(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Fnwmlogo.png&hash=7606714d299754d50d7faf31fa4665110c51f84d)
Download Links and Installation Instructions (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#DownloadLinks) | Optional Addons (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#OptionalAddons) | Tutorials and Guides (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Tutorials) | Frequently Asked Questions (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#FAQ) | Patches/Fixes (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Fixes)
The Network Widening Mod is now included in the NAM itself, as an option. There is no separate NWM download any longer.
OVERVIEWThe Network Widening Mod (abbreviated NWM) is a mod which extends the game's Road and One-Way Road networks through override network technology to create a system of variable width surface streets. In effect, it is the surface street equivalent of the RealHighway (RHW) mod.
The project's first release was the result of over 3 years of effort, which required overcoming a number of technical difficulties and conundrums, including the creation of new Traffic Simulator Plugins to properly handle the NWM, and difficulties with the existing Road Turning Lane plugin. It is now included in the NAM installer as an option.
This Overview Post Last Updated 6/6/2013--Note that it is currently under construction, and the FAQ is outdated and not a reliable source of current information.CURRENT PROJECT STATUSNWM development will be resuming as part of the NAM 32 release cycle.
DOWNLOADSPLEASE NOTE: In order for the actual "Click here to download" button to appear, you must be registered for and logged into the LEX (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/Default.htm). LEX registration is separate from Forum registration.Core FileNEW!!!
Network Addon Mod--Version 31.2 Windows (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=851)|MacOS (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=852)--Updated June 4, 2013
INSTALLATION NOTESOPTIONAL ADDONS[tabular type=4]
[row] [head]Name[/head] [head]Author[/head] [head]Release Date (M/D/Y)[/head] [head]Description[/head][/row]
[row] [data]SFBT Euro Road Textures Mod (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1302)[/data][data]SFBT/NAM[/data][data]09/30/2010[/data][data]mrntrln and riiga's NWM and TuLEPs textures are now included in the main SFBT Euro texture package.[/data][/row]
[row] [data]NWM TollBooth Pack (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24388)[/data][data]twinsfan14[/data][data]08/16/2010 [/data][data]Toll booths for several NWM networks. Requires
MrSnoopy's Toll Booth Models (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=4003) as a dependency.[/data][/row]
[row] [data]Median for AVE-2 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24822)[/data][data]jackxu[/data][data]09/10/2010[/data][data]Median trees and planters for orthogonal AVE-2. See description for dependencies.[/data][/row]
[row] [data]NEW! Street Side MOD for MAVE-4 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25797)[/data][data]jackxu[/data][data]01/29/2010[/data][data]Provides streetscaping for MAVE-4 network, including lights, trees, benches, and planters. See item description for dependency list.[/data][/row]
[row] [data]NEW! MAVE-4 & MAVE-6 No Grass (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25796)[/data][data]jackxu[/data][data]01/29/2010[/data][data]Gives MAVE-4 and MAVE-6 a "unidensity" sidewalk setup, without grass.[/data][/row]
[/tabular]
TUTORIALS AND GUIDESNWM 2.0 Secret Weapon Revealed--Draggable Transitions by Tarkus
Demonstrates the Draggable Transition technique
[flash=480,385]http://www.youtube.com/v/eZhlw4Vk-a8[/flash]
Sim City 4 Tutorial: How to use the Network Widening Mod (NWM) by ErwinNegentig
[flash=480,385]http://www.youtube.com/v/yPBmx0RL7ts[/flash]
Tuto NWM [HD] by Uzilpolis
Please note . . . this is in French.
[flash=480,385]http://www.youtube.com/v/tBafKVX362M[/flash]
Can't view it on YouTube? Alternate link on
DailyMotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhpkqe_sim-city-4-tuto-nwm-hd_videogames)FAQ1. I can't place the NWM puzzle pieces, and I'm getting a gray mouse cursor or red arrow. What's wrong? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q1)
2. I'm getting an "##Intersection Placement String Missing##" message when trying to plop NWM pieces. What's wrong? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q2)
3. When is the next release coming? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q3)
4. What networks are included? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q4)
5. Why are you using Roads instead of Avenues for the multi-tile two-way networks? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q5)
6. Do these networks allow for full RCI zone access? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q6)
7. Will these networks show up on the Region Transport View? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q7)
8. What about neighbor connections? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q8)
9. What is planned for Euro textures? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q9)
10. Are these networks be able to interface with the RealHighway mod in the first release? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q10)
11. Is this mod compatible with the existing Road Turning Lane (RTL) Plugin? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q11)
12. How are turn lanes implemented? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q12)
13. What are you planning to do with streetlights, traffic signals, and rail crossing gates? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q13)
14. What Traffic Simulator Plugin options are required for the NWM? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q14)
15. What are you doing regarding T-RAM integration? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q15)
16. I am having difficulty using U-Drive-It (UDI) on the TLA networks. What should I do? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q16)
17. Will these networks actually improve capacity or are they just eyecandy? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q17)
18. I've heard rumors of the OWR-1 being switched over to a Street-based OWS-1--what is the current plan on this? Are you getting rid of the OWR-1? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q18)
19. How come cars on TLA-3/5 networks are making left turns and disappearing and cars on OWR-4/5 are going in circles in the middle of the road? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q19)
20. I am getting grass textures colliding into my NWM transitions, creating a weird transition. What is going on here? Have you guys found a fix for this? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q20)
21. If you've managed to increase the capacity on some networks, why is there still no difference between the OWR-4 and OWR-5, the OWR-1 and default OWR-2, and the ARD-3 and NMAVE-4? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q21)
22. What is the importance of equalizing default Road and Avenue capacities with the NAM Traffic Simulator and how does this tie in with the NWM? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q22)
1. I can't place the NWM puzzle pieces, and I'm getting a gray mouse cursor or red arrow. What's wrong?With the improvements to the installer package in the NAM 31.x releases, this once-ubiquitous issue should be virtually non-existent.
2. I'm getting an "##Intersection Placement String Missing##" message when trying to plop NWM pieces. What's wrong?Again, with the improvements to the installer package in the NAM 31.x releases, this once-ubiquitous issue should be virtually non-existent.
3. When is the next release coming?We have no idea. This stuff takes time, and besides, don't you enjoy surprises?
4. What networks are included?There are 13 networks included in the current version of the NWM, including 6 single-tile networks, 5 dual-tile networks, and 3 triple-tile networks.
The 10 "charter" networks are as follows:
[tabular type=4 caption="NWM Types"]
[row] [head]Network[/head] [head]Network Full Name[/head] [head]Tile Width[/head] [head]Base Network[/head] [/row]
[row] [data]TLA-3[/data] [data]Turning Lane Avenue, 3 lanes[/data] [data]Single-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]AVE-2[/data] [data]Avenue, 2 lanes[/data] [data]Single-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data] [/row]
[row] [data]ARD-3[/data] [data]Asymmetrical Road, 3 lanes[/data] [data]Single-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]RD-3[/data] [data]Asymmetrical Road, 3 lanes[/data] [data]Single-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]NRD-4[/data] [data]Narrow Road, 4 lanes[/data] [data]Single-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]OWR-1[/data] [data]One-Way Road, 1 lane[/data] [data]Single-Tile[/data] [data]One-Way Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]OWR-3[/data] [data]One-Way Road, 3 lanes[/data] [data]Single-Tile[/data] [data]One-Way Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]OWR-4[/data] [data]One-Way Road, 4 lanes[/data] [data]Dual-Tile[/data] [data]One-Way Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]OWR-5[/data] [data]One-Way Road, 5 lanes[/data] [data]Dual-Tile[/data] [data]One-Way Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]TLA-5[/data] [data]Turning Lane Avenue, 5 lanes[/data] [data]Dual-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]RD-4[/data] [data]Road, 4 lanes[/data] [data]Dual-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]RD-6[/data] [data]Road, 6 lanes[/data] [data]Dual-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[/tabular]
Here are their capacities after the improvements made in Version 1.1 with the five capacity levels of the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator. These capacities are listed for the full width of the given network, rather than on a per-tile basis. To calculate the per-tile capacity, divide the capacity by the number of tiles.
[tabular type=4]
[row][head] Network Type [/head] [head] Network Width (in tiles)[/head] [head]Classic[/head] [head]Low[/head] [head]Medium[/head] [head]High[/head] [head]Ultra[/head][/row]
[row][data] TLA-3 [/data] [data]1[/data] [data]1500[/data] [data]3000[/data] [data]5000[/data] [data]7500[/data] [data]15,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] AVE-2 [/data] [data]1[/data] [data]1200[/data] [data]2400[/data] [data]4000[/data] [data]6000[/data] [data]12,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] ARD-3 [/data] [data]1[/data] [data]1500[/data] [data]3000[/data] [data]5000[/data] [data]7500[/data] [data]15,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] OWR-1 [/data] [data]1[/data] [data]1800[/data] [data]3600[/data] [data]6000[/data] [data]9000[/data] [data]18,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] OWR-3 [/data] [data]1[/data] [data]2250[/data] [data]4500[/data] [data]7500[/data] [data]11,250[/data] [data]22,500[/data][/row]
[row][data] TLA-5 [/data] [data]2[/data] [data]3000[/data] [data]6000[/data] [data]10,000[/data] [data]15,000[/data] [data]30,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] RD-4 [/data] [data]2[/data] [data]2400[/data] [data]4800[/data] [data]8000[/data] [data]12,000[/data] [data]24,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] RD-6 [/data] [data]2[/data] [data]3000[/data] [data]6000[/data] [data]10,000[/data] [data]15,000[/data] [data]30,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] OWR-4 [/data] [data]2[/data] [data]4500[/data] [data]9000[/data] [data]15,000[/data] [data]22,500[/data] [data]45,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] OWR-5 [/data] [data]2[/data] [data]4500[/data] [data]9000[/data] [data]15,000[/data] [data]22,500[/data] [data]45,000[/data][/row]
[/tabular]
If you have modified your simulator using the Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool (TSCT), multiply the appropriate "base" values by the Network Capacity Multiplier.
3 additional networks will be added in NWM Version 2.0:
[tabular type=4 caption="NWM 2.0 Types"]
[row] [head]Network[/head] [head]Network Full Name[/head] [head]Tile Width[/head] [head]Base Network[/head] [/row]
[row] [data]NMAVE-4[/data] [data]Narrow Medianless Avenue, 4 lanes[/data] [data]Single-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]TLA-7[/data] [data]Turning Lane Avenue, 7 lanes[/data] [data]Triple-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[row] [data]AVE-6[/data] [data]Avenue, 6 lanes[/data] [data]Triple-Tile[/data] [data]Road[/data][/row]
[/tabular]
And their capacities:
[tabular type=4]
[row][head] Network Type [/head] [head] Network Width (in tiles)[/head] [head]Classic[/head] [head]Low[/head] [head]Medium[/head] [head]High[/head] [head]Ultra[/head][/row]
[row][data] NMAVE-4 [/data] [data]1[/data] [data]1500[/data] [data]3000[/data] [data]5000[/data] [data]7500[/data] [data]15,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] TLA-7 [/data] [data]3[/data] [data]4500[/data] [data]9000[/data] [data]15,000[/data] [data]22,500[/data] [data]45,000[/data][/row]
[row][data] AVE-6 [/data] [data]3[/data] [data]4500[/data] [data]9000[/data] [data]15,000[/data] [data]22,500[/data] [data]45,000[/data][/row]
[/tabular]
5. Why are you using Roads instead of Avenues for the multi-tile two-way networks?Dual-tile networks like the Avenue network are not particularly conducive to the puzzle-drag override technology that this project requires. The Road and One-Way Road networks, being single-tile networks, are more modular and flexible in making overrides. In addition, the Avenue diagonals are rather narrow and cause "shared tile" congestion issues, which would not be desirable in the diagonal implementation of some of the wider multi-tile networks.
6. Do these networks allow for full RCI zone access?Yes, as they are built on base networks that allow full RCI zone access. The Turning Lane Avenue-type networks will even allow for zone access across multiple tiles, much as real center left-turn lanes do in real life.
7. Will these networks show up on the Region Transport View?Yes, as they are built on base networks that show up on the Region Transport View.
8. What about neighbor connections?The single-tile Road-based networks will allow for neighbor connectivity just as the base Road network does. The dual-tile Road-based networks act in much the same way as the RHW-4 in the RealHighway mod and full function can be obtained through special "neighbor connector" puzzle pieces.
One-Way Road-based networks, in much the same way as their base network, cannot naturally make neighbor connections.
9. What is planned for Euro textures?mrtnrln and
riiga released their Euro TRM (Texture Replacement Mod) for the NWM and TuLEPs on August 15, 2010. You can pick it up
on the STEX at Simtropolis (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24632).
10. Are these networks be able to interface with the RealHighway mod in the first release?Yes. All NWM networks are able to intersect MIS Ramps and RHW-2s, and be able to go underneath Elevated RHWs. Transitions between NWM and RHW networks are not possible at this time, however, and are planned for future updates.
11. Is this mod compatible with the existing Road Turning Lane (RTL) Plugin?Yes. While we long thought it would not be possible to make the NWM play nice with the RTL, and many previous attempts failed, developments occurring before the initial release in May 2010 changed that.
12. How are turn lanes implemented?With the
TuLEP (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8460.0) system that was released as part of the May 2010 NAM. This new system will allow for more flexible turn lane setups that can be more readily controlled by the end user, and avoid any "RUL code bloat" that might destabilize the rather sensitive NWM networks' RUL overrides.
13. What are you planning to do with streetlights, traffic signals, and rail crossing gates?NWM Version 1.0 includes streetlights, signals and rail crossing gates on all 10 included networks as applicable. The One-Way Road-based networks (OWR-1, OWR-3, OWR-4 and OWR-5) do not include signals on their approaches to intersections due to game limitations. However, TuLEP intersection puzzle pieces are planned that will allow for proper signal functionality.
14. What Traffic Simulator Plugin options are required for the NWM?The NWM will work out of the box with the new "NAM Unified Traffic Simulator", as well as any simulator produced through the new Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool (TSCT). It also works to an extent with Simulators A and B in the Previous NAM Traffic Simulators package, though these simulators are not quite fully optimized for the NWM.
It is
incompatible with the following:
- the old NAM "Standard/Better Pathfinding/Perfect Pathfinding" simulators
- hailman's Variable Route Buses plugin
- The Traffic Simulator file contained in the PEG-SPAM Traffic Plugin
15. What are you doing regarding T-RAM integration?There are no plans at this point, though it's being looked at for the future.
16. I am having difficulty using U-Drive-It (UDI) on the TLA networks. What should I do?UDI difficulties are a side-effect of the crossover paths on the TLA networks, which pops up from time-to-time. They have largely been mitigated with the release of NWM Version 1.1.1, however.
17. Will these networks actually improve capacity or are they just eyecandy?Generally speaking, the game calculates the capacity of traffic networks on a per-tile rather than a per-lane basis.
However, beginning with Version 1.1, the TLA-3, ARD-3, OWR-3, OWR-4/5 and MAVE-6 have all had their capacities increased, as a result of a pathing trick coupled with a slight modification to the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator. This increases the catalog capacity of each of these networks by 25% over their respective base networks. This value was chosen so as to minimize overinflation of capacity on networks with crossover paths, particularly the 3 and 4-tile RHW networks (RHW-6C, RHW-8S, etc.) For more details on the capabilities and limitations of this technology, please see
FAQ Item #21 (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=33176;topic=1200.0#Q21) for more details.
18. I've heard rumors of the OWR-1 being switched over to a Street-based OWS-1--what is the current plan on this? Are you getting rid of the OWR-1?The OWS-1 network is indeed planned for a future NWM release. It is being designed for two main reasons: 1) there have been somewhat regular requests for distinct One-Way Streets over the years, and 2) to differentiate the single-lane one-way network from a functional standpoint from the game's default OWR-2 and the NWM's OWR-3, all of which had the same capacity in the initial NWM release. It will have diagonal functionality through overrides of the NAM's Diagonal Streets Plugin, including the zigzag/stairstep draggable method and the helper puzzle pieces.
The future of the OneWayRoad-based OWR-1 is uncertain. It will remain in the NWM, but there is a good possibility that it will be left "as-is", with no new features being added to it in future NWM releases.
19. How come cars on TLA-3/5 networks are making left turns and disappearing and cars on OWR-4/5 are going in circles in the middle of the road?In the case of the TLA networks, that's how the paths are designed. For two-tile OWR networks, there are crossover paths, similar to those on RHW networks, which may result in cars doing donuts in the middle of two tile OWR networks. Due to some oddities with the default OWR network's "tidal flow system" (the system allowing simple drag conversions to flip the direction of an OWR), the crossover paths end up being bidirectional, and there appears to be no viable way to fix this at this time.
20. I am getting grass textures colliding into my NWM transitions, creating a weird transition. What is going on here? Have you guys found a fix for this?It is the result of the z-fighting settings with your graphics card, and it tends to occur more often with nVidia cards than ATI. The grass wealth textures under these transitions are colliding with the transition itself as a result. Unfortunately, the only reliable fix we've found is to remove the wealthification textures altogether.
21. If you've managed to increase the capacity on some networks, why is there still no difference between the OWR-4 and OWR-5, the OWR-1 and default OWR-2, and the ARD-3 and NMAVE-4?There are limitations to the technique that allowed us to increase capacities on certain networks. Essentially, it involves exploiting a feature in the NAM Traffic Simulator, in which the first value of the Intersection & Turn Capacity Effect value is set to 125%. The capacity of any tile that the game considers an intersection gets multiplied by this value. I was able to ascertain what modifications were necessary to the path files to make a non-intersection tile be seen as an intersection and gain a capacity increase as a result.
The technique does not work in reverse, which is why the OWR-1 cannot be affected--there had been talk at one point of switching it from a OneWayRoad-based network to a Street-based network to provide a better functional justification for the network. If we applied it to the default OWR-2, it would then be indistinguishable from the OWR-3 capacity-wise.
With regards to the OWR-4 and 5, those two networks have a series of "crossover paths" to allow switching between the two tiles, allowing the full width of the network to be used. The crossover paths are already considered intersections by the traffic simulator. The intersection effect cannot be "doubled up", meaning the capacity-increasing trick would be useless in increasing the capacity of the OWR-5.
22. What is the importance of equalizing default Road and Avenue capacities with the NAM Traffic Simulator and how does this tie in with the NWM?In the original, default settings of the Traffic Simulator that shipped with the game, the Road capacity was set to 1000, while Avenue capacity was set to 2500. As these capacities are on a
per-tile basis rather than the full-width, this means that the capacity for a full 2-tile span of Avenue is
5000, 5 times that of the Road network. Not only is this not particularly realistic (adding 2 lanes to a network should, in theory, double its capacity rather than quintuple it), as the multi-tile two-way NWM networks are generally Road-based, this gives the default Avenue an significant advantage over NWM networks of equal width. A TLA-5, with the capacity increase generated with the "intersection pathing trick", would only have a full-span capacity of 2500 (per-tile capacity of 1250), half that of an Avenue. The triple-tile networks would even have less capacity than default Avenues--3750 for the full-span.
Equalizing the Avenue capacity with that of Road was necessary to make the NWM work properly, and to better represent reality.
FixesNWM 2.0.4 Patch, 2/9/2011
Fixes TLA-3-to-Road Draggable Transition wealth texture issues, pathing issues with triple-tile networks, including OWR-3/AVE-6 intersection, plus NMAVE-4-ending-at-MAVE-6 T-intersection, and left-turn issues with intersections adjacent to TLA-7 underpasses (e.g. TLA-7-under-ERHW, El-Rail, etc.).
Attached below. Simply drop in your Plugins\Network Addon Mod\Network Widening Mod folder.[/b]
Yay! I can't wait for this to be released.
I was wondering about a few things... What would the intersections look like? I'm mainly thinking about the street intersections, since those don't use traffic lights, and I was hoping the little gray strip in the middle would be replaced by the TLA or whatnot.
I'm also glad that this is separate from the avenue network so we can have both types of avenues (as I've seen both in use).
You are a transportation genius, Alex! I have to hand it to you, my friend. This is another in a series of phenomenal additions to the game. I can't wait to see more development!
DFire870 and Dustin, thanks for the kind words! :)
Since you asked, here's a pic of how the 2-tile 5-lane version (the TLA-5) looks when intersecting with a street at the moment. I still need to add the stop signs in (via Type-21 exemplar) and some pathing. The wealth-level based textures aren't entirely finished.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F5224%2Ftlastreetintersectionya7.jpg&hash=cc350c9aee4a5018ec6d1a345ddbea0e3e1919c8)
And here's another couple pics of the TLA-7 in action:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F5202%2Ftla7inactionsw5.jpg&hash=ca074ed23898517db546dc1c3c145f9065b61522)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg100.imageshack.us%2Fimg100%2F2879%2Ftla7inaction2dm3.jpg&hash=fc2f7fd64ed0369e2083045fee618388fadc998e)
-Alex
Ah, I was wondering, can we have an ordinary avenue too? :P
Alex,
This is great stuff! I like what's been done so far.
I have a question, is this network the same speed as avenues?
Cheers,
Kevin
Shadow Assassin: An ordinary 6-lane Avenue? That's certainly possible, provided I can find an override that will provide good functionality for that.
Kevin: Thanks! Well, right now, the way it's set up, theoretically, it basically has the same capacity/speed as a Road x2 or x3 (2000 for the TLA-5, 3000 for the TLA-7), which isn't ideal, considering the OWR has a capacity of 2000, and the Avenue 5000. That's easy to fix, though, by changing some values in the Traffic Simulator Exemplar, which is one idea I've been toying around with. I'm still trying to come up with some ideal values for it which would "optimize" TLA performance, which would likely involve eliminating the speed differential between Avenues and Roads/One-Way Roads, and matching their capacity up a little better (which would actually add some realism--the advantages given to OWRs and Avenues is unrealistic in my opinion). The other option would be to do some sort of puzzle drag setup, but the main advantage to this setup I'm currently using is that one can simply widen their Roads to 5 lanes and then 7 by just dragging another Road or two along side it. Hope that answers your question. ;)
-Alex
Good stuff Tarkus ... we appreciate the energy and effort you are putting into this. :thumbsup:
Those intersections look great, Alex! They made me think of something that I'm not sure you've talked about yet, though: How will the other forms of transportation (rails, monorail, etc.) work crossing these? Is that going to create a problem?
Well, if just dragging elevated networks over it would mess up the overrides, it could be done with a puzzle piece.
Colyn and Dustin, thanks for the compliments!
To answer your question, Dustin and bwatterud, it is possible to have the elevated networks cross the TLAs without messing up the override--the RHW has no problem. There's a couple extra lines of RUL coding I'd have to add in to make it foolproof, though. ;) It's pretty much the same deal with any sort of intersection. As far as the TLA-5/TLA-5 intersection, the coding will have to be a little bit different with it.
I should have a little more progress to show a little later . . .
-Alex
Can't wait until these are a reality. There are a lot of areas in my current region that could be made far more realistic if there were a good, realistic 6-lane highway. The screenshots of the road in action look very promising!
Quote from: Tarkus on May 04, 2007, 06:51:01 PM
Colyn and Dustin, thanks for the compliments!
To answer your question, Dustin and bwatterud, it is possible to have the elevated networks cross the TLAs without messing up the override--the RHW has no problem. There's a couple extra lines of RUL coding I'd have to add in to make it foolproof, though. ;) It's pretty much the same deal with any sort of intersection. As far as the TLA-5/TLA-5 intersection, the coding will have to be a little bit different with it.
I should have a little more progress to show a little later . . .
-Alex
I figured that you had it covered, I just thought of it so I decided to ask. Can't wait to see more development!
Maybe yo should add parking on the sides. Can you also do this for street, one ways, and roads? It would be a great addition to the transportation usage in the game. &idea
Well, I figured I'd share another few development screenies now. Since a wider Avenue without the turning lane has been suggested, I figured I'd give it a go. Introducing the AVE-6:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg522.imageshack.us%2Fimg522%2F1306%2Fave61stlook05072007td6.jpg&hash=d6a6b5a2d11580b673790fef430cf4410a491b51)
Right now, I'm producing it through an override which involves placing an OWR next to a TLA-5, so it doesn't prevent the TLA-7 from being built:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg261.imageshack.us%2Fimg261%2F8973%2Fave6tla7comparisonde7.jpg&hash=ed6ac65f1571e4e9537b5d229fabbdd2783db239)
As far as capacity goes, I'm using my own significantly altered traffic mod that equalizes capacity/speed for Roads, OWRs and Avenues, so it has the same theoretical capacity as a TLA-7.
The one issue with the AVE-6 is that actually putting props in the median like the normal Avenues will be extremely difficult. It's a 3-tile setup like the TLA-7, and the median is on the center tile, which means that it cannot touch any zones to activate any sort of zoning or wealth-level effect. It's essentially "roadlocked".
Another couple screens I thought I'd share involve the TLA-5, showing various features of its functionality:
Transit Query showing Freight Truck traffic being able to make a left turn onto the TLA-5 from a farm:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg296.imageshack.us%2Fimg296%2F7203%2Ftla5inactionfx7.jpg&hash=58365b33fa62faa0399ee18f4efa6a7421447182)
Proof that neighbor connections work:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg522.imageshack.us%2Fimg522%2F1518%2Ftla5neighborbw6.jpg&hash=348364badcdda749e08cf0f9229aed5d2397f83e)
And to answer your question godjcjk12, adding parking to the sides wouldn't really work that well. With this modification, one could do a texture mod that draws parking spaces to the side in certain situations, but it would merely be eyecandy. It would be impossible to make it an actual part of the network functionality.
It would, however, be possible to do that sort of thing with a Transit-Enabled Lot, but it would be much farther down the road (no pun intended) before that could be done. It would indeed be possible to transit-enable a lot for the TLAs, but it would be a complicated affair involving a bunch of custom paths.
For those other "standard" networks you're talking about, it already has been done to some degree--there's numerous TE Lots available for download for Streets in particular. Hope that answers your question.
-Alex
Some more fascinating stuff, Alex. The TLA's will be great to use in urban areas, and the Ave-6 will be a good fit for more rural
areas where a center turning lane isn't necessary.
Quote from: Tarkus on May 07, 2007, 07:03:48 PM
Right now, I'm producing it through an override which involves placing an OWR next to a TLA-5, so it doesn't prevent the TLA-7 from being built:
Do you mean, you're literally making an override out of another override? Don't know how you manage to figure all of it out, Alex. Just amazing...
Oh, another thing, I haven't heard anything about the TLR-3 for a while, do I recollect you saying you ran into trouble with it?
Anyway, keep up the excellent progress! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Tarkus on May 07, 2007, 07:03:48 PM
Proof that neighbor connections work:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg522.imageshack.us%2Fimg522%2F1518%2Ftla5neighborbw6.jpg&hash=348364badcdda749e08cf0f9229aed5d2397f83e)
If you can post an image showing that car traffic is willing to use it, I'll be sold. ;) Remember that problem I had with the RHW with the traffic all of a sudden stopping when it was built in-place of a GHW Tarkus? ;)
Looking good, Alex! Every time you post new pictures, I have to pick my jaw up from the floor!
Just dropped by to respond to a few comments.
Travis: Thanks! And yes, that is an override of an override used in producing the AVE-6. In fact, the TLA-7 is also produced through an override of an override. And if I wanted to, I could override the overrides of an override and produce a TLA-9 or an AVE-8. The process can be continued indefinitely. It's theoretically possible to produce roadways with hundreds of lanes this way, though I doubt anyone has that big of a problem with traffic congestion. :D
And as far as the TLR-3 goes, it looks like it will have to be implemented through a Draggable Puzzle Piece setup, similar to the Draggable GLR that will be in the next NAM, so it's a little bit more complicated. Of course, there's some other avenues (no pun intended) that I'm looking at pursuing for it, but it wouldn't be as independent those ways, and would just be a texture replacement on Roads in certain zones/wealth-types.
James (rickmastfan67): You're on. :D I should be able to show some evidence soon. ;)
Dustin (thundercrack83): Thanks! And prepare for some more jaw-dropping, as I've included another pic of the TLA-7:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg91.imageshack.us%2Fimg91%2F9743%2Ftla7inaction3wq0.jpg&hash=7ca4f6f664737be1cc9f78414fc45e3a81254fa0)
-Alex
Tarkus like your work but when you have some time on your hands can you update your fans at simtropolis so can see the work you have done.
Alex,
I hereby proclaim that for you to have a MD OR enter the Picture Contest would be considered cheating, simply because the "look" you are able to produce blows everyone else's away.
Oh, and add me to the list of people who are very, very excited about TLA's.
Cheers,
Kevin
Quote
Dustin (thundercrack83): Thanks! And prepare for some more jaw-dropping, as I've included another pic of the TLA-7:
I'm speechless. That Campus Boulevard picture is outstanding. Every college town in America looks
exactly like that! The TLA is absolutely amazing, Alex!
Yep, I gotta agree. Those shots are beautiful. Great work!
Looking at the road markings; are the 6 lane versions meant to be euro style or standard maxis style?
I'm good either way, but kinda hoping standard.
Thanks for the compliments, everyone! Kevin (BigSlark), that's just too funny. I'm actually a little afraid I'll get banned now if I update Argentum. :D
And Dustin, the college town I'm living in has one of those too, though it actually looks a little bit more like the AVE-6 in most spots. I'm glad to hear you like it.
Phil (pvarcoe), thanks! It may be a little hard to tell, but there is a yellow line on the inside, so it's actually more "US style" than Maxis or Euro style. It's a little too hard to see since it's right next to the median.
And another little development I should also show--some of you may have seen this before. It's the Turning Lane Road, or TLR-3. Basically, the TLR-3 is a 2-lane Road with a consistent center-turn lane. This pic was taken quite awhile ago, and it was produced by simply bulldozing the sides of a TLA-7. I'd like to implement it through some sort of puzzle drag method, though, similar to Draggable GLR, though my earlier attempts to do it failed because I chose the wrong "starting point" for the overrides.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg220.imageshack.us%2Fimg220%2F7861%2Ftlr3onslopesd8.jpg&hash=27768b7b48a41d4a84053fe5baf163c57948057d)
-Alex
Sorry for the double post, but I felt this was worth it.
I'll let the pictures do the talking :D ;):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg237.imageshack.us%2Fimg237%2F6783%2Ftlr3draggingxy5.jpg&hash=2f0637ba6d67c6f00ec79dec608e126b62dfe3ab)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg515.imageshack.us%2Fimg515%2F5200%2Ftlr3inactionzv4.jpg&hash=85985a4bf18ba2c13037fb4d69600958ac59278f)
-Alex
thats just downright wrong takus u posted that! :P im curious as to how the traffic lights will look like perhaps if its possible to make a model for the traffic lights to be horizontal like they have it in some cities or on powerlines....that would really add some realism in our cities!
We're getting closer and closer! Looks great, Alex! I can't wait to see more development!
So, first you astound us with the center turning lanes, and now you get them to be 1 tile wide? It looks great though the lack of a sidewalk will somewhat limit its applicability in some circumstances (though places that would have those lanes wouldn't be the most ideal for sidewalks anyway). I am curious to know however, will this be in addition to regular roads, or will this replace them (and if so, what tool did you use to drag the road)? Second, did I notice you mention something about draggable glr? Does that exist (or were those the earlier attempts you were referring to? Whatever the answers to those questions, well done.
already said it on ST, but that is sooo cool
okay, i know you have a million zillion mod projects underway, but im just throwing this out:
can this be done with streets?
Thanks for the compliments, guys! To answer a couple of questions, Filasimo, well, that could be done, but apparently the traffic signals are very finicky beasts. I've talked with Jan (Swamper77) about it, and he may be helping out.
And Matt (threestooges), to answer your questions, I am planning on squeezing down the center lane a little bit and adding a narrow sidewalk to the edges. Right now that texture is basically lifted directly from the center tile of the TLA-7. The TLR-3 is indeed an addition to the Roads, and does not replace them. Basically, the way the TLR-3 works is that you place a "starter" puzzle piece, and drag a normal Road out of it. Due to some additional coding added into the puzzle piece, it actually converts the Road being drawn out of it into the TLR-3.
That's the same principle used for the Draggable GLR (starter puzzle piece -> drag Elevated Light Rail out of it), which does indeed exist and will be released as part of the next NAM, which is coming out very soon. ;) Basically, with that technology and the override technology used for the RHW, OWR-5 and the other TLAs, it's possible to extend the existing networks almost infinitely, such that you can get them to act as if they are completely new networks.
And yes, Steve (Zaphod), it can be done with pretty much whatever network. ;)
Hope that answers your questions. Thanks again for the feedback--I really appreciate it, and I'll be back with more soon. ;)
-Alex
Wow, Alex, my heart stopped beating for a moment looking at those roads, they're just soooo realistic. :shocked2: Nifty way of implementing it too. :)
Does that mean you could use the same method for any kind of network? Hmm, I always wanted 4-lane roads without a median. ;)
One thing that bugs me though; wherever I've seen TLA's before in RL, they've always had the left turn arrows in the middle.
It might look too close together if you were to add it in to the texture though, the other way is to add it in as a T21 exemplar, and I hear those are difficult. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that suggestion out there. :thumbsup: Keep up the good work. :)
ok i see it all coming together now which gives me a cooky idea if this can be possible....Tarkus since you were able to make the road variations such as the TLA-3 is it now possible to make draggable pedmall tiles which ultimately opens the possibility for a pedestrian bridge? I know some major cities have one and my city of Nashville, TN has a great one that they converted a TLA-3 into a pedestrian bridge that spans over the river see link:
http://www.civicdesigncenter.org/announcements-Shelby.html
Also leads to asking if anyone is working on bridges for the TLA project?
I really like that road... just one question, that will replace the original maxis road? better if thats releases separate could be better. ;)
So, one last question if I may, regarding the puzzle piece that you drag from: will you have to plop a new piece to change the direction or will you just start where the previous part ended?
Filasimo: Thanks for the compliments! Draggable Pedestrian Mall tiles is something that can definitely be done. As far as bridges go, there's probably some logistics to work out, but I'm optimistic it can be done. ;)
HabLeUrG: Thanks! And no, it won't replace the original Maxis Road. :)
threestooges: As far as changing the direction, you'll only have to plop the piece down once to allow the override. You can actually then demolish the piece, and continue dragging Roads out of the stubs from the TLR-3 sections and they'll still convert. ;)
-Alex
I've been just lurking around this topic, but following it with great interest. Now you can imagine my faces when looking at your pictures and reading your notes and descriptions ??? :o ??? %confuso &Thk/( :shocked2: :satisfied: %BUd% &dance &apls :thumbsup:
I think this speaks for itself :P :thumbsup:
Alex,
Any TLA news? Curious minds want to know...even if they are in Central America.
Cheers,
Kevin
Hey BigSlark... I have a feeling it is being held for a undetermined amount of time since the NAM team have given us some teasers about a new release. Maybe Tarkus since hes part of the NAM team is helping out on the ()stsfd() That would definately be awesome if we could get a new NAM soon, think about Draggable puzzle piece networks!!
Draggable puzzle pieces will be transferable to NWN and make it much, much easier to implement the TLAs publically. I predict that this project will pick up steam when the new NAM is released... Whenever that may be.
Silvio: Thanks for the compliments! That really means a lot to me to see people talking about the project with a plethora of smileys. :D ;)
Kevin: Well, it's been slow-going lately, but there's some interesting things in the works. See my post in the RHW thread [linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=990.80) for a rather big announcement.
And if anyone is wondering what jplumbley is talking about by the NWN (actually, NWM ;)), he's referring to the new Network Widening Mod, of which the TLAs will be a major component. ;) And the next NAM is very, very close--can't give a release date, though. ;)
That is looking beautiful, Tarkus! Looking forward to more! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Tarkus on May 24, 2007, 02:25:36 PM
...And the next NAM is very, very close--can't give a release date, though. ;)
Oh, Alex! How you tease us so! I'll be waiting patiently...but not
too patiently!
Quote from: thundercrack83 on May 25, 2007, 10:45:53 AM
Oh, Alex! How you tease us so! I'll be waiting patiently...but not too patiently!
Well, you won't have to be
too patient, fortunately. If that gives you any idea . . . ;)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 25, 2007, 11:16:45 AM
Well, you won't have to be too patient, fortunately. If that gives you any idea . . . ;)
-Alex
Let me guess, it's going to be released on Memorial Day (tomorrow). Am I right? LOL. $%Grinno$%
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on May 27, 2007, 07:13:00 PM
Let me guess, it's going to be released on Memorial Day (tomorrow). Am I right? LOL. $%Grinno$%
Almost . . . almost. I can tell you the NAM is
not coming out tomorrow. I can also tell you it won't be Tuesday either. :D ;)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 27, 2007, 08:29:12 PM
Almost . . . almost. I can tell you the NAM is not coming out tomorrow. I can also tell you it won't be Tuesday either. :D ;)
It's got to be Wednesday. ;D
if no fireworks tomorrow i would say no later than june 1 which sucks bc if it does launch june 1 ill only have 4 days to mess with it bc ill be in seattle for a week starting june 5 :'(
Not necessarily. $%Grinno$% I haven't given anything away.
-Alex
Looking at that seven lane road made me think of a fake Aston Expressway - a unique stretch of motorway in the UK as it spends a couple of miles as a seven lane single carriageway.
Of course, in the real version, the configuration is usually 3+1+3 (with the centre lane restricted to all traffic, thus the road behaves like a six lane dual carriageway), but during mornings and evenings, tidal flow sets in, whereby overhead gantries change the arrangement to 4+1+2 or 2+1+4.
Somehow, I doubt that would be possible in SC4 without a major rewrite of the traffic simulator (a coding nightmare!) and probably several hundred lines of EXE code as well - so beyond the scope of even the most dedicated BATters.
Alex,
You're frustrating. The Other NAM'ers just lounge around laughing at the peons while you taunt us! No more, no less, despite the fact your modding skillz amaze me.
Cheers,
Kevin
Hey Kevin-
I am indeed frustrating. :D ;) People accused me of taunting quite awhile ago with RHW Development, so I just kind of got in the habit of it. It's all meant in jest, of course. To quote sportscaster Chris Myers [linkage] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Myers), "I kid because I care." In truth, I'm probably just as excited about these mods as you guys are.
And to tease again (I can't help it :D), you really don't have long to wait until certain things happen. It's "Down at the edge, round by the corner", so to speak [linkage] (http://www.yesworld.com/lyrics/CloseToTheEdge.html). :D
And just to take the edge off the teasing, here's a somewhat old pic, which hints at some future developments:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F1206%2Ftla7overrhwpzfd1.jpg&hash=8e25c87b995e4def5b9067244ba1bc3abb13cf37)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 30, 2007, 05:19:46 PM
And to tease again (I can't help it :D), you really don't have long to wait until certain things happen. It's "Down at the edge, round by the corner", so to speak [linkage] (http://www.yesworld.com/lyrics/CloseToTheEdge.html). :D
Darn you, Tarkus $%Grinno$%!!!
Quote from: Tarkus on May 30, 2007, 05:19:46 PM
And just to take the edge off the teasing, here's a somewhat old pic, which hints at some future developments:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F1206%2Ftla7overrhwpzfd1.jpg&hash=8e25c87b995e4def5b9067244ba1bc3abb13cf37)
-Alex
Bless you, Tarkus ;D!!!
You rock Tarkus. Hit me up on MSN tonight if you can. ;)
Well, this is quite interesting! I can't wait to see where this is heading. Great work, Alex, as always!
:cross fingers: please make ramps for those pieces please plase plase!!! :D
Quote from: Filasimo on May 30, 2007, 06:46:36 PM
:cross fingers: please make ramps for those pieces please plase plase!!! :D
I have this very strange feeling you're going to get your wish. I don't know anything for sure (Tarkus doesn't let on much :P), but I have a feeling it's gonna be possible.
Quote from: Masochist on May 30, 2007, 06:22:26 PM
Darn you, Tarkus $%Grinno$%!!!
Bless you, Tarkus ;D!!!
Indeed.
So, when are RHW traffic circles/roundabouts coming? ;D
Cheers,
Kevin
This thread hasn't seen an update in a little bit . . . so here's a sneek peek at some of the textures that may make it into the TLA:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg225.imageshack.us%2Fimg225%2F460%2Ftla5withdoublearrowsvk5.png&hash=f103a66a660b980ef851ba6c7b345b25d9f85743)
Excellent work! Can't wait to see what's next.
A quick question...are there going to be any reflectors with TLA?
Sweeeeeeeet so is TLA close or still far off from a beta?
Quote from: burgsabre87 on June 30, 2007, 08:53:24 PM
This thread hasn't seen an update in a little bit . . . so here's a sneek peek at some of the textures that may make it into the TLA:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg225.imageshack.us%2Fimg225%2F460%2Ftla5withdoublearrowsvk5.png&hash=f103a66a660b980ef851ba6c7b345b25d9f85743)
Very nice!! But I would suggest first fixing the street intersection. ;)
Ryan (burgsabre87): Those textures are looking awesome as always! There's only one thing I might change with the diagonals with the yellow striping in the center. I'd maybe consider doing a dual-solid line or a left turn lane (where applicable) at the diagonal intersections. Otherwise, they are truly fantastic.
Kevin (BigSlark): That's an interesting idea--something we haven't really talked about, but it could make a nice addition.
Pat (patfirefghtr): Well, we still have a fairly long way to go with the TLA. It's still quite far from Beta status. I should be able to pick up the pace when RL calms down.
I did, however, manage to finally get this TLR-3 texture I've had sitting around for the past 2 months into the game. It's suffering from a bit of a tiling issue at the moment, but this should give you a better idea.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg227.imageshack.us%2Fimg227%2F8613%2Ftlr307012007zb6.jpg&hash=8ec49d1e7de65d4753e800ca284dbf34da1a4644)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 01, 2007, 02:19:40 AM
Kevin (BigSlark): That's an interesting idea--something we haven't really talked about, but it could make a nice addition.
I could supply the one I'm using for my RHW pieces with tweaked colors. ;)
Alex and Ryan,
Last night my roommates and I were up to no good (which means we had a craving for Taco Bell at 3 a.m.), and we did a few miles on the TLA's on Jackson, MS. What I noticed is that state-maintained TLA's have reflectors whereas city and county maintained ones do not. I think a survey would be in order from other NWM fans to see what's common in their neck of the woods in order to figure out if reflectors are the norm or an exception with TLA's.
Just my two cents.
Cheers,
Kevin
PS-Damn, I'm good at this in the morning!
hey BS: im thinking that reflectors are found in random cities....where i lived in houston for 3 years their streets had reflectors and even the striping were made with nothing but reflectors....in nashville where i live now only the interstates only have them, when i was in seattle for a week last month they have it everywhere....so im guess its just a matter of where u live that has them on the roads.
burgsabre87: Those textures are fantastic, my friend! Great job!
Alex (Tarkus): The TLA-3s are looking good! I don't see any "tiling issues," but I won't lie to you--I wouldn't know a tiling issue if it slapped me in the face. Great work, as always!
cor that tiling issues is minute... i had to squint to make sure it wasn't my imagination lol
From what I've seen, the NYS DOT doesn't do reflectors on our TLA's.
Alex,
I had to inspect that photo in photoshop to find the tiling!
Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Kevin
The TLR-3 is wonderful, Tarkus.
Not sure which I'm looking forward to most: the next RHW, or this...
-ACE
Patiently Waiting
Oh cool! More important (to me) than the RHW (until the RHW has smooth curves(
This will look great in the industry based city i plan!
Hi Tarkus! I moved here from ST (User: JCarter) because I just couldnt wait to see what you were going to pull of next! Man, you pull so much from the game that its practically a new game...thanks!!!!!! :thumbsup:
Tarkus/Alex:I ;DLOVE your TLA-3 Design. ;D
Here are some Ideas for the TLA-3/5/7/AVE-6:
1 Ramps from SC4 and RHW Freeway
2.You're probaly going to do this. but in case you aren't i'll post it.Transitions from TLA to TLA and TLA to AVE-6
Thanks,
;D SC4luv2 ;D
this is amazing! i can harldy wait. im goign to be stuck to y computer screen when this comes out.
and speaking of rhw are all of these pieces going to be interchangeable with rhw?
and are we still going to have avenue?
and a request to your intersections: since oyu have enough space do you think you could put 2 left turn lanes and a right turn lane in for tl7 and 6?
ps did anyone notice the campus ( spelling boulevarde?) has more lanes than the highwya :p
i think it would be the only thing that has to decrease its size to become a higway :)
This looks absoulutely amazing, I really appreciate the work you guys do! Can't wait for it!
Cool, will be looking forward to seeing them. Keep Up the Great Work &apls.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation)
To all of those looking for an update of the TLA project please refer to my post in the RHW Thread.
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=990.480 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=990.480)
Well, I've been a little quiet on this front, but there's been a lot of "behind-the-scenes" work. I haven't had much to show, but I should have plenty of interesting development soon.
In the meanwhile, here's a look at a narrower Avenue. An AVE-2, to be precise. Of course, even beyond the fact that it's actually built off of a Road puzzle drag, there's more than meets the eye . . . or at least, there will be. ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg400.imageshack.us%2Fimg400%2F1803%2Favenue208202007pd0.jpg&hash=d084ffe626eb470e1899ed160ccd3ce677ce7464)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Amazing work Alex. Makes me wonder, how many more new networks have you made that you've neglected to tell us about? :D
I'll be looking forward to more. :thumbsup:
awesomness! &apls :thumbsup:
Just 1 suggestion on the turnlane when it meets and avenue, try curving the yellow line like the center divider on the curretn NAM
Keep it up!
Hello, there, Alex! That AVE-2 looks amazing! Absolutely amazing! I'll be looking forward to seeing more!
That is looking fantastic, Tarkus! :thumbsup:
Another example of the infinite win your mind contains, Tarkus. I was hoping for something like this, and with a tree-lined grass median, it would work perfectly for entrances into parks, fancy neighborhoods and the like.
Ave-2 is great. Nice Job again Tarkus. Seeing this makes me impatient for the release of the NWM. :-\
Looking great, Alex.
Tarkus is so awesome he writes RULs and posts project updates on SC4D in his sleep. :D
Cheers,
Kevin
ave-2 GLR i see it coming....
It'd be useful for a Super-2 expressway setup (divided single carriageway). Looks good. :P
&apls Great job!!! Some of you may remeber me from ST (Tommy7777) and I was woundering if there any estimated date when you think the TLA mod will be out. Thanks
as echoed in what jplumbey said in the other transit development thread:
There are multiple projects of the same type that are ongoing and will be released simultaneously. Keep up on SAM, RHW and TLA to find any progress on these projects and when a release will come.
Stay Tuned!
This is awesome! But I'm one of the most impatient people in the world lol, so hurry up :P
Hi everyone-
Thanks for the compliments and support. :)
I've been working some on the TLA-5, particularly with getting the intersections working. I do have some initial pathing done on them, enough to make them function. They'll still need some stuff added to them.
Here's a TLA-5/Street T-Intersection
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg463.imageshack.us%2Fimg463%2F9397%2Ftla5082520071xd9.jpg&hash=547b6b7bb51391586e2aee32ee78124789fd70a5)
And here's progress on the TLA-5/Road Intersection.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg297.imageshack.us%2Fimg297%2F418%2Ftla5082520072gm0.jpg&hash=c1b16482a3563bdc4fc2c66f01c8e5f22f80d691)
As you can see, it is still definitely a work in progress. The NAM Road Turning Lanes plugin has caused a few complications, but I should be able to get around that. Fortunately, it allowed turn lanes off of the Road onto the TLA, which was a nice bonus. Eventually, my plan is to have the TLA-5 have a left turn lane setup similar to that employed by the NAM Avenue Turn Lanes. The traffic lights and whatnot haven't been added in yet--that will come once I have the rest of the modding stabilized.
I'll be back with more soon. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
That is looking beautiful, Tarkus! Great work! :thumbsup:
Can you make a TLA-3 anytime soon? I think that was the coolest thing ever.
I think you should leave the dotted-dashed yellow lines on street intersections, that's how they always are where I live.
If the gap in the lines is still there, 9/10. With no gap, this whole thing apart from tht road intersection in the last pic is 10/10
Tarkus, Your really doing a great job on the TLA Project, Looking forward to seeing the final product. Just Keep Up The Great Work! :thumbsup:.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!) :)
Quote from: Orange Julius on August 25, 2007, 06:43:31 AM
Can you make a TLA-3 anytime soon? I think that was the coolest thing ever.
Can you actually read rather than ask silly questions?
I think Tarkus has already mentioned that. Read a few pages back for your answers.
And yeah... read all of the posts in this thread before asking questions.
- Allan Kuan
Super awesome work! :thumbsup: I really like the narrow avenue, I was going to request in the NAM thread but there's no need for that now!
-Yoshiisland
The intersections look fantastic, Alex! Excellent work!
Lookin' better and better every time I see progress, Alex! If you need any more help with textures, let me know, eh?
As i said before, those wider avenues will be an excellent idea for my overcrowed avenues I currently have in Steven's Point ;D.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
I personally am following this project with great interest and anticipation. A wider variety of transit networks is something that this game has needed for quite some time. I only wish that I posessed the modding skills to help. Unfortunatly, I'm still a ways from even mastering the game playing aspect, so I must rely on others, such as yourselves, to improve the game for me/us. You must know that this is said with great appreciation. Looking forward to further development.
Well first of all....this is my very first reply on this forum.
And now: straight to the point
Bare awesomeness.....
I can't wait to see this roads in my City...
So my question is...will there be a release in any form in the near future?
This doesn't mean you should hurry .... just do the thing right and not half assed.
Quote from: henryking on August 27, 2007, 03:52:26 PM
So my question is...will there be a release in any form in the near future?
This doesn't mean you should hurry .... just do the thing right and not half assed.
Well, with RL, we never know when we can get stuff done for this. So, as standard NAM Policy response:
It will be released when it's released. $%Grinno$%
Ok thanks and I really like those Intersections, they are cool.
&hlp Tommy7777 &hlp
Great work Tarkus &apls That looking beautiful !
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 27, 2007, 05:05:39 PM
Well, with RL, we never know when we can get stuff done for this. So, as standard NAM Policy response:
It will be released when it's released. $%Grinno$%
Rick i thought that was any teams or individule's response to when is it released lol....
Alex that is looking wonderful and if you need a outside beta tester im willing :D
OK so that is my sneaky way of saying i really want TLA lol..... Either way :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Something I am waiting for. Seems lots of revolutionary mods are just a couple months away....
Quote from: patfirefghtr on August 29, 2007, 01:58:33 PM
Rick i thought that was any teams or individule's response to when is it released lol....
Well, I could have said the most hated word in the NR2003 community of "
Soon". LOL.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on August 29, 2007, 06:37:28 PM
Well, I could have said the most hated word in the NR2003 community of "Soon". LOL.
OT: NR2003? I'm still on N4 over here, and still painting cars! &apls
LoL Rick that is soo true :D
Quote from: burgsabre87 on August 29, 2007, 09:21:22 PM
OT: NR2003? I'm still on N4 over here, and still painting cars! &apls
OT: Ever look at my sig? lol. ;)
Been awhile since I've had anything to report here, but I'm still plugging away on the TLAs. To answer everyone's question about the diagonals on the TLA-3, here's a sample texture. (The compression from the JPEG seems to have degraded the quality some.)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg461.imageshack.us%2Fimg461%2F3092%2Ftla3diagonal1kl5.jpg&hash=4273e3526fbd5629415784fcc64017e9aa8e82de)
-Alex (Tarkus)
very nice but similar to RHW ones. i think it would look better it it was unique.
nice work. keep it up.
Madeira,
The RHW and TLA look the same as all highway striping is very similar in the USA as it based on the United States Federal Highway Administartion's publication theManual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/index.htm).
All roads that are funded with Federal monies are required to follow this standard and most non-Federal roads are striped to the same specifications to simplify the striping diagrams and other assorted materials used by departments of transportation.
As for the color of the asphalt (or bitumen, as you're from the UK), well, that's an entirely different discussion. It has been decided as the closest representation of coloration and wear for North America.
In my area, older (20+ year) asphalt roads have a reddish-brown tinge to them as its very sunny here and the composition of the asphalt is a very regional mix.
I hope this answers your questions.
Cheers,
Kevin
Ooh, diagonals! Looks great, Alex! Keep up the fine work, my friend!
Oh boy, this is just amazing! More realism and variety in our road networks!
Just a question though Tarkus, if you are doing an 6-lane avenue, is it possible to just have it with just a yellow line as the divider, instead of a gap? And by that extension, is there a chance to see a 4-lane avenue without the divider? (Maxis ones feel too fancy with the divider and having all those props, e.g. trees, streetlights inbetween dividing the lanes)
Sober, to answer your question, there are plans for there to eventually be "medianless" Avenues in both 4 and 6-lane configurations as part of the NWM. :) With the code we're developing, it should be fairly easy to port the RULs over to the new mod. Texturing would probably be the only thing that would really need to be done on that end to make it happen.
-Alex (Tarkus)
A Question to ask. When we are finally able to use this new Modd, will we be able to create bridges? I know probably a silly ? but thought I ask ok.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
i hoe we can but if we cant whast the difference between a center turn alne or not on a bridge???
btu tl7 i can understand... mabye it is possible to make a puzzle piece that will change what bridge is mad eor somehtign but this project is good enoguh wihtout it. nice work
There is no point in using a turning lane avenue with a bridge...juse seems like a really dumb thing to do. It is always transitioned into either a divided avenue or a four lane road with opposing directions right next to each other, just separated by a double yellow line (or whatever it is in your country)
except for a tl7? you cant jsut take two lanes away... mabye we can make it use all of the highway bridges and make them look slightly differnt for tl7? after all they are 6 lanes and tl7-1 is 6 :P
A four-lane bridge would be used for TLA-5, and a 6 lane bridge would be used for TLA-7. And they'll probably use the current avenue bridges as those would be easier to convert (I think).
Bridges will be interesting! That is for darn sure.. In fact they may not even be possible, so dont expect bridges for these for a long time.
"Campus Blvd. " looking fantastic! Keep it up.
Bridges are possible. It means cheating a little to get them to do what you want. A TLA-7 should be able to squeeze into 2 tiles, since 1 tile can fit in three lanes. However, there may be slight problems with space for people to walk on the bridge...
JPlumbley, if we can convert a TLA-7 into say, a special avenue bridge with 3 lanes of traffic both ways (maybe we might have to add a new set of bridges, though). For the TLA-5, we can just convert into avenues. TLA-6 would use the same bridge as TLA7 does, since the textures would both be the same.
Is it possible to trigger certain bridges by using puzzle pieces or whatnot?
Can't bridges be made to be selctable in the bridge select menu, like the custom bridges on the LEX.
english by babelfish:
is there already a test version to download?
german:
gibt es derzeit schon eine Version zum testen als download?
Flo8472: Sorry, not yet. The project is still in development. Keep watching this thread for further updates, though.
German with some assistance from Babelfish:
Traurig, nicht schon. Das Projekt ist noch in Entwicklung. Halten Sie, dieses Gewinde für weitere Fortschritten aufzupassen, zwar. ;)
Regarding the bridges: The way the bridge system in SC4 is setup, it would be impossible to make a 3-tile-wide bridge, which the TLA-7 and AVE-6 would need. The limiting factor is the game's inability to draw two bridges, side-by-side on adjacent tiles (there must be at least one space between them). If that limiting factor wasn't there, it would be possible, as there could be some workarounds to allow a proper bridge.
So the only solutions that are possible are the ones Shadow Assassin suggested, with a special Avenue bridge with 3-lanes-per-direction. The other option would be to convert to one of the wider, separable RHWs (8S or 10) for the crossing, as there is a workaround to allow bridges for those networks.
Hope that answers some questions.
-Alex
how abouot transfering the tl7-6 into a highway first then drawing the bridge over? since tl7 doesnt need a center turning lane on a bridge :P this owuld be only 2 tiles and your isms would gety there a bit faster :P. wait do bridges count in commute time?
ssc4k, not a bad point. It's possible to make a new bridge look like a 6-lane Avenue, but the capacity (and speed) would be higher. A puzzle piece at the ends could hide all the Highway stubs and make a smooth transition from the bridge to a TLA-7 or AVE-6. Nice thinking. :)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Quote from: Tarkus on September 28, 2007, 02:38:45 PM
German with some assistance from Babelfish:
Traurig, nicht schon. Das Projekt ist noch in Entwicklung. Halten Sie, dieses Gewinde für weitere Fortschritten aufzupassen, zwar. ;)
LOL, the English-to-German translation is much worse than the other way round. ;)
@Flo: Falls Du nicht verstanden hast, as Tarkus meinte: Die Sachen sind noch in Arbeit, aber Du sollst dieses Thema im Auge behalten. ;)
Quote from: Andreas on September 28, 2007, 03:11:56 PM
LOL, the English-to-German translation is much worse than the other way round. ;)
Somehow that doesn't surprise me. :D Thanks for the better translation, Andreas. :)
And sorry for the bad translation, Flo. :-[
-Alex
QuoteFlo8472: Sorry, not yet. The project is still in development. Keep watching this thread for further updates, though.
Yes i know, but i have seen this in some city journals.
And I thought it's a unofficial download available ^^
......
:)
Flo, what you've most likely seen is a texture mod by ryanb_sc4 (now burgsabre87), which replaces the Avenue textures with the exact textures used by the TLA. That mod has been released (link (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=13923)), and there are quite a number of people using it. Since it is just a texture replacement mod, the center turn lanes are not functional. That's what the TLA project here is intended to fix.
Hope that answers your question. :)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Whoa! I didn't know the textures were released! Thanks for pointing that out, Alex! Now, if you'll excuse me, I must go download them...
@Tarkus
thx
^^ i understand. Yes, its really better with function.
;D I'm wait to the first Beta of TLA
Quote from: thundercrack83 on September 29, 2007, 10:03:01 AM
Whoa! I didn't know the textures were released! Thanks for pointing that out, Alex! Now, if you'll excuse me, I must go download them...
I'd like to point out at this time that the textures I made (that are released) do NOT have the following:
Diagonals, avenue x road / street / one-way road / transition textures. Those will be coming with the TLAs. :)
Okay, we've got the TLA-7. That's three tiles wide. If we eliminate the middle tile (it'd still allow 3 lanes in both directions) by means of a puzzle piece, we could just use two parallel one-way roads with the 3 laned road marking on the bridge. It'd mean making totally new bridges, but would allow OWR-3 (if ever such a mod was released) compatibility.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 01:02:08 AM
Okay, we've got the TLA-7. That's three tiles wide. If we eliminate the middle tile (it'd still allow 3 lanes in both directions) by means of a puzzle piece, we could just use two parallel one-way roads with the 3 laned road marking on the bridge. It'd mean making totally new bridges, but would allow OWR-3 (if ever such a mod was released) compatibility.
Why not just use the puzzle piece to turn it into a Maxis 3-lane highway? Then it could just use the standard highway bridges.
Quote from: simzebu on September 30, 2007, 08:15:07 AM
Why not just use the puzzle piece to turn it into a Maxis 3-lane highway? Then it could just use the standard highway bridges.
Why not do that in addition to making the piece he mentioned? They are going for a holistic approach here after all, with the NWM and MIS. I believe there is an intention to eventually replace (or at least match in function) the Maxis highways with a similar modular system... I mean basically, if you think about it, the RHW combined with NWM capabilities (RHW-6, 8, etc) is a Maxis GHW replacement, if there's some kind of modularity added where you can have barriers and stuff for your urban areas. Maybe make it a separate network, inefficient as that sounds. Might be the only user friendly way though, for getting what you really want. Anyway, the elevated RHW is already being developed, and you combine that with network widening and MIS and BAM! All new elevated highway system. Except modular elevated interchanges sounds impossible so we'd be stuck with big plops, and the current NAM ones would be rendered useless. But I mean, maybe modular's not impossible; you can cross other networks with draggable networks, save that the network you're replacing can cross it, and the ramps don't necessarily have to be pathed as one-way when there's only access to one direction. So that opens up some options. But assuming the ERHW is based off the ANT as well you're gonna have problems from that since you can't control that intersection. Right? Cause it's still just an RHW/OWR (for example) intersection at its core so you'll have cars jumping off the edge of the ramp onto the highway :D So maybe if you did some Big Dig style magic and change the elevated ramp traffic to El-Rail so you could cross it with controlled pathing. You'd have to revert to GRHW, which would slightly limit your options on the ground around it, but no biggie... anyway wow, what was I talking about? :D
delta9, you raise some good questions I can answer. The way the entire transit modding field has gone is toward modularity and draggable extensions through the various RUL Override technologies, so you're right on the money about that. However, there will in fact be elevated modular interchange capabilities, and to complement the draggable ground-level MIS ramps and the draggable ERHW, there will also be draggable EMIS. While the ERHW is based off of the ANT, a grade-separated crossing with the ground RHW will not have any issues with stop paths, since the traffic can't directly cross--the system functions just like any of the in-game elevated networks (El-Rail, Monorail, Maxis El-Highway) in that regard. I'm also planning on doing some RUL rewrites which prevent intersections in which the lack of stop paths on the RHW/ANT would cause problems (mainly some at-grade stuff).
As far as SA's idea of using OWR-3 bridges for the TLA-7/AVE-6, that's a viable possibility--though there will likely be some sort of "totally tweaked out" Maxis Highway bridge which looks nothing like a Maxis Highway bridge.
Hope that makes sense.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Just as long as there's a three-lane-per-tile urban highway with tight lanes and suicide walls so I won't feel too far from LA...
^-^
-Crissa
I don't undersatnd why it isn't possible to make a modified avenue bridge which you can select to build from the bridge select menu?
im not an expert or antything but my instinct tells me that its because that bridge would have to be 3 tiles wide and the widest networks are only 2.. something i think i read from rhw. my guess probably off a little though...
Quote from: Warrior on October 02, 2007, 10:57:16 AM
I don't undersatnd why it isn't possible to make a modified avenue bridge which you can select to build from the bridge select menu?
Well, let me try to answer your question as best as possible here.
There may be a way to do this for 2-tile networks... For TLA-5, I think it is possible to make a bridge with TLA-5 on it, but really what is the purpose? Noone is going to turn left off of the bridge anyways.... It would simply just have to be rendered with the TLA-5 texture on the top rather than the Avenue texture on top.
Now, for TLA-7 or ANY of the RHW bridges, it may be possibe.... These bridges would have to be made separately as a single tile width bridge and rendered in such a way that each portion is a new bridge. This is ALOT of work as for TLA-7 one bridge would in essence be 3 bridges. Then for RHW-4 there would need to be 2 bridges one for the textures going left and the other for the textures going right.
I dont know if this is 100% feasible, but it may be possible. But, lets just say it will be the last thing to be worked on and experimented with, there are many more important things to deal with first. Any bridge modder who wants to take up the challenge, by all means, go right ahead. Just be forewarned it is a shot in the dark to try this.
Quote from: jplumbley on October 02, 2007, 03:07:22 PM
This is ALOT of work as for TLA-7 one bridge would in essence be 3 bridges.
Actually, the main difficulty there is that it's impossible to have a setup with three bridges in a three-tile span, and it appears there isn't a way around it.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Quote from: Tarkus on October 02, 2007, 03:12:11 PM
Actually, the main difficulty there is that it's impossible to have a setup with three bridges in a three-tile span, and it appears there isn't a way around it.
-Alex (Tarkus)
I dont believe you! ::)
I have SEEN with my own two eyes someone drawing a rail bridge in between 2 road bridges.... I need to find that CJ or Tutorial or whatever and wherever it was now... grrr at the search engines!
Quote from: jplumbley on October 02, 2007, 03:24:10 PM
I dont believe you! ::)
I have SEEN with my own two eyes someone drawing a rail bridge in between 2 road bridges.... I need to find that CJ or Tutorial or whatever and wherever it was now... grrr at the search engines!
I think that they used a plopable bridge that had to be made to a specific length to get it to work.
OK now I am disgruntled with this game. %bur2$ I hope your happy Alex! I quit for tonight otherwise I might go $%#Ninj2 and pull out the ?$%kar&%h on this computer. I did my test but I dont have the level bridge mod or anything like that installed, so... its not a you have be proven right... just yet. $%Grinno$%
I do have the slope/bridge mod installed, and I just tested it as well, to no avail. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
well if nones going to use the turn lan on the bridge, which is obvious..., why not just use some highway bridges and make some changes so you can select it in the bridge menu and it has 6 lanes in a differnt texture or somehting like this. after all highway=6 lanes :P
Ahh, yes, I suppose someone could do the hard work to give us three-tile-wide bridges or a way to draw two bridges side-by side...
-Crissa
My guess is that this behaviour is hardcoded into the EXE file.
This limitation is probably because of the 2 tile networks.
As for the TLA-5, it really should be converted back to an avenue and allowed to proceed as a conventional avenue bridge. This would save quite a bit of work, because TLAs are really not necessary on the bridge.
QuoteThen for RHW-4 there would need to be 2 bridges one for the textures going left and the other for the textures going right.
Not necessarily. :P If we use True3D bridges, we really only need one, as they will be drawn in opposite directions. But the key is ensuring that the bridges can react to the overrides and use the appropriate model/texture.
EDIT: Looks like we do indeed need two bridges with different textures. It seems the texture remains the same on both northbound and southbound bridges. If those bridges can be given a RUL override (two identical bridges, but with different texture IDs), only one icon might be needed.
EDIT2: For the modelled bridges, it seems that the model rotates when needed, so maybe for the conventionally modeled bridge, we really only need one?
I know, there are alot of people out there who wonder, why does JPlumbley always say when 'we' (as in Tarkus and I) get our work done on the NWM.... Well now, I finally have proof that I have done something towards the NWM since Alex has been hogging all the showcase time on this. Today and yesturday I worked VERY diligently to get some work done towards the TLA-5 Intersections. Id say I have done pretty darn good!!
Now, what I am about to show you does not have the Road Turning Lanes installed.... This was easier to do without the RTL mod in NAM. I will have to work on that one a little bit longer as there are a bunch more RULs I must write to finish it to be compatible with RTL.
What have I got shown working in this following picture?
1. Both Street 4way and T-Intersection works. (Since this works once I get OWR textures they will work too.)
2. TLA-5 4way and T-Intersection works.
3. Road 4way and T-Intersection works.
4. It is 95% stable, there is one texture that reverts every once in a while... why? I still have to determine that.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg206.imageshack.us%2Fimg206%2F8906%2Ftla5test1dl1.jpg&hash=a60459ca412fa16dbb165bac2d79e78be3a292c1)
Wow! Nice progress here! &apls
Its great to see the TLA up and running! I guess its no longer a texture anymore but rather a fully functional network! Keep it up :thumbsup:
OMG Jp that is stunning work and for once i think you are stealing the lime light lol
Quote from: patfirefghtr on October 08, 2007, 09:36:39 PM
OMG Jp that is stunning work and for once i think you are stealing the lime light lol
Very deservedly so. :) That's some awesome work there, JP. I wouldn't expect any less. :thumbsup: Now we just need to decipher the RTL plugin . . . ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Great work! I'm really glad to see that the TLA part of the NWM is coming into focus.
I have a question and a comment:
Are there plans to implement turning lanes on TLA-TLA and TLA-AVE intersections? Also, what happened the to the road turning lanes that Alex once showed in a TLA-Road intersection.
Also, in my part of the world, short TLA bridges often still have the turning lane width. Some are striped for the turning lane and others have the diagonal yellow stripes to divide the roadway. Just something to think about someday.
Cheers,
Kevin
yes great progress there! :thumbsup:
Just a quick question, but will the TLA-7 take up two or three tiles?
-yoshiisland2
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on September 30, 2007, 01:02:08 AM
Okay, we've got the TLA-7. That's three tiles wide.
always look back into the topic :P
I love that latest update with TL5 project.
Hmm...*squints eyes* from this angle it seems like 3 tiles, maybe I'll go and check back on ST since that's where the project really started.
-yoshiisland2
if SA sed its three tiles its three tiles its not that hard..........
Quote from: yoshiisland2 on October 11, 2007, 05:21:59 PM
Hmm...*squints eyes* from this angle it seems like 3 tiles, maybe I'll go and check back on ST since that's where the project really started.
-yoshiisland2
Hey yoshi, if SA was wrong I would have corrected him. But as it turns out he was right so I dont have to correct him.
With these turning lanes projects. How many lanes will there be? Just curious?
There are 3 versions:
TLA-3 (3 Lanes) one tile wide. This will be a SAM-like override using a Starter Puzzle Piece for the Road Network. This has had some good progress for the RULs and should be part of the first BETA of TLA.
TLA-5 (5 Lanes) two tiles wide. This will be activated by drawing side-by-side Roads. This you have seen the progress in my previous post, I now have taken on the task of re-writing the RTL (Road Turning Lanes) so that it doesnt interfere with the RULs for and of the TLA networks. So the new RTL Plugin has priority over the rest of this mod. TLA-5 should be released as part of the first BETA with TLA-3.
TLA-7 (7 Lanes) 3 tiles wide. This will be activated by drawing a 3rd tile width of the Road Network next to a TLA-5. TLA-7 will not be part of the first BETA release, the RULs for this are quite complicated and will require TLA-5 to be much further into developement.
I hope this has answered all your questions. This is about what I have for an explaination right now.
Mainly this brings up one question.
I know that this roads will be functional....but will they have realistic compacities compared to the other Road's in the game and to each other?
Thanks jplumbley, I'll be looking forward to using the Beta Release when it becomes available. I'll give me some new ideas in starting my city.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
Quote from: henryking on October 12, 2007, 04:57:55 AM
Mainly this brings up one question.
I know that this roads will be functional....but will they have realistic compacities compared to the other Road's in the game and to each other?
]
Well of course, it wouldn't make sense if the capacities matched the capacity of roads and regular avenues... Although the TLA-5 and TLA-3 will probably only have slightly increased capacities compared to their counterparts (regular avenue and road respectively), since the additional lane is only a turn lane.
Quote from: DFire870 on October 12, 2007, 10:33:48 AM
Well of course, it wouldn't make sense if the capacities matched the capacity of roads and regular avenues... Although the TLA-5 and TLA-3 will probably only have slightly increased capacities compared to their counterparts (regular avenue and road respectively), since the additional lane is only a turn lane.
To answer the question of capacity and speed.
The limitation of the game is that we cannot "add" multiple capacities or speed to a network. Each 'base' network has a defined capacity and speed. Now, due to the implementation of the TLA-5 it is going to have the same speed and capacity of the Road network, which in both areas are lower than the Avenue network. Alex has come up with a work around for this to an extent, but it will mean that Roads, OWRs and Avenues will ALL essentially be the same. They will all have the same capacity and speed which makes them essentially the same. They will all look different obviously, but it will allow us to implement new texture variations like TLA-3, TLA-5, TLA-7, AVE-2, AVE-6, Medianless AVE-4 and Medianless AVE-6, much much easier because all the networks will act the same way.
Another advantage will be that we can use the Street network to a fuller extent in our game play. If we up the network Capacity of the Street network it will allow for the streets used in the SAM to be used in a more versitile fashion.
Not to worry guys, Alex and I have been throwing these ideas around for months and have a good plan to work on, it just takes a while to implement everything. You guys are in good hands.
I thought that the commute engine calculates road usage on a per-tile basis. For example, note that on a diagonal avenue, all traffic going both directions gets funneled through the tiles that are completely covered by avenue (the tiles in the middle). If you query a diagonal avenue, the "center" tiles will report all the traffic going in both directions, while the "edge" tiles only show the amount of traffic traveling in their direction. I always thought this was why the centers of diagonal avenues "light up" with congestion on the traffic map well before the orthoganal avenues do?
That being the case, if a TLA-5 is an override of two parallel roads, the commute engine should see two parallel road tiles, and the capacity should exactly double compared to a regular road. A TLA-7, being three tiles wide, should have triple the capacity of a Maxis road. And so on. Unless the process of melding two parallel roads into a TLA-5 makes the game see the two-tile wide network as being only a single tile wide somehow?
Quote from: mott on October 12, 2007, 03:46:13 PM
I thought that the commute engine calculates road usage on a per-tile basis. For example, note that on a diagonal avenue, all traffic going both directions gets funneled through the tiles that are completely covered by avenue (the tiles in the middle). If you query a diagonal avenue, the "center" tiles will report all the traffic going in both directions, while the "edge" tiles only show the amount of traffic traveling in their direction. I always thought this was why the centers of diagonal avenues "light up" with congestion on the traffic map well before the orthoganal avenues do?
That being the case, if a TLA-5 is an override of two parallel roads, the commute engine should see two parallel road tiles, and the capacity should exactly double compared to a regular road. A TLA-7, being three tiles wide, should have triple the capacity of a Maxis road. And so on. Unless the process of melding two parallel roads into a TLA-5 makes the game see the two-tile wide network as being only a single tile wide somehow?
You are exactly right! What I mean by speed and capacity is on a per tile basis. So, you will have for example 5000 cars per tile no matter what. If it is a 2 tile wide TLA-5 then you will have 5000 cars per direction meaning a total capacity of 10000 cars for the "entire" network.
If TLA is being built as parallel roads like RHW, does that mean we can have a Turning Lane Road as well?
Or do I need to make some textures?
-Crissa
what like TLA-3 is Crissa?
Quote from: jplumbley on October 11, 2007, 08:15:28 PMTLA-3 (3 Lanes) one tile wide. This will be a SAM-like override using a Starter Puzzle Piece for the Road Network. This has had some good progress for the RULs and should be part of the first BETA of TLA.
If I understand correctly, The TLA-7 means that you'll have 3 Lanes in both directions with a "Center" Lane for turning making it TLA-7 right?
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation)
correct.
yep every number is equivalent to the total number after tla. so tl6 is no ctl tl7 does etc.
though ti would be nice if we could have a tl7b 8 lanes 2 being ctl. you can see 2 ctl on a 2 lane each direction road and if there are 3 lanes on each side having one ctl is making it quite crowded...
really i just want bigger roads lol :P
10th page!!! &apls
Well, has my brother would use to say, in this case talking about TLA, The More, The Merrier! I have to say something about these sims though. :)
actually that reminds me will tl7 have 2 lanes per on off ramp when connecting to a highway? though i do wonder how it will look going straight into a two tile highway... and rhw because its so small :p oh just as a joke you should make an end conversion on a street piece so we can have some nice traffic jams. i just realized something very important, instead of being like the other avenue roundabout can these roundabouts have 4 lanes in the circle part? actually ive never heard a mention of roundabout :) also when an intersection comes when there is a left turn lane needed can we have 2 left turn lanes? if a road uses one i think something with 3 times the lanes should at least have 2 lol :P will tl5 be out in time to be updated with the mis before it comes out? is there a rough idea of what the capacity of roads sections of tl5 and tl7 will be and there speed? i hope the big dig makes an update a month or so after tl7 comes out so we can make underground tunnels. of course we wouldn't need a tl5 entrance unless someone was picky about sims not being able to use the center turning lane for 2 tiles lol. are sims smart enough to tell that someones already in the center turn lane were they want to go or will we get a lot of crashes, i really dont care what the answer is on that one :D.
wow i typed a lot... well at least my mind will be quite for a while
ssc4k
Glad to see this topic has reached it's 10th page! Keep Up with the great work on the TLA Project! And all other Projects such TLA, NWM, SAM and etc.... &apls.
Your Friend;
Mayor Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
Wow, wonderful work with this project! I am really excited for the TLA-5!
I just had one question about the pavement markings. Like the RHW, different pavement markings exist in different regions around the world, and I was wondering if different textures could be made to give this network a more international look.
Heres an example from Canada (probably the easiest one to do, just switch the broken yellow line from the outside to the inside!)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mto.gov.on.ca%2Fenglish%2Fdandv%2Fdriver%2Fhandbook%2Fimage%2F2b5_7a.jpg&hash=bc1ce43dac07cc164327b04dbd98299d149821df)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onthighways.com%2Fhwy_10-19_images%2F10_cl_44_north.jpg&hash=e9c8afe51a3446e1879a3ba139eb9fdb2d6e2b8b)
Heres one from the UK
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lmars.co.uk%2Fimages%2Forbital%2Forbital2003%2Forbital12.jpg&hash=b4a3789f5338bc67d430ff0489911fee71de9d5c)
New Zealand (its narrower than a standard lane, but still could be textured)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arizonaroads.com%2Fnz%2Fbig%2FP1001070.jpg&hash=7f5655447d8800420b13b51bbdd3ae972ab54043)
Anyways, those are just some examples. If this could be done, the network would have a better international feel.
Best of luck with this project!
-Haljackey
well why dont we wait until after the projects done and create a bunch of textures for it afterwards so we get it sooner :p that way everyone gets there texture but they tl5 and eventually tl7 first :P reallly if your waiting for tl5 and most importantly tl7 just for the texture....
so anyone who can make nice textures could start on there own texture for it :D and when it comes out upload it to lex :P
QuoteNew Zealand (its narrower than a standard lane, but still could be textured)
That is not a turning lane. It's basically a painted median strip - meaning that you can't use it to turn onto properties and the like (though people still do it). The middle lane is usually marked with a longer and thicker dashed white line - which is most common on tidal flow systems, but can probably be used for turning lanes.
Ok, I'm sorry if this is the wrong question, but from what I understand the concept here, and what it looks like in the pics, has anyone tried the U drive it mode with this, and can tell me if cars and/or trucks crash into them with out stopping when they cross your line of travel to go to some buildings?
Obviously thats something that can be answered, unless your a developer (lol) but would that crash?
I'm anxiously waiting the release of the TLA, so I can update my roads and avenues $%Grinno$%.
You Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
Quote from: Haljackey on October 16, 2007, 04:12:53 PM
Wow, wonderful work with this project! I am really excited for the TLA-5!
I just had one question about the pavement markings. Like the RHW, different pavement markings exist in different regions around the world, and I was wondering if different textures could be made to give this network a more international look.
Heres an example from Canada (probably the easiest one to do, just switch the broken yellow line from the outside to the inside!)
New Zealand (its narrower than a standard lane, but still could be textured)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arizonaroads.com%2Fnz%2Fbig%2FP1001070.jpg&hash=7f5655447d8800420b13b51bbdd3ae972ab54043)
Anyways, those are just some examples. If this could be done, the network would have a better international feel.
Best of luck with this project!
-Haljackey
QuoteQuote
New Zealand (its narrower than a standard lane, but still could be textured)
That is not a turning lane. It's basically a painted median strip - meaning that you can't use it to turn onto properties and the like (though people still do it). The middle lane is usually marked with a longer and thicker dashed white line - which is most common on tidal flow systems, but can probably be used for turning lanes.
What Haljacky Showed (of Tamaki Drive heading to Bastion Point and Mission Bay from Downtown Auckland is what New Zealand calls a Flush Median, they can range in Width from that size for 2 laners to as wide as that american shot for Four Lane Roads. Unlike the Australians Flush Medians are used for cars to enter into safe "zone" if turning into a property or coming from a property and merging back into the main road. However you can NOT over take on Flush Medians
Road Code aside Haljacky feel free to give it a shot as I will very much use it.
Oh back to the Queensland, if I remember right they use flush medians like we do, but there are 2 classes, a single outline like NZ means you can enter it for turning, a double outline means no turning. :o
With flush medians, they use that here in Australia, but they're very rare. They don't have the cross hatching, but I suppose they'd be good as TLs.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on October 20, 2007, 08:21:00 PM
With flush medians, they use that here in Australia, but they're very rare. They don't have the cross hatching, but I suppose they'd be good as TLs.
And you wunder why Kiwis and Aussies get confused on each others roads :D ()testing() :discuss:
Well, yeah.
Come on, join Australia as a state! :P
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on October 20, 2007, 08:41:28 PM
Well, yeah.
Come on, join Australia as a state! :P
How about you joining as the 4th Island? ?=mad)=
LOL
QuoteHow about you joining as the 4th Island?
You're after the sheep, aren't you? :P
Maybe we should stop spamming, though.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on October 20, 2007, 09:36:21 PM
You're after the sheep, aren't you? :P
Maybe we should stop spamming, though.
Yeah, you should stop spamming, because if you don't, we here in the USA will annex ya both as the 51st and 52nd states. :P :D $%Grinno$%
LoL Rick that should be the greatest of greatest threats ever issued to a country...... Stop it or be assimilated
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Femo%2Falien003.gif&hash=5f68236b8a029acac2d7417b08ca0028722fc2ee)Resistance is Futile!!!!!(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Femo%2Falien003.gif&hash=5f68236b8a029acac2d7417b08ca0028722fc2ee)
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on October 20, 2007, 11:57:11 PM
Yeah, you should stop spamming, because if you don't, we here in the USA will annex ya both as the 51st and 52nd states. :P :D $%Grinno$%
Rick, dont ya mean 52nd and 53rd.... Puerto Rico...
Suicide Lanes!! So true!! My neighbourhood has many seniors and (bless their souls) the seniors tend to drive a little further along the center turn lane than is safe, probably because they can't see the entrance to the business/strip mall that they are trying to get to very well.
Quotevistla Reply #104 I personally am following this project with great interest and anticipation. A wider variety of transit networks is something that this game has needed for quite some time. I only wish that I posessed the modding skills to help. Unfortunatly, I'm still a ways from even mastering the game playing aspect, so I must rely on others, such as yourselves, to improve the game for me/us. You must know that this is said with great appreciation. Looking forward to further development.
I'm with vistla. In addition I must admit I'm still figuring out this posting business. Second try with this post as the first one 'disappeared' before I hit the post button. (Isn't there a save message button somewhere around here?) I wonder how dedgren does his fabulous posts? He retrieves images and quotes from all over and carefully formats and organizes each and every post.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fiftiesweb.com%2Ftv%2Fhogans-heroes-2.jpg&hash=d42a3c4588ff7ad567bcc11f45187d00adeb2dab)
I Know Nothing!
QuoteTravis Reply #79 Amazing work Alex. Makes me wonder, how many more new networks have you made ...
Quotemightygoose Reply #87 ave-2 GLR i see it coming....
&mmm &Thk/( Let's see so far we have TLA, RHW, NWM, SAM, GLR and of course the grandaddy of them all NAM! (OK OK I'm showing off. I just figured out those acrynoms (where's the spellcheck?) about 5 mins ago. What the heck is BAM and MIS? Well I need to get to sleep. It's taken me forever to put together this post. This is why I lurk.
&apls &apls &apls
Fabulous effort and I know the results will just blow me away. When will that be BTW? The results, I mean, not the getting blown away part. :D
Quote from: greenbelt on October 21, 2007, 12:28:00 AM
the getting blown away part. :D
I can help you with that part. hehe.. he.. hehe...
OK then, well... ummm... You guys really wanna know? You really wanna know when the next NAM, SAM, TLA, RHW, etc will be ready for release?
Are you sure?... Well ummm... ok.. you asked for it...
The NAM will be released sometime in the future, it could be in the near future, it could be in the distant future. The fact still remains we dont know, there is no "official" due date. Of course we have an idea of when we'd like to bring everything together, at least once before the
SC4D B-day Bash 2008. Once again, its best to surprise everyone, it wouldnt make ya's so ancy if you knew when it was coming out and then it wouldnt blow ya's away if we werent so "secretive" about it, but if you watch the threads close enough you will know whats coming, maybe not when though.
You sly fox... :D
Cheers,
Kevin
Quote from: jplumbley on October 21, 2007, 12:41:13 AMThe NAM will be released sometime in the future, it could be in the near future, it could be in the distant future. The fact still remains we dont know, there is no "official" due date. Of course we have an idea of when we'd like to bring everything together, at least once before the SC4D B-day Bash 2008. Once again, its best to surprise everyone, it wouldnt make ya's so ancy if you knew when it was coming out and then it wouldnt blow ya's away if we werent so "secretive" about it, but if you watch the threads close enough you will know whats coming, maybe not when though.
What your basicaly saying there is...
It will be released when it is releasedJoe
Quote from: star.torturer on October 21, 2007, 02:18:09 AM
What your basicaly saying there is...
It will be released when it is released
Joe
We like to surprise people . . .
-Alex (Tarkus)
Let's just say sometime between now and 2010. That should help narrow it down some, I think. ;)
Thanks for the time scale, *books everyday from now until 31/12/2010 off*
I keep forgetting, is this a new copy of the NAM or just some extra additions to the current one ()what()
Joe
Quote from: star.torturer on October 21, 2007, 05:07:18 AM
I keep forgetting, is this a new copy of the NAM or just some extra additions to the current one ()what()
The NAM won't be longer one single massive 10+ MB download, but it's using a modular approach. This means that the current NAM download will serve as a basic resource package, whereas new content will be uploaded as updates or plugins. The NAM Controller will also be updated during this process, so you might have to download more files than before, but it's not longer necessary to remove all old stuff that might cause problems manually.
ahh ok, i was just wondering about the whole updates thing, i already knew about the modularity of it. Just confirming the whole whats actualy going to be released..
Im guessing thought that maybe in the near future you are going to recode the main NAM file... as of a certain member named Mott rejigging all that stuff.. lol and the RTL re code and all that jazz.
Joe
Well, there isn't a "main NAM file" anymore - it has been broken down into several logical pieces. This makes updating a lot easier. I haven't checked which files exactly mott was changing, but I assume it's mainly the Traffic Controllers (Traffic Plugins) that are going to be modified. For the turning lane stuff, all that needs to be changed is the NAM Controller files, but the resource files can be left untouched.
When I said main NAM file I meant main NAM download... lol cause its getting old...
More NAM stuff is always good. The modularity is nice - I never use stuff like the GLR
yeah, keep feeding us great transportation extensions!
We all know sc4 needs em'! ;)
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on October 21, 2007, 04:59:39 AM
Let's just say sometime between now and 2010. That should help narrow it down some, I think. ;)
I thought we were releasing it sometime between now and 2014. :P
Quote from: jplumbley on October 21, 2007, 12:41:13 AM
I can help you with that part. hehe.. he.. hehe...
OK then, well... ummm... You guys really wanna know? You really wanna know when the next NAM, SAM, TLA, RHW, etc will be ready for release?
Are you sure?... Well ummm... ok.. you asked for it...
The NAM will be released sometime in the future, it could be in the near future, it could be in the distant future. The fact still remains we dont know, there is no "official" due date. Of course we have an idea of when we'd like to bring everything together, at least once before the SC4D B-day Bash 2008. Once again, its best to surprise everyone, it wouldnt make ya's so ancy if you knew when it was coming out and then it wouldnt blow ya's away if we werent so "secretive" about it, but if you watch the threads close enough you will know whats coming, maybe not when though.
Jp you are soooooooo mean lol :D :D
but alas i so love the words of the great and all mighty Ryan "Im working On it" or was it "Coming Soon" err nevermind either way im waiting - pat
@ Pat my saying was "STAY TUNED!!!" :thumbsup:
QuoteI haven't checked which files exactly mott was changing, but I assume it's mainly the Traffic Controllers (Traffic Plugins) that are going to be modified.
He's overhauling the traffic plugins, nothing else will be affected. However, this update will more or less phase out the old traffic plugins, meaning that the NAM team will recommend that the new traffic plugins replace the old traffic plugins. Mott has discovered that the current NAM plugins may actually be causing the game to not work properly in terms of pathfinding and development. This mod should at least reduce abandonment relative to the old plugins, as well as actually improving performance on older systems.
I have been following this project for a while; I'm glad its coming along :thumbsup: :thumbsup:.
One question: are the AVE-6 and AVE-8 still being worked on, or have those been cancelled; I was wondering
Because I had not seen any photos of them in a while. If they are, I would be interested in attemping some
textures for them, although they may not develop for a while (due to RL, I can't visit here often e.g. not on
weekdays).
Thanks to all the modders undertaking this project &apls, and I can't wait to see it when it is completed ;D(although I'm paitent).
RSC18, glad you've been enjoying the project, and to answer your question, the AVE-6 and AVE-8 are still in the works, however, there hasn't been any new development on them in some time. Our focus has been elsewhere, though--getting the MIS ready is my main priority. When that's ready, I can devote more time to this project again. ;)
Hope that answers your question. :)
-Alex (Tarkus)
You guys love to put out major modds at the end of months. Is that not true? i.e. NAM, RHW... so I predict a release for Halloween. And this is for your hard work. &apls
Never predict the release dates... LOL You will only ever be disappointed. I wish that was the case also ;D
But yes I also do appreciate your work greatly... it was the only thing that got me into playing SC4 again
Quote from: debutterfly on October 29, 2007, 09:21:40 AM
You guys love to put out major modds at the end of months. Is that not true? i.e. NAM, RHW... so I predict a release for Halloween. And this is for your hard work. &apls
I gaurentee a release before Halloween 2008.
no plumbey youre keeping their hopes up you know its going to be 2010 to the earliest :thumbsup:
Quote from: star.torturer on October 29, 2007, 09:43:04 AM
Never predict the release dates... LOL You will only ever be disappointed. I wish that was the case also ;D
But yes I also do appreciate your work greatly... it was the only thing that got me into playing SC4 again
Tarkus said sooner than you think...so it'll be a great treat to put in your trick or treat bag if it comes out on Halloween...I'm patient enough to never get disappointed...the modds make SC4 even grander to play though.
if thats the case Alex will release it 2009..... ;)
Sooner than you think? I said that? ??? Oh wait, I did. :D Define "sooner". $%Grinno$%
Thanks for the compliments debutterfly, glad you're enjoying what you've seen here. Unfortunately, nothing on the RHW or TLA is far enough along for a Halloween 2007 release--RL's been beating up on me pretty badly the past week. It's not quite that soon. I was thinking 2011. $%Grinno$% Besides, I haven't even begun my usual teasing cycle. :P
-Alex (Tarkus)
@Alex so i guess your term of sooner means later :D
I guess it does, Ryan. I need time to properly "ramp up" my incessant teasing, if you know what I mean. ;)
The good news is, I'll back with some TLA development screenies later. And by later, I mean sooner than "sooner". In the next couple of days, depending on RL.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on October 29, 2007, 02:09:29 PM
Sooner than you think? I said that? ??? Oh wait, I did. :D Define "sooner". $%Grinno$%
Thanks for the compliments debutterfly, glad you're enjoying what you've seen here. Unfortunately, nothing on the RHW or TLA is far enough along for a Halloween 2007 release--RL's been beating up on me pretty badly the past week. It's not quite that soon. I was thinking 2011. $%Grinno$% Besides, I haven't even begun my usual teasing cycle. :P
-Alex (Tarkus)
2011?? I think anything sooner than Halloween 2015 would be a pipedream with all the textures I still need to do for the RHW system. lol. :D :P
Hmmm...
I dont know where people are thinking we will be releasing a new NAM on Halloween (Tomorrow), we havent even got the TLA fully working, RHW MIS is "almost" ready for pre-BETA, I havent even gotten to the SAM textures I have been given to add and... well, ArkenbergeJoe just made a poll yesturday saying which one would you like first? Then we still have to package and compile everything together. We cant do all that work in the next 24 hours.
We can release a ghost of the NAM on Halloween. :P
Hey now thats an idea... Trick or Treat NAM ghost. Almost like DTs April Fools Vault.
Exactly WHAT would a NAM ghost be? Replacing the Euro interchange model with a skull?
Quote from: nerdly_dood on October 31, 2007, 12:14:14 PM
Exactly WHAT would a NAM ghost be? Replacing the Euro interchange model with a skull?
A joke. A release in which had nothing in it just to play a joke. hehehe...
People have been trying to predict a NAM on Halloween, but it just isnt happening. As I said the other day in the SAM thread, there is still work to be done and it will be a consolidated release of NAM/SAM/RHW, so you guys will be happy.
We would like to participate in the SC4D B-Day Bash... but that has yet to be determined, there is no release date.
Well, whenever it comes, Christmas, New Years, next years New Years, I am sure we will all be happy about it :thumbsup:
Keep up the excellent work!
-Haljackey
Quote from: Tarkus on May 07, 2007, 07:03:48 PM
The one issue with the AVE-6 is that actually putting props in the median like the normal Avenues will be extremely difficult.
That's not a bug, it's a feature. :)
Quote from: mott on October 31, 2007, 02:40:20 PM
That's not a bug, it's a feature.
Nicely said, mott. I couldn't agree more...
&apls &apls &apls
Well, I may be able to work up some sort of new median setup for the AVE-6 and AVE-2, if people are interested. I'm thinking cycledogg trees . . .
-Alex (Tarkus)
Why not use the default Maxis props? I quite like them, especially the medium wealth ones in residential areas. :P
Quote from: Tarkus on October 31, 2007, 03:58:01 PM
Well, I may be able to work up some sort of new median setup for the AVE-6 and AVE-2, if people are interested. I'm thinking cycledogg trees . . .
-Alex (Tarkus)
Hey Alex, I have made a prop family in the NHP Prop Pack Vol 1 for Cycledoggs, single trees. It might be useful for ya.
Quote from: Tarkus on October 31, 2007, 03:58:01 PM
Well, I may be able to work up some sort of new median setup for the AVE-6 and AVE-2, if people are interested. I'm thinking cycledogg trees . . .
Well, you could use the prop family that I created for the SFBT Street Tree Mod. This means you have one prop family, and you can decide which trees show up by installing one or more style plugins. It's basically the same technique that Pegasus used for the "One Flag, Many Nations" mod.
WHOA Release Day Hype and Spam :o
Anycase by the sounds of it work is coming along fine here indeed
Any teaser pics for us to make us drool anymore?
[Gets drool buckets out and sells them for 50c each]
Oh, come on, 50c?
You could make a killing if you gouged people for those buckets! :P
Say, sell them for $3 each, that's $2.52 profit for you!
Think of the business opportunities on the days leading up to the 5th of November...
Wouldnt it be neat if these new modds come out on christmas :D. I'm not saying it wont. But it would make a nice christmas present if it did come out then LOL, But I can wait I have patience ()stsfd().
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!
Merry christmas!
Pictures of all the most complicated stuff you can make with the TLA would be appreciated--pictures of all the curves, intersections, anything that won't show up as whatever network it's based on plz (like how RHW13b shows up as ant)
youre time and patience and support and stopping by this thread for updates would be appreciated as in we will post updates when we post them so stay tuned! :thumbsup:
Just looking forward to seeing all these new projects for solving our traffix problems. Sometimes I ask myself this ? concerning the sims anyways $%Grinno$% :D. Where do these sims get their driver's license from? a crackerjack box :D.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point and Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
[Changes price tag]
I am now charging $5ea for Drool Buckets due to the introduction of the 150% Palpatine Gift Tax and 200% GivePalpatineAllYourMoneyKnow Tax - sorry gotta love the Tax Department
Now then I pass I motion of support and Thanks to the TLA Team for all their hardwork on this project
Can I have a Seconder Please
Further more I would like to pass a second motion for More Pics please
Can I have a seconder for that
After they have been seconded we will take a vote
Now then I wunder what TLA options we might have?
Quote from: Filasimo on November 02, 2007, 04:04:52 PM
youre time and patience and support and stopping by this thread for updates would be appreciated as in we will post updates when we post them so stay tuned! :thumbsup:
need i say more? ;)
Nope, Filasmo...but...just wondering...but...is this still being worked on? It was doing good, but then there were no more updates in ages. Last update was on may 3 I believe...
Actually, Godzillaman, the last update was about a month ago [link] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg79113#msg79113). May 3rd is the day this thread started, and the original post is at the top of every page since the thread is stickied.
The TLA project has sort of gone on hiatus, because our priorities had shifted toward RHW v20 (with MIS :)) and we also needed to revamp the Road Turning Lanes plugin, since the existing one was making our work on the TLA project extremely difficult.
We haven't forgotten about the project though--jplumbley's got the new Road Turning Lane plugin in good shape at the moment, and as soon as things calm down a little on the RHW front, things will pick up quite a bit here.
Hope that answers your question.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Also, did it include Turning-Lane-Road, or was that part of Surpassing-Lane-Road project?
-Crissa
Quote from: Tarkus on November 15, 2007, 02:54:39 PM
Actually, Godzillaman, the last update was about a month ago [link] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg79113#msg79113). May 3rd is the day this thread started, and the original post is at the top of every page since the thread is stickied.
The TLA project has sort of gone on hiatus, because our priorities had shifted toward RHW v20 (with MIS :)) and we also needed to revamp the Road Turning Lanes plugin, since the existing one was making our work on the TLA project extremely difficult.
We haven't forgotten about the project though--jplumbley's got the new Road Turning Lane plugin in good shape at the moment, and as soon as things calm down a little on the RHW front, things will pick up quite a bit here.
Hope that answers your question.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Thanks for clearing things up! :)
thanks man..... take your time so things get done perfectly....
by the way.... is there a review about the transportation systems in Sim City Societies?
Quote from: el_cozu on November 28, 2007, 01:55:57 PM
by the way.... is there a review about the transportation systems in Sim City Societies?
Not that I want to clog the thread, but you have dirt roads and four-laned city roads, and you can plop bus stations and subway stations. There are cars and buses driving around on your streets, and that was it. No traffic simulator, no pathfinding engine, nothing.
WOW.... it really sucks.... but oh well..... no onto the TLA...
thanks man keep up the good work...
I mean, why get SimCity Societies anyway if we have a talented NAM Team? ;D
I agree with JGCarter. but we should keep on topic. i mean, this is DEVO, not simtropolis, since this is the 'headquarters' of the NAM team, we should refrain from talk of subjects other than the thread's topic.
that's right... i'll take some pictures of real TLAs... here in my city (Monterrey, Mexico)
Were i work they kind of like the TLA's, they are actually more functional in commercial areas
In my next post i'll upload some pictures of the TLR-3, TLA5, and TLA7. And you'll see how they would look in SC4 in action.
just edit your post then, no need to double post ;)
In response to the simcity societies traffic question, there is the possibility of changing the roads by modding. Someone made a 6 lane, I believe, but also left a giant gap in between which looks like a car wide lane. I also have seen turn lanes, and regular 2 lanes, but cement, and a boulevard that looks like an avenue. In response, to TLA, how about pathing these?(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2Frightturnlane.JPG&hash=033bcd29de02d27b7be27edb1cbd16a9d6b80833)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FLeftStraightRight.JPG&hash=eb6c223026305abd8998a291b4658514416bc748) ()what()
@j-dub: Those look GREAT but I remember somebody posted something similar but there was a controversy about the "only" being under the arrows. Its like everybody wants the roads in SC4 to look just how their hometown looks. So if you like it, go ahead and path it but just thought I'd give you a heads up ;)
Personally, I'd use it too!
Quote from: j-dub on November 30, 2007, 08:55:51 AM
In response to the simcity societies traffic question, there is the possibility of changing the roads by modding. Someone made a 6 lane, I believe, but also left a giant gap in between which looks like a car wide lane. I also have seen turn lanes, and regular 2 lanes, but cement, and a boulevard that looks like an avenue. In response, to TLA, how about pathing these? ()what()
I no nothing of SCS and will never know anything about it due to the fact I will never buy it.
As for your two images. I have written RULs for a Right Turn Lane for Avenues usings some old textures from Lakeyboy in ST. I have shown a few pictures a while back for this addition. I am planning to expand this to be part of the the RTL (Road Turning Lanes) that I am re-writing and have had some success with. I have been taking a break as of recent from modding because I am too busy elsewhere to get any good modding done. I have been around for advice and brainstorming for other things though.
The right turn lanes will be optional and I have written them only for the Avenue 4way Intersection. These are implemented by using a One Way Road and dragging it in a 90 Turn fashion in the corner of two Avenues. The new Turning Lanes plugin will be bigger and better, we just need time for it to be done. I dont see much modding time for me until Christmas time.
I want this now! My first 1 000 000+ population city has congestion problems getting out of town, and the rest of the Camelot region does too. Could I be a beta tester? What would be the conditions of using it? (Can I use network puzzle pieces with this? This is needed in Camelot now!)
Careful, buddy...we all gotta wait :D
woah easy there boy have a banana while you wait itll calm your nerves :thumbsup:
In order to bring a little realism to y'all's wait, imagine the following:
Your local department of transportation / city officials / etc. mulling over feasibility plans, economic and environmental studies, etc. :P
Quote from: burgsabre87 on November 30, 2007, 11:30:38 PM
In order to bring a little realism to y'all's wait, imagine the following:
Your local department of transportation / city officials / etc. mulling over feasibility plans, economic and environmental studies, etc. :P
QFT. :D
I agree with the others, we all have to wait and be patience. Keep up the great work on this project!!! Looking forward to the final product.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
The problem with pathing right turns for roads, I realize now, is no more pedestrian room on the right. The left straight and right, would require moving the left turn lane a little more to the left and basically modifying it, that the right lane doesn't touch the building. Either way, it may need two squares, the other issue, is the intersection's traffic signals, would need to be moved, but the intersections now wouldn't have room for crosswalks on 1 square. (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FDownTownJoshLand-Feb.28311196446725.png&hash=1f3d7ba619e01a6c4774a95834c59cb5ef67dc94)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FDownTownJoshLand-Mar.19311196443859.jpg&hash=60a4d159019a4cd58890ede5268e0c5d946d6a65)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FDownTownJoshLand-Feb.28311196446416.JPG&hash=b1ee07f60618368a5601100bd397743ee05a170a)
So how about the same concept for one ways? It wouldn't need to be repathed, just retextured right before the corresponding intersection to the painted arrows on the black top. Or is this unrelevant to the tla and for a different thread?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FOnewayLeft.JPG&hash=bcaada1a79f6edcb0b56a024308a02ba78f5be17)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FOne-wayRoadTextureTurnOff.JPG&hash=f5fd95d52ca57d78c0ec23e0cfab17821971a69a)
Patience. That's all I have to say. &mmm
Please.. Relax.. As I stated before, I have been hit by RLS and have no time until xmas. Here are three pics of what you've essentialy requested J-dub, you must realize that this takes tome and it will be released when done right.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg106.imageshack.us%2Fimg106%2F7862%2Fsliplaneshc2.jpg&hash=4e604b36eca415f5405b36aac5f5f922d9bab799)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg411.imageshack.us%2Fimg411%2F8420%2Ftexturerequestsyz4.jpg&hash=858b68d83c7fab31c6b10e9fb8f46f9b3718a24b)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg481.imageshack.us%2Fimg481%2F2880%2Fpathtest1cl7.jpg&hash=87752561689a14635f5a57d6cc630a130a26910a)
thoes are fantastic JP, thankyou ever so much for sharing them with us... OMG there ace
now back to RLS, have a good time and don't rush it, whatever you are doing
Joe
Nice jpulumbley. Would you be able to make those turn lanes with a diagonal AVE or diagonal road intersecting a straight road or AVE.
(Crude format) ==/== or ==//== or --//-- or --/-- like these intersections. First get those RLS taken care of. That's first on anyone's priority list.
Modder's/gamer's priorities:
1. RLS!!!! :angrymore: &cry2
2. Patience ()sad()
3. Perfection ;)
4. Realism :thumbsup:
5. Thankfulness for the NAM team &apls
6. Being SURPRISED about releases! ;D
7. WOWed by pictures! :o
8. Have fun!!!!!!!!! :P
Again. I applaude and thank you for all your hard work.
I will have to emphasize the word "patience". A lot of people are taking as much of their spare time as possible to make these.
Speaking of the word "make", I realize that you are making transit-enabled lots to enable these new network functions that you wish to see in game. Please do not use those. It can screw up the game badly.
Aside from that, there are some good ideas here.
- Allan Kuan
Quote from: jplumbley on December 01, 2007, 10:03:30 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg411.imageshack.us%2Fimg411%2F8420%2Ftexturerequestsyz4.jpg&hash=858b68d83c7fab31c6b10e9fb8f46f9b3718a24b)
Looking good there Jason. :thumbsup: Now all we need is to have the traffic lights to show up on the other sides of the intersections like they do here in North America and the tweaks to the textures to eliminate the pavement textures that aren't needed anymore. LOL. ;)
Jp that is wonderful stuff there... I apprecaite what you do &apls &apls
thanks for the updates guys. those are awesome photos of the turning lanes &apls &apls &apls. Keep Up the Great Work.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
Every time I look at what is going on with this and the RHW/MIS stuff...thanks for the HARD work! %BUd%
jplumbley, those are lookin great, but how does it work? Do the cars pull in up to the crosswalk while the light is still red? And if so, wouldn't this require some sort of yield or stopsign, or maybe changing/adding more signals? You wouldn't be able to see the light after you pull to the crosswalk.
Quote from: j-dub on December 01, 2007, 07:05:25 PM
jplumbley, those are lookin great, but how does it work? Do the cars pull in up to the crosswalk while the light is still red? And if so, wouldn't this require some sort of yield or stopsign, or maybe changing/adding more signals? You wouldn't be able to see the light after you pull to the crosswalk.
Here in Sweden, there's a yield sign in those intersections.
Quote from: j-dub on December 01, 2007, 07:05:25 PM
jplumbley, those are lookin great, but how does it work? Do the cars pull in up to the crosswalk while the light is still red? And if so, wouldn't this require some sort of yield or stopsign, or maybe changing/adding more signals? You wouldn't be able to see the light after you pull to the crosswalk.
Functionality before cosmetics.
Some would say I am more of an engineer before artist and they would probably be right. My goal is to make sure something works and works properly before I put any effort into cosmetics. I took these textures from an existing lot created by Lakeyboy. He had issues quite a while ago with getting this to work properly. I took his textures and have made them work.
Functionality before cosmetics. If it doesnt work, no matter how good you make it look its still a piece of crap.
Jason's right - he takes care of the engineering, and I take care of the cosmetics. I've volunteered to take on the responsibility of getting these right-turn lanes compliant with United States pavement marking standards, and to ensure they'll fit wherever they're used.
I'm going to be starting on the textures probably in the next week . . . . and after that, they're done when they're done.
yes so relax, lurk the forums, have a soda, maybe grab a bite to eat everything is coming along nicely ;)
Hey, if you merely need things rendered, remember that there are those of us that can do that, once you have some of the fidget stuff down.
Maya homework is eating my brain, trying to learn how to rig, but remember there's others about if you need help ^-^
-Crissa
Same here in America: a red triangle with a white interior triangle and the word YIELD in the middle.
so, referring to the first post on page eleven, you guys are going to attempt to have this out by SC4D's second birthday?
Quote from: dragonshardz on December 06, 2007, 10:35:48 PM
so, referring to the first post on page eleven, you guys are going to attempt to have this out by SC4D's second birthday?
Nah, if everything goes as planned, we should have a release out on SC4D's 15th Birthday and no sooner. :P
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 07, 2007, 01:27:45 AM
Nah, if everything goes as planned, we should have a release out on SC4D's 15th Birthday and no sooner. :P
November 2021. Sounds doable. ()stsfd()
-Alex (Tarkus)
Let's not rush these guys with this project. I rather have it done right then yelling at my pc :D $%Grinno$%, because of it crashing during the game :D. Just Keep Up the Great Work Guys! I'm looking forward to the next
update.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities of Sim Nation!)
P.S. I love my new rank :thumbsup:. Councilman. Got that when I hit my 128th post.
The NAM Team should have it's own motto. I like "It'll get done in time not on time." :D Also, how do you go about breaking your elbow Alex? Was it falling out of your chair because you stayed up too late playing SC4. ;) Btw great work and get well. "It'll get done in time not on time." :P
@ Alex november 2021? now were getting too laxed :D i would say itll be released just in time for the next rapture ::)
Let's all remember that this is, in fact, a roadway project. If it were done on time, I'd be very suspicious... ;)
Anyway, I'd suggest we start raising the few million dollars that this will run over budget. ;D
At least the NAM team will do it right, unlike most highway departments. &sly
not rushing, just hoping....patiently.
verrrry patiently.
anyhow, as long as it gets done right, when it gets done doesn't matter.
and isn't the budget more like hundreds of hours? since this is being done for free.
Well, I wouldn't mind earning a few bucks... ;)
/me hides in the corner and develops a budget plan
Budget whats a budget
(Opens the Budget Window in Simcity 4)
:o
OMG!
That can't be right
[See's transit department making a 535% profit] :shocked2:
There must be some kind of evil crime going on, Palp.
@Debutterfly: that sounds like a good idea (but who am I to say so, i'm not a member of the NAM team)
Has anybody noticed this? (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2Fwhydoesthiswork.JPG&hash=b883794d9dee3802ab79ce110658a975b24f3127)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2Fwhydoesthiswork2.JPG&hash=c1f6a6440723eb788dbd32704caa992447e92e5c) It looks like this is the concept of TLA, we all have it, its just it doesn't go well, because of the visual, unless a parking lot appears in front of them. This is the result of a road puzzle piece, it adds turning lanes, they work, but they lead nowhere, and the traffic light, hmmm. Is that why theres this new project? Well could you guys make more things like these pieces, except with stopsigns? Will these still be in the next NAM? Maybe if some other people tried this with the June Nam, to see if I'm not the only one. Its a road on slope doing this, then I delete the slope, then turn lanes.
Dude... I have started work on a new Turning Lanes Plugin, which is a separate project than this thread here. You should post your suggestions in that thread not here. This is the developement of the Turning Lane Avenues.
I have take a much different approach to making Optional left and right turn lanes to networks. It is a much more complicated way of inplementing it but it will avoid any issues with Puzzle Piece CTDs and this is why I have elected to make them an override in the fashion that I have. You will have to wait until I unviel to technique to draw them, but it is much easier than Puzzle Pieces and comes with less hazards.
I have an alpha somewhat ready. I need to do some upgrades on textures and then later for a beta I will need to implement all the extra small things such as variations, extra compatability with other networks. Lets just say... its getting there and will be ready in time you just need to be patient. If you have visited the SAM thread in the psat two days you will notice that some action has been stirred in that thread and things are moving in the right direction.
@ jdub: let the madd modder do his work ;) til then please, sit back, relax, have a banana...or two.... everything is under control so hang tight!
Quote from: Filasimo on December 13, 2007, 08:40:19 PM
everything is under control so hang tight!
That it is. The TLA project has just kind of been on hiatus for awhile since everyone's been heavily entrenched in other projects (RHW v20 for me), and RL. Once I get v20 closer to primetime, the TLA thread will start to pick up again.
And j-dub, no, that's not what this project is about, and I don't know how you could be having that problem, unless you're using stuff in ways it's not supposed to be used, or don't have the NAM installed properly. You may want to reinstall and check the readme. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
J-Dub are you using the t intersection on-slope puzzle piece and bulldozing the sloped piece?
Good eye. I think that's exactly what he's doing.
yeah :thumbsup:congratulations this roads looks like the roads in Los angeles !!!!! continue to improve the NAM $%Grinno$%
Ok, I'm only saying this to answer the question. Thats the thing, it actually may be a good problem too. I have used the road slope and demolished it, and it can get overode with avenues too. An avenue road intersection will be made using the same method, the avenue can get drawn right over 2 road slope puzzle pieces connecting to each other. I'll have a picture or more later. It won't draw the turnlane with the avenue, but it redoes the intersection for the avenue. This method has given me more visual and functional te enabling-working entrances/turning lanes to non transit enabled areas. With that, this potentially opens up a new way to do things, because it works on mine, to me it prooves somehow a turning lane puzzle piece is possible.
j-dub, not sure if you had noticed but we are trying to avoid using puzzle pieces where ever possible and impliment draggable networks like SAM and GLR. This minimises the risk of a desktop crash when hovering over TE pieces and also allows T21s providing more variety. As Jason is able to do this with draggable pieces, doing it with a puzzle piece would be unnecessary.
Yes, with TLA for lots, and a center turn lane road for lots, what I have tried probably won't be done, and even i DON'T think you should make pieces for that, but thats if it wasn't for these projects going on already. I just liked to practice it to see non te driveways function to avenues with cars turning off the avenues, and cars use the left turn lanes on roads to commercial lots, but theres the TLA, so I'm just taking an alternate route, to feel the concept you guys are doing. Landmarks apparently also seem to work with it, odd considering theres no reason logically for cars to turn into them. Speaking of the crash, yes it can be irritating, until why you learn it is like that way. If the hard code was edited, all that does is allows it to freeze instead, for a while. Don't try it. When a game freezes, you have to restart.
The reason why the game CTDs if you hover a puzzle piece over certain transit-enabled lots, is because when a puzzle piece is hovered over a TE piece, the game attempts to calculate the paths for the transit-enabled lot taking in account the puzzle pieces. Except, the game doesn't know which direction these pieces are facing until they are plopped... BAM, infinite loop. Game crashes. I've been lucky in the sense that my game doesn't always CTD when I accidentally do that.
When mine does that, the music goes broken record, it either crashes or gets stuck for 10 minutes. As a matter of fact my game froze today. My problem isn't all transit related, there are times it is. SAM sometimes does, but this ain't about that. When I try to build anything, park or civic, and accidently click twice but while moving, it hates it, and leaves the game, clickingsomething right after when the changing from a close to far view, moving too abrubt, it hates. I can only build stuff in pause mode, it doesn't like it especially on tripple speed, or it kicks me out. I think that does have something to do with transit, because don't all buildings control the amount of traffic on the avenue/road ways, and have to react to time movement?
Sounds to me you have an older computer or not enough RAM for your computer to handle the game with all your plugins. When you get a "broken record" that generally means your computer has hit a max out point and has overrun the buffer like on an MP3.
This is caused by a combination of many things. Yes, NAM Pathfinding Engines have an effect on preformance. this is due to the shear number of calculations it must due. Of course, the game is always running these calculations and if you have "Perfect" or "Better" Pathfinding installed your computer will use more processor time. Other things that add to this is the amount of plugins you have. Lets say you have 2 gb of plugins but only have 512 mb of RAM (for example). SC4 opens every single file you have in your plugins folder to find all you have in the game and stores it in you RAM and Virtual RAM. There are still other things running which use RAM aswell, Windows, other SC4 processes, etc. So, in reality you may have a total of 1 gb or more of plugins that are not completely loaded and the game has to search for them again. The game will remember where it is but will have to reference it, taking up more processor time. So, if you plop a civic building that is not currently "loaded" and you are already straining your computer to its limtis then you may run into the issues you have just described.
AS for your SAM CTD... Well, the SAM Starter Piece is a Puzzle Piece... Like the well documented Puzzle Piece/TE Lot CTD issue you must be careful not to cross paths. Luckily with SAM unlike the old GLR you only need to plop 1 puzzle piece to start the set and then it may be removed after the street has become stabilized. Hence, reducing the CTD issue to almost nil unless you are totally careless with plopping your puzzle piece. This issue cannot be fixed unless MAXIS fixes it and since I dont see them around anymore I wouldnt count on it. Be careful!
Are overrides an issue? I also have been doing some of thisRoad/RHW/Avenue/OneWay all together intersection. The left turn lane appears in front of an avenue, kinda this way. I would not suggest any one else try, it actually is a little more complex. And no the thing across the intersection is not a TE lot, it just is a driveway. I also made this junction with an avenue and road, you all won't be able to, a NAM person might. pics removed for size reasons
Explain... What did you do?? ???
That looks a little strange. You were saying something about a puzzle piece in an earlier post. Have you been playing with the textures in the Reader? Or how has this come to "work"? You've got me interested in what you have done.
I have been overriding puzzle pieces. Well in a way, can a slope piece really be called a puzzle piece? Its a real drag. I mean, once you demolish the slope, it seems like it will do anything, go anywhere. The junction stays, but can be by itself, with nothing attached, then can be paved over, an avenue can go over it, but once gone over with a avenue it will still end up as a junction, even if it doesn't connect anywhere. I still like it like that way to have the option, but to be honest, the one picture with the avenue ending at roads, I don't like the turn to go straight, especially with trucks. I wouldn't have done it like that had the area got built up. Yes it looks like it, but I can't go to the left, with widening the avenue thanks to buildings not pictured a block further.
Yes an onslope is a puzzle piece...
How do you think SAM was created ::)
While that's up, is it possible for a end piece? I mean, where it won't transition anywhere past the point?
Sure... The Puzzle Piece can act as an End Piece, but for what purpose? If you use the Puzzle Piece like is possible with SAM, you will be able to Drag a full new Texture Variant of any network.
Off Topic for a quick sec. j-dub, using PNG format to save those pictures isn't a wise idea at all. They should have been saved as JPG format to keep the file size down. For instance, with this picture of yours (http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9592/friendlyjul607119802387ng2.png) in PNG format, it's 446k. If you would have saved it in JPG format at level 1 compression, it would have only been 63.5k. Not only would you not lost any quality, but you would have saved a ton of space. Take a look at my sig for more info about JPG Compression and why it's your best friend online not only for you, but for others who aren't lucky enough yet to have anything faster than a dial-up connection to the Internet.
Also, here's that picture for you compressed at JPG Compression Level 4. Looks just like the level 1 pic as well as the PNG and is only 41.6k. ;)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv645%2Frickmastfan67%2FSC4%2Ffriendlyjul607119802387ng2_4.jpg&hash=8bc10726bb0a3308227e64051a0c4b073882f89c)
@rickmastfan67-followed advice. On a different note, some people have left hand drive. So do they get full updates with this? Maybe if the signals/signage can be updated? I have no use messing around with those in my case, because I have right hand drive. But on the other hand, I tried this.(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FJoshLand-Jul.7861198774753.JPG&hash=2a63325a0b098801c41c521d3417247b3f0788b7)
Good idea or not? Only did this to one of my avenue intersections, I kinda have a few intersections where I live that have no signal and stopsigns, but they can be a pain in the :o , driving sometimes with everone else there, it can get confussing. I also have seen these in reality where its an avenue cross like this but its just a 2 way, and the right lanes are designated for right turn only. That seems harder.
I have seen an intersection like that here in henderson. It involves a six lane avenue and a four lane avenue, its the only intersection like that so no one knows how to drive it. :angrymore:
Now that's just plain dangerous. If you're going to have a situation like you described, the sides where the traffic has to stop need a setup like this on both sides of the avenue:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg241.imageshack.us%2Fimg241%2F9202%2Fcrosstrafficdoesnotstopdi9.png&hash=d99f62a750d0c28201e560d9a05bc5411ae379cd)
Burgs I like that sign is there a chance we are going to be seeing that one out there??? or is it going to be a prop? cause i would love to get ahold of it... Hey question how would a sign like this work (http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/jf07/8.pdf) or would it???
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg241.imageshack.us%2Fimg241%2F107%2Fstopsigngf7.jpg&hash=74b148577647cc0610716b6b525114bea06f5b0c)
As for the place I described, the area is now experiencing road work, so there is a light. There are actually mess of temporary lights now in the area. Whats not so funny is, they had put up a temporary traffic light, and as I went across, I don't know what happened but the lights' wire snapped off, and fell into traffic, and it was raining. I probably shouldn't show a picture of that. They still were working though. :angrymore: I mean I guess LED lights are nice and bright plus less power for traffic signals. @Pat, I don't think those can get replicated in game, at least not easily, because they are very tiny in reality, the concept of the stopsign for ingame doing that light effect would have to be above standard dimensions. I have seen stopsigns in reality that are 10x bigger than normal in the country that their as wide as the front of a standard car, wish I had some pictures for proof. I have also seen those tiny lights on curve signs as well. Other times, the flashing yellow light or red light may be above signs as well. I think its a lot harder drilling holes in the sign, and then seperate wiring the electricity through them for the tiny LEDs.
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Someone said something about new traffic signals?
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(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg168.imageshack.us%2Fimg168%2F5183%2Ffrontagearterialsignalnj8.png&hash=b84a0ebac9fcf51d545fa3d5d7653a1909f6803f)
Those signals remind of the style Calgary Uses - Two Sideways, and one vertically on the pole. I'm guessing its a just test setup as you ussually wouldnt find a traffic light in the middle of the centre lane....
Not quite, Kitsune. Have a look at this link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/darkhairedgirl/1357645526/
That's what I'm going after.
@burgsabre87 Yeah Man! :thumbsup: You finally have it in game to show off! It looks awesome! Can't wait to see those on the yellow line more, so the car doesn't hit it. I'm sure some people will want these if you'll share, but are you going to remove the regular in game stoplights?
However, I h8 traffic cams! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! :angrymore: :o You may too, because they are growing more and more.
Here's another picture of what I'm trying to emulate . . . . at least for the avenue / one way road intersections:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.houstonfreeways.com%2Fmodern%2Fimages%2F2006-11-25_houston%2FIMG_2451_90a_at_fb_tollway_ramp_2006-11-23.jpg&hash=756338d6ad0b5b39494d40d1be1a2cd4bc4ac85c)
I think it looks dead on for what you are trying to do burgs...
Well, the lowest one is a speed/red light cam (still pictures only), the higher white ones are intersection traffic flow watch cams (generally live feed to central location) and the tiny ones are traffic density/emergency signal sensors, which aren't really cameras, but sense light frequency/brightness/direction for controlling the lights at a further range than the ground sensors.
Whew, that's alot, though. Somewhere near there should also be a vertical cylindrical object, which would be the wLAN uplink to the microwave network that sends the pictures back home ^-^
Anyhow... Pretty awesome. I prefer the simpler non-truss lights, tho.
-Crissa
I reall can't wait for this mod!!
Proof the TLA Project is not dead . . . I know these textures look like something the cat drug in (they're a mish-mash of unmatched old early prototypes I had laying around), but I have proof the diagonals are working. :)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg525.imageshack.us%2Fimg525%2F1382%2Ftla3diagonalsworking010yk9.jpg&hash=faa95271230acdb16639e8117be7d6527b12e838)
This means that all of the RUL code I wrote for the MIS in RHW v20 can be re-used for the TLA-3. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Alex,
Great progress! I can only image the road widen that's going to go in SimSuburbia around the globe when this is released...
Cheers,
Kevin
Quote
This means that all of the RUL code I wrote for the MIS in RHW v20 can be re-used for the TLA-3. Wink
Wonderful news, my friend! This should make your job much easier! I'll be looking forward to seeing more progress on this front!
Well, Ryan, may I remind you that it's two red lights, not two green lights. The signals look great! :thumbsup:
LoL Alex that is does look like something the cat drug in but dannnnnnng its good to know that codeing is going to rather simple then...
Great idea with the new traffic lights!!
Well, it's been awhile since I've had anything to report here--the RHW had been taking up my time, but I needed a little break from it, so I'm back working on the TLAs some more.
This isn't finished yet, but I'm working on getting the intersections RULed such that turn lanes (besides the center turn lane) will pop up at certain intersections:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg153.imageshack.us%2Fimg153%2F4654%2Ftla3012720081ii8.jpg&hash=8fbe843ddeae077388c0f8f62d7d8fdc9c7141e0)
More to come . . .
-Alex (Tarkus)
thats NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *salivates*
I might even use this after its finished, not a fan of centre turn lanes, I haven't seen them in England, but perfection such as this isn't not used
Thanks, Joe. I'm glad you like it. :)
By the way, there's more now . . .
I made the diagonal prototype a bit less icky-looking (though stuff still isn't perfect by any means).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg151.imageshack.us%2Fimg151%2F3514%2Ftla3012720083rj2.jpg&hash=e64a89ee7d115f9c71c3e6bce0f1fdb7faa8d40a)
And I've also fixed the intersection I showed in my last development update 1.5 hours ago, and just for the heck of it, I copied a couple T21s over from the old NAM Road Turning Lanes (RTL) Plugin . . .
(don't mind the fact that the signals are stuck on green--that's because there aren't valid path files in yet for the intersection)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg151.imageshack.us%2Fimg151%2F5936%2Ftla3012720082ta8.jpg&hash=fb025077e25636de963668ae6d7f77966b48b4df)
I also have the T-Intersection RULed. :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg151.imageshack.us%2Fimg151%2F615%2Ftla3012720084na8.jpg&hash=bf5e9b9288d4eece8d1c566be095d92defd68cf3)
Enjoy . . .
-Alex (Tarkus)
Most likely, I won't use those "suicide lanes", but they look very nice so far! And the first pic of your last posting definitely needs a smooth curve puzzle piece (not sure if such a curve can be made draggable, but if, we should investigate how to do that). :)
Awesome! So does it get easier for you from here ? :D
Excellent work Alex!
Two small questions
-In which way will it be made draggable: via puzzle pieces or still by side by side overriding?
-Do you also plan to make a TLA-3(TLR) to Road intersection?
Looks great! ;D This is going in my cities once it is complete. Particularly in one shopping area I'm making. ;) And these are centre turn lanes, not suicide lanes, Andreas. Maybe you should make a version of this but the centre turn lane is replaced with a divider. I could use a Super-Two in some of my cities. :thumbsup:
Quote from: pilotdaryl on January 27, 2008, 08:51:40 AM
Looks great! ;D This is going in my cities once it is complete. Particularly in one shopping area I'm making. ;) And these are centre turn lanes, not suicide lanes, Andreas. Maybe you should make a version of this but the centre turn lane is replaced with a divider. I could use a Super-Two in some of my cities. :thumbsup:
Well, the RHW-2 is considered a "Super-Two". ;)
Does that mean the MIS is coming to the RHW-2?
Quote from: BigSlark on January 27, 2008, 09:34:31 PM
Does that mean the MIS is coming to the RHW-2?
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1138.msg112879#msg112879 ;)
Quote from: Andreas on January 27, 2008, 03:36:18 AM
Most likely, I won't use those "suicide lanes", but they look very nice so far! And the first pic of your last posting definitely needs a smooth curve puzzle piece (not sure if such a curve can be made draggable, but if, we should investigate how to do that).
Suicide lanes?!
That's a rather strange description... *wikipedia.org*...
And quite inaccurate, I might add. :) A suicide lane is a lane that is controlled by overhanging lights during rush hour or other such times of convenience. These are
turning lanes, in order to ensure that making a left hand turn doesn't stop traffic for half a mile. The so-called "suicide lanes" were so named because the people driving along them did not pay attention to the lights (and apparently couldn't merge back into the correct lane,) which resulted in head-on collisions. Fun!
From the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_lane): "Another type of center two-way lane is a center left-turn lane (for countries which drive on the right), center turn lane or median turn lane, a single lane in the center of the road into which traffic from both directions pulls to make a left turn. It is also used by drivers turning left onto the main road.
While this is sometimes also called a "suicide lane", it is actually far safer, as car accidents occur at far lower speeds."
Turning lanes are quite popular in every single state I've been to in the U.S. What happens (mostly in rural areas) when there is no turn lane? Why, drive right over into the oncoming lane to make your left, as long as there is no oncoming traffic, of course! :satisfied:
The first time I saw that maneuver, I didn't know what to think. Now I weave into the "wrong" lane to make a left all the time.
On the possibility of making it draggable, I would debate against implementing such a scheme. In dense urban situations (with diagonal buildings, no less) a sharper 45-degree turn may be desirable or even designed in such a way on purpose. In outlying areas, where traffic is less congested and the terrain less flat, curves are much more common.
Just my opinion. :)
@Tarkus, Well those textures aren't toobad. :thumbsup: I especially love the arrows at the intersection with the right arrow. Could you leave blank intersections with no exemplars as well? Also, burgsabre87 those Traffic Lights part of this? I like what I saw there too. If they are is it possible to add custom animations to traffic signals and with arrows? Is that what you were trying with the extra light? That would be awesome. This is similar to yours except straight up. (please ignore the details of whats going on in the roads, I actually have no idea, but its not a te lot situation since that tool don't seem to work on vista anyway now.)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FCashville-Oct.28321201664265.jpg&hash=0d7bf2bc60ff6697a8a0461a3a272c48f957c953)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FCashville-Dec.5321201664939.jpg&hash=1e3d216205b78e0c410cabc51a2e839321289e09)
My mother once collided with a car with no lights on in an avenue turning lane - she grew up near LA, before it was as big as it is now, and that's where the name came from, anyhow. Later in life, she was unable to have teeth implants due to upper jaw bone and sinal damage due to the impact some forty years ago. At any rate, they are pretty safe, we were hit rear-end on another highway when I was a tot; lost the truck but walked away fine that time.
But! I will use the lanes, they comprise most of the avenues in our area.
-Crissa
What a truly cheerful story crissa!!! &Thk/(
I don't think the NAM team would condone such overhanging props (and not even pathed) as the ones J-dub posted; they would prefer REAL textures and paths. (At least that's what I got in response to a suggestion that overhanging props be used to create a SAM addon for diagonal streets)
Quote from: j-dub on January 29, 2008, 09:27:20 PM
@Tarkus, Well those textures aren't toobad. :thumbsup: I especially love the arrows at the intersection with the right arrow. Could you leave blank intersections with no exemplars as well? Also, burgsabre87 those Traffic Lights part of this? I like what I saw there too. If they are is it possible to add custom animations to traffic signals and with arrows? Is that what you were trying with the extra light? That would be awesome. This is similar to yours except straight up. (please ignore the details of whats going on in the roads, I actually have no idea, but its not a te lot situation since that tool don't seem to work on vista anyway now.)
Jdub, I dont think you worded your first sentence very diplomatically. Your definition of "good vs bad" may be entirely different from someone elses. What we are trying to do is mimic a RL texture and make sure the textures blend into the SC4 textures. Burgess took a RL painting standard and the original MAXIS Streets to make the center lane. Not all textures have been completed hence the sidewalk instead of an turn lane at the intersection. I think for the textures that have been completed, you will notice that it was a very good job under the circumstances that it was intended to be made.
The NAM Team's policy is not to include lots in any of our projects. We will be including T21s for the network props because this is the proper way to include props on the network. You are definately welcome to remove these T21s from your plugins folder and use your own creations, but we do not support this idea. The reason we do not "support" this idea is because you are intending to use overhanging lots, the problem with these are that they are a waste of a a tile, and the fact that overhanging props were not a designed function of the game. Overhanging props do have downfalls and could cause things such as indestructable buildings amoungst other things. There will be one standard release and we will not be altering a release for a special case such as this, that would just be plain silly because we will end up having 1000 requests and not enough time to fulfill them.
Quote(from Tarkus) Proof the TLA Project is not dead . . . I know these textures look like something the cat drug in (they're a mish-mash of unmatched old early prototypes I had laying around), but I have proof the diagonals are working.
@jplumbley-I'm sorry. So those aren't the finished textures is what your saying? Oh well, can't wait to find out what they look like. I have NO intention of adding seperate lots as exemplars. Whats in that pic is bus stops just disguised, but I couldn't make a bus stop on top of the road, even if I wanted to, the device has issues on vista so TE is a thing of the past, unless I get help from someone else. I ONLY intended those pics to show some ideas for models, and was wondering if different t21 traffic lights could be ANIMATED, but not lots. I mean maybe if there was a tutorial that showed everyone how to remove the exemplars, they could add their own stuff in without asking you guys? I'm not asking for it, I'm just saying, leaving options open, because there are thousands of different stuff people want to see, but probably a small percentage of who wants what in the long run. I'm talking about something like what burgess had done with changing the traffic lights, and was just wondering if those were private or public.
So, how the project is going today?
just realized something: we (the players) who use AVE Roundabouts are going to need pathing done for TLA-to-roundabout.
Quote from: dragonshardz on February 14, 2008, 02:50:08 PM
just realized something: we (the players) who use AVE Roundabouts are going to need pathing done for TLA-to-roundabout.
Actually, you won't. $%Grinno$% That'll be accomplished through a TLA-5-to-Avenue transition. In RL, the center turn lane never goes directly up to the roundabout. There's almost always an island/median there to improve the approach geometry.
Quote from: ma360 on February 14, 2008, 02:28:56 PM
So, how the project is going today?
It's not. :D I've been focusing more on RL and RHW stuff the past few days. The TLA-3 is in relatively good shape, though. There's just a few more RULs needed and I need to whip up some more prototype textures for intersections (and a smooth curve piece or four). :D
-Alex (Tarkus)
LoL Shardz remember Alex and who ever else is working on TLA has it all under control and this will be good once its done and remember time will tell when its ready.......
thank you pat for summing it all up for shardz &apls :thumbsup:
not worrying, and thanks for the reply Alex. Just was wondering what you guys were going to do...
Does this mean, I can finally can the zzzATL.dat file out of my system with this new one? (when it comes out) Sadly my avenues have to be converted with oneways, and then back to avenues because the way mine is, the center lane, actually does hit the roundabout (or looks like it does, blends perfectly), which I don't like, but this makes it better. Good job :thumbsup:
@ J-Dub: Yes, once the TLA comes out, you will have to remove the file you mentioned. However, this is still quite some time away, so I must once again stress patience while we make this an addition to the greatest series of mods in the entire gaming world.
Did someone say
Quote from: Tarkus on February 14, 2008, 05:27:01 PM
There's just a few more RULs needed and I need to whip up some more prototype textures for intersections (and a smooth curve piece or four). :D
???
I like it! I don't usually expect smooth turns to go along with brand-new networks (based on already-existing networks) in their first release ever, but I have been instructed not to do any expecting due to a preference to surprise people.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimcity.ea.com.tw%2Fviewpic.asp%3Fsrc%3Dcontent%2Fgame%2Frushhour%2Fscreens%2Fscreenshot_01_big&hash=ba8ca3758b1a23b0f2e5dc7e9ad475460628eea5)
http://simcity.ea.com.tw/viewpic.asp?src=content/game/rushhour/screens/screenshot_01_big
So, I assume this intersection on the left will be updated now with turning lanes for the road crossing as well?
Quote from: j-dub on February 19, 2008, 01:11:23 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsimcity.ea.com.tw%2Fviewpic.asp%3Fsrc%3Dcontent%2Fgame%2Frushhour%2Fscreens%2Fscreenshot_01_big&hash=ba8ca3758b1a23b0f2e5dc7e9ad475460628eea5)
http://simcity.ea.com.tw/viewpic.asp?src=content/game/rushhour/screens/screenshot_01_big
So, I assume this intersection on the left will be updated now with turning lanes for the road crossing as well?
Actually that really isn't related to this project. That would have more to do with revamping the Avenue Turning Lanes (ATL) Plugin (not Turning Lane Avenues :D).
-Alex (Tarkus)
Re-writing the Turning Lanes Plugins is in my lap right now we will have something that is MUCH better trust me. Optional Truning Lanes are coming and will be out before any of the TLA Project because so much of the TLA Project depends on the Road network and will not be compatible with the original NAM RTL Plugin, hence, the new Turning Lanes Plugin. I am in exam week, and will have time next week... IF someone makes me some prototype textures I have been asking for.
Quote from: Tarkus on February 19, 2008, 04:08:16 PM
Actually that really isn't related to this project. That would have more to do with revamping the Avenue Turning Lanes (ATL) Plugin (not Turning Lane Avenues :D).
-Alex (Tarkus)
But the TLAs will still contain TLs for intersections, right?
This has got to be the one mod, even counting the RHW and SAM, that is a must-have for me. Not only will my avenues LOOK realistic, but FUNCTION too! The traffic sim will also be happier, I hope.
hmmmm something bigger and better I wonder what it would be??? Dang nam it, you all are great!!! BTW Alex I noticed your new avay looking niiiice!!!
kassarc16, to answer your question, yes, the TLAs will still contain TLs for intersections. And the coding on them will actually probably be rather similar to whatever we end up using for the revamped ATL Plugin (which I already have some idea of how to implement). I'm also glad to hear you're looking forward to this project. I am too, though it's always competing with the RHW for my attention. :D
And Pat, thanks as well for your support. We appreciate it. (And thanks for the compliments on my new avatar.)
I will be back with another development update here, hopefully in the not-so-distant future.
In the meanwhile, I have updated my initial post in this thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg33176#msg33176) (stickied at the top of every page), and have added a lot of new information, in line with what I did with the RHW thread. There's now an FAQ section (which I will probably be adding more to in the future), and I've also included information on the types of networks that will be contained in the scope of the project, as well as their capacities. Plus another old development pic of the TLA-5. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
I just noticed something else I'm liking about this. Sidewalks will only be in places that need them, and can change depending on zone and wealth! That's a nice side effect of basing this off roads!
AVE-2 - Could this be... not 2 lanes divided by a median?! I think I'm in love! Tell me I'm not dreaming!
Quote from: jplumbley on February 19, 2008, 05:24:55 PMIF someone makes me some prototype textures I have been asking for.
I've got them and will look at them for you. Keep your pants on. :P
Quote from: kassarc16 on February 20, 2008, 12:23:20 AM
AVE-2 - Could this be... not 2 lanes divided by a median?! I think I'm in love! Tell me I'm not dreaming!
Actually, that's the TLA-3. ;) I think the AVE-2 is like a road, but instead of a double-yellow line there's a median. (Which will work great in neighborhoods)
-- John
woohoo!... it's finally begun to get some form... i think the release is close now! :thumbsup:
Quote from: DFire870 on February 20, 2008, 05:21:53 AM
Actually, that's the TLA-3. ;) I think the AVE-2 is like a road, but instead of a double-yellow line there's a median. (Which will work great in neighborhoods)
Whoop, that's what I meant. I knew TLA-3 is just a road with a TL, but I hadn't realized what AVE-2 could be until that moment. That had actually been one of the things I wanted to see since back in the days of the start of the RHW project. One of the mod geniuses (maybe it was Tarkus) had shown a pic of a road override that used two side-by-side roads and placed a median in between.
Wait, I just thought of something, because they can turn across with no intersection does that mean puzzlepieces like streets can lead up to this thing, technically not attaching and still be functionable continuosly?
Quote from: j-dub on February 20, 2008, 05:50:54 PM
Wait, I just thought of something, because they can turn across with no intersection does that mean puzzlepieces like streets can lead up to this thing, technically not attaching and still be functionable continuosly?
dont exactly get what ur saying... :-[
you really need to be more specific jdub
Quote from: j-dub on February 20, 2008, 05:50:54 PM
Wait, I just thought of something, because they can turn across with no intersection does that mean puzzlepieces like streets can lead up to this thing, technically not attaching and still be functionable continuosly?
I have to agree with the last two posters... Im not 100% sure what you are asking but here is an answer for my interpretation.
Lets say you have 2 side by side networks, one is a TLA-5 and the other a street, both running parrallel to each other. Now, they dont have any "physical" intersection between the two since they are parrallel. A car cannot "jump" from the TLA-5 to the Street using the path system that is currently setup. This is because the Street doesnt have a path that "joins" up with the left turn path from the TLA-5. If we modified the path file for the Street tile though and made a "joining" pathto the left turn path from the TLA-5 it would allow such a "jump". Technically it would be following a predetermined path like every other car, but avoiding intersections. This is how wider RHWs will work aswell and still be able to be on sloped terrain.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjrp4sc4.googlepages.com%2Fthisisnotadrivethru.jpg&hash=08c175edffdbf73e59ba7a41cdfaa614f48e7748)
Oh, I see what your saying, I can't guess I can't explain nor proove what I have seen with some weird stuff happen in my game. Because I have done that where there was a puzzle piece, the glr in avenue, a road used to be attached to the avenue, but it got detached, not my choice, so the continuous texture stayed there, and cars would drive over it still and disapear into the avenue, but the query showed it was still used. When you demolish something, the game should detach it so theres a u-turn. The reason I asked is I have seen other wierd stuff where the highway is parralel to a road, but the arrows indicate they jump off the hwy to the road, even though there is no physical connection, but this may just proove the arrows are innacurate because it can't interpret the way cars use the interchanges. And incase anyone wonders what else is goin on down there bottom right, I would just call that stuff all a glitch.
J-Dub... That lot, it must be Transit Enabled for something. Now you see what my problem is with Transit Enabled Lots when they are used as network pieces. This may not be a TE Lot for Network tile, but it shows what happens and how it can screw up the pathing.
Quote from: jplumbley on February 21, 2008, 06:24:32 PM
J-Dub... That lot, it must be Transit Enabled for something. Now you see what my problem is with Transit Enabled Lots when they are used as network pieces. This may not be a TE Lot for Network tile, but it shows what happens and how it can screw up the pathing.
Um Jason, that a building showing traffic leaving it. Just like any other normal Residential building, traffic can leave from any direction it wants to so the sims can go to work.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on February 21, 2008, 06:35:09 PM
Um Jason, that a building showing traffic leaving it. Just like any other normal Residential building, traffic can leave from any direction it wants to so the sims can go to work.
Dude... Im so dense tonight... My eyes are droopy from getting 4.5 hours of sleep in 2 nights due to homework.
Quote from: j-dub on February 21, 2008, 04:32:48 PM...........The reason I asked is I have seen other wierd stuff where the highway is parralel to a road, but the arrows indicate they jump off the hwy to the road, even though there is no physical connection, but this may just proove the arrows are innacurate because it can't interpret the way cars use the interchanges........
As the saying goes; a picture paints a thousand words ;).
There are some (existing) instances in which this can & will happen, due to faulty/inaccurate handling of pathing with the game. There are many instances in which Maxis had to hardcode some junctions & other various items due to path jumping.
From the looks of things, I'm not sure it's a faulty path, but more than likely, it's something with the Transit Query tool--it has a tendency to show faulty data from time to time. It looks like it's showing the arrow going directly through the building.
That TE Lot and the setup you have there probably doesn't help it, nor do the deconverted two tile stretches of RHW there. I think the way you're using the networks, puzzle pieces and TE Lots has a lot to do with the issues you're having--they're not really designed for that sort of thing.
I'll be back with an update on the TLAs in a little while.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Alex, 'progress' should be your middle name. Good work - and I can't wait to see the update.
I agree good work on the updates. When they finally do come, most likely we'd have to detele the TWL from J-Dub?
Your Freind;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
A small development update, as promised. I've been working on the TLA-3/Avenue intersection. The TLA-3 Intersection Turn Lane code I put in has been enabled for this intersection, and rest assured, I plan to get the Avenue Turn Lanes working here, too. There's still some rather sketchy prototype textures here as well.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg61.imageshack.us%2Fimg61%2F6956%2Ftla3avenueintersectionsu1.jpg&hash=92585e45bb58aba7643cadda3ceda9cb4d791b7d)
Next up I'm planning to hit the TLA-5/TLA-3 and TLA-5/Avenue intersections, and then add in turn lanes for the TLA-5/TLA-5 intersection.
I've also started switching the TLA-5 from the old Side-by-Side Road override, to a Side-by-Side TLA-3 override, which will allow the RULs to be transparent when the mod is not installed.
Starman--it was actually burgsabre87 (ryanb_sc4) who made the original Two-Way Left Turn Lane (TWLTL) texture mod. To answer your question, you won't need to delete it (it's all textures, no RULs), but you will probably want to, since they'll be able to function and co-exist with the Maxis Avenues once the TLA-5 is released.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Tarkus, that looks fantastic! &apls Keep those updates coming. Loving every minute of it. Could solve some of my fender benders I keep on here in my cities LOL.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Pround To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)
Alex, who's doing the textures for the TLA project? They look awesome!! ;) Also will there be overpasses and underpasses included in the TLA project somewhere along the line? Saying to himself (me): "I need to start learning how to do RULs in my expansive free time." :P
Um yeah, from ryan like you said Tarkus. %confuso (thanks for the clarification) I will say this though, since the ATL concept, I liked the American turn lane so that stays, unless the ATL has the double yellow line as well, rather than the original NAM avenue intersection texture. And again Tarkus, I like the concept of having both median avenues, and 5 lane avenues at the same time that you mentioned. As for the recent developement Yes, its back! The road left turn to 4 lane. Thats something I used to be able to do with the old RHW when it was the ant network, as seen below. I was allowed to have left turn lanes to it for some wierd reason by having the intersection automatically connect the rhw to road, just like how roads automatically attach to streets, except with a light at the crossings; but when you drew it, that didn't happen, silly ant network. Advised not to test that statement, don't want to cause you guys to U-turn. @jplumbley, finally the weekend is close, time to rest up. I hope this stuff isn't making you sleep deprived. :P
Very nice Tarkus! I like the amount of detail put into that intersection; you even included the double-yellow line! Now that's what I call effort!
Best,
-Haljackey
Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I really do appreciate it. :thumbsup:
Quote from: debutterfly on February 22, 2008, 07:25:33 AM
Alex, who's doing the textures for the TLA project? They look awesome!! ;) Also will there be overpasses and underpasses included in the TLA project somewhere along the line? Saying to himself (me): "I need to start learning how to do RULs in my expansive free time." :P
The TLA-5 textures are burgsabre87's, and the all the TLA-3 textures (including this past update) are mine.
As far as underpasses/overpasses go, there will be draggable El-Rail and Monorail (and probably HSR) underpasses, and Network-over-TLA puzzle pieces. I'm not sure about making elevated TLA-5, as the Avenue pieces will essentially serve the function of Elevated TLA-5 (though perhaps they could use a facelift at some point), and I'm not really sure about the TLA-3 (it'd technically be an AVE-2 Elevated).
Hope that answers your questions.
Back with more in a little while.
-Alex (Tarkus)
I don't think overpasses for the TLAs are needed, because what are you going to use the turning lane for? It's a bridge so there's nowhere to turn to. :P
-- John
well, there definitely need to be overpasses/underpasses for rail, at least...
Well sims do have a habit of being suicidal
Ah, I see now. U just modified it to have the middle lane accessable to traffic right?
That's about it, yes - plus adding connectivity with the MIS, and cleaning up the textures. :)
Quote from: Haljackey on February 22, 2008, 08:37:43 AM
Very nice Tarkus! I like the amount of detail put into that intersection; you even included the double-yellow line! Now that's what I call effort!
Best,
-Haljackey
I know! And that's just a prototype! The amount of work put into this is just amazing. You've all added so much to the game already, but the idea of having this in my cities...I love to think how much more unique they'll be! :thumbsup: &apls
-Yoshi
Hey Tarkus, I just had a thought. Will the MAVEs have left turn capability, or just function like normal Aves?
Tarkus I would definitely recommend making an HSR underpass, HSR is only in it's second pre-alpha but it's looking great already.
If your wondering, Warrior's development cycle is Update _._ (Pre-Alpha Stage), then Alpha _._, then Beta _._
I like the Pre-alpha bit, it gives me more time as first tester to play with it! ;D ()stsfd()
Thanks for all the support, everyone. :thumbsup:
And I'm back with another development update. The Avenue turn lanes have now been added to the TLA-3/Avenue intersection. And thus, it should be fairly easy for me to now add Avenue Turn Lanes and TLA-5 turn lanes to just about any other intersection I want to. :)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg141.imageshack.us%2Fimg141%2F9906%2Ftla3avenueintersection0yz2.jpg&hash=34f9027f8f0868b48811ea3e60c7bd9a4c9d6a38)
I even got the T-Intersection working.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg141.imageshack.us%2Fimg141%2F7615%2Ftla3avenueintersection0gq0.jpg&hash=4efdc45b8ea8a8fd5397abfd3274a128384ddb5b)
kassarc16, to answer your question, I hadn't really thought about it yet, but that makes some sense. Of course, the left turning motions (or right turning motions for you LHD folks) on MAVEs tend to be a bit . . . um . . . adventurous. :D
And as far as HSR compatibility goes, dragonshardz, I had already been thinking about that possibility. Warrior has really done some nice work on that project.
Great Update Alex :thumbsup:
One question: Will the TLA be LHD compatible, if not I'll just have to switch to RHD.
Quote from: Warrior on February 23, 2008, 04:34:29 AM
One question: Will the TLA be LHD compatible, if not I'll just have to switch to RHD.
Yes, it will be. :thumbsup:
-Alex (Tarkus)
Great work all.
Quote from: Tarkus on February 23, 2008, 04:07:43 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg141.imageshack.us%2Fimg141%2F9906%2Ftla3avenueintersection0yz2.jpg&hash=34f9027f8f0868b48811ea3e60c7bd9a4c9d6a38)
No Way.... :o
I have been waiting for this for a LONG Time! This is the first time I've seen them in the game (properly)! Excellent work!
BTW, there are textures already modeled for this type of intersection if you want to have a look. I'm not sure if it applies to this but I'll give you the link anyways:
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=55265&STARTPAGE=30 (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=55265&STARTPAGE=30)(There are a few different textures here if you scroll down the page further)
Best,
-Haljackey
Yay. :) now thats what im talkin about. @Haljackey, from what it seems, that the ATL is a different road/avenue network. So I assume for regular roads and avenues, the textures back on ST will be used for the regular Avenues, but this situation is different, because the road in Tarkus' picture has 3 continous lanes, those other textures you linked, looks like the design was for two lane road. So that was a good move to bring that back up. For Euro users, I'm sure someone else will do a face lift. Those textures on ST should be considered for the Euro version, whoever does it. I can see it, the middle will likely be inversed with white lines, maybe the spit on the out, the solid on the in. On my game, theres the ATL texture (double yellow line, reduced arrows) and the regular Avenue Left Turn Lane. Because of this I think we should have a choice in the next release rather than having both textures in play. I'd like to have all my textures with the double yellow line more than the avenues instead of the Euro looking Avenue textures that originally came with NAM. I know other people would like to see the Euro version. I know whoever made that below, gets the concept of how American's turn, but I don't think their from there, thats the debate, in reality those yellow markings are a good idea, but reality check I never usually se it like that. Plenty of time before 09 for a Euro ATL anyone? @Tarkus, never realized it before, in that top pic having ht wires right next to houses, is a bad cancer causer. :o
American (concept) Euro (concept)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg363.imageshack.us%2Fimg363%2F1271%2Fbase6usadk7.jpg&hash=84826beee15c070209fcb9eb40b361d57fbfded5)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg77.imageshack.us%2Fimg77%2F7008%2Froadturnlaneay4.jpg&hash=b73534dff3873bf6b7ddede7e475223a5a559d38)
More intersections, as promised . . . ::)
TLA-5 Turn Lanes on a TLA-5/TLA-5 +-Intersection
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg530.imageshack.us%2Fimg530%2F2796%2Ftla022320081on7.jpg&hash=3b6635e132f69f7077bf2a94ce6df402268f5fa4)
Proving that this is in fact separate from the Avenue network:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg530.imageshack.us%2Fimg530%2F1025%2Ftla022320082ys8.jpg&hash=b0d116f01fc4d9a845a0250fe73e6a021e0177dc)
TLA-5 Turn Lanes on a TLA-5/TLA-5 T-Intersection
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg530.imageshack.us%2Fimg530%2F9734%2Ftla022320083ku9.jpg&hash=2e3a6683afd4de50599808b046ff38813b2ae998)
And a rather pleasant but unanticipated side-effect.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg209.imageshack.us%2Fimg209%2F3657%2Ftla022320084da2.jpg&hash=7d3e5c8381af2e646014d344ffcdbe2a3a384b2d)
Haljackey, to answer your question, those textures are in fact designed for the Road Turning Lanes, not the TLA-3. The TLA-3 is actually wider than the Road Turning Lanes. At one point I did actually have the TLA-3 at the same width as the RTL, but it looked far too squished. ;) Those textures might work, however, if I stretched them out . . . ;)
And everyone, to confirm something you've probably been wondering, TLA v1 will be released before RHW v21 (likely well before). No specific dates, of course. ::)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Alex, that is some NICE stuff there. ;D
Just y'all wait until we get some nice new shiny textures on there. It's gonna be very nice.
