()

Planted is the word you're looking for maybe?!  %confuso  :D

Anyhow, it will not mess things up (i.e. no ctds). It might look a little strange though for instance when after changing it you get deciduous trees above already existing subalpine firs.

I prefer treee-eee-eeeed I think.  $%Grinno$%  And yeah, I figured that would be an issue, but I don't have to many areas where it's high so I can just fix those.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Rayden on March 04, 2013, 06:18:59 AM
One question, does the mod spread between specific heights or spread over the the height of any terrain being played? Also, if the highest point of the region it's say for instance, 1000 mts, and the terrain mod is set for max 2500 mts, how that influences the tree spread of your mod, and if I set max terrain height for a lower number how it will improve or not?
About the trees in summer, I'll do it, just have to open, let it run for 6 months and save, that 61 times  $%Grinno$%
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 04, 2013, 06:32:01 AM
What the Flora: elevation scale range basically does is divide the given value into 16 equal parts, which correspond to the rows from the Preference Table. If I remember correctly it's independent from either terrein mod height or the highest point in the region. That is to say, if you had the terrain mod set for max 2500 mts and the elevation scale range at, say 40000 mts (16 times 2500), you would only get flora from the lowest row in the Preference Table throughout the region.

Also, it should be noted my tree controllers do not set or change elevation scale range in any way. As said before this is either done with the Seasonal Flora Patch or in the main controllers files for Lowkee's and Gobias' terrain mods. 
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Rayden on March 04, 2013, 08:17:58 AM
I'm using Lowkee's Terrain mod that has the elevation scale range set at 500 mts. So, that means no trees grow over that height and all 16 rows are spread over those 500 meters, isn't that so? Shall I change that value, say, to 1000 or even 1500 meters. I go often to the Alps and I can see trees growing at heights of 1600/1800 mts.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 04, 2013, 08:40:22 AM
I'm using Lowkee's Terrain mod that has the elevation scale range set at 500 mts. So, that means no trees grow over that height and all 16 rows are spread over those 500 meters, isn't that so?

For all intents and purposes this is correct, yes. (After giving it some more thought I realised it's a little more complicated but that doesn't matter really)

Also, Lowkee did a pretty good job matching the tree and snowline. Seeing the elevation scale range is at 500 mts makes me think you use the low altitude version. You might want to do a reinstall and opt for high altitude instead.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Rayden on March 04, 2013, 08:52:19 AM
I'm not sure what version I have, I think it's a custom one he made for me, but probably based on a lower version of his mod. The name of the file is LK_AppalachianTerrain_Snow_Jagged_Magic_2500mt.dat.
I've checked and his version of the high altitude has elevation scale range set at 1250 mts, so, I'm going to set my file to that number, perhaps 1500 mts and check other values as well against the high altitude version. ;)
Thanks for the help
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on March 07, 2013, 11:56:03 PM
Howdy vortext,

Good news regarding that reported bug where the game crashes when god-mode planting and the edge of the tool hits the city boundary:  I've been contacted by a simtrop user who had this problem, and after some testing he contacted me again and said his previous .exe wasn't updated fully, and updating to 1.1.638 fixed the problem.  I haven't been able to test it myself yet but hopefully that's all that particular bug is.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on March 08, 2013, 02:45:44 AM
Howdy vortext,

Good news regarding that reported bug where the game crashes when god-mode planting and the edge of the tool hits the city boundary:  I've been contacted by a simtrop user who had this problem, and after some testing he contacted me again and said his previous .exe wasn't updated fully, and updating to 1.1.638 fixed the problem.  I haven't been able to test it myself yet but hopefully that's all that particular bug is.

I fixed this problem by adding -CPUCount:1 to my shortcut.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on March 08, 2013, 11:12:00 AM
Howdy vortext,

Good news regarding that reported bug where the game crashes when god-mode planting and the edge of the tool hits the city boundary:  I've been contacted by a simtrop user who had this problem, and after some testing he contacted me again and said his previous .exe wasn't updated fully, and updating to 1.1.638 fixed the problem.  I haven't been able to test it myself yet but hopefully that's all that particular bug is.


I fixed this problem by adding -CPUCount:1 to my shortcut.

that is a must to anyone who has a multicore pc ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on March 08, 2013, 02:50:04 PM
...
I fixed this problem by adding -CPUCount:1 to my shortcut.
that is a must to anyone who has a multicore pc ;)

I've used tree controllers extensively while running the .exe without that switch on my AMD dual core and never once experienced that specific bug, so although that may indeed help the problem in some cases, I believe having an un-updated .exe is at the root of that specific bug, but whatever (not saying i recommend dual-coring the game, just that i've done it enough i should have experienced it if that was the sole cause).  I'm just listing it so vortext has an answer when a user inevitably lists that specific complaint.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on March 08, 2013, 03:11:32 PM
...
I fixed this problem by adding -CPUCount:1 to my shortcut.
that is a must to anyone who has a multicore pc ;)

I've used tree controllers extensively while running the .exe without that switch on my AMD dual core and never once experienced that specific bug, so although that may indeed help the problem in some cases, I believe having an un-updated .exe is at the root of that specific bug, but whatever (not saying i recommend dual-coring the game, just that i've done it enough i should have experienced it if that was the sole cause).  I'm just listing it so vortext has an answer when a user inevitably lists that specific complaint.

It's not the ONLY cause, as I had an updated EXE.   ;)  But definitely something worth noting.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 10, 2013, 06:40:45 AM
Good to know there're at least two known fixes for this issue, I'll add it to the read-me!

Thank you gentlemen!  (http://www.simpeg.com/forum/Smileys/custom1/icon_salut.gif)

Funny how easily one gets used to using certain emoticons.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on March 10, 2013, 04:04:09 PM
For what I know, the dual cores dont handle well the game, and if it pushed to a point, where both cores are used (as zoming out, rotating, where I experienced most issues) it's likely to crash. from the moment I started to use that little piece of code never again I had crashes
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 11, 2013, 07:01:26 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen,

If I please may have your attention for a moment. . It's with distinct pleasure I'm here to tell you that, in case you hadn't noticed already (I hadn't  ::) ), the Seasonal Tree Controllers are available for download!!!  %BUd%

Get it here (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2959) and please report any problems you may encounter. The tree controller help desk is now open for business!  :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on March 11, 2013, 07:21:52 AM
here I go ^^
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on March 12, 2013, 10:11:11 PM
I've finally (whew) tested you controller. I'm quite impressed. In fact very much so. The clustering and parameters are perfect, if there is such a thing. Knowing first hand what it takes, you deserve a lot of praise for this. Now of course I don't agree with every flora selection - those PEG weeds are quite out of place I think - but there's nothing some tweaking can't fix. Not too much is necessary, though. Great work!

(Some pics in the Noro thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15529.msg454607#msg454607).)


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on March 13, 2013, 03:22:57 AM
One good tip for anyone wanting to swap controllers; the cheat code Flora off (or Floraoff) will destroy all Flora in a city tile without destroying the buildings. This allows you to load and old controller, destroy the Flora, load new controller, win! It's also useful when you've planted in the wrong season, as I did on every second tile. Also, to use it a second time you have to use Flora on before using Flora off again.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 13, 2013, 08:40:11 AM
@ Willy, thanks for your kind words! Glad to hear you're enjoying them!

@ Diggis, that's a nifty tip for sure! Thanks!

~

Well, the release seems to go pretty smooth so far, much to my relieve.

There was one lady in distress over at SimPeg and though she got it working eventually it left me wondering about a weird bug she reported. Playing SimCity on a mac, it seems like tree controllers won't allow for dense forests as it would on a pc, which is a shame really. Are there any mac users here that have similar experiences? Or any mac users who can do a little investigation into it? Any feedback on the subject is appreciated.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Jack_wilds on March 13, 2013, 05:57:54 PM
will the 'flora on-off' thing also stop 'ctds'... as I swap-out CP-Columbus No-7 tree controllers [does that include the enn variations, the jagged edge mods by enn, cp and also the JR snow low-lower configs  %confuso ???]... but it ctd's  &mmm when I go to terrain modify...

what items do I need for the columbus terrain mod + the arden tree controller, and then how do I modify the snow level...

where do I find the current version needed to stop edge crashes and then where to I state the core number... should I put it one as I have a dual pent t4300
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on March 13, 2013, 06:38:10 PM
will the 'flora on-off' thing also stop 'ctds'... as I swap-out CP-Columbus No-7 tree controllers [does that include the enn variations, the jagged edge mods by enn, cp and also the JR snow low-lower configs  %confuso ???]... but it ctd's  &mmm when I go to terrain modify...