I wish I could see all the pics you posted Alex but all Im seeing is red X cept the last one of the unexpected but pleasent effect lol......
Quote from: Pat on February 23, 2008, 08:50:59 PM
I wish I could see all the pics you posted Alex but all Im seeing is red X cept the last one of the unexpected but pleasent effect lol......
Hmm . . . that's a bit odd. They're showing up on my end--Imageshack might have just been being stupid for a few minutes (it does that all too often). Here's direct links for the first three in case anyone else is having the same problem.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2796/tla022320081on7.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1025/tla022320082ys8.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9734/tla022320083ku9.jpg
-Alex
had the same problem around 9:50 AST, but it's cleared up now at 10:37 AST
go fig I come back in here after you posted Alex and now they are working just fine lol..... BTW talk about sweetness lol
Those intersections are looking great. This reminds a lot of Tarpon Avenue closer to downtown and State Road-580 further South. I have no idea when this will come out, but now I know which will come first...oh well I can wait for the new RHW, V20 is enough to keep me going for a few years. ;)
-Yoshi
Tarkus, I just thought of something after seeing the TLA-ATL comparison.
Will it be possible to switch the traffic signals to the far side of intersection for the TLAs (or even the ATLs eventually), or will that screw up the animation timing or stop paths?
Great update, BTW. I take it the "unanticipated side-effect" smooths out a curve or two on the project?
Alex,
Great development in the past few days. I always, always enjoy seeing what you've come up with and I look forward to playing with this in my cities.
Cheers,
Kevin
Quote from: kassarc16 on February 23, 2008, 10:38:49 PM
Tarkus, I just thought of something after seeing the TLA-ATL comparison.
Will it be possible to switch the traffic signals to the far side of intersection for the TLAs (or even the ATLs eventually), or will that screw up the animation timing or stop paths?
Stoplights have to be on the tile that has the stop points that they are working with. The stoplight props are just visual displays for the stopping and going of traffic. The only time that they can be placed on the opposite side is on intersections that are 1 tile across. For intersections that are 2 tiles across, they must be on the approaching sides to function properly. Otherwise, they just stay green all the time.
-Swamper
thats a bummer because here in the uk most traffic signals are doubled up.... so the frontcar in the queue can see when to go....
I like the turn lane textures, but maybe the intersections should have the turn lines as well?
Couldn't you make a set of offset rendered stop lights, so they appear to be on the other side of the intersection?
Quote from: Swampper77Stoplights have to be on the tile that has the stop points that they are working with. The stoplight props are just visual displays for the stopping and going of traffic. The only time that they can be placed on the opposite side is on intersections that are 1 tile across. For intersections that are 2 tiles across, they must be on the approaching sides to function properly. Otherwise, they just stay green all the time.
I think thats better than getting caught at a red light for a while, however are you sure thats right, because I look at the Avenue Puzzle Piece, the elevated one you use for an on and off ramp, and those are across, but the ones with the pole already attached I thought those worked, but thats not a continuous network, maybe because its really two roads/oneways conjoined on a 1x2 versus the ATL's continuous 5x5 lanes? Or maybe I was just seeing things, but wouldn't it not matter anyway, because you said they have to be on the tile they are working with so long as it goes straight across this shouldn't be a problem, but T's on the otherhand maybe. I don't really care about how traffic lights are positoned, and by doing that the ATL poles 24 and 25 would have to be edited so the walklight faces the other direction. In fact why in reality do they position the lights in various ways they do, yet the same type of intersection? I just reinstalled my game recentlly due to failure, and the ingame pictures show the traffic lights on the opposite side of the avenueXavenue intersections. Man what a difference, the single streetlights look like they used to be as big as the avenue ones. @Tarkus, what about if the ATL is going to end at road, and not go across? Or is that where the ATL to Ave transition comes in? I don't know who plans a road like that, but in this one game I had you got to the end of the avenue, and you had to merge as you were turning through the junction. Oh wait, we have that where I live, double lefts that turn onto two lane roads, and left turn lanes that turn into nothing. Ahhhhhhhhhhh
jdub: as i have mentioned to your post in the RHW thread please read carefully kay? thanks! ;)
j-dub, please try to stay on topic here. It'd make it a lot easier for people viewing this thread to view our progress in this astonishing endeavour.
Quote from: Tarkus on February 23, 2008, 06:44:44 PM
Haljackey, to answer your question, those textures are in fact designed for the Road Turning Lanes, not the TLA-3. The TLA-3 is actually wider than the Road Turning Lanes. At one point I did actually have the TLA-3 at the same width as the RTL, but it looked far too squished. ;) Those textures might work, however, if I stretched them out . . . ;)
LOL, I didn't ask a question :P. But, its nice to know what you have planned there. I actually had no idea that there was a difference between a Road Turning Lane (RTL?) and a centre turning lane (ATL?), I thought they were the same thing! (and width!)
-But as they say, you learn something new everyday. ;) Best of luck with the project!
Quote from: mightygoose on February 24, 2008, 02:40:13 AM
thats a bummer because here in the uk most traffic signals are doubled up.... so the frontcar in the queue can see when to go....
Same here in Canada. I'm not a big "traffic light fanatic", but this is a bummer. Oh well, I am used to what I see with the Ave-Ave intersection anyways. Interesting point though!
j-dub: Eh? What are you getting at? Try to space out your post so it can be a little more readable, that way its easier to understand what you are mentioning.
Best,
-Haljackey
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg338.imageshack.us%2Fimg338%2F5858%2Ftlaconcept1cs9.jpg&hash=4ca63cacead38cb6f2a2c17a14cfbd59d863b5a7)
Sorry for the bad photoshopping... but I think this would look a lot better. I also think the 'dark strip' on the centre lane should be reduced since 1. it really isn't used that often and 2. kinda unrealistic...
This thread is running white hot at the moment that is for sure
Now then looking the work is coming along nicely and will make great additions to non high density development in the city areas and beyond.
Again :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: to keeping SC4 alive through expanding it as much as possible &apls
pilo: do keep in mind that those are prototype textures and not that of the finished one :thumbsup:
Here's the current state of the TLA-5/TLA-3 intersection. The RULs seem to work, the turn lanes show up, and the textures are, of course, still prototypes. ;)
+-Intersection
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F5874%2Ftla022620082ha6.jpg&hash=ade51ef4e377d4cc7ad74731b3d651fa0ebceb35)
T-Intersection
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg206.imageshack.us%2Fimg206%2F748%2Ftla022620081it6.jpg&hash=56c1566cbefcfb7e138ac0294fb28b2ecb891ba6)
Things still aren't entirely stable yet, so it may still be awhile.
-Alex (Tarkus)
The TL5/TL3 is looking fantastic Tarkus. Cant wait to use them in my city. Are u going to have turning lanes for one-way roads?(OWR).
Question:
Will there be a traditional avenue to TLA 5 transistion?
-Susan Marie
Looking good, Alex! Looking really good! I can't wait to see more progress!
starman, to answer your question, the way the OWR network is setup, the directionality is not tied to the texture rotation, so unfortunately, it's not possible.
SusanMarie, to answer your question, there will be a way to transition between the two networks, though it will likely involve a connection to OWR in between the TLA-5 and the normal Avenue.
And Dustin, thanks for the support!
I'll be back with more a little later . . . ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
great progress Alex... &apls Only if SC4Tool would show the textures and text fields instead of showing black text fields and no textures. &cry2
SIDEBAR NOTE: I've already read how to fix freezes from happening in SC4Tools but i don't know why the textures would not show up. It loads and everything else works fine. I have Vista Home Premium x64. It's not because I'm running a 64-bit processor. I think it's because XP goes up to 24-bit color and Vista supports 16-bit and 32-bit color so there's compatability issues in the color display. Can anyone who's on the NAM team who has Vista and is using SC4Tool to view textures help me get this to work. This is appropriate for the NAM thread since it's about editing NAM textures and RULs. &hlp
Anyway, I understand better how RULs work. ;) It's like learning another programming language, pretty easy to say the least (for me at least) ()stsfd() . Just need to have great visualization on how peices are oriented in different positions and a lot of time and patience. Just wondering...how much time do you take a day (on average) modding and testing? ::)
When I had XP I used SC4Tool reguraly, it's a great tool, but since I have got Vista and learnt how to RUL I know use the reader and it's texture viewer, if you need more details I'm sure they can be given.
When I don't have school I generaly spend the whole day modding, I know I'm sad.
SC4Tool isn't fully compatible with Vista. I don't know why, but that's just the way it is [in fact, if you attempt to run it in Vista native mode, not WinXP SP2 mode, it will most likely make your computer freak out].
A compatibility patch would be nice, but we'll have to wait and see.
Unfortunately, there won't be a Vista compatibility patch for SC4Tool, at least not in the near future. simrolle might pick up the development of an SC4Tool predecessor one day, but due to RL issues, it's not very likely at the moment.
Yeah, I have the same issue with textures in SC4Tool. I am running Vista Ultimate.
Prototype of the TLA-3/Road conversion. It's a draggable setup, which is initiated in a very similar manner to jplumbley's new Road Turning Lanes (RTL) Plugin. Textures aren't finished, obviously--it looks a bit short to me, but I don't know.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg20.imageshack.us%2Fimg20%2F3508%2Ftla022720081rj3.jpg&hash=dace8096757fa805cf11ba7d3a50db217c65a05f)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Alex, that looks great! I know it's a prototype texture, but for the final one I think a two tile transition would be smoother, as well as striped lines in the V section.
Can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve next!
-- John
Two to three tile transition, but the double line in the center of the transition needs to stay. Wouldn't be safe otherwise.
I think Dfire meant to have a series of diagonal lines from one side of the V to the other to fill in the space. It is something I see quite often in a transition like this.
Quote from: RebaLynnTS on February 27, 2008, 07:18:21 PM
I think Dfire meant to have a series of diagonal lines from one side of the V to the other to fill in the space. It is something I see quite often in a transition like this.
Yeah, that's what I meant, striped diagonal lines across the V. I see that all the time.
-- John
WOW I agree with what Palp said that this thread is smokin white hot!!! Anyways and anywho how ever the final versions turn out I belive it will be great no matter what cause it came from the NAM team!!!!
Interesting concept for the 2 lane TLA
Anycase as with those white diagonal lines, I think they will come later on as an optional add on.
i am happy to just have it working :)
I like that transition, Alex! It looks very realistic! I'll be looking forward to seeing more progress and development here, my friend.
Dustin
Yes, that's looking very great! Looking forward to more progress, too! ;)
Cool Update tarkus, will look great in Steven's Point LOL. Keep Up The Great Work. :)
Great Job Here!!!
On the TLA3 to road transition, I think it needs to be more gradual to be more realistic - two or three tiles is best. The striping configuration works, however.
In my experience, TLA-3's are rarely built as such. They're either widened two lane roads that have some pavement added, undivided avenues that are restriped, or built as the DOT constructing them couldn't afford a TLA-5 at the time and figured something was better than nothing.
Besides, they aren't exactly high speed roads, perhaps 45 mph at most. I like the quick transition-perfect for suburban and urban areas, where they'll look the most at home.
Cheers,
Kevin
You need to go down to Louisiana ... 55 on the TLA-3s, and they are all over the place, with a gradual transition. We had a lot of them in school zones, the road would be 2 lane, until you got close to the school, goto TLA-3, then back to 2 lane after the school zone. And, they never widen the bridges, go from a TLA-5, to a 2 lane bridge, and back to the TLA-5. Then they wonder why they have bottle necks :)
All this talk about transitions got me to thinkin' . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F155%2Froadtlr3transitionwt6.png&hash=3e1e6abb0b55b65a4e05e5235be713d4f08c7129)
This is the first prototype of a two-tile transition.
That looks like it's on the right track!
Ryan, that's spot on. :) It won't be terribly difficult for me to turn it into a two-tiler, either, given the way I've initiated the override.
I'll be back with an in-game screenie of it in a little while. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
That looks outstanding, Ryan! I can't wait to see Alex take it into the game!
Quote from: RebaLynnTS on February 28, 2008, 09:36:46 PM
You need to go down to Louisiana ... 55 on the TLA-3s, and they are all over the place, with a gradual transition. We had a lot of them in school zones, the road would be 2 lane, until you got close to the school, goto TLA-3, then back to 2 lane after the school zone. And, they never widen the bridges, go from a TLA-5, to a 2 lane bridge, and back to the TLA-5. Then they wonder why they have bottle necks :)
Which part of Louisiana is this? I was in Baton Rogue and the Northshore last week, LADOTD seemed to be doing a decent job considering the population explosion. They had big signs about the about to being widening project for I-12 between LA 3425 in Baton Rogue and US 51 in Hammond. Apparently the West Florida Republic Parkway is getting six lanes...
Upstate on the other hand, well, Louisiana does a good job of making Mississippi look good...
And to not be completely off topic, great looking texture, I can't wait to see it in game!
Cheers,
Kevin
Those are some serious avenues! Great work, and i really like the progress on these types of mods, they are really adding more realism and options to the simcity community. I couldnt imagine the developers of the game would ever see the day that these kind of mods would be taking place. I bet with all the smaller mods, custom content and work on other areas of the game, we could have created a whole other expansion pack to the game! At any rate, keep up the good work, :thumbsup:
Thanks for all the support, guys! It's really appreciated. :thumbsup:
As promised, screenies with the new textures.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg401.imageshack.us%2Fimg401%2F333%2Ftla02292008ri3.jpg&hash=0c8ec948eee4aaf10bc543ea524c6633a0d5519c)
And I've pathed them already as well. (I also refined the TLA-3 pathing some.)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg401.imageshack.us%2Fimg401%2F7892%2Ftla022920082al2.jpg&hash=0174b0db0a7a4744bd787e982e53b77454adb703)
I can also reuse this for the AVE-2/Road transition. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
wow thats one sweet transition guys keep it up!
Thanks, Ryan! :) And it's about to get sweeter . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F9005%2Ftla022920083we3.jpg&hash=e4897da1b15e721f0cac720b212bdc4dd8c4c585)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F6193%2Ftla022920084ey5.jpg&hash=ec0f6c49c4e26dd597af96f8ecbd7ad9d253cd87)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg149.imageshack.us%2Fimg149%2F6959%2Ftla022920085lt5.jpg&hash=0d3c6b2cd93777f73831685dcc880d2e38a3579e)
A little AVE-2 action . . .
-Alex (Tarkus)
The TLA's are not for me with my European taste, but that AVE-2 looks very nice. We could put some trees and shrubs in the median and use it as a smaller version of a "parkway".
Oh, me likey the development. Will the gaps be filled in urban places?
Anyways, I made an european look for the transition brugsabre posted; it was something I did for fun, but you can use it if you wish.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg178.imageshack.us%2Fimg178%2F1940%2Ftransitioneuxs1.png&hash=72de2de58ad0226a71ff8a175d10a88121d20671)
This is wonderful stuff, can't wait to see more. The new trasition is perfect for the USA.
BigSlark .. I lived in Slidell for 30 years. After the Storm things began to get a lot better, but I still think they are 20 years behind on planning :)
Nice to know I-12 is getting a badly needed upgrade.
dude! alex! you needa stop that, youre going to give everyone cavities with all those sweet updates were all taking in $%Grinno$%
Wow! AVE-2 looks great, I hope it gets some T21 trees, bushes, and lampposts so it can beautify high-wealth low-density residential and commercial areas.
And maybe some mountain roads as well, where its too narrow for more than two lanes but it needs to be divided for safety reasons...
Just remember guys: whatever you come up with I'll find a new and interesting way to use it!
Keep up the great work and I'm looking forward to more!
Cheers,
Kevin
I need to pull over, cause that just blew my mind! Nothing short of spectacular! &apls &apls
Quote
A little AVE-2 action . . .
Unbelievable! I love it, Alex! I absolutely love it, my friend!
Dustin
OMG, OMG, OMG, I about fell backwarks in the chair when looking the newest screenies. I'm stunned at what all of you are capable of doing.
I LOVE IT!
:o
&apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls
Very well done Tarkus!
2 tiles seems like the best transition size to me. Nice job with the intersections too! ;)
Best,
-Haljackey
i have som kind of question here...
i've seen some turning lane avenues here in monterrey, mexico (where i live) and the turning lanes have arrows at every crossing (depending on the way of the street)... and when is a double way street, the arrows are at the 2 sides of the crossing..... let me explain with a picture.
then.....
why not makin only ONE WAY like 2 tiles of the center turning lane... so it would be an exclusive turning lane for some crossing
i hope i make my point
if not... please reply
Wonderful!!!
burgsabre87: I really like the texture you've come up with there!!! If I could help at all, then I would, but I'm already too busy with all of my work, so I could give you guys some feedback. Are you thinking of collaborating with the single-lane road project?
Quote from: pilotdaryl on February 29, 2008, 04:10:28 PM
burgsabre87: Are you thinking of collaborating with the single-lane road project?
The single lane road is already on progress... it is called now the "asimetrical road"
it should be out on the release of the TLAs
i guess :D
Quote from: pilotdaryl on February 29, 2008, 04:10:28 PM
Are you thinking of collaborating with the single-lane road project?
Well, the so-called "SLR" never really was a separate project--it just looks that way as someone outside the team started a thread to request it. As el_cozu pointed out, I've incorporated it into this project under the name ARD-3 (ARD=Asymmetrical Road). The RULs I've written for the TLA-3/AVE-2 and the MIS can be re-used for the ARD-3, and I only need to make a few small changes to TLA-3 textures to turn them into ARD-3 textures. I can't say for certain that it will be included with the first release of the TLAs, though. It's a surprise. ;)
(And el_cozu, just a friendly reminder--please use the "Modify" button to edit your existing post instead of making a double post. Thanks. :))
-Alex (Tarkus)
That Av-2 makes mine look terrible o-o
-Crissa
sorry for the double post... it wont happen again...
may i ask... what does RUL mean? :P
there are some abvreviations i cant really find at some threads what they exactly mean... RUL is one of them. just so i can fully understand the technical manners of this development
el_cozu, to answer your question, a RUL is a type of internal file that SC4 uses to define the placement of network tiles in the game (an abbreviation for "Rule"). There's roughly a couple dozen different ones, all with their own specialized purposes. Editing them basically makes everything in the NAM, and everything you see here possible.
Hope that answers your question. :)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Alex and Ryan (burgs) you 2 boys are just soooooooooooooo mean and you know what I love it!!! WOW talk about making me thank god I had a horrible nightmare lol.....
Wow. Those 2 and 6-lane avenues are looking good :) !!!
Quote from: Pat on February 29, 2008, 11:57:40 PM
Alex and Ryan (burgs) you 2 boys are just soooooooooooooo mean and you know what I love it!!! WOW talk about making me thank god I had a horrible nightmare lol.....
We try. ;) :P
I knew the thread looked different! I am speechless! :o
&aplsYou guys are awsome keep it up!! :thumbsup:
Just a ? concerning Turning Lanes, when we build those Turnings, will we be able to choose which roads and streets have turning lanes? Instead of everyone interestion with turning lanes?
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on March 01, 2008, 10:54:29 AM
will we be able to choose which roads and streets have turning lanes? Instead of everyone interestion with turning lanes?
In the future, that should be possible I think. ;)
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2629.0
Im going to be nice and kindly let you know jdub, please stop spamming our development threads. If there is something you want to contribute, please by all means let us know. Posting shots like this that is totally irrelevant to project development is truly unnecessary. Again, please think twice before you post k?
This is not the best way to deal with a person such as this. Please, do not be condesending and suggest how he could make a better post rather than telling him not to post. - JP
J-dub,
Please put some organization into your posts. Im not saying "stop", I along with most others cannot understand what you are trying to say. Please, structure your posts in a fashion that explains what is happening in the picture you are showing.
For example, in the picture you just showed:
1. The Road Intersection with the Avenue is not complete, and the Turning Lane does not continue through the intersection.
2. The Avenue/Avenue Intersection is not complete because the tiles to the north of the intersection are not showing up properly.
I dont know if these are your complaints but, you seriously need to start explaining what you are trying to so instead of saying "How embarassing." It is quite demoralizing to members of the NAM Team who are working diligently on many of the issues that plague the releases we are working on before we release them.
EDIT(previous removed) Explanation-My bad, there is nothing I was hinting to demoralize. English is not my best. If anything I was trying to say good words that this project will solve those issues, but again nterpreted wrong.
QuoteThe Avenue/Avenue Intersection is not complete because the tiles to the north of the intersection are not showing up properly.
There are no tiles to the north at all. My previous was refering a follow up to this project after
QuoteJust a ? concerning Turning Lanes, when we build those Turnings, will we be able to choose which roads and streets have turning lanes? Instead of everyone interestion with turning lanes?
Needing an answer to for this project, being wrongfully told its unrelevant.
*falls over on floor*
This is what I need! I cannot wait for this!
cool i wanted stuff like this very much thanks ;D &apls
The anticipation is killing me!
Quote from: vistla on March 07, 2008, 09:37:37 PM
The anticipation is killing me!
Well, hopefully that's not a literal statement. We can't be held liable for injury or death.
QuoteWe can't be held liable for injury or death.
Uh-oh, I hope my insurance covers these sorts of injuries...
Are there any plans on creating an euro version of the whole Turning Lane projects?
Like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg362.imageshack.us%2Fimg362%2F5082%2Ftlaxs5.jpg&hash=62698f7083a9ea07335a4bdc0144906c79ba7b51)
Of course. I think the Euro version would look a little different - I'm not sure, but in any case, I know how it looks here. It's probably going to be done by the SFBT team members who are part of the NAM team.
Well, I don't think that such a thing exists in Europe, at least not in Germany. It shouldn't be too hard to replace the yellow lines with white ones, but I don't have any reference for a European equivalent so far.
Well, Australia uses a similar road marking system to general Europe...
The TLAs I've seen are just single white lines, no dashes on the inside, with those turning arrow thingies in the middle.
I have seen turning lane roads here in Belgium, most of the time they are also used to pass other cars.
I'm already anixous for the release of this project :D. But, I'll just have to wait like everyone else $%Grinno$%. Anyhow, I love the progress on this project. Keep Up the great work. Looking forward to more updates. :)
I think that the european equivalent would be like the australian guy... 2 white lines... and just that... or maybe 4 (2 each side)
the arrow thingies are in every country.... at least im for sure, mexico and USA have arrows in their TLAs
i have an idea... i just came with it right now &idea
how about making the AAM (avenue addon mod)... just like the streets... different asphalt textures... and different meddians!
it would be awesome... along with the TLAs... waaa... i hope it comes true :'(
UK TLA3 .....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz124%2Fmightygoose_2007%2FTLA2.jpg&hash=e82cdf2be3427e9d5006a0d24f75898425dc2028)
Turning Lane Avenues (TLA)/Wider Avenues is coming along great tarkus and co. is there any plan of making narrower avenues divided by only line markings? just putting the idea out on the table.
hey another thing, i only just noticed that the TL avenue has pavement on oneside of the road in the top pic. this is far more realistic.
Quote from: bighead99999 on March 10, 2008, 09:02:58 AM
Turning Lane Avenues (TLA)/Wider Avenues is coming along great tarkus and co. is there any plan of making narrower avenues divided by only line markings? just putting the idea out on the table.
There are. That's basically what the MAVEs (Medianless Avenues) are about. :)
Thanks for all the input on the Euro/International markings end of things as well--it seems like there is a fairly wide variety of different markings, so I'm a little bit uncertain what to do on that end. If anyone else wants to have a crack at "regionalized" textures, though, they are more than welcome to. :D
Quote from: Tarkus on March 10, 2008, 09:10:50 AM
If anyone else wants to have a crack at "regionalized" textures, though, they are more than welcome to. :D
Well, this was mentioned before in the TLA thread @ ST, but these are what "Suicide lanes" (the centre turn lanes) look like here in Canada:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onthighways.com%2Fhwy_3-9_images%2F6_cl_91_south.jpg&hash=2dd0c6e668d5f25ead1d7de27bf2657e19763ca0)
Its similar to the USA, but the difference is that the broken yellow line is on the outside, rather than in the inside. This lets motorists know they can enter this lane.
-For example, on a 2 lane road, if the solid yellow line was facing you, even though it is broken on the other side, it means that you cannot enter the other lane (in your direction). However, if the line was broken on your side and solid on the other, it means you can. Thats why, when it comes to TLAs, the broken line is on the outside here rather than inside in the USA.
-It is from that prospective that I am puzzled why American roads having them in the inside. I am guessing that it shows that you cannot use this lane for passing, but you can enter it to make a turn.
Anyways, just thought I should show a photo to request the texture. I don't have a problem using the "USA" version when the TLA first comes out, but I am assuming that it shouldn't be too difficult to make a Canadian version. All you would have to do is move the broken yellow lines from the inside to the outside, right?
Best,
-Haljackey
As a fellow Canadian, Haljackey, I do detest the broken line on the inside rather than the Canadian outside. But we must deal with what we have. Burgess has been kind enough to supply us with his American version textures. When we are able to get this finally released it will essentially be upto someone else to make a similar texture replacement mod such as the Euro Mod to make a 2nd version of the textures. We the NAM Team Members can only deal with what we are given. ;)
Like I said I don't have a problem with it, the textures look great right now!
-But, how difficult would it be do just move the broken yellow line? Probably not as easy it it seems, eh?
Anyways, I don't really care about lines, traffic lights, etc. too much. Function comes first!
Quote from: Haljackey on March 10, 2008, 09:58:33 AM
Like I said I don't have a problem with it, the textures look great right now!
-But, how difficult would it be do just move the broken yellow line? Probably not as easy it it seems, eh?
Anyways, I don't really care about lines, traffic lights, etc. too much. Function comes first!
Very easy indeed to "move" the lines it is. But time consuming to repackage the DAT file. We will have in excess of 40 textures to edit in the first release alone and it will only expand. These 40 textures do not include wealth and zoom, zoom is done automatically by SC4Tool but wealth we must do ourselves. So, 40 x 4 = 160 textures to edit manually in photoshop, paint, whatever, then package them using SC4Tool. It takes alot of coordination to package an alternate texture such as this. Imagine what myself and Diggis go through with SAM's 8 texture sets and currently at about 45 textures per set. Each set takes probably 2 hours of work to package, atleast. The physical editing of the textures in TLA may be only 1 minute per texture but thats still close to 3 hours of work. Thats atleast 5 hours of making new textures and RULing and testing that Alex and I can do on something else. If you catch my drift.
If one just wanted to do a replacement texture set, they would not have to worry about the RULs, would they? Just be sure the textures are numbered correctly, and in the right order?
With all the free time I usually have, I could do that, All I would need is the base set of textures, the IDs, and a photo of what to replace them with.
No RULs would be needed to make a replacement texture set, but it some very rare cases it may be neccessary. The IIDs of the FSH files would need to be the same as the current ones.
I would be interested in creating some regional textures, i would just like to know how possible/easy/hard it is to create one of them; so if someone would be so kind to post one texture (one with yellow lines) in it so I could experiment before getting into the real work.
Just so I can see how long it will (approx.) take to create the whole set. A straight piece for the TLA-7 would be awesome to experiment with.
Thanks on beforehand,
Casper
Quote from: caspervg on March 10, 2008, 10:49:55 AM
I would be interested in creating some regional textures, i would just like to know how possible/easy/hard it is to create one of them; so if someone would be so kind to post one texture (one with yellow lines) in it so I could experiment before getting into the real work.
Just so I can see how long it will (approx.) take to create the whole set. A straight piece for the TLA-7 would be awesome to experiment with.
Thanks on beforehand,
Casper
This is the TLA-5 Wealth $$$ Straight piece.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg228.imageshack.us%2Fimg228%2F5125%2Fstriaght5d04b130rv6.png&hash=b04159a23c8c3dcbf60604daddf5223258abbf3e)
There are some general Transit Rules to remember when making textures:
- Sidewalks are NOT part of the general texture.
- Grass IS part of the general texture to define the different wealths.
- A secondary texture called an ALPHA Texture is what is used to create the Sidewalks. (I will explain more when that time comes for those invovled, maybe with a tutorial in the future).
- Textures are easier to be made with Photoshop or Paintshop Pro by making use of layers. And should be saved in PNG format.
- There are a minimum of 4 wealths for each texture, No Wealth, $, $$ and $$$. (The best way to start is by creating a No wealth texture which has no grass and a transparent background behind the Road surface. I can help with the 3 grass wealths later when we have a base set created).
Please take these things into consideration BEFORE you start making Transit Textures.
I'd say the most important thing when creating/editing such textures is to be organized. If you name every single file properly according to the ID it will have in the DAT files, then half of the work is basically done already. Processing/packaging them as DAT requires some work, but it doesn't require much skills. You need some stamina and a good eye, so you won't pick the wrong files all the time, but it's more or less assembly line work. Same goes for creating the different wealth level textures; you can create one as a template, and then copy the edited parts to all other wealth levels (usually four different files per texture).
I don't want to be mean or rude or anything like that, but I would really appreciate it if you didn't just re-color my work and post it as yours - even if credit is given.
Please feel free to contact me with any questions you may have. Thanks!
Odd, I didn't know that marking was distinctly Canadian... A few setups like that in the Chicago suburbs have the dotted lines on the outside, and older ones one the inside. I figured they'd just switched recently to be less confusing...
jp, do you have some photoshop files of the various layers?
The ones you sent me didn't include an entire tile of grass or plain pavement...
-Crissa
Quote from: Crissa on March 10, 2008, 04:33:20 PMjp, do you have some photoshop files of the various layers?
The ones you sent me didn't include an entire tile of grass or plain pavement...
-Crissa
Yes, I do have the grass bases in one PSD file.
What I do is take the Road Surface portion of the texture someone has made for me and set it on the top layer. Then I turn off the layers and save as the 4 different wealth. No wealth has no grass so all grass layers would be turned off when I save it.
burgsabre: Okay, no problem. Sorry.
hell, i might have a go. picked up corel paint just the other day. (sick of using windows paint)
You mean
PS-P, right?
Hover over the acronym if you're confused.
~~Dragonshardz~~
That would, uhh, be really handy to have, jp.
Might even make my offerings look useful.
-Crissa
The base for what my regional interpretation. I don't think it will ever exist in reality however.
Please notice that I created 1x1 parks with the texture on it, and these have no functionality at all (plain texture)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg187.imageshack.us%2Fimg187%2F6641%2Fregtla0000rk1.jpg&hash=0e7f24db0f5d856f61c2d759cb0450523f696a0e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg168.imageshack.us%2Fimg168%2F5393%2Fregtla0001hd5.jpg&hash=ee7c8ddc7b62138f6cb6570559aef440e3371aea)
@ Dragonshardz: how did you implement the acronym in your post?
Very good caspervg... These can be made useful :satisfied:
@casper: it's some fairly simple coding.
[acronym=PaintShop Pro]PS-P[/acronym]This code gives you the acronym I used. Just replace "PS-P" with your acronym and "PaintShop Pro" with what the acronym stands for.
Thus, Network Addon Mod becomes
NAMCoding:
[acronym=Network Addon Mod]NAM[/acronym]And now back to the topic at hand. Casper, it looks great and will most likely be used for the inevitable Euro mod. But, anyone who nags about this PLEASE remember that Tarkus, Jp, and the others are focusing on FUNCTION first and aesthetics second.
~~Dragonshardz~~
Quote from: dragonshardz on March 11, 2008, 04:22:47 PM
You mean PS-P, right?
Hover over the acronym if you're confused.
~~Dragonshardz~~
was this msg for me or jp?
anyway its not photoshop. its corel photo paint-a step down from photohop in my opinion
i may use this texture in one of my road constructions lots. ill keep you all informed.
It was or you. and PS-P stands for PaintShop Pro, made by corel.
Photo Paint is lesser than Paintshop Pro...
-Crissa
paint.net is free to own, and easy to learn and use. The program is basically a free photoshop, and loads a lot quicker, which is great for texturing, because that alone can take time, but a little late to suggest that though. It seems alot of people want in on doing texture work here.
Quote from: el_cozui have an idea... i just came with it right now
how about making the AAM (avenue addon mod)... just like the streets... different asphalt textures... and different meddians!
it would be awesome... along with the TLAs... waaa... i hope it comes true
el_cozu hits it right on the head. Is this going to turn into AAM? Where there will be more than one set of avenue textures perhaps ones with center turn lanes, or is this an exclussive project?
Quote from: j-dub on March 14, 2008, 08:33:19 AM
el_cozu hits it right on the head. Is this going to turn into AAM? Where there will be more than one set of avenue textures perhaps ones with center turn lanes, or is this an exclussive project?
no... it is not exclussive... I actually said this idea just to give the NAM team another project to start anytime.
I dont know... maybe after the RHW v 21 they can start on this project... since they are just overrides like the TLAs and the SAM... then... i dont think is hard to make this project come true...
Is just a starting point... ideas... &idea... then... it turns to photoshopped images... then into textures and transit lots... etc... until someday it will be out on the next nam XD
Quote from: el_cozu on March 14, 2008, 10:08:23 AM
Is just a starting point... ideas... &idea... then... it turns to photoshopped images... then into textures and transit lots... etc... until someday it will be out on the next nam XD
You should read the original post of this thread... It explains what Tarkus and I have been discussing and planning for this project. It wont be renamed to "AAM" it will stay TLA and there will be Wider Avenues aswell which will be bundled with this project together. We are working on getting a few things together on this already, it is one of the higher priority projects right now ahead of RHW v21 and SAM v3. ;)
Who knows how far we will get with it off the start, but we will see something more than likely with the next release of NAM Products, whenever that may be. &idea
We have ideas coming out the you know what and just not enough time for us to implement our ideas... We have envisioned quite a bit of things, some you guys havent even mentioned yet. ::)
For those who are wanting to learn how to Transit Texture... I have made a basic tutorial to read before you get too deep into it. Follow this link:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4140.msg129985;topicseen#msg129985 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4140.msg129985;topicseen#msg129985)
hi i'm new in this forum, how do this proyect goes??
pd sorry for my english
Quote from: tacall on March 22, 2008, 11:39:53 AM
hi i'm new in this forum, how do this proyect goes??
It's still being worked on. Tarkus will be posting updates when he can. ;)
Posting from my hotel in Barcelona :D
I have not seen ONE SINGLE TLA in spain since i got here last wendesday! Not one in Madrid, Sevilla, Granada, Córdoba, Costa del Sol or Barcelona!
BUT! I have seen here in Barcelona an 10-lane undivided road or avenue or whatever you wanna call it with lanes that can be reversed at different times, with directions given by lighted signs over the lanes. I am SURE that this really is what i think it is because there are sets of orange arrows pointing both directions in the lane. There are six such lanes. They have different sorts of lines indicating them..between the two center lanes, there is a really long dashed double white line. One lane out, and also indicating the edge of the outermost switchable lane, there is a double dashed white line the same length as the one indicating parallel traffic.
I do not have any pictures available yet, but I will post them as soon as I can.
-said the nerd
yeah, we have that in arlington, texas (near where the new dallas cowboys stadium is being built). it really helps for traffic flow...it works much like some of the HOV lanes. where you take up a lane on the side going opposite direction of the majority of traffic to add the HOV in. This is can be see on I-30 in Dallas, and on I-495 (the LIE) in NYC.
Also I have seen that on I-395 in the Washington, DC metro area, but that is a separate set of lanes with either grass or jersey barriers separating them from the lanes that are always going the same direction.
Working on getting ahold of the pictures.
I kind of imagine the MAVE-4 as avenues that are carbon copies of SimCity Societies roads. Am I right? :)
Yes but w/better texturing.
I'm very excited about this particular project, and am looking forward to it's release. I was wondering, however, if the new avenues will show up in the regional view, or not (like the RHW)? If not,....does anyone know why?
vistla, to answer your question, yes, the new avenues that are part of this project will show up in the Regional Transport View, as they're based on the Road network. The issue with the RHW is that it's based on a "hidden" network that Maxis left incomplete, so they didn't program it to show up in the region map.
Hope that answers your question!
-Alex (Tarkus)
The one question I
did have has been answered by your table in the OP.
(I was going to ask about the possibility of something akin to the
MAVE-6... I saw the table and thought to check. Whaddayaknow... No rush of course, get the normal stuff functioning first, but just thought you'd want to know that there is indeed demand for it at least here... Also looking forward to the ordinary AVE-6 and MAVE-4 as well as AVE-2.
Again, no rush, get the important parts functional first (as in the actual TLAs). Speaking of which, great work thus far!
Cool! Thanks for your response.
Just Curious, How are u guys coming along with the TLA Project? havent heard anything in a while on it as far as updates goes.
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on April 27, 2008, 05:54:26 PM
Just Curious, How are u guys coming along with the TLA Project? havent heard anything in a while on it as far as updates goes.
It's kind of been on the backburner, due to other projects. We'll get back to this one soon. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Quote from: Tarkus on April 27, 2008, 06:05:04 PM
We'll get back to this one soon. ;)
And indeed we have. ;)
Here's a peek at one of the Avenue/TLA-5 intersections.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F9448%2Ftla042920081hc6.jpg&hash=4d7f022d9b6546fa824140d70c22e5ce6912c3e3)
-Alex (Tarkus)
awesome T-intersection :)
Good stuff, but one question, shouldn't the avenue that is intersecting have only 2 lanes, one going left and one going right? Great job though, the Asymmetrical looks nice too. &apls
(I never understood why the signals were at the front of the intersection... in VA, ours are at the end, I hope you understand what I mean.)
| |
| |
signal not here>_|you |_
__ __
signal here> | |
&apls :thumbsup: loooks perfect Alex!!!
Well, I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember there being some limitation to the game where street signals could not be placed at the far end of intersections...perhaps a more Transit Mod-savvy member here can point out the details. ;)
Looking real great by the way Alex, can't wait to be surprised with this one as you have so many others!! :thumbsup:
The signals have to be on the tiles that the traffic is stopping at, which happens to be the near side of avenue x avenue intersections. The reason is because of the stop points that are in the path files for the tiles of the intersections. So, the signals have to be located on the tiles that have the stop points, which happen to be on the near side of all intersections. Only on single tile intersections can you mount the signals across from the cars.
Technically, we could put stop points on the tiles for the far side of the intersections, but then you would have cars stopping out in the middle of the intersections. $%Grinno$%
-Swamper
Quote from: mapper on April 30, 2008, 06:51:32 PM
Good stuff, but one question, shouldn't the avenue that is intersecting have only 2 lanes, one going left and one going right? Great job though, the Asymmetrical looks nice too. &apls
(I never understood why the signals were at the front of the intersection... in VA, ours are at the end, I hope you understand what I mean.)
| |
| |
signal not here>_|you |_
__ __
signal here> | |
Beside the reason that Swamper77 said, there's another reason why it should be at this side of the road. It's very common (in Europe) to put the signals at the stop points, and not on the opposite side of the intersection. I think it's strange to put the signals at that point (but that's my point of view ::))
Best,
MRTNRLN
actually as far as the UK goes the norm is to have lights in both places at busy intersections.
Quote from: mrtnrln on May 01, 2008, 01:25:11 AM
Beside the reason that Swamper77 said, there's another reason why it should be at this side of the road. It's very common (in Europe) to put the signals at the stop points, and not on the opposite side of the intersection. I think it's strange to put the signals at that point (but that's my point of view ::))
Best,
MRTNRLN
Well...here it's easier for most to have the lights on the opposite side of the stop point. Reason being, everyone in red cars feels obligated to stop about 3 or so feet past the white line marking where you're supposed to stop...and thus couldn't see the signals if they were right at the stop point. :D
Quote from: yoshiisland2 on May 01, 2008, 11:16:23 AM
Well...here it's easier for most to have the lights on the opposite side of the stop point. Reason being, everyone in red cars feels obligated to stop about 3 or so feet past the white line marking where you're supposed to stop...and thus couldn't see the signals if they were right at the stop point. :D
Thats exactly the reason I was going to state. ;D
Oh, if the stop points indicate the signal placement, then there really isn't much we can do, which is a bummer, but thats ok. Would it be possible to place a dummy signal on the opposite side? Would it not be functional(red, yellow green changes)?
Or perhaps some sort of overhanging prop, so that the game thinks its at the stop point, but it looks like it's over the opposite side?
There always is the possiblity of making dummy signals or new animated signals all together that don't work off the game's stoppoints. At the same time, peoples ideas of traffic lights are different. With this alone, this might be a completely different project leading away from the TLA, especially the possibility to make new animated siganals. In persepective, the games traffic lights are unreal, because they are flat, plus they don't have cups around the lights. If they did have cups sized to RL, I don't think we should be able to see the lights anyway, thats why I take advantage of using alternate models for avenue intersections. Just for the heck of it to see if Swampper was right, I did try doing multiple avenue intersection with traffic lights on stop points across after, and I noticed the cars DON'T block the intersection, because the red lights some how are timed the same length, see pics below. When the lights are already red, in many instances, the automatta just dissapears anyway. What Swampper said seems to work. The first pic they are in fact blowing the red light. The second pic is a red light after the avenuexavenue intersection, timed the same, as is the last one as another example of paralel timing. This is debatable and has to be tried. Others may want this, but personally I like how the TLA already is without this modification.
I agree what you said about the stoplights. The stoplights in SimCity 4 face OUT when they normally face in, with the exception of one Waco,TX intersection where the lights were facing out to aid those who were possibly stuck farther back in the line. Unfortunately, without pictures, it doesn't say much.
Then again in real life, if every community did traffic lights the SC4 avenue way with them before the crosswalk, this could be a major life saving solution to prevent running red lights, I'd rather go with traffic lights that way, then the hated red light cameras.
The only problem I can see with that is that well, the leading car can't see the lights so they don't know if it's turned green or not.
Its debatable. I have seen multiple intersections where sometimes, the one side doesn't even have a signal, just a stop sign. Below is a real pic of the signal before the intersection.
A while ago I worked out a way to offset the position of a traffic light. I made it so that it showed up at an offset from its actual position, and it still worked correctly.
The downside of this is that it would require some tedious work to offset the traffic lights more than a short distance (>5m)
Is anyone interested in this?
I am, I've always been frustrated at how the stoplights are positioned.
On a side note, perhaps a mod or admin should move posts concerning stoplight props to a new thread, because we are going pretty far off topic here.
I'd do it myself, but I'm just a 3RR Team Member. No administrative powers except in the 3RR Honors Thread....which needs to be updated.
And I'm going OT. :thumbsdown: to me! :D
~~Dragonshardz~~
@Smoncrie, You mean the added stoppoint on the tile after the avenue intersection tile right? Maybe there should be a poll else where to see if more people would be in favor of this idea, because it sounds like that alone is getting popular.
j-dog, the side street has a stop sign because the road traffic is not sufficient enough for a full traffic light. The signals here are controlling the crosswalk. I see this multiple times in BC and these intersections can also be differentiated by the flashing green light here.
Wow this looks cool. It seems to me that in the intersection you just posted (the TLA 5 i think), you are trying to make two different traffic lights. Here's what I mean.
You have 3 lights, the first one is a left turn signal, the other two are regular. At the beginning of the sequence,
the left turn signals of both sides (or one in a T intersection) turn green while the regulars turn red. Afterwards the regulars turn green while the left turn one's turn red. Then when the regulars turn red, the other road does its sequence
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F9448%2Ftla042920081hc6.jpg&hash=4d7f022d9b6546fa824140d70c22e5ce6912c3e3)
Left on green arrow only
Edgware, you actually like that? Getting stuck at one of these left turn signal lights, with the extra amount of time you have to wait doesn't bother you?
Left turn on green arrow only, now really? If yes, that would be cool programing, but in reality there is always chance of getting stuck for longer, an emergency vehicle or train passes by, the censors broke, or some jerk blocks me at the last minute, so I try to go to intersections below as much as possible, because it all has happened to me. Okay no ones looking, no traffic cams, floor it!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FCashville-Oct.28321201664265.jpg&hash=0d7bf2bc60ff6697a8a0461a3a272c48f957c953)
(just a example idea)
j-dub,
I did not change the stop point.
I made the traffic light into an offset prop; the point where you see the traffic light is different from the point were the prop is placed.
I did not change the position of the modified prop, so it was still on the stop point, and its timing and the flow of traffic did not change. But since it was an offset prop, you could see the traffic light over a different part of the intersection.
This is, in effect, a trick that allows one to "move" the traffic light without changing its behaviour.
smoncrie, that is really quite interesting to hear--I had always wondered if there was some way to offset the signals.
To go further off-topic . . . or is it on-topic? . . . decide for yourselves . . . ::)
I made a few little "modifications" to the TLA-3 texture and came up with . . . this . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg369.imageshack.us%2Fimg369%2F5379%2Fowr3050420082vb3.jpg&hash=a440a6abb185adba11a0e774c07e162956faded6)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg369.imageshack.us%2Fimg369%2F3743%2Fowr3050420081da1.jpg&hash=f1d74f0ba20a9b96f447499f41717be22ee15ecb)
As you can see it's pathed. Orthogonal-only at the minute, though that will change. ;)
-Alex
Quote from: Edgware on May 04, 2008, 06:34:27 PM
Wow this looks cool. It seems to me that in the intersection you just posted (the TLA 5 i think), you are trying to make two different traffic lights. Here's what I mean.
You have 3 lights, the first one is a left turn signal, the other two are regular. At the beginning of the sequence,
the left turn signals of both sides (or one in a T intersection) turn green while the regulars turn red. Afterwards the regulars turn green while the left turn one's turn red. Then when the regulars turn red, the other road does its sequence
The game cannot support complex stoplight sequencing like that. It is only capable of going through a normal stoplight cycle (green-yellow-red) on one axis of an intersection before starting the sequence on the other axis. You can make left turn signals with arrows, but they will be green at the same time that the thru traffic signals are green. It is a limitation of the EXE.
-Swamper
@Tarkus, thats awesome, W.O.W. It may not be 5 lanes, but this might just make the people waiting in the wider one way forum happy to see that is being developed.
oooh alex you tease!!!! that is simply wonderful!!!
I have an announcement to make:
The TLA thread is now officially the Network Widening Mod (NWM) Project thread. The NWM will encompass the TLA/Wider Avenues project, in addition to the Wider OWRs and the ARD (Asymmetrical Road, formerly SLR), and all of these networks will now be showcased here on this thread.
The RHW/MIS will continue as a separate but related project.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Its about time to do some house cleaning Alex!!! sweet so all the loss projects are now one that is will make it so much easier to follow I do believe....
- TLA/Wider ave
- Wider OWR's
- ARD former SLR
are officially the new NWM, I like that alot Alex, but one question is what about SPM wouldn't that benefit to consolidation as well?
j-dub and Pat, thanks for the support!
Quote from: Pat on May 04, 2008, 11:31:09 PM
one question is what about SPM wouldn't that benefit to consolidation as well?
Well, the SPM is really kind of a different animal--it deals with the Maxis networks as well, and I think it would be best to keep it as a separate add-on. It will eventually support the NWM networks, though. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Tarkus.. YOU ARE A GOD!!!!!....
thankyou, what youve done here is amazing ;)
Joe
Quote from: star.torturer on May 05, 2008, 02:43:41 AM
Tarkus.. YOU ARE A GOD!!!!!....
thankyou, what youve done here is amazing ;)
Joe
Quote from: Pat on May 04, 2008, 09:51:31 PM
oooh alex you tease!!!! that is simply wonderful!!!
What can I do if not agree to these messages.... Alex you rock!
3 lane one ways???
Wow! Awesome... just awesome! Brilliant work Tarkus!
WOW!
That's all I can say about the NWM. Keep on going!
when this can be used by us?
sure,I asked how long......
hey gaotingguxiu, have you read the first post?
Quote from: Tarkus on May 03, 2007, 08:47:23 PM
NWM PROJECT
Current Status--No public version available. Development on the project is currently ongoing on the initial release, Version 1. It and all further releases of the NWM, adding new features and functionality, will be made available when they are ready. We cannot, however, give a definite release date or timeline.
Very very cool &apls &apls &apls
Only very very cool? I think it deserves something a bit more like... this:
Wow! This is actually happening! This is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!111oneone :o :o
OK, maybe that was a bit energetic, but hey, words don't really begin to describe the awesomeness the NAM and it's many additions and separate add-ons are adding to this game. It's like we already have Sim City 5 here! Of course, this raises the question "Why do we even
need Sim City 5 if we have such a talented modding community here?"
I for one actually am waiting to see if Maxis will actually get off their lazy bums and give us a real Sim City sequel instead of Societies...
great work here.. when it will be released? :)
Quote from: gn_leugim on May 05, 2008, 10:43:55 AM
great work here.. when it will be released? :)
My best guess: When it's done. :)
Glad to see the consolidation here, Alex! You've got a ton of great projects happening simultaneously, this should make things a bit easier for you. At least I hope it does! Good luck, and I'll be looking forward to seeing more development, my friend!
Dustin
Quote from: Andreas on May 05, 2008, 11:19:49 AM
My best guess: When it's done. :)
but when month or day??? :'( :'( :'(
Quote from: j-dub on May 04, 2008, 07:17:41 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F9448%2Ftla042920081hc6.jpg&hash=4d7f022d9b6546fa824140d70c22e5ce6912c3e3)
Left on green arrow only
Edgware, you actually like that? Getting stuck at one of these left turn signal lights, with the extra amount of time you have to wait doesn't bother you?
Left turn on green arrow only, now really? If yes, that would be cool programing, but in reality there is always chance of getting stuck for longer, an emergency vehicle or train passes by, the censors broke, or some jerk blocks me at the last minute, so I try to go to intersections below as much as possible, because it all has happened to me. Okay no ones looking, no traffic cams, floor it!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FCashville-Oct.28321201664265.jpg&hash=0d7bf2bc60ff6697a8a0461a3a272c48f957c953)
(just a example idea)
Yeah that's what i meant. Now, not to say that i enjoy that kind of red arrow even when the regular is green but.
If you're trying to make it more realistic, this is what is normally done at the intersection of very wide roads. I mean you could also have one of those "Left turn yield on green" things. The reason one would do that is too avoid a collision. In this picture | that you posted j-dub,
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg518.imageshack.us%2Fimg518%2F9448%2Ftla042920081hc6.jpg&hash=4d7f022d9b6546fa824140d70c22e5ce6912c3e3)
it seems that the left arrow is red while regulars are green. Which is more realistic, I'm just asking if I need glasses or if I saw the picture correctly.
Yes, Edgware, there is indeed a red light there on that third signal. I'm not entirely certain why, as my understanding of the way traffic signals work in-game is only moderate, but my guess would be because that particular signal is on the next tile over, it can be phased differently as a result. I've noticed this happening with the Avenue Turning Lanes, as well as the various TLA intersections I've managed to complete and signalize. Swamper or smoncrie may have a better explanation.
-Alex (Tarkus)
thats way to sexy! stop teasing us! :thumbsup:
Oh I thought was intentional. Because, a good amount of real traffic signals do work that way. The roads are so wide that is is very dangerous to simply have people turning left while the opposite direction is going straight. So I ask are you planning to do anything with a turning phase in the lights?
It could just be a result of loading. Occasionally I still see that happen with the left turn lanes in my game. When I first get to that area, the light over the turn lane might get stuck, but then corrects itself when the two lights on the right change after. A turning phase would be cool for any video game simulated traffic. They tried to use the turn arrow lights I picutured in Transformers the game, but those light with the arrow under the green, just were stuck. What this amounts to is, I don't think any game with a simulated traffic system could do this, so no one may know how to program this. EXE is limited.
yeah, it does seem a bit unlikely that it's even possible in the game. if however you do manage to find a way to impement that system, that would make traffic flow better and prevent accidents.
Thanks guys for giving us an update from this project. I love all the new pictures and different types of roads you guys have outlined. Keep Up The Great Work and keep those updates coming!!
Quote from: Tarkus on May 05, 2008, 02:20:00 PM
Yes, Edgware, there is indeed a red light there on that third signal. I'm not entirely certain why, as my understanding of the way traffic signals work in-game is only moderate, but my guess would be because that particular signal is on the next tile over, it can be phased differently as a result. I've noticed this happening with the Avenue Turning Lanes, as well as the various TLA intersections I've managed to complete and signalize. Swamper or smoncrie may have a better explanation.
-Alex (Tarkus)
This is just a "hiccup" from the game when the signal is close to the opposite side of the avenue. After the first cycle of the intersection, it fixes itself and the signal is back in phase with the others.
While it would be nice to have protected left turns, the game is far too simplistic in it's engine to support that. :(
-Swamper
Excellent work! I want to thank you for your efforts to make better our game, thanks! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Andreas on May 05, 2008, 11:19:49 AM
My best guess: When it's done. :)
was that what i though ;D
Quote from: Swamper77 on May 05, 2008, 07:09:07 PM
This is just a "hiccup" from the game when the signal is close to the opposite side of the avenue. After the first cycle of the intersection, it fixes itself and the signal is back in phase with the others.
While it would be nice to have protected left turns, the game is far too simplistic in it's engine to support that. :(
-Swamper
Oh I see. Yeah, they probably do have the technology, but this game is too old. Maybe when the real sim city 5 comes out it will be possible.
So is that a straight signal or does it have an arrow.
Quote from: Edgware on May 06, 2008, 01:46:51 PM
Oh I see. Yeah, they probably do have the technology, but this game is too old. Maybe when the real sim city 5 comes out it will be possible.
So is that a straight signal or does it have an arrow.
It is just a straight signal, and a single prop at that. There are three single traffic signal props, one over each lane.
-Swamper
oh ok i understand. anyways project looks cool, you guys are doing a good job :thumbsup:
A Question concerning these new NWM. When the project is completed, Will we be able to decide What type of Avenue,Road or even OWRs be? Just Curious.
Most likely the new "networks" will not replace anything, so you can have all of them.
Aesome work on the OWR-3 (?)
Great work. Just some reverse psychology. When will the NWM NOT be out? ;) By the way, how's the progress on the RULs coming along?
lol well it wont be out tomorrow :D
Quote from: debutterfly on May 07, 2008, 09:14:11 AM
Great work. Just some reverse psychology. When will the NWM NOT be out? ;) By the way, how's the progress on the RULs coming along?
Well, we have gotten one of the biggest advances as of recent worked out. For about 3 months Tarkus and I have been sharing test RULs for the TLA-5 Intersections, such as:
4way and T Intersections: TLA-5/TLA-5
TLA-5/TLA-3
TLA-5/Road
TLA-5/Street
TLA-5/OWR
TLA-5/Avenue
The intersections are the hardest part of RULing. Especially with this project since TLA-3 and TLA-5 and Road are all based on the same network.. These intersections are very, very finicky when it comes to RULing them (pun intended). The RULs for these intersections caused much grief and delay in this project and Tarkus decided to try a different approach than we had been going earlier and to our surprise was able to make the stability in these intersections much, much stronger.
Now, what is required is a plan of attack on how to implement corners and then diagonals. There will be no release before the diagonals are done. The diagonals are the next hurdle so to speak and we currently are debating what the best way to implement them will be.
______________________________________________
As for when will it "NOT" be out?
Pat is right, it wont be out tomorrow. But you can expect a preliminary release sometime around when the Diagonals are figured out. I think we have just passed the 1 year mark where this project was officially announced as being "started". So, lets hope the Diagonal RULs dont take as long as the Intersection RULs.
Cool JP, cant wait for the next update.
i really like this, this will take the game to a new dimension :thumbsup: great work guys!!! &apls &apls
very nice ,I'm looking forward to it ,I like it
Good luck with RUL-ing the diagonals.
I for one will be waiting very patiently for everything to get done and to be released. Sofar, I must say you guys are doing a great job with this. Keep it up and good luck. JKB
&apls
Good luck on diagonals.
Thanks for the progress report, Jason. I'll be waiting patiently, as always, my friend!
Dustin
The link is broken....
Quote from: pilotdaryl on May 07, 2008, 07:56:17 PM
The link is broken....
*makes habit to never click tinyurl links*
Here is why (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickroll) (and my guess to the "broken link"). Am I correct?
What link? ;) :D
Just trying to inject some laughter into everyone's day here.
Tarkus will the OWR-3 be in the first release?
This is Terrific work, I cannot wait until it is released
These are great. Can't wait to use these new toys uhhh... tools ;D.
I for
two will be
Quote from: bakerton on May 07, 2008, 03:17:28 PM
waiting very patiently for everything to get done and to be released. Sofar, I must say you guys are doing a great job with this. Keep it up and good luck. JKB
Good job so far, I see a lot of TLAs and TLRs where I live...but then in Salem there is a road with four total lanes: one going east, then the next is the turning lane, then two going west. (Not that this matters, i would just as readily use a RD-4, or whatever a four-lane road with no median strip is abbrevated as)
Hi sincitybaby, there is currently no timetable set for a release of any of these TLA-Aves project. It's still In Progress. We have to wait patiently ok.
Quote from: sincitybaby on May 10, 2008, 07:24:48 PM
Tarkus will the OWR-3 be in the first release?
I can't say for certain, but there's a lot of crossover with the RULs with the TLA-3 and AVE-2, so it's quite possible. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Thank you Tarkus for the quick reply!
Amazing work again!
Thanks for the progress report! :thumbsup: I agree, let's hope it doesn't take too long to do the diagonal RULs...but since I don't do transit modding of any sort other than TEing lots (EDIT: which I do correctly after reading several threads and getting advice on proper TEing techniques :D) I wouldn't really know the steps involved in this awesomeness. ;D
Ahhhhhhh! :o A word of advice to anyone transit enabling lots, you never want to let anyone know about it in NAM developement.
Just a humble question -- when is this glorious stuff going to be released? :)
I'm all about it, I can't wait any longer! &hlp $%Grinno$%
Quote from: Wilfried on May 13, 2008, 11:48:56 AM
Just a humble question -- when is this glorious stuff going to be released? :)
I'm all about it, I can't wait any longer! &hlp $%Grinno$%
When it's done, of course. :D There's no scheduled release date of timeline (as specified in the FAQ above). ;) We like to surprise people . . .
And welcome to SC4D! Good to see another familiar face here. :)
-Alex (Tarkus)
as a matter of fact they do... just like when they released the last NAM... we were all like "OMFG that's so awesome!" hahaha...
but yeah...... just be pacient..... when things begin to get crazy.... here's the NAM team to release all the stuff you wouldnt never imagine
Hey Tarkus, A question concerning the TLA-5 And TLA-7. When we create these new avenues in our cities, will we be able to connect them to each and to neighboring cities? Same question goes for the TLA-3.
Starman, to answer your question, yes. :) The TLA-3, AVE-2 and ARD-3 will more or less connect into the next city just like normal. You'll have to re-initiate the override in the neighboring tile with the starter piece there, as the override can't cross the city borders, unfortunately.
The TLA-5 and TLA-7 and all the other 2 and 3-tile networks will require some sort of workaround, similar to the "loop connector" method I showed for the RHW, which you'd then "disguise" through a special puzzle piece.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Quote from: Tarkus on May 13, 2008, 02:08:02 PM
Starman, to answer your question, yes. :) The TLA-3, AVE-2 and ARD-3 will more or less connect into the next city just like normal. You'll have to re-initiate the override in the neighboring tile with the starter piece there, as the override can't cross the city borders, unfortunately.
The TLA-5 and TLA-7 and all the other 2 and 3-tile networks will require some sort of workaround, similar to the "loop connector" method I showed for the RHW, which you'd then "disguise" through a special puzzle piece.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Will this interconnect with the rhw...say some puzzle peices that branch out like AVE - MIS - RHW ?
Quote from: Tarkus on May 13, 2008, 02:08:02 PM
Starman, to answer your question, yes. :) The TLA-3, AVE-2 and ARD-3 will more or less connect into the next city just like normal. You'll have to re-initiate the override in the neighboring tile with the starter piece there, as the override can't cross the city borders, unfortunately.
The TLA-5 and TLA-7 and all the other 2 and 3-tile networks will require some sort of workaround, similar to the "loop connector" method I showed for the RHW, which you'd then "disguise" through a special puzzle piece.
-Alex (Tarkus)
just like the RHW... they do connect to the neighbor... but you have to put the starter piece in the new city... am i right?
Previously hello.
Are you planning interchanges for NWM? (especially cloverleaf, stack and diamond interchanges?) And also bigger roundabouts or rounabout Interchange :D
I doubt it...The regular plain ol' four-way intersections will be hard enough, let alone having a MIS for TLAs
No updates in a while, just wondering, hows the mod going?
Its going and will be finished when its finished.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Edgware on May 23, 2008, 07:24:47 PM
No updates in a while, just wondering, hows the mod going?
Right now I'm focusing on the RHW (Version 21) and the Fractional Angle Road/Rail pieces. I've done some work with the TLAs in the meanwhile, but it's mostly just making the existing stuff I've shown here function better--stuff that doesn't come across at all in pictures. A lot of what I'm currently working on with the RHW (stuff which I can't quite show yet . . . ;)) will transfer over to this project, too.
I do have quite a lot going on modding-wise right now, so inevitably, sometimes some stuff will get shifted to the background for awhile. But don't worry, I will most definitely be returning to this project at some point in the not-so-distant future.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Well, keep on RULin'! I look forward to this project being released.
(i know that's not your CML, but it gets the point across)
I'm very interested in this!!! :)
3 questions...: ()what()
1. Are you near to realesing the NWM v. 1??
2. Do all of the networks have a functional neighbour connection??
3. Can you connect all of the networks to the original network type?? (ex. OWR-3 to OWR-2 the normall OWR)
Quote from: un1 on May 30, 2008, 01:22:05 PM
I'm very interested in this!!! :)
3 questions...: ()what()
1. Are you near to realesing the NWM v. 1??
2. Do all of the networks have a functional neighbour connection??
3. Can you connect all of the networks to the original network type?? (ex. OWR-3 to OWR-2 the normall OWR)
Did you read the previous posts just above yours? ;)
NWM will be released when ready, none so far and neighbor connections are funtional you just have to restart with another started piece in the new city. As for the third question im not 100% sure about so I won't answer.
be patient! remember that they aren't paid for doing this.. you should be very thankful when this comes to public one day, because this is done with hard work, made only because they like to and they like to share ;) btw, keep going your great work :thumbsup:
I certainly will be grateful. I'm mainly looking forward to the Turning Lane Roads, the MAVEs, and the TLAs.
Hey, that's some of the stuff on my Next Generation Simcity Wishlist!
Thanks a lot :thumbsup:
BTW, will there be a transition piece from the TLRs into normal roads like in real life?
A while back i remember someone posted a tla3 to road transistion. so i think thats gonna happen.
Yup, they sure did.
Quote from: burgsabre87 on February 28, 2008, 09:37:46 PM(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F155%2Froadtlr3transitionwt6.png&hash=3e1e6abb0b55b65a4e05e5235be713d4f08c7129)
Of course its gonna happen, its right here.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg513.imageshack.us%2Fimg513%2F6365%2Fu284qc4.jpg&hash=0cad53bd373ab569cef726912a2d15e7300495da)
Wow that looks cool. I see that currently the max size road planned is the tla 7, are there any bigger ones planned?
&apls Then my question has been answered. Press on, modders!
awesome ;)
Fantastic Update on the NWM. Keep those updates coming!!!
Hi Tarkus, ::)
Can you post in this thread some pic's of the TLA 7 intersections with another TLA ... just for have a look of what it 'll do... &hlp
Thanks.
Awesome Work!!! &apls
- Cape44 :thumbsup:
cape44, thanks for the compliments (and for linking this thread in your sig)! I appreciate it. :thumbsup:
I would post a pic of the TLA-7 intersections with other TLAs, but unfortunately, we haven't gotten to that stage of development yet. :D The TLA-7 hasn't been a focus, so it hasn't really progressed any since those orthogonal section prototype pics shown in the stickied post. And it probably won't be revisited much until NWM Version 2 begins development. Which is really jumping ahead, since we still have a long ways to go before even Version 1 can come out.
Everyone following this project: At this point, I've got two other fairly large-scale projects going on--the RHW and a series of new curve and Fractional Angle puzzle pieces. And RL has gotten a bit in the way of both of those projects recently. I think jplumbley is affected by RL right now as well.
So, for all intents and purposes, the NWM right now is more or less on hiatus at this moment. I will be coming back to it, but I cannot guarantee when that will be. What can I say--we like to surprise people. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
@ Tarkus: okay and thank's for answer! :thumbsup:
"we like to surprise people" We'll see héhé!! &hlp
- Cape44 ::)
stay cool.. take the time you need ;)
As usual, very secretive
Yeah, work and the real world. You know how that goes. No rush. Take it easy then.
I've been keeping an eye on this for a while now and I just wanted to comment and let you guys know that one more person really appreciates all the work that has been put into this already &apls
Just a ? on NWM ver 1. What will we have access to when it finally becomes available?
Whatever gets finished by the time they decide to release it, I suppose.
~~Dragonshardz~~
EDIT: Part of comment was out-of-line. My bad.
Dragonshardz, read what he said, not just assume another 'when will it be ready' question!
Maestro44... maybe you should read what
Nerdly (EDIT: dragonshardz) said... :D
QuoteWhatever gets finished by the time they decide to release it.
tho the "done when it is done" reply was a tad excessive... considering starmanw is not a firstposter in this thread...
Joe
EDIT: woops... sorry
Quote from: star.torturer on June 10, 2008, 01:37:41 PM
Maestro44... maybe you should read what Nerdly said... :D
tho the "done when it is done" reply was a tad excessive... considering starmanw is not a firstposter in this thread...
Joe
Umm...
WHAT??That wasn't me that was dragonshardz...
Quote from: dragonshardz on June 10, 2008, 11:53:25 AM
Whatever gets finished by the time they decide to release it.
And, "it will be released when it's released."
That should do the job nicely.
~~Dragonshardz~~
Quote from: star.torturer on June 10, 2008, 01:37:41 PM
tho the "done when it is done" reply was a tad excessive... considering starmanw is not a firstposter in this thread...
Joe
I agree--I think that the entire post was excessive, and that NAM questions should probably be fielded by members of the NAM team, since they're the most knowledgeable. Let's move on, shall we?
To answer the question at hand, I am not entirely certain what will be in Version 1. Since the project is essentially on hiatus and still rather far from any release, it's hard to tell. The 1-tile networks (TLA-3, AVE-2, ARD-3 and OWR-3--perhaps an OWR-1, too) are pretty safe bets, though. The one feature jplumbley and I had been working on the most heavily was the TLA-5. The TLA-5 is fairly stable at the moment, but it's limited to strictly orthogonal functionality in its current state.
The NWM's initial release will likely have to wait until the new Road Turning Lanes (RTL) Plugin is released (which is also on hold right now), since the NWM is not compatible with the existing NAM RTL. If the NWM were released before, you'd basically have to pick between one or the other, and I'm not sure that's a suitable solution.
Hope that clears things up.
-Alex (Tarkus)
If you ever do release the first verison, I'm fine with a straight only TLA 5. Basically, the two way left turn mod is only straight as well.
Thanks for your reply Tarkus, Just excited about all the projects u guys are doing for the roads of Sim City Nation. Everything looks great. Just Keep Up The Great Work with these projects!!!
@Starman, others: apologies for the excessively...rude is the best word I suppose...comment.
np dragon, this is a great project. Just take your time with this project Tarkus. Like I said in my previous post. All your projects are FANTASTIC!! Keep up the great work.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fnew_mavesliplane.jpg&hash=34c27bb3fef74e5a6e3a282e1fb970960c92e6e4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fnew_mave_road.jpg&hash=ac496f1a559b361967476c33409d6c78a2062fda)
I'm such a tease, aren't I? ::)
There is also a MAVE-6, but I'm dealing with the MAVE-4 first. It should theoretically be possible to combine a MAVE-6 and MAVE-4 to provide a MAVE-5... it just means a single-sided override drag.
:o that looks awesome! Looks heaps more like the 4 lane avenues near where I live. Cannot wait to see MAVE-6!!
thats very nice! :o :thumbsup:
is this the puzzlepiece drag method, or is it dragging 2 transitnetworks next to esch other?
Cool! The grass strip cries for some flora (trees, bushes), though. :)
Awesome,
So when are we going to able to play with ...erm... have the utter most boring job of testing this? ;)
Nice narrow avenue's, just like in Belgium :thumbsup:.
Looks great!
What happened to this btw?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi267.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii281%2Fhaljackey%2Farterial01tb1.jpg&hash=80901c0833f3a6186e90343e47e10a68bee655ba)
Well... the MAVE-4 is just a two-tile version of that. :P
Quote
is this the puzzlepiece drag method, or is it dragging 2 transitnetworks next to esch other?
Currently, it is initiated by drawing 2x OWR next to each other. It'll probably be converted into a puzzle-drag, as currently it may be mutually-exclusive with OWR-5 [to my knowledge, you require 2xOWR for that one also].
:o Muh.. uhh.. thah.... that's AMAZING! I can't wait for American textures! (Not that the European ones are bad...) :thumbsup: Keep it up!
Well I cant wait!!
Now here's another question... ()what()
Will you be able to connect the NWM Mods (ex. MAVE) to MIS and/or convert the OWW to MIS?? Can you build bridges over water with them?? Is there going to be bridge puzzel peices for the type of networks??
Maybe 3 instead... I think one of the questions were awnsered but I don't understand the awnser...
un1: its been answered before (possibly in the top post) maybe you should check around but I believe what your asking about NWM to RHW/MIS is gona get done
Joe
Quote from: Andreas on June 17, 2008, 09:42:26 AM
Cool! The grass strip cries for some flora (trees, bushes), though. :)
Actually, I'd like to see a side street-ish mod that adds parking spaces and cars to it! Looks great!
That transition between MAVE-4 and AVE-4 reminds me of this Rush Hour Promo picture
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi267.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii281%2Fhaljackey%2Fy1pl7-g-hiAFCkFqLqQejASBbAhuUZjP-Us.jpg&hash=fc65b417fea4c4c6489e4af10913b734013b0b27)
Image sourced from Haljackey's SC4 Archives (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4575.0)
(Top left corner)
Quote from: Alfred.Jones on June 18, 2008, 01:05:54 AM
That transition between MAVE-4 and AVE-4 reminds me of this Rush Hour Promo picture
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi267.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii281%2Fhaljackey%2Fy1pl7-g-hiAFCkFqLqQejASBbAhuUZjP-Us.jpg&hash=fc65b417fea4c4c6489e4af10913b734013b0b27)
Image sourced from Haljackey's SC4 Archives (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4575.0)
(Top left corner)
Hmm don't think I ever have seen something like that in my cities. Think they over rated there own expansion :P
Quote from: kassarc16 on June 17, 2008, 05:29:27 PM
Actually, I'd like to see a side street-ish mod that adds parking spaces and cars to it! Looks great!
For medium and high density zones some concrete textures and parking spaces would be nice indeed. :)
The MAVE-4 looks terriffic, S.A.! As i see, there is still some T21 stuff to do.
Wonderful progress guys, please don't stop
-sean
briliant!!!! awesome"!!!! &apls &apls &apls &apls :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
what a big tease =P
great progress by the way =)
- Allan Kuan
great progress. Can't wait for it to come..
And when will it come out??
Just a friendly reminder--please check the FAQ (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg33176#msg33176), which is stickied to the top of every page of the thread. None of the NAM Projects have release dates. We like to surprise people. :-) -Alex
:o :o ;D
Am I allowed to say freaking sweet? ::) Great progress though!! &apls &apls
You are. -Alex
I am? Great! ;D
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on June 17, 2008, 08:49:46 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fnew_mavesliplane.jpg&hash=34c27bb3fef74e5a6e3a282e1fb970960c92e6e4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fnew_mave_road.jpg&hash=ac496f1a559b361967476c33409d6c78a2062fda)
I'm such a tease, aren't I? ::)
There is also a MAVE-6, but I'm dealing with the MAVE-4 first. It should theoretically be possible to combine a MAVE-6 and MAVE-4 to provide a MAVE-5... it just means a single-sided override drag.
I remember that Right Turn Lane in Sim City 3000. When i got SC4 I was pretty disappointed that the diagnoal road right turn lane wasnt on there. The One Tile four lane would work really great for a lot of people in especially crowded residential neighborhoods. Atleast it looks like its one tile. Upgrading a two lane road to a four lane road without having to demolish buildings would be a great advantage. Great Job! :)
hey millenium
what you say about upgrading a 2 to a 4 lane road:
I believe the medianless avenue you see in the picture you quoted takes up 2 tiles. Pity, and maybe they were planning on making a 4 lane road too... %confuso
Joe
Quote from: JoeST on June 24, 2008, 01:23:32 PM
hey millenium
what you say about upgrading a 2 to a 4 lane road:
I believe the medianless avenue you see in the picture you quoted takes up 2 tiles. Pity, and maybe they were planning on making a 4 lane road too... %confuso
Joe
There will be a TLA-3 (one tile), but as for 4-lane one tile... There simply is not enough space on the tile to do such a thing and have a sidewalk. The other thing is a 4-Lane single tile network still would have the same capacity of a 2-laned single network because capacity is based off of the tile, not the number of lanes.
Would it be too much to ask to see if there are plans for TLA-4? like you have two parallel lanes going north, then the turning lane, and then a single lane going south? Cause there's one of those in Salem, VA going east/west. (It's not much of a big deal, but I'd be interested if I could get more uneven, like 6 north lanes and 1 south lane...)
There is also one in Downtown Omaha, 10th St.
I really can't wait for the OWR-3
Quote from: nerdly_dood on June 26, 2008, 11:21:49 AM
Would it be too much to ask to see if there are plans for TLA-4? like you have two parallel lanes going north, then the turning lane, and then a single lane going south? Cause there's one of those in Salem, VA going east/west. (It's not much of a big deal, but I'd be interested if I could get more uneven, like 6 north lanes and 1 south lane...)
There's one of those about five blocks from where I currently live, too. I won't rule out the possibility of ATLAs (Asymmetrical TLAs) eventually being made, but I'd say the chances are rather slim.
-Alex (Tarkus)
you kinda have to allow Tarkus to finish the main parts of the projects before adding on requests, as RL can make it impossible to finish things, which delays the project's release date even further. There hasn't been ever a NWM release, so be patient, as we (well at least I) want some of the basic functionality done and released before we move on to other grander projects.
- Allan Kuan
I hope I can call you Alex...
What you guys have done is just splendid. One question: "WHEN" it comes out will the public be able to make roadtop mass transit for it?
Yes, they can make roadtop mass transit for it. It just means you have to know the path that's needed, I suppose.
I'm glad to hear that, because the AVE-2 could work well as a busway platform with an appropriate lot and props.
I'm also liking the MAVE-4, and I'm glad to hear of a MAVE-6 in the works.
QuoteI won't rule out the possibility of ATLAs (Asymmetrical TLAs) eventually being made, but I'd say the chances are rather slim.
It may be possible to have a MAVE-5... just got to do the overrides for it. :P
Very promising. As a city planner (Not in RL), I will do my best to save space for upgrades to the AVE-5, and OW-3 in my CBD. :) &hlp
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on June 17, 2008, 08:49:46 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fnew_mavesliplane.jpg&hash=34c27bb3fef74e5a6e3a282e1fb970960c92e6e4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fnew_mave_road.jpg&hash=ac496f1a559b361967476c33409d6c78a2062fda)
I'm such a tease, aren't I? ::)
There is also a MAVE-6, but I'm dealing with the MAVE-4 first. It should theoretically be possible to combine a MAVE-6 and MAVE-4 to provide a MAVE-5... it just means a single-sided override drag.
It looks like the MAVE has a dashed white line in the middle. Are you guys also planning on making a double yellow line version? Or is that just the euro version?
I think for the MAV-4, turning lanes for every intersection would be great.
Quote
It looks like the MAVE has a dashed white line in the middle. Are you guys also planning on making a double yellow line version? Or is that just the euro version?
That's the Euro version. I just deal better with Euro roads, that's all. :P
Can you show pictures of the 5 lane 1-way and pictures of the 4 and 6 lane MAVE please ? (with american striping) :)
okay thats good. projects coming along nicely. i've seen many mave-4's in rl, but i have yet to see a mave-6. in my opinion, in real life that would be very dangerous if it's a high speed road. But in sim city, since everyone seems to follow the speed limit, and d&d doesn't seem to exist, it should be fine.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: &apls
Quote from: NewYorker05 on June 29, 2008, 08:28:41 AM
Can you show pictures of the 5 lane 1-way and pictures of the 4 and 6 lane MAVE please ? (with american striping) :)
We can't really, since they're not actively in development right now.
Note: I have moved all the discussion on traffic signals to a new thread,
Traffic Signals in SC4--A Discussion Thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5136.0). It can be found in the main NAM Place board. All further discussion on traffic signals should go there.
so what are you guys actively working on now? it looks to me like you're focusing on the TLA-3 and TLA-5. am I right?
They're working on stuff...
However, with the amount of networks that they have to do it's daunting in a sense. You see, they have the RHWs, the ERHWs, the RHWMISs, and then the MAVE and the TLAs and slip lanes. Maybe I should re-make that list that I had long ago for everyone:
Completed:
RHW 2
RHW 4
RHW 6C (Orthogonal)
RHWMIS 1
Upcoming:
RSL (right turn slip lanes)
LTL (left turn turning lanes)
AVE 2
ARD 3*
MAVE 4
AVE 6
OWR 3*
OWR 5*
OWR 4 (this would be functional, but they don't have it in development yet)
TLA 3
TLA 5
TLA 7
RHW 3*
RHW 6C
RHW 8S
RHW 8C*
RHW 10*
ERHW 4
DDRHW 4*
ERHW 6 (not sure if seperate* or compact)
DDRHW 6 (not sure if seperate or compact)*
ERHWMIS 1
* means networks are functionally eyecandy due to Maxis limitation of using per tile rather than per lane. In some configurations capacity might be bigger or less than what the network should be able to handle.
There's a large holdup in the projects because of the difficulty of making the networks go diagonally, especially all of the larger 3-tile networks. SA, Tarkus, JPumbley, and Memo have all been plagued with RL, so don't expect fast progress on any of the projects in the short term. You just have to be patient and hope that they will be released soon. Tarkus had hinted in a PM of a limited scaled-down NWM release (not sure about RHW) but I'm not sure of the status of that.
- Allan Kuan
Usefull info, Allan. Thanks!
And it's useful for me too so I know what next needs to be done. :P
I've got some time handy, so I'll be doing more MAVE stuff.
cool, wow lots of projects to do. is there any good modding tutorials? i want to try some things out
I'd love to see even just plain ol' MAVE-4 and TLA-5, that's all I really want. (Oh, and the right-turn slip lanes.)
I can use elevated avenues for now as far as ERHW goes.
The ones i'm most looking forward to are right turn slip lanes, tla-5, tlr-3, mave-4, and ave-6
Oh yeah Ave-6 would be useful...
The TLAs I'm looking forward to are these. TLA-3, TLA 5,AVE4/6/8 AND ARD-3. Those would give me more options when I continue my cities...
That's a pretty big project list, but what's DDRHW? Double-deceker RHW?
A "scaled-down NWM release"? Such as orthogonal only? I wouldn't mind it, so long as the full version is released later (which I'm sure Tarkus will do). Here is a list of what I am awaiting in the NWM arranged from most wanted to least wanted.
1. TLR-3
2. TLA-5
3. MAVE-4
4. OWR-3
5. RSL (right turn slip lanes)
6. TLA-7
7. AVE-6
8. ARD-3
9. OWR-5
10. OWR-4
11. LTL
12. AVE-2
And, of course, the RHW stuff is way up there, but this is the NWM thread...
I like the list of upcoming NWM and RHW networks. Gives me a good idea of what's coming up so I can prepare for it.
I've also seen some "month-old pics" of the next RHW, and I am anxiously awaiting it. I also gather that the next version is well on it's way to be released. Am I correct in assuming this?
Anyway, it all looks great, and I'm looking forward to the next release of one of these mods.
- Patricius Maximus
Patricius, What is LTL? Just Curious....
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 03, 2008, 01:36:43 PM
That's a pretty big project list, but what's DDRHW? Double-decker RHW?
Indeed it is. It suffers from capacity issues, though. A DDRHW-4 would have the same capacity as an RHW-2 (being a 1-tile network).
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on July 03, 2008, 04:33:38 PM
A "scaled-down NWM release"? Such as orthogonal only? I wouldn't mind it, so long as the full version is released later (which I'm sure Tarkus will do).
That's certainly possible. Doing diagonals for the 1-tile networks wouldn't be out of the question, though. The concept I had was to do the 1-tile networks (TLA-3, AVE-2, ARD-3, OWR-1, OWR-3) plus the Orthogonal-only TLA-5. There are some stability issues to figure out with intersections between multiple 1-tile NWM networks. They may have to be puzzle pieces, but I'm not sure.
-Alex (Tarkus)
I don't think that I, for one, would mind the capacity. Doesn't the RHW2 already have a pretty good capacity though? (With the default)
That'd be pretty cool. I'm anxious to get a hold of some of these. Question about using puzzle pieces though: The TLAs have their center turn lane become a left turn only lane at intersections, so how would using a puzzle piece handle this? Would the puzzle piece have to extend 2 tiles down each network, or would it automatically create the turn lane? As long as it's not too difficult, I think puzzle pieces would be OK.
Two signatures? ???
Quote from: deathtopumpkinsI don't think that I, for one, would mind the capacity
I second that. The concept is good enough, let alone covering all these projects anyway.
I agree. That makes three of us.
I have a quick question about the 2-tile networks: Will they be dragged with avenue or with two one-tile networks? I ask because, assuming the starter pieces can work with 2-tile networks, it would be a lot easier to drag them, orthogonally and diagonally, with avenue.
wait so does this mean a road has the same capacity as a street but just has a higher speed? huh, interesting. well i don't mind about the capacity either, the functionality is good enough.
Edgware: No, because Road and Street are different networks. That rule only applies to the same network. All forms of the RHW are simply overrides of RHW2, so one direction of RHW4 or 6* has the same capacity as RHW2, because they all only take up one tile, and the game does capacity by number of tiles, not lanes, as I'm sure they weren't anticipating us making our own networks.
* With RHW 6 cars only drive on one tile each direction, although with the shoulder it takes up two.
Hope this makes sense. NAM Team, correct me if I'm wrong.
oh that makes more sense. ok and you guys used the draw cheats path to make sure they don't drive on the shoulder right?
BTW, with the capacity problems with DDRHW and other DD networks, if you open up the Traffic Simulator DAT in your NAM installation and know what you are doing, you can increase or decrease capacity for any network.
Case in point: I was having trouble with Avenues going RED, so I just increased their capacity.
~~Dragonshardz~~
dragonshardz, yeah while what you say is true, the problem would be that it increases capacity over all networks, so the normal would have double the capacity over the DD version and suchlike
(I am sure you realise this, I was just pointing it out ;) )
Joe
Quote from: dragonshardz on July 04, 2008, 01:17:20 PM
BTW, with the capacity problems with DDRHW and other DD networks, if you open up the Traffic Simulator DAT in your NAM installation and know what you are doing, you can increase or decrease capacity for any network.
Joe's right here. The DDRHW is based on the same network as all the other RHWs. The ratios will remain the same no matter what value you put in for RHW capacity.
Quote from: Edgware on July 04, 2008, 01:11:31 PM
oh that makes more sense. ok and you guys used the draw cheats path to make sure they don't drive on the shoulder right?
Actually, when I pathed the RHW-6, I didn't need to see the DrawPaths cheat for that. The path file for the shoulder tile is completely blank--it's just a "dummy" path.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Edgware: They didn't need to use the draw paths cheat to ensure that nobody drives on the shoulder because they didn't path the shoulder in the first place (to the extent of my knowledge), and sims don't have minds of their own--they're just pixels, so I don't think we have to worry about sims driving on the shoulder.
(Again, NAM Team, correct me if I'm wrong)
EDIT: Alex beat me to it, so read his answer instead!
Joe: actually what I did is increase just the capacity of Avenue. In this case it would be an increase in the capacity of both normal RHW and DDRHW to the same capacity
IE, if RHW is normally 1000 capacity and it is increased in the
TS to 2000 that means that RHW now has 2000 capacity and DDRHW has 2000 capacity.
And yes I realize what you were pointing out. ;D
~~Dragonshardz~~
ah wow. Well I'll wait till i'm more sure that i'm going to start modding before i learn the specifics.
More MAVE goodness.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fhavesomegoodcartime.jpg&hash=3614a5441bb48f2309da65815e40f7118be86426)
How about a MAVE-5? Or even, a MAVE-6?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fmave5and6.jpg&hash=7934ef0893a2753e853392f64e21fcd4143d3ab2)
The RULs unfortunately are particularly unstable for the MAVE-6 ,since it will often deconvert.
Ooh, that's the stuff I like love!
Purdy. :)
How about MAVE godliness! :D
This looks awesome, SA!!! &apls
that looks great SA. any plans to have the double white line?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Froad222.jpg&hash=88650c614d8e1f0ef1a4da96cee9da4ed813b177)
this is just my idea. and not my project so ill remove the image if need be.
Quotethat looks great SA. any plans to have the double white line?
Since there aren't really many textures that need to be changed, and I can do it at the same time as the American road textures, white double lines are indeed possible.
Maybe it'll be an optional add-on, as an additional texture replacement designed to complement the Euro Road Mod.
Actually... it'd be nice to see an Australian Road Texture Replacement Mod...
I agree that double white lines are a good idea. If there is a MAVE in the Netherlands, it would be this way.
wow! the mave's look awesome. good job
[q]wait so does this mean a road has the same capacity as a street but just has a higher speed?[/q]
I'm no modder, but from what I've heard I think this:
The per-tile capacity only applies to the same network, such as Avenue, RHW, and Road. The NAM team can't create new networks, they can only modify existing ones and have texture and path overrides with starter pieces.
Anyway, if I'm wrong someone else will answer the question.
MAVE 6? Wow. Are you using a puzzle-piece override for creating it though? Or is there a lack of intersections that causes it to revert to the MAVE 4? Anyway, this is excellent progress! =) Wish to see it ingame soon.
- Allan Kuan
lovely work here =) :thumbsup:
QuoteMAVE 6? Wow. Are you using a puzzle-piece override for creating it though? Or is there a lack of intersections that causes it to revert to the MAVE 4? Anyway, this is excellent progress! =) Wish to see it ingame soon.
I'm only using a side-by-side OWR3 override drag. The MAVE-4 uses OWR-2. The OWR3 has a tendency to revert back to OWR-2... so that's why it's unstable.
The MAVE-6 won't be done till the OWR-3 is made more stable. Until then, you guys will have to make do with MAVE-4. :P
Quote
I agree that double white lines are a good idea. If there is a MAVE in the Netherlands, it would be this way.
They're common here as well. I just used the dashed line... it's possible that'll be done for TLA-5 Euro, but I'm not sure. :P
Are there already American textures for MAVE?
So it works by just drawing to OWR3s next to each other?
I don't mean to sound demanding, I'm just wondering.
QuoteAre there already American textures for MAVE?
Yes. They just haven't been added, that's all.
QuoteSo it works by just drawing to OWR3s next to each other?
Yes. For the MAVE-6 anyway.
What about (inthe future) an 8 lane elevated highway and ground highway? (just wondering)
Everything looks very nice, and great effort has been put into it, keep up the good work.
Quote from: Ryusuke516 on July 05, 2008, 11:11:52 PM
What about (inthe future) an 8 lane elevated highway and ground highway? (just wondering)
Everything looks very nice, and great effort has been put into it, keep up the good work.
Well, in the HRS this I've this with a emergencylane. An diagonal 8-lane highway won't fit in the tile, and that could be a serious problem with pathing, modelling and network stability.
Cool.
Quote from: Ryusuke516 on July 05, 2008, 11:11:52 PM
What about (inthe future) an 8 lane elevated highway and ground highway? (just wondering)
Well there is the RHW8, which should be in v21 or 22, which might eventually get an elevated version.
cool. i can't wait to see the american textures on the mave 4
Well, I just had an idea pertaining to the talk in the past about reversible lanes. The answer to the question was that paths cannot be timed as they are in reversible lanes in RL.
I know that actual reversible lanes can't be made.
My idea is to have something like the ARD-3 be given new textures such as these.
Australian example:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F2%2F20%2FSouthernExpresswayClosed.jpg&hash=37501dccaec6c5e90eeb98f268f3d17c310d6cd0)
Canadian Example:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F4%2F4a%2FLGBridge.jpg&hash=d397634a9fc65be3e2dabb4288c910bad71dccce)
And for a puzzle piece to control which direction the center lane goes. Switches could be made by a special piece, such as this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg353.imageshack.us%2Fimg353%2F5079%2Fnewbitmapimagemt6.png&hash=2b78b4cb17f251d2157dee1c1c077fb828356f60)
The blue lines are the rough paths.
It's just an idea. I figured it belonged here instead of the NAM Requests since it would be in effect an ARD-3 with a new texture ;)
Also, appropiate props could be done with overhanging props or by some T21 setup. But, the NAM team always says "form follows function".
Please provide feedback about this idea.
- Patricius Maximus
nice idea patricius :thumbsup:
say, isn't that that bridge in Vancouver by the park? Lion's Bridge or something of the sort?
Did someone wanted to mention Lions Gate Bridge?
It gets congested pretty badly at times since it's the shortest route from Downtown to West Vancouver (a more wealthy community) and North Vancouver District.
They had thought of making an expansion, but Vancouver refused, and the only thing done actually was an upgrade of the deck to widen the lanes for safety. However, that might have a positive side effect of preventing suburban-type development from growing and encouraging people to take the Seabus, which is roughly 15 to 20 minutes from the bridge.
Anyway, back to topic. TM, that is an interesting idea. However, it might be hard for us to spot the direction that has two lanes or one lane from both ends of the transition piece.
- Allan Kuan
There could be an easy way to indicate where the flow of traffic switches - put a T21 prop on the switching piece that features a lane control signal setup . . . . . or something like that.
Keep in mind that if such a puzzle piece is created, the paths are functional 24/7. There is no way to tell the game that certain paths are used at certain times of day.
-Swamper
QuoteKeep in mind that if such a puzzle piece is created, the paths are functional 24/7.
It still would be a good idea, though, wouldn't it? :P
To me, this sounds like a certain duplicate road type already in the NWM with a different texture. I think it is a good idea, but I don't know where I'll have use for it. Some other ways to approach this, maybe if the lanes could be flipped like one-way roads, that would be awesome. It would be like having the lanes change direction, instead of replopping a starter piece. However, maybe if the middle path was pathed both ways, and you have a timed T21 over the middle, that changes, it would simulate this. The morning versus the evening commute in the game, the cars seem to be on one side more than the other direction anyway, just maybe then this is possible. An other idea, which maybe the least favored is timed car props in a non functional middle lane, that appear reverse directions during different times of day. It would be interesting to see if the bridge pictured, or the Mave bridge can be done using the ANT network's bridge menu with the RHW bridges. Is that how it works? By the way, because technically we already have Mave bridges, its just the ends of them that are regular avenues, were those planned to be modified for this project?
QuoteKeep in mind that if such a puzzle piece is created, the paths are functional 24/7. There is no way to tell the game that certain paths are used at certain times of day.
Exactly what I said.
QuoteTo me, this sounds like a certain duplicate road type already in the NWM with a different texture.
Yes, effectively an ARD-3 with a new texture. If the NWM team creates a puzzle piece for the ARD-3 so that the extra lanes could switch sides, the concept could be done with a mod that changes the ARD-3 texture, although the regular ARD-3 would be eliminated.
QuoteHowever, maybe if the middle path was pathed both ways, and you have a timed T21 over the middle, that changes, it would simulate this.
If this could be done, that would make functional reversible lanes. Although, how would you dictate which direction at which time?
My concept is more or less what the NAM team calls "functional eyecandy". I believe that an ARD-3 network with a reversible lane texture and appropiate props would be a great idea for suburban and urban areas. It would also increase the realism tremendously.
QuoteBy the way, because technically we already have Mave bridges, its just the ends of them that are regular avenues, were those planned to be modified for this project?
Nope, I'm (at least, anyway) not going to modify those bridges... but we may have have to create custom bridges. Alternatively, you could just transition into a normal AVE to create the bridge that you want.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on July 08, 2008, 09:16:25 PM
Nope, I'm (at least, anyway) not going to modify those bridges... but we may have have to create custom bridges. Alternatively, you could just transition into a normal AVE to create the bridge that you want.
A question, will the MAVE have turning lanes?
Also, I think most of the bridges, the avenue squeezes itself together, so maybe someone could edit a straight transition or something.
Well, the MAVE is a side-by-side override, which means bridges would need to be normal avenue bridges, and a puzzle piece may need to be created to maintain the MAVE override so it can go over the bridge... unless I can override the texture next to the bridge piece?
As for turning lanes - yes, chances are that'll be done in the future. Except, well, I'll have to make the median like a normal avenue [which is fine anyway], and it can fit within the two tiles necessary.
but when it finish this?? or give a beta mod... I really want this please!! ;D
Quote from: Shadow AssassinAs for turning lanes - yes, chances are that'll be done in the future. Except, well, I'll have to make the median like a normal avenue [which is fine anyway], and it can fit within the two tiles necessary.
If you only mean the turning lane in the middle, wouldn't you just convert the Mave to a regular avenue 3 tiles before the intersection using the transition piece, and then just go back to the Mave 3 tiles afterward without doing the extra modding work?
Why not a outside turning lane for the MAVE? This is common on Dutch (seperated) Avenues.
mrtnrln, your suggestion is also possible. Heck, slip lanes are possible, too.
What SA and I have been talking about for the turn lanes on the MAVEs is some sort of optional set up. jplumbley and I have discussed a similar thing for the TLAs as well. The default intersection you would draw would be without turn lanes. A possible setup for the turn lanes would involve either a setup like the new RTL Plugin (length-wise), or some sort of "cross-intersection" (width-wise) just before the actual intersection, to initiate the override. In theory, there are 3 other networks that can be used for creating the length-wise override method. Since SA is using the OWRs as the base network of the OWRs, those would be Roads, Streets and RHWs. Thus, 3 possible turn lane configurations. This will also perhaps increase the value of reading Readme files, as they'll be the place to see what all this stuff would be capable of doing. :D
The width-wise method is not slope conforming (since intersections automatically flatten ground), but 4 networks can be used for it: OWR, Road, Street and RHW.
Theoretically, these sorts of overrides will allow for a multitude of different turn lane configurations for at least some of the NWM networks. The 3-tilers will allow for particularly extensive possibilities.
Hope that makes some sense. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
About Turning Lanes... I have been fixing up some minor errors and adding more functionality to the Right Turn Lanes this past week. No pictures at the moment due to me being at school.
Here is a list of what is currently possible:
- Ortho-Ortho Road Optional Left Turn Lanes
- Ortho-Ortho Road Optional Right Turn Lane with Left Turn Lane from Road
- Ortho Road to Ortho Avenue Optional Left Turn Lane from Road
- Ortho Road to Ortho Avenue Optional Right Turn Lane with Left Turn Lane from Road
- Ortho Road to Ortho Avenue Automatic Left Turn Lane from Avenue
- Ortho Avenue to Ortho Avenue Optional Right Turn Lanes
Optional Left Turn Lanes for Roads:These will be able to be drawn in any configuration for an intersection.
Example of Road-Road Ortho 4way (works at T-Intersections aswell):
o = Intersection
| , - = Original Road
|| , = = Left Turn Lane
|
= o --
|
|
= o =
|
||
= o --
|
||
= o =
|
||
= o =
||
NWM Ready:
- Ortho Road to Ortho TLA-3 Optional Right Turn Lane with Left Turn Lane from Road
- Ortho Avenue to Ortho TLA-3 Optional Right Turn Lane with Left Turn Lane from Avenue
- Ortho TLA-3 to Ortho TLA-3 Optional Right Turn Lane with Left Turn Lane
- Ortho TLA-5 to Ortho TLA-5 Optional Right Turn Lane with Left Turn Lane
- Ortho Avenue to Ortho TLA-5 Optional Right Turn Lanes
- Ortho TLA-5 to Ortho Avenue Automatic Left Turn Lanes
- Ortho TLA-3 to Ortho Avenue Automatic Left Turn Lane from Avenue
Shadow_Assassin has been working on the Optional Right Turn Lanes for:
- Diagonal Road to Ortho Road
- Diagonal Road to Ortho Avenue
- Diagonal Avenue to Ortho Road
- Diagonal Avenue to Ortho Avenue
These can easily be ported to NWM with:
- Diagonal TLA-3 to Ortho Road
- Diagonal TLA-3 to Ortho Avenue
- Diagonal TLA-3 to Ortho TLA-3
- Diagonal TLA-3 to Ortho TLA-5
- Diagonal Road to Ortho TLA-3
- Diagonal Road to Ortho TLA-5
- Diagonal Avenue to Ortho TLA-3
- Diagonal Avenue to Ortho TLA-5
So as you can see, the
Turning Lanes Plugin is still going under a MAJOR redevelopement to bring it up-to-date and making it NWM Ready. We are hoping that once the new
TLP (Turning Lanes Plugin) is ready, that we can possible put together a partial Beta Release of the NWM. But, there are still some minor issues to work out. Textures are in the process of being converted from "Alpha Quality" to "Release Quality", Path Files are under construction and well, there are still a few more RULs that need to be written.
EDIT: Also forgot the most important thing!! We still havent decided how to work with Left Hand Drive. There are a couple of options and the best one has not been decided on yet.
Looking Great there Jplumbley, I'm looking forward to the next update. Also also cant wait to use those in Steven's Point.
I'm a little lost on both of thoe posts, but hooray for progress!
I've always been a little puzzled as to how you plan to incorporate this project into SC4, but I can see that you have it planned out. I don't know how you guys do it!
I wish you the best with this project. You are doing something even Maxis had trouble integrating.
-Haljackey
Wow, that work sounds complicated. No wonder why Maxis couldn't do it.
??? Now THAT is confusing... and it's done with ASCII characters... I would much prefer some sort of in-game image, edited or not... But you got your point across to ... well, anyone who has the patience and nonconfusability to take the time to understand that.
Quote from: j-dub on July 10, 2008, 09:57:22 AM
Wow, that work sounds complicated. No wonder why Maxis couldn't do it.
I quite agree.
In an alpha stage?
Thanks for the information. Now I have an idea on the NWM progress.
You're all doing good work.
Keep on modding!
- Patricius Maximus
It may look a bit complicated. :D This stuff will probably not be for the faint of heart. But there should be extensive documentation included with the modifications (both TLP and NWM) which will explain everything.
-Alex (Tarkus)
As long as we remember to READ THE README!
Hopefully we'll understand enough to get it working...
I always read the Readme for the NAM stuff, such as this.
Quote from: j-dub on July 10, 2008, 09:57:22 AM
Wow, that work sounds complicated. No wonder why Maxis couldn't do it.
Well, they're professionals and have access to all the extra technology, programming etc. and aren't limited by the EULA. Really the reason they couldn't do it or anything like it, was because EA set a time-line. &sly
But I do agree, that is a lot of work and I'm sure I speak for everyone in that we all appreciate it. :)
Who knows, with alot of buildings and props unfinished, as well as the unused network texture in the game's dat, timeline or not, it makes you wonder what was left out. I bet all this NWM stuff could have been in a 2nd or 3rd expansion pack if they were smart, but we have the NAM team to thank so we don't have to cough up 40 or more dollars, or however more it costs on a mac for new network work.
I bet you do patricius! (That wasn't aimed at anyone in particular :))
To me, I think that it will be one holla of a roundabout with the new roads. Any solutions? Anybody?
if I was Maxis CEO or some other thing... I would hire you guys to work for me XD... you make transit stuff and amazing stuff for the sake of simcity... and I win the money...... XD lol... but... just a question....
if someone offered you a job, and pay the rent and services of your new home in "maxis city", and work for them to develop the next simcity, would you accept?
Quote from: el_cozu on July 11, 2008, 03:06:09 PM
if someone offered you a job, and pay the rent and services of your new home in "maxis city", and work for them to develop the next simcity, would you accept?
Me? No. I don't want my soul sucked out by EA. ;)
That's a good thing. You people are indispensible here.
I see you make not only wider networks, but also narrower networks. How about a 4-lane maxis highway? It's insane that Maxis-highways are always 6 lanes wide, not wider, not narrower.
Shadow Assassin did at one point a while back, 4 lane asphalt re-texture work with the Maxis highways.
I thought I saw that quite a while ago (it was called the UHW), but I never heard about it since then. What happened with it? Obviously was SA working on other projects, like the RHW.
Quote from: mrtnrln on July 12, 2008, 09:25:06 AM
I thought I saw that quite a while ago (it was called the UHW), but I never heard about it since then. What happened with it? Obviously was SA working on other projects, like the RHW.
That's largely what happened with it--the UHW has been on the backburner for some time now. It was actually intended as a full-on Maxis Highway replacement with new paths (not a separate network). Maxis' original prototype for their Highway networks was a 2-lane setup--in fact, some of the textures from this are still in the .dat files that come with the game.
There aren't plans to make the two co-exist, either. Starter Piece Overrides for 2-tile networks are an entirely different animal. They are by and large very inflexible networks from what I've seen, which is why all the RHW and NWM networks are based on 1-tile networks--there's more you can do with them.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on July 11, 2008, 09:49:01 PM
Me? No. I don't want my soul sucked out by EA. ;)
Same here. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
are the wider networks going to have higher speed limits?
Quote from: Edgware on July 15, 2008, 04:13:11 PM
are the wider networks going to have higher speed limits?
Well, technically speaking, no. They're based on the Road and OWR networks, so they'll have the same speed and some whole number multiple of the capacity of those networks. When the SPM (Signage Piece Mod) is released, though, you'll be able to post whatever speed limit on them.
-Alex (Tarkus)
is that going to be based on puzzle pieces or are they going to take up entire tiles with a single sign?
Maybe you should see for yourself, especially at the second picture. http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4326.0
yeah I found the thread right after I asked that. looks cool, can't wait
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fmave_texture_update_show_2.jpg&hash=687cd7d786b8a5419f3d9a5801985ff0313e6a92)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fmave_texture_update_show_1.jpg&hash=78efdad3ae71d214a21290af571cb9b245eb6c94)
Well, the MAVE is shaping up nicely. I changed the line in the middle to a double white line [I'll do the American version... eventually... but since I'm not from America, it'll probably be a while before I get around to it. :P]
edit: I forgot to mention that I've added some single-sided street functionality - that is, you can drag a street into one side just like with a normal avenue.
The MAVE looks amazing, and I'll take the white line, we some in the states ;)
Where in the states is there a white line Mave?
Baltimore, MD homes! But your right it is rarein the US and a yellow line version is anticipated, at least by me.
That is looking really nice there, SA! Nice work on the MAVE!
its looking sexy as, thanks SA :)
Excellent progress! Those are sorely needed by me...
This week is the first time in several months that I've gotten back into the SimSwing of things (long boring story). Although I was looking forward to all the advancements of some projects (particularly the RHW and OWR-5) I had no idea this is what I would come back to. My congratulations and thanks go out to all the hard-working developers and incredible visionaries that are making this possible... you guys are doing a phenomenal job to say the least! My only gripe, if you could call it that, is that all these amazing additions to the game will make it so addictive that I'll find myself playing 25 hours a day, 8 days a week.
The MAVE is really the one giant change to the road network I wanted to see immediately after I bought the game, and to see it in development now almost brings a tear to my eye. It seems simple in comparison to the other great additions but it helps a lot of us to see the true scope of what is being done here. You guys--all the developers--are bringing a lot of happiness into many people's liesurely lives and it means more to us than perhaps you realize. Thank you all so much for your dedication to this game and helping to make it what we all wanted it to be from the very beginning!
&apls
hi SA!
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on July 26, 2008, 07:52:31 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fmave_texture_update_show_2.jpg&hash=687cd7d786b8a5419f3d9a5801985ff0313e6a92)
Very nice Work! :thumbsup: Can you tell me where did you find the parking set (Lot?) on the top of this picture?
thks!
- cape44
cape44, they are Casper's lots
and its still looking awesome ;D
Joe
Actually, they are not my lots ::)
I'm not completely sure, but I think it's the BLaM Parking Lot (Set) by Pat
Anyhow, very nice and interesting developments here!
Nice work on the MAVE's SA!!!
Hi,
thanks JoeST, it's in fact CasperVgs Modular Pking SET. but these "file has been locked for Administrative purposes" :'( on the SETX. Is aynabody knows another links? :thumbsup:
Thanks for answer. ()stsfd()
- capeside44 ;)
I don't hit mean to be stupid ( :P ), but I am wondering. If you have wider networks in-game, why is it not released? Still I wish you good luck. :)
Quote from: Fatsuhono on August 03, 2008, 08:59:57 PM
I don't hit mean to be stupid ( :P ), but I am wondering. If you have wider networks in-game, why is it not released? Still I wish you good luck. :)
Because we still have quite a few things to work out with the wider networks before they're ready for public consumption, especially on the front of intersections and diagonals. ;) It's been a lengthy and complicated process, but it will (hopefully :D) be worth it.
Hope that answers your question. :)
-Alex (Tarkus)
It does answer, thank you! :) Good luck for this project! :thumbsup:
@ Casper: No, not a BLaM parking lot - Pat used the XD parking lot textures/props on the LEX and the STEX.
@ SA: Great picture! All the advice you need for American textures is that you can just turn the white solid lines that are down the middle yellow, including leading up to/just after the MAVE/AVE transition depending on which direction you're coming from; leave the ones indicating parallel traffic or the edge of the road white. Also, the fast dashed line on the street intersection is usually just a stop bar on the right side of the road; fast dashed lines (always white) are used for turning lanes and accel/decel lanes on highways.
MAVEs with American textures would increase realism in my cities.
On another note, this is just an idea for the future of the NWM:
MIS connections for roads and ARDs.
Such as this:
http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=36.54731&lon=-87.290482&zoom=18 (http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=36.54731&lon=-87.290482&zoom=18).
Notice a MIS ramp coming out of a road, like the RHW B-ramps, and the ramp merges into another road to form an ARD-3.
I was just searching around, and I thought it was a good example of NWM ideas.
Is this mod is ready for download?
AHEM...
QuoteNWM PROJECT
Current Status--No public version available.
That should clear up any confusion. Please refrain from posting "where can I get this" posts in the future. That includes other threads and people too.(I'm not trying to pick on you)
okay,now i know.
It usually helps if you read the first post (it's pinned at the top of every page in this topic) to learn everything that you need to know about the NWM. ;)
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on August 05, 2008, 07:03:17 AM
MIS connections for roads and ARDs.
Such as this:
http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=36.54731&lon=-87.290482&zoom=18 (http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=s&lat=36.54731&lon=-87.290482&zoom=18).
Notice a MIS ramp coming out of a road, like the RHW B-ramps, and the ramp merges into another road to form an ARD-3.
Err... SA's slip ramps will do something similar i believe, and you could also use the RHWMIS to create that.
As much as Tarkus and SA can develop these things, they have very limited time to do so. So it'd be best to use what's available (improvise). Remember, this is a game, and is not intended to represent everything available in the real world.
- Allan Kuan
QuoteAs much as Tarkus and SA can develop these things, they have very limited time to do so. So it'd be best to use what's available (improvise). Remember, this is a game, and is not intended to represent everything available in the real world.
I am fully aware of that. I just like to post interesting things here because it may give someone an idea...
That's why I did not make it a request. I do improvise the best I can. However, I like to see what's going on, follow the development progress, and provide feedback when needed.
Don't worry, I'll find lots of good stuff to throw into the game: it just takes time to add them. The thing about RULing is well... it tends to be a little tedious and involves a lot of copying-and-pasting. For instance, the MAVE is actually copied and pasted from the TLA-5 code... just with different IIDs.
Allan: would you believe it if I said that would be possible to do very easily in-game with a little RULing? :P
Wow SA your work is superb it's looking very good &apls &apls
Slip lanes are awesome. With the current MIS, slip lanes that length like in the map are Already possible for regular Roads, after you demolish the straight away piece and leave the ramp transition there. You just won't have any direct lanes connnecting to it afterward, and it involves plopping T road intersection puzzle pieces where the ramp ends.
I can't wait to use it in my city. :)
Just an idea ,but maybe you can place a light rail track in the median of the AVE-2.
Quote from: Fresh Prince of SC4D on August 18, 2008, 12:57:29 PM
Just an idea ,but maybe you can place a light rail track in the median of the AVE-2.
There may be something along those lines in the works . . . we'll see. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Wow guys, excellent progress!!
SA, you'd be familiar with the 6-lane "goat tracks" that radiate from Sydney, basically those 6 lane avenues with a very thin concrete barrier replacing the double white lines. It'd be quite intersting to see if they would work in this mod.
Thank you for your amazing work and time that you spend doing this... It's appreciated!
Quote
SA, you'd be familiar with the 6-lane "goat tracks" that radiate from Sydney, basically those 6 lane avenues with a very thin concrete barrier replacing the double white lines. It'd be quite intersting to see if they would work in this mod.
Indeed, I'm very familiar with those. They will most definitely work, since all that needs to be done is a T21 that has to be added to simulate the median barrier.
Light rail? Median barriers? It gets better all the time.
It does, eh?
Addendum: This (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Mona+Vale+Rd&sll=-33.867139,151.207114&sspn=0.035491,0.081367&ie=UTF8&ll=-33.740257,151.141148&spn=0.035544,0.109863&z=14&layer=c&cbll=-33.758131,151.153608&panoid=xG-H6weL2JXTNejn7glQOQ&cbp=1,184.03973785383414,,0,9.755682760707188) is what Owen Luby was talking about - the "goat tracks" that run throughout Sydney, most were built in the 70s. While Sydney doesn't have a truly extensive freeway network, it does have an excellent arterial road network, much of which are clogged with traffic. :P
To Tarkus: Is The NWM going to use Puzzle Pecies like the RHW. Or is the NWM going to be like a draggable like a (Road, Street, Avenue, One Way)?
We have things like those "goat tracks" here in the US, but there's not much distinction between them, 6-lane avenues with a wider grass median, and 6-lane undivided avenues. (Mostly the roads with a similar barrier are 4-lane avenues within the city; when they are outside of the city they have a wider grass barrier with no curb, and in some places a steel guardrail)
Quote from: SimsReporter on August 19, 2008, 08:52:52 AM
To Tarkus: Is The NWM going to use Puzzle Pecies like the RHW. Or is the NWM going to be like a draggable like a (Road, Street, Avenue, One Way)?
It's going to use starter pieces like the RHW, by and large.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Thats good! :) &apls :thumbsup:
Yes those are the ones. Now lets get some concrete textures and speed limit signs painted on the road to boot!
And are you also familiar with those s-lane configurations, where the far left lane ends to make room for the right turn lane?
Quote
And are you also familiar with those s-lane configurations, where the far left lane ends to make room for the right turn lane?
Hmm, what sort of configuration? Is it the one where one lane ends and the other two lanes S over to the right?
May this give you an idea what I am talking about?....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcitytransport.info%2FPhotoCD%2FPCD11_91a.jpg&hash=42f1e2205b85f3da4b34fb817a2759f07c47cf3f)
Yes, what you said is correct, now just flip it to left-hand side mode and voila:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg238.imageshack.us%2Fimg238%2F5537%2Fsavv4.png&hash=c2d44fb4d6e12a34e95d635857db44cfa0ae8293)
Ohhhh!
Of course, I get you now. Just wasn't sure, because I've seen two different possible configurations of those. Maybe it can be done, but it depends on what and where it's being done.
I guess its not really worth making, but hey, seeing whats been done here, I guess anything's possible!
And how would one go about making those speed signs that are painted on the road, would it just be a simple texture?
With Alex's SPM, it can easily be done. It can just be a simple painted texture that you plop as a puzzle piece.
Great! I might have a look into making the textures.
Is it out yet or what ???
Ahem.
Quote from: Tarkus on May 03, 2007, 08:47:23 PM
When is the NWM going to be released?
There is no release date or timeline for the NWM project. It will be released when it is done.
It'll be done when it's done.
And we'll just leave it at that, shall we? Patience is a virtue.
Hey, did this pick up the asynchronous road system (Single Lane Road or Three lane road) in its manifest? I know that was mostly for looks, but so is this.
I don't see it in the first post. I really would like the three-lane over the rest...
-Crissa
Quote from: Crissa on September 01, 2008, 11:30:49 PM
Hey, did this pick up the asynchronous road system (Single Lane Road or Three lane road) in its manifest? I know that was mostly for looks, but so is this.
I don't see it in the first post. I really would like the three-lane over the rest...
-Crissa
Yes, it did. :) That network is called the "ARD-3" (Asymmetrical Road) now.
-Alex (Tarkus)
thanks for this update on NWM Tarkus.
I can't wait for the next update!Hopefully this mod will come out when the RHW Beta 21 comes out too. :)
I hope so, too. However, I believe that this addition is on hold as long as Alex is working on the RHW v21.
Quote from: metarvo on September 03, 2008, 08:23:25 PM
I hope so, too. However, I believe that this addition is on hold as long as Alex is working on the RHW v21.
On hold.Hopfully it is not. :(
Quote from: Streetlight 725 on September 03, 2008, 08:27:35 PM
On hold.Hopfully it is not. :(
Unfortunately, it is. Once the RHW update is finished, though, I will have more time to focus on the NWM. ;)
We'll also need to get the new Road Turning Lanes plugin done before releasing the NWM, too, as the existing one in the NAM is incompatible with the NWM.
I did, however, post an update about capacity in my opening "sticky" post--it's good news, especially for the TLA-3.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Thats good that the NWM will be worked on soon!! :D :)
this looks great! can we get a picture of the MAVE?
Quote from: remanh on September 05, 2008, 12:07:50 PM
this looks great! can we get a picture of the MAVE?
What is the MAVE?
MAVE = Medianless Avenue.
Now i know.
Thanks. :)
A picture? Here's one:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi267.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii281%2Fhaljackey%2Fcmsdev05hi8.jpg&hash=a7b7c89d6cbcb3c04bc33582892cd57166213d6e)
It looks like a great AVENUE.It will be usefull in my city. :)
Great Avenue :thumbsup:
It hasn't been released yet, and I really can't take credit for it. Haljackey dug it up from his hard drive, I just got the pic from his thread.
I believe that was an attempt that memo made at making a MAVE a couple of years ago.
If you're looking for more pics of the MAVE-4, Shadow Assassin actually posted a couple on one of the last couple pages.
-Alex (Tarkus)
QuoteI believe that was an attempt that memo made at making a MAVE a couple of years ago.
Yup - but it wasn't called the MAVE back then... I believe memo called it the "Main Street Mod".
I have one question, Does the NWM use the RHW network (but diffrent textures, etc) or does it use the Avenue?
Quote from: SimsReporter on September 09, 2008, 03:10:05 PM
I have one question, Does the NWM use the RHW network (but diffrent textures, etc) or does it use the Avenue?
Neither, actually. All the 2-way networks (TLAs, etc.) are based on the Road network, while the 1-way networks are OWR-based.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Quote from: Tarkus on September 09, 2008, 03:23:17 PM
Neither, actually. All the 2-way networks (TLAs, etc.) are based on the Road network, while the 1-way networks are OWR-based.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Well, the MAVE's using the One Way roads, but that'll probably change in the near future once I get my hands on a starter piece for the MAVE.
Quote from: Tarkus on September 07, 2008, 05:20:47 PM
I believe that was an attempt that memo made at making a MAVE a couple of years ago.
That is right; memo and I were working on this once ago, but since I'm not a texture artist (too stupid to get proper curves done), I wasn't likely to continue the texturing work -- as was no one else. :thumbsdown:
Then, the improvements on RHW and other stuff came out, and so no one was interested in doing further work on this.
The mod was called the "Classic Main Street Mod", and the screen is from a test town of mine which actually is still dumping around on my drive. :thumbsup:
Note the row houses and single-family homes (lower right corner) -- they're part of a mod I had been using to create uniform Nazi-style cities... Didn't work out right, however. They just didn't grow as they were supposed to. I don't know why. ::)
If anyone would like to take over and continue working on this stuff, just drop me a PM, and I'll provide you all the stuff and info you need. (You'll probably need to contact memo as well in order to get the latest RUL files on this.)
just what i needed.thanks for developing it.
Please Realese a demo!!
This mod is going to be great. :thumbsup: Living in the Detroit metro area, I could use some wider roads and ave's for my Detroit map. Looking forward to this.
Rich
Ther is a demo? ()what()
This mod will completely change the game for me. Can't wait for it to be completed. You guys are doing a fabulous job on this :thumbsup:
Quote from: Streetlight 725 on September 23, 2008, 02:46:53 PM
Ther is a demo? ()what()
Just to clarify, there isn't. If there was, I'd certainly be announcing it. :D
May be something to report on the NWM soon . . . ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Quote from: Tarkus link=topic=120May be something to report on the NWM soon . . . ;)
Another nebulous comment! %wrd Something more to try to glean probably nebulous information from... ;D
Quote from: Tarkus on September 23, 2008, 02:59:11 PM
May be something to report on the NWM soon . . . ;)
when do you sleep? lol.....
Quote from: Tarkus on September 23, 2008, 02:59:11 PM
May be something to report on the NWM soon . . . ;)
Did you hear that? I know what I heard. How about you? ;D
Quote from: choco on September 23, 2008, 05:23:52 PM
when do you sleep? lol.....
Hey now.. It is just like the Wile E. Coyote theory of gravity. If you don't remind him he needs sleep then he won't realize it.
Quotewhen do you sleep?
Maybe he doesn't... ()testing()
Amazingly, I do. In fact, I got 9 hours of sleep last night. ;D
-Alex (Tarkus)
/me matches and raises with 12+ a night
Patricius Maximus gets 7 hours a night -- sometimes 8, sometimes 6, but usually 7.
He also gets up at 04:00.
wow....y'all are lucky. i get 5....6 if im lucky and the ol' lady feels bad for me.. &mmm
I get 8:30 hours sleep on week nights most the time, but then I regret it during the day ;D
I get about 6-7 hours a night..... wait a minute, that's not what I was going to say. :P
Good job, Tarkus, with the NWM. I've been lurking a while and just thought I'd say something. ;D
Quote from: Tarkus on September 24, 2008, 11:17:28 AM
Amazingly, I do. In fact, I got 9 hours of sleep last night. ;D
-Alex (Tarkus)
Hey Alex is that at night or is that during the day? lol
I would like to get about 10 hours of sleep a morning (3am to 11am) or is that 8 hours? i'm too lazy for the math...
TOPIC FAIL.
This thread is for discussion and development of the NWM, not discussing of hor much sleep you get/don't get...
(sorry, i've been looking staring at www.failblog.org lately)
Quote from: nerdly_dood on September 24, 2008, 03:19:13 PM
This thread is for discussion and development of the NWM, not discussing of hor much sleep you get/don't get...
There's nothing wrong, other than the fact that we accidentally missed a turn and went completely off course. :D
By the way, I get 7 hours.
Yep, must have turned off of one of those TLR's :D.
Anyway, I think people are wandering off-topic because nothing has been reported about the NWM -- and I know there is nothing to report.
So, until there is something to talk about, I'll refrain from posting here.
that's what i've done ever since shadow assassin's last teaser...
Thumbs up....will be keeping an eye on this one.
How about a left turn lane with a road and avenue connection on a T intersection,
and release it on the STEX.
I don't know why, but that looks a little dangerous. ::) Also, your posting in the wrong thread. Once again:
TOPIC FAIL.
This thread is for discussion and development of the NWM, not discussing of how much sleep you get/don't get... useless avenue mods.... or what ever you want.
Quote from: supercity124 on September 26, 2008, 09:41:42 PM
How about a left turn lane with a road and avenue connection on a T intersection,
and release it on the STEX.
Supercity, this is not the place to request such items. Besides, if my memory serves me right, the basic layout for that has already been completed.
Hey, um, idle question - are there any TLAs in the United States with multiple center turning lanes - like for example, such a road would have two lanes going north, then two center turn lanes and then two going south? All I've ever known of, seen, or had any indication of has had a single center turn lane no matter how many non-turn lanes it has. (Also, what would the lines look like indicating such a TLA?)
Quote from: nerdly_dood on September 27, 2008, 04:15:08 PM
Hey, um, idle question - are there any TLAs in the United States with multiple center turning lanes - like for example, such a road would have two lanes going north, then two center turn lanes and then two going south? All I've ever known of, seen, or had any indication of has had a single center turn lane no matter how many non-turn lanes it has. (Also, what would the lines look like indicating such a TLA?)
I used to wonder about that myself--I'm fairly certain it doesn't really exist--though the closest thing would be when there's two plain old left turn lanes going in opposite directions, though that's usually confined just to intersections.
-Alex
I think two turning lanes would be dangerous, but a wider one would be good if there was a lot of turning/waiting traffic.
I indeed have seen a TLA of sorts here in town; this 2 lane road was widened to 1+TL+1, and for some reason, the TL is excessively wide to the point of the actual traffic lanes being too narrow for trucks. I'm assuming this is just a striping error though, as it seemed rushed.
Quote from: nerdly_dood on September 27, 2008, 04:15:08 PM
Hey, um, idle question - are there any TLAs in the United States with multiple center turning lanes - like for example, such a road would have two lanes going north, then two center turn lanes and then two going south? All I've ever known of, seen, or had any indication of has had a single center turn lane no matter how many non-turn lanes it has. (Also, what would the lines look like indicating such a TLA?)
I've seen that before. The intersection has four signal faces on the approach, with a 3-lens "left turn signal" head over each center lane and a 3-lens standard signal head over each through traffic lane.
Quote from: nerdly_dood on September 27, 2008, 04:15:08 PM
Hey, um, idle question - are there any TLAs in the United States with multiple center turning lanes - like for example, such a road would have two lanes going north, then two center turn lanes and then two going south? All I've ever known of, seen, or had any indication of has had a single center turn lane no matter how many non-turn lanes it has. (Also, what would the lines look like indicating such a TLA?)
yes...along TX Farm Road 1938 (Davis Blvd.) in North Richland Hills TX at North Richland Blvd...it's a very short section, but it cut down on many wrecks...
QuoteHey, um, idle question - are there any TLAs in the United States with multiple center turning lanes - like for example, such a road would have two lanes going north, then two center turn lanes and then two going south? All I've ever known of, seen, or had any indication of has had a single center turn lane no matter how many non-turn lanes it has. (Also, what would the lines look like indicating such a TLA?)
Not in the US in my case... but there are plenty of intersections here with that sort of setup.
please realese a demo :'( I can´t wait too long time.. more than just a year realese the basics of NWM please!!!!
Where I used to live in Texas, along US 290, there was a stretch of double-wide center left turn lane. So, I know it exists.
tacall: Do you think the rest of us want it less? You'll wait, just like all of us. It'll be released when it's released, so why don't you let the team do their job and get this done the right way?
This is looking sooooo promising! Good luck to the team with further developement :thumbsup:
It's like you read my mind and found out exactly what I was looking for...
I'm not sure if someone's already asked this (I really didn't feel like reading all 45 pages) but would it be possible to do something like this limited to pedestrian traffic? I tend to use footpaths a lot in my cities, but right now they're just eyecandy. It'd be awesome if they could actually be used.
That would be under the SAM project, I beleive. It's still up in the air (as far as I know), but the NAM Team might make pedmalls draggable in conjunction with the SAM.
Though I think a NAM Team Memeber will be able to give a more definite answer than I can.
~~Dragonshardz~~
Part of the center turn lane on a road in a city where I live, gets that wide enough for 2 cars, but its not drawn that way. The rest of the way, it is only one car length. I think here they actually didn't intend for that, because there are alot of roads in my area that either have measurements too big, or too narrow at random due to the machine that paints the lines.
@Alafel, you mean future draggable Ped Malls? That is something completely different. The Ped Mall Pieces are pathed so that they can walk (turn) any direction, following the grid, but Chris Adams draggable trail system is impossible to incorporate pathes like the ped mall pieces, being they are smaller then the 1 tile size required to carry a path. I'm assuming that is what your talking about, being those trails are the only "network" that goes any direction drawn unrestricted to the 90/45 degree grid system, which is not compatible to path for this game. If Chris wanted those pathes incorporated into ped mall tiles, the possibility is always there.However I sure hope some can make ploppable flora with pathes that don't follow the games grid, and proove me wrong.
Quote from: dragonshardz on September 30, 2008, 07:54:16 PM
That would be under the SAM project, I beleive. It's still up in the air (as far as I know), but the NAM Team might make pedmalls draggable in conjunction with the SAM.
You're correct,
dragonshardz. jplumbley had set aside the last couple SAM sets for draggable pedmalls.
Back with . . . something . . . soon.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Hi all,
Just wanted to through a few examples of Michigan roads & intersections. ;)
Double left turn example:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.papab.com%2Fsc4%2Fturnlanesexample1.jpg&hash=4f119be216f3ced3bb6d431f52e0b61a3a6af63e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.papab.com%2Fsc4%2Fturnlanesexample6.jpg&hash=b1c80b84c0b314e97eebc98af407fea0d7050d72)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.papab.com%2Fsc4%2Fturnlanesexample7.jpg&hash=7c65ac4b10b33a56e3a3b79ecd84a28f13709431)
Michigan ave turn around's and we have plenty of them:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.papab.com%2Fsc4%2Fturnlanesexample2.jpg&hash=9a8f7fc62e39942e1e8740834df1f34df956f743)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.papab.com%2Fsc4%2Fturnlanesexample5.jpg&hash=711c252a5033431f7e0272d71d7ac169d89a0301)
Triple right hand turns:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.papab.com%2Fsc4%2Fturnlanesexample3.jpg&hash=397f188eaeeea034716b8ad488b4f8189a56942f)
Double right & double left:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.papab.com%2Fsc4%2Fturnlanesexample4.jpg&hash=f82bccd98d6449c729ee0f70fe9dee52402a7d14)
I could go on and on with the insanity but I will stop. :D I don't know if you
even want to see these but I noticed talk about double turn lanes. ::)
Rich
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.picvalley.net%2Fu%2F816%2F644600364.JPG&hash=67d76164a6f6f94f574af29a13c3fee828232fd9)
@Papab2000. Guess what, if you want double turn lanes, OWR can be manipulated, but as you can see traffic can get stuck, and is not considered a feature. However, I have not seen this jam happen lately in my frequent commercial area highway. Figuring out how to do it is very complicated. Tried it once, don't want to do it again, at least this way. I like the idea of double left turn lanes, conjoined though.
@Tarkus, is that still going to work for the NWM? And is this following type of intersection possible to be redone for it as well? The angles, turn lanes, and signals all working properly seems extremely complicated. I noticed that stop points on the sidewalk of the avenue for some reason actually get the traffic lights to work after the avenue intersection without cars stopping in the middle, because there is no stop point on the final tile where the cars come into the last tile as there is no room, due to how the road needs to be aligned for evenly crossing diagonal over diagonal, but the light still works. I just was wondering if even you knew the means to this.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg111.imageshack.us%2Fimg111%2F5960%2F8wayavenuexroadintersechx9.jpg&hash=75e9d2991f89792681b02c1fd68c4ded031a3976)
j-dub,
lol looks like the mess we get here. :D I don't think they would be a good idea if that is the result. :thumbsdown:
Rich
Well thats Maxis programming with OWR for you. I think after a repath, maybe this can work.
Yeah they have some strange programming but that is what happens when you want to get the money rolling. Look at Windows. ::) The world beta tests every OS they release, they just don't realize it. :o Would be neat to see those types of Ave's work though. ;) If it were not for those here mod'ing where would be be with this game. I just love the amazing work that is being done to continually transform SC4 into a lasting adventure. :) :thumbsup:
That Highway has a lot of traffic.
I remember doing some textures for multiple left turn lanes and even right turn lanes.
Alex, I might have shown them to you . . . . would you happen to have any of them lying around?
Quote from: burgsabre87 on October 01, 2008, 10:38:47 AM
I remember doing some textures for multiple left turn lanes and even right turn lanes.
Alex, I might have shown them to you . . . . would you happen to have any of them lying around?
I think I remember those . . . the TLA-7 and TLA-9 prototypes. They're probably still laying around on my old laptop (which is 110 miles away at the moment).
-Alex (Tarkus)
What's it doing that far away? :P
i can't wait until this mod is finished. the other project is cool, too, but this one takes the cake. what you can do with your urban centers with the NWM just make me wanna shed a tear. :'(
of particular interest are the expanded one-ways, which will allow city builders like me to finally have something like 5th avenue in our cities!
http://weblogs.wgntv.com/news/nationworld/jordans-journal/A%20rare%20sight-%20traffic-free%205th%20Avenue.jpg (http://weblogs.wgntv.com/news/nationworld/jordans-journal/A%20rare%20sight-%20traffic-free%205th%20Avenue.jpg)
maybe a bribe is in order... a donation to the website? please, hurry!
LoL Surdanis a bride to the website might work but I bet if you where to offer it to Alex he might take it and just use it and still get NWM when he could lol... The NAM team has a motto " It will be ready when its ready", I know right now the main focus is on the RHW/MIS...
Quote from: Pat on October 04, 2008, 07:22:01 PM
LoL Surdanis a bride to the website might work but I bet if you where to offer it to Alex he might take it and just use it and still get NWM when he could lol... The NAM team has a motto " It will be ready when its ready", I know right now the main focus is on the RHW/MIS...
an arranged marriage... brilliant!
its a bribe... :-[
:) Mass
I'm just wondering, what will the roundabouts or the end-road sections look like? ??? ??? ??? ???
End sections will just look like normal stubs. Here's a pic from over a year ago of the TLA-5 stubs:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg484.imageshack.us%2Fimg484%2F8493%2Fmysteryhighway08292007hu8.jpg&hash=e9aa5a3177fa6b096e6b4c85380b353b9d529a78)
I really don't have a concept for Roundabouts yet, and I'm not sure there will really be one. Usually, there's a deflection island before reaching the main circular road--TLA-5s will need to be converted to normal Avenues, and TLA-3s will probably have to be converted back into Roads.
Just in case anyone is wondering, I haven't forgotten about the NWM. But it won't be worked on much (if at all) until I have RHW Version 21 in "cruise control". (It's rather tricky having so many large-scale projects that folks appear to be anticipating.)
Perhaps a small first NWM release may be possible in the near future, though. We like to surprise people. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
You do love telling us that you love to surprise people, don't you? ;D
I'd also like to see an AVE-2 roundabout connection, whenever that one's done. (But it seems that the ave-2 is a newer concept that hasn't had as much development and as such probably has no such connection made?)
Quote from: surdanis on October 07, 2008, 08:43:05 PM
an arranged marriage... brilliant!
ooh crap I just noticed what I said lol ooii blah ehehehe I meant to say bribe lol $%Grinno$% I dunno Nerdly but I would venture to say you are correct as since this is newer that there wouldnt at this time be the roundabout for the ave-2 section... it took us a loooooong time to get the roundabouts as is lol
Well since the TLA 5 is really an Avenue, and the AVE-2 is is really a road. I don't get why new roundabouts would be needed at all, except for just a single tile one for something like streets, but thats different. In fact, I don't like getting stuck with the middle center turn lane end in a roundabout already.
Quote from: j-dub on October 15, 2008, 08:01:10 PM
Well since the TLA 5 is really an Avenue, and the AVE-2 is is really a road. I don't get why new roundabouts would be needed at all
My thoughts exactly. AVE-2 maybe, but it's a long way off before I can even start thinking about AVE-2 roundabout interfaces. And even then, there's usually some sort of tapering at most modern roundabouts, down to a Road. So I'm fairly certain now that there won't be any special roundabout interfaces.
Unless the concept of a 3-lane roundabout was visited . . . but that's another project entirely.
-Alex (Tarkus)
may I make a suggestion for highway ends..... most federally funded or state funded highway projects antisipate that at a future date that highway my need to be extended....so in undeveloped areas they tend to run almost to a dead end... usually till the point they run out of the concrete or blacktop that they already ordered to the site... here is an example of what I am taking about.....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg61.imageshack.us%2Fimg61%2F7572%2Fhighwayendpy4.jpg&hash=53fc0aa755bcf94fe5e9c05e00646c5d5a449873)
That looks more like the RHW, and that actually can end like that, without the loop.
Here's something that's been on my mind for a while concerning NWM:
Intersections.
How are you doing on that front? I would LOVE to see some screenshots of NWM intersections.
Quote from: BourneID on October 15, 2008, 08:59:37 PM
...at a future date that highway my need to be extended....so in undeveloped areas they tend to run almost to a dead end...
That idea should probably be in the RHW thread, but.....
nice suggestion!! Especially for people who actually
do leave space available in the game.
Quote from: XL2007Intersections
How are you doing on that front? I would LOVE to see some screenshots of NWM intersections.
For the most part, this NWM won't need you to have more space like the RHW does in some cases. I would love to have some screenshots to be displayed here, but I would need permission to show you some more. Pretty much, the intersections pictured in earlier developement already covered it, as well as appearances in Alex's Tarkasian CJ. You will find NWM intersections in action in there. So I guess I'll paint a picture here with words. I can tell you that avenuexroad will have turn lanes, but so far you will need to convert to a TLA-3 for that, and I don't believe neither streetlights on the sides, or signals for roadxavenue crossings are planned for whenever it will be finished/released. Heres the major change to everyone's intersection. A new road turning lane plugin mentioned a long time ago that is required for this, right now means having to redraw every road intersection, if you still want to keep your left turn lanes, unless a legacy is made. Again, that turn lane plugin may not have signals on it by the time it is finished. However, the TLA-3 on the other hand already actually had signals taken care of it for the T's and X's. Its pictured a while back, on top of every page. If it is released that way, without signals on the new road turn lane plugin we could have a choice to have signals on turn lanes or not, because the TLA-3 can replace your turn lanes with a traffic light instead. I admit, I like how some turn lanes don't have signals, and some do, for realistic purposes. Wether if that will be the case if the mod ever is ready, may or may not be the case. Right now, all the intersections planned for whenever the first one comes out have single turn lanes. You definately are going to learn how to take apart avenues, and drag roads from an avenue on each side to convert to TLA-5.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg183.imageshack.us%2Fimg183%2F2606%2Ftlr3intersectionye7.jpg&hash=fe7de7aaf242ba776beb31096d4879b66a7d30d2)
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(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F5231%2Fave2previewly6.jpg&hash=f1008e00497d29ce107da53c73a1dcb3a52a1f81)
Just some of the things you're gonna be able to do with the NWM . . . ;)
DISCLAIMER: The showing of these pictures does not indicate in any way the closness of a NWM release.
It has been quite a while since a NWM update, hasn't it? At least there's SOMETHING to keep s interested! :D
I await another update... (but since NAM team emphasis is currently on RHW, that's what mine is on too)
Those picture are amazing! :o :o
Now how much longer until more? ...
-un1
I'm content with the pictures for now. The release can wait, at least until RHW v.21 is released. :D
Quote from: burgsabre87 on October 28, 2008, 06:56:02 PM
Just some of the things you're gonna be able to do with the NWM . . . ;)
I officially need a change of underwear... looks awesome so far!!! At this rate the original game won't even be recognizable!
Quote from: SamJam on October 29, 2008, 12:28:21 PM
I officially need a change of underwear... looks awesome so far!!! At this rate the original game won't even be recognizable!
EEEWWWWWWW!!!! YUCK! ()sick() ()sick() ()sick() ()sick() THAT'S JUST NASTY! Well, I can't wait for it to be released! Will there be a part for AVE-2 with 1 track glr?
great work here! nice to see some more updates. keep us posted. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Monorail Master on October 29, 2008, 01:29:56 PM
EEEWWWWWWW!!!! YUCK! THAT'S JUST NASTY!
What? No, you've got me all wrong... I change my underwear for good luck every time I see new screenshots. Sort of a reverse-karma.
The GLR track in the AVE-2 is a cool idea but wouldn't that be just a weeeeee bit tight?
Personally I'm still waiting to see a one-tile wide orthogonal avenue for those oh-so-cramped downtown areas. &mmm
...That would seem even tighter... :-[
Well, the glr/tram in road, which really is glr in ave-2, was already being worked on, but I don't think its going to be part of this.
Quote from: zakuten on October 30, 2008, 01:41:58 PM
...That would seem even tighter...
I've seen a one-tile thick 4-laner than someone did a while back... "ghetto road" or something like that. The project didn't go anywhere but it worked visually. You can do away with the sidewalks and carry the road all the way to the edge because 99% of the lots out there don't go right to the curb (so in a sense they have their own sidewalks). The lanes themselves were about at wide as a typical car model in the game. So yes, it was tight, but all RL large cities have them somewhere. The only issue, I suppose, would be pedestrian traffic.
If not 4-laners on one tile, why not roads with car-width parking lanes and thin sidewalks? Just brainstorming. *shrug*
Also if you want pedestrian traffic on such a one-tile RD-4 with no sidewalk, you could use ped-mall tiles for that area on one side. But residential growth would be restricted on that side of the road, so it would be necessary to find a way around that.
Using the street width, it is possible to have 4 lanes with sidewalks on 1 tile, you take the grass, and turn it into lanes but it is extremely narrow. I have this type of thing happen with JRJ's street set with cars in parking bays, along with another mod that makes an Austrailian white line down the middle of the street, that sometimes gives me the effect of at least a wider network. So if you want some wider streets, and can do without the grass in half the places, with sidewalks the same size, you want those two mods. Don't know where I dug them up. Since the one tile is too narrow, thats why the planned MAVE would be 2 tiles wide. It also would blend into the other Avenues better. Now heres the thing about the TLA-3, if you notice in the picture Burgsabre posted, you see how the sidewalk is in comparison to the street there?
The street/parking bay idea sounds nice but not really what I was getting at... I'm talking major thoroughfares that are, as you say, extremely narrow. An 'avenue' for game naming purposes, but crunched into one tile. Every major city on Earth probably has a few somewhere. Of course they could only be orthogonal in the game but with lanes that narrow you would have to drive in a straight line anyway, LOL. Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to the MAVE (very much so actually) but it still resembles something you might see in the 'burbs with no driveway access and subdivisions on each side, not something you'd see in a dense downtown environment. Assuming the 2x1 lane orthogonal road is still on the table, I'm guessing that's as close as we'd get for one tile. We could all sit here for the entire day listing things we want to see in the game but probably never will... the NWM is going to open a lot of doors for us and I'm still very thankful for that! ()stsfd()
Even so, it would be nice for some of the networks to be available diagonally. At least the TLA-3, ARD-3, and OWR-3. However, it should be noted that I'm not making requests. I'll take whatever Alex throws at me when the NWM is released. :D :D We do need to get through the RHW v.21, though...
Its on the table, but I don't know if the MAVE will come out with this NWM, first-hand. There are real four lane roads out there, and trust me, ones that are side by side, and having your dog's head out the window is not safe, because two cars can't even fit next to each other in real life, but the MAVE is designed to fit in with the avenues, and TLA-5. Thats why I have my doubts for a single avenue tile getting made, thats not on the drawing board. I myself probably would use that, but for that to work, it would have to be street pathed narrow to allow the extra lanes, and fit the sidewalks. I base those measurements off of the street mods, I mentioned before. The closest thing to a single tile avenue, is the SLR, which is one tile, but you have 2 through lanes on one side. As for the SLR, I don't even know if that can have a sidewalk. The idea was to build it through real hilly areas, so you could have two lanes climbing up the slope. Now diagonals. It is possible for turning lanes on diagonal tiles, but wether if it will be done for avenues (TLA-5) is beyond me.
The major pseudo-networks I'm really looking forward to with the NWM is ARD-3, TLA-3, OWR-3, TLA-5 and MAVE-4 (2-tile) and MAVE-6. Of course, that isn't to say that I won't like the other networks... but those are the ones I really could use, for variety's sake. If a road is going to be jammed into a place where it barely fits, I probably won't be especially fond of it, unless there is a way I could tweak its surroundings to make it fit (such as a one-tile MAVE-4 - it could fit in a place where I don't want a sidewalk, such as a road through a suburban retail area with huge parking lots, or in an industrial district)
I'm looking forward to some definite news as to what exactly we'll be expecting with the NWM... most of what's been going on lately is primarily speculation.
Again, I would not expect a singular tile MAVE in the planning pages, as we still have yet to know about the regular MAVE, as the rest of the NWM, no rush. We will have to wait for the good news, after the RHW is taken care of. Personally, I think MAVE-6 looks like OWR-3 side by side an opposing OWR-3, because there really wouldn't be a gap in between the two OWR-3's, as of the current picture with how they measure out. Its almost then that the two OWR's would look like a MAVE, except 6 lanes, with arrows down the center lines. If the MAVE-6 is already taken care of, thats different, its just from a modding standpoint, I thought just doing OWR-3 without arrows would of been easier for accomplishing a 6.
Quote from: nerdly_dood on November 02, 2008, 05:18:49 PM
The major pseudo-networks I'm really looking forward to with the NWM is ARD-3, TLA-3, OWR-3, TLA-5 and MAVE-4 (2-tile) and MAVE-6...
...If a road is going to be jammed into a place where it barely fits, I probably won't be especially fond of it, unless there is a way I could tweak its surroundings to make it fit...
So basically the bits you're looking forward to the most are, well, pretty much everything LOL... I think we're all in the same position!
Actually Dood, the very reason I was interested in single-tile MAVE was because I did
not want to redevelop in a tight area. Mass redevelopments often come with land purchases, but for those roads in dense downtown areas lined with houses or other permanent structures the only answer is partial expropriation of property frontage. In other words, while playing the game we wouldn't need to wipe out a whack of houses just to get more traffic through, we could simply widen the road but keep what we have. I remember a while back someone brought up the concept of a "future avenue", which would be a Maxis road on two tiles (super-wide boulevards?)for the purpose of upgrading later to a Maxis avenue. Another interesting concept, methinks... although probably a waste of time & effort when we can just build a normal road and leave a tile empty along one side.
@ j-dub:True about the OWR-3/MAVE-6 but on diagonals it would be awkward to build or intersect, I would assume?
That assuption would be on the money. Diagonals have always been tricky to replicate, take SAM for example. It didn't have diagonals when it was brand new, and thats only pathed on a smaller scale. So, I doubt if and when the first verison is accomplished, I'm guessing some stuff won't have diagonals, or intersections even for otrtho at all.
I've been playing around with the NWM for the past little bit. Here's a little teaser of mine:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg223.imageshack.us%2Fimg223%2F8655%2Fterransettlementfeb1366as4.jpg&hash=6f62c9779156f2a410b0c4117105aab887c579a8)
Yes, it will be possible!
Best,
-Haljackey
Looking good Haljackey! :thumbsup:
Cant wait for these to be released...
Great Update! :thumbsup: &apls
Very good, Hal. Of course, it's not a true MAVE-6, since there is a slight median, but the OWR-3 is perhaps my most anticipated element of the NWM. Maybe I'll be able to stop using split ground highways to represent OWR-3s in my cities. These OWR-3's do support RCI development, don't they?
Quote from: j-dub on November 02, 2008, 07:47:41 PM
...I'm guessing some stuff won't have diagonals, or intersections even for otrtho at all.
Diagonals (etc) would be nice, but beggars can't be choosers. Regardless of the depth of this release, the NWM will still provide a massive expansion to the functionality and the visual æsthetics of the game. I bet the team doesn't hear a single complaint! ()stsfd()
@ Haljackey:Awesome screen shot! So essentially we'll have a choice between a yellow line or a barrier for our 6-laners!
Well, since Hal, revealed that, I can at least tell you, I have not seen, diagonals, or interections for this network, yet. I guess it makes a small median, but it still is closer together then the regular 4 lane avenues. RCI? You will be pleased to know I can confirm it at least works with direct commercial zones, and since they already are split, no more having to use extra room to split off a Maxis highway, plus this gives you sidewalks.
Ah yes, the Maxis highway split... it's pretty useless, I never did see the point. The avenue split is a hundred times handier. I think the OWR-3 will make them both completely obsolete, though.
That looks like the Avenue des Champs-Elysees in Paris. lol
BTW- I think somebody did a project of what I requested a few month earlier. check it : http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2373.0
I have a sort of RHW-ish question about the AVE-2. What with intersections and all, would it be able to give the RHW-2 a kind of "Super-2" limited access functionality? I know not real ramps, but some sort of override or puzzle piece so that one could make an intersecting road only intersect one side of the median, like how the RHW-2 will turn into a right-turn lane when it touches only one side of an intersecting RHW4?
Quote from: zakuten on November 05, 2008, 03:38:51 PM
I have a sort of RHW-ish question about the AVE-2. What with intersections and all, would it be able to give the RHW-2 a kind of "Super-2" limited access functionality? I know not real ramps, but some sort of override or puzzle piece so that one could make an intersecting road only intersect one side of the median, like how the RHW-2 will turn into a right-turn lane when it touches only one side of an intersecting RHW4?
There could be real ramps coming to the RHW-2, zakuten. Don't give up hope yet... ;)
Cheers,
Kevin
Haljackey, &apls
Heyyy, this ain't bad! If this pair of OWR-3s is available to transition to RHW-6S, then we'll have a more aesthetic FHW/RHW-6 transition...
My advice is to use that with the one-way-road arrows removal mod. (for use as an ave-6 or alone) but that's just my preference: i'd rather have arrows in lanes approaching intersections only (none within the intersection), or none at all.
Sadly, right now in order for wider oneways to work, the reduced oneways arrow plugin has to be taken out, otherwise the new OWR refuses to work. Right now the arrows are engraved in the new OWR network. More work would be needed to the NWM to make it without the arrows.
Quote from: FreshPrinceofSC4DBTW- I think somebody did a project of what I requested a few month earlier. check it : http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2373.0
Yeah, about that. The GLR in Road/Avenue 2. I don't know what happened to it. That does not look like its a part of this, but I guess the status should be out there, since it has a striking resemblence to whats going on here. Basically it looks like a glr in a ave-2, but with just one glr track, unlike glr in avenue. Don't know how one track works, but thats how it is done with two way traffic, and a single track. The difference with that project, those are puzzle pieces, just like the rest of the glr pieces out already. The NWM is draggable. The glr in road is finshed, functionally but I don't know if oneways are yet. This also will introduce road underpasses, road under rail, road under road, road under avenue, but right now the NWM, and the underpassess don't seem to get along right now, being two seperate projects, only one of the menus show up. There have been some cosmetical changes to what some stuff had looked like in the glr in road thread, but at least you should know it is in the works, and how the two relate to this.
i like the one-way road arrows because it tells me which way traffic is going...also it looks more like Google maps or Virtual Earth. I like to know which way my people are going and if they can get to every place on the map, even the edges. There's been more action here so i think the NWM is in the early alpha phase. It might be good for Christmas but you never know. I'm just guessing. ;)
I agree debutterfly, it's always good to know. I made that mistake with some split ave's, actually laying three parallel to each other going in the same direction. Needless to say, my traffic got snarled. I think what bothers a lot of people about the arrows is certain zoom levels where the arrows are too visually overpowering. Sometimes I use split ave's for the majority of the road length but convert to OWRs at intersections to serve as a kind of "one way arrow sign" for cross-traffic, that way the arrows are mostly gone but some subtle arrows still exist to let me know what direction the traffic moves in.
And what about it? I've seen that in one MD, and it interested me so much. Is it in progress, or it stopped
http://xs232.xs.to/xs232/08416/teaser575.jpg
Quote from: kbieniu7 on November 06, 2008, 01:49:28 PM
And what about it? I've seen that in one MD, and it interested me so much. Is it in progress, or it stopped
http://xs232.xs.to/xs232/08416/teaser575.jpg
Oh, that's still under development. ;)
Quote from: SamJam on November 06, 2008, 12:43:30 PM
Sometimes I use split ave's for the majority of the road length but convert to OWRs at intersections to serve as a kind of "one way arrow sign" for cross-traffic, that way the arrows are mostly gone but some subtle arrows still exist to let me know what direction the traffic moves in.
I use the split aves (and split highways) extensively. The split avenue technique is the only way that I can get a diagonal street to connect to an OWR in a pleasing manner. The split highways serve as mock OWR-3s, but they don't provide RCI access. That's one reason why a real OWR-3, with or without arrows, is my most anticipated element of the NWM. Personally, OWR arrows don't bother me at all.
Quote from: Andreas on November 06, 2008, 01:54:36 PM
Oh, that's still under development. ;)
Thanks for answer. Good to know ;)
Heres the current situation for OWR-3 in pictures. First, as you can see, the width difference between the Maxis ground highways versus the new OWR. So yeah, the OWR beats the ground highway, its way bigger, and at this point, thats how the transition is. Maybe, just maybe that will be taken care of later. Second, as you can also see, there are no continuous intersections, as of yet at the moment. Maybe later, thats what the intersections could look like finished with signals. Again, that will just have to taken care of later. Personally I would propose just the two signals overhanging like I have pictured, but maybe after the intersection, unless by having them before blends in with avenues better. This does in fact work wonders for RCI. Sorry for the abandoned houses, those have nothing to do with this. And yes, that is a OWR auto locking into a roadxavenue intersection, but the final result should be different for connecting to an avenue. So before we get back to the NWM, keep watching to see what happens with the RHW first.
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IMHO, the OWR-3 at an intersection should have three signal heads above it. From what I have seen, there is typically at least one signal head per lane. Of course, this may not even be possible, and it may not represent the style of intersection seen in most areas, but that's just what I have seen. Of course, I'll take the OWR-3 when it comes with 2 signal heads at the intersection, or with 1 or 0. I'm just giving an example.
From my knowledge of OWRs, it may not be possible at all to have realistic traffic lights on them. The T21s can only work in such a way that they are forever imperfect. &mmm (Can't really put my thoughts into coherent words but I know what I'm trying to say...)
Unless a puzzle piece could be made...? That would (to my knowledge) be a workaround to this problem that requires a little bit of user-input (more than just dragging the OWR through an intersection)
In my state, when it comes to three straight lanes, for some reason they usually just do two signals over three lanes. The turn lane will have a seperate light, which makes three, but, there actually is only two through lane signals overhead. There could be a third straight signal on the pole, though. However, signals are likely to be the last priority for the NWM.
How I wish this mod was still in the activly worked on stage.... would be such a nice weather to have floating around in my cities! :'(
Don't worry Tilarium. Everyone wishes that these creations were in our cities. ;) Alex (Tarkus) is kind of busy with the RHW 3.0 and the end of his term at the University. After wrapping up Version 3.0 which is a huge stepping stone from 2.0 he should be focusing his work on the "neglected" projects of his. ;) But hey, you never know what Alex has up his sleeve. :D
As soon as the latest RHW is done, this will be taken care of. Not that this will be out this year, or anytime soon afterward, but work will return to this, right after the latest RHW. Again, you'll just have to wait and see. Think of this like a TV show, where would the show be if it was resolved instantly?
&apls :thumbsup: Most well put response there JD and I couldnt think of a better way to say it myself!!!
About the one way road 3 to Highway transition have you considered having a puzzle piece to make the transition?
will this project have a left hand side plugin???
Quote from: darraghf on November 30, 2008, 01:45:37 AM
will this project have a left hand side plugin???
Every NAM related project will have files to support users whose traffic drives on the left. It is one of the NAM standards for releasing content to the public.
-Swamper
thanks
i wondering too
can we download this ?when?
but lights are missing its not real :o
czkimi: This is not yet available for download. As a policy, the NAM Team does not announce release dates. They like to surprise people. ;)
As far as the lights and other stuff, those won't be added in until later.
I'll put another side note on this:
I've tried the NWM and it's very hard to work with. I can't even make a very simple intersection quickly with the NWM, because the intersections get quickly messed up. So until that problem is solved, the NWM should probably not be released.
Oh, and by the way, the new turninglane plugin is awfully slow on my computer. I have to wait 30 sec. until something happens :(
Best,
Maarten
Maarten,
I can't remember but I'm sure if there are paths for the new Turning Lanes atm, or if you are in LHD then their probably aren't LHD paths yet, that is why it will be slow to draw.
It is possible to use, just not every instance of every intersection is RULed in yet, you have to RUL the piece with every other possible piece it could be next to, leading to sometimes 1000s of lines of RULs.
I can back mrtnrln up. The new turning lanes are slower to build, I have right hand drive. They are not always automatically drawn. It needs to overide the street transition(s). Because of the overide with reverting to street, could explain why its alot slower. They also have no signals. At the moment, it doesn't seem to allow opposite turning lanes within two tiles, because how it has to be built like you can now with the current turning lane plugin. Instead of using roads for turning lanes, in my case, I use the turn lanes supplied from tla 3 that have traffic lights. With the intersection alot wider, it allows diagonals to fit better into the intersection right away. Look at how the diagonal road runs into the signalized intersection at the bottom.
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The avenue intersections just need careful drawing and clicking on certain parts of places so it can figure out how to draw the crossroad. Believe me though, the NWM is not something you want rushed to the market.
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LoL Jdub I was about to ask if you lost it but then I noticed the color of the traffic light hmmm intresting sweet!!!!!
Quote from: j-dub on December 07, 2008, 10:03:08 AM
Believe me though, the NWM is not something you want rushed to the market.
This is exactly right. It is much better for something to work when it is released, even if it may take a while longer. I'm not necessarily saying that the NWM doesn't work, but it does look a bit unwieldy. Is that left turn signal really red, while the through signals are green?
Yes, but if and when released, the final version may not do it. The red light is only working because the through signals don't want to change red, but the signal over the turn lane is just red when the side of the T is.
Well, even with the current left turn mod, not even the NWM, the left turn lights don't sync for me, so I dunno. Might just be another unsolvable mystery of the EXE. &mmm
Well, the current Alpha Build is still extraordinarily rough. It's not even time to start worrying about traffic signals, yet, really. ::)
One of these days, I need to get back to it, but the RHW comes first right now.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Hmmm... looks like I uninstall the NWM and the new TL-Plugin, and bring back the old one.
I wish the NWM would come out $%Grinno$% 5 lane one way roads would look cool in my city :satisfied: hey I could recreate the Champs Elysees with it... hmm with two OWR-5s placed next to each other, going in opposite directions ??? :o ;D
What you described would take 4 tiles. Two 3 lane OWRs can go next to each other though, and don't take too much space. For the moment, we have the three lane OWR, which can be put next to two lane OWR which makes 5 lanes, but the conjoined two tile OWR 5, the one you might of seen with someone with it in a mosaic, still has yet to be anounced. I wouldn't ask for it, but since we discovered we can do four lane roads, not avenues on one tile with sidewalks on each side, a one tile OWR-4 is possible, side by side with 8 lanes to only take up two tiles, versus 4 tiles from a OWR making 10 lanes, but any 4 laners on single tiles are highly unlikely to be done with the NWM, as of this moment.
The OWR5 is also in the first post of this thread (at the top of the page) in the list of network sizes and space consumed ???
Maybe the OWR-5 just isn't in the Alpha Builds yet. There's no picture of it in the main post.
The only picture i've ever seen of OWR-5 was in someone's recreation of New York - and even that was just PS'd eyecandy. &mmm Sure I'd like to have it, but I can't honestly say I'd use it much. I'd probably use OWR-3 a lot just to add variety where I already have OWRs, and I'd have a TLA-3 in shopping districts... ave-2 for suburban neighborhoods... etc.
Personally, I'd use the 5-lane OWR a lot in my downtowns. I live in Minneapolis in RL, and many of the downtown streets here have 4 or 5 lanes, all one-ways. Heck, even if some kind of eye-candy mod for the standard OWR would be awesome because I think it'd make my downtowns seem a more realistic (to me at least).
Do you think that you can add a double decker bridge?
Sort of like the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge or the Queensboro birgde in New York
That will not be likely, visually it can be done, but function is highly unlikely. Two networks will not share the same dragged bridge. Bridges are not really a high priority for the NWM right now.
&apls
Looks awesome. I've always been disappointed with the lack of variety in avenues.
Quote from: Tarkus on December 07, 2008, 07:30:06 PM
Well, the current Alpha Build is still extraordinarily rough. It's not even time to start worrying about traffic signals, yet, really. ::)
One of these days, I need to get back to it, but the RHW comes first right now.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Please when you finish the RHW continue with this!!
This was probably mentioned before, but is there a possibility of a 1 tile RD-4?
Of course, the possibility is there.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.picvalley.net%2Fu%2F1179%2F862439048.JPG&hash=cf8419afcc24eaeae806b807d211b28c44123826)
A lot of people would ask if this was possible. It would be possible to do it with a (small) sidewalk on each side. Chrisim proved it by making the T-RAM puzzle pieces, before history was able to bring this to life with the NWM. However, this type of thing to happen for the NWM is a long shot as the NWM is draggable based. We still have yet to catch up on the MAVE. Since I have been given a GLR-in RD-4, I have been using those pieces for four lane roads carrying traffic through out, even though they are designed for trams to go through the middle, and again, I have occasionally allowed trains to run through them, even though thats not what it was designed for.
remanh, it's being considered, especially in light of the addition of the Tram-on-Road pieces in the T-RAM addon.
The main problem is that because the network is a single-tile, it would have the same capacity as the default 2-lane road. It'd be eyecandy, pretty much. It makes more sense with the T-RAM pieces, since you're getting added Light Rail functionality with them.
I'm not sure what all will be happening with this project--the RHW will still be a priority for me for some time to come, though I'll have a little better idea as to what will happen with the NWM by the end of the month.
-Alex (Tarkus)
This is a great idea, but seriously, it wouldn't be fair for this concept to cut the line while other works of progress are still there.
To add my thoughts into the mix, I think I would definitely still use a 4-lane road on 1 tile even if it had the same capacity as a 2-lane road. Why? Because (I've been having long chats about this with b22rian lately) I am one of those SC4 players who only mildly cares about what the simulation engine considers the capacity of a network. Despite it having adverse effects on my cities if I disregard the capacity of a network, I still choose to upgrade roads when I think they need it, based off of my visual observations of traffic jams, and from comparing the number of commuters using a network to numbers of commuters using a similar RL network per hour (I believe Alex has mentioned the correlation between the number of SC4 commuters and the number of vehicles using a road per hour in RL before). Thus I generally disregard the traffic data view (with traffic simulator A Easy it's almost always completely green anyway) and it's related statistics, and rely on my own observations instead. And since I don't usually regard the literal capacity of a network, to me it would feel like the network in question had a larger capacity than a 2-lane road simply because it was wider, meaning that if in one of my cities I had a 2-lane road that I thought looked congested, I might upgrade it to a 4-lane, 1-tile road because in my mind it had a higher capacity. :P
As to the lack of a sidewalk... meh. I don't really care. &mmm Many roads around here don't have sidewalks even in developed areas anyway.
This question might be more appropriate on the T-RAM thread, but do the T-RAM pieces have a higher capacity than a standard road so that the added light-rail traffic does not overload the capacity? If not, doesn't that seem like a bad idea to anybody else? And if so, couldn't the 4-lane road use the T-RAM's capacity, or oh, no, wait, it would be an override of the road network, right? Then in that case the capacity would be the same, wouldn't it? :(
OK, now excuse my rambling, and I am anxiously awaiting Alex returning to work on this after the public release of RHW 3.0.
Oh, and welcome to page 51 and the 4-digit posts.
-DTP
Well with any network, and any simulator, we all know the capacity differs, but there are limits as well. All I know is, since I have used the particular mentioned concept network, is that there is a behavior difference with the simulator, which is requiring car traffic to use both lanes when it clogs in the three digit numbers, but again the glr in road, is a different network then a road that has been given extra lane use.
Is it possible to create reversible lanes? That would help with a highway like if it only has 3 lanes, you can have the 2 middle lanes switch directions for rush hour times
No. This is due to the game's limitation. However, this isn't what you want, but the middle lane could always be pathed two directions at the same time, and T21ed timed props could be made to simulate this, but you would have cars moving in and out of each other at the same time, during heavy traffic, and this is likely not going to happen soon.
The other thing is the NWM is more a local network project, which goes the other direction compared to the Rural Highway project. However, even though this picture below was proposed for the NWM, and looks like it could be a highway...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg522.imageshack.us%2Fimg522%2F1306%2Fave61stlook05072007td6.jpg&hash=d6a6b5a2d11580b673790fef430cf4410a491b51)
The same concept actually ended up being permanently another part of the RHW.
genemc777, I can confirm j-dub's answer. It's technically not possible, since there's no way we can produce "timed paths", unfortunately, though some sort of "eyecandy" setup that looks like reversible lanes is possible.
That AVE-6 proposal, which did kind of get "recycled" as the RHW-6C in the upcoming RHW Version 3.0 release, though, will eventually make its way into the NWM as well, as originally planned.
I can also assure you all that I am indeed going to be coming back to this project after the release of RHW Version 3.0 (and in fact, I might have even kinda already started again . . . :D).
-Alex (Tarkus)
Does that mean that the RHW release is closer than "iminent?" ::)
Quote from: Tarkus on January 11, 2009, 05:52:49 PM
(and in fact, I might have even kinda already started again . . . :D).
Fantastic...this is an important project...new and improved avenues are sorely needed.
i totally agree, wider roads and avenues are more important to me than the rhw version 3 but i just think of all the puzzle pieces and it makes me cringe. although i must say i can't wait for that 5 lane oneway rd ;D
good job alex your hard work is much appreciated :)
KN, its the NWM is not implemented through puzzle pieces, but starter pieces for Draggable networks, as is the RHW as well.
Aha! I just spotted this project had a logo change this month.
Quote from: j-dub on January 12, 2009, 12:38:50 PM
Aha! I just spotted this project had a logo change this month.
I've just notice that only now :D nice ;)
I salute Tarkus decision to retake this significantly important job. :party: In fact, I believe everyone round here ()meeting() has been looking forward to this longly awaited event eagerly. I hope we'll have new images of the advancements for the masses to please our eyes very soon!! ;D
and bless you Tarkus, for taking your time to make this.. &scl() waiting on this one for long ;)
Hey Alex I love the new overview post there wow!!! The logo is stunning and also good to hear you are plucking away at NWM again ;)
Tarkus, its great that you're back on the NWM (actively working on it). Hopefully this means RHW will be out any time now. Could you please include some photos of the MAVE in the stickied post?
i only meant that it would be very time consuming for alex to make all the different pieces that it would need in order to coexist with the rhw project
I am ashamed to say that, although I was vaguely aware of this project a while back, I had completely forgotten about it. I can't get over how much progress has been made since I last looked at this thread! This is going to be another game-changing addition to SC4. Well done to all involved! :thumbsup:
If I'm not mistaken, you have a new logo there. Looks good.
I personally can't wait for the mave. It will lok so much more realistic
So I guess this is next after the RHW release ;)
What NWM networks will be able to go diagonally or have bridges?
The AVE-3 can go diagonal, but there are no paths in it yet, and its not clear if diagonal intersections with turn lanes are something that can be done so far. The TLA-5 was on Alex's master plan to go diagonal, but its road based and not avenue based, and since they have to be dragged diagonal side by side, you can guess how much modding work that is. Whether that can do diagonal intersections with turn lanes is another story.
@ Tarkus (aka Alex :P),
I know you like refurbish the game with new features, but the TLA-x is dangerous road :o. I know you live in Oregon $%#Ninj2, but even in USA they are changing this type of road with roundabouts or bound turning lanes (turn-arounds?) (i hope u can understand my bad english &ops).
The AVE-x, MAVE n OWR-x is a good idea.
@ MAVE Devs: Can u make a 6 lane version?
Over here on the opposite coast, in Virginia, they're still building new roads with center turn lanes, and I, having driven on my fair share, must say that I find nothing dangerous about them. Besides, you don't have to use it in your cities if you find it too dangerous for your sims. :P
And since this thread has been dug up anyway, any more progress, Alex? ;)
It seems the Mississippi Department of Transportation has missed that memo, vinlabsc3k. They're still building TLA-3 and 5's like mad around here, with no end in sight.
And I have to agree with DTP, I've never felt that they are dangerous roads at speeds under 55 mph (80 kph).
Cheers,
Kevin
I know: "if u don't like it, don't use it" :P,
but to give the project an international style and to save time and energy for all the developers %%Order?/.
However keep up the good work!! :thumbsup:
Quote from: vinlabsc3k on January 30, 2009, 05:11:11 PM
but to give the project an international style
Well, TLAs, while they are rare outside the US and Canada, do exist, from what I've seen. While the non-North American userbase is fairly large, the US one is as well--I'd estimate about 50/50. Plus, they also allow for crossover traffic, allowing your sim-motorists to access zones on the other side of the road, even when the other side is on another tile.
And they haven't stopped building them here in Oregon, either. There's been plenty of new ones springing up all over here. I've never seen any accidents on any, and there's actually been a number of projects to replace MAVEs with TLAs here--the MAVEs are actually more dangerous, imo, particularly when you have people making left turns off them.
As far as new development news goes, there has indeed been some more work done. Like the RHW thread, though, I'm planning to seriously curtail teasing. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
Ah, progress. I hope it is progressing... nicely.
a wise decision on your part alex, it was getting kinda crazy towards the end of the version 3 release, good job :)
Well, I say that only for (positive) critic ;) and I love a so entusiastic player as u &bis&.
Quote from: Tarkus on January 30, 2009, 05:21:08 PM
Well, TLAs, while they are rare outside the US and Canada, do exist, from what I've seen. While the non-North American userbase is fairly large, the US one is as well--I'd estimate about 50/50. Plus, they also allow for crossover traffic, allowing your sim-motorists to access zones on the other side of the road, even when the other side is on another tile.
And they haven't stopped building them here in Oregon, either. There's been plenty of new ones springing up all over here. I've never seen any accidents on any, and there's actually been a number of projects to replace MAVEs with TLAs here--the MAVEs are actually more dangerous, imo, particularly when you have people making left turns off them.
As far as new development news goes, there has indeed been some more work done. Like the RHW thread, though, I'm planning to seriously curtail teasing. ;)
-Alex (Tarkus)
I've seen accidents, the problem in my hometown is that people also use them as merge lanes, which is what ussually leads to the head on or swide swipes. Very lucky up there no one has ever been killed.
I know here in Southeastern Wisconsin (Kenosha), we have a state highway going north to south (Highway 31 or Green Bay Road) that uses left turn lanes for most of it's route even though there is no road to turn onto. Speeds range from 35 MPH to 55 MPH with 2 to 3 lanes in easch direction with heave traffic at times as it connects Kenosha with Racine and Illinois. Alex, If you can, take a look on Google Earth and go around to different towns and cities to see what they have and and check out what I am saying (search for Kenosha, Wisconsin then find Highway 31) Miklwaukee also has them left turn lanes to nowhere too. Cops (the police) love the LTLNs. Waqiting quietly for anything. JKB
My state has plenty of turn lanes into no where as well. Sometimes traffic lights are at those intersections. I recorded a truck not realizing he had no where to go after making a turn at a turn lane to nothing.
Real SC4 long unfinished road experience
http://www.youtube.com/v/PSU72lz9ZP0
I see MAVE's and TLA-x's quite commonly in my area, but they mainly appear in urban areas, and they don't go into nowhere. Those that do appear in rural areas where I'm from are present near small clusters of commerce. I definitely think they should be included in the NWM, by the way. When it comes to transit, I always say, "The more, the better," whether there's teasing or not.
Theres a TLA-4 near where I live.
And MAVES are EVERYWHERE ;D
Also, can there be eyecandy NWM networks where there are eyecandy parking at the sides, like a MAVE-4 with parking lanes at each side. For added realism.
Some one could T-21 cars in the parkways, but I wouldn't want that in suburban or unzoned areas. It would have to be above medium wealth for me.
Like an option, but a mod where you could still have normal MAVE, and another network that would be a MAVE-4 but the extra on the sides would be zoned parking lanes, and in rural areas it would be shoulders.
That sounds good, but personally I think a lot of other networks, the ones existing should be allowed that too. This shoulder thing could just be done by a T-21 prop, but that will have to be done somewhere else at another time because as ideas still are being born in the NWM, function always comes first before cosmetics.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.picvalley.net%2Fu%2F1369%2F2000213472.JPG&hash=7285a95fdc166bf8e9e26cf1e585896ad8f6170f)
And then maybe, just maybe, the future of diagonal networks can be taken care of.
hey is there already an release date of this??
and i have some questions?
is this mod useable with nam and rhw and other mods/plugins?
(Ps i am new too these plugins for sc4. sooooo)
Quote from: Dexist on February 04, 2009, 01:55:30 AM
hey is there already an release date of this??
and i have some questions?
is this mod useable with nam and rhw and other mods/plugins?
(Ps i am new too these plugins for sc4. sooooo)
Read the first post of the page, in it there is also a FAQ.
QuoteThere is no release date or timeline for the NWM project. It will be released when it is done.
No Dex. This goes for any noob. If you all looked at the top of the thread, you will clearly see NO release date yet. The reason? The past year, all energy was on the RHW project and only one person has the knowledge, talent, and time to do this, Tarkus. Now since RHW 3.0 has been taken care of, it will be the NWM's turn for new development. Compatibility? The NWM would be an additional NAM component, and could not work without the NAM. Right now there is a compatibility issue with this and FLUPs where FLUPs won't work with this at the same time do to the latest controller build. No, there probably won't be a connection to this with FLUPs. It will be a very long time for everything to be interfaced with everything, because just like RHW 3.0, this has so many new networks being added to it as well, and is road based, with the exception of the OWR (which still is roadway) and other people will be making other networks. I did experiment, and find some T-RAM pieces to override and work with this mod. Thats besides the point, the NWM is not even finished. Why would you want something left undone? A good reason to wonder where the NWM is, is because the T-RAM NAM addition did introduce NWM like features. After being introduced to a 4 lane type of road with sidewalks from the T-RAM, there is a new NMAVE (narrow median less avenue) concept, single tile road based.
Will there be a Canadian Version of the TLA released whenever it is released? (In Canada the dashes are on the outside)
Quote from: Kitsune on February 04, 2009, 03:51:07 PM
Will there be a Canadian Version of the TLA released whenever it is released? (In Canada the dashes are on the outside)
I'd assume it would have to be made separately, just like SA made the Euro RHW mod. I'd like to see this too, but it isn't too bad seeing it on the inside.
Best,
-Haljackey
To me as an American, i think the dashes on the outside would be more logical than the inside layout we have here, but something tells me that the outside-dashed format would just look weird to me... I could probably get used to it though.
I could of sworn in Chi that whoever painted the lines one time did put the dashed out, and the solid in. Where I live it is solid out, dashed in, and it looks ridiculous to see a white solid line on the right side of the left turn lane, and a dashed line in the middle next to the arrow, and a solid yellow line on the left.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.picvalley.net%2Fu%2F1367%2F1982922878.JPG&hash=8567e7dff0c8af7d6ab2229ab35cfd71bc87ca1a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.picvalley.net%2Fu%2F971%2F1635511656.JPG&hash=0b6c459da6bddcfee7f645bb113872cec89f0fb6)
You could say its a TLA3, but whats with the paint job?
Now that looks weird. I don't see the NWM going Canadian now. All one would have to do while using Windows XP is to change the texture themselves in paint, and flip the lines, then replace them in the reader. I have Vista though, so its not like I have the privilege to get to do that type of stuff, and I'm not in Canada, so no outer dashed lines for me.
Sometimes the center left turn lane becomes a dedicated left turn lane at major intersections. That looks like that's what that is in your pictures.
Is the TLA-5 dragged based on Avenue? If it is, it would be lot easier for diagonal functionality.
No the TLA-5 is based on road, becuase this is easier to mod :)
Jonathan
Re: J-Dub's complaint about that turn lane:
That is as Burgsabre said a dedicated left-turn lane. It can only be used by traffic traveling on the side with traffic going towards the camera in the first image. The white line on one side of it is white because traffic travels strictly in the same direction on either side (otherwise it would be yellow), and solid because it can only be crossed if there is an obstruction, such as a disabled vehicle or a meteorite crater in the way. The yellow line is dashed because it indicates passing is allowed on one side only (the side with the dashed line facing it) - NOT because it indicates a two-way turn lane. Around here in southwest Virginia, this setup with passing allowed at the same place as a turn lane is never used: Passing on the side approaching the intersection is not allowed within i guess 500ft or so of the beginning of the turn lane, and traffic going away from the intersection is allowed to pass immediately after they have passed the turn lane on the other side of the road, given that traffic isn't immediately approaching a curve or another intersection.
It's also almost a given that when the TLA-5 goes diagonal, those diagonals will be wider than the Avenue diagonals so as to have room for the turn lane.
-Alex (Tarkus)
Yeah why is it that diagonal networks like avenues look weird and narrow compared to orthogonal?
This is mainly because a diagonal avenue simply fits into a smaller space than an orthogonal avenue, so it actually is narrower. An orthogonal avenue is a 2-tile wide network. Part of this width is given to the median separating the two directions of traffic, and another part is taken by the sidewalks running on either side of the avenue. A diagonal avenue, on the other hand, is still a 2-tile network by footprint size, but the entire width of the avenue is visually compressed into the equivalent of about 1.4 tiles. This does not allow as much room for sidewalks or medians, since the lane width must be maintained, and the turning lane would take the space used for the median, so a wider diagonal avenue would be needed.
Yeah metarvo, there will be widening for a 5 lane diagonal network. Remember, I did a math test with a fifth lane on the avenue, and the games highways try to compress 6 lanes on the same amount of space as a diagonal avenue, don't forget, its tight. The TLA-5 which is road based, but looks like an avenue is going to be longer than the game's avenue, just like the width of glr-in-avenue diagonal, so you can count on the TLA-5 sidewalk to be bigger, otherwise why go all that way, you know the middle lane can't be too wide.
Id like to request the NWM also gives diagonal Avenue wider for a median. ;)
Quote from: nerdly_dood on February 04, 2009, 05:53:31 PM
To me as an American, i think the dashes on the outside would be more logical than the inside layout we have here, but something tells me that the outside-dashed format would just look weird to me... I could probably get used to it though.
Logic is the reason I'd like to see it myself. Although I personally don't find anything wrong
visually with having the dashes on the inside, it is actually completely illogical from a traffic law standpoint. Dashes on the inside indicate that the traffic coming in the opposite direction can legally pass into your lane, whereas you are not allowed to enter the middle lane because you have a solid line. It works exactly the same way as a two-lane road with a dash/solid line--if you have the dashed line you may move into the other lane. For a TLA, the dashes need to be on the outside to indicate that you can enter the middle lane, while the solid line on the inside indicates that the opposed traffic cannot enter your lane.
Any updates? $%Grinno$%
The creator would show us if there was.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg178.imageshack.us%2Fimg178%2F173%2F91ststreet250thave.jpg&hash=b46fc66d9b45699595d9b60eba059dcb9e1a5e83)
May or may not have seen this already, but currently the NWM is set up that you can choose to have signals or not on the road turning lanes. This may not be finalized. Yeah, you see some unique not Maxis streetlights over the AvenuexTLA3 in this picture, but that is not this.
A200: Rest assured that if there is anything to post here in the form of an update that Alex (Tarkus) will do so.
Please refrain from badgering about whether or not any updates are ready, here or elsewhere.
I would like to add to the debate with the dashes/solid yellow lines inside or outside on the turning lane (speaking from a United States standpoint since that is what I have been researching). The way that the team has it created with the solid lines to the outside is CORRECT. Something that seems to be getting people caught up is that the lines take on a slightly different meaning when you have three or more lanes of traffic.
Since the examples show a two-way left-turn lane that is never operated as a reversible lane, the solid lines are placed on the outside to delineate the edges of a lane that can be used by traffic in either direction as part of a left-turn. I believe that the reason it is set up as this is that this is the only way, other than using signage and other markings, that a dedicated two-way left-turn lane can be designated. If the dashes were on the outside, the assumption would be that the middle lane served as a dedicated passing lane for both directions of travel and like it was stated, this is not a passing lane but a dedicated turning lane.
I hope that this was able to clear up some of the questions from at least the way that the United States Department of Transportation views it.
It makes sense, but Canada flipped it with their TLA's. But its interesting you bring that point about dashed solid yellow lines having different meaning on roads/highways once it reaches three lanes. On a three lane road in my state, a real ASR (formerly SLR), the one side with parallel traffic has the dashed white lines, but the opposing has just regular dashed yellow lines, instead of the double yellow lines currently associated with this mod. That is for flat land, but when it comes to steep slopes, then the double yellow line is on the ASR.
I think it's been mentioned somewhere already - but not all of canada has that kind of line - British Columbia has instead a double dashed line on either side of the turning lane. When one considers that double-dashed lines are never used for any purpose, this seems even more logical than the standard Canadian outside-dashed line layout because a line thats dashed on one side and solid on the other could either mean a center turning lane, or a road where passing is restricted to one side.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Double dashed lines are for variable direction lanes. At certain times of the day, the central lane will change direction to accommodate the traffic flow. So in the morning it might be set in one direction and another in the evening, just to handle the rush hour traffic.
Such lanes usually have signals over them indicating whether that lane can be used in the direction you are headed. A red X indicates the lane is closed, a green arrow indicates that it is open for use, and a yellow arrow indicates that the lane is changing direction soon and you need to leave it when safe to do so.
-Swamper
Quote from: Swamper77 on March 11, 2009, 04:16:07 PM
Double dashed lines are for variable direction lanes. At certain times of the day, the central lane will change direction to accommodate the traffic flow. So in the morning it might be set in one direction and another in the evening, just to handle the rush hour traffic.
Such lanes usually have signals over them indicating whether that lane can be used in the direction you are headed. A red X indicates the lane is closed, a green arrow indicates that it is open for use, and a yellow arrow indicates that the lane is changing direction soon and you need to leave it when safe to do so.
-Swamper
Just wanted to add that what Jan said about variable direction lanes is exactly the way the United States Department of Transportation has it written.
Why are you argueing about lines??
I'm european so I don't care ;) :D
Just a question will there be euro textures??
Can the AVE-6 be built as a bridge?
Quote from: Sgwk372 on March 12, 2009, 03:47:11 PM
Can the AVE-6 be built as a bridge?
If once it's out someone's willing to make one then it would probably be possible... ;)
there's a few of these that are possible.....
i'd have to look at the paths to be sure, though. im sure *someone* will have a look..... ;)
So when will be NWM ready for use?
when its ready.....
Maybe if the AVE-6 could swing back into the RHW-6 which also has a proposed bridge this could save the issue of making another bridge? Just a thought, since you can't build off a bridge anyway, and I also thought they both were 3 tile networks.
I just gotta say, this is a very cool and exciting project! I really look forward to using it in my cities in the future! Kudos! :)
Quote from: j-dub on March 13, 2009, 03:07:36 PM
Maybe if the AVE-6 could swing back into the RHW-6 which also has a proposed bridge this could save the issue of making another bridge? Just a thought, since you can't build off a bridge anyway, and I also thought they both were 3 tile networks.
the 6C and ave6 dont appear to be "bridge capable", in the conventional sense, as they are 3 tile networks. meaning, we cannot build a 3 tile bridge (at least, no ones been able to successfully), because any paths outside the tile boundaries will be invalid. now, with some pathing changes and creative BATing, a 6C bridge could be constructed similar to the 6S bridge, i.e. a one-way bridge that must be drawn twice. but there would then be little difference between those networks.
an ave6 looks like it will fall under the same problem, but could be alternatively addressed by "squeezing" the paths onto a GHW bridge......similar to whats going on with the wide RHW bridges.
an issue i see coming to the forefront is the number of overrides w.r.t. the number of bridges......the road bridge selection menu will be stuffed with various bridges for different override networks should any be made..
what's happening at the moment whith this??
I don't know. It seems like Alex is doing some more RHW work, recently you may have seen some new stuff in that thread.
I have! especially the RHW FLUPS!!
How long you guys worked on this project?
Quote from: Sgwk372 on March 21, 2009, 01:04:23 PM
How long you guys worked on this project?
The project was started in December 2006, so close to 2 1/2 years now. Been mostly off and on, and there's been a lot of stuff we've had to get in place (i.e. completely revamping the Road Turning Lanes Plugin) that has complicated things.
-Alex
I even made a promise that I won't play Simcity 4 until this project is ready to use. :thumbsup:
that's crazy lool I'll play it anyway, thought I would like to have this in my plugins :p
Don't hold your breath, there's plenty of excellent creations out there you can use before the NWM comes out! It won't be just a month or two, it'll take quite a bit longer before you'll be able to use the NWM.
Its okay I'll wait.
RHW VERSION 3.0
HERE!
The highway relvolution is coming
@aaaling: umm thanks for the announcement, but that came out about a month ago...
Two and a half to be exact $%Grinno$%
Aaaling does make a point about the RHW. It would be unfair to stop playing this game, waiting for the NWM when Tarkus had to do all that for the last RHW release alone. At this point though, the RHW seems to be following off very limited NWM elements. Take the selectable turn lanes for example, those are already looking to be used for future RHW development, but they are also planned for roads, and came from here first. I had noticed prototype RHW stuff wanting to work with NWM stuff, where it almost looks like Tarkus is already at the point to make both network types interact with each other, but the NWM still has yet to be born, the RHW is still growing.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F5207%2Frhwtonwm.jpg&hash=241a43f9ce83e4316d4cb6211f4a8c82e9d42823) (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rhwtonwm.jpg)
Hey how come when I'm trying to log on with the same account I use here in the BSC Lot Exchange, a picture with a gorilla and a keyboard shows up?
BTW Sorry for going off topic.
Quote from: Sgwk372 on April 05, 2009, 07:24:21 PM
Hey how come when I'm trying to log on with the same account I use here in the BSC Lot Exchange, a picture with a gorilla and a keyboard shows up?
The login for the Exchange and the Forums is separate.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on April 05, 2009, 07:30:17 PM
The login for the Exchange and the Forums is separate.
-Alex
Hmm, it worked when I used this account
This might have been mentioned earlier, but will the AVE-6 be able to seamlessly connect with the RHW-6C?
Quote from: remanh on April 06, 2009, 08:57:12 AM
This might have been mentioned earlier, but will the AVE-6 be able to seamlessly connect with the RHW-6C?
That's a good question . . . and gives me some ideas. ;)
This looks awesome. I can't wait...
Oh, hello first post.
I know I can't wait for this to be released.
The new stuff looks awesome
Whoa... Just one word: "T'riffic". Really, it's beautiful! &apls
If this has been asked before I do not recall ssing it even reading throughout this thread(I may have missed it though), but will the Tram in Ave be compatible with the extra lanes?
Quote from: mike3775 on April 17, 2009, 01:51:41 PM
If this has been asked before I do not recall ssing it even reading throughout this thread(I may have missed it though), but will the Tram in Ave be compatible with the extra lanes?
We haven't gotten to that point in development yet, really.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on April 17, 2009, 02:38:39 PM
We haven't gotten to that point in development yet, really.
-Alex
Not a problem at all, just wondering.
Add me to the list eagerly awaiting this mod though, the stuff is getting better and better every day it seems
Just one question (the same on I asked earlier) can the AVE-6 cross canyons, valleys, mountains, rivers and other bodies of water?
The AVE-6 will be able to go over any type of land, just like you would do with the Road network (which it is based on). The bridge stuff is an unknown at this time, as it's a 3-tile network. There's been some proposals out there (making a "MAVE-6" bridge based on Maxis Highways, for instance), but that's probably a ways out. I don't anticipate the AVE-6 or any of the 3-tile networks will be in Version 1.
-Alex
it's anyone working for this proyect??
Because it looks that the proyect is in stand-by or canceled ()what()
absolutely......just behind the scenes....
Will take long time to launch?
It will be ready when it is ready, no release date as then the content is either rushed and not as good or you miss your deadline and it all fails miserably :)
Jonathan
Quote from: ruste200 on April 24, 2009, 10:30:55 AM
Will take long time to launch?
Its been a work in progress for over 2 and a half years, but yes progress is being made. Its a painstakingly long, difficult process to make these types of transit networks, and we have to be patient as its development continues.
What Haljackey said. Override networking is some of the most difficult transit modding in SC4.
And which will be the networks which will be in the first release?
I believe Alex said at one point that most likely it would just be the 1-tile networks in the first release, but I might be mistaken.
Thanks... I was secretly hoping that the ave 6 will be in the first release.
Really, I'll probably definitely be glad for the first release whenever it comes. It's the OWR-3 and TLA-3 that I'm really looking forward to anyway. Even if some NWM elements are finding their way into the RHW, and I'm happy that they are, one big difference to always remember is RCI functionality. That's my dream right now. I'm already planning to use the OWR-3 as a "temporary" AVE-6 until the real thing is ready, as long as the OWR-3 is released before the AVE-6.
Keep up the good work, Alex and all, and take all of the time necessary to make this as good as it can be. :thumbsup:
OWR-3 + RHW/MIS connection = Texas frontage road!
Now that's what I'm excited about, folks.
Can you include pictures of the MAVE-4 and the MAVE 6?
I mean for Tarkus.
aaaling: Please edit your first post in the future instead of double posting.
Regarding the pictures you requested, I'm not even sure how far along the MAVE-4/6 are.
Well, my plan has been to not show any development pics in public until the day of the release. ;) We like to surprise people. ;)
(And no, that does not mean we're close or anything, though things are progressing steadily behind closed doors. :))
-Alex
Continuating on Tarkus: It does mean that he wants to avoid a situation as there was with the RHW 3.0 shortly before it was released: people demanding it's release, causing the thread to be closed. We don't want that happening here, do we?
However, Tarkus, we have been good lately, so could you please so us just one teaser, just one itsy pitsy tiny teaser?
The way I see it, if the people do not want to give a teaser, they should not feel pressured to give a teaser at all.
I can see the following occurring:
Someone posts a teaser, a few days later, someone asks for another teaser and so on and so on.
I can wait until its released to find out all that I need to know.
the irony in that post is astounding......
besides, all the time Tarkus would take to post a teaser could be used to finish the mod quicker.... ;)
There are some pics at the top!! :D :D
Perhaps if I posted a couple more pics, would that suffice? ::)
Click for full resolution! (1920x1200)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo101%2Fhaljackey3%2FTerranSettlement-Feb23711226202000.jpg&hash=c53112aa61d42f2866675e54a0dc90708a0df843) (http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/haljackey3/TerranSettlement-Feb23711226202000.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo101%2Fhaljackey3%2FTerranSettlement-Oct8701226201765.jpg&hash=679f500dddb22a1341cef31efc0233a707dca6cf) (http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/haljackey3/TerranSettlement-Oct8701226201765.jpg)
Hope you enjoyed it! :P
-Haljackey
Of course we enjoyed these pictures! They're great! :thumbsup:
Quote from: burgsabre87 on April 28, 2009, 01:01:23 PM
aaaling: Please edit your first post in the future instead of double posting.
Regarding the pictures you requested, I'm not even sure how far along the MAVE-4/6 are.
I'm just making sure not anyone else could post a pic.
Quote from: Tarkus on April 28, 2009, 03:38:35 PM
Well, my plan has been to not show any development pics in public until the day of the release. ;) We like to surprise people. ;)
(And no, that does not mean we're close or anything, though things are progressing steadily behind closed doors. :))
-Alex
Well then, why did you post pics of the TLA 3,5, and 7?
Quote from: Haljackey on April 29, 2009, 03:25:28 PM
Perhaps if I posted a couple more pics, would that suffice? ::)
Click for full resolution! (1920x1200)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo101%2Fhaljackey3%2FTerranSettlement-Feb23711226202000.jpg&hash=c53112aa61d42f2866675e54a0dc90708a0df843) (http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/haljackey3/TerranSettlement-Feb23711226202000.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi366.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo101%2Fhaljackey3%2FTerranSettlement-Oct8701226201765.jpg&hash=679f500dddb22a1341cef31efc0233a707dca6cf) (http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo101/haljackey3/TerranSettlement-Oct8701226201765.jpg)
Hope you enjoyed it! :P
-Haljackey
NOM
What's that big building in the pics?
Quote from: aaaling on April 29, 2009, 04:24:05 PM
Well then, why did you post pics of the TLA 3,5, and 7?
Those pics are two years old. ;)
-Alex
Hi everyone-
Welcome back to the NWM development thread! We're still not quite to the point of the long-awaited initial release of this project, but after a year of development behind closed doors, we are finally ready to show you some of our work-in-progress. The initial "sticky post" (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg33176#msg33176) in the thread now contains an FAQ and some other useful information regarding the project, that you may find interesting.
You may also note the use of the pronoun "we". I'm part of that "we", as is my good friend and colleague from Down Under, Dave (superhands). Dave was an instrumental part of the RAM Team's development of Single-Track Rail, and he came on board the NWM project early in 2009. He's been an absolutely invaluable part of this project, producing a majority of the textures and putting together some of the puzzle pieces, while I've mostly been wrangling the RUL 0x10000002 end. It's been a true team effort. :thumbsup:
I also need to thank jplumbley, z, Ryan B., smoncrie and memo for their help over the past 3 years.
And without further ado, a few pics of what we've been up to since early 2009 . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F8071%2Fnwm042420091.jpg&hash=909bdc2944a522a4055e5637f69940de5a61bd89)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg130.imageshack.us%2Fimg130%2F6167%2Fnwm030920101.jpg&hash=d86a6616b88cd70fc5e5cc1bd730fd1346c92149)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.imageshack.us%2Fimg15%2F3733%2Fpiccompetition04112009.jpg&hash=7599c95e5880de1cb3e1f9bd10af6e19a950c346)
Enjoy!
-Alex
OMG! I can't stop staring at the pictures. This will be so great.
One question: Will there be transition pieces (e.g. maxis avenue to mave-4)?
Certainly. These transistion pieces are as far as I know quite finished.
Making puzzle pieces isn't the hardest part. The hardest part of the whole NWM mod is actually the texture override code and making textures.
Best,
Maarten
RickD, when I got to take a look, there were transition pieces including Ave to Mave-4, and Mave-4 to TLA. The NWM is getting further and further in terms of feature and function, but it still is under construction.
fantastic work my friend, it has been a long time coming.
Oh my gosh! This is absolutely wonderful, some great development pics you've posted Alex. But, what ever happened to Daniel's textures in the making, because, of course Euro textures will be needed.
Ethan
U guys Rock.....need I to say more? ;)
Fred
Alex I think your being modest as your contribution has been the foundations of bricks and mortar whilst mine is just render :P
needless to say below are the
Road-to-Ave-2 and
Mave-6 to Ave-4 Type A Transitions...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2FROADTOAVE2.png&hash=f9c5d76083d0612c734093525f4e9f4093028482)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2FMAVE-6TOAVE-4.png&hash=50112a63f7549cee5ef978a2cdd2f08db12d91e2)
-Dave
May as well post this video containing NWM components too now that this thread has new life:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Fr9AKY5Rs1E&=22&ap=%2526fmt%3D22
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr9AKY5Rs1E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr9AKY5Rs1E)
Awesome pics guys! The NWM has come a long way from its toddler years that's for sure!
It's good to see that the NWM is alive, Alex! &apls Now I can start planning for NWM networks to be included in my cities, and maybe I can set up construction zones like in RL. The OWR-1 looks like it would be good for narrow, one-way alleys, and it might even do as a synthetic OWS (One-Way Street).
Awesome video Haljackey! Yet another gigantic project that looks to good to be true! :P I can't wait for it to come out, superb work! :)
Excellent work, guys! Really loving that road-avenue transition at 2:03, Haljackey.
Dave, those are great textures you're using!
Alex, my eyes still have not recovered from seeing this thread back in action! And I'm still staring at that last pic ;D
Your friend, Jordan :thumbsup:
Awesome work guys!! Loving it :)
Haljackey, may I ask where you got both the bridges in the video?
Glad to see something new for this project, the results are simply stunning already! Great work!
Hey guys, Jack wilds here...
will wonders never cease as I've given up on of this project ever coming into being... &apls :thumbsup: much less be remotely lining cities networks... :'( BUT now there is reason for hope and rejoicing :sunny: as I may yet get to play with this mod in my sim-cities &bis&
()what() is this 'mod' a tru 'mod'...is this part of the NAM and/or RHW... will it be a part or a stand alone 'mod' ... will there be possibilities for third parties to add the street-scaping such as lights, traffic signals, transport stops etc... also could the single be made into say a one way alley... can textures be modified... %confuso
Anticipating its release in the near future (relatively speaking)... thanks all of you not stopping the project and making something of it... keep up the good work -its well worth it :thumbsup: :)
Jack :satisfied:
looking great! can't wait for the release. Do you guys know if it will be with the upcoming nam or a future one?
Hmm, no three tile networks? That's too bad, I was looking forward to some wider avenues. Shame it didn't work quite right for you guys this time around. (For the delay, I think you guys owe us an 8-lane avenue!) Only kidding, you guys do great work and I understand how long this can take. Oh well, back to waiting and lurking.
Thanks for the kind words, everyone! 'Tis good to be back.
To answer a few recent questions:
Quote from: Jack_wilds on March 09, 2010, 03:12:53 PM
is this 'mod' a tru 'mod'...is this part of the NAM and/or RHW... will it be a part or a stand alone 'mod' ...
The NWM is planned to be released in much the same fashion as projects like the RHW, SAM, etc. have been--fully integrated with the NAM, but downloaded separately.
Quote from: Jack_wilds on March 09, 2010, 03:12:53 PM
will there be possibilities for third parties to add the street-scaping such as lights, traffic signals, transport stops etc... also could the single be made into say a one way alley... can textures be modified...
Third-party "streetscaping" is certainly possible, much as it has been with the RHW and SAM. The same goes for texture mods as well.
Quote from: Toichus Maximus on March 09, 2010, 03:14:24 PM
looking great! can't wait for the release. Do you guys know if it will be with the upcoming nam or a future one?
That really will depend on NAM Core development and how it progresses in relationship to NWM development. It's hard to say. We actually don't necessarily need to synchronize it with a Core release, either, as we have the option of delivering the necessary RUL updates with the Essentials package.
-Alex
Quote from: ShultzCity on March 09, 2010, 01:46:51 PM
Haljackey, may I ask where you got both the bridges in the video?
Actually, I didn't get them anywhere! They are both standard bridges included in the game. The first bridge is the Brooklyn Bridge for road and the other is the default RHW-2 bridge.
great work! &apls
it's nice to see that this project is back online
...
...
...
...
Well, the NWM has grown up from its toddler years into a full blown AWESOME project!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alex
Quote from: danielra96 on March 09, 2010, 04:55:08 PM
great work! &apls
it's nice to see that this project is back online
It was never offline. It just went private becsue too many people were posting "when will it be released" posts.
It's great to see NWM is back. And those pictures are awesome.
Of course, Haljackey's video is awesome too. $%Grinno$%
Might as well sneak another pic out . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg200.imageshack.us%2Fimg200%2F2275%2Fnwm102020092.jpg&hash=7489ed215ad4ef8e8142c59367f737639a36db4f)
-Alex
Awesome Work &apls &apls &apls
This is outstanding! I hope that we're getting closer and closer to the first release of this amazing project! ;D
NWM has seem to come quite a far way from concept to product from when I last saw anything on it.I have been looking forward to this and will continue to look forward to this more then RHW :P. Glade to see the GLR-in-Road development has brought about ideas/pieces for NWM. I just hope you guys can take care of the issue that GLR-in-Road has with firetrucks not being able to access anything. It will be a shame of NWM suffers from the same fate specifically since I will be using NWM like a roadway whore :P
This is really awesome!!! And perhaps it's good that it takes some time for new stuff to be released - 'cause that way there's always something you can look forward to. It's like there's christmas comming soon all over the year ...
Really a great project! I only miss AVE-6 (with medians) in that spectrum of additional roads. =) But that would then be just too perfect, besides multilane OWR's are coming =) which is the most awesomenest thing here =)
Sweet! How will these connect with the Maxis highway, not that any of us use it anymore, but yeah. A special connection puzzle piece? And will these be fully draggable?
Oooh! Looks good! It's the kind of stuff that demands the respect that it deserves. &apls
I love the pics (hate the teasing) and hope for a release soon but completely understand delayed releases (well, it's not delayed if a deadline isn't set) from first hand experience.
Keep up the fantastic work!
Thanks for the feedback, everyone--I'm glad you're enjoying the pics. :)
Thought I'd answer a couple questions:
Quote from: SimNation on March 10, 2010, 12:07:44 PM
I just hope you guys can take care of the issue that GLR-in-Road has with firetrucks not being able to access anything.
I've not tested it yet, but from what I know, the reason the firetruck access is blocked on the GLR-in-Road pieces has to do with the fact that the items are puzzle pieces and feature a stubbed Lightrail checktype. Given that the NWM stuff is generally draggable stuff based on Roads and One-Way Roads, they should inherit the access characteristics of their base networks, so I'm fairly certain it should be problem free. I'll try to get a more conclusive answer, though.
Quote from: KoV Liberty on March 11, 2010, 06:07:27 PM
Sweet! How will these connect with the Maxis highway, not that any of us use it anymore, but yeah. A special connection puzzle piece? And will these be fully draggable?
The only Maxis Highway-related interface/connection planned for the first release of the NWM is Maxis Elevated Highway overpasses.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg6.imageshack.us%2Fimg6%2F434%2Fnwm031220102.jpg&hash=d1d68116bcbcafb2027832b39978f00bade5cc27)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg269.imageshack.us%2Fimg269%2F6880%2Fnwm031220101.jpg&hash=cccccb176b6c49a9dbce9f8c6ae099b41d70c81e)
If you wanted to properly transition from an NWM network to a Maxis Highway or RealHighway with the first release, you'd need to transition from an NWM network to a base network that supports that transition--i.e. an Avenue or an OWR. An RHW transition is more likely to come first, as Maxis transitions can present considerable challenges from the modeling/scaling standpoint.
-Alex
The nam team has really outdone itself this year. They have revamped the RHW and added probably more double the pieces from the last. They also created a extension to road networks. Thanks and keep it up!
Alex amazing work here!!! hmmm I do have to say I think I might have something to babble about in a PC??
I can only echo what others are saying, using words such as awesome, amazing, fantastic, brilliant, etc.
Thank you so very much Alex et. al
Joe
Like the Frankenstein monster, the project comes back to life and unshackles itself from the medical table to become notorious, only in this case it is notorious in the good way.
I'm pleased that the NWM is back, since I had given up all hope of ever seeing a turning lane in my game.
howdie alex, just a ? on the NWM(Network Widening Modd). When we widen our roads or avenues. Will the NWM connect with the single roads,one-ways,avenues and highways? just curious, cause the RHW wont allow me to connect to these.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of (Varrock City,Maxiston and Steven's Point)
Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!!
P.S. for those who play runescape, That's where I got the name of Varrock City from LOL. The little village of Varrock
on Runescape, near the barbarian villiage.
Thanks for the kind words, everyone!
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on March 15, 2010, 05:46:50 AM
howdie alex, just a ? on the NWM(Network Widening Modd). When we widen our roads or avenues. Will the NWM connect with the single roads,one-ways,avenues and highways? just curious, cause the RHW wont allow me to connect to these.
Are you referring to transitions or intersections? There will be plenty of options for both. The reason the RHW doesn't allow certain intersections is because some of those setups would be unrealistic for a freeway. Since the NWM deals with surface networks, that won't be the case so much.
And speaking of the RHW . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.imageshack.us%2Fimg3%2F4899%2Fnwm110120091.jpg&hash=22441b0215b6357b139fd4111646f6d666bb0671)
-Alex
After seen this picture I fallen over my chair - :sunny: Thats really great and I'm sure we all can't wait till it was released! (No - I don't ask when!)!
Great work &apls
I like. ;)
Quote from: Meastro444 on March 16, 2010, 05:41:20 AM
I like. ;)
and I LOVE! :D
P.S. I think that pic should be brought to the new page as well ;D
Quote from: Tarkus on March 15, 2010, 10:35:01 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.imageshack.us%2Fimg3%2F4899%2Fnwm110120091.jpg&hash=22441b0215b6357b139fd4111646f6d666bb0671)
Great Job !!!!!!! &apls &apls &apls
Awesome job on the NWM Alex you and the crew!! keep up the great work. what i meant about the new avenues you are creating, would they work with the roads in streets? Merging into roads or streets that is? That is the 6 lanes and more? like they do in some real avenues.
I love those multilane one-ways. All thumbs up! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
That looks so awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
I'm drooling on my keyboard... &apls
Wow. I'll probably have that picture in my head for at least a week now. ;D Good work!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOWW!!!! This is soooooooooooooo kickass...
Great stuff as per usual, Tarkus. If we're not getting three-tile networks soon, the wider OWRs will likely give me the capacity I need for now.
Question: will the wider OWRs form neighbor connections?
Quote from: itsacoaster on March 18, 2010, 11:40:22 AM
Question: will the wider OWRs form neighbor connections?
That's a good question. The base OWR network, as you know, cannot make neighbor connections. Beyond the fact that it's a hard-coded issue, the game likes to see cars entering and exiting from the same tile on single-tile networks, so even if you could physically make the connection, you'd get the "Freight Only" situation that occurs with the RHW that is currently only corrected with a workaround of some sort.
That being said, I ended up coming up with a solution for the RHW "Freight Only" situation involving some trick puzzle pieces with special pathing, which will be incorporated into Version 4.0. Provided that you are building one-way-couplets (two one-ways in opposite directions), it should be possible to adapt the RHW neighbor connection pieces to the One-Way Road network without much difficulty. This would effectively make it possible to build connections with the game's default OWR-2 network as well. The one thing to keep in mind, however, is that you'd need a 1-tile easement at the edge of your city between the two roadways of the OWR couplet, where you're placing the OWR neighbor connection.
-Alex
Speaking of the 5-lane OWR and the RHW, will the new 3-OWR and 5-OWR be able to form connections with RHW-6 and RHW-10? Mainly to create 90-degree turns.
Quote from: Monorail Master on March 19, 2010, 03:55:38 PM
Speaking of the 5-lane OWR and the RHW, will the new 3-OWR and 5-OWR be able to form connections with RHW-6 and RHW-10? Mainly to create 90-degree turns.
For NWM Release 1, no. The OWR-5 is also strictly orthogonal at the moment (all the 2 tile networks will be for Release 1) so it wouldn't be of any use as far as making RHW-10 diagonals/curves.
-Alex
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question but, will there be any street running railroads in the next NAM or NWM? Because their are many cities and towns in the world (including mine) that have heavy duty railroads in the middle of streets, roads, avenues(also TLA),and Highway's if you are a fan of trains you know what im talking about. Ive found these picture's (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.railpictures.net%2Fimages%2Fd1%2F4%2F1%2F1%2F2411.1245466944.tb.jpg&hash=eb6755fb6ca5e1c9846badfdf2889d48ba7f667e) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz124%2Fmightygoose_2007%2Fromenn2.jpg&hash=5b10c00fbe0951a7e7d4f77b2bbb1ef14a6df7d9)
Here are two more pics... (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz124%2Fmightygoose_2007%2Fhiru1.jpg&hash=9e4147de109d98f1eed0f42e9bf5cfa932b2867e) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.railpictures.net%2Fimages%2Fd1%2F7%2F8%2F6%2F8786.1260857969.tb.jpg&hash=3b3817e2b90115970325bda33782f206a6bef0a7) %confuso
TJ1, the idea has been explored to some degree but won't be in any form for release.
Dang, that looks really cool in RL though.
I don't really find i nice or anything, Trams with low carriages are fine, but trains? hm.. Thats also very dangerous i suppose.
Quote from: strucka on March 21, 2010, 06:13:39 AM
I don't really find i nice or anything, Trams with low carriages are fine, but trains? hm.. Thats also very dangerous i suppose.
I have seen a few rr crossings around that cross a road like that before... but it's a little crazy when a train is coming through ;)
There are cargo trams travelling around Dresden, Germany. Since we don't have such in Sim City, it would be a nice idea to create a kind of Freight-Train-in-Road/Avenue plugin. :D
Quote from: Tarkus on March 15, 2010, 10:35:01 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.imageshack.us%2Fimg3%2F4899%2Fnwm110120091.jpg&hash=22441b0215b6357b139fd4111646f6d666bb0671)
Nice :).
You see that setup even here in Chicago in some old warehouse districts, and I know downtown Oakland, CA has the same thing, as well as a passenger train in Michigan City, Indiana-- though that's being removed, I think.
In a
Haljackey's video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr9AKY5Rs1E&feature=player_embedded#) i notice road with green median. It's the AVE-2, right? This is, as we say in Greece, butter to my bread (âïýôõñï óôï øùìß ìïõ) :thumbsup:
Take your time my friends, you really know how to make great stuff :) &apls :) &apls :) &apls
Quote from: TJ1 on March 19, 2010, 04:59:45 PM(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz124%2Fmightygoose_2007%2Fromenn2.jpg&hash=5b10c00fbe0951a7e7d4f77b2bbb1ef14a6df7d9)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi193.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz124%2Fmightygoose_2007%2Fhiru1.jpg&hash=9e4147de109d98f1eed0f42e9bf5cfa932b2867e)
Great! Can we have them? ;D
That type of railway is not for the NWM. The NWM will not be using this concept of trains or trams right now. Not that it will, but the NWM is more of a dragged network, so you do not have to be constantly plopping puzzle pieces.
Previously, in other places of the forums, we have discussed the past existence of heavy rail roads that were in the middle of US roads before and shown video proof of it. However, what was big in the 20th Century is not so favorable in this century, as such there hardly are very, very limited heavy rail roads in US roads. You know having a giant, speedy train in the middle of the road is dangerous when sharing with car traffic, let alone crossing regular rail roads.
I can confirm the only way you can get heavy trains into avenues or in/on road is the Tram puzzle pieces currently with the NAM so the heavy train has to use Tram/GLR pieces, but will not use it for traffic simulation. How? You have to connect heavy rail to light rail using puzzle pieces that the train then rides on the tram ways. That will need demonstration in a different place, some other time, later.
Those "pieces" are also, if I'm not mistaken, just Photoshop jobs from 5-6 years ago that were originally posted in one of the old NAM threads at ST. Neither ever actually existed to the best of my knowledge.
Quote from: Terring7 on March 21, 2010, 11:30:22 AM
In a Haljackey's video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr9AKY5Rs1E&feature=player_embedded#) i notice road with green median. It's the AVE-2, right? This is, as we say in Greece, butter to my bread (âïýôõñï óôï øùìß ìïõ) :thumbsup:
Yes, that is indeed an AVE-2. :)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on March 21, 2010, 09:37:34 PM
Those "pieces" are also, if I'm not mistaken, just Photoshop jobs from 5-6 years ago that were originally posted in one of the old NAM threads at ST. Neither ever actually existed to the best of my knowledge.
Yes, that is indeed an AVE-2. :)
-Alex
entirely correct and as far as i am aware they were initial ideas that led to the GLR's existence anyway....
And, the GLR is already pathed to carry heavy trains too. Thus a setup like this works perfectly well to simulate street running:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F2221%2Fayershilldec90412692282.png&hash=1bf042e3c648db7957839d41139b68e5a819a32b)
DTP, are you sure that works? From my experience, adding paths to a network is -not- sufficient to make it work for that traffic type. For example, the above network in your pic is GLR/Road, so the simulator sees it as both el-rail and road. Since the speed of heavy trains is 0 on both networks, I don't think you'll get any traffic through. It will work for UDI, but that's it.
now, there *IS* a way around it, but that would require changing all the GLR pieces...
El train speed is 0 on roads, too. Just a change of the networks from el train/road to normal rail/road would be needed.
Quote from: daeley on March 23, 2010, 01:25:02 AM
DTP, are you sure that works? From my experience, adding paths to a network is -not- sufficient to make it work for that traffic type. For example, the above network in your pic is GLR/Road, so the simulator sees it as both el-rail and road. Since the speed of heavy trains is 0 on both networks, I don't think you'll get any traffic through. It will work for UDI, but that's it.
now, there *IS* a way around it, but that would require changing all the GLR pieces...
No, I'm not sure it works for carrying actual traffic. I've only ever tested it with UDI. You're probably right.
Would this be narrow MAVE-4 or NMAVE-4? narrow MAVE's they exist. ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi267.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii281%2Fhaljackey%2Farterial01tb1.jpg&hash=80901c0833f3a6186e90343e47e10a68bee655ba)
Quote from: TJ1 on March 24, 2010, 04:36:34 PM
Would this be narrow MAVE-4 or NMAVE-4? narrow MAVE's they exist. ;D
There is indeed going to be a single-tile NMAVE-4 at some point. However, it will not be part of Release 1.
-Alex
So how will this work? Will you have a starter piece like the one on the last picture of ''NMAVE-4'' and then you will drag out of that or something entirely different?
Some time ago there was a debate of HOV lane's. Lanes that are inside a system, for instance a road with NMAVE-4 like lanes, but instead of outer two you'd have HOV lanes with yellow lines separating them from the others. Can this be implemented with this new system? Oh and not to forget with the multiple lane OWR's will we be getting any new wider and bigger Roundabouts? That sure would be nice, because the current 2 lane rbt is usable to some degree, but in one case i had a 20000 cars/16000buses going thru one small rbt and it looked silly.
I apologize if that im off topic :-[ but I finaly found out how to do railroad street running(the 2nd pic is mine). Plus this would be great for TLA-5 Railroad crossing ;). And by the way does anybody know where I can find these railroad crossings?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg100.imageshack.us%2Fimg100%2F5233%2Ftlarailroadcrossing.png&hash=76de4b332484b7b8785c53ba99b65fc746fad7ee)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg687.imageshack.us%2Fimg687%2F5097%2Fbigcitytutorialjun31612.png&hash=af844a457e69441ef57a9fc98338c42b5a407bf5)
I'd love to get that street-running mod from you~~! Please, disclose your secret! &apls
Quote from: strucka on March 25, 2010, 02:10:34 AM
So how will this work? Will you have a starter piece like the one on the last picture of ''NMAVE-4'' and then you will drag out of that or something entirely different?
That's basically it--all the NWM networks will work along similar lines.
Quote from: strucka on March 25, 2010, 02:10:34 AM
Some time ago there was a debate of HOV lane's. Lanes that are inside a system, for instance a road with NMAVE-4 like lanes, but instead of outer two you'd have HOV lanes with yellow lines separating them from the others. Can this be implemented with this new system?
No, HOV lanes will not be implemented as part of the NWM. There's no way to make them functional, and they're also extremely uncommon on surface networks.
Quote from: strucka on March 25, 2010, 02:10:34 AM
Oh and not to forget with the multiple lane OWR's will we be getting any new wider and bigger Roundabouts? That sure would be nice, because the current 2 lane rbt is usable to some degree, but in one case i had a 20000 cars/16000buses going thru one small rbt and it looked silly.
The possibility of more roundabout options has been under consideration for awhile. However, the implementation details would still need to be worked out, and with as many projects as there are going on right now, it'll probably be awhile before we get back to that.
Quote from: TJ1 on March 25, 2010, 07:47:07 AM
Plus this would be great for TLA-5 Railroad crossing ;). And by the way does anybody know where I can find these railroad crossings?
To the best of my knowledge, nowhere. The first one is a 4-year-old pic--the file was never released and to the best of my knowledge, the author no longer has the file. The second I've never seen before.
Railroad crossing gates are also a low priority at this stage in development, and we're handling them much the same as we're dealing with traffic signals and streetlights, as described in
NWM FAQ Item #12 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.1180#post_Q12).
-Alex
Never, saw this before, but I know this is the old wig wag RxR replacement.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg100.imageshack.us%2Fimg100%2F5233%2Ftlarailroadcrossing.png&hash=76de4b332484b7b8785c53ba99b65fc746fad7ee)
Those rail road lights on that early TLA-5/RHW textured network almost are the ones from that replacement mod, the only difference is the final scaling of it, and that this early version lacks the crossing gate. I know, because I have the mod that replaces the avenue wig wag crossing lights for this very style. I just can not for the life of it remember where.
If you could dig that out, j-dub, that'd be awesome. I've always wanted the overhead lights for my avenues.
I've got one too, but strangely, mine only does it on diagonal/ortho crossings, and uses a static prop that doesn't look as nice as the one in that pic...
Once again I still aplogize that im off topic :'(.I love and cant wait for the NWM:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :
Quote from: Tarkus on March 25, 2010, 04:03:02 PM
The second I've never seen before.
-Alex
Thats because the second one is mine I figured it out by my self, its true. And its very easy to do, ()stsfd()
its similar to what deathtopumkins showed before. All you have to do is grab any NAM rail piece(not FARR or STR) plop it where ever and then drag rail one tile out from the one side stub that you'll will use the glr in road, avenue etc.. then drag road over the tile next to the rail puzzle piece then buldoze the ral stub next to the rail road crossing then you wil have no rail sub on that side of the puzzle piece then you can drag or plop any glr puzzle piece to the end of the rail puzzle piece that haze no stub then you got it you then should have some thing like this.You can see where they connect and I would love railroad crossings for this :D.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg13.imageshack.us%2Fimg13%2F8955%2Fbigcitytutorialmar81612.png&hash=f3236069827e1e63b1fbabc42027e374c4f7d28e)
or this,
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg716.imageshack.us%2Fimg716%2F8131%2Fbigcitytutorialdec12151.png&hash=2205f027c567d19024aefdea008e2179a7e702f5)
Let's get back on topic now . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F2581%2Fnwm102120092.jpg&hash=8a9827f048f5f8120f99b903ec15febd18e6104e)
-Alex
Im glad to be back on topic (and not on trains),go NWM! ;D :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ;D :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Tarkus im drolling over that last picture :D
Look at my picture of what NMAVE-4 would look like. A mod I found on simtropolis and I never used it until now.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg710.imageshack.us%2Fimg710%2F2060%2Fbigcitytutorialnov41512.png&hash=4ec9b06ed57e3040b468d01501620eae8f041460)
this is the basic n-mave-4 in all it's glory...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Fnmave4a.jpg&hash=1a9d7c25e9c1168ae016d234f0422ec40cee6901)
-Dave
that last pic, almoust made my jaw drop :o
Come on, Superhands. Stop making us drool on out keyboards and RELEASE IT NOW!!! :D
I cant wait for the real one,im so excited. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: &apls &apls
I think only Tarkus has the release authority. The NMAVE does not have draggable intersections yet, and diagonals still yet to be pathed. Before the NMAVE, you can still use the TRAM in Road for a single tile avenue.
I forgot tram in road puzzle piece ::)
And will the new OWR networks be able to transition to RHW and MIS?
I assuming that traffic lights are out of the question because of how many networks the team is working on.....
Quote from: j-dub on March 26, 2010, 09:10:29 AM
I think only Tarkus has the release authority.
Technically, it ends up being a NAM Team decision in the end, and is based on a variety of factors. The most critical thing is whether or not things check out in testing. Additionally, if there are multiple plugins at similar points in development going on simultaneously, generally, their release has ended up synchronized to minimize the number of public RUL controller updates needed.
As mentioned before, the NMAVE-4 is currently without intersections, so at this point, it wouldn't really make sense to release it . . . and besides, we've already got 10 other networks coming out for the first release. ;)
Quote from: TJ1 on March 26, 2010, 10:56:35 AM
And will the new OWR networks be able to transition to RHW and MIS?
Likely only the OWR-1 at this point.
Quote from: Fresh Prince of SC4D on March 26, 2010, 11:07:20 AM
I assuming that traffic lights are out of the question because of how many networks the team is working on.....
The situation with traffic lights is described in
FAQ Item #12 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.1180#post_Q12). It's a low priority at this point, and I'd imagine there would be a considerable amount of disagreement as to which intersections should/shouldn't be signalized. It'll likely depend on how the rest of development goes and if there's time/energy to spend on all those T21s before the first release.
-Alex
Quote from: shanghai kid on March 26, 2010, 03:19:05 AM
that last pic, almoust made my jaw drop :o
only almost :o :o
I'm drolling all over my keyboard because of the last picture that i saw :o
Now that's worth staring at forever and ever...
-Jordan :thumbsup:
Darn you bastards! I have to buy a new key board now, it got drooled and broke. =) Just kidding, but it isn't far from that with all the new pics. It really seem to be very close to release this NWM. =)
QuoteThe situation with traffic lights is described in FAQ Item #12.
&ops My Bad, Tarkus! Okay, I am rereading the front top page again. Anyways, the work looks great as always.
Nice picture superhands, This will be a useful mod when it comes out. It solve our traffic problems!
Good work so far! &apls
Nice picture.
Good to see all this NWM progress activity gives hope for release in the close future compared to 2 years ago when it was mainly just a whisper in the air. Question about NWM in general though..will it allow networks run across it like streets,owr,rhw,rail,el rail, and glr?
You know I wouldnt be suprised (sarcasim) ;D if The NWM,RHW 4.0,Tuleps,or the next Nam releases April. ::)
I'd venture to say that the probability of an April 1 release has been cut in half by your post ::).
Quote from: SimNation on March 28, 2010, 08:08:07 AM
Question about NWM in general though..will it allow networks run across it like streets,owr,rhw,rail,el rail, and glr?
Yes, it'll be possible to have orthogonal intersections with all those networks.
Here's a peek at the MAVE-4 intersections with Street and Rail:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg248.imageshack.us%2Fimg248%2F8707%2Fnwm033020101.jpg&hash=04c3b0865d14b4c72be4b70f1e1fa14ada6e40d6)
Quote from: TJ1 on March 30, 2010, 05:09:41 AM
You know I wouldnt be suprised (sarcasim) ;D if The NWM,RHW 4.0,Tuleps,or the next Nam releases April. ::)
Even if you were right, I'd never say. $%Grinno$% If for no other reason than the fact that I don't even know myself. ;) We like to surprise people--even ourselves.
-Alex
That is just so cool.
I'm staring at it...still staring....
-Jordan :thumbsup:
Amazing work, you guys. Can't wait for it, but I will. :D
Ethan
This really is going to be awesome! I am really excited to re-do a downtown area with 4 & 5-lane one-way streets. Here in Minneapolis almost all the downtown streets are 4/5 lane one-ways, so with the tools we already have it's been difficult to replicate the same kind of "feel" in my SC downtowns as I experience in real life. The pics shown so far are just amazing! Can't wait!
I must agree with you, I'm totally redoing my Manhattan style downtown (with a lot of Manhattan building's) after this is realesed. Same goes for the main avenues of my city (which is European actually).
I do agree with strucka! I'll demolish some of my existing avenues in order to put that beautiful MAVE when it's released! It'll add so much variety!
Brilliant pics! They look so realistic...
I've just started a region and in the process of working out my main roads etc but in essence, I don't want to start it yet cause there's so many new mods being created! The day/s MAVE and the new RHW comes out will be the best pressie ever. You guys are doing such a great job!
Nice work! I think I got a solution to the streetlights, whatever Maxis put streetlights on, put streetlights on those intersecions. :) A little thought...
Alex
Lovely look on the transit running through the NWM tarkus. Glade to see how functional it will be.
This is not a request but is it possible to have NarrowTLA-5? Here in Beaumont we have them all over.
Realisticly, no. The TLA-5 is the same width (2 tiles) as the maxis avenue because it has the same width lanes. If you were to squeeze those same lanes into one tile, the 4 of a maxis avenue fit okay (see nMAVE), but only barely on a tile. There is simply not enough room to fit a fifth unless you narrow the lanes, which are already just wide enough for automata.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg62.imageshack.us%2Fimg62%2F884%2Fwidetla.jpg&hash=0cb352cdea5a927863faebc13f492a3e46df9d77)
Hello everybody
I have a some suggestions to the creators of NWM.
I think it will be great to make some avenue with 3 or 4 lanes with grase and street lights in the midle of this avenue. Also will be nice to have one more avenue with 3 or more lanes and the last one to be a BUS lane. For a cross avenue I suggest to make 1 line for left 1 for right and 2 or more for straight. And my be the last offer is for 5 lines avenue is when is crossing with same like this one to have
1 lane just for left
1 lane for left and straight
1 lane only for straight
1 for straight and right
1 only for right
If this is not to complicated and its possible to create you cen used in the crossing of one way streets with more of 3 lanes.
Thats all now for me I hope that I'll be useful with my ideas.
Your first idea has already been incorporated into the NWM (AVE-6).
Your other ideas, however, sound more along hte lines of TuLEPs [link] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8460.0).
It's look nice but I don't understand what you think for avenue with bus lane
Quote from: ivo_su on April 13, 2010, 12:01:11 PM
It's look nice but I don't andurstent whot you think for avenue with bus lane
Dedicated bus lanes are not possible in SC4. Even if they were possible, they would be outside the scope of the NWM project.
-Alex
Thank's for answer
Well, I have a rather interesting development to report here . . .
Originally, we stated that the NAM's Road Turning Lane (RTL) Plugin would not be compatible with the NWM, due to significant difficulties involving re-overriding the RTL's changes to the Road network with NWM coding, which both jplumbley and I thought was virtually impossible to overcome back in 2008 after numerous failed experiments.
However, as the result of some experiments I undertook yesterday which went much better than expected, that has changed. The NWM will be fully-compatible with the NAM RTL upon release. :thumbsup:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg72.imageshack.us%2Fimg72%2F7913%2Fnwmrtl041620105.jpg&hash=e98eda988f8301d8b3b98e3c55d39557f097faab)
-Alex
Fantastic development Tarkus! Thank you for your hard work on this project. I can't wait to play with the results someday soon.
Whoo! That's great news! Though I would still prefer to use TuLEPS
It's great to hear of more progress.
I'm ecstatic that you've solved this problem Alex! Great work!
I'm just wondering, are there bridges for this? Or do we have to convert these new networks back to either RHW or standard roads and stuff to cross water?
unfortunately, no bridges at this time.... &mmm
im still trying to find time to finish some models i started 2 years ago...but alas, RL is starting to get worse as the summer draws near.
Quote from: choco on April 18, 2010, 12:46:36 PM
unfortunately, no bridges at this time.... &mmm
im still trying to find time to finish some models i started 2 years ago...but alas, RL is starting to get worse as the summer draws near.
I got it. I remember seeing a picture you posted on your bridge thread about a RHW-10 bridge. I'm just wondering if that can be converted into a 5-lane OWR bridge.
i dont see why not....principle is the same, just different textures. ;)
Quote from: choco on April 20, 2010, 06:33:14 AM
i dont see why not....principle is the same, just different textures. ;)
...........and different road speeds :)
what about ground highway or avenue for MAVE-6. Is it too big?
Wow, i love how this is going! I just got this game and just made this account just for this topic and im loving every update! :) . Man, but one thing... It would be a very cool idea to maybe even have things like paint on the road saying PED-XING before a crosswalk or intersection, even before a school, or SIGNAL AHEAD painted in, it would eliminate the use of some signs &apls . But great fob! ::)
Ive been playing SC4 almost every day since July of last year. I got SC4 for my 9th birthday because I loved to build things ()stsfd(). But I never got to play it until I was 15. I was devastated for years :'( because my computer hated it. I'm Glad I wont mis out on the NWM. Welcome to SC4D Natalie :).
GLRage with ARD-3age . . . was a bit tricky to get stabilized properly.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg685.imageshack.us%2Fimg685%2F3788%2Fnwm042520101.jpg&hash=0193ef1ab2ac0f79f6285dd8b926eecb07170a54)
-Alex
It looks awesome! Crossing gates too! Lots to look forward to! :thumbsup:
It's great &apls &apls very good work Alex !
Alex, nice work. I was about to ask about those crossings.
Very nice work, Alex. The crossings look amazing. :)
Ethan
Awesome job guys =) &apls &apls &apls &apls
Keep up the good work! ;) Great job everyone &apls The NWM is definitely more realistic than the MAXIS roads and highways. I love that. Can't wait for the first release! :D
This project looks amazing. I can't wait to try it out! Keep up the good work.
Teaser time:
Mave-6 x Mave-6 X intersection:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Ftrafficlights-1.jpg&hash=49c6aaa742dde6a0b5269b1689c4c9e40c17371b)
an early development shot in reader of how the road-NWM 1tile transition preview models would pan out:
\\ stubs are included in the preview models//
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Fpreviewmodel3-1.jpg&hash=b407459dfdfbaf891a92e3a95fc10d0c2f56f4ee)
-Dave
That is so cool! ;D Great Job! &apls &apls I see that there are traffic signals in your Mave-6 x Mave-6 intersections. Awesome! :) Can't wait to see more!
As much as I want LHD... I think the NWM might be more enjoyable in RHD.
Great to see more progress :thumbsup:!
We mustn't be too far off release (That is not a question. It's an observtion. Just want to make that clear.)
Awesome! The stubs look great!
-Jordan :thumbsup:
That look great in towns/cities. Great work. &apls
Dave, tour picture is very beautiful ! Great job &apls :thumbsup:
Outstanding job your doing on the NWM guys!!! I'm really looking forward to it's first release whenever that is LOL. Keep Up the great work and keep those updates coming!!
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on April 30, 2010, 03:18:19 PM
Outstanding job your doing on the NWM guys!!! I'm really looking forward to it's first release whenever that is LOL. Keep Up the great work and keep those updates coming!!
I second the sentiment... $%Grinno$% ::)
Jack :satisfied:
Quote from: superhands on April 27, 2010, 06:29:55 PM
Teaser time:
Mave-6 x Mave-6 X intersection:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Ftrafficlights-1.jpg&hash=49c6aaa742dde6a0b5269b1689c4c9e40c17371b)
-Dave
I like this very much; really promising, should transform many a sim-city downtown - another 'well-done' for all working on this... &apls :thumbsup:
Jack :satisfied:
Great job on this! Cant wait!
This will be amazing when in comes - the possibilities are endless (nearly). Great work! &apls
Nice Jawb thus far. Always a treat to see some of the progress made. You might kill off some RHW use for some people with all these urban networks if you not careful :D
My eyes are melting , stop the torcher.... $%Grinno$%
Quote from: superhands on April 27, 2010, 06:29:55 PM
Teaser time:
Mave-6 x Mave-6 X intersection:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Ftrafficlights-1.jpg&hash=49c6aaa742dde6a0b5269b1689c4c9e40c17371b)
-Dave
Couldn't help but notice that the lights are green in both directions... yikes! :o
All the new screen shots look awesome. It's so great to see this project on a roll again. This will be the bestest network update of all time, and that includes the RHW, IMHO. I'm more excited to play than I was seven years ago. Congrats to the whole team on doing such an incredible job, and thanks so much for all your hard work!!! :thumbsup:
Thanks for all the kind words and support, everyone!
Quote from: SamJam on May 03, 2010, 12:15:17 AM
Couldn't help but notice that the lights are green in both directions... yikes! Shocked
Great to see you around,
SamJam! :) Fortunately, the green issue has been fixed now. That particular intersection hadn't gotten stop points yet when the pic was taken . . . it does now, however, so it'll work properly upon release.
-Alex
Nice to see how well this project is coming along, Tarkus . Fixing bugs early to ensure minimal problems upon release. :thumbsup: Nice work. &apls
I'd also like to thank everyone who is who is working on and supporting the NWM project. It's what you do that keeps SimCity 4 alive today! ;D :) ;) &apls :thumbsup: &hlp :sunny:
:)
Quote from: Tarkus on May 03, 2010, 03:51:33 PM
Thanks for all the kind words and support, everyone!
Great to see you around, SamJam! :) Fortunately, the green issue has been fixed now. That particular intersection hadn't gotten stop points yet when the pic was taken . . . it does now, however, so it'll work properly upon release.
-Alex
It was more of a sarcastic comment, really ::) ...from what I'd read I was under the impression that traffic signals wouldn't be implemented for this release so it's just one more really positive aspect that I'm taking from this. It's good to check in again now that I have a lighter work schedule and the NWM is looking unbelievable. When I played before I wasn't overly concerned about how to build because the project seemed so distant, and then came the hiatus... but for the first time since I purchased the game I'm hesitant about how to build when I'm constantly drooling over what's to come. I'm starting to plan ahead more, which is something I told myself I would never do (I enjoy playing on the fly and having to work around my own network-created limitations) but you guys are totally turning the game on its ear! ;D
WOW!!!progress is going very well here with the NWM! I can't wait for release, and I would also like to second what Nego, said you guys are doing a great job in making SC4 such a great game for these many years!!! &apls
One question though, the chart in the sticky at the top of the page says that the MAVE-4 will be dual tile, however, in all of the pictures that I have seen it appears to only cover 1 tile. Is it going to be a dual tile like all other avenues or will it just be 1 tile, like roads?
Fingers are crossed that it is 1 tile, I'd love to clear up my congested roads without having to bulldoze my Sims home and buissneses :D
I got the impression that eventually there will be N-MAVE4 which will be 1 tile, but not sure if this is going to be the same thing.
Quote from: SamJam on May 06, 2010, 09:37:19 AM
I'm starting to plan ahead more, which is something I told myself I would never do (I enjoy playing on the fly and having to work around my own network-created limitations)
You're not alone on that--I've found myself doing the same thing ever since I started modding, actually. :D
Quote from: SamJam on May 06, 2010, 09:37:19 AM
but you guys are totally turning the game on its ear! ;D
Just doing our job. :satisfied: Thanks for the kind words!
Quote from: MattyFo on May 06, 2010, 09:51:49 AM
One question though, the chart in the sticky at the top of the page says that the MAVE-4 will be dual tile, however, in all of the pictures that I have seen it appears to only cover 1 tile. Is it going to be a dual tile like all other avenues or will it just be 1 tile, like roads?
Fingers are crossed that it is 1 tile, I'd love to clear up my congested roads without having to bulldoze my Sims home and buissneses :D
The MAVE-4 is a dual-tile network, though it probably hasn't seemed that apparent since most of the pics of it thus far have had the grid turned off. This overview pic showing all 10 networks in the first release will perhaps illustrate it a little better:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg682.imageshack.us%2Fimg682%2F2046%2Fnwm050620101.jpg&hash=224f9dfb476a7b0bf6abcc352ce0e54ecf1953ef)
However, as
strucka mentioned, there is also a single-tile NMAVE-4 planned. It won't be in the first release, however.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 06, 2010, 11:07:33 AMJust doing our job. :satisfied:
And what a job! :) &apls :thumbsup: (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aparadektoi.gr%2Fsmforum%2FSmileys%2Fdefault%2F77.gif&hash=ad02e8a318180e164ac7281a4f280b9714f96154)
Those new roads looks like chocolate for me... and i love chocolate ;D
Quote from: Tarkus on May 06, 2010, 11:07:33 AM
However, as strucka mentioned, there is also a single-tile NMAVE-4 planned. It won't be in the first release, however.
ARG! thats too bad, but it seems as though the 3 lane roads may do the trick, as most traffic in my city seems to go in only one direction(all leading out of town :D)....will the 2 laned side be interchangable? For example to have the westbound lane as two lanes on one road, but on another road have eastbound as the 2 lanes.......hope that makes sense? :P
Quote from: MattyFo on May 06, 2010, 12:44:32 PM
will the 2 laned side be interchangable? For example to have the westbound lane as two lanes on one road, but on another road have eastbound as the 2 lanes.......hope that makes sense? :P
Yes, absolutely--just rotate the starter piece until you get the configuration you want. All the intersections and puzzle pieces (curves and transitions) for the ARD-3 are designed to work for both configurations. It's basically set up kinda similar to the RHW-4 in that regard.
-Alex
This is great man! :thumbsup:
One question though. How are these going to work. Like the SAM im guessing? Also will there be diagnols? Ihavnt seen any pics of diads yet which is why im asking.
,marsh
Quote from: marsh on May 06, 2010, 03:41:08 PM
One question though. How are these going to work. Like the SAM im guessing?
Yes, it's just like the SAM, RHW, Draggable GLR and HSR.
Quote from: marsh on May 06, 2010, 03:41:08 PM
Also will there be diagnols? Ihavnt seen any pics of diads yet which is why im asking.
Yes, all the single-tile networks will have some diagonal functionality--you'll be able to curve them around without issue, though diagonal intersections do not exist yet (they're planned for a future release). There's a few pics of the diagonals in the initial
reopening post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg313963#msg313963) from back in March.
-Alex
Can't wait for this release. I've got plans for OWR-5 in my major cities.......
Quote from: MattyFo on May 06, 2010, 12:44:32 PM
ARG! thats too bad, but it seems as though the 3 lane roads may do the trick, as most traffic in my city seems to go in only one direction(all leading out of town :D)....will the 2 laned side be interchangable? For example to have the westbound lane as two lanes on one road, but on another road have eastbound as the 2 lanes.......hope that makes sense? :P
I see what you mean exspecially if those cities have industrial areas with freight trucks.
Quote from: Fresh Prince of SC4D on May 06, 2010, 09:45:27 PM
Can't wait for this release. I've got plans for OWR-5 in my major cities.......
I only have one huge city in my current region (also in the MD), but that one has a big downtown CBD area =) and it really needs the OWR's
&apls I'm still keeping an eye on this. I don't want to miss it when that moment comes. ;D
Anyways, I really like the 2+1 road. From what I have heard, these are common in Scandinavia where they used them to provide an alternative to passing in the lane for oncoming traffic. The extra lane would alternate back and forth every few miles. It would really make a cool rural road across some plains or something. Keep up the good work!
Quote from: Kevin1a on May 08, 2010, 03:59:07 PM
&apls I'm still keeping an eye on this. I don't want to miss it when that moment comes. ;D
Anyways, I really like the 2+1 road. From what I have heard, these are common in Scandinavia where they used them to provide an alternative to passing in the lane for oncoming traffic. The extra lane would alternate back and forth every few miles. It would really make a cool rural road across some plains or something. Keep up the good work!
Yeah + when the road goes up a hill the extra lane is for slow driving vehicles and trucks so the traffic can drive by the slow going traffic and keep the speed, without having to drive over in the opposite traffic lane to pass them.(if you understand what i mean).
Well, I think this type of roads is common in whole Europe ;)
Well, I don't see 2+1 roads in the Netherlands. In fact, the only NWM network I see here is the AVE-2, which is widely used in suburbs. I've never seen TLA's in Europe.
Maarten, you forgot the N50 between Kampen and Zwolle. Though that one could probably be better described as a RHW3...
Regards,
Korot
Isn't the N50 a regular road, one way in each direction most of it regular 2-lane dutch highway with the special green line in the middle. I would love to have the dutch green lined RHW mod. But i am affraid nique never finished it. It looked cool though:
Quote from: Nique on January 28, 2009, 06:40:41 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy199%2FNe0que%2Fsimcity%25204%2F2009-01-29_033950.jpg&hash=218811eb76abcd859b57f39c54725a722f6099df)
Edit: I looked it up but in the Netherlands there are no 3 lane roads. All the roads have a even number of lanes.
The only place i know has a tree lane road is the doklaan in Rotterdam:
http://www.google.nl/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=nl&geocode=&q=rotterdam&sll=53.059271,6.953659&sspn=0.044981,0.132093&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Rotterdam,+Zuid-Holland&ll=51.894391,4.471712&spn=0.001437,0.004128&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.894481,4.47149&panoid=PhON4pVimgEWsAD1EIfl6Q&cbp=12,319.7,,0,26.7
It doesn't have that green line anywhere. Between Emmeloord and Rampspol it is a RHW-2 with a concrete barrier separating the lanes. Between Rampspol and Kampen it is a two lane road with no physical lane separating, just a white, broken line separating the lanes. After Kampen-Zuid (could be Kampen-Noord, not sure) it becomes a 2+1, with the side having 2 lanes alternating every 1,5 km. It stays in this configuration until Intersection Hattermerbroek, where it turns into the A50, which is a normal RHW-4 at that point.
Regards,
Korot
I haven't been there a while, so you could be right.
i've installed the network widening mod and it's in the game but when i plop the starter peaces nothing is shown. like i haven't placed it and the point is its not working for me and i don't know if it has do deal with the nam may release. please help
You need to install the new NAM May 2010 version as well, otherwise, it won't work properly. Also, remove any previous NAM versions, as described in detail in the included readme files.
Well, it's official. After 3 1/2 years of development, the Network Widening Mod is now available to the public. I want to pass along my most sincere thanks to Dave (superhands), who has been an absolutely invaluable part of this effort. After the grueling development process on RHW Version 3.0, I was wondering if I'd really be able to continue with this project, and Dave lending his "superhands" to the project (bad pun attempt, I realize :D) really made all the difference. Three rounds of applause for him. &apls &apls &apls
There's a few others who were invaluable along the way during the development process that I'd like to thank: Andreas, besku3epnm, Blue Lightning, jplumbley, memo, mott, qurlix, Ryan B., Shadow Assassin and z, and all the NAM Associates who helped give it a thorough shakedown before release.
A quick reminder to everyone: make sure you've deleted any previous NAM files and have installed the May 2010 NAM (Windows (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=851) or MacOS (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2377)) before you install the NWM. Otherwise, you'll be getting the infamous "red arrow" bug.
Hope you all enjoy the mod, and thank you for your patience over the years! Here's the links:
NWM Windows (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2377)
NWM MacOS (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2378)
I'll be updating the "sticky post" momentarily as well.
-Alex
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1006.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf184%2Fdoodofnerdlyness%2FTULEPs.jpg&hash=ae4231875a2755fe93dc561f8810e420264e2dba)
Congratulations! I am going to be up the next three days straight playing with this, and during finals week too :'(
Everything looks beyond amazing and I literally peed my pants with excitement when I saw that it was released.
I'm going to switch back from euro textures to the ugly American ones for the time being, but I can't wait to see a Euroset (definitely no rush though, you have done enough)
When i plop the starter pieces, it just turns up blank. I do have the Euro textures mod instaled
One could scarcely conceive of the enormous exhilaration, joy, and gratitude that I feel on this day, with RHW 4.0 being released, a new NAM being released, and the long-awaited Network Widening Mod.
Thank you very much for your wonderful work over the past 4 years. Without it, my cities would be unrecognizable, and with these tremendous new tools you have provided me, they will go through a similar transformation over the Spring and Summer of 2010.
These textures would just be Pngs :P if it wasn't for Alex's (Tarkus) hard work RUL'ing, and Path'ing.
So three more rounds of applause for the Nam's favourite Transit Armadillo &apls &apls &apls
-Dave
Thanks for releasing NWM ver 1. I did noticed when i was watching the traffic in Varrock City that they were going in and out of the center lane all the through the city. Is that a possible bug? Just wondering ok, otherwise greatwrok on the NWM Modd it looks fantastic. btw, where can i find the turning lanes for 2010 or 2009. I accidently deleted that file from my game :D. new to replace the turning lanes again grrr i hate that when i do things like that deleting wrong files!
WOWOWOWOWOWOW AMAZING! I had to take a break already because there is so much to take in I thought I was going to pass out!
You guys are insane. Every time I start the game I feel like there should be a new opening movie because you guys with the rest of the NAM and the RHW teams have reinvented this game. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Thanks so much for this awesome addition to our favourite game!
Here's some stuff I've done with all the new NAM addons released today:
http://www.csgdesign.com.au/CSGf/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=525
-Jordan :thumbsup:
Quote from: top of the threadwhy did it taking so long to release?
:P
Some problem, when I tried to plop the NWM it did not appear and it said the string was missing, any help?
Same thing with tulips(what ever there called)
Same thing here netmod. &mmm
It sounds to me like an installation error, and that you likely have some outdated files laying around. Please read NAM FAQ Item #1 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5094.msg161792#msg161792).
-Alex
Ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod it'sout it'sout its'out!!
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Calm down there!
Holy crud, it's actually out. Tarkus, you are a god, man. A GOD. I give you my eternal gratitude!
*runs off to download and install new NAM and NWM 1.0*
Thank you for sharing a nice mod, NWM team. :)
I'd tyr to plop test in my city, I had problme with CURVE pieces. $%Grinno$%
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg686.imageshack.us%2Fimg686%2F1516%2F001huc.jpg&hash=b2b7a0aa75d435b2ae1e7e36d5676d9ae8bf6d02)
I used latest-NAM(2010) and NWMod only in my Plugins.
Give my any helps or advice please. ;)
Thank you.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:太感谢了 不过就是找不到下载的地方
Quote from: motodoll on May 10, 2010, 02:53:46 AM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:太感谢了 不过就是找不到下载的地方
Please kindly use English here, thanks ;D
在這邊請用英文,感謝 ;D
I have the same problem as MAS71
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi141.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr70%2Fchoco_028%2FNewCity-Apr3051273495699.png&hash=2c6959aa922a8cfc42d8fc8a11b538605c7fef37)
this was taken with the new NAM only as well.....
Quote from: MAS71 on May 10, 2010, 02:19:59 AM
I'd tyr to plop test in my city, I had problme with CURVE pieces. $%Grinno$%
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg686.imageshack.us%2Fimg686%2F1516%2F001huc.jpg&hash=b2b7a0aa75d435b2ae1e7e36d5676d9ae8bf6d02)
I'd try to use NWM-files included
Windows-version and
MAC-version, they could not solved a problem. ;D
and tried to use NWM without file 'Left-hand verrsion plugins..."' too, it was not soloved. $%Grinno$%
All files of NWM is read after NAM-files.
Thanks for helps ;)
I've been checking this website daily for years in anticipation for the release of this module...now that it's here, I am STUNNED! Thank you guys for all your hard work!
I did want to point out an issue I'm having so that you're aware. I'm having issues with the rendering of transition pieces. Please look at the attached photos for examples.
Thanks again!
This one's obvious:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fefrontsolutions.com%2Frandom%2Fsc4%2Fave.jpg&hash=bd7e3fdab2d3770cf21f39b712109cb7d506e0d3)
In this one, look at the transition from 2-way to 3-way ONR:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fefrontsolutions.com%2Frandom%2Fsc4%2Fonr.jpg&hash=899152ca64867e939795282a50e4eaeb29d863a7)
I am not an expert but it may be a software rendering problem, have you tried it in hardware mode? :thumbsup:
Last night I tested the NWM with the center lane for turning only with the police cruiser. when i drove on the TLA-3, the cruiser was weaving in and out
of the middle lane. Is That a bug or what? cause i cause me drop out of the
u-drive it mode.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Varrock City(Maxiston City and Steven Point)
Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!!
I've been waiting for this so long...
&apls &apls &apls
Will somebody make Euro textures?
DanniBee, I only run SC4 in hardware mode. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Is anyone else having this problem?
I've just discovered a capacity problem:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F263db070c2cf837d2e7e3c9a65c580c6.jpg&hash=b4261b1f474613c32767802566d3345196f8a035) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/263db070c2cf837d2e7e3c9a65c580c6.jpg)
For no apparent reason, TLA-5 seems to have a lower capacity than MAVE-4 and TULEP-Ave, altough query says they all are based on the Road network.
Could it be TLA-5 works like an intersection all over its length?
Great job on getting so much into the 1st release of the NWM. A shame I cannot play the game til my pc is back up but this release just makes me want to play the game even more now.Cannot wait to see if my sims will prefer the drive then using mass transit with some of these setups in place.
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on May 09, 2010, 06:39:22 PM
One could scarcely conceive of the enormous exhilaration, joy, and gratitude that I feel on this day, with RHW 4.0 being released, a new NAM being released, and the long-awaited Network Widening Mod.
Thank you very much for your wonderful work over the past 4 years. Without it, my cities would be unrecognizable, and with these tremendous new tools you have provided me, they will go through a similar transformation over the Spring and Summer of 2010.
here...here or is it hear...hear :D
&apls &apls &apls
sincere thanks to everyone on the nam team
Jack
Quote from: Wilfried on May 10, 2010, 01:30:23 PM
I've just discovered a capacity problem:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F263db070c2cf837d2e7e3c9a65c580c6.jpg&hash=b4261b1f474613c32767802566d3345196f8a035) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/263db070c2cf837d2e7e3c9a65c580c6.jpg)
For no apparent reason, TLA-5 seems to have a lower capacity than MAVE-4 and TULEP-Ave, altough query says they all are based on the Road network.
Could it be TLA-5 works like an intersection all over its length?
Hmmm, I have also been having a lot of capacity issues with the TLA-5 I built. I didn't want to deface my MD city with American Textures, so I used a neighbouring tile to build a NWM test city, and at first I attributed the backups to intercity commuters (there are a ton of them), but eventually I noticed congestion popping up in strange places. I am writing a 7 page research paper right now, but when I'm done, I may post some screenshots.
Well, I checked again with DrawPaths enabled; this thing IS an intersection for all of its length. That's understandible, though, because it wouldn't work as supposed if it weren't 'all-intersected'.
yddot, that appears to be at least partially the result of the "wealthification" we did on the transition pieces. It works alright most of the time, but sometimes, particularly if it's on a slope, you might run into some slight interlacing between the wealth textures and piece model.
Wilfried, if you're running into capacity problems on the TLA-5, it's likely because you have an incompatible simulator installed. Continuing to use anything other than the new NAM Unified Simulator, Simulator A or Simulator B can result in
severe reduction in capacity on many of the NWM networks. It should be described in the Readme and in the FAQ.
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on May 10, 2010, 09:37:46 AM
Last night I tested the NWM with the center lane for turning only with the police cruiser. when i drove on the TLA-3, the cruiser was weaving in and out
of the middle lane. Is That a bug or what? cause i cause me drop out of the
u-drive it mode.
It's a side-effect of the crossover path functionality that pops up from time to time. It's especially noticeable in UDI on the TLA-3. It's recommended you turn off "Snap To Roads" if trying to use UDI on a TLA-3.
As far as the "missing texture" glitch some folks have been running into on Wide-Radius Curves, it appears to be endemic to users who have the NWM installed but not the RHW. That particular texture was part of
smoncrie's MORPH Curves package, which was used to make the NWM curves and the RHW-2 and MIS curves in the RHW, but somehow didn't make it into the NetworkWideningMod.dat file. It's attached below now, though, and will be added into the main file once we're sure that's it as far as fixes.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 10, 2010, 03:25:37 PMWilfried, if you're running into capacity problems on the TLA-5, it's likely because you have an incompatible simulator installed. Continuing to use anything other than the new NAM Unified Simulator, Simulator A or Simulator B can result in severe reduction in capacity on many of the NWM networks. It should be described in the Readme and in the FAQ.
Well, I checked again with DrawPaths enabled; now I see this thing IS an intersection for all of its length. That's understandible, though, because it wouldn't work as supposed if it weren't 'all-intersected'. And yes, I know what the new simulators are about and how they work...
Tarkus, thanks for the reply. Do you have any suggestions for minimizing this issue, since it appears most other people aren't experiencing it, or at least aren't experiencing it 100% of the time as I am? Perhaps any conflicting plugins? Thanks again for all your hard work!
yddot, it is not the result of conflicting plugins that's for sure. the main issue has to do with the height the textures are displayed in game. It's prtty much guess work as to the height of normal textures then figuring out the best height for the model. In some instances we are talking about .025 difference. so really it is a development issue that we will improve upon in a later version. As for now i'd recommend making sure they are built on absolute flat tiles -the transition that is.
-Dave
Dave, thanks for the information. Just so you know, the first picture I posted has transition pieces that are on perfectly flat land. I'm only making you aware so that you know that perhaps something else is at play here, rather than varying elevations. So I'm not complaining--just giving you guys feedback so you can continue to build upon the already amazing stuff you've provided to us! Thanks again.
well hello everyone here~
First of all, thanks to Tarkus and all the other NAM Team members for their great job of NWM, which gave us an opporunity to build widen urban streets in the game :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Secondly, i do also found the bug, which pointed out by Mas71 san last page.
those NWM curve pieces have some RGB tiles around them.
and here i'll say, i have installed the latest NAM system and i'm sure everything of my NAM stuff is up to date.
but the bug occured only when i remove the RHW v4 folder from my Plugins, and when i put RHW back to my Plugins folder, guess what,
these curve pieces worked functionally.
So i guessed, these NWM curve pieces should quoted some unknown textures, which was included in the RHW.
And considering both RHW and NWM's creator is Tarkus, so...may i irresponsibly say he didn't notice these missed textures are found in RHW and just quoted them to NWM anyway, and all the test members have RHW and NWM at a same time when they testing those Modds, no problems! and thus this bug came out.
i don't mean to censure someone, it was just my hypothesis why the bug appears.
i do know everyone of NAM Team is extreme busy at work, but still brings us countless new stuff for several years.
and we'd appreciate about that :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
and here are 2 pics below, which support my words..
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toofiles.com%2Fzh%2Ft%2Fimages%2Fpieceswithrhw.jpg&hash=07451280feb38d11b7adcea2b9c6945c212ed39b)
and
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toofiles.com%2Fzh%2Ft%2Fimages%2Fpieceswithoutrhw.jpg&hash=46f881283fbf234f26004766a80ff24b53652fc0)
have a nice day to everyone ;D
PS: oh when i finally post the rely i noticed Tarkus had already upload a fix to the bug. thanks my friend, and i'll have a test again
thanks again:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
PS2: and i put this small fix to the NWM folder, it seems the bug had corrected?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toofiles.com%2Fzh%2Ft%2Fimages%2Fpieceswithoutrhwfix.jpg&hash=6d141ed01a272c29cd0ecad05bfda48f1d6ec597)
thanks for Tarkus's great job again and again, and sorry for the huge size of the pics :-[
whale :thumbsup:
()what()
When I select any of the NWM or TLA puzzle pieces from the menu I get this message in the dialogue box above the piece I'm trying to place:
##Intersection Placement String Missing##
Does anyone know what this means?
The game displays a green arrow along with the preview of the puzzle piece, but when I try to place it on the terrain it doesn't show up. It's there because I tried to run another network over the tiles and got a red strip. It even bulldozes, showing the cost of destruction when I drag it over the invisible puzzle piece.
@Tarkus
I solved a problem about RGB-tiles on curve lots (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg324636#msg324636) thanks to you ! :thumbsup:
Thank you for update a fix-file, and your quickly support always. ;)
and
I had find a problem again as medit84truth said.
but it was in RHW curves Lot (not NWM) ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F3235%2Fimage1tx.jpg&hash=46242a12dede7635a86403dbf4bb3d76241facc8)
@Masuda-san: The icons in your screenshot are the RHW 3.0 icons, so please check your NAM folder if the old files are still there.
Quote from: medit84truth on May 10, 2010, 08:44:40 PM
()what()
When I select any of the NWM or TLA puzzle pieces from the menu I get this message in the dialogue box above the piece I'm trying to place:
##Intersection Placement String Missing##
Does anyone know what this means?
The game displays a green arrow along with the preview of the puzzle piece, but when I try to place it on the terrain it doesn't show up. It's there because I tried to run another network over the tiles and got a red strip. It even bulldozes, showing the cost of destruction when I drag it over the invisible puzzle piece.
You need the new "May 2010 NAM Essentials" that should fix a majority of your problems. And delete "all" of any old NAM files, It solved mine
Now that the OWR-4 is available for everyone, could you guys do an 'OWR-4-to-Dual-OWR-2' splitter like the one from RHW-8 to dual RHW-4?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F1e94a520e4bff2d0a2e84b5cdee49ac7.jpg&hash=01dc4e7d372eeb4197fc076443e31f2f155f6b3a) (http://www.ld-host.de/)
Quote from: yddot on May 10, 2010, 07:55:07 AM
I've been checking this website daily for years in anticipation for the release of this module...now that it's here, I am STUNNED! Thank you guys for all your hard work!
I did want to point out an issue I'm having so that you're aware. I'm having issues with the rendering of transition pieces. Please look at the attached photos for examples.
Thanks again!
This one's obvious:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fefrontsolutions.com%2Frandom%2Fsc4%2Fave.jpg&hash=bd7e3fdab2d3770cf21f39b712109cb7d506e0d3)
In this one, look at the transition from 2-way to 3-way ONR:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fefrontsolutions.com%2Frandom%2Fsc4%2Fonr.jpg&hash=899152ca64867e939795282a50e4eaeb29d863a7)
I have had that problem too, but it was only when I started zoning around it or when development started. Great mod though, it is only a small problem that I don't mind having, as the overall mod is outstanding =)
@Andreasr san
Oh my ! $%Grinno$%
Thank you for helps Andreas san, and sorry for my misunderstanding medit84truth. :-[
Rural High Way MOD, Real High Way MOD, and Rural Road Plugins.....
I'm confused well with these helpful good MODs. ;D
I'll check that later and try again too. ;)
Thank you always Andreas san !!
When I am trying to place my roads the cursor never turns green, it stays red. ()what() Am i supposed to build a road and then place it over that? But even then it doesn't turn green. I've tried to do everything I can but it just doesn't turn green. Can I get some advise that will help me solve this problem? That would be great if anyone could help me out. :thumbsup:
on the Turning Lane Avenue, lanes and the turning lane road and I am in udi mode and I have my car locked to the road the car always turns in to that little turning lane and I can not do anything about it, then the car fades away and udi mode is funished! also the normal traffic is always going into that lane and dissapering? why?
thank you
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5224/tlastreetintersectionya7.jpg
Quote from: cheezebs on May 11, 2010, 04:11:36 PM
When I am trying to place my roads the cursor never turns green, it stays red. ()what() Am i supposed to build a road and then place it over that? But even then it doesn't turn green. I've tried to do everything I can but it just doesn't turn green. Can I get some advise that will help me solve this problem? That would be great if anyone could help me out. :thumbsup:
You've got the "Red Arrow Bug", which is a sign of an improper installation and the presence of outdated files conflicting with your new installation. See
here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5094.msg161792#msg161792)Quote from: starfinder9659 on May 11, 2010, 04:43:42 PM
on the Turning Lane Avenue, lanes and the turning lane road and I am in udi mode and I have my car locked to the road the car always turns in to that little turning lane and I can not do anything about it, then the car fades away and udi mode is funished! also the normal traffic is always going into that lane and dissapering? why?
thank you
That's a known side-effect of the crossover paths. It is recommended that you turn off "snap to road" when using UDI on TLA networks.
-Alex
but what about the traffic...they zig zag all over the road and dissapear?
Quote from: Wilfried on May 11, 2010, 04:43:28 AM
Now that the OWR-4 is available for everyone, could you guys do an 'OWR-4-to-Dual-OWR-2' splitter like the one from RHW-8 to dual RHW-4?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F1e94a520e4bff2d0a2e84b5cdee49ac7.jpg&hash=01dc4e7d372eeb4197fc076443e31f2f155f6b3a) (http://www.ld-host.de/)
I second this. I was actually planning on posting this myself but Willy beat me to it. I thought pieces like this were going to be included, but thinking back I probably had it confused with the RHW in my mind. OWR-4 splitters would help a great deal in a number of circumstances, not the least of which would be when they intersect with a diagonal network. For that matter, the OWR-5 could split into a OWR/OWR-3 as well, but I don't want to get ahead of myself... the OWR-4 splitter would be a huge problem-solver.
But that being said, this massive release has been even more impactful on my social life that I had originally anticipated, LMAO!!! I don't recall ever seeing sunlight on Sunday! Everyone has done a stellar job on this whole project and it has truly been a game-changer. Thanks again. ;D &apls
Yes yes yes!!! That is the one piece missing from the magnificent puzzle that was certainly worth waiting for. :thumbsup:
Wow, took me 2 days to notice this (and the new NAM) was released :( All the wasted time....oh well, time to have some fun!! Thanks Alex and the whole NAM team!! :D
This is copied from the NAM bugs thread
Okay... I was UDIing this afternoon and drove over one of the NWM's new ARD wide curves to have UDI end when I drove onto the piece. Curious, I tried again and it happened again. I then turned the drawpaths cheat on to find this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg248.imageshack.us%2Fimg248%2F566%2Fgunning24aug60127363677.png&hash=22e19b8db6d81c4c54ffb8a20288d24a7b2fdd28)
(Excuse the menu, I think that might be why you lot are completely ignoring my repeated bug reports)
I re-plopped the piece, experienced lag, and wham! No paths.
I use the LHD plugin and yes, I have the newest version of everything installed.
EDIT: I have tested this piece and this bug occurs on all rotations. I have also discovered pathing problems on other puzzle pieces. Virtually every piece except all of the other 45-degree curves, the small 90 degree curves and all of the S-curves have a similar problem. I will post screenshots soon.
All pieces suspect pieces:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg293.imageshack.us%2Fimg293%2F205%2Fnewcity20jan01127364312.png&hash=2cf062f5a1895f0daab9e01b6a76c9c97392494d)
Other pieces I tried:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg534.imageshack.us%2Fimg534%2F1087%2Fnewcity30aug00127364269.png&hash=925d56bc512f833567a8c721332f64f4062ddbd8)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg29.imageshack.us%2Fimg29%2F3783%2Fnewcity7aug001273642614.png&hash=ad3e0c32d991cd731a34358d1e864dc716d19aea)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg268.imageshack.us%2Fimg268%2F9629%2Fnewcity4may011273643378.png&hash=c264df17e1530b680d2436532aea6c99f4a6faaf)
Leanne Colinder is not my name BTW.
Quote from: starfinder9659 on May 11, 2010, 07:55:03 PM
but what about the traffic...they zig zag all over the road and dissapear?
Same thing--it's a side-effect of the crossover paths that pops up from time-to-time.
jdenm8, those pieces are looking to be working properly on my end, at least in RHD mode, and as there isn't any LHD path remapping going on for them to the best of my knowledge, so it should just be automatically reversing them without issue in LHD mode. I'll take a look in LHD mode to see if there's something fishy going on.
Edit: Just confirmed in LHD. I don't entirely understand why it isn't working--there's nothing apparent. I'll keep investigating.
-Alex
I do not know how it works road TLA.
Turn preview paths and this is the difference between the street and TLA.
Where to use this road and why has such a twisted path.I ask because I do not know. ()stsfd()
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg192.imageshack.us%2Fimg192%2F6185%2Ftlastr.jpg&hash=fb39f5fccd773a18fd1b2349eefdf78bba2d99d4) (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/tlastr.jpg/)
The paths are twisted in order to make the sims able to cross the whole avenue. I think you can see such avenues only in the USA, I don't think there are any of this sort Europe.
I love the USA.
Thanks for the reply.
Man, this is SOOO F*%$#@! Cool!!!!!!!! Between the NWM, the new NAM, and RHW 4.0, I'm experiencing a bit of sensery overload! It's almost too much all at once. All of these new toys, I can't even decide where to begin. I'm going to have to call in sick from work for a few days so I can play with them. Big THANX to everyone envolved in all of these. WOW! &apls
Only in the USA? Haljackey will probably tell you don't forget Canada, the only difference is Canada puts the dashed lines outside the solid lines in the center. Living in the USA however, I can tell you first hand about close encounters on real TLA-5s. There seems to be a lot more tendency to cut traffic off on this TLA-5 network in real life, where as I have not seen so much of that attitude take place on real TLA-3s.
I know this is not part of the nwm, but I thought alex would know the answer, the question is that on the tulep, there is white pavement on the plopped tulep puzzle piece, even though you might have a sidewalk mod installed, is there a way so that the tuleps puzzle pieces will match the sidewalk mod I have installed?
thanks
Thank you, NAM team, for all your hard work on the NWM! I have one question for you for now: Are you planning to make a MAVE-6 to dual OWR-3 puzzle piece for a future release? Such a piece would be useful to those of us who want to make wide-median "avenues" with the OWR-3.
infact woodb3kmaster i already have the texture made for that one which will be available sooner than later $%Grinno$%
Just a ? concerning mave-3 to road transitions. I was wondering are we able to put traffic restrictions signs in the middle of them using the Lot editor? Just wondering about that.
cause I been thinking about doing that with all my cities i build.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Varrock City
(Maxiston City,Steven Point)
Proud to be cities of Sim Nation!!
This is a dream come true! :thumbsup: It's a whole new game now, thanks to the true devotion of the NAM team. I could spend a good week or two just flipping through the TAB rings, while enjoying every minute of it. Good work!
&apls
Quote from: superhands on May 12, 2010, 11:04:20 PM
infact woodb3kmaster i already have the texture made for that one which will be available sooner than later $%Grinno$%
Fantastic! Thanks, superhands!
Quote from: Starmanw402007 on May 13, 2010, 01:02:23 PM
Just a ? concerning mave-3 to road transitions. I was wondering are we able to put traffic restrictions signs in the middle of them using the Lot editor? Just wondering about that.
cause I been thinking about doing that with all my cities i build.
Your Friend;
Mayor Of Varrock City
(Maxiston City,Steven Point)
Proud to be cities of Sim Nation!!
These will be taken care of in an upcoming cosmetic mod. Can't say when, though - we like to surprise people!
Thanks for your response Ryan. I'll be looking for those when they are ready of course. Keep up the great work with these modds!!
I still haven't found the root cause for the NWM Wide-Radius Curve issue jdenm8 reported--it seems to escape all logical explanation. However, I did figure out how to fix it. More on the front later . . .
-Alex
i was wondering if they can use T or cross intersection by using 6-lane medianless road?
The MAVE-6 intersects the default Maxis networks (except for highways) and the other NWM networks in both T- and +-intersections, if that's what you mean.
How do you get rid of the arrows on the 3, 4 and 5-lane one-way roads? The NAM arrow reduction mod doesn't seem to work...
Thanks!
Sorry for a really tupid question, but: where does the readme go after one executed the exe??? I can't find it on my PC? Problem is, I was looking for possible problems with the NWM since part of the most common crossings between NVM-network and standard networks are not working proper, like shown here:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg269.imageshack.us%2Fimg269%2F635%2Fmave4pathingproblem.jpg&hash=70e41b10839a92e6a0cf95598fa67ebd7bbbf691)
and here: connecting the road to that avenue/MAVE-4 junction will turn the road into half an MAVE-4
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg405.imageshack.us%2Fimg405%2F2589%2Fpathingproblem3.jpg&hash=291e744eee3608f71ef708a06c7ca86c2be257a4)
Also, you cannot build a T-intersection between a MAVE-4 and a road wwhere the road intersects all 4 lanes of the MAVE-4. Have a look:
This is possible:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg404.imageshack.us%2Fimg404%2F7240%2Fmave4intersect1.jpg&hash=48eae475089b9141dba4da921d3db0e16b8c5cd2)
This is possible, too:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg139.imageshack.us%2Fimg139%2F1531%2Fmave4intersect2.jpg&hash=087094d15a78f54da261fe32fbbbd8f0cc7f6d18)
This is not possible:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg6.imageshack.us%2Fimg6%2F659%2Fmave4intersect3.jpg&hash=6c6ab7a4d9f71f32da92cb7fd3a3f53a3928b7c8)
So, basically I was looking for an overview of the current functionality - which network can be combined with which one and how. Some more impossibilities that I discovered:
- you won't be able to have diagonal intersections with the NWM ASR3 - it will turn back into a nromal road on that tile
- repeatedly intersecting a e.g. MAVE-4 within a few tiles will turn the MAVE back into a road - I guess that's the same problem that we encounter with the SAM roads
The readme is either installed into "My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\Network Addon Mod\Documentation" or the subfolders of the individual NAM addons, such as "\Network Addon Mod\Real Highway Mod" etc.
Yes Rady, its only the first released NWM, and there will be some limitations. I thought as in the case of the Road to MAVE had the texture for the other side of the T, maybe not, but it was very tricky where starter pieces were placed to get that Road T to connect right, and involved multiple clicking until the right opposing texture aligned.
The first picture, unless I can demonstrate a video work around otherwise, for now, you have to put a Mave to Avenue conversion piece before the end of that T and turn the end of that street into a road before connecting to the intersection. SC4 is not crazy about allowing 3 networks to intersect. Also, that TE bus stop is kind of cutting it close there.
As for connecting a road to AVE/Mave-4 junction, its not like Maxis allowed you to connect a road to an avenue T in the beginning. Despite the Mave being based on the road network, if you think about it, what you were trying to do is almost like attempting to connect 3 networks together: a road, an avenue and a Mave; and SC4 was not set up to allow that. However, there is a way to work around connecting a road to a regular avenue T but it requires a lot of puzzle piece after FX manipulation. Please see videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emiZhdZLwPg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFYJSKINhP0
While I realise that this is the first release of the NWM, and I'm very glad I finally can play with it, I did ran into some things I'd love to see in the next version:
- El-Heavy rail over NWM network pieces. Now I either have to make a tunnel (OWR-4's), or change network(MAVE-4).
- EL-Road over NWM pieces. Reason: See above.
- Parallel OWR-3 to MAVE-6. Now I have to reduce the amount of lanes first, to change into two OWR-2's, to change those into one AVE-4, which I then can convert to a MAVE-6. It's no problem capacity wise, but does look unrealistic.
- As earlier suggested: OWR-4 to two OWR-2's, both parallel and with one branching off.
- Two tiled networks can go 'round corners: Would help a lot. Current solution is to make it into a four-way intersection with two stubs, which just looks weird and takes up valuable space.
- OWR-6. Though I don't really need it, if you can cram 3 lanes into one tile, then cramming 6 lanes into two tiles shouldn't be much of a problem. I however completely understand it if this one will have to wait quite some time.
- Bridges for two tile networks. I don't know if they already exist for one tile ones, 'cause I haven't tried, but I'm pretty sure that they aren't present yet for the two tile networks. They'd obviously have to be avenue based, but since the wider RHW bridges will be MHW based, this should also be possible, right?
Can't think of anything else right now, though I do have some suggestions for the RTMT-team, which I'll address in their sub-forum.
Regards,
Korot
Has anyone yet figured out a way to avoid this problem with transition pieces? It happens to me 100% of the time and I'm curious if maybe it's just my computer... (I don't have another Windows machine to test on)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fefrontsolutions.com%2Frandom%2Fsc4%2Fsc4.jpg&hash=3a546d90f32bab8d4eea77061c069b9713e1957a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fefrontsolutions.com%2Frandom%2Fsc4%2Fsc2.jpg&hash=2ac3ba1727ee079b8c890f58010612e429e19304)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fefrontsolutions.com%2Frandom%2Fsc4%2Fsc3.jpg&hash=b70c4e302cfd21ea4e6fe13c82b9db10dea147a9)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fefrontsolutions.com%2Frandom%2Fsc4%2Fsc1.jpg&hash=13d1e43768a4a61986ec638744b00ca6fb41c184)
The downloads on the LEX for the NWM have now been updated to Version 1.02, incorporating the previous patch for non-RHW users and also fixing the LHD Wide-Radius Curve issues. Additionally, the patch that is attached to the first post of the thread has been updated to Version 1.02, for existing users. Please note that if you downloaded the NWM after May 16, 2010, you
do not need to download the patch.
Quote from: Rady on May 16, 2010, 10:25:03 AM
and here: connecting the road to that avenue/MAVE-4 junction will turn the road into half an MAVE-4
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg405.imageshack.us%2Fimg405%2F2589%2Fpathingproblem3.jpg&hash=291e744eee3608f71ef708a06c7ca86c2be257a4)
That particular intersection won't ever be possible through draggable means due to coding limitations.
And
Korot, that's a good list there--virtually all of those are planned for some future release, either this next one or the one after, more than likely.
yddot, I've not been able to replicate that here on my end yet--it's possible it may indeed be some sort of graphic setting issue.
-Alex
Alex,
I just had the opportunity to try to replicate the problem on a friend's computer and was unable to do so.
On my computer, I've tried different versions of drivers, changing driver settings, disabling Win7 Aero, everything. I'm considering just buying a new computer for SC4 use. This is a Dell Latitude E6400...brand new, fully loaded with the good nVidia card. Apparently it's just not going to work on this machine. Oh well.
Matt
Just a suggestion,
Can I ask for a MAVE4 - Road transition? Having to go back to AVE-4 and then to road is a pet hate of mine.
Quote from: yddot on May 16, 2010, 02:43:44 PM
Has anyone yet figured out a way to avoid this problem with transition pieces? It happens to me 100% of the time and I'm curious if maybe it's just my computer... (I don't have another Windows machine to test on)
<pictures snipped>
I get this issue as well; so it is likely not just your computer. I use an NVidia graphics card (specifically, an NVidia GeForce 8800GS); if you use one also then perhaps the issue is only for NVidia cards?
The transition issue is most likely with how your video card z-fights. I think there's an option in the Nvidia panel.
Quote from: Cosmic on May 16, 2010, 05:17:57 PM
I get this issue as well; so it is likely not just your computer. I use an NVidia graphics card (specifically, an NVidia GeForce 8800GS); if you use one also then perhaps the issue is only for NVidia cards?
I think it must be an nvidia thing. I tried to duplicate the problem on a computer with ATI graphics and the issue was pretty much non-existent. I'm still looking for a way to fix this. I can't exactly swap video cards in a laptop...
Quote from: Tarkus on May 16, 2010, 02:49:26 PM
yddot, I've not been able to replicate that here on my end yet--it's possible it may indeed be some sort of graphic setting issue.
Alex,
I've made some observations. The problem only exists when there is zoning or development placed next to the transition piece (you mentioned "wealthification" before and I think that's contributing). Also, I can rotate my map and sometimes the problem will completely disappear by doing that. But upon returning to the original direction, the problem returns. Also, zooming out to the third highest zoom level seems to fix it as well. But of course, this is not very useful. Also, moving screen away from the problem area and returning to it causes it to render differently--the problem is still there, just either slightly better or slightly worse than before.
I think the comment about the z-fighting might be spot on, but I have no clue which settings to tweak in the NVIDIA control panel for that.
I hope these observations might shed some light on the problem. I LOVE NWM but this issue is very distracting--sometimes it causes the road to disappear completely from view!
Thanks again for your effort.
Matt
I'm having some problems with downloading the May Nam 2010. When i click on download I come up with that message that tells me i have to try again when i do.
I does it again. Reason why i need to replace the Origional May 2010 release is
because I'm missing turning lanes for avenues. And when i re install it its still missing.
Your Friend;
SWhitehouse
(May Of Varrock City,Maxiston City,Steven Point)
proud to be cities of Sim Nation!!
I have one question on the NWM - Why are the TLA-5 and MAVE-4/-6 based on the Road network and not the One-Way Road network? Are there any technical reasons for that?
Oh, and another thing - please consider these two screenshots:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2Fa51f1984e780edf96820e4ac97b8c0c2.jpg&hash=0ed1c23f6a25ed7c160d9166c269c0ca157a6488) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/a51f1984e780edf96820e4ac97b8c0c2.jpg) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F9d97fdacadcacd1e6b9c0adf9c03535b.jpg&hash=43e016777629476bcc465bc40838fc674f7ecb1e) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/9d97fdacadcacd1e6b9c0adf9c03535b.jpg)
There are paths missing or wrong, when a Street or Road is connected to only one half of an OWR-4. (I'm already using z-NWM_Fixes.dat aka NWM 1.02.)
hey ALex ...
brian here...
Fantastic job on both the NWM and RHW releases !
Hopefully you feel the hours and hours you toiled and worked so hard on these 2 mods were worth it !
looks like the pathing is missing from the OWR-3 ending in T intersection with road.. Left hand turn from
OWR-3 on to road network,
thanks again brian
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg232.imageshack.us%2Fimg232%2F623%2Flefthandturnmissing.jpg&hash=3ecbbfa3ef68a52eea908e3230e48fa1d73a1fbb)
That probably should merge down back to regular OWR-2 before hitting the road, even if all lanes were pathed, its not the most safest thing to have three lanes end where theres only two ways to go. This isn't a bank, which is even worse, because in real life, banks can have multiple lanes all go out into only one place to turn to.
I need help ()sad() I'm not sure what I did or did not do but when I am UDI'ing around in snap to mod I can only drive in one direction on the TLA-3, when I drive the other direction it keeps wanting to turn me left at every path junction, I checked pathing and everything is correct ... anybody have any ideas??
jpj_starfleet, that's just a quirk with the TLA networks. TLA-5 does it too if you're in the inner lanes. Tarkus' recommendation is to turn snap off while using the TLA-3 network.
I second that. Even before the NWM came out, there are just way too many instances where if you have snap turned on, your going to experience some seriously awkward results, and I don't know if one can stand having to continuously type in the cntrl-x cheat box udriveit and end up click-stealing on some random person's car to drive their car wherever you were initially going to go, and then having to do it again every time after losing another car you were just driving. It don't take much to lose your ride in SC4. Although, without the command option to steal traffic cars in this game, it can take a lot longer to drive the car you actually want.
So snap off and drive safe.
Also, just experimented with OWR neighbor connections, using the demolished avenue x rail puzzle piece exploit. (the same type of exploit that allows wider RHW neighbor connections without loop holes) So far so good, car traffic flows in and out of the city. I don't have any pictures right now, but at least the game is okay with the asymetrical building of the OWR-2 out next to OWR-3 in, you just have to use the exploit.
Snap off, OK :P
Quote from: b22rian on May 19, 2010, 05:01:40 PM
hey ALex ...
brian here...
Fantastic job on both the NWM and RHW releases !
Hopefully you feel the hours and hours you toiled and worked so hard on these 2 mods were worth it !
looks like the pathing is missing from the OWR-3 ending in T intersection with road.. Left hand turn from
OWR-3 on to road network,
thanks again brian
Thanks for the kind words, Brian! :) As
j-dub pointed out, it's kind of an odd one, and its existence is actually primarily predicated on the fact that it needed to exist in order to allow the ARD-3 and the dual-tile NWM networks to have T-Intersections with OWR-3s. I think the pathing should work a bit better on the reverse side, though I'll probably revisit that one now that you've brought it to my attention.
And I've also added the UDI/TLA info to the FAQ as well.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 21, 2010, 12:22:10 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Brian! :) As j-dub pointed out, it's kind of an odd one, and its existence is actually primarily predicated on the fact that it needed to exist in order to allow the ARD-3 and the dual-tile NWM networks to have T-Intersections with OWR-3s. I think the pathing should work a bit better on the reverse side, though I'll probably revisit that one now that you've brought it to my attention.
And I've also added the UDI/TLA info to the FAQ as well.
-Alex
Thanks for replying Alex...
after i read j Dub's comments i do agree with what he said..
I was just going through testing and looking to see what was functional and what was'nt at first i think..
But like J Dub though i do enjoy playing the transit of the game with what is realistic..
but also your balancing that with the limitations of the game, your map, and space..
so many times, your like "darn ! another transition, and you end up running out of room a lot of times..
if your someone like myself who builds dense , urban cities much of the time..
anyways, those are the 2 elements your always trying to balance all the time..
What works best, in terms of realism with transit..
But than also, space can sometimes be an issue, because in the end it is still a game with
certain limitations at time with spacial concerns..
Thanks again for insightful comments, both Alex, and J dub..
again most grateful to the NAM team for all they have done fir us through the years,
brian
I had a small suggestion for a possible future transition; One could make OWR-X intersections where a lane turns on or off to resize it, rather than a long transition. I've seen a lot of cases IRL where such happens. Something like, OWR-5 with a right turn lane, after the intersection, it continues as a 4, or an OWR3 becomes a OWR2. I'm sure if this can be figured out, --course I've got no modding experience-- then it could maybe even be mirrored to add lanes. Obviously this'd make far more intersection pieces, but it's just some random idea and two cents.
Quote from: zakuten on May 22, 2010, 04:15:55 PM
I had a small suggestion for a possible future transition; One could make OWR-X intersections where a lane turns on or off to resize it, rather than a long transition. I've seen a lot of cases IRL where such happens. Something like, OWR-5 with a right turn lane, after the intersection, it continues as a 4, or an OWR3 becomes a OWR2. I'm sure if this can be figured out, --course I've got no modding experience-- then it could maybe even be mirrored to add lanes. Obviously this'd make far more intersection pieces, but it's just some random idea and two cents.
It's an almost absolute certainty that something like that will likely be implemented as part of the expansion to the NWM's TuLEP system. One way you'll see TuLEP development heading in the future is intersections-as-transitions.
-Alex
I'm not sure if this is NWM territory but I was wondering if it would be possible to create a Y split/junction from a road to two one-way roads? the picture below shows what I'm going for...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finlinethumb20.webshots.com%2F18067%2F2648516580053958490S600x600Q85.jpg&hash=97752140dba3db9fb793239768d346494992d6fb) (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2648516580053958490ECBaxC)
Thank You ()borg()
I am having a problem with the OWR-5 network. Cars on this road will drive the right direction for a few seconds, then instantly flip around and drive the wrong way. Sometimes they just stop after changing direction and there are multiple cars stopped in the wrong way, one behind another. This only seems to happen in the middle lane of the road. And when automata make a left turn from OWR-2 onto my OWR-5, they just disappear after making the turn, even though they didn't change lanes to make the turn.
Quote from: Moonraker0 on May 23, 2010, 06:28:55 AM
I am having a problem with the OWR-5 network. Cars on this road will drive the right direction for a few seconds, then instantly flip around and drive the wrong way. Sometimes they just stop after changing direction and there are multiple cars stopped in the wrong way, one behind another. This only seems to happen in the middle lane of the road. And when automata make a left turn from OWR-2 onto my OWR-5, they just disappear after making the turn, even though they didn't change lanes to make the turn.
I noticed that too. The pathing looks like the OWR-5 is being treated as a TLA-5 but with each 'half' moving in the same direction. I think the Sims see the middle 'turning lane' as an opportunity to get to their destination more directly rather than circling a block (or whatever the case may be).
Hi all,
first thank you fopr this wonderfull addition to this game - it really add's a lot of realism. Second, is there an overview of the capacitiy of the different NVM networks? I didn't find anything in the readme ..
Thanks!
They all have the same capacity as the network they are based on, which means that TLA-5, MAVE-4, and MAVE-6 have the capacity of two roads, AVE-2, TLA-3, and ARD-3 have the capacity of one road, and the wider OWRs have the capacity of one one-way road (or two in the case of the OWR-5).
Quote from: jpj_starfleet on May 22, 2010, 10:34:27 PM
I'm not sure if this is NWM territory but I was wondering if it would be possible to create a Y split/junction from a road to two one-way roads? the picture below shows what I'm going for...
There's any number of mods whose job that could be. :D From the looks of your pic, that would actually suggest TuLEPs--if one were done for a Road-into-Dual-OWR-1s, it'd be an NWM job, though.
Quote from: Moonraker0 on May 23, 2010, 06:28:55 AM
I am having a problem with the OWR-5 network. Cars on this road will drive the right direction for a few seconds, then instantly flip around and drive the wrong way. Sometimes they just stop after changing direction and there are multiple cars stopped in the wrong way, one behind another. This only seems to happen in the middle lane of the road. And when automata make a left turn from OWR-2 onto my OWR-5, they just disappear after making the turn, even though they didn't change lanes to make the turn.
That's one of the side-effects of how the crossover paths were done. I may look into finding an alternate way of implementing the crossover such that the cars won't "burn rubber", though.
Quote from: Rady on May 23, 2010, 11:06:13 AM
Second, is there an overview of the capacitiy of the different NVM networks? I didn't find anything in the readme ..
There isn't right now--it's partially because the traffic simulator situation was in a little bit of flux still when I was writing the Readme. Essentially, what
deathtopumpkins said above me is correct. I may add a table back in at some point, though with the myriad of options now available with the Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool (TSCT), it's kind of a moot point to some extent.
-Alex
I was looking to see if there is a way or does it have to have an addition since I have seen issues in connecting with the SAM streets.
Quote from: imperialmog on May 24, 2010, 04:16:51 AM
I was looking to see if there is a way or does it have to have an addition since I have seen issues in connecting with the SAM streets.
It's a little annoying, but I think they're just not supported.
Quote from: imperialmog on May 24, 2010, 04:16:51 AM
I was looking to see if there is a way or does it have to have an addition since I have seen issues in connecting with the SAM streets.
That's planned for a future release.
-Alex
Hey, how can I have an intersection between an ARD and a road, but after the intersection, the ARD turns into a one way road?
Will there be overpasses and Elavated Puzzle Pieces for NWM networks? Like the current One Way Road, Road, and Avenue Puzzle Piece Set Up.
Quote from: skitbil on May 25, 2010, 08:46:48 AM
Hey, how can I have an intersection between an ARD and a road, but after the intersection, the ARD turns into a one way road?
I suppose you can't, since this equals an road t-junction with an one-way-road joining on the free side like this:
O
O
O
RRRRRRRRRRR
R
R
R
which I assume is impossible, too.
At least I haven't mastered such a junction right now.
Quote from: sitejunction on May 26, 2010, 05:34:46 AM
Will there be overpasses and Elavated Puzzle Pieces for NWM networks? Like the current One Way Road, Road, and Avenue Puzzle Piece Set Up.
Eventually, though that's more of a long-term plan. The main issue is that it would require intensive modeling work to elevate the NWM networks.
-Alex
Quote from: skitbil on May 25, 2010, 08:46:48 AM
Hey, how can I have an intersection between an ARD and a road, but after the intersection, the ARD turns into a one way road?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg517.imageshack.us%2Fimg517%2F8854%2Frdardowrint0.jpg&hash=a051969653c267927541c31e353039758927551d)
I managed to build an intersection like this that is functional according to the tests that I've run, but it requires TuLEPs to build. It requires the use of the RoadxRoad TuLEP intersection, as well as two Road TuLEP transitions, a OWR-3 to OWR-2 transition, and two TLA-3 TuLEP transitions.
EDIT: Updated for improved functionality
I want to the ARD to have two lanes one way and one lane the other way the whole way through.
Is the NAM working on diagonals for the widen roads they have created.
The 1-tile networks already have diagonal functionality (even complete with transitions - though not all intersection possibilities work yet), and additional functionality should be added in the future.
Is it just me or is an Elevated Highway / OWR-5 crossing missing all paths on both networks? I can do a screenshot later if needed, just got no time for it right now.
Quote from: skitbil on May 26, 2010, 04:12:46 PM
I want to the ARD to have two lanes one way and one lane the other way the whole way through.
It's sometimes tricky to create crossings with NWM roads involved. E.g. I discovered that when crossing the OWR-3 with the ARD-3, the ARD reverses it's orientation after the crossing (that is, I do have 2 lanes right / 1 lane left before the crossing, and 1 lane right / 2 lanes left after the crossing). I discovrered that this only works if you drag the ARD first and then drag the OWR over the ARD to create the crossing. Dragging the OWR first and then the ARD over the OWR resulted in above mentione problem.
So possibly just try to change the order of dragging your road / ARD.
Excellent piece of work!!
Just having a problem with the in-road/in-avenue bus stop and subway tiles.
Any suggestions?
Quote from: scruffylkn on May 27, 2010, 04:35:02 PM
Excellent piece of work!!
Just having a problem with the in-road/in-avenue bus stop and subway tiles.
Any suggestions?
There aren't any in-road/in-avenue bus stop/subway tiles for the NWM.
-Alex
So, the NWM won't work with other transit lots I have downloaded like bus and subway stops that sit over the roadway tiles instead of taking up tiles beside roads?
Bummer.
Quote from: scruffylkn on May 27, 2010, 04:52:00 PM
So, the NWM won't work with other transit lots I have downloaded like bus and subway stops that sit over the roadway tiles instead of taking up tiles beside roads?
Bummer.
They will work, it's just they'll look terrible and may break the override.
I have download NAM May 2010 and NWM, but everytime I try to make a 3 lane one way it shows up blank and it says on every plop for NWM that intersection string is missing. Can anybody help me out?
Quote from: peace on May 29, 2010, 11:15:41 AM
I have download NAM May 2010 and NWM, but everytime I try to make a 3 lane one way it shows up blank and it says on every plop for NWM that intersection string is missing. Can anybody help me out?
It sounds like you've got some sort of conflicting plugin (outdated NAM version or something of the sort) sitting in your Plugins folder, and it's causing your NWM not to function. See
NAM FAQ Item #1 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5094.msg161792#msg161792) for more info--while you may not be running into the "red arrow", there's a similar process belying your issue.
Quote from: michi_cc on May 26, 2010, 10:35:41 PM
Is it just me or is an Elevated Highway / OWR-5 crossing missing all paths on both networks? I can do a screenshot later if needed, just got no time for it right now.
It is . . . appears that pathfile had an invalid path stanza count, which caused the whole thing to not function properly. Got it fixed, and there will be a 1.0.3 update soon.
-Alex
Great mod!
I was very pleased with the turning lanes that came with the NAM, but then I noticed that in real life, turning lanes aren't just at intersections.
Then I saw the TULEPs, or is it TULEPS, whatever ::), and was happy with that, but realized it wasn't the full widening mod.
I remembered the NWM and downloaded that, and it was exactly what I thought those flower things were going to be like.
It's great-
turning lanes without an intersection, and even more than I expected-
all sorts of modified roads! :o
Great work!
An idea just came to me. &idea
How about a ground highway to MAVE-6 transition? That way you don't lose a lane.
-The RHW to OWR / Avenue transitions work smoothly for 4 lane networks, but we don't have something there for the 6 lane ones.
Alex, I know you're very anti Maxis highway, but I feel this could be a good add-on to the mod. In addition, a RHW-6S to MAVE-6 transition could also be useful.
Keep up the good work everyone! I'm liking how you're using the NWM in your cities! :thumbsup:
I was noticing that what would be helpful for me is a TLA-3 to TLA-5 transition.
Quote from: Tarkus on May 27, 2010, 04:38:54 PM
There aren't any in-road/in-avenue bus stop/subway tiles for the NWM.
-Alex
Not quite... I just found these:
http://yume22.tistory.com/category/:%20%E5%A4%A2%E5%AD%90%27s%20BAT%26LOTs (http://yume22.tistory.com/category/:%20%E5%A4%A2%E5%AD%90%27s%20BAT%26LOTs)
(scroll down)
Quote from: Haljackey on May 31, 2010, 07:43:42 AM
An idea just came to me. &idea
How about a ground highway to MAVE-6 transition? That way you don't lose a lane.
-The RHW to OWR / Avenue transitions work smoothly for 4 lane networks, but we don't have something there for the 6 lane ones.
Alex, I know you're very anti Maxis highway, but I feel this could be a good add-on to the mod. In addition, a RHW-6S to MAVE-6 transition could also be useful.
Actually, that sounds like a reasonable idea for most of the dual-tile two-way networks. There will be a draggable Dual OWR-3-to-MAVE-6 transition in Version 2.0 as well.
Quote from: sim-al2 on May 31, 2010, 12:44:41 PM
Not quite... I just found these:
http://yume22.tistory.com/category/:%20%E5%A4%A2%E5%AD%90%27s%20BAT%26LOTs (http://yume22.tistory.com/category/:%20%E5%A4%A2%E5%AD%90%27s%20BAT%26LOTs)
(scroll down)
Very nice, but looking at the date, they're from 2008--2 years before the NWM was released. So in all likelihood, they're designed to work with
Ryan B.'s old Avenue texture mod, meaning they're TE'd for Avenue and won't work on the TLA-5.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 31, 2010, 02:22:05 PM
Very nice, but looking at the date, they're from 2008--2 years before the NWM was released. So in all likelihood, they're designed to work with Ryan B.'s old Avenue texture mod, meaning they're TE'd for Avenue and won't work on the TLA-5.
I noticed the date on them, too, but being curious, tried them out. They wouldn't plop on the TLA-5, as expected.
Opps, I never checked. I kinda feel dumb right now. ::)
Here's a list of suggestions of things that I would like to see added to the next/future release of the NWM.
1. Diagonal NWM single-tile networks with Straight Maxis/NWM networks Intersection (Definately)
a. ARD-3 intersecting (Street, Road) (Not in v1.0.2)
2. Diagonal NWM single-tile networks with Diagonal Maxis/NWM single-tile networks Intersection (Definately)
3. Diagonal NWM/Maxis single-tile networks with Straight NWM two-tile networks Intersection (Definately)
a. Rail intersecting (OWR-4, OWR-5) (Not in v1.0.2)
4. Elevated Maxis networks over NWM Networks
4. OWR-1/OWR-2/OWR-3/OWR-4/OWR-5 Cosmetic Network-Connection Piece (Doesn't look nice going from (a) Road(s) to a OWR at the edge of the city) (Definately)
5. AVE-8 (I know AVE-6 is already planned) (Probably).
6. Elevated NWM networks (Will more than likely take a lot of work. Would like to see single-tile networks implemented first.) (Probably)
7. Diagonal two-tile NWM networks (Probably)
I will be updating this list as I come up with new ideas.
Larry (debutterfly)
Great to see this finally get a release after so long! Amazing. Thanks very much to the team for all of their hard work!!!
I'm guessing this will eventually be integrated into the NAM?
FireSka, it's already been incorporated into the NAM with the release.
Quote from: Ryan B. on June 01, 2010, 12:09:15 PM
FireSka, it's already been incorporated into the NAM with the release.
You sure? I don't see the avenues without the median and the avenues with the consistent turning lane through the middle in the NAM May 2010 release. The release only has the intersection turning lanes. As the FAQ above says, the NWM is dependent on the NAM May 2010 release, but must be downloaded separately.
I have a few questions/suggestions :)
In a later release, will the dual tile networks go diagonal? If so ill they be plopable like the diagonal GLR in Avenue?
And will there be TLA-9? And MAVE-8 (Ive seen these before).
Also will there be ARD-4/5? Or TLAard-4,5 and TLAard-6= with two lanes going in one direction a center turning lane and three lanes going in the other direction?(ive seen this before to)Or MAVEard-5,6
FireSka, the NWM is a separate download from the NAM, although it requires the NAM. The TLA-5 is not built with the Avenue tool at all, but it is built by dragging Roads from the TLA-5 starter piece found in the NWM menu.
Quote from: metarvo on June 01, 2010, 02:01:10 PM
FireSka, the NWM is a separate download from the NAM, although it requires the NAM. The TLA-5 is not built with the Avenue tool at all, but it is built by dragging Roads from the TLA-5 starter piece found in the NWM menu.
Yes, I realize this. All I was stating somewhat rhetorically was that I wonder if this will eventually be incorporated into the NAM so no separate download is required. My guess is yes, eventually... as long as the NAM is still being worked on.
Quote from: FireSka on June 01, 2010, 02:34:59 PM
Yes, I realize this. All I was stating somewhat rhetorically was that I wonder if this will eventually be incorporated into the NAM so no separate download is required. My guess is yes, eventually... as long as the NAM is still being worked on.
Actually, no. The reason the mods are two separate downloads is because they are
two different mods, even though the NWM relies on the NAM to work. Also, not everybody wants do use the NWM so having another option in the list of options in the NAM installer would not be in the end user's best interest. And finally, the folder size would be rather large if both mods were packaged together instead of being separate. There may be more reasons but that covers some of the main ones.
Quote from: Nego on June 01, 2010, 02:45:22 PM
Actually, no. The reason the mods are two separate downloads is because they are two different mods, even though the NWM relies on the NAM to work. Also, not everybody wants do use the NWM so having another option in the list of options in the NAM installer would not be in the end user's best interest. And finally, the folder size would be rather large if both mods were packaged together instead of being separate. There may be more reasons but that covers some of the main ones.
Cool, gotcha. I'll continue to download each separately then. This mod is great!
Quote from: debutterfly on June 01, 2010, 09:40:42 AM
Here's a list of suggestions of things that I would like to see added to the next/future release of the NWM.
1. Diagonal NWM single-tile networks with Straight Maxis/NWM networks Intersection (Definately)
a. ARD-3 intersecting (Street, Road) (Not in v1.0.2)
2. Diagonal NWM single-tile networks with Diagonal Maxis/NWM single-tile networks Intersection (Definately)
3. Diagonal NWM/Maxis single-tile networks with Straight NWM two-tile networks Intersection (Definately)
a. Rail intersecting (OWR-4, OWR-5) (Not in v1.0.2)
4. Elevated Maxis networks over NWM Networks
4. OWR-1/OWR-2/OWR-3/OWR-4/OWR-5 Cosmetic Network-Connection Piece (Doesn't look nice going from (a) Road(s) to a OWR at the edge of the city) (Definately)
5. AVE-8 (I know AVE-6 is already planned) (Probably).
6. Elevated NWM networks (Will more than likely take a lot of work. Would like to see single-tile networks implemented first.) (Probably)
7. Diagonal two-tile NWM networks (Probably)
I will be updating this list as I come up with new ideas.
Larry (debutterfly)
Definite possibilities, I'd say. Elevated stuff is going to be model-dependent, so it'll probably take the longest.
Quote from: TJ1 on June 01, 2010, 01:16:14 PM
I have a few questions/suggestions :)
In a later release, will the dual tile networks go diagonal? If so ill they be plopable like the diagonal GLR in Avenue?
And will there be TLA-9? And MAVE-8 (Ive seen these before).
Also will there be ARD-4/5? Or TLAard-4,5 and TLAard-6= with two lanes going in one direction a center turning lane and three lanes going in the other direction?(ive seen this before to)Or MAVEard-5,6
Diagonal functionality is eventually planned in some form for all networks, though the implementation is not fully worked out. It might mirror how the implementation's progressed on the RHW.
There are no plans for MAVEs wider than the existing MAVE-6 right now . . . as far as TLA-9 . . . well . . . ;) I'm looking into asymmetrical setups as well.
Quote from: FireSka on June 01, 2010, 02:34:59 PM
All I was stating somewhat rhetorically was that I wonder if this will eventually be incorporated into the NAM so no separate download is required. My guess is yes, eventually... as long as the NAM is still being worked on.
What
Nego said is basically correct. Additionally, it gives us the option of updating the NWM in between NAM releases, if we ever choose to do so.
-Alex
QuoteDiagonal functionality is eventually planned in some form for all networks, though the implementation is not fully worked out. It might mirror how the implementation's progressed on the RHW.
Considering when you look at past endeavors, I would say just go with the diagonal pieces. If you guys look at the Tram in Avenue diagonal pieces, this may give you an idea how NWM could look like and work out.
NWM is a wonderful addition to the NAM. But I can't bring myself to use it (though I haven't use the entire thing). I'm not saying the to down the commitment and effort you've put into this. I really appreciate it. However, at least these are needed:
1. Street crosswalks/intersections
2. El/GLR/etc pieces, intersections
3. Curves and diagonals for MAVE-4 and 6 (these are the ones I used but probably others that are not available)
This would be nice also:
Oneramps for NWM roads.
I could go on about other things but it's only for a particular city at this point.
Like I said, I think the NWM is really groundbreaking, but I just don't think it's necessarily at it's potential. But NAM itself had to evolve so I hoe you don't find any rudeness in what I'm saying.
Well, your in a land of the freedom of speech but don't tell that to the creator. He and a limited others put a lot of work and years from their lives into this mod. Sure, the NWM may not have everything, but again, its not even one year old since it was just released. It has room to grow. When the RHW first came out, it only was a 2 to 4 lane highway, instead of having a 6 lane highway, now the RHW is much more then that. The NAM also only had so much when it first released too, look what happened the years since. I honestly did not expect the NWM to come out when it did, so yeah, give it time to grow.
Quote
1. Street crosswalks/intersections
Uh, something called drawing whatever network across the NWM network?
Quote
2. El/GLR/etc pieces, intersections
That's in the pipeline.
Quote
3. Curves and diagonals for MAVE-4 and 6
In the pipeline.
Quote
Oneramps for NWM roads.
NWM networks can interface with the RHW's MIS network.
But yeah, we'll be getting there and more features eventually. Everything takes time to grow :)
It's really amazing how much functionality is packed into the mod. I remember when the only intersections one could make with a RHW (then the ANT) were with roads. ??? I think your guys have really done some excellent work! :thumbsup:
I've noticed that when I drag ARD-3 a particular way,
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg42.imageshack.us%2Fimg42%2F263%2Fgunning30mar87127545279.png&hash=2b1d2fa93fb57a42a3f953865e7a53ae2f8ee31f)
The paths only go one way. The opposite to the up/down road. I don't know if this is a bug, a quirk or a limitation, but it just seems weird.
I Love this MOD!!!
Quote from: jdenm8 on June 01, 2010, 09:32:08 PM
I've noticed that when I drag ARD-3 a particular way,
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg42.imageshack.us%2Fimg42%2F263%2Fgunning30mar87127545279.png&hash=2b1d2fa93fb57a42a3f953865e7a53ae2f8ee31f)
The paths only go one way. The opposite to the up/down road. I don't know if this is a bug, a quirk or a limitation, but it just seems weird.
Explain? It all seems fine from here...
Look at the middle lane's path in the intersection. It's reversed relative to the rest of the ARD-3.
I just wanted to let the nwm team know about this missing texture here - http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2551/nwmbug.jpg
Quote from: woodb3kmaster on June 02, 2010, 12:26:22 AM
Look at the middle lane's path in the intersection. It's reversed relative to the rest of the ARD-3.
Its true, but it doesnt really matter. If anything it should be both-way but it still doesnt matter, the vehicles from the stem of the T can still access both lanes as soon as they are off the junction.
Quote from: starfinder9659 on June 02, 2010, 02:01:27 AM
I just wanted to let the nwm team know about this missing texture here - http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2551/nwmbug.jpg
That's not a "missing texture", but actually too much of a texture there--the black area's supposed to be transparent.
-Alex
but it only happenens at certain zoom levels, but when you zoom close again, the texture comes back
That's because every zoom is a different texture technically. So if an alpha map fails in one zoom, it doesn't affect the others.
oh...ok...thank you for your help
Quote(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg42.imageshack.us%2Fimg42%2F263%2Fgunning30mar87127545279.png&hash=2b1d2fa93fb57a42a3f953865e7a53ae2f8ee31f)
You know the funny thing is, I tried to replicate this and instead I end up coming to an intersection where there is another problem. I managed to now spot a regular Maxis one way road T's at an ASR, only to find the T flipped around and the texture for the one way facing the wrong way. Unfortunately the game did not really save my pictures to the album folder. Oh well.
Why is it that my NWM is not functioning? ()what() :bomb: :'(
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi432.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq42%2Fstanleymalls%2Funtitled.jpg&hash=69da699f026687de79e930ec3cd4a84d935428fd)
Truly need an answer to this. ()stsfd()
^^ The answer can be found on page 71:
Quote from: Tarkus on May 29, 2010, 01:59:34 PM
It sounds like you've got some sort of conflicting plugin (outdated NAM version or something of the sort) sitting in your Plugins folder, and it's causing your NWM not to function. See NAM FAQ Item #1 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5094.msg161792#msg161792) for more info--while you may not be running into the "red arrow", there's a similar process belying your issue.
Try to read topics better in the future. It's quite possible you can find you answer there.
Will there be bridges added for NWM networks?
Good day everyone, SOrry to ask this, I am sure it's somewhere in here,. but for the life of me i cant see it.. the arrows on the streets your seing in the pic's when people are showing the trafic pats.. well.. I cant seem to see them in my SC... can some one point me to a thread a video or something that will let me see how i can have them, as i would like to be able to also see where my trafic is going, rather than simple all green/yellow and red coverings on my networks....By the way.. still un able to make tunnels. and all the video i see people making tunnels. but nothing showing the puzle peaces there using... I was able to make all the water go away and i can draw the subway tunnel with or without water,. but i cant seem to get anything to let me plop in the area where the water would be.. am I missing something? Thank you so very much. God Bless
Thank you sim-al2 . Thats the ones. and thank you for the directions. will give that a try..
Thank you jdenm8 , am sure am trying to use the FLups. will have to keep trying. if your knowing anything of the big tunnel in Dubia,. you may get what am trying to do. Thank you for your reply...
You mean these arrows?
Quote(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg42.imageshack.us%2Fimg42%2F263%2Fgunning30mar87127545279.png&hash=2b1d2fa93fb57a42a3f953865e7a53ae2f8ee31f)
You need to download SC4 Extra Cheats
here. (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2261) Then open the cheat box (Ctrl+X) and hit F1. Scroll down to DrawPaths, click that and hit enter. If you want to remove them, open the list again and choose HidePaths.
@ MOREOPTIONS, you need to use the FLUP tunnels without a texture. They're at the end of the FLUP. Personally, I use the custom surface ones.