It did for me. I used it on 2 developed tiles with CP tree controllers and managed to swap it out. You can't swap controllers if there are still flora in the city. But if you clear it before removing the old controller using the method above, it should be OK.

where do I find the current version needed to stop edge crashes and then where to I state the core number... should I put it one as I have a dual pent t4300

To stop the edge crash I added the -CPUCount:1 to my shortcut.  I don't believe it's the core number as much as the number of cores it'll utilise.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 14, 2013, 02:50:39 PM
Hm yeah, Jack_wilds it sounds like there're a number of things going on. Diggis already gave sound advice, here's mine.

First of all set the CPU count to one in the shortcut. Next start a completely new city without any terrain mod - don't forget the Seasonal Flora Patch though - and check if this eliminates the edge crash problem. Hopefully it does.

Now in order to make the switch from CP-Columbus No-7 tree controllers, use the 'Flora off' cheat. Please note this will eliminate all flora, including carefully crafted mmp scenes. If you don't want to lose those you'll have to bulldoze every single CP flora item manually. Either way, save-and-exit once that's done. If everything went well, you can now use my controllers without problems. If you still experience CTDs when you try to terraform an area, there're still some of CPs flora left.

Let me know how it works out!

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: M4346 on March 16, 2013, 06:45:14 AM
Thanks for the great work and effort put into this tree controller!

I'm had a bit of a problem though, as depicted below:

(http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc486/Marius_Manqoba_Redelinghuys/SeasonalTreeControllerlarge_zps0397addc.jpg)

It happens with both the seasonal and evergreen extended river tree controller, on all elevations, close to or far away from the water.

I have triple checked the dependencies and have every single one of them.

It turns out that I still had the BETA version of the ALN Pasture Flora, and while they worked fine on their own and were unchanged (in terms of models) in the final version, their IIDs / packaging must have changed and they weren't referenced / picked up by the seasonal tree controller.

You therefore need the most recent / latest / final release of the ALN Pasture Flora  :-[ ;D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 20, 2013, 09:15:35 AM
I'm had a bit of a problem though, as depicted below:

What do you mean, exactly?! This is the special neon edition!  $%Grinno$%


It turns out that I still had the BETA version of the ALN Pasture Flora, and while they worked fine on their own and were unchanged (in terms of models) in the final version, their IIDs / packaging must have changed and they weren't referenced / picked up by the seasonal tree controller.

You therefore need the most recent / latest / final release of the ALN Pasture Flora  :-[ ;D

Most likely that's what happened indeed. Glad you got it sorted out. Though I guess this demonstrates yet again Read-Me files are there for a reason!  ::) ;D :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 23, 2013, 12:15:39 PM
Double post, because strange as it is, I've actually ran into a problem with seasonal flora myself. .

Thing is, after learning my mouse a new trick for supereasy tree-ing and being a bit dissatisfied with the current state of affairs anyway, I've started the region all over (Again! Third time is a charm, right?!  ::)).

I used a previous back-up of the region to start with which already had some flora in place. For some tiles I used the 'flora off' cheat to clear them. However, now I find the seasonal flora is broken in those particular tiles. That is, flora remains in autumn state througout the year.  :(

Really strange and it left me wondering if anyone else has encountered this problem? Also, maybe using the 'flora off' cheat isn't such a good idea after all. . ?!  &mmm
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: gn_leugim on March 23, 2013, 12:19:14 PM
I haven't., as I never used that cheat to be honest =\
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 23, 2013, 12:42:02 PM
Nevermind, already found the solution! 

Also, to use it a second time you have to use Flora on before using Flora off again.

This is the crux! Apparently, you've got to use 'Flora on' every single time after you used 'Flora off' to clear a tile. Then and only then will the seasons work properly.  :)

Also, for folks dreading to tree an entire region and who've got a decent mouse (i.e. one that allows you to assign different functions to keys) it might be worth while to do a little exploring in the configurations panel and see if there're any functions which mention 'locking' or something. I've got a logitech mouse and set the scrollwheel to 'scrolllock' which together with Whatevermind's flora brush (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2882) turns out to works quite convenient.

To tree a tile, all I need to do now is open it, zoom out, select the flora brush and click the scrollwheel, just once! Then I can sit back or do other stuff, come back 5 minutes later or so and the entire tile is treed! To deactived to flora brush I simply click the scrollwheel once more. Yay, no more going up-and-down to check if everything is covered, all the while holding down the left mouse button untill RSI sets in! And it works for every other godmode brush, too, which makes terraforming a heck of a lot easier as well!  ()stsfd()
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Jack_wilds on March 23, 2013, 04:57:49 PM
that is what I found with the cheat... to 'flora off' close out of city and game... return to game and city then 'flora on' and for the most part -no apparent issues, works ok... but now I find that I ain't getting forests like I want, I am using the 'inlet' variation... but that is my fault for the game play I use; as I have set elevation lower through the region to manage a better more reasonable appearance transition to 'sea side' areas... I also chose to use the deciduous trees but now I miss the mix of pines in the wood lots too... thats my $0.02 worth
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on March 23, 2013, 05:13:12 PM
Jack_wilds, you can lower the treeline as well. With the Reader, change the value for Flora: elevation scale range, a property found in the Flora Tuning Parameters exemplar, which itself is located either in the Seasonal Flora Patch for CP's or the controller file for Lowkee's and Gobias' terrain mod.


Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Diggis on March 24, 2013, 11:21:01 AM
This is the crux! Apparently, you've got to use 'Flora on' every single time after you used 'Flora off' to clear a tile. Then and only then will the seasons work properly.  :)

Glad I saw this, pretty sure some of my cities need me to turn that back on...  ::)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Smeel on April 02, 2013, 03:34:11 PM
Wow, this is the best tree controller I've seen yet, thanks for sharing this with us, it looks absolutely amazing!
I do have a little problem though... I'm having trouble switching between the evergreen coast and the evergreen Inland. My game ctds when I've planted trees with one Tree controller, and then save to exit, switch the TC to the other one and try to use the God mod flora tool again.

The way  I want to use it is to have the Inland tc to plant before I build, since it doesn't fill the whole tile, and then switch to the coastal tc. Have I done something wrong? The evergreen TC's are supposed to be interchangeable, right? :-[

PS: Now I remember that I actually used one of the seasonal TC first, could it be related to that?
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on April 02, 2013, 04:53:18 PM
Yes, the evergreen versions ought to work interchangeable as well. The good news is I've managed to replicate the CTD and it's rather odd it seems bound to this specific combination, as it doesn't happen the other way around. Nor is it related to your initial use of a seasonal tc btw (though I wouldn't recommend using seasonal and evergreen interchangeable). The bad news is I can't exactly pinpoint the problem right away. There're a few clues to investigate though, I'll get back to you asap. Until then it seems it's not possible to do what you want.  &mmm
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Smeel on April 02, 2013, 05:18:52 PM
Thank you for the swift answer! Once again, fantastic work with this mod :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on April 06, 2013, 09:08:02 AM
Alright, found the culprit. Turns out the problem wasn't in the Inland controller. Instead there was this one item in Coast and River which wasn't properly converted to RKT1 and caused CTDs when those controllers were loaded after usage of Inland. An updated version will be uploaded shortly. Files have been updated.  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: aka.john on April 08, 2013, 09:33:44 AM
Is there an updated list for dependencies?  I've got all of the ones that are listed in the pdf (I downloaded the mod about 10 days ago) but I am getting a lot of brown boxes popping up when I try to use the G*d mode tree populator.  Also, every once in a while the tree populator will not populate any trees at all (wasn't a problem before installing the tree mod).

Thanks.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on April 08, 2013, 10:20:07 AM
Is there an updated list for dependencies?  I've got all of the ones that are listed in the pdf (I downloaded the mod about 10 days ago) but I am getting a lot of brown boxes popping up when I try to use the G*d mode tree populator. 

No, dependencies have not changed so if you get brown boxes, something obviously is still missing. CP vol1 was updated a while ago, perhaps you still have the outdated version in the plugins?

Also, every once in a while the tree populator will not populate any trees at all (wasn't a problem before installing the tree mod).

Never happened to me, so not quite sure what's going on. Though it sound like another flora brush in your plugins is interfering. Could be a remnant from a previous tree controllers (CP provided a larger flora brush iirc) or maybe a mmp is giving trouble. Does the tree controller load last? If not, see if it make a difference if it's located in a 'zzz_tree controller' folder or similar.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: dragonshardz on April 09, 2013, 08:32:52 PM
I'm just wondering, where is this Seasonal Flora Patch the readme mentions - the LEX download linked to is actually a download for some of girafe's props and I can't find any sort of patch in the tree controller download.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on April 10, 2013, 11:13:41 AM
Thanks for pointing that out!  :thumbsup:  Bit strange it'd escaped my attention though.  :-[

Anyhow, here's the Seasonal Flora Patch (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2612).