If you're thinking of dragging subway, You might be thinking of the Big Dig set which is different.
@MoreOptions, furthering Jdenm8, you do NOT use subway in association with FLUPs, you press tab and go to the tiles that only have the tiny rectangles on the edges, and you put those pieces together so the line connects to each other. You said you had a way to make water go away, which is a good time to build when there is nothing blocking your view. The tiles with the tiny rectangles on the edges, whether they have surfaces or are without a texture, should be able to plop, and should not be prevented by the water since those are underground pieces.
As for the Big Dig set, those are traffic enabled lot transitions that do NOT come with the NAM by default. The Big Dig oneway road to subway tunnel entrances should either be on the LEX or STEX exchanges. Big Dig uses subways to connect car traffic, FLUPs just uses puzzle pieces, no subway is needed. MoreOptions, if you find and get the Big Dig set, you will only find the tunnels from the Big Dig set under the bus icon (Misc Transit) button when you first click on the road icon button.
Hopefully we explained it for you, good luck building.
Any chance of the Big Dig ever being compatible with FLUPS?
Well the problem is that the Big Dig converts traffic to subway (so only cars will work) and puzzle pieces can't actually convert traffic. Having the Big Dig pieces as puzzle piece ramps would be cool though, but someone would have to make them.
Welcome, I have one little question: It's possible to completly reduced one way arrow on One-Way Roads?
QuoteHaving the Big Dig pieces as puzzle piece ramps would be cool though, but someone would have to make them.
About the Big Dig: The problem is, I think Bhlady (can't remember how to spell) would have to give consent or want to be doing the remodding for that to happen, because if it would be revisited, RHW and OWR-3 seemed like good candidates to have versions of Big Dig, and then maybe later versions of stuff in the NWM could of benefitted. The good thing is now you can just rotate to the OWR tunnels in FLUPs, which I admit did do well to replace where road to sub underpass below the highway in one of my cities used to be, the FLUPs from this year allowed OWR connections underneath, and could turn, but I still use Big Dig because how detailed it looks, personally this method is easier for me when going underwater then piece by piece. The torture for me is, I have just one never before released diagonal Bhlady Big Dig entrance ramp modeled, texture mapped, lotted, network enabled, and in game, but its not like its going to go anywhere, years ago, I posted a picture of it on this forum in show us your tunnels, or whatever. If Big Dig was revisited, I would of liked to see those ramps in association with the Real Highways, but there are some new NWM opportunities where they also would of made sense.
Bartol, glad you joined SC4D. About the arrows. I tried using the full One Way arrow reduction plugin with the NWM before, and I could not see what was going on without it, so I don't know if that is the best idea. I don't know if that is the case for you, but I have used the OWR reduction plugin that comes with the NAM, I don't know if you saw it.
Pardon my interruption, but I believe I've made a little discovery that greatly improves the potential of the NWM:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi397.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp56%2Fsmileymk%2Fmulti-nwm.jpg&hash=1948d26314d1e72e3c355371181b14a0816bc046)
Enjoy...
AHa ... and what exactly would that be? What are we supposed to discover here ..? ()what() ()what() ()what()
He discovered that by bulldozing one side of the starter piece you can split an NWM network. ;)
Quote from: Rady on June 09, 2010, 05:54:08 AM
AHa ... and what exactly would that be? What are we supposed to discover here ..? ()what() ()what() ()what()
Multi-NWM. Yes, you heard me correctly. You can apply the 'half-highway' concept to NWM. That's the discovery (and I do not know of anyone who is already aware of this.)
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on June 09, 2010, 06:43:22 AM
He discovered that by bulldozing one side of the starter piece you can split an NWM network. ;)
Err, not exactly. It essentially involved bulldozing the
entire starter piece, dragging road back to fill in the gap, dragging an el-rail through one side of the road, then demolishing the el-rail.
I'm gonna have to try that out in-game... not sure how it would work, as how can the override be initiated at all without the starter piece?
Simply bulldozing one side of the starter piece is much simpler anyway.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on June 17, 2008, 08:49:46 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fnew_mavesliplane.jpg&hash=34c27bb3fef74e5a6e3a282e1fb970960c92e6e4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi237.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff288%2Ffoxteltv%2Fnew_mave_road.jpg&hash=ac496f1a559b361967476c33409d6c78a2062fda)
I'm such a tease, aren't I? ::)
There is also a MAVE-6, but I'm dealing with the MAVE-4 first. It should theoretically be possible to combine a MAVE-6 and MAVE-4 to provide a MAVE-5... it just means a single-sided override drag.
I was wondering what happened to these slip lanes that were posted a while back - the impossible left turn on the diagonal road/ave intersection has always bugged me.
Also, is anyone still working on euro textures for the NWM networks?
@DTP: Did he just mean, after you demolish the starter piece in any event? Because the stub stay theres, and you can still build the network.
As for NWM, I know Shadow Assassin had built his roads where he had 2 straight lanes one side, and 3 lanes the other where they had to be built by splitting up.
However, as we keep on progressing, it looks like RHW and NWM are almost the same. In Smiley's case, that intersection picture is a prime example Even though I know its just NWM, it reminds me and looks like the old days of RHW.
As for diagonal slip lanes to straight-aways, IDK what happened to that.
This discovery provides yet another way to create a divided four-lane road. 2 parallel OWR-2's dragged in opposite directions with a one tile median could be used, although the multi-Avenue technique could also be used to achieve a similar effect with a slightly different style. The RHW-4 can be used for this purpose as well, at the expense of RCI support. Finally, two parallel MAVE-4 halves can be dragged to form yet another type of divided four-lane road. When the different types of T21s, sidewalks, and other features are taken into consideration, the use of each of the above types of four-lane networks can add a significant degree of flavor to a city IMHO.
Quote from: Dexter on June 09, 2010, 09:31:57 AM
I was wondering what happened to these slip lanes that were posted a while back - the impossible left turn on the diagonal road/ave intersection has always bugged me.
Also, is anyone still working on euro textures for the NWM networks?
The files for those slip lanes still exist, so it may be an eventual possibility.
As far as Euro NWM textures, from what I know, there isn't really anyone working on any right now. To the best of my knowledge, Daniel's primarily focused on his RHW set and isn't planning on doing Euro NWM stuff for the foreseeable future. There have been a couple prototypes floating around behind closed doors, but they were very preliminary and haven't gone any farther that I'm aware.
Quote from: Bartol on June 08, 2010, 08:03:03 AM
Welcome, I have one little question: It's possible to completly reduced one way arrow on One-Way Roads?
Are you talking about getting rid of OWR arrows on the NWM One-Way networks?
Tropod's old OWR Arrow Removal plugin on the STEX, which can be found
here (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21371) should do the trick. Make sure it's loading after the NWM and NAM, though.
-Alex
As I recall the demolish half highway gives you no way to deviate in any ways from perfectly straight, so curves would have to be addressed other ways.
Is it possible to change the new NWM Avenues stoplights from this:
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3474/vn1.png
To These stoplights:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1760/img0019xs5.jpg
or like this:
http://yfrog.com/mostoplightj
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on June 09, 2010, 07:51:10 AM
I'm gonna have to try that out in-game... not sure how it would work, as how can the override be initiated at all without the starter piece?
Simply bulldozing one side of the starter piece is much simpler anyway.
Like j-dub said, you can delete the starter piece entirely after plopping and dragging and it won't delete the network. This works for any starter piece network, not just NWM.
Quote from: j-dub on June 09, 2010, 09:37:15 AM
However, as we keep on progressing, it looks like RHW and NWM are almost the same. In Smiley's case, that intersection picture is a prime example Even though I know its just NWM, it reminds me and looks like the old days of RHW.
I guess it does, only the NWM is an all-purpose road, so you can put buildings and RCI on it - so in that respect it's more flexible than RHW.
Quote from: metarvo on June 09, 2010, 12:00:44 PM
This discovery provides yet another way to create a divided four-lane road. 2 parallel OWR-2's dragged in opposite directions with a one tile median could be used, although the multi-Avenue technique could also be used to achieve a similar effect with a slightly different style. The RHW-4 can be used for this purpose as well, at the expense of RCI support. Finally, two parallel MAVE-4 halves can be dragged to form yet another type of divided four-lane road. When the different types of T21s, sidewalks, and other features are taken into consideration, the use of each of the above types of four-lane networks can add a significant degree of flavor to a city IMHO.
Absolutely right. There's always the possibility of mixing networks as well... like MAVE-4 outside with RHW-6C inside... And BTW, what does IMHO mean? I'm not great with these slang acronyms...
Quote from: SC4BOY on June 09, 2010, 05:17:43 PM
As I recall the demolish half highway gives you no way to deviate in any ways from perfectly straight, so curves would have to be addressed other ways.
Yes, that is a problem, at least until the NWM people make MAVE go diagonal (hint!)
Quote from: zdog720 on June 10, 2010, 11:40:37 PM
Is it possible to change the new NWM Avenues stoplights from this:
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3474/vn1.png
To These stoplights:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1760/img0019xs5.jpg
or like this:
http://yfrog.com/mostoplightj
Do these work? (They replace the ones on the NWM as well)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fvz1234512%2FNAM%2FOther%2Fscreen2.jpg&hash=1b5e024e746b5a8a521a3b1834072cc8f50b186e)
Though if you want those DC/CA-styled lights, there needs to be someone willing to do all the T21's.
Just to hammer the point home...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg710.imageshack.us%2Fimg710%2F8724%2Fhuntersstraight29sep497.png&hash=311894a682cca904d116481c08643e660ccd9377)
That's just a simple matter of only dragging out on one side, demolishing the starter piece, placing the other starter piece, and then dragging the other side.
Quote from: smileymk on June 11, 2010, 03:48:04 AM
Like j-dub said, you can delete the starter piece entirely after plopping and dragging and it won't delete the network. This works for any starter piece network, not just NWM.
Yes, but only if you drag it at least 6 tiles from the starter piece first.
jdenm8: Nice! Glad someone finally tried an asymmetrical one. The NWM was designed with that capability in mind.
@ DTP: You can get rid of the excess afterwards.
@ jdenm8: That's one way to do it. My way was simply another method. That asymmetrical avenue is pretty good! I'll have to try it out.
Quote from: smileymk on June 11, 2010, 07:44:33 AM
@ DTP: You can get rid of the excess afterwards.
Yes of course you can. I do know what I am talking about...
are there coming turning lanes for this mave-6 intersection? that would be pure awesome ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F2195%2Fsimct.jpg&hash=ebc877d027c0ec126399e230e0284e61031df190)
Quote from: jdenm8 on June 11, 2010, 07:21:51 AM
Just to hammer the point home...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg710.imageshack.us%2Fimg710%2F8724%2Fhuntersstraight29sep497.png&hash=311894a682cca904d116481c08643e660ccd9377)
That's just a simple matter of only dragging out on one side, demolishing the starter piece, placing the other starter piece, and then dragging the other side.
Awesome. It's about time someone tried that.
I think it'd be called an ARD 5. I tried that once and that's what came to mind.
I once created an ARD 5 but never used it in a city...
Compared with the ARD 3,...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi887.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac72%2FGDO29Anagram%2FNewCity-Jan3001276117589-1.jpg&hash=68c74a1e3d1a99d4b3c0a41a661142af6d976d3a)
Just don't create a street intersection with it; It won't look good... Believe me, I tried...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi887.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac72%2FGDO29Anagram%2FNewCity-Jan3001276270907.jpg&hash=98340293d29ec1c600eceb031aceb8d2bb69a8cf)
QuoteThough if you want those DC/CA-styled lights, there needs to be someone willing to do all the T21's.
The California traffic lights style already is public for this game, because I have those new animated 3D signals mounted onto a version of those California poles from that picture of Heblem's fake avenue crossroad. The scale is not exactly the same as the picture, but the nice curved poles alone were T21'ed for the game, and do not mess around with the signals. I don't have the link though, but occasionally you may have seen me or others with pictures of them, because they are out there, but they may not be named California.
What I want is the widest possible avenue with cross street interface to all other network types, end transitions to other road and avenue types, and curves. The MAVE-6 has the largest capacity, I suppose, but doesn't support curves. That led me to utilizing the OWR-3 with both directions in parallel. This almost functions as I can get the end to transition to an AVE-4, the standard SC4 avenue. And, I get full cross street functionality to other standard and addon streets. Additionally,the OWR-3 does support curves to the clockwise diagonal.
The single issue I have is getting the OWR-3 to transistion from the diagonal, counter-clockwise, to the orthogonal direction.
I played around with the diagonal pieces to see if they would provide some help and ran into a second issue. (I'm not ready to post pictures yet) With the OWR-3 and other one way roads and avenues, the starter piece drags in the direction of the arrow. With the diagonal pieces for the OWR-3 drag in the direction opposite to the arrow. Hmmm. Why is that?
I haven't documented the outcome of all combinations of road types, it is quite a few, but so far...with what I've played with, it seems that there are more ways things don't connect than there are ways that they do. I know, from what I've read, that the mod technology has peculiar limitations that have to be dealt with. So, given the choice, I'd rather fewer road and avenue options with maximum inter-connectivity than have alot of road and ave options with limited inter-connectivity. It just got all so frustrating going through all the methods of placement and combinations of transitions to get from an AVE-4 up to a six lane curvilinear avenue then transition to a MAVE-6 so I could get connected to the neighbor. Wow, like hours.
Yeah that's what I mean is it possible to use these stoplights with the Avenue only Intersections within the new NWM? Because the mod u released does replace the in-game maxis stoplights, but they don't replace the new modded Avenue intersections stoplights(with the long-arm poles on the right side of the street): for example
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3474/vn1.png
Can they be placed on these stoplights?:
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8724/huntersstraight29sep497.png
@zdog720, Those lights should work with the NWM because they replace the pole, you may see them on road x nwm avenue intersections, but usually avenue x avenue nwm interesctions, especially 5 lanes and up, have the extended straight arm signal poles overhanging the crossroads.
Quote from: Dexist on June 11, 2010, 08:00:23 AM
are there coming turning lanes for this mave-6 intersection? that would be pure awesome ;D
There will eventually be some TuLEPs designed for the MAVE-4 and 6.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on June 11, 2010, 08:27:01 AM
I think it'd be called an ARD 5. I tried that once and that's what came to mind.
. . .
Just don't create a street intersection with it; It won't look good... Believe me, I tried...
I think I may have internally called it MAVE-5 in the RUL entries. It was actually a sorta-partially-intentional feature, though not advertised. However, I'm considering putting an actual, proper starter piece for it in Version 2, and will probably redo the MAVE-6 intersections with the Maxis networks so they'll line up better to allow that. There are plans for more asymmetrical networks down the road as well--it'll probably be a Version 3 thing.
Quote from: itfitzme on June 11, 2010, 10:03:21 AM
What I want is the widest possible avenue with cross street interface to all other network types, end transitions to other road and avenue types, and curves. The MAVE-6 has the largest capacity, I suppose, but doesn't support curves.
. . .
So, given the choice, I'd rather fewer road and avenue options with maximum inter-connectivity than have alot of road and ave options with limited inter-connectivity.
All the networks are intended to eventually go diagonal and be able to curve. We weren't able to get the diagonals for dual-tile networks in place for Version 1, though, as it's rather difficult coding to do that and the logistics of tile consumption still needed to be worked out to some extent. What we have right now is simply an initial release . . . a rather large one, but still, an initial one.
The way the coding works on these various networks, there's a lot of crossover between them, so once one's got certain features in place, it means it can be rather quickly copied over to the others, so really, there's no reason to choose between more networks vs. more connectivity.
-Alex
so i need some help with this. im kind of new to this stuff but i installed nam and nwm but i cant find any of the puzzle pieces that are included in them. any ideas what im doing wrong?
Quote from: monkeysown92 on June 11, 2010, 11:52:39 AM
so i need some help with this. im kind of new to this stuff but i installed nam and nwm but i cant find any of the puzzle pieces that are included in them. any ideas what im doing wrong?
First off, welcome to SC4D!
If you have the NAM and NWM installed, there should be a series of buttons for puzzle pieces under the Roads menu. If they're not there, there's likely some sort of conflicting plugin sitting in your plugins folder that's preventing them from showing up.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on June 11, 2010, 11:55:00 AM
First off, welcome to SC4D!
If you have the NAM and NWM installed, there should be a series of buttons for puzzle pieces under the Roads menu. If they're not there, there's likely some sort of conflicting plugin sitting in your plugins folder that's preventing them from showing up.
-Alex
crap. well just to make sure where do the NAM and NWM files install to? i dont see them in my plugins folder
They should be in Plugins\Network Addon Mod. There should be a Network Widening Mod folder inside that folder for the NWM.
Edit: I should add, that's going to be the Plugins folder in your My Documents\SimCity 4 folder, not Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4.
-Alex
thanks tarkus. yea i realized that. i installed it again to the plugins folder and it works now.
Quote from: Tarkus on June 11, 2010, 11:21:38 AM
There are plans for more asymmetrical networks down the road as well--it'll probably be a Version 3 thing.
... Like asymmetrical TLAs...? I was gonna ask about that but didn't have anything to show for as an example... Though I did in fact see one in real life... :-[
Yeah the avenue intersections have the right stoplights before u add the NWM turning lanes and intersection piece to the actual intersection. for example:
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/3394/75140400.png
I was wondering if these same stoplights( with streetlight attached) can replace the the stoplights on the puzzle piece intersection of the NWM intersection piece
to replaced these ones below after the turning lanes and intersection are added:
http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8600/40766246.png
because these stoplights automatically override the intersection I was wondering can these stoplights also be edited to have the streetlight attached to the arm as well, to be a stoplight/streetlight combo?
Quote from: zdog720 on June 11, 2010, 04:01:39 PM
Yeah the avenue intersections have the right stoplights before u add the NWM turning lanes and intersection piece to the actual intersection. for example:
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/3394/75140400.png
I was wondering if these same stoplights( with streetlight attached) can replace the the stoplights on the puzzle piece intersection of the NWM intersection piece
to replaced these ones below after the turning lanes and intersection are added:
http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8600/40766246.png
because these stoplights automatically override the intersection I was wondering can these stoplights also be edited to have the streetlight attached to the arm as well, to be a stoplight/streetlight combo?
Actually, the signal poles in the pic you're referring to are out of
Heblem's HD signal mod on the STEX, found
here (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=23909). They are designed to work on the TuLEPs, NWM, etc. and replace the mast arm assemblies on the default T21s. If you have the mod installed and you're still seeing the Maxis defaults, then you have the mod installed improperly. I've not used the mod myself, but I would imagine it would need to load after your NAM installation in order to function fully.
Edit: Oh, and
jdenm8, you'll be happy to know that I think I have that issue you reported with the ARD-3/ARD-3 T-Intersection fixed. It was actually a RUL issue, not a pathing issue. The fix is going into the next public controller, which will be released concurrently with NWM 1.0.3 and RHW 4.0.5.
-Alex
Oh I okay got it, thanks Alex!!!
I am having a problem with NWM seems as if MAVE-6 intersects any network one side seems to convert into ARD-3, it is the same side no matter how i drag it or how it is rotated ()what() http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5379/manorcityjan54812763978.png (http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5379/manorcityjan54812763978.png) Is there a bugfix out or an upcoming bugfix for this problem?
Quote from: sitejunction on June 13, 2010, 07:43:31 AM
I am having a problem with NWM seems as if MAVE-6 intersects any network one side seems to convert into ARD-3, it is the same side no matter how i drag it or how it is rotated ()what() http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5379/manorcityjan54812763978.png (http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5379/manorcityjan54812763978.png) Is there a bugfix out or an upcoming bugfix for this problem?
That's because you built the intersection very close to the starter. Try bulldozing the starter and rebuilding and see if that helps.
-Alex
Well thanks for the help. Keep up the good work on NWM and other mods
I love the NWM, so much, I decided to help make it better (if it can get better);D
I just thought I would stop by here, after all I am attempting something for MAVE-4, roads, streets, OWR-2 (future) and OWR-3 (present).
For more pictures... if you want them (http://picasaweb.google.com/i.burn.stuf/NWMBikePathsTextures#)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_azaMXisv-w0%2FTBuHSlDDHaI%2FAAAAAAAAAfI%2FvuCaoliJByQ%2FOWR-3%2520diagonal%2520to%2520straight%25201%2520BK%252C%2520Starter-TypeB-2.3.jpg&hash=1b242c1b79cfb7c2974357be0d921d30d53f5053) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_azaMXisv-w0%2FTBajHHsAewI%2FAAAAAAAAAcw%2FNGNt8mGafdI%2FOWR-3%2520Straight%2520BKp%2520STARTER-RHD-StyleB.jpg&hash=9c1e51ac8b6e724246a0e68134deb158f51a36be) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_azaMXisv-w0%2FTBfbQJjaTDI%2FAAAAAAAAAdg%2FMOf2x0EtIhg%2FOWR-3%2520rail%2520intersection-BKp-StyleB.jpg&hash=14e471e09979dab143111c84333cbe7200c3e2a2) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_azaMXisv-w0%2FTBeqQsvZNeI%2FAAAAAAAAAdA%2FIT-1B54f0W4%2FOWR-3%2520stratight%252BBKp%2520-%2520OWR-3%2520straight%2520TRANSITION-2.jpg&hash=53bac32eade911bb091c0983d59145494379deac) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_azaMXisv-w0%2FTBtylKgwTNI%2FAAAAAAAAAd4%2F0JDHimdOpdg%2FOWR-3%2520AVE-2%2520intersection%2520SIDE%252BBKp%2520Style%2520B.jpg&hash=258ae303dc61a62472f6058bdfa13a9a29bcb944) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_azaMXisv-w0%2FTBajW9T7pmI%2FAAAAAAAAAc0%2FN_77jxPENP8%2FOWR-3%2520Curve%252090%2520BK%2520arrow-B-StyleB.jpg&hash=f65feea5d38c1acb521fd1e4e2b3cb4d6d462507) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_azaMXisv-w0%2FTBt5tM0fwDI%2FAAAAAAAAAeA%2FRo9Z5JbJjn0%2FOWR-3%2520END%2520intersection%2520low%2524%2520BKp%2520StyleB.jpg&hash=1b6c695b3c494a026c9d3965fcfd2435b545c2c6)
However I am incompetent with DAT-ing, and I know that the bike symbols will have to be turned into T-21s as will the arrows. Apparently text is a no-no so I'm not gonna put that in if that is true and if I make a final version.
Don't worry, after Larks I'm almost the next chat insomniac... you could call me the GMT insomniac XD
... that's not funny is it?
Cool textures Cracks &apls
(now if only new pedestrian on bike animations could be allowed in by the game and added in)
Is there any plans for OWR-4 to a regular OWR-2 splitter?
Nice work,
Cracks--interesting concept there. :)
Quote from: Kitsune on June 18, 2010, 03:00:51 PM
Is there any plans for OWR-4 to a regular OWR-2 splitter?
Yes, absolutely.
And on another note, for those who don't know,
ErwinNegentig's
YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/ErwinNegentig), a very useful repository of SC4 video tutorials, has been restored. And he's recently added a new one, an NWM guide, which I've now linked into the new Tutorials section of the sticky post:
http://www.youtube.com/v/B69td77x7cg
-Alex
`The vid's are great now can you show us how to cross The 6's-10's with over passes. even trying to split them into part n/s e/w I have been trying to manage that for some time, tunnelling is also troublesome unless i dig so deep that i get a good tunnel not using flups.. but am trying to go over and under.. in some parts of the world theres lanes the are over 6 each direction with them able to go over., and having passes over them...am I over looking something? or is this one in the next nam. and have to wait.. if you need pic's i can surely arrange that for you... thank you. God Bless..... The rest is great. and looking forward to being able to beta test if anyone would like. i have a long vacation ahead of me and so much time. may even do some modd ing.... only have to teach my self to convert my cad's to use in here sc4. Well I said plenty. thank you for reading...
Are there any Road Top mass transit's compatible with the NWM?? If not are any in development?
-Matt
I was able to make something similiar to the ave 6, but I actually used the MAVE 6 to make these:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg690.imageshack.us%2Fimg690%2F9288%2Ftestcitymar302127712921.png&hash=90040874b454ef0f98fee4b623161781d74bdf11)
and this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg341.imageshack.us%2Fimg341%2F1417%2Ftestcitymar602127712924.png&hash=d241994e9e81871c323a37487c178e0de7be23f6)
Same thing with MAVE 4:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg341.imageshack.us%2Fimg341%2F1090%2Ftestcityjan140312771297.png&hash=0133114bc799194d8bd74dcfa995e01d0aa70266)
Also this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg532.imageshack.us%2Fimg532%2F2235%2Ftestcityjan190312771297.png&hash=3431fa0acccb6457de1248638667837d9da740f6)
These pics are Not Photoshopped at all ;D
Quote from: CityMaster563 on June 21, 2010, 07:30:00 AM
I was able to make something similiar to the ave 6, but I actually used the MAVE 6 to make these:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg690.imageshack.us%2Fimg690%2F9288%2Ftestcitymar302127712921.png&hash=90040874b454ef0f98fee4b623161781d74bdf11)
That's really cool. Reminds me of the wide medians in Barcelona. Nice find!
How didiyou do this? Using the MAVE6 and then deleting half of it using the railroad?
Looking forward for a tutorial!!! ;D
I've made a tutorial here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11158.new#new). I hope you find it helpful.
PS. That tutorual was my 64th post, moving me up to a forums Councilman.
;D
I'm more interested in the T21. I've tried multiple times to make one, but for some reason, the default T21s keep overriding it (even though it loads after). :angrymore:
the fail safe way is to directly copy the t21 file rather than building it from scratch- but i assume this what you have done already? :P
Owr-3 can also make nice avenues ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Fowr3j.jpg&hash=b11ffff36a11ffd1cf504537e1c4073c4aee014c)
Yeah, that is what I have done.
I followed Swamper77's tutorial on here but it evidently didn't work.
I've only done it on MAVE-6 but I can provide the file if necessary.
Quote from: jdenm8 on June 21, 2010, 09:21:34 PM
Yeah, that is what I have done.
I followed Swamper77's tutorial on here but it evidently didn't work.
I've only done it on MAVE-6 but I can provide the file if necessary.
One thing I've found--many times, you need to right-click on the rightmost pane with the exemplar properties and select "Reindex LotConfig" on the menu that pops up (should be the third item). The game requires that the LotConfig property IDs must go up sequentially in a T21 starting from 0x88EDC900, or else the T21 won't show up.
Quote from: superhands on June 21, 2010, 09:05:22 PM
Owr-3 can also make nice avenues ;D
As can some of the stuff planned for Version 2.0 . . . ::) ;D
-Alex
Am I doing this wrong or am I just missing something? Can't get a working OWR-2 to OWR-3 in that direction...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2F2n84ocm_th.png&hash=7682439566a31f43904ff69f82be8c2edef429c5) (http://i46.tinypic.com/2n84ocm.png)
(The northbound lane looks screwed up on this pic, it's fine, it's the southbound one that's causing problems)
Also, is it possible to do OWR-3 to MAVE-6 transitions? What about OWR-3 to RHW-6S (That's a stretch, but I'd love it!)?
Quote from: Tarkus on June 21, 2010, 11:24:44 PM
One thing I've found--many times, you need to right-click on the rightmost pane with the exemplar properties and select "Reindex LotConfig" on the menu that pops up (should be the third item). The game requires that the LotConfig property IDs must go up sequentially in a T21 starting from 0x88EDC900, or else the T21 won't show up.
Hm... I've done that already as per the tutorial.
Quote from: doorknob60 on June 22, 2010, 12:26:49 AM
Am I doing this wrong or am I just missing something? Can't get a working OWR-2 to OWR-3 in that direction...
It appears you may have placed the piece in the wrong direction. While the actual transition piece is pathed bi-directionally, the starter stubs only work one way. Make sure the arrow on the preview model is facing the direction you want the OWR to go when you place the piece.
Quote from: doorknob60 on June 22, 2010, 12:26:49 AM
Also, is it possible to do OWR-3 to MAVE-6 transitions? What about OWR-3 to RHW-6S (That's a stretch, but I'd love it!)?
They're not in the current version, but OWR-3-to-MAVE-6 is a definite for the next proper version (not the 1.0.3 bugfix). I'll see on the other one. ;)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on June 22, 2010, 12:52:01 AM
It appears you may have placed the piece in the wrong direction. While the actual transition piece is pathed bi-directionally, the starter stubs only work one way. Make sure the arrow on the preview model is facing the direction you want the OWR to go when you place the piece.
Okay, I thought it would be something like that, I think it's time I removed my "Remove All One Way Arrows" plugin (it's a very old one from the STEX) :P It causes a lot of issues like this :D
Quote from: Tarkus on June 22, 2010, 12:52:01 AM
They're not in the current version, but OWR-3-to-MAVE-6 is a definite for the next proper version (not the 1.0.3 bugfix). I'll see on the other one. ;)
Nice :) EDIT: While I'm on the topic, MAVE-6 to RHW-6C wouldn't be a bad idea either :P
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg84.imageshack.us%2Fimg84%2F379%2Fsurleymar7021277256960.jpg&hash=2f07c9bf9918952fad7f1c69dd68db2ca7091187)
I was messing around earlier, when a thought struck me. Is that possible? So, after messing around with starter pieces, i discovered it is. Automata drive across it and its UDI compatible.
-Jordan :thumbsup:
I have resized your picture as it was breaking the page. You can display the full-size picture by clicking on it. (CasperVg - 06/23/10 CET)EDIT: I have received a PM from Casper, saying he made a mistake. Image has been returned to the original.
You're a bit late, Jordan $%Grinno$% I discovered this a while ago :P
Ah, well, now everyone who didn't know before, knows now :P
this is the best mod I have ever used :thumbsup: &apls &apls ;D
well thanks ()stsfd() ;D
Hey,
Just wondering if the bigger roads like the MAVE-6 will be able to interchange with maxis highways in any future updates. Also, when will the TLA-7s be coming out?
hey... you know what would be awesome... a transition between OWR-4 into 2 OWR-2... and OWR-5 into OWR-2 + OWR-3
Quote from: sebs23 on June 24, 2010, 11:28:14 AM
Hey,
Just wondering if the bigger roads like the MAVE-6 will be able to interchange with maxis highways in any future updates. Also, when will the TLA-7s be coming out?
I hope so, and all the other NWM roads too. (3/4/5 lane one way roads with side ramps for the maxis highways.) ;D
MAVE6 to RHW6/MHW transitions would be great as well ;D
Quote from: el_cozu on June 24, 2010, 11:54:57 AM
hey... you know what would be awesome... a transition between OWR-4 into 2 OWR-2... and OWR-5 into OWR-2 + OWR-3
Ugh... If you had read previous posts you would have found transitions like this have been confirmed to be in development. Two or three times.
Quote from: io_bg on June 24, 2010, 01:25:05 PM
MAVE6 to RHW6/MHW transitions would be great as well ;D
I think RHW-6S might come in the forseeable future (I don't know, I'm not in the NAM team) on the virtue that it would be easier to create than a RHW-6C transition (RHW-6C is a three-tile network and RHW-6S is a two-tile network - To transfer to 6C, the network must gain another tile as per the RHW-6C to RHW-6S transition). MHW... might happen.
Quote from: sebs23 on June 24, 2010, 11:28:14 AM
Hey, ... Also, when will the TLA-7s be coming out?
The NAM team, as well as much of the SC4 community, doesn't announce release dates as a strict rule. This is mainly done for two reasons. Not setting a time-frame keeps pressure off the team for a release by a set date and it doesn't disappoint you when the date is set back if it needs to be.
All they say is
QuoteIt's coming
Just so you know...
I have uploaded some NWM Toll Booths. They're not perfect, but I was able to figure it out. Here's a link. http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24238 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24238)
I am not a fan of paying tolls, especially when you consider roads are not in the best condition despite toll increase in some places, but ignoring RL for a minute, a lot of people will finally get what they need from this for SC4. Your modding is appreciated, plus it mimicks the toll booths available for RHW, good choice using those modern models.
Quote from: Twinsfan14 on June 25, 2010, 09:40:36 AM
Just so you know...
I have uploaded some NWM Toll Booths. They're not perfect, but I was able to figure it out. Here's a link. http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24238 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24238)
Is there anyway you could do road top mass transit (bus/subway and bus) stops for NWM as well? I am surprised no one has released them yet.
Quote from: firefighter57 on June 25, 2010, 08:08:12 PM
Is there anyway you could do road top mass transit (bus/subway and bus) stops for NWM as well? I am surprised no one has released them yet.
That would fall under the RTMT team, as the NAM team does not do LOTs. As far as I recall, the RTMT team does have plans to cover the NWM, but that sort of thing will months to plan/create/test/release. Also, seeing as how recent the release of the NWM is, I think it's highly unfair to be expecting product already. You do realize that this work is all done in the spare time people feel they can devote to this game/community and we should be more than grateful that they feel the desire to do so, and also have the pride to make sure we get the best product they can provide.
Quote from: wes.janson on June 25, 2010, 10:40:31 PM
That would fall under the RTMT team, as the NAM team does not do LOTs. As far as I recall, the RTMT team does have plans to cover the NWM, but that sort of thing will months to plan/create/test/release. Also, seeing as how recent the release of the NWM is, I think it's highly unfair to be expecting product already. You do realize that this work is all done in the spare time people feel they can devote to this game/community and we should be more than grateful that they feel the desire to do so, and also have the pride to make sure we get the best product they can provide.
easy pal,
I was asking twinsfan since he already did it with the toll booths. I totally understand the guys on the NWM team have worked their asses off and did not expect them to even consider working on this.
Quote from: mrtnrln on June 26, 2010, 10:38:21 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg39.imageshack.us%2Fimg39%2F7198%2Fguilliano13aug135127427.png&hash=4473e02ef3e350b72043355cf3c0e93ffdcc563d)
mrtnrln in the TuLEP's board, has saved me from having to post my own pic :P Is there a plan to fix the missing part of the Ave-2 diagonal, in the upcomming patch?
-Matt
Quote from: MattyFo on June 26, 2010, 12:46:03 PM
Is there a plan to fix the missing part of the Ave-2 diagonal, in the upcomming patch?
-Matt
There is no missing part of the AVE-2 diagonal . . . unless you place a zone or plop a lot right next to one, in which case it'll cover up the overhanging network model.
-Alex
actually $%Grinno$% in the above instance, since the diagonal is only 1 tile it will be missing since the model has the 'bites' on the outside of the texture not the insides or on the curves.
and i guess the draggable s-curve would need the same attention. it didn't come to my attention at all when creating the 'bites'.
owr-3 however has the curve as a model and is a ok.
-dave
Alex,
Can you include an option in 2.0 to disable the "wealthification" feature we discussed weeks ago? (Or is that possible now?) Optimally, I'd like for it to just display generic, middle-class sidewalks by default since my computer is having the z-fighting issues with multiple textures that are dictated by surrounding wealth level and development.
Thanks,
Matt
Quote from: superhands on June 26, 2010, 08:20:28 PM
actually $%Grinno$% in the above instance, since the diagonal is only 1 tile it will be missing since the model has the 'bites' on the outside of the texture not the insides or on the curves.
and i guess the draggable s-curve would need the same attention. it didn't come to my attention at all when creating the 'bites'.
owr-3 however has the curve as a model and is a ok.
-dave
Somehow I never noticed that . . . probably because I use the wide-radius curves when possible. Should be easily to fix, though.
Quote from: yddot on June 29, 2010, 12:20:25 PM
Alex,
Can you include an option in 2.0 to disable the "wealthification" feature we discussed weeks ago? (Or is that possible now?) Optimally, I'd like for it to just display generic, middle-class sidewalks by default since my computer is having the z-fighting issues with multiple textures that are dictated by surrounding wealth level and development.
Thanks,
Matt
I have an idea of how to do that, though it'll take some experimentation to see if it works. It'll probably happen after the 1.0.3 bugfix release, though.
-Alex
Hello,
First, I'd like to thank you all who made the NWM! :)
I've been rebuilding roadways in my region, and I run the simulator after to see if everything's all right. There is one issue that caught my eye as I checked commute paths:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg444.imageshack.us%2Fimg444%2F17%2Fsector22.jpg&hash=3e4da49610bf68cd352f7dcac6494290fe7e1c2e)
I route-queried Zaldi Apartments, and the game drew the following paths. The pedestrian path goes off for about ~60 tiles and then comes back to continue along the street. The anomalous path occurs where the OWR-3 shifts one tile down. This issue happens when I query the other apartments that have pedestrians that go through that point. There are two other places with the same OWR-3 tile shift configuration to the right of this screenshot, and the pedestrian path issue happens in those places as well. It's not limited to the north sidewalk, but the south sidewalk as well.
I've looked through the thread, all the way back to page 65, and I don't think anyone else has reported this problem yet. The simulator has run for several years, so it's not like the paths haven't been updated.
Quote from: zdog720 on June 10, 2010, 11:40:37 PM
Is it possible to change the new NWM Avenues stoplights from this:
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3474/vn1.png
To These stoplights:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1760/img0019xs5.jpg
or like this:
http://yfrog.com/mostoplightj
Don't mind me asking, but where can I find a NWM texture like the one in this pic?
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1760/img0019xs5.jpg
Looks very, very nice.
Quote from: sumwonyuno on June 30, 2010, 03:56:20 AM
First, I'd like to thank you all who made the NWM! :)
You're most welcome! :)
Quote
I route-queried Zaldi Apartments, and the game drew the following paths. The pedestrian path goes off for about ~60 tiles and then comes back to continue along the street. The anomalous path occurs where the OWR-3 shifts one tile down.
I think I may know what's causing that. It's similar to something that happened with the FAR-to-Diagonal Transition awhile back, and it has to do with the path start/end coordinates. Should be relatively easy to fix, fortunately.
Quote from: XL2007 on June 30, 2010, 05:34:05 PM
Don't mind me asking, but where can I find a NWM texture like the one in this pic?
That's not an NWM texture . . . it's part of a non-functioning series of Lots.
-Alex
A quick question regarding traffic capacity. Is the capacity of these streets and avenues based directly on the tile width? To rephrase it, are all single tile width aves the same capacity, regardless of the number of lanes appearing in the cosmetic "skin"? You see, my experience with the RHW (an excellent piece of work, btw) is that highways like the RHW-8 and RHW-10 are identical in capacity which is set by the traffic simulator on a per tile width basis. So far, given this, I have not had particular reason to use the NWM as I am more interested in the traffic simulator aspect of the game as opposed to the look of things.
Obviously, the two tile OWR still has some pretty solid capacity for a single direction. If the roads and aves in the NWM are of different capacities, are they still identical to the underlying maxis street, road and aves? Would you be so kind as to detail the specific capacities (obviously dependent of the TCST setting).
Much thanks.
It basically operates on the same principles as the RHW. The 2-way networks are all Road-based, and capacities can be derived by multiplying the width (in number of tiles) by the capacity of the Road network for your particular Traffic Plugin. The dual-tile 2-way networks (TLA-5, MAVE-4, MAVE-6) should have the same capacity as the default Avenue network. The 1-way networks are One Way Road-based, and you can derive the capacity from Tile Width x OWR capacity.
Due to the crosspathing on the TLA networks and the multi-tile OWRs, the game actually considers all tiles of those networks to be intersections, and as such, they are also affected by the first value in the Intersection and Turn Effect property in the traffic simulator exemplar. The effect is reconciled in the current May 2010 NAM Traffic Plugin options and the TSCT, which all have that first value set to 1.0.
-Alex
I'm not sure if this question has been asked, but does using the NWM increase the capacity of the roads. For instance, if I have a road and traffic is terrible in one direction could I upgrade that road to an asymmetrical road to increase capacity in the necessary direction? Just curious because it requires less demolition and allows traffic to still flow in both directions. Thanks in advance!
Quote from: eclipticalstorm on July 03, 2010, 12:18:36 PM
I'm not sure if this question has been asked, but does using the NWM increase the capacity of the roads. For instance, if I have a road and traffic is terrible in one direction could I upgrade that road to an asymmetrical road to increase capacity in the necessary direction? Just curious because it requires less demolition and allows traffic to still flow in both directions. Thanks in advance!
No, actually, all the road-based networks that are one cell wide have the exact same capacity. SC4 calculates network capacity by the network's width in cells, as well as with properties of each of the Maxis networks that are defined in the traffic simulator. Since the two-way NWM networks are all based on the default road network, all NWM road-based networks that are the same width in cells have the same capacity. It would be nice if the number of lanes you see determined capacity, but no one has found a way to do that, and since the traffic simulator's fundamental properties are part of the .exe, I doubt it's at all possible to make that change.
Question:
Is it really important to remove the starter pieces?
I ask because after I apply the roads, the traffic gets wacky.
The commute arrows are all over the place and I get strange spots of red in the traffic diagram.
And I don't like that I the street have to a be a certain distance for the roads to work.
Here's a tip: You can demolish the non starter stub tile of the starter piece and leave just the stub tile, then draw road over it. Lets you do very short stretches of NWM, and you don't have a "solid tile" in the way.
Quote from: Blue Lightning on July 05, 2010, 04:45:16 AM
Here's a tip: You can demolish the non starter stub tile of the starter piece and leave just the stub tile, then draw road over it. Lets you do very short stretches of NWM, and you don't have a "solid tile" in the way.
Thanx. I still have some conflicts (i.e., I cant make opposite T intersection in some cases if you know what I mean).
It also seems that the NWM is an invitation for the cars and buses to flood the roads. Before I applied them. I didn't have a big problem w/ traffic. Just wanted to reduce the no job zots. Now I've placed them, I have more traffic than ever, hence a lot of red dots.
Mike1814: Unless I'm mistaken, you shouldn't be seeing any traffic problems with the NWM that you wouldn't have with maxis roads, avenues, and OWR. Commute times are determined by the tile size (1-tile networks vs. 2-tile networks) of the given network and whatever traffic simulator you use. Perhaps a different simulator would remedy your traffic woes.
I know some of you wanted traffic lights on OWR 4 or 5, that actually change red, there is a way to get this to work, at the moment I found out if you substitute half of AVE-4 or 6 and build with those intersections instead between the OWR, the lights actually work, because the intersection is read fully as road, not OWR, however I don't think there will be a individual piece like this made any time soon.
Quote from: j-dub on July 08, 2010, 09:29:01 AM
I know some of you wanted traffic lights on OWR 4 or 5, that actually change red, there is a way to get this to work, at the moment I found out if you substitute half of AVE-4 or 6 and build with those intersections instead between the OWR, the lights actually work, because the intersection is read fully as road, not OWR, however I don't think there will be a individual piece like this made any time soon.
Actually, what'll probably happen is TuLEPs intersections for OWRs. As we have more control over the underlying network on puzzle pieces, it would be possible to use them to trick the game into allowing proper signal functionality on those networks.
-Alex
The TULeP approach seems right to me. As Alex said, with puzzle pieces, we have more control over the intersections. This would be ideal. We finally may get some realistic OWR intersection setups.
Quote from: Tarkus on July 08, 2010, 09:38:07 AM
Actually, what'll probably happen is TuLEPs intersections for OWRs. As we have more control over the underlying network on puzzle pieces, it would be possible to use them to trick the game into allowing proper signal functionality on those networks.
-Alex
If that pans out, you'll have made my day again, Tarkus! I've always hated OWRs because of the lack of stop-paths!
Im not sure if this is the right place for this but I am having difficulties with the NWM everytime I go to plop a puzzle piece I get the message "##Intersection placement string missing##" im not sure why I read some forums that say that it may be an older version of NAM causing conflict however I have tried deleting every NAM file in my plugins and then re-downloaded NAM may 2010 and then the NWM but when I load the game and try building I get the same message "##Intersection placement string missing##" I also tried cleanitol but this hasn't been much success either. RHW and regular NAM pieces all work fine but not NWM I have been at this for the last 5hrs now so please if anyone can help me.
You've got some sort of outdated RUL-bound plugin sitting in your Plugins folder that is interfering with the NWM functionality. Remove it and everything should be okay.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 08, 2010, 11:52:57 PM
You've got some sort of outdated RUL-bound plugin sitting in your Plugins folder that is interfering with the NWM functionality. Remove it and everything should be okay.
-Alex
Im having extreme difficulties finding this RUL-bound plugin when I did a file search and used cleanitol it doesn't detect it also when I run the game in the highway icon it says that I have Network Addon Mod Controller version: r27u (July 18, 2009) I don't know why this is when I clearly deleted every NAM file that I had before I installed NAM May 2010 and the NWM could it be that I deleted the previous NAM without uninstalling it by clicking on the uninstall icon it its folder??
Quote from: Dethsrow on July 09, 2010, 07:49:27 AM
I run the game in the highway icon it says that I have Network Addon Mod Controller version: r27u (July 18, 2009)
The way the controller marker system is designed to work, it'll show the version of the last-loading Controller build (provided it has a marker--they were introduced in 2009) on the description. This confirms you have a conflict. Controller r27u was the controller that was released as part of the July 2009 NAM. The most up-to-date public release version is Controller r69 (15 May 2010).
r27u is likely sitting in a folder coming after Network Addon Mod in alphabetic order. If you've DatPacked your NAM in the past, the resultant Network Addon Mod.dat file in Plugins_compressed would be a culprit. Additionally, if you've left any backed-up old NAM files in there, there's a possibility is there.
-Alex
Quote from: cubby420 on July 06, 2010, 06:25:14 PM
Mike1814: Unless I'm mistaken, you shouldn't be seeing any traffic problems with the NWM that you wouldn't have with maxis roads, avenues, and OWR. Commute times are determined by the tile size (1-tile networks vs. 2-tile networks) of the given network and whatever traffic simulator you use. Perhaps a different simulator would remedy your traffic woes.
Well I am using the ultra simulator but it seems worse that the z ultra updates that was posted before NAM 2010.
Quote from: Mike1814 on July 09, 2010, 06:19:44 PM
Well I am using the ultra simulator but it seems worse that the z ultra updates that was posted before NAM 2010.
It would help to see an image of one of your congestion maps.
Also, it sounds like there is a possibility you may have some sort of conflicting Traffic Simulator file in your Plugins somewhere. This could include an old copy of a NAM Traffic Plugin. Additionally,
hailman's Variable Route Bus Plugin is actually a modified Maxis traffic simulator, and its settings are completely NWM-incompatible.
-Alex
I hit a weird bug - I dragged a road over a SAM cobblestone T intersection... and it turned the road into TLA-3.
Quote from: Kitsune on July 09, 2010, 09:12:09 PM
I hit a weird bug - I dragged a road over a SAM cobblestone T intersection... and it turned the road into TLA-3.
More than likely, there was a starter remnant somewhere in the vicinity there. I don't know the network trigger specs off my head, but more than likely, the "false intersection" design used to initiate the override is the same on the SAM Cobblestone Street and the TLA-3, just that one uses the Street network and the other uses Road. Dragging a Road over top would, in theory, create what you saw.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 09, 2010, 06:34:37 PM
It would help to see an image of one of your congestion maps.
Also, it sounds like there is a possibility you may have some sort of conflicting Traffic Simulator file in your Plugins somewhere. This could include an old copy of a NAM Traffic Plugin. Additionally, hailman's Variable Route Bus Plugin is actually a modified Maxis traffic simulator, and its settings are completely NWM-incompatible.
-Alex
Here this isn't the city I used the NWM on but this is just to make it point. I'll probably post this on the NAM 2010 support threat also. But this is a city I haven't played since I installed the new NAM, so it isn't affected.
It seems like my traffic has worsened since installing NAM 2010. I'm using simulator ultra, which is acting worse than the z updated before that new NAM.
Before NAM 2010:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg5.imageshack.us%2Fimg5%2F7198%2Fbefore1i.jpg&hash=4de4e82189a691c1cf702683f8bb6f9aabbadfe2)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg59.imageshack.us%2Fimg59%2F2474%2Fbefore2t.jpg&hash=e2e23d62573123a9de075fd0609462d5d3faf33e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg88.imageshack.us%2Fimg88%2F8886%2Fbefore3.jpg&hash=285656ff521d994b801f63d632088bc70a06543d)
After NAM 2010:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg210.imageshack.us%2Fimg210%2F8342%2Fafter1w.jpg&hash=f9ca7b883288f792b5a44e217060e76b49bd67c9)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg707.imageshack.us%2Fimg707%2F6405%2Fafter2ap.jpg&hash=25c19c73363990265f5f2d6a1fbfe03dced6cfee)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg717.imageshack.us%2Fimg717%2F6234%2Fafter3h.jpg&hash=207bad87cccb6e1e86bc87f59ec07013bdd55532)
Here are my files in the NAM folder:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F6438%2Ffilexb.jpg&hash=50c425de33ddd963a3ea796b287ba42f99723b5e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fi%2Ffilexb.jpg%2F&hash=cd06a95bf083126842b0a8b0ef99fccd385cca6d)
SN: This is on imageshack right now. I apologize if the images are too big. If this doesn't work I don't know what is the problem.
Mike1814, as of this moment of posting, all your pictures display a ?, and a requested URL can not be found when copying the link. You may need to reupload if that image host made your photos go down.
Quote from: j-dub on July 11, 2010, 09:25:17 PM
Mike1814, as of this moment of posting, all your pictures display a ?, and a requested URL can not be found when copying the link. You may need to reupload if that image host made your photos go down.
Fixed (for now at least, it wasn't like that a few hours ago)
Quote from: Mike1814 on July 11, 2010, 10:13:00 PM
Fixed (for now at least, it wasn't like that a few hours ago)
I still see the red X where the pictures are supposed to be.
Quote from: Monorail Master on July 12, 2010, 07:00:26 AM
I still see the red X where the pictures are supposed to be.
The images are working for me now. I can tell you that those single red cells you see on your networks are a normal feature of the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator, formerly Simulator Z. It was modified to reduce traffic capacity in the cells adjacent to an intersection, in order to properly simulate the slowdown effect on drivers stopping at the traffic lights.
I dont know if anybody is interested, but Im working on a complete pathing of intersections so this way the traffic dont disappears, only for personal use, but let me know what you think:
before:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg101.imageshack.us%2Fimg101%2F685%2Fbeforet.jpg&hash=4705a3002e5765fe99b02167a5a96acc174daf1a) (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/beforet.jpg/)
after:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg80.imageshack.us%2Fimg80%2F8189%2Fafterko.jpg&hash=cca39f3509b0ca3a8f72b69a5c49a96b3d03efbe) (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/afterko.jpg/)
It looks interesting, though I personally wouldn't want my sims making a left turn from a right lane, or a right turn from the left lave on a six lane avenue. In fact, I wouldn't want them doing that on any avenue, or OWR. I do like that you fixed the OWR terminating at AVE-6 missing paths for left lane bug, though. What you've done looks interesting though. I'd love to see more!
PS. I'll PM you later, when I have time, about this.
Yeah, I know that those turns are not realistic, but I preffer that to the disappearing cars bug.
Right now I have all the MAVE-6 and MAVE-4 paths done.
Cars will still disappear. Unless I am severely mistaken, cars disappearing has nothing to do with turn paths through intersection, but rather is just how Maxis set it up.
With my paths and the Persistent Automata Mod the cars only disappears when they reach their destination. Trust me, the game traffic looks really good this way :).
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 15, 2010, 10:04:27 AM
Cars will still disappear. Unless I am severely mistaken, cars disappearing has nothing to do with turn paths through intersection, but rather is just how Maxis set it up.
Exactly. The disappearing is the result of the Automata controller, not the pathing. Pathing only controls where the automata go. With those paths, you would more than likely end up with cars passing through each other like ghosts.
-Alex
The pathing also affect the automata, if the automata doesnt have a complete path to reach his destination the car will disappear. Trust me, Im telling you guys the truth, with that mod (the persistent automata) the cars only disappears when the paths on the roads are incomplete.
Well, Im almost done with my personal pathing for the NWM, the only paths left are for the maxis avenues... Can you guys tell me where can I find the files for this paths:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg829.imageshack.us%2Fimg829%2F9582%2Fpaths.th.jpg&hash=349922bc34f83b6a7ff16a9950c5bb97a452bf14) (http://img829.imageshack.us/i/paths.jpg/)
I cant find those... :'(
Thanks!!
Hi,
I was wondering about the 'problem' with the OWR5. I'm not sure if it is a problem or not but there are cars driving in the opposite dirrection. I remember somebody posting about this a while back. I was just wondering what caused it and if it would/will be fixed. Just wondering :thumbsup:
Quote from: kabal223 on July 18, 2010, 07:32:34 AM
Can you guys tell me where can I find the files for this paths:
If it's a Maxis intersection, the paths should be in SimCity_1.dat. You can use the Texture Viewer in ilive's Reader (or the Texture Scanner in SC4Tool) to aid in that process. The diagonal street one should be in the NetworkAddonMod_Diagonal_Streets_Plugin.dat in Network Addon Mod\Plugins.
Quote from: Jayster on July 18, 2010, 06:41:08 PM
Hi,
I was wondering about the 'problem' with the OWR5. I'm not sure if it is a problem or not but there are cars driving in the opposite dirrection. I remember somebody posting about this a while back. I was just wondering what caused it and if it would/will be fixed. Just wondering :thumbsup:
The OWR-5 thing is a side-effect of the cross-over paths, which allow traffic to switch between the two halves of the network. I've experimented with them some, but have not found a suitable solution to eliminate that effect yet.
-Alex
Interesting, a new mod for automatta? Even now though, when I had hooked a game camera onto a default Maxis Ford Explorer, it drove at least 47 tiles, maybe further, before disappearing at it's destination, it would be interesting to see how far more traffic can go, just don't allow that permanent ghost effect to happen when certain automatta disappear, I find it worse then a CTD, however I think even with persistent automatta, you still got the real traffic and the cars that are just generated someway or another, I think there is a difference in behavior, because I have seen crashes just because I put too many genrators in one spot.
Quote from: Tarkus on July 18, 2010, 07:24:21 PM
If it's a Maxis intersection, the paths should be in SimCity_1.dat. You can use the Texture Viewer in ilive's Reader (or the Texture Scanner in SC4Tool) to aid in that process. The diagonal street one should be in the NetworkAddonMod_Diagonal_Streets_Plugin.dat in Network Addon Mod\Plugins.
Thank you very much!
Later I will post some of the bugs I encountered in the NWM and a video showing the effect of the new paths in the automata.
Again, thanks for the help Tarkus!!
IDK if this is the right place for this, but will something like this be included in a future release of the NWM or NAM or RHW or TuLEPs or something?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi826.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz188%2FMntwinsfan14%2FUntitled.png&hash=edafeececa5f6c49ca0d0eda50bfc605307f4ce8)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi826.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz188%2FMntwinsfan14%2FUntitled-1.png&hash=b17af2f53ca4a7d78cadaa2f3fce99a9fd304b88)
The lower one already exists (RHW-6C to 2xRHW-4 and RHW-2), but the upper one (2xRHW-4 to 2xRHW-4 and RHW-2) does not. It can however be built on a four tile wide motorway using two inside ramps. It does take up more space, but it's the only way you can do it at the moment.
I noticed a problem a while back. With a "halfway" road x OWR-4 T intersection (road ends at T with OWR-4 but does not cross both tiles of the OWR), where cars can only make left turns onto and off of the road, cars are using the "wrong" lane for turning, as in cars turning left onto the OWR-4 will cross over into the left lane of the right-hand drive road and those turning onto the road from the OWR will turn into the left lane. They disappear after switching lanes, as it is with any network besides Maxis highway. I guess this could be sort of realistic, like a continuous flow intersection of sorts, if there were a TuLEP with markings telling cars to switch lanes. But for now it's more of a problem.
Also, I have experienced cars turning left onto an AVE-2 from a building. I'm not really that knowledgeable about paths, so it might be that there's no way to prevent this on a one-tile network; I'm not sure.
And in real life, at least where I reside, if the island in the avenue is not too deep, cars will cross over the island to go that other direction, not to mention the turning from the wrong lane is not so uncommon, but still frustrating having to deal with those people none the less.
Any fixes to allow for some sidewalk space? It's really awkward seeing no sidewalk in a city...
And traffic lights for normal OWR intersecting with NWM-OWR3 etc?
Quote from: Moonraker0 on July 24, 2010, 08:55:19 AM
I noticed a problem a while back. With a "halfway" road x OWR-4 T intersection (road ends at T with OWR-4 but does not cross both tiles of the OWR), where cars can only make left turns onto and off of the road, cars are using the "wrong" lane for turning, as in cars turning left onto the OWR-4 will cross over into the left lane of the right-hand drive road and those turning onto the road from the OWR will turn into the left lane. They disappear after switching lanes, as it is with any network besides Maxis highway. I guess this could be sort of realistic, like a continuous flow intersection of sorts, if there were a TuLEP with markings telling cars to switch lanes. But for now it's more of a problem.
If I'm following you correctly, it sounds like a crossover path situation. I'll have to take a look over that one . . .
Quote from: Moonraker0 on July 24, 2010, 08:55:19 AM
Also, I have experienced cars turning left onto an AVE-2 from a building. I'm not really that knowledgeable about paths, so it might be that there's no way to prevent this on a one-tile network; I'm not sure.
You're right, it's a limitation of the single-tile network. As far as the game is concerned as far as zone access, it's basically a road with the paths offset a little differently.
Quote from: herenthere on July 24, 2010, 03:39:24 PM
Any fixes to allow for some sidewalk space? It's really awkward seeing no sidewalk in a city...
And traffic lights for normal OWR intersecting with NWM-OWR3 etc?
There are sidewalks on all the networks, if you have zones sitting next to them. They are admittedly narrow on most of the single-tile networks, but if they were widened, it would throw off the proportions of the rest of the roadway. Not to mention that it would require a lot of textures and repathing. As such, I would not anticipate any change on that end.
As far as traffic lights on OWRs, the One-Way Road network does not provide proper support for stop points. The signals were purposely omitted from those networks for that reason, and because the "tidal flow" mechanism that Maxis used for determining the direction of an OWR cannot flip traffic signals, meaning you'd have signals facing the wrong direction.
That being said, if puzzle pieces along the lines of TuLEPs intersections are used, it is possible to use the network CheckType mechanisms to trick the game into allowing proper signal/stop point functionality with "directional awareness". Pieces of that sort are actually planned to be implemented sometime in the near future.
-Alex
There has been considerable demand for "One-Way Streets" (not Roads) for awhile now, and after some discussion with z, I'm looking at the possibility of converting the OWR-1 network over from an One Way Road-based override to a Street-based override to fill that need.
I had originally considered the possibility of going that route with the OWR-1 when it was on the drawing board, and it would effectively make a functional distinction between the OWR-1 and the other networks of its type.
The main hurdle would be re-coding the RULs for a Street override and making a few changes to the paths. As the IIDs will remain the same, and at least in theory, the pathing changes should not have any serious impact given the OWR network's "tidal flow" system, existing OWR-based OWR-1s should remain largely in tact. The main disadvantages are the lack of natural diagonals on the Street network, and that direction reversal would require rebuilding the network, as there would be no tidal flow. The lack of natural directional arrows on Street-based networks could be compensated for with T21-based arrows or "ghost arrows" (like on TuLEPs intersections), though.
I thought I would bring this idea to the NWM-using public to see what everyone thinks--feedback is most welcome. :)
-Alex
One-Way-Streets would be awesome, i have always wanted those as they would be more realistic in small towns or suburbs than OWRs. So in my opinion, they would be a great addition. :)
BTW, just read this (http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=NWM) wiki article of NWM, and it mentions this single-tile avenue called NMAVE-4. Is it still in plans? Also, it mentions some picture as a proof-of-concept, i would really like to see that picture (couldn't find it from google) just out of curiosity. :)
Quote from: Tarkus on July 27, 2010, 09:29:26 AM
the lack of natural diagonals on the Street network
This right here is a turn-off for me, unfortunately, unless diagonal OWR-1 puzzle pieces or some other method could be used to fill this gap. The OWR-1 as it is now has diagonal functionality, whereas the proposed OWS (One Way Street) might not from the sounds of things.
Even so, the idea for a OWS is a good one, and fills a gap of its own in SC4's transit system. There have been a number of times where I wanted an OWS, like near a school for example, but had to make do with an OWR because that's all I had. It would also be groundbreaking in that it would be the first new network to be based on the Street network, which would provide additional balance to the game.
:thumbsup:
Would this be an additional network, or would it permanently replace the OWR-1, which some may still wish to build?
Quote from: metarvo on July 27, 2010, 10:34:50 AM
This right here is a turn-off for me, unfortunately, unless diagonal OWR-1 puzzle pieces or some other method could be used to fill this gap. The OWR-1 as it is now has diagonal functionality, whereas the proposed OWS (One Way Street) might not from the sounds of things.
From what Alex has previously said to me, it should be possible to create diagonal versions of these that are much like the current diagonal streets without too much trouble, and this would be in the plan.
QuoteWould this be an additional network, or would it permanently replace the OWR-1, which some may still wish to build?
What Alex and I were discussing would be a replacement for the OWR-1, which so far does not seem to be heavily used. But if people want to keep the OWR-1, perhaps it would be possible to build an OWS-2? This would have the advantage that the capacity per lane would be identical to regular streets. Alex, how much additional work would building an OWS-2 from scratch take?
If an OWS-2 requires a lot more work than converting the OWR-1, then it may simply come down to the question: Which do people want more, an OWR-1 or an OWS-1?
Quote from: Ciuu96 on July 27, 2010, 10:24:18 AM
BTW, just read this (http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=NWM) wiki article of NWM, and it mentions this single-tile avenue called NMAVE-4. Is it still in plans? Also, it mentions some picture as a proof-of-concept, i would really like to see that picture (couldn't find it from google) just out of curiosity. :)
The NMAVE-4 is indeed still planned, though it's unknown when it'll actually be included in the NWM. The first proof-of-concept appeared in the T-RAM thread back in January 2009:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg120.imageshack.us%2Fimg120%2F94%2Fnwm012020091jd1.jpg&hash=139db94262b7096eef2b3c26b831c7ef8127faae)
It was retextured and given a transition to the Road network while Version 1.0 was in development--this image coming from page 61 of this thread:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Fnmave4a.jpg&hash=1a9d7c25e9c1168ae016d234f0422ec40cee6901)
Currently, much of the RULing is in place, and the base network pieces are as well. There are, however, no intersections right now.
Quote from: metarvo on July 27, 2010, 10:34:50 AM
This right here is a turn-off for me, unfortunately, unless diagonal OWR-1 puzzle pieces or some other method could be used to fill this gap. The OWR-1 as it is now has diagonal functionality, whereas the proposed OWS (One Way Street) might not from the sounds of things.
Quote from: z on July 27, 2010, 01:45:50 PM
From what Alex has previously said to me, it should be possible to create diagonal versions of these that are much like the current diagonal streets without too much trouble, and this would be in the plan.
Yes, that is correct--it's possible to override the Diagonal Streets Plugin functionality, just as was done with the Diagonal SAM.
Quote from: metarvo on July 27, 2010, 10:34:50 AM
Would this be an additional network, or would it permanently replace the OWR-1, which some may still wish to build?
That's the big question right now, and the decision on that will probably depend a large part on user feedback. Another question along those lines would be whether or not to continue expanding the OWR-1 network's functionality after the OWS arrives.
Quote from: metarvo on July 27, 2010, 10:34:50 AM
It would also be groundbreaking in that it would be the first new network to be based on the Street network
Well, on the grounds of Street-based overrides, it'd be the ninth, counting all the SAM variations. :D Though it'd be the first to do something different with the Street functionality. Interestingly, around the time the NWM project began, there was actually the idea of a "Stravenue" (a mythical dual-tile Street-based network) thrown around, too. Never made it off the drawing board, though the OWS would kind of fulfill that idea to an extent.
Quote from: metarvo on July 27, 2010, 10:34:50 AM
But if people want to keep the OWR-1, perhaps it would be possible to build an OWS-2? This would have the advantage that the capacity per lane would be identical to regular streets. Alex, how much additional work would building an OWS-2 from scratch take?
If an OWS-2 requires a lot more work than converting the OWR-1, then it may simply come down to the question: Which do people want more, an OWR-1 or an OWS-1?
If there's an OWR-1 and no OWS-1, I'm a little confused as to how an OWS-2 would fit into the whole functionality scheme, as it would have a lesser capacity than the OWR-1 but more lanes. That seems to go against the notion of functionally differentiating the 1-lane network from the 2-lane.
An OWS-2 would require a bit more work than an OWS-1 as well--everything that's needed for the OWS-1 except the RULs and part of the paths is essentially in place through the OWR-1.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 27, 2010, 09:29:26 AM
There has been considerable demand for "One-Way Streets" (not Roads) for awhile now, and after some discussion with z, I'm looking at the possibility of converting the OWR-1 network over from an One Way Road-based override to a Street-based override to fill that need.
The OWS-1 would be more realistic from a capacity standpoint. The current OWR-1 has the same capacity as the OWR-3, but an OWS-1 would have 40% of the capacity compared to OWR-3. Since it would look the same visually, I'd vote for conversion of OWR-1 to OWS-1 rather than maintaining both networks in the NWM. If you want the higher capacity, you can upgrade to OWR-3.
Well, when it's put that way, I vote for the OWS-1 to replace the OWR-1. The truth is that the capacity wouldn't be that high on a real OWR-1, anyway, so the OWS-1 seems to make more sense.
Random thought: Technically the default Road network would be seen as a "MAVE-2," right...?
And another thing: Would NWM filler pieces eventually be made, like what's been done with the RHW? I believe they could come in handy...
I also vote for OWS-1 to replace OWR-1, the capacity isn't currently very logical and OWS would certainly make much more sense. I also don't see so many uses for OWR as for other NWM-networks, i think OWS would be at same stage in usefulness with the other NWM-networks.
About the style of the (possible) OWS, could it be little more wider than the OWR-1? I mean, OWR looks just weird because there is only one small lane and huge sidewalks, it would look nicer if the lane would be a little bit wider. If the OWS will never be made, i would also think this as a good improvement for the current OWR.
Also thanks for the pictures and info about the NMAVE-4, it looks good! :)
QuoteAnd another thing: Would NWM filler pieces eventually be made, like what's been done with the RHW? I believe they could come in handy...
@GDO29Anagram: I got some good news for you right now. Let me give you a hint, you see the neighbor connection pieces in the NWM? They can be used just like that! I know one person has demonstrated their ability to use neighbor connection NWM pieces like fillers right next to TuLEPs for tight spots. I too, also use those NWM neighbor connection pieces for filler pieces.
As for OWS,
QuoteOWR looks just weird because there is only one small lane and huge sidewalks, it would look nicer if the lane would be a little bit wider. If the OWS will never be made, i would also think this as a good improvement for the current OWR.
When I have been on certain one way streets, they basically just take a two-way street and omit the one lane by making either one of the side's parking only, which could work for either case of OWR-1 or OWS.
Quote from: Tarkus on July 27, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
If there's an OWR-1 and no OWS-1, I'm a little confused as to how an OWS-2 would fit into the whole functionality scheme, as it would have a lesser capacity than the OWR-1 but more lanes. That seems to go against the notion of functionally differentiating the 1-lane network from the 2-lane.
It's true; basically we're running into the fundamental game limitations of the way capacity is based on the number of tiles, and not number of lanes. So the street capacity of OWS-2 would make sense when compared to other streets, but not when compared to OWR-1. On the other hand, if we do an OWS-1, then
Quote from: ScottFTL on July 27, 2010, 03:08:45 PM
The OWS-1 would be more realistic from a capacity standpoint. The current OWR-1 has the same capacity as the OWR-3, but an OWS-1 would have 40% of the capacity compared to OWR-3. Since it would look the same visually, I'd vote for conversion of OWR-1 to OWS-1 rather than maintaining both networks in the NWM. If you want the higher capacity, you can upgrade to OWR-3.
Took the words right out of my mouth...
And a very important point to consider is this:
Quote from: Tarkus on July 27, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
An OWS-2 would require a bit more work than an OWS-1 as well--everything that's needed for the OWS-1 except the RULs and part of the paths is essentially in place through the OWR-1.
We don't want you to do more work than necessary, Alex. $%Grinno$% And it appears that the availability of a diagonal OWS-1 has assuaged the worries of those who were hesitant about it. So at this point, I don't see any reason not to go that route (no pun intended), especially since it seems to have unanimous support so far. :)
When I first read the proposal this morning, I was against the OWS idea, but after several hours and a few comments from other people, it sounds like a much better idea. The capacity issue doesn't bother me much since it's a limitation we just have to deal with in SC4. But a single lane road looks a little weird on such a wide tile. With a planter strip and some t-21'd trees, it would look less awkward as a street-based network.
While using streets would be more realistic, I'm just hesitant about it.
And to 'Not that many people use OWR-1 anyway' comments, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not used.
For example:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg691.imageshack.us%2Fimg691%2F9958%2Fgunning8sep104127607757.png&hash=394c55e223f8f61c9f575d2a0f5e349f55f58564)
Also, some networks, like AVE-2, could use T21s too. I have tried this myself (with disastrous results) because it just looks plain weird. Maybe some young trees and double streetlights in the median?
Although, If we went down the street path, we could have proper draggable transitions then.
I use OWR-1 often in w2w "older" areas of my cities as kind of alleys, it works well, and looks good. but i think as a street based network it might be better for this, although i didnt read it all (dont have time, i will tomorrow) so i dont really know what the difference between the current OWR based variant and the street based one
I'd also vote for replacement of OWR-1's with OWS-1's.
I haven't had much of a chance to play with 1-lane networks but look forward to doing so when I can get around to it. Seems like it'd be cool for an old-world city center using something like Glenni's OWR-1 W2W stuff on Simtrop.
While I'm posting, a couple requests:
NWM/T-RAM integration
Elevated NWM/TuLeps
OWR-3/RHW-6 transition
Thanks for everything :thumbsup:
Whilst this sounds like a good idea, what will happen with regards to regular streets that cross the OWS-1 network? Will any street that touches it turn in to a one way street, like what happens with the SAM mod when you attempt to join any different variations together? If this is the case, I am strongly against the idea as it be practically useless in a city environment.
BTW that NMAVE-4 looks great, keep up the great work Tarkus - I hope it makes its way into the next version
I'm still on the fence about this.
The only way I will vote 'Yes' for the OWR-1 to be changed to OWS-1 if the textures stay the same, it can transition to OWR-2, and if it has better diagonal functionality than the current street network. In other words it will be able to be dragged out diagonally more than one tile at a time.
I like the idea of this because having a one lane network being a street network causes it to have a lower capacity and that makes it more realistic. It's better than having a 3-Lane network be the same capacity as a 1-Lane network.
A few requests:
➔A Non-Puzzle Piece transitions (like RHW MIS to OWR-2) from MAVE-4 to OWR-2 and from MAVE-6 to OWR-3
➔NWM TuLEPs
well the diagonals are never gunna happen on street networks,thats hard coded iirc. This is a major drawback for me too,i hate drawing diagonals one tile at a time, but its better than not having them at all :p
Heck no is all I have to say! I love the OWR-1. As a matter of fact, I wish it could be expanded to have one lane of traffic and parking on either side of the one lane. I think that would look sick and be very realistic (at least for those of us who love to model cities after NY)
Quote from: firefighter57 on July 28, 2010, 10:45:39 AM
As a matter of fact, I wish it could be expanded to have one lane of traffic and parking on either side of the one lane.
I personally love the idea. I'm still on the fence until I find out weather or not the textures will be changes to look more the street textures because if they are, than I'm totally against the idea. But other than that, I'm totally for the idea of the switch form ORW-1 to OWS-1.
Quote from: firefighter57 on July 28, 2010, 10:45:39 AM
Heck no is all I have to say! I love the OWR-1.
If you don't mind me asking, why are you against the idea of switching from OWR-1 to OWS-1? Maybe we can improve upon the idea to make it suit your needs.
Quote from: travismking on July 28, 2010, 09:49:30 AM
well the diagonals are never gunna happen on street networks,thats hard coded iirc. This is a major drawback for me too,i hate drawing diagonals one tile at a time, but its better than not having them at all :p
It's worth recalling the current capabilities of diagonal streets, which would be extended to OWS-1. They come in 5, 3, and one-tile lengths, along with a diagonal street puzzle piece, and diagonal to straight street transition pieces. So you can do plop, plop, plop, and end up with 15 tiles of diagonal street. (they connect automatically when you line them up.) You can also bulldoze it a half tile at a time without wrecking the rest of it. All in all, they're much easier to use than standard puzzle pieces.
The notion is worth further thought and -yes, it would fill a particular demand, hopefully its a simple thing to do that won't take a great amount of time to implement... :-\
...I'd also like one ways that would act as alleyways... &idea
...and I'd also like it that something can be worked out for downtown, and other city places for road side parallel and angle parking and still have RCI function -even if the parking is just eye candy as it is in the JRJ mod &Thk/(
We would suggest to use both version. This would give individuals a choice. (Ironic coming from us ()borg() :) )
Quote from: Tarkus on June 09, 2010, 01:10:12 PM
[...]
Are you talking about getting rid of OWR arrows on the NWM One-Way networks? Tropod's old OWR Arrow Removal plugin on the STEX, which can be found here (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=21371) should do the trick. Make sure it's loading after the NWM and NAM, though.
-Alex
I already installed the mentioned Mod - however: the arrows still appear.
Sorry if this has been asked so often before (?) but I've already used the search bar which only gave me the above hint - it still doesn't work though...
So: How should I continue? Any way to remove all arrows on the NWM networks?
Any help would be appreciated :thumbsup:
Fabian
Quote from: Fabian93 on July 29, 2010, 12:50:09 PM
I already installed the mentioned Mod - however: the arrows still appear.
Did you install it in a folder under Plugins that starts with my name? :)
Of course I did ;):
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ_NoOneWayRoadArrows
Yet it doesn'T seem to work?!
Fabian
From my experience, cosmetic plugins such as arrow removal have required redrawing networks. However, if two OWR removal plugins exist in the same folder, that should cause some undesired results.
Quote from: firefighter57 on July 28, 2010, 10:45:39 AM
Heck no is all I have to say! I love the OWR-1. As a matter of fact, I wish it could be expanded to have one lane of traffic and parking on either side of the one lane. I think that would look sick and be very realistic (at least for those of us who love to model cities after NY)
Somethin like this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi826.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz188%2FMntwinsfan14%2FUntitled-3.png&hash=8add59ea4a0e8904a17057f856836ccc7716d3ba)
And a request. I know that Avenue / MIS exits are coming soon, but how about Avenue / OWR-1 exits?
Like this.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi826.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz188%2FMntwinsfan14%2FUntitled-2.png&hash=09ac2fbf0bf49746c7d6e35107b312c6ca67dcc7)
Quote from: Twinsfan14 on July 29, 2010, 05:59:01 PM
Somethin like this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi826.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz188%2FMntwinsfan14%2FUntitled-3.png&hash=8add59ea4a0e8904a17057f856836ccc7716d3ba)
And a request. I know that Avenue / MIS exits are coming soon, but how about Avenue / OWR-1 exits?
Like this.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi826.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz188%2FMntwinsfan14%2FUntitled-2.png&hash=09ac2fbf0bf49746c7d6e35107b312c6ca67dcc7)
Yeah like that or even have parallel spots on either side like (P R P) [P is parking and R is road].
The one way road with parking spots is an awesome idea. I'd love to have this.
I really don't see the benefit of one way streets. ???
Quote from: RickD on July 30, 2010, 01:32:52 AM
I really don't see the benefit of one way streets. ???
On one hand, they're very common in dense urban centers. But also, as ScottFTL pointed out earlier, an OWR-1 has the same capacity (and speed limit) as an OWR-3; this means that an OWR-1 carries 50% more traffic at a 50% higher speed than a standard two-way road that has twice the lanes. This doesn't really make much sense, but the Sims will take advantage of this, and may create unexpected (and otherwise unexplainable) traffic patterns. On the other hand, one-way streets would have the same capacity and speed as two-way streets, so anomalous traffic patterns won't arise in that case.
TBH, i like OWR1 the way it is now but thats just my opinion. To me it seems like streets are ... annoying, especially to get good diagonals and especially diagonal intersections (which the NWM doesnt support at all (yet??))
I did something you may like folks.....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg42.imageshack.us%2Fimg42%2F7382%2Fzinedinecityjul13111280.png&hash=526ea23a3c772f2d118f22aec9c000594e958542)
Can you tell me what different about this "OWR-5"? ;D
Quote from: Fresh Prince of SC4D on July 30, 2010, 02:28:00 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg42.imageshack.us%2Fimg42%2F7382%2Fzinedinecityjul13111280.png&hash=526ea23a3c772f2d118f22aec9c000594e958542)
???
I did that once before, but not with traffic on it; I don't think you should do that... I honestly don't know what'll happen if you do that...
You just turned an OWR-5 into two conjoined OWR 2
1/
2 's going in opposing directions.
EDIT: Or are you pointing out the arrows, cuz those are different from what I have...
QuoteYou just turned an OWR-5 into two conjoined OWR 2 1/2 's going in opposing directions.
Kinda, I was trying to create a avenue with a reversible lane (ave-r).
For anyone who doesn't know what a reversible lane is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_lane
What i did was:
1) drag a section of owr-5; destroy the inner lanes (outer lanes for LHD)
2) drag another owr-5 in the opposite direction on the same rows of tile as the first; destroy the inner lanes this section (outer lanes for LHD)
3) drag the two sections in the direction of their traffic flow, joining them together creating a "reversible lane" in the center
As for any problems, I didn't have any that I could observe. I try to build commercial/residential zone on each end and the sims used it like any other road. But I never checked the pathing....
It's really a cool feature, being able to combine the NWM networks like this. I haven't thought much about doing like this, but I had to check the pathing when I saw this.
Result below:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi705.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww55%2Fanonymson%2Fowr45_pathing.jpg&hash=0b5175e4541f8a2e8ab1cfc2a1612f1454b99522)
EDIT:
I checked pathing for intersections as well, and thru-traffic and right turns are allowed and functions. No left turns though.
- riiga
Quote from: Fresh Prince of SC4D on July 30, 2010, 03:11:41 PM
Kinda, I was trying to create a avenue with a reversible lane (ave-r).
Interesting . . . we had actually considered the idea of reversible lanes at one point for the NWM . . . a "REV-3", but on a single-tile setup, which there wasn't really any way to get quite right. I knew the tidal flow could allow something like this from
jplumbley's experiments back in 2006 when we were starting the project . . . I'm curious to mess around with this a little more with respect to reversible lane functionality to see how feasible a 2-tiler would be. The one potential issue I see with the current situation is that the way the OWR-5s are pathed, they'll still technically have traffic in both directions in the middle, and I don't know if there's really a way around doing something like that. I'll see what I can do, though.
-Alex
Quote from: Fresh Prince of SC4D on July 30, 2010, 03:11:41 PM
Kinda, I was trying to create a avenue with a reversible lane (ave-r).
Interesting. I once wondered about how those would work in SC4, and I thought it would be a mess...
Quote from: Tarkus on July 30, 2010, 03:50:26 PM
Interesting . . . we had actually considered the idea of reversible lanes at one point for the NWM . . . a "REV-3", but on a single-tile setup, which there wasn't really any way to get quite right.
Yep. Just as I thought. A mess.
Quote from: Tarkus on July 30, 2010, 03:50:26 PM
I knew the tidal flow could allow something like this from jplumbley's experiments back in 2006 when we were starting the project . . . I'm curious to mess around with this a little more with respect to reversible lane functionality to see how feasible a 2-tiler would be.
I wonder how that would look like... ;D
Speaking of the issue of capacity differentiation with regards to NWM networks, I have something interesting to share here . . .
Here's a MAVE-4 transitioning into a MAVE-6 with the Congestion DataView on. I'm using the "Medium" version of the NAM simulator here, in which Road (and thus, per-tile capacity for MAVEs) is 4000. As you'll notice, the MAVE-4 shows up orange, while the MAVE-6 is merely yellow.
The Morning Commute volume the MAVE-4 tile is 9139.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg195.imageshack.us%2Fimg195%2F6206%2Fnwm073120101.jpg&hash=ef27b4227fad85ee93b1c667ff916b7779560ca4)
And the volume on the MAVE-6 is just a tiny bit smaller.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg213.imageshack.us%2Fimg213%2F929%2Fnwm073120102.jpg&hash=6f51bba8845d8de1b1a9b8d771ae18c9a771b2bf)
Why then, is the MAVE-6 appear to be so much less congested than the MAVE-4? They're supposed to have the same capacity, right?
Well . . . suffice to say, I've managed to trick the game into giving the MAVE-6 a higher capacity/speed, without really altering how it works. And the even better news is that the technique I used can be applied to the ARD-3 and OWR-3--and in the near future, will. It also works for the RHW-6S and can be used on TuLEPs, making them all more useful from a functional gameplay perspective.
-Alex
Will it require redrawing the roads in question, or will it work retroactively?
It shouldn't, because its a simulator edit, I have changed my simulators many times before, and any change in speed, traffic capacity and commute time, were all delt with from the simulator.
thats awesome... can the OWR-1 be "downgraded" so that you dont have to make it OWS instead? cuz that would be even more awesome ;p
Quote from: jgehrts on July 31, 2010, 09:17:50 PM
Will it require redrawing the roads in question, or will it work retroactively?
It will work retroactively and automatically. It's actually part-simulator edit and part-trick pathing.
Quote from: travismking on July 31, 2010, 09:46:47 PM
thats awesome... can the OWR-1 be "downgraded" so that you dont have to make it OWS instead? cuz that would be even more awesome ;p
Thanks! As far as the OWR-1 goes, unfortunately, the limitations of the technique don't allow a downgrade of that sort.
-Alex
Is there plans or an example of a ARD-5 or ARD-7?
Quote from: santoan on July 31, 2010, 11:15:42 PM
Is there plans or an example of a ARD-5 or ARD-7?
An "ARD-5" . . . or MAVE-5, as it is "officially" termed . . . is technically possible with a little trickery in the current version. A dedicated starter piece is planned for a future release.
There are currently no plans for MAVE/ARD-type networks beyond the MAVE-6, however.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 31, 2010, 08:09:54 PM
Well . . . suffice to say, I've managed to trick the game into giving the MAVE-6 a higher capacity/speed, without really altering how it works. And the even better news is that the technique I used can be applied to the ARD-3 and OWR-3--and in the near future, will. It also works for the RHW-6S and can be used on TuLEPs, making them all more useful from a functional gameplay perspective.
-Alex
Okay, that is 100% COOL! You guys rock in ways that cannot be described!
you, sir, are AWESOME!!!!! <3
Joe
This is great news that extra lanes will have a functional effect and won't just be cosmetic.
Wow, that's a pretty major step forward Alex, thanks! &hlp
Did you make some kind of intersection pathing that doesn't go anywhere? Curious to know how you snuck this guy in. Sounds like this could effectively solve almost all of the capacity differentiation issues, with the exception of OWR-1 (seems likely to be resolved by conversion to OWS-1) and MIS being lower in capacity than single-tile RHW.
So, I should now be able to relieve traffic on my avenues by upgrading to MAVE-6. This is just what I wanted to hear. Good work, Alex! :thumbsup: This game continues to get better and better all the time!
&apls
The capacity fix is great, i have currently many avenues with high congestion which i cannot upgrade to highway because of zoning and which some already have GLR there, so upgrading to MAVE-6 with bigger capacity would be great! (long sentece ;D)
Care to explain how you did it? :)
Wow! That's great news, Alex! &apls Will this also be able to be applied to the ARD?
Thanks for all the kind words--I'm glad to see the idea has been well-received! :thumbsup:
Now to answer a few questions:
Quote from: noahclem on August 01, 2010, 04:10:43 AM
Did you make some kind of intersection pathing that doesn't go anywhere? Curious to know how you snuck this guy in. Sounds like this could effectively solve almost all of the capacity differentiation issues, with the exception of OWR-1 (seems likely to be resolved by conversion to OWS-1) and MIS being lower in capacity than single-tile RHW.
Yes, essentially. I've used something I've termed DIPs . . . "Distilled Intersection Paths", which trick the game into thinking the tile is an intersection without really disrupting the network.
As far as the RHW end of things, I had been considering it for RHW-4/6S differentiation rather than MIS/RHW-4, though that's an interesting idea.
Quote from: Nego on August 01, 2010, 11:07:26 AM
Will this also be able to be applied to the ARD?
Yes. The technique is planned to be employed on the MAVE-6, ARD-3 and OWR-3. A side-effect of its implementation will also increase the capacity on the TLA networks and anything with a crossover path--e.g. the OWR-4 and OWR-5, which can't be differentiated, unfortunately.
-Alex
Wow Tarkus.
With this new function "meaningless" eye-candy can be given a functional meaning.
As for tidal flow, will you guys consider including it in RHW? And if so will the time of day effect the tidal flow?
--Nick
Quote from: citybuilderx on August 01, 2010, 12:56:17 PM
As for tidal flow, will you guys consider including it in RHW? And if so will the time of day effect the tidal flow?
The "tidal flow" on the OWRs is hardcoded as part of that network, so it can't be applied elsewhere. And unfortunately, it also requires the user to flip the direction themselves--there's no known way of setting paths up to be time-sensitive.
-Alex
Excellent on the MAVE-5 Tarkus. :thumbsup: &apls You know what would be good for the next Nam release, A TLA-7 to RHW-6C transition
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imageshack.us%2Fimg840%2F8797%2F67request.jpg&hash=688cb21f1dfdfba4e2cd063ea043ab2198d82a59)
Quote from: TJ1 on August 01, 2010, 03:50:32 PM
Excellent on the MAVE-5 Tarkus. :thumbsup: &apls You know what would be good for the next Nam release, A TLA-7 to RHW-6C transition
They've talked about TuLEPs for the RHW, although I don't know if anything above 4-lanes will have turn lanes initially. I recall seeing a testing pic in either the TuLEP thread or the RHW thread fairly recently.
Quote from: TJ1 on August 01, 2010, 03:50:32 PM
You know what would be good for the next Nam release, A TLA-7 to RHW-6C transition
Planned, yes. Next release, not certain. I can, however, confirm that the TLA-7 is in fact back in development.
Quote from: jgehrts on August 01, 2010, 04:54:00 PM
They've talked about TuLEPs for the RHW, although I don't know if anything above 4-lanes will have turn lanes initially. I recall seeing a testing pic in either the TuLEP thread or the RHW thread fairly recently.
Yes, the MIS Ramps, RHW-2 and RHW-4 will all be getting TuLEPs. The wider ones will not, aside from the cosmetic pieces with the arrows, which are kind of TuLEP-y in conception. :D
Would asking about possible NMW roundabouts push the subject too far? (for the larger pieces; anyone can make a one-way roundabout for AVE-2 intersections.
Development pics of the RHW TuLEPs (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=990.msg331168#msg331168)*
*Scroll down in the post for the pictures.
I can't remember if this has been asked and answered already, but will there be TuLEPs for the NWM? I know the existing ones work with the ARD-3, AVE-2, and TLA-3, but what about networks like the TLA-5, OWR-3/4/5, and the MAVE-4/6? Are they planed and/or in development?
Quote from: Nego on August 01, 2010, 06:01:22 PM
I can't remember if this has been asked and answered already, but will there be TuLEPs for the NWM? I know the existing ones work with the ARD-3, AVE-2, and TLA-3, but what about networks like the TLA-5, OWR-3/4/5, and the MAVE-4/6? Are they planed and/or in development?
The existing Avenue ones work on the TLA-5 already--they were dual-CheckTyped. :) Just about all the future Avenue TuLEPs will have the same ability. TuLEPs for the various MAVEs and OWRs are planned as well.
-Alex
Going a step further with the TuLEPs-NWM interaction, I wonder if TuLEPs might be a viable solution for diagonal NWM intersections, particularly those on the wider NWM networks? Of course, I'm getting ahead of things here, but I just thought I would put the idea out there.
Quote from: metarvo on August 01, 2010, 06:47:14 PM
Going a step further with the TuLEPs-NWM interaction, I wonder if TuLEPs might be a viable solution for diagonal NWM intersections, particularly those on the wider NWM networks? Of course, I'm getting ahead of things here, but I just thought I would put the idea out there.
Diagonal-Diagonal, most definitely. Some of the others may be prime candidates for that approach as well, I'd say.
-Alex
it seems like most of the tools related to the NAM could use many more diagonal features, tram road/avenue, RHW, NWM, TuLeps all need better diagonal support, which may not exactly be possible, and im sure its a TON of work. Im just glad we have what we have now, or I woulda lost interest in this game 6 years ago :p
I'm just wondering...are there going to be elevated puzzle pieces for the NWM? But some will ask about the bridges part, could you for the OWR-1 bridge take the plain or raised OWR-2 bridge adjust the paths and textures to fit OWR-1?
Tarkus, for srunken highways will there be turning lane pieces for the bridges and new NAM side exit ramps for OWR-3,4, and 5? Here's what im talking about from my hometown of Chicago.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=srunken%20h
Do you mean pieces like this?:
Quote
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg194.imageshack.us%2Fimg194%2F9983%2Ftulep081720091.jpg&hash=f7f4a8c9c030c23cb8c7a2782efd07f3cdc9fba3)
I'm not so sure what exactly you mean, though, because your link to Google Maps doesn't work. &mmm
Quote from: travismking on August 01, 2010, 07:41:41 PM
it seems like most of the tools related to the NAM could use many more diagonal features, tram road/avenue, RHW, NWM, TuLeps all need better diagonal support, which may not exactly be possible, and im sure its a TON of work.
That sums it up pretty well, I'd say. Diagonals are tricky little devils, sometimes, particularly when you're having to stretch the game's capabilities out.
Quote from: Monorail Master on August 02, 2010, 10:52:30 AM
I'm just wondering...are there going to be elevated puzzle pieces for the NWM? But some will ask about the bridges part, could you for the OWR-1 bridge take the plain or raised OWR-2 bridge adjust the paths and textures to fit OWR-1?
Elevated NWM networks are planned for future inclusion--the main issue is having models, though I may be able to repurpose the ERHW ones with some minor modification. The TLAs won't be getting their own elevated pieces, as having center turn lanes into guardrails would be . . . [Vulcan] highly illogical. [/Vulcan].
Quote from: Opkl on August 02, 2010, 02:28:35 PM
Tarkus, for srunken highways will there be turning lane pieces for the bridges and new NAM side exit ramps for OWR-3,4, and 5? Here's what im talking about from my hometown of Chicago.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=srunken%20h
Your link, unfortunately, doesn't seem to work. Guessing from the sounds of your post, I'm guessing the "turning lane pieces for the bridges" are Elevated TuLEPs--those are definitely planned, as shown in the image
Nego quoted. The last part I don't quite understand--are you referring to Elevated NWM networks? Maxis Highway/NWM Network interchanges?
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 02, 2010, 02:58:55 PM
That sums it up pretty well, I'd say. Diagonals are tricky little devils, sometimes, particularly when you're having to stretch the game's capabilities out.
Elevated NWM networks are planned for future inclusion--the main issue is having models, though I may be able to repurpose the ERHW ones with some minor modification. The TLAs won't be getting their own elevated pieces, as having center turn lanes into guardrails would be . . . [Vulcan] highly illogical. [/Vulcan].
Your link, unfortunately, doesn't seem to work. Guessing from the sounds of your post, I'm guessing the "turning lane pieces for the bridges" are Elevated TuLEPs--those are definitely planned, as shown in the image Nego quoted. The last part I don't quite understanding--are you referring to Elevated NWM networks? Maxis Highway/NWM Network interchanges?
-Alex
The pic Nego showed was what I was talking about for the elevated TuLEPs. However, will those work over srunken networks? For the part you guys got confused on, I was asking if there would be new OWR-3,4, and 5 side exit ramps to/from a srunken highway like what we have with the 2 lane OWR. Since the link didn't work go to google maps and search 76th and State Street Chicago,IL. Zoom in and use the street view guy to look on State Street between 75th and 71st.
Well, you'd be able to cross a sunken highway with an on-slope and elevated pieces . . . the ramp thing you've suggested is a possibility . . . it'll more likely be set up for RHW before anything happened on the Maxis Highway end, though.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 02, 2010, 04:07:36 PM
Well, you'd be able to cross a sunken highway with an on-slope and elevated pieces . . . the ramp thing you've suggested is a possibility . . . it'll more likely be set up for RHW before anything happened on the Maxis Highway end, though.
-Alex
So the on-slope pieces will have turning lanes right? As for the ramps I ment Single-Sided Parallel Ramps Ground Highway OWR. Will those pieces be able to have OWR-3,4, and 5? I'll post a pic but I don't know how.
(http://sunkenwallsimage1__13.jpg)
Quote from: Opkl on August 02, 2010, 04:36:54 PM
So the on-slope pieces will have turning lanes right? As for the ramps I ment Single-Sided Parallel Ramps Ground Highway OWR. Will those pieces be able to have OWR-3,4, and 5? I'll post a pic but I don't know how.
On-Slope turn lanes will be a bit tricky, as the number of pieces could multiply quite quickly. It's likely they'll exist, but have to be arrow-less to keep things from getting overloaded.
Thanks for clarifying the ramp thing, too--makes sense now. :) I'll look into that, but Maxis Highways are generally a low priority now, so it may be awhile.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 02, 2010, 04:53:15 PM
On-Slope turn lanes will be a bit tricky, as the number of pieces could multiply quite quickly. It's likely they'll exist, but have to be arrow-less to keep things from getting overloaded.
Thanks for clarifying the ramp thing, too--makes sense now. :) I'll look into that, but Maxis Highways are generally a low priority now, so it may be awhile.
-Alex
Oh good. So when you say "overloaded" that means there are too many textures in one place? As for the ramps I can't wait. You and everyone involed have done such a great job over the years. Thanks :D
Im sorry If this question has been repeated but dows the NWM mean higher capacity?
Quote from: chrisnhl on August 04, 2010, 01:50:10 PM
Im sorry If this question has been repeated but dows the NWM mean higher capacity?
atm no it does not its purely cosmetic, but read back a few pages, it seems tarkus may have found a way to allow additional capacity on SOME NWM + RHW networks
Also, the base capacity is per-tile. Networks two tiles wide have twice the capacity of single-tile networks of the same type. The width of each NWM type is listed in the first post on each page.
This is all before Alex's recent discovery, of course.
Quote from: z on August 04, 2010, 02:14:41 PM
Also, the base capacity is per-tile. Networks two tiles wide have twice the capacity of single-tile networks of the same type. The width of each NWM type is listed in the first post on each page.
This is all before Alex's recent discovery, of course.
So is his discovery ready for download yet or is it in the next release?
its not available yet, he just discovered it a few days ago needs tested etc... :p
Quote from: Nego on August 02, 2010, 02:55:47 PM
Do you mean pieces like this?:
I'm not so sure what exactly you mean, though, because your link to Google Maps doesn't work. &mmm
Yes!!!! I did mean that.
Quote from: Tarkus on August 02, 2010, 02:58:55 PM
That sums it up pretty well, I'd say. Diagonals are tricky little devils, sometimes, particularly when you're having to stretch the game's capabilities out.
Elevated NWM networks are planned for future inclusion--the main issue is having models, though I may be able to repurpose the ERHW ones with some minor modification. The TLAs won't be getting their own elevated pieces, as having center turn lanes into guardrails would be . . . [Vulcan] highly illogical. [/Vulcan].
Your link, unfortunately, doesn't seem to work. Guessing from the sounds of your post, I'm guessing the "turning lane pieces for the bridges" are Elevated TuLEPs--those are definitely planned, as shown in the image Nego quoted. The last part I don't quite understanding--are you referring to Elevated NWM networks? Maxis Highway/NWM Network interchanges?
-Alex
Well, guess we have to be patient then.
-Matthew
Excuse me,I find a bug in my NWM
When I use Drive-it and I drove in my created NWM and the vehicle disappear
What is he cause of this problem ! :'(
Quote from: Vanilla9823 on August 07, 2010, 05:52:38 AM
Excuse me,I find a bug in my NWM
When I use Drive-it and I drove in my created NWM and the vehicle disappear
What is he cause of this problem ! :'(
We recommend that if you're using U-Drive-It with the NWM, hit the "Shift" key on your keyboard so that your "Snap To Lanes" feature is turned off.
Quote from: Vanilla9823 on August 07, 2010, 05:52:38 AM
Excuse me,I find a bug in my NWM
When I use Drive-it and I drove in my created NWM and the vehicle disappear
What is he cause of this problem ! :'(
On the TLA-5 at least, if you keep the car in the right lane until you reach an intersection, you can avoid most of the trouble. On a TLA-3, you will have to leave 'snap to roads' off.
This may have been reported, but when running an OWR under an ingame elevated highway, the tile the ramps connect to change to an OWR-2 (in game OWR) piece.
Quote from: MutantPlatypus on August 07, 2010, 12:53:05 PM
This may have been reported, but when running an OWR under an ingame elevated highway, the tile the ramps connect to change to an OWR-2 (in game OWR) piece.
Yes, that's a result of the game's AutoPlace mechanism--there's no real way around that.
-Alex
another problem
no automata(s) driving in my NWM
Quote from: Vanilla9823 on August 07, 2010, 04:49:20 PM
another problem
no automata(s) driving in my NWM
There could be a number of explanations for that. It could possibly be a Right Hand Drive/Left Hand Drive issue, you could have an incompatible Traffic Plugin installed, or have the network designed such that it won't function. An image of the setup and some more specifics would help with diagnosis.
Quote from: Opkl on August 04, 2010, 09:18:22 PM
So is his discovery ready for download yet or is it in the next release?
Quote from: travismking on August 04, 2010, 09:28:16 PM
its not available yet, he just discovered it a few days ago needs tested etc... :p
It is indeed still needing a little testing--I have been able to refine it a little further and now have it working well on diagonals and curves. I'm going to attempt to optimize it a little further yet. Additionally, the Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool (TSCT) has required a few minor modifications to it in order to support the new developments.
That being said, there's a good possibility that the capacity improvements will be implemented in what has now been dubbed Version 1.1.0.
-Alex
TLA-3 Problem: ()sad()
I have a problem in TLA-3, I realize that it has no path when I use UDI
Quote from: Vanilla9823 on August 08, 2010, 04:54:32 PM
TLA-3 Problem: ()sad()
I have a problem in TLA-3, I realize that it has no path when I use UDI
No pathing at all? Did you turn on the DrawPaths cheat? If there's no path, you've probably got yourself an LHD copy of the game without the LHD Plugin installed.
-Alex
This is the pic
http://a.imageshack.us/img291/5349/tla3.png (http://a.imageshack.us/img291/5349/tla3.png)
As you can see, the DrawPaths is activated and I did'nt see any path at TLA-3
and the transition of road and tla-3
Quote from: Vanilla9823 on August 08, 2010, 07:05:14 PM
This is the pic
http://a.imageshack.us/img291/5349/tla3.png (http://a.imageshack.us/img291/5349/tla3.png)
As you can see, the DrawPaths is activated and I did'nt see any path at TLA-3
and the transition of road and tla-3
Thanks for posting that--it confirms my suspicions. You have a Left-Hand Drive version of the game. Install the NWM's Left-Hand Drive Plugin and your TLA-3s will be pathed properly.
-Alex
Reinstalling NAM and install NWM LHD plugin
Thank u
Questions ()what()
1. Why TLA-3 and other OWR have "crossover" ?
2.How does crossover ouccur ?
"$Deal"$
TLA-3 has it for consistency and the graphic effects.
OWR-4 and OWR-5 have it so traffic can change between the two tiles (ala RHW-6c, RHW-8 (both), RHW-10)
I have a question: if the wider RHWs have crossover paths like OWR-4 and -5, why do the wide RHWs not have cars stopping in the road and going the wrong way like the wider OWRs?
Quote from: Moonraker0 on August 09, 2010, 06:58:17 PM
I have a question: if the wider RHWs have crossover paths like OWR-4 and -5, why do the wide RHWs not have cars stopping in the road and going the wrong way like the wider OWRs?
It's largely because the RHWs are based off a two-way network. It's the tidal flow that makes things tricky with the OWR.
-Alex
The NAM Team is pleased to announce the release of Network Widening Mod Version 1.1!
Here's a look at the new features:
- The TLA-3, TLA-5, ARD-3, MAVE-6, OWR-3, OWR-4 and OWR-5 networks have all had their capacity increased.
- Fixes to RULs and path files.
- Overhanging "bite" added to Orthogonal-Diagonal transition for TLA-3, AVE-2 and ARD-3 networks.
NOTE: Existing Orthogonal-Diagonal transitions may appear a bit "dark" on top upon installation--click over them to update them.
And the download links:
Network Widening Mod Version 1.1Windows (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2376) | MacOS (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2377)
You'll need the following for NWM Version 1.1. to function properly:
Network Addon Mod Version 29Windows (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=851) | MacOS (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=852)
NAM Essentials Version r84 is
not required. All the files contained in it are already in NAM Version 29.
Hope you all enjoy the latest version, and thanks again for your continued support!
-Alex
A thousand times thank you NAM Team, awsome work! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: &apls &apls
Hello, I' m new here.
I suggest that NWM can make the start piece seperately like RHW. The 2 tile wide pieces can be put aside and drag from different direction. Is it a good idea?
I' m from China and my English is bad, so if I' m politeless, I' m sorry...
allantan1116
I hope I have understood you correctly, but the NWM is already based around a starterpiece setup, and very little puzzle pieces are used. It is all draggable.
As for the 2 tile wide starter pieces, I think you are referring to the old side-by-side setup used on the early RHW/ANT tool.
I think Tarkus might be able to help you a bit better.
Keep up the English, --Nick
Citybuilder, there is somewhat of a difference to what you are saying to alantan1116. The one point I must stress is how the first NWM was released with a conjoined 2-tile setup for the NWM MAVE, compared to the RHW 4. Thats probably what Allan meant by separately.
RHW 4 is designed that while you can build directly next to each other, you are not required to build them conjoined, where as the MAVE, they are plopped down 2 tile wide conjoined already, so currently it is a lot harder to build those at further widths apart, because you have to spend extra time to do a work around, sometimes people don't want to use the OWR portions of the NWM, they just want to see stuff split up MAVE style; not to mention the MAVE is capable of asymmetrical setups people like to do, its just momentarily because of the conjoined two tile setup, it takes longer to get it done.
The old, original RHW 4 on the ANT was a lot harder to build split up wider, those you had to build side by side at first, and take extra steps to widen the width out, which is kind of what I referring to with some portions of the NWM now, the only difference is the puzzle piece starts it, but the extra steps to split stuff up MAVE with the first release are still there.
Since the RHW 4 setup was eventually changed and made easier to build further apart, the NWM is a lot younger born then the RHW project is, and still has room to grow.
European NWM users, the moment you have been waiting for has arrived. mrtnrln and riiga have finished the Euro TRM for NWM and TuLEPs, and it is now up on the STEX (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24632)! :thumbsup:
-Alex
zomg i been waiting for this :D you guys are awesome too, EURO TULEPS :D
Quote from: j-dub on August 15, 2010, 09:29:52 AM
Citybuilder, there is somewhat of a difference to what you are saying to alantan1116. The one point I must stress is how the first NWM was released with a conjoined 2-tile setup for the NWM MAVE, compared to the RHW 4. Thats probably what Allan meant by separately.
RHW 4 is designed that while you can build directly next to each other, you are not required to build them conjoined, where as the MAVE, they are plopped down 2 tile wide conjoined already, so currently it is a lot harder to build those at further widths apart, because you have to spend extra time to do a work around, sometimes people don't want to use the OWR portions of the NWM, they just want to see stuff split up MAVE style; not to mention the MAVE is capable of asymmetrical setups people like to do, its just momentarily because of the conjoined two tile setup, it takes longer to get it done.
The old, original RHW 4 on the ANT was a lot harder to build split up wider, those you had to build side by side at first, and take extra steps to widen the width out, which is kind of what I referring to with some portions of the NWM now, the only difference is the puzzle piece starts it, but the extra steps to split stuff up MAVE with the first release are still there.
Since the RHW 4 setup was eventually changed and made easier to build further apart, the NWM is a lot younger born then the RHW project is, and still has room to grow.
Thanks a lot! That' s what I wanted to know.
:thumbsup:
But the cars will return on the OWR-4 and 5, I drew the paths and discovered that there is a two-way path in the middle of the start piece.
How can we avoid this? It' s terrible when the cars drive everywhere...
:'(
Simple, demolish the starter piece. :thumbsup:
They're not really designed to be kept in the continuous flow of traffic and can hinder placement of new puzzle pieces (especially on the RHW).
However, the driving the wrong way thing was a bug in NWM v1. I do not know if the bug was fixed in this release or if it is a quirk in OWR networks.
Quote from: Tarkus on August 15, 2010, 06:46:11 PM
European NWM users, the moment you have been waiting for has arrived. mrtnrln and riiga have finished the Euro TRM for NWM and TuLEPs, and it is now up on the STEX (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24632)! :thumbsup:
-Alex
Wow... everything's coming out at once!! This is brilliant!! Thanks to the NAM team and Maarten and Riiga and all of the testers!!
Regarding allantan1116's question about splitting the dual-tile network starters, unfortunately, due to how they are designed, that isn't possible. The dual-tile network starters basically consist of a single-tile NWM network starter placed next to a "dummy starter" which specifies the number of lanes to be added to the network. It was designed this way in large part to facilitate the future development of asymmetrical NWM networks.
As far as the OWR-4/5 crossover wrong-way stuff, unfortunately, the paths have to be both ways in order to facilitate switching between the two tiles, but because the paths are not on a straight vertical/horizontal trajectory, the game's .exe-controlled tidal flow system for the OWR network does not eliminate the unnecessary ones. I've done considerable amount of testing with it, both before and after release, and I have had absolutely zero luck in counteracting it so far, unfortunately.
-Alex
I'm just wondering, can there be a OWR-4 and OWR-5 split into 2 OWR-2? I've found places inwhich that would be very useful. Such as a split from OWR-4 to OWR-2 going one way, and the other OWR-2 with a sudden transition into ERHW-4.
Quote from: Tarkus on August 15, 2010, 06:46:11 PM
European NWM users, the moment you have been waiting for has arrived. mrtnrln and riiga have finished the Euro TRM for NWM and TuLEPs, and it is now up on the STEX (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24632)! :thumbsup:
-Alex
is there a reason why these are never available on the lex?
Quote from: Kitsune on August 16, 2010, 06:00:15 PM
is there a reason why these are never available on the lex?
Upload rights.
-Alex
I just noticed that the introductory message has been updated to show actual capacities for the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator. All of the OWR capacities need to be increased by 50% to account for the 50% increase in the basic OWR capacity in the traffic simulator last fall.
Quote from: z on August 17, 2010, 08:21:12 AM
I just noticed that the introductory message has been updated to show actual capacities for the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator. All of the OWR capacities need to be increased by 50% to account for the 50% increase in the basic OWR capacity in the traffic simulator last fall.
Thanks for catching me! I had actually been going off the table
here in the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6812.msg215933#msg215933), which still has the lower OWR capacities.
-Alex
Oops! I thought I had updated those, and apparently I had - but only for the Classic version of the simulator. :-[ It's all fixed now.
Got them fixed here now as well. :thumbsup:
-Alex
For reason I can plop the start piece. I got this error: Intersection Placement String Missing. Can somebody help me please? &ops
Quote from: jcmpaz on August 17, 2010, 10:18:12 PM
For reason I can plop the start piece. I got this error: Intersection Placement String Missing. Can somebody help me please? &ops
You've got an outdated NAM Controller file sitting in your Plugins somewhere that's preventing the NWM from working properly--basically, with respect to the NWM. Locate it, remove it and you should be fine. The root cause of that and the infamous "Red Arrow Bug" are the same, so
NAM FAQ #1 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5094.msg161792#msg161792) may help you.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 16, 2010, 10:59:53 AM
Regarding allantan1116's question about splitting the dual-tile network starters, unfortunately, due to how they are designed, that isn't possible. The dual-tile network starters basically consist of a single-tile NWM network starter placed next to a "dummy starter" which specifies the number of lanes to be added to the network. It was designed this way in large part to facilitate the future development of asymmetrical NWM networks.
As far as the OWR-4/5 crossover wrong-way stuff, unfortunately, the paths have to be both ways in order to facilitate switching between the two tiles, but because the paths are not on a straight vertical/horizontal trajectory, the game's .exe-controlled tidal flow system for the OWR network does not eliminate the unnecessary ones. I've done considerable amount of testing with it, both before and after release, and I have had absolutely zero luck in counteracting it so far, unfortunately.
-Alex
Thanks a lot &apls
So I should learn to ignore the path problem. ;)
Quote from: Tarkus on August 17, 2010, 11:10:21 PM
You've got an outdated NAM Controller file sitting in your Plugins somewhere that's preventing the NWM from working properly--basically, with respect to the NWM. Locate it, remove it and you should be fine. The root cause of that and the infamous "Red Arrow Bug" are the same, so NAM FAQ #1 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5094.msg161792#msg161792) may help you.
-Alex
Thank you very much. I solved my problem with ypur help
Quote from: Tarkus on August 17, 2010, 11:10:21 PM
You've got an outdated NAM Controller file sitting in your Plugins somewhere that's preventing the NWM from working properly--basically, with respect to the NWM. Locate it, remove it and you should be fine. The root cause of that and the infamous "Red Arrow Bug" are the same, so NAM FAQ #1 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5094.msg161792#msg161792) may help you.
-Alex
Thank You very much. I solved my problem
Does the new version allow for any way to disable 'wealthification' of network transition pieces?
Quote from: yddot on August 18, 2010, 03:48:23 PM
Does the new version allow for any way to disable 'wealthification' of network transition pieces?
Currently, no. I haven't forgotten about it, though. ;)
-Alex
Thanks, Alex!
And in other news, last night, by making some minute modifications to the TLA-3 and TLA-5 paths, I was able to make those networks work properly with the "Snap To Roads" mode in U-Drive-It mode. The modifications will be included in the next update to the NWM.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 21, 2010, 12:01:19 AM
And in other news, last night, by making some minute modifications to the TLA-3 and TLA-5 paths, I was able to make those networks work properly with the "Snap To Roads" mode in U-Drive-It mode. The modifications will be included in the next update to the NWM.
-Alex
Wow... that's great news!
Hey,
first I have to say that NWM is the reason why I re-installed SC4. So thanks. &apls
But... can somebody tell me if there is a uni-density-mod for the NWM available?
This could be considered a weird request... and I won't take offence... I'm known for 'weird' ;D
What about the possibility of a two tile wide road?... with wide sidewalks/shoulders and the road running down the middle, with the capacity of a road.
This mayor has planning issues, and it sure would be nice to be able to place a two tile wide road, where I know I will need an avenue or other large capacity two tile system later... my Simtizens get cranky when I destroy their homes and jobs for 'widening' projects....
just putting the thought out there.... am I totally off my rocker? ???
Maybe with eye-candy bike lanes on either side to fill out the extra space.
Quote from: Nik-O on August 21, 2010, 07:13:55 AM
first I have to say that NWM is the reason why I re-installed SC4. So thanks. &apls
Glad to hear that! :)
Quote from: Nik-O on August 21, 2010, 07:13:55 AM
But... can somebody tell me if there is a uni-density-mod for the NWM available?
Currently, no.
Quote from: Gringamuyloca on August 27, 2010, 08:11:25 AM
This could be considered a weird request... and I won't take offence... I'm known for 'weird' ;D
What about the possibility of a two tile wide road?... with wide sidewalks/shoulders and the road running down the middle, with the capacity of a road.
This mayor has planning issues, and it sure would be nice to be able to place a two tile wide road, where I know I will need an avenue or other large capacity two tile system later... my Simtizens get cranky when I destroy their homes and jobs for 'widening' projects....
just putting the thought out there.... am I totally off my rocker? ???
The problem with that is that because the game calculates capacity on a per-tile basis, the two-tile wide Road would have the same capacity as the large capacity two-tile systems you'd be planning to upgrade to, defeating the purpose of upgrading.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 27, 2010, 10:29:53 AM
The problem with that is that because the game calculates capacity on a per-tile basis, the two-tile wide Road would have the same capacity as the large capacity two-tile systems you'd be planning to upgrade to, defeating the purpose of upgrading.
I did kinda figure that would be the response... but there are still rabbits being pulled out of hats here all the time... I was hoping for one more!
Thanks for taking the time to respond Alex.
Have a great day...
Good work Tarkus on the TLA. :thumbsup: . I'm finding it very useful as it adds a more realistic touch to the game. I have a couple of questions for you, but they may have been answered already. Will it be possible to have diagonal MAVE-4, MAVE-6, or TLA-5 using the current setup for transitioning from orthogonal to diagonal RHW-6 or RHW-8? Are FARR AVE-4 and roads possible with 30/60 degree angles?
Quote from: godjcjk12 on August 27, 2010, 01:07:54 PM
Good work Tarkus on the TLA. :thumbsup: . I'm finding it very useful as it adds a more realistic touch to the game. I have a couple of questions for you, but they may have been answered already. Will it be possible to have diagonal MAVE-4, MAVE-6, or TLA-5 using the current setup for transitioning from orthogonal to diagonal RHW-6 or RHW-8? Are FARR AVE-4 and roads possible with 30/60 degree angles?
Thanks! And long time no see! :)
Diagonals are planned for those networks--the logistics are still being worked out, however. 30/60 degree angles won't be possible, due to how the game's geometry works out, but fractional angles are planned for a future release. You'll likely see them on the single-tile networks first. Dave (
superhands) did up some fractional angle textures at the standard 18.4 degree/71.6 degree angles for the single-tile networks awhile back. They just need to be built into puzzle pieces, which will likely happen within one of the next NWM releases. :thumbsup:
-Alex
Quick question, Is it possible to get rid of the arrows on the OWRs ?
I'd always wondered why 18/72s were made instead of 30/60s. I'm just happy to have FAR(R) but it would be cool if something somehow changed ::)
I know a 7-lane network has been on the drawing board for awhile and I look forward to it some day. But what about a compact (2-tile) TLA-7/AVE-6? It seems like it could be done with roughly the same lane-width as TLA-3s and certainly wider than compact MAVE-4 or tram-on-road. It might actually be more realistic for denser areas in city centers ;)
NWM has been a real game-changer, can't thank you guys enough &apls &hlp
Quote from: marsh on September 05, 2010, 05:46:15 PM
Quick question, Is it possible to get rid of the arrows on the OWRs ?
Tropod's old NoOneWayArrowsMod on the STEX from a few years back will work for NWM OWRs. If you're wanting something along the lines of the NAM's OWR Arrow Reduction Plugin, it appears to be possible, but it would require reconfiguring all the NWM OWRs to be model-based networks.
Quote from: noahclem on September 05, 2010, 06:13:00 PM
I know a 7-lane network has been on the drawing board for awhile and I look forward to it some day. But what about a compact (2-tile) TLA-7/AVE-6? It seems like it could be done with roughly the same lane-width as TLA-3s and certainly wider than compact MAVE-4 or tram-on-road. It might actually be more realistic for denser areas in city centers ;)
The lanes on an NTLA-7 would have to be pretty narrow, and there wouldn't be any capacity advantage to it, unfortunately. However, the triple-tile TLA-7 is a little bit farther than the drawing boards. It actually has intersections now . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg716.imageshack.us%2Fimg716%2F2513%2Fnwm052420101.jpg&hash=b5b58a31f6cb19bc4a9553e1a1dadd8793cdae76)
-Alex
&apls :thumbsup:
Quote from: noahclem on September 05, 2010, 06:13:00 PM
I'd always wondered why 18/72s were made instead of 30/60s. I'm just happy to have FAR(R) but it would be cool if something somehow changed ::)
The reason you can't have 30/60s is that they wouldn't repeat in a finite number of tiles. You need angles for which the arctangent is a small integer. For example, 26.565° and 63.435° would give you half diagonal roads, which have been planned for some time; we just don't have anyone to do them right now.
That road is huge I like it. &apls
Have anyone thought about making 6 lane oneway roads, beacuse I have seen 3,4,5 lanes wide but what about 6 lanes.
It's nice to see that the TLA-7 is coming along really well. :thumbsup: &apls So how's the NAVE-4?
@ Tarkus - Great progress! :thumbsup:
@ z - Thanks for clearing that up! Good luck finding someone and sorry it's unlikely to be me &mmm
QuoteHave anyone thought about making 6 lane oneway roads, beacuse I have seen 3,4,5 lanes wide but what about 6 lanes.
Well, your kind of just going to have to build two OWR 3's side by side, except have them in flow the same direction.
I found a few posts addressing my question, so I no longer really have a question. Let me just say that I'm looking forward to seeing some NWM bridges, if it's possible. I realize that it might be a stretch with the multiple tile wide networks.
Additionally, let me just say how impressed I am with the NWM's capabilities after spending some time using it. The euro textures are fantastic, and the OWR's are exactly what I need. There is a street in Ashaffenburg, Germany that is basically two OWRs with a green strip with a pedestrian trail and park area running down the middle (Friedrichstrasse and Weissenburger Strasse), and the NWM has allowed me to simulate similar setups in my own cities, minus the turning lanes, and the bike lanes. Also the TLA-3 lets me simulate Tejon Street in Colorado Springs, the main party drag, which used to be a OWR3 and was recently (stupidly) converted to a TLA3 with the middle lane reserved for loading and unloading of delivery trucks and police stopping and breaking up fights at the clubs. NWM has truly added a whole new (if still somewhat incomplete) aspect to the game. I don't know what I'd do without you guys. Keep up the excellent work!
Since the NWM developement is rushing onwards, may I throw in a little question: will there be 90 degree corners for the MAVE-4, ..? So far everytime I want to have a 90 degree curve (L-curve) I need to add a 1-tile stub on one of the opposing ends (thus making it a little T-crossing instead of an L-curve). Or is it just me lacking the knowledge how to create a L-curve ..?
That's a current limitation. Apparently 90 degree turns are in the works.
Quote from: jdenm8 on September 06, 2010, 05:51:40 AM
Apparently 90 degree turns are in the works.
&hlp &hlp &apls &apls
Thanks for the kind words on the TLA-7 . . . there will be more where that came from. ;)
Quote from: Aaron Graham on September 05, 2010, 07:16:39 PM
Have anyone thought about making 6 lane oneway roads, beacuse I have seen 3,4,5 lanes wide but what about 6 lanes.
It's under consideration, though it's not a priority, given that as a 2-tile network it would have the same capacity as the existing OWR-4 and OWR-5.
Quote from: Nego on September 05, 2010, 07:21:43 PM
It's nice to see that the TLA-7 is coming along really well. :thumbsup: &apls So how's the NAVE-4?
The NMAVE-4 is still as it was when it was last shown this Spring--the base network is in place, but there are no intersections.
Quote from: Kevin1a on September 06, 2010, 02:16:52 AM
I found a few posts addressing my question, so I no longer really have a question. Let me just say that I'm looking forward to seeing some NWM bridges, if it's possible. I realize that it might be a stretch with the multiple tile wide networks.
It is possible to make over-water bridges for just about all of the NWM networks. The dual-tile ones will probably be built using something along the lines of what
choco did for the as-of-yet-unreleased Wider RHW bridges. The main reason they haven't been made yet is that currently, there's a lack of bridge modders.
Quote from: Rady on September 06, 2010, 03:50:22 AM
Since the NWM developement is rushing onwards, may I throw in a little question: will there be 90 degree corners for the MAVE-4, ..? So far everytime I want to have a 90 degree curve (L-curve) I need to add a 1-tile stub on one of the opposing ends (thus making it a little T-crossing instead of an L-curve). Or is it just me lacking the knowledge how to create a L-curve ..?
Quote from: jdenm8 on September 06, 2010, 05:51:40 AM
That's a current limitation. Apparently 90 degree turns are in the works.
There's been no development on them, but there are plans.
-Alex
I was playing one of my old cities today which makes heavy use of ARD-3. However, I wondered why no automata were using it to drive town the range (This city is ont he top of a mountain range FYI). I turned on DrawPaths and discovered this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imageshack.us%2Fimg693%2F9002%2Fgunning4sep971283752823.png&hash=44fff1e4809816174dbf7edc2568ff1d34e8167a)
It stops the automata, seems to break the simulator and it kills UDI.
None of the other NWM networks I use (Practically all bar the TLAs and the two-tile OWRs) seem to have this issue.
I've removed the only content that could be possibly causing this issue and it still happens.
Any ideas?
That's just freaking weird . . . I've replicated it here. It also occurs with the MAVE-6, and I have figured out what is causing it.
-Alex
Happens to me too, tested few ARD-3s in my city and the same bug occured.
Could it have something to do with the new NWM, as when i created those ARD-3s in my city i believe everything worked correctly, (i usually always test things with UDI after creating them) but now with the new version it doesn't.
EDIT: Damn, should read the messages with care. Didn't notice that you have figured it out :)
Wait a sec, is it maybe because of the dummy paths that increase the capacity of the NWM that it acts like a flat intersection?
Quote from: mrtnrln on September 07, 2010, 05:37:49 AM
Wait a sec, is it maybe because of the dummy paths that increase the capacity of the NWM that it acts like a flat intersection?
It's not directly caused by the dummy paths--it's because the "3D Key" was set to 1 in order to put the dummy paths 20m underground. This actually works perfectly fine on model-based networks, but apparently causes the "plateauing" seen above on texture-based networks. The RHW-6S and some of the TuLEPs got the same treatment and they work fine on slopes.
I've attached a file that should alleviate the issue--let me know if you're still running into the difficulty after installing it. If it appears to do the trick, I'll update the files on the LEX/STEX with it and the UDI pathing improvements for the TLAs that I'm working on now. Also note that as a result of the changes, the dummy path is actually visible now.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on September 07, 2010, 09:43:36 AM
I've attached a file that should alleviate the issue--let me know if you're still running into the difficulty after installing it.
I did a quick test with the bugfix for myself. Evidently the plateau-y paths are still there, but that's probably the dummy paths that you mentioned. (If not, then there's still something wrong... Either that, or I installed the thing wrong...)
The fix seemed to work, only now the automata seems to follow the plateau-y paths now; I tried it with an UDI bus, and it was driving level all the way and not adjusting to the slope. And automata still follows the paths, but as I tried with UDI, I seem to stop UDI-ing in seemingly random places...
If this was the same issue BEFORE the bugfix, then I may have installed it wrong. Otherwise, the fix might not have worked.And to go a little off-topic here,... I also installed a bugfix for the slip lanes for the TuLEPs, and the paths still don't show. It tells me that it could be a problem with me with installing the bugfixes for both cases.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 07, 2010, 04:32:30 PM
If this was the same issue BEFORE the bugfix, then I may have installed it wrong. Otherwise, the fix might not have worked.
Yes, that was the pre-bugfix issue. As long as it (and the TuLEPs fix) are loading
after the NWM and the TuLEPs file, they should work. Try creating a zzz-subfolder in your NAM folder and sticking them in there and see if that fixes it.
I tested the adjusted NWM paths earlier myself and everything did seem to look correct . . . the dummy paths will show up as green arrows pointing off to the side on the edge of the network tiles.
-Alex
A couple posters over at ST asked about a situation with OWR-3 (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=113848&STARTPAGE=7&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear�) (and one mentioned ARD-3) where only pedestrians use the route. I did a quick check and noticed this...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi448.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq206%2FCaptCity%2FNWM1.jpg&hash=9bb42bd8e670ef1fee87350af8278fe14c54919a)
No traffic will move along the OWR route. But if I add a simple intersection like this...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi448.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq206%2FCaptCity%2FNWM2.jpg&hash=a0ac25a0b22ff03f4388ee9dfa831217e831ca28)
...traffic will flow. Is this related to the issue mentioned above with the ARD or perhaps something different?
Later: I also noticed if I replace one of the 90 degree turns with a couple 45 degree turns...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi448.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq206%2FCaptCity%2FNWM4.jpg&hash=88298f3c597703f09a28000cbe20b730eb14de57)
...traffic will move.
I've checked into it . . . this situation happens with the TLA-3, ARD-3, and OWR-3, but not the AVE-2 or OWR-1--the two networks that don't have any sort of crossover path or distilled intersection path. It also only affects it in a full loop . . . a three-quarter loop with the TLA-3 worked fine. I have a hunch as to why this is occurring, and it has to do with the 90-curves themselves . . . but I'll need to do some more testing.
The OWR-3 paths also were suffering from the stairstepping that jdenm8 reported--I've fixed that on my end as well (it has no effect on the full-loop issue, however). I'll compile everything into a full Version 1.1.1 update when it's all fixed up.
-Alex
Edit: I've done some adjustments . . . they seem to improve the functionality on the 90-bends, but building a completely closed TLA-3, ARD-3 or OWR-3 loop with just sharp 90-bends for corners is still inadvisable. Fortunately, I don't think many folks do that except for testing purposes.
Thanks, Alex... I also noticed the same effect with ARD-3 and TLA-3 after some more checking. Good to know about the "looping" issue. Although, as you mentioned, it probably wouldn't come up in normal situations.
I meant to post this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2FCCreations%2Fgunning-6_oct.__971284005489.jpg&hash=f9b1c68c02936b4e2ca14a121f6e56e0848daf2b)
The fix is working on my end perfectly. (and those white line textures are my own)
Is it possible to have bus/subway stops in NWM?
I mean like this.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.tinypic.com%2F2vkkq53.jpg&hash=53c052b8da4d31aad6f006ab5135e46565951f1a)
I'm looking for it everywhere and i can't find it.
Maybe someone could make it please?
Well, you can't find them, because there aren't some made yet. I bet at least someone is working on it ;)
Quote from: xg4m3r on September 10, 2010, 12:26:47 PM
Is it possible to have bus/subway stops in NWM?
The RTMT Team has this as a very high priority, and it will be coming out with RTMT v3.70. However, that's still a number of months away. When it does arrive, though, all forms of NWM will be supported.
Actually, I came across these just yesterday. Haven't checked yet if they work, but the pics look interesting.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F5d3a805e7159930ee7546766d3004903.jpg&hash=ebc0eda8eb3d0e4e81dd0a0b42a6c8d3f7667946) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/5d3a805e7159930ee7546766d3004903.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F9ea7b895390b0b22f78bb5702b913c26.jpg&hash=9cd9732b204e10f773bd47ef2ddcda3fead4c0fb) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/9ea7b895390b0b22f78bb5702b913c26.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F42a3e8096f70570b2b8fad3e5a90bfca.jpg&hash=cbb60f89d134aded3a463ebac16f302460e52bdc) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/42a3e8096f70570b2b8fad3e5a90bfca.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2Fceb6f60bc5cb6ed13530d0f0bf726653.jpg&hash=364a666b49718330523de966362aa6db5961cd56) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/ceb6f60bc5cb6ed13530d0f0bf726653.jpg)
In case somebody wants to have a closer look at them, I found them here: http://www.simcity.cn/viewthread.php?tid=82867&highlight=nwm
And kind of along the same line of thought, what do you guys make of these puzzle-pieces? Just as above, haven't tried them yet.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F8289200944b51805b58a4fbec9b1f8e3.jpg&hash=c1e1bfe08849e121bc002bd718c920b2df1b15d6) (http://www.ld-host.de/)
http://www.simcity.cn/viewthread.php?tid=85577&highlight=nwm
:-\
Yeah, I caught a glimpse of those during my visit over to simcity.cn to check out the AVE-2 medians . . . don't know how the modding is on them.
Also, technically, as TE Lots, they're not puzzle pieces.
-Alex
Quote from: Myself.or.? on September 10, 2010, 04:28:49 PM
Actually, I came across these just yesterday. Haven't checked yet if they work, but the pics look interesting.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F5d3a805e7159930ee7546766d3004903.jpg&hash=ebc0eda8eb3d0e4e81dd0a0b42a6c8d3f7667946) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/5d3a805e7159930ee7546766d3004903.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F9ea7b895390b0b22f78bb5702b913c26.jpg&hash=9cd9732b204e10f773bd47ef2ddcda3fead4c0fb) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/9ea7b895390b0b22f78bb5702b913c26.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F42a3e8096f70570b2b8fad3e5a90bfca.jpg&hash=cbb60f89d134aded3a463ebac16f302460e52bdc) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/42a3e8096f70570b2b8fad3e5a90bfca.jpg)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2Fceb6f60bc5cb6ed13530d0f0bf726653.jpg&hash=364a666b49718330523de966362aa6db5961cd56) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/ceb6f60bc5cb6ed13530d0f0bf726653.jpg)
In case somebody wants to have a closer look at them, I found them here: http://www.simcity.cn/viewthread.php?tid=82867&highlight=nwm
And kind of along the same line of thought, what do you guys make of these puzzle-pieces? Just as above, haven't tried them yet.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F8289200944b51805b58a4fbec9b1f8e3.jpg&hash=c1e1bfe08849e121bc002bd718c920b2df1b15d6) (http://www.ld-host.de/)
http://www.simcity.cn/viewthread.php?tid=85577&highlight=nwm
:-\
Yeah, that' s a wonderful work.
But sometimes the base texture will be "colourful", it' s not a perfect lot.
I am having a problem that might or might not be related to the NWM, but it is occurring on an NWM network so I'll post it here. The problem is with a specific stretch of MAVE-6. Sims will refuse to use this stretch of MAVE-6 in any way. The other direction of traffic is being used. The problem stretch is unused in both morning and evening commute. As you can see, Ho Man Fung (the building in the left part of the screenshot) actually shows a no car zot, and the Garden Tower next to it (at the street corner) is only using the through route for entering and leaving the building, not the problem stretch of avenue.
Information about the screenshot: This is the traffic volume data view for the morning commute. As you can see, there is zero usage for one part of the avenue. There is an entering OWR-3 intersection with both tiles of the MAVE-6 further east, not visible in this shot. There is also a diamond interchange with elevated RHW-4 past that intersection; cars will enter and exit the highway there but never go on the problem stretch.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpicpanda.com%2Fimages%2F5hdikb4wd9hm5xv2ot_thumb.png&hash=7589d4d73a2e53fbecf8f8f6b80bb366470d3d03) (http://picpanda.com/viewer.php?file=5hdikb4wd9hm5xv2ot.png)
A couple of follow-up questions:
1) Have you downloaded the test patch a few posts above? It does affect MAVE-6 paths.
2) Have you checked the Evening Commute Volume Map? Often times, for the Morning Commute, you'll see traffic only on one side.
I'd also recommend checking things with DrawPaths.
-Alex
I have just downloaded it now (I thought it was only for slope issues, although, come to think of it, the MAVE-6 is on a small slope). The evening commute is the same as the morning commute, no traffic at all. I will try DrawPaths and see what results that produces.
Some Conflicting Intersections cause crashes. Just to notify that to some people.
Quote from: Deathcat001 on September 20, 2010, 11:51:29 PM
Some Conflicting Intersections cause crashes. Just to notify that to some people.
Which intersections and what do you mean by "conflicting"? With more information, I could diagnose things.
-Alex
The Network Widening Mod has just been updated to Version 1.1.1 on the LEX. This release is primarily a bugfix release, and contains the following changes:
- "Path stairstepping" on capacity enhanced networks built on slopes (ARD-3, OWR-3, MAVE-6) fixed.
- Some T21s fixed to allow them to appear in Industrial-High Tech areas.
- Improvements to TLA-3 and TLA-5 pathing to allow more stable U-Drive-It (UDI) Snap-To-Roads functionality.
- Inclusion of a Lot Support file (NetworkWideningMod_LotSupport.dat), providing universal paths and textures for use in NWM-related Lots.
-Alex
Great! I will re-download it now! Thanks a lot, Alex and the team! &apls
I was looking through the NWM textures and I came upon this one. Looks like the beginnings of the Narrow MAVE-4 ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi904.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac246%2FRionescu%2F0x51050804.png&hash=936e5493162e88d7cdb73b1f5457bfc980fe8572)
There's quite a few NMAVE-4 textures there Rion, not just that one.
All the base network textures (0x51050000-0x51050804) and their paths, along with a Road-to-NMAVE-4 transition (0x51356000-0x51356010) have been in there since the initial Version 1.0 release back in May. The RULs for that transition, plus the starter and I believe at least part of the overrides are in the current public NAM controller build as well, albeit commented out/disabled.
-Alex
I figured there'd at least be a straight piece somewhere, but I guess I skipped all of them but one :-[. I guess if it's that far along, it can't be too long until it's enabled.
Well, the reason it wasn't implemented was because it was unstable. Tarkus said that about 7 months ago.
Actually, the code is relatively stable . . . the network is designed such that its RULs can be a direct port of the TLA-3 or AVE-2. The main issue is that there are no textures or paths for intersections. There wouldn't be much point in enabling the network without those.
-Alex
That makes sense
Man: "Honey, I can't get off the road!!"
Wife: "Don't be stupid, just get off the way you got on."
Man: "How did we get on? I don't see any intersections...."
:P
Quote from: Tarkus on March 26, 2010, 12:36:05 PMAs mentioned before, the NMAVE-4 is currently without intersections, so at this point, it wouldn't really make sense to release it . . . and besides, we've already got 10 other networks coming out for the first release. ;)
-Alex
lol, you did say that too. That's me getting my information wrong again :P
QuoteActually, the code is relatively stable . . . the network is designed such that its RULs can be a direct port of the TLA-3 or AVE-2. The main issue is that there are no textures or paths for intersections. There wouldn't be much point in enabling the network without those.
-Alex
Furthering the creator, (don't hold your breath guys) you would have had to use pieces not thought for the NMAVE, to fill in the missing intersections, like the existing, Tram in Road pieces (the width is almost if not identical), but its not the same amount of lanes, and has nothing to do with the NWM project, or if you wanted to keep with regular roads, you would of had to temporarily use road TuLEPs between, it fits close, but not quite.
If you want to prepare yourself for NMave now, you could use the Tram in Road temporarily, because the cars can use it as a 1 tile four lane road, its just its not the same as being able to drag the real, unfinished thing out, but again, the TRAM branch of NAM is a completely different neighborhood then the NWM branch of the NAM.
I think you may have meant Tram-on-Road. The Tram-in-Road just has two lanes of traffic and the tram track lanes are not shared with car traffic. And you may have just given me an idea . . .
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on September 24, 2010, 10:23:22 AM
... And you may have just given me an idea . . .
-Alex
...uh-oh, I hear gears turning, wizz-boom-pop! :D
just popping-in to say something $%Grinno$%
Jack :satisfied:
Well, the "idea" I had (borrowing some Tram-on-Road stuff for NMAVE-4) didn't quite work out . . . the roadway on Tram-on-Road is actually slightly wider than that of the NMAVE-4. I'll figure something out, though.
-Alex
Hey Tarkus...?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg801.imageshack.us%2Fimg801%2F8561%2Frhwrnd2feb2001285395259.jpg&hash=e2f025ed261af9edf0c848e23672dbba5ec01347)
I was editing some OWR-2 textures for the end pieces and wondered what they'd look like if I plopped one of the NWM OWR transitions. Turns out that if I plopped the OWR-2 to OWR-3 piece,... The paths disappear... ()what()
I also added some ARD-3 on a hill to prove that it wasn't related to the stairstep problem from before. (Though I'm also seeing some extra arrows on the networks... I'm guessing it's what gives these kinds of networks the extra capacity...)
Why can't those kinds of pieces be starterless like their OWR-4 and OWR-5 counterparts (Like the piece I plopped to the left of the problematic piece)?
I also found that the OWR-1 to OWR-2 piece also does the same thing, and the paths will reappear if the OWR is dragged in the opposite direction as shown in here.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 24, 2010, 11:33:23 PM
I was editing some OWR-2 textures for the end pieces and wondered what they'd look like if I plopped one of the NWM OWR transitions. Turns out that if I plopped the OWR-2 to OWR-3 piece,... The paths disappear... ()what()
Actually, that's a symptom of plopping the OWR-2-to-OWR-3 or OWR-1-to-OWR-2 transitions with the arrows in one direction, and then trying to switch the directionality. It has to do with the OneWayDir command on the RULs and is a quirk of some OneWayRoad-based puzzle pieces. (In fact, OneWayDir quirks are basically the entire reason we have a separate LHD NAM Controller.)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 24, 2010, 11:33:23 PM
(Though I'm also seeing some extra arrows on the networks... I'm guessing it's what gives these kinds of networks the extra capacity...)
Yes, that's it exactly. The stairstepping came as a result of trying to stick those extra arrows underground so they weren't visible.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 24, 2010, 11:33:23 PM
Why can't those kinds of pieces be starterless like their OWR-4 and OWR-5 counterparts (Like the piece I plopped to the left of the problematic piece)?
It is interesting that the OWR-3-to-5 isn't suffering from the issue--several Maxis Highway interchange pieces involving OWRs with a similar stub setup to what's on that particular transition do suffer from the same issue as the OWR-2-to-3 and 1-to-2 transitions. It appears some experimentation may be in order. ::)
Thanks for bringing it to my attention! :)
-Alex
Edit: Commenting out the OneWayDir command on the OWR-2-to-3 transition (while still leaving the OWR-3 starter stub on the end) seems to have allowed it to function like the OWR-3-to-5 transition.
Hello there, glorious NAM-Team!
I'm actually feeling bad to bother you with these questions and, especially, these requests, I really am!
But it's bothering me for quite a while now and I thought I just might give it a shot. It's not just NWM, but mostly and since there seems to be no "General NAM"-Thread, I'll try here. Usually, I'd write a novel about something like this, but instead, I give you an
Essay... in pictures...
It goes like this: Why is left side like it is, while at the same time there is right side.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi51.tinypic.com%2Ft5k8er.jpg&hash=2036a16a8e5ba9ddf29fb564963c6d1794d0b16d)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi55.tinypic.com%2F10ynips.jpg&hash=950e4bed3a6e698017f460d649e08ec54e35f6b6)
(OWR1/MIS: I mean the sharp/smooth curve... the base-texture thing would be similar to the first picture)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi55.tinypic.com%2Fbkhh0.jpg&hash=30c313fdca93d2831868c36dfd418503859bc659)
As for the requests: Of course there's the usual stuff (especially NWM- and TuLEP-wise), but I haven't seen these here yet:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.tinypic.com%2F2myafme.jpg&hash=6a195def28c71525e48cfd06847573428328ab47)
1. transitions from road and ASR to medianless avenue
2. one-sided transitions
3. should be obvious
4. a smooth transition from medianless avenue to diagonal avenue
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.tinypic.com%2F24njn02.jpg&hash=00a64db70e33c43365dc11c6fb89edeed98f5b2c)
5. smooth connection between parallel railroads, just like on the left (the upper one as comparison)
That's it from my side... Thanks already for all that outstanding work... and I'm not even exaggerating... &apls &apls &apls
Sincerely
Yuyu
Hello Yuyu, welcome to SC4D. Here is one of my reasons, the RHW can not support zone growth, where as NWM can, also RHW is supposed to be a bigger scaled network. Furthering that, take the OWR-1 90 degree curve, versus the RHW ramp 90 degree curve, ideally the OWR-1 curve would be in a populated part of the city where buildings may be on it, so you may be expected to stop, or turn at 5mph, where as the RHW ramp would allow for maybe 15mph. Anyway, I get what your saying about placing zones on parts of the RHW, where other parts can not
fit them, but in this situation, RHW is not going to be able to handle most zoning next to it anyway. As for the TLA-3 S curve, versus the roadway Scurve, versus the space allowed on the TLA-3 to Avenue transition, I am sure Alex has an explanation for that.
Yes we are still lacking on vital transitions for the NWM, but for all you know, Alex may know about it, or have some stuff in the works not yet visible, because after all, the NWM is still young. The RHW on the other hand, has been around for a number of more years and has gone through improvements. That is why, the shoulder on the RHW over hangs those zones, initially a previous version of the RHW, you were required to draw the shoulder and take those tiles up, but that is an example of how stuff can/does get improved over the years, however what gets improved is the creator's decision.
As for railroads, Alex is not working on those as far as I know, you may have to talk to the RAM (railway addon mod) team about that.
Quotesince there seems to be no "General NAM"-Thread, I'll try here
There is a NAM issues thread on this web site, but since you had some valid concerns regarding the NWM, it was probably better you came here to address that.
Additionally, puzzle pieces generally don't support wealth-level textures . . . the reason being that the IID scheme they have to use conflicts with wealthing and can result in some weird visuals when those pieces are placed near zones.
The further NWM transitions are on the long-term list, and will probably be added gradually over time. The ones I can report on right now are the MAVE-4-to-6 split transition (designed for asymmetrical MAVE setups), and two for triple-tile networks: AVE-4-to-6 and TLA-7-to-AVE-6.
Right now, the main points of focus in terms of NWM development are the following:
-implementing triple-tile networking, beginning with the TLA-7 and AVE-6
-improving and expanding existing network functionality, with an emphasis on diagonals
Other long-term goals:
-More transitions
-Additional TuLEPs functionality, including "signal intersection pieces" (SIPs? ::)) for NWM OWR-based networks.
-NMAVE-4
-Asymmetrical multi-tile networks
-Fractional angle functionality
May as well post a development pic while I'm at it . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F6941%2Fnwm091920101.jpg&hash=59e4a4023163133e9d783681208a9b9e6ba77c38)
-Alex
SIPs, Tarkus? That'd be a great idea. $%Grinno$% Maybe the addition of filler pieces would also do some good; I mean, there are FPs for RHW, why not for NWM? (Last time I addressed this, someone said that the Neighbor connection piece would work just as well, but what I had in mind were FPs for single-tile networks and especially for OWR-based networks; I can show one practical application...)
I'm just wondering how a diagonal-diagonal OWR-4 or OWR-5 crossing would work; I thought about it myself and the only way it'd work is through the SIPs that you mentioned... (One step at a time, I guess...) (OWRs, or whatever code in the game runs them, can't tell what direction they're going and therefore traffic lights may be facing the wrong way... I figured that out through a lot of research... And actual trial and error... iGuess that's why rail crossings with OWR-2 have gates on both sides, even though it's one-way... SIPs would finally solve that problem; Would rail crossing SIPs for OWR networks be implemented as well?)
I'm also thinking that the ultimate nightmare is diagonalising the AVE-6 and TLA-7 and intersectionising that monster, especially at diagonals... (One step at a time, tackle ortho crossings for now...)
Going too far ahead, aren't I...? :-[
Quote from: Tarkus on September 30, 2010, 01:49:31 PM
Additionally, puzzle pieces generally don't support wealth-level textures . . . the reason being that the IID scheme they have to use conflicts with wealthing and can result in some weird visuals when those pieces are placed near zones.
Is this the same reason that things like S-curves don't have sidewalk textures? By default, they lack sidewalks, even with zones implemented. (A texture modification would be an easy solution... Remember Sithlrd98's textures for all the WRCs and FARs?) Even if it isn't the reason, there's also that one square that comes with the starter piece that fails to show a sidewalk texture.
Then,... How did you guys get grass/sidewalk textures for the transition pieces...? ()what()
Anyway,...
Oh wait,... It's a CDS texture... (iWonder where that came from... ::) )
- GDO29Anagram
A CDS texture? What's that? ()what() I may know quite a few thinks about SC4 Modding, but I have no idea what that is... $%Grinno$%
PS. It seemes like your[Tarkus's & superhands's] texture mod is progressing quite well. You and Superhands should keep up the good work! :thumbsup:
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 30, 2010, 03:01:35 PM
SIPs, Tarkus? That'd be a great idea. $%Grinno$% Maybe the addition of filler pieces would also do some good; I mean, there are FPs for RHW, why not for NWM? (Last time I addressed this, someone said that the Neighbor connection piece would work just as well, but what I had in mind were FPs for single-tile networks and especially for OWR-based networks; I can show one practical application...)
I concur fully on adding fillers. I'll fast-track it on the list of features for the next version. Using the Neighbor pieces for those purposes will lead to some . . . odd results in some instances.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 30, 2010, 03:01:35 PM
I'm just wondering how a diagonal-diagonal OWR-4 or OWR-5 crossing would work; I thought about it myself and the only way it'd work is through the SIPs that you mentioned... (One step at a time, I guess...)
It'll probably be kinda messy. :D Fortunately, I've been getting a lot more comfortable with diagonal stuff as of late, but that one will still be kind of a doozy.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 30, 2010, 03:01:35 PM
(OWRs, or whatever code in the game runs them, can't tell what direction they're going and therefore traffic lights may be facing the wrong way... I figured that out through a lot of research... And actual trial and error... iGuess that's why rail crossings with OWR-2 have gates on both sides, even though it's one-way... SIPs would finally solve that problem; Would rail crossing SIPs for OWR networks be implemented as well?)
Exactly right on the OWR mechanics there . . . it's an .exe-locked thing, too. I hadn't thought about Rail crossing SIPs, but that sounds like a fine idea.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 30, 2010, 03:01:35 PM
I'm also thinking that the ultimate nightmare is diagonalising the AVE-6 and TLA-7 and intersectionising that monster, especially at diagonals... (One step at a time, tackle ortho crossings for now...)
Going too far ahead, aren't I...? :-[
Hey, I'm already thinking about NWM Version 3 and RHW 6.0 . . . and we're not even to NWM Version 2 or RHW 4.2 yet. :D
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 30, 2010, 03:01:35 PM
Then,... How did you guys get grass/sidewalk textures for the transition pieces...? ()what()
Hence why I stuck in the "generally" part--my favorite "hedging word". ::) If a piece is small enough and situated in the right manner, it can be possible to provide limited sidewalking support on them. It tends to be idiosyncratic still in those cases, however, as evidenced by the graphical issues a few users have run into with those pieces.
-Alex
I like how the diagonal-orthogonal intersections are coming, Alex. Fractional-angle NWM and SIPs sound like they would be good additions, too. I've always thought the Maxis OWRs seemed just a little weak, mainly because of the traffic lights. So, I'm guessing the SIPs would basically be TULEPs without the turning lanes. Am I right?
QuoteiGuess that's why rail crossings with OWR-2 have gates on both sides, even though it's one-way... SIPs would finally solve that problem; Would rail crossing SIPs for OWR networks be implemented as well?)
Then I must live in the game, because too many places I drive through, the OWR's are like that, just before I think I have a way across, it turns out there are do not enter signs, and I am not suppose to drive that direction, after watching the gates finally rise up. I don't know why bother put gates on each side of the track in that case then, same goes for draw bridges, not that we will see those in this game again, anytime soon.
Metarvo, if road x OWR-2 and OWRxOWR existed, would you still think it was weak after?
Is that the avenue connection trick that was used for a temporary RHW connection?
Well, Thanks for those answers!
...but I will clarify a few things you (mostly) didn't get the way I meant you to (which was bound to happen with pictures only...)
1.)
The first pic wasn't meant to point out the difference between the two s-curve-pieces - I'm asking, why there are puzzle pieces coming up (like the transition on the right), that support base-textures/sidewalks, while it doesn't seem to be possible for smooth curves etc. ...
I read your post on this... but I didn't get your answer... at all to be honest :D
2.)
In the top of the second pic, I was wondering, why I am getting that sidewalk-texture on my RHW3, while before (last version) I had the same grass-texture as the MIS - which fits a lot better for RHW of course
3.)
You already answered the questions on the two other things of the second pic... just wanted to add that the broader-than-necessary(-now) RHW-transition doesn't bug me when zoning, but mostly when terraforming, and that I didn't want the same smooth curve for OWR1 as the MIS, just a slightly smoother curve than there is (but thats just me of course... I'm using them anyway :D)
4.) (Split!) Transitions, SPIs, NMAVE-4... awesome! (even though I'd personally prefer NMAVE-4 over TLA-7, MAVE-6 and OWR4/5 (I just don't have enough room for those :P)... but again, whatever, just my point of view)
You probably already know, but I'll still tell you:
Great things are coming from you (speaking of the whole team of course) and we're all grateful!
Sincerely
Yuyu
Quote from: j-dub on September 30, 2010, 08:24:44 PM
I don't know why bother put gates on each side of the track in that case then, same goes for draw bridges, not that we will see those in this game again, anytime soon.
I know many times it is done for emergency purposes. In Poughkeepsie, NY, there are 2 large one way roads that got east/west. the West bound is north of the city and the east bound is south. Anyways, there are traffic lights at all intersections facing the "wrong" direction and it is for 1. like you said in case someone is driving the wrong way or 2. so that in evacuations or other mass travel where they need to switch the direction of travel, they can do so while still having safe intersections.
that actually makes a lot of sense, more than the explanation i came up with :p
&idea
iThink I just figured out why the textures are all weird for all the NWM transition pieces, especially with the AVE-2 to AVE-4 transition:
1. There are four kinds of textures for one particular unit of road network: No wealth (IE, no grass or no zoning), low wealth, medium wealth, and high wealth.
2. The low, medium, and high wealth textures are used exclusively for low-density development, while the no wealth textures are used for both higher density development and when there's no zones touching the road network.
3. The fact that the AVE-2 to AVE-4 transition piece requires medium or high density to show the sidewalks and grass properly tells me that the no wealth textures also have grass, resulting in the strange "grass effect" concerning zoning along a transition piece and removing the zones afterwards.
Actually, the main thing with the whole wealth thing has to do with the meaning of the seventh digit of the Instance ID (IID) assigned to textures and segments of puzzle pieces. (Warning: Technical explanation follows . . . ::))
IIDs in general, with respect to modding, are 8-digit hex numbers, prefixed by "0x", for example, 0x51131000 is the IID for the MAVE-4/Street + Intersection. With regards to transit textures, the eighth digit is reserved to deal with zoom (generally, 0 for Zoom 1 up to 4 for Zoom 5, though these can be offset in some situations). The seventh digit deals with wealth and affects the texture displayed if it is zone-adjacent. In most standard cases (as in the case of our example above, 0x51131000), it works as follows:
0 = No Wealth/Unzoned
1 = Low Wealth/Low Density
2 = Mid Wealth/Low Density
3 = High Wealth/Low Density
4 = Low Wealth/Mid-to-High Density
5 = Mid Wealth/Mid-to-High Density
6 = High Wealth/Mid-to-High Density
7 = Agricultural
Seems simple enough so far, right? Well, the whole nature of puzzle pieces throws a little kink into it.
Without going into a whole dissertation about RUL files, puzzle pieces use the 6th and 7th digits for purposes of positioning. A base "IID" (the "AutoTileBase") is defined, which corresponds to the upper-left corner of the puzzle piece. All the other segments of the puzzle piece are assembled according to where the sixth and seventh digits of their IIDs, which correspond to X and Y-coordinates.
If you have a 1x2 puzzle piece set up as follows:
|
|
assuming an AutoTileBase of 0x5CEB0000, the top tile is going to assume the AutoTileBase definition. The other piece needs to have the IID 0x5CEB0010. So in other words, the IID that the lower piece needs to have also happens to correspond to the IID that would be used for the Low Wealth/Low Density wealth texture for the upper piece. So they conflict very heavily--the seventh digit is "overloaded". Depending on how that piece is designed, it can lead to the lower texture showing up
underneath the upper piece--the "wealth-level glitch", which was epidemic in RHW Version 2.0.
As such, wealthification of puzzle pieces was not really bothered with for some time, but eventually found its way onto some smaller pieces of more recent origin. The NWM transitions are really the first wide-scale implementation of it, and it still has some quirks to it.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 02, 2010, 07:04:11 PM
3. The fact that the AVE-2 to AVE-4 transition piece requires medium or high density to show the sidewalks and grass properly tells me that the no wealth textures also have grass, resulting in the strange "grass effect" concerning zoning along a transition piece and removing the zones afterwards.
Actually, the no-wealth textures are grassless. Some clever IIDing had to be done in order to get the wealth textures to show up at all on there, and that's one of the side effects of it. That piece is (by far) the largest to get wealthing treatment.
Now on another note . . . you know how I said the NMAVE-4 was a "long term" project, in large part because it was missing intersection textures? Well, a certain transit armadillo burrowed some out . . . and some paths to go with them.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg203.imageshack.us%2Fimg203%2F5189%2Fnwm100220101.jpg&hash=decc0bbe5e7f1820ad708b8045305dfccaf0a62e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg697.imageshack.us%2Fimg697%2F8432%2Fnwm100220104.jpg&hash=e53f60a73344e5799ee5c96963aaf7684f07a887)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg827.imageshack.us%2Fimg827%2F4387%2Fnwm100220103.jpg&hash=f40a15efa14c8df6d328879b08901ad4dc9764b0)
The main thing left is T-Intersections between the NMAVE and the other NWM networks, and Wide-Radius Curves. Then it'll be up to the same specs as all the other single-tile NWM networks.
There's a lot more where that came from . . . a lot more that I'm not quite ready to reveal yet. ::) Suffice to say, I'm really quite excited about the future of the Network Widening Mod. :)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on October 02, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
...
0 = No Wealth/Unzoned
1 = Low Wealth/Low Density
2 = Mid Wealth/Low Density
3 = High Wealth/Low Density
4 = Low Wealth/Mid-to-High Density
5 = Mid Wealth/Mid-to-High Density
6 = High Wealth/Mid-to-High Density
7 = Agricultural
...
Whoa whoa whoa, Tark, slow down... There's MORE?!! :o (iThought it was just 0, 1, 2, and 3... Then what's 8, 9, a, b, c, d, e, and f used for...?)
First of all, iThought that since I've been modding textures that "end" with 0, 1, 2, and 3, the texture that "ends" with 0 is shared with all the higher densities and no wealth. (Note that when I say "end" enclosed with quotation marks here, I'm actually referring to the seventh digit.)
What you're telling me (As far as I can deduce) is that if there is no texture for 4, 5, 6, and 7, the 0 texture will be assigned for the missing textures. (I'm making a texture mod, and I'm beginning to think that I'm missing something; You can MODIFY THE HIGHER DENSITY TEXTURES?!!
I THOUGHT THE NO WEALTH AND HIGHER DENSITY TEXTURES WERE SHARED!!! Trying that... Now...)
I read the NAM's own DAT files, and discovered that several textures, the OWR to Road transition texture and the Street Roundabout textures for example, only has one texture, which just "ends" with 0, resulting with just one texture being used for everything. I assigned textures for the values 1, 2, and 3 for those things, thereby proving my theory that having no textures assigned for 1, 2, and 3 (At the very least) will just have the 0 texture fill in the missing bits.
So many things that I've figured out myself (Terraforming being one, lot editing being another, and most recently is texture modification), and now you've flooded me with more information that I never knew existed that concerns textures...
Hexadecimal, I can understand. So what you're also telling me is that the values you've shown me that would otherwise be assigned to wealth textures are being used for something else, which results with weird things with starter pieces, especially with RHW 2.0, and now, with NWM transition pieces...?
What next, paths?!! (There's gotta be a separate thread for these things... If there is, you really have to show me... That'd be appreciated...)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 02, 2010, 10:28:51 PM
Whoa whoa whoa, Tark, slow down... There's MORE?!! :o
Oh yes, a lot more. :D Transit modding's a pretty big field. Heck, I don't know everything myself.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 02, 2010, 10:28:51 PM
(iThought it was just 0, 1, 2, and 3... Then what's 8, 9, a, b, c, d, e, and f used for...?)
The game does not use them/recognize them as part of a wealth ID scheme. I actually started taking advantage of this last year with the NWM to be able to put more textures in a smaller IID range. If you look over the NWM .dat file, you'll notice some of the ARD-3 T Intersections, which need to have two forms, use 0-7 for one form and 8-F for the second. (i.e. 0x51023100 and 0x51023180)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 02, 2010, 10:28:51 PM
What you're telling me (As far as I can deduce) is that if there is no texture for 4, 5, 6, and 7, the 0 texture will be assigned for the missing textures.
Yes, but with whatever wealth-appropriate sidewalk underneath it, filling in any transparent spot on the texture.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 02, 2010, 10:28:51 PM
(I'm making a texture mod, and I'm beginning to think that I'm missing something; You can MODIFY THE HIGHER DENSITY TEXTURES?!!
Yes, though it's not particularly common knowledge. Most people just know about 0-3.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 02, 2010, 10:28:51 PM
So what you're also telling me is that the values you've shown me that would otherwise be assigned to wealth textures are being used for something else, which results with weird things with starter pieces, especially with RHW 2.0, and now, with NWM transition pieces...?
Exactly. I think part of it is that EA/Maxis hadn't really anticipated there'd be a bunch of modders out there making flat-plane-model puzzle pieces. The original contents of the straight-out-of-the-box version of RUL 0x10000000 (the puzzle piece RUL file) is pretty much exclusively Maxis Highway-related stuff, and they had things worked out there to avoid these sorts of glitches there.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 02, 2010, 10:28:51 PM
What next, paths?!! (There's gotta be a separate thread for these things... If there is, you really have to show me... That'd be appreciated...)
There's a few tutorial threads floating around . . . if you're wondering about how paths work,
Blue Lightning's tutorial can be found
here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7219.0). It's an interesting read.
As far as I know, there isn't anything quite this wacky that affects paths, though. ::)
-Alex
Sweet, I love the way the NMAVE4 looks! And I'm getting pretty curious what are the other things that you're "not quite ready to reveal yet" $%Grinno$%
Woah, NMAVE-4 is really looking good! Those sidewalks sure are tiny :)
--
Just a quick mockup, but has anyone ever thought about this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg535.imageshack.us%2Fimg535%2F2546%2Fglrmave4.jpg&hash=3dcfa9174e58d4857b341b8e5d44e7d21a1bb88c) (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/glrmave4.jpg/)
So it's a Tram-On-MAVE-4, if someone didn't notice :)
^^ I have thought of that, but never made a texture for it. It looks good ;)
looks really good.
mauricio.
I feel like i am hijacking this thread with my own creations or something, anyways decided to post this.
When you are bored, you'll do anything:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg340.imageshack.us%2Fimg340%2F5905%2Fglrmave4.png&hash=a4628cfad343baa4edbacc89b43c6f0b63af6e25) (http://img340.imageshack.us/i/glrmave4.png/)
The rails look weird, my texture making skills aren't really great (copy&paste + some gimp stuff) ;D
Looks pretty good I've to say although I think it would look more natural if the rails were sharing the middle 2 lanes with the avenue ;)
I like this method better. It might not be realistic (i mean, replicated in the real world as much) but it should be. It doesn't let the light rail (which is based off passengers and stations, not parking lots and driveways) become isolated from the area.
I've learned in lecture that if planners put the light rail on the outside of the roads, they become more connected with the retail corridors that are often used or considered for light rail use in the first place. Just my thought.
And, io_bg, isn't the sharing of the middle 2 lanes already implemented with rail in road? I mean not really, but I would like to see this method first.
Quote from: Ciuu96 on October 03, 2010, 12:19:03 PM
I feel like i am hijacking this thread with my own creations or something, anyways decided to post this.
When you are bored, you'll do anything:
It looks like an inside-out Light-Rail in Avenue piece... In that case, I'd like to see a real-life example of that, so that there'd be some semblance of practicality.
Plus it'd be better if the inner lanes were shared with the GLR, like what io_bg said. (iMight just generate a texture for that... I've gotten well adept at that...)
Well, I personally like Ciuu96's idea, mainly because we already have a setup where the rails are shared with the inner lanes. I like it so much so, that I've created an American version of the puzzle piece texture:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnego.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2Fglrmave4.png%2F167455309%2Fglrmave4.png&hash=a8dd3c8073a8b1b42146d16ad74efaab633cfef6)
What do you guys think?
Well, first criticism, there's a couple real issue with having them there, the radii of the curves have to be wide, blowing out the size of intersections beyond the actual road footprint. That's why many RL tram systems are in the middle of the road.
At traffic lights, almost every movement of trams require their own light cycle, independent of road traffic.
But the biggest one:
Trams are sharing space with pedestrians which is usually a BIG Public Liability no-no.
Rail vehicles and cars don't mix.
Rail vehicles and Pedestrians don't mix (for the lack of a better word) more.
It's also a well-established fact that pedestrians in RL don't look where they're going.\
EDIT: Another one, when deconverting to the existing Tram-In-Avenue, there will have to be some kind of traffic control, to stop cars/busses while trams are crossing into the median.
Just my (counts) 4 (revised) 5 cents.
hello Alex
whether it is possible to design Avenue that is with 3-4 lanes in each direction as the middle not with asphalt but with a standard maxis Avenue division.
My other idea is whether you can make pieces intersections of size 3x3 and 4x4 to be used when crossing larger Avenues and wide one-way streets
%confuso %confuso %confuso
Well, things along these lines are in development, AVE-6 is confirmed for eventual release as a three-tile network I believe, but I believe AVE-8 is not on the cards. Tarkus will be able to elaborate though.
Quote from: jdenm8 on October 03, 2010, 08:32:56 PM
But the biggest one:
Trams are sharing space with pedestrians which is usually a BIG Public Liability no-no.
Rail vehicles and cars don't mix.
Rail vehicles and Pedestrians don't mix (for the lack of a better word) more.
It's also a well-established fact that pedestrians in RL don't look where they're going.
Well, as usual, everything is a bit different in Europe, where trams through pedmalls and right though the middle of a city - on top of the road - are common. Naturally, separated tracks are a lot better for the traffic flow, but trams and pedestrians actually mix pretty well, like in Mannheim/Germany, where you can find a pedmall system that covers the whole city center - and the tram goes right through it, allowing customers to arrive and depart by tram wherever they want, instead of walking long distances.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Ff%2Ff6%2FMannheim_Fu%25C3%259Fg%25C3%25A4ngerzone_1.jpg%2F800px-Mannheim_Fu%25C3%259Fg%25C3%25A4ngerzone_1.jpg&hash=014e3fc789e8678b2ac0c43432f798cd87d829d4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fe%2Fed%2FMannheim_Fu%25C3%259Fg%25C3%25A4ngerzone_2.jpg%2F800px-Mannheim_Fu%25C3%259Fg%25C3%25A4ngerzone_2.jpg&hash=8eae4b504d2b079bae45ec03fafe1200322de000)
I also confirm Andreas post.
Here are some pictures from Darmstadt, where the traffic-center is in the middle of the city (see attachment).
I agree with the above posts that trams on pedestrian streets are quite common in Europe (in Bulgaria, too).
Quote from: ivo_su on October 04, 2010, 02:48:02 AM
hello Alex
whether it is possible to design Avenue that is with 3-4 lanes in each direction as the middle not with asphalt but with a standard maxis Avenue division.
My other idea is whether you can make pieces intersections of size 3x3 and 4x4 to be used when crossing larger Avenues and wide one-way streets
%confuso %confuso %confuso
AVE6/8 would be pretty cool. So would be those intersections (when using wider one-way streets as avenues with a median).
Glad that you guys like the idea! :) Nego's american texture also looks great!
Just a (offtopic?) question: Are there any tutorials on making puzzle pieces? I mean, i might do more of those textures, just experiementing with this idea (and maybe with other stuff too), and i would like to try things in the game too. I am a real beginner in modding, i haven't ever done anything even related to modding, but still would like to start from somewhere.
^^ Yes, they are. In fact, I've one quite finished on the Private Boards! It's quite ready for the public, but I need permission to move the tutorial over to the public NAM Tutorial section...
Andreas,
We in America aren't too different. Here in Baltimore our light rail light (albeit out only line) shares the sidewalk with pedestrians for about 3/4 of its downtown traverse on Howard Street.
I feel that this type of network has sooo many working pieces that it might need to be on another tab icon rotation
I live in Bmore too, and Ive never seen the lightrail run on pedestrian streets, shares with howard street for sure, but not a pedestrian route, and if it is, People are more than likely not allowed to cross the tracks at all :) American lawyers would have a field day if someone ever got hit trying to cross the tracks in those german pictures, this is why you wouldnt often see this in the US.
But, we should prolly get this thread on topic, I would LOVE to see more pedestrian enable GLR pieces, as we only have the straight pieces now, they only problem is all the pedmall variations would need their own textures, and that would be a ton of menu pieces/tab rings (dual networks cant be draggable right?)
In the city center of Amsterdam, lightrail are running right through pedestrian zones quite often. In the Hauge this happens in less occasions, but still there are some places where pedestrians and trams have to share space...
Tram speed in pedmalls is restricted to 25 kph (15 mph) or similar, so collisions are hardly serious, and usually there should be enough time for the driver to stop the tram, or for people crossing the tracks with moderate risk. I figure it's just a matter of what people are used to, like driving through a roundabout (probably still a mystery to many Americans) or using a center turning lane ("suicide lane", probably something Europeans would never dare).
Heh, now if that wasn't a smart turn back to the original topic... ;)
I would like to see something like this in the Next NWM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nycsubway.org%2Fi48000%2Fimg_48307.jpg&hash=c5e1150e88240cc71d2aba0af4b33bd981e3d1c5)
or this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nycsubway.org%2Fi38000%2Fimg_38687.jpg&hash=051a6310ff24216a3daa50e7123790b1c0cfaf7f)
or this
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nycsubway.org%2Fi88000%2Fimg_88335.jpg&hash=14a874bf14b78db3c2b8b623131feed80b6ae14d)
So i can recreate the Northeastern Region better...
I still cant figure out why people here think its so hard to use roundabouts ... and actually recently in the US (at least where I live) Ive been seeing a lot more of them being built, especially in rural areas. We do have a ton of "suicide Lanes" too, I live off a road with one
Also, nexis, wats the difference between this and a tram-ave or tram-road? I dont really see any differences
Quote from: travismking on October 04, 2010, 10:34:26 AM
I still cant figure out why people here think its so hard to use roundabouts ... and actually recently in the US (at least where I live) Ive been seeing a lot more of them being built, especially in rural areas. We do have a ton of "suicide Lanes" too, I live off a road with one
The main thing I find is that folks don't use their turn indicators in the roundabouts, which, at least here in Oregon, is the law. But no one ever follows it and it's never enforced, so it also basically defeats the entire purpose and causes the roundabouts to act like nothing more than vastly overpriced 4-way stops. If you know the intent of the other motorists in the circle when you're approaching it, they actually work alright.
Quote from: Nexis4Jersey on October 04, 2010, 09:48:19 AM
I would like to see something like this in the Next NWM
That's also more in the T-RAM vein . . . we're not going to be directly dealing with Tram/Rail stuff here aside from crossings with it. Which allows me to segue back into being on-topic. :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg826.imageshack.us%2Fimg826%2F1887%2Fnwm100420105.jpg&hash=af576524f3d21e7579e1858a7eccdb2f26c768ff)
The NMAVE is really in great shape right now. Just a little bit left to go.
-Alex
Quote from: travismking on October 04, 2010, 10:34:26 AMI still cant figure out why people here think its so hard to use roundabouts
We have a two-lane roundabout (although we call'em rotaries) that has a highway, a main road, and two side roads that travel through it. People don't understand that the highway traffic is going fast and often don't look as they cross the highway. Google Image (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.466858,-71.395576&spn=0.007329,0.013797&t=h&z=16). The development there is a maximum security prison.
On a side note: Has anyone noticed that dragging roads over certain SAM starter pieces makes a NWM texture? I don't remember which ones, but I think there are three, and cobblestone is one of them.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on October 04, 2010, 12:03:38 PM
On a side note: Has anyone noticed that dragging roads over certain SAM starter pieces makes a NWM texture? I don't remember which ones, but I think there are three, and cobblestone is one of them.
I haven't seen it myself, but it makes complete sense. The "false intersections" with the Street network used for SAM starters use a lot of the same cross-components as the Road and OWR overrides used in the NWM.
-Alex
Alex,
Great work on the GLR/NWM crossings. I hope that new T-RAM and GLR-AVE/NWM crossings puzzle pieces are coming as well.
Peace,
Kevin
NMAVE-4 is looking good :thumbsup:
The new T-RAM ideas seem really interesting as well! Don't want to distract from the topic at hand however :D
Alex, I'd agree 100% that if motorists fail to signal before they exit roundabouts it defeats most of the purpose. On a more SC4-related note, is any integration planned between NWM networks and OWR- or AVE-roundabouts? MAVE-4 into avenue roundabouts is particularly appealing to me ::)
And not sure if this is the correct thread, but is a gradual road-to-avenue transition planned (similar to the existing AVE-2 to AVE-4)?
As always thanks to the NAM team for all you do &apls
I know, at least in New Jersey, we call them circles. They are being phased out, but you can still see some of them scattered around the state. Here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&ll=40.796284,-74.341017&spn=0.002278,0.004823&z=18) is what used to be a circle, or roundabout, but now it's just a darranged blob. The signs in NJ look like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fnj%2Fgsp%2Fcircle.jpg&hash=4c18795f12d686314fe58b1559e88c687f986a7d)
Probably strange to most of you...
I've also never liked the idea of a reversible lane. ()sad() That's why I'm glad that as of right now, they can't be made functional in SimCity. /wrrd%&
PS. The NMAVE looks great, Tarkus! Can't wait for more development pics!
Edit:
Regarding the Tram-On-MAVE-4 development, I've also made an intersection texture of the Maxis Road and the tram-on-MAVE-4 if anyone was wondering how that was going...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FNego16%2FSimCity%2FDevelopment%2FTram-On-MAVE-4%2Fglrmave4roadintersection.png&hash=f5a36167649ca34d985fa3b993bd2a8e5fcc117b)
What do you guys think?
Roundabouts are quiet come here in NJ , i think theres 70+ statewide. (all types) Can we get some NWM Roundabouts so i can recreate my state.
A lot of the new intersections in suburban baltimore in residential areas are being done as roundabouts, to slow people down, not to mention the 2 lane circles in commercial areas ... i hate two lane circles cuz most americans cant even drive in 1 lane circles, so lets make it two lanes and twice as confusing :p
I've been playing with the NWM quite a lot lately and I have to say it's really great. There are some things that could make it even greater though.
What I'm really missing is a OWR-3 to MAVE-6 transtition and a Maxis (ground) highway to MAVE-6 (or OWR-3) transition. Is somebody already working on that? A split/join of OWR-5 to OWR-3 + OWR-2 would also be nice. I could try my hand in drawing some textures for that if nobody has done something already. (Are maxis highway transitions actually textures or real models?)
Great work everyone! :thumbsup:
Just a quick something I would like to point out...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg180.imageshack.us%2Fimg180%2F5954%2Fcorners.png&hash=16828ffe9e8567472e2de4288d4aad483c42509f)
I noticed that some textures in the NAM have nice rounded corners, whereas some don't - for instance the SAM. I always thought the square edged corners looked lethal, especially on diagonals.
PS. I keep seeing road cul-de-sacs everywhere, but I can't find them anywhere ()what()
Quote from: Dexter on October 05, 2010, 12:33:40 PM
PS. I keep seeing road cul-de-sacs everywhere, but I can't find them anywhere ()what()
That's part of a retexturing mod by
superhands and
Tarkus as seen below. It just so happens that it makes the corners smooth instead of 90º. Ironic, huh?
Quote from: superhands on September 24, 2010, 08:19:43 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2FM4.jpg&hash=3e4790fbcb7b82001f63277402faa617f042d05a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi293.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm50%2Fbighead99999%2Fo1.jpg&hash=acfded852bd5826b4ad143cdba782b14edc24210)
It's still under development, though...
Qoting myself...
Quote from: michi_cc on October 05, 2010, 09:03:12 AM
What I'm really missing is a OWR-3 to MAVE-6 transtition
Some photoshopping later (not perfect, but better than nothing):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg43.imageshack.us%2Fimg43%2F6686%2Fmave6owr3trans.png&hash=635b572078597a135a97eb7a15d280d4f00a33b2)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg713.imageshack.us%2Fimg713%2F2712%2Fmave6owr3.png&hash=22a56ead8402bfe6f0bd40c6a01f2170644c3ad0)
I've no idea how to code that though.
^ Looks great! :thumbsup:
I'd like to ask, though, can we expect that re-texturing mod soon? ::)
Quote from: noahclem on October 04, 2010, 01:17:37 PM
On a more SC4-related note, is any integration planned between NWM networks and OWR- or AVE-roundabouts? MAVE-4 into avenue roundabouts is particularly appealing to me ::)
Quote from: Nexis4Jersey on October 04, 2010, 05:44:23 PM
Roundabouts are quiet come here in NJ , i think theres 70+ statewide. (all types) Can we get some NWM Roundabouts so i can recreate my state.
Roundabouts are on the "eventually" list. There probably won't be much in the way of development on that end until after Version 2. In order to make it such that MAVE-4s can hook into Avenue roundabouts, it'll require adding some additional functionality for interfacing the default Road network with them.
Quote from: noahclem on October 04, 2010, 01:17:37 PM
And not sure if this is the correct thread, but is a gradual road-to-avenue transition planned (similar to the existing AVE-2 to AVE-4)?
There was one planned at one point . . . in fact, I had a prototype at one point, but wasn't happy with some of the modding on it so it kinda fell by the wayside, and I don't think I have the files for it anymore. I think the piece would still serve a significant need, so I'd classify it in the "eventually" category.
Quote from: Nego on October 05, 2010, 01:04:14 PM
That's part of a retexturing mod by superhands and Tarkus as seen below. It just so happens that it makes the corners smooth instead of 90º.
Actually, all the credit goes to
superhands on the mod.
Quote from: michi_cc on October 05, 2010, 01:23:39 PM
Qoting myself...
Some photoshopping later (not perfect, but better than nothing):
I've no idea how to code that though.
I do already have some textures laying around for that transition, but I have to say, that looks very nice! That transition is planned and will be implemented as a draggable setup rather than a puzzle piece. Already have a fairly good idea of how to code it . . . the main thing I need to figure out is where to place it in the IID scheme.
Quote from: Dexter on October 05, 2010, 12:33:40 PM
I noticed that some textures in the NAM have nice rounded corners, whereas some don't - for instance the SAM.
The SAM predates a lot of the more recent rounded corner work, and due to how some of the SAM textures are laid out (particularly some of the brick sets), it can get kinda tricky.
Quote from: io_bg on October 05, 2010, 01:38:09 PM
I'd like to ask, though, can we expect that re-texturing mod soon? ::)
Well, as with all NAM items, there's no release date or timeline for release. :)
-Alex
-Alex
Could you comment on the proposals which did
would be glad to know your opinion on them
Quote from: ivo_su on October 05, 2010, 02:35:31 PM
-Alex
Could you comment on the proposals which did
would be glad to know your opinion on them
The multi-lane Avenues? Well, an AVE-6 is definitely planned and is actually coming along nicely on the development end.
The AVE-8 (and its TLA counterpart, the TLA-9) are planned as well, though they're not quite as far along. Since they don't actually add any functional capacity beyond the AVE-6/TLA-7 as far as the game is concerned, they're not as high a priority. The methods being used for implementing them also allow for the easy creation of asymmetrical AVE-7s and TLA-8s.
The intersections you described sound kind of like some TuLEPs that are on the drawing board as well.
-Alex
Thanks for the quick response I hope soon to be a fact your new developments
just one more thing
Is it possible the design of the parking strip to be added to the rightmost lane of the streets and Avenues
and I apologize for the harassment that you create with all my questions
- Ivo
Quote from: Tarkus on October 05, 2010, 02:06:23 PM
I do already have some textures laying around for that transition, but I have to say, that looks very nice! That transition is planned and will be implemented as a draggable setup rather than a puzzle piece. Already have a fairly good idea of how to code it . . . the main thing I need to figure out is where to place it in the IID scheme.
Thanks. Meanwhile, a hackish Maxis highway to MAVE-6 transition. The colour mismatch is straight from the highway-avenue transition texture. (No idea if it would fit in-game, the highway-avenue transition seems to have some additional 3D models.)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg85.imageshack.us%2Fimg85%2F1546%2Fmave6hwtrans.png&hash=0c685b6c3807d9508ab8988b2bfca07510ae6a8f) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg842.imageshack.us%2Fimg842%2F8570%2Fmave6hw.png&hash=ad937fd2548dfb228482cc7a745cb872b4fa5b35)
EDIT: And the same for Maxis highway to OWR-3:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg843.imageshack.us%2Fimg843%2F1600%2Fowr3hwtrans.png&hash=a6f268b686a218b5c6217c5ad8a08b91074e2a4b) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg839.imageshack.us%2Fimg839%2F6239%2Fowr3hw.png&hash=ee4dc54d5ed45705a26b5a205f3d3a96d3084079)
Great work.
I guess it would be great for people that use the original Maxis highway texture. On my old, existing Maxis highways, I use Mrtnrln's Highway ReStyling and that would require different transition works. The scale with Mrtnrln's also is not exactly the same as Maxis'.
That's a tidy looking transition, but you're right. The transition is a 3D model and I think that's partly why the pick-up on custom MHW transitions like those has been slow (though there has been work on some recently).
And a suggestion, could we have some kind of RTL-esque plugin for smooth lead-ups for avenue roundabouts (for the MAVEs)? The abrupt entry to the roundabout on AVE-4s just... doesn't look quite right and I think there is the space on the tiles (for MAVE-4 and AVE-4 anyway) for the textures. I could probably even make some textures up if needed.
If it's not possible (or not in the foreseeable future) that's okay.
I have holidays coming up so anything is possible :thumbsup:
My two cents here-- I feel the Maxis Highway is a great network, even if the community's abandoned it, as to me, it's best for representing older urban highways in the cores, such as Chicago's Dan Ryan pre-reconstruction, with all the terribly short ramps and tight spaces. Beyond that, I feel that the RHW represents modern highways, so I tend to use conversions between the two, as it gets into the urban core. For me, siuch a transition would be great, as I could make more European style downtowns, where the highway transforms into a regular road. In addition, it would make separated MHWs, especially the elevated ones, more usable, as one could convert an arterial OWR 3 or such into a viaduct for some downtown construction uses. I'd really love to see this piece be considered, even though I have no skill for these moddings. I'd love to learn, but... I'm kinda dense with this stuff.
Some ideas for OWR-4 and OWR-5 joins and splits (Pics still include unmodified OWR around):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg193.imageshack.us%2Fimg193%2F1484%2Fowr4owr2owr2.png&hash=5dabaf7d58b8bc3dbc02212b642f21096045fce6) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg338.imageshack.us%2Fimg338%2F356%2Fowr4owr3owr1.png&hash=312ecdf28a3c67ca2b941756a2e7a97e957939c0)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg198.imageshack.us%2Fimg198%2F1162%2Fowr5owr3owr2.png&hash=64dcbb2b66ee658e353cc89a919f7eb83c51c7db) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg831.imageshack.us%2Fimg831%2F3170%2Fowr5owr4owr1angle2.png&hash=5aabe332dfbbf1eebebf7c4fa7e257c6bdbba4a4) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg825.imageshack.us%2Fimg825%2F5834%2Fowr5owr4owr1.png&hash=60bdc8b1b74cceff64d00ca414747cfd53e081d5)
EDIT: Didn't really like the OWR-4 to OWR-3 / OWR-1 transition. The two diagonal OWR-1 pieces are unmodified (as well as the straight OWR on both sides).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg375.imageshack.us%2Fimg375%2F7231%2Fowr4owr3owr1angle.png&hash=2af3100e64c95254485fa3fd8f4ff8d3b5f1e81b)
michi_cc: That OWR-4 split into 2 OWR-2 is EXACTLY what I need for most of my RHW+NWM Interchanges!
Wow . . . :o That is some absolutely fantastic work, michi_cc--and fast, too! I'm really very impressed. :thumbsup:
-Alex
That is.... very impressive! &apls It seems like you're doing it for years!
Quote from: Tarkus on October 06, 2010, 01:34:09 PM
Wow . . . :o That is some absolutely fantastic work, michi_cc--and fast, too! I'm really very impressed. :thumbsup:
Well, thanks to copypasta and Photoshop's freeform transform and the stamp tool, creating those s-bends is totally easy.
Slightly improved OWR-5 to OWR-4/OWR-1 and a different OWR-5 to OWR-3/OWR-2 following:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg121.imageshack.us%2Fimg121%2F1098%2Fowr5owr4owr12.png&hash=1c961fa6dcd0890114c74e1dc850c8b42d9f2806) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg692.imageshack.us%2Fimg692%2F5232%2Fowr5owr3owr2angle.png&hash=185af75a575ad2163fd514c27496e673d5b7ee5c)
Those look like some of the RHW ramps. But yes, they are amazing!
Yep.. very nice work! &apls
Very useful for roads in city centers! :)
QuoteAnd a suggestion, could we have some kind of RTL-esque plugin for smooth lead-ups for avenue roundabouts (for the MAVEs)? The abrupt entry to the roundabout on AVE-4s just... doesn't look quite right and I think there is the space on the tiles (for MAVE-4 and AVE-4 anyway) for the textures. I could probably even make some textures up if needed.
If it's not possible (or not in the foreseeable future) that's okay.
Oh, it is possible. And it can be done quite easily, in fact. Feel free to work on some textures for it. However, it's probably best if they do mirror each other, it makes it easier to RUL.
I'm working on it :thumbsup:
I've already done a leadup, but I don't know if it'll be sharp enough. I also can't find the texture where AVE-4 joins the the roundabout to use as a basis.
This is it so far anyway:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2FRHW%2Fmave4_roundabout_leadup.jpg&hash=ab98d262f184aa1708cd85ca401c5113f12c3c69)
The only real modifications I've made are on the two top thirds (128x128). The bottom third should be straight, but may not be.
With all this talk about roundabouts (Which I'll abbreviate as RAs), I want to say a few things:
- How are we gonna connect the AVE-6, TLA-6 or MAVE-6 to an RA? Are we gonna have to make a supersized RA?
- iKnow a little secret... It is currently possible, with the current version of the NAM and NWM, to get a TLA-5 and an OWR-2 to connect to an AVE RA. And when I say OWR-2, I mean get it connected with the area that's normally supposed to orthogonally connect with an AVE-4... With some limitations... The trick involves a little bit of lightrail in the RA.
I might as well explain the method right now, since I just moved to a new computer (And haven't DL'd CamStudio yet, and therefore can't make a video demo): Simply use any of the RAs that have GLR in it. Destroy the GLR parts INSIDE the RA, as you would with the "grassy" parts of a normal RA. There's likely to be some more GLR left where the GLR-AVE-4's usually connect, and to remove those, just drag some El Rail clear across those bits, then remove the El Rail stubs.
If this confuses you, I'll go ahead and make the video later on...
I wish I could get in on this recent surge of texture creation for proposed NWM transitions, but I don't have the textures (Yes you do, just raid all the DAT files...) or the tools to modify them (Yes you do, you got Paint.NET, Inkscape, and GIMP...). What do you use anyway, Photoshop?!!
And one thing, jdemn8, those RA textures are likely in the DAT file for the AVE RAs (It ends with Roundabouts Avenue), found in the plugins subfolder of the NAM folder. Is that where you searched for the textures? Or what it somewhere else?
Duh... *facepalm*
I completely forgot that they were in their own DATs...
Yeowtch... There is very little room on this texture...
Nice! NWM can be turned in somewhat a compact RHW for dense areas :thumbsup:
Quote
Slightly improved OWR-5 to OWR-4/OWR-1 and a different OWR-5 to OWR-3/OWR-2 following:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg121.imageshack.us%2Fimg121%2F1098%2Fowr5owr4owr12.png&hash=1c961fa6dcd0890114c74e1dc850c8b42d9f2806) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg692.imageshack.us%2Fimg692%2F5232%2Fowr5owr3owr2angle.png&hash=185af75a575ad2163fd514c27496e673d5b7ee5c)
I like it but I would just rather see it incorperated into the TuLEPs. It would basically be the same but the single (or double) OW would intersect the four (or Three or Five) OW and the lanes that would be turning would basically be turn only lanes. Basically you go into the intersection with 5 lanes, the two left most lanes are turn only, and you leave the intersection with only 3 lanes.
EDIT: Found a picture. This is in the City of White Plains which is just north of NYC in Westchester county. As you can see, you are looking down a six lane OWR. The intersecting rd is a 2 directional rd. You can see, the left most lane is a turn left only and the right most lane is a turn right only. This narrows the OWR down to four lanes after the intersection. (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnewyork.sierraclub.org%2Flhg%2FImages%2FDowntown_White_PLains.gif&hash=04844095c11478feae0e27b8bb72145f45d9896b)
Firefighter, I could also envision what you just showed happening with TuLEP's, at least the arrows, but if that NY one you posted, where the lanes narrow right after is even considered, a special intersection piece would need to be made in order for that to work, which I did not think off-set straight a way OWR traffic light intersections were planned.
In either case of development, whether splits or TuLEPs, you know are going to take a long time to get going anyway. Regular Maxis wide OWR TuLEP's still have yet to be finalized. Its just I don't think splits should be in the same tab ring as ortho TuLEPs, and deserve their own tab ring, IF later in production.
MAVE-compatible roundabout:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg840.imageshack.us%2Fimg840%2F2749%2Framave.png&hash=117a0840486bcf3d60f26e1cf58a811663302b51)
The roundabout still fits inside the 4-by-4 squares of the standard avenue RA and the inside is almost the same as well. This does mean that it is not possible to have three lanes going a complete half-circle. Either two additional tiles outside the square would be needed for that, or the RA itself needs to have a smaller diameter which would not leave any space for a statue/park in the middle.
If I didn't mess up somewhere, all the different exits should be freely combinable.
Would it be possible to have lane-change paths in the RA, or is that something the automata don't really support. (Incidentally, some extra lane change paths every few tiles would also be very nice for MAVE-6 and OWR-3, the middle lane is quite often totally empty even if the outer lanes are jammed.)
Cool!
Nice design michi_cc! I like your OWR connections too. Great work! :thumbsup:
I've done a bit more, but it seems the job of making textures has been hijacked somewhat.
I still don't know how it'd look in-game and if it (the angle) would be sharp enough.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2FRHW%2Fmave4_roundabout_leadup_a.jpg&hash=b62e7eab78a43c2d12718e1081e7ed83582a9a21)
And this is how it looks mirrored:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2FRHW%2Fmave4_roundabout_leadup_d.jpg&hash=4abb2ef371edaef022387da824b06713ad1dce18)
@ michi_cc: WHOA!!! iDid not expect that*...
A few things: I want to see that with the grid set up. (Nah, I can just copy the pic and overlay a grid on top...)
What did you use for the RA? Did you Photoshop a piece of the MAVE-4?
Here's what I'm thinking: Automata impossibilities include double-decker networks of the same network; Cars'll jump between the two decks... iThink your request is possible, but iWanna hear it from a NAM associate as well... The problem I personally see is all the textures and coding/pathing needed to make the RA compatible the way you illustrated. I'm not sure myself, since I know nothing of how the NAM's put together; iJust know how textures are assigned...
But as I said before, how would AVE-6 be connected (It's a three-tile network) and if we're gonna want an RA to connect to an AVE-6, we're gonna need a 5X5 RA...
I just remembered: There are plans for another asymmetrical network that Tarkus dubs as AVE-5. (Tark, in my opinion, that's a misnomer; Its more accurate name should be MAVE-5 or ARD-5). It's a combined MAVE-6 and MAVE-4; How would you connect that to an RA? (That's a stupid question; it's a half-and-half fix for that...)
Maybe I should try making something...
* - I meant your picture of the RA with the connected MAVE-6, MAVE-4, AVE-4, and OWR-1. Your recent picture, however, may need more smoothening out. I wanna try out making a smoother one...
Wait,... Can't we just use the MAVE-4 to AVE-4 transition piece and then slam an RA on top of the AVE-4 bit...?
In my mind, MAVE-6 will have to lose a lane for the purposes of the roundabout. It's not too unusual here for a six-lane avenue to lose a lane on both sides on approach to a four-lane roundabout. You just can't have three lanes coming off of a two-lane roundabout.
AVE-6 will be a problem though. Here anyway, most six-lane roads (if losing a lane isn't an option) are built with an overpass (usually four-lane) following the primary route over any roundabouts. You usually have to take an offramp (exiting lane and new lane) down to the roundabout.
Is it just me or is the OWR nwm starting to turn into a secondary RHW? :D
QuoteIn my mind, MAVE-6 will have to lose a lane for the purposes of the roundabout. It's not too unusual here for a six-lane avenue to lose a lane on both sides on approach to a four-lane roundabout. You just can't have three lanes coming off of a two-lane roundabout.
Alternatively, you can have the extra lane become a slip lane. Pretty common here, too.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 08, 2010, 06:45:57 PM
I just remembered: There are plans for another asymmetrical network that Tarkus dubs as AVE-5. (Tark, in my opinion, that's a misnomer; Its more accurate name should be MAVE-5 or ARD-5). It's a combined MAVE-6 and MAVE-4; How would you connect that to an RA? (That's a stupid question; it's a half-and-half fix for that...)
MAVE-5 is actually its official name, and the one I used
back in June (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg330298#msg330298). It's also referred to that way in the little bit of RUL 0x10000002 code that's been in place for it since before the first release.
The "ARD" designation is kind of an odd one-off right now . . . there is one more ARD network planned, however--a dual-tile ARD-4, which is basically a 3+1 setup, along the lines of
Southeast Morrison Street in Portland, OR (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=SE+Morrison+Street&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=&hnear=SE+Morrison+St,+Portland,+Oregon&ll=45.517211,-122.659728&spn=0.001148,0.002642&t=k&z=19). It is being looked at in terms of long-term, post-Version 2 asymmetrical network efforts.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 08, 2010, 06:45:57 PM
Wait,... Can't we just use the MAVE-4 to AVE-4 transition piece and then slam an RA on top of the AVE-4 bit...?
Yes, that is indeed possible--this is what it ends up looking like:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg840.imageshack.us%2Fimg840%2F4632%2Fnwm100920101.jpg&hash=cb52734a2ee037ac5b2966e2f65e1a9fbf8ad818)
I'm intrigued by the other ideas proposed here as well, and admiring the nice texture work. :) The implementation aspect with further roundabout functionality is ultimately key. The existing Avenue Roundabouts are set up along the lines of FLEXFly--a "paradraggable" puzzle piece (paradraggable = not actually draggable, but mimics prime aspects of draggable functionality after plopped). Thus, within reasonable limits, it should be possible to create a larger variety in this manner for use with wider networks, though it may end up being a fair bit of work. The other idea that's been thrown around is a Roundabout-equivalent to TuLEPs, which I've coined "RABETs" (
Round
about
Extention
Tiles).
-Alex
QuoteHere's what I'm thinking: Automata impossibilities include double-decker networks of the same network; Cars'll jump between the two decks...
Technically, it isn't an impossibility. ;)
It
can be worked around. But it's kind of finicky to do.
As we're speaking of roundabouts... What about some bigger ones, say 3 or 4 lanes wide and 6x6 tiles big? ::) They would look more realistic with MAVE6 and RHW6 I think.
@ michi_cc: Wow! More great work!
@ jdenm8: nice! &apls
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 08, 2010, 06:45:57 PM
What did you use for the RA? Did you Photoshop a piece of the MAVE-4?
Yeah, the base are straight MAVE-4 and MAVE-6 tiles which I bended with Photoshop. The lanes are again parts of the straight pieces brought into form with the freeform grid. Some selective erasing and stamping for the finish. It's quite fast that way.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 08, 2010, 06:45:57 PM
But as I said before, how would AVE-6 be connected (It's a three-tile network) and if we're gonna want an RA to connect to an AVE-6, we're gonna need a 5X5 RA...
I just remembered: There are plans for another asymmetrical network that Tarkus dubs as AVE-5. (Tark, in my opinion, that's a misnomer; Its more accurate name should be MAVE-5 or ARD-5). It's a combined MAVE-6 and MAVE-4; How would you connect that to an RA? (That's a stupid question; it's a half-and-half fix for that...)
Are there any graphics for AVE-6? Connecting a three-tile network would indeed mean a 5x5 RA, which brings some nice complications with two-tile networks as they can't be connected in the middle any more. (Drawing that isn't the big problem, but you'd have to mod a lot more combinations.)
AVE-5 (or whatever you want to call it) should be no problem indeed, just combine the MAVE-6 and MAVE-4 pieces (only the currently transparent median of the MAVE-4 pieces would need to be filled for a nice look.)
Quote from: Tarkus on October 09, 2010, 01:42:19 AM
The other idea that's been thrown around is a Roundabout-equivalent to TuLEPs, which I've coined "RABETs" (Roundabout Extention Tiles).
As I can't mod that stuff, I couldn't care less how it would be modded :) As far as I can see, you have your fingers in most of the projects anyway ;)
EDIT: Transitions from ARD-3 to MAVE-4 and AVE-4:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg530.imageshack.us%2Fimg530%2F6472%2Fmave4ard3.png&hash=262af5a973acd31a2f2f89ef3a6a37db017ab0bf) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg709.imageshack.us%2Fimg709%2F3818%2Fave4ard3.png&hash=6b6621f5fce3c61ad24008fa1ed5bcef3e0db702)
As for making the textures with Photoshop, I tend to let the BAT do all the bending work for me. Much faster that way.
Anyway, for making 5x5 roundabouts... it wouldn't really matter if the 2-tile networks entered off-centre. I've had some ideas for making a 4x3 roundabout for avenues to interface with normal 2-lane roads, as well as "micro-roundabouts", which would be 1x1 and plopped on road or street intersections.
@ michi_cc: more great textures! Nice work! &apls
Quote from: io_bg on October 09, 2010, 05:10:34 AM
As we're speaking of roundabouts... What about some bigger ones, say 3 or 4 lanes wide and 6x6 tiles big? ::) They would look more realistic with MAVE6 and RHW6 I think.
I also think it would be super
if someone hire to do it will carry the game into a new dimension
and I think we all are very satisfied
michi_cc, you've outdone yourself yet again! Those look fantastic. :thumbsup:
Quote from: io_bg on October 09, 2010, 05:10:34 AM
As we're speaking of roundabouts... What about some bigger ones, say 3 or 4 lanes wide and 6x6 tiles big? ::) They would look more realistic with MAVE6 and RHW6 I think.
The long-term design plan for the RHW for some time now has had the RHW-4 being the largest network allowed to have at-grade surface crossings. RHW networks with 6 or more lanes are intended to be strictly access-controlled networks, so they won't be getting any sort of roundabouts or intersections (aside from overpasses/underpasses). Besides, that's what the OWR-4, OWR-5, MAVE-6, AVE-6, TLA-7, AVE-8 and TLA-9 are for. :)
Quote from: michi_cc on October 09, 2010, 06:13:50 AM
Are there any graphics for AVE-6?
There are--and I've attached some below. :)
And since we're on the subject of AVE-6s and transitions . . . here's what's in place so far:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg192.imageshack.us%2Fimg192%2F1120%2Fnwm052320101.jpg&hash=4eb975b7c74bcaa597c25219bb4a14d6e3f37b1b)
This one's actually got two modular transition pieces . . . a center tile one that allows for switching between triple-tile AVE networks (AVE-6/8) and triple-tile TLA networks (TLA-7/9) and one allowing for switching between 3 and 4 travel lanes in one direction. It also shows all six possible triple-tile networks (TLA-7, 8 and 9; AVE-6, 7 and 8).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg196.imageshack.us%2Fimg196%2F9171%2Fnwm052320103.jpg&hash=c8b6d4a67593d7072b1acfc89f27fc4f05d91d58)
-Alex
I'm so disappointed to hear that there will be bigger and wider roundabouts
make me cry :'( :'( :'(
it is not fair
- Ivaylo
TLA-9?!! AVE-8?!! iThought the absolute limit was TLA-7 and AVE-6!!!
So with the setup of TLA-7 and TLA-9 similar to that of RHW6c and 8c, that means it's possible to make... EVEN-NUMBERED TLAs!!! (I didn't pay attention to what you wrote, just the pictures... Heh heh...)
What's more is that I've seen an actual real-life setup for a TLA-4 in the city in which I live in.
I wanna organise stuff: There are three types of non-OWR networks: AVE, MAVE, and TLA. At this point now, I'd say that ARD would be a redundant name; It's still a type of MAVE. (Could we replace that name...?)
Let's see what network combinations are possible and theoretical (The boldfaced ones are non-existent ones):
AVE-2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8.
MAVE-2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8.
TLA-3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.
For AVE and MAVE, odd-number notation denotes asymmetry, whereas in TLA, even-number notation denotes asymmetry. How feasible is it to make these kinds of things?!! (If we run out of SPs, that's where problems are gonna arise... How many SPs can there be?!! I know there's 16 in the SAM, but how many are there for Road...? I know double and triple tile starters will greatly multiply the number of possible starter pieces, but I'm rather curious to know if we have enough starter pieces...)
TRAM integration would be another story...
The nightmare has ballooned out into a full-out hell: How in the world are we gonna organise EVERYTHING IN THE NWM?!!
Whoever said that the NWM is a second RHW was right... iPredict that by Version 3 or 4, its setup is exactly like that of RHW (In terms of how many menu buttons there are), but we're gonna need more breakdown in starter pieces... And transition pieces... (I'd propose organising starter pieces by AVE, MAVE, TLA, and OWR; The current method is a mess...) I'm confident that the NWM team will achieve this; This is still version 1.1.1 (or something), and there's still room for improvement...
I honestly didn't expect things to accelerate so fast, but maybe it's because I never witnessed the progress of RHW, so I don't have any first-hand experience... I feel I should contribute in any way I can... But if so, let it be by organisation at this point.
Here's the part where I comment on your pictures: For the AVE-4 to 6 transition, the median should be set so that it's like an actual lane (Imagine if it were TLA-5 to 7 instead), since it has inconsistent width throughout the actual transition.
Another thing: With how T21 exemplars are set, how would a median be set for AVE-6, AVE-7, and AVE-8? (That's also another story, I guess...)
Speaking from experience, GDO - when things get rolling, they really get rolling!
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 10, 2010, 03:52:30 PM
TLA-9?!! AVE-8?!! iThought the absolute limit was TLA-7 and AVE-6!!!
Three tiles
are enough for a MAVE-10 ;D (Blue lines denote tile borders; not prettified)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg838.imageshack.us%2Fimg838%2F658%2Fmave10.png&hash=79f7ae34c79c52509608853303b10eec2ef1c64e)
Quote from: ivo_su on October 10, 2010, 03:47:44 PM
I'm so disappointed to hear that there will be bigger and wider roundabouts
make me cry :'( :'( :'(
it is not fair
- Ivaylo
Actually, if you look over my post more closely, you'll notice I did not exclude the possibility of bigger and wider roundabouts. Quite the contrary, in fact. I merely excluded the possibility of the RHW-6S/6C connecting into them. Interfacing would be accomplished by NWM networks and Maxis Roads, OWRs and AVEs.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 10, 2010, 03:52:30 PM
TLA-9?!! AVE-8?!! iThought the absolute limit was TLA-7 and AVE-6!!!
Nope. :) In fact, the TLA-9 has been on the drawing board since the original NWM private development discussions almost 4 years ago. We've just never really mentioned it until now. The TuLEP designs on the docket for the OWR-5 will also allow it to function similar to an quadruple-tile AVE-10.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 10, 2010, 03:52:30 PM
I wanna organise stuff: There are three types of non-OWR networks: AVE, MAVE, and TLA. At this point now, I'd say that ARD would be a redundant name; It's still a type of MAVE. (Could we replace that name...?)
I'd agree the ARD-3 is basically a single-tile cousin of the MAVE, and classifying it as one does have a certain degree of logic to it. However, how would one define this network (which is planned)?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg96.imageshack.us%2Fimg96%2F1965%2Fard4.png&hash=d44d320db8ef1f8a04a2300ea2500ef43fcf2f1e)
We've already got a MAVE-4 . . . ARD-4 seems to make the most sense.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 10, 2010, 03:52:30 PM
So with the setup of TLA-7 and TLA-9 similar to that of RHW6c and 8c, that means it's possible to make... EVEN-NUMBERED TLAs!!! (I didn't pay attention to what you wrote, just the pictures... Heh heh...)
What's more is that I've seen an actual real-life setup for a TLA-4 in the city in which I live in.
I'm aware of quite a few TLA-4s and AVE-3s here in Oregon, too. In fact, those two networks are planned for inclusion after Version 2. The preliminary design I have in mind involves a dual-tile setup along the lines of the as-of-yet unreleased Type C Road TuLEPs, where one of the lanes is off on its own tile, resulting in a true, functional asymmetrical capacity. I still have to figure out how AVE-5s and TLA-6s will work, though.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 10, 2010, 03:52:30 PM
For AVE and MAVE, odd-number notation denotes asymmetry, whereas in TLA, even-number notation denotes asymmetry. How feasible is it to make these kinds of things?!! (If we run out of SPs, that's where problems are gonna arise... How many SPs can there be?!! I know there's 16 in the SAM, but how many are there for Road...? I know double and triple tile starters will greatly multiply the number of possible starter pieces, but I'm rather curious to know if we have enough starter pieces...)
Actually, we won't really need much more in the way of starters, believe it or not. Why? Well, prepare for a mind-blowing revelation . . . when you're placing a TLA-5 starter, the stubs you're actually placing are a TLA-3 starter next to something called a "NWM Road +2-Starter", which is essentially "dummy" network tile which adds 2 lanes to a Road-based single-tile network.
A side-by-side override is then coded to transform the combination of TLA-3 next to NWM Road +2-Starter into a TLA-5 upon placement of the puzzle piece. Similarly, the TLA-7 starter is actually a TLA-3 starter sandwiched between two NWM Road +2-Starters, and the MAVE-4 is an ARD-3 (in a specific rotation) next to an NWM Road +1-Starter.
The RHW has actually operated on this same paradigm since the developmental builds of 2007, when it was being switched from the "side-by-side" method of Versions 1.2 and 1.3 over to a starter piece setup.
There are no dedicated dual-tile network starters in either mod--it's all modularization, re-use and encapsulation.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 10, 2010, 03:52:30 PM
The nightmare has ballooned out into a full-out hell: How in the world are we gonna organise EVERYTHING IN THE NWM?!!
Whoever said that the NWM is a second RHW was right... iPredict that by Version 3 or 4, its setup is exactly like that of RHW (In terms of how many menu buttons there are), but we're gonna need more breakdown in starter pieces... And transition pieces... (I'd propose organising starter pieces by AVE, MAVE, TLA, and OWR; The current method is a mess...) I'm confident that the NWM team will achieve this; This is still version 1.1.1 (or something), and there's still room for improvement...
The RHW's kind of been building itself into an organizational crisis as well over time, which we think we've found (an at least a partial) solution for by going from a "by-type" to a "by-network" setup in one of the next releases. I think the breakdown of AVE/MAVE/TLA/OWR you've suggested fits in with that concept quite nicely, and I think that'd be a front-runner for a new organizational paradigm once we get to that point.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 10, 2010, 03:52:30 PM
Another thing: With how T21 exemplars are set, how would a median be set for AVE-6, AVE-7, and AVE-8? (That's also another story, I guess...)
The center tile is shared between all three textures . . . and since zone-activated T21s won't be an option (as the center tiles are "roadlocked") they'll have to be on all the time.
Quote from: michi_cc on October 10, 2010, 05:11:10 PM
Three tiles are enough for a MAVE-10 ;D (Blue lines denote tile borders; not prettified)
Very interesting . . . I hadn't really considered expanding the MAVEs beyond the MAVE-6 really, but I kinda like that.
-Alex
AVE-10, Tark?!! Now you're REALLY pushing it... :o
iDidn't think of radically asymmetrical roads like the one you've shown... In fact, I've never seen that kind or asymmetry... Ever.
Maybe ARD would be used to describe a radically asymmetrical MAVE...? After all, you called the hybrid MAVE-4/MAVE-6 a MAVE-5... (And I wanted to criticise you for not calling it an ARD-5 at first... MAVE-5 also makes sense...)
No, better: If the term "ARD" were to be abolished from all of the NWM, a proposal of classifying them as MAVEs would be as follows: For your example, A MAVE 1+3 (One lane on one side, and three lanes on the other, and the number of lanes would be in order of least to greatest.) No, that'd be too complicated... In fact, my first option of using ARD to describe radically asymmetrical MAVEs would make better sense... But we still gotta know how many lanes are on each side... (So it'd be ARD 1+3...?)
QuoteThere are no dedicated dual-tile network starters in either mod--it's all modularization, re-use and encapsulation.
I've always known that there were rail-based constituents (IE, the starters for AVE-2, TLA-3 and ARD-3) for the two-tile starters, but an explanation of the OWR "pseudo-starters" also was in order...
So one tile is a true starter, the other's a "dummy". So how many "dummies" are there? Multiply that by the number of... Wait,... If the nMAVE and ARD-4 are gonna be released in the next version, and if they're both one-tile networks (iKnow the nMAVE is...), where are you getting the SPs for those?
That means,... There'd be FIVE single-tile starters (Four if the ARD 1+3 isn't single-tile), and "x" amount of dummies. iJust wanna know the number of dummies there is, so iCan figure out the number of... Permutations of starter pieces...
Quote...and since zone-activated T21s won't be an option (as the center tiles are "roadlocked") they'll have to be on all the time.
iGuess that'd make sense, since it'd be uncommon (And rather stupid) to see something a massive AVE-6 or AVE-10 dumped in the middle of nowhere... Especially with a median like that of the AVE-4... Now this makes diagonalisation and intersecting even more complicated...
Someone mentioned MAVE-10. Here's my previous list of possible networks, now revised so that everything goes up to 10:
AVE-2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10.
MAVE-2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10.
ARD-4 (Or 1+3). I don't know what others would be proposed... Maybe a 2+4...?
TLA-3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11. TLA-11 would REALLY be pushing things to the limit... But TLA numbering is offset by 1, on account of the "median"...
OWR-1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. No-one propose OWR-6, please.
There are twenty-seven types of possible puzzle-piece derived networks, assuming the asymmetrical ones only have one extra lane on one side, plus five for the OWR networks, plus one more for the ARD-4 you showed, and one more for the nMAVE. There are 38 different surface street networks, that includes all the default networks and Street. We've gone from Street, Road, Avenue, and One-Way Road to 14 different types of networks, that could later become 18 later on...
This is definitely another RHW (But for non-controlled access highways...), with the OWR compared to the MIS, and all the other OWRs compared to RHW-4, 6s, 8s, and 10s, and all the others being crazy variations of c-type RHWs (such as 6c).
EDIT: Crossed out some stuff...
QuoteI know double and triple tile starters will greatly multiply the number of possible starter pieces, but I'm rather curious to know if we have enough starter pieces...)
We can combine series of single-tile starter pieces to get more use out of them. It's kind of like how the RHW works. So even though we might only have 16 starter pieces to work with, we still can have plenty more.
Oh, and...
Quote(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg838.imageshack.us%2Fimg838%2F658%2Fmave10.png&hash=79f7ae34c79c52509608853303b10eec2ef1c64e)
...makes me think a centre-tile MAVE-6 would be not a bad thing at all. We already have a centre-tile MAVE-4 - that's the NMAVE-4.
It'd be handy for transitions from 6 to 8, anyway.
Roads looks really good.
Hello, I am new to SC4 and these mod's and I was hoping you fin people could help. I installed all the appropriate mods and all appears to be working great, however I can not figure out how to transition from a TLA5 to a regular 2 lane road. Is this possible? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Sorry, but you cannot directly convert from TLA-5 to Road.
You must deconvert to the built-in Avenue (AVE-4) first, then to road or AVE-2.
Hope this helps :thumbsup:
Quote from: Tarkus on October 10, 2010, 02:59:24 PM
The long-term design plan for the RHW for some time now has had the RHW-4 being the largest network allowed to have at-grade surface crossings. RHW networks with 6 or more lanes are intended to be strictly access-controlled networks, so they won't be getting any sort of roundabouts or intersections (aside from overpasses/underpasses). Besides, that's what the OWR-4, OWR-5, MAVE-6, AVE-6, TLA-7, AVE-8 and TLA-9 are for. :)
Well, I agree that one-level intersections on highways aren't realistic, but what if a highway (say RHW6) ends at a roundabout ;) I guess we'll be able to convert it to a (M)AVE at least.
I would like to see how it would look AVE - 10
please if finished piece or section of the texture show it to me
(Important for me is how it will look not asphalt lanes and a middle section)
These new AVE's look great. Are you still planning on releasing the NMAVE-4 with the next update? What is it's status?
I was bored, so I was messing around with some textures, and I decided to go overboard :P
MAVE-16 (5 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg823.imageshack.us%2Fimg823%2F1426%2Fmave16.png&hash=6e91da8047314a38461eb1d6c6b105e354a5850e)
TLA-15 (5 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg121.imageshack.us%2Fimg121%2F1957%2Ftla14.png&hash=feff3060f988a0dde296c9fdefbb21f63d1d686f)
AVE-14 (5 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg259.imageshack.us%2Fimg259%2F7064%2Fave14.png&hash=9a0bcc10961940d2dd835c9b60e6131d9c41e094)
Also, I did:
MAVE-5 / ARD-5 (2 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg252.imageshack.us%2Fimg252%2F8494%2Fmave5.png&hash=11dd09fc04fcb98b1b238e8f9ee8ea4998f48593)
AVE-3 (2 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg195.imageshack.us%2Fimg195%2F4642%2Fave3.png&hash=e3aa7112142a5f882bebf34a6cc25c01a9c673cb)
Your friend,
Jordan :thumbsup:
Heh heh... :D
Kinda reminds me of the RHW-26...
That's awesome... &apls
Quick, do an even-numbered TLA... I'd love to see one...
I present.....
A TLA-297
-image removed due to size-
threestooges
Global Mod
Umm, Im REALLLLY sorry about that. I did'nt mean to put it in an image and now I can't edit the post..... ()what()
Ummm, nice TLA-297 marsh......
Anyways, here's some even-numbered TLAs
TLA-4
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg163.imageshack.us%2Fimg163%2F8374%2Ftla4.png&hash=b9c929c8d44c15d85588cc977b21710872f81e3a)
TLA-6
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg339.imageshack.us%2Fimg339%2F581%2Ftla6.png&hash=9337eaef6e47e572f37256c81435ba6ffeef17d7)
-Jordan :thumbsup:
Quote from: marsh on October 11, 2010, 04:04:51 PM
Umm, Im REALLLLY sorry about that. I did'nt mean to put it in an image and now I can't edit the post..... ()what()
Oh snap. How long is that? The width of a 2x2 city tile?
Nice job, canyonjumper. You (Among others) are a texture-generating machine...
Now we got something for the eventual inclusion of more asymmetrical networks...
And whoever asked about the nMAVE-4...? Last I checked, a few intersections were already created. iDon't know anything else though...
And as of the TLA-297...? Marsh, is it really that massive...? A medium city tile...?
Quote from: marsh on October 11, 2010, 04:04:51 PM
Umm, Im REALLLLY sorry about that. I did'nt mean to put it in an image and now I can't edit the post..... ()what()
Sure you can! :) Just go up to your username then go all the way to the right. There, you should see "Modify", in between "Quote" and "Remove".
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 11, 2010, 04:37:54 PM
Nice job, canyonjumper. You (Among others) are a texture-generating machine...
I have to agree! That's some great work you've done there,
canyonjumper!
Nego: no thats the problem; The page got screwed up, I can't even select the edit or delete button
Also; that road in RL would be almost Half a mile wide
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 11, 2010, 04:37:54 PM
Nice job, canyonjumper. You (Among others) are a texture-generating machine...
You're welcome to join me at CSGchat (http://wbe02.mibbit.com/?settings=3008fb2ae30d2290bd0c211edef67ce6&server=irc.mibbit.net&channel=%23CSGchat), I'm posting pics as I make them :thumbsup:
@canyonjumper MAVE-16 looks beautiful. I would jump at the chance to build a garden-ring style road with that tool. The AVE-3 is interesting too
Quote from: canyonjumper on October 11, 2010, 03:29:04 PM
I was bored, so I was messing around with some textures, and I decided to go overboard :P
MAVE-16 (5 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg823.imageshack.us%2Fimg823%2F1426%2Fmave16.png&hash=6e91da8047314a38461eb1d6c6b105e354a5850e)
TLA-15 (5 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg121.imageshack.us%2Fimg121%2F1957%2Ftla14.png&hash=feff3060f988a0dde296c9fdefbb21f63d1d686f)
AVE-14 (5 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg259.imageshack.us%2Fimg259%2F7064%2Fave14.png&hash=9a0bcc10961940d2dd835c9b60e6131d9c41e094)
Also, I did:
MAVE-5 / ARD-5 (2 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg252.imageshack.us%2Fimg252%2F8494%2Fmave5.png&hash=11dd09fc04fcb98b1b238e8f9ee8ea4998f48593)
AVE-3 (2 tiles)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg195.imageshack.us%2Fimg195%2F4642%2Fave3.png&hash=e3aa7112142a5f882bebf34a6cc25c01a9c673cb)
Your friend,
Jordan :thumbsup:
That looks great!
Quote from: marsh on October 11, 2010, 04:01:30 PM
I present.....
A TLA-297
That's hilarious! $%Grinno$%
It's quite a high capacity road.
Jordan, nice work on the textures, but I don't really see the point of having so wide avenues ()what()
Quote from: io_bg on October 12, 2010, 04:30:45 AM
Jordan, nice work on the textures, but I don't really see the point of having so wide avenues ()what()
Me too
where are the unseen elements AVE 4 in this "AVE-14"
there just a blank space
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg259.imageshack.us%2Fimg259%2F7064%2Fave14.png&hash=9a0bcc10961940d2dd835c9b60e6131d9c41e094)
we could you show me with texture whit median like AVE-4 but to be put on AVE-6, 8 or more
Quote from: ivo_su on October 12, 2010, 05:32:46 AM
we could you show me with texture whit median like AVE-4 but to be put on AVE-6, 8 or more
In future versions of NWM there'll be AVE6 and 8 ;) (which, of course, have medians)
Quote from: io_bg on October 12, 2010, 05:46:26 AM
In future versions of NWM there'll be AVE6 and 8 ;) (which, of course, have medians)
I hope you're right, in its opinion
although they do not know where you are so confident in your words my friend
()what()
Well, all AVEs are just like the Maxis ones (aka AVE4) except that they have more (or less) lines. ::)
Quote from: io_bg on October 12, 2010, 06:27:14 AM
Well, all AVEs are just like the Maxis ones (aka AVE4) except that they have more (or less) lines. ::)
where are you so sure that
and almost as easy to transfer median from AVE-4
a wider variety of AVE
Like I said, all AVEs have medians. I guess you were confused with MAVE, which means Medianless AVEnue. And don't worry, I'm pretty sure there'll be a lot of transitions for the future AVEs and MAVEs. When Alex and the rest of the team have anything interesting done, they'll show us pictures.
Now, I guess, we should put an end to our little chat in this thread :)
Quote from: io_bg on October 12, 2010, 04:30:45 AM
Jordan, nice work on the textures, but I don't really see the point of having so wide avenues ()what()
The first couple were just me fooling around, Though nowhere close to what marsh was doing :P
Since there seems to be a little confusion about "AVE-10", let me attempt to put my initial quote back in its original context:
Quote
The TuLEP designs on the docket for the OWR-5 will also allow it to function similar to an quadruple-tile AVE-10.
In other words, there will be no true "AVE-10"--you'll be able to build something similar with twinned OWR-5s and TuLEPs, however. The AVE-8 is the cutoff point.
And yes, I instantly was reminded of my old RHW-26 gag from a few years back upon seeing some of the creations here. :D
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on October 12, 2010, 07:49:38 AM
Since there seems to be a little confusion about "AVE-10", let me attempt to put my initial quote back in its original context:
In other words, there will be no true "AVE-10"--you'll be able to build something similar with twinned OWR-5s and TuLEPs, however. The AVE-8 is the cutoff point.
And yes, I instantly was reminded of my old RHW-26 gag from a few years back upon seeing some of the creations here. :D
-Alex
Alex, you and I rejoice with the new release of NVM and TULEPs before Christmas
I dream about this kind of network for many years
- Ivaylo
Si in the future, will there be light rail within OWR, TLA or any other road system?
Light rail in the center turn lane of a TLA would make that center turn lane a true 'suicide lane'.
Quote from: Ryan B. on October 12, 2010, 10:56:29 AM
Light rail in the center turn lane of a TLA would make that center turn lane a true 'suicide lane'.
hmm, these so-called "suicide lanes" are actually quite common over here
Really? Can you post a pic? I've actually never seen a real European-TLA...
Quote from: Tarkus on October 12, 2010, 07:49:38 AM
In other words, there will be no true "AVE-10"--you'll be able to build something similar with twinned OWR-5s and TuLEPs, however. The AVE-8 is the cutoff point.
And yes, I instantly was reminded of my old RHW-26 gag from a few years back upon seeing some of the creations here. :D
-Alex
Uhh,... Remember how I said that someone said that this was a second RHW?
Let me point out that
I misinterpreted one of your replies, Tarkus... (Stupid me...) But on a comparative note,... Saying that an AVE 10 would be composed of a twin OWR-5 has some semblance to how RHW-10 is set; There's no RHW-10c, but there is RHW-8s and 8c, and the NWM equivalent of that, for example, would be twin OWR-4's and an actual AVE-8. (I'm just saying...)
Oh,... Someone's been talking about TRAM integration into the NWM...? (Bandtip61, I believe...) In my opinion, TRAM integration would have to be exclusive for only AVE and MAVE networks (And maybe some ARD-based networks), and putting tracks on a TLA would truly be suicide; For the AVE, tracks are in the actual median (Think of the AVE-GLR pieces), and for the MAVE, the tracks would have to be shared with the inner lanes (Tram in Road would technically be TRAM AVE-2, and the Tram on road would be something for the nMAVE, but Tarkus said the textures weren't the right size; What were you doing with that, Tark, combine TRAM on Road with nMAVE?!!).
Discussing NWM-TRAM integration would ideally have to be done on either the TRAM network's dedicated thread or on a completely separate thread...
Can we get something like this , a one way street with Light Rail....
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4082%2F4819304465_04d735db99_b.jpg&hash=e703608816563bf496c17c1f9e233ebf08503034)
I wonder, if it better you get attention from the T-RAMmer's, since that is their specialty, and original OWR is a default network, but I don't see why not another addition, since avenue, road, and eventually streets all got treated with light rail traffic at some point. However, I don't know if such can be done to look exactly like that.
As for the suicide lanes, I thought San Fran had something where turn lanes and the tram or trolley line was in fact shared. Compared to Nexis4Jersey's photo, it does not seem as different, it looks like there is not much room from the parked cars, and rail to have a lane in between, and you actually have to drive on the rail. If you ever saw that movie Inception, that would be prime example of that type of suicide lanes when the US used to have heavy rails like that down some roads, except there would be forewarning and the bell ringing.
I do not know why so many commented tram mode and its variations. For me it is anachronistic that worked in the early 20th century but today suzdava much more congested than to relieve traffic. At least here in Sofia is. Most major cities in Europe and the U.S. have removed the tram lines and solved the problem with traffic thanks to the subway. Examples of this may be New York, London and Paris.
So in this line of thought why not get some work on the subway system. Here in Sofia metro Circular are 2 types. The first is a pipe with a rail in the station where it is placed between the 2 tubes and thus a common platform for both directions which is much more convenient. The second type is a tube with 2 rails and 2 platforms for each direction. In the sim has only one kind of unfortunately.
It would be very interesting if it were made so that the subway tunnels are of varying depths as anywhere. This will avoid those silly crossings of metro lines where they were not anywhere in the world. Everywhere the lines passed one below the other and not intersect. Let me please you and your opinion. And as long as these trams. There are many other guidelines which may improve the game.
Subways are mostly out of scope for the NAM Team, seeing as we can't really do much of anything with them. Their behavior is for the most part, exe locked, and weird things happen when we try stuff.
Though on the note of above ground light rail, many places in the US are turning to it as a solution. I know some Atlantic, Midwest, and Pacific cities have or are building LRT systems.
Quote from: Blue Lightning on October 13, 2010, 01:48:25 PM
Subways are mostly out of scope for the NAM Team, seeing as we can't really do much of anything with them. Their behavior is for the most part, exe locked, and weird things happen when we try stuff.
Though on the note of above ground light rail, many places in the US are turning to it as a solution. I know some Atlantic, Midwest, and Pacific cities have or are building LRT systems.
I want EA to fail so that we can change exe file as you want. It is not fair so stop development of the game with their copyrights. Sim City 4 years is what makes us so much hassle. When will allow us to change exe
^^ Wow! Now you're really pushing! &mmm Demanding a company to fail is to me a quite offensive statement. And failure of such a big company as EA is unlikely to happen. Also, there are some signs that there may be ways to mod the source code after all (by DLL-files and such), but I don't know much details.
Anyway, be more careful with what you wish next time. Some people might not like your statements...
Best,
Maarten
^^ I apologize if I touched him with their comments but I really want to be able to change many things in Sim City. There are many others thoughtless game which, thanks to people like you slowly eliminated and must still be allowed access EXE to the game
- Ivaylo
There's a large ton of stuff we can already do without modifying the exe, really. Mainly the biggest item that the NAM Team wishes we can fix is the puzzle piece - TE lot CTD issue, as the method that Maxis implemented is quite flawed, especially with certain piece layout and most notably, with the elevated rail network. Everything else is usually just nice things to have, ie proper double decker networks, new transit networks, etc.
Then add on what might happen with DLL files (interest and development has been rather slow lately though) and other game related things might prove to work better.
Quote from: ivo_su on October 13, 2010, 01:59:33 PM
I want EA to fail so that we can change exe file as you want. It is not fair so stop development of the game with their copyrights. Sim City 4 years is what makes us so much hassle. When will allow us to change exe
Given that EA is one of the largest game developers and publishers in the world, I'd say that's a very unlikely possibility--additionally, a lot of folks would be out of a job, which is the last thing we need in this economy. Suffice to say, the executable is still of considerable value to EA and if they do ever decide to continue the SimCity series, given the development history of past installments, it would be logical to speculate that they would be able to reuse substantial amounts of the existing SC4 code for that purpose.
As Vince mentioned above me, there's not much we'd be gaining with the .exe anyways. And the .exe is a very complicated piece of code, so it would take us a good long while of deciphering before we could even do anything with it.
Quote from: Nexis4Jersey on October 12, 2010, 05:20:28 PM
Can we get something like this , a one way street with Light Rail....
As I have mentioned before, Light Rail/Tram stuff is generally out of the purview of the NWM. A better place to discuss such content would be on the
T-RAM (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6361.0) thread.
Back on topic now . . .
Working on getting some of michi's stuff integrated:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg684.imageshack.us%2Fimg684%2F3621%2Fnwm101320101.jpg&hash=dfee8eaf28be9a0fc85cd2b680295d2d87aaeb60)
That's actually a draggable transition there--it fit into the same 2x2 footprint as the game's default Road-Avenue transition, so I just set it up to override when you hook in ARD-3 in instead of a Road.
-Alex
Thanks for the replies. I thought it possible to design something like bus lanes in the right lane of the AVE - 6, 8 and 10
I've seen that STEX already have something like a bus strip remains only to make pieces that can adhere to the new type AVE
- Ivaylo
Noticed you have 5000 posts Tarkus!! &apls Congrats! That's quite a milestone.
Not sure if this question is a appropriate for this topic, but considering people in this thread know all about the road networks I think it is.
Anyways on with the question, is it possible to get parked cars on the sides of the road networks? You can't go to any downtown in the world and not see parked cars and parking meters on the sides of roads. And now, with these extended networks like the OWR-3 and MAVE-4, they would be perfect. I assume it would be possible using ploppable functional pieces(which I am trying to learn how to do). But is there anyway to get them on draggable networks?
Not necesarily a request it was something that has plagued my mind recently.
Also does any one have a link to a manual or a extensive tutorial on iLives Reader? I am trying to learn how to do much more with SC4.
- Matt
Quote from: ivo_su on October 13, 2010, 01:44:15 PM
I do not know why so many commented tram mode and its variations. For me it is anachronistic that worked in the early 20th century but today suzdava much more congested than to relieve traffic. At least here in Sofia is. Most major cities in Europe and the U.S. have removed the tram lines and solved the problem with traffic thanks to the subway. Examples of this may be New York, London and Paris.
While this is certainly true for large cities, the main reason why there are still a lot of tram lines is simple: Building subways is very expensive, and only the largest cities can afford such a system. In Germany, many cities were planning a subway system in the 1960s, and quite a few actually started to drill tubes in the underground, but apart from Berlin, Hamburg, Munich and Nuremberg, no other German city was able to create a full subway system. Most other large cities, including Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Cologne, the cities in the Ruhr area, converted to a light rail system, which is underground in some parts, using surface or elevated tracks in other parts, and tram tracks on roads as well. Leipzig has one of the largest tram-only networks in Europe, for instance.
Quote from: Andreas on October 13, 2010, 03:15:31 PM
While this is certainly true for large cities, the main reason why there are still a lot of tram lines is simple: Building subways is very expensive, and only the largest cities can afford such a system. In Germany, many cities were planning a subway system in the 1960s, and quite a few actually started to drill tubes in the underground, but apart from Berlin, Hamburg, Munich and Nuremberg, no other German city was able to create a full subway system. Most other large cities, including Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Cologne, the cities in the Ruhr area, converted to a light rail system, which is underground in some parts, using surface or elevated tracks in other parts, and tram tracks on roads as well. Leipzig has one of the largest tram-only networks in Europe, for instance.
I know that many meat still using trams but the subway is a modern solution for all capitals and major cities. And hardly trams have a great future - though they stop in the congestion and traffic lights while on the subway that is gone. But no one said anything about any pipe with a rail in them.
- Ivaylo
@ivo_su: Depends on what you define as "modern solution". In 2000 1 km Subway cost around 100.000.000,- DM / 50.000.000,00 Euro, I don't have newer figures but I am sure the price has risen. And that is only drilling in "standard ground", no icing the ground water, no drilling through rock etc. and no station(!) included.
I don't have the price per km Tram way but for the price of 1 km subway you should be able to build a 10-20km Tramway line - including some stations!
In addition to this you need to lighten up subway stations, you need to provide escape tunnels in case of as well as a 24/7 emergency center, you need to ventilate the whole system etc. That's really expensive - and it's a continuous daily cost! Just think about the electric bill for all this (without the electricity for the trains itself!).
IMHO a modern solution is building a tube where it is necessary but otherwise stay in the daylight - be it elevated rail, standard rail or tramway. Keeping the tramway tracks off limits from the cars is not sich a big problems - fines, clever traffic planning, separated rails where possible etc can do a good job - given that you have some traffic engineers that do know their work (Istanbul is a good example what happens if you don't have good traffic engineers .... /wrrd%& )
And think about this: a tramway line can be build within some month, a subway line needs years ...
Quote from: Tarkus on October 13, 2010, 02:37:11 PM
As I have mentioned before, Light Rail/Tram stuff is generally out of the purview of the NWM. A better place to discuss such content would be on the T-RAM (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6361.0) thread.
-Alex
Don't mean to sound rude but perhaps this thread can focus on issues regarging the NWM?
Quote from: Nardo69 on October 13, 2010, 04:02:37 PM
@ivo_su: Depends on what you define as "modern solution". In 2000 1 km Subway cost around 100.000.000,- DM / 50.000.000,00 Euro, I don't have newer figures but I am sure the price has risen. And that is only drilling in "standard ground", no icing the ground water, no drilling through rock etc. and no station(!) included.
I don't have the price per km Tram way but for the price of 1 km subway you should be able to build a 10-20km Tramway line - including some stations!
In addition to this you need to lighten up subway stations, you need to provide escape tunnels in case of as well as a 24/7 emergency center, you need to ventilate the whole system etc. That's really expensive - and it's a continuous daily cost! Just think about the electric bill for all this (without the electricity for the trains itself!).
IMHO a modern solution is building a tube where it is necessary but otherwise stay in the daylight - be it elevated rail, standard rail or tramway. Keeping the tramway tracks off limits from the cars is not sich a big problems - fines, clever traffic planning, separated rails where possible etc can do a good job - given that you have some traffic engineers that do know their work (Istanbul is a good example what happens if you don't have good traffic engineers .... /wrrd%& )
And think about this: a tramway line can be build within some month, a subway line needs years ...
You guys ruin me straight today. I know that trams are used in many momvnta and that are cheap but so what. And horse carts are cheap but all driving cars right? And once built metro network is much more effective than light rail. Another good solution are monorail trains or anything that is not pavement. And what use is 1000 km tramvaini lines only if they hinder rather than facilitate traffic. And as the last argument for the trams made plenty of modifications until its metro is the standard of MAXIS
- Ivaylo
Where trams cause more congestion than they solve, it is because there is a lack of collector transit connecting outer suburbs for example to the inner-city tram system. It's the old SimCity 4 adage, if it doesn't go where they want to go, they won't use it.
Quote from: ivo_su on October 13, 2010, 04:24:11 PMAnd once built metro network is much more effective than light rail.
Trams are cheaper to start with, they're cheaper to keep going, and if done properly (contrary to what you believe) do relieve congestion.
Quote from: ivo_su on October 13, 2010, 04:24:11 PMAnd horse carts are cheap but all driving cars right?
Horse carts are cheap, but the horse bit isn't (and it smells funny ??? ). They're also very, very slow.
Quote from: ivo_su on October 13, 2010, 04:24:11 PMAnd what use is 1000 km tramvaini lines only if they hinder rather than facilitate traffic.
Uh... The point of Mass Transit is not facilitating traffic.
Honestly, If trams are in the path of motor vehicles (which they usually aren't), they're no worse than those damn busses. Trams don't spew Diesel exhaust over the front of your car (if you're driving), they're fun to take your young cousins on from out-of-town and they don't duck and weave across the road randomly with no apparent concern for other road users.
Quote from: ivo_su on October 13, 2010, 01:59:33 PMIt is not fair so stop development of the game with their copyrights.
Isn't that the point of Copyrights?
Anyway, the point of this thread is the NWM and I think a lot of us would like it that way.
Quote from: Tarkus on October 13, 2010, 02:37:11 PM
Working on getting some of michi's stuff integrated:
That's looking quite nice ;)
That ARD-3 - AVE-4 transition looks very good, Alex and michi. In fact, something like that wouldn't look half bad for Road - AVE-4 (even if neither of these are NWM networks), either. :thumbsup:
Quote
Anyways on with the question, is it possible to get parked cars on the sides of the road networks? You can't go to any downtown in the world and not see parked cars and parking meters on the sides of roads. And now, with these extended networks like the OWR-3 and MAVE-4, they would be perfect. I assume it would be possible using ploppable functional pieces(which I am trying to learn how to do). But is there anyway to get them on draggable networks?
Matt, I don't know if you have been answered, but for regular draggable networks, it had be done, at least streets first got parked cars via other cosmetic mods, and later, SAM (street addon mod), also got parked cars on those streets, all via T21, from you said it, ilive reader. I think you get it from the STEX, but I don't have a link. If it can be done for streets, and since SAM has gotten treated, I don't see why not for road networks, since you already (but may not) notice the existing props on regular roads, like street lights, trees, fire hydrants, manholes, mail boxes, etc, so I don't see why not the same, and parked cars for NWM. I am not an expert on this though, you may need to require a prop pack dependency for the parked cars. You know it is not impossible since cosmetic mods have already in fact been made for the NWM, but I do not remember seeing parked cars on NWM.
As for puzzle pieced parking bays, not a bad idea, I could see this concept being similar to the Signage Piece Addon mod, but since having cars appear parked on streets by themselves already has been more convenient then plopping parked cars for me, I bet others will want their cars T21 exemplared.
Quote from: j-dub on October 13, 2010, 01:09:26 PM
I wonder, if it better you get attention from the T-RAMmer's, since that is their specialty, and original OWR is a default network, but I don't see why not another addition, since avenue, road, and eventually streets all got treated with light rail traffic at some point. However, I don't know if such can be done to look exactly like that.
As for the suicide lanes, I thought San Fran had something where turn lanes and the tram or trolley line was in fact shared. Compared to Nexis4Jersey's photo, it does not seem as different, it looks like there is not much room from the parked cars, and rail to have a lane in between, and you actually have to drive on the rail. If you ever saw that movie Inception, that would be prime example of that type of suicide lanes when the US used to have heavy rails like that down some roads, except there would be forewarning and the bell ringing.
There is enough room , there is about a 3ft gap between the width of the train and the parking line. NJT builds Hybrid Light Rail or Tram-Train as there called in Europe , this is the only section on the Hudson Bergen Light Rail that street runs. All Future Expansions will use Abandoned Erie and Lackawanna ROW and Avenue Medians ROW. How about Regular Rail into NWM? There are alot of Regular Freight lines in the US that share streets with cars.
Quote from: Blue Lightning on October 13, 2010, 01:48:25 PM
Subways are mostly out of scope for the NAM Team, seeing as we can't really do much of anything with them. Their behavior is for the most part, exe locked, and weird things happen when we try stuff.
Though on the note of above ground light rail, many places in the US are turning to it as a solution. I know some Atlantic, Midwest, and Pacific cities have or are building LRT systems.
I started a Topic about Northeastern Rail and Transit plans
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11871.0
(http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11871.0)
Curious, has there been any development on the issue of whether or not the new NWM pieces will be able to go over the RHW pieces, as an example, will the OWR-5 be able to go over a RHW-8 or 10?
Quote from: kings_niners on October 15, 2010, 01:47:30 AM
Curious, has there been any development on the issue of whether or not the new NWM pieces will be able to go over the RHW pieces, as an example, will the OWR-5 be able to go over a RHW-8 or 10?
There has been no development on them, in large part due to the fact that they're a more intensive project that requires modeling. However, judging by
this development (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8460.msg349109#msg349109), they may not be as far off as initially thought.
-Alex
So, do you guys like teasers?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedwarfers.net%2Fotherstuff%2Frandom%2Ftla3-orth.jpg&hash=2b12044d96eda29fbf4dceb747bdf9b108efc701)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedwarfers.net%2Fotherstuff%2Frandom%2Ftla3-diag.jpg&hash=3bb84a3454091a9a9ddd08cae9a774bb786cf7ea)
Enjoy. ;)
:shocked2: Those. Are. AMAZING! Sorry I had to put it in caps. :P
I have to agree, those are Awesome, jondor! I just have one question, are these arrows coded to show up every 4 tiles or are these cosmetic pieces like the ones in the RHW?
Wha?!! Jondor, how'd you do that?!!
iEven got paths for Diagonal TLA-3 set!!!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg264.imageshack.us%2Fimg264%2F7830%2Frhwrnd2feb1001287444592.jpg&hash=7a5f640f5d29688d39606118eeb890d99084604f)
iLearn too fast; That's how I'm able to figure out everything I need to mod any part of the networks if needed...
What you did has now made the TLA-3 look like the roads in the city in which I live... Granted, the arrows are on the SC4-equivalent of a TLA-5, but still...
Quote from: danielra96 on October 18, 2010, 04:26:29 PM
:shocked2: Those. Are. AMAZING! Sorry I had to put it in caps. :P
Quote from: Nego on October 18, 2010, 04:31:45 PM
I have to agree, those are Awesome, jondor! I just have one question, are these arrows coded to show up every 4 tiles or are these cosmetic pieces like the ones in the RHW?
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 18, 2010, 04:36:02 PM
Wha?!! Jondor, how'd you do that?!!
Thanks! They're flat props and yes, they are T21s. Every four tiles on the orthogonals and every 3 on the diagonals to maintain roughly the same distance between them. I'm working on the TLA-5 right now. :P
I'd like to see the TLA-5 version as well. :thumbsup:
Your T-21 mod combined with my re-pathing would give actual purpose for a diagonal TLA-3, cuz the default paths make the diagonal TLA-3 look like a diagonal AVE-2. iModified the diagonal paths last weekend so that they'd work like its orthogonal counterpart. Now all we need are intersections...
iCould actually imagine what it'd look like if all three elements were combined; We're just 67% completed right now...
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 18, 2010, 04:50:06 PM
I'd like to see the TLA-5 version as well. :thumbsup:
That was quick. :satisfied:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedwarfers.net%2Fotherstuff%2Frandom%2Ftla5-orth.jpg&hash=64e0f3b264d88ff89cccdaa65d9fda025944a557)
Gotta fix a couple slope issues, make a LHD version, and find some free IIDs. ;D
That was quick!!! Great stuff going on here guys!!
This is some very impressive work here, jondor and GDO29Anagram! I like what you guys have done. :thumbsup:
-Alex
GDO29Anagram, congratz on the NAMness ;D jondor, excellent work, I look forward to seeing those arrows in my cities ;D
Your friend,
Jordan :thumbsup:
There's a little issue with the arrows on the diagonal TLA-3 disappearing under the network and/or terrain on certain slopes, but I'm not too worried at this point since the network itself tends to do the same thing. There's not much of an issue on the orthogonal network.
Thankfully, a LHD version should simply involve mirroring the arrow texture. The only problem is that I'm a little paranoid about IID conflicts. So, if anyone has any suggestions, I have a thread here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11881.0).
Got that issue resolved, so here you go. $%Grinno$%
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedwarfers.net%2Fotherstuff%2Frandom%2Ftla3.jpg&hash=270d916664b954ddf6b3815b62ffcecca2d55c47) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedwarfers.net%2Fotherstuff%2Frandom%2Ftla5.jpg&hash=5cd71a95b997797c8b1bcc3287a9c1311a68427a)
http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25095 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25095)
That's what I've been trying to figure out for the past three years, jondor - way to go! :D As soon as I get SC4 back, I'm totally downloading this!
Woah, very nice jondor, if i was not using the Euro TRM, i would definately download that!
Quote from: Ciuu96 on October 19, 2010, 07:11:23 AM
Woah, very nice jondor, if i was not using the Euro TRM, i would definately download that!
With riiga and Maarten's permission, it would be quite simple for me to borrow the arrows from their mod and make an alternate texture that will fit in visually with theirs.
Well, you've got permission from me ;)
Go ahead jondor, you have my permission as well! If you want the original textures in png format, PM me or Maarten. :thumbsup:
While I was waiting, I whipped up a little demo.
It looks like I'll need a little more than a simple arrow replacement to make this look good.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedwarfers.net%2Fotherstuff%2Frandom%2Feuro.jpg&hash=05f18345b29e469d5fd2ba9a0567749777ea688c)
Of course, I also have no idea what kind of pavement markings would be typical in this situation. I may do this as a separate mod if the changes are significant enough.
I know there is a real picture somewhere with the this white line center turn lane style, it is just like that already, but the only difference is, the diagonal crosshatch line would be omitted. I have seen outside of SimCity, I know this exists. However, if turning is restricted, that is when you usually would have the crosshatch, and something currently lacking with the US textures, for the straight aways. The only thing close is the Maxis brown crosshatch under the avenues.
QuoteI know there is a real picture somewhere with the this white line center turn lane style, it is just like that already, but the only difference is, the diagonal crosshatch line would be omitted.
Referring to this (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Gosford&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=37.895689,86.572266&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Gosford+New+South+Wales&ll=-33.435736,151.300628&spn=0.000542,0.001321&t=k&z=20&layer=c&cbll=-33.435833,151.300595&panoid=7RVRu3lClk9ZGfY2YRGs3A&cbp=12,35.81,,0,18.43)?
Hmm, this must be the area where the shadow can get hunted down. I suppose it is illegal to throw rangs around here then.
Other then that, I liked your previous work with the US style, and if you saw what Shadow shared, it looks like you were pretty close.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on October 19, 2010, 10:14:44 PM
Referring to this (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Gosford&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=37.895689,86.572266&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Gosford+New+South+Wales&ll=-33.435736,151.300628&spn=0.000542,0.001321&t=k&z=20&layer=c&cbll=-33.435833,151.300595&panoid=7RVRu3lClk9ZGfY2YRGs3A&cbp=12,35.81,,0,18.43)?
In that picture there is a white Mercedes SUV. I followed it (or went ahead, technicly speaking) and that car overtoke the cameracar in the wrong lane.
Quote from: Meastro444 on October 26, 2010, 06:37:28 AM
In that picture there is a white Mercedes SUV. I followed it (or went ahead, technicly speaking) and that car overtoke the cameracar in the wrong lane.
What's more likely is that the camera car did not move over to allow the Merc to overtake.
That sort of stuff is very common here unfortunately...
So? you also already know that g's map car has gone through red lights,
http://www.youtube.com/v/cC4FAQjFW1o
You see there should have been plenty of time to stop, but if the car was tailgated, since the speed was then 50 plus, and they speed on that highway, I can understand.
And because google's car has to be tracked in order to record locational data, it also has been know to expose private wireless networks because of this. And while it was great that google invented a driverless Prius to do map out the data, having it actually obey speed limits are insufficient in certain places in the US. There is this one place in my state, where all the main thoroughfare roads only are 25 m.p.h They used to be over 40 at one time. It would be different if driveways were off these roads, but such is not the case for a distance, and just stupid. Over reacting, and having speeds set so low is what needs to be illegal. This is where google's driverless path finding car causes traffic jams, because there is no way to get around, especially if your on an AVE-2.
As for cameras, good thing there was none here, beacuse their an unfair entrapment, the real reason why the economy is falling, and that example usually happens to people. I noticed businesses around such intersections have since disbanded, or went under. You turn out of the driveway, the light changes on you after you cross, not fair, because you just turned out of there, and still the people on the bench rule wrong, I wouldn't have my business on that corner or that city entirely as well. Not to mention, they don't care if your tailgated, they rather you get hit in the rear, and cause an even bigger traffic delay. If safety was the real deal, they would put count-down timers on such signals, until they realize how their wrong, they should not wonder why the #49 ranking compared to the rest of the Earth. Sorry if this got out of hand, but it is debatable.
QuoteSo? you also already know that g's map car has gone through red lights,
In that youtube video, it did not run the red light. ;) It was still yellow when it crossed the line, therefore it's still legal.
Better be, but I hope they don't trap you that way, if you ever wind up on some yankee road, because stupid u s traffic cameras like to go off if it sees anything straight thru the intersection after the light changes, there is no camera here yet, luckily for them. However, one places rules could be different from the others, which is why US/CAN has a different center turn lane design then AUS. In the US, they sometimes use the center turn lane to cross half-way out of those driveways when traffic is too frequent, now a days, I just see people take a lot more risks upon exiting.
Perhaps you remember that I posted (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg344822#msg344822) a while ago about a stretch of MAVE-6 not having any traffic or any UDI ability. I said I'd try the test patch that fixed "stairstepping" paths on MAVE-6 and other networks. I tried it, and nothing happened at first. I told myself I'd wait and keep playing that city to see if it took time for the fix to work, but I made new cities and sort of forgot about the problem. So, it seems that the test patch didn't ever work.
Now that we have NWM 1.1.1 to fix the stairstepping problem, I installed that (made sure the test patch was no longer in my plugins folder), as I somehow still had 1.1.0 when I checked this morning. I probably lost it in a DATPack (had 1.1.1 in my plugins folder, deleted that to datpack, and then lost it because my plugins.alwaysloose folder didn't have the new NWM when I copied everything back in). So I loaded up that city with 1.1.1 installed.
The paths appeared to be slightly different (small diagonal arrows; I remember you said that those would be visible because they used to be underground and were moved to the surface to fix the stairstepping), but still no traffic was on the MAVE-6, and the "No car" zot building along it remained abandoned. I tried driving a UDI bus onto that stretch, and it disappeared/the UDI session ended. I also tried re-dragging the road tool on top of the MAVE-6 problem stretch, as well as setting the simulator clock to the fastest speed and waiting about four months, but still the problem stretch had no traffic on it, morning or evening. So, can anyone suggest anything to fix this?
GDO29Anagram again.
After reading someone's post about an "issue" about TLA pathing (Not UDI, but Automata),...
Quote from: Artipsychol on November 08, 2010, 03:00:11 PM
Hi. Sorry, if someone has already asked about the same issue. Is there any way to fix this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg2.imageshack.us%2Fimg2%2F2978%2Fbugsw.jpg&hash=952458328ff0aa4ff8583e58d08e04031e63177a)
... I think we may need to consider adding one more question to the FAQ since it's not on there already, and in case no one else suggested this before:
Q: How come cars on TLA-3/5 networks are making left turns and disappearing and cars on OWR-4/5 are going in circles in the middle of the road?
A: In the case of the TLA networks, that's how the paths are designed. For two-tile OWR networks, there are crossover paths, similar to those on RHW networks, which may result in cars doing donuts in the middle of two tile OWR networks.
(If someone can help me word/edit this, that'd be great.)
Oh, and Moonraker0, did you DATpack NWM 1.1.0, install NWM 1.1.1, but lost NWM 1.1.0 somewhere? That's like installing the newest version of the NAM or RHW, but not removing the older version. If so, you'll have to find the previous version and remove it. Maybe it'll help. And also, if you did, avoid DATpacking the NAM or any of its plugins. That makes updates more difficult.
Quote8. Should I DatPack the NAM?
Generally speaking, no. It can cause issues when installing future updates to the NAM, and thus, is not recommended.
Thanks for the reply, GDO29Anagram, but I do not DATPack the NAM or its components (as the FAQ item you posted said not to). I have a Plugins.nonpacked folder (with everything that is routinely DATPacked, BATs, lots, etc.), Plugins.alwaysloose (which I copy back into the main plugins folder after DATPacking everything in Plugins.nonpacked; this is what contains all mods including the NAM), and the main plugin folder. So there's probably no possibility of the NAM anything being accidentally DATPacked, as I have done this setup from the beginning. I just searched Plugins.nonpacked now and didn't find anything about the NAM, so we can probably rule that out.
Loving the look of all of those transition pieces shown so far. Going to be interesting to see how people use them all in the game.
Are we ever going to get any NWM bridges or Tunnels?
Bridges yes, in fact. . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fvz1234512%2FNAM%2FNWM%2Fzeroslope-jul._1__001289665548.png&hash=a03f7cf8a6b39bd98b10206f4ceae706197b3e4c)
Just a quick and dirty texture replacement on the RHW-4 bridges, to see how it would look.
As for tunnels, only option is TE lots to subway or FLUPs. We have yet to figure out how to perform an override of tunnels. . .and its highly likely that we can't.
May I consider TLA-3 bridges rather useless? The reason for this is rather simple: TLA's are designed to allow easier access to buildings on the left side of the road you're driving on, if I'm not mistaken. And I don't know about you, but I think turning left on a bridge isn't something I would do, it would probably end up being quite painful. $%Grinno$%
However, I am looking forward to the other NWM bridges. Any ideas about how the wider OWR bridges are going to be done?
Regards,
Korot
I am having a problem with the new slip lanes for the NWM. The sims are not using them, instead they're just making a right at the intersection and when I go into U-drive and drive over the slip lanes, the car disappears. What is the problem? Thanks for the replies.
Quote from: Korot on November 13, 2010, 01:02:29 PM
May I consider TLA-3 bridges rather useless? The reason for this is rather simple: TLA's are designed to allow easier access to buildings on the left side of the road you're driving on, if I'm not mistaken. And I don't know about you, but I think turning left on a bridge isn't something I would do, it would probably end up being quite painful. $%Grinno$%
Well, think of it as a dual-purpose TLA-3/AVE-2 bridge. ::) And don't worry, it won't be pathed to allow turns off the bridge. (Though GPS devices have been known to advise people to turn off bridges before. ::))
Quote from: Korot on November 13, 2010, 01:02:29 PM
However, I am looking forward to the other NWM bridges. Any ideas about how the wider OWR bridges are going to be done?
The OWR-3 will probably just be OWR-based. The OWR-4 and 5 will probably end up being Avenue based.
Quote from: Opkl on November 13, 2010, 01:28:05 PM
I am having a problem with the new slip lanes for the NWM. The sims are not using them, instead they're just making a right at the intersection and when I go into U-drive and drive over the slip lanes, the car disappears. What is the problem? Thanks for the replies.
The slip lanes aren't part of the NWM--they're part of TuLEPs Basic in the NAM. There was a pathing issue was reported some time ago with them and a patch was released in the TuLEPs development thread, attached to the bottom of the
first post in the thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8460.msg263727#msg263727).
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on November 13, 2010, 01:57:08 PM
Well, think of it as a dual-purpose TLA-3/AVE-2 bridge. ::) And don't worry, it won't be pathed to allow turns off the bridge. (Though GPS devices have been known to advise people to turn off bridges before. ::))
The OWR-3 will probably just be OWR-based. The OWR-4 and 5 will probably end up being Avenue based.
The slip lanes aren't part of the NWM--they're part of TuLEPs Basic in the NAM. There was a pathing issue was reported some time ago with them and a patch was released in the TuLEPs development thread, attached to the bottom of the first post in the thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8460.msg263727#msg263727).
-Alex
Thanks for the fast reply Tarkus. Will the NWM networks have their own on slope, over highway/road/rail/avenue/street, and on slope intersection pieces as well?
Quote from: Opkl on November 13, 2010, 02:07:00 PM
Thanks for the fast reply Tarkus. Will the NWM networks have their own on slope, over highway/road/rail/avenue/street, and on slope intersection pieces as well?
Elevated networks are indeed planned for the NWM. They'll probably be sooner rather than later because of the NAM Road/OWR/Avenue viaduct facelift project's progress has been designed with porting to NWM networks in mind.
-Alex
Korot: Hence why the double solid lines and the hatching across the median, and the way the texture is set up, as Alex said, it can work for TLA-3 or AVE-2.
Quote from: Blue Lightning on November 13, 2010, 07:34:28 PM
Korot: Hence why the double solid lines and the hatching across the median, and the way the texture is set up, as Alex said, it can work for TLA-3 or AVE-2.
Your bridge is nice, but I think the dashed lines on the median are a little too thick and stand out a lot. Maybe a little thinner?
Now this would be one crazy challenge for a bridge designer, but I'd love to see the smaller suspension bridge edited for AVE-2 so as to have two one-lane road decks, with a median (visually at least) for pedestrians, or even if possible, a "hole" between the two halves. Like a super-mini Brooklyn Bridge, haha. Of course, I know this is a complete pie-in-the-sky idea, so I don't expect anything from it. But it'd sure be purty. ::)
Hmm, well, maybe some sort of suspension bridge, with the support wires attaching to the median would look nice.
And with regards to the thick lines in the median: I suggest to change their current angel. Right now, the align with the vertical in the picture, making the upper road looking like it's on a higher level of the bridge, instead of the same. Perhaps using another angel will avoid this effect.
Regards,
Korot
Hi, I just want to ask you a simple question, are you "The NWM Team" going to create overpasses for the NWM roads and avenues? because it would be great, besides, I'm getting tired of the traffic lights on main avenues hehe.
Thanks for answer.
Really really great work!!
Greetings from Colombia
Quote from: the_bounty_hunter on November 24, 2010, 10:57:43 AM
Hi, I just want to ask you a simple question, are you "The NWM Team" going to create overpasses for the NWM roads and avenues? because it would be great, besides, I'm getting tired of the traffic lights on main avenues hehe.
Thanks for answer.
Really really great work!!
Greetings from Colombia
I really hope so. :P
Not just you. I also hope to see overpasses and underpasses for new roads and Avenues of NWM. I think all we want.
- Ivaylo
Quote from: ivo_su on November 24, 2010, 12:34:29 PM
Not just you. I also hope to see overpasses and underpasses for new roads and Avenues of NWM. I think all we want.
I want them, too. Guess I should make some. :D Fortunately, a fairly easy task, particularly now that the model revamp is in good shape. And something else NWM-wise that's semi-related is shaping up, too. Just what I can't say yet. $%Grinno$%
-Alex
I really want a OWR-4 split into two OWR-2's, and a OWR-1 to MIS conversion. Those two will come in handy soo much! Mainly when it comes to using OWR-4 and EL-RHW-4 to build an urban interchange.
Quote from: Monorail Master on November 27, 2010, 12:41:34 PM
I really want a OWR-4 split into two OWR-2's, and a OWR-1 to MIS conversion. Those two will come in
All I can say is:
YES YES YES! Opps, almost forgot to say please. :P
Well, its not like it is impossible to build MIS infront of OWR-1 right now, there just is no present texture transition piece.
I have to say, I love how it looks when I'm laying all the networks down, but I can't seem to get the neighbor connections to work properly. Sure, I can place the special neighbor connector but it doesn't actually do any connecting, just make it look like it is connecting, and it never asks me if I want to connect to my neighbor. Secondly, and I even saw this in your preview picture on one of the first pages, when using Road TLA-5 to connect to a neighbor by dragging to a boundary, both the arrows face in one direction. Obviously this would be impossible since the incoming lane should be coming into the city, it would not be possible for it to transfer out if vehicles are coming from that direction. Does that mean sims can't travel in on that road?
It's nice to have, but it doesn't seem to have as high a capacity as simply using the avenues that came with the game because the avenues here seem to be three tiles wide and I can't place them in my existing cities. :( I end up using RHM instead, but then my buildings all get abandoned because of the "long" commute, forcing me to rely on Maxis roads anyway. Rrrrgh. Am I doinitwrong?
Quote from: interim on November 28, 2010, 02:01:56 PM
Sure, I can place the special neighbor connector but it doesn't actually do any connecting, just make it look like it is connecting, and it never asks me if I want to connect to my neighbor.
Drag road(s) like normal and make connections, then plop the NWM pieces down on the edge over the road(s). It should work like a charm.
I did do that, but it seems like it puts the neighbor connector one tile before the edge, and both of the arrows still point out of the city, neither of them in. I love how the NWM roads look, and I really want to use them. It seems I shouldn't replace my avenues with TLA-5 however, regardless of how much better they look. My avenues are already overloaded, don't want the problem to get worse, haha...
Since I can't get that to work, any suggestions for a two-tile wide 'avenue' using NWM? I cannot seem to get anything with enough traffic flow-through in my city, they just pound one single avenue relentlessly regardless of how much I beef up surrounding roads.
Working on getting a couple screens, just a moment.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo305%2FAewyn_Murayama%2FSC4%2Fripon_nam_01.jpg&hash=e259b5d5ad67521d760da40b3c289f5970984976)
Here's one showing a RHM highway connecting with the TLA-5 transition. It seems impossible to place the transition on top of this intersection. Removing the RHM highway connections and attempting to simply place the transition proved unsuccessful. Both arrows still point out of the city, and the RHM pieces seem to be completely unable to connect with the transition piece (gives 'reserved' warning).
Quote from: interim on November 28, 2010, 02:01:56 PM
Secondly, and I even saw this in your preview picture on one of the first pages, when using Road TLA-5 to connect to a neighbor by dragging to a boundary, both the arrows face in one direction. Obviously this would be impossible since the incoming lane should be coming into the city, it would not be possible for it to transfer out if vehicles are coming from that direction. Does that mean sims can't travel in on that road?
If you see a pic on one of the first few pages, take it with a grain of salt as to how to use the NWM in its current state. Those posts are 3 1/2 years old and marked a very early stage of development, when we did not know nearly as much about neighbor connections as we do now.
To build an NWM Neighbor Connection, simply follow the directions outlined in the NWM mod's Readme file, under "A Note About Neighbor Connections":
Quote
In order to build a neighbor connection for one of these networks, simply build the neighbor connection as normal by dragging the Road tool to the edge of the city tile, then place the appropriate Neighbor Connector for the network over top of the neighbor connection arrows. The Neighbor Connector pieces have special pathing that gets around the game's limitations on neighbor connections.
Please note that you'll need to demolish that RHW-2 intersection. There is no way to have an intersection and a Neighbor Connector Puzzle Piece on the same tile, and there are no plans to make any pieces of that nature.
Quote from: interim on November 28, 2010, 02:01:56 PM
It's nice to have, but it doesn't seem to have as high a capacity as simply using the avenues that came with the game because the avenues here seem to be three tiles wide and I can't place them in my existing cities. :( I end up using RHM instead, but then my buildings all get abandoned because of the "long" commute, forcing me to rely on Maxis roads anyway. Rrrrgh. Am I doinitwrong?
I'm a little confused by your phrasing here, but will try to intepret as best I can. If your dual-tile NWM networks (i.e. TLA-5, etc.) do not appear to have the same capacity as your default Avenues, then you have an incompatible Traffic Simulator Plugin installed somewhere in your Plugins. The TLA-5 should, in fact, have a higher capacity than a default Avenue. The Network Widening Mod requires the use of the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator, included with NAM Version 29 (or the current version of the NAM Traffic Subsystem), though Simulator A in the "Previous NAM Simulators Package" will also provide at least limited support for NWM networks.
Attempting to use versions of other simulators from previous NAM builds, such as the old "Standard", "Better Pathfinding" and "Perfect Pathfinding" plugins will result in severely reduced NWM network capacity, as will using pre-NAM transport mods from 2004 or earlier. Having one of these Plugins installed
in addition to the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator will also cause the same complications.
hailman's "Variable Route Buses" Plugin is, despite the lack of warning on the upload description, is also a modified traffic simulator which is completely incompatible with the NWM and will instantly cause any RHW system to cease functioning. (If that Plugin is in fact, in your Plugins folder, it may explain some of the RHW difficulties you've experienced--though RHW systems should generally not be used in the same manner as Roads/One-Way Roads/Avenues or NWM Networks, as being a Highway-type network, they do not like to allow direct access to RCI zones.)
I also noticed you mentioned networks that are "three tiles wide". While some initial development was shown on this front on the initial pages of this thread (in posts 3 1/2 years ago), you won't find them in the current public version of the NWM and they are not yet available. Development has resumed on them, however, and it is likely you will see them in an NWM release in the not-too-distant future.
-Alex
Wow, thanks for the huge reply, Alex. I really appreciate it. Here's the scoop. If it's TL;DR, just skip to the last paragraph... @_@
First, regarding 'three-tile-wide' networks, I apologize-- I had been looking at a RHM highway, not a NWM "three-tile avenue", and got the two mods mixed together when I was trying to remember the problem. However I am glad to hear the mod is still evolving, and glad to see your continued dedication. That's really impressive for a game as old as Sim City 4... I expected the mod community to be dead when I installed it again, but here I sit, proven completely wrong! Amazing.
I did, as you said, and demolished the RHW intersection there, along with the rest of the RHM bordering the city as illustrated in the picture. Its placement was an experiment to see how a RHW would work at that location, but apartments and commercial buildings along it were being abandoned due to 'long commute' (right down the road), so I've deleted the whole thing in favor of a working NWM network, if I can get it to go right. I think I remember reading somewhere that how SC4 handles highways is that if you're on it, it's a long commute, and if you transfer cities, even if its right near the border, it's a long commute.
About other/previous versions of traffic simulators... I am using all current versions of your mods, and have never previously installed them on this machine. I also apologize for the incorrect statement regarding flow-through traffic as I mistakenly misread a comment you made a few years ago (sounds ridiculous now that I think about it, I mean, it's been years lol) about TLA-5's throughput capacity. Clearly my mistake. I am also not using any other traffic modifier mods as I purposely wanted to avoid any conflicts whatsoever. I did install the Traffic Simulator that came in the install package but after running it once, I was confused as to its usage due to my inexperience with NWM and decided to exit without saving anything until a later time.
Regarding 'three-tile-wide' networks, I was wrong again-- I had been looking at a RHM highway, not a NWM "three-tile avenue", and got the two mods mixed together when I was trying to remember the problem.
And finally, as I forgot to ask this... does placing the neighbor connector on top of the neighbor transitions in place, where both arrows are pointing out, cause traffic to flow in normally regardless of how it looks like it will not? I am having trouble getting these transitions down..
Edit: I really apologize for asking so many questions you've probably heard a hundred times. I mean no offense and I regret asking things I'm sure you've heard a hundred times before. I actually went back and experimented with the single-tile TLA-3 and after some inital difficulties with placement, I learned to drag only from one side, then make blocks by treating it like the game 'Snake'. Most of my traffic problems vanished in my smaller towns, and I managed to get the TLA-5 road from Ripon to connect with neighbor Mountain View, though on both sides, it seems traffic only travels one way... still working on that, but after an initial learning curve, I'm getting ahold of it, and I want to thank you for having weathered my questions. Now I'll just have to overcome the massive RHM learning curve, but it's worth it! :)
Quote from: TarkusPlease note that you'll need to demolish that RHW-2 intersection. There is no way to have an intersection and a Neighbor Connector Puzzle Piece on the same tile, and there are no plans to make any pieces of that nature.
Interim:
I hope you have not done anything major yet, as in kill that RHW before the TLA, and do massive rerouting, but from my past experience, it has not been impossible for me to leave such an intersection there, and have the neighbor connection work, the catch is, it just is more advanced, or more complicated.
This is how the game's behavior should of went with that intersection:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi56.tinypic.com%2F2rejsrq.jpg&hash=09854740b0b664057eb9dfd6754d5d15504eb437)
Because of this, I don't know if you are up for a challenge, very useful, but still challenging work around. It involves tricking the game to think there is still an avenue there, destroing the avenue, but keeping the arrows so the game recognizes the TLA-5 as an avenue going in and out, while it actually is not. It has been a while since I have done anything like that, but with my previous luck of getting the RHW to connect without the pieces, and even place overpasses at the edge, and still manage everything to work, I do not see why the TLA-5/games behavior can not be tricked to allow an RHW-2 by TLA-5 crossing. Its just I am going to have to get some proof up, if your actually still interested.
I am pending a video to show just the intersection of RHW and TLA-5 you displayed, but it will have to wait cuz of real life :(
Quote from: j-dubIt involves tricking the game to think there is still an avenue there, destroing the avenue, but keeping the arrows so the game recognizes the TLA-5 as an avenue going in and out, while it actually is not.
I remember that method, and I know you made a video of it for RHW-4 NCs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2g_mcR_iUU "$Deal"$
@interim: To achieve what J-dub did, follow the instructions in the video, but substitute the Rail over RHW pieces with Rail over Road pieces. Then drag Road AWAY FROM the arrows into the corresponding starter piece.
@j-dub: Your old video should be enough to explain the tactic...
Thanks, both of you. What I've done for now is bulldozed the RHW-2 leading up to the TLA-5 for one city block on either side. There is actually an RHW-2 neighbor connection just south of the TLA-5 that gets such massive influxes of traffic from Ripon's neighbor Mountain View (5800 car, 1600 pedestrian) that this new setup is not really viable. I am not certain how to fix the problem without rezoning the nearby commercial area and replacing it with middle-density residential. C$$$ demand is extremely low in Ripon despite R$$$ being 20% of the population, so I think maybe Mountain View is making up too much of the workforce. Also, that TLA-5 leads up to an avenue intersection that is just barely visible at the far left of my image, which heads north to the town of Redding. Mountain View citizens inexplicably travel on foot from Ripon, down the TLA-5, walk eight blocks north to the Redding border, then walk up a stretch of avenue that is completely empty for 20+ tiles to work in the industrial district. I mean, I understand they want work, but walking fifteen miles on foot to work in a factory? That's some desperation, yo.
Basically, having that intersection work properly would relieve a lot of foot traffic at that intersection. For some reason, my sims hate the subway, unless I place it on the shortest route... in which case they bring it to 400% capacity. Heck yeah! Lol. Once I get these intersections down, I'll be off and running on trying to make RHW interchanges... my mind, it reels! And forget the light rails! Maybe I'm getting carried away trying to make that bay in Timbuktu look like one big major city...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo305%2FAewyn_Murayama%2FSC4%2Fth_sc4_ripon_01.jpg&hash=e3838d56799c8e57654c8cbe2943fa1b4f190d6a) (http://s123.photobucket.com/albums/o305/Aewyn_Murayama/SC4/?action=view¤t=sc4_ripon_01.jpg)
Look at all those abandoned buildings! The horror... I guess SC4 isn't like riding a bike at all!
All man, and I worked so hard making this,
http://www.youtube.com/v/DSaR1HpPRic
stayed up really late, and took a lot time putting all of this together!
Oh well, no good deed goes unpunished. BTW though, anyone else notice how long the yellow light is here, or is that just a conflicting one-time fluke? I actually think having the light last that long is more realistic.
No worries j-dub, I REALLY appreciate your effort and this looks like it'll actually be a really good resource for me in the future. Your effort wasn't in vain!
j dubs, where did you get those railroad gates in your video?
Hi - can TLA-5 or other double tile NWM pieces go diagonal or angle / curve at all? I see the curve pieces for the single tile networks but didn't see any for the larger pieces.
If not, any ideas for how to do anything similar?
Quote from: regoarrarr on December 04, 2010, 08:00:07 AM
Hi - can TLA-5 or other double tile NWM pieces go diagonal or angle / curve at all? I see the curve pieces for the single tile networks but didn't see any for the larger pieces.
If not, any ideas for how to do anything similar?
I'm sorry,
regoarrarr, but at this time, there is no way to make diagonals or curves at all with these networks. There will be in the future, but at this point in time, there is no curves or diagonals for the OWR-4, OWR-5, TLA-5, MAVE-4, or MAVE-6. You can try transitioning to regular AVE or OWR-3 or OWR-2 right before the curve/diagonal stretch of road, but other than that, I don't know what to tell you. Sorry. It is something to look forward to in the future, though.
Geesh j-dub. That's a really interesting find. Although it requires an awful lot of work.
Wouldn't it be easier just to convert the TLA-5 to an avenue for the neighbour connection and convert it back to a TLA-5 on the adjacent tile? Is there a lot lost by doing this connection (such as capacity)?
Of course it's easier, I don't even usually build so close to the edge, because of the land the next tile over, I don't want to see buildings or networks compromise edge reconcile, its just the whole point of the video was to make:
Quote from: interim(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo305%2FAewyn_Murayama%2FSC4%2Fripon_nam_01.jpg&hash=e259b5d5ad67521d760da40b3c289f5970984976)
into a working solution. (again the above picture will not allow travel folks)
Opkl, in the past I believe that rail road crossing mod was on the STEX, but I am no so sure anymore. It may have even been off a third party, unrelated to SC4 site, but I can't remember where, and have my doubts, I want to say avenue rail road crossing mod, but IDK. Thats what time does, alter the availability of finding things, so best of luck finding.
At first your method was pretty confusing (as I've never used these kinds of workarounds before), and while I was doing it, I noticed that no type of road was allowing a real connection to Mountain View, even Maxis avenues. So I bulldozed all the buildings near that area on both sides, saved both areas, reloaded them just to make sure everything was good and then connected Ripon and Mountain View via a Maxis avenue. The connection appeared successful on Ripon's side but as far as Mountain View was concerned, there was no avenue... Well, no worries. I already knew where both roads were supposed to meet, so I matched both TLA-5's while ignoring the RHW-2 segment for now. Traffic going both ways is successful on both sides now it seems, though the number of vehicles is small (only a few hundred).
Either way, any morning commute from Mountain View proves it's a successful connection. Thanks a lot, j-dub.
An issue with the dummy paths on the MAVE-6, causing strange commute arrow behavior, was reported on the 4th over at ST (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=118944&enterthread=y) by Moonraker0. I was able to replicate the issue and figure out that the dummy paths laying in the center of the network were the root cause, and solve it by shifting them to the shoulder.
The corrected paths are now attached here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1200.0;attach=8007). Simply unzip the file to your Plugins\Network Addon Mod\Network Widening Mod folder.
-Alex
I just thought that this should be pointed out...
Welcome to page 100!!!
&hlp &dance &hlp &dance &hlp
Will there be diagonal intersections, or diagonal AVE, MLA, OWR? I'm mostly wondering because i like to use the 4 and 5 OWR in my downtown areas, but at the same time i like to use diagonal roads in my downtown areas.
Im sure there will be diagonals and turns eventually for the dual tile NWM networks, they take a lot of time to work out, so we just have to be patient :)
then I shall be patient.
Unfortunately, I'm still getting the commute arrow problem that should be fixed by the MAVE-6 path fix in a new city. I have the zzz-MAVE-6_Fix.dat file in the Plugins\Network Addon Mod\Network Widening Mod folder. I have confirmed that the "dummy paths" are not in the center of the avenue, but rather there are pairs of red arrows on each side of the MAVE-6 which fade into white arrows and then instantly change back to red and repeat this when DrawPaths is active.
Any knowledge as to what causes the graphical glitch to occur with the NWM transition pieces?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi189.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz165%2Fmdawgmike%2Fsc4-nwm-glitch.jpg&hash=fd33ad91b77236bcd8c614f778056fe8d24056b2)
The glitch becomes more apparent at wider zoom levels:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi189.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz165%2Fmdawgmike%2Fsc4-nwm-glitch-2.jpg&hash=ae8e0d1b0a68ab1d4d30df56ae4c23be95ad62ec)
Sorry if this has been touched on already. I didn't see it in the FAQ or anything. Is there a workaround readily available? The NWM is otherwise an awesome addition to realism outside of this one little bug. I'm not sure what all transition pieces it occurs with, but the same thing is well-apparent with AVE4/MAVE-4 as well as OWR-2/OWR-3 (the two that I seem to want to use a lot).
that happens when the land is not flat, flatten the ground under the transition and it wont happen
There are also many indications it is primarily a problem with certain nVidia graphics cards. Only one case reported has involved an ATI card. I've never been able to replicate it myself.
I will add it to the FAQ as folks do ask about it semi-regularly. I am still trying to figure out the best way to solve it . . . it may involve eliminating the wealthification feature, unfortunately.
-Alex
Alex, i have this problem any time I use the transitions on any non-flat ground, and have an ATI card ...
Quote from: Moonraker0 on December 19, 2010, 10:00:11 AM
Unfortunately, I'm still getting the commute arrow problem that should be fixed by the MAVE-6 path fix in a new city. I have the zzz-MAVE-6_Fix.dat file in the Plugins\Network Addon Mod\Network Widening Mod folder. I have confirmed that the "dummy paths" are not in the center of the avenue, but rather there are pairs of red arrows on each side of the MAVE-6 which fade into white arrows and then instantly change back to red and repeat this when DrawPaths is active.
Judging by your description, you definitely have it installed. I'm currently at a loss to explain why it isn't working for your right now, however. With it installed, I have been completely unable to replicate the issue in a new city, and in an existing test city which had suffered from it, the issue went away after letting the game run for a little while.
Quote from: travismking on December 19, 2010, 03:34:14 PM
Alex, i have this problem any time I use the transitions on any non-flat ground, and have an ATI card ...
Thanks for letting me know--that seems to suggest it's really a random sampling of cards that have the issue. Getting rid of the wealthification is probably going to be the only option.
-Alex
Quote from: TarkusGetting rid of the wealthification is probably going to be the only option.
Isn't it possible to add the asphalt to the grass textures, or just simply trim the grass textures? I tested removing the grass textures on one of the transitions (By replacing them with blank textures), and it proves to be a rather utilitarian and least aesthetically appealing solution. Though it seems to blend in with Medium and High Density Residential and Commercial Zones.
My thoughts: It depends whether or not some people want the grass textures on the transitions or not.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on December 19, 2010, 04:38:24 PM
Isn't it possible to add the asphalt to the grass textures, or just simply trim the grass textures? I tested removing the grass textures on one of the transitions (By replacing them with blank textures), and it proves to be a rather utilitarian and least aesthetically appealing solution. Though it seems to blend in with Medium and High Density Residential and Commercial Zones.
That could be an option as well . . . I'll have to play around with it a bit. I know that folks generally like the wealthification aside from this glitch, so it'd be nice to keep it in tact as possible.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on December 19, 2010, 04:42:09 PM
That could be an option as well . . . I'll have to play around with it a bit. I know that folks generally like the wealthification aside from this glitch, so it'd be nice to keep it in tact as possible.
Isn't it just low-density zones that cause the glitch, or is that another one?
in the grand scheme of things, ideally these will be t21s.
in the meantime all you can really do is double check that they are built on flat terrain.
it may also be possible to fix with a lot of testing, the flags in the s3d file. however not to sure which ones would allow the best combination.
the model is from memory .05 units high. if we find out what height the game assigns textures automatically we maybe able to resolve this blend problem by just adjusting the model height.
-dave
Thanks for the info guys. Unfortunately, flattening the ground didn't seem to have much of an effect for me (I used the technique of making multiple 1X1 street chunks to get a perfectly flat roadbed for the transition). Changing the zone type around the transition to either higher density or no zone at all doesn't seem to have an effect either. What did seem to have a major impact was changing the game setting to "software rendering." The problem almost completely goes away (only shows up maybe 1 out of every 10 times I pan over the transition as compared to pretty much every time with "hardware rendering" set). I have a nVidia card (9800gt), if that helps any.
If there is a z-buffering setting on your graphics card control panel (Right click on desktop > NVIDIA Display or the like), try different settings.
Hi all
I want to ask you planned to be built EOWR- 3, EOWR- 4, EMAVE-6 and more in the new NWM and how Tile will nead for AVE-6 and AVE-8
- Ivaylo
Quote from: ivo_su on December 20, 2010, 06:26:13 AM
I want to ask you planned to be built EOWR- 3, EOWR- 4, EMAVE-6 and more in the new NWM and how Tile will nead for AVE-6 and AVE-8
All networks are planned to be elevated, including those three. It's uncertain when, though.
The AVE-6 and AVE-8 will both be 3-tile-wide networks when released.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on December 20, 2010, 10:23:15 AM
All networks are planned to be elevated, including those three. It's uncertain when, though.
The AVE-6 and AVE-8 will both be 3-tile-wide networks when released.
-Alex
And will they have TuLEP pieces?
Alex your amazing my brother.
Your reply me happy I wish you and the entire team successful work
and happy holidays
- Ivaylo
Though I love the NWM, I'm having a pickle because I need to elevate an avenue over a TLA-3 (and there are no puzzle pieces for networks over NWM).
Could you convert to RHW-4, then to ERHW-4 for the overpass? I believe ERHW can pass over NWM networks without any problem.
Actually, that's what it is (an RHW-4) converted. I'll have to try that.
The stuff-over-NWM and NWM-over-stuff are probably the two most requested things right now . . . they'll both be making their way into future releases. Stuff-over-NWM will probably happen first.
-Alex
Alex I want to ask why OWR-4 and OWR-5 a car is so strange and they turn
in the opposite direction of movement
- Ivaylo
Quote from: ivo_su on December 23, 2010, 12:21:18 AM
Alex I want to ask why OWR-4 and OWR-5 a car is so strange and they turn
in the opposite direction of movement
It's a side-effect of the crossover paths allowing traffic to use the entire width of the network. Without them, the network is more or less useless, and unfortunately, despite a number of experiments, I have not yet found a way to allow the necessary crossovers without that side-effect. The way the base OWR network's path reversing mechanism is handled complicates things a great deal, and it appears to be locked in the .exe.
-Alex
Guys I'd like to try to make transit-enabled lots for NWM roads, how can get their textures into LE?
- Ivaylo
The textures should already appear in the LE. LE-readable versions of them are contained in the NetworkWideningMod_LotSupport.dat package.
-Alex
Well, today happens to mark the 8th anniversary of SC4's release--January 14, 2003. It's amazing that things show no sign of slowing down with this great game. :thumbsup:
Speaking of no slowing down, sounds like a good day for a development update.
The triple-tile networks are humming along quite well. Here's a T-Intersection with a MAVE-6 ending at a TLA-7.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F9764%2Fnwm011420111.jpg&hash=e2ce058d6c384275738be4fd817ca340064be7b5)
Some of the MAVE-4 and MAVE-6 intersection textures are being revamped to align better with one another, with the goal of incorporating the asymmetrical MAVE-5 as a full network.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg257.imageshack.us%2Fimg257%2F7449%2Fnwm011420112.jpg&hash=2eba4ce6076b8ff366390c783f55c02409669636)
I just undertook a similar process with some of the TLA-7/AVE-6/TLA-9/AVE-8 stuff to allow for asymmetrical TLA-8 and AVE-7, which has proven successful.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg405.imageshack.us%2Fimg405%2F2038%2Fnwm010920111.jpg&hash=30339dc887ce4918d546f795dc4fce0dbf15b4e0)
-Alex
I love you Alex
This is GREAT. Just talking about it some time ago. For the moment I feel mild difficulty but I promise that I will try to make underpasses for pedestrians of all large NWM road's.
- Ivaylo
Wow.. Alex!
It's making great progress! :thumbsup:
Ooo! This is exciting! It's been a while since a development update. It sure was worth the wait. :P Keep up the great work! &apls :thumbsup:
Oh, and happy birthday, SC4!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsc4devotion.com%2Fforums%2FThemes%2FSC4D08%2Fimages%2Fbdaycake.gif&hash=a3778d54a5b71eefd767a2c7c46274b059331743)
Very nice work Tarkus! &apls I have a few questions though, when zoned will the median in the AVE-6 be filled in with something like the normal maxis AVE? I some what like it empty as in your pic because it has a nice rural/suburban feel to it. Also will the TULeps pieces for these networks work with the MAVE-6? Thanks for all your hard work! ;)
Quote from: Opkl on January 15, 2011, 08:42:07 AM
[W]hen zoned will the median in the AVE-6 be filled in with something like the normal maxis AVE?
Unfortunately, no. Since the median's sandwiched between two other stretches of road, it's never going to touch any zones. Adding a median like what's on the default AVE would require a T-21 that has to be set so the props show all the time.
That is really exciting development!
But just a though since we are finally to move to 3 tile networks and given that issue with median, wouldn't it be better to make it (on AVE8) smaller and instead expand sidewalks?
I also have one question - all the networks are basically flat models, right? I guess that is the reason you can't plop anything on the tile occupied by them. If that is so I just wonder would it be possible to employ a trick similar to one that could be used with prop/building models when one can specify "fake" size for them allowing some "free" space next to actual road, so some trees and some such could be plopped along the roads?
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on January 15, 2011, 11:17:44 AM
Unfortunately, no. Since the median's sandwiched between two other stretches of road, it's never going to touch any zones. Adding a median like what's on the default AVE would require a T-21 that has to be set so the props show all the time.
That's good! :thumbsup: I didn't want anything in the median. :P
How about at least having some bigger light masts in the center of the AVE-6/-8. I mean come on. Somethng has to be done. =) I know it's hard work, but it would really be outstanding work if there were medians. Maybe you should connect to the chinese, who made the AVE-2 medians. I really don't want to be a spoiled brat, but I am certain, this issue could be resolved and that would make a really awesome thing. How about the medians in RHW-6c? That's kind of a same thing, a 3-tile based network, with central median. Let's brainstorm people. Maybe if everyone gives out his idea about this, we can find a few connections that gets us to the answer. =)
A really magnificent job there Alex! I gotta say, it makes me really want to rub something, when I see your pictures (my mouse against the mousepad).
Actually, it's not that hard to make T21s for the medians. But we should keep them optional, since not everyone wants it...
Quote from: mrtnrln on January 16, 2011, 06:13:24 AM
Actually, it's not that hard to make T21s for the medians. But we should keep them optional, since not everyone wants it...
Yes please keep them optional.
Alex can I ask you to show us more pictures of three tiles networks. For example many want to see how to cross two AVE-8. Otherwise, the large junction is amazing. I wonder whether the AVE-6 and AVE-8 will have extra left turn lane.
- Ivaylo
Quote from: ivo_su on January 16, 2011, 11:31:32 AM
Alex can I ask you to show us more pictures of three tiles networks. For example many want to see how to cross two AVE-8. Otherwise, the large junction is amazing. I wonder whether the AVE-6 and AVE-8 will have extra left turn lane.
- Ivaylo
I remember Alex saying that textures were ready for triple-tile-road TuLEPs.
^^ Really? I remember otherwise...
QuoteI do have some textures ready for the triple-tile network TuLEPs, but that's as far as they've gotten right now--there will be at least a few by the time NWM 2.0 is ready for public release. In general, though, much of the TuLEPs stuff is, on the backburner for the time being. The menu stuff for the Advanced TuLEPs still needs to be figured out, and I have my hands in just about every other transit modding project (even resuscitating the RAM, HSR, SPM and SAM) in addition to what will be a heavy dose of RL over the next month.
-Alex
- Reply #429 to the TuLEPs thread, emphasis mine
Can you turn the ARD-3's middle lane into a reversible lane? That would be more realistic in urban areas (but not in rural areas, as an ARD-3 is essentially a 2+1 road (though it would be nice if you make a transition that switches the middle lane's direction), and therefore you should keep the ARD-3 and add in a reversible lane road (I'll call it RLR-3).).
Also, since 1 tile is 16x16 metres, it is possible to make a 5-lane road in one tile (it's possible IRL), but it wouldn't look that good in SC4...
Nice job with the NWM. &apls
-Gooper1
ARD-3 can't be modded with a reversable lane. SC4 doesn't allow it.
5-laned roads are not possible for an ingame perspective. 3, maybe 4 is the max.
Actually, isn't the Tram-In/On-Road (I never can remember which) a 4-lane-one-tile setup? I've noted cars driving in the tram lanes before, so perhaps if a 4-lane-Road was ever needed that could serve for a base.
Also, one thing I'd like to see in the future is the return of crosswalks to TuLEP intersections, at least visually.
Well a 4 Lane single tile network is in development called the NMAVE-4 (Narrow Medianless Avenue, 4 Lanes). Check it out here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg347077#msg347077)! (scroll down to see the pictures)
Ah, just like a Road-4 would wind up, heh
Quote from: gooper1 on January 23, 2011, 09:11:43 AM
Can you turn the ARD-3's middle lane into a reversible lane? That would be more realistic in urban areas (but not in rural areas, as an ARD-3 is essentially a 2+1 road (though it would be nice if you make a transition that switches the middle lane's direction), and therefore you should keep the ARD-3 and add in a reversible lane road (I'll call it RLR-3).).
Also, since 1 tile is 16x16 metres, it is possible to make a 5-lane road in one tile (it's possible IRL), but it wouldn't look that good in SC4...
Nice job with the NWM. &apls
-Gooper1
There IS an ARD-3 Lane Shift piece to do just that...
Quote from: gooper1 on January 23, 2011, 09:11:43 AM
Can you turn the ARD-3's middle lane into a reversible lane?
There was a discussion on the idea of reversible lanes several pages back here.
Quote from: Tarkus on July 30, 2010, 03:50:26 PM
Interesting . . . we had actually considered the idea of reversible lanes at one point for the NWM . . . a "REV-3", but on a single-tile setup, which there wasn't really any way to get quite right. I knew the tidal flow could allow something like this from jplumbley's experiments back in 2006 when we were starting the project . . . I'm curious to mess around with this a little more with respect to reversible lane functionality to see how feasible a 2-tiler would be. The one potential issue I see with the current situation is that the way the OWR-5s are pathed, they'll still technically have traffic in both directions in the middle, and I don't know if there's really a way around doing something like that.
It wouldn't work, since individual paths cannot be reversed at regular intervals. The closest thing to making such a network functional is to have two paths in the middle lane, each in two different directions. The only side effect would be having cars going in two different directions in the middle lane.
-----
Quote from: gooper1 on January 23, 2011, 09:11:43 AM
Also, since 1 tile is 16x16 metres, it is possible to make a 5-lane road in one tile (it's possible IRL), but it wouldn't look that good in SC4...
I believe the absolute limit is four lanes per tile. You need room for sidewalks.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on January 23, 2011, 12:33:47 PM
There was a discussion on the idea of reversible lanes several pages back here.
It wouldn't work, since individual paths cannot be reversed at regular intervals. The closest thing to making such a network functional is to have two paths in the middle lane, each in two different directions. The only side effect would be having cars going in two different directions in the middle lane.
-----
I believe the absolute limit is four lanes per tile. You need room for sidewalks.
I was just saying it is possible IRL, and by the way, there is room for one 1m-wide sidewalk (one side only) assuming each lane is 3m wide.
About that, gooper1 have you by chance tried the Tram in Road network? That is about the same size as the NWM's NMave, which will also contain four lanes of traffic on one tile, and will have sidewalks on each side.
Can't get over the switched lane thing. Its too bad though, that there was not even a way to use stop points, and a traffic light system to handle this reverse lane thing, so its like one intersection tile, after another. I mean, I seriously wondered when I saw that video of the freeway experts having a Maxis signal controlled merge of two lanes merging to one in SC4, but I guess that is not the same like reversing lines of travel.
Seriously, I never said that there should be a 5-lane road in SC4, I just said that you can fit 5 lanes of traffis and one sidewalk in 16 metres IN REAL LIFE! (It would look bad in SC4 and it is hard to model, thereby making 5-laned roads in 1 tile nearly impossible.)
Not to beat an already dead horse, but I don't believe you can. I just measured a local 5-lane road in google maps, and got that it is 20.5m wide, not including sidewalks. And it's not particularly wide...
Oh, you said 5 tiles, yeah, that really is a no-no, it looked almost possible when you look at the original RTL width, but that was just fixed to not be so tight, and with semi trucks, that is way too tight, but considering 4 lanes is the max fit on a single tile, 5 lanes you know no. I think we do have common ground about the 16 too narrow thing though. There are unsafe roads in my state that they wanted to sqeeze capacity in on this one road that used to be 3 lanes, but you can not really safely drive side-by-side now with how people behave these days. I mean, what was intended to be parking bays, is not really good for travel, just try driving down the old Lincoln Highway by the Fox River Valley between I-88 and IL-38.
Well European roads are ussally made with 3,5m lanes that's for roads, motorways, highways, whatever. That means, 17,5metres for 5 lanes. But nothing else.
If you want to see 5 lanes in one tile in SC4, look at the NAM partial-Y Maxis highway interchange. At the part where the 2 highways merge, you will see 10 lanes in 2 tiles! :P
Are MAVE-6 and ARD-3 bridges possible? (Those are the only two non-OWR networks that add additional lanes of travel (not left-turn lanes like a TLA-3 or a TLA-5))
Also a MAVE-6>dual OWR-3 transition?
(Looks at the Par-Y interchange) Ooh... You're right... Actually, a sliver of the outer lane goes into the next tile. Five car paths per tile is just pushing it, even for Maxis Highways.
Unfortunately, there are no NWM bridges as of yet, let alone a transition like the one you described.
There is nothing secret about this picture and nothing new,
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.tinypic.com%2F2u6mxle.jpg&hash=35da2d0f04e4adf51f02c03887b934a32b727702)
This particullar bridge, you may have even built before NWM came out. In this situation, maybe its a sign of hope, because this is a Maxis bridge, and it almost allowed me to attach the road to it. I guess it could of been a fluke with the landscape that the avenue did not come out, but when I had dragged the bridge across, it allowed me to back up, and not extend the avenue out of it, that I was tempted to touch the Mave to it. If such a bridge was duplicated so the existing avenue bridge is untouched, the duplication would just need the ends of that center triangle cut off to match the Mave 4. I think chopping a road/ave bridge is possible because: http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2351/failedbridgeoverbridge.jpg
@
gooper1/GDO29Anagram: There were actually two bridges made for the NWM, both being for the MAVE-2 Edit: and TLA-3. They were made and posted by
BlueLightning:
Quote(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fvz1234512%2FNAM%2FNWM%2Fzeroslope-jul._1__001289665548.png&hash=a03f7cf8a6b39bd98b10206f4ceae706197b3e4c)
Though they have not been released to the public in any shape, way, or form.
@Nego: I remember that one, but that one was a texture replacement on the RHW bridges. Designed for both TLA-3 and AVE-2.
The difference is though, those 3 lanes are still just one-tile wide. Where as, it can automatically be assumed -if- 2 tile conjoined double NWM bridges are given priority, that they would have to be based differently then two roads side by side.
Well, they'd probably be based on the Avenue network, like the Dual-Tile RHW bridges are based on GMHY.
Quote from: jdenm8 on January 27, 2011, 03:08:54 PM
Well, they'd probably be based on the Avenue network, like the Dual-Tile RHW bridges are based on GMHY.
Exactly. And the triple-tilers can be made the same way as the RHW-6C bridge that SA showed in the RHW thread the other day.
-Alex
Seriously, what's the point of a TLA-3 of AVE-2 bridge? As I said earlier, they don't add a full-fledged lane of traffic (not a left turn lane) to the existing 2-lane road (unlike the ARD-3 and MAVE-6, both of which add one or more full-fledged lanes to a road or avenue/MAVE-4), therefore buiding a bridge for those networks is rather useless.
I will be happy if you can build an ARD-3 bridge and a MAVE-6 bridge.
-Gooper1
NWM bridges would definitely be nice to have around! MAVE-6 and OWR-3 would be particularly handy ::) It'd also be nice to have avenue bridges that are MAVE-4 in the middle but AVE at the ends. Built in left-turn lanes on the ends would be an awesome option as well but not sure if that's possible...
On a similar note, has anyone considered NMAVE-4 viaducts? NMAVE-4 doesn't have a lot of appeal to me personally because of its lane widths (though it's always nice to have extra options) but wouldn't it be nice to have an elevated version with slight overhangs to allow standard lane widths? Ideally such a set would include transitions from AVE-4/TLA-5 (ground level) to ENMAVE-4. As with any elevated network it would be great to have 7,5m height instead of or in addition to 15m. :D MAVE-6 & OWR-3 viaducts would be great as well....
Gooper, if you don't like the TLA/AVE-2 bridges you can feel free not to use them.
gooper1, as noahclem said, just because something is in the game does not mean that you have to use it. The purpose of AVE-2 or TLA-3 bridges is to maintain a buffer zone between the lanes, the point of the AVE-2 to begin with. Some higher-class 2-lane roads have such a buffer zone for increased safety.
I've just updated the "optional addons" part of the sticky post to note the release of two new NWM-related mods over at the STEX on Simtropolis by jackxu, who you may know for the AVE-2 Medians (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24822).
His latest offerings include a unidensity/no grass mod for the MAVE-4 and MAVE-6 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25796) and a Streetside Mod for the MAVE-4 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25797).
Jack, if you're reading this, my sincere compliments to you on your continued fine efforts in producing NWM addons. :thumbsup:
-Alex
Quote from: noahclem on January 27, 2011, 05:02:53 PM
Gooper, if you don't like the TLA/AVE-2 bridges you can feel free not to use them.
It's not that I don't like them, it's that I think they're rather pointless.
^^ As a TLA bridge, it's pointless, but it does connect well to the network. An AVE-2 is not as pointless as you might think. It could be a bridge built for a future 2+1-road (ARD-3), but with too low traffic volumes to lay this setup staight away...
Quote from: Tarkus on January 29, 2011, 09:36:41 PM
I've just updated the "optional addons" part of the sticky post to note the release of two new NWM-related mods over at the STEX on Simtropolis by jackxu, who you may know for the AVE-2 Medians (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=24822).
His latest offerings include a unidensity/no grass mod for the MAVE-4 and MAVE-6 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25796) and a Streetside Mod for the MAVE-4 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=25797).
-Alex
Wow! Didn't realize those mods were around, particularly the no grass on the sides of the Mave 4/6... and that streetside mod as well. :thumbsup:
I have a city of around 500,000 people and due to ever increasing traffic issues, decided to widen one of my main avenues with this handy mod. However, after setting up what i wanted, the game-which until this point was running smooth-froze. The poor thing attempts to run a few days at a time every couple of minutes, but its obviously struggling. Removing the road and replacing with a regular nam avenue corrected this issue. I was wondering if this was normal? If the mod simply takes up a ton of processing power, is incompatible with something and if so is there a list of known incompatibilities? Granted I've no idea what it could be since I have nothing else aside from NAM affecting traffic.
Yes, plugins are up to date.
Edit - when it freezes i notice the trees and what not on the regular avenues begin blinking in and out of existence.
evilbob, an image of the type of setup you're trying to build with the NWM might help diagnose your issue. Generally, the game speed should be running just about as smoothly as they do with default networks.
As far as incompatibilities, old versions of the traffic simulator, outdated versions of the NAM and pre-NAM transport mods are the only real ones.
-Alex
Not sure if you know, but like a TLA-3 ending at a street (RULed with no textures, though Haljackey has made some for the next NWM), an AVE-2 cannot end at a street properly. That intersection would be particularly helpful for making residential subdivisions.
Here you go - http://i52.tinypic.com/28lufqs.jpg - uploaded a picture of said road crossing my region horizontally.
Edit - I do have road top addon mod, but they aren't touching the widening mod roads, unless that mod is just completely incompatible to be running at the same time?
Quote from: Tracker on January 30, 2011, 04:15:45 PM
Not sure if you know, but like a TLA-3 ending at a street (RULed with no textures, though Haljackey has made some for the next NWM), an AVE-2 cannot end at a street properly. That intersection would be particularly helpful for making residential subdivisions.
You mean this? That was me... ;) That was back in October of last year.
There's no paths for this; I never got the paths to work the first time... ARD-3 also shares the same problem. Let's see if I can fill the AVE-2 one first...
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 12, 2010, 10:53:21 PM
Alright then,... Here's my intersection. After all, it IS "Show us your Intersections"...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg826.imageshack.us%2Fimg826%2F1310%2Frhwrnd2feb1001286948167.jpg&hash=42783097aec9f8652d791b26a68969c0eb0c8eeb)
Here's the crazy part, though: This intersection does not even exist in the current version of the NWM, and this image was NOT Photoshopped... And no, I'm not a member of the NWM-NAM Team... And no, I'm not a secret Tarkus; I'm just a Happy Tree Friends fan artist whose secondary interests just happen to include Simcity 4. How did I figure out the texture? iFound a pattern in the texture numbering...
Seriously, what's the point of AVE-2's and TLA-3's ending at streets? Can't you just use a road (for the intersection only)?
Besides, even if it was possible to end TLA-3's (or AVE-2's) at streets, it would be unrealistic (especially with the TLA-3)...
Quote from: gooper1 on January 31, 2011, 05:15:23 PM
Besides, even if it was possible to end TLA-3's (or AVE-2's) at streets, it would be unrealistic (especially with the TLA-3)...
Not necessarily. See
here (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Goldfish+Farm+Road+Albany&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Goldfish+Farm+Rd+SE,+Albany,+Oregon&gl=us&ll=44.624473,-123.048141&spn=0.006597,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.624409,-123.048119&panoid=kC5A5AWKoUiVARqLyJRMPA&cbp=12,4.46,,0,7.83) and
here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=SE+30th+Ave+Hillsboro,+OR&aq=&sll=44.624427,-123.048141&sspn=0.006659,0.021136&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=SE+30th+Ave,+Hillsboro,+Washington,+Oregon+97123&ll=45.512304,-122.916027&spn=0.006556,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.512304,-122.916027&panoid=B0Q-hUXk_ZHffwknzsOdVQ&cbp=12,179.78,,0,7.38).
At least in that second instance, I know that TLA-3 is planned to be extended eventually and ends at that Street as a temporary measure. I'd imagine looking at the first instance that the same thing is probably true there. So, if you're looking to create a situation where a collector/arterial road is gradually being built through an area, such an intersection is not implausible and could be useful.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on January 31, 2011, 05:35:02 PM
Not necessarily. See here (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Goldfish+Farm+Road+Albany&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Goldfish+Farm+Rd+SE,+Albany,+Oregon&gl=us&ll=44.624473,-123.048141&spn=0.006597,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.624409,-123.048119&panoid=kC5A5AWKoUiVARqLyJRMPA&cbp=12,4.46,,0,7.83) and here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=SE+30th+Ave+Hillsboro,+OR&aq=&sll=44.624427,-123.048141&sspn=0.006659,0.021136&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=SE+30th+Ave,+Hillsboro,+Washington,+Oregon+97123&ll=45.512304,-122.916027&spn=0.006556,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.512304,-122.916027&panoid=B0Q-hUXk_ZHffwknzsOdVQ&cbp=12,179.78,,0,7.38).
At least in that second instance, I know that TLA-3 is planned to be extended eventually and ends at that Street as a temporary measure. I'd imagine looking at the first instance that the same thing is probably true there. So, if you're looking to create a situation where a collector/arterial road is gradually being built through an area, such an intersection is not implausible and could be useful.
-Alex
I meant to say that it would be unrealistic to end TLA-3's at streets PERMANENTLY.
By the way, the second instance does not involve a TLA-3, it involves a Road with TuLEPs ending at a street.
-Gooper1
Quote from: gooper1 on February 01, 2011, 01:15:29 PM
By the way, the second instance does not involve a TLA-3, it involves a Road with TuLEPs ending at a street.
Try clicking your way down the street in google maps. I've driven down that part of Century. It's a TLA-3.
Quote from: jondor on February 01, 2011, 02:01:55 PM
Try clicking your way down the street in google maps. I've driven down that part of Century. It's a TLA-3.
Tried that. At that intersection (at least), it's a Road with TuLEPs.
Quote from: gooper1 on February 01, 2011, 02:12:57 PM
Tried that. At that intersection (at least), it's a Road with TuLEPs.
The Road TuLEPs are designed to also be used as TLA-3 TuLEPs . . . and AVE-2 TuLEPs and ARD-3 TuLEPs--just a different transition gets used.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on February 01, 2011, 02:36:49 PM
The Road TuLEPs are designed to also be used as TLA-3 TuLEPs . . . [J]ust a different transition gets used.
@gooper1: Also, those pieces are at the end of the TuLEP tab ring, just so you know.
Quote from: gooper1 on February 01, 2011, 01:15:29 PM
By the way, the second instance does not involve a TLA-3, it involves a Road with TuLEPs ending at a street.
I've been thinking about that today...
ARD-3, anybody?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg835.imageshack.us%2Fimg835%2F7116%2Frhwrnd2may2300129651405.jpg&hash=f932f3a5e5b612a2a4c21eaefb29f09c1d76c8af)
(Still lacks stop points and T21s. The paths still need to be perfected... This is something I've been experimenting with last weekend.)The ARD-3, as I have it set up here, could be used to mimic a turn-lane interface. Not unless a street-interfacing SIP gets made first...
Quote from: gooper1 on February 01, 2011, 02:12:57 PM
Tried that. At that intersection (at least), it's a Road with TuLEPs.
Also notice that Century IS in fact 3 lanes all the way down. Admittedly with an extra long gap where the turn lane starts.
In any case, it's a silly argument. There's no need to complain about one little texture that personally rubs you the wrong way.
Just don't use it.Quote from: GDO29Anagram on February 01, 2011, 03:00:17 PM
I've been thinking about that today...
ARD-3, anybody?
Looking good! :thumbsup:
Quote(Still lacks stop points and T21s. The paths still need to be perfected... This is something I've been experimenting with last weekend.)
Well which way would the stop signs face in this setup? Road stopping for street or street stopping for road, or just use an all-way stop?
I have no preference, but I was just wondering since stop signs on 3 lane SC4 roads are virtually non-existant, except when you take a TLA-3 and make a junction with an RHW-2, the RHW has the right away, and the only time I noticed where roads have stop signs instead of signals, which does give a good alternative for realism.
Quote from: j-dub on February 01, 2011, 03:27:50 PM
Well which way would the stop signs face in this setup? Road stopping for street or street stopping for road, or just use an all-way stop?
I have no preference, but I was just wondering since stop signs on 3 lane SC4 roads are virtually non-existant, except when you take a TLA-3 and make a junction with an RHW-2, the RHW has the right away, and the only time I noticed where roads have stop signs instead of signals, which does give a good alternative for realism.
I think an all-way stop is needed.
Ganaram, fine work here--those paths look excellent. :thumbsup:
Quote from: j-dub on February 01, 2011, 03:27:50 PM
Well which way would the stop signs face in this setup? Road stopping for street or street stopping for road, or just use an all-way stop?
I have no preference, but I was just wondering since stop signs on 3 lane SC4 roads are virtually non-existant, except when you take a TLA-3 and make a junction with an RHW-2, the RHW has the right away, and the only time I noticed where roads have stop signs instead of signals, which does give a good alternative for realism.
Quote from: Tracker on February 01, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
I think an all-way stop is needed.
In the two examples I linked, the first from Albany, OR, gives the TLA-3 the right of way while the Street has to stop. The second example from Hillsboro, OR has an all-way stop. I'd probably go with the all-way stop.
-Alex
Will such an intersection be included for NMAVE-4, now that I think of it?
Quote from: Tarkus on February 01, 2011, 04:21:50 PM
Ganaram, fine work here--those paths look excellent. :thumbsup:
In the two examples I linked, the first from Albany, OR, gives the TLA-3 the right of way while the Street has to stop. The second example from Hillsboro, OR has an all-way stop. I'd probably go with the all-way stop.
-Alex
I think the TLA-3 should have the right-of-way, it has more capacity than a street.
Quote from: gooper1 on February 02, 2011, 02:08:02 PM
I think the TLA-3 should have the right-of-way, it has more capacity than a street.
I think not, since it's a general rule that the through-road in a T-intersection has right-of-way.