Once again the LEX download will be updated. Files have been updated!! Thanks again BarbyW! :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on April 17, 2013, 11:09:45 AM
Double post because, well, time to get back into the swing of things.   :)

First of all I discovered how to make proper 256 pixel multi-fsh textures, which imho look just a tad better compared to 128 pixel textures. Admittedly it was by lucky accident, however, I'm glad SC4PIM handles them smoothly now, instead of throwing error messages like it would previously. What's more, it appears I've cracked to secret to generating multiple, almost completely seamless textures. 

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/d392egxvyub56r7/mm%201.jpg)
In closest zoom.

There're four textures involved here and I dare you to find a single seam! ;D You can though, look closely!  ;)
It requires no tedious manual labor, other than hitting the 'randomize' button and judging whether or not that particular variation would be a nice fit. Another example.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/mvdziikfjn7nj57/mm%202.jpg)

Six textures involved here and again all are pretty much seamless. Yes, the colors still leave something to be desired but more important is the fact that finally, the texture doesn't turn into a monochromatic blur when viewed from afar!

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/wk0qon8t4ce4m9i/mm%203.jpg)

This was somewhat of a issue and some textures still suffer from it but I've found a little post processing goes a long way to counter this.


Meanwhile, over at Simpeg interesting developments are taking place.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ne0x7isbsi8dq9j/hh.jpg)

The so-called Historic Harbor set - a collaboration between me, Simcoug and Krashspeed -  is starting to shape up quite nicely. The pieces can be directly plopped into water so you don't have to bother terraforming as much. However, the orientation of the deck, combined with curves and diagonals proves to be a challenge. Most likely there'll be two menu entries for each piece, with a 90 degree difference in deck orientation. Unless we can come up with a clever alternative. . any suggestions, perhaps?

Also, I wanted the pieces to be located in the seaports menu, which is easy enough to achieve by changing the Occupant Groups. However, it turns out when I do this they no longer show in the city budget. Not under parks, nor under seaports, where I would expect them to be. Does anyone know how to get the pieces back into the city budget? Either as parks (while retaining their position in the seaports menu!) or ideally, if possible I'd like them to be accounted for as seaports, though with a small monthly cost per piece. Any thoughts on the matter are greatly appreciated!

At any rate, lets continue. Did I already mention there's neat stuff going on over at Simpeg?  ::)

(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t473/krashspeed/SC4/KS_0177_zpse7ca7736.jpg)

Like, really neat stuff.

(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t473/krashspeed/SC4/KS_0194_zpsdeb8ce8c.jpg)

All the props go to Krashspeed! &apls  &apls pun intended!  :P
Basically he takes any idea I and Simcoug throw at him into consideration. Quays, sure why not?! Some (medieval) harbor cranes, no problem. Though iirc he came up with the horse tram, which is frigging awesome if you ask me. Latest I heard he has become a dressmaker. .  :D


And finally something I've been playing around with the last couple of days.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/49n9quln58rd41u/rs-a.jpg)

Nothing special really, it just hit me this would probably be a good flora mixture to go along rural streets.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/5lxwcyeiif06pi3/rs-s.jpg)

At the moment I'm contemplating wether or nor to add Murimk's flat rocks into the mix. What you do you think?
Maybe it'll turn into a more extensive street mod as I do have a few more ideas (though this already is quite dependency heavy ::)). Or maybe it doesn't, I'll see.

That's it for now!  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on April 17, 2013, 11:32:36 AM
Cool stuff! &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on April 17, 2013, 06:32:11 PM
Nice Roadside.   ;D

IIRC, murimk's flat rocks are SD.  If you're considering single flat rocks and want HD i'd suggest taking a look at nbvc's temple path stepping stone rocks. (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/27995-stone-paths/)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: rooker1 on April 18, 2013, 05:43:16 AM
Love the road side as well.  A little more variation would be nice, but not absolutely needed.

Robin
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on April 18, 2013, 08:47:38 AM
The roadside is beautiful! This thread is called Street Geekery after all, isn't it?
Anyway: I vote against streetside rocks, simply because I would not use it if it had.... I don't use rocks in my Dutch landscapes. You know why.
But shrubberies, a flower here and there, some weeds. That would be great and help us to save time in making nice regions.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: RickD on April 18, 2013, 12:55:22 PM
I have to agree with Frank here. The shrubs and flowers looks great but the stones are too special to fit in most scenarios.
Anyway, I know I am late, but I love the finished tree controllers. I just started using it yesterday. Once I had a strange bug where all the wrong trees were planted but a reboot of the game solved it. Empire Bay now looks better than ever before.  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on April 21, 2013, 09:20:29 AM
Thanks everyone for your comments! Rather than addressing each personally, allow me to ponder the possibilities for the rural street side mod (as that's it name now, apparently :D).

While I do share the sentiment for foliage only there simply aren't enough shrubs yet, even though Girafe's latest berries are excellent, so I was looking for more variety / ground cover. Sure, I could add some flora from CP but that would introduce SD items, which I guess also was the reason for being hesitant about Murimk's rocks.

Given the above, I remembered Neko's HD rapeseed props, which are quite excellent for my purposes. Of course Girafe's lupines come to mind as well, but I feel they would clash with the other flowers. Though maybe I could make spring bloom white/yellow and summer red/purple, or the other way around. Anyhow, here's how it looks at the moment.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/yjngeit54f6xkco/rs%20f.jpg)
Fall

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/pxp7ls9jw6m94ln/rs%20w.jpg)
Winter

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/0fv3egdu195ecqa/rs%20sp.jpg)
Spring

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/w5z5ul9anut0dco/rs%20su.jpg)
Summer

Since I've added Neko's flora it has become a little messy so I'll need to do some reshuffling in the LE. However, I actually do quite like the little rocks so they'll most likely stay. Though maybe it could be made optional somehow.  &Thk/(

Moving on to textures then. As indicated a while ago I'm planning a LE set and while overlays and such are ready to be exported, colors still prove difficult because I want them to blend into a number of terrain mods as good as possible.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/2ompmcdpigut9v0/LE%20Maxis.jpg)
Maxis

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/o5x4wpc8ygm661y/LE%20Lowkee.jpg)
Appalachian

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/bp9jcmn0a66feff/LE%20OB.jpg)
Berner-Oberland

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/d8fh17rr9cokh0o/LE%20SV.jpg)
Sudden Valley

As far as I'm concerned it's a pretty decent match to both standard Maxis' and Lowkee's terrain. Gobias' Sudden Valley still looks a bit awkward, not to mention his Berner-Oberland mod. The latter is quite the outlier when it comes to color anyway so maybe I shouldn't focus on it too much. Any thoughts?

And finally the new, new NAM has me excited because of Willy's wonderful work on the streets. It's truly amazing and I wish to take full advantage of it. But of course the standard Maxis' textures are a big no no in my playbook. Therefor;

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/77st89yscwp3zpw/ccsm-standard1.jpg)

Color is not final yet. Width is the same as the standard streets but that may change in the future, too. More important is I've finally figured out how to make proper wide curves textures.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/dcb4phb1lgvt0jp/ccsm-wc1.jpg)

 ()stsfd()

That's it. Suggestions and ideas are welcome!


Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on April 21, 2013, 10:50:02 AM
Once again you're far too productive for me to keep up with. I love it all, though I have no suggestions to make.

Love the horse tram. In fact I suggested this to Arne but it looks like that's not necessary anymore.


Let me know if you have any other ideas for street RULs.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Gugu3 on April 21, 2013, 11:41:58 AM
Great job here Vortext!outstanding work with the flora props...nice street texture as well &apls
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Kergelen on April 21, 2013, 12:24:59 PM
Nice street textures, ideal for old-towns. &apls

I like the street side mod, although there are too many rocks for my taste. IMO darker rocks fits better because seems random, and the group of rocks in round shape seems less natural.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on April 21, 2013, 12:42:40 PM
Excellent work with the "Rural Street Side Mod"! The texture set is also looking very nice. Too bad the SV fit is a little weird but can't please everybody  ;)  Beautiful street textures and perfect curve as well!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: FrankU on April 22, 2013, 08:02:16 AM
Hi Vortex,

Don't you have anything else to do? Each time I take a look at your thread there is something completely new.
The Rural street side mod is great. Maybe you could make the mod in such a way that rock-haters could install some invisible props that overwrite the rockprops? And another: is it possible to make this mod in such a way that it only works on certain SAM streets? Not all? It would be great for rural streets, but not for urbans streets. Right?