^^ At least, that's the case in Europe. But then again, TLA's are rarely/never used in Europe...
Quote from: riiga on February 02, 2011, 02:13:06 PM
I think not, since it's a general rule that the through-road in a T-intersection has right-of-way.
That would apply if TLA-3s weren't designed for higher capacity applications (relatively), which I would think merit a stop on the through-street in addition to the obvious stop needed on the ending road.
AVE-2 I can see the through road having the right of way. ARD-3 and TLA-3 (and definitely NMAVE-4) don't work that way.
AVE-2 I can see the through road having the right of way. ARD-3 and TLA-3 (and definitely NMAVE-4) don't work that way.
[/quote]
I agree, since an AVE-2 is just a road with a large median and therefore should be treated (in this respect (and in many others)) like a normal road.
ARD-3 and TLA-3 are nothing more than roads with another lane.
The central lane in TLA-3 could probably be ignored, as it does not carry through traffic, nor add any capacity. ARD-3 is different, though it is still ending, and ending roads give way to through roads in most applications.
Quote from: jdenm8 on February 08, 2011, 01:24:41 AM
ARD-3 and TLA-3 are nothing more than roads with another lane.
The central lane in TLA-3 could probably be ignored, as it does not carry through traffic, nor add any capacity. ARD-3 is different, though it is still ending, and ending roads give way to through roads in most applications.
If you remember the talk about TLA-3 bridges some pages back, I complained about the uselessness of the middle buffer zone (you can't turn on a bridge!) and requested for it to be turned into and ARD-3 bridge, where the central buffer strip could actually be put to use (as a lane of traffic).
We can easily have a TLA-3/AVE-2 bridge and an ARD-3 bridge coexist. Again, the only point of having a TLA-3/AVE-2 bridge is simply for consistency (don't always have room to put transition pieces at both ends) and for RL points (plenty of bridges have "solid medians" on roads that have medians IRL)
BL summed up my thoughts pretty well. :thumbsup:
Of course, it's kind of a moot point, as I don't anticipate that we're going to have bridges as part of this next NWM release.
-Alex
Quote from: gooper1 on February 12, 2011, 05:28:41 PM
If you remember the talk about TLA-3 bridges some pages back, I complained about the uselessness of the middle buffer zone (you can't turn on a bridge!) and requested for it to be turned into and ARD-3 bridge, where the central buffer strip could actually be put to use (as a lane of traffic).
You do realise that the bridge setup BL had in mind was one that would be compatible for BOTH TLA-3 AND AVE-2; They would lack the turn lane paths anyway.And Tarkus and Blue Lightning: Holy jeez, you two just posted what I was going to say at the same time (Minus the consistency bit); What are the odds? :D
Expanding the NWM-realm to CitiesXL 2011 :P
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg718.imageshack.us%2Fimg718%2F3161%2Fgamescreen0035.jpg&hash=c1e0b281a15df79091c8c7043a4e74bf105cfc35)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg819.imageshack.us%2Fimg819%2F4700%2Fgamescreen0034.jpg&hash=11021ccc2e40f8a80acc8eb374df035fd8aea293)
Yes, that's right, a AVE-2 and ARD-3 for CitiesXL 2011! The game already has a AVE-4, MAVE-4, MAVE-5, MAVE-6, OWR-2, OWR-4 and OWR-5, but not these two. I'm also planning to create a OWR-3 for this game. And another thing: the standard RD-2 and AVE-4 in CitiesXL 2011 don't have markings at all (what!?). Fortunatly, I've fixed that issue too.
This is one thing I do when I'm not busy with modding SC4 $%Grinno$%
Best,
Maarten
How do you create new roads for Cities XL 2011?
Hm... That's strange... City Life had AVE-2, why remove it in CitiesXL?
I heard someone was making a RHW Mod of sorts for CXL, I may be wrong though.
^^ Yep, that was me again. But that one unfortunately failed. The game was making it too hard for me ()sad()
You just need to find a Rosetta Stone, so to speak. SC4's RHW was the result of discovering an unused network, for example.
Here's another TLA-3 ending at a street... Both the street and TLA stop. (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=5811+W+Robinson+Way,+Chandler,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85226&ll=33.295738,-111.934863&spn=0.000617,0.001206&t=h&z=20)
I'm not sure if the has been addressed in the thread yet, but are there any plans for overpasses for these networks? Particularly are there any plans for NWM over RHW pieces?
Eventually, yes. But it's very unlikely they'll be in the next release.
-Alex
Is there any FLUPs for TLA-5 so that my one-way roads can go under TLA-5???
Quote from: JeeKTan on February 25, 2011, 09:16:44 PM
Is there any FLUPs for TLA-5 so that my one-way roads can go under TLA-5???
Currently, no. They're on the drawing board, but unlikely to make the next version. In the interim, just use the Avenue ones.
-Alex
Right now, if a TLA-5 ends any road or avenue (no street) at a T, the turn lane markings remain even if there's no left turn in that direction.
With that in mind, there's something I want to show you here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=5811+W+Robinson+Way,+Chandler,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85226&ll=33.297909,-111.997278&spn=0.000872,0.001206&t=h&z=20) – note the diagonal striping from the direction where the only turn is right.
Quote from: Tracker on February 26, 2011, 11:47:57 AM
Right now, if a TLA-5 ends any road or avenue (no street) at a T, the turn lane markings remain even if there's no left turn in that direction.
With that in mind, there's something I want to show you here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=5811+W+Robinson+Way,+Chandler,+Maricopa,+Arizona+85226&ll=33.297909,-111.997278&spn=0.000872,0.001206&t=h&z=20) – note the diagonal striping from the direction where the only turn is right.
Makes sense to me. Interested to see if this feature will make it in at some point. :thumbsup:
Possibly in TuLEP/Cosmetic Piece form. Doing it draggably would basically be similar to doing auto-turnlanes, which is kind of messy from a coding standpoint.
-Alex
One other thing that might make a good puzzle piece: street ends at AVE-2 but doesn't cross to the other side.
Do not want to be not polite, but I want to know had even less chance of new NWM be ready before the end of March. If not please tell me at least, to know how to develop my city. Thank you in advance for your understanding.
- Ivaylo (Ivo)
^^ We are actually more or less busy to plan a release in the early spring. But I can make no guarantees. We ourselves are figuring out how to organise everything for the release...
The role of the NWM in our next release cycle has also been somewhat of an unknown. The next RHW has been a rather intensive project and has required a fairly dedicated effort, and while there has been quite a bit done on the NWM in preparation for a release, it hasn't really progressed any further in the past month or so simply because we haven't had time, and there are still loose ends to tie up on the RHW side.
As much as I'd like to get a new NWM out, it would probably be safest to expect that there will not be an NWM update as part of this release cycle. At most, best case scenario, there will be a minor update.
-Alex
Thank you guys for the information. I'll try to slow the development of my city and maybe we can deal with the construction of airports or ports. Good luck with the development have all my support for your project but still I'll wait three tiles networks.
All the best
- Ivaylo (Ivo)
Hi there,
Love the great work done here and throughout all the NAM projects. Just wondering if anyone has determined what causes the graphic glitch involving the NWM transiton pieces (that especially seem to affect those of us with Nvidia cards.) I've read from previous about playing with the z buffer settings but my laptop's Nvidia GTX 260M doesn't really have that specific setting. I've played with many other settings to no avail. I have noticed that it does not happen (at least not as evidently) on the single tile network transitions.
Cheers and thanks for all the amazing work,
Mitch
I believe Tarkus is working on a fix for the problem that should be in the next NWM, but I'm not sure.
The only reliable fix I've been able to find so far is to remove the wealthification altogether. The only other idea I really have would involve using alpha transparency on the wealth underlays to see if I can cut out the part that is colliding. That's a little tricky, though, given how some of them are laid out.
It's a little tricky for me to really test anything as I've never been able to replicate the bug myself--my graphics card does not produce it.
-Alex
Edit: I've also added the info to the NWM FAQ as Item #20, for future reference, since this question gets asked a lot.
Quote from: Tarkus on March 22, 2011, 02:23:47 PM
It's a little tricky for me to really test anything as I've never been able to replicate the bug myself--my graphics card does not produce it.
You may not be able to test it, but I can. I am able to replicate the bug on my computer and I'd be willing to volunteer to help you test bug fixes and provide feedback to you and the rest of the NAM & NWM Team.
@mitch
1. Did you try to set the rendering of the game to sofware?
2. Did you try in the nVidia Control Center to make a rule for simcity4.exe?
3. Did you upgrade the drivers?
4. Did you play in Full-screen or Window mode?
5. What OS you have?
@vinlabsc3k
hi,
1) I switched to software mode like you suggested (i had to force it via the game shortcut, doing it in game wouldn't work) There was noted improvement but still some minor tearing and graphic glitches
2) My Nvidia control panel lets me alter the graphic settings for specific games/applications including SC4, i've tried a variety (if not all combinations) of filtering, buffering and vertical sync. any changes i made either were too subtle to notice or there were no changes at all.
3) My drivers are all upto date for my ASUS as per the manufacturers site.
4) I use full screen
5)I'm operating Win7 64-Bit with an intel i7 processor (i run the game with a CPU count of 1)
Hope this info is useful, changing to software mode resluted in significant improvement :thumbsup: but at a cost of what appeared to be a loss in overall graphic quality and to some extent games performance, esp at zoom settings further out.
Cheers,
Hope it helps
@mitch
If you have a integrated or mobile (notebook) graphic card this problem may happen becuase the drivers are limited.
If you belong the 1st case, you could buy a PCI-E graphic card.
vinlabsc3k: comicsans..... :'(
mitch: I would just say you are stuck with it. You can't replace your graphics card because
1. its a laptop
2. its not worth it for one game addon
I would suggest keep on doing what you are doing and try to ignore it; that's what i have been doing.
As for the NWM, I feel like this project is certainly taking a back seat to the RHW, which I think makes perfect sense.
Quote from: rushman5 on March 24, 2011, 09:44:04 AM
As for the NWM, I feel like this project is certainly taking a back seat to the RHW, which I think makes perfect sense.
It had been . . . then it kind of got activated again behind the scenes for a very brief period. But both it and the RHW are probably going to end up taking back seat to another project called RL for awhile.
-Alex
Quote from: rushman5 on March 24, 2011, 09:44:04 AM
vinlabsc3k: comicsans..... :'(
I like this font. :D
Quote from: rushman5 on March 24, 2011, 09:44:04 AM
1. its a laptop
I was referred to the integrated case.
Quote from: rushman5 on March 24, 2011, 09:44:04 AM
2. its not worth it for one game addon
The change of the graphic card was a suggestion, because if make a glitch on a ten year old game, it make errors with new games (bluescreen). :'(
Hi all,
I had a downtown who's traffic couldn't be solved by an avenue, so thought "why not try out this NWM thing?". Of course I have a couple dumb questions. The first is will a 1-tile wide piece provide more capacity than a regular road? I assume so if there are more lanes. Second, is it possible to make a 2-tile wide diagonal? Basically, I am trying to replace a bendy avenue with NWM (but perhaps there is a different mod for this?), and then also the side roads with something a little heavier. Thanks.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on April 18, 2011, 01:43:23 PMThe first is will a 1-tile wide piece provide more capacity than a regular road? I assume so if there are more lanes.
As far as I know, the difference is only visual, wider roads don't carry more traffic than normal (Maxis) ones.
Actually, the wider (more lanes) NWM networks do provide more capacity than they're original counterparts. This is not because they have more lanes, as the game calculates traffic congestion per tile (lanes only affect automata and UDI), but because the pathing has been done in such a way that the game considers them intersections. This boosts traffic capacity by 50% under most traffic simulators. For two-tile networks, both MAVE-6 and TLA-5 get a 50% boost over avenues, and all 3-lane, 1-tile networks get a 50% capacity boost over normal roads. There are no 2-tile diagonal networks at the moment.
The 2-tile diagonal networks (such as the Maxis Avenue) suffer from congestion problems because both directions of travel have to squeeze through the shared tiles, so overall their capacity is not much better than a single tile diagonal. The NWM diagonals take up more space to avoid this issue.
Quote from: jondor on April 18, 2011, 02:24:27 PM
The 2-tile diagonal networks (such as the Maxis Avenue) suffer from congestion problems because both directions of travel have to squeeze through the shared tiles, so overall their capacity is not much better than a single tile diagonal. The NWM diagonals take up more space to avoid this issue.
And will the diagonal 2 tile networks be in the next NAM?
(Seems like when I post at the same time as someone my post gets lost...)
My side road have near 1300 cars, so NWM will be the proper expansion (with my roads giving me adviser pop ups at 1000) seeing is how my bus stations did so poorly.
Simply, is a NWM-Tulep-Avenue intersection is a reasonable thing for me to be making in the 2nd tenth of this century? :D
How would one approach a 90 degree 2-tile turn, this too is giving me trouble, though it might have just been my fault. I may even try something a little interesting, as it appears taking out one house gives me much room to play.
Quote from: Opkl on April 18, 2011, 02:28:38 PM
And will the diagonal 2 tile networks be in the next NAM?
In the next NWM update for sure, whether that's concurrent with the next NAM update or not is unknown.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on April 18, 2011, 02:39:51 PM
How would one approach a 90 degree 2-tile turn, this too is giving me trouble, though it might have just been my fault. I may even try something a little interesting, as it appears taking out one house gives me much room to play.
Okay, at the moment, none of the NWM networks have full Diagonal support (none have Diagonal intersections) except for the 2 tilers which have no diagonal or turning support. At all.
The next NWM, as well as having AVE-6 and TLA-7 included, will have two-tile and three-tile network diagonals and 90° curves.
At the moment, the only solution for a 2-Tile NWM curve is to deconvert to Maxis Avenue then reconvert after the curve.
Oh, By the way, only OWR-3, TLA-3, ARD-3, AVE-4, TLA-5 and MAVE-6 have the special intersection pathing that increases the capacity.
@jdenm8: You forgot OWR3. And didn't you mean MAVE6, not AVE6?
Gah. You're right :P
Thanks for the info. :)
Quote from: Lowkee33 on April 18, 2011, 02:39:51 PM
Simply, is a NWM-Tulep-Avenue intersection is a reasonable thing for me to be making in the 2nd tenth of this century? :D
Are you referring to an intersection between an NWM network and an Avenue that's TuLEPed? Fairly easy to do with the current setup--the Avenue TuLEPs dual as TLA-5 TuLEPs (and can be plopped on top of TLA-5s) and the Road ones double as TLA-3/AVE-2/ARD-3 TuLEPs (the transitions for TLA-3/AVE-2 to Road Type A TuLEP are at the end of the TAB Loop). There aren't any TuLEPs for the MAVE-4 or 6 or any of the OWR-type networks as of yet.
Oh, and to confirm the existence of diagonal dual-tile networks, here's a few peeks at it:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg688.imageshack.us%2Fimg688%2F6223%2Fnwm092820101.jpg&hash=12fbd42f3310b2a234b1a9571177cbc2dd38bb4d)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg638.imageshack.us%2Fimg638%2F8702%2Fnwm100420101.jpg&hash=2225e10ac703d938dbaeada89923664f668140fb)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg14.imageshack.us%2Fimg14%2F1589%2Fnwm111920102.jpg&hash=e183810682963845035c7e6e75959f251657ba74)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg132.imageshack.us%2Fimg132%2F4347%2Fnwm010420111.jpg&hash=b999187f03ff27ed50d73a0315e81bfe4913d920)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg59.imageshack.us%2Fimg59%2F7154%2Fnwm010420112.jpg&hash=c1349d7e6dfcd732b4755616b83a204e17accca5)
Triple-tilers, too:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg253.imageshack.us%2Fimg253%2F6204%2Fnwm01032011.jpg&hash=cc5d008059e1aa08d6eca807d0159dde3084a6e5)
Had been hesitant to show them to prevent myself from getting mobbed. :D
All 5 existing dual-tile networks, plus the 2 triple-tile networks that will be in NWM Version 2.0 (TLA-7 and AVE-6) have some sort of diagonal functionality in the current alpha build. They can curve around now but diagonal intersections are not yet in place, and given the
massive amount of work involved in that, I'm not sure they will be in this next release.
The TLA-9, AVE-8, and their asymmetrical counterparts the TLA-8, and AVE-7 will also not be in Version 2.0.
The MAVE-4 and OWR-4 diagonals operate on a "shared-tile" setup, taking the same footprint as the existing Avenue diagonals. The TLA-5, MAVE-6, and OWR-5 operate on a "split-tile" setup, in which the center tile is not shared and they have a higher capacity on the diagonal as a result. The TLA-7 and AVE-6 also operate on a sort of "split-tile" setup that's been modified for a triple-tile arrangement, similar to how the RHW-6C diagonals are set up in the current RHW release.
Development has been slow since about February, and with my current RL, things will continue to be slow for awhile. The main thing is there's a massive backlog of paths that need to be done. That's really the stumbling block on most projects right now.
-Alex
What we observe from you Alex is wonderful. It is nice occasionally to show us how far you've come to work. I am extremely pleased by the diagonal OWR-4 and OWR-5. I think I have received quite well - they are often used by my network for the central part of my cities. As far as I understand the delay in NWM 2.0 is mainly due to the development of Paths.
Can you tell us whether you plan issued to elevated networks of NWM. Maybe OWR-3 or another.
- Ivaylo (Ivo)
...well, its something to look forward to &apls ()stsfd()
thanks for the update...
I don't think elevated networks are planned for this release, and it's not NWM paths slowing most of this release (traffic weaves all over the damn place on RHW $%Grinno$% )
Also, we're trying to implement a bunch of brand-new networks in the RHW (ERHW-6S, ERHW-6C among others) as well as RHW-3 and the NWM networks.
As well as that, the NWM is largely Tarkus' project, he mostly develops it on his own.
Without wanting to touch or offend some of you guys from the NAM team I want to say that the whole project NWM n so far is truly amazing and revolutionary for Sim City 4. The emergence of 3 tiles networks in the near future will propel the game in a whole new orbit. I say that I have nothing against RHW but I think there is undue put too much effort since the networks are RHW developed a pretty good level.My personal opinion is that we should focus on development and design of NWM because this project has a lot to catch up to the RHW. I do not know how things are with you in the kitchen of the team but one person to deal with all this work is impossible to put it mildly.
- Ivo
You're going to have to forgive me. I dragged the NWM piece that is first in the tab ring over the Maxis avenue, and then plopped the only Tulep in the tab ring that was 1x2 over the intersection. This looks
fine great for me, and I am sure there are other things I could play with on the intersection. Are the streets clear now? Yes. Thank you very much for the NAMing.
Quote from: Tarkus on April 18, 2011, 04:31:33 PM
Had been hesitant to show them to prevent myself from getting mobbed. :D
Too late now, already during this post... :).
My foray into a SAM mod really showed me just how many intersections are possible. 3 tile wide networks probably shouldn't have intersections anyway, but I really don't know much about RL networks. I can only think that I would be driving pretty fast on a road like that.
Another post ;D. My only issue with RHW is that it costs nothing to maintain, but please sit back and have some soda with my opinion :)
Quote from: Lowkee33 on April 18, 2011, 05:23:32 PM
You're going to have to forgive me. I dragged the NWM piece that is first in the tab ring over the Maxis avenue, and then plopped the only Tulep in the tab ring that was 1x2 over the intersection. This looks fine great for me, and I am sure there are other things I could play with on the intersection. Are the streets clear now? Yes. Thank you very much for the NAMing.
Too late now, already during this post... :).
My foray into a SAM mod really showed me just how many intersections are possible. 3 tile wide networks probably shouldn't have intersections anyway, but I really don't know much about RL networks. I can only think that I would be driving pretty fast on a road like that.
Another post ;D. My only issue with RHW is that it costs nothing to maintain, but please sit back and have some soda with my opinion :)
Come to Phoenix's East Valley! Two-lane streets intersecting with six-lane roads that have 45mph speed limits; TLA-7s; AVE-6s with turning lanes pretty much at every street; intersections between TLA-5s and AVE-6s; and AVE-6s crossing the equivalent of FAR railroad. Yeah, thought you'd like it.
AVE-6 and TLA-7 are essentially low-speed versions of RHW-6C.
I haven't seen many in RL, but the ones I have seen (in the US) frequently have intersecting roads, but traffic is not allowed to cross the whole way, forcing them to go to the nearest large intersection and do a U-Turn.
Quote from: Lowkee33 on April 18, 2011, 05:23:32 PM
My only issue with RHW is that it costs nothing to maintain
Actually, someone just never got around to changing the LTEXT. ::) According to the NAM Unified Traffic Simulator, the 12th value (which covers RHWs) is set to §0.35 per month. I'll correct that for Version 4.2. :thumbsup:
-Alex
Hmm, I covered a tile with RHW yesterday and it had no cost. Worth me giving it a second look.
The maintenance cost is in the NAM Traffic Simulator, but I'm pretty sure the game doesn't apply it to RHW. I don't think it was coded into the budget function by Maxis, and it seems to be controlled by the EXE.
But unlike Lowkee33, I love to use the RHW in my rural areas where a highway would be too expensive. It's probably a bit of a cheat, but I just pretend the maintenance funds come from the federal government. :P
OR you can just place a bunch of expensive eyecandy to mimic actual highway maintenance costs.
This is getting offtopic now...
Quote from: Lowkee33 on April 18, 2011, 08:42:20 PM
Hmm, I covered a tile with RHW yesterday and it had no cost. Worth me giving it a second look.
You're correct there. Just tried it myself as well. I also discovered that the cost values displayed on the LTEXTs are actually pulled from the network's Type28 exemplar, rather than the Traffic Simulator (for the maintenance cost) or the Network Tuning Parameters exemplar (for the base construction cost). The actual construction cost upon building does appear to emanate from the Network Tuning Parameters exemplar, however. The link-in on the maintenance isn't working at all, though.
I'll have to do some investigation into it. If we can't get it the way it's supposed to work by default, I wonder if it might be possible to rig some workaround with a LUA, reading the number of network tiles and then modifying the budget that way.
Edit: Going at least sort of back on topic:
Quote from: ivo_su on April 18, 2011, 05:21:25 PM
Without wanting to touch or offend some of you guys from the NAM team I want to say that the whole project NWM n so far is truly amazing and revolutionary for Sim City 4. The emergence of 3 tiles networks in the near future will propel the game in a whole new orbit. I say that I have nothing against RHW but I think there is undue put too much effort since the networks are RHW developed a pretty good level.My personal opinion is that we should focus on development and design of NWM because this project has a lot to catch up to the RHW. I do not know how things are with you in the kitchen of the team but one person to deal with all this work is impossible to put it mildly.
No offense taken here, and thanks for the kind words regarding the NWM and the triple-tile networks. I've kind of adapted to the whole understaffing thing (at one point, the RHW and NWM both were actually just me), but it can get overwhelming at times. The thing with the RHW is that it has had a bit of a chip on its shoulder for awhile, so to speak. By its very nature, it gets constantly compared to Maxis and RL highways, there's the quirks of using a "hidden" network, and folks have very different ideas as to what it should be. Trying to find that right balance with that project is really tricky and it requires a lot of very careful thought, and near-constant development and evolution in order for it to really work. And there's really a lot further we can go with it still.
While the NWM had its technical quirks initially, it has a more easily graspable role to fill--wide roads for use in CBDs and suburbs. And after its first release, I think the more contentious aspects of the project have largely subsided, and by Version 3.0, I think it'll have most of what NWM users want out of the mod. But even after we get the multi-height system and the Wider ERHWs in place around the time of RHW Version 5.0, I'd expect we're still going to be fielding a lot of requests for new ramp interfaces and splitters and whatnot.
That all being said, after my current RL stuff subsides and this next NAM/RHW/NWM release cycle is finished, I'm likely going to be taking a look at where I should focus my energies next.
-Alex
I guess the only way to keep from getting mobbed even more will be to erase everyone's memory who saw the pictures. Oh, those delicious pictures... ;D Considering the fact that I had seen little of the triple-tile networks at all, the sight of a diagonal TLA-7 was a pure shock. :o The diagonals seem to have an RHW flavor to them, but I guess that's the good thing about having the RHW as a predecessor to the NWM. What works for the RHW in current releases can be ported over to the NWM in future releases.
As a RL connection between the NWM and RHW, I have actually seen what could be described as a TLRHW-5. That's right, 70 mph with a center turning lane! It sounds oh so dangerous, but my state's good DOT actually built it that way.
Quote from: metarvo on April 19, 2011, 06:07:55 AM
I guess the only way to keep from getting mobbed even more will be to erase everyone's memory who saw the pictures. Oh, those delicious pictures... ;D Considering the fact that I had seen little of the triple-tile networks at all, the sight of a diagonal TLA-7 was a pure shock. :o The diagonals seem to have an RHW flavor to them, but I guess that's the good thing about having the RHW as a predecessor to the NWM. What works for the RHW in current releases can be ported over to the NWM in future releases.
As a RL connection between the NWM and RHW, I have actually seen what could be described as a TLRHW-5. That's right, 70 mph with a center turning lane! It sounds oh so dangerous, but my state's good DOT actually built it that way.
Ours isn't quite that bad, only 55MPH, but US 30 from just past Portland to a little past St. Helens is built that exact same way.
Quote from: metarvo on April 19, 2011, 06:07:55 AM
I guess the only way to keep from getting mobbed even more will be to erase everyone's memory who saw the pictures. Oh, those delicious pictures... ;D Considering the fact that I had seen little of the triple-tile networks at all, the sight of a diagonal TLA-7 was a pure shock. :o The diagonals seem to have an RHW flavor to them, but I guess that's the good thing about having the RHW as a predecessor to the NWM. What works for the RHW in current releases can be ported over to the NWM in future releases.
As a RL connection between the NWM and RHW, I have actually seen what could be described as a TLRHW-5. That's right, 70 mph with a center turning lane! It sounds oh so dangerous, but my state's good DOT actually built it that way.
Sounds like something Texas would do. :P
Quote from: jondor on April 19, 2011, 07:19:26 AM
Ours isn't quite that bad, only 55MPH, but US 30 from just past Portland to a little past St. Helens is built that exact same way.
OR-99 from Eugene to Junction City, and US-20 from Lebanon to Sweet Home (of all places) are the same way, too. There's really not much to turn left into along those roads, but they're striped that way. :D
Of course, you ain't see nothin' yet until you've seen Bake Parkway in Irvine, CA. The speed limit on it alternates between 50mph and 55mph, and
this part (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Bake+Pkwy,+Irvine,+Orange,+California&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hl=en&ie=UTF8&geocode=FdY8AQIdW6D7-A&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&hq=&hnear=Bake+Pkwy,+Irvine,+Orange,+California&ll=33.638374,-117.719804&spn=0.004841,0.010568&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.638372,-117.71991&panoid=jOS4NK4pNYYfsxGWk9koAQ&cbp=12,91.13,,0,13.34) is a TLA-9 with a 55 zone (albeit the driveways are quite scattered). Most of the major arterials around there are like that, actually.
-Alex
Guys do not know how things are with you in the U.S. but here in Sofia would TLA but rather something like 6 or AVE-8. If we do not call them Avenues rather boulevards but it is not important. My thought is that while the limit in populated areas is 50 km / h it on these boulevards speed limit is 80 km / h. They for the most part, there are used as an inter-city highways.
- Ivo
These diagonal MAVEs look cool! And I agree crossings between larger AVEs/MAVEs would be needed.
Quote from: metarvo on April 19, 2011, 06:07:55 AM
As a RL connection between the NWM and RHW, I have actually seen what could be described as a TLRHW-5. That's right, 70 mph with a center turning lane! It sounds oh so dangerous, but my state's good DOT actually built it that way.
ooh arr, takes me back a coupe of months to when i was leaning to drive, and the dreaded right turn onto the 70mph duel carrageway, my instructor took me back to this sooo many times: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.523236,1.725594&spn=0,0.006845&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.523244,1.725418&panoid=NdvakUuOjnUJu3PbQTS09A&cbp=12,97.49,,0,11.21
fortunately it didn't come up in my test or i would have definitely lost makes for hesitation!
this section was built in the 1960s (when there was no speed limit!) thankfully quick fixes like this have been illegal for a very long time (and only a few drivers go right here (almost exclusively learners)),
John
I was only picturing a 3-tile wide intersection both ways, diagonal makes intersections of various road types very complicated indeed. My context is also Boston, where we just don't have room for wide roads. The big dig is basically a place where no-rules-apply. Maybe it's the color of the lights, but traffic speed and lane changes increase dramatically when you are down there. Pheonix I have been to, and a 6 lane with turning lanes does fit in well there.
Got to test drive NWM today. I was having pretty good results tricking one way roads to come out of the intersections, but clearly this is not the point of the mod, and went for what looked best from a DrawPaths perspective. Show us your intersections (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=252.msg375487#msg375487)
Thanks again for the help, I am even beginning to understand what the names of the pieces mean.
Edit: And an actual support question. After doing some NWM work and using the route query, I see many routes that have people driving into the ocean, could probably be explained as a graphical error. Does the game actually think that people are driving like this, and are they having a hard time getting to work?
Someone you thought about the possibility to make splitters to connect the NWM with RHW. Is more than clear that future verisii of NWM 2.0 and RHW 4.2 this can not happen but maybe in the future. Variants are an awful lot but to be more specific would give an example MAVE6/RHW-C6 splitter or something like them. In MAXIS highways is able to bind to OWR-2 I guess you can do something similar to OWR-3 to RHW-6 and 8.
I always wondered what happened to projects in the field of FAR. Made from pieces of streets and roads have pretty good variety but never appeared pieces OWR-2 and AVE-4
-Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on April 19, 2011, 03:15:52 PM
Someone you thought about the possibility to make splitters to connect the NWM with RHW. Is more than clear that future verisii of NWM 2.0 and RHW 4.2 this can not happen but maybe in the future. Variants are an awful lot but to be more specific would give an example MAVE6/RHW-C6 splitter or something like them. In MAXIS highways is able to bind to OWR-2 I guess you can do something similar to OWR-3 to RHW-6 and 8.
NWM/RHW transitions will happen at some point--not sure when, and it'll probably be a gradual process. I know there's a lot of demand there.
Quote from: ivo_su on April 19, 2011, 03:15:52 PM
I always wondered what happened to projects in the field of FAR. Made from pieces of streets and roads have pretty good variety but never appeared pieces OWR-2 and AVE-4
FAR's pretty much a zero-man project right now.
-Alex
I just wanted to say how excited I am to hear that the AVE-6 and TLA-7 will be in the next NAM. I have plenty of roads that could use another pair of lanes.
I was reading along with the discussion, and I also wanted to say that there's a TLA-5 on the northeast side of my hometown which has a speed limit of 60mph. It sounds sorta crazy but it works.
Quote from: Tarkus on April 19, 2011, 04:40:42 PM
FAR's pretty much a zero-man project right now.
I guess you could say . . . . . development information on that project is FAR out right now.
:D
:D not that my .02 (sheesh.. it must be close to a 100 by now) is worth anything... %BUd%
a gentle reminder...
...everything that you have access to is because someone was willing to share their RL skills, knowledge and time with a very appreciative audience.
It is very easy to ask for more... and I acknowledge how easy it is to take for granted that a request can be implemented...
Bottom line... The number of people contributing vs the # of people wanting more... please say thanks for all that we have... before more is asked for... unless you are willing to contribute... :thumbsup:
Hats are off to all those who share.... and THANK YOU for the bandwidth!!!! &bis& &bis& &bis&
tarkus... sorry for going off topic.. :sunny:
Hi there!
It seems that there is missing the AVE2 vs. street intersection texture.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F78366f2300440e8dbf26e8314704479b.jpg&hash=d824eff290ffa5cd5a43c8aa5fd0a2d094c16a73) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/78366f2300440e8dbf26e8314704479b.jpg) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fthumbnails%2F834d7d2d15e3c21122e33385f4a4bf37.jpg&hash=a5f190d5351d815c3c68b79153882971157db5a8) (http://www.ld-host.de/show/834d7d2d15e3c21122e33385f4a4bf37.jpg)
Is this a problem with my plugin, or can somebody reproduce this problem?
I have reproduced this problem, so it's not you, but a missing intersection in the NWM.
It's an intersection that was enabled, but never implemented. It should be in the next NWM.
Quote from: jdenm8 on April 21, 2011, 05:26:59 AM
It's an intersection that was enabled, but never implemented. It should be in the next NWM.
The same is true when the ending road is a TLA-3 or an ARD-3, and those will be in the next NWM as well.
This also happens with normal roads if the street texture is Herringbone, though unlike these cases that one still functions.
Quote from: Wiimeiser on April 23, 2011, 06:45:04 PM
This also happens with normal roads if the street texture is Herringbone, though unlike these cases that one still functions.
No, that was a mistake in the initial distribution of the SAM and a patch was released, but it was buried long ago in the SAM support thread.
I'll see if I can find a link.EDIT: I compiled a list here a while ago, you can probably find a link in this list:
http://www.csgdesign.com.au/CSGf/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=751#p8969
This concerns the Sticky Post:
The user ErwinNegentig, the person who created the NWM video tutorial and all the other NAM tutorials, got banned again, so now the NWM Tutorial Video is once again unavailable. At this point, I highly doubt that he would ever return.
If anyone has a copy of that video, like how Haljackey had a copy of the HSR tutorial, it would be nice to make it available again (But I would recommend AudioSwap, just in case). Otherwise, consider this a challenge to any NAMite or any other NAM worshipper: Create a new NWM Tutorial.
As of other FA networks,... Well,... ::)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg860.imageshack.us%2Fimg860%2F2577%2Ft5fa3template.png&hash=34ee5874e1a9006954ba1eabef4d832a689fc213)
Paths and textures are easy to make. Making the puzzle piece that uses them? For me, not so much. I made this in my spare time; It's just a "supercell" of textures. I would personally do the same for all the other networks, to see if anyone else would carry on the idea.
An FA-AVE4 piece would be like this FA-TLA5 piece, but with different textures and a few pathing differences.
I guess you make a very valid point. I certainly don't want to know the hard way what it takes to get banned from YT, otherwise I was not aware that happened again. I can't remember how many tutorials were by Erwin.
Speaking of which, I have a story to tell you, at least it applies to me.
http://www.youtube.com/v/B9qD1ixxNPQ
I don't know what is worse, the fact that I lost hours and sleep working on something that broke my operating system because something big broke up in windows movie maker, the fact that I can not safely go on the internet in safemode, because safemode starts with my internet drive disabled, the fact I am prevented from doing SimCity, :( Believe me if I could of gotten video to properly work I would of uploaded a video of that to YT instead of Family Guy making fun of me. By the time I uploaded the NWM video I made to YT, it was only black screen, however whatever broke on my pc, its hours of my life I will never get back. None of this would of happened had YT not locked up the existing SimCity videos Erwin did.
QuotePaths and textures are easy to make. Making the puzzle piece that uses them? For me, not so much. I made this in my spare time; It's just a "supercell" of textures. I would personally do the same for all the other networks, to see if anyone else would carry on the idea.
There's the FARHW stuff that can be used as a base to work from.
Quote from: j-dub on April 27, 2011, 02:21:12 PM
I don't know what is worse, the fact that I lost hours and sleep working on something that broke my operating system because something big broke up in windows movie maker, the fact that I can not safely go on the internet in safemode, because safemode starts with my internet drive disabled, the fact I am prevented from doing SimCity, :( Believe me if I could of gotten video to properly work I would of uploaded a video of that to YT instead of Family Guy making fun of me. By the time I uploaded the NWM video I made to YT, it was only black screen, however whatever broke on my pc, its hours of my life I will never get back. None of this would of happened had YT not locked up the existing SimCity videos Erwin did.
Question: do you have Fraps installed? If so, uninstall the program and use an alternative camera (Hypercam for instance). Fraps destabilized my Windows Vista system, especially running Windows Movie Maker. After a dozen 'bootcrashes' (full system crash were after a BSOD the computer restarts) I had enough and did the above. Sincethen I have no problems.
I hope it helps...
Best,
Maarten
EDIT: it turned out somehow my system config settings had the safe mode radio box checked, I only found this out because I managed to find someone else archived who had that happen to them, everything is almost normal, except Windows fails to recognize Kaspersky/fails to recognize my system and start, it tries to start, but gets stuck. Waste of $ anyway, but I don't have time to muck around with that, and am going to see if SC4 will work again.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on April 27, 2011, 01:46:14 PM
This concerns the Sticky Post:
The user ErwinNegentig, the person who created the NWM video tutorial and all the other NAM tutorials, got banned again, so now the NWM Tutorial Video is once again unavailable. At this point, I highly doubt that he would ever return.
If anyone has a copy of that video, like how Haljackey had a copy of the HSR tutorial, it would be nice to make it available again (But I would recommend AudioSwap, just in case). Otherwise, consider this a challenge to any NAMite or any other NAM worshipper: Create a new NWM Tutorial.
I'll get in contact with him to try and get the NWM tutorial video reinstated. I've had no problems with the HSR one, so it shouldn't take much luck to get this one working again.
I've never had a problem with Youtube, video capturing programs and the like, but I've heard some pretty awful stories regarding them, particularly from those who use it as a form of income (not passive income).
Anyways great progress here. Really like the ability to make FAR networks.
What the heck is Deveron? Sounds like a placeholder for YT accounts that aren't partners...
I'll just leave this thread link here. http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13027.0;topicseen
NWM bus stops, a-la RTMT
In the new NWM will there be intersections for diagonals?
Quote from: banditp61 on May 02, 2011, 07:29:00 AM
In the new NWM will there be intersections for diagonals?
There's been some work on it for the single-tile networks. There have been some pathing issues to sort out, however. There will eventually be diagonal intersections for dual and triple-tile networks as well, but there's a massive amount of work involved in doing those, so we may stop and make a release before we get to that point.
-Alex
Quote
There's been some work on it for the single-tile networks. There have been some pathing issues to sort out, however. There will eventually be diagonal intersections for dual and triple-tile networks as well, but there's a massive amount of work involved in doing those, so we may stop and make a release before we get to that point.
-Alex
Hello Alex...
First wish to extend a hearty Thank-you, for what you and the whole NAM-Team does in providing means for an exciting sim city experience...
I'd say that the NWM is my favorite nam add-on, although the RHW gets the more attention... and yes I do hope for good
NWM vr2 before it gets so involved that it will seem like a forever release... so whatever you guys do in game planning releases, I hope that vr2 will be packed, expanding on whats all ready in vr1... before moving on to the more in depth stuff...
I also extend a 'heres hoping' that the pathing chore won't take as long or be troublesome in the making so its eventual release will be as hassle free as possible...
Again Thank-you and the NAM Team for all labor of luv for Sims everywhere
Jack
Quote from: Tarkus on May 02, 2011, 10:53:26 AM
There's been some work on it for the single-tile networks. There have been some pathing issues to sort out, however. There will eventually be diagonal intersections for dual and triple-tile networks as well, but there's a massive amount of work involved in doing those, so we may stop and make a release before we get to that point.
-Alex
Please don't stop. :P
How do you cross a river with the MAVE6 or others I keep getting the dreaded red line unsuitable message. I have tried various ways and no success.
@deanva: You can't. You'll have to convert it to Avenue in order to cross.
Maybe that picture sometime back with the MAVE6 crossing the Maxis water with no bridge model, gave the wrong impression. Initially RHW had no bridge models too. So, while its not yet ready for MAVE6 at this moment Deanva, you know it will at least be possible in the future.
I've always wondered why the new AVE - 6 AVE - 8 will be used the road as base network and not as standard AVE - 4.
Also I was interested in as the next variant of the NWM will AVE - 8, why not and MAVE-8. Otherwise, what bridge I'm sure that will happen but will have some time. However, sad as it is for me still NWM is not as popular as RHW unfortunately. Deeply hope that the future will be.
Greetings to all NAM team.
- Ivaylo (Ivo)
Quote from: ivo_su on May 11, 2011, 04:23:02 PM
I've always wondered why the new AVE - 6 AVE - 8 will be used the road as base network and not as standard AVE - 4.
AVE-6 and AVE-8 are triple-tile networks. Default AVE-4 is a dual-tile network. There are no working natively dual-tile override networks in place (only experimental prototypes), and it would require taking two AVE-4s and cutting one in half to get a triple-tile width, which is more trouble than it's worth. Diagonals would become a different can of worms entirely because of the shared-tile vs. split-tile issue.
Road was really the only viable option and gives a lot more flexibility. We considered OWRs for part of the override as well, but the whole stop point thing was problematic. I have considered switching the outer tiles of AVE-8 and TLA-9 over to OWR anyway, as that would get them a higher capacity and make them actually be useful for something more than mere eyecandy.
Quote from: ivo_su on May 11, 2011, 04:23:02 PM
Also I was interested in as the next variant of the NWM will AVE - 8, why not and MAVE-8.
Actually, AVE-8 won't be in Version 2.0. Just AVE-6 and TLA-7. There's been some preliminary discussion of triple-tile MAVEs, but nothing serious on that front, and I'm not sure how many RL examples there are out there or how useful it'd actually be. If someone can find some RL examples for me, I'd be more inclined to consider it for a future addition in Version 3.0.
-Alex
Alex I know that AVE-8 will appear in version 3.0. But trust me, pretty tight operation and development of NWM. Just my English is terrible and I hardly say what I want correctly. As examples of MAVE-8 am absolutely sure that they exist in Moscow. The bad thing is that I do not know how to copy a picture from Google Earth to show you visually.
- Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on May 11, 2011, 04:47:52 PM
As examples of MAVE-8 am absolutely sure that they exist in Moscow. The bad thing is that I do not know how to copy a picture from Google Earth to show you visually.
That wound up being enough information I was able to find one: the
Tverskaya ulitsa (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Moscow,+Russia&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=&hnear=Moscow,+Russia&ll=55.75936,37.611609&spn=0.001636,0.005284&t=h&z=18) in Moscow.
Edit: Looks like there's an
OWR-8 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Moscow,+Russia&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=&hnear=Moscow,+Russia&ll=55.758418,37.61766&spn=0.001636,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=55.758418,37.61766&cbp=12,0,,0,0&photoid=po-9787233) just down the road, too. :o Looks like I may have some new networks to consider after exploring Moscow.
-Alex
I'm glad if I had something useful. I'll try to look MAVE - 8 because I'm sure I've seen similar in Moscow. You may be surprised but I also have and MAVE - 10. Overall, Russians are pretty crazy and impractical but what the hell.
Ivo
@ivo_su: Don't worry; I'm try to look for some. (Off to Russia!!!) I'll also try to find some MAVE8's that are a little closer to home. (Wow Alex you're fast... Too bad Google Maps is failing on me... Oh well; Google Earth...)
(MAVE8 sounds suicidal in my opinion; There's no way in a million years that two lines of yellow paint would be enough to safely isolate the two directions of traffic... But if they exist, might as well consider it then.
@Alex: AVE8-TLA9 with OWR-based outer parts? Interesting prospect... But an OWR-8?!! Russia has some insane road networks... :D
Let me take a whack at it... We got a record-breaker: The MAVE-18. From first looks, Moscow doesn't have a well-extensive system of controlled-access roads, so to make up for that, the make their surface streets as big as highways.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on May 11, 2011, 05:16:41 PM
@ivo_su: Don't worry; I'm try to look for some. (Off to Russia!!!) I'll also try to find some MAVE8's that are a little closer to home. (Wow Alex you're fast... Too bad Google Maps is failing on me... Oh well; Google Earth...)
(MAVE8 sounds suicidal in my opinion; There's no way in a million years that two lines of yellow paint would be enough to safely isolate the two directions of traffic... But if they exist, might as well consider it then.
@Alex: AVE8-TLA9 with OWR-based outer parts? Interesting prospect... But an OWR-8?!! Russia has some insane road networks... :D
Let me take a whack at it... We got a record-breaker: The MAVE-18. From first looks, Moscow doesn't have a well-extensive system of controlled-access roads, so to make up for that, the make their surface streets as big as highways.
OWR-8 ... and people doing dangerous lane cuts (crossing all lanes curb to curb at once) on a OWR-4 is bad enough... but someone doing that on a OWR-8?? :shocked2: ()flamdev()
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on May 11, 2011, 05:16:41 PM
From first looks, Moscow doesn't have a well-extensive system of controlled-access roads, so to make up for that, the make their surface streets as big as highways.
Yeah, I definitely think we're looking at outliers here.
Yeah
really there are so extensive networks and interesting about them is that ogranitsenieto speed is 80-90 km / h and then in the city center. Can you imagine what if must be crossed by pedestrians. The problem is that everywhere there are subways and pedestrian paths are long at 40-50 m. Especially here in Sofia there are 10-15 boulevard where the limit is 80 km / h, imagine what is in Moscow.
P.S.
Please look at the Bull. "Sadovoye Kol'tso" because to me very similar to MAVE - 14. It really surprises me, even me. I knew for large networks in Moscow, but it made me crazy.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=55.772044,37.639112&spn=0.001476,0.006866&t=h&z=18&lci=com.panoramio.all
Ivo
I've done more research: The capitol of Argentina sports a 14-lane road: The AVE-14. And that one is punctuated by so many intersections, it's like waiting at a red light, only to find that the next light that's 300 feet from you just turned red. Cars appear to get trapped there.
Moscow, Russia isn't the only place that has MAVE8's; Manila, Philippines has a MAVE8 near the shipping docks (Half of its lanes are used as parking lots, and it also performs a 90-deg curve, not two 45's). There's also an AVE-12 and, of all things, an 8-lane roundabout. Plus, its AVE8's make half-intersections with MAVE4's.
Quote from: Kitsune on May 11, 2011, 05:44:35 PM
OWR-8 ... and people doing dangerous lane cuts (crossing all lanes curb to curb at once) on a OWR-4 is bad enough... but someone doing that on a OWR-8??
I guess you'll understand what I mean when I say that these roads are suicidally wide.
Where's the dividing line between in-game realism and real-life impracticality?
@Ivo: That's the road that contains the MAVE-18 segment. It's one of Moscow's ring roads.
As far as I am aware in SimSity the biggest city on the map size is 4x4 km. I think it renders the networks with more than 5 lanes in one direction because it must still remain and some space for buildings and other spaces. Perhaps if the map scale permits more than 4x4 km would make sense to think and so wide networks. But let us not forget that in RL there are towns with more than 30 million in a difficult SimSity reached 10 million
At least my record is 4.5 million, and loading for road network should not be so large and require such mega networks.
Ivo
In SC4 it is possible to hit 30,000,000 sims, but you've gotta play that city as multiple tiles in a Region (ala municipal councils and counties).
I don't know of any city on earth that has the highest population density I've reached (1,500,000 in 4km2) in SimCity 4.
Quote from: ivo_su on May 11, 2011, 06:43:58 PM
As far as I am aware in SimSity the biggest city on the map size is 4x4 km. I think it renders the networks with more than 5 lanes in one direction because it must still remain and some space for buildings and other spaces. Perhaps if the map scale permits more than 4x4 km would make sense to think and so wide networks.
Actually, network widening isn't limited to rendering; It's only limited to practicality
1 and realism
2. Besides, MAVE6 is 6 lanes; Is it all in one direction? This also brings up how an OWR6 can be "theoretically" possible: Same size as a MAVE6, but all the lanes are in one direction. Same can be said for an RHW12S, though with the 12S, you can fit that many lanes into the same space as an RHW8S or RHW10S. At the very least, these networks can have more than five lanes, in ANY size of city tile.
1 - This includes in-game limitations, such as capacity and how big of a footprint such a network would need. Example: The RHW8C was once considered impossible because overhang technology wasn't developed then (Neither were the V5 lane size specifications), and it would've taken up FIVE tiles. Another example: Limitations with the RULs, making the NWM, at the time, incompatible with the RTL.
2 - This reflects on how real-life road systems are used as a benchmark and how close the NAM team can get to that. Example: The reason why the cutoff for OWR is five lanes is because that appears to be the average maximum size for a one-way road (At least in the US). Though there are some cases (Even in the US) where there are six-lane OWRs.
Another thing considered, should be NWM roundabouts. No need to exagerate, but lets say an 8x8 or 10x10 4 laner would be awesome to have.
Sounds like a job for RABETs :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg697.imageshack.us%2Fimg697%2F2533%2Frabetslogodraft.png&hash=e9b95b73ed0039f8a5eaf35ef63ff432d4db4f52)
Unfortunately, from my understanding a puzzle piece of that size would be an incredible amount of work and thus not likely any time soon. A more likely solution would be approximating a circle using potential future NWM OWR wide-radius curves.
Hello..
As in NAM Development thread, I would like to ask how do I'll get something like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi25.servimg.com%2Fu%2Ff25%2F15%2F75%2F40%2F01%2Fdsc04915.jpg&hash=57219b34572c2ec59239f3ac47434624aab20fc4)
sorry if I'm just annoying.. :angrymore:
@976: Too easy; I'd add some props using T21 exemplars. But then the median looks narrower than the standard AVE2; I'd modify the AVE2 textures into giving it a narrower median.
All this is an aesthetic modification; You're changing the looks of something that's already available, and what's already available is the AVE2. Besides, that's a lot of textures to modify.
hey will the diagonal single tile networks have intersections? like with other roads,rail, and rhw?
ohh and will there be any flups underpasses for any of the nwm networks?
@TJ1: No FLUP underpasses, at least not yet, although there is some diagonal functionality planned.
Hey guys,
I don't know if you are aware of this bug, or 'feature.' :P
Anyway, I've already bulldozed the section of affected road and remade it. The problems come back.
What happens is that on my MAVE-6, when the Sims want to make a left turn onto a zone, they shoot across the city tile (as shown in the pic) and come back.
I'm just wanting to know if it is indeed a bug, or it's normal. If it's a bug, when do we expect it to be fixed?
Thanks again
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Lk37z1XqITSwvI3-fknI7lIy71ZU947ekGAaeKCckYs?feat=directlink
That was fixed with the zzz-MAVE-6 patch, which is attached to the first post of the thread (which appears at the top of every page of this thread). Simply download that attachment, and unzip it to your Plugins\Network Addon Mod\Network Widening Mod folder.
-Alex
Ah, so you WERE aware of it.
Only one problem... You did not make me aware of it.
...Until now. :P
EDIT: After installation of the patch... the problem still persists. Should I let the game run for a few in-game years? Or should I rebuild the affected section of MAVE-6?
The traffic simulator takes time to realize that it can no longer engage in that wackiness, so it basically needs to refresh, which takes at least a few in-game months (if you're running the game on a higher play speed, like Cheetah, it can take longer than that).
-Alex
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on May 12, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
@976: Too easy; I'd add some props using T21 exemplars. But then the median looks narrower than the standard AVE2; I'd modify the AVE2 textures into giving it a narrower median.
All this is an aesthetic modification; You're changing the looks of something that's already available, and what's already available is the AVE2. Besides, that's a lot of textures to modify.
I think it's more looks like MAVE 4 or NMAVE 4 because of the median size.. so I think better to add barriers to those network..
btw where to download it?
The NWM? That'd be found here (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2376).
Speaking of the NWM, a belated happy birthday to its first release, Version 1.0, which came out one year and one week ago (May 9, 2010). &dance
So, in honor of the occasion, another little peek at its next full successor, NWM Version 2.0:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg263.imageshack.us%2Fimg263%2F8809%2Fnwm031620111.jpg&hash=b2cf8206d1ef2a914e8df1de5fa6b81af0dae4a5)
-Alex
Oh that is amazing :D thank you so much Alex and NWM team :D
:o
I remember the day the NWM was released and how amazing it was and still is. And.. the sneak peak of 2.0... well.. WOW! &apls
Whoa
Well done it looks amazing, great, perfect and wonderful. Alex will not be angry if you show more pictures such secrets because they have spiritual joy for us.
I adore NWM and I'm in love with this project.
Ivo
Wow! TuLEPs and everything! Quite fancy ::) Very excited for the next release!
Quote from: noahclem on May 12, 2011, 06:44:53 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg697.imageshack.us%2Fimg697%2F2533%2Frabetslogodraft.png&hash=e9b95b73ed0039f8a5eaf35ef63ff432d4db4f52)
That sounds like a good project idea.
I flipped through a dozen or so pages looking to see if this had been brought up before, but I didn't see anything about it - I hope I'm not repeating something.
I noticed a strange oddity with the NWM TLA-3 and RHW MIS... Wasn't sure which thread it belonged in, but it seems to be more the TLA-3 (as this doesn't occur with other roads intersecting MIS).
In a nutshell, freight traffic (ie - trucks) don't seem to be able to make this left turn.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi134.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq103%2FTwyla_Naythias%2FNWM_oddity.jpg&hash=6bea4fea8ceb9dade99eafa5a781c98813bd7153)
Flipping around locations and shifting commutes, it seems that cars can navigate between TLA-3 and MIS just fine - it's only the trucks that can't/don't. And even if my Sims don't mind the trucks making California U-Turns in the residential areas, I'd still prefer to cut the extra 86 tiles from their routes.
Any notion what's causing this?
@Twyla: Good thing you brought that up.
Well, the TLA-3 is designed with turn-lane paths, but in order for them to work properly with an intersection (in your case, MIS), the ortho stretch of TLA-3 has to be uninterrupted for at least one tile beyond the intersection. The problem here is due to the ERHW4-TLA3 crossing: Those turn-paths are absent, resulting in having no means of turning left.
Watch closely:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg151.imageshack.us%2Fimg151%2F5779%2Ftla3bug.jpg&hash=c2cf0be5b079c3b1cfeba98c536573cbdc1b1a86)
A simple path fix would do the job. But just in case that's a long way's off, you could always have a one-tile gap between the MIS and ERHW-4. This restores the turn-lane that's needed.
5-minute quickie interim fix attached below . . . should do the trick for now--thanks for catching that one, Twyla! :thumbsup:
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 16, 2011, 11:49:56 PM
The NWM? That'd be found here (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2376).
Speaking of the NWM, a belated happy birthday to its first release, Version 1.0, which came out one year and one week ago (May 9, 2010). &dance
So, in honor of the occasion, another little peek at its next full successor, NWM Version 2.0:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg263.imageshack.us%2Fimg263%2F8809%2Fnwm031620111.jpg&hash=b2cf8206d1ef2a914e8df1de5fa6b81af0dae4a5)
-Alex
umm no.. I mean T21 stuff for MAVE 4...
@976: Look above at the sticky post in the Optional Addons section. There's a download link for some MAVE-4 T21 stuff.
Quote from: Tarkus on May 16, 2011, 11:49:56 PM
The NWM? That'd be found here (http://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2376).
Speaking of the NWM, a belated happy birthday to its first release, Version 1.0, which came out one year and one week ago (May 9, 2010). &dance
So, in honor of the occasion, another little peek at its next full successor, NWM Version 2.0:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg263.imageshack.us%2Fimg263%2F8809%2Fnwm031620111.jpg&hash=b2cf8206d1ef2a914e8df1de5fa6b81af0dae4a5)
-Alex
So the TuLEPS in this pic are what we would use for the MAVE-6? Also, is the traffic signal in the pic just temporary or will there be another one when released? Notice how there are only 3 lights but 4 lanes?
@Opkl: Those are actually TuLEPs for AVE-6. I don't know about the traffic lights for sure, but I'd guess that they'd be switched out for ones with four lights upon release. An official NAM Team member will be able to answer your question for sure.
Hey Alex,
I couldn't help but notice that there seems to be a slight date error in the sticky message..
Should the Street Side Mod for MAVE-4 and the MAVE-4 & MAVE-6 No Grass mods (under the Optional Addons) dates not be the 01/29/2011 instead of 2010? ;)
Quote from: Opkl on May 18, 2011, 01:02:31 PM
So the TuLEPS in this pic are what we would use for the MAVE-6? Also, is the traffic signal in the pic just temporary or will there be another one when released? Notice how there are only 3 lights but 4 lanes?
They're TuLEPs for the new triple-tile networks, TLA-7 and AVE-6, which will be included in NWM Version 2.0.
As far as the traffic signal goes, a three-light setup for a situation like that is
not at all unusual (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=SW+Tualatin+Valley+Hwy+%26+SW+Murray+Blvd,+Beaverton,+Washington,+Oregon+97005&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&geocode=Fa4dtgIdgtKt-A&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&hq=&hnear=SW+Tualatin+Valley+Hwy+%26+SW+Murray+Blvd,+Beaverton,+Washington,+Oregon&ll=45.488343,-122.824359&spn=0.008093,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.489597,-122.826257&panoid=8FpMoSwiisvk1l283o0wFQ&cbp=12,274.36,,0,0.09)--the turn lane setup on the Tualatin Valley Hwy is identical to what we have here with this TuLEP, in fact. In fact, there are even some two-lighters around (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Franklin+Blvd+and+Agate+Street&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=&hnear=Franklin+Blvd+%26+Agate+St,+Eugene,+Lane,+Oregon+97401&ll=44.046651,-123.069985&spn=0.008298,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.046599,-123.069662&panoid=w5-OqrFXToMa6WPNTGEzZQ&cbp=12,302.72,,0,9.14)[/b] where no left turns are allowed. (That smaller third signal is not for regular vehicular traffic, but a special signal for the Bus Rapid Transit line that runs down the median.) That's perfectly permissible by the MUTCD.
In order to have a signal that properly matched up with the width of the network, we'd need to include some new signal mast arm models in the NAM Props set. I do actually have some that would work, adapted from some models
Ryan B. gave me, and they look quite nice, but they don't match with the default style. I'd anticipate this will probably be what the final default version will look like. Quite some time ago, however, I actually started on a signal cosmetic mod using new signals I made, coupled with Ryan's mast arm assemblies and had planned on expanding it to include situations like this intersection, though the mod isn't anywhere near completion yet. I probably won't get back to it until we're much closer to the next NAM/RHW/NWM release.
-Alex
Quote from: Nego on May 18, 2011, 01:10:04 PM
@Opkl: Those are actually TuLEPs for AVE-6. I don't know about the traffic lights for sure, but I'd guess that they'd be switched out for ones with four lights upon release. An official NAM Team member will be able to answer your question for sure.
How fast reply Nego. ;D . I think you might've got confused about my TuLEP question. I was wondering if you would have to convert from MAVE-6 to AVE-6 for turning lanes like one has to do with MAVE-4 being converted to either AVE-4 or TLA-5. So MAVE-6 will have it's own TuLEP's?
The only MAVE-6 TuLEPs really planned are right turn lanes, which will convert the network into a MAVE-4 on the other side. There hasn't been any development on a MAVE-6-to-triple-tile transition yet. I'd anticipate it'll happen eventually, but I'm not sure we'll have that for Version 2.0.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 18, 2011, 01:22:38 PM
They're TuLEPs for the new triple-tile networks, TLA-7 and AVE-6, which will be included in NWM Version 2.0.
As far as the traffic signal goes, a three-light setup for a situation like that is not at all unusual (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=SW+Tualatin+Valley+Hwy+%26+SW+Murray+Blvd,+Beaverton,+Washington,+Oregon+97005&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&geocode=Fa4dtgIdgtKt-A&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&hq=&hnear=SW+Tualatin+Valley+Hwy+%26+SW+Murray+Blvd,+Beaverton,+Washington,+Oregon&ll=45.488343,-122.824359&spn=0.008093,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.489597,-122.826257&panoid=8FpMoSwiisvk1l283o0wFQ&cbp=12,274.36,,0,0.09)--the turn lane setup on the Tualatin Valley Hwy is identical to what we have here with this TuLEP, in fact. In fact, there are even some two-lighters around (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Franklin+Blvd+and+Agate+Street&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=&hnear=Franklin+Blvd+%26+Agate+St,+Eugene,+Lane,+Oregon+97401&ll=44.046651,-123.069985&spn=0.008298,0.021136&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.046599,-123.069662&panoid=w5-OqrFXToMa6WPNTGEzZQ&cbp=12,302.72,,0,9.14)[/b] where no left turns are allowed. (That smaller third signal is not for regular vehicular traffic, but a special signal for the Bus Rapid Transit line that runs down the median.) That's perfectly permissible by the MUTCD.
In order to have a signal that properly matched up with the width of the network, we'd need to include some new signal mast arm models in the NAM Props set. I do actually have some that would work, adapted from some models Ryan B. gave me, and they look quite nice, but they don't match with the default style. I'd anticipate this will probably be what the final default version will look like. Quite some time ago, however, I actually started on a signal cosmetic mod using new signals I made, coupled with Ryan's mast arm assemblies and had planned on expanding it to include situations like this intersection, though the mod isn't anywhere near completion yet. I probably won't get back to it until we're much closer to the next NAM/RHW/NWM release.
-Alex
Well I just found this Illinois intersection from google maps in a town not too far away from me. http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.505267,-87.729821&spn=0,0.026264&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.506089,-87.732346&panoid=j5ghFjev2O3xVF6YbDkVDw&cbp=12,62.54,,0,15.74 (http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.505267,-87.729821&spn=0,0.026264&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.506089,-87.732346&panoid=j5ghFjev2O3xVF6YbDkVDw&cbp=12,62.54,,0,15.74) This intersection is between a AVE-6 and TLA-5 and has only
ONE signal. While 15 miles east over the state line in Indiana, this SAME road with the SAME intersection setup has many more lights, 5 to be exact: http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.470901,-87.336159&spn=0,0.105057&z=13&layer=c&cbll=41.470906,-87.335916&panoid=jcp33UeRfFR-q17ouI-uvQ&cbp=12,87.79,,0,5.15 (http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.470901,-87.336159&spn=0,0.105057&z=13&layer=c&cbll=41.470906,-87.335916&panoid=jcp33UeRfFR-q17ouI-uvQ&cbp=12,87.79,,0,5.15). I just wanted to point that out $%Grinno$% . However, IL is starting to replace lights like the one in the first link I posted above, to this: http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.506051,-87.713186&spn=0,0.105057&z=13&layer=c&cbll=41.506051,-87.713186&panoid=cgjAy2xusC6dRucTQe0SgQ&cbp=12,64.85,,0,-2.35 (http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.506051,-87.713186&spn=0,0.105057&z=13&layer=c&cbll=41.506051,-87.713186&panoid=cgjAy2xusC6dRucTQe0SgQ&cbp=12,64.85,,0,-2.35) . At first, the poles with 3 lights only had 2. For some reason they only did a 50% job because they left the other two lights for Governors Hwy the same. (only 1 light)
I think you've demonstrated my point quite accurately . . . the way in which roads of this width are signalized varies wildly, even between signal installations made by the same municipal body, and even during roughly the same time frame.
-Alex
Before the corruption and the debt, that situation was suppose to be replaced for an up to date setup. I used to see those signals get replaced left to right.
That type of intersection with the slip lane with those dual pole signals did exist by me at one time, but then when they widened the intersection, they added more lights. I think the traffic signal intersections in the background on Lincoln Hwy demonstrate the difference in time from when that intersection was built, the background signals do not have the dual light poles, and there is more lights on them, that are closer to the lane setup.
Did I miss a fix somewhere for this?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glidingeagle.com%2Fimages%2Fsc4%2Fpath.jpg&hash=2bb05377e4af74eca5b250071e96f9875e7afd0c)
I don't recall ever hearing about anyone having that one before . . . I'll have to check it out.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 23, 2011, 01:02:37 PM
I don't recall ever hearing about anyone having that one before . . . I'll have to check it out.
-Alex
See here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8460.msg380261#msg380261) for another mention.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg146.imageshack.us%2Fimg146%2F812%2Fnoleft.th.jpg&hash=a949b9ba15484e67707eba251605d27156dadd8d) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/146/noleft.jpg/)
My sims aren't able to turn left from pictured intersection. The DrawPaths cheat should be able to demonstrate what's happening as I am not knowledgeable enough to see the problem.
EDIT: @Joe: I just saw that you linked back to my post as I was posting here. :p It's been mentioned already, so I don't know which one to disregard. :\
This question is probably asked before by someone else and maybe not here right place to ask but I am interested why after so many years of development and evolution of NAM team has commenced construction of FAR pieces OWR - two and why not for OWR - 3 ???
- Ivaylo
Quote from: ivo_su on May 23, 2011, 03:07:53 PM
This question is probably asked before by someone else and maybe not here right place to ask but I am interested why after so many years of development and evolution of NAM team has commenced construction of FAR pieces OWR - two and why not for OWR - 3 ???
- Ivaylo
How come there's no FAR pieces for OWR, or anything else? Easy. It's a zero-man job.
Quote from: Tarkus on April 19, 2011, 04:40:42 PM
FAR's pretty much a zero-man project right now.
I wondered about the same exact thing, and responded with a FATLA-5.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on April 27, 2011, 01:46:14 PM
As of other FA networks,... Well,... ::)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg860.imageshack.us%2Fimg860%2F2577%2Ft5fa3template.png&hash=34ee5874e1a9006954ba1eabef4d832a689fc213)
. . .
An FA-AVE4 piece would be like this FA-TLA5 piece, but with different textures and a few pathing differences.
I should SERIOUSLY convert EVERYTHING to FA, don't you think, Ivo?
Someone's gotta start on that... Well, the ironic part is that YOU asked a similar question before...
Quote from: ivo_su on April 19, 2011, 03:15:52 PM
I always wondered what happened to projects in the field of FAR. Made from pieces of streets and roads have pretty good variety but never appeared pieces OWR-2 and AVE-4
I don't blame you for asking about other FAR items; I asked about a FARHW-8S a long time ago... $%Grinno$%
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on August 30, 2010, 02:37:27 PM
- Is a FARHW-8S piece possible, or would it be rather bulky?
Rest assured that they're all possible. Someone's gotta make them first...
Upsss
Have put forward, perhaps this issue huh? But I do not know how much work is zero, however, what interested me in a specific curva OWR 90 and 45 degrees. We have such a street, road and railway, and I think that has to RHW
@legoman
I don't think I've ever seen that puzzle piece before... but anyway,
It looks like the turn lane paths in that intersection are for the old version of Type-A TuLEPs (back when both directions were on their own tile). Looks like an easy enough fix, I'll take a look at it.
EDIT:
That's not a puzzle piece, that's the TLA-5 x OWR-2 intersection (thus why I've never seen it before :P )
They wouldn't be able to turn left because the slightly different ways that the crossover lanes are pathed compared to the TuLEPs.
TLA-5 has traffic stay in their own tile until they turn, whereas Type-A TuLEPs make cars cross over into the tile usually reserved for oncoming traffic (to reduce the traffic slowing effect I think).
This means that the paths for TLA-5 to turn into that intersection are diagonally adjacent (sims can only move forward, backward, left and right, not diagonally) to the actual exit paths of Type-A TuLEPs.
You can just see the arrow in the middle of the intersection, meaning that the path comes from the right-hand tile, whereas Type-A TuLEPs have the turn lane paths on the left-hand tile. That's also why you can't switch out of the turn lane in a Type-A TuLEP in UDI.
An update on the pathing things . . . I've replicated the OWR-3-ending-at-MAVE-6 T-intersection pathing issue and the same issue exists with the analogous MAVE-4 intersection. Will have them fixed shortly.
legoman786, as far as your issue goes, that's definitely an NWM issue rather than a TuLEPs issue. Theoretically, traffic should be able to make that left turn from the TLA-5 onto the OWR-2 . . . if you'll look closely, you'll notice a left turn path originating from the center lane of the network. Things with any sort of "Long-T" intersection (where the intersecting network touches both tiles of the dual-tile NWM network) will look a bit odd from the pathing standpoint, as the "Long-T" is basically half of a +-intersection combined with an actual "Long-T" intersection, so there's some paths that get cut off from the +-intersection part because they're not needed on the T.
I don't really have an answer as to why it's not working as of yet, however. The paths looks exactly like they should and there is a clear route connecting the two networks. It's really baffling.
Quote from: ivo_su on May 23, 2011, 03:07:53 PM
This question is probably asked before by someone else and maybe not here right place to ask but I am interested why after so many years of development and evolution of NAM team has commenced construction of FAR pieces OWR - two and why not for OWR - 3 ???
I actually started on some OWR Wide-Radius Curves a long time ago. However, there are a lot of wacky issues with OWR-based puzzle pieces that involve network stubs, and they've gone by the wayside for the time being. I've been meaning to get back to them, but I can't say when. Unfortunately, while I can do some pretty quick modding turnaround work, I can't do everything everyone wants instantly. :D There's never been any effort to do FA-OWR, however.
-Alex
Check my edit Tarkus :P
D'oh! Somehow I failed to see that legoman786 had Type A Avenue TuLEPs on that intersection. That would totally explain it.
-Alex
Either way, we're gonna have to wait for a fix then? Not griping, just kinda bummed that it turned out the way it did.
Actually, if I remember correctly, I've been lurking with the community since RHW pre-alpha.
You're awesome, Tarkus, and the community as a whole.
I wish I could spare the time to read on pathing and editing. One more set of hands would definitely mean help, regardless how big or small.
Hm... It's something that could be changed to allow its use, but it's a bit of a change to allow for one configuration of TuLEPs (But then again, there's one less fiddly little OWR Puzzle Piece to make)
I'm gonna try a Type-B intersection there. See what happens.
No dice... Straight through paths don't even line up. Should have expected that. Oh, well.
Thanks for the kind words, legoman! :)
Quote from: jdenm8 on May 23, 2011, 05:31:27 PM
Hm... It's something that could be changed to allow its use, but it's a bit of a change to allow for one configuration of TuLEPs (But then again, there's one less fiddly little OWR Puzzle Piece to make)
Part of the reason for having OWR "SIPs"-type pieces is for the signalization, which doesn't work natively on the OWR, in large part due to the whole tidal-flow thing--one actually wouldn't be necessary for the exact situation show here, however. Redesigning the TLA-5 paths slightly might allow TuLEPs to be used more flexibly along the network . . . I'll have to look into it further.
And speaking of OWR intersections, I've fixed up the MAVE-4 and MAVE-6 Long-Ts with the OWR-3. The fix is attached below. I've actually optimized the paths a fair bit and hopefully, you'll like the results. As always, just unzip the archive into your Plugins\Network Addon Mod\Network Widening Mod folder. I'll see if I can get it attached to the sticky post as well.
-Alex
I got a question... why does the NMAVE-4 and MAVE-4 have different capacities?
Quote from: Kitsune on May 26, 2011, 02:18:07 PM
I got a question... why does the NMAVE-4 and MAVE-4 have different capacities?
The NMAVE-4 is a single-tile network, while the MAVE-4 is a dual-tile network. While with DIPs, it is possible to trick the game into increasing the NMAVE-4 capacity above the default Road capacity, it's not possible to get it on par with the MAVE-4.
-Alex
^^ That's because the NMAVE is a single tile network and the MAVE is a dual tile network. And with SIP's you van only increase capacity by about 25%, and not double it...
EDIT: Alex was just a little bit faster with his reply ;)
Is the NMave4 going to be in the next release?
Quote from: Opkl on May 26, 2011, 02:52:27 PM
Is the NMave4 going to be in the next release?
Yes. It'll be one of 3 new networks in Version 2.0, along with the triple-tile TLA-7 and AVE-6.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on May 26, 2011, 12:09:38 PM
Actually, a DIPped MHW would have a higher capacity . . . the Maxis Highway capacity figures generally shown operate on the unit of a single-tile, rather than the full-span capacities shown in the RHW's capacity table. In the Medium capacity version, a 2-tile span of DIPped MHW would have a capacity of 37500.
I was actually gonna ask about DIPing the two-tile networks, such as AVE-4. Has it been experimented on the diagonals, especially the shared-tile part? It might alleviate the capacity problems associated with it, but it would still fall short of the full capacity. (At least it's better than nothing.)
Quote from: Tarkus on May 26, 2011, 03:12:41 PM
Yes. It'll be one of 3 new networks in Version 2.0, along with the triple-tile TLA-7 and AVE-6.
-Alex
How will TuLEPS work for the NMAVE-4? From the pictures you showed, it looks very compact. Will one of the lanes be turned into a turning lane like for the ARD-3 to left turn piece? Or will it spread onto the next tile?
In the next version of NWM 2.0 new network appears AVE - 6 (god bless her) and I wondered whether it could be connected in a similar manner with OWR-3 as it makes it AVE-4 and OWR-2.
Bothers me, however, that the OWR-2 + OWR-2 = AVE-4 is obtained so that tile + tile = 2tiles while in the future we will have a situation where 1 +1 must = 3
Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on May 26, 2011, 05:00:56 PM
In the next version of NWM 2.0 new network appears AVE - 6 (god bless her) and I wondered whether it could be connected in a similar manner with OWR-3 as it makes it AVE-4 and OWR-2.
If you're talking about an AVE-6 to dual OWR-3 transition like the AVE-4 to dual OWR-2 transition, the problem is that you're going from three tiles to two, like with the RHW-6C to RHW-4 transition.
Even I thought about that once, but such transitions are still yet to be developed; They aren't even planned right now. I would foresee two transitions, though: The compact one (No 1-tile gap between OWRs) and the symmetrical one (Has the 1-tile gap).
Makes me wonder if there's also an AVE6-MAVE6 transition down the proverbial road... There'd be a lot of transitions to make...
Interesting problem eh?
This whole idea came upon me when I thought about EL - networks because then the parts of EOWR-3 could be built like the EAVE-6 (there will be no need for medians)
but as you said does not seem as simple as it is will be great conundrums in NWM 3.0 when you start planning it.
Can you guess what this is?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg845.imageshack.us%2Fimg845%2F5404%2Ftrltestpic.jpg&hash=cf68b1acfaf0a8bf9c3171cacee9a1f771085d21)
I feel like the NWM needed this accessory. No truck lots for the NWM, so that your NWM roads don't get clogged by trucks, just like BRF's set of traffic control lots. I also made two HOV lots for AVE-2 and OWR-1, but had no success with the OWR-1 HOVie. Never mind, I got it working; Forgot that the OWR direction flips when plopping these.
Also keep in mind that I'll also plan a set for the new NWM networks, once NWM v2 is out.
What do you think so far? Looks almost ready for release, but I want to see what you guys think first.It's now released on the <a href="http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/26285-traffic-restriction-lots-for-nwm/">
STEX</a>.
Hello, I was wondering if somebody can help me. I had install the MAVE-4&MAVE-6 No Grass in the NWM folder, but it's not working :'(. For me it's weird because I installed the Street Side MOD for MAVE-4 1 and does work for me. I'll appreciate anyones help.
I have a question regarding the NWM capacities. Referring to FAQ #17, then why is the OWR-1 the same capacity as the default OWR-2, and why are OWR-4 and OWR-5 the same capacities? Sorry if I sound critical; I don't mean to sound angry. If this question has already been answered, I apologize, and it'd be great if you could direct me there.
Quote from: skyscraperC3 on May 29, 2011, 02:04:50 PM
I have a question regarding the NWM capacities. Referring to FAQ #17, then why is the OWR-1 the same capacity as the default OWR-2, and why are OWR-4 and OWR-5 the same capacities? Sorry if I sound critical; I don't mean to sound angry. If this question has already been answered, I apologize, and it'd be great if you could direct me there.
I think I know the answer. The main problem is that Tarkus and NAM team did not participate in the construction of Sim Sity 4. Maybe if they were helped least EA and MAXIS this and many other illogical problems would not exist.
So the reason is that the game into account the capacity of the tile area and not counting lanes. As you put your question OWR -1 and OWR-2 are a tile and that capacity is the same. Similarly with OWR - 4 and 5 that are 2 tiles.
Just the game itself is an important area which is occupied on the map, therefore, even if we AVE-10 which is 3 tiles it will be more useful than AVE-6 if it takes three tiles.
Yes it is bad for everyone but Alex and others have shown that fathers excel Sim Sity and hope that it someday may come up with a solution.
Just out of Maxsi's were not sufficiently aware of what they do.
I hope I was helpful ....
Ivo
Quote from: skyscraperC3 on May 29, 2011, 02:04:50 PM
I have a question regarding the NWM capacities. Referring to FAQ #17, then why is the OWR-1 the same capacity as the default OWR-2, and why are OWR-4 and OWR-5 the same capacities? Sorry if I sound critical; I don't mean to sound angry. If this question has already been answered, I apologize, and it'd be great if you could direct me there.
There are limitations to the technique that allowed us to increase capacities on certain networks. Essentially, it involves exploiting a feature in the NAM Traffic Simulator, in which the first value of the Intersection & Turn Capacity Effect value is set to 125%. The capacity of any tile that the game considers an intersection gets multiplied by this value. I was able to ascertain what modifications were necessary to the path files to make a non-intersection tile be seen as an intersection and gain a capacity increase as a result.
The technique does not work in reverse, which is why the OWR-1 cannot be affected--there had been talk at one point of switching it from a OneWayRoad-based network to a Street-based network to provide a better functional justification for the network. If we applied it to the default OWR-2, it would then be indistinguishable from the OWR-3 capacity-wise.
With regards to the OWR-4 and 5, those two networks have a series of "crossover paths" to allow switching between the two tiles, allowing the full width of the network to be used. The crossover paths are already considered intersections by the traffic simulator. The intersection effect cannot be "doubled up", meaning the capacity-increasing trick would be useless in increasing the capacity of the OWR-5.
-Alex
@
skyscraperC3: There's no way to downgrade capacity on the OWR-1, which is why the proposal of an OWR-1 made from Street has been brought up time and time again. This is also why RHW-4 and MIS have the same capacity.
The reason OWR-4 and OWR-5 have the same capacity is because of how they're set up. First of all, they're essentially identical networks, but with different appearances. There's no way around this unless a different network is used for OWR-4, like in the case of OWR-1.
There is also no way to adjust the capacity of OWR-5, due to the crossover paths and DIP effect. The ARD-3, OWR-3, and MAVE-6 have higher capacities due to the DIPs (Distilled Intersection Paths), which trick the game into thinking that they're intersections, giving them a 25% capacity bonus. Note that intersections, as defined by the game, are any network tile whose paths touch three or four sides of the tile. Since the crossover paths of the OWR-4 and OWR-5 also do that, they also exhibit the DIP effect, which gives both of them the same 25% capacity bonus as with the ARD-3, OWR-3, and MAVE-6. You can't just add DIPs to the OWR-5, because they're already DIPped.
This also applies to the RHW-6C/8C/10C and RHW-8S/10S/12S.
And don't beat yourself about it; I had a similar question about adding DIPs to the diagonal two-tile networks.
Quote from: jondor on May 27, 2011, 12:33:11 AM
DIPs get around this by taking advantage of the intersection capacity settings of the traffic simulator. All intersection tiles (defined by the game as any tile with paths touching 3 or 4 edges) are 25% greater in capacity than non-intersection tiles.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on May 26, 2011, 04:07:07 PM
I was actually gonna ask about DIPing the two-tile networks, such as AVE-4. Has it been experimented on the diagonals, especially the shared-tile part? It might alleviate the capacity problems associated with it, but it would still fall short of the full capacity.
[/s] (You beat me to it again, Alex, but remember that it also applies to the RHW as well... :P )
@
Ivo: Ehh,... Wha...? What you're trying to say, I think, is that the game only counts capacity by tile, not by lane, which is a major drawback to making wider networks. Even if you crammed 3000 lanes into one tile, which is suicidal and silly, it'll still have the same capacity as a two-lane setup.
No, the cutoff is AVE-8. AVE-10 would have to be four tiles, and that would have to be made from OWR-5's unless ultra-wide NWMs are considered.
The only solution is based on what Alex once described: He considered making the AVE-8 made from OWR for the outer parts, and Road for the median. If only that could be applied for the OWRs, but the problem is that it'll be like RHW; There's no Tidal Flow (or whatever it is) to reverse the paths when you want to reverse them. Besides, making an RHW out of two different networks at once sounds farfetched right now... $%Grinno$%
@
Alex: I had a similar question once, and if anyone else asks about this, it's probably best to stick the explanation into the FAQ. Both FAQs.
Alex I want to ask if Version 2.0 of NWM did you decide priblemat with "crossover paths" of OWR -4 and 5 and the fact that vehicles are being turned against the direction of movement?
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on May 29, 2011, 02:41:49 PM
@Ivo: Ehh,... Wha...? What you're trying to say, I think, is that the game only counts capacity by tile, not by lane, which is a major drawback to making wider networks. Even if you crammed 3000 lanes into one tile, which is suicidal and silly, it'll still have the same capacity as a two-lane setup.
No, the cutoff is AVE-8. AVE-10 would have to be four tiles, and that would have to be made from OWR-5's unless ultra-wide NWMs are considered.
The only solution is based on what Alex once described: He considered making the AVE-8 made from OWR for the outer parts, and Road for the median. If only that could be applied for the OWRs, but the problem is that it'll be like RHW; There's no Tidal Flow (or whatever it is) to reverse the paths when you want to reverse them. Besides, making an RHW out of two different networks at once sounds farfetched right now...
I am proud that I managed to overtake a reply to you and even Lord Alex. I think that happens to me first. But what I said about the AVE-6 and AVE- 10 was just a hypothetical to explain more easily otherwise you yourself said that 1 million bands have a tile that does not matter to traffic.
About which you talk about AVE - 8 it will wait a long time but I think it would be very difficult to combine Road with OWR.
I can release it to you a little secret, because I already have path's for all current and future networks of NWM and imagine how it is based AVE - 8. And if I'm right there will be 2 types of textures like the RHW-6c with the middle part and two identical mirrored Outer plot.
Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on May 29, 2011, 02:27:54 PM
I think I know the answer. The main problem is that Tarkus and NAM team did not participate in the construction of Sim Sity 4. Maybe if they were helped least EA and MAXIS this and many other illogical problems would not exist.
So the reason is that the game into account the capacity of the tile area and not counting lanes. As you put your question OWR -1 and OWR-2 are a tile and that capacity is the same. Similarly with OWR - 4 and 5 that are 2 tiles.
Just the game itself is an important area which is occupied on the map, therefore, even if we AVE-10 which is 3 tiles it will be more useful than AVE-6 if it takes three tiles.
Yes it is bad for everyone but Alex and others have shown that fathers excel Sim Sity and hope that it someday may come up with a solution.
Just out of Maxsi's were not sufficiently aware of what they do.
I hope I was helpful ....
Ivo
Thank you for your answer. What you described is how it used to be with the tiles/lanes. Lanes did not matter, only tiles. Now, though, there is some type of pathfinding fix, which is described some in FAQ #17. Due to this, I don't know why other network capacities were not adjusted with this fix. That's what I'm wondering. I don't really care though, just wondering. Thanks for your quick reply!
Quote from: ivo_su on May 29, 2011, 02:43:33 PM
Alex I want to ask if Version 2.0 of NWM did you decide priblemat with "crossover paths" (???) of OWR -4 and 5 and the fact that vehicles are being turned against the direction of movement?
Ivo, I asked that issue to be added to the FAQ a long time ago... There's no way to fix that issue.
QuoteHow come cars on TLA-3/5 networks are making left turns and disappearing and cars on OWR-4/5 are going in circles in the middle of the road?
In the case of the TLA networks, that's how the paths are designed. For two-tile OWR networks, there are crossover paths, similar to those on RHW networks, which may result in cars doing donuts in the middle of two tile OWR networks. Due to some oddities with the default OWR network's "tidal flow system" (the system allowing simple drag conversions to flip the direction of an OWR), the crossover paths end up being bidirectional, and there appears to be no viable way to fix this at this time.
You can't remove the crossover paths either, because then the two-tile OWRs will cease to function properly. (They would be treated as two separate networks.)
QuoteAbout which you talk about AVE - 8 it will wait a long time but I think it would be very difficult to combine Road with OWR.
No, not really; You just simply draw a Road between two OWRs.
Quoteimagine how it is based AVE - 8. And if I'm right there will be 2 types of textures like the RHW-6c with the middle part and two identical mirrored Outer plot.
I can tell you that you're right about that; It's just two pieces, one of which is copied twice. Unless it's an asymmetrical network (then in that case, then it needs three different parts to it), every triple-tile network, NWM or RHW, works this way.
Quote from: skyscraperC3 on May 29, 2011, 03:16:30 PM
Thank you for your answer. What you described is how it used to be with the tiles/lanes. Lanes did not matter, only tiles. Now, though, there is some type of pathfinding fix, which is described some in FAQ #17. Due to this, I don't know why other network capacities were not adjusted with this fix. That's what I'm wondering. I don't really care though, just wondering. Thanks for your quick reply!
Actually, my reply above Ivo's (on this same page), should explain things in better detail. I've also written
FAQ #21 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg381221#post_Q21) to clarify things with the same information. Also in response to your question in the NAM Traffic Simulator thread regarding the relationship between Road and Avenue capacities relating to the NWM, I've added
FAQ #22 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg33176#post_Q22).
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on May 29, 2011, 03:20:57 PM
Ivo, I asked that issue to be added to the FAQ a long time ago... There's no way to fix that issue.
It's been there awhile, actually, as
FAQ #19 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg33176#post_Q19). :)
-Alex
Quote from: Opkl on May 26, 2011, 04:47:21 PM
How will TuLEPS work for the NMAVE-4? From the pictures you showed, it looks very compact. Will one of the lanes be turned into a turning lane like for the ARD-3 to left turn piece? Or will it spread onto the next tile?
Tarkus, I think you forgot my question. :P ^^^ (in quote)
@Opkl: I wouldn't expect NMAVE TuLEPs any time soon, but I am bringing it up on the TuLEPs thread, or at least in the process of doing so.
Hold on, are you asking for an NMAVE TuLEP setup where the NMAVE loses a lane and becomes an ARD-3?
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on May 29, 2011, 06:43:27 PM
@Opkl: I wouldn't expect NMAVE TuLEPs any time soon, but I am bringing it up on the TuLEPs thread, or at least in the process of doing so.
Hold on, are you asking for an NMAVE TuLEP setup where the NMAVE loses a lane and becomes an ARD-3?
No. I was just wondering what the plan for TULep's for this network were since its so compact.
Quote from: Opkl on May 29, 2011, 07:10:31 PM
No. I was just wondering what the plan for TULep's for this network were since its so compact.
Well, to be frank about it, none right now.
Quote from: Tarkus on May 29, 2011, 04:14:08 PM
Actually, my reply above Ivo's (on this same page), should explain things in better detail. I've also written FAQ #21 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg381221#post_Q21) to clarify things with the same information. Also in response to your question in the NAM Traffic Simulator thread regarding the relationship between Road and Avenue capacities relating to the NWM, I've added FAQ #22 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg33176#post_Q22).
It's been there awhile, actually, as FAQ #19 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg33176#post_Q19). :)
-Alex
wow, thank you! thank you for all of your great work!
(I didn't realize there were new posts before I responded the first time.)
thanks all of you helping with my question!
I just thought I'd mention that the NWM video tutorial you have listed is no longer available due to "copyright claims" &mmm so it can be removed.
I don't think it was specifically that video, but more like he/she had other videos up that infringed on copyrights.
Jack and Lego, I made the same remark many pages ago, and I asked if anyone knew if they could get ahold of that video. I haven't heard from Ryan about that; If he were successful, that video should be restored (and on Haljackey's channel). Otherwise, a new NWM video would have to be made...
Any takers? "$Deal"$
The dumbest thing is, I did an unrelated video with audioswap, and despite music being from YT's audioswap, guess what even that did!?
Anyway, I managed to find some NWM how-to's out there.
RHW and NWM in one, NWM is not up until 2:44 of the video
http://www.youtube.com/v/INEY6a4bmzQ&feature=fvwrel
This NWM tutorial is in another language, but the person put ten minutes into it, uploaded in HD, and they linked back to this website.
http://www.youtube.com/v/tBafKVX362M
Thanks, j-dub! :thumbsup: I've added that into the sticky post . . . with a note that it's in French, though you can still glean a lot from it visually.
-Alex
The second video I do not leave
writes that there are any copyright and can not be seen in this country
I guess it is very interesting. Too bad that I can see it.
Has there been any progress on the NWM going over the larger RHW's such as the RHW 8 or 10? Great work on everything guys and gals!
Hey, i am the creator of the second video, and i can add subtitles if you want :)
For the copyright, i can upload this video on dailymotion.
Quote from: kings_niners on May 31, 2011, 03:57:16 AM
Has there been any progress on the NWM going over the larger RHW's such as the RHW 8 or 10? Great work on everything guys and gals!
Right now, the NWM can't go over any networks, as there are no overpass pieces. I'm not sure yet whether or not there will be in the next release. There's been nothing done on that front so far, and it's been leaning toward the "no" side simply because of the sheer amount of stuff we have in the works already. We'll see, though. :)
Quote from: Uzil on May 31, 2011, 08:30:33 AM
Hey, i am the creator of the second video, and i can add subtitles if you want :)
For the copyright, i can upload this video on dailymotion.
Excellent--and thank you for the great video,
Uzil! :thumbsup:
-Alex
if my you tube video aren't start, this video can be see in any country :thumbsup: : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhpkqe_sim-city-4-tuto-nwm-hd_videogames
Thanks for the second link, I finally managed to watch this video and liked it. Congratulations to the creator.
Ivo
Quote from: Tarkus on May 31, 2011, 10:20:15 AM
Right now, the NWM can't go over any networks, as there are no overpass pieces. I'm not sure yet whether or not there will be in the next release. There's been nothing done on that front so far, and it's been leaning toward the "no" side simply because of the sheer amount of stuff we have in the works already. We'll see, though. :)
-Alex
Are you planning on making diagonal version of the NWM because real roads of this type are curved and go in different direction and not just straight
Yes, there will be diagonal versions of the two- and three-tile NWM networks. Only their diagonal intersection capabilities are limited.
Quote from: Uzil on May 31, 2011, 08:30:33 AM
Hey, i am the creator of the second video, and i can add subtitles if you want :)
For the copyright, i can upload this video on dailymotion.
this would be a great idea as i cant access any of the videos due to copyright
Yeah, so I just went to YouTube recently.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPBmx0RL7ts">(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg819.imageshack.us%2Fimg819%2F4065%2Fenisalive.jpg&hash=5db98ee1ed14f5b962d1a443fa113b3aeb115c4f)</a>
DISCLAIMER: It's actually someone who managed to preserve some of his videos.
Great find, Ganaram--thanks for sharing (and for the amusing caption)! :thumbsup: Hopefully this one will stay up.
(And congrats on graduating! :party:)
-Alex
I suggest someone DL the videos via that third party site while their up for backup purposes, and without red flagged music just to be safe.
"Red flagged" music would be anything owned by Vevo or WMG, so unless you use music from games or original music it isn't really possible
Vevo don't own nothing, they're just an online distribution platform that's not even available outside North America throwing their weight around much like Viacom does.
But at least they legally have the right to. If they launched worldwide now, they'd lose something like $69,120,000.00 a day. That's like $800 a second. Probably not that extreme, but you get the idea.
Alright, I think we've discussed YouTube copyright enough . . . ::) Let's get back on topic. :)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg827.imageshack.us%2Fimg827%2F9510%2Fnwm060520111.jpg&hash=a207d845bddb080d554c107acdbc81712e5fbc48)
Work on OxD intersections is progressing nicely.
-Alex
Super, it seems quite beautiful and most importantly it will be useful. Go on Alex, we are with you. Now I can not wait to get out the new NAM and everything else I count the seconds until their release.
Ivo
Nice.
Is there an ARD-3 Lanes Shift piece to change the direction of the middle lane? I have been looking through my tab rings to no avail.
I have a road that is so ready for AVE-6. Right now it's two OWR-2s with a grassy median, but soon...
At the moment, there is no ARD-3 lane shift piece. I don't normally see roads go straight from one direction for the central lane to the other. A solution would be to convert to from ARD-3 to AVE-2, then from AVE-2 to the other ARD-3.
The Dual Type A Transition that jondor did, which will be added to the TuLEPs Basic system as part of NAM Version 30, would fit the bill perfectly.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on June 08, 2011, 06:11:43 PM
The Dual Type A Transition that jondor did, which will be added to the TuLEPs Basic system as part of NAM Version 30, would fit the bill perfectly.
-Alex
In one direction anyway. It will allow 1 lane in each direction to divide into two, but it won't take care of the opposing situation where two lanes merge into one at the transition.
Quote from: Tarkus on June 08, 2011, 06:11:43 PM
The Dual Type A Transition that jondor did, which will be added to the TuLEPs Basic system as part of NAM Version 30, would fit the bill perfectly.
-Alex
Tarkus, in the next release will there be crosswalks for the TLA-5, and 7 intersections with streets? There is one for the MAVE-4, but not TLA-5.
Quote from: Opkl on June 08, 2011, 09:53:24 PM
Tarkus, in the next release will there be crosswalks for the TLA-5, and 7 intersections with streets? There is one for the MAVE-4, but not TLA-5.
Unlikely. MAVE-4s tend to be more "urban" than "suburban", so the crosswalks make sense there . . . they make less sense on a TLA-5 and even less on the TLA-7, where you'd really want a signalized intersection to cross a road that wide.
-Alex
Quote from: Tracker on June 08, 2011, 02:51:12 PM
Nice.
Is there an ARD-3 Lanes Shift piece to change the direction of the middle lane? I have been looking through my tab rings to no avail.
I have a road that is so ready for AVE-6. Right now it's two OWR-2s with a grassy median, but soon...
Oh believe me I have a few cities in my region who yearn for AVE-6 than 1 year but anyway to quieten it remained little more. I was forced to delay the development of my big cities and especially suburban and central parts. However, NAM 30 and NWM 2.0 will be immensely helpful especially after the introduction of diagonal networks NWM.
Ivo
Tarkus said this in the NWM thread at simtropolis, "Diagonal intersections: Likely for some single-tile networks, unlikely for dual-tile networks, and very unlikely for triple-tile networks." Does that mean like dual and triple tile networks wont have diagonal intersections for ver 3.0 or they will never exist at all ? %confuso ()what()
Quote from: TJ1 on June 12, 2011, 03:42:23 PM
Tarkus said this in the NWM thread at simtropolis, "Diagonal intersections: Likely for some single-tile networks, unlikely for dual-tile networks, and very unlikely for triple-tile networks." Does that mean like dual and triple tile networks wont have diagonal intersections for ver 3.0 or they will never exist at all ? %confuso ()what()
All those statements were made in regards to the next release, NWM Version 2.0. Dual and triple-tile networks will get diagonal intersections at some point in a future release, but probably not this next one.
-Alex
phew!!! Thanks Tarkus :thumbsup:
AVE-6 makes me salivate...
Hey guys, to alleviate any doubts:
The new YouTube user, "ErwinNegentigNo2," is not ErwinNegentig, merely someone who managed to save all his videos and descriptions on a private disk and reupload them. More information can be found at his channel. (http://www.youtube.com/user/erwinnegentigno2)
Thank you.
-Alex
Quote from: Exla357 on June 12, 2011, 07:23:16 PM
The new YouTube user, "ErwinNegentigNo2," is not ErwinNegentig, merely someone who managed to save all his videos and descriptions on a private disk and reupload them.
Didn't I point that out when I found that video? (Yeah, making the text small was probably ill-advised...)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on June 06, 2011, 11:15:35 PM
DISCLAIMER: It's actually someone who managed to preserve some of his videos.[/sub][/sub][/sub]
Well, not all of his videos; EN's original RHW video is not up... (And it's a good one, too; It showed how old and archaic RHW once was...) The "Why use the NAM" vid was something that I felt was four years outdated, though...
Quote from: TJ1 on June 12, 2011, 03:42:23 PM
Tarkus said this in the NWM thread at simtropolis, "Diagonal intersections: Likely for some single-tile networks, unlikely for dual-tile networks, and very unlikely for triple-tile networks." Does that mean like dual and triple tile networks wont have diagonal intersections for ver 3.0 or they will never exist at all ? %confuso ()what()
So let me to deposit some clarity about the NWM or at least try to do as far as I can. This is one of the last projects of the NAM and in particular Tarkus (Alex). However, this idea see the light of day for less than 10 months is pretty young to require a lot of it.
NWM is the beginning of a long road that needs to go but I'm sure that at some point there will be diagonal crossings, elevated networks and a huge variety of splitters and pieces.
As most of you are aware of the release of version 2.0 which will have 2 additional networks
- AVE - 6 (my dream)
- TLA - 7
and elevated EMAVE-4 moreover, it is clear that broad networks will have a diagonal function.
Whether will then go to version 3.0 or to something like 2.1 is not yet clear. From my conversations with Alex, however, know that one of the priorities is to gradually appear elevated networks, perhaps also gradually appear and diagonal crossings (first of two tiles networks, and then three tiles networks).
In version 3.0 will surely see
AVE-8
TLA-9
Alex is likely to design something like MAVE-8 and OWR-6. In the back pages this has been discussed and I think he took to heart the idea.
That's all I know about the project at present and its future. If anyone knows more let me add information.
I hope I was helpful.
Ivo
That's basically correct as far as the current plans go . . . except the new MAVE thing this time around is the single-tile Narrow MAVE-4 (NMAVE-4), not the Elevated MAVE-4.
-Alex
The error was mine then and thanks for the clarification.
If there is something new for future versions please share.
Ivo
Returned to SC4 after nearly one year of absence due to RL matters, and browsed through tons of posts ??? , but didn't find anything, so may I just ask: is there any developement for NWM bridges under way?
There's not really been any concerted effort toward NWM bridges. I wouldn't anticipate any as part of the next release cycle.
-Alex
@Rady:
As for the current NWM bridges, not that much work needs to go into them:
TLA 3/AVE 2: Just convert to road and use road bridge. (I doubt you'll need a turning lane over water ;))
TLA 5/MAVE 4/MAVE 6: Use avenue converter and avenue bridge (Either you give or take a median, or lose a lane, not too big of a deal)
OWR 1-5: Use OWR-2 or RHW-4 bridge. (You may want to use multiple adjacent bridges as not to lose capacity)
-Alex :thumbsup:
Quote from: Exla357 on June 15, 2011, 10:13:34 AM
TLA 3/AVE 2: Just convert to road and use road bridge. (I doubt you'll need a turning lane over water ;))
TLA 5/MAVE 4/MAVE 6: Use avenue converter and avenue bridge (Either you give or take a median, or lose a lane, not too big of a deal)
Several notes:
- The TLA bridge would be designed without turn paths, and is also compatible with AVE-2.
- There's also an in-game bridge that almost fits the criteria of being a MAVE-4 bridge. (It just needs a bit of model-tweeking...)
- OWR bridges 1 to 3 would be made using plain OWR. OWR bridges 4 and 5 would be made using Avenue. (I'd dip it, just in case...)
- Bridges for AVE-6/TLA-7 (and the yet-to-be-implemented AVE-8/TLA-9) would either have to use the zero-slope method or parallel OWR bridges. If using parallel OWR bridges, this would require new AVE to OWR pieces.
Other than the obvious need for a MAVE-6 and ARD-3 bridge and other OWR bridge widths, it should be noted that the purpose of having bridges for all other networks is purely for continuity.
This bridge is a very interesting topic and some things intrigued me. The idea to use the RHW-4 for bridge OWR made me wonder will there be tours for NWM to RHW. I think there are several very good splitter that would be beautiful and at the same time effective (MAVE-6 to RHW-6 or AVE-6/RHW-6, OWR-5 to RHW-10c, OWR-4 to RHW-8c)
Ivo
I have a question about AVE-6. I saw the screenshots a few pages back and at the intersection they were 3 lanes each way with one left-turning lane (so 7 lanes wide at the intersection).
Will there be more TuLEP options for these roads. Judging by the existing TuLEPS/NWM creations you can fit 3 lanes wide per tile; i.e. 6 lanes for AVE-4 with 4 lanes + 2 for turning lanes.
My question is are there plans to have 9 lane AVE-6 roads (6 straight lanes - 3 each way, 2 left turning lanes and 1 dedicated right turning lane which becomes a slip lane (the current slip lanes don't really add all that much capacity).
Thanks for the all the hard work, NAM is making this game immortal.
Quote from: Lach77 on June 20, 2011, 01:56:09 AM
My question is are there plans to have 9 lane AVE-6 roads (6 straight lanes - 3 each way, 2 left turning lanes and 1 dedicated right turning lane which becomes a slip lane (the current slip lanes don't really add all that much capacity).
That's something for the TuLEPs thread, and I even answered that question a long time ago with a proposed TuLEP nomenclature. That would be along the lines of a G-TuLEP, but if the extra right lane converts to slip lane first (I've been picturing a right lane to slip lane piece, but haven't got that far), then it goes back to B-TuLEP.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on May 29, 2011, 07:19:38 PM
I want to rearrange it, since Opkl brings up questions about an NMAVE TuLEP setup, and the "Lane-Reduction Right-Turn" and "Displaced Right Turn" setups feel like they need dedicated letters.
With that said, here's the entire order once again:
A - Single Left-Turn
B - Double Left-Turn
C - Displaced Right Turn (Ideal for a few OWR TuLEP setups)
D - Lane-Redux Right-Turn (Such as the MAVE-6 to MAVE-4 setup, or Opkl's example, that is, if I interpreted it correctly)
With the possible combinations:
E = (A+C)
F = (A+D)
G = (B+C)
H = (B+D)
None of which are being developed at the moment, though. Right now, the only AVE-6 TuLEPs being made are A and B.
Little note: Slip lanes DO help with capacity by allowing a direct route to turn right (or left, if you're LHD), so that traffic doesn't clog the intersection itself.
Just to get an idea: are there plans to add the missing (compared to "normal" Maxis roads / avenues) junction types for MAVE, ... Like a 90-degree-turn for the MAVE-4 (like the avenue 90-degree turn), or the MAVE-4 / ARD T-junction (see pic) ... and I suppose there are some more missing pieces, haven't tried all of them right now.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg683.imageshack.us%2Fimg683%2F2782%2Frhwproblem3.jpg&hash=f3871443d0f1e9ca156a55ddf2d6c6908493692a)
Quote from: Rady on June 23, 2011, 01:48:20 AM
Just to get an idea: are there plans to add the missing (compared to "normal" Maxis roads / avenues) junction types for MAVE, ... Like a 90-degree-turn for the MAVE-4 (like the avenue 90-degree turn), or the MAVE-4 / ARD T-junction (see pic) ... and I suppose there are some more missing pieces, haven't tried all of them right now.
Suffice to say, both the ones you've mentioned I'm pretty sure are in the current alpha build. I know I have textures for them. Quite a number of those will be filled in this next release.
-Alex
I have several cases where a TLA-5 end at a road or an AVE-4 end at an AVE-2 would be nice.
I just checked all three of those intersections out . . . seems I haven't gotten MAVE-4-ending-in-Single-Tile-NWM intersections in place yet (though MAVE-4-Ending-at-Road works), but the two Tracker mentioned are in place.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg23.imageshack.us%2Fimg23%2F1375%2Fnwm062320111.jpg&hash=0edd7f2a790b056516f221399a2e2cb5d176f2fe)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg828.imageshack.us%2Fimg828%2F8613%2Fnwm062320112.jpg&hash=8b33af5cda83007bde58cf4c80f42947601c2311)
-Alex
Many people have expressed a desire for RTMT stations for NWM. The RTMT Team has just started building these, but we could use a lot of help. If you're interested in helping us out in building these stations, please see this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=5632.msg385050#msg385050). Thanks! :)
Some time ago I did something you are talking about. I'll be glad if you use my ideas and textures that I made then. I've uploaded this on Simtropolis LOT but got angry because of his low rating and delete it. If you need any help you can count on me.
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=13027.0
Ivo
Some time after I made my NWM Traffic Restriction Lots, I thought of converting them into bus stops. I thought that instead of having to make 2x1 or 3x1 lots for multi-tile networks, it could just be a set of 1x1 modular lots.
Ivo-Su made a rather nice attempt with his bus stops (especially the OWR-4 and 5), but they took up a large footprint (I believe it was 3x2). However, they had the bus stop on just one side of the OWR, instead of a bus stop building on each side. It would be redundant to have a bus stop on both sides of an OWR when the bus door opens on only one side. One quirk, though: Unless something like Peg's SPOT is used, it would be hard to tell which way to plop the station.
Bringing back my TRLs, the idea of 1x1 modular lots could be a good idea for having asymmetrical bus stop setups (like I mentioned with the OWRs), and for networks such as TLA-5 or MAVE-4, it would work for having stops on just one side of the road, which does happen from time to time. (After all, the separate halves of MAVE-4, MAVE-6, and TLA-5 are more or less one-way roads, so it probably wouldn't matter if you placed a TE-lot on just one side.) Plus, if you want a stop/station on BOTH sides, just rotate and re-plop. (I'd still recommend full-width lots, though I made my TRLs so that an asymmetrical MAVE-5 setup can be permitted.)
This could especially prove useful for TLA-7, AVE-6, and when the time comes, TLA-9, AVE-8, and their asymmetrical counterparts. Instead of a whole bunch of TE-stops of varying widths, it could be just two (Well, technically 6 if you count subways and bus/sub): AVE-6 outer and AVE-8 outer. Plus, if the crossover paths on the TE-lot fail or are removed, it wouldn't really matter, because it's just a one-tile disconnection.
Technically, AVE-6 is just two networks: Two outer parts and the median. Same with the TLA-7, but the middle part is different. (So would that mean that an AVE-7 is actually THREE different networks?) Counting the AVE-8 and TLA-9, there are 6 possible combinations of the two middle parts and two different outer parts, times 3 (Sub, Bus, and Sub-Bus), making 18 3x1 lots needed (assuming that asymmetrical ones are being considered). Just making TE-lots for just the outer parts only narrows it down to 6.
I probably won't be able to help with the testing aspect, but I hope this gives some ideas. Not unless you already had the same idea, then I guess we both are thinking on the same page. :P
And Alex, it's Raymie, not Tracker. (He told me already.) "$Deal"$ (http://comments.deviantart.com/5/41628542/2056038607)
And Ivo, my TRLs have an 3.8 average rating, but I thought they weren't too bad... It was my first STEX upload anyway... (My first deviantART works were even worse...) I was wondering where your NWM stops went... ::)
I guess I don't understand why in the beginning, before Z was here, that the first Road Tops had the words blended with the texture, instead of using props. The only vanilla Maxis road texture made as a prop that I know of, is the flat blue handicap placard.
I guess its good to plan ahead for the wider tile networks before those see the light of day.
Quote from: Tarkus on June 23, 2011, 10:50:04 AM
Suffice to say, both the ones you've mentioned I'm pretty sure are in the current alpha build. I know I have textures for them. Quite a number of those will be filled in this next release.
-Alex
:thumbsup:
You make me happy!
May I ask, will there be like orthogonal and diagonal transitions for all the dual tile networks to the single tile networks vice versa?
Quote from: TJ1 on June 26, 2011, 04:54:44 PM
May I ask, will there be like orthogonal and diagonal transitions for all the dual tile networks to the single tile networks vice versa?
That is an eventual goal. However, NWM transitions, especially ones going between different tile widths, can be quite tricky to texture. I don't expect much on the orthogonal front for this release and can confirm there will be no diagonal ones yet.
-Alex
Quick question...will there be AVE-6 neighbor connector pieces?
Quote from: Tracker on June 26, 2011, 09:31:42 PM
Quick question...will there be AVE-6 neighbor connector pieces?
It's technically not needed (The middle part is two-directional, same with 6C), but that reduces the connection capacity to 33%, so it would make perfect sense to build a full-width NC piece. :)
Quote from: Tarkus on June 26, 2011, 07:06:13 PM
That is an eventual goal. However, NWM transitions, especially ones going between different tile widths, can be quite tricky to texture. I don't expect much on the orthogonal front for this release and can confirm there will be no diagonal ones yet.
-Alex
So there will be no TLA-7 to TLA-5 piece?
There is one Avenue 6 to regular avenue connection, but since that transition center is curvy due to the tile reduction, imagine creating the center turn lane texture for that shape is going to be more difficult.
Quote from: j-dub on June 26, 2011, 10:19:07 PM
There is one Avenue 6 to regular avenue connection, but since that transition center is curvy due to the tile reduction, imagine creating the center turn lane texture for that shape is going to be more difficult.
Oh. As long as we can have SOME kind of converter pieces for the 3 new networks to another network I am happy.
There is an AVE-4-to-6 transition and an AVE-6-to-TLA-7 transition, however . . . so you can theoretically go TLA-5-to-AVE-4/AVE-4-to-AVE-6/AVE-6-to-TLA-7.
The NMAVE-4 will have a transition to/from Road.
The main thing being focused on NWM-wise at the moment is trying to get all those diagonal intersections in place for the single-tile networks. After that, it'll be fixing up some things with certain T-intersections on the three new networks. After that, I'll probably sneak in some MAVE-to-Dual OWR transitions, and OWR-4-to-Dual-OWR-2--maybe some RHW/NWM transitions as Maarten's done a few textures there already. But that'll probably be it transition-wise for Version 2.
-Alex
Thank you for the information Alex. Things you mentioned sound really cool and I already begin to imagine them in my imagination. I also want to congratulate and Maarten aid that you provide for the development of translators and textures.
Only you please kindly is when you gotovis something to show us in a picture.
Glad you guys there.
- Ivo
Sounds nice!
Are there any plans for a MAVE4 -> road transition?
Quote from: j-dub on June 26, 2011, 10:19:07 PM
There is one Avenue 6 to regular avenue connection, but since that transition center is curvy due to the tile reduction, imagine creating the center turn lane texture for that shape is going to be more difficult.
Yeah. Plop down an AVE-4 to AVE-2 transition and see how the center strip is curvy. Now imagine trying to make that a turn lane.
anybody ever see this picture?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstoreimages.impulsedriven.com%2Fproduct_gfx%2Fsimcity4_ss4.jpg&hash=340295ba7359dcc127bd910d47287130ef5f0ed2)
Was in the screenshots for SimCity 4 Deluxe addition here: http://www.impulsedriven.com/simcity4
Sure looks like an elevated MAVE4 there with an onslope transition to AVE4? Never seen a train wreck disaster either.
The closest in-game equivalent to that is just an AVE-4 bridge; I know that at least one of the original bridges for AVE-4 has its median close up on both ends of the bridge like shown. Looking at those supports, that's probably what they meant to show.
That image is extremely photoshopped. :P I also think that was the bridge
GDO29Anagram was referring to when he said:
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on June 15, 2011, 10:30:42 AM
...
- There's also an in-game bridge that almost fits the criteria of being a MAVE-4 bridge. (It just needs a bit of model-tweeking...)
...
Either way, progress is happening here, and I like what I'm seeing. Great job everyone! &apls
Quote from: Nego on June 27, 2011, 06:06:03 PM
That image is extremely photoshopped.
WRONG!!! That was a promo by EA themselves, and that ain't even the bridge I was talking about... $%Grinno$% $%Grinno$% $%Grinno$%
This is:
Quote from: j-dub on January 26, 2011, 07:53:20 PM
There is nothing secret about this picture and nothing new,
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.tinypic.com%2F2u6mxle.jpg&hash=35da2d0f04e4adf51f02c03887b934a32b727702)
This particullar bridge, you may have even built before NWM came out. In this situation, maybe its a sign of hope, because this is a Maxis bridge, and it almost allowed me to attach the road to it. I guess it could of been a fluke with the landscape that the avenue did not come out, but when I had dragged the bridge across, it allowed me to back up, and not extend the avenue out of it, that I was tempted to touch the Mave to it. If such a bridge was duplicated so the existing avenue bridge is untouched, the duplication would just need the ends of that center triangle cut off to match the Mave 4.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on June 27, 2011, 09:35:48 PM
Quote from: Nego on June 27, 2011, 06:06:03 PM
That image is extremely photoshopped.
WRONG!!! That was a promo by EA themselves
What Nego means is that EA photoshopped the image; just look at some of the parts of it: to point out a few, the avenue has dashed white lines and then solid yellow lines on one half of it for a small part of it, and the rail line is flat next to a bumpy road, plus the street intersection that doesn't actually have any connecting roads.
While SC4D was down I posted about a minor cosmetic error in the TLA-3 across MIS textures:
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/43008-nwm-network-widening-mod-development-and-support/page__pid__1169622#entry1169622
@GDO29Anagram: What Moonraker0 said is what I meant when I said that the image looked photoshopped. I already knew that it was a promo image by EA. Also, when I said that I thought that was the bridge you were referring to, I wasn't 100% sure. It was just a guess.
Quote from: Tracker on July 04, 2011, 11:46:18 AM
While SC4D was down I posted about a minor cosmetic error in the TLA-3 across MIS textures:
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/43008-nwm-network-widening-mod-development-and-support/page__pid__1169622#entry1169622
Thanks, Raymie! Should be an easy fix to take care of, fortunately. :)
We're still slowly progressing forward. The NWM's a bit farther off right now than the other plugins scheduled for the next release cycle (RHW 5.0 and NAM 30). There's still quite a few intersections I'm in the process of putting together, and I haven't yet figured out solutions to a couple of lingering issues folks have reported with the existing version (the MAVE-6 weird arrows, which were not entirely solved with the patch I released, and the infamous texture artifacting some users saw on wealthified transition pieces).
-Alex
That said, I know I wouldn't mind a rough beta either to tide me over...SC4's getting boring, I have one month of summer left, and I really want some new stuff.
Knocking out some more intersections . . . slowly but surely. Triple-tile networks can now end at dual-tile networks.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F8241%2Fnwm070720111.jpg&hash=27d1309ecd2619f771e7b19050607fbdf3cc75c7)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg691.imageshack.us%2Fimg691%2F426%2Fnwm070720112.jpg&hash=49ecbd9a378f59adde1560a4f9ad76cb476127ec)
-Alex
Great to have done Alex and I'm definitely pleased with what he saw. Please only if you do not embarrass to show similar T-junction with the AVE-6 and OWR-4.
Ivo
@Tarkus:Great work Tarkus! I have two questions for you: Will there be any transition between AVE-6 and OWR-3/MAVE-6? There could be an empty median (1 tile in width) between each OWR/MAVE Strip. To solve the issue of diagonal OWR not having neighbor connections, could the MAVE network be used like it already is for orthogonal instances?
With regards to the previous post: What's a MAV?
I do like the idea of a transition between AVE-6 and OWR-3, though as far as I know, they aren't included in the next NWM version. Perhaps for a future version?
BTW, Tarkus, the tables in the first post are currently a bit messed up, could you please clean them up a bit? Thank you! :thumbsup:
Regards,
Korot
Quote from: Korot on July 07, 2011, 12:05:37 PM
With regards to the previous post: What's a MAV?
I do like the idea of a transition between AVE-6 and OWR-3, though as far as I know, they aren't included in the next NWM version. Perhaps for a future version?
BTW, Tarkus, the tables in the first post are currently a bit messed up, could you please clean them up a bit? Thank you! :thumbsup:
Regards,
Korot
I think that the MAV is short Maxis Avenue. I hope I was helpful for you.
Quote from: freshballin365 on July 07, 2011, 12:01:53 PM
@Tarkus:Great work Tarkus! I have two questions for you: Will there be any transition between AVE-6 and OWR-3/MAV-6? There could be an empty median (1 tile in width) between each OWR/MAV Strip. To solve the issue of diagonal OWR not having neighbor connections, could the MAV network be used like it already is for orthogonal instances?
Thanks! The only transition to/from the AVE-6 will be an AVE-4-to-6 transition. There will also be a MAVE-6-to-Dual-OWR-3 transition, but no AVE-6-to-MAVE-6 or AVE-6-to-Dual-OWR-3. Transitions are not easy to put together texture-wise and can take a fair bit of time. I'll probably be looking at adding more in a smaller release sometime after NWM 2.0. As far as OWR neighbor connections go, they'll probably be getting an RHW-style treatment at some point, though not in 2.0.
Quote from: Korot on July 07, 2011, 12:05:37 PM
With regards to the previous post: What's a MAV?
I'd imagine he meant MAVE.
Quote from: Korot on July 07, 2011, 12:05:37 PM
BTW, Tarkus, the tables in the first post are currently a bit messed up, could you please clean them up a bit? Thank you!
I would, but unfortunately, I can't. The table functionality is enabled by a forum plugin which hasn't yet been installed on the new forum--you'll notice tables in other threads on the site are in a similar state right now.
-Alex
You make me envious of that TLA-7 and AVE-6...
Since I am thinking about this for as long as I know that the TLA7 will be a 3-wide network for it made me curious:
is the difference in size between ingame and real TLA5/7 for cosmetical purposes?
I used to live pretty much at the corner of a N-S running TLA7 and a E-W running TLA5, with the TLA7 right out the driveway standing at an exact 32m (=2 tiles) incl sidewalks pretty much all along the road (give or take a meter here and there), while the TLA5 is accordingly smaller...
There's one main problem with 'real scale' networks.
They're too small.
Both Maxis and custom automata will smack/pass into/through each other as the lanes are narrower than the average car width.
Not to mention that it will look incredibly cramped compared to other networks (Most noticeably everything except Maxis Highway).
QuoteSpeaking of the release front, things are moving forward. As far as the full complement of what we're releasing this go-around, the NWM is being the "spoilsport" right now, and I may end up postponing some of its currently in-progress functionality until an NWM 2.x release, so there's less stuff to worry about and we can ensure a stable release sooner rather than later. Additionally, unless something's already in the midst of development, I wouldn't anticipate any new requested functionality to make it into this release cycle.
Which features would be delayed? Hopefully not the diagonals, NMAVE or triple-tiles.
Like jdenm8 mentioned the whole scale of automata and lane-width is off a bit in the game (the scale of everything else is off a bit too I'd say). But that doesn't really matter as long as it's all relatively equally off scale. I do hope that eventually the 3-tile networks are shrunk slightly though, with lane-widths equal to the new RHW v5 textures, though I'm sure that's nothing likely to happen anytime in the near future.
Quote from: Tracker on July 09, 2011, 01:03:51 PM
Which features would be delayed? Hopefully not the diagonals, NMAVE or triple-tiles.
The triple-tiles are definitely staying in, as is the NMAVE and the diagonal functionality for dual and triple-tiles. If anything gets cut, it'll probably be in the realm of diagonal intersections for the single-tile networks. The NMAVE might also not get wide-radius curves quite yet. I've made considerable progress on the intersections in the past couple days (and some of the notoriously tricky ARD-3 ones ended up going far smoother than I expected), but still, I'm hedging my bets.
I'm also looking at a "2.x series" release plan that would be similar to the 4.x (and now 5.x) plan that has been discussed with the RHW. I haven't quite come up with any sort of preliminary "benchmark" for when we'd transition to 3.0, however.
And to follow up on the tables as
Korot mentioned, they're back to normal. The Tabular mod has been reinstalled on the forum.
-Alex
Tarkus, you know that not every intersection has to be made. That can always be saved for 2.0.1 or 2.1 — get that stuff out now! :angrymore:
(You're appreciated...but I'm starting to grow impatient for all this stuff.)
EDIT:
Haida County's test of NWM single tiles at MIS intersections came back...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg20.imageshack.us%2Fimg20%2F1232%2Foakridgemar600131028542.png&hash=ba015196db170a02c98793604eb5616bf46c21b2)
The TLA-3, AVE-2, and both ARD-3 intersections require the same rotation treatment.
Quote from: Tracker on July 09, 2011, 08:54:37 PM
Tarkus, you know that not every intersection has to be made. That can always be saved for 2.0.1 or 2.1 — get that stuff out now! :angrymore:
(You're appreciated...but I'm starting to grow impatient for all this stuff.)
I had on several occasions included the diagonal intersections for the single-tile networks as an item on the feature list, so I'd at least like to have
something on that front. I won't be T21ing them at this juncture, however, and the ones between two NWM networks are on the chopping block for this release.
Quote from: Tracker on July 09, 2011, 08:54:37 PM
Haida County's test of NWM single tiles at MIS intersections came back...
The TLA-3, AVE-2, and both ARD-3 intersections require the same rotation treatment.
Looking over the current build, actually, it seems I completely redid the MIS intersection textures to go along with the V5-Spec project. No rotation/flipping needed. ;)
-Alex
Forthcoming release of the NAM 30 and I wondered what would happen to the topics in the forum relating to TuLEP's, NWM and RHW. Will they be expiry and start on page 1 or to continue the example from page 430 to discuss the next versions.
Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on July 10, 2011, 06:22:13 AM
Forthcoming release of the NAM 30 and I wondered what would happen to the topics in the forum relating to TuLEP's, NWM and RHW. Will they be expiry and start on page 1 or to continue the example from page 430 to discuss the next versions.
Ivo
We'll still keep the topics, as always, so... no worries there.
These topics don't always need to be cleaned up, though it is up to the moderators in the end.
speaking of diagonal, will there be a fix for diagonal railways crossing a normal NWM? I'm not quite sure about the others, but the TLA5 turns into 2 parallel maxis roads for the length of a diagonal rail crossing it, messing not just with the visuals, but also with the paths
Quote from: GMT on July 11, 2011, 04:37:11 AMdiagonal railways crossing a normal NWM? I'm not quite sure about the others, but the TLA5 turns into 2 parallel maxis roads for the length of a diagonal rail crossing it, messing not just with the visuals, but also with the paths
That would be because there's no compatibility for that in the current public version. (Hence the "Limited Diagonal Functionality" words being used in the readme)
It's just like the non-existent RHW-6C to AVE-6 transition. As it hasn't been implemented, it reverts to three Road to RHW-2 transitions, though it will still carry traffic like normal.
I can look in the current dev version and check to see if compatibility for that has been added.
Support for diagonal Rail crossing orthogonal single-tile NWM networks exists in the current development build (TLA-3, AVE-2, ARD-3, OWR-3, NMAVE-4--OWR-1 still needs textures).
TLA-5 is a dual-tile network, however, and we will not be adding any diagonal intersection support to the dual-tile networks until a later release.
-Alex
Browsing the forums and posts written in the past and I noticed that there was a poll in which everyone is given an estimate when it will be released next NAM. I wonder if you can do this play now.
- Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on July 11, 2011, 09:16:46 AM
Browsing the forums and posts written in the past and I noticed that there was a poll in which everyone is given an estimate when it will be released next NAM. I wonder if you can do this play now.
- Ivo
Did that with the RHW thread before the 3.0 release . . . but it's unlikely I'll do that again. It ended up being a big disaster and just made people uncontrollably antsy for the release--we actually had to close down the development thread for about 3 days for it to cool off.
-Alex
However you decide whether you do it again or not. Is not so important, I just thought tshe shte is a fun game, but on the other hand you're right, it would be crazy and other things found during out of control.
-Ivo
Much as I did in the RHW thread recently, I'd like to report on how networks built with NWM 1.x releases will function with NWM 2.0, as well as give a little bit of information regarding the current state of development (of course, still no release date/timeline for release, as per standard procedure).
Existing networks built with NWM 1.x should continue to function virtually identically with NWM 2.0, and we are not anticipating the need for a Legacy Support file.
That said, because of the "wealth-glitching" issue on some of the wealth-enabled transition puzzle pieces, I am looking at separating the wealth textures from the mod itself and offering them as an option instead, which those with incompatible graphics cards/settings can simply omit from their installation.
Regarding the still lingering issues with the "Cascading Commute Arrow" on the MAVE-6, which some users are still reporting with the patch, so far, we don't have a confirmed, acceptable solution (it has also recently been reported on the Avenue Type B TuLEPs). I also can't replicate the issue after my initial patch, so I am unable to test it. I have attached another patch attempt below, which affects both the MAVE-6 and Avenue Type B TuLEPs--give it a spin and let me know if it does the trick. If not, I'll continue tinkering with it and offering attempts, and the issue may still be present in NWM 2.0.
The NWM is currently in its 6th developmental build--one behind the RHW. As I mentioned on the RHW thread, typically, projects of this type take about a dozen before we release. The main holdup right now is finishing up the diagonal single-tile intersection functionality, which will be scaled back. I will have more details on just how scaled back it will be when we get a bit closer.
Thank you all for your support and patience during this process--it is greatly appreciated!
-Alex
No, thank you!!! :)
Do not worry Alex for our patience. We will wait as long as necessary, you just do your work in peace, as well as you always did. And if someone is too eager, I personally will spanking ;D ;D ;D.
- Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on July 14, 2011, 05:39:56 AM
Do not worry Alex for our patience. We will wait as long as necessary, you just do your work in peace, as well as you always did. And if someone is too eager, I personally will be spanking ;D ;D ;D.
- Ivo
lol :D
Has anyone else noticed the pathing problem on the OWR-5? The middle lane seems to have the paths in both ways, which makes it in to a continuous crash in my case. =S
Quote from: strucka on July 15, 2011, 12:42:12 AM
Has anyone else noticed the pathing problem on the OWR-5? The middle lane seems to have the paths in both ways, which makes it in to a continuous crash in my case. =S
Yes I noticed this problem, but as far as I know from Tarkus (Alex), this bug is due to cross paths over, without which is no way to be efficient network. Unfortunately not yet found a method to clean up this problem, and in the future is not expected to have development in this direction. Just to supplement that awaits you at OWR-4. I hope I was helpful.
- Ivo
Well it took a long time but I finally got the original Network Widening Mod tutorial back on Youtube, courtesy of Erwin Negentig and Epic Music Productions. Feel free to re-attach it to the stick post.
http://www.youtube.com/v/L1MXHlL1A_Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1MXHlL1A_Y
By the way, what happened to the sticky posts? Haven't seen them since the forum upgrade. ::)
I don't know what you went through exactly to get that back Haljackey, but you done well for the community.
Thanks for your efforts in ensuring that Erwin's NWM tutorial will remain available, Haljackey--it is greatly appreciated! :thumbsup: +1 k-point coming your way shortly. Sticky posts are the result of a forum mod--it hasn't been reinstalled on the new forums yet.
Thought I'd give an update here on the NWM and the "scaling back" I previously mentioned. The single-tile diagonal intersection progress, while it has been going well, has just been a tremendously massive undertaking because of just how many freaking intersection combinations there are. We're literally talking about hundreds of intersections--about 60-80 per network with 6 networks (TLA-3, AVE-2, ARD-3, OWR-1, OWR-3, NMAVE-4), so 360-480 intersections total. The work's not difficult, just time-consuming--time-consuming enough that if I were to go through and complete it, it'd push the release back quite a bit farther yet.
I know folks are anxious for a release--even us NAMites are--and the other components in progress right now are much farther along. So here's what I'm planning to do: stop work on further diagonal intersections for now, offer what I have done on that front "as-is" as an "unsupported" feature (much like the Inside DRIs in the RHW), and finish up some of the less-exhaustive NWM features in progress and release a still fairly substantial NWM 2.0 update. There won't be much rhyme or reason as to which diagonal intersections are covered or not covered--it'll mostly be what I managed to get done so far, though fairly universally, OWR-1 intersections, DxD intersections, diagonal T intersections, and stuff involving other NWM networks and RHW networks other than the RHW-2 are not covered.
And we'll still have the two initial triple-tilers, the NMAVE-4, some other new intersection combos, and a heretofore-yet-unannounced "secret weapon" that will greatly ease the construction of NWM networks. The remainder of the diagonal intersection work will be a running "work-in-progress", that will be incrementally expanded with smaller NWM updates going forward.
-Alex
A secret weapon...will it be revealed in a video like the RHW ones?
That said, what are some of the other in-progress features?
So, I'm known for NWM secret weapon when asked whether there would be something like this. I have to say that I first spoke to a secret weapon in NWM because until now these were only available for RHW.
Sorry I know that as a problem to diagonal intersections and that they will be delayed. But despite my great sadness about the problems NWM 2.0 remains the consolation that the coming new edition of the NAM. I do not know whether nchkoy else agrees with me but I always thought it was better to have smaller releases but are more frequently than they have mega releases of the interval over 12 months. However, I would not have anything to the contrary is a monthly supplement for example a secret weapon than to wait one year for 4-5 stuff. This is my personal opinion and do not want to engage with anyone, but think about that performance by informal but regular releases would have been greater, and there will be so eagerly by consumers.
Regards,
- Ivo
The problem with 'smaller releases' is that with this, we're trying to implement something that sounds small (Diagonal Intersections, three new networks) but just isn't. There's a lot of man hours involved in this in probably the most difficult RULs (TMK only Tarkus and BlueLightning can edit it confidently, poor commenting doesn't exactly help).
I've been trying to get into RUL2 editing so I'd be able to help a bit and speed it up, but it's a long process and a bit hard to learn.
On top of that, we're adding three new networks (I'm not saying completely new as they have been around for a while) with turning ability (And these dual and triple tilers are hard to figure out, it's just like RHW-6C and 8C diagonals), there's a lot of work there.
Something like this just cannot be added in a smaller release.
Besides, we've still got another month until it's been 12 months since the last release (And it took twelve months for the last vX.0 release cycle).
Don't worry though, we've got some really cool stuff and it'll be well worth the wait.
I've tried not to get too impatient or anxious about this release, because I know that it requires a lot of work to produce superior content such as the NAM and NWM. Feel free to take as much time as you need, Alex and the rest of the NAM team. I'm aware that time taken has a direct relationship with quality, as well as quantity. Of course, I will appreciate the smaller releases when they come. :)
Quote from: jdenm8 on July 19, 2011, 06:10:57 PM
The problem with 'smaller releases' is that with this, we're trying to implement something that sounds small (Diagonal Intersections, three new networks) but just isn't. There's a lot of man hours involved in this in probably the most difficult RULs (TMK only Tarkus and BlueLightning can edit it confidently, poor commenting doesn't exactly help).
I am sure that the Shadow Assassin Maarten and are also able to edit RUL2 when talking about small releases did not mean whole network though diagonal because it is not so small amount of work. Misamta I focused more on puzzle pieces, which are inherent in TuLEP's and RHW than of NWM. I think very well may be offered by any other splitter or intersection of consumers each month as a supplement instead of waiting a whole year for the design of a large package of innovations.
Yes I know I have not yet passed the 12 months of release polsednoto but let's not kid ourselves. We all know that before the middle of August is unlikely to be prepared all drafts of NAM.
- Ivo
I can certainly understand the logic and attractiveness of more frequent, smaller releases. However, I suspect that smaller releases would still require a lot of time and testing after development and before distribution to iron out bugs and create a polished finished product (avoiding a plethora of user complaints very possibly from some of the people rushing release), while larger releases allow a greater percentage of time to be spent on creativity and development as opposed to "polishing". In a way it's a blessing. Many people hoped release wouldn't take this long but I don't think anybody suspected that the release would include this much new content.
Quote from: noahclem on July 20, 2011, 02:54:40 PM
I can certainly understand the logic and attractiveness of more frequent, smaller releases. However, I suspect that smaller releases would still require a lot of time and testing after development ....
Many would easily attract a large team of users willing to test and report errors. However, there is hardly a normal person who refuses to work for the NAM as it is to refuse to work at NASA in real life. Helping the NAM is a privilege and pride not just duty.
- Ivo
Hey Ivo, you got time for a short story? It involves only an idea of the NWM getting released an earlier date, but a lot smaller. There was almost a time that the first NWM could of came out sooner, but without the TLA-5. Now, because this was the first NWM, I was not too big of a fan of that idea, I felt that would of caused some :( Luckily for everyone else, it later premiered with that, and the other double tile networks. Because of this, I am positive you would not want to see the next NWM without certain known stuff you were waiting for.
Its not like people refuse to work for NAM, but there are people I am positive you have not met from the NAM inner workings previously that got stuck dealing with real life and real time. Not to get off topic, but because you mentioned NASA, well I hate to tell you America's funding kind of has been toned down on NASA's space research and development work.
Personally, a large part of me would like to go to a smaller release paradigm as it would mean less of these long-term, high-pressure release cycles. However, the way our development processes usually go and the way controller files work, it can be rather chaotic even with a drawn out cycle. We've had the option of doing asynchronous updates of NAM plugins without updating the NAM Core for awhile now, with the NAM Essentials package. But we've never really taken advantage of it, in large part because our development processes have often involved simultaneous changes to the NAM Core, and the logistical difficulties of doing it otherwise. NAM release engineering procedures have also been glacial to change, though there have been many efforts over the years.
We have no shortage of folks wanting to play around with pre-release stuff. That's why we have a rather selective (and secretive $%#Ninj2) process of picking NAM Associates, with no public trace of our recruitment process whatsoever. It's worked pretty well for us, and I think we've got a really solid group right now. But having adequate testers isn't really the issue--it's having enough developmental types with enough time and skill to fix the issues the testers report, while also pushing further developmentally. We could probably stand to have a RUL-literate "release engineer" who does controller compilation and nothing else.
Quote from: ivo_su on July 20, 2011, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: jdenm8 on July 19, 2011, 06:10:57 PM
(TMK only Tarkus and BlueLightning can edit it confidently, poor commenting doesn't exactly help).
I am sure that the Shadow Assassin Maarten and are also able to edit RUL2 when talking about small releases did not mean whole network though diagonal because it is not so small amount of work.
Of the current NAM Team developers,
Blue Lightning and I are definitely the most comfortable with it. The other Maarten (
mtg) has some proficiency with it, as do
jondor and SA. There are a few others who have played around with it, but not with any regularity, and many of them are more comfortable doing puzzle pieces, and focus their attention there.
mrtnrln is one of our most prolific puzzle piece makers and does a fair bit with T21s, but doesn't really work with RUL2. Back in the day,
jplumbley,
memo and
Jonathan were absolute geniuses with RUL2, but none of them are really actively modding right now (albeit
memo did briefly return to activity, and something new from him will be out this release cycle).
Personally, I actually enjoy RUL2 stuff a lot, more than making puzzle pieces these days, and it's not uncommon for me to crank out a thousand lines of code in a night. That's the one thing I like about working on the NWM--on the implementation side, it's heavily RUL2-based (and will be increasingly headed that way, as you'll soon see). But that's been only part of what I've needed to do on the project.
-Alex
What does RUL2 entail BTW? What types of transit functionality does it enable?
Thank j-dub and Tarkus for detailed information with which they flooded me. I am really happy when I understand more about how things in the kitchen of the NAM.
Unfortunately I'm relatively new to this forum and I have the honor to know the older members of the NAM but the absence of Jonathan is a huge loss for us all. I always thought it was just impossible for man to do all the work on the NWM. Because I think that this project is quite large in size and potential for future development. I dare say even that is much more complex and larger than RHW. While RHW participate in almost all of NAM they both project to the NWM in the vast majority of the work rests on the shoulders of Alex. In this line of thought, I really am sorry that Alex so much work about the making of codes RUL2 is left only to you. I know that the NAM team is one of the largest members count and pray in the future there will be more capable to handle not only RUL2 but also be actively involved in the development of NWM.
Clock to NASA's budget - I gave it only as an example to demonstrate how it is prestigious to work for the NAM. I hope that soon the U.S. government will direct more funds in this direction but do not forget that the world lives in times of severe global financial crisis.
Best,
- Ivo
-
Quote from: Tracker on July 20, 2011, 10:04:13 PM
What does RUL2 entail BTW? What types of transit functionality does it enable?
RUL2 deals with overrides of dragged network tiles (X next to Y becomes X next to Z, etc) Each draggable override network requires thousands of lines of override code in order to function properly. There is an excellent tutorial which also explains the concept here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2500.0).
Quote from: ivo_su on July 20, 2011, 11:31:50 PM
Thank j-dub and Tarkus for detailed information with which they flooded me. I am really happy when I understand more about how things in the kitchen of the NAM.
Unfortunately I'm relatively new to this forum and I have the honor to know the older members of the NAM but the absence of Jonathan is a huge loss for us all. I always thought it was just impossible for man to do all the work on the NWM. Because I think that this project is quite large in size and potential for future development. I dare say even that is much more complex and larger than RHW. While RHW participate in almost all of NAM they both project to the NWM in the vast majority of the work rests on the shoulders of Alex. In this line of thought, I really am sorry that Alex so much work about the making of codes RUL2 is left only to you. I know that the NAM team is one of the largest members count and pray in the future there will be more capable to handle not only RUL2 but also be actively involved in the development of NWM.
Clock to NASA's budget - I gave it only as an example to demonstrate how it is prestigious to work for the NAM. I hope that soon the U.S. government will direct more funds in this direction but do not forget that the world lives in times of severe global financial crisis.
Best,
- Ivo
-
I'm certainly not as adept at it as Alex is, but now that I have the flips and rotations figured out, I'm getting a lot better at it. In fact, to help support my railroad crossing props project, I added some stability code to the existing SAMxSTR intersections, so they will at least function in most basic circumstances, they don't have a lot of the more complex code yet that lets them work in every conceivable situation, but they will at least work on straight stretches of street and next to streetxstreet intersections and rail curves.
I should add, the version of RUL2 in the current developmental NAM Controller build (r111) contains a little over 200,000 lines of code (including comments). Exported as a .txt file, it weighs in over 10MB.
Generally, each "override network" involves at least 2000 lines of RUL2 code. With a fully fleshed-out feature list and proper stability, it would be conceivable that they could run in the range of 10000-20000 lines of code per network. FLEXFly runs about 9000 right now.
-Alex
Hey jondor I noticed long ago that you do a railroad crossing props project and I am very pleased with your work at the moment. Hopefully there are plenty of active members to engage with the support of NWM because there is much to be desired field. I am sure that it is particularly difficult to make several puzzle pieces that are included from overpasses Avenue, road and OWR and why not for railroad. However RHW has such support while NWM serious difficulties when it comes to cross from any other network. Please be a little more as you begin to deal with such things because if you leave it only Alex will take decades to deal with everything.
- Ivo
I think it's important to thank each and every single member of the NAM Team for his/her hard work, dedication, and commitment in revolutionizing Sim City 4, whether they are still on board or MIA. I truly commend the patience and attentiveness you all have shown us (users of the NAM, RHW, NWM, SAM) in listening to our requests, questions, thoughts, etc. It's truly amazing that there is team of individuals who are so purposeful and engaged into successfully transforming and supplementing the once bland, abject transportation network of the stock Sim City 4. I have wanted to contribute to these large scale projects but I, unfortunately, do not have time to do so and I lack the persistence NAM Team member have :D. Anyways, back to point: RULing & Puzzle Pieces seem hard, and I don't blame anyone if they only have a facility with one of those items. NAM Team people are as human as we are so we must remember that they are only trying unto the best of their abilities(I might question their humanity with all the meticulous work they do :D). But above all, they experience real time and real life as we NAM, RHW, NWM, etc. users do. It would be hard for me to imagine Tarkus (Alex) being the sole contributor on the RUL front. Wouldn't one go insane if all that rested upon himself? I feel that it's a cohesive effort between all the NAMites (Did I use that right ???) to make everything happen on all fronts. So, again a lot of thanks and gratitude to everyone on the NAM Team :thumbsup:. And yes, I am anxious to get my hands on NWM & RHW, but completeness of a project is worthwhile as well. It should be up to the NAMites to decide! Good Luck & All the Best to the NAM Team.
- Chris
Quote from: Tarkus on July 21, 2011, 12:31:18 AM
I should add, the version of RUL2 in the current developmental NAM Controller build (r111) contains a little over 200,000 lines of code (including comments).
[snip]
FLEXFly runs about 9000 right now.
-Alex
I'd like to update that, as of right now RUL2 is 201,367 lines long and FLEXFly is 10,856. :P
(Although, it doesn't help that for some FLEXFly pieces, there are 4 lines of main code + 136 lines of stability code + comments. Per position/per network + mirrored pieces. I'm not saying what piece this is, though ;))
Good grief, the Lord is really huge in size and volume information. I deeply regret that all this falls to only 2 people and is now beginning to understand why the process takes so long to develop. I pray all the gods of the NAM more people to learn to handle RUL2 to be able to relax a little or legends like Jonathan and Memo to return.
- Ivo
Mine's at 202,700 right now--I've got some stuff in mine that Vince doesn't, and he has some stuff I don't. I'd predict by this time next year, we'll be around 250,000-300,000.
In terms of comparing the RHW and NWM in terms of difficulty adding to them, the RHW requires not only a lot of RUL2, but a lot of RUL0 stuff. The reason we have the RHW staffed as well as we do is because we have more folks with the abilities to be productive over there. The NWM's a lot lighter on the need for puzzle pieces. The pathing involved is also a fair bit more complex. RHW paths on some of the wider networks have a lot fewer stanzas than NWM paths.
-Alex
*sniff sniff* Do I smell the NWM2 Secret Weapon being a WAVERide piece?
Actually, it probably would not fall into the WAVERide category.
-Alex
I'm guessing it's a NAVE-4?
Quote from: Wiimeiser on July 21, 2011, 11:21:07 PM
I'm guessing it's a NAVE-4?
Nope. It's not a new network.
-Alex
What Tarkus DID say it was was a facility to make constructing NWM networks easier. I thought it already WAS easy...
My guess for this first secret weapon of NWM is that it is a puzzle piece that can be:
- New roundabout
- A new method for building networks using UPS to track startet
- Intersection of two levels
Ivo
It's not puzzle-based at all, either.
If I took a screenshot of the "secret weapon", you probably wouldn't be able to spot it. It's not too exciting to look at and it'd probably seem "camouflaged". $%Grinno$% It's quite exciting to use, however.
-Alex
So everything said here to draw conclusions that would be a tool for construction of NWM without using a starter piece.
Regards,
Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on July 22, 2011, 11:58:52 AM
So everything said here to draw conclusions that would be a tool for construction of NWM without using a starter piece.
Someone crafty enough would do THIS to obtain a network starter. But no matter what, you still need an actual starter.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg836.imageshack.us%2Fimg836%2F2614%2Fcapturesecretstarters.jpg&hash=0f746032ebb43a4e08e5428280a038e6a0a2d9e6)
Just for the record, the ability to do this has been around forever. Some starters are impossible to create this way, and the puzzle-plop starter would be the only way to get it.
Ivo_su's solution might work for certain occasions, but would only work on one network per width and base network type. Ergo: 1 road based 2-tile network (TLA-5 or MAVE-4), 1 road based 3-tile network (AVE-6 or TLA-7) and 1 2-tile OWR based network (OWR-4 or 5). The method I describe here is the one that was used on early RHW releases, when RHW-4 was created by dragging two RHW-2's side by side. But I doubt this will be used, since if it would work, why is it not used on the RHW-8 or 10?
My money is on using the AVE-4 as base network. Thus MAVE-4 would no longer be Road based, but Avenue based, making drawing it some easier, because you just have to 'pull' the network once, instead of twice. This fit's all of Tarkus' hints, and though it has been said that overriding is very hard, if not next to impossible (I remember a video or pictures showing it is possible, but the guy posting it also said it was difficult), but perhaps new methods have been found, making modding it easier.
Regards,
Korot
Korot if you read further back in the pages will know that the AVE-4 will not be used because it is too complicated to be based. That is why, and AVE-6 and TLA-7 will be based on road. Alex was explained in detail why not use AVE-4 because of my inquiry, but still I think I'm closest to the disclosure of surprise. This innovation is perhaps easier to use than in the NWM in RHW or I do not know but I think there is something revolutionary associated with the absence of starter pieces.
- Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on July 22, 2011, 01:21:33 PM
Korot if you read further back in the pages will know that the AVE-4 will not be used because it is too complicated to be based. That is why, and AVE-6 and TLA-7 will be based on road. Alex was explained in detail why not use AVE-4 because of my inquiry, but still I think I'm closest to the disclosure of surprise. This innovation is perhaps easier to use than in the NWM in RHW or I do not know but I think there is something revolutionary associated with the absence of starter pieces.
Actually, on the AVE/MAVE front, it'd probably make more sense to have a mod that converts the default AVEs into MAVE-4s, and do a copy-paste of the TLA-5 RULs to produce a Road-based "true AVE-4", with a split-tile rather than shared-tile diagonal setup. I'm not sure how well that would work logistically, however--I'll need to study it further.
And no one's quite figured out the "secret weapon" yet.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 22, 2011, 02:32:07 PM
Actually, on the AVE/MAVE front, it'd probably make more sense to have a mod that converts the default AVEs into MAVE-4s, and do a copy-paste of the TLA-5 RULs to produce a Road-based "true AVE-4", with a split-tile rather than shared-tile diagonal setup.
That would make perfect sense. ;D ;D ;D
Just make an extra starter piece and put all the RUL entries between MAVE-6 and AVE-6. MAVE-6 is 0x5114xxxx, and AVE-6 outer is 0x5120xxxx. Just designate the "True AVE-4" as 0x5115xxxx, and configure two buttons: One with the current arrangement of networks (plus the three new ones), and one with the True AVE-4. And for the installer, make it so that one can select between having the True AVE-4 or not (hence the two buttons/tab menus).
The ability to transition from True AVE-4 (NAMAVE-4) to Maxis AVE-4 (MaxAVE-4) should also be given, so that people who use the ATL (like myself) can still make an ATL crossing and connect it to the NAMAVE-4. It wouldn't make sense to convert the MaxAVE-4 to MAVE-4, because it would ruin the ATL (Not everyone uses TuLEPs, you know...). Also, puzzle pieces that involve connections to the MaxAVE-4 won't be that hindered (just plop the NAMAVE to MaxAVE transition right across from it).
There's also another advantage to this: MaxAVE-4 is a "sticky network" in the sense that wealthification is sticky (Zone something next to it, and the entire stretch becomes wealthified, not the tiles within a certain radius). A NAMAVE-4 would eliminate that.
As for TuLEPs, it would be no different placing them, because they're made that way. And just for the record, why not make the NAMAVE-4 with yellow lines not only to distinguish it from the MaxAVE, but to make it like all the other AVEs?
Does that solve all the logistical problems? Its RULs would need to be copied off of the MAVE-6 instead of TLA-5 (which is also "schizotile"), so it has all the intersection information from TLA-3 to MAVE-6, and the remainder of the intersections, other than intersections with itself, just needs to be coded into 0x5120xxxx and 0x5121xxxx (The IIDs for AVE-6, AVE-8, TLA-7, and TLA-9).
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on July 22, 2011, 05:14:36 PM
It wouldn't make sense to convert the MaxAVE-4 to MAVE-4, because it would ruin the ATL (Not everyone uses TuLEPs, you know...).
Not necessarily . . . one could just modify the MAVE-4-to-TLA-5 transition textures to add in a turn lane, and stick them in as a MAVE-4 TL setup.
If folks wanted an ATL-style setup, now that I have a better understanding of how the RTL works, it might be possible to override the RTL to make turn lanes for the "true AVE-4". I've been considering turning the NWM's interaction with the RTL into actual NWM turn lanes for some networks in a future release.
-Alex
*is still wondering what the secret weapon is*
So it's mainly useful to use, not to see. Perhaps...is it some sort of stability improvement?
This makes it far, far easier :thumbsup:
a one tile starter the behaves as a normal network piece so we dont have to delete anything?
Hello, NAM team, and today I am requesting a texture variation piece, much like the RHW-2 texture variaton piece. It's a TLA-3 with bike paths on both sides. It would be a texture variation for the TLA-3 of course.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg98.imageshack.us%2Fimg98%2F4849%2Ftla3withbikelanetexture.jpg&hash=75001bb175e23ea2e5b77837ee04b3dfd8f658fb)
(That's a section of road in Provo, Utah, up on the foothills)
Thanks!
I don't think bike paths would be feasible on the TLA-3 because at 3 lanes, it already fills the tile for the most part, and adding in bike lanes wouldn't leave room for sidewalks. You'll notice that the MAVE-4 has bike paths, but that's because it's a narrow network for two tiles, and the sidewalks would be abnormally wide otherwise. By the same token, the MAVE-6 doesn't have bike paths because 6 lanes is plenty wide as it is, and adding bike paths would take away from the sidewalks.
The picture you posted would take up 2 tiles in SimCity 4. It looks like a TLA-5 with the shoulder lane replaced with a bike lane and parking lane.
My thoughts on the matter are the same as those expressed by Rionescu and Keuwr665--not really feasible.
On another note . . . a couple heavily-requested transitions are now implemented.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg694.imageshack.us%2Fimg694%2F563%2Fnwm072420111.jpg&hash=968aea9f314af9f4ae44bf20e97923e35e649ac9)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg543.imageshack.us%2Fimg543%2F2939%2Fnwm072420112.jpg&hash=1f31776516cd1a21ab11298cc404f45c79d3a53f)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 24, 2011, 12:24:56 PM
My thoughts on the matter are the same as those expressed by Rionescu and Keuwr665--not really feasible.
On another note . . . a couple heavily-requested transitions are now implemented.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg694.imageshack.us%2Fimg694%2F563%2Fnwm072420111.jpg&hash=968aea9f314af9f4ae44bf20e97923e35e649ac9)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg543.imageshack.us%2Fimg543%2F2939%2Fnwm072420112.jpg&hash=1f31776516cd1a21ab11298cc404f45c79d3a53f)
-Alex
That's very cool, I think the OWR 6 transition from a Mave 6 will be handy for me :)
Is anyone else getting the feeling that the OWR NWM setup is kinda RHW - like? All those splitters, many different lane configurations...%confuso
-Alex ;)
Quote from: Kuewr665 on July 24, 2011, 09:30:01 AM
The picture you posted would take up 2 tiles in SimCity 4. It looks like a TLA-5 with the shoulder lane replaced with a bike lane and parking lane.
It looks that way, because that road is that wide, its painted like that to prevent it from being the case, I have seen a lot of situations like these. If someone else took the extra time to make that a puzzle piece for the TLA-5, textures alone, you would need to mod the blocked lanes of travel, and parked T21 cars, where there normally would be through traffic. I think you may be on your own with this one PS2.
Quotehttp://img694.imageshack.us/img694/563/nwm072420111.jpg
Looks like a narrow AVE-6. Just what I want. :D
Can the TLA-3 and TLA-5 get the ability to drive all the way through the center line on both sides? Also, why does it veer off the road every tile?
Quote from: ps2owner on July 25, 2011, 09:16:30 AM
Can the TLA-3 and TLA-5 get the ability to drive all the way through the center line on both sides? Also, why does it veer off the road every tile?
Someone would have to create puzzle pieces for the reversible lanes. The paths turn off on the TLA-5 to provide car access to the buildings on the opposite side of the road. I'm not sure for the TLA-3, because cars can already access the businesses without the paths.
Quote from: Kuewr665 on July 25, 2011, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: ps2owner on July 25, 2011, 09:16:30 AM
Can the TLA-3 and TLA-5 get the ability to drive all the way through the center line on both sides? Also, why does it veer off the road every tile?