The street texture is great! It's perfect for historical streets.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: whatevermind on April 22, 2013, 10:28:06 PM
This all looks quite amazing, as usual. The rural street side mod is pretty neat. I happen to like the rocks, particularly when you get a string of them together, like it's the ruins of an old low stone wall, slowly succumbed to the overgrowth and the effects of time. Your cobblestone street is looking great as well!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: epicblunder on April 22, 2013, 11:28:05 PM
...like it's the ruins of an old low stone wall, slowly succumbed to the overgrowth and the effects of time.

There you go: Aubrac stone wall pieces.   ;D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on April 25, 2013, 04:37:48 PM
@ Willy, thanks! I'll pass the praise on to Krashspeed! Keep in mind the horsetram is just a prop though. If you can convince Arne to make a horsetram automata, please by all means do so!  ;)

And since you asked for RUL ideas. .  ::)

First of all, the ability to draw intersections from the 90 degree and S curves is rather genius. The resulting street plan flows so organically, gorgeous really and I've vowed to never-ever use an ordinary t-intersection again.  $%Grinno$%

That said, if it's possible I'd like to have the same ability for the 45 degree wide curve (1). In addition it would be even more awesome if intersections could be drawn from inside of the curve as well (2, this goes for all wide curves). And of course FAR streets would be far out . .   :P

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/vc2rrf1joiizfd6/rul.jpg)

Anyhow, probably nothing you didn't think of yourself already and I'm more than happy with the current possibilities anyway!  :thumbsup:

@ Gugu3, thanks! I'm glad you like it!

@ Kergelen, yep, the new street textures are meant to add some historic character.  ()stsfd() As for the rocks, you certainly have a point round clusters aren't all that natural. That said, I do like to have the occasional rock laying around so . . maybe I can find better alternatives.  &Thk/(

@ Noah, yeah, I guess a compromise is inevitable. Thing is, I actually use the SV mod myself . .  &sly  :D Thanks for your kind words!

@ Frank, hehe, keep in mind most of what I've shown thus far is 'proof of concept', so to speak. Whipping up a texture or making a few T21s isn't too hard, not anymore at least. Getting it consistent across the board and ready to ship out. .  ::) Anyhow, I was planning to apply the rural street mod to PEGs dirt and gravel streets, in addition to Trolca's dirt streets, which seems most appropriate to me. As for the rocks, yes, blind props could work too. .  &Thk/(

@ whatevermind, thanks!! I like the overgrown look as well, in fact that's kinda what I was going for.  :)

@ epicblunder, those have crossed my mind as well. .   ::)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on April 27, 2013, 01:44:57 PM
*click for full size*
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/hikki69oysa4pd8/ccsm-standard2.jpg)

Widened the texture and cleaned it up a bit. Also played around with different scaling factors. Zone dependency was used as a gimmick in order to see all three variations at once. Although I did wonder if it would be worth the trouble to actually implement it, given it boils down to creating at least more than one texture set.   &Thk/(
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: APSMS on May 12, 2013, 06:44:36 AM
Sorry to bump this thread, but does anyone know, regarding switching tree controllers, when I use the "flora off" cheat, do I need to use it before I switch controllers or can I use it after the fact before I place any trees in a previously occupied tile? (Erasing all of the trees in the cities in my currently active regions is going to take a lot more time than I previously thought,)

Nice textures, by the way.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on May 12, 2013, 12:34:19 PM
Sorry to bump this thread

No problem.

does anyone know, regarding switching tree controllers, when I use the "flora off" cheat, do I need to use it before I switch controllers or can I use it after the fact before I place any trees in a previously occupied tile?

My advice would be to err on the side of caution. That is, use 'flora off' while the old tree controller is still in the plugins. Depending on tile size and flora density it may take a while to clear the entire region indeed. Also note the 'flora off' cheat will remove any and all MMPs you may have plopped.

Of course, you could try and see what happens when 'flora off' is used without the tree controller present. My suspicion is the tile will start to experience CTDs somewhere along the line, so please make a back-up before experimenting.

Nice textures, by the way.

Thanks!  :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: noahclem on May 12, 2013, 04:01:23 PM
I'm really (continuing to) like the streets Erik  :o  Perfect detail and goes beautifully with that sidewalk as well. I think I could find a nice place for both in a variety of time periods.
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on May 13, 2013, 07:41:32 AM
Thanks for the ideas Erik. I already have a 45° curve with intersection all drawn and ready, but I need to get into RUL2 first to complete it. Now the code has been split up I might just be able to do that.

Intersections on the inside of curves are a bit of a specialty, couldn't personally see their use when I thought of them. I'll take a look at the INRULs and see if it's feasible to do.

And we'll keep silent about that last idea, shall we? Although. . .  :-\


Cheers
Willy


PS: Great cobbles! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on May 13, 2013, 11:47:49 AM
Thanks Noah! As you correctly noticed I'm aiming for a generic cobblestone texture to fit a variety of players' styles so I'm pretty pleased that comes across. The sidewalk is taken from Gobias' Sidewalk mod (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2850) btw.

Good to hear the 45 curve has already been taken care of Willy!  :thumbsup:

As for intersections at the inside, it serve little purpose for the small 90 degree curve indeed. However, for other two curves I do see advantages to it. Especially at the outermost part of the large 90 degree curve. And I was also wondering if diagonal (outer & inner) intersections would be possible, like so.

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/qbd3qu31x388gpj/rul2.jpg)
Hm yeah, hope it's clear enough .

Glad you like the cobblestone texture! Unfortunately I've had little time lately, though I did improve upon the widecurve texture procedure recently so. . . that's something.  :D
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Simcoug on May 13, 2013, 12:11:19 PM
That cobblestone street texture is beautiful - I'd use that in a heartbeat :)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Smeel on May 14, 2013, 06:47:10 AM
I've been using your tree controller for some time, and i't absolutely amazing, it's so well made! As I've written before, I'm using the coast controller to fill spaces where I've want forest that the Inland controller doesn't fill. This made me thinking about the possibility to have more controllers for specific purposes. I have no idea if this is possible, but would it for example be possible to create a controller that is more conifer heavy, be compatible with your other controllers and would fill the map the same way the coast controller do?

And fantastic work on those streets, they look fantastic!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Swordmaster on May 14, 2013, 09:24:28 AM
Clear for sure. Good idea and added to my (monstrous) to-do list ;)


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on May 14, 2013, 12:26:58 PM
Thanks Simcoug, I'm looking forward to using it too.

Glad I could provided some ideas Willy. Curious to learn what is and what is not possible! :)

Smeel, first of all thanks you for the kind words! Much appreciated!  ()stsfd()

I'm using the coast controller to fill spaces where I've want forest that the Inland controller doesn't fill.

Hehe, what you've done is almost the same as I did, i.e. using controllers one after another to fill in blank spots. I went Inland -> River -> Coast, in addition to some tweaks in between each session, and I was very pleased with the results. For instance;

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/y07bukobuemgzwp/floramix2013.jpg)
The careful observer might notice Girafe's Larches, which are frigging awesome! And alright, I'll admit I just wanted to show of a bit!


The variety which comes from using all tree controllers after another hasn't seized to amaze me and in fact gave me the idea to make a new controller 'simply' by superimposing the current controllers onto each other, in order to create a new, super varied controller! (please note the idea still solely exists in my mind so don't get your hopes up for a release any time soon). Now, onto the question.

This made me thinking about the possibility to have more controllers for specific purposes. I have no idea if this is possible, but would it for example be possible to create a controller that is more conifer heavy, be compatible with your other controllers and would fill the map the same way the coast controller do?

Why yes, that's certainly possible. The easiest would be to take the existing fir & conifers brushes and play around with their Preference Table. This is the basic mechanism which determines where flora is planted, so you could make them appear wherever you'd like. However, as simple as it sounds, getting it right (i.e. going back-and-forth in various tiles to see how it looks) would still take quite some time, which I don't have much atm. Besides, there's other stuff I'd like to spend it on instead.  ;)

That said, it's entirely feasible to create another tree controller simply by rearranging flora from mine. If you or anyone else reading along is genuinely interested in doing so, you can send me a PM and I'll happily provide you with the single brushes to play around with and help understanding the basics, if necessary.

Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Indiana Joe on May 14, 2013, 04:28:23 PM
I've already taught myself enough, while playing around with your controller, to replace those (IMHO) oversized PEG weeds of the Coast controller with some more elegant Giraffe cattails.  I very much like the resulting riversides:

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8959/brinkleydelta.jpg)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on May 14, 2013, 04:36:05 PM
Hehe, yes, PEGs weed are big indeed. At the time I'd intended the Coast controller to be more rugged than the River controller so I'd figured they'd be a good fit, besides providing some variety.

Anyhow, are you saying you'd like to tinker some more?!
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: Indiana Joe on May 14, 2013, 04:39:40 PM
One thing I've considered is decreasing the cluster space of all of the trees to provide a denser forest on flat land.  But I don't know any way other than editing each exemplar one by one, which would be awfully cumbersome, so I'm putting it off for now.  I really don't have the patience for this stuff  :P
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on May 14, 2013, 04:47:09 PM
Yep, the only way to address spacing is to edit each exemplar by hand . . awfully cumbersome indeed. . not to mention you can screw up the entire brush while doing so forcing you back to start. . 

On the flip side, it did actually teach me to be more patient!  ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: vortext on June 01, 2013, 01:31:48 AM
Double post because of a somewhat sad announcement. . .

Exactly two years after the inception of Street Geekery, I'm sorry to say this post will be the very last from me.

Yes my friends, my time on this board has come to an end. It still feels kinda unreal but it was bound to happen sooner or later. It's time for me to move on. . .








































. . . to the Recently Published MD board (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15903)!!!!


 ;D ;D  ;D

Okay, that probably wasn't near as funny for you as it was for me.  :P

Still, I haven't lied a bit though as Street Geekery will no longer be updated. From now on you can instead follow my shenanigans in my brand-new Mayor Diary Ćrden (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=15903). So hop on over and say something nice, I've a little stage fright. ;)
Title: Re: Street Geekery
Post by: fe_lipe on August 05, 2013, 08:23:12 AM

 Hello!  :)

 After quite a while testing my SC4D with Arden Tree Controller I'm still not able to play it... I'm also having the edge crash while planting trees. Right now there are only two files on my plugin folder: the tree controller itself and Sudden Valley terrain (I tested both separated also: Sudden Valley does not crash, not by itself nor along with my whole plugin folder). The tree controller crashes no matter what.

 I'm running SC4D on hardware; I've got all dependencies ok; there's no possibility of conflicts as my folder is empty; my PC has enough RAM and HD memory (game run smoothly with a 2GB plugin folder). I'm just a bit afraid about my graphics card - it's an onboard Intel GMA 3100
(Yeah, I know I should change it just asap hehe :-[ ) 


 Well, I've been considering reporting it here for a while now, as I wasn't able to solve my issue. Any ideas? Any help?
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on August 05, 2013, 02:13:46 PM
Sorry to hear about the crashes. Couple of questions.

- which controller are you using exactly? 
- does it occur in a new or an established city (or both)?
- does it occur on software rendering too? (you'll probably need to temporarily remove the SV mod to try this)
- have you used either the 'flora:off' or 'flora:on' cheat? If so, could you try switching it on/off/on before planting trees? If not, try the same anyway. Dunno if it'll do anything but can't hurt to try, right?!

On a sidenote, I've re-dubbed the thread to the official Arden Tree Controller Help Desk. Also open for any other tree controller related troubles for that matter.  :)
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: epicblunder on August 05, 2013, 02:55:41 PM
I'm also having the edge crash while planting trees

One of the causes for this is playing a game that isn't fully updated, and updating your game version to at lest 1.1.6.38 (1.6.40 is preferable) can fix it.

edit:  and i forgot, also Diggis said adding the CPU tag when using a multicore is another possible fix, if your game is already updated.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on August 05, 2013, 02:56:45 PM
One of the causes for this is playing a game that isn't fully updated, and updating your game version to at lest 1.1.6.38 (1.6.40 is preferable) can fix it.

edit:  and i forgot, also Diggis said adding the CPU tag when using a multicore is another possible fix, if your game is already updated.

Thanks I forgot about that and most likely either one of those issues is the real culprit. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: fe_lipe on August 08, 2013, 02:50:08 PM

One of the causes for this is playing a game that isn't fully updated, and updating your game version to at lest 1.1.6.38 (1.6.40 is preferable) can fix it.


Sorry to hear about the crashes.

Yay! As epicblunder said, my .exe wasn't updated. I tested it now and bah-dah: works fine!  :thumbsup:

Thank you guys for the attention! Vortext, congrats for this wonderful work you made, you rock.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on August 10, 2013, 08:12:30 AM
Thanks! And glad to hear the crashes are resolved!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Jack_wilds on August 10, 2013, 02:53:42 PM

One of the causes for this is playing a game that isn't fully updated, and updating your game version to at lest 1.1.6.38 (1.6.40 is preferable) can fix it.


where can the update  1.6.40 be found  ??? and is it worth adding...  %confuso
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on August 10, 2013, 03:01:36 PM

One of the causes for this is playing a game that isn't fully updated, and updating your game version to at lest 1.1.6.38 (1.6.40 is preferable) can fix it.


where can the update  1.6.40 be found  ??? and is it worth adding...  %confuso

iirc the digital copy via Steam is version 1.6.40. Not sure though.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: standop on August 12, 2013, 02:05:55 AM
Once more: Thanks for the great work in your tree controller! Yet, autumn tree models do not appear in seasonal change on my setup. You were talking about a winter patch which might cause this problem?! What is this? Never heard of this before :-(
Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Indiana Joe on August 12, 2013, 02:10:52 PM
Among the optional files of the Aerden mod is a Winter Patch which fixes the shadows of winter tree models.  It is not intended to be kept in your plugins folder, as it messes up the rest of the mod.  You should only have the winter patch file in your Plugins when you want to take a screenshot of winter trees with shadows.  It should be removed immediately after using.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: standop on August 14, 2013, 11:35:41 AM
That's it! Thanks for your help! What I like to add is the following: To me it seems, that the Winter Patch persists to affect all trees which were planted while the patch was in the plugin folder. Removing the patch alone does not help - I had to plant all woods anew.

One more question: All over this thread, you were talking about different brushes for each controller. What do you mean by that? Is it just that different trees are planted depending on the terrain? Or are there really different brushes with certain groups of flora which I can choose in the Mayor menu for example?!

Sorry for bothering. I am just a bit confues ;-)
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Indiana Joe on August 14, 2013, 11:48:52 AM
There are several different files that come with the controller.  They each plant different flora in different patterns via the God Mode tree brush.  I think the choices are Coastal, River, or Inland.  You can switch between them for different flora patterns; just make sure you only have one in your plugins folder at a time.

It kind of sounds like you just put the whole mod folder in your Plugins without checking the readme.  You can't do this with this mod; you have to choose certain files to put in.   "$Deal"$
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: standop on August 14, 2013, 12:46:23 PM
No no no no. Of course I had a careful look at the read-me file (so no missing dependencies and PEG MMP problems) and use only one controller at a time. Thus, I strongly protest against these allegations!  ()stsfd()

Unfortunately the descriptions in the read-me file are not that comprehensive w.r.t. the winter patch and the behaviour of the controllers. So I looked at this thread to get a feeling for the different options. Looking for inspiration, you know... ;-) However, at some points I stumpled across these "brushes". An example can be found in vortext's reply #222: "Started working on auxiliaries; made an outline for the read-me; [...] and lastly made two new brushes for the River controller." Or in reply #250: "There're a few transitions and brushes I'm not quite satisfied with yet but [...]"

So my question remains: What does he mean by different brushes within each controller?
(1) Is it that different trees are planted depending on the terrain (slope, height, etc.)? I.e. that the game automatically varies the collection of trees (aka "the brush") while using the one flora tool in god mode? This is how I observe it ingame.
(2) Or are there additionally different tools in e.g. mayor mode to plop trees independently from the terrain?! I know about planting individual trees. But I am hoping for wider "brushes" to plop certain groups of flora at once. E.g. one brush including different grasses, one for river banks, one with mostly firs, one with leaf-trees... It would be awesome to also have this ability!!!

I hope, my concerns are easier to understand now?!

And thanks in advance  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: epicblunder on August 14, 2013, 02:04:49 PM
(1) Is it that different trees are planted depending on the terrain (slope, height, etc.)? I.e. that the game automatically varies the collection of trees (aka "the brush") while using the one flora tool in god mode? This is how I observe it ingame.

Yes.  A 'brush' is our term for a clustered selection of flora.  For instance, in any of CPs controllers there are 34 'brushes' that appear in the mayor mode menu (such as western red cedar, larch, lodgepole pine, etc. where you click, it drops a tree, you click it again, it cycles to another tree); but there are dozens more hidden ones that only are used by the god mode controller.  Each brush, whether it is enabled to be used in mayor mode or solely in god mode, has something we call a 'flora table' where it can be assigned to be placed by the god mode controller across a variety of terrain and moisture combinations.