Someone would have to create puzzle pieces for the reversible lanes. The paths turn off on the TLA-5 to provide car access to the buildings on the opposite side of the road. I'm not sure for the TLA-3, because cars can already access the businesses without the paths.
Cars cannot drive down the center lane because in real life that is illegal, the center lane is not for travel. The TLA-5 paths to the road edge do allow access across both tiles, the TLA-3 paths are for consistency and for the intersection effect to bump the capacity of the network.
Reversible lanes are not possible to make functional in game and therefore will not be made, sorry.
The TLA is a complicated situation, in my downtown, they reconfigured a road with one, but it was actually because it was in the middle of two busy turn lanes, and despite the cross hatch right before the arrows guess what happens? In this case, the cars will go straight when backed up, besides there are no parking lots in this spot to turn off of.
Yesterday while trying to sleep I thought about the NWM secret weapon. And I think I have a very close guess. As we know the secret weapon is not noticeable but it helps in the construction. We know that many of the NWM networks are 2 or 3 tiles wide. This means that building them needs dragging road from the starter piece 2 or 3 times, and this slows it down. However, replacement of the road-draggable starter piece with an AVE one is unlikely to be true. But I guess that the NAM have come up with a way to build large networks with a single dragging. Whether that is made by MHW, AVE or El-rail - I don't know yet, but I'm guessing I'm very close to the truth.
Best,
Ivo
Nope, not quite. I'm surprised no one has figured it out yet. At any rate, I am preparing a video of it.
-Alex
It is a draggable transition by any chance?
Quote from: Tarkus on July 27, 2011, 11:04:43 AMI am preparing a video of it.
So I'm guessing we'll be able to see it
soon? ;D
Quote from: Tarkus on July 27, 2011, 11:04:43 AM
Nope, not quite. I'm surprised no one has figured it out yet. At any rate, I am preparing a video of it.
-Alex
Alex Does this mean that if you started making videos, so secret weapon is ready? If so I can not wait to see what it will and I will look with great interest your video.
Regards,
Ivo
Guess: drag one tile of wide NWM networks and the other tiles follow suit?
Quote from: jdenm8 on July 22, 2011, 08:48:28 PM
This makes it far, far easier :thumbsup:
As soon as I read this I thought far angles. Maybe I'm wrong?
edit: i think i meant what was said below my post, FANWM. i gave up on acronyms long ago, it's gone to 'far' (ugh ugh) for me. ::)
Quote from: jmdude1 on July 29, 2011, 12:36:49 AM
As soon as I read this I thought far angles. Maybe I'm wrong?
We have another FAR angle? What...?!! ()what()
Personally speaking, it would make sense to have more than one FAR angle... ;) But we don't even have any FANWM yet... &cry2
Ganaram, you did create textures for an FATLA-5.
However, Tarkus mentioned that it would be hard to spot in a screenshot. Fractional angle networks are kinda easy to see.
It is not FANWM networks. We've only just implemented the basic framework for most of what would be required (FAAVE-4)
Spotted a texture error at zoom levels 3 and higher at an intersection between a Maxis Avenue and a MAVE-6.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1122.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl536%2Fjacksunny%2FJackCity-Jul1161312118394.jpg&hash=b055d55baf4b9482945cac40339cb8acbcf4416f)
Under the traffic lights it is black and not the sidewalk texture that it should be.
It's probably already known about, but there's also a similar bug present on the OWR-1 starter pieces:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg155.imageshack.us%2Fimg155%2F3355%2Fowr1bug.jpg&hash=6da8b322f0ba01775ae4105c612dcece3de33b66)
Quote from: Dexter on July 31, 2011, 11:10:56 AM
It's probably already known about, but there's also a similar bug present on the OWR-1 starter pieces:
I'm personally well aware of that, and it's because Rail is hierarchically higher than OWR; Instead of the OWR's sidewalk textures showing while next to zoning, it's the Rail's dirt textures instead. (Personally speaking, I have it so that there are NO dirt textures, making it even more obnoxious.) The only way to fix that problem is to "bake in" the sidewalk textures into the actual OWR textures, and it doesn't appear to be worth fixing (by the NAM Team at least) because there are a LOT of sidewalk texture variations... (A third-party fix would be OK...)
As of the defunct AVE-4/MAVE-6 intersection textures, there seems to be a problem with the texture's alpha transparency for zoom 3 and 4, so the textures might need to be redone.
Quote from: Exla357 on July 24, 2011, 08:17:17 PM
Is anyone else getting the feeling that the OWR NWM setup is kinda RHW - like?
Don't worry; I had the same exact feeling... ;) (Thinks of the 8S D2 Ramp...)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on July 31, 2011, 11:44:53 AM
Quote from: Dexter on July 31, 2011, 11:10:56 AM
It's probably already known about, but there's also a similar bug present on the OWR-1 starter pieces:
I'm personally well aware of that, and it's because Rail is hierarchically higher than OWR; Instead of the OWR's sidewalk textures showing while next to zoning, it's the Rail's dirt textures instead.
If we were to change the starter piece definition, that could be avoided to an extent--but it'd involve changing every puzzle piece that involves an OWR-1 starter as well. It would only really be feasible if we were ready to convert the OWR-1 to an OWS-1, which we're still looking at doing.
Quote from: Exla357 on July 24, 2011, 08:17:17 PM
Is anyone else getting the feeling that the OWR NWM setup is kinda RHW - like?
Don't worry; I had the same exact feeling... ;) (Thinks of the 8S D2 Ramp...)
[/quote]
Given that they operate on a similar principle/design paradigm and have had the same folks working on them, generally, that's not at all surprising.
-Alex
Hey Alex, what happened with the video showing the NWM secret weapon? :P Is it still in the works?
Quote from: io_bg on July 31, 2011, 12:48:12 PM
Hey Alex, what happened with the video showing the NWM secret weapon? :P Is it still in the works?
It is still in the works. Just like the releasing the actual mod itself, no date or timeline for the video. :D
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 31, 2011, 05:39:56 PM
Quote from: io_bg on July 31, 2011, 12:48:12 PM
Hey Alex, what happened with the video showing the NWM secret weapon? :P Is it still in the works?
It is still in the works. Just like the releasing the actual mod itself, no date or timeline for the video. :D
-Alex
Lol. anyway I saw a screen shot in one of your citys: (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg853.imageshack.us%2Fimg853%2F1736%2Felave4oreltla5.png&hash=420db494909f083f760feb0b4f8894ca30e6ab43) and was wondering, Is that TLA-5 Elevated stuff? Or is it just a Texture change of AVE-4?
Considering its hooked up to an AVE-4...
But yeah. Elevated AVE-4's will have solid medians. An elevated TLA-5 wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.
I was just wondering, What is the point of the TLA's. Is there any point besides increased capacity and texture change? I've seen You guys cut of the TLA's to turn lanes, so That would kind of through it off as a turn lane.
Quote from: ps2owner on July 31, 2011, 07:26:41 PM
I was just wondering, What is the point of the TLA's. Is there any point besides increased capacity and texture change? I've seen You guys cut of the TLA's to turn lanes, so That would kind of through it off as a turn lane.
The TLA-5 was the first "prototype" of the entire NWM project. Its main purpose was to get around one drawback of the existing Avenues--allowing traffic to cross the median and access zones on the other side without having to go up to an intersection and do a U-Turn. The TLA-7 operates on the same principle. The TLA-3's center turn lane functionality is more on the side of cosmetics, since it's only a single-tile-wide network.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 31, 2011, 07:45:26 PM
The TLA-5 was the first "prototype" of the entire NWM project. Its main purpose was to get around one drawback of the existing Avenues--allowing traffic to cross the median and access zones on the other side without having to go up to an intersection and do a U-Turn.
It's also an incredibly American piece of infrastructure and rarely seen outside of North America. There are similar traffic objects around the world (Flush Medians are one that springs to mind), but they're scarce too. Its inclusion can probably be attributed to the fact that most of the people who work on the NWM (Pretty much just Tarkus) are American.
As for the overpasses, myself or someone else will most likley make a texture that has a concrete median (more akin to the current pieces) to replace the current Flush Median.
Quote
It is still in the works. Just like the releasing the actual mod itself, no date or timeline for the video. :D
Hey Alex when you finished the video immediately call me, without worry of the time difference because I want to be the first to see it.
:D :D :D
Best,
Ivo
Reaching back a bit . . .
Quote from: Rady on June 23, 2011, 01:48:20 AM
Just to get an idea: are there plans to add the missing (compared to "normal" Maxis roads / avenues) junction types for MAVE, ... Like a 90-degree-turn for the MAVE-4 (like the avenue 90-degree turn), or the MAVE-4 / ARD T-junction (see pic) ... and I suppose there are some more missing pieces, haven't tried all of them right now.
Now solved . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg64.imageshack.us%2Fimg64%2F3381%2Fnwm080420111.jpg&hash=51a979a3632fa97d7fb2fe9fce0adc90bb8005e5)
-Alex
Thanks Alex,
You will say that the Girafe is really paintful &ops
but I have a question regarding the texture of this crossing.
Why we have marks I underlined in red (it seems they are not in the right direction).
Surely something you will adjust after :)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F2c4a62a1060b8c9e322c611036de7f20.jpg&hash=001887f6880640db3b8af81d844a3acf078555b7) (http://www.ld-host.de/)
That is odd...perhaps it's leftover wear from the + intersection.
Quote from: Tarkus on August 04, 2011, 05:27:32 PM
Now solved . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg64.imageshack.us%2Fimg64%2F3381%2Fnwm080420111.jpg&hash=51a979a3632fa97d7fb2fe9fce0adc90bb8005e5)
-Alex
Juhhu! &hlp &hlp
I just know I feel really black, or which are painted paths MAVE-4 looks darker than black in ARD? And there you have to show us your secret weapon for NWM, which excites me so much?
Regards,
Ivo
Two questions.
1.Will there be an AVE-6 to RHW-6C Transition?
2.What networks would the AVE-6/TLA-7 Tuleps interface with?
Quote from: sitejunction on August 06, 2011, 11:15:17 AM
1.Will there be an AVE-6 to RHW-6C Transition?
Maarten did some textures for one, but it hasn't been implemented yet, and I don't know whether or not I'll get that added in for Version 2.0 or not. Have to stop adding features some time. ::)
Quote from: sitejunction on August 06, 2011, 11:15:17 AM
2.What networks would the AVE-6/TLA-7 Tuleps interface with?
I have built intersection pieces to allow them to interface with Road TuLEPs (and by extension, TLA-3/AVE-2) and Avenue Type A TuLEPs (and by extension, TLA-5). That'll probably be it for Version 2.0.
-Alex
And 'normal' networks? Can I just draw a road to/through an AVE-6 and get a working intersection, or will I get three roadxroad intersections, ergo, a failure?
Regards,
Korot
Which version of the NWM are planning to have elavated networks of full spectrum of NWM. We will alert you of this possible in 2012 or 2013.
Regards,
Ivo
Quote from: Korot on August 06, 2011, 02:16:31 PM
And 'normal' networks? Can I just draw a road to/through an AVE-6 and get a working intersection, or will I get three roadxroad intersections, ergo, a failure?
A working intersection--that was one of the first I created, in fact (as support for all other intersections between triple-tile networks and all other Road-based NWM networks required it to be in place). The triple-tile networks will be able to do virtually everything the dual-tile networks can do, within reason. You won't be able do silly things like end a TLA-7 or AVE-6 at a Road, for instance, but most reasonable intersection types are supported.
(median trees sold separately)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F7633%2Fnwm080620111.jpg&hash=557ea1ee1ad7c52adb99cc4b9ebed8632c25e1f9)
Quote from: ivo_su on August 06, 2011, 02:39:09 PM
Which version of the NWM are planning to have elavated networks of full spectrum of NWM. We will alert you of this possible in 2012 or 2013.
Don't know yet. I'll have a better idea once NWM 2.0 is done and work's begun on its successor. Something of that magnitude sounds like another X.0 release, however--probably 3.0.
-Alex
Tarkus, do you have a picture of a TLA-7 or AVE-6 with zones on it? I just wanted to see how the streetlighting would look.
Pretty much like that. There are only streetlights on the outside on alternating tiles (I think) thanks to the limitations of Wealthing.
::) ::) ::)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg845.imageshack.us%2Fimg845%2F5524%2Fcaptureave6withave4prop.jpg&hash=0377755976e3691bcbefd10672d329da734595cc)
This was an old T21 experiment of mine where I took the AVE-4's props and reused them for the AVE-6 (and AVE-8). There are several problems I see with this, though:
- The outer parts will likely have their own lights for the TLA-7, adding extra lights to an AVE-6 setup. (Not unless they're deactivated and the TLA-7's median bears overhanging lights instead.)
- The lights have to be near powered zones to work.
- Like the plants, they have to be set up so that they're always showing.
- jdenm8's description would be the most likely setup. (But that doesn't mean someone won't be able to make a third-party lighting mod in the way that I described...)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on August 07, 2011, 03:06:57 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg845.imageshack.us%2Fimg845%2F5524%2Fcaptureave6withave4prop.jpg&hash=0377755976e3691bcbefd10672d329da734595cc)
I still prefer Alexs' T21 AVE 6 ::) $%Grinno$% To me this looks weird w/the Maxis shrubbery on a new network.
Either way the road itself is going to be awesome to have ;)
My opinion is that the medians did Alex look pretty weird and I do not like them. The idea that Ganaram comes with a median of T21 Maxi's I like very much and I want to congratulate him for that. I definitely think it needs medium light and shrubs (not trees). Naturally lamps may have sidewalks on both sides, but I also like to have lights in the middle. Once again I welcome the idea of Ganaram with an open heart and hope to build on it to see it light.
Regards,
Ivo
Okay, let me clear this up...
The T21s that both Tarkus and Ganaram use are privately-made ones and they posses the only copies.
AVE-6 will most likely be similar to the T21s for AVE-2, with minimal decoration beyond simple lighting.
Also, while it does make perfect sense to only have lights in the median on AVE-6, it's simply not possible due to how AVE-6/AVE-8 and TLA-7/TLA-9 work, which all share components (Think RHW-6C/RHW-8C but with a second kind of median, that's kind of how AVE-6/AVE-8 and TLA-7/TLA-9 works)
Quote from: jdenm8 on August 07, 2011, 06:43:05 AM
Okay, let me clear this up...
The T21s that both Tarkus and Ganaram use are privately-made ones and they posses the only copies.
AVE-6 will most likely be similar to the T21s for AVE-2, with minimal decoration beyond simple lighting.
Also, while it does make perfect sense to only have lights in the median on AVE-6, it's simply not possible due to how AVE-6/AVE-8 and TLA-7/TLA-9 work, which all share components (Think RHW-6C/RHW-8C but with a second kind of median, that's kind of how AVE-6/AVE-8 and TLA-7/TLA-9 works)
It is possible to have lights (or anything else) in the AVE-6/7/8 median with two caveats.
One: Whatever is there will be shared by all three networks since they share a median tile.
Two: Whatever is there will always be there and will not change depending on zoning and wealth. The median tile is road locked, it can't touch any zoning to have wealth or zone dependent T21s.
The first rule applies to the outer tiles as well, whatever is there will be shared among the AVE-6/7 and TLA-7/8 or AVE-7/8 and TLA-8/9 depending on which tile. Since the outer tiles do touch zones however, they can have zoning or wealth dependent T21s.
Unfortunately, even offset props attached to the outer tiles can't get around this because you would end up with median planters (or whatever) in the middle of the turn late on the TLAs. The reverse is also true since you can't be sure from the middle tile how wide the roadway is on the outer tiles, unless you simply put the street lights being in position on the sidewalk of the wider roadway and deal with them being out a bit far on the narrower one.
I had to deal with this for my railroad crossings since that involves props interacting across multiple tiles.
Is the secret weapon puzzle piece transitions without starters?
Just wondering, Is it possible to create a version of the TLA-5 that has highway type speeds? Like the roads in This canyon:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg853.imageshack.us%2Fimg853%2F2562%2Fhighspeedtla5.png&hash=a83e72fa5e56fa7d77c42e61f2d3586707db7a90)
You can see that some of it is RHW-2, but some of it is TLA-5 . The speed ranges from 65, to 50 and 40 at lowest.
I think its American fork canyon, or Spanish fork canyon. Not sure, though.
39°59'59.06" N 111°28'49.66" W is the location. Type that into google earth.
Its not like your going to get stopped for changing the TLA's speed yourself, but the TLA-5 just has one speed set to it, its not like you can build the TLA-5 in different sections where the speed limit physically changes, due to game limitations. What still is on the master plan is being able to choose puzzle pieces for whatever speed limit signs you want to see. This may or may not be included as part of this project, but in any event, speed limit signs in SC4 are only for decorative purposes, unless otherwise posted.
While a "TLRHW-5" has been requested a fair bit, I still have not worked out the best way to implement such a network, and it is not a high priority at this time. As the NWM does not deal with RHW-based networks (aside from transitions and intersections), that'd probably be more of an RHW project. The only additional networks currently planned for release sometime after Version 2.0 are as follows:
-TLA-8
-TLA-9
-AVE-7
-AVE-8
-ARD-4 (3+1 setup)
-OWS-1 (OWR-1 converted to Street base)
Also under consideration:
-AVE-3
-TLA-4
-AVE-5
-TLA-6
Speaking of RHW transitions, I did a little sneakage.
(this one still needs color correction)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg834.imageshack.us%2Fimg834%2F7396%2Fnwm080720111.jpg&hash=86c4a4aae66f2ac7ea6004729fcc198493075850)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg231.imageshack.us%2Fimg231%2F7376%2Fnwm080720112.jpg&hash=f0fdfa62927d2b781f73c085f9998333007ea539)
That's just a couple of them.
-Alex
Looks good Alex :)
Thanks for sharing information and photos displayed from you Alex.
First let me say that the transitions that show you are striking and perfect. Something extremely valuable and necessary that I hope to be part of NWM 2.0
Second, I know I have not understood correctly or you're talking about a whole bunch of new networks that will be included in version 2.0. Because as far as I remember some time ago only speak for AVE-6 TLA-7 and NMAVE-4. Last plan so I left her, or you totally crazy and will enter a whole bunch of new networks in the last minute. It's really confusing for me and I guess that all these networks that talk will be part of further steps in development. It seems unreal to be ready for version 2.0, although all of them are super similar to a common middle section and such outside shoulders. It would be fantastic course to use them now but really I do not think that is possible. Sounds too good to be true.
Regards,
Ivo
Quote from: Tarkus on August 07, 2011, 04:32:12 PM
Speaking of RHW transitions, I did a little sneakage.
Cool.
The abundance of these convenient transitions will make the NWM so much easier to use. Keep up the great work!
Thanks, guys--I'm glad the transitions are to your liking. :) Have a bit more on that front to show in a bit.
Quote from: ivo_su on August 07, 2011, 05:00:09 PM
Second, I know I have not understood correctly or you're talking about a whole bunch of new networks that will be included in version 2.0. Because as far as I remember some time ago only speak for AVE-6 TLA-7 and NMAVE-4. Last plan so I left her, or you totally crazy and will enter a whole bunch of new networks in the last minute. It's really confusing for me and I guess that all these networks that talk will be part of further steps in development. It seems unreal to be ready for version 2.0, although all of them are super similar to a common middle section and such outside shoulders. It would be fantastic course to use them now but really I do not think that is possible. Sounds too good to be true.
Don't worry, I'm not sneaking a bunch more networks in. :D I was referring to long-term plans for beyond NWM 2.0 . . . probably to the point of Version 3.0 or even 4.0. Just the TLA-7, AVE-6 and NMAVE-4 will be added in 2.0. ;)
-Alex
One thing I noticed about SC4 intersections that bugged me was that the placement of the stoplights are in front of the intersection, and not on the far side. It could get a little hard for drivers stopping right at the crosswalks to have to open their sunroof to see the traffic light.
Quote from: Exla357 on August 07, 2011, 08:22:00 PM
One thing I noticed about SC4 intersections that bugged me was that the placement of the stoplights are in front of the intersection, and not on the far side. It could get a little hard for drivers stopping right at the crosswalks to have to open their sunroof to see the traffic light.
The reason for that is for simplification of the RULs. In order to have traffic lights on the far side of the intersection, T and + intersections would not be able to share a common inner tile on multi-tile networks, which would mean more textures and more complicated and potentially unstable RULs.
However, since I discovered how to make S3D-based animations work (click the link in my signature), we can make stoplight props with very large offsets to place them in the correct positions with the current RULs, which was not the case with the ATC-based stoplights. They will not be part of version 2.0, but you may see new stop light sets coming along once people have more free time again.
Quote from: Exla357 on August 07, 2011, 08:22:00 PM
One thing I noticed about SC4 intersections that bugged me was that the placement of the stoplights are in front of the intersection, and not on the far side. It could get a little hard for drivers stopping right at the crosswalks to have to open their sunroof to see the traffic light.
Its true ... but I remember Paris being like that and some intersections in Marrakech and Fes too (morocco... and french built too)... and I'm sure other euro-cities are like it too. To make matters worth... the area I was in had trees obscuring the lights too so it was a crapshot if you saw the red or not. &mmm
I Have an idea for the Secret weapon.
Is it Dragable Neighbor Connections without using puzzle pieces?
Anyway, Great work. I wait in anticipation.
The main part of intersection stoplights in Finland are also at the front of the intersection, though there is always also a stoplight visible to cars stopped at the line, typically a single set of lights in the median on the far side of the intersection. I think that is fairly normal for Europe.
In a perfect world it would be nice to be able to choose between European and American setups (and whatever else is out there that I'm unaware of) but, assuming I had to pick one, I would take the American style.
Quote from: Exla357 on August 07, 2011, 08:22:00 PM
One thing I noticed about SC4 intersections that bugged me was that the placement of the stoplights are in front of the intersection, and not on the far side. It could get a little hard for drivers stopping right at the crosswalks to have to open their sunroof to see the traffic light.
Funny, the exact opposite setup of the other intersections always bugged me.
The Western-European setup (I've seen otherwise in other European countries, especially Denmark), the stoplights are placed at the adject side of the intersection. This forces drives to stop before the intersection, because otherwise they can't see the stoplight, which is in my opinion safer. Usually, the stop-line is usually about 5m away from the stoplight, as you can see here:
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=52.047648,4.475437&spn=0,0.002642&z=19&layer=c&cbll=52.047648,4.475437&panoid=wqDwD_RRhmaOyLhdQzHZnw&cbp=12,346.56,,0,7.86
Could this be implemented in SC4? I've always wanted the stoplights not to be on the other side of the intersections.
^^ I'm working on that ;)
Quote from: mrtnrln on August 09, 2011, 03:34:36 AM
Quote from: Exla357 on August 07, 2011, 08:22:00 PM
One thing I noticed about SC4 intersections that bugged me was that the placement of the stoplights are in front of the intersection, and not on the far side. It could get a little hard for drivers stopping right at the crosswalks to have to open their sunroof to see the traffic light.
Funny, the exact opposite setup of the other intersections always bugged me.
The Western-European setup (I've seen otherwise in other European countries, especially Denmark), the stoplights are placed at the adject side of the intersection. This forces drives to stop before the intersection, because otherwise they can't see the stoplight, which is in my opinion safer. Usually, the stop-line is usually about 5m away from the stoplight, as you can see here:
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=52.047648,4.475437&spn=0,0.002642&z=19&layer=c&cbll=52.047648,4.475437&panoid=wqDwD_RRhmaOyLhdQzHZnw&cbp=12,346.56,,0,7.86
That was bizarre seeing that Google Maps street view considering I was at that very intersection last week!
Having choice is always great. I'm a greater fan of the Western-European set up than I am of the Australian set up, so thanks Maarten on working on that.
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=dandenong+rd&hl=en&ll=-37.893101,145.088553&spn=0.001336,0.002411&sll=-37.81231,144.961917&sspn=0.005348,0.009645&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=-37.893114,145.08866&panoid=Zf74sZ7H5mvLR39-Ujd_2A&cbp=12,264.5,,0,4.71
Quote from: mrtnrln on August 09, 2011, 03:34:36 AM
This forces drives to stop before the intersection, because otherwise they can't see the stoplight, which is in my opinion safer.
It also means you lose 1.5 cars per lane, something "completely unacceptable" in Australia :P
Better solution: Teach your drivers to drive in a straight line through an intersection and not take the drunk route ::)
As for Australia... We generally have lights on both the far and adjacent sides of the intersection, as well as a pole with two lights (one for each direction usually, though there are three-head ones for Y and Five-Way intersections &dd ) in each median. Absolutely no excuse for running it then.
Probably the best in-context one I can get quick, MAVE-5 vs WOWR-2 (an OWR-2 as wide as an OWR-4).
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?ll=-27.614427,152.760891&spn=0.004573,0.010568&t=k&z=17&layer=c&cbll=-27.614347,152.760924&panoid=SB8_oE0d9HXUOCveE0IMQQ&cbp=13,184.28,,0,3.56
Reminds me a bit of Denmark, but in Denmark it's going completely mad...
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=55.67356,12.572528&spn=0,0.003484&z=19&layer=c&cbll=55.673514,12.572645&panoid=DwME0SImgMVCq2wXOBRDWg&cbp=12,290.75,,0,14.97
6 traffic lights, only for thourough traffic!
I see, how are you talking and think, maybe I can add something also?
In Poland traffic lights are always placed in front of the intersections. Putting them, on the far would create problem, how to put traffic signs on them (which are taken into consideration, when lights are off). It's just used, behind the crosswalks.
I think in polish road law, placing lights on the far side might be not possible - because after the intersection the new road starts, when sings (an traffic lights) are in force only on the road, which they are situated on.
But it's also quite often to see, some "half-diagonal" poles. Maybe this example is no so accurate, but I mean just a pole.
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=50.0154809&lon=19.9708714&z=21&l=28&m=s
Sorry, but Poland has not yet StreetView.
Some countries put them in the front, some countries but them in the back. Its just despite the differences the red yellow and green seems to have stayed the same across the globe. Funny story, even though some American dudes working on video games portrait US cities in some driving games with traffic lights before the crossing, %99 percent of the the time, the signals are after the intersection.
As for Google Streetview, the problem with that has always been privacy compromises, so that will be a long time to work out everywhere. Instead of doing major cities, they seem to drive around where I live, taking shots at ground level of all the subdivisions. I would say that's all fine and well, but I would think businesses and places like transit stops, parking garages and civic centers would be more important. That intersection you posted Mrtnrln, proves compromises in their filter system. For pervs its a nightmare when they block some faces out, but it seems like that software needs to be worked out, sometimes small stuff like tire caps and important signs will be blurred out for no reason. Occasionally not all faces are blurred at times. It seems the blurring is based on an overlap, and you can see for 1 second, before the blurring overlaps. I saw some people doing stuff in streetview, I can not even repeat here. So don't feel the need to regret the lack of street view Kbieniu. Sometimes, you have to take pictures of signals yourself, when streetview does not do it for you.
Now, the issue about signal configurations is because there are so many differences per intersection, I don't think we are talking all of the differences here as proposal. While I would say it would be great for LHD and RHD to have the option to regulate signals either to the front or rear consistently, versus the TuLEPs and NWM having opposing signal setups, its like who has time to fix that?
How about we get back on topic? ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg192.imageshack.us%2Fimg192%2F1126%2Fnwm080920111.jpg&hash=50ecde3786f06004c41e11119ec2cce90e27bc17)
-Alex
I think that a pedestrain crossing lot, with an "island" in the middle, would fit there :)
A question about that transition: Are they dragable? Ergo: Dragging a TLA-3 into a RHW-2 will create this transition, instead of the road to RHW-2 one?
Regards,
Korot
Hello !!!
I see the there's a discussion about the traffic lights and everyone is explaining how they are in his country. I think the ones in Bulgaria are made the best possible way. Instead of having lights only in the front or in the back of the intersection, here they put traffic lights on both places. This way the cars located closer to the front light can see the one placed in the back (since they can't see the front one above them). And the rest of the cars can use the traffic light which is in the front. It's simple and great - I hope now the discussion will be over.
P.S
Alex I like your transitions and can not wait to see more of them. I hope they will be included in version 2.0. I suppose you think of to make the transition
OWR-2 \ RHW-4
AVE-6 \ RHW-6C
Best,
Ivo
^^ Disagreed with that. Costs more money to put traffic lights on both sides (like in Denmark), and it looks kinda messy. Moreover, this setup gives the same problem as with every opposite-side setups: you can still see the stoplight when you passed the stopline, which you shouldn't when it's red. This might lead to unsafe situations, with cars standing on the actual intersection, waiting for the red light...
Quote from: Korot on August 09, 2011, 01:36:08 PM
A question about that transition: Are they dragable? Ergo: Dragging a TLA-3 into a RHW-2 will create this transition, instead of the road to RHW-2 one?
They are. ;)
Quote from: ivo_su on August 09, 2011, 02:16:37 PM
P.S
Alex I like your transitions and can not wait to see more of them. I hope they will be included in version 2.0. I suppose you think of to make the transition
OWR-2 \ RHW-4
AVE-6 \ RHW-6C
OWR-2/RHW-4 has existed in the RHW since the Version 1.2 release, 6 years ago (has it really been that long?! :o). AVE-6/RHW-6C has been taken care of as well, and all these will be in Version 2.0. The only ones I haven't taken care of yet are MIS/OWR-1, RHW-8S/OWR-4 and RHW-10S/OWR-5.
-Alex
Quote from: mrtnrln on August 09, 2011, 02:18:58 PM
^^ Disagreed with that. Costs more money to put traffic lights on both sides (like in Denmark), and it looks kinda messy. Moreover, this setup gives the same problem as with every opposite-side setups: you can still see the stoplight when you passed the stopline, which you shouldn't when it's red. This might lead to unsafe situations, with cars standing on the actual intersection, waiting for the red light...
Most of the busy intersections in my city are made the way Ivo explained and I haven't seen any traffic accidents because of that traffic light layout.
Quote from: mrtnrln on August 09, 2011, 02:18:58 PM
^^ Disagreed with that. Costs more money to put traffic lights on both sides (like in Denmark), and it looks kinda messy. Moreover, this setup gives the same problem as with every opposite-side setups: you can still see the stoplight when you passed the stopline, which you shouldn't when it's red. This might lead to unsafe situations, with cars standing on the actual intersection, waiting for the red light...
Maarten I can only say that it is extremely comfortable and not too expensive. Traffic lights on each side are synchronized and this makes for better convenience as the first line of junction and at the rear waiting to sail. Still here but in every city should wait 2-3 cycles from green to red so you can pass form and columns from a few hundred meters. My opinion is that it does not matter when it comes to security of lives.
Cheers,
Ivo
Quote
OWR-2/RHW-4 has existed in the RHW since the Version 1.2 release, 6 years ago (has it really been that long?! :o). AVE-6/RHW-6C has been taken care of as well, and all these will be in Version 2.0. The only ones I haven't taken care of yet are MIS/OWR-1, RHW-8S/OWR-4 and RHW-10S/OWR-5.
-Alex
Alex I think you're wrong this time because I use a while something like a transition between MIS-OWR1 and I can tell you that it works perfectly. Even if you do not believe I can do photos of my city where I have applied these connections.
Everything else sounds perfect.
Cheers,
Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on August 09, 2011, 02:46:22 PM
Quote
OWR-2/RHW-4 has existed in the RHW since the Version 1.2 release, 6 years ago (has it really been that long?! :o). AVE-6/RHW-6C has been taken care of as well, and all these will be in Version 2.0. The only ones I haven't taken care of yet are MIS/OWR-1, RHW-8S/OWR-4 and RHW-10S/OWR-5.
-Alex
Alex I think you're wrong this time because I use a while something like a transition between MIS-OWR1 and I can tell you that it works perfectly. Even if you do not believe I can do photos of my city where I have applied these connections.
Everything else sounds perfect.
Cheers,
Ivo
There's no draggable transition yet that I know of, but a lot of people plop the filler pieces next to each other to create the transition.
Quote
There's no draggable transition yet that I know of, but a lot of people plop the filler pieces next to each other to create the transition.
Yes you're right that is not draggable in the interest of truth is difficult and uncomfortable Dothan with Plop the pieces as I worked until now. That which you have borrowed will greatly facilitate connections between networks and we all can not wait to use it.
Ivo
Quote from: Tarkus on August 09, 2011, 02:23:39 PM
OWR-2/RHW-4 has existed in the RHW since the Version 1.2 release, 6 years ago (has it really been that long?! :o). AVE-6/RHW-6C has been taken care of as well, and all these will be in Version 2.0. The only ones I haven't taken care of yet are MIS/OWR-1, RHW-8S/OWR-4 and RHW-10S/OWR-5.
-Alex
ah figures... the one I need the most is one of the ones that havent been done yet (8S to owr4)...
Quote from: mrtnrln on August 09, 2011, 02:18:58 PM
Moreover, this setup gives the same problem as with every opposite-side setups: you can still see the stoplight when you passed the stopline, which you shouldn't when it's red. This might lead to unsafe situations, with cars standing on the actual intersection, waiting for the red light...
Cars shouldn't sit in the intersection, that's plain dumb (and it makes them liable for compensation in an accident).
Local laws usually compensate for it (if more than half of the car is over the stopline, you're committed to the manoeuvre and MUST complete it before another direction gets green, or it's a massive fine, no stopping allowed - That one's also helpful when turning Right on a congested road).
Also, having drivers who know how to stop a car before the line helps immensely. In all my years of driving, I've only ever seen three drivers cross the stopline and not complete the manoeuvre. Just because the light is on the other side doesn't mean you go over the line. No excuses.
However, we really should get back on topic.
I fell sorry for Alex. He goes like:
"I made X to A"
And other people goes
"nice but if you could make X to A with E or T?" Awesome, can you make also Q to W and E to R and T to T??" &hlp &hlp
Now, seriously, Nice work and best wishes from me about all of your works, you are amazing :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
^^ Yep, that's the burden of all of those who are in the NAM Team. Unfortunately, we can't fulfill every request...
A very heavy burden Mr. Frodo. :D
Well, it's time . . . to reveal the "secret weapon" . . .
http://www.youtube.com//v/eZhlw4Vk-a8
Enjoy. ;)
-Alex
Woo! DragTrans! :P
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mm and a really really sneak peak at the nmave-4 ......
Very nice as always. Love the new look. The previous NWM logo was very hard to reproduce, so a new one will be nicer.
!! :o !!
Spectacular work :o :o
&apls
I think the below quotes explain well everything I experienced while watching this vid ;D
Quote from: canyonjumper on August 12, 2011, 08:32:27 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forumsextreme.com%2Fimages%2FsFun_drool2.gif&hash=5b3a5488db708801104fd7b6a22a041e424583bf)
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Quote from: Kitsune on August 12, 2011, 08:43:49 PM
mm and a really really sneak peak at the nmave-4 ......
OMG!
At the risk of sounding bathetic, these draggable transitions without having to hunt for puzzle pieces will be, er, useful.
&apls &apls &apls &apls
U r great!!!!!
you should run for congress, because development like this makes the future even easier.
&apls &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls %BUd% %BUd% %BUd% %BUd% :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny: %$payas)( %$payas)(
I'll Have such fun :D
exceptional, fantastic, clever, a real well done &apls an enthusiastic slap on the collective back of the NAMTeam particularly for this nam-nwm tech advance
Well done guys &apls &apls
that secret weapon made my life... at least on the sc4 side
Pure awesomeness. ;D ;D ;D
A friend has gone a whole year since the last release cycle NAM. Yesterday I saw a video of Alex with the new weapon for NWM and I am shocked. Incredibly good idea and a great application. But I wondered about the technology that is used to create this weapon? Its purpose is to remove / pointless puzzle pieces that were used as transitions to different networks of NWM. I have some doubts that Alex has used this same technology in version 4.1 of RHW allowing construction of an extensive network of routes making them MIS, through technology dragable. So then defeat many puzzle pieces on the outcome of RHW and guess what I saw now that the technology developed in quite an advanced stage - I'm right ?
And if I'm right I guess that in the future will be introduced and the transitions between different networks RHW.
Best regards,
Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on August 14, 2011, 02:49:43 PM
A friend has gone a whole year since the last release cycle NAM. Yesterday I saw a video of Alex with the new weapon for NWM and I am shocked. Incredibly good idea and a great application. But I wondered about the technology that is used to create this weapon? Its purpose is to remove / pointless puzzle pieces that were used as transitions to different networks of NWM. I have some doubts that Alex has used this same technology in version 4.1 of RHW allowing construction of an extensive network of routes making them MIS, through technology dragable. So then defeat many puzzle pieces on the outcome of RHW and guess what I saw now that the technology developed in quite an advanced stage - I'm right ?
And if I'm right I guess that in the future will be introduced and the transitions between different networks RHW.
Best regards,
Ivo
There's actually a slight problem trying to use the same trick with the RHW, namely that the DirtRoad (RHW) network auto-connects just like the street network, so it is difficult, if not impossible in most cases, to drag two stubs end to end, the game automatically connects them up. However, Alex has another trick up his sleeve for implementing draggable RHW transitions that looks promising. ;)
Also, for those who may be wondering, the puzzle piece transitions will also remain in place in NWM 2.0, mainly as there's a handful of transitions that haven't yet gotten the draggable treatment, mainly due to their footprint posing stability difficulties.
- TLA-3-to-AVE-2 Diagonal
- TLA-3-to-ARD-3 Diagonal
- AVE-2-to-ARD-3 Diagonal
- AVE-2-to-AVE-4
- OWR-3-to-OWR-5
- AVE-4-to-AVE-6
Every other transition present in NWM 1.1 plus the new TLA-7/AVE-6 transition will be draggable in NWM 2.0.
While we're on the subject, here's the list of RHW/NWM transitions that are completed and
will be included in NWM 2.0, all draggable:
- RHW-2-to-TLA-3
- RHW-2-to-AVE-2
- RHW-2-to-ARD-3
- RHW-2-to-NMAVE-4
- RHW-4-to-TLA-5
- RHW-4-to-MAVE-4
- RHW-6S-to-OWR-3
- RHW-6S-to-MAVE-6
- RHW-6C-to-TLA-7
- RHW-6C-to-AVE-6
Adding those RHW transitions to the 27 listed at the end of the "secret weapon" video, that makes for a solid 35 draggable transitions.
-Alex
Excellent. :) The RHW transitions will be especially useful when it comes to interchanges.
Already no one doubt that there remain a few days to a new release cycle NAM products. But I began to wonder what happens to the AVE-8 and TLA-9 that will be part of NWM 2.0 I saw pictures of someone they already exist and are relatively stable. For this I ask whether it is possible at an interval of a month or two after the onset of NWM 2.0 to be released and a small example a 2.1 version that includes these two networks (AVE-6 and TLA-9). It would be great we can handle them even if they do not have full support to the other networks even if they are able only to ortogonal intersections.
Best regards,
Ivo
They are relatively far along--as are the asymmetrical "hybrid" networks, the TLA-8 and AVE-7. The main reason they aren't in NWM 2.0 was because there were just so many paths to get in place, that I figured it would be better to spend my energy on other aspects of the NWM for the time being, and come back to them later.
I have looked at the possibility of an "NWM Version 2.1", though we're not quite to the point of discussing future release cycles beyond the NAM Version 30/RHW Version 5.0/NWM Version 2.0. Once we get those out, then we'll get down to business on that front. :)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 15, 2011, 02:46:23 PM
They are relatively far along--as are the asymmetrical "hybrid" networks, the TLA-8 and AVE-7. The main reason they aren't in NWM 2.0 was because there were just so many paths to get in place, that I figured it would be better to spend my energy on other aspects of the NWM for the time being, and come back to them later.
I have looked at the possibility of an "NWM Version 2.1", though we're not quite to the point of discussing future release cycles beyond the NAM Version 30/RHW Version 5.0/NWM Version 2.0. Once we get those out, then we'll get down to business on that front. :)
-Alex
My question was directed to see if there might be a new smaller version of NWM or will have a volume versich which again will be a new release cycle to be consistent with other projects of the NAM.
Cheers,
Ivo
no 8s to owr-4 ? aww, I needed that piece.
I must say that this is brilliant. Its like you are reading my mind to what I need. :P
Cant wait for more.
Quote from: ivo_su on August 15, 2011, 03:00:56 PM
My question was directed to see if there might be a new smaller version of NWM or will have a volume versich which again will be a new release cycle to be consistent with other projects of the NAM.
It's certainly within the realm of possibility. I think a lot of us on the NAM Team would like to go to a smaller/more frequent cycle, but logistically, we'd have to work things out and plan development out more. The RHW and NWM did both have ".1" releases (4.1 and 1.1, respectively), so there's certainly a chance, though we've never made it past a ".2" (RHW 3.2, which by today's standards would be a ".1") before development snowballs to the point at which we end up with a long ".0" cycle. :D
Quote from: Kitsune on August 15, 2011, 04:07:44 PM
no 8s to owr-4 ? aww, I needed that piece.
Most likely not, though it's at the top of the list of stuff to add for the release after Version 2.0.
-Alex
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.tinypic.com%2F346szmv.jpg&hash=8e25584d1fcdf05db3f6ff2c9b0688a390ebfd9f)
I cant seem to get the mis in the right direction over the OWR-4. Will there be a fix for this.
Quote from: sitejunction on August 18, 2011, 09:45:40 AM
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I cant seem to get the mis in the right direction over the OWR-4. Will there be a fix for this.
Have you tried rotating using the Home/End keys? You might also have to destroy a small section of OWR-4 for it to work.
Quote from: jacksunny on August 18, 2011, 10:22:59 AM
Quote from: sitejunction on August 18, 2011, 09:45:40 AM
I cant seem to get the mis in the right direction over the OWR-4. Will there be a fix for this.
Have you tried rotating using the Home/End keys? You might also have to destroy a small section of OWR-4 for it to work.
It's not a starter piece issue, so rotating pieces is not really relevant to the situation. The problem appears to be a RUL2 override that's flipping the OWR-4 the wrong way. It's probably a stability RUL issue caused by the situation in which the EMIS is next to the ERHW-4. I'll take a look over it. In the meanwhile, try clicking over it to see if it'll flip back the correct way.
-Alex
Thanks. I've tried clicking 2 or 3 tiles to the left of problem piece, It worked.
Hi everyone.
I was wondering if there were any plans for a OWR-3 -> OWR-1 + OWR-2 splitter, with the OWR-1 on the left hand side (in RHD countries). Something like this would be great for making freeway service roads, like this one:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dallas+tx&hl=en&ll=32.823055,-96.785297&spn=0.001422,0.00284&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=43.713406,93.076172&vpsrc=6&t=k&z=19
I see that there will definitely be a OWR-4 -> OWR-2 + OWR-2 splitter. This will be wonderful once we see additional elevated RHW networks in the next release.
I also anxiously await the wider avenues. My cities are in need of some big surface streets!
You guys do great work, thanks for all your effort in this project for us fans.
Quote from: itsacoaster on August 19, 2011, 07:11:44 PM
I was wondering if there were any plans for a OWR-3 -> OWR-1 + OWR-2 splitter, with the OWR-1 on the left hand side (in RHD countries). Something like this would be great for making freeway service roads, like this one:
Right now, the only OWR splitter being incorporated into NWM v2 is the OWR-4 to dual OWR-2.
What you brought up, however, could use MIS Ramps that connect directly to OWR instead (Which would be more fitting and somewhat more compact, in my opinion). Frontage Road Ramps aren't currently planned, either, let alone created yet.
Quote from: itsacoaster on August 19, 2011, 07:11:44 PM
You guys do great work, thanks for all your effort in this project for us fans.
:)
Not to interrupt the thread, but over in the SAM thread this summer, there was discussion about the idea (Alex?) of a stAVE-2, where street or SAM textures could supplant the road textures in the NWM. Someone also mentioned off-street (angled?) parking stripes or parked vehicle T21's. Us 19th century town platters really want to know... are we gonna have dirty avenues? Pipe dream or possibility?
Quote from: dwelln8hss32 on August 30, 2011, 01:13:09 PM
Not to interrupt the thread, but over in the SAM thread this summer, there was discussion about the idea (Alex?) of a stAVE-2, where street or SAM textures could supplant the road textures in the NWM. Someone also mentioned off-street (angled?) parking stripes or parked vehicle T21's. Us 19th century town platters really want to know... are we gonna have dirty avenues? Pipe dream or possibility?
First of all, it wasn't even Alex who brought up the idea of a StAVE-2; It was Twyla, but myself and others dubbed it the StAVE-2. It would be an NWM addition to the Street network, just like one-way streets, but none of those are being planned anytime soon.
Additionally, "dirty AVEs" and parking T21s are aesthetic modifications that would naturally be out of the scope of the NAM itself. In other words, it's possible, but it won't be a part of the NAM's files, it would be a third-party plugin.
Thanks for the clarification, Ganaram. I didn't mean to reference the wrong individuals--Twyla had a great idea, and I like your name. :-[ I can see how "dirty AVEs" would be out of the NAM's scope, but it couldn't hurt to ask. I may need to do some serious digging on modding, as my creative directions evidently fall outside of this as well! ;)
Best,
Jake
Any chance of concrete texture variations for the wider NWM networks?
Around where I live, there is a major road that is the equivilent of an AVE-6 that is paved in concrete.
(State Street, Utah, It goes through several cities.)
We won't be "SAMing" the NWM to produce additional variants of the networks with different road surfaces, but concrete NWM textures as a texture replacement mod certainly aren't out of the question.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 30, 2011, 08:00:59 PM
We won't be "SAMing" the NWM to produce additional variants of the networks with different road surfaces
You mean there won't be a gravel TLA-5? My hopes and dreams are crushed. ::)
Quote from: itsacoaster on September 01, 2011, 09:17:06 AM
You mean there won't be a gravel TLA-5? My hopes and dreams are crushed. ::)
If you mean a gravel TLA-5 alongside the default TLA-5, then no. If you just want a texture variation that replaces the default TLA-5's textures, then I wouldn't want to declare your dreams crushed just yet...
Why on earth would you want gravel TLA 5 anyways?
Perhaps these are the only people in the U.S.. I have spoken with many people and most believe that the existence of TLA networks is absolutely pointless. However, these networks a non-existent here in Europe, but 300 million are fully justified and useful for what we we can not judge them. I personally would not use them aech bo entitled to make his own choices.
Best regards,
- Ivo
speaking of TLA's .... are Canadian textures on the horizon? Also, I've noticed the no-owr arrows checkbox in the nam does not actually from them from the nwm owr's, will this be fixed too?
So retexturing a TLA-3 or TLA-5 for dirt... would this be possible? I know it sounds strange, but many early towns with wide dirt avenues actually used these, before widespread introduction of rock or paved avenues. It would be great to introduce these in the game as well someday. I would live to learn how to make such a mod, but haven't even seen the iLive Reader, Path Creator, so forth.
Quote from: dwelln8hss32 on September 01, 2011, 03:23:54 PM
So retexturing a TLA-3 or TLA-5 for dirt... would this be possible?
These things are more than possible; It doesn't require much other than knowing which texture is which, and if you play your cards right, all you'll need to use is the Batch PNG to FSH program and some sort of image-manipulating program other than Microsoft Paint.
It's just that most of the existing texture packs out there, other than some SAM-related ones, either retrofit the game's in-game textures (NAM RCM) or make them like those of another country's road markings (Euro textures), so no one might expect that roads made from something other than concrete or asphalt might be possible.
-----
There was a recent discussion about a similar topic over at the RHW thread, so instead of clogging two threads about the same thing, I'll try to find the tutorial for textures...
Found it: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4140.0 Though on the part where it says to use the SC4Tool to import your textures into a DAT, don't follow that. Use the Batch PNG to FSH tool for that; It's much faster.
The gravel TLA-5 comment was a joke, I'm pretty sure. Hence the eye-rolling emoticon... and the general ridiculousness too. ;)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 01, 2011, 04:17:05 PM
Quote from: dwelln8hss32 on September 01, 2011, 03:23:54 PM
So retexturing a TLA-3 or TLA-5 for dirt... would this be possible?
These things are more than possible; It doesn't require much other than knowing which texture is which, and if you play your cards right, all you'll need to use is the Batch PNG to FSH program and some sort of image-manipulating program other than Microsoft Paint.
It's just that most of the existing texture packs out there, other than some SAM-related ones, either retrofit the game's in-game textures (NAM RCM) or make them like those of another country's road markings (Euro textures), so no one might expect that roads made from something other than concrete or asphalt might be possible.
-----
There was a recent discussion about a similar topic over at the RHW thread, so instead of clogging two threads about the same thing, I'll try to find the tutorial for textures...
Found it: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=4140.0 Though on the part where it says to use the SC4Tool to import your textures into a DAT, don't follow that. Use the Batch PNG to FSH tool for that; It's much faster.
Actually, for me making texture is not as difficult as the process of painting them. Generally I use the first MS Pine and then just delete the unnecessary layer in GIMP to gain transparent film and I can overlay textures. What is really driving me crazy painting canvases and place of paths. Really very difficult to achieve this synchronization in shades of gray and black are used for roads. If anyone has free time and displayed in the video how paint texture will be very useful to me.
Perfect, Ganaram. Thanks for your advice, and for the link... very encouraging!
Quote from: Kitsune on September 01, 2011, 03:06:43 PM
speaking of TLA's .... are Canadian textures on the horizon?
No. But there's nothing stopping anyone else from creating them ;)
CAN SOM1 PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW TO MAKE NEIGHBORHOOD CONNECTION WITH ONE WAY STREETS PLEASE. I DONT COME HERE ALOT SO PLEASE SEND ME A MAIL AT TSRQP@SBCGLOBAL.NET 2
NCs with One Way Road is not possible due to game limitations. The network is disallowed from making neighbour connections.
And streets?
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 05, 2011, 10:38:27 PM
And streets?
Streets, like OWRs, can't make neighbor connections on their own. However, you CAN force the game into making a Street NC.
It uses a technique similar to j-dub's pre-RHW NCP tutorial, but Metarvo made a highly descriptive tutorial for it. http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7350.msg232470#msg232470
Quote from: jgehrts on September 01, 2011, 05:12:26 PM
The gravel TLA-5 comment was a joke, I'm pretty sure. Hence the eye-rolling emoticon... and the general ridiculousness too. ;)
Hehe, yep. :D Sorry if I derailed the thread at all, but it's hard for me to resist a one-liner like that.
I'm one of the 300 million in the USA who use TLAs, and I like them a whole lot. They are used to relieve congestion caused by left-turning cars yielding to oncoming traffic, by moving left-turning traffic into the shared turn lane. My hometown (pop. 48,000) has miles of both TLA-3s and TLA-5s. They seem to work quite well for us. I very much appreciate their inclusion in NWM.
itsacoaster town where I was born is also a population of around 48,000 and I can tell you that there was not seen to have congestion in the absence of TLA. Now here in Sofia (1.5 million) a major cause of congestion is traffic lights and parked cars to sidewalks that take 1-2 strips of sails. From personal observations, I have found that relieving the most traffic are:
- Intersections on many levels, with no stop points
- Underground and surface parking in many places
- Wide boulevards with more lanes of 6-8
But 100 percent TLA must exist and they have a place in Sim City 4 because in the U.S. is the largest group of people who play this game and you should be happy. And those like me who do not like these networks, we are extremely easy - simply will not use them.
Best regards,
Ivo
Quote from: itsacoaster on September 06, 2011, 05:17:06 PM
I'm one of the 300 million in the USA who use TLAs, and I like them a whole lot.
A couple things:
- It's now 310 million, and I'm also one of them. :)
- There's three (technically four) notable TLAs in my town as well, and one of them's a TLA-4.
- The Turn-Lane Avenue network was implemented because the default Avenue (AVE-4) wouldn't allow zone access across its full width; If you were on the right side of the AVE and had to access something on the left side, you'd have to find a place to make a U-turn to do so. (If you also look at how the TLA-5 is pathed, it allows you to make a left exit from a building without having to go right and make a U-turn.)
- I believe Canada also has these things as well, but if I recall, their median is inside-out compared to the US, right?
- I personally find it great to embrace EVERY type of NWM network available. Really boosts the realism factor (Considering there's a few MAVE-4's in my town as well).
Quote from: ivo_su on September 06, 2011, 05:40:34 PM
But 100 percent TLA must exist and they have a place in Sim City 4 because in the U.S. is the largest group of people who play this game and you should be happy.
I wouldn't say 100% of TLA users are in the US, at most a good majority; There's TLAs in Canada (a neighbour to the US), and you have to account for that one curious Euro-themed user out there who wants to "Americanise" their city. (That's why I, as an American-themed user, tried Euro textures once.)
Who was saying you don't find TLA's in europe?
TLA-5: http://g.co/maps/srm6g
TLA-3: http://g.co/maps/8fa6b
but in the UK you cannot use them in the same way at US TLA's, as it's still a single carriageway you cannot wait in the middle lane when right on to the TLA (although the other day i did drive past someone doing that on the TLA-5 there). It's actually really common to see bits of TLA-3 in the UK, a lot of roads built from the 1930s right up to the 1970s were single carriageways with 3 lanes the middle one being for overtaking only (suicide lane setup), with there poor safety record for head on collisions the middle lanes have mainly had hatching painted on them, however it's still legal to overtake on them (just watch out for the traffic islands now in a lot of them).
John
I wouldn't quite go ahead and call this a TLA. It's more likely a drawn median of some sorts. At least the markings suggest this interpretation, as you clearly see that the limits within you're allowed to drive are dedicated intersection-type turning lanes while all other parts are prohibited area.
It has some TLA-ish appearence cuz it goes all the way along the center of the road and has the width of a lane all the way.
I see where your idea comes from, but like I said, I wouldn't call it a TLA as these implement the use of a "suicide lane" like in the US or Canada.
Quote from: jibjohn on September 07, 2011, 09:11:00 AM
Who was saying you don't find TLA's in europe?
TLA-5: http://g.co/maps/srm6g
TLA-3: http://g.co/maps/8fa6b
but in the UK you cannot use them in the same way at US TLA's, as it's still a single carriageway you cannot wait in the middle lane when right on to the TLA (although the other day i did drive past someone doing that on the TLA-5 there). It's actually really common to see bits of TLA-3 in the UK, a lot of roads built from the 1930s right up to the 1970s were single carriageways with 3 lanes the middle one being for overtaking only (suicide lane setup), with there poor safety record for head on collisions the middle lanes have mainly had hatching painted on them, however it's still legal to overtake on them (just watch out for the traffic islands now in a lot of them).
John
Again, the UK is an oddball here. You don't see simillar setups like these on the European mainland. The closest you can get there is this (location: Belgium)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NBApDO0uU34/TKYorKAbmeI/AAAAAAAAFvg/fee167yhjq0/s640/100_1038.JPG)
But also these roads are rare outside Belgium.
Best,
Maarten
Quote from: GMT on September 07, 2011, 10:07:56 AM
all other parts are prohibited area.
in the highway code (UK road law) you may enter this area "if it is safe to do so" (as the outside lines are broken), if the lines on the outside were solid you would not be allowed to enter it "you MUST NOT cross a solid line".
There is also some kind of a TLA-3 in Germany, although it's rather some kind of a row of many left-turning lanes than a 3-lane-street:
http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ll=50.986276,7.846577&spn=0.000903,0.002642&t=h&z=19&vpsrc=6
Quote
"you MUST NOT cross a solid line".
There are so many complications I have seen in the US, from a visiting motorists perspective. Even though, the yellow solid was made for that, you look back on how they made the outside lines of the TLA solid, where as Canada does not solidify that same outer line. Basically, oddities are all around the world. I also notice they repaint intersections, and forget to break the lines up, while the NWM displays the US having a double yellow line on the ARD, I have dealt with one for a long time since that still does not have that solid line, and instead has split lines both directions, one is just white, while the other is yellow.
Another compromised set of rules, your not supposed to change lanes in the middle of an intersection, but then your not supposed to really go straight thru the crossing in the turn lane, so which is it? Sometimes there will be turn lanes where you turn at the next intersection, not the one your at. Sometimes they crosshatch turn lanes out for driveways, or they make one long 2 block continuing one, but because of this, you do not know until its too late. Now, the difficult thing is in the US, its not a federal offense to cross the solid white line, you just can not do it that it cut others off, but other communities may say otherwise to that. Of course, the law could of changed by now, I'm just going by the books my state has on this center turn lane stuff. Attached is an example of a turn lane that goes into a commercial area, but not the main intersection. I have to deal with this in reality, and cars changing either lanes at the last minute.
I used Euro textures for years. I only switched because some NAM components didn't work with them well, and they were outdated, and I couldn't see those darned MIS directions.
Quote from: j-dub on September 07, 2011, 08:57:10 PM
Quote
"you MUST NOT cross a solid line".
Another compromised set of rules, your not supposed to change lanes in the middle of an intersection, but then your not supposed to really go straight thru the crossing in the turn lane, so which is it? Sometimes there will be turn lanes where you turn at the next intersection, not the one your at. Sometimes they crosshatch turn lanes out for driveways, or they make one long 2 block continuing one, but because of this, you do not know until its too late. Now, the difficult thing is in the US, its not a federal offense to cross the solid white line, you just can not do it that it cut others off, but other communities may say otherwise to that. Of course, the law could of changed by now, I'm just going by the books my state has on this center turn lane stuff. Attached is an example of a turn lane that goes into a commercial area, but not the main intersection. I have to deal with this in reality, and cars changing either lanes at the last minute.
All 50 states are required to conform to federal standards for both street signs and road markings - it would be impossible to drive cross country if every state used their own standards. There are a few things like making a right turn at a red light, or a left turn from a OWR to another OWR at a red light that each state has its own laws on though.
solid white lines are "cross with caution." usualy used approaching a large intersection to control traffic weaving
dotted white lines are typical lane markings
Solid double yellow lines are never crossed, for any reason
solid yellow next to dotted yellow is means the lane next to the dotted line may go left of center to pass
double dotted yellow means that either side can go left of center to pass
AVE-3 and AVE-5 are very common and a huge help. I remember when they started using them in my home town. I made a massive difference in traffic congestion. You are never allowed to cross an intersection in a center lane. You are never allowed to drive continously in the center lane. You are never allowed to pass in a center lane. You are not allowed to turn into the center lane - they are only for turning out of, this law is very often ignored though.
There are federal standards that require lane marking signs be posted within specific distances of intersection that have dedicated turn lanes. Some communities ignore the requirement because they are unsightly. During heavy traffic hours the signs are often not much help because the traffic is backed up past the sign.
In short centerlane avenues are a blessing, the inside lanes move at a steady pace, people turning left don't stop traffic, and buses can drive down the right lane without interfering with traffic flow.
Or, instead of adding a dedicated Left Turn Lane, do what they do here, disallow left turns into driveways (Continue the double unbroken) or give the road useable shoulders. Simple.
It should be no surprise, since I'm in the U.S. after all, but I'm sure I have encountered every NWM network currently available at one time or another and then some. With my state's recent dissolution of separate night speed limits, the "TLRHW-5" I mentioned earlier is now 70 mph 24 hours a day. This is not to say that TLA-type networks are the only wider networks built here, though. TLA-5's are a way of life around here, although some have been converted to AVE-4's (complete with the medians) for safety reasons. Of course, this annoys would-be left-turning traffic to no end.
Speaking of left turns, there are in fact some roads here that allow left turns on certain days/times and disallow them at others. These are usually MAVE-4's without left turn lanes, as opposed to TLA-5's.
Quote from: jdenm8 on September 08, 2011, 12:48:16 AM
Or, instead of adding a dedicated Left Turn Lane, do what they do here, disallow left turns into driveways (Continue the double unbroken) or give the road useable shoulders. Simple.
This is bad for commerce in the typical urban setting.
We have two basic types of avenue arround here. The most common are the TLA-5's. These run through residential neighborhoods and they are lined with small shops, small malls, and small appartment buildings. Virtualy all commuters use these in their home neighborhoods. They move huge ammounts of traffic every day, and have the benifit of being lined with shops so you can run errends on the way home.
The other types are massive 6 to 10 lane wide limited access highway. Access is gained at traffic lights, and they have service roads that run along side them. These are lined with large shops, malls, and large appartment complexes. Everyone avoids them as much as possible since the traffic on them always sucks.
The TLA-5's actualy move better because they are all 35mph. Folks try to make last minute multiple lane changes on the bigger roads and cause all sorts of chaos at high speed.
We also of course have Maxis style freeways. The RHW extended ramps are almost never seen in urban areas, you see some of it in the suburbs though (where its not really needed). Arround here, you accelerate hard down the ramp and merge, otherwise you get forced off at the next exit. Each entrance ramp turns into the exit ramp for the next exit - and they are packed one ontop of the next. It can suck when there is an accident.
^^ Here in the Netherlands it's totally unlike that. In my home town Zoetermeer, the city ring road, which is a limited access avenue, actually can handle large amounts of traffic with no problem (and has a speed limit of 70 km/h instead of 50 km/h). Only problem are the left turn lanes to access the freeway A12.
If you look at the roads in Den Haag (The Hauge), most of them are full-access roads, and it's a pain driving through that city. Hell, it's even hard to get into the city itself during rush hour; the freeway A12, which leads right to the city center, is often clogged up for miles/kilometers (depending on what unit system you use :P). That, even when Den Haag has a two central train stations and lots of tram lines (where a few lines lead to neighbouring cities)!
Quote from: joshua43214 on September 08, 2011, 02:32:33 PM
We also of course have Maxis style freeways. The RHW extended ramps are almost never seen in urban areas, you see some of it in the suburbs though (where its not really needed). Arround here, you accelerate hard down the ramp and merge, otherwise you get forced off at the next exit. Each entrance ramp turns into the exit ramp for the next exit - and they are packed one ontop of the next. It can suck when there is an accident.
Don't know what you mean here with "RHW extended ramps". But I think you are talking about weaving acceleration/decelleration lanes. And weaving sections, especially short ones, are not good for traffic flow...
Best,
Maarten
So I'm guessing but is the lack of sticky posts with presentation a sign of an early christmas? =D &apls
Quote from: strucka on September 09, 2011, 01:07:51 PM
So I'm guessing but is the lack of sticky posts with presentation a sign of an early christmas? =D &apls
If you mean the posts that used to show up on top of every page in the different NAM threads, I think they're not there anymore because of the new forum software. But rest assured, the release is "imminent", whatever that means. :P
Quote from: mrtnrln on September 08, 2011, 02:52:49 PM
Don't know what you mean here with "RHW extended ramps". But I think you are talking about weaving acceleration/decelleration lanes. And weaving sections, especially short ones, are not good for traffic flow...
lol, not good for the faint of heart more like...
It really is all about compromise. When they rebuilt the downtown freeway system here 20 years ago, they took out several interchanges and replaced some of the other interchanges got longer ramps. It helped the freeway traffic alot. It made downtown traffic 10 times worse. They are just now finishing up the project to put some of the interchanges back in.
Urban freeways are meant to carry people into urban areas where they work, live, shop. If you have fewer interchanges, those interchanges become massive bottlenecks, and can affect traffic on the city streets for many blocks as traffic tries to enter or exit the freeway. Many people just drove through downtown streets until they reached the medium density areas surrounding it before they got on the freeway. The overall traffic is actualy better if there are more interchages since it spreads the street load out more evenly.
My city is also a bit unusual in that an extremely large percentage of the commuters commute from the mid wealth North-East subburbs, to the high wealth North-West subburbs (a number of international busineses are headquartered there) and they have to commute down the outerbelt. There are two massive multilane intechanges in the North-West, that both dump onto huge 10 lane wide avenues. The traffic backs up every morning for 5 to 6 miles. Far enough back that it often interferes with southbound traffic on one of the crosstown freeways meant to feed downtown. The whole thing is a massive mess, and one accident in the midst of it can leave your stuck for hours. I used to make the drive everyday to work, and it was exhausting.
The North-East subburbs on the other hand have 5 interchanges over about the same distance, and traffic there moves along just fine.
I guese the point I am trying to make is, that designing freeways to minimize weaving takes up alot of space. This means fewer interchanges, and produces horrible urban traffic. On the other hand, putting less emphasis on freeway traffic, and more on street traffic gives a compromise where everybody is moving, and there are fewer bottlenecks.
I have just discovered a TLA3 in Germany, more exact at Dorfen, Bavaria, where there is a red-painted lane thats dedicated to leftturns on B15. I couldnt take aa photo but you can see it in google maps
*Opens Google Maps and searches location
You mean this?
http://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Dorfen,+Bavaria&hl=nl&ll=48.268717,12.155187&spn=0.000987,0.002642&sll=52.469397,5.509644&sspn=3.701232,10.821533&vpsrc=6&t=k&z=19
Well, at least it's an odd section of road. I think it's unique in it's kind.
It's here at long last! Network Widening Mod Version 2.0 has been released!
- Three new networks have been added, including the triple-tile 6-lane Avenue and 7-lane Turning Lane Avenue, plus the single-tile 4-lane Narrow Medianless Avenue
- Draggable transition functionality, allowing easier connections with default networks, other NWM networks, and networks in the RealHighway addon (downloaded separately).
- Basic diagonal and curving functionality for dual-tile and triple-tile networks (note: this does not include intersections).
- Numerous new T-intersections, including dual-tile networks ending at single-tile networks.
- Limited support for diagonal intersections on single-tile networks--this functionality is still experimental and offered on an "as-is" basis.
You can pick it up here:
Network Widening Mod Version 2.0 for Windows (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2376)Network Widening Mod Version 2.0 for Mac (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2377)And you'll need NAM Version 30 (includes NAM Essentials r132):
NAM Version 30 with Essentials r132 for Windows (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=851)NAM Version 30 with Essentials r132 for MacOS (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=852)Enjoy!
-Alex
Thank youuuu :D &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls
To bad I'm feeling sick right now... Would start playing with it immediately otherwise. Fortunately, there is always Monday! Thank you very much!
Regards,
Korot
Thank-you NAM-guys... &apls &apls &apls shining new toys to play with is always a good thing :D
I Love You Alex and all of the NAM team
AVE - 6 is here &apls &hlp &hlp
Awesome! :thumbsup: Can't wait to check out all the new possibilities and looks.
You guys rock &apls
Fabian
Awesome! Along with the RHW, the NWM is the best NAM addon, and its just been made 100x better! ;D ;D
A big thanks to the entire NAM team. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
To anyone who ever dreamed about building 3-tile wide roads in SC4, now you can. What's next, 4 tiles? :P
Amazing to hear NWM 2.0 is out. I always like it when the second version of a mod is out because its like building a tower on a firm base.
Great job guys.
-Ryan (Haljackey)
As some people have had trouble finding the new transitions, I've made a short video tutorial for DragTrans.
http://www.youtube.com//v/Fz8atMjbFmE
Very impressive video and that is my favourite game song. ;)
Robin &apls
Great work on NWM 2.0!!! :thumbsup:
Also nice and useful video, jdenm8...
How do I get the trees on the medians in the AVE 6?
Quote from: CityMaster563 on September 16, 2011, 11:56:30 AM
How do I get the trees on the medians in the AVE 6?
If you've seen Tarkus's or my pictures of AVE-6's with trees in the middle, take note that those were T21 experiments. By default, the AVE-6 and AVE-2 has no trees in the median.
&bis& Allelujaaaaa!!! &bis&
&dance &dance &dance &dance &dance &dance
Please someone makes T21 for AVE-6!!
To all Mac user: OS X Lion doesn't support PowerPC Apps, so SimCity 4 doesn't run!!
There's a patch, but it's an open build and it's full of bugs.
Wow, I have been playing around with the new networks in the NWM now and it's been a huge improvement to my city. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that the three major NAM mods had been updated. Thanks, NAM team! &apls
Just for future video reference:
http://www.youtube.com/v/uyzNiV6xXGM
http://www.youtube.com/v/mogBoTJTu4M
can the nmave transition with any of the four lane dual tile networks? Also.. mm any plans for a nmave-8? As in 8 lanes on two tiles .....
Quote from: Kitsune on September 17, 2011, 04:23:41 PM
can the nmave transition with any of the four lane dual tile networks? Also.. mm any plans for a nmave-8? As in 8 lanes on two tiles .....
The NMAVE-4 currently can't transition to any other network other than Road (MAVE-2). Also, a two-tile MAVE-8 isn't being considered.
Either the 3 following transitions are missing or I am not able to drag them properly trying whatever option comes to mind:
RHW6C to AVE-6 only works when using AVE-6 as a "starter piece" for RHW-6C, the other way around AVE-6 turns into TLA-7
No OWR-3 to OWR-5 whatsoever
No MAVE-4 to Dual OWR-2 split
While the 1st one might be a matter of technique, I'm still wondering about the 2nd and 3rd because tarkus announced these prior to the release
EDIT: nevermind the latter 2, I guess I should learn how to read "$Deal"$
1. This is true. You can only make a AVE-6 to RHW-6C transistion starting with an AVE-6. Personally I would like to have it the other way around.
2. I never heard of such a transistion.
3. Don't know if there is one there, but MAVE-4 to AVE-4 is draggable now, so you can use that as a workaround.
as for the OWR3-OWR5 transition, I must correct myself, it was said to remain ploppable only, sorry.
The MAVE4-Dual OWR-2 split was my bad aswell, it says OWR4-Dual OWR2...
oh boy I guess I should get some sleep :-[
Heh,... The lights line up perfectly.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg585.imageshack.us%2Fimg585%2F1386%2Fcaptureave6lights.jpg&hash=efa5c224509a43dea6572461a7bd22985ca53545)
It's my T21 experiment that I'm planning on releasing as a separate addon. Good idea?
Why not? I may not pounce at it, but it looks Maxis consistent. In my reality though, if anything I am used to seeing lights in the middle and trees, but they may not spend that much money to cover the median with all those plants the way Maxis portrays the avenue.
However, this looks only like one zone type. Looking at the commercial, industrial zones, and different wealth levels rendering different props, no rush.
For me, an alternate layout for the lamp posts is the best choice.
Looks great GDO29Anagram! &apls I agree with vinlabsc3k about alternating lights though.
A couple notes for those who commented on my AVE-6 median exemplar:
- I'm only working on the median, so the lights on the side are actually what the NWM comes with, and are essential for the TLA-7. I wouldn't mess with that right now.
- I went with the Medium-Wealth props, because they're "wealth-neutral", akin to the grassy parts found on most TuLEP pieces.
- So far, positive feedback. :)
- I also have a non-light version of this planned. I also found another flora prop: The Med/High-Density Commercial Props. Once I find the IIDs for those, I'll try those out, because so far, I only have the medium-wealth residential props. Right now, I'll focus on just the residential flora.
- How about one where I just have the lights? &idea
- These are currently orthogonal-only. I've yet to find the diagonal lights, and there are no diagonal flora props, as far as I know.
Yeah they look good!
As far as lighting goes, I have found mrtnrln's models, particularly the most recent set to compliment the AVE6 well. Would some of these be able to be incorporated through some means?
Personally, the AVE 6 works really well for routes running into town through inner city areas....really creates a inter-urban feel!
Quote from: wallasey on September 18, 2011, 02:51:58 PM
As far as lighting goes, I have found mrtnrln's models, particularly the most recent set to compliment the AVE6 well. Would some of these be able to be incorporated through some means?
One key thing to remember: It's theoretically possible to T21 any prop onto any network, even puzzle pieces. For my T21, I'm just using the Maxis props to retain the Maxis feel while also having it dependency-free. It doesn't mean that someone won't be able to make a different T21 using different props, or in your case, lights. (Aligning them is a different story...)
I've noticed that the OWR-5 diagonals don't work, even though they were advertised in the Readme. Whenever I drag out the OWR-5 using the method described in the Readme, it reverts to two OWR-2s immediately after the curve. This is quite similar to the problem the RHW-8S dragabble diagonals had in RHW 4.0.
Try dragging 2 OWRs in a row in a diagonal right next to each other, then connect it with the stater piece.
Quote from: ps2owner on September 18, 2011, 05:35:45 PM
Try dragging 2 OWRs in a row in a diagonal right next to each other, then connect it with the stater piece.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg692.imageshack.us%2Fimg692%2F2212%2Fnwmnoowr5diag.jpg&hash=b73a3c2fe9db11c29092a293e8792b38b0118ba9)
I tried it that way, but no dice.
Quote from: metarvo on September 18, 2011, 06:18:47 PM
I tried it that way, but no dice.
It's on a split tile setup (the one shown on the left) rather than the shared tile setup (as seen on the left, which is the method for constructing OWR-4 diagonals). The only thing I could think of--are you by chance using the OWR Arrow Reduction Plugin from the NAM? If so, it changes the IIDs for One-Way Road orthogonal and diagonal pieces, and there does not appear to be code in place to override the OWR ARP Diagonals for the OWR-5 diagonals.
-Alex
Yes, I was using the ARP at the time. I've removed it, and the diagonal OWR-5s work perfectly now. Thanks! :thumbsup:
I'm not sure if somebody already reported this already but the AVE-6 & TLA-7 Networks don't like it when you make them the end of a T-Junction:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi304.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn179%2FCahos_Rahne_Veloza%2Fnwm.jpg&hash=bda31ab808e807591538c91725bfb1f2cc662e72)
This also happens with one-way roads, streets & avenues. Haven't yet tried with interface with fellow NWM Networks yet, but will do in a few minutes.
Quote from: CahosRahneVeloza on September 18, 2011, 07:16:12 PM
I'm not sure if somebody already reported this already but the AVE-6 & TLA-7 Networks don't like it when you make them the end of a T-
That's because they're not supposed to, especially with two-lane networks. (Have you ever seen three lanes of traffic have to end at such a bottleneck? That's three lanes diverging off into two, so where does the third one go?)
And with the case with the AVE-4, an AVE-6 could theoretically end at a T with an AVE-4, but apparently it's not supported by the RULs.
Quote from: CahosRahneVeloza on September 18, 2011, 07:16:12 PM
This also happens with one-way roads, streets & avenues. Haven't yet tried with interface with fellow NWM Networks yet, but will do in a few minutes.
It won't work with any single-tile networks (see GDO29Anagram's comment above for the explanation, though theoretically, ARD-3, OWR-3 and NMAVE-4 could make sense), but dual-tile and triple-tile NWM networks will work in that situation.
-Alex
@Tarkus & GDO29Anagram: I guess my citizens would kill me if I did make an intentional choke point like that $%Grinno$%
Thanks for the explanation :)
Beam me up Scotty!
Not sure what is going on here.. My sims have found a new method of transportation.. teleporting!! ()borg()
posting here cos it only happens with the MWM roads, using the standard medium transit simulator.. any ideas chaps?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi261.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii64%2Fkanphoto%2FSimCity4%2520CJ%2FStMarie-16Jul1061316401458.png&hash=5e74c4c5d4361aa2eb306905ab857181cdc046d9)
That typically happens when the MAVE-6 network is being used. From what our research has found thus far, it's more of a graphical oddity than an actual problem. Your commuters, in all likelihood, are not actually "teleporting".
-Alex
Thanks.. i figured it was just a graphic hiccup as nobody was quitting work or getting lost.. but i thoight i better post it anyhoo.. just looks confuzzling!
Anyways.. great job on all the recent projects :thumbsup:
Hey, I just realized that on jdenm8 & j-dub's NWM Tutorial videos their road sections both have Cul-de sacs at the roads' ends. Is that due to the NAM Cosmetic retexture mod for NAM29or is it from another cul-de sacs mod?
Quote from: CahosRahneVeloza on September 18, 2011, 09:54:58 PM
Hey, I just realized that on jdenm8 & j-dub's NWM Tutorial videos their road sections both have Cul-de sacs at the roads' ends. Is that due to the NAM Cosmetic retexture mod for NAM29or is it from another cul-de sacs mod?
That's the NAM Cosmetic Retexture Mod Cul-De-Sacs there in those videos.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on September 18, 2011, 10:09:08 PM
That's the NAM Cosmetic Retexture Mod Cul-De-Sacs there in those videos.
-Alex
Thanks Tarkus, I really thought with the newer NAM30 that mod would no longer be supported. I better re-install it then :)
I ran into the same issue with creating MAVE-4 diagonals. I should try the shared-tile setup next time.
Is the NWM 2.0 work with Euro Road Texture mod that work for NWM v 1.1?
For the most part, yes.
All functionality that was present in NWM v1.1 will still show the euro textures.
The new content (Dual-Tile network curves and diagonals, triple tile networks, so on) however will not.
got a queshtshion... :P
Nah seriously, yesterday I did the drawpaths thingy for the fun of it and realized something weird around MAVE-6:
at the outer edges of every MAVE-6 I have, there's some sort of wedges flashing alternating red and white, faster or slower depending on the zoom level. Never seen such a thing before when using drawpath... anyone knows what that's supposed to mean? (I'll add a screenshot in 5)
EDIT:
So here's a picture
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2FNodyme%2FSimCity4%2Fblinky.jpg&hash=5cde682206f109a08d28d462b4841e6e382bf8bd)
Like I said, the red lines forming wedges at the outer lines of the MAVE-6 are blinking red and white...
Quote from: GMT on September 19, 2011, 12:10:44 PM
Nah seriously, yesterday I did the drawpaths thingy for the fun of it and realized something weird around MAVE-6:
at the outer edges of every MAVE-6 I have, there's some sort of wedges flashing alternating red and white, faster or slower depending on the zoom level. Never seen such a thing before when using drawpath... anyone knows what that's supposed to mean?
Those are the DIPs that grant the MAVE-6 and other networks the 25% capacity boost. On other DIPped networks, they might show as green arrowheads.
On just the MAVE-6, they're flashing (which would normally indicate they're broken, but they're intentionally "broken") because there were odd effects with having them unbroken before.
Research showed that by making them invalid still gave the intersection functionality yet didn't exhibit the weird commute query tool paths as much.
Testing shows that the bug only affects traffic that is entering or exiting the flow of traffic from a LOT next to the road (Doesn't matter if the lot doesn't face the road, sims just have to try and enter it to trigger the graphical bug.)
I'm having a problem with the new draggable transition between road and TLA-3.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg819.imageshack.us%2Fimg819%2F2286%2Fnorlandjan7401316485744.th.png&hash=1dd7fd48c13f2fefbd1555ebd54fd51237a1bbff) (http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2286/norlandjan7401316485744.png)
This only happens if there is development next to the transition.
But are the paths fine? If the paths are aligned fin, then its just a wealth dependent texture problem. Thank you for sharing.
It looks like the wealthification for the TLA-5/AVE-4 transition ended up in the TLA-3/Road transition IID range. Going to require repackaging the whole file.
-Alex
@Moonraker0, I found that bug the other day - if you place medium zoning next to that piece it reverts to the proper texture.
Quote from: jdenm8 on September 19, 2011, 05:47:02 PM
Research showed that by making them invalid still gave the intersection functionality yet didn't exhibit the weird commute query tool paths as much.
Testing shows that the bug only affects traffic that is entering or exiting the flow of traffic from a LOT next to the road (Doesn't matter if the lot doesn't face the road, sims just have to try and enter it to trigger the graphical bug.)
So this is supposed to happen when there's lots somewhere down the road? If so, somethings wrong as there's nothing but roads (yet) in my entire region
Quote from: GMT on September 20, 2011, 04:46:28 AM
Quote from: jdenm8 on September 19, 2011, 05:47:02 PM
Research showed that by making them invalid still gave the intersection functionality yet didn't exhibit the weird commute query tool paths as much.
Testing shows that the bug only affects traffic that is entering or exiting the flow of traffic from a LOT next to the road (Doesn't matter if the lot doesn't face the road, sims just have to try and enter it to trigger the graphical bug.)
So this is supposed to happen when there's lots somewhere down the road? If so, somethings wrong as there's nothing but roads (yet) in my entire region
No, the paths will act like that regardless. It is to stop a bug that occurs when there is development alongside.
So is there any plan for an AVE-6 addon with trees in the median like your T21 experiments? One would be very useful in making Park Ave. for my NYC recreation.
its too bad there wasnt a way to share the ave-4 median with ave-2 and ave-6.
Quote from: Kitsune on September 22, 2011, 05:00:19 PM
its too bad there wasnt a way to share the ave-4 median with ave-2 and ave-6.
I think not; I have successfully transferred some of the AVE-4 props for use with the AVE-6 median. Look a few pages back. I haven't gotten to releasing it just yet; I've been busy with other things...
You could do the same with AVE-2, but the AVE-4 props are too wide.
Ganaram can I expect you to complete T'21 mod for AVE-6 with standard collars AVE-4 medians. You were shown a picture and look perfect, I think that should work properly without any difficulty.
- Ivo
Quote from: PBGV on September 22, 2011, 12:22:44 AM
So is there any plan for an AVE-6 addon with trees in the median like your T21 experiments?
Quote from: ivo_su on September 23, 2011, 05:07:56 PM
Ganaram can I expect you to complete T'21 mod for AVE-6 with standard collars AVE-4 medians.
What does this tell you? ;)
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/26790-maxis-styled-ave-6-median-pack/
Two caveats, though: You can only use one of the 15 T21 DATs, but you can select which one you want to use. Also, I originally wanted to go with a wealth-neutral setup, but I decided against it, but if you were to ask me which one would be wealth-neutral, I'd go with any of the medium-wealth medians.
Out already. Nicely done.
Ganaram very good job on your part. Exactly what I needed and now I am glad that finally AVE-6 seems as I always wanted. It is good that the middle section of the AVE-6 / 8 is the same and this great MOD will be used in the future. Just to ask you is true that the AVE-8 will be 3 tiles size?
- Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on September 24, 2011, 11:36:11 AM
Just to ask you is true that the AVE-8 will be 3 tiles size?
I'm glad the T21 pack is to your liking, and to answer your question, the AVE-8 will also be a 3-tile network.
Finally noticed an issue on RailxNWM 1-Ways when testing jondor's crossing mod; passing trains stop for one another as if it were a switch, but it doesn't happen on the Vanilla 1-way.
Not sure if it's his mod or the way they've always acted.
Stop points were added to the tracks--this was necessary in order to get the crossing gates to work on OWR and RHW Rail crossings.
-Alex
I was a bit bored earlier so I made road/rhw to MAVE-4 transition textures:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg200.imageshack.us%2Fimg200%2F7374%2Fmave4toroad1.png&hash=348bdb1a44cfcee2f082c0c04df0891a3e117797)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg84.imageshack.us%2Fimg84%2F1378%2Fmave4torhw1a.png&hash=bbbe1b4b29fb50e796585361000cf2e0d1b82766)
Obviously they will need alpha maps and wealthication but such a piece would be quite useful ;D
Quote from: Dexter on September 29, 2011, 12:35:19 PM
Obviously they will need alpha maps and wealthication but such a piece would be quite useful ;D
It most certainly will be! You are officially awesome, my friend. :thumbsup:
-Alex
Quote from: Dexter on September 29, 2011, 12:35:19 PM
I was a bit bored earlier so I made road/rhw to MAVE-4 transition textures:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg200.imageshack.us%2Fimg200%2F7374%2Fmave4toroad1.png&hash=348bdb1a44cfcee2f082c0c04df0891a3e117797)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg84.imageshack.us%2Fimg84%2F1378%2Fmave4torhw1a.png&hash=bbbe1b4b29fb50e796585361000cf2e0d1b82766)
Quote from: Tarkus on September 29, 2011, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: Dexter on September 29, 2011, 12:35:19 PM
Obviously they will need alpha maps and wealthication but such a piece would be quite useful ;D
It most certainly will be!
I second that. :thumbsup:
Nice job.
And you get my compliments too, Dexter! These will be very usefull indeed.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, here's a few more whilst I'm at it:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg716.imageshack.us%2Fimg716%2F2244%2Fmave6toroad1.png&hash=027e9f5c6e7817e3ae3c60f10820901acfe107c8)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg714.imageshack.us%2Fimg714%2F4059%2Ftla5totla32.png&hash=16ade38f3d0dd64ebeb5a8d96eba01fddd6c005b)
EDIT: Added another:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg10.imageshack.us%2Fimg10%2F5923%2Fmave4toroadnmave4.png&hash=f959f713f2d274410b78dbd4067ac53309a15449)
Your work with textures is excellent as your batting skills :)
hope to see all in game.
Quote from: Dexter on September 29, 2011, 03:29:39 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg716.imageshack.us%2Fimg716%2F2244%2Fmave6toroad1.png&hash=027e9f5c6e7817e3ae3c60f10820901acfe107c8)
At least now there's a proper TLA-3 to TLA-5 transition. In terms of how much space it consumes, it's analogous to the AVE-2 to AVE-4 transition.
However, the MAVE-2 (Road) to MAVE-6 transition would probably cause an immense bottleneck in real life (That's three lanes converging into one lane, far too abrupt of a change). An NMAVE-4 to MAVE-6 transition would sound more feasible.
Lol it would be of limited use except for temporary layouts, but there have been a few situations in RL where this has indeed happened
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.imageshack.us%2Fimg3%2F3177%2Fa2falcon.jpg&hash=e7a1b328a2ed69b775afe882e802300f62fd7726)
The A2, which is the main road into London from the South, had a 6 lane motorway-standard road crash into a 2 lane suburban street for about 20 years until they finally built a new dual carraigeway in a cutting. The local residents of the time said the whole area would just be gridlocked daily at peek times and the queues would back up for miles.
Here is the same location now (http://g.co/maps/pzequ)
I'm building an intersection as you can see on this pic:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shrani.si%2Ft%2FD%2F11M%2FLRdAX1X%2Fkrizisce1.jpg&hash=de93162015fe651d3a1c45afbe0bbc77e44c9102) (http://www.shrani.si/?D/11M/LRdAX1X/krizisce1.jpg)
The section where OWR splits from two to four lanes is too long because you have to put OWR4 starter.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shrani.si%2Ft%2Fm%2FA9%2F1Gw3dPOV%2Fkrizisce2.jpg&hash=bc12179666915c537ce3e8cceef199205afc256b) (http://www.shrani.si/?m/A9/1Gw3dPOV/krizisce2.jpg)
Can something be done to shorten the whole thing?
And one more thing: I don't want arrows on my OWR, how do I get rid of them?
Attached to this post is a mod that removes the yellow median line of the AVE-6:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg62.imageshack.us%2Fimg62%2F2267%2Feuronwm02.jpg&hash=1e41272b3f6cd17fe6817b07c39c4ba4ed65624c)
This small mod can be used in both Euro as American setups.
Best,
Maarten
Awesome transitions Dexter! &apls &apls Very useful indeed.
And nice work on the mod Maarten :thumbsup:
Nice textures Dexter! I've a small remark regarding the road markings - in RL (at least here in Bulgaria) they look like this: (just a quick Paint made example)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg689.imageshack.us%2Fimg689%2F2244%2Fmave6toroad1.png&hash=b0aa61904aedd12f85d20b1df211d2461bf85455)
And Maarten, thank you for all these mods!
Crosshatching is possible, but the reason I decided against it is because of flipping & RHD/LHD issues, and none of the default textures included in the NWM/NAM currently feature it.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg851.imageshack.us%2Fimg851%2F451%2Fmave6toroad1crshtch.png&hash=2c34d08e42e5f0301f557bff83ad06cead3cdf73)
Io_big, I think not just in Bulgaria, but you touched the thing, that I was thinking about few times, while building roads.
Even the "entering" direction could simply convert from one lane to two lane, the opposite situation is impermissible in real life. There should be clear markings, which lane ends, and which lane goes farther and has the priority. Of course, there could be right-hand rule in use, however it would be extremely dangerous. I'm not sure, how it looks like in US, but I guess, the same as in Europe.
The same case is in RHW, but in european textures made by Maarten, as I remember, it was corrected.
Quote from: Dino007 on September 30, 2011, 10:19:30 AM
Can something be done to shorten the whole thing?
Demolish the two tiles that you don't want, most of the starter stubs have a stability fix which makes them persist after the main piece was removed.
Quote from: Dexter on September 30, 2011, 12:58:32 PM
Crosshatching is possible, but the reason I decided against it is because of flipping & RHD/LHD issues, and none of the default textures included in the NWM/NAM currently feature it.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg851.imageshack.us%2Fimg851%2F451%2Fmave6toroad1crshtch.png&hash=2c34d08e42e5f0301f557bff83ad06cead3cdf73)
We don't feature crosshatching on anything except WRHW-2 (and especially transitions like that) for a good reason, that the game treats the texture in weird ways. It's easier to RUL a non crosshatched texture than to RUL a crosshatched one with directionality preserved.
All OWR roads from the NWM have too many arrows. I have the 'OneWayRoad_Arrows_Reduction_Plugin' in my plugins folder. I would like to have no arrows the same as the regulars OWR roads.
Is it just me, or has anyone this problem? and how can i fix it?
Quote from: Paul 999 on October 04, 2011, 10:20:00 AM
All OWR roads from the NWM have too many arrows. I have the 'OneWayRoad_Arrows_Reduction_Plugin' in my plugins folder. I would like to have no arrows the same as the regulars OWR roads.
There's currently no OWR Arrow Reduction for any of the NWM's OWRs.
Really?
@Dexter, the crosshatch texture looks nice. Just in case you change your mind though, here is what's already out there, if you want to keep consistency:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.simtropolis.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Ddownloads%26amp%3Bmodule%3Ddisplay%26amp%3Bsection%3Dscreenshot%26amp%3Bfull%3D1%26amp%3Bid%3D26229%26amp%3Brecord%3D86341&hash=c2c27a4c57763c193b7ffc05eba20be04a676504)
I've just now wondering, will there be a Narrow-Medianless AVE-4 to Maxis AVE-4 transition? Because that would be very useful.
Hi,
just to know, has the following problem been solved in the current release (released on lex on 20/09/11)?
Quote from: Tarkus on September 19, 2011, 10:54:34 PM
It looks like the wealthification for the TLA-5/AVE-4 transition ended up in the TLA-3/Road transition IID range. Going to require repackaging the whole file.
-Alex
I also want to report a very strange problem.
If you start a new city and build a TLA3, construction trucks appears as usual. But when the road construction is over, the sound effect (the truck's "bip bip bip") remains. And also it remains if you destroy the TLA3.
This is especially disturbing when you city is grown and you continously heard bip bip bip.
I've removed any other plugin except NAM,RHW,NWM.
Yes... we do know of that one and it's an EXE-locked bug related to the Rail network's construction sound when Rail is used as part of a puzzle starter (not just TLA-3's starter piece, but a lot of others too).
Saving and restarting the game fixes the issue, and it can be prevented by dragging out a short enough distance of road that the road construction vehicles don't appear, then again, then demolishing the starter.
ok, thanks for the suggestion!
Fortunately, the way to do that is drag no more then 4 tiles. 5 tiles, bip, bip, bip. Unfortunately, that takes more construction time.
Don't know if this has been posted here yet:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg714.imageshack.us%2Fimg714%2F7909%2Fowr3ave6missingpaths101.jpg&hash=82994494342d65493a23a06a6d1fe6296aa48995)
The center tile on the AVE-6 seems to be missing paths. Also had some 'wrong' paths on other T-ends on the AVE-6. The top of the tee doesn't seem to have intersection paths, while the others do, making a left turn impossible. Texture seems to be good though.
Regards,
Korot
Hi, I would like to suggest a new transition, 4-lane Oneway road splitter to 2 side-by-side maxis one way road, so that we can have a split type avenue, half of it going on a flyover or underpass.
:)
That transition already exists in NWM 2.0. However, it's not a puzzle piece, but a draggable setup. Draw a dead-end OWR-4, then draw two dead end OWR-2s that end right where the OWR-4 ends. It'll convert into a transition.
-Alex
From the RHW thread:
Quote from: Tarkus on October 18, 2011, 11:05:11 AM
I'm almost wondering the MAVE designation should be done away with entirely. Just use "Road". The MAVEs (and ARD) are really just giant roads anyway. The MAVE-4 and MAVE-6 would become RD-4 and RD-6. Would cut down on all the confusion with people calling AVE-6 a MAVE-6 and vice-versa, too.
-Alex
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 18, 2011, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Gringamuyloca on October 18, 2011, 11:37:39 AM
Yes :thumbsup: Alex.
This makes good sense. ;D
Then why don't we take it over to the NWM thread? "$Deal"$ That's NWM-related, after all...
@ GDO29Anagram - Consider it done. ;) :thumbsup:
Great Job Guys, I would love to see road side parking, like next to stores and other stuff. it can be call the Urban Road Side Parking Mod. And if I want to make this mod what tool I will need to make this?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.746496,-73.977539&spn=0.002207,0.007328&t=m&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=40.746496,-73.977539&panoid=ahH72NeLRUPbUiad4Z29-w&cbp=12,345.73,,0,14.56
I recall there being a mod doing that. Can't remember if it is a texture mod, using T21's, or part of the SAM, since I don't use that mod.
Regards,
Korot
I want it for roads that has more lanes like the early post I made with the link to google maps. I do not really use the SAM maybe I should, but I want to see parallel parking and Diagonal Parking. :D
Ah yes, the mod I remember doesn't have that. That mod is the SFBT Street Tree Mod (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1196), which adds parking bays along side some roads and streets, depending on wealth level. Having not seen tree alongside my OWR-4's and AVE-6's (and the like), I don't think it works on those. :P
There also is the JRJ Street Side Mod (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=115), which I haven't used myself, but considering it stems from 2007 and has not been updated since, I highly doubt it supports the NWM as well. $%Grinno$%
Still, I like you idea, but I don't see merit in it becoming a functional network, or texture variation (like SAM). I, myself, see more merit in updating one of those Stree Mods to include the NWM networks, and thus have parking bays on some of them (those where they fit). But that's just my opinion.
Oh, BTW: has someone already found a fix to the bug I posted a couple of posts up? Have seen no reply about it... :-\
Regards,
Korot
Would it be possible to make the amount of lanes more flexible on nwm networks? Something similar to the RHWS networks, where different sides of the highway can have different amounts of lanes.
If you want to create an avenue with odd lanes use the oneway roads; example OWR-3 + OWR-2 or OWR-4 + OWR-5. ;)
Quote from: pimmapman on October 20, 2011, 01:22:35 AM
Would it be possible to make the amount of lanes more flexible on nwm networks? Something similar to the RHWS networks, where different sides of the highway can have different amounts of lanes.
You can do that already, using different starter pieces for the different halves (ie one side MAVE-4, one side MAVE-6) and the same thing will be possible with the same technique once AVE-8/TLA-9 are released, with AVE-6/TLA-7
Quote from: Korot on October 18, 2011, 01:11:07 PM
Oh, BTW: has someone already found a fix to the bug I posted a couple of posts up? Have seen no reply about it... :-\
Attached below. Did it a couple days ago but forgot to attach it.
Quote from: pimmapman on October 20, 2011, 01:22:35 AM
Would it be possible to make the amount of lanes more flexible on nwm networks? Something similar to the RHWS networks, where different sides of the highway can have different amounts of lanes.
As
noahclem mentioned, there already are some asymmetry options and there will be more as the mod expands. It's a little trickier to do with the NWM compared to the RHW due to the fact that at-grade intersections are involved, which increases the complexity from the modding side.
-Alex
Thank you for fixing the bug! &apls And I'm sorry to keep bugging you about it: but what about attaching it to the first post, and removing the old v1.0 patches? Makes finding it easier. :thumbsup:
Regards,
Korot
You're most welcome. I've merged it with the other NWM patch (that was released in the RHW thread, oddly enough, which fixed the so-called "Twyla bug") and attached it to the initial post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg33176#post_Fixes).
When we get around to the "monolithic NAM" package with NAM Version 31, we've discussed converting NAM Essentials into a combined Controller update/bugfix package for between releases, which will better allow us to fix any Controller-related bug reports, so there won't be the attachment mess anymore.
-Alex
I've been using NWM for some time now, and I noticed one "flaw"... Nothing big (hence the quotes), but on AVE-4/MAVE-6 intersection on certain zoom levels sidewalk/grass texture filing the tiles is missing so i get black patches. Missing texture in files or I'm just missing something on my comp?
Also, is there a way (either TuLEP or something else) to make T-intersections of AVE-4 and wider NMW networks so that the NWM network is ending in that intersection? Or the only way so far is to downgrade the ending network in AVE-4 as far as I know...
And.... Keep up the good work... :thumbsup:
As for the bug, it's one that's persisted since NWM 1.0 and hasn't been fixed. I reported it a long time ago, but a fix never eventuated.
As for the T-Junction, just drag it. There aren't any TuLEPs as they would be outside the scope of the Basic TuLEPs set. I think all of the networks currently in are capable of that and I think AVE-8 and TLA-9 would be capable of it as well, just no TuLEPs allowed.
Well, If I end, let's say AVE-6 in T-junction with AVE-4, first "row" will switch to correct pieces, but the other one will revert to regular road so I'll basically get 3 road/avenue pieces next to each other, not AVE-4/AVE-6 pieces...
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/412/faultyone.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/412/faultyone.jpg)
(Xfire didn't want to show in Sim City for some reason so I had to use imageshack... ::) )
My guess is there isn't override (or pieces) meant for this, or I'm doing something terribly wrong :D
Quote from: Synthael on October 26, 2011, 08:57:46 AM
Well, If I end, let's say AVE-6 in T-junction with AVE-4, first "row" will switch to correct pieces, but the other one will revert to regular road so I'll basically get 3 road/avenue pieces next to each other, not AVE-4/AVE-6 pieces...
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/412/faultyone.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/412/faultyone.jpg)
(Xfire didn't want to show in Sim City for some reason so I had to use imageshack... ::) )
My guess is there isn't override (or pieces) meant for this, or I'm doing something terribly wrong :D
Synthael I am glad I could help you, since I also had a similar problem but I managed to find a solution. Special T-junction between the AVE-6, with the AVE-4 is not possible but you can use a little trick. Make a small area of MAVE-6 which intersects the AVE-6 and thus obtain the desired T-junction. Then connect MAVE-6 using a secret weapon to the AVE-4 and everything works.
Best,
- Ivo
Quote from: Synthael on October 26, 2011, 08:57:46 AM
Well, If I end, let's say AVE-6 in T-junction with AVE-4, first "row" will switch to correct pieces, but the other one will revert to regular road so I'll basically get 3 road/avenue pieces next to each other, not AVE-4/AVE-6 pieces...
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/412/faultyone.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/412/faultyone.jpg)
(Xfire didn't want to show in Sim City for some reason so I had to use imageshack... ::) )
My guess is there isn't override (or pieces) meant for this, or I'm doing something terribly wrong :D
When I get that, I just roll through the Ave and create a full intersection. Sure it sucks losing 2 spaces at the T, but its better than having 3 stoplights like that lol
@Ivo
I guess it's the best solution, looks kinda more realistic that way... Unless I could use MAVE-4 instead of MAVE-6 to get even better... Hmmm, need to check it. ;D
@Mike
That's what I was doing until now... just dragged the AVE-6 through the junction to make a full one, or in limited space situations, just downgraded to AVE-4 :)
I must say, with all the things I can do now with NMW, only thing I'm missing would be slip lanes for any NMW network to get that "realistic" feeling to the max, but I'm more than happy with everything I can do now =)
Quote from: Synthael on October 26, 2011, 10:45:26 AM
@Ivo
I guess it's the best solution, looks kinda more realistic that way... Unless I could use MAVE-4 instead of MAVE-6 to get even better... Hmmm, need to check it. ;D
@Mike
That's what I was doing until now... just dragged the AVE-6 through the junction to make a full one, or in limited space situations, just downgraded to AVE-4 :)
I must say, with all the things I can do now with NMW, only thing I'm missing would be slip lanes for any NMW network to get that "realistic" feeling to the max, but I'm more than happy with everything I can do now =)
Honestly, I never even considered downgrading. Time to go into my cities and see about doing that if possible lol
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F4678%2Fmissingpaths.png&hash=0da410c4c90479667295e812523995c40edb32a6)
Some missing paths? 2.0.2 patch is installed.
Quote from: michi_cc on October 27, 2011, 02:56:11 PM
Some missing paths?
It means there's even more paths missing that the recent patch doesn't fix, and another patch would be needed. Additionally, if you replicated that OWR-3 crossing with Rail and OWR-2 in place of Road (RD-2) and Street, you'll get the same result: Missing paths.
Quote
- Limited support for diagonal intersections on single-tile networks--this functionality is still experimental and offered on an "as-is" basis.
Don't get your hopes up for a patch, although this might be improved in an update before long. Don't quote me on that though.
Regarding diagonal intersections: as far as I remember, the TLA-3, AVE-2 and ARD-3 are the most "complete", as are situations in which the NWM network is orthogonal and the cross network is diagonal. Situations with diagonal NWM networks and orthogonal cross networks less so, and you can pretty much forget about trying to do anything involving a diagonal NWM with a diagonal cross network (except TLA-3/Road, as I recall).
The large part of the reason the diagonal intersection functionality didn't get fleshed out that much in NWM 2.0 is because there were just so many path files and textures that needed to be done (we're talking somewhere thereabouts of 200+ just for the single-tilers).
There's currently no further development on that front, mainly as my modding time has been much more limited lately with RL, and my focus during that little bit of time has been on "Project 0E". That project is coming along well, but I likely won't be returning to active NWM duty until it's essentially done.
-Alex
Hi,
first, thanks for the vast amount of additional stuff now available! It's simply stunning!
Second, I have a problem with the MAVE-6 neighbour connection. My setup is a follows:
AAAAA MMM MMM AAAAA
AAAAA MMM MMM AAAAA
MMM MMM
MMM MMM
MMM MMM
----------------------- border
So, basically I have an T-junction between an Avenue and a MAVE-6. After some tries I managed to get the MAVE-6 in place (it's a little bit tricky cause you only have 3 tiles between the junction and the tile border). However, now I cannot place the MAVE-6 neighbour connection peace.
When moving the mouse voer the MAVE-6 tile that is adjacent ot the border, the puzzle piece is placed beside the MAVE-6, not on top of it.
Is there a limitation for placing the MAVE-6 neighbourhood connection puzzle piece? On the other side of the border there are 4 tiles between the junction and the border, and I have no problems placing the connector there.
Do you by chance have a starter in the vicinity?
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on November 07, 2011, 02:41:43 PM
Do you by chance have a starter in the vicinity?
-Alex
I suppose not, but I will check again this evening.
Edit Nov, 9th: THere was no starter piece around. I just rebuild the whole intersection again, and then it worked out fine. Don't know why it wouldn't let me plop the connector piece in the first time ... Most likely something went wrong when dragging out the MAVE-6 over the 3 tiles to the city border, because the query tool showed the "Neighbour Connection" popup only for one of the two lanes.
So basically - problem fixed! Sims are happy to find their way to work again ;D
I don't think that the following little glitch has been reported yet:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.hostingpics.net%2Fpics%2F9417393laneOWR1.jpg&hash=ab7697d93ff07c3e09bb87d1634f869c9c5f1888) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=9417393laneOWR1.jpg)
'OWR-1' should be 'OWR-3' instead. Nothing major, but it should be fixed in the next release of NWM - which by the way is really great!
D'oh! Well, the LTEXTs were getting a bit of revamp anyway (mainly because of the "namechange" from MAVE-4/MAVE-6 to Road-4/Road-6), so that can be sneaked in next time pretty easily.
I thought I'd also give a little "status update" on the NWM side of things. Aside from the LTEXT tweaks and some improvements with RHW interfacing planned as part of the on-going RHW Project 0E improvements, NWM development is more or less on hiatus. It will likely remain that way until Project 0E is in hand and my RL calms down.
Much as is happening with the RHW, the NWM is going to cease to exist as a separate-download plugin and will be merged into the NAM Core, starting with NAM Version 31. It is expected there will be an "ultra-stabilization" effort on the NWM sometime after Project 0E is done. It won't be quite as much of a massive undertaking, as there will be far less drastic changes to the "under the hood" aspects of the mod and the NWM overrides are already among the most stable in the "NAM universe" currently.
-Alex
I personally less interested in the long run when you start building ENWM networks. Whether this will happen at Version 3.0 or will be more later. At present I see my multi-levels of RHW more in the next version - 6.0 but has never spoken hard for this development in NWM. However, and currently has a partial solution to this problem through a splitter between RHW and NWM. Thus, relatively easy to build an overpass for AVE-6 to move to ERHW-6C and thus achieve the desired effect on us. Similarly, would result in AVE-8/TLA-9 to ERHW-8C but the problem would be one way roads.
- Ivo
The NAM elevated model revamp in NAM Version 30 was actually an "initial step" toward ENWM networks. They were designed such that we could easily port them (which we couldn't do with the old models). The plans right now for the elevated "Surface Street" networks (e.g. Road, OWR, AVE, all NWM networks) is for them to eventually have L1 and L2 versions. We won't be going higher than L2 on them.
-Alex
@Tarkus: For me, It would be very useful a L2 or L3 pieces of all network to make bridge from hillside to another &idea without the workaround of rain tool :( and they can intersect with other networks too :). Maybe you can make only straight pieces and straight intersection over other networks after you finish Project 0E and your RL stuff :thumbsup:.
Example of L3 viaduct or bridge from hillside to another
____________
'''''''\| | | | | |/'''''''
\ | | | | /
\ | | /
\ = 7.5m
I just noticed that the link to the 2.0.2 patch in the sticky post isn't working for me - it just takes me down to the optional addons section. Am I missing something or is this an issue? Thanks!
Quote from: vinlabsc3k on November 13, 2011, 03:18:41 AM
Example of L3 viaduct or bridge from hillside to another
_________
'''''''\| | | |/'''''''
\ | | /
\ = 15m
From your diagram, you're indicating L4 ENWM networks. They are out, at the very least out of the next build anyway, because the primary function of the overpasses is to go over other networks. Not to mention that a crossing like you propose would just be...
Sorry, my fault. I've modified the diagram.
Quote from: Tarkus on November 11, 2011, 04:48:00 PM
The NAM elevated model revamp in NAM Version 30 was actually an "initial step" toward ENWM networks. They were designed such that we could easily port them (which we couldn't do with the old models). The plans right now for the elevated "Surface Street" networks (e.g. Road, OWR, AVE, all NWM networks) is for them to eventually have L1 and L2 versions. We won't be going higher than L2 on them.
Great news on the elevated NWM plans! Me being me, I can't wait for L1 everything $%Grinno$%
@ vinlabsc3k - Another work-around for going from one hillside to the next would be using a "zero-slope" mod that has pylons for all terrain heights (versus retaining walls or terrain-lifting for lower heights). Unfortunately, those pylons don't look as nice as the new viaduct models, but they would allow intersections.
@ Alex (again) - Combining the previous two elements of my comment: Would it make any sense to have the pylons in the viaduct models extend below "0" on the z-axis, like the diagonal rail bridge puzzle pieces do? While not useful for everybody it would be nice for the trick I just suggested to vinlabsc3k or for placing simple bridges in the same manner (as in my most recent MD update). The most useful aspect of that would be it's facilitation of triple-tile bridges. While possible now, they don't look good more than 15-20m above sea level as the pylons are then obviously hovering above the water.
Quote from: bthersh on November 13, 2011, 06:32:49 AM
I just noticed that the link to the 2.0.2 patch in the sticky post isn't working for me - it just takes me down to the optional addons section. Am I missing something or is this an issue? Thanks!
The Internal URL link was directing to the wrong spot. My apologies for the confusion, and fortunately, it's been fixed now. (That post can sometimes be a bit tricky to edit because there's a lot of info and links there. You can also find patches just by simply scrolling down the first post.)
Quote from: noahclem on November 13, 2011, 09:52:05 AM
@ Alex (again) - Combining the previous two elements of my comment: Would it make any sense to have the pylons in the viaduct models extend below "0" on the z-axis, like the diagonal rail bridge puzzle pieces do? While not useful for everybody it would be nice for the trick I just suggested to vinlabsc3k or for placing simple bridges in the same manner (as in my most recent MD update). The most useful aspect of that would be it's facilitation of triple-tile bridges. While possible now, they don't look good more than 15-20m above sea level as the pylons are then obviously hovering above the water.
I had been thinking along those lines as well. :thumbsup:
I should also clarify on the ENWM plans . . . "all" should be "all but the OWR-1", as I'm not sure there's really too much need for an elevated OWR-1.
-Alex
Can someone release an AVE-6 median on the LEX? I'd like to download Ganaram Di's AVE-6 median on STEX, I have an account there but I don't know already my password. If can only someone release an AVE-6 median in the LEX. :( &hlp &hlp
EDIT: Please release an AVE-6 median! I'd be satisfied if someone releases it. ()stsfd()
-Ilikeanrhw
I don't know if this been reported before. My automota will not drive on to Diagonal OWR-4. The automata stops on the straight to diagonal part. Is there a missing path somewhere?
Quote from: Ilikeanrhw on November 16, 2011, 04:42:46 PM
Can someone release an AVE-6 median on the LEX? I'd like to download Ganaram Di's AVE-6 median on STEX, I have an account there but I don't know already my password. If can only someone release an AVE-6 median in the LEX. :( &hlp &hlp
EDIT: Please release an AVE-6 median! I'd be satisfied if someone releases it. ()stsfd()
-Ilikeanrhw
This is a Maxis styled one: http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/26790-maxis-styled-ave-6-median-pack/
Why don't you guys make a AVE-8, MAVE-8, and AVE-10 (MAVE-10 is not that realistic, nor is TLA-9 or TLA-11)?
While I don't know what new additions the NAM team has in store for the NWM, I do know that the addition of new features to the NWM and all other NAM components is more or less on hiatus for now. AFAIK, this is due to RL on the part of the NAM team, in addition to the development of Project 0E which integrates all NAM components together and improves stability of override networks like the RHW.
Quote from: gooper1 on November 22, 2011, 02:09:47 PM
Why don't you guys make a AVE-8, MAVE-8, and AVE-10 (MAVE-10 is not that realistic, nor is TLA-9 or TLA-11)?
Because we have better things to do than just add wider and wider networks that fill no real functionality and aren't based on any (or few) real life counterparts. I'm yet to see any practical use of an AVE-10 or TLA-11, and if they exist, they probably don't exist in Europe, which is where I live. We have considered AVE-8 and TLA-9 though, and who knows, they might show up in an upcoming NWM release. And as metarvo says, at the moment we're busy with Project 0E and stabalizing the overall NAM code.
I don't mean to sound rude, but this question (why don't you make a wider [insert network]?) has been asked many times before, and the answer is it takes time, time that is better spent on improving the networks that we already have implemented.
Here's an example of a real life AVE-14...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi304.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn179%2FCahos_Rahne_Veloza%2FCommonwealthAvenue.jpg&hash=71bbc4445987dc788c08d381708dd1bf33421227)
It is a section of the Commonwealth Avenue in Quezon City here in the Philippines. If you have Google Earth you can easily locate it by typing "Old Capitol Site, Quezon City" in Google Earth's search bar. Once Google Earth zooms in & uploads the section of the map you will immediately see an elliptical roadway. Zoom in on it & follow the wide stretch of road that's heading due North-east, that God forsaken monstrosity is commonwealth avenue.
Oh & don't get me wrong, I'm not defending gooper1's request, I just wanted to show what an AVE-14 looks like.
And yeah.... we here loosely misuse & mix up the definition of what is an Avenues, roads, highways &/or street ()what()
Take this stretch of road, it clearly looks like a pair of RHW-7s & the avenue has been dubbed "the killer highway" because of the many car accidents that has lead to deaths on it but it clearly is named as an avenue. And in fact a decade ago this avenue was merely an AVE-6 before our numbskull Road works planning agency leaders upgraded it to what it is now.
The most lanes on an Avenue I have ever driven on is 3 in each direction with the suicide lane in the middle(I forget what that is with the NWM), and that scared the hell out of me driving it, because I am not used to driving on a roadway with that many lanes that has stop signs on it and not traffic lights, but there is a place near me that is like that, and I avoid it all together if possible. Most cities in my area have 2 lanes in each direction with the suicide lane.
These "Mega-wide" networks have already pointed out before. I've seen maps of AVE-14's already (Argentina), and even some that go up to MAVE-18's (Moscow, Russia).
Here's the big thing: Are they practical and are they commonly used?
If it's used in just one area in the world and is pretty unsafe, that reduces the chance of an NWM equivalent of ever being added.
They should upgrade that to a freeway between University Avenue and Regalado Highway, if that many cars use it, unless it's like that for a very specific reason (cost doesn't count)
Quote from: mike3775 on November 22, 2011, 06:41:37 PM
The most lanes on an Avenue I have ever driven on is 3 in each direction with the suicide lane in the middle(I forget what that is with the NWM), and that scared the hell out of me driving it, because I am not used to driving on a roadway with that many lanes that has stop signs on it and not traffic lights, but there is a place near me that is like that, and I avoid it all together if possible. Most cities in my area have 2 lanes in each direction with the suicide lane.
For us here I think four or five lanes on an Avenue is the minimum as a lot of the main thoroughfare here are that wide.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on November 22, 2011, 07:10:54 PM
These "Mega-wide" networks have already pointed out before. I've seen maps of AVE-14's already (Argentina), and even some that go up to MAVE-18's (Moscow, Russia).
Here's the big thing: Are they practical and are they commonly used?
If it's used in just one area in the world and is pretty unsafe, that reduces the chance of an NWM equivalent of ever being added.
Definitely agreeing on the safety bit :)
The primary reason why this particular stretch of Avenue is unsafe is because of three factors:
1. Driver recklessness - you folks think New York cabbies are nasty? Wait 'til you visit my country &/or India.
2. Negligence on the part of pedestrians - Yep, peds dare to cross those 14 lanes of traffic on a regular basis. There are pedestrian cross bridges but not enough of 'em & most are spaced too far apart. Oh & some of 'em, are flimsily built. There are three ped bridges on Commonwealth Avenue that gave rise to my fear of heights. They were built with aluminum alloy & galvanized steel & as you walked across you can feel the thing shake a lot. And on one of them the galvanized steel is even showing signs of wear as holes have started to form on the walkway.
3. Corrupt government officials - As I said, the avenue was once an AVE-6 but some jerk opted to upgrade the avenue to this monstrosity to ease traffic. During the 90's up until it was upgraded this stretch of avenue used to get over capped daily & not just during rush hour. So as a "workaround" they widened the avenue this much.
Quote from: Wiimeiser on November 22, 2011, 08:54:50 PM
They should upgrade that to a freeway between University Avenue and Regalado Highway, if that many cars use it, unless it's like that for a very specific reason (cost doesn't count)
One thing you need to know is that in this country 80% of road traffic is from public transport. If this were SC4 you'd think that 80% public transportation is a good thing, sadly in the real world... well where I'm from anyway, the "regular Joe" wants to have his/her own car & what annoys me so much is the media is even advertising that public transportation is the bane of one's existence here. I'm a firm supporter of public transportation & if any I'd really want all those gas guzzling private vehicles off our roads :P
An expressway will not be applicable in this country as public transportation here rely on "stop any where to unload &/or load passengers". The concept of designated stops is non-existent. Sure we do have bus stops (Commonwealth Avenue is one of a few that have them) but for the most part, almost every road here do not have 'em. If you want off, you holler & the bus (or other form of road based public transportation) will pull over the side of the road & you get off. For getting on a ride, you'd stand in the curb, wait for a ride & flag it down (just as you would a taxi) to get on.
Quote from: CahosRahneVeloza on November 22, 2011, 06:34:25 PM
Here's an example of a real life AVE-14...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi304.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn179%2FCahos_Rahne_Veloza%2FCommonwealthAvenue.jpg&hash=71bbc4445987dc788c08d381708dd1bf33421227)
It is a section of the Commonwealth Avenue in Quezon City here in the Philippines. If you have Google Earth you can easily locate it by typing "Old Capitol Site, Quezon City" in Google Earth's search bar. Once Google Earth zooms in & uploads the section of the map you will immediately see an elliptical roadway. Zoom in on it & follow the wide stretch of road that's heading due North-east, that God forsaken monstrosity is commonwealth avenue.
Oh & don't get me wrong, I'm not defending gooper1's request, I just wanted to show what an AVE-14 looks like.
And yeah.... we here loosely misuse & mix up the definition of what is an Avenues, roads, highways &/or street ()what()
Take this stretch of road, it clearly looks like a pair of RHW-7s & the avenue has been dubbed "the killer highway" because of the many car accidents that has lead to deaths on it but it clearly is named as an avenue. And in fact a decade ago this avenue was merely an AVE-6 before our numbskull Road works planning agency leaders upgraded it to what it is now.
Well I live in Philippines too.
I hope that an AVE-14 will be included in the releases..... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Do not expect that in the next 1-2 years there will be something broader than the AVE-8. The maximum that can be used is two parallel OWR-5 to build something like the AVE-10. Hyper broad networks will be introduced gradually but first in RHW and, after some time.
Here's where we're stopping things with each NWM type:
Avenues: AVE-8
Turning Lane Avenues: TLA-9
Roads (Medianless Avenues): Road-6 (MAVE-6)
One-Way Roads: OWR-6
The only other networks planned that are not implemented:
-AVE-8 (triple-tile, Road/OWR hybrid-based)
-TLA-9 (triple-tile, Road/OWR hybrid-based)
-AVE-7 (triple-tile, Road/OWR hybrid-based)
-TLA-8 (triple-tile, Road/OWR hybrid-based)
-TLA-4 (dual-tile, Road-based)
-AVE-3 (dual-tile, Road-based)
-Road-5 (MAVE-5) (dual-tile, Road-based, already partially implemented)
-ARD-4 (dual-tile, Road-based)
-TLA-6 (width/tile geometry still to be determined, Road-based)
-AVE-5 (width/tile geometry still to be determined, Road-based)
-OWR-6 (dual-tile, OWR-based)
-Elevated variants of many (but not all) networks, at L1 and L2 (no L3 or higher)
There will be no AVE-10, TLA-11 or anything like that. A TLA-9 is an extreme example of a TLA as it is. While there are examples of weird things like that AVE-14 in the Philippines and the OWR-11 in Moscow, they're also extreme examples. There are other items that are much more in demand and would be of more utility to our user base than those items (elevated functionality, more intersection options, more transitions, fractional angles, etc.).
As such, I wouldn't expect these "extreme" new networks items any time soon, if ever. And if you really want an AVE-10 (or 12), stick two OWR-5s or 6s together. We'll make TuLEPs for that purpose.
-Alex
Alex is absolutely right in his opinion - no sense of wider networks of AVE-8. Because not many bands and stop points at intersections slow traffic and generate traffic and congestion. For this purpose, can be used inter-urban highways with fewer lanes, but with more speed and intersections without stop points. Construction of local roadways also helps to reduce traffic. So for example in the construction of RHW-8C and connecting it with two parallel to it OWR-2 / 3 through MIS can achieve the desired effect of AVE - 10/14.
The addition of any new network is terribly difficult, complex and slow process. Require thousands of textures, paths RUL's codes, etc. It is necessary to comply with all other networks and projects of NAM which in turn adds hundreds of new intersections and ways to move above or below the new network.
Rather, if you start working on the draft RABET's would be great because everybody here want a big, wide roundabouts.
Personally I do not prefer such extremely wide road networks myself as I read in the papers & see it on the news daily how dangerous such wide networks are.
In game, I find the new triple tile NWM networks a bit difficult to use on the small & medium city block sizes but for the large blocks they can be very useful.
As is, I am very grateful for the work you folk have put into NAM & all these add-on modules for it :thumbsup:
Quote from: ivo_su on November 23, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Rather, if you start working on the draft RABET's would be great because everybody here want a big, wide roundabouts.
While I do have modding skill, my real-world experience with roundabouts is largely restricted to simple single-lane setups. I've driven a dual-lane roundabout exactly 4 times in my entire life (only 6 exist in Oregon, one of which
just opened last week (http://www.oregonlive.com/sherwood/index.ssf/2011/11/emergency_response_time_to_sla.html)), and I have never driven, let alone seen a triple-lane or wider roundabout in person (Google Maps doesn't count). I'm not sure any even exist within a 1000-mile radius of my present location.
Quite simply, between that, and the fact that I'm already more than occupied with projects that hold my interest more, I wouldn't be able to do RABETs justice. If someone else on the NAM Team wants to take it up, I'm happy to provide feedback on implementation and the technical modding aspects, but I'm not going to spearhead the project.
-Alex
Seems like a pretty good plan for the future of super-wide networks :thumbsup: It's great that OWR-6 and twin OWR-5 TuLEPs are planned and of course AVE-8 and its corresponding assymetrical and TLA varients will be very nice.
For some reason I had a feeling that the Champs Elysee was wider than it was, but it seems to be between 8-10 lanes--something that could be recreated using AVE-8 or twin OWR-5s with TuLEPs (though technically it's a MAVE). Other similarly famous wide avenues seem to tend to be about the same size.
Hopefully someone steps forward with the RAbETs. I really like the idea of the project but even if I were to start creating puzzle pieces I'd rather expand the functionality of the tram pieces.
I allowed myself to run a referendum in leading a project RABETs by Alex (Tarkus) who wishes to vote and let the number of points their vote with the aim to collect 100 votes for the referendum to be valid.
here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14050.0)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg697.imageshack.us%2Fimg697%2F2533%2Frabetslogodraft.png&hash=e9b95b73ed0039f8a5eaf35ef63ff432d4db4f52)
Will someone explain what Rabet's are?
Quote from: mike3775 on November 24, 2011, 04:49:24 AM
Will someone explain what Rabet's are?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg697.imageshack.us%2Fimg697%2F2533%2Frabetslogodraft.png&hash=e9b95b73ed0039f8a5eaf35ef63ff432d4db4f52)
Thanks. Way to many acronyms these days lol
I'm still trying to get the different NWM acronyms down
QuoteI allowed myself to run a referendum in leading a project RABETs by Alex (Tarkus) who wishes to vote and let the number of points their vote with the aim to collect 100 votes for the referendum to be valid.
QuoteQuite simply, between that, and the fact that I'm already more than occupied with projects that hold my interest more, I wouldn't be able to do RABETs justice. If someone else on the NAM Team wants to take it up, I'm happy to provide feedback on implementation and the technical modding aspects, but I'm not going to spearhead the project.
Ivo, Alex doesn't want to do roundabouts at this point. As he said, he is not particularly familiar with them (they only really became common in the last 5-10 years in the US) and therefore wouldn't be able to do them justice. I've done some work on RaBETs but I've been too busy with other projects (both SC4 and RL) to pay much attention to them. A few other NAM users (such as jdenm8) have done some work on roundabouts but they've been busy with other projects as well.
Remember, we're not being paid to do this. We're doing the NAM in our (limited) spare time, and it's going to be that way for the forseeable future. It'd be great if we had this as a job, but we can't be paid for our work. It's really that simple.
And there's also the fact that we haven't yet decided on how to implement them. When we do finally decide, it'll be most likely when Project 0E is completed and the next lot of TuLEPs are done.
Yes, you are right Shadow Assassin and I apologize for my enthusiastic that I really too far. I pray that Alex should not be angry with me, but did so because they respect him immensely, and I admire his ability. Certainly, the project RABETs is very important and necessary but not so much as to achieve ultra stability through 0E. Yes I agree also that for TuLEPs must make many pieces.
I hate that you guys do this for free. Maybe if I'd pay you a millionaire and I organized a sort of conference or workshop in a country in a hotel as you bear the costs. So things could become quite quickly. Can you imagine if you get with engineers from EA what could be obtained:
- Major cities biger of 4x4 km (perhaps as the whole map)
- Multiple cameras for different views
- Introduction of super HD textures (512 pixels)
But I think I started to dream too much about things that you can not accomplish, unfortunately. otherwise cross your fingers - I became a millionaire, I promise to conduct such workshops.
Good luck with your project 0E and may be completed with the desired results and to establish stability in NWM and not only on RHW.
4x4km cities are already available, they're the largest the game has.
There are multiple cameras already.
512x512 textures are perfectly possible and have been implemented in-game. The issue is the nine year old engine struggles and messes up the dithering, introducing noise, with little quality improvement over 256x256.
Quote from: jdenm8 on November 27, 2011, 03:42:12 PM
512x512 textures are perfectly possible and have been implemented in-game. The issue is the nine year old engine struggles and messes up the dithering, introducing noise, with little quality improvement over 256x256.
Not to mention that 512x512 will cause the game to crash in Software Rending. 256x256 also causes distortions in Zoom 5. I believe it was either
cogeo or
SimFox who figured out that the game's optimal setting for Zoom 5/6 compromise was actually somewhere thereabouts of 191x191 due to the way the game's cameras were oriented.
-Alex
Wow hey guys slower these are just dreams that I thought at night before going to sleep. Can hardly become a reality without a comprehensive reform exe. files without using the EA team. Also to answer jdenm8 I had to many cities larger than 4x4 km. Such as to have the whole map for example 10x10 or why not 20x20 km. But I do not know if this hardware is able to deliver the desired parameters. There are so many things that I thought that probably would take me for hours to tell you them, but I am afraid that this topic is not the place (and now I have a lot of blunders that are ashamed)
Glad you still stole the attention written by me and you comment on my dreams. It's nice that sometimes serious about words written by me.
Quote from: Tarkus on November 27, 2011, 04:06:05 PM
Not to mention that 512x512 will cause the game to crash in Software Rending.
Forgot about that one. ::)
I was in need for a slip lane for my AVE-6 intersection, so tried to I whip something up with the help of the Puzzle Piece tutorial.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg854.imageshack.us%2Fimg854%2F3717%2Fave6sliplane.png&hash=62613737a5692c02dfd7960ed2b1e6e3d0a5bbab)
No idea how broken that stuff is from the technical side (e.g. my chosen IIDs are totally stupid I guess), but it does seem to work :P
A .DAT with all stuff except the RUL code is at http://www.filedropper.com/zave-6sliplane_1 (http://www.filedropper.com/zave-6sliplane_1) (PNG texture (http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/637/ave6slip.png)).
RUL code needed:
AddTypes = 0998, 10998, 20998, 30998, 40998, 50998, 60998, 70998 ;AVE-6 Slip Lane
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00000998]
;AVE-6 TuLEP Slip Lane
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0x99FF0005
PreviewEffect = preview_slip_lane_ave6_piece
CellLayout =.....
CellLayout =..a.<
CellLayout =..^..
CheckType = a - road:0x02000200
ConsLayout =.....
ConsLayout =..|.<
ConsLayout =..^..
AutoTileBase= 0x99FF0000
ReplacementIntersection = 0, 0
PlaceQueryID = 0x99FF0000
Costs = 150
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00010998]
CopyFrom = 0x0998
Rotate = 1
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00020998]
CopyFrom = 0x0998
Rotate = 2
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00030998]
CopyFrom = 0x0998
Rotate = 3
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00040998]
;AVE-6 TuLEP Slip Lane
Piece = 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0x99FF0015
PreviewEffect = preview_slip_lane_ave6_piece2
CellLayout =.....
CellLayout =..a.<
CellLayout =..^..
CheckType = a - road:0x02000200
ConsLayout =.....
ConsLayout =..|.<
ConsLayout =..^..
AutoTileBase= 0x99FF0010
ReplacementIntersection = 0, 0
PlaceQueryID = 0x99FF0010
Costs = 150
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00050998]
CopyFrom = 0x40998
Rotate = 1
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00060998]
CopyFrom = 0x40998
Rotate = 2
[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00070998]
CopyFrom = 0x40998
Rotate = 3
Ooh! That's nice, Michi_cc! :)
Now that's being proactive :thumbsup:
I agree, I don't think the IIDs are in the correct range for TuLEPs. Tarkus would know more and be able to allocate it a final IID.
Quote from: jdenm8 on December 02, 2011, 06:45:07 PM
I agree, I don't think the IIDs are in the correct range for TuLEPs.
I know the IIDs aren't in the correct range. I was just too lazy to figure out proper IIDs that don't conflict the moment I update some other mod. :)
Hey Maarten and Alex :)
Please forgive me guys if this question or issue has been posted elsewhere
in this thread. I had a question about the new MAVE- 6 traffic capacity.
I first asked Z ( Steve ) about this and he suggested I post this here .
I should start off mentioning I use some of my own traffic capacity settings
in Simulator Z . But for road and avenue capacity settings I am currently using
3000 for each of those settings.
Okay so in my city , I had gotten to the point where I had a standard
maxis avenue 4 just starting to show some heavier congestion according to our
congestion view. So i thought this would be a good stretch of avenue to try the
MAVE -6. I knew I would get a 25 % boost to capacity by doing so. So I decided
to transition most of this stretch of road to the MAVE- 6. However the congestion
view does not really show any changes between standard avenue and MAVE-6.
It should be noted however , that its a short stretch of standard avenue before
it transitions to MAVE-6 as you see in my pic here-
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg607.imageshack.us%2Fimg607%2F6171%2Fmavecong2.jpg&hash=204f6d5d85e2ec88ec20c18e305a082afb8462a5)
Traffic is consistent on this avenue stretch. Being about 4800 on either
side of the avenue depending if it is the morning or evening commutes.
(Disregard the 2 red tiles nearest the intersection as those are caused by
the intersection effect there.)
I ran 2 other tests using a similar set-up in 2 other cities. Testing in a
consistent congested traffic environment using this same standard ave 4
to MAVE-6 transitions and than checking the congestion views to find no
changes to the color shading.
Additionally, I didn't feel it was an issue on my end . ( glitches or issues
with my plug in folder, data view files ect). The reason for this was i have
observed the changes in the congestion view for instance when I use a similar
sort of traffic upgrade from road to the TLA-3. ( the TLA-3 also makes use of
Alex's intersection and turn effect method to give the TLA-3 a 25 % capacity
increase over road.) So as an example I have a stretch of road that transitions
to the TLA-3 about halfway. You than see the expected drop from red to orange
on the congestion view, clearly showing the 25 % boost in traffic capacity.
Where I have placed the transition from road to TLA-3.
I have noted the TLA-3 is a 1 -tile wide network, whereas the MAVE-6 is a
2- tile network. I wasn't sure if this was a consideration with Alex's
intersection effect method or not .
So someone else may want to look into this,
Thanks so much for all the hard work and effort you guys put into this Mod !,
your good friend, Brian
Thanks for the report, Brian! That seems to suggest that the attempts to fix the so-called "Commute Arrow Cascade Effect" that folks were complaining about ended up breaking the Distilled Intersection Path (DIP) effect and lowered the capacity of the network. The per-tile capacity of the MAVE-6, under your settings, should be 3750 per tile (7500 for the whole network span), which should be enough to have resulted in a color change. My initial tests with a MAVE-4 and the altered-path MAVE-6 showed a switch from red to yellow, meaning your MAVE-6 should probably be green. The effect should be identical to transitioning from AVE to TLA-5.
Much later, we discovered that the Commute Arrow Cascade Effect was merely a harmless visual glitch, and not the cause for panic many folks were making it out to be (and it was still occurring to a lesser extent even after the "fix"), so it looks like the path files will need to be reverted to their previous configuration.
-Alex
hey guys i dont reply on here like i used to in the day on simtropolis. Anyway i have been working with hsr the last wk or 2. I have gotten pretty good with on sloping and been doing some terrain work a rounds. For the most part things have been going great, I wish it was easier to tunnel with HSR but currently i have a work around. However i think some skinning work needs to be done with it at intersections in particular the ghsr intersections just simply visually dont work at all. All HSR reverts to monoroail and T and + intersections you can ignore it or pretend its not there with the hsr however with the ghsr you cant just ignore the monorail at the intersection. On the other hand y intersections for the most part look pretty good they could use some re-touching up you can see some in the picutres but that doesnt compare to the T and +. Also even on the flat terrain that im showing here i was having issues getting a full + setup. i was not able to get the 2nd half to connect. I was also curious if elevated HSR could be made. With the new networks coming out this could be quite useful. I realize though that this would probably come out after the first release of DD intersections and other stuff projected for this next nam. BTW guys keep up the great work the nam, rtmt and other mods are what keep me coming back to this game over the years.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/ghsr4way.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/hsr4way.jpg/
Simply put, Jonathan hadn't done the wye setup yet (not sure if it was planned or not) but I can tell you right now that the crossing isn't - it's not sensible to cross two high speed rail lines at grade (its like having a highway cross another highway at grade). You'll need to grade separate them using GHSR and HSR.
(Psst, this is the NWM thread, not the HSR thread :))
Quote from: a11eria on December 14, 2011, 10:25:54 AM
hey guys i dont reply on here like i used to in the day on simtropolis. Anyway i have been working with hsr the last wk or 2. I have gotten pretty good with on sloping and been doing some terrain work a rounds. For the most part things have been going great, I wish it was easier to tunnel with HSR but currently i have a work around. However i think some skinning work needs to be done with it at intersections in particular the ghsr intersections just simply visually dont work at all. All HSR reverts to monoroail and T and + intersections you can ignore it or pretend its not there with the hsr however with the ghsr you cant just ignore the monorail at the intersection. On the other hand y intersections for the most part look pretty good they could use some re-touching up you can see some in the picutres but that doesnt compare to the T and +. Also even on the flat terrain that im showing here i was having issues getting a full + setup. i was not able to get the 2nd half to connect. I was also curious if elevated HSR could be made. With the new networks coming out this could be quite useful. I realize though that this would probably come out after the first release of DD intersections and other stuff projected for this next nam. BTW guys keep up the great work the nam, rtmt and other mods are what keep me coming back to this game over the years.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/ghsr4way.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/ghsr4way.jpg/)
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/hsr4way.jpg/ (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/hsr4way.jpg/)
If you do pop across to the HSR Development thread, you'll find that I have been discussing monorail/high-speed tunnels recently. Have a look, perhaps that would help? See my posts here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2089.msg396438#msg396438) and there (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2089.msg396647#msg396647) ;)
I don't know if the NWM team noticed this already, but the path for the OWR-3/AVE-6 intersection is missing:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg856.imageshack.us%2Fimg856%2F1994%2Fsimcity4201112212051546.jpg&hash=a7e7e2b34cc9fe9e720d75e2793132515cbbb2a3) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/simcity4201112212051546.jpg/)
Not only have we noticed it, we've fixed it already with the Version 2.0.2 patch (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.0#post_Fixes). :thumbsup:
-Alex
Ok, so I asked this some time ago, but I dont quite get it. I just opened google earth and measured one avenue in NYC. The avenue measured 18 meters width, so I transformed it into miles so I would know how many tiles in simcity should measure. The thing is that one tile in simcity is equal to 16 meters in real life. If basically one tile is 16 meters, then, the lanes should fit those 16 meters. So if an of you guys go measure the 6th Avenue in NYC you'll see that it is 18 meters width, BUT it's divided into 6 lanes. So my question is, how come one tile road in simcity has 2 lanes, when in real life the same tile(16 meters) has 6 lanes. I mean, unless 1 tiles is NOT equal to 16 meters, then it is impossible. Think about, in order to make 2 lanes out of 16 meters then each lanes at least should 5 or 6 meters, which would be also wrong since in average a lane has 2 1/2 meters.
Quote from: cmdp123789 on December 21, 2011, 07:43:54 PM
So my question is, how come one tile road in simcity has 2 lanes, when in real life the same tile(16 meters) has 6 lanes. I mean, unless 1 tiles is NOT equal to 16 meters, then it is impossible. Think about, in order to make 2 lanes out of 16 meters then each lanes at least should 5 or 6 meters, which would be also wrong since in average a lane has 2 1/2 meters*.
Keep in mind that an entire tile is NOT being used for lane space. The rest of the tile is being used for the grass area and the sidewalks.
The average lane width for most of the road networks in SC4 and most real-world highways is a little over 4 meters (somewhere in the neighbourhood of 13 feet and it's that big to accommodate bigger vehicles), and an OWR-5's full width is five times that, about 20 meters. But you have to take note of this: The two tiles that the OWR-5 takes up is NOT ALL ASPHALT. The blank space left over is for sidewalks.
With the exception of most RHW networks, if ANY network exceeds 16 meters in width, it becomes a two-tile network, simply because it has to occupy not only the additional asphalt, it has to occupy adjacent sidewalks. The fact that it's a two-tiler also means that it has more capacity than that of a one-tiler.
A theoretical OWR-6 would be about over 24 meters in width, but it would take up two tiles, hence 32 meters. 24 meters of width for asphalt, and the other 8 for sidewalks. Don't like having four meters of sidewalks on the sides? Compensate with grass.
Even if the lane measurements just so happen to be exactly 16 meters, it would still be a two-tiler. Not all Sims drive to work, you know; Some of them walk, and by making a road network whose lanes occupy exactly 16 meters, you will have no room for sidewalks, no way for your walking Sims to get to work, and a lot of complaints from NAM users who use the Park-n-Ride option saying there's pandemic unemployment.
* - 8.2 feet is nowhere near wide enough for trucks to drive on a road safely. How do I know that? Twyla. (This would also apply to non-highway roads, since trucks use those, too.)
Quote from: Twyla on April 14, 2011, 01:26:57 PM
Just some US dimensional info, in case anyone is interested:
A typical highway represented by RHW-6C is comprised of:
- Six Travel Lanes: 12-foot Minimum Width (each)
- Two Shoulders (aka Break-Down Lanes): 14-foot Minimum Width (each)
- Median Divider (w/Inner Shoulders): 6 to 14 feet in Total Width
This puts the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM allowable total width for common stretches of such a highway at 106 feet (32.31 meters or 2 SC4 Tiles). Due to safety reasons, very few areas (apart from dense urban areas) use these minimal widths. The default Maxis Highways (Ground an Elevated) conform to this, and you'll also notice that the speed limits on such roadways are usual around 70% normal (or feature strict lane regulations).
A more common arrangement uses 16-foot Travel Lanes, 20-foot Shoulders, and a 16-foot Median; total of 152 feet (46.33 meters or 3 SC4 Tiles) - making the existing RHW-6C pretty much balls-on accurate.
I know some people are surprised by these dimensions, but they fail to consider that trucks also have to be taken into consideration. A typical truck is 50% wider and 400% longer (8.5 feet wide and 85 feet long) than a typical car - and these are the everyday run-of-the-mill Common Carriers. Specialty carriers (including Doubles, Triples, and Crawlers) typically run 100% wider and more that 60% longer (11 feet wide and 120+ feet long) than a car. And let's not forget the Shanty Shakers with their 16-foot wide loads which can bring the total length to 170 feet or more!
Quote from: Tarkus on December 21, 2011, 06:14:06 PM
Not only have we noticed it, we've fixed it already with the Version 2.0.2 patch (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.0#post_Fixes). :thumbsup:
-Alex
Wow....I really should look around next time. Im such a newb :newbie:
@Ganaram, @cmdp123789
Not to mention that the scale you're using is BAT scale. The Transit Network scale is much larger at around one tile = 8m. That's the reason why scale-correct garages for LD-R are too small to fit Automata into them and why the streetlights are about three stories high.
One thing to remember is that Maxis had a lose grip on their scaling. Half of the time their buildings don't follow the 1 Tile = 16m rule and the intended height of overpasses is probably closer to 16 feet than 16 metres.
It wasn't meant to be realistic, just look at how it was in SC2K
We already covered this the last time this was asked in the RHW thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=990.msg395677#msg395677) about 3 months ago. I'm going to settle it once and for all.
Here's 6th Avenue (Avenue of the Americas) near W 18th Street in NYC. Keep in mind that 16m = about 52.48 ft., so the 50 ft. scale marker on Google Maps should be fairly close. Rotating the marker by to align it with the road, this is what you get.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg843.imageshack.us%2Fimg843%2F9025%2Fnycscaling12222011.jpg&hash=0894e648bcfbed353283e8f37ef28b62f68d5666)
Two 50ft. markers covers the full roadway and extrudes just a tad into the buildings. The road consists of 4 travel lanes, a bike lane, a strip of on-street parallel parking (which looks to be just a tiny bit narrower than the travel lanes in width) and sidewalks on either side. In other words, it's essentially an OWR-5 on which one of the car travel lanes has been set aside for bikes and parking.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg406.imageshack.us%2Fimg406%2F6553%2Fowr5122220111.jpg&hash=a6f0181beab4a546778f2e8eb29720ff99aeeda5)
The actual NYC example is probably somewhere between 96-100 feet rather than 104.96 ft. (the actual width of 2 tiles that the OWR-5 above fits in). But it's pretty darn close, especially considering that we have to do everything in 16m/52.48 ft. chunks due to game limitations.
I feel confident in saying we got the scaling right there.
-Alex
And I presume that the single lane alongside a RHW carriageway is the hard shoulder, a.k.a. emergency lane? Thanks for explaining the scaling, this work that the NAM Team have been doing is amazing! :thumbsup: &apls &apls
Quote from: DAB_City on December 22, 2011, 01:32:10 AM
And I presume that the single lane alongside a RHW carriageway is the hard shoulder, a.k.a. emergency lane?
It is. :)
You got it right Tarkus.
If you take your 5 lane plus sidewalks in the example above (the sidewalks are the same width as the lanes in your example) then essentially you have 104.96/7 which makes each lane and sidewalk 14.99 feet/~4.5m across.
Under US federal guidelines, the maximum width for a tractor trailer (excluding mirrors) is 102.36 inches or ~8.5 feet/2.6m.
Also, minimum lane width for a US interstate highway is 12 feet/3.6m...NWM is 15 feet/4.5m (per your example road).
I can find no fault in your scaling. In other words, the road scale in the NWM is spot on.
And well done NWM group! &apls
Can someone give me help with a OWR-5 setup? I've got something like this: Link (http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8632/layoutdq.jpg). It's nothing pretty ::)
I've got one direction on one side of the residents, and the other on the other side. My issue is with the turnaround, I can't seem to make OWR-5 turn. Thanks.
edit: nevermind :)
Quote from: Lowkee33 on January 03, 2012, 08:50:55 AM
Can someone give me help with a OWR-5 setup? I've got something like this: Link (http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8632/layoutdq.jpg). It's nothing pretty ::)
I've got one direction on one side of the residents, and the other on the other side. My issue is with the turnaround, I can't seem to make OWR-5 turn. Thanks.
edit: nevermind :)
What numbers are those you see at the zones? :o
An FYI--for those of you wanting to restore the DIPs allowing proper capacity increase on the MAVE-6, just download my old patch from 2010, found here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg343593#msg343593). That should get things back to working order.
If you get the "Commute Arrow Cascade"/"Teleportation"/"Catapult" with the Route Query, ignore it--it means nothing and is just a visual glitch.
-Alex
This is an excerpt from the Denver Ridge Times, October 29, Year 67:
Westside drivers are having a hard time coming around to make a turn at one local intersection. For unexplained reasons, nobody seems to be able to make a left turn at the intersection of Santinello Road and 32nd St/Denver Ridge Boulevard. Drivers are instead heading further west to 30th St in an unbuilt subdivision and making the U-turn to head back southbound.
This diagram from the Denver Ridge Department of Streets illustrates the problem:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg16.imageshack.us%2Fimg16%2F5869%2Fscreenshot20120107at829.png&hash=f62629d6df53af863451b37debf55d7c09bac6e5)
Engineers believe a short, perfunctory stub of 32nd Street north of Santinello will fix the problem.
(Excuse the VNC refresh rate.)
I can see the paths connect fine from that picture... Could you provide a larger picture taken in Zoom 6 and exactly from which direction they can't make a left turn?
Sadly, that city just crashed on me. It's from the right to the bottom of the picture. Everyone was going straight, turning onto a dead residential street, looping around, and coming back to make the turn off eastbound.
While fixing traffic problems in Delanese with the NWM, a couple of questions popped into my head when I came to this segment...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F2786%2Fnwmquestion.jpg&hash=d5bd5c4715ae5d9e6375520e774e2d92153acacf)
- I noticed when trying to replace the central avenue with a MAVE6 that grass appears between the road surface itself and the white pavers. Is it possible to custom-mod the MAVE6 to contain full white pavers on the sides of the road surface to prevent clashing? (purely a matter of looks, not function $%Grinno$% )
- Can NWM network interactions with roundabouts be supported in future updates, if such things are planned for the NWM?
The networks that I showed above all have red traffic congestion, so I'm trying to keep Delanese's 400K population moving whatever way I can. :-[
And one last question that has been in my head for several months: What is project 0E, and what is it meant to do? I'm very curious and I want to know more about what is being produced, but I cannot find any information on the mysterious project 0E. ()what()
Project 0E is explained here by Tarkus (Alex) Quoted by mrtnrln
Quote from: Tarkus
I'll give you a little more specifics about what is being done with Project 0E.
The entire IID range is being migrated from the 0x5E range to the 0x0E range (hence the name). Also as part of the process, some items are being rotated from their current position. The reason for the rotation is simple--consistency and ease of overriding. The ultra-stabilization you've seen in the initial Project 0E pics I've shown are the result of the rotation of items.
As far as the IID scheme change, it's a longer story. The whole 0x5E range is a colossal mess and has been for a long time. If you've ever tried to produce a third-party texture or T21 mod for the RHW, you've probably come to the same conclusion quite quickly.
0x5E was initially used by the old "ANT Plugin" (predecessor of the modern-day RHW-2) by the original batch of modders involved with the NAM, albeit it was with scheme based on the One-Way Road IID scheme and actually violated the NAM IID conventions of that time period (conventions that simply wouldn't work nowadays as they don't take into consideration the "draggable revolution"). After the RHW continued the violation with Version 1.2, several other IID schemes popped up between 1.3 and 2.0--some of which already had content produced using them--and there wasn't a clear consensus. So RHW Version 2.0 from 2008, which some consider the first "modern" RHW release, actually used a haphazard mishmash of about 4 different schemes. And we're still using the RHW 2.0 IID system today.
When superhands and I rebooted the NWM in 2009, basically from scratch, we had a clearer idea of what things needed to look like to properly and logically support a complex system of override networks. The NWM IID scheme has been a massive success for the most part, and the Project 0E-era RHW IID scheme is derived from it.
The only real NWM-related project that will tie into Project 0E, however, is the ultra-stabilization of RHW/NWM crosslinks.
-Alex
Quote from: shinkansen1 on January 15, 2012, 12:35:18 AM
I noticed when trying to replace the central avenue with a MAVE6 that grass appears between the road surface itself and the white pavers. Is it possible to custom-mod the MAVE6 to contain full white pavers on the sides of the road surface to prevent clashing?
The problem is that you're dealing with a "landlocked" network that won't touch any zoning at all (and therefore will not show any sidewalks). It's theoretically possible to modify the MAVE/RD-6 so that it shows its sidewalks all the time; It would, however, require texture modification.
Zoning is dependent on up to four textures, whose IIDs end in 0#, 1#, 2#, and 3#. To make sidewalks show all the time, you only need to modify the 0# texture.
Quote from: shinkansen1 on January 15, 2012, 12:35:18 AM
Can NWM network interactions with roundabouts be supported in future updates, if such things are planned for the NWM?
Only thing I can tell you that there's pretty much no concrete plans on NWM-RA interaction, especially with AVE-RAs.
Quote from: shinkansen1 on January 15, 2012, 12:35:18 AM
What is project 0E, and what is it meant to do?
That only concerns RHW. To condense what Will (tried to) explain down to two sentences, it's supposed to make the RHW IID/RUL coding and structure more neat and more stable, as well as move the RHW to a new IID range. It doesn't have to do with the NWM at all other than the fact that 0E's structure is based off of the NWM's RUL/IID structure.
Are there plans to:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg861.imageshack.us%2Fimg861%2F2273%2Fintersection.jpg&hash=56958af50066ded3d50e5c4739ec1cbdf5f0a430)
- Create elevated NWM puzzle pieces
- Create transition pieces for NMAVE-4
- Create intersection puzzle pieces for NMAVE-4 crossings
- Create rail/GLR crossings for NMAVE-4
While in other situations, using the road<-->NMAVE-4-auto-transition piece will be OK, in the situation depicted above, because of the lack of space it becomes unusable. For example:
- I really don't mind either having standard road or NMAVE-4 to cross over the highway there, but in the constricted area there, it would take up less space to be able to NMAVE-4 it across.
- Or to be able to plop a road <--> NMAVE-4 transition piece so I can widen (or narrow) the road in tight spaces.
- While (maybe) it's cosmetically important to have the road/NMAVE-4 intersection properly crosswalked, I'm more wondering about a plopable intersection that can accept NMAVE-4. I will probably ask about this more in depth in the TLEP forum, but it's in the picture and it's 4am and I'm still up and running on 4hrs sleep so I thought I'd mention it now in-case I forget.
- The NMAVE-4 is the only piece without transitions, intersections, and ground/EL rail/GLR/HSRP crossing plopers.
How much of this (if any) is in future plans? The NMAVE-4 is actually my favorite of all the 1x tile pieces in NWM. I had really been hoping to see them this time around so I could use it more :'(
I just came back to the game yesterday and thus only yesterday did I learn of the Sep. NAM World updates. I'm truly speechless. Y'all are fracking :satisfied:
Planned
Not Planned, don't hold your breath
No, not happening
Already Implemented, you just have to use Draggable GLR
As far as I'm aware, creation of new puzzle pieces for NWM transitions has been discontinued except where they are necessary, change of tile widths for example.
There are no plans for a Ploppable version of any NWM/RHW X Puzzle Piece Based GLR intersection, convert to Draggable GLR, you have plenty of space there.
Also, there already is a Road-to-NMAVE-4 puzzle piece transition included. Just TAB through the NWM Transitions ring--it's in there.
After seeing David's latest work with Triple-Track Rail work in 3RR, and wanting to take a change of pace from Project 0E, I was inspired to play around with a little something:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg267.imageshack.us%2Fimg267%2F3%2Fmave4scurvev2.png&hash=2bd694b4a144972c3aefa9a29f9a92cd4153d42b)
Textures are more or less done for S-Curves for all dual-tile NWM networks. Started on 45-degree ones as well. I don't anticipate the Wider OWR ones getting to the modding stage very quickly (mainly as there's some technical issues that need to be worked out there), but the rest are in the queue.
-Alex
Impressive work Tarkus, wide curves are just what the dual-tile NWM networks need. :thumbsup:
Are you planning any wide curves for the AVE-6 and TLA-7 by any chance? ;)
Quote from: jdenm8 on January 15, 2012, 06:43:35 AM
Planned
Not Planned, don't hold your breath
No, not happening
Already Implemented, you just have to use Draggable GLR
As far as I'm aware, creation of new puzzle pieces for NWM transitions has been discontinued except where they are necessary, change of tile widths for example.