Because of how the controller works, each slot in the flora table is assigned to only one item, so on the first god mode placement, it drops the assigned flora item (if there's space and all conditions of the flora are met).  On subsequent clicks it cycles to the next clustered flora item within that brush.  So to answer your question #2: not with the god mode part of it, but you can brush in whatever you want with tree brushes that appear in the mayor menu, which we call MMPs.  If you're new to MMPs, look at the green button at the top of your in-game menu and click the tree.  You should see all kinds of new stuff to play with that showed up if you have all the dependencies for Vortext's controller.

God-mode controllers are designed to cover a large amount of terrain quickly, while MMPs are meant for intricate detail work. 
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on August 19, 2013, 12:29:20 PM
Sorry to hear about the confusion standop. Not to mention the extra work it caused to restore the mess.  &ops

As you found out by now the Winter Patch is meant for temporary usage only which implies you should not save the game while the Winter Patch is present in the plugins folder. However, the Read-Me doesn't explicitly state this as such so my apologies again.

And actually, I ought to thank you as well since I was thinking about releasing the controllers on the STEX. If and when I'll do, however, I'll be sure to rewrite the Read-Me beforehand to clarify this issue. So in a way you can consider yourself a beta tester, albeit unintentional.   ;)

At any rate, regarding the term 'brush'. Since it seems you've spelled this thread front to back I'll quote myself from reply #137 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13223.msg428503#msg428503).

Brush - a bunch of flora items strung together via the Cluster Type property. Think of this as your typical MMP, apart from a few properties. Just less properties actually.

If interested in the mechanics of a tree controller I'd suggest to read the entire post, in addition to these (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13223.msg429269#msg429269) two (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13223.msg429722#msg429722) posts as well.

On a side note, thank you both Indiana Joe & epicblunder. K-points have been ordered.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: epicblunder on August 20, 2013, 09:33:07 AM
On a side note, thank you both Indiana Joe & epicblunder. K-points have been ordered.  :thumbsup:

 :o  Thank you, sir!   ;D
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Indiana Joe on August 20, 2013, 04:25:42 PM
Thank you indeed, Vortext!  :thumbsup:

It's good to hear that standop is a resolute readme reader. ($%Grinno$% No more alliteration, I promise)

One thing I'd like to clarify is: yes, there is one and only one actual "brush" tool.  I do not believe that more brush tools can be made.  But many MMP tools do not plant 'one tree at a time.'  Instead they plop clusters of a few trees, fully grown, so it's somewhere in-between a brush and the Maxis MMP 'one-at-a-time' trees.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: guiloli on September 28, 2013, 08:52:45 PM
Hi i have a problem, I put the STC coast extend and i thought it was oak when I look at yours picture but I got that
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/16/73/80/15/a-27_j10.jpg)
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: APSMS on September 29, 2013, 12:35:45 AM
The tree controller occasionally "borks". Try exiting the game and reloading the city tile to see if that doesn't fix anything. I doubt the problem has anything to do with vortext.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Flatron on September 29, 2013, 04:52:18 AM
This happens to me sometimes, too. I think it's an ID-conflict or something, since I sometimes get these giant trees on sidewalks,too...
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: epicblunder on October 31, 2013, 12:34:32 PM
Howdy Vortext,

I was wondering if you had a tool around that shows the moisture value of tiles that is more accurate than the overlay replacing the health tab by.... i think casper?  Like a custom terrain texture mod or something.  I seem to remember a shot of something like that around here somewhere.

edit:  and yes, it's because you started that itch   %wrd
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on October 31, 2013, 01:52:40 PM
Not sure if it's any different from Casper's file but I use Carl's Moisture-Over-Power data view attached to this post. (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11691.msg344387#msg344387) And my sincere apologies for bringing up the topic.  $%Grinno$%

guiloli, sorry I've missed your post before, at the time I was very busy. Has the issue resolved itself as APSMS says it does? If not, please let me know, I keep a closer eye on this thread now.

On a side note, Flatron and others, I'd like to know more about this whole 'borking' business that seems to happen every once in a while. As I've never had it happen personally, please post pictures when it goes haywire again. I'm intrigued.  ;)
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Swordmaster on October 31, 2013, 02:00:19 PM
It's most likely something on the part of the .exe itself. I've reported this back before you released, Erik. I was occasionally successful in replicating it by alt-tabbing out of a full screen game and back in. Since I've been using windowed mode exclusively for many months now I've never had it happen again (then again, I've not been planting many trees $%Grinno$%).  Not sure if Flatron's problem is related to this, though.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on October 31, 2013, 02:03:15 PM
Since I've been using windowed mode exclusively for many months now I've never had it happen again.

Hm, this might have something to do with it since I play in windowed mode, like, forever. &Thk/(
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: epicblunder on October 31, 2013, 02:05:52 PM
It's most likely something on the part of the .exe itself. I've reported this back before you released, Erik. I was occasionally successful in replicating it by alt-tabbing out of a full screen game and back in. Since I've been using windowed mode exclusively for many months now I've never had it happen again (then again, I've not been planting many trees $%Grinno$%).  Not sure if Flatron's problem is related to this, though.

I've had Alt-tabbing do do bad things with tree controllers and graphics not showing up on a multi-core if you don't have the cpucount tag running.

Thanks for the link!  After doing a little more digging, i found i was thinking of the picture from Gobias' thread on page 2 where he radically colored terrain textures.  Hopefully this little tool will do the trick though and i won't have to resort to that.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Swordmaster on October 31, 2013, 06:03:52 PM
I've had Alt-tabbing do do bad things with tree controllers and graphics not showing up on a multi-core if you don't have the cpucount tag running.

I've had the cpucount tag since back in the days animals could speak, so I'm not sure that's it. In any case I wouldn't worry about it, except maybe sneaking it into a readme somewhere.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: art128 on November 23, 2013, 04:47:53 PM
This is the last thing I can do, ask in this thread.

I'm having some troubles with Aerden controller. It doesn't give me the result it should, at least that's what I think.

I'm using the Sudden Valley Terrain mod. My plugins are cleaned. Just the terrain mod, Aerden and its dependencies ( fresh download), so no, it's not a plug-in conflict. My plugins are in my doc, but I tried with them in program files, same result.

Here are three pictures using Inland. I tried using Coast and river, both normal and extended. To my surprise, they ALL give me the EXACT SAME result. Which according to the readme, shouldn't.

(http://a.pomf.se/n25bq.jpg)
(http://a.pomf.se/t73ew.jpg)
(http://a.pomf.se/z3d2i.jpg)

As you can see, there are a lot of empty spaces in mountains, where there should be trees, or at least some vegetation.
On flat areas, I get this huge dense forest composed of ~three different trees, kinda strange.


Any idea what went wrong?
IF there's anything wrong of course. Which I think there is.


Fresh download, fresh install, clean plugins.....
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: kelis on November 24, 2013, 04:55:51 AM
indeed, I've got the same problem !! Exactly the same problem  ()sad()
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Delecto on November 24, 2013, 05:06:18 AM
Same for me.  &mmm
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: art128 on November 24, 2013, 05:20:32 AM
Runned some test:

- Without Sudden Vally terrain mod (and of course with Lowkee's patch if needed)
- different controller ( extended, normal, inland)

Same result.

Great to know i'm not the only one. This time a solution will be hopefully found....
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on November 24, 2013, 06:35:44 AM
Here are three pictures using Inland.

*snip*

On flat areas, I get this huge dense forest composed of ~three different trees, kinda strange.

Yes, this is strange indeed as the Inland controller doesn't have dense forests near the water. My first hunch is there still was another of my controllers present in the plugins (which would also explain why you got the same results no matter what). Make sure there's only one (1) controller present in the plugins at all times.

As for the first two pictures, they look alright to me. It's been a while though so I don't remember exactly how it's supposed to look. At any rate, Inland and River do not cover the entire terrain. The Inland controller specifically might give quite large, empty stretches depending on the terrain. Or to put it in other words, only the Coast controller will give 100% flora cover.

On a related note, I can't get my game to run in a maximized window anymore. I removed all the shortcut extensions, verified because the intro comes on, however, the game still runs in windowed mode.  &mmm 
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Swordmaster on November 24, 2013, 06:44:07 AM
Well, Art clearly indicated he has a clean plugins folder, so that rules out a controller conflict.

As for the fullscreen problem, add the -f option to your shortcut.


Cheers
Willy
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on November 24, 2013, 06:47:50 AM
Well, Art clearly indicated he has a clean plugins folder, so that rules out a controller conflict.

Maybe I should rephrase: I mean a 'conflict' among my controllers. Though they are compatible with each other, they cannot be used all at the same time.


Edit: full screen works now. I assumed it'd do that by default. Thanks!
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: APSMS on November 24, 2013, 06:48:19 AM
I believe replacing the -w with a -f should run in fullscreen. I unfortunately have not tested tree controller on steep slopes, but this makes me curious to find one to try it on.

-Absalom

EDIT: whoops. Willy got to it before me.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: art128 on November 24, 2013, 07:09:08 AM
Well, Art clearly indicated he has a clean plugins folder, so that rules out a controller conflict.

Maybe I should rephrase: I mean a 'conflict' among my controllers. Though they are compatible with each other, they cannot be used all at the same time.


I always read the readmes, so I know what shouldn't be used together etc.

Also, no. Only one of your controller at the same time.

Perhaps do you want a list of everything in my plugins? Maybe there is a clue somewhere inside the list.

Also, my game is installed through steam, if that could case a problem...
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on November 24, 2013, 07:24:13 AM
I always read the readmes, so I know what shouldn't be used together etc.

I know you do but still: check, check, double check.  :)

Also, my game is installed through steam, if that could case a problem...

Maybe?  &mmm Also, do you play full screen or in windowed mode?

At any rate, I'm baffled with the third picture. That type of forest near water is only used in the Coast controller yet somehow it appears while using Inland. So it seems the game just makes up preference tables? Or mangles up the Flora cluster types? I really don't have a clue at this point. . ()what()

Edit: small succes. After booting about a dozen times in full screen I finally got to see the infamous borking!  :D

Edit 2: even more succes. The borking is caused by a faulty preference table. Something tells me there're more . .   &sly
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: art128 on November 24, 2013, 07:30:49 AM
I run in 1280*720 windowed.

I double checked, triple checked. :)
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: art128 on November 24, 2013, 08:34:32 AM
Willy and I have managed to make it work.

I just put in my plugins, Aerden cost extended and the dependencies ( just the necessary .DAT, not the whole plugin)

And it worked.

Here's a list of things I had in my plug in with it didn't work:

(http://a.pomf.se/j675r.JPG)

And these two
-SimCityLocaleINI_Default_SupportsDisplayingJapaneseTexts.dat
-z_Winter Shadow Patch.dat
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on November 24, 2013, 08:36:52 AM
Glad to hear it works now, I also fixed the borking issue for the Coast controllers on my end.

Looking at the plugins, it's probably the SFBT_CP_Street_Decideous_Trees, iirc Victor had the same issue a while ago.

Also, the z_Winter Patch is solely for cosmetics, i.e. picture taking. Do not use while treeing, nor save the game with the file present.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: art128 on November 24, 2013, 08:41:59 AM
I've probably found what causes my problem.

I've tested again with all the the files I mentioned, didn't work ( another sign that shows it doesn't work: it plants the trees in winter mod, not autumn)
So, I tested with only the Japanesetext.dat and the winter shadow patch. Not working.
Tested without the japanese text.dat, so leaving just Aerden, dependencies, and the winter shadow patch. Not working.

I believe that this is making the whole problem.

Is it supposed to be in the plug ins when planting the trees?
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on November 24, 2013, 08:46:52 AM
another sign that shows it doesn't work: it plants the trees in winter mod, not autumn

Do not use the Winter Patch unless you want to take pictures in winter time with proper shadows!

So, I tested with only the Japanesetext.dat and the winter shadow patch. Not working.
Tested without the japanese text.dat, so leaving just Aerden, dependencies, and the winter shadow patch. Not working.

I don't know what the Japanesetext.dat file is, then again I imagine it's for Japanese characters so it shouldn't interfere. And again, I cannot stress this enough, do not use the Winter Patch while treeing! Maybe I should leave this darn file out when updating.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: art128 on November 24, 2013, 08:49:06 AM
Quote from: vortext
And again, I cannot stress this enough, do not use the Winter Patch while treeing!Maybe I should leave this darn file out when updating.

;)

Would be great if you could say it in the readme, I think it'll prevent more people to do the same error as me. :)
(Not just saying  " for cosmetic purpose " but also " Don't use it while planting the trees!  " or something along those lines)


Going to see with my whole plugins, without the winter shadow patch, to see if it works. :)

Also, it's a bit stupid from myself, as I don't take pictures during winter, I don't need it. :)

Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on November 24, 2013, 08:51:27 AM
Would be great if you could say it in the readme, I think it'll prevent more people to do the same error as me. :)
(Not just saying  " for cosmetic purpose " but also " Don't use it while planting the trees!  " or something along those lines)

Yes I know, especially since you're not the first to run into this issue. . . :-[  I'll update the controllers & Read-Me asap.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: whatevermind on November 24, 2013, 06:25:25 PM
Just to throw a suggestion out there, when you do update, you might want to split the winter file into it's own upload, heavy on the disclaimers. I think that'll save a lot of confusion down the road.

As to the borking, I don't know if I ever did say anything on that, took me awhile to figure out what you guys were talking about, but it's completely normal behavior. The Maxis controllers regularly do it if you alt-tab out of full screen. I haven't seen it nearly as often with custom controllers, but I think that's:
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: xtsigs on February 13, 2015, 09:22:03 AM
Great tree controller. Thanks.

It is causing one annoyance for me, however. I can't get rid of Maxis Palms on R$$$ streets and lots. I use "Sayonara! Maxis Trees," but I've tried every other "no palms" mod I could find. I take the Arden controller out, Maxis palms are replaced. Put it back, the Maxis palms return. BTW, I do load Sayonara after Arden.

I actually want no palms as the seasonal trees don't really look right with palm trees to me.

Thanks, again.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: epicblunder on February 13, 2015, 01:59:10 PM
I take the Arden controller out, Maxis palms are replaced. Put it back, the Maxis palms return. BTW, I do load Sayonara after Arden.

It sounds exactly like Aerden (or something else) is loading after Sayonara.  Although you might think the palm replacer is loading last, you can use Rivit's sc4datanode to check and make sure.  That tool will also tell you which files are overwriting others in case you have multiple things overwriting the palms.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: xtsigs on February 13, 2015, 03:11:35 PM
You were correct. SC4DataNode reported that Arden was loading after Arden even though the Arden Controller was prefixed by "zzz" and the Sayonara Palm Replacement was prefixed by "zzzzz". From what I understood that meant that Sayonara should have loaded after Arden. I prefixed Sayonara with a tilda (~). Windows Explorer displays the directories in the following sequence:

~zzzzz_Sayonara Maxis Trees
zzz_Arden Tree Controller v2

But sc4DataNode now reports Arden loading before Sayonara and the palm trees are correctly replaced.

Of course, the replaced trees are not seasonal.

I've been reading through the dialog in this thread. It seems as if one can overlay multiple controllers as long as they have a common base of some sort. E.g. the various versions of the Arden controller can be used sequentially without bulldozing the trees before swapping them out with one another. I wonder if it would not be easier and more flexible in the long run to create a series of controllers that can be layered by planting in sequence. You might want to plant trees first, then underbrush, then rocks (larger boulders on flatter areas graduating to small rocks on the steeper slopes), then stuff that goes right along the shoreline, or whatever. At first brush (no pun intended), it appears that once one understands the layout of the controller table, then it is just a matter of patience to plug the flora into the proper slot.

Thoughts? I'm willing to work on it (I have several decades experience in software and database development, now retired) if you need it, but I don't want to delve into it if my thinking is flawed. Also, any pointers on how the exemplars break down would be most appreciated. If you need help with drudge work, I'm willing to pitch in.

Thanks again for your help.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Natuurzoon on October 10, 2015, 07:30:15 AM
Hi there,

I know no one has posted in this thread for quite a while and I'm reving it again :-[ , but it does seem to be the right place to post a problem I'm having with this controller.

In several city tiles, the seasonal changes are slowly getting out of sync, shifting several months. I always make sure I plant the trees around late August and at first everything works fine, but then suddenly, it starts to shift as time passes. In two city tiles, the winter trees change to summer trees in May instead of March, and in one city tile that change happens in June.

I hope that there's someone who knows of this problem and it can be fixed, and if not, at least prevented.

Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on October 10, 2015, 08:42:47 AM
Admittedly I neglected this thread for a while, my apologies.



It's the first time I've heard of the issue as you describe it, Natuurzoon. The timing of seasons is controlled by the Flora Tuning Parameters. If you have a modern terrain mod (Lowkee or Gobias) this should be in order, otherwise you'll need the Seasonal Flora Patch (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2612) for the appropriate terrain mod.

If you already have this in place, then another possibility would be that some random plugin inadvertently includes a set of Flora Tuning Parameters, thus overriding the proper settings. For instance, Gizmo's underwater flora comes with a few terrain related files iirc.

I'm also curious: how long have the cities been running for? Or rather how many years after the initial planting does it take for seasons to get out of sync?



xtsigs, your thinking is correct for it's indeed possible to create a set of flora brushes and use them in a iterative fashion, thus arriving at highly customized flora combinations. It's actually how I go about in my own region, and in the past I have given some thought to the idea of releasing a set of brushes. However, I decided against it because it would a nightmare to provide support. See, in order for such an approach to work, you'd need two versions of each brush (enabled/disabled) and constantly swap between the two depending what you're working on. This alone will cause plenty of confusion among average users who just like to 'plug-n-play', so to speak. But here's the real kicker: if you ever, at any time, fail to load a brush already in use (which is a considerable risk given the file swapping) and save the city, you will inevitably end up with CTDs when terraforming the terrain where the brush used to be. And there're no brown boxes or other signs a brush is missing from the plugins. And yes, I had my fair share of CTDs.  ::)

So in short: yes a set of individual brushes would allow superior flexibility and customization far beyond what a single, 'monolithic' tree controller can provide. However, such an approach would need an impeccable tracking system of what brushes are in use, and ideally handle the swapping as well. If you are still interested in the idea, I'm all ears.  :)
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Natuurzoon on October 10, 2015, 10:13:58 AM

It's the first time I've heard of the issue as you describe it, Natuurzoon. The timing of seasons is controlled by the Flora Tuning Parameters. If you have a modern terrain mod (Lowkee or Gobias) this should be in order, otherwise you'll need the Seasonal Flora Patch (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2612) for the appropriate terrain mod.

If you already have this in place, then another possibility would be that some random plugin inadvertently includes a set of Flora Tuning Parameters, thus overriding the proper settings. For instance, Gizmo's underwater flora comes with a few terrain related files iirc.

I'm also curious: how long have the cities been running for? Or rather how many years after the initial planting does it take for seasons to get out of sync?

I have the Missouri Breaks terrain mod and the corresponding flora patch.

As for other plugins, I have a plethora of seasonal tree related plugins actually  &Thk/(. For instance, I have the MMP's of the cascadia tree controller by Blunder (I followed the steps to only get the MMP's, not the actual tree controller).

I didn't pinpoint when it actually started happening in two city tiles, as it started happening a long time ago and I wasn't aware of the issue and thus not paying attention. I did however notice that two days ago, it suddenly shifted in a third city tile somewhere past the 2000 year benchmark. I know one of the affected tiles is well past 2000 years as well, but the other one is closer to 1000 - 1500 years.

Minor shifting however can occur fairly soon after the founding of a city. I noticed that in quite a few tiles the change from winter to summer trees shifts from March to April, but if I just let the game run for another year, it corrects itself. With the major shifts however, waiting for several ingame years doesn't seem to work &mmm.

Hope this gives some more insight.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Mikey Knox on June 18, 2016, 12:08:16 PM
Is it normal that on Complete Flat Ground you just get tiny little Pieces of Trees (Normal Inland)?
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on June 18, 2016, 12:18:11 PM
Yes.  :)

It's by design, the forest density increases with altitude.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Mikey Knox on June 18, 2016, 12:23:08 PM
Then i finally found my Tree Controller, i always wanted one who doesnt just blast everything with Trees  :thumbsup:

Thx
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on June 19, 2016, 06:12:04 AM
Pleased to hear that!  ()stsfd()

Personally I don't like dense forest everywhere either and hence developed the Inland controller for that reason. It's still my main controller to this day, albeit a heavily modified version of it.  :)
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Vizoria on June 19, 2016, 10:51:00 AM
Another cool thing about the Arden Tree controller is that it creates natural grasslands in low to medium elevated areas.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img633/1228/jem2TS.jpg)
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Mikey Knox on June 19, 2016, 01:02:23 PM
How did you do that, mine just places nothing^^ Is this the Coast Extended one?
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: vortext on June 19, 2016, 01:13:04 PM
Yes, the extended versions contain various meadows (also alpine) where the regular version are just empty areas. Since the Inland controller was a bit of a afterthought at the time, and as said previously suited to my own wishes, I didn't bother with an extended version.

However, I made the controllers interchangeable so you could, for instance, revisit the area you showed with River Extended for cattails, poplar and the like along the shoreline. The River controller is even less forest dense btw.

All this tree controller talk, I'm tempted to look up the all HD controller files in the archives but there're already enough WIP folders on my desktop as is.  ::) :D

Thanks Vizoria, I really enjoyed seeing my work play a small part in your fabulous MD.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Mikey Knox on June 19, 2016, 01:16:38 PM
Cool. thx  :)
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Iodyne on September 27, 2019, 08:46:46 PM
Hi, I'm experiencing some sort of issue with the tree controller

So I had been using CycleDogg's CTP07 controller for a while and recently got back into SC4, and with that I've been adding and changing mods. I changed tree controllers over to Columbus Terrain mod which worked fine, but then I wanted to try out Arden, as it seems to be the best tree mod available.  :)

However, I seem to be experiencing some kind of issue. I was running into some terrain/terraforming CTDs, which I can sometimes manage to not have crash by loading another tile first

When I can avoid terraforming CTDs I encounter another problem that seems to be related to the tree controller; I can place some small amounts of trees with the god tool, in small spurts or holding down the tool in the same small spot, but once I start to use the tool at a larger size or over a larger area, it CTD for seemingly no reason.  ()what()
I'm pretty certain I have all the dependencies; I mean if it was dependency based or something wouldn't it just be a brown box? What might cause this (these) issue(s)?
(I removed my rock mod as per PPond's readme. The only other thing I noticed was that the Arden readme listed the birch dependency filename as Grfe_props_pack_birches.dat, which doesn't exist: only Grfe_birches_summer, ..._seasonal, Grfe_props_pack_LE_birches, & ..._MM_birches exist)

It seems I can sometimes avoid this too, I believe by saving before using the tree brush - although it doesn't always help.
I had the least trouble with the River Extended version and the most with Inland
When testing out coastal extended, it seemed to be working fine, but then I terraformed a bit to get some different tree types, didn't save, and went to use the tree tool and it CTD again

Probably the most interesting part is that for all of these the time it takes for the tree brush to CTD is completely different, sometimes immediately, other times 8 seconds in, etc. Sometimes I can use it for multiple long instances and then it will crash after just half a second of using the tool again.

It makes it seem like a memory/CPU issue but it definitely isn't based off the number of trees already placed, and I haven't had this issue in the slightest with other tree mods.

I don't know really anything about how the code in SC4 mods work so I'm quite stumped; all I can do is trial and error. I guess I'll have to go back to Cascadia for now... it's ashame because this mod has a lot more variety and higher quality in flora.


Some info: running Steam version on Mac, using sudden valley terrain mod
I can certainly post more info as needed, such as Plugin folder, crash log, etc.

And here's some pictures I don't know if they'd be useful at all:
https://imgur.com/a/JPB3Id6
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: art128 on September 28, 2019, 02:15:32 AM
did you make sure to remove any tree planted with the previous controller before swapping?
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Iodyne on September 28, 2019, 05:35:09 PM
It's in a completely new region
That's supposed to be enough right?
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: art128 on September 29, 2019, 03:15:25 AM
Hm

Can you try it with only the tree controller and its dependencies inside your plugin folder(s) to see if it still does the same?
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: Iodyne on September 29, 2019, 05:55:18 PM
Okay so I was able to remove everything except for SC4MacInjector (I believe it modified the game code because my game won't run without it. I posted to their tech issues thread to see how to uninstalling that before I have to reinstall SC4 itself)
With SC4MacInjector present it still does not work so I'm guessing it's because of that. I'll update here once I can test without mac injector; don't know how long till he'll respond to that thread, so I'll wait perhaps a day or two before I just try a fresh reinstall.
Title: Re: Arden Tree Controller Help Desk
Post by: andrew13511 on March 23, 2020, 07:34:21 PM
Okay... So I have read this thread but I still can't figure out an answer.  I use the Steam version of SC4.  I have using this tree controller for years with multiple devices.  About a week ago without any additional plugins added, I started having CTD while using the god mode tree brush.  I have taken out all the plugins except for the tree controller and it's dependencies and it still is crashing.  I have tried making it use one CPU but maybe I am not using it right.  Can anyone help me out?
Thanks