There are no plans for a Ploppable version of any NWM/RHW X Puzzle Piece Based GLR intersection, convert to Draggable GLR, you have plenty of space there.
so no transition pieces for nmave 4 for the next release? It desperately needs some kind of ave transition - its kinda hard to use when you can only transition it to road..
Quote from: apeguy on January 15, 2012, 03:41:37 PM
Impressive work Tarkus, wide curves are just what the dual-tile NWM networks need. :thumbsup:
Are you planning any wide curves for the AVE-6 and TLA-7 by any chance? ;)
Thanks! And yes, I actually have a 45-degree curve texture laying around that Dave (
superhands) did around the time we did Version 1.0 . . . the plan is to make at least an S for those as well, and probably a 90 (though it'll take a long time to mod just because there's so many path files involved).
Quote from: Kitsune on January 15, 2012, 03:47:56 PM
so no transition pieces for nmave 4 for the next release? It desperately needs some kind of ave transition - its kinda hard to use when you can only transition it to road..
Not unless someone makes textures. NWM transitions can be difficult to texture because of the geometry.
Looks great Alex! &apls
Not a bad S-curve texture though that "kink" in the middle is a bit off-putting.
As for other network transitions: they will come with time.
WOW! really nice... I like it!
Quote from: Tarkus on January 15, 2012, 03:52:51 PM
Not unless someone makes textures. NWM transitions can be difficult to texture because of the geometry.
Here you are, Tarkus; all transitions are 2-by-2 tiles, with the top and bottom 128 pixel rows being unmodified reference textures.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg233.imageshack.us%2Fimg233%2F3415%2Fnmave4transitions.png&hash=6b1c4af598f15cda80110a3bfc43555411e14b1e)
On the subject of NWM transitions is NMAVE-4 to AVE-4 on the planning list? Usually when I build avenues as main arterial roads I make all the intersections avenues for a few tiles on either side(even if they only feed a low amount of traffic) to reduce traffic congestion. The problem then is that when I transition these side avenues into roads I get traffic congestion quite easily around the pinch points.
I prefer not to have too many avenues otherwise my high density suburbs end up looking like a spaghetti of asphalt. Replacing roads with NMAVE-4 is a nice alternative to demolishing lots of building to place avenues everywhere.
Thanks
Quote from: michi_cc on January 16, 2012, 04:33:58 PM
Quote from: Tarkus on January 15, 2012, 03:52:51 PM
Not unless someone makes textures. NWM transitions can be difficult to texture because of the geometry.
Here you are, Tarkus; all transitions are 4-by-4 tiles, with the top and bottom 128 pixel rows being unmodified reference textures.
michi_cc, my friend, you are officially awesome! Those textures look fantastic and will be extremely useful--thank you so much! :thumbsup: Have a +1 K-point on my behalf.
Quote from: Lach77 on January 17, 2012, 05:22:50 AM
On the subject of NWM transitions is NMAVE-4 to AVE-4 on the planning list?
See the post above me. We now have textures for one, all thanks to michi_cc, so there will definitely be one. :)
And on another note, things are progressing on the S-Curves. The MAVE-4 one is pathed (though I may still adjust it a little--and it needs color correction) and the rest are RULed.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg26.imageshack.us%2Fimg26%2F1017%2Fnwm011720111.jpg&hash=2276c0ad05209d026f03cc3a347c8ab9f9bcea5f)
The TLA-5 S-Curve
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg27.imageshack.us%2Fimg27%2F4527%2Fnwm011720112.jpg&hash=a5cfc4653efdfea7580ef1511803e26b2b9f3171)
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on January 17, 2012, 12:56:00 PM
Those textures look fantastic and will be extremely useful--thank you so much!
Any other important missing pieces? I very much fail on drawing something completely from scratch, but such geometric manipulations/mash ups are something I find quite easy.
Michael
Great work michi_cc and Alex! &apls
Quote from: michi_cc on January 17, 2012, 01:25:54 PM
Any other important missing pieces? I very much fail on drawing something completely from scratch, but such geometric manipulations/mash ups are something I find quite easy.
Michael
I'd love to see MAVE-6 to AVE-6 transitions if it's not too much trouble!
That New Mave-4 and TLA-5 S-curves look great. I guessing there will be NMAVE-4 curves as well. By the way one suggestion, I think a Ave-6 to Dual OWR-3 would be a pretty cool addition.
Quote from: michi_cc on January 16, 2012, 04:33:58 PM
Quote from: Tarkus on January 15, 2012, 03:52:51 PM
Not unless someone makes textures. NWM transitions can be difficult to texture because of the geometry.
Here you are, Tarkus; all transitions are 4-by-4 tiles, with the top and bottom 128 pixel rows being unmodified reference textures.
Fantastic! NMAVE-4 transitions are at the top of my hope-list, right above NWM Bus Stops (please RTMT team please!)
Thanks.
Quote from: michi_cc on January 17, 2012, 01:25:54 PM
Quote from: Tarkus on January 17, 2012, 12:56:00 PM
Those textures look fantastic and will be extremely useful--thank you so much!
Any other important missing pieces? I very much fail on drawing something completely from scratch, but such geometric manipulations/mash ups are something I find quite easy.
Michael
Thank you so much for the offer--I really, really appreciate it (as does I'm sure just about every NWM user out there)! :thumbsup: I think the ones Noah and sitejunction mentioned are solid possibilities.
Quote from: sitejunction on January 17, 2012, 02:03:48 PM
I guessing there will be NMAVE-4 curves as well.
There will. Same repertoire of curves that exists for the TLA-3, AVE-2, and ARD-3 (S, 45, and large and small 90). As I also resurrected my old OWR-2 curves last night, trying to work out the OneWayDir flag quirks, once those are done I should be able to finish the OWR-1 and OWR-3 curves.
Quote from: grumbs64 on January 17, 2012, 02:57:01 PM
right above NWM Bus Stops (please RTMT team please!)
From what I know from the RTMT folks I've talked to, they've been working very hard on them for quite some time. It's a pretty exhaustive set they're doing, too, so it'll definitely be worth the wait. :)
-Alex
AVE-6 to MAVE-6 and AVE-6 to OWR-3. Not sure if the shorter or the longer transitions will look better in-game.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg707.imageshack.us%2Fimg707%2F7728%2Fave6transitions.png&hash=892cdd47489b30a703dbf0bffa7cc7d3f1a3f4d5)
Quote from: michi_cc on January 17, 2012, 03:58:18 PM
Not sure if the shorter or the longer transitions will look better in-game.
I'm more in favor of the longer transitions, though the short AVE-6 to MAVE-6 transition isn't that cramped.
Now to complete the list of 6-lane road transitions are MAVE-6 and OWR-3 transitions to TLA-7.
Great work! &apls
My vote is definitely for the smoother ones :thumbsup:
Nice transitions! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I'd go for the longer ones. Although the short ones are good, and are better for dense cities, the longer ones are more realistic. :)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on January 17, 2012, 04:24:28 PM
Now to complete the list of 6-lane road transitions are MAVE-6 and OWR-3 transitions to TLA-7.
OWR-3 to TLA-7 doesn't really need drawing anything new, just stick the AVE-6 to TLA-7 transition tile directly at the top. TLA-7 to MAVE-6 is just some grey infill, but still:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg692.imageshack.us%2Fimg692%2F6049%2Ftla7mave6.png&hash=dd5bad974426b6cf3c2e1ba876a6344e8b7baa71)
Quote from: michi_cc on January 17, 2012, 05:20:24 PM
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on January 17, 2012, 04:24:28 PM
Now to complete the list of 6-lane road transitions are MAVE-6 and OWR-3 transitions to TLA-7.
OWR-3 to TLA-7 doesn't really need drawing anything new, just stick the AVE-6 to TLA-7 transition tile directly at the top. TLA-7 to MAVE-6 is just some grey infill, but still:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg692.imageshack.us%2Fimg692%2F6049%2Ftla7mave6.png&hash=dd5bad974426b6cf3c2e1ba876a6344e8b7baa71)
That is the one transition I have been wanting the longest.
You are awesome!!!!
Holy smokes, you are fast! :thumbsup: Those are just absolutely amazing--thank you so much. &dance
As far as the long vs. short, the short one looks like a good candidate for a draggable setup, while the long one can serve as a puzzle piece.
-Alex
Those textures look awesome. Thank you for making them! I look forward to seeing them in-game.
Michi those transitions are awesome! That fills a big part of what is currently missing from the NWM. Now I can look forward to improving loads of intersections in my cities
I don't have wifi for 2 days and already most NWM curves are done!
I did post various textures for transitions a few pages back that might be useful :):
Quote from: Dexter on September 29, 2011, 12:35:19 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg200.imageshack.us%2Fimg200%2F7374%2Fmave4toroad1.png&hash=348bdb1a44cfcee2f082c0c04df0891a3e117797)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg84.imageshack.us%2Fimg84%2F1378%2Fmave4torhw1a.png&hash=bbbe1b4b29fb50e796585361000cf2e0d1b82766)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg716.imageshack.us%2Fimg716%2F2244%2Fmave6toroad1.png&hash=027e9f5c6e7817e3ae3c60f10820901acfe107c8)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg10.imageshack.us%2Fimg10%2F5923%2Fmave4toroadnmave4.png&hash=f959f713f2d274410b78dbd4067ac53309a15449)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg714.imageshack.us%2Fimg714%2F4059%2Ftla5totla32.png&hash=16ade38f3d0dd64ebeb5a8d96eba01fddd6c005b)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg840.imageshack.us%2Fimg840%2F9376%2Favetonmavepng.png&hash=c245276ac9c33f54839424d88a0629ca358c6e73)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg864.imageshack.us%2Fimg864%2F3646%2Ftla5tonmavepng.png&hash=2f5366a8d616ae0315e054be2d5876610654a9d4)
Best,
-Matt
They look great! The only thing I dislike is the abrupt ending of the bike line (or whatever it is) on the first transition.
Quote from: io_bg on January 18, 2012, 10:33:06 AM
They look great! The only thing I dislike is the abrupt ending of the bike line (or whatever it is) on the first transition.
I actually like it with the abrupt ending. If those side lanes are for parking (you can think of them as bike lanes or whatever you want) then it reminds me of something I had heard when I lived in Milwaukee--which is having the streets with parking on the sides narrow at intersections, which serves to slow traffic and increase property values in "renewing" neighborhoods.
But I digress--I'm sure this has been discussed before, but would it be possible to have timed-T21'ed parked car props on the shoulders of MAVE-4s and AVE-6s, similar to a sidestreet MOD, were someone to do the legwork?
I'm just now making the upgrade to the new NWM (Looks awesome BTW ;D). I've got the NWM_2.0.2_Patch. Do I still need my old MAVE-6_Fix and NWM_Test_09072010 patches as well. I see they are no longer attached to the first post.
No, you shouldn't need them as those changes have been included in the updated NWM--have fun playing with the newest NAM :thumbsup:
Quote from: io_bg on January 18, 2012, 10:33:06 AM
They look great! The only thing I dislike is the abrupt ending of the bike line (or whatever it is) on the first transition.
I think the purpose of that shoulder/parking/bike lane is so the MAVE-4 and TLA-7/AVE-6 take up more space. Ever wonder how much of an eyesore having too much side grass would be if they didn't have those buffer areas? If those buffer areas were standard, they'd also appear on the AVE-4, RD-6, and AVE-8, though they can't due to space restrictions.
Prototypes of the MAVE-4/RD-4 didn't have that shoulder area, actually.
Quote
But I digress--I'm sure this has been discussed before, but would it be possible to have timed-T21'ed parked car props on the shoulders of MAVE-4s and AVE-6s, similar to a sidestreet MOD, were someone to do the legwork?
Yes.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on January 18, 2012, 06:13:51 PMI think the purpose of that shoulder/parking/bike lane is so the MAVE-4 and TLA-7/AVE-6 take up more space. Ever wonder how much of an eyesore having too much side grass would be if they didn't have those buffer areas? If those buffer areas were standard, they'd also appear on the AVE-4, RD-6, and AVE-8, though they can't due to space restrictions.
Prototypes of the MAVE-4/RD-4 didn't have that shoulder area, actually.
That was my guess too. I meant that this particular lane ends quite abruptly, it could be merged like this (sorry for my poor drawing skills)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.ipicture.ru%2Fuploads%2F20120119%2F6gKvDJOJ.png&hash=f22aa45c3f92b9a8dbf2498bde88b53f4e8fe476)
Quote from: io_bg on January 19, 2012, 03:10:03 AM
I meant that this particular lane ends quite abruptly, it could be merged like this
Agreed, but I was defining the "Whatever it is" you were saying before.
Quote from: io_bg on January 18, 2012, 10:33:06 AM
They look great! The only thing I dislike is the abrupt ending of the bike line (or whatever it is) on the first transition.
The NRD-4/RD-4 transition is fairly high on the list of new items I'm looking forward to in the next release. Of course, the prospect of OWR curves is quite exciting as well. Good work!
&apls
An in-progress look from last night on the TLA-5 S-Curve pathing.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg215.imageshack.us%2Fimg215%2F9553%2Fnwm011920121.jpg&hash=38231920ade046447d2df4e40c0a670311267341)
The obvious errors on there have now been fixed. I'm also working on an AVE-4 S-Curve (though its textures are still not particularly appealing aesthetically).
And between Matt (
Dexter) and Michael (
michi_cc), it looks like we're going to have a lot of very useful new transitions this next go around--again, my sincere thanks to you guys! :thumbsup:
Based on the current trajectory of development, this is kind of how things are shaping up tentatively for the next update. I should also add that NWM 2.0 was actually the "last" NWM release . . . all this stuff will be part of the NAM proper next go-around.
WHAT WILL MOST LIKELY BE INCLUDED
- A number of new transitions, including ortho RD-2-to-4, RHW-2-to-RD-4, NRD-4-to-RD-4, NRD-4-to-AVE-4, NRD-4-to-TLA-5, TLA-3-to-5, RD-6-to-AVE-6, RD-6-to-TLA-7, possibly more.
- Wide-Radius Curves for OWR-1, OWR-3, OWR-4, OWR-5, TLA-5, TLA-7, AVE-6, RD-4, RD-6 and NRD-4.
- Additions to TuLEPs, including Slip Lanes for NWM networks, Dual-Left for AVE-6/TLA-7, and Right-Only lanes for RD-6.
- Basic elevated functionality for appropriate networks.
- Basic bridges for appropriate networks (some may require a DBE-type setup or alternate-network workarounds).
- Filler pieces (both ortho and diag, especially since shared-tile diagonals can't use starters).
- Basic set of signalized intersection pieces for OWR-3, 4 and 5.
- Name change on some networks: All "MAVE" networks will become "RD" networks: MAVE-4 becomes RD-4, MAVE-6 becomes RD-6, and NMAVE-4 becomes NRD-4.
BEING CONSIDERED
- Possibility of conversion to by-network menu setup.
WHAT WILL MOST LIKELY NOT BE INCLUDED (but considered for future releases)
- More diagonal intersections.
- Fractional Angle NWM Networks.
- TLA-9/AVE-8 networks and their asymmetrical counterparts.
- OWR-6 network (dual-tile).
- Road-based AVE-4 with split tile diagonals (TLA-5 style).
- OWR-1 conversion to Street-based network.
- Dual-tile asymmetrical networks (e.g. TLA-4, which will likely have a puzzle piece implementation).
- FlexSPUI and DDI variants for AVE-6/TLA-7 (on the RHW side).
- MIS Ramp interfaces for NWM networks (mostly for Parclo applications).
- T-RAM interfacing.
- Maxis Highway/NWM interchanges (lowest priority, especially with JD's revamp underway).
WHAT IS NOT UNDER CONSIDERATION
- Any more single-tile networks (other than elevated variants).
WHAT WILL BE UP TO THIRD PARTIES/NOT INCLUDED IN THE PACKAGE ITSELF
- Any alternate texture sets (e.g. Euro textures).
- Any sort of T21 mod beyond the very basics (as we don't intend to introduce external dependencies).
- Any sort of Lot-based items, such as a station (RTMT is taking care of that).
-Alex[/list]
A lot of exciting stuff :thumbsup: Thanks for putting this nice list together.
Quick clarification on things I didn't see addressed: Are OWR-2 wide-radius curves planned? Any OWR TuLEPs?
Bummer about the T-RAM side of things. Any chance of basic integration if I could create textures (TIAxTuLEP intersections being what I had in mind)?
Quote from: noahclem on January 19, 2012, 03:25:09 PM
Quick clarification on things I didn't see addressed: Are OWR-2 wide-radius curves planned? Any OWR TuLEPs?
They're kind of outside the scope of the NWM, but yes and yes. The OWR-2 ones will be done before the other ones, mainly as I need to figure them out first in order to get the other ones working.
Quote from: noahclem on January 19, 2012, 03:25:09 PM
Bummer about the T-RAM side of things. Any chance of basic integration if I could create textures (TIAxTuLEP intersections being what I had in mind)?
If there's textures in place, then I'd say the chances are much, much higher. :)
-Alex
Will the NAM 31 include all the other components in the installer? Also will the HSPR and SAM and RAM (I suppose that's their [RAM Team] choice) etc updated? That would be nie but I suppose that's lots of model based items and re texturing
Quote from: Will12 on January 19, 2012, 04:49:24 PM
Will the NAM 31 include all the other components in the installer? Also will the HSPR and SAM and RAM (I suppose that's their [RAM Team] choice) etc updated? That would be nie but I suppose that's lots of model based items and re texturing
All of those are planned to be merged into the NAM proper. I'm not sure how much updating there will be to HSRP and SAM (mostly "maintenance mode" gap-filling, as those projects haven't been particularly active for quite some time), but they'll be in, and it'll make it easier for us to make incremental updates to them as needed.
(Oh, and by the way, happy birthday to you. :thumbsup:)
-Alex
Thanks for the list, it's good to know some of the things what we can expect in NAM 31. :thumbsup:
A little more new stuff . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg192.imageshack.us%2Fimg192%2F9106%2Fnwm012020122.jpg&hash=68791b357084e8923d31c46511ffef7c521a56e4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.imageshack.us%2Fimg3%2F136%2Fnwm012020121.jpg&hash=3d091015ccba6cf512ed372789575badbce35d40)
-Alex
Oh man its getting good now :)
Great job Tarkus, that is awesome
ah yes, very nice
can't wait
Those would be nice to have instead of converting it to a RHW 6-C every time I need a larger overpass.
That's suprising! I definitely can use one of those :thumbsup: keep 'em coming!
Quote from: mrtnrln on January 21, 2012, 03:52:25 AM
That's suprising! I definitely can use one of those :thumbsup: keep 'em coming!
Another update to his cities with a music video will follow after the completion :)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg192.imageshack.us%2Fimg192%2F9106%2Fnwm012020122.jpg&hash=68791b357084e8923d31c46511ffef7c521a56e4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.imageshack.us%2Fimg3%2F136%2Fnwm012020121.jpg&hash=3d091015ccba6cf512ed372789575badbce35d40)
Lord, Alex this is just perfectly good.
I wonder whether it will be dragable or likeness of EAVE-4 will be built with the help of puzzle pieces. Is some are also elevated networks Maxi's switch to dragable version. In my humble opinion E'TLA-9 must have a barrier in the middle because it is too dangerous to make a U-turn there. The need for AVE-6 elevation is almost meaningless, since for this purpose have already ERHW-6C which does the same job. I also want to express my special congratulations to Matt (Dexter) for his amazing textures. He has demonstrated his gift before the time when I asked for something special. So if you need people to pieces splitter Matt and Michael are the right people for this task. I'm always happy to see pictures of new things that are a work in progress, this share without worrying.
- Ivo
Quote from: ivo_su on January 21, 2012, 03:02:43 PM
I wonder whether it will be dragable or likeness of EAVE-4 will be built with the help of puzzle pieces.
Draggable, most likely.
Quote from: ivo_su on January 21, 2012, 03:02:43 PM
In my humble opinion E'TLA-9 must have a barrier in the middle because it is too dangerous to make a U-turn there. The need for AVE-6 elevation is almost meaningless, since for this purpose have already ERHW-6C which does the same job.
ETLA-7, though it may already be EAVE-6, and I think the EAVE-6 IS needed for the sake of capacity consistency, and that you'd need to convert to 6C, which can take up space, depending on things like space restrictions.
L2 RHW-6C, L2 TLA-7 (minus the turn paths), and L2 AVE-6 have no functional differences, so why bother with making a ETLA/EAVE when you could just use just the 6C? Because people want one, and it adds functional and aesthetic consistency. Also, most RHWs don't have ped paths, so you can't just use elevated RHWs in place of elevated non-RHW networks; How will pedestrians get around?
I've been wanting some AVE-6 overpasses. So thank you very much! &apls &dance
I was wondering, is it possible to do a draggable AVE-2 or TLA-3 to AVE-4 transition, similar to what is currently possible to transition between Maxis roads and avenues? The extended transition puzzle piece is fine, but when I drive (in the US), I rarely see transitions that long, especially when there are extra lanes near busy intersections.
If not, it's no big deal, but it's something on my wish list.
As always, you guys are great and I appreciate your work.
Quote from: itsacoaster on January 21, 2012, 05:34:13 PM
I've been wanting some AVE-6 overpasses. So thank you very much! &apls &dance
I was wondering, is it possible to do a draggable AVE-2 or TLA-3 to AVE-4 transition, similar to what is currently possible to transition between Maxis roads and avenues? The extended transition puzzle piece is fine, but when I drive (in the US), I rarely see transitions that long, especially when there are extra lanes near busy intersections.
If not, it's no big deal, but it's something on my wish list.
As always, you guys are great and I appreciate your work.
It should be possible to create the transition you suggest. However, I'm really confused about how you could be more familiar with shorter transitions in RL. Have you ever looked at googlemaps and seen a road with a similar profile to the current RD-2-to-AVE-4 transition? I understand that not everyone plays SC4 with the intent of keeping everything to a realistic scale--and that's really great if they're having fun--but I don't think the length of the transition your suggesting can be fairly called realistic.
Quote from: itsacoaster on January 21, 2012, 05:34:13 PM
I was wondering, is it possible to do a draggable AVE-2 or TLA-3 to AVE-4 transition, similar to what is currently possible to transition between Maxis roads and avenues?
Theoretically possible, but depending on the RULing, not as pretty.
In fact, because how short the RD-2 to AVE-4 transition was, I believe a longer ploppable version was once proposed.
Quote from: Tarkus on January 19, 2012, 05:19:27 PM
Quote from: Will12 on January 19, 2012, 04:49:24 PM
Will the NAM 31 include all the other components in the installer? Also will the HSPR and SAM and RAM (I suppose that's their [RAM Team] choice) etc updated? That would be nie but I suppose that's lots of model based items and re texturing
All of those are planned to be merged into the NAM proper. I'm not sure how much updating there will be to HSRP and SAM (mostly "maintenance mode" gap-filling, as those projects haven't been particularly active for quite some time), but they'll be in, and it'll make it easier for us to make incremental updates to them as needed.
(Oh, and by the way, happy birthday to you. :thumbsup:)
-Alex
Thanks Alex. Great el networks and can't wait for them all to be draggable!!! Ave2-ave4 would be less tight than the rd to ave one and you still keep the median? That would be good!
Quote from: noahclem on January 21, 2012, 06:17:42 PMIt should be possible to create the transition you suggest. However, I'm really confused about how you could be more familiar with shorter transitions in RL. Have you ever looked at googlemaps and seen a road with a similar profile to the current RD-2-to-AVE-4 transition? I understand that not everyone plays SC4 with the intent of keeping everything to a realistic scale--and that's really great if they're having fun--but I don't think the length of the transition your suggesting can be fairly called realistic.
You have a point: the grid in SC4 prevents you from taking a one-tile network and transitioning to the 2-tile network in a short distance because one direction of travel has to move over an entire tile, whereas, in real life, the center line doesn't really move in the transition from 2 (or 3) lanes to 4. Those kinds of transitions like the RD-AVE4 seem pretty uncommon, except in some cases where adjacent property might cause some space issues. If somehow the road was centered on two tiles maybe it would make more sense to have a short transition. But it's not, and I understand the need to have a smooth transition to move from one tile to an adjacent one.
So forget I said anything. :D Maybe this came out of the minor annoyance of digging out a puzzle piece to transition from TLA-3 to AVE-4. I'm sure I'll get over it. :P
ADDED: I just thought of a transition like the one you fine folks have drawn up:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=lincoln+ne&hl=en&ll=40.770743,-96.682228&spn=0.001436,0.002918&sll=40.935692,-98.354652&sspn=0.011525,0.023346&vpsrc=6&hnear=Lincoln,+Lancaster,+Nebraska&t=h&z=19
Property on the east side of the transition led to a smoother TLA-3 to AVE-4 transition where the center line slides a little bit to the west. So I now understand where you're coming from.
No worries :thumbsup: --and it was fun poking around Lincoln, NE
Quote from: mike3775 on January 21, 2012, 06:17:55 AM
Another update to his cities with a music video will follow after the completion :)
It just might . . . been awhile since Tarkusian Cities Update 50. :)
Quote from: ivo_su on January 21, 2012, 03:02:43 PM
I wonder whether it will be dragable or likeness of EAVE-4 will be built with the help of puzzle pieces. Is some are also elevated networks Maxi's switch to dragable version. In my humble opinion E'TLA-9 must have a barrier in the middle because it is too dangerous to make a U-turn there. The need for AVE-6 elevation is almost meaningless, since for this purpose have already ERHW-6C which does the same job.
The content seen in those pics is in puzzle piece form at the moment. It'll exist most likely in both puzzle and draggable form, as there's seems to be utility for both. There's been talk about making the EAVE-4, ERD-2 and EOWR-2 draggable as well for a long time, and I'd imagine that'll probably happen in the not too distant future.
The EAVE-6 serves a lot of different purposes not served by the ERHW-6C as well:
a) As Ganaram mentioned, the ERHW-6C does not allow pedestrians.
b) The EAVE-6 be able to make intersections and function like the EAVE-4 pieces in that regard (e.g. you can use them to build a diamond interchange, as there will be EMIS/EAVE-6 intersection pieces).
c) The EAVE-6 will have lower capacity and cost.
-Alex
Is it possible to keep the maxis ave median flora on the elevated networks for ave 2,4 & 6? &idea
Quote from: Will12 on January 22, 2012, 04:52:17 PM
Is it possible to keep the maxis ave median flora on the elevated networks for ave 2,4 & 6? &idea
You could via T21s, but how common is that? When do you have trees growing on a bridge? Shrubbery, maybe, but probably not trees, as far as I can tell.
Just to blend in with the other avenues. Sometimes I use them as to make my city look greener and having lumps of concrete ramps looks kinda outta place. Yeah no trees. Bt maybe shrubs.
If we must talk about medians of EAVE-6 it is definitely not going to have soil on a bridge in order to have any plants in there. I now think of one possible way with the help of tile paving in the middle of the boulevard. On it can have lighting, and vases or jars with vegetation. Such a method I've seen in a TE-Lot of ILL'tonkso here (http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/11636-avenue-underpass/)
And my response to Alex and Ganaram is as follows:
- I am a big fan of wide avenues with 6 / 8 lanes and more of the EL-NWM but because maybe it will be a gradual process is more logical to start from the most necessary. I understand that probably needs el-AVE/TLA-6/7 for me personally but for now we consumers have a solution. Far more tangible need to be tested EOWR-3/4/5 that can do similar work as the AVE / TLA and when they are parallel to each other have a natural barrier in the middle. For me this is a clone of the right, but again I say I just share my opinion and the final choice is only to Alex - who actually deal with this.
And last I want to insert opinion for pedestrians, El-networks. How do you think they will get on and off of these pavements, the second level and why does it move the earth. It seems too uncomfortable.
Thank you for your attention
- Ivo
I can only type out a response more effectively while on a Qwerty keyboard, so,...
Quote from: ivo_su on January 22, 2012, 06:09:24 PM
If we must talk about medians of EAVE-6 it is definitely not going to have soil on a bridge in order to have any plants in there. I now think of one possible way with the help of tile paving in the middle of the boulevard. On it can have lighting, and vases or jars with vegetation.
Keep in mind: These things are not standard with the NAM itself, so your message would have to go to a third-party T-21 maker, and I just so happen to be one. I could just copy over the lights and selected shrubbery to the EAVE-6, but you're essentially putting a giant metal pole and plants in the middle of asphalt. Not very pretty, not very safe, and not too structurally sound, unless you change the textures (also, a third-party thing) so that it's a concrete barrier instead of yellow lines.
Quote from: ivo_su on January 22, 2012, 06:09:24 PM
And last I want to insert opinion for pedestrians, El-networks. How do you think they will get on and off of these pavements, the second level and why does it move the earth. It seems too uncomfortable.
If you're just using EAVE-6's for the purpose of going over a highway, then you have every reason to allow pedestrian sidewalks, as with cars.
And they'll get on and off the same way cars get on and off: Using the transition pieces and on-slope pieces that (will eventually) come with the EAVE-6.
Best example of an EAVE-6 with elevated crossings I can find at the moment: http://maps.google.com/?ll=33.785802,-116.354112&spn=0.001907,0.002642&t=h&z=19&vpsrc=6
Quote from: Tarkus on January 15, 2012, 02:56:03 PM
Also, there already is a Road-to-NMAVE-4 puzzle piece transition included. Just TAB through the NWM Transitions ring--it's in there.
Here's a screenie of all of the pieces in the transitions tab. Road to NMAVE-4 is not among them(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg88.imageshack.us%2Fimg88%2F2393%2Fnwmtransitionpieces.jpg&hash=2820e1a57ff164ad96cc4056889b92f42b7ffbf3) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/nwmtransitionpieces.jpg/)
That's odd.
But I've figured out why it's not showing up. The piece was completed during NWM Version 1 development, but it was disabled/commented out in the RotationRing definition in the NAM Controller RUL0 file then, as the NMAVE-4 had been scrapped for that release. Somehow, it didn't get re-enabled during NWM Version 2 development (and wasn't caught until 5 months after the release), so while the piece is otherwise there and finished, it can't be accessed.
Fixing it basically just requires me to delete a semicolon (";") in the Controller file. But because it's a Controller file issue, it's not something where I can simply release a patch for it. It'd require compiling and releasing an entirely new public controller build, something we usually don't do apart from new NAM release cycles.
-Alex
Quote from: areppon on January 22, 2012, 08:53:07 PM
Quote from: Tarkus on January 15, 2012, 02:56:03 PM
Also, there already is a Road-to-NMAVE-4 puzzle piece transition included. Just TAB through the NWM Transitions ring--it's in there.
Here's a screenie of all of the pieces in the transitions tab. Road to NMAVE-4 is not among them
I have no trouble getting a transition between road and NMAVE4. All that is required is to get the end stubs of both networks next to each other, and the transition will automatically appear. Also, from what I have read earlier, network transition puzzle pieces are only really required for transitions between networks of varying width. For the time being, unless the method I suggested does not work, you should be able to get the transition you wish.
Bam.
Resized to width 800. Click image to view full size (1366x768).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2Fother%2Fnew_city-28_mar.__001327460752.jpg&hash=af555516e4f9e2ff3dd2a80c737930cbc4a6e367)
Great work. Im sure you know but it Needs shadowing doesn't it?
I'm not entirely sure of the shadowing process on those pieces, so I cannot add them myself.
That's great! Will similar ones be made for wider NWM networks (RD-4, RD-6, AVE-6 and such)? And for tram-in-road/avenue? ;D
RD-4 and TLA-5 certainly are on the list, AVE-6/8 is a possibility, but TLA-7/9 is undecided, it's a really long way to go without a pylon.
At the moment, I'm only doing NWM ones, others are currently outside the scope, but I may do them.
Great work JD &apls
Since it's half NWM I'll post what I've been working on over here too:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi779.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy77%2Fnoahclem%2FAVExRD_TULEP_128x2.png&hash=086f8c0b08a22ee61a5001d6ee2f592ee6e9bf94)
This texture (which may yet be tweaked a bit) should work for RD2 TuLEPxTIA, ARD3xTIA, and OWR3xTIA. I'm hoping to end up with a set including most or all of the NWM networks interfacing with TIA and maybe TIR. This is just a texture so far with no paths or RULing, though I might take a stab at turning it into an actual puzzle piece. Otherwise it's been implied that someone else may be willing to do the work on that end for me.
Quote from: shinkansen1 on January 22, 2012, 11:43:01 PM
I have no trouble getting a transition between road and NMAVE4. All that is required is to get the end stubs of both networks next to each other, and the transition will automatically appear. Also, from what I have read earlier, network transition puzzle pieces are only really required for transitions between networks of varying width. For the time being, unless the method I suggested does not work, you should be able to get the transition you wish.
I appreciate your suggestion, and in many situations you're correct. However in some situations, because of space requirements (refer to the screenshot on page 137) or other issues it is not always feasible to use that method. For example, in situation #1 (in the screenie), when dealing with tunnel entrance, because of the EXE's limit of only being able to have one tunnel entrance, conversion is necessary. In that place (#1) where there is an intersection immediately after the tunnel exit, the intersection interferes with the ability to convert between road + NMAVE-4 with the method, as the intersection will cause reversion to one style or the other. This is where the plop-able piece becomes necessary. My desire for that particular road is to have it be NMAVE-4 from around the GLR crossing all the way across the freeway into that neighborhood there. Since there is yet elevated NWM pieces I must convert somewhere between the intersection and the freeway. The required S-curve (because of the freeway's design) also interferes with the end-to-end conversion method.
@Tarkus:
Well that makes sense. Is it simple enough for me to be able edit myself by opening the file in notepad and uncommenting the required line? If so What is the file name, where do I find it, and how can I identify the correct line to edit?
Quote from: areppon on January 25, 2012, 07:10:38 PM
@Tarkus:
Well that makes sense. Is it simple enough for me to be able edit myself by opening the file in notepad and uncommenting the required line? If so What is the file name, where do I find it, and how can I identify the correct line to edit?
The file's actually contained within another .dat file, so you'll need to use
ilive's Reader in order to access it. While the older Version 0.93 release that's on the LEX is more stable (and I still use it for most applications), the newer Version 1.x releases (including the current Version 1.4 release) added a "Find" feature that operates on RUL files, so for your purposes, I'd recommend picking up that version. All the links are
here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10417.0), including the link to the Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable that you might need if you haven't already picked it up.
You'd need to find the file called "NetworkAddonMod_Controller_RIGHT_HAND_VERSION.dat" in your Plugins\Network Addon Mod folder and open it up in the Reader. You should see 5 "subfiles" listed in the .dat in the second pane from the left--a DIR file, an LTEXT file, and 3 RUL files. You'll want to expand that second pane out--find the divider between the two (your cursor should change to two arrows) and drag right to be able to see more of it.
You'll want to find the file that is listed under the "Instance" column as "10000000"--when it opens shows up in the rightmost pane, it should say "[IntersectionOrdering]" at the very top. Click the binocular icon, and type in "7B55". This will take you to the "AddTypes" entry for that piece in the NWM Transitions RotationRing. The line should look something like this:
;AddTypes = 7B55, 17B55, 27B55, 37B55, 47B55, 57B55, 67B55, 77B55, 87B55, 97B55, A7B55, B7B55, C7B55, D7B55, E7B55, F7B55 ;Road-to-NMAVE-4 Transition
Delete the semicolon in front of the word AddTypes, and then hit the disk icon to save the RUL file. This should enable the transition. Be careful not to do anything else to the file, or else you could end up corrupting it, and breaking your NAM installation.
Hope that helps!
-Alex
Thank you Alex. Your instructions were concise and easily followed. I already have the reader (1.4) and normally use it to adjust the properties of lots I make, so the operation was painless. However uncommenting the xxB55 line removed all but Road->TLA-3, Road -> Ave-2, Road -> ARD-3, OWR-1 -> OWR-2, and OWR-2 -> OWR-3. NMAVE-4 did not appear.
The reader would not allow me to re-comment that line, so I did have to reinstall the main NAM component to revert it. Again, painless.
I know you're busy so if you don't have the time to spend on this I can wait and hopefully it'll make it with the next release.
Thank you
-Ryuji
QuoteThank you Alex. Your instructions were concise and easily followed. I already have the reader (1.4) and normally use it to adjust the properties of lots I make, so the operation was painless. However uncommenting the xxB55 line removed all but Road->TLA-3, Road -> Ave-2, Road -> ARD-3, OWR-1 -> OWR-2, and OWR-2 -> OWR-3. NMAVE-4 did not appear.
The reader would not allow me to re-comment that line, so I did have to reinstall the main NAM component to revert it. Again, painless.
I know you're busy so if you don't have the time to spend on this I can wait and hopefully it'll make it with the next release.
If you extract the file from the main .dat (right-click on RUL0, go to Save Decoded File...), open the file in Notepad or something similar, you can then modify it without losing anything.
This may or may not be in NWM's locker, but is it possible that the OWR-2 have smooth curves? The OWR-2 has been a very useful asset for increasing traffic flow in crowded cities. I've seen the MAVE-4 & -6 have exceptional curves, and other road-ways such as the roads themselves have beautiful curves... So I wonder... Why hasn't there been any smooth curves created for OWR-2? If they are in production, will they be out in the next release?
Thanks,
Original
The good news is that Alex is in fact working on OWR-2 smooth curves once again. More info can be found earlier in this thread[linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg410545#msg410545). :)
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on January 25, 2012, 11:00:55 PM
QuoteThank you Alex. Your instructions were concise and easily followed. I already have the reader (1.4) and normally use it to adjust the properties of lots I make, so the operation was painless. However uncommenting the xxB55 line removed all but Road->TLA-3, Road -> Ave-2, Road -> ARD-3, OWR-1 -> OWR-2, and OWR-2 -> OWR-3. NMAVE-4 did not appear.
The reader would not allow me to re-comment that line, so I did have to reinstall the main NAM component to revert it. Again, painless.
I know you're busy so if you don't have the time to spend on this I can wait and hopefully it'll make it with the next release.
If you extract the file from the main .dat (right-click on RUL0, go to Save Decoded File...), open the file in Notepad or something similar, you can then modify it without losing anything.
That's odd that it disabled the other stuff and still didn't enable the NMAVE-4 piece . . .
As far as why it didn't let you add stuff back in, that's because the Reader's RUL viewer actually has a character limit on it. We actually exceeded that character limit in 2006, around the time of NAM Version 20. It'll let you remove characters, but not add them, unless you export it externally as SA described. I'd probably get a fresh install of the Controller before doing it, just in case.
Quote from: Original on January 26, 2012, 12:17:19 AM
This may or may not be in NWM's locker, but is it possible that the OWR-2 have smooth curves? The OWR-2 has been a very useful asset for increasing traffic flow in crowded cities. I've seen the MAVE-4 & -6 have exceptional curves, and other road-ways such as the roads themselves have beautiful curves... So I wonder... Why hasn't there been any smooth curves created for OWR-2? If they are in production, will they be out in the next release?
Quote from: metarvo on January 26, 2012, 06:08:06 AM
The good news is that Alex is in fact working on OWR-2 smooth curves once again. More info can be found earlier in this thread[linkie] (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg410545#msg410545). :)
Yes, the OWR-2 curves are being resurrected. The main problem with them had been working out the OneWayDir flags on the stubs. I haven't worked on them for a few days as Project 0E's been taking up my SC4 time lately, but I'm committed to finally finishing them (and the related NWM OWR curves) for the next NAM release.
-Alex
Hi all. I'm currently participating in a multiplayer SC4 project and we're testing out in a sandbox before we go live with the big region. We have agreed on a number of mods and, obviously, NAM and NWM are essential.
So, I was dragging NWM, testing, when I discovered that for some reason, Residential zones will not access TLA-3. All the other NWM roads seem to work fine. It's like there is some glitch that is keeping the game from recognizing TLA-3 as a working road. And, as per many peoples' suggestions, I let the game run for close to two years and the "no car zots" never go away. Additionally, the route query shows no traffic using them, even after two years. Other zones develop on the roads, including civics and the like, but I was told that they will develop without road access so that doesn't really indicate anything...
Funnily enough, I also did a few TuLep intersections on a section of the TLA-3 and those work fine. I don't have draw-paths and can't easily install it because of the multi-player setup (not to mention that no one else can duplicate the problem). We have a ton of mods installed, but it doesn't explain why I'm the only one having the issue...
I hope you guys can give me some help! The multi-player region launches on Saturday and I'd like to have the kinks worked out before then!
Thanks sooooo much.
The Extra Cheats DLL is completely Non-Invasive when it comes to City Tiles (It adds data which isn't saved), you can have it on your machine and your fellow players needn't have it on theirs and they would be none the wiser. Now...
Do you play SimCity 4 in LHT (Cars drive on the left as they do in the UK/Japan/Australia/American Samoa) mode?
If you do, and your fellow players play in RHT (Cars drive on the right as they do in Continental Europe, Asia and America), they most likely haven't installed the LHD plugin necessary to allow the TLA networks to work in LHT.
Quote from: jdenm8 on February 03, 2012, 02:08:00 AM
The Extra Cheats DLL is completely Non-Invasive when it comes to City Tiles (It adds data which isn't saved), you can have it on your machine and your fellow players needn't have it on theirs and they would be none the wiser. Now...
Do you play SimCity 4 in LHT (Cars drive on the left as they do in the UK/Japan/Australia/American Samoa) mode?
If you do, and your fellow players play in RHT (Cars drive on the right as they do in Continental Europe, Asia and America), they most likely haven't installed the LHD plugin necessary to allow the TLA networks to work in LHT.
I will ask about installing the Extra Cheats DLL (I'm assuming that's where draw paths is?). If it doesn't really affect city tiles or game play, it shouldn't be a big deal.
And, no one that I know of is using LHT in-game. If that were the case wouldn't effect more than just me and more than just TLA-3???
Thanks for the help!
I actually did a bit of testing last night in response to your post, rottenart. It does indeed appear there are certain situations that can occur with single-tile networks with crossover paths that R zones simply don't like. They won't actually fully abandon . . . instead, they seem to get stuck in a loop. The no car zots show up, and they continuously act like they're going to abandon, get re-occupied and fluctuate in population, with no traffic coming out from them. The same issue occurs when the center tile of the TLA-7 is used as a fake TLA-3, but full TLA-5s and full TLA-7s work fine.
If you have an intersection along the TLA-3 somewhere in the vicinity of the R zones, it should solve the problem, but a long, straight stretch will cause the zots. It's a rather odd one I've not heard of before, but R zones have always been among the finickiest of zones.
-Alex
This might even be for a similar reason to what causes them to instantly abandon if plopped. Right?
Whatever it is, R zones have always been the most particular in terms of developing. I'd speculate with reasonable certainty that it's something to do with how the zoning system was accommodated in the executable.
Also, for those of you who have had the infamous Z-fighting issue with an nVidia card on the NWM Wealthified Puzzle Piece Transitions, you may want to check out this thread (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14332.msg412671#msg412671). Wthrwyz appears to have found a solution.
-Alex
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2Fother%2Fnew_city-24_feb.__001328428822.jpg&hash=d2fdfa8aa5f85d8fa69911f1bf8f770c4c46c07f)
Some new additions.
"buliliant"*! &apls &apls
*Brilliant
Nice. Have you got them all done yet. With the triple tilers could yo extend the pylons so they are on the footpath corners?
Actually, the plan was to only do the wider AVEs (AVE-6 is coded, but not Modelled or Pathed and the code for AVE-8 is in place) as that is a very long distance to go without a pylon.
Even with the pylons extended to the corners, it's still 40m or 130ft without a pylon. With the AVEs I can cut that down to 24m or 79ft but I don't have that safe harbour in the TLAs.
@jdenm8: You can make a T21 arch for wider network!
I have a problem.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg832.imageshack.us%2Fimg832%2F9808%2Fbeachsidewayjan21191328.png&hash=1119d81ab62a595401f3dd00a0158946c46db505) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/beachsidewayjan21191328.png/)
It looks like some textures are conflicting. I didn't check the paths, but I'm assuming it's the textures. If someone could get me a patch or lead me to one, then that would really be appreciated.
-lrb
Are you using the draggable transitions? If so, I've had the same problem before, so instead I use the ploppable transitions as a simple alternative. ;)
Quote from: lrb on February 05, 2012, 01:16:55 PM
I have a problem.
It looks like some textures are conflicting. I didn't check the paths, but I'm assuming it's the textures. If someone could get me a patch or lead me to one, then that would really be appreciated.
-lrb
I fairly certain I made a patch for that at some point--when it was initially reported a few months ago--but I'm not sure where it is. I'll have to look.
Edit: It appears that for some reason, when the issue was first reported, I remarked that it would require repackaging the entire mod. However, upon a further look, that doesn't appear to be necessary. I've attached the 2.0.3 patch below, which includes everything from the previous patches (path fixes) merged into the .dat. Just unzip to your Network Widening Mod folder.
-Alex
Thank you Alex! &apls
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2Fother%2Ftla-3_pylons.jpg&hash=57acebd446b0afdf6e51c6c1844a9c610207ed54)
[/jk]
That is actually a mock-up, a cosmetic override of the AVE-6 intersection. Here you can see the massive distance issues that this network presents.
Hmm, isn't it "You must construct additional pylons!" ?
Quote from: riiga on February 06, 2012, 05:26:53 AM
Hmm, isn't it "You must construct additional pylons!" ?
I believe Aldaris would agree with you. Though, a nice cantilever truss would probably do the job even better.
I know, I know, but when I noticed the error (after saving and uploading the image) I couldn't be bothered re-cropping the original image. I have to err... use Paint now.
Quote from: jdenm8 on February 06, 2012, 03:10:35 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2Fother%2Ftla-3_pylons.jpg&hash=57acebd446b0afdf6e51c6c1844a9c610207ed54)
[/jk]
That is actually a mock-up, a cosmetic override of the AVE-6 intersection. Here you can see the massive distance issues that this network presents.
The Crumbling of America comes to SimCity 4 :)
Quote from: mike3775 on February 06, 2012, 06:11:48 AM
Quote from: jdenm8 on February 06, 2012, 03:10:35 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2Fother%2Ftla-3_pylons.jpg&hash=57acebd446b0afdf6e51c6c1844a9c610207ed54)
[/jk]
That is actually a mock-up, a cosmetic override of the AVE-6 intersection. Here you can see the massive distance issues that this network presents.
The Crumbling of America comes to SimCity 4 :)
I found this inordinately funny...
Instead of additional pylons, why not a arch or other realistic feature to provide for the needed support.
This doesn't look any better ::)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg845.imageshack.us%2Fimg845%2F7679%2Fwilshirejun191481328562.jpg&hash=cbf6f6b37dc09512019455cfd0b663317f90dc9d)
Quote from: io_bg on February 06, 2012, 01:08:10 PM
This doesn't look any better ::)
Of course, I'm not sure that there's not really much we can do there. It's a draggable connection and we can't anticipate what the user will be doing on the other side.
-Alex
Is possible to make a T-21 pylon on RHW 6-8-10 that appears when other elevated network crosses? ()what()
Perhaps make multiple crossings for wider NWM networks in a similar way to some of the TuLEP and FLUP pieces, i.e. when you rotate the piece it gives you the option of another piece. That way you could choose from cantilever truss, plate girder, undertruss, arch etc. without making the tab ring too long. ;)
I know someone would have to make all the models for the pieces, but if they did, you could set them out like this. ;)
Quote from: vinlabsc3k on February 06, 2012, 02:32:22 PM
Is possible to make a T-21 pylon on RHW 6-8-10 that appears when other elevated network crosses? ()what()
The problem is where to place that pylon. Some of those RHW networks (and NWM networks, too) cover pretty much a whole tile, and it's difficult to place them in such a place that they wouldn't end up landing right on top of the network, which isn't at all a desirable result. It's kind of a tricky situation.
-Alex
Quote from: jdenm8 on February 06, 2012, 03:10:35 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2Fother%2Ftla-3_pylons.jpg&hash=57acebd446b0afdf6e51c6c1844a9c610207ed54)
Now that was great.
If anyone's up for a game of Starcraft II, feel free to let me know.
Also all these SCs are getting confusing
SCII - Starcraft II
SC4 - Simcity 4
SCIV - Soul Calibur IV
Am I missing anything?
EDIT: Also, it's now on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/pe7eb/when_sc4_meets_scii/
I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. Some nice progress here, and that patch will come in handy!
Quote from: jdenm8 on January 24, 2012, 07:08:14 PM
Bam.
Resized to width 800. Click image to view full size (1366x768).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2Fother%2Fnew_city-28_mar.__001327460752.jpg&hash=af555516e4f9e2ff3dd2a80c737930cbc4a6e367)
This is awsome, got to be compatible with this here:
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2913.420
Can it be?
it can be, but buddybud has to make the T21 for them first
These larger networks should be bridged with some realy wide bridges, maybe something with a truss construction, or maybe at least a low concrete arch. The truss constructions could also be used for ELR-over-avenue and other wide networks. It would sure seem realistic, even though in the case of the avenues, the medians are wide enough to have the rail supported by central coloumns.
What'd really be easier to accomplish would be to simply stagger the support columns so they land in an unobtrusive spot on the TLA . . . similar to how the Heavy Rail-over-Avenue setup that ArkenbergJoe designed.
I think expecting arches, let alone a wide variety of bridge-like setups, is overly optimistic at this point.
-Alex
Most of these suggestions seem to hinge on the assumption that I can do one of two things.
A. Create any kind of usable model in the BAT.
B. Create T21 Exemplars.
I can do neither. The reason why AVE-6 is getting a support column is because it's largely copy-paste then modify a few values in Reader.
There is a truss I like the look of, but I would have to ask the creator for permission to use it, then separate it from the S3D models it's in and modify it to fit the comparably narrow Maxis ElRail structure (not his wider Cosmetic Mod's one).
Most trusses out there aren't three tiles, they're one tile, one and a half tiles or two tiles generally. This one is the only three-tile one I know of. This would also require significantly more effort than I've put into the other pieces, and I don't even use TLAs in my cities.
Quote from: jdenm8 on February 07, 2012, 05:19:13 PM
There is a truss I like the look of, but I would have to ask the creator for permission to use it, then separate it from the S3D models it's in and modify it to fit the comparably narrow Maxis ElRail structure (not his wider Cosmetic Mod's one).
Most trusses out there aren't three tiles, they're one tile, one and a half tiles or two tiles generally. This one is the only three-tile one I know of. This would also require significantly more effort than I've put into the other pieces, and I don't even use TLAs in my cities.
Thanks for helping clarify that whole side of things, JD. To further expound on this notion, it would entail a lot of time and effort--using skills not many of us on the NAM Team have--to make a minor cosmetic improvement. We also are not going to make an external prop pack become a dependency of the NAM.
To the "Pylon Police" out there, please note that this is the
Network Addon Mod . . . while we do make an effort to make our network content as aesthetically appealing as we can with our time, so many folks out there have very different ideas as to how things should be based on their vastly different experiences, and we can't satisfy everyone. As a result, we tend to keep things very basic.
If someone wants to come in and make a third-party T21 mod to put an arch on something, or do something snazzy with the pylons, be our guest. But first, we have tens of thousands of lines of RUL code to write, S3Ds to assemble, and path files to slog through in order for there to be anything on which to put pylons/arches.
-Alex
Something you can do is making the deck and the supporting pylons somewhat thicker for that particular overpass. This would make the structure look more rigid without doing T21s work with the BAT.
After Tarkus' post and a few difficulties with widening the Pylon structure on the AVE-6 piece to fit the broader Road passage point, I've decided to omit the pylon. Since I'm omitting the pylon, I may as well do a TLA-7 version as well.
@ Tarkus: You need to put a link to NWM 2.0.3 on the front page ;)
I like what's happening with the Elevated Rail though!
Quote from: DAB_City on February 08, 2012, 12:42:49 PM
@ Tarkus: You need to put a link to NWM 2.0.3 on the front page ;)
One step ahead of you--I attached it to the sticky post the day the patch was released, complete with installation instructions. :) Just click the "Patches/Fixes" link at the top of the sticky post and it'll take you down to it.
-Alex
Oh yeah... but under the 'Downloads - Patches/Fixes section', it's still labelled as 2.0.2 &Thk/(
Quote from: DAB_City on February 08, 2012, 01:23:03 PM
Oh yeah... but under the 'Downloads - Patches/Fixes section', it's still labelled as 2.0.2 &Thk/(
Thanks for catching that! It's now fixed. A lot of info to sort through there, so it's useful having a second pair of eyes on it. :thumbsup:
-Alex
It looks like there is a missing path in one of the possible intersections:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg269.imageshack.us%2Fimg269%2F4059%2Fmissingpath.jpg&hash=583543f56e263e2f58e6b2a97df2bf265eab47ab)
I apologize if this has already been noted or is currently being worked on. This is a MAVE-6/NMAVE-4 'T' intersection. So far I have not noticed any problems with any other intersections that I have used involving the NWM.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fjdenm8%2Fother%2Ftla-3_pylons.jpg&hash=57acebd446b0afdf6e51c6c1844a9c610207ed54)
For me the solution to this "problem" may be using a piece of the puzzle size 1x3 which has a 3SD file and this area is something like Bridge to comply with the arch wires or shrouds. I guess Alex will say that NAM is concerned with networks and these are just minor details. These are just technical amendments to aesthetics, but would require a large amount of work.
Quote from: shinkansen1 on February 09, 2012, 12:56:27 AM
I apologize if this has already been noted or is currently being worked on. This is a MAVE-6/NMAVE-4 'T' intersection. So far I have not noticed any problems with any other intersections that I have used involving the NWM.
Nope, it hasn't been noted--thanks for spotting it! I've updated the patch to Version 2.0.4. It's attached below and on the sticky thread. As always, it combines all previous NWM 2.0 fixes, and just drop it into your Network Addon Mod\Network Widening Mod folder.
-Alex
Remember to change the descriptions (again!) - sorry to keep being a pain, it's good to be helpful though ;)
Quote from: DAB_City on February 10, 2012, 10:28:22 AM
Remember to change the descriptions (again!) - sorry to keep being a pain, it's good to be helpful though ;)
Yeah, there's so many spots where it's referenced in the sticky post that it's a little hard to keep track of at times. I've been meaning to re-do it and the RHW one for some time now.
-Alex
I see what you mean, although I'm sure the actual NAM-related work has a slight priority ::)
Quote from: Tarkus on January 19, 2012, 02:16:42 PMWHAT WILL MOST LIKELY BE INCLUDED [...]
Hey Tarkus,
I was wondering if you could make some transitions from the NMAVE-4 (NRD-4) to the other one-tile road types (RHW-2, AVE-2, ARD-3, TLA-3).
Currently, I find very difficult to use this network as it's only compatible with the normal two-lane road.
Apart from that, are there any plans on making a 8-/10-lane Maxis highway? I'm asking since I found images of a 4-/5-lane Maxis highway in the NetworkAddonMod4.dat file that could be used for this purpose.
For some reason I thought there were more NRD-4 transitions planned for the next release--I think someone else went ahead and created most of the textures you're asking for. I wouldn't expect the RHW-2 transition though, you might as well just transition to road and then RHW-2.
No wider MHW stuff is planned. I'm assuming what you found in the dat is part of the 45 degree "Y" MHW interchange.
Quote from: noahclem on March 21, 2012, 11:40:07 AM
For some reason I thought there were more NRD-4 transitions planned for the next release--I think someone else went ahead and created most of the textures you're asking for. I wouldn't expect the RHW-2 transition though, you might as well just transition to road and then RHW-2.
Yeah, I just found them, thanks. They look really impressive, but I'm rather asking for single-tile transitions.
QuoteNo wider MHW stuff is planned. I'm assuming what you found in the dat is part of the 45 degree "Y" MHW interchange.
No, that's not it. You can check by yourself using Reader; the IDs are ea467dab for the 4-lane roadway and ea567dab for the 5-lane roadway, and neither appers in the MHW Y-stack.
Quote from: Wilfried on March 21, 2012, 12:12:23 PM
Quote from: noahclem on March 21, 2012, 11:40:07 AM
For some reason I thought there were more NRD-4 transitions planned for the next release--I think someone else went ahead and created most of the textures you're asking for. I wouldn't expect the RHW-2 transition though, you might as well just transition to road and then RHW-2.
Yeah, I just found them, thanks. They look really impressive, but I'm rather asking for single-tile transitions.
QuoteNo wider MHW stuff is planned. I'm assuming what you found in the dat is part of the 45 degree "Y" MHW interchange.
No, that's not it. You can check by yourself using Reader; the IDs are ea467dab for the 4-lane roadway and ea567dab for the 5-lane roadway, and neither appers in the MHW Y-stack.
Single-tile transitions have also been discussed here, and might be implemented as a "drag-trans" (not puzzle piece-based) option, alongside the textures you saw here. The 4- & 5-lane MHW is not from the plain "y" intersection, it's from a splitter intersection where there is no access between two of the highways in the interchange. Trust me, there are no plans for MHW-8s or -10s.
I can confirm there will be no wider MHWs. There never have been plans for wider MHWs, and those textures are for other purposes. There wouldn't be much utility to wider MHWs, especially they'd be extraordinarily difficult to make and we have the RHW system already. Plus we'd have folks pounding down your door to make extraordinarily difficult pre-fab interchanges for them (e.g. "can you guys make a stack for MHW-10-over-MHW-6"), which is the last thing we want.
-Alex
Haha, I see.
Brief question for you fine folks:
Is the diagonal OWR-3 to OWR-2 transition bidirectional? I am having trouble getting the arrows to point toward the northeast.
Quote from: itsacoaster on April 07, 2012, 11:02:03 AM
Is the diagonal OWR-3 to OWR-2 transition bidirectional?
They are, as with all OWR-related transitions.
Hello,
I've noticed that all paths are missing at the Diagonal ARD-3 and Orthogonal Street T Intersection end and all paths are clear from most of the intersection area (except the path of the one-lane side of the ARD-3, which has a gap) therefore causing UDI's to end when the vehicle approaches the intersection.
EDIT:Picture is here!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2F78825247%40N07%2F%3Fsavedsettings%3D7056745307%23photo7056745307&hash=0a9674442c08a989421196768d76b1a3b419694b)
Can somebody help me with this??? &hlp
Quote from: SimCity V6 on April 08, 2012, 06:15:37 AM
Hello,
I've noticed that all paths are missing at the Diagonal ARD-3 and Orthogonal Street T Intersection end and all paths are clear from most of the intersection area (except the path of the one-lane side of the ARD-3, which has a gap) therefore causing UDI's to end when the vehicle approaches the intersection.
(Image coming soon)
Can somebody help me with this??? &hlp
This is also the case for Diagonal OWR-3.
Because, if you had read the readme you'd know, Diagonal Intersections in the NWM are partially present and not supported as a whole because of that.
Also, the privacy settings for your image are incorrect. I cannot load it, even when using the URL directly.
QuoteAlso, the privacy settings for your image are incorrect. I cannot load it, even when using the URL directly.
You mean SimCity V6's picture of the unpathed diagonal ARD and street?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7280%2F7056745307_39f7d53487_m.jpg&hash=d625f8cb6e62aad578d8db69f0bc72bb4431498a)
Hey NWM team—not sure what's going on here; I just now got this.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg59.imageshack.us%2Fimg59%2F1388%2Fnwmnmave4owr1issue.th.jpg&hash=7800c194286f64777c24c863987931ece0206938) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/nwmnmave4owr1issue.jpg/)
Quote from: Moonraker0 on April 13, 2012, 06:14:26 PM
I just now got this.
Probably a quirk in the RUL-2 code. Try placing the starter closer to the crossing as a (much) quick(er) fix.
Right...in fact, it was even easier than that, as all I had to do was click a few tiles down the OWR. Not sure why I didn't try that in the first place. :-[
The fact that it happened at all indicates that there is a RUL2 error. Depending on which tile you click and exactly how SC4 reevaluates the RULs, it will likely break again until the RULs are corrected.
At long last . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FoxxKx.jpg&hash=39a278ca1fa96b9dd7c118b4efb0ecab90d23808)
And before anyone asks, yes, they also now exist for the OWR-1 and the base One-Way Road (OWR-2) network. The OWR-2 also has OWFAR now, too. (Not sure when I'll get around to FANWM networking, though.)
-Alex
Just beautiful :o
Nicely sinuous. Good news about other developments with OWR.
That is sec(c) for all c between fantastic and amazing. you guys are a MACHINE! a glorious glorious machine :D
Quote from: JoeST on April 28, 2012, 10:40:58 AM
you guys are a MACHINE!
I wouldn't say a machine; After all, there were a number of hurdles to overcome. The hurdle for OWR curves were getting the end stubs right, the reason why we never had OWR curves for so long.
Fantastic! I am truly geek-ed up :thumbsup:
I can hardly wait!Just counting down the
months, weeks, days, hours, minutes, seconds, nanoseconds
until this comes out. RL sucks.
Alex, EA should hire you for the new release of Sim City that is coming out in January. It would be our loss, but it would be worth it.
Just one question: Have S curves been done?
Working on some Euro Textures for the NWM again. Here's the NMAVE-4 set, completely finished (was not hard to finish, only 78 textures):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fmrtnrln%2FSimCity4-Stuff%2Feuronmave-4_test.jpg&hash=2baa87243c711da2640ea68132f9646e7a1f382e)
The whole set is attached to this post
Best,
Maarten
Quote from: roadgeek on May 03, 2012, 05:20:07 AM
Just one question: Have S curves been done?
S-curves for some of the wider networks have been done already.
Unfortunately, much of the NWM development has been put on hold due to RHW development.
Maarten awesome!
I have long dreamed of Euro-textures of NWM and now it becomes fact. Hopefully there is an option to re-texture mod only NWM without prejudice standard Maxi's (Road, OWR and street). Also a small note I can say that here in Bulgaria NMAVE-4 has a double white continuous line, not a single as the picture. However you are always doing great things, so I have no word here.
Yes, that's the detail, that also caught my eye. I saw some photos from other European coutries*, everywhere roads like NMAVE-4 had double solid line. What is more crossing this line should be always forbidden.
*I say "other countries", because in Poland opposite directions are divided by double solid always. So, if in reality it looks other than I think, I agree that I could be wrong.
But of course great work! Looks horribly nice :thumbsup:
Having some trouble widing my avenues. The widening transitions can't be placed over an existing avenue and if I bulldoze a section and then place the transition it defaults back to the regular avenue when I try and connect the widened end to the existing avenue. This is on a fresh install of the game (less then a week ago) with fresh DLs of NWM and NAM (less then a week ago). Anyone have any idea how to fix this issue? The roads and the OWRs work fine, it's just the aves that are being difficult.
Having a picture (and identifying which networks than just saying "AVEs") really helps.
Regular in game avenues. But it's alright, because I figured it out a solution :D I just plopped down the starter pieces and used that to get it to form.
Are you dragging Maxis avenue or road from the starters? You should be dragging road.
For those of you who have used OWR-4 and noticed performance degradation, this patch (attached to this post) will fix that at the expense of causing OWR-5 style "upstream swimming," although it's purely visual and does not affect simulation.
This patch is purely optional and non-critical and only for people who have performance issues using OWR-4.
Hello I have a problem on dragging an AVE-6 over a Maxis Highway. The cars disappear when they pass either the Highway over the AVE-6 or the AVE-6 under the highway. Can somebody help?
I meant TLA-7!
The path file on the center tile of the TLA-7 appears to be corrupted. Try this out (place in your NWM folder).
-Alex
LHD users are not affected, I can't reproduce it.
May I ask what happens to date with NWM and whether it is behind your attention because of the notorious ultra stability. If not mistaken I knew it would hardly occur this year AVE-8/TLA-9 this true?
Will there be new pieces for Tuleps - previously mentioned hyper intersection, which will be able to connect from all directions as networks OWR-4/5 and thus to build huge avenues. Overall, everything in NWM is in a fog and confusion - at least for me. Have shown elevated networks AVE-6, if not Ill lie there such a trend and what are the networks that are selected for L-2?
Do not forget to mention that Alex (Tarkus) is very close to his 7000 comments
Right now, the NWM is in "standby mode". There's a few small additions finished (OWR-1 and OWR-3 wide radius curves, the multi-tile S-Curves), and a few I'll be sneaking in at the end (new transitions based on the textures supplied by
michi_cc and
Dexter). The crosslinking with the RHW will be vastly improved as part of the P57 project, and there might even be some SAM crosslinking. But beyond that, NWM and TuLEPs aren't really in active development right now.
That said, as the RHW will be in much better shape with this next NAM release, I am planning to shift my attention primarily toward NWM and TuLEPs additions for NAM Version 32, and I have a lot planned, and even some preliminary groundwork in place for it.
I've already applied the OxD/DxD same-network fixes I did for the RHW to the Road and One-Way Road networks, which means that certain diagonal NWM intersections will be easier to make now. Additionally, as of last night, I managed to develop a Photoshop technique to "procedurally" generate diagonal intersection textures from their orthogonal counterparts, using a little trigonometry.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDftaL.png&hash=8110e622099cc0e2f3a1b741ce3a443e45e7f486)
I can crank the textures out for such intersections now in just a few minutes. Which is good, because with 13 NWM networks, there's an absurd number of intersection possibilities (over one thousand). :D
Elevated networking will probably be the highest priority for the next set of updates to the NWM system, and the following networks are planned to get both L1 and L2 versions:
- AVE-2
- AVE-6
- AVE-8
- ARD-3
- NRD-4
- RD-4
- RD-6
- OWR-3
- OWR-4
- OWR-5
The TLAs and the OWR-1 will not be getting elevated versions. The reason for no elevated TLAs is obvious, and the OWR-1 is kind of a "street-ish" network. The AVE-8/TLA-9 is in a holding pattern at present, as I'm still debating whether or not to change its underlying network setup. It has been a fully Road-based setup like the AVE-6/TLA-7, but I'm also considering a Road/OWR "hybrid" approach.
Beyond that, fractional angles are also on the docket . . . and the "procedural" technique I used to generate the RD-6/Road OxD intersection above also works for fractional angle intersections (though again, there's an absolutely absurd number of possible configurations).
The TuLEP plans are a bit more hazy at the moment. I'm closer to having a nomenclature to work with the "advanced" setups, but folks are going to have to keep in mind that it's going to be a system for the "hardcore" users who want (and can handle) minute control over their road systems. It's going to require a lot (and I really mean
a lot) of pressing TAB to navigate it. When I'm ready to discuss TuLEP developments further, after the next NAM, I'll be bringing the TuLEPs thread back into active duty.
-Alex
Thanks for answer Alex you are very kind
THX &apls for all the dedication on these projects Tarkus... as this game -SC4, would have languished and the possibility of SC5 never have happened, without the advances made via the NAM-Team... :thumbsup:
The OWR idea sounds good, that way you could extend the median out and simply drag OWR to make the transition faster, assuming they're using the same middle piece...
And I don't remember you saying anything about why TLAs aren't getting elevated versions...
Quote from: Wiimeiser on June 20, 2012, 02:52:43 PM
The OWR idea sounds good, that way you could extend the median out and simply drag OWR to make the transition faster, assuming they're using the same middle piece...
And I don't remember you saying anything about why TLAs aren't getting elevated versions...
If you keep the TLA turn paths on an elevated TLA, in real-life at least, you'd fall off the bridge. :P In SC4, that would equate to a 7.5 or 15m jump from the air to the ground if there's an adjacent lot (not realistic) and absolute redundancy if it's an isolated viaduct or bridge (not practical).
In other words, for ENWM, AVEs and TLAs are identical.
Secondly, because of how modular the TLA-7, AVE-6, AVE-8, and TLA-9 are (it's technically the AVE-6 median, the TLA-7 median, AVE-6 outer, and AVE-8 outer that compose all six possible triple-tile networks), the AVE-8 outer part (which, for the record, has TLA paths that "break" when there's an AVE-6 median) is the only thing that needs to be made from OWR. An OWR-based AVE-8 outer would have a 50% capacity boost over the AVE-6 outer, granting the overall network (both TLA-9 and AVE-8) a 67% capacity boost over the AVE-6 and TLA-7.
There are a few inherent problems though, but minor and aesthetic if the OWR-based AVE-8 outer was decided:
- OWR arrows, OWR arrows everywhere.
- OWRs can't make NCs.
- Pathing...
But then,...
- That's two networks, and there's no hotkey for OWR.
- Counterintuitive to use two networks and not just one. Inherently would take longer to build, since you'd need to switch between two networks...
Let me re-list that...
Advantages:
- Higher capacity, up to 2/3 more than AVE-6.
Disadvantages:
- OWR Arrows everywhere.
- Pathing.
- Counterintuitive to use two networks instead of one.
- There's no OWR hotkey.
- OWRs can't make NCs.
Are there any proposals of an AVE-10 and TLA-11?
Quote from: AngryBirdsFan436 on June 22, 2012, 08:50:46 PM
Are there any proposals of an AVE-10 and TLA-11?
The cutoff's at TLA-9 and AVE-8.
We're not really taking requests for new networks right now. We have enough networks on our plates that need their feature sets fleshed out and crosslinks put in place.
Besides, if you really want an AVE-10, just take two OWR-5s in opposite directions and place them adjacent to one another. Problem solved. Those sorts of setups will even have their own TuLEPs in a future NAM release (not NAM 31).
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on June 23, 2012, 12:25:38 AM
Besides, if you really want an AVE-10, just take two OWR-5s in opposite directions and place them adjacent to one another. Problem solved. Those sorts of setups will even have their own TuLEPs in a future NAM release (not NAM 31).
-Alex
It's a little sad. Why not make this piece TuLEPs OWR-4/5 at this release. I guess it will not be especially difficult for you, and by my calculations, these pieces will have a size 4x4.
Quote from: ivo_su on June 23, 2012, 01:20:46 AM
Why not make this piece TuLEPs OWR-4/5 at this release.
Because we got enough plans, and that would just delay the release of NAM 31.
The reason why the NWM is under hiatus is because of the Project 057?
Quote from: AngryBirdsFan436 on June 23, 2012, 03:04:34 AM
The reason why the NWM is under hiatus is because of the Project 057?
Mainly so.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on June 23, 2012, 01:58:50 AM
Quote from: ivo_su on June 23, 2012, 01:20:46 AM
Why not make this piece TuLEPs OWR-4/5 at this release.
Because we got enough plans, and that would just delay the release of NAM 31.
We could, in theory, keep developing until everything everyone ever wanted ended up in the NAM. But that's a
lot of stuff, and would mean NAM 31 wouldn't come out for a few
years, which in the end, would just aggravate everyone (not to mention we'd be inundated with the ever-annoying "is NAM abandoned?" posts). So we're going to get to a suitable stopping point, release a new version so you guys can play with it, and continue development on the next.
-Alex
So, cars dont need to go over the sidewalks here to growable parkingplace - shops.
Is it possible to make some nwm - crossroads without traffic lights for situation like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F4eN0W.jpg%3F1&hash=6ae337e80537059f7c59deaaeec6516ff2ea4862) (http://imgur.com/4eN0W)
Those are TuLEPs intersections there, though the intersections actually share textures with NWM stuff. It's theoretically possible--just have to duplicate the instance and take out the T21s.
-Alex
QuoteThose are TuLEPs intersections there, though the intersections actually share textures with NWM stuff.
The textures may be identical, but I don't believe the models have identical texture IDs.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on June 24, 2012, 07:18:50 AM
QuoteThose are TuLEPs intersections there, though the intersections actually share textures with NWM stuff.
The textures may be identical, but I don't believe the models have identical texture IDs.
Yes, that's correct. The NWM ones are in the 0x51 range, while the color-corrected TuLEP versions are in 0x5B.
-Alex
That diagonal intersection is some sweet stuff there, Alex. Of course, the elevated NWM networks will be a welcome addition as well.
Quote from: metarvo on June 25, 2012, 06:03:18 AM
That diagonal intersection is some sweet stuff there, Alex. Of course, the elevated NWM networks will be a welcome addition as well.
Mind you, it won't be in NAM 31, but will likely be in the NAM after it.
Are there any transitions between NMAVE-4 and any two tile avenue?
Quote from: BlueB52 on June 28, 2012, 01:58:27 PM
Are there any transitions between NMAVE-4 and any two tile avenue?
Someone was kind enough to make the textures for it, but you still need to RUL-2 it in.
In other words, the current public build does not.
Quote
We could, in theory, keep developing until everything everyone ever wanted ended up in the NAM. But that's a lot of stuff, and would mean NAM 31 wouldn't come out for a few years, which in the end, would just aggravate everyone (not to mention we'd be inundated with the ever-annoying "is NAM abandoned?" posts). So we're going to get to a suitable stopping point, release a new version so you guys can play with it, and continue development on the next.
-Alex
I still think that to date, you are far enough from the phase of freezing. Right? This should mean that it is still not too late to add new things that were not planned at this time.
Quote from: ivo_su on June 29, 2012, 02:08:18 PM
I still think that to date, you are far enough from the phase of freezing. Right?
We haven't declared a feature freeze just yet. Besides, what good is RHW without a few essential toys?
Can you tell what these toys or that is kept secret for now?
Quote from: ivo_su on June 29, 2012, 02:50:33 PM
Can you tell what these toys or that is kept secret for now?
I hope they not say and leave it as a surprise when the next version comes out.
No, we are not at feature Freeze, but we also haven't planned them for this build. This build is focussed on the RHW and making massive improvements to it.
The build after the next one is going to be focussed on the NWM and your turn lanes may be included then.
I'll second JD's response and expound upon it. Typically, before "freezes" happen, we actually try to whittle down the feature list. Sometimes new stuff will sneak in, but that's something we've become quite careful to avoid, as it creates a mess. Usually, before a "freeze", we're trying to fine tune things to what is reasonable, with respect to our workload, and when we feel it's getting to be time for a release.
The NWM diagonal intersection functionality was taken off the feature list last release cycle just before the freeze. At this point, given how development has been headed, we already know there's not going to be much new NWM/TuLEPs stuff going on this release. But for NAM Version 32, it's happening, and I'm looking forward to getting back to it.
-Alex
I don't know if it's on the list or not, but I remember that the diagonal OWR-5 was incompatible with the NAM's OWR arrow reduction plugin. It would always revert back to twin OWR-2s on the diagonal sections, forcing me to disable the OWR arrow reduction plugin even though I had grown to like it. Is a fix for this in the works?
Just out of curiosity...has anyone "De-Grassed" the NWM? I know the MAVE has been. Just wondering before I continue going through the MANY textures in that .dat! :P
Jayson
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 04, 2011, 10:22:30 AM
There's currently no OWR Arrow Reduction for any of the NWM's OWRs.
Is this still the case?
Quote from: sithlrd98 on July 06, 2012, 07:53:28 PM
Just out of curiosity...has anyone "De-Grassed" the NWM? I know the MAVE has been. Just wondering before I continue going through the MANY textures in that .dat! :P
Jayson
There might be someone from Asia that's done something like that, there's been at least some T21 mods for NWM coming from there--though I'm definitely not sure and I don't have it. RD-4 would be especially nice.
Quote from: Diamond on July 16, 2012, 05:25:01 AM
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 04, 2011, 10:22:30 AM
There's currently no OWR Arrow Reduction for any of the NWM's OWRs.
Is this still the case?
Yeah, that's still the case. It should be a pretty easy project though, just replacing all the orthogonal textures with arrowless versions. I've been wanting to give it a try but won't have time any time soon.
Quote from: sithlrd98 on July 06, 2012, 07:53:28 PM
Just out of curiosity...has anyone "De-Grassed" the NWM?
Like a zero-wealthification mod? RD-4 and RD-6 were the only two networks that received such a treatment. I'll give you a hint: Other than the two RD networks, AVE-2, OWR-1,
OWR-3 (to an extent; might be wrong though), TLA-5, the AVE-6 median, and the AVE-6 outer use wealthification. TLA-3, ARD-3, and NRD-4 are too narrow to receive wealthification, and most OWRs don't have wealthification to begin with.
Quote from: noahclem on July 16, 2012, 06:26:11 AM
Yeah, that's still the case. It should be a pretty easy project though, just replacing all the orthogonal textures with arrowless versions. I've been wanting to give it a try but won't have time any time soon.
That actually ain't the case. The OWR textures and the OWR arrows are separate from each other. The OWR ARP converts the OWR-2 network from being a texture-based network to being a model-based network which covers up all the arrows.
When dealing with model-based networks, the two main things you have to deal with are having to darken the textures so that they won't look too bright (S3Ds always make textures brighter, so darkening has to be done to counteract it), and having to convert the paths to a different group ID (path files for S3D-based network tiles use a different group ID than non-S3D-based network tiles).
Otherwise, you'll end up with network tiles that are too bright, are too laggy to draw out, and don't carry traffic at all. The alternative is to remove the arrow itself, but then you wouldn't be able to tell the direction unless you try to redraw the OWR.
Did you know that model-based networks will highlight blue if you hover your cursor over it, but non-model-based network will highlight gold? Such is the case with the TLA-3, AVE-2, ARD-3, NRD-4, OWR-3, RHW-6S, and later on, the RHW-4.
EDIT: A closer look at the OWR ARP shows that it converts the OWR-2 tiles into an S3D by using a modified OWR INRUL. Additionally, I'm not finding modified path files, and I'm finding a lot of T21s;
Is the OWR ARP a T21?!! (Weird...)
This might make is so that the arrows can still be detected, even when there's no zoning adjacent, because an S3D network, when unzoned, won't have any kind of wealthification, not even the zero-wealth (0x######0#) texture.Also worth noting that the diag OWR-3 already has an inherent ARP effect due to it being an S3D network. The OWR arrows appear under the same conditions wealthification appears; If it's on an S3D network, they won't appear until there's zoning, and even still, they won't be visible until you cursor over the network itself.
In short, you just need to convert the OWR network tiles into S3Ds to get the OWR ARP effect.
You should be able to hide all arrows by making the arrow texture transparent... but that makes determining orientation impossible without drawpaths or test-dragging OWR.
Don't ask why but I feel inclined to recommended changing the name of TLA to TLR or TLN. It's to make each classification of network (Road, One-way Road, Avenue, Turn-Lane Network) completely unique.
Original name of TLA-3 was actually TLR-3 because it was based off the RD-2 network and it also had two lanes, and TLA-5's name came about because it had the same number of lanes as AVE-4 and its structure was based off of it. TLA makes it sound like MAVE all over again..
Thoughts?
TLN sounds good But let's see what the others think.
TLR spells out what the base network is, too, which, in theory, should deter folks from trying to drag default Avenues out from the starters. If you're going to go that far, then you might as well consider killing off the AVE-2/6/8 designation as well, since all of those networks are Road-based.
-Alex
Of course then we get into the Median vs. Medianless confusion again. Despite the base network thing, I think Road makes perfect sense for the medianless networks: RD-4, RD-6 and Avenue for the median networks AVE-2, AVE-6, AVE-8.
TLA vs. TLR, eh I could go either way. Both have their merits. My brain will probably always call it a TLA whatever happens, heck I still read RHW as Rural Highway most of the time even though it's getting to be more and more Real with each passing day.
Since I usally dislike change, I say we keep the names TLA/MAVE. People still know what we mean. Also, when are we changing standard road to MAVE-2? :P
Quote from: riiga on July 24, 2012, 01:28:56 AM
Since I usally dislike change, I say we keep the names TLA/MAVE. People still know what we mean. Also, when are we changing standard road to MAVE-2? :P
Except when people confuse MAVE-6 with AVE-6. I've seen it happen, and honestly, I'm beginning to regret my idea of namechanging TLA to TLR... I thought it'd be better to further separate the AVE networks from non-AVE networks, and, well, the current naming (AVE, TLA, MAVE) makes everything sound like it revolves around the AVE network, when AVE has nothing to do with anything.
TLA is more of a subset of RD, whereas AVE is in its own category altogether (I'd call it DRD, Divided Road, but that'd take everything too far)...
Quote from: riiga on July 24, 2012, 01:28:56 AM
Since I usally dislike change, I say we keep the names TLA/MAVE. People still know what we mean. Also, when are we changing standard road to MAVE-2? :P
I thought the "MAVE" designation had been replaced with "RD", meaning Maxis roads could be called RD-2. I'd suggest sticking with the "TLA" designation for the turning lane networks but realistically I don't think anyone will be confused as long as the name starts with "TL". If it was going to change I guess simply "TL" would be my vote.
Actually, I like the change from MAVE to RD very much. It makes sense for the medianless networks to have a separate designation from the median ones. I guess the TLA networks could be switched to TLR sensibly since they don't have medians and are Road-based. I'm not as thrilled about switching the NWM AVE networks because of their resemblance to the AVE-4, but I do realize Road is the base network, and DRD seems like a logical alternative to AVE in that case. If such a change were made, AVE-4 would go back to being the only network with the AVE designation, since I gather that the AVE is too unwieldy to use as a base network for anything.
On another note, I notice a little graphical glitch with the OWR-4 diagonals. Small orange dots are appearing in the ROW in Zooms 5 and 6.
Quote from: Tarkus on June 23, 2012, 12:25:38 AM
Besides, if you really want an AVE-10, just take two OWR-5s in opposite directions and place them adjacent to one another.
The problem is that you can't neighbor connect OWRs. :'(
Out of curiosity... can anyone tell me how it works that the single tile NWM networks (for instance) as the four-lane road
(or whatever it is called. I always forget about the hundreds of abbrevations concerning SC4, see the discussion above.) actually have a higher capacity than the two-lane road? I always thought the capacity was a network specific property such as road, OWR, avenue etc and was really surprised when I replaced an over-congested road with four-lane single-tile road and congestion was low again, although the same amount of cars passed. It is like a secret to me. The additional paths are certainly not responsible for that, are they?
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on July 16, 2012, 12:54:07 PM
EDIT: A closer look at the OWR ARP shows that it converts the OWR-2 tiles into an S3D by using a modified OWR INRUL. Additionally, I'm not finding modified path files, and I'm finding a lot of T21s; Is the OWR ARP a T21?!! (Weird...) This might make is so that the arrows can still be detected, even when there's no zoning adjacent, because an S3D network, when unzoned, won't have any kind of wealthification, not even the zero-wealth (0x######0#) texture.
Few may know the OWR ARP actually is a creation of mine. :P The RUL file is included for compatibility reasons only. It changes the network tiles' IIDs which ensures you do not need to redrag all your previously existing OWRs. Previous existing OWRs still show the normal texture whereas new ones display the S3D model und thus no arrows (in fact the arrows are below the S3D). If I had not changed the IID, existing OWRs would have displayed without textures until redragging them I think. The many T21s are included only to get the OWR props to show up because the IID of the network tiles was changed.
Actually it is the paths that increase the capacity (by 25% usually, though it depends on what traffic simulator you are using). "Dummy paths" that don't really connect to anything make the simulator treat those networks as intersections. They're used on almost all the NWM networks, OWR-1, AVE-2 & RD-4 being the only ones missing them if I recall right. Most RHW networks are the same way.
* Technically the networks with more than one tile going in one direction (ie TLA-7, OWR-4, etc) don't have DIPs, as the dummy paths are called, but the paths connecting the tiles also create the intersection capacity effect.
Any chance of you doing a bit more arrow-reduction work? ::)
Thanks for your response, Noah. This is very interesting for me as I have never really investigated the traffic simulators. So did I understand you correctly? The dummy paths let the game think it is an intersection and intersections can be set to higher capacity in the simulator‽ If RD-4 has no dummy paths, I wonder why my 4-lane road was not over-congested anymore. And tiles, which were intersections before, would have the same capacity as before.
Or did you actually mean that the capacity is increased by 25% for each additional path on the tile? So 2 additional paths would make around 50% (or 56.25% to be precise). This would make sense of course, but I would not expect something that realistic from Maxis. $%Grinno$%
Quote from: noahclem on August 09, 2012, 12:14:00 PMAny chance of you doing a bit more arrow-reduction work? ::)
I have just started playing the game again. Perhaps, I will look into it when my region gets big enough to make use of OWR-3,4,5. Though what I can say now is that it is far more complicated than for OWR2. Either one simply converts the textures into S3D with the downside you will have to redrag existing OWR-3,4,5 networks (which is IMO acceptable as these are not among the most used networks I think) or one links the models with new IDs, so redragging is not necessary, but one has to update the RUL files on a big scale (especially overrides). None of these is a perfect solution though.
DIPs on any single-tile override network increase capacity by 25% as though as on an intersection. An intersection is defined as any tile with paths entering or exiting three or four of the sides. There is no way to double-DIP or un-DIP effect (IE, you can't increase capacity any further or make it decrease).
Networks with either crossover paths or TLA-turn paths will also exhibit the DIP effect because of the nature of their pathing that makes them considered intersections. With the TLAs, it results in somewhat undesirable DIP effects, but it's somewhat justified when you get to TLA-7, a network that has both TLA-turn paths and crossover paths. However, you will not get a double-DIP effect out of that, nor will you get a double-DIP effect if you add the Distilled Intersection Paths onto something on the order of, say, RHW-8S.
-----
So the INRUL modification is simply to spare a tedious redrag, which I see as understandable. Though in my mind, it doesn't take a lot to redrag; One click with the corresponding network tool will affect all tiles within a 4 or 5 tiles from the tile from which you clicked at, so just one tile can affect up to eight more.
Converting OWR tiles into S3D-based items does cover up the arrows, but that entails a tedious redraw. Plus, if you mouse-over, you'll still get to see the arrows. There's already an ARP effect with the OWR-3 diagonals; The overhangs are S3D-dictated.
The alternative idea (suggested by Vince) is to replace the arrow textures with blanks, but the drawback to that is that you can't tell the direction of the OWRs afterwards unless you use the Drawpaths cheat or "test-dragging". This may be the simplest of all solution, since you just need to overwrite just two textures.
I should also mention that it's theoretically possible to RUL in a second copy of every OWR network that is S3D-based (or just S3D-based versions of the ortho and diag tiles; That's just two tiles), but, once again, that entails RULing, plus activating and deactivating it will also entail two different copies of the Controller, and you know how big the Controller is... Not exactly desirable, since there normally should ever be two different Controllers: Left and Right. OWR-2 ARP is dictated by a simple INRUL, which is small in comparison to RUL-2, which dictates the placement of all override networks.
So we have three different approaches:
- Blank arrow textures. Pros: Easiest to implement. Cons: Requires DrawPaths to differentiate direction.
- S3D the existing instances. Pros: Also easy. Cons: Requires successive redrawing.
- S3D new instances. Pros: Can theoretically be activated and deactivated without successive redrawing. Cons: Requires an additional copy of the Controller.
I apologize, I should have clarified the difference between one-tile 4-lane roads (NRD-2?). The two-tile network doesn't include DIPs but the one-tile network does.
I don't think having to re-drag OWRs is a real problem for an optional mod.
Glad to hear you're back in the game! Thanks again for all the great stuff you did with diagonal bridges &apls &apls &apls
Thank you both for your explanations. I think i got it now with the DIP effect. Still very interesting.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on August 09, 2012, 02:35:22 PM
So the INRUL modification is simply to spare a tedious redrag, which I see as understandable. Though in my mind, it doesn't take a lot to redrag; One click with the corresponding network tool will affect all tiles within a 4 or 5 tiles from the tile from which you clicked at, so just one tile can affect up to eight more.
Today I would perhaps indeed implement it with simple replacement and need to redrag, in order to avoid conflicts with the NWM. But the NWM did not exist at that time. But then i was just happy with it because existing OWRs did not have to be redragged and possible future conflicts were not that foreseeable. Of course, in that situation one chooses the approach without redrag.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on August 09, 2012, 02:35:22 PM
So we have three different approaches:
- Blank arrow textures. Pros: Easiest to implement. Cons: Requires DrawPaths to differentiate direction.
- S3D the existing instances. Pros: Also easy. Cons: Requires successive redrawing.
- S3D new instances. Pros: Can theoretically be activated and deactivated without successive redrawing. Cons: Requires an additional copy of the Controller.
Well, I would add another approach. If you add S3Ds with new instances, you could duplicate every line of overrides concerning the existing instances and have one copy of the old and one of the new instances at a time. This would eliminate the need for an additional controller. Though I do not prefer this approach. However, this should be done for the two OWR tiles, as someone stated problems with the arrow reduction several posts above which certainly result from this fact.
As for your first approach, IIRC there already is such a mod at Simtropolis since very long before the arrows reduction plugin existed (or at least there once was). But I was not comfortable with using it, so I created my own approach back then. But as you said replacing two textures is no great deal anyway.
BTW, I am happy some of you actually started to like the OWR ARP. I always considerd it to be a plugin rarely used.
Noah, I am glad you like the diagonal bridges. They are a project which has slept on my hard drive for a very long time until I decided to eventually return to SimCity to make them useable. I felt a bit guilty to Lars (Praiodan) who had BATted the first diagonal bridge for me.
Edit: Something to think about is removing the new IIDs of the OWR-2 ARP from the RULs. You could add the S3Ds to the old instances, but keep the other S3Ds with the new instances, too. However, RUL conflicts are completely ruled out, and as most people who install the plugin had it previously installed, they will not even notice the change. So no need to redrag then.
Here's a more specific look at how the DIPs (Distilled Intersection Paths) work, from the ARD-3 orthogonal path (0x51020000):
SC4PATHS
1.2
7
0
0
-- car_1_3
1
1
1
3
0
2
-4.5,8,0
-4.5,-8,0
-- car_3_1_a
1
1
3
1
0
2
0,-8,0
0,8,0
-- car_3_1_b
1
2
3
1
0
2
4.5,-8,0
4.5,8,0
-- sim_1_3
2
1
1
3
0
2
-7.5,8,0
-7.5,-8,0
-- sim_3_1
2
1
3
1
0
2
7.5,-8,0
7.5,8,0
--Invalid Paths
-- car_3_0
1
0
3
0
0
1
-7.9,-8,-20
-- car_1_2
1
0
1
2
0
1
7.9,8,-20
It's those last two that trick the game into applying the Intersection Effect to the network tile. I've since come to avoid single-point paths, so they'll be changed into dual-point dummy paths with the next release.
-Alex
Hello everyone:
I am not sure if I've missed it, but is there a NMAV to Ave 4 transition piece? I have a couple of places where I want to go from a narrow avenue to a traditional avenue, mainly so that I can utilize the NAM overpasses. I can't seem to find it or figure out if there is one.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you all.
That piece doesn't exist unfortunately... I hope it'll be available in the next NAM.
I believe textures for such a piece were created some time ago and last I heard it's on the "likely to be included in the next NAM" category. A possible workaround for now is the tram-on-road to tram-in-avenue piece.
Thank you for the information and help.
I'll confirm that we do indeed have some nice textures for that particular transition. The tentative plans are to sneak those in once we have the RHW Project 57 (P57) effort in hand for NAM 31.
We've already begun initial planning on an effort similar to P57 for the NWM (involving an IID shift and a RUL2 rewrite). That'll be one of our major projects for NAM 32.
-Alex
Will the nwm include FAR pieces?
Fractional Angle NWM networks are indeed planned. They're under consideration for NAM 32.
-Alex
Great tarkus.. I know there is no release date planned yet... but I always look at the project 57 thing in your sig an always wonder... are you guys really doing it? cause it feels like you just released something and the next day you guys already start something new... this team is basically the reason why people keep coming back to simcity 4... keep it up... nice work! &apls
One thing that's bugged me is that the AVE-6/TLA-7 and avenue T-intersection has some textural misalignment.
Here's a pic of one next to a avenue + intersection to show the difference.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fbm8dK.jpg&hash=52aa7803d3510bfb34b05836d66089527d6c8946)
One thing that I'd really like is for the TuLEP functionality to be extended to the ultra-wide NWM networks, i.e. the AVE-6 and TLA-7. An additional turning lane would still be useful there, and it's kind of silly that a TLA-7 intersecting an AVE-4 can have TuLEPs but a TLA-7 intersecting another TLA-7 cannot.
This is re-posted from my latest post in the RHW thread:
QuoteI've always had a special itch for a reversible lane setup. I realize that the pathing and functionality is very difficult to impossible for a reversible road, but I think it would be possible to make the eyecandy, such as the lane markings and the overhead setups, like a retextured OWR or ARD-3. I understand completely if the NAM team doesn't want to waste time on non-functional transit systems, but I just thought I would mention it. Perhaps some modder might like the idea. Seeing as I have no modding skills myself, I'll settle for "photoshopping". Something like this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Lions_Gate.jpg) really adds an urban and "real" feel to a city.
Additional note: I found these two old conversations in the NWM thread about reversible lanes (one from 2008 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg164713#msg164713) and one from 2010 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg362948#msg362948)). The idea I posted 4 years ago seemed to be workable, albeit as a retextured ARD-3. It would certainly be possible to create cosmetic puzzle pieces in that regard like the RHW. As for the ARD-3 switch that I mentioned, that piece could have a cosmetic version that had reversible lane textures. In addition to that usage, a lot of people would find it useful for the regular ARD-3's.
Shadow Assassin and a few others thought it was a nice idea. Since aside form the ARD-3 switch (which is useful to have anyway) no new under-the-hood functionality would be needed, I don't think a cosmetic puzzle piece set would be all that difficult to make for some future release. I leave it up to you modders to decide what to do with the idea.
Reversible lanes sound nice, though they wouldn't be at the top of my personal priority list.
But I was actually posting because I was wondering if AVE-8 and TLA-9 are planned for inclusion in NAM 32. I'd really love to see development restart on those ;)
EDIT: I forgot to ask about OWR splitters. OWR-5 to OWR-3 + OWR-2 would be especially nice. OWR-3 to OWR-2 + OWR-1, OWR-3 to 2xOWR-2, and OWR-5 to 2x OWR-3 could also be useful.
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on August 20, 2012, 06:55:40 AM
One thing that I'd really like is for the TuLEP functionality to be extended to the ultra-wide NWM networks, i.e. the AVE-6 and TLA-7. An additional turning lane would still be useful there, and it's kind of silly that a TLA-7 intersecting an AVE-4 can have TuLEPs but a TLA-7 intersecting another TLA-7 cannot.
That's more of a "We didn't include it because it didn't make the cut" kind of thing, and surprisingly, it happens a lot. TLA-9 and AVE-8 were supposed to be included along with TLA-7 and AVE-8, but it would mean double the work, so it was dropped out. Look at the NWM's DAT file(s), and you'll find textures for that, and even AVE-6/AVE-4 B-TuLEPs.
Also, you're using incorrect terminology. Ultra-wides, in RHW-land (Area 57, anypony?), refer to a network that exceeds the standard limit of draggability, that is, it's either bigger than a two-tile wide S-network or bigger than a 3-tile wide C-network. Take that to NWM, and the only possible Ultra-Wides are probably a 4-tile AVE-10 and maybe a three-tile OWR-8. TLA-7 and AVE-6 are, therefore, standard-wide.
And you left this:
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on August 20, 2012, 06:46:41 AM
This is sort of off-topic and belongs more in the NWM thread, but I've always had a special itch for a reversible lane setup.
Additional note: I found these two old conversations in the NWM thread about reversible lanes (one from 2008 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg164713#msg164713) and one from 2010 (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg362948#msg362948)).
One of those conversations occurred when I was still a NAM Team Associate, with which I replied with:
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on January 23, 2011, 12:33:47 PM
It wouldn't work, since individual paths cannot be reversed at regular intervals. The closest thing to making such a network functional is to have two paths in the middle lane, each in two different directions.
Then again, it was from someone who questioned the usefulness of even the simplest of all NWM functionalities, and even (blatantly) pushed us into making an impractically narrow network.
There was even a third proposal by someone who created a REV-5 by dragging two halves of an OWR-5 in two different directions. (I honestly didn't know what he was doing until he explained it.)
Personally, my reply still stands, but you could either go with bidrectional pathing in the middle or nothing in the middle but with DIPing to compensate (which you technically would need either way).
REV-3 has the same priority as, say, a single-sided TLA (which, for the record, I have actually seen), or an AVE-2 whose barrier is replaced with double double yellow lines (prototypical equivalent was seen as a TuLEP piece). All of which fall under the category of NWM Cosmetic pieces (and those don't even exist!!!), and would need to wait until NAM 32 dev even begins. (I make no guarantees that such pieces would even make it in.)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on August 20, 2012, 07:47:44 AM
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on August 20, 2012, 06:55:40 AM
One thing that I'd really like is for the TuLEP functionality to be extended to the ultra-wide NWM networks, i.e. the AVE-6 and TLA-7. An additional turning lane would still be useful there, and it's kind of silly that a TLA-7 intersecting an AVE-4 can have TuLEPs but a TLA-7 intersecting another TLA-7 cannot.
That's more of a "We didn't include it because it didn't make the cut" kind of thing, and surprisingly, it happens a lot. TLA-9 and AVE-8 were supposed to be included along with TLA-7 and AVE-8, but it would mean double the work, so it was dropped out. Look at the NWM's DAT file(s), and you'll find textures for that, and even AVE-6/AVE-4 B-TuLEPs.
Not making the cut does happen a lot, though from my experience it's more of a case of putting off something to another release than cancelling the feature entirely. If I'm not mistaken TLA-9's and AVE-8's are still slated to appear at some future date.
QuoteAlso, you're using incorrect terminology. Ultra-wides, in RHW-land (Area 57, anypony?), refer to a network that exceeds the standard limit of draggability, that is, it's either bigger than a two-tile wide S-network or bigger than a 3-tile wide C-network. Take that to NWM, and the only possible Ultra-Wides are probably a 4-tile AVE-10 and maybe a three-tile OWR-8. TLA-7 and AVE-6 are, therefore, standard-wide.
I see.
And you left this:
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on August 20, 2012, 06:46:41 AM
One of those conversations occurred when I was still a NAM Team Associate, with which I replied with:
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on January 23, 2011, 12:33:47 PM
It wouldn't work, since individual paths cannot be reversed at regular intervals. The closest thing to making such a network functional is to have two paths in the middle lane, each in two different directions.
Then again, it was from someone who questioned the usefulness of even the simplest of all NWM functionalities, and even (blatantly) pushed us into making an impractically narrow network.
There was even a third proposal by someone who created a REV-5 by dragging two halves of an OWR-5 in two different directions. (I honestly didn't know what he was doing until he explained it.)
I learned all of that 4 years ago. A functional reversible road would be nearly impossible (given the miracles that have occurred over the years I'm now reluctant to say anything is straight-up impossible). I was referring more to a cosmetic piece set for an ARD-3 or a OWR-2, preferably combined with props (the lane control lights).
QuoteREV-3 has the same priority as, say, a single-sided TLA (which, for the record, I have actually seen)
Now that's what I call strange.
Quote[...]or an AVE-2 whose barrier is replaced with double double yellow lines (prototypical equivalent was seen as a TuLEP piece).
I see. However, it's worth noting that something similar to that is seen in the current WRHW-2 cosmetic pieces.
QuoteAll of which fall under the category of NWM Cosmetic pieces (and those don't even exist!!!), and would need to wait until NAM 32 dev even begins. (I make no guarantees that such pieces would even make it in.)
I figure it's low priority, but I thought I would raise the issue. When NAM 32 begins development, I don't think cosmetic pieces would present much of a problem, and I'm pretty sure that natural progress will lead to NWM cosmetic pieces being made at some point. Whether that's months or years away (or many NAM versions away) remains to be seen. For the record, I'm not in any hurry.
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on August 20, 2012, 06:45:49 PM
Not making the cut does happen a lot, though from my experience it's more of a case of putting off something to another release than cancelling the feature entirely. If I'm not mistaken TLA-9's and AVE-8's are still slated to appear at some future date.
I learned all of that 4 years ago. A functional reversible road would be nearly impossible (given the miracles that have occurred over the years I'm now reluctant to say anything is straight-up impossible). I was referring more to a cosmetic piece set for an ARD-3 or a OWR-2, preferably combined with props (the lane control lights).
Now that's what I call strange.
1. It's more of a "If we did include it, it would mean that you'd have to wait even longer for a release" kind of case, and if we did manage to include everything we could possibly think of into just one single dev cycle as opposed to the several that we do for a single project, Alex puts it best when he says that it gives the impression that the NAM itself is cancelled (or delayed indefinitely).
So, ask yourself: Would you want to have something presentable "now" or wait so long for it that you think it's never gonna be released?
AVE-8 and TLA-9, for the record, are expected to make a comeback, but I'd anticipate it to be a NAM 32 feature, not a NAM 31 feature.
2. The overhead lights would need a whole new prop, which would need someone to BAT for us.
The puzzle piece, mind you, is easy to make (and it's the easiest form of RULing you'd expect, unless it's 3D). Attaching the props to it is also fairly easy, but only when you have the prop you even need in the first place. Otherwise, that would mean many hours or days of making a whole new prop and attaching it to a second copy of the first puzzle piece when it probably would be easier to use a lot-based solution with an overhanging prop.
It's because of that that, in my opinion, SSTLA pieces are easier to make than REV pieces, unless you exclude the overhead lights altogether.
3. Not really... With a standard TLA network, both sides of traffic can turn left (assuming right-hand drive), but an SSTLA restricts turning on one side. Imagine on one side of a TLA, you have a few stores, but on the other side, you have a river.
These are more in line with NWM pieces that are too specialised to be full-fledged networks, such as asymmetrical AVEs, asymmetrical TLAs, and the ARD-4 Alex proposed. They'll either fall under the category of specialised NWM pieces or (in some cases) TuLEPs.\
Exclude the draggable stuff, and the current NWM scheme (0x513##### to 0x515#####) only accounts for simple items, such as curves, transitions, and NC pieces. There's currently no category for specialised NWM pieces or cosmetic pieces.
I'll respond to a few of the ideas proposed here.
First off, I'd say there's a very good chance of seeing a few NWM cosmetic pieces in a future release. The NWM takes a lot of design cues from the RHW, and vice-versa (in fact, the original plans that
jplumbley and I had involved the RHW being swallowed by NWM), and that's a logical addition. A mock reversible-lane setup would make sense that way. So far, I haven't found a way to make reversible-lanes functional yet--my experiments have involved One-Way Roads, but the hard-coded tidal flow mechanism has thwarted that thus far.
As far as the TLA-9 and AVE-8, part of the hang-up there is the implementation. I've been considering changing it from an all-Road-based network to a hybrid approach, with an OWR-Road-OWR "sandwich" coming out of a starter piece. I'll need to do some further experimentation to really explore the pros and cons of that approach (one thing I know off that bat is that it'll kill functional traffic signals without cosmetic pieces/TuLEPs), and that probably won't happen until the NAM 32 development cycle begins.
With regards to a TuLEP setup for TLA-7/AVE-6 x TLA-7/AVE-6 intersections, that is a small thing that could conceivably be "sneaked into" NAM 31, along with the small offering of transition pieces for which we already have textures.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on August 20, 2012, 10:48:14 PM
1. It's more of a "If we did include it, it would mean that you'd have to wait even longer for a release" kind of case, and if we did manage to include everything we could possibly think of into just one single dev cycle as opposed to the several that we do for a single project, Alex puts it best when he says that it gives the impression that the NAM itself is cancelled (or delayed indefinitely).
So, ask yourself: Would you want to have something presentable "now" or wait so long for it that you think it's never gonna be released?
We're already running into that sort of situation already, given that it's been 11 months since the last NAM. P57 has been an insanely huge undertaking, and when it's all said and done, it'll probably encompass millions (yes, millions) of lines of RUL2 code. (Full adjacency stability causes exponential growth--fortunately, we've refined the specs further and I've made templates so I don't go completely insane. :D)
-Alex
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on August 20, 2012, 10:48:14 PM
1. It's more of a "If we did include it, it would mean that you'd have to wait even longer for a release" kind of case, and if we did manage to include everything we could possibly think of into just one single dev cycle as opposed to the several that we do for a single project, Alex puts it best when he says that it gives the impression that the NAM itself is cancelled (or delayed indefinitely).
So, ask yourself: Would you want to have something presentable "now" or wait so long for it that you think it's never gonna be released?
I'd like to have the most that the NAM team can offer as soon as they can offer it. So, if there's a set of features that are complete except for one or two features that are lagging behind, I'd rather have the complete features released now and add in the two laggards later. I support the NAM's current approach.
As for Tarkus's posts, I like what I'm seeing. The status of all of the ideas is about what I expected (you've done a great job of clarifying the NAM Team's plans and attitudes).
I was wondering (apologies if this has been asked before) if diagonal intersections for OWR-3 or any other network are planned for the future.
Thanks!
Quote from: itsacoaster on August 22, 2012, 04:45:57 PM
I was wondering (apologies if this has been asked before) if diagonal intersections for OWR-3 or any other network are planned for the future.
Not until well after NAM 31.
There already are some diagonal intersections in the NWM (none for OWR-3, as I recall), but they're offered "as-is" and are unsupported. The TLA-3 has the most. We won't really be touching the draggable side of the NWM again until NAM 32. The NWM is due to get a total back-end coding revamp like the RHW has with P57, and that sort of functionality will be explored in-depth then.
In the meanwhile, I had a boot-sector fail on my laptop HD yesterday morning. I fortunately retrieved all my important files (including the NAM stuff I had in development), but I'm still running off an Ubuntu disc I burnt on a whim last year, and am in "computational limbo" at the moment.
-Alex
Hi Tarkus & others,
First, thanks a lot for the amazing work on the NWM ! :)
A friend has an issue with the smooth curves from the NWM, a red/white ugly texture appear on each side of the road...
So he does have latest NAM, NWM etc... I guess this is probably not related to the NWM itself, but from an other mod ? Does anyone have an idea ? Here is a picture :
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg222.imageshack.us%2Fimg222%2F9838%2F5766416011.jpg&hash=70f3d02d5b75163bd522591dc05641c2765836b4) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/222/5766416011.jpg/)
Thanks a lot,
Benoit.
^ The mod that triggers the appearance of sidewalks for curves is Cat Punch jpn sidewalk mod. The folder name if unchanged should be something like "z_NAM_FARpieces_FaceLift_Mod"
But the red texture in itself come from another mod, maybe JRJ street side mod or more probably a japanese facelift mod... Most likely there is a "z" at the beginning of the name too
Hi everyone, I have few problems with the MAVE 6 (I supposed that it's his name)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.noelshack.com%2Ffichiers%2F2012%2F34%2F1345993933-bug-with-nwm-1.jpg&hash=5b0ed31071a724bab42750de1e816ef22a90b01e)
Connexion with the nearby town = Bug with work path
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.noelshack.com%2Ffichiers%2F2012%2F34%2F1345993943-bug-with-nwm-2.jpg&hash=b84e52932f88b976971684f58409e4815dfbb982)
No connexion = no bug
How to fix that without erase the MAVE connexion ?
Actually, that looks like a normal AVE6. I swore that the "C" type networks still had a functional center connection, but I guess not in this case.
Next to the NWM icon there should be one for NWM Neighbor Connections. Tab through it until you find the one for AVE6 (if it has one), and plop it down over the connection. That should hopefully fix it.
You may need to move your street intersection for that fix.
Not working sorry, there is always abandonment with connexion.
What's in the other city? Sounds like sims are commuting to a city tile with no jobs.
Are you using the neighbor connector piece? I have an AVE-6 neighbor connection in one of my cities that works without significant issue (though commuters do tend to crowd the center tile).
-Alex
Quote from: Wiimeiser on August 26, 2012, 05:48:50 PM
What's in the other city? Sounds like sims are commuting to a city tile with no jobs.
The nearby city is residential, but if I place a avenue or road (or others NWM ways) there is no abandonment.
Quote from: Tarkus on August 26, 2012, 05:55:50 PM
Are you using the neighbor connector piece? I have an AVE-6 neighbor connection in one of my cities that works without significant issue (though commuters do tend to crowd the center tile).
-Alex
Of course and for any ways of the NWM and the RHW, but only the AVE 6, the TLA 7, and the RHW 6C makes bugs with the work path, and in all of my cities.
Have you checked if you have installed the right driving side of all NAM related plugins? Each plugin (RHW, NWM, etc.) has it's own LHD-patch. Maybe that causes the problem...
Quote from: MandelSoft on August 27, 2012, 04:47:32 AM
Have you checked if you have installed the right driving side of all NAM related plugins? Each plugin (RHW, NWM, etc.) has it's own LHD-patch. Maybe that causes the problem...
All plugins are in RHD versions (I have fully reinstalled the NAM this afternoon) but the problem persist. &mmm
I am having the same/similar issue with MAVE6.
I make the neighbour connection to city A, plop the connector piece and the traffic goes well into city A. but when I load city A, from the neighbour connection only ped and bus traffic flows and just a small amount. I had to change into RHW6 to have a functional neighbour connection
Hello, NAM-team!
I have not written, but now I think of interesting questions. In NAM 31 will have a T-intersection on AVE-4/AVE-6 because it is very necessary, but so far, no one? The other thing that interests me is whether you are still in the third phase and line rulers who have reached? However, this time phase will be nearly 20 and the lines - over a million. I'd love to see some photos and development, if any.
Quote from: ivo_su on August 28, 2012, 01:36:02 PM
In NAM 31 will have a T-intersection on AVE-4/AVE-6 because it is very necessary, but so far, no one?
I thought there was one already . . . it's hard to keep track of all those T-intersections sometimes. :D
Quote from: ivo_su on August 28, 2012, 01:36:02 PM
The other thing that interests me is whether you are still in the third phase and line rulers who have reached? However, this time phase will be nearly 20 and the lines - over a million. I'd love to see some photos and development, if any.
I'm guessing you're referring to P57 on the RHW side--with that, we're still working out some logistics of getting the code in there (mainly as there's so much), and re-assembling the models to meet with the revised specs. There's not really much to look at right now, aside from a ton of code.
-Alex
Quote
I thought there was one already . . . it's hard to keep track of all those T-intersections sometimes. :D
I meant this intersection.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg411.imageshack.us%2Fimg411%2F9303%2F31304342.png&hash=d048e2b35b94120de2b8bd25af522dbf46aa698c)
I knew you meant that intersection. I thought it existed already, but judging by that image, it appears it hasn't been. Shouldn't be difficult to add, though there's the added complexity of NWM having a P57-type re-write planned (which, depending on what we decide with the new IID scheme, will end up being called Project 51, Project 56, or Project 5C).
-Alex
Fun fact: Ave-6/TLA-7 TuLEPS can work with other some NWM networks:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FnEjNg.jpg&hash=1926c65eba84a0a4ba48dfa944cb31fefe6fcf42)
Not only does this OWR intersection look right, that turn is properly pathed as well!
The more you know ::)
Quote from: Haljackey on August 31, 2012, 09:57:03 PM
Fun fact: Ave-6/TLA-7 TuLEPS can work with other some NWM networks:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FnEjNg.jpg&hash=1926c65eba84a0a4ba48dfa944cb31fefe6fcf42)
Not only does this OWR intersection look right, that turn is properly pathed as well!
The more you know ::)
I did that same thing today for the first time (TLA-7 intersecting with OWR-3) :o.
Something worth noting: Although the OWR-3/AVE-6 T-crossing does work with the given TuLEPs, the number of lanes that make up the OWR-3 doesn't match the number of turning lanes that make it up. Pathfixing it is nowhere near a priority, but this is where advanced TuLEPs would come in, anyway.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg19.imageshack.us%2Fimg19%2F7526%2Fimage72866.jpg&hash=c9fde9f95198b4a500ca7461dde00b63e2f1ba1f)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg546.imageshack.us%2Fimg546%2F3724%2Fg9734.jpg&hash=0b8373899e98867834fec412360a6c9d0780b2a8)
Agreed with the OWR flowing into the intersection, but for the one flowing out, those "missing" ones are illegal turns.
Quote from: jondor on September 01, 2012, 11:18:47 PM
Agreed with the OWR flowing into the intersection, but for the one flowing out, those "missing" ones are illegal turns.
Agreed. By that mentality, all three lanes would turn right for OWR-4/5. Interesting stuff to ponder about.
But which setups are practical and which ones are downright illegal? (I admittedly just drew the arrows willy-nilly...)
Are tulips supposed to be red?
The inflowing OWR is perfectly legal and practical. The left turn onto the center lane of the outflowing OWR is also practical, but needs additional lane markings to make it legal, it could stay. The right turn onto the center lane is illegal and suicidal since you are crossing a through traffic lane. Not that that stops some people I've seen driving...
Generally right turn from center lane is marked with "No Turn On Red Except Curb Lane" and the left turn is always going to be protected so it doesn't matter anyways.
QuoteThe right turn onto the center lane is illegal and suicidal since you are crossing a through traffic lane
Which is why I don't understand, that in despite of how dangerous this is at a regular intersection, that they made it okay for avenue roundabouts in my reality, and even use arrows to indicate as your headed straight thru the circle, someone on the left side of you, will make a right in front of you, but if your a semi, you have no choice, or if your in the left lane headed thru the traffic circle, someone on your right, will cut in front of you, so they can get across. It sounds hosed up.
The thing Jondor mentioned with the additional lane markings, was in concept, and there even was a working American texture even made, but that advanced TuLEP piece does not exist at present.
Quote from: j-dub on September 05, 2012, 10:26:18 AM
QuoteThe right turn onto the center lane is illegal and suicidal since you are crossing a through traffic lane
Which is why I don't understand, that in despite of how dangerous this is at a regular intersection, that they made it okay for avenue roundabouts in my reality, and even use arrows to indicate as your headed straight thru the circle, someone on the left side of you, will make a right in front of you, but if your a semi, you have no choice, or if your in the left lane headed thru the traffic circle, someone on your right, will cut in front of you, so they can get across. It sounds hosed up.
That's probably why here in the Netherlands almost all single-lane roundabouts give priority to all on-roundabout traffic. Almost all multi-lane roundabouts are stoplight-controlled or converted to turbo-roundabouts...
I'm typing this on my iPod Touch, so just giving an advisory for future errors.
Will there be a One-tile 4-lane road <--> AVE-4/MAVE-4/AVE-2 conversion? Still annoies me that I have to convert the one tile avenue back ro road, then back to AVE-4 thus taking up loads of space.
Under proper terminology, that would be an NRD-4 to AVE-4, NRD-4 to RD-4, and NRD-4 to AVE-2 transition.
Chances are, those could be included into the NWM for NAM 31, considering that they're small enough. As of NRD-4 to AVE-2, there's no transition texture made for it.
Remember that there's a planned namechange with several of the NWM's networks, and that it's that all "MAVE" networks are going to be renamed to "RD". The reason is simple: They're simply bigger versions of the Road network, and it also eliminates the chance of anyone confusing it with the triple-tile NWM network of AVE-6.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 11, 2012, 03:55:56 PM
Under proper terminology, that would be an NRD-4 to AVE-4, NRD-4 to RD-4, and NRD-4 to AVE-2 transition.
Chances are, those could be included into the NWM for NAM 31, considering that they're small enough. As of NRD-4 to AVE-2, there's no transition texture made for it.
Remember that there's a planned namechange with several of the NWM's networks, and that it's that all "MAVE" networks are going to be renamed to "RD". The reason is simple: They're simply bigger versions of the Road network, and it also eliminates the chance of anyone confusing it with the triple-tile NWM network of AVE-6.
figures I just figure out all the different acronyms and you guys go and change em on me. Its like you want me to fail the test :)
(I am kidding of course)
Quote from: mike3775 on September 11, 2012, 05:13:34 PM
figures I just figure out all the different acronyms and you guys go and change em on me. Its like you want me to fail the test :)
(I am kidding of course)
I'd probably pass, but just barely. :P
On
CasperVG's Twitch Tv stream today we were talking about how many of us still say Rural Highway instead of Real Highway, but at least that acronym hasn't changed.
Perhaps it might be a good idea to make a sticky topic on one of the NAM boards clearly defining these terms.
I'd ace the test, but as I was involved in the creation of many of those acronyms, that's not entirely fair. :D Sounds like I might be the guy to make that thread. ::)
-Alex
Quote from: Haljackey on September 11, 2012, 06:39:29 PM
Quote from: mike3775 on September 11, 2012, 05:13:34 PM
figures I just figure out all the different acronyms and you guys go and change em on me. Its like you want me to fail the test :)
(I am kidding of course)
I'd probably pass, but just barely. :P
On CasperVG's Twitch Tv stream today we were talking about how many of us still say Rural Highway instead of Real Highway, but at least that acronym hasn't changed.
Perhaps it might be a good idea to make a sticky topic on one of the NAM boards clearly defining these terms.
Its still Rural to me, and its not because I refuse to change, its just that is what it was still being called when I quit playing the game for awhile in late 2009, and didn't start playing it again until early last year(2011) and thats when I realized the name had changed from Rural to Real, but dang it, I am 37, to old to change :)(incidentally I still call renamed sports venues in my area their old non corporate names like Comiskey Park(US Cellular Field) and Rosemont Horizon(All State Arena)
Quote from: mike3775 on September 11, 2012, 07:42:08 PM
Its still Rural to me, and its not because I refuse to change, its just that is what it was still being called when I quit playing the game for awhile in late 2009, and didn't start playing it again until early last year(2011) and thats when I realized the name had changed from Rural to Real, but dang it, I am 37, to old to change :)(incidentally I still call renamed sports venues in my area their old non corporate names like Comiskey Park(US Cellular Field) and Rosemont Horizon(All State Arena)
Just as long as you don't repeat the fallacious statement that RHWs shouldn't be built in "urban areas" because the "R" stands for "Rural". ::) Nothing grates on my nerves more. :D
-Alex
There have been a few times that I've stated that calling RHW rural is an understatement of its potential, in an attempt of dispelling that misconception. Then I said that the AVE networks are like a divided highway but not a real highway...
Speaking of misconceptions, there's one in the NWM itself that no one has even mentioned. The only ironic network available in the NWM is the OWR-1 in that instead of widening, it's narrowing. Only 7.69% (1 out of 13) of the NWM's current networks makes me wanna say "Network Narrowing Mod". :P
Then there's the MIS. That's supposed to refer to the set of "stuff" for RHW interchange construction (which is really the RHW itself; I suppose MIS-2 was supposed to be what RHW-4 is now...). Now people think of it as being the MIS network, but I think we've collectively succeeded in getting lost with random trivia...
I guess you're right Ganaram. 1 lane one-way roads are essentially a 'thinning' of the default one-ways, yet they're a part of the NWM. Oxymoron anyone?
I normally refer to the MIS as 'MIS ramps', although I guess you could call it RHW-1 if you want (similar to OWR-1). The MIS itself involves ramp pieces, MIS ramps and often other MIS infrastructure included with the RHW mod (such as flexfly and the like).
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 11, 2012, 08:17:25 PM
The only ironic network available in the NWM is the OWR-1 in that instead of widening, it's narrowing.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdN31D.png&hash=0ba664537f256b4a82fc749e83dd8774f3491aa5)
-Alex
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg542.imageshack.us%2Fimg542%2F6787%2Fpeninsula35jan001347461.th.png&hash=d33e8dfb4fe8a77c136f714049819d9c99a4fa4c) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/peninsula35jan001347461.png/)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F6787%2Fpeninsula35jan001347461.th.png&hash=a52b837e5bb82d8e33106d793e2dc79a74c95b46) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/peninsula35jan001347461.png/)
For some reason I can't have turn lanes near the single-tile NWM networks. Is this a bug with the NWM, Turn Lane Plugin, or Euro textures?
EDIT: Almost forgot! Missing path file:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.imageshack.us%2Fimg11%2F9711%2Fpeninsula35jan001347460.png&hash=9a7e2801ea5b281c7876c61dcc79c0197a2d2a93)
By wiimeiser (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/wiimeiser) at 2012-09-12
Dunno if it's just LHD though. Didn't affect me in that case as I was going to extend the TLA-3 past there anyway, and that intersection has paths.
Quote from: Tarkus on September 11, 2012, 10:24:52 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdN31D.png&hash=0ba664537f256b4a82fc749e83dd8774f3491aa5)
-Alex
Don't tell me you're hoarding a ground level FLEXFLY, and that it's OWR-1 instead of MIS...
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 12, 2012, 08:06:21 AM
For some reason I can't have turn lanes near the single-tile NWM networks. Is this a bug with the NWM, Turn Lane Plugin, or Euro textures?
You're not supposed to have Road turn lanes near single-tile NWM networks. As the Road Turning Lanes Plugin has very invasive RUL2 code, which has a tendency to disrupt NWM overrides, there's several thousand lines of code (nearly as much as the NWM itself) obliterating RTLs near NWM/Road and Road-based NWM/NWM intersections. If anything, that pic suggests my obliteration code isn't forceful enough.
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 12, 2012, 08:06:21 AM
Dunno if it's just LHD though. Didn't affect me in that case as I was going to extend the TLA-3 past there anyway, and that intersection has paths.
That one is intentionally missing. The OWR-3-ending-in-OWR-2 T-intersection technically has to exist in order for an OWR-3-ending-in-OWR-3 T-intersection to work, but in and of itself, it's a nonsense intersection. Where does that third lane go? ::)
-Alex
Alex: I think he was referring to TLA-3, but you make a good point too :P
Thanks for catching me there, Kenny--it was hard to see that he had a Euro TLA-3 there with the screenshots being in night-time mode.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on September 11, 2012, 08:00:02 PM
Quote from: mike3775 on September 11, 2012, 07:42:08 PM
Its still Rural to me, and its not because I refuse to change, its just that is what it was still being called when I quit playing the game for awhile in late 2009, and didn't start playing it again until early last year(2011) and thats when I realized the name had changed from Rural to Real, but dang it, I am 37, to old to change :)(incidentally I still call renamed sports venues in my area their old non corporate names like Comiskey Park(US Cellular Field) and Rosemont Horizon(All State Arena)
Just as long as you don't repeat the fallacious statement that RHWs shouldn't be built in "urban areas" because the "R" stands for "Rural". ::) Nothing grates on my nerves more. :D
-Alex
Being a born smart a$$ I normally would say it just to get a rise out of you, but I won't because I know how you feel on that issue and I agree with you :)
I assume nothing short of a total rewrite of possibly trillions of lines of code would fix the bugs you mention?
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 12, 2012, 05:20:06 PM
I assume nothing short of a total rewrite of possibly trillions of lines of code would fix the bugs you mention?
You volunteering for that mission? :)
Quote from: mike3775 on September 12, 2012, 06:09:02 PM
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 12, 2012, 05:20:06 PM
I assume nothing short of a total rewrite of possibly trillions of lines of code would fix the bugs you mention?
You volunteering for that mission? :)
:D
If you wanted full stability of every possible situation where the RTL could interfere with the Road-based NWM networks, it would indeed take a massive amount of code. Trillions of lines would actually overload the DAT file. When the RUL2 file is stored compressed (as it was before NAM 30), it can contain about 270,000 lines of code. Due to how Maxis set up the file headers for compressed and uncompressed files, the uncompressed file can actually store a lot more, and we had to go uncompressed with NAM 30 in order to fit the SAM ultra-stability project (~247,000 lines by itself). (It's also worth noting that uncompressed RUL files, while taking up more hard drive space, can be loaded considerably faster by the game.)
The theoretical line-count limit for a RUL2 file, stored uncompressed, is around 72.7 million lines. This would be a 4.3GB file (using the decimal SI prefixes, not the binary ones). Tests done so far have found that much smaller files can actually crash the Reader.
Actually, there's a vastly easier, more painless way--put the old Road Turning Lanes Plugin out of its misery. It was designed years before anyone would have thought we'd have a ton of Road-override widening networks, and while it was brilliant in its day and age, it would be considered bad software design by today's NAM standards.
-Alex
Edit: Fixed minor grammatical thing that slipped as I was rephrasing things.
Quote from: Tarkus on September 12, 2012, 07:16:04 PM
Quote from: mike3775 on September 12, 2012, 06:09:02 PM
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 12, 2012, 05:20:06 PM
I assume nothing short of a total rewrite of possibly trillions of lines of code would fix the bugs you mention?
You volunteering for that mission? :)
Actually, there's a vastly easier, more painless way--put the old Road Turning Lanes Plugin out of its misery. It was designed years before anyone would have thought we'd have a ton of Road-override widening networks, and while it was brilliant in its day and age, it would be considered bad software design by today's NAM standards.
-Alex
I often wondered what the installation rate is on that. I've never selected it, because I never liked having every road intersection have left turn lanes(which is why I like Tuleps, you can pick and choose), and most city journals I have read rarely have them either.
So what you're saying that the RTL is a relic and that it was made using now-subpar standards.
I still see some utility behind it, but recent developments has proven it to be... Intrusive... Still, if you wanna decommision the RTL, you'd still need legacy support. Not a problem.
Just for the record, on the short scale, a trillion is a million millions. On the long scale, it would be different. One estimate of the maximum amount of RUL-2 code needed for just RHW would be 17 million lines, barely a fourth of the RUL-2's maximum capacity, so in order to even have a trillion lines of RUL-2 code, it would need to be about 59.147 TERABYTES. ()testing() Most computers today have only about 4-16GB RAM...
A long scale trillion is a short scale quintillion. Just multiply the previous numbers by another million and you get 59.147 exabytes. That's more than 1/10th of the World Wide Web back in 2009.
Good luck downloading that. :P
Quote from: mike3775 on September 12, 2012, 07:27:21 PM
I often wondered what the installation rate is on that. I've never selected it, because I never liked having every road intersection have left turn lanes(which is why I like Tuleps, you can pick and choose), and most city journals I have read rarely have them either.
When the NAM installer was first implemented back in 2005, the NAM Team of that time decided to have the Avenue Turning Lanes (ATL) checked by default, but not the Road Turning Lanes (RTL). The reasoning for that was partially what you described, though it goes a little beyond. Back in those days, computer systems were a fraction of what they are today, and there was concern about the RTL's impact on system performance. Because users generally had more Road/Road intersections than Avenue/Avenue intersections in their cities, it was thought that it'd have a much greater effect, and of course, the team was already trying to proof against the "speed-clickers", who would hit "Next" without bothering to read the options (or the Readme).
There's actually been a long-running but sporadic debate about the future of the RTL within the NAM Team and among transit-modding followers for about 5 years.
jplumbley and I had run into problems with the RTL's "onion coding" and lack of encapsulation, early on in NWM development, and began pitching the idea of replacing it with an alternative plugin. He designed a prototype that was draggable, and involved a pattern with Street-Road transitions before intersections. There was a development thread with a poll
here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2629.0), if you really want a look back. That poll, by the way, saw 89% of voters supporting an RTL revamp, with only 7.7% supporting keeping it as-is (and 3.3% without an opinion). The new RTL, however, received a lukewarm response from the NAM Associates in testing, and kind of fell off the map.
When the NWM was revived in 2009-2010, we planned on basically declaring it incompatible with the RTL. Beyond the initial implementation of the SPUI in RHW 4.0, the NWM was part of the justification for TuLEPs, and there was again talk of the RTL outliving its useful life with that development occurring. However, the more conservative elements in the NAM Team insisted that we keep it, because it had been there for so long, and was "automatic". Shortly thereafter, I took a "brute force" approach, and wrote the mess of RTL-obliterating RUL2 code for the Road-based NWM networks, which kind of dodged the issue.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on September 12, 2012, 09:58:17 PM
So what you're saying that the RTL is a relic and that it was made using now-subpar standards.
I still see some utility behind it, but recent developments has proven it to be... Intrusive... Still, if you wanna decommision the RTL, you'd still need legacy support. Not a problem.
The guy who coded it (
Teirusu) deserves a lot of credit--especially as he basically got
qurlix started on the RHW. But it's definitely not something that meets modern NAM standards. When the RTL was developed, the NAM Team was mostly a group of people who made puzzle pieces (Maxis Highway pre-fabs were the "holy grail" back then). RUL2 was seen as a largely useless file, little more than something to produce "ornamental" content (like the RTL) or make minor tweaks to RUL1 and INRUL modifications, rather than the conveyance for the ubiquitous override network system that now forms the backbone of what we do today.
-Alex
I hope Teirusu is doing great today, he did so much for the game in the early days when people started figuring out how to "jury rig" the game to make it way better than Maxis released. And the fact that others have not only carried on the work that he and a few others started originally, but improved upon it, shows that the game will never die.
I often read of "the good ol days" in threads every so often, and yes, those days were great, but the fact that even today, there are groups of people who are continuing it, shows that the "good ol days" never really ended.
I still remember when the NAM came out that had multiple ramps for the MHW, that opened up so much of thegame, no longer being stuck to the same boring interchanges ovwer and over free to build different styles was great. Then finding out about the possibilities of the RHW, then the NWM, man, its been a great ride for the past 9 years for sure.
Honestly, I am always fascinated by the brilliance of the RTL plugin's implementation. It has been done in such a clever way hardly any other NAM plugin can keep up with. It causing trouble with override networks, which have become so popular, does not affect the RTL plugin's cleverness at all. I do understand the problems though, but it should be possible to override the RTLs just like any other networks, as has been done for the NWM. Yet, my supporting of the RTL plugin is not due to me being "conservative". I am usually supportive of new things, but not, if it discards a nearly perfect plugin.
Edit:
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 12, 2012, 08:06:21 AM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg542.imageshack.us%2Fimg542%2F6787%2Fpeninsula35jan001347461.th.png&hash=d33e8dfb4fe8a77c136f714049819d9c99a4fa4c) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/peninsula35jan001347461.png/)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F6787%2Fpeninsula35jan001347461.th.png&hash=a52b837e5bb82d8e33106d793e2dc79a74c95b46) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/peninsula35jan001347461.png/)
Looking closely at those pictures, it appears there is some very strange problem related to flipped textures. Note that the second picture does not have to do anything with NWM at all. It would be helpful to check the paths using the drawpaths cheat. I assume it is just a missing texture in the euro texture mod's LHD files.
You're the last that I'd call a "conservative NAMite", particularly since you've led the charge on many revolutionary modding techniques. :) I agree that the RTL is a clever piece of code (and it takes quite some time to decipher), and my criticism of it is entirely on the basis of how it runs interference on override networks, due to how it is encapsulated.
-Alex
Any plans to join these one day?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOxqBt.jpg&hash=27b6797dd2a40f5163da5c175e486b18f6ba5a41)
I once made textures for this, but oddly enough this hasn't been implented yet, though it would be very logical...
Quote from: Haljackey on October 01, 2012, 09:58:19 AM
Any plans to join these one day?
I sure hope there are, because it would make my RHW-3 expressways much more viable, in the sense that in the surface street-to-expressway transition it wouldn't have to transition to a road first and then expand to its previous size, thus creating a bottleneck.
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on October 01, 2012, 11:49:43 AM
I sure hope there are, because it would make my RHW-3 expressways much more viable, in the sense that in the surface street-to-expressway transition it wouldn't have to transition to a road first and then expand to its previous size, thus creating a bottleneck.
Two or four lines (maybe eight) of RUL-2 code at best. It really isn't that hard to add in. Is the texture there? I dunno... &Thk/(
Though this would be the poor man's way of connecting the two together: "Slam down" two puzzle pieces that don't exactly fit aesthetically, but fit perfectly by pathing. Same with the MIS-OWR-1 transition.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg515%2F767%2Fcapturetlavsowr.jpg&hash=b8659db146e92f7317a7f6bc688aab8566a2a781)
Except instead of OWR-5 and TLA-5, you instead use RHW-3 and ARD-3 starters in the correct rotation and position. This only works on flat land, because these use false intersections, which tend to be slope-intolerant.
Seeing that OWR5 reminds me, is it possible for OWR4 and 5 to be dragged diagonally? I ask because when i attempt it, the start of the curve acts like it (adopts a curving texture) but the very first diagonal tile resets to standard road network. Whatever dragging combo i try, nothing works properly so i assume it's not possible (or my skills are weak).
There's some issues with dragging the OWR-4 and OWR-5 diagonals with the OWR Arrow Reduction Plugin. That Plugin actually changes the IID for the OWR diagonal, and there isn't RUL2 code in place to convert those changed OWRs over at present. You'll need to pull that plugin out in order to make those diagonals in the meanwhile.
-Alex
Aha! Thank you, sir. That is a huge help.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 01, 2012, 12:00:32 PM
Quote from: Patricius Maximus on October 01, 2012, 11:49:43 AM
I sure hope there are, because it would make my RHW-3 expressways much more viable, in the sense that in the surface street-to-expressway transition it wouldn't have to transition to a road first and then expand to its previous size, thus creating a bottleneck.
Two or four lines (maybe eight) of RUL-2 code at best. It really isn't that hard to add in. Is the texture there? I dunno... &Thk/(
That's good to know. If the texture isn't there it would be a simple matter to make it.
QuoteThough this would be the poor man's way of connecting the two together: "Slam down" two puzzle pieces that don't exactly fit aesthetically, but fit perfectly by pathing. Same with the MIS-OWR-1 transition.
[...]
Except instead of OWR-5 and TLA-5, you instead use RHW-3 and ARD-3 starters in the correct rotation and position. This only works on flat land, because these use false intersections, which tend to be slope-intolerant.
I'm a rich man, so I eschew grotesque methods such as that :P.
Quote from: haljackey(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOxqBt.jpg&hash=27b6797dd2a40f5163da5c175e486b18f6ba5a41)
I just keep the piece for that road in tact, and use the RHW filler piece right after the road's piece for this reason, I mean, for right now, there are at least a couple of road TuLEPs to choose, that could fit the gap here too, and while that may not be The transition, it at least it gives you the right of way.
Meanwhile, over at the NWM Euro Texture Workshop...
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Fmrtnrln%2FSimCity4-Stuff%2Fdh-road-markings.jpg&hash=05cbe4f3f8e351ed7beb63ea8860799173358a9c)
Now who can catch the brony reference?
More serious stuff will follow in the next few days. I'm making some good progress with the two and three-tile networks.
Best,
Maarten
Excellent work so far, but I'd like to ask something.
Can there please be a small 1x1 or 1x2 transition for the ARD-3 and/or RHW-3? A transition that switches the side of the 2-lanes of ARD-3 without switching back to standard road, then back to ARD-3/RHW-3. Such as: for about, say, 20 tiles, the 2 lanes of the ARD-3 is on the right hand side. Then the transition occurs, and the 2 lanes switches from the right hand side to the left side of the ARD-3.
This is what I mean with MS Paint:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi392.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp9%2FMBG141%2FARD3orRHW3transition.jpg&hash=0d848a92efe0061024e35c8d5e40848e870f657c)
I'd really like this for both ARD-3 and RHW-3, mainly for when I'm creating switch-backs with hill climbing lanes for freight traffic and buses. I've ran into numerous cases where this piece would really come in handy in mountainous areas.
There's a TuLEPs piece designed to fill this void, but it only works one way.
RHW-3's closest equivalent is to convert to WRHW-2 very briefly, and that's for simulated safety reasons. Most motorway priority changes like that usually are separated by at least a few metres of flush median.
Quote from: MandelSoft on October 22, 2012, 05:20:17 AM
Meanwhile, over at the NWM Euro Texture Workshop...
Yeah,...
It's a mystery... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vELn0VlSseo) &Thk/(
And that's why US roads where the lane lines are the same color for two way traffic drive me nuts!
You guys really left me no choice, since mentioning D.H. Road Markings.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.picvalley.net%2Fu%2F1614%2F140215962212798925401350946092r6xfW6g8inBoKLcvOvwi.JPG&hash=bb97808c76fee840431866ee29d2b8de9bdffbf7)
I think I know what went wrong though, because I can't figure out why someone who has wings, would make such a company, when they don't have as much experience with Rush Hour traffic patterns, due to that being more of an Earth-bound problem. When you can fly away, then why wait?
QuoteExcellent work so far, but I'd like to ask something.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.picvalley.net%2Fu%2F2587%2F14288226095022979411350948105YFa20fxPdJp6EHWXRRif.JPG&hash=ff63975c8617addfc2fdc71fb223967baf33ab51)
However, maybe it is time to demonstrate a solution via video or other means for the whole current method of connecting ARD and RHW together, don't know if I got the time to.
For connecting ARD-3 and RHW-3 I just drop starters next to each other if they're on the same side
OK, So I have read the entire FAQ section on page one as well as the entire first post actually. I do very much love the entire NAM series. I am only finding one small issue with the TULEPs. When I try to ad them next to the TLA-7 intersections, as in a TLA-7 across a TLA-7, it converts the entire area to single roads. As soon as I place a puzzle piece for a turn arrow, or blank, it borks the whole intersection. I am using the NWM TULEPs pieces, not the road TULEPs. I figured that would be the first thing you may think, is I am using the wrong pieces. But I did make sure I was putting what I was supposed to put where I supposed to put it. I also notice that there is no 3 X 3 intersection puzzle piece, and thought that this may mean a TLA-7 was never meant to intersect itself. If that is the case, no big, I will work around it.
Other that that, :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: to this entire project.
It is meant to be able to intersect itself and from memory there was such a piece in the Alpha versions, but it was cut due to the number of pathing fixes needed to get it working and the fact that it needed to be almost completely different for LHD.
The intersection will deconvert to the base network because there isn't enough of a stable override to keep it intact. The only solution is to not use the turning lanes before intersections that don't have an appropriate intersection piece. The traffic simulator won't use that turning lane at those intersections anyway because the intersection doesn't have paths for the turn from that lane.
Quote from: jdenm8 on October 22, 2012, 08:38:17 PM
It is meant to be able to intersect itself and from memory there was such a piece in the Alpha versions, but it was cut due to the number of pathing fixes needed to get it working and the fact that it needed to be almost completely different for LHD.
The intersection will deconvert to the base network because there isn't enough of a stable override to keep it intact. The only solution is to not use the turning lanes before intersections that don't have an appropriate intersection piece. The traffic simulator won't use that turning lane at those intersections anyway because the intersection doesn't have paths for the turn from that lane.
OH, ok. Thank you then. :D Just run the roads through and kinda skip the detailing on those pieces. Can Do.
I have two questions I would like to ask here, if acceptable...
1. In European roads, how is one able to tell which lanes head in a certain direction based on the fact that the dividing lines are all white?
2. I apologise if this is an inappropriate time to ask, but is a neighbor connecting piece planned for this network?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg850.imageshack.us%2Fimg850%2F3636%2Fdutchingsonoct131913514.png&hash=2ad193fdfa3b7660ff9ebb2821f568f726f290e0)
I do not need to know if it is going to be in the next release or not, just if it is planned. ^_^
Quote from: shinkansen1 on October 28, 2012, 05:58:12 PM
I have two questions I would like to ask here, if acceptable...
They most certainly are. :)
Quote from: shinkansen1 on October 28, 2012, 05:58:12 PM
1. In European roads, how is one able to tell which lanes head in a certain direction based on the fact that the dividing lines are all white?
I was curious about this myself some time ago, so in casual conversation some time ago, I asked some who live in areas where all-white markings are the norm. It's based on the length and width of the striping. In game, if you're running into some confusion with it, the DrawPaths cheat is a good fail-safe.
Quote from: shinkansen1 on October 28, 2012, 05:58:12 PM
2. I apologise if this is an inappropriate time to ask, but is a neighbor connecting piece planned for this network?
I do not need to know if it is going to be in the next release or not, just if it is planned. ^_^
It's not just planned--it already exists in the current release.
-Alex
*starts searching through pieces* Arigato, Tarkus!
Quote from: Tarkus on October 28, 2012, 06:38:26 PM
Quote from: shinkansen1 on October 28, 2012, 05:58:12 PM
1. In European roads, how is one able to tell which lanes head in a certain direction based on the fact that the dividing lines are all white?
I was curious about this myself some time ago, so in casual conversation some time ago, I asked some who live in areas where all-white markings are the norm. It's based on the length and width of the striping. In game, if you're running into some confusion with it, the DrawPaths cheat is a good fail-safe.
Well, there are more tricks when it comes too certain networks:
- The ARD-3, (N)RD-4 and RD-6 all have solid median lines (or at least, in the standard version).
- One way road has depending on which mod you use, longer striping (in case of SFBT's Euro TRM) or shorter striping and striping at curves (in case of my euro mod, which makes all lines at curves solid).
- The RHW has a narrow shoulder lane on the inside and a wider shoulder lane on the outside. The wider shoulder lane is about 3 times as wide as the inner one. I usually use this to distinct driving directions from the RHW.
I Have a question about the NWM Euro Textures and Costemic Mod: The AVE-6/TLA-7 TuLEP piece (the one with the arrow) is still American texture while all the others are European. Is it not included or the game didn't load it properly? :)
It's not included probably, because with the TuLEP Custom Arrow Mod I use, this effect is not present.
So when will the texture for the AVE-6/TLA-7 TuLEP piece come out?
Not sure, I haven't scheduled it yet. Probably you should use this instead: http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/28170-mandelsofts-custom-turn-arrow-sets-for-rhw-and-tuleps/
MandelSoft great work on that upload!!! :D
Hi guys! I have a small suggestion for more experienced lotters.
I was playing with TuLEPs and NWM's TLA, when I hit on an idea.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi443.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq160%2Fkbieniu7%2Ffsfsfsf.jpg&hash=4e9b5f71d38e1fb78631310406227c7f307bc6c1)
I thought about a TLA puzzle piece with pedestrian crossing, which could fill the above showed gap.
It's quite common on roads with bigger traffic, making the way easier and safer for pedestrians.
Wht do you think about it? :)
I also was wondering about a puzzle piece for TLA medians. I figured we didn't have any pieces like this, and I didn't know if it was planned or not. I thought it could be useful for situations where you don't want a full intersection but you don't want folks turning off the main artery to have to double back on themselves, or in the reverse situation where you don't want folks getting on the artery to have to double back and just be able to merge in with main artery traffic.
I don't know exactly how to describe it or the proper name for it, so I'll just post a link.
http://goo.gl/maps/jYCou
That would be nice!!!In London they have something similar in many roads...a sort of concrete sidewalk dividing the 2carriage...
Crosswalk-type pieces for NWM and default Road-type networks are something I'd be interested in adding. Would be very beneficial to using the PedMall pieces, no doubt.
-Alex
Yes indeed! This would be really great. Is it possible to create two pieces? One with a traffic light ensuring safety for peds and the other without.
Quote from: strucka on November 14, 2012, 02:50:33 PM
Yes indeed! This would be really great. Is it possible to create two pieces? One with a traffic light ensuring safety for peds and the other without.
I imagine they could use false intersections and pathing to make stop points.
Found a problem! There is no MAVE-6 to AVE-6 transition. =( Is that one in plans, or am I missing something, or did no one come across this transition yet?
I know a man who certainly motse create this piece and this is Matt (Dexter). He is truly the king of making textures and transitions.
One of these as well for AVE-6
http://goo.gl/maps/kX9rR
Quote from: Piteri on November 17, 2012, 04:57:01 AM
One of these as well for AVE-6
http://goo.gl/maps/kX9rR
Us Australian developers have been looking into the feasibility of adding Seagull intersections (both traffic light controlled and passively controlled) for a few months now. Something may happen in the future, maybe not for NAM31 though.
That would be nice
Can anyone help me on how to remove arrows on the one-way roads that come in NWM?
The single lane one-way and the multilane ones, all have those annoying arrow textures. I tried installing two different times (once with option for arrow textures checked, secondly with option unchecked). :(
Quote from: Priyon on November 22, 2012, 09:48:48 PM
Can anyone help me on how to remove arrows on the one-way roads that come in NWM?
There's currently no in-game (or rather in-NAM) option to remove NWM arrows. That can change...
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on November 22, 2012, 10:06:52 PM
Quote from: Priyon on November 22, 2012, 09:48:48 PM
Can anyone help me on how to remove arrows on the one-way roads that come in NWM?
There's currently no in-game (or rather in-NAM) option to remove NWM arrows. That can change...
I had seen a NWM video, and in that video there were no arrows on NWM one-ways.
Quote from: Priyon on November 22, 2012, 10:23:32 PM
I had seen a NWM video, and in that video there were no arrows on NWM one-ways.
Which video?
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on November 22, 2012, 10:24:20 PM
Quote from: Priyon on November 22, 2012, 10:23:32 PM
I had seen a NWM video, and in that video there were no arrows on NWM one-ways.
Which video?
This one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPBmx0RL7ts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPBmx0RL7ts)
Notice that when the author shows the types of networks, his one-way roads don't have any arrows.
Quote from: Priyon on November 22, 2012, 10:35:36 PM
Notice that when the author shows the types of networks, his one-way roads don't have any arrows.
Well, you're probably not gonna get an answer from that guy, because that was not the original uploader, it was someone who saved the original uploader's videos.
QuoteThis is a reupload to this video ever since ErwinNegentig got deleted. Most of his videos were recorded and the description had been preserved luckily.
It's
Tropod's No Arrow Mod. http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/21371-noonewayroadarrows/
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on November 22, 2012, 10:53:15 PM
Quote from: Priyon on November 22, 2012, 10:35:36 PM
Notice that when the author shows the types of networks, his one-way roads don't have any arrows.
Well, you're probably not gonna get an answer from that guy, because that was not the original uploader, it was someone who saved the original uploader's videos.
QuoteThis is a reupload to this video ever since ErwinNegentig got deleted. Most of his videos were recorded and the description had been preserved luckily.
It's Tropod's No Arrow Mod. http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/21371-noonewayroadarrows/
Thank you very much, it worked. ;D
I have noticed another minor problem though. Sometimes when I place starter pieces and drag the networks around and then delete the starter pieces when the road is complete, the construction sound remains. Even when there is nothing being constructed, it keeps playing. It occurs rarely though.
Quote from: Priyon on November 22, 2012, 11:15:38 PM
Sometimes when I place starter pieces and drag the networks around and then delete the starter pieces when the road is complete, the construction sound remains. Even when there is nothing being constructed, it keeps playing. It occurs rarely though.
That's an in-game bug that we have no control of, and you need to save and exit and then re-enter the city to get rid of it. I typically drag out four tiles at a time out of a freshy-placed starter, then drag as far as I want afterwards.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on November 22, 2012, 11:28:54 PM
Quote from: Priyon on November 22, 2012, 11:15:38 PM
Sometimes when I place starter pieces and drag the networks around and then delete the starter pieces when the road is complete, the construction sound remains. Even when there is nothing being constructed, it keeps playing. It occurs rarely though.
That's an in-game bug that we have no control of, and you need to save and exit and then re-enter the city to get rid of it. I typically drag out four tiles at a time out of a freshy-placed starter, then drag as far as I want afterwards.
Alright, thank you very much. :)
(lol, I have a hard time pretending like a noob when I am a veteran modder of other games like Total War :P)
I posted this in another thread, but this may be the correct place...
Will you guys be releasing a puzzle piece for a Maxis highway --> 6 lane avenue transition? (2 puzzle pieces: 1 for elevated and 1 for ground)
This would be extremely useful for my cities and currently it looks funny when having to transition from a Maxis highway to 4 lane avenue to 6 lane avenue (creates a bottleneck).
Should be an easy piece to design/code. :)
Actually, no. The modelling is the hard part, not to mention that AVE-6 is a whole tile wider than MHWY. Unless of course you're talking about to RD-6 which probably has an equal chance of happening.
Quote from: FireSka on December 13, 2012, 08:03:11 AM
I posted this in another thread, but this may be the correct place...
Yes, you're in the right place. No, your request is not likely to be fulfilled.
I'll say it again: MHWs are notorious for being underscale and difficult to work with, so such a piece has a low chance of being made unless someone were daring enough to make the necessary models. Even so, there's still work to be done with what's currently being developed: RHW.
This is not a request for NAM 31 and this could go in the TuLEP's thread. Next NAM (the NWM focused one) will there be a full suite of turning lane pieces for RD-4, RD-6, ARD-3 and the new networks? Also can a AVE-6/TLA-7 Turning lane middle piece get added?
Quote from: Durfsurn on December 13, 2012, 04:52:08 PM
This is not a request for NAM 31 and this could go in the TuLEP's thread.
There are already a few TuLEPs for some of the NWM networks already:
- TLA-7/AVE-6 have an Type A TuLEP that you can plop directly in the median. This is also used for the TLA-9/AVE-8, because of how modular the triple-tile networks are.
- There are AVE-6/TLA-7 TuLEP intersection pieces that can cross with Road and AVE already, but not for AVE-6xAVE-6.
- Some of the Road TuLEPs can be used with the ARD-3.
Additionally, you can couple the RD-4 to AVE-4 transition with the AVE-4 TuLEPs so that you can use the AVE-4 TuLEPs for the RD-4. If you look using Google Maps, there are real-life cases of such.
For those who don't know, I am planning on sneaking at least a couple "stocking stuffers"* for the NWM for NAM 31. If nothing else, the TuLEP-style AVE-6/AVE-6 intersections will make it into the next release. I haven't made them yet (still focused on P57 base RUL2 stuff), so no pics, but they won't take too much effort.
-Alex
*The use of the term "stocking stuffer" does not indicate a possible release date. You seriously think I'd be that obvious? $%#Ninj2
Hmmm... I wonder what kind of surprises we might get. The AVE-6 TULEP idea has potential. :)
Quote from: Tarkus on December 13, 2012, 05:18:52 PM
The use of the term "stocking stuffer" does not indicate a possible release date.
For some reason, that made me think of this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5066%2F5652987697_573493abbb_z.jpg&hash=f25379f123cf2b1ad298602cbe4e5866ebe12991)
Quote from: jdenm8 on December 13, 2012, 08:11:59 AM
Actually, no. The modelling is the hard part, not to mention that AVE-6 is a whole tile wider than MHWY. Unless of course you're talking about to RD-6 which probably has an equal chance of happening.
I'm talking about the 2 tile piece with 6 lanes, which I thought was a 6 lane avenue with no median. I realize the MHWs are "underscaled", but I think they are more practical for large cities than taking up huge amounts of space for RHWs. We have pretty much any other tile we need to create great MHWs so I don't think requesting a link between the NWM piece, which is 3 lanes, and the MHW, which is also 3 lanes is too much to ask.
Otherwise I'd be happier with RHWs that don't take up so much space. For example, an exit ramp that is 1 tile wide and the ability to merge it with frontage roads.
The more you think about it, RHW is actually the realistic size for intersections these days, MHW in my opinion is more for the 1950s-60s. An exit ramp being 1 tile wide would be extremely difficult, plus the fact that RHW is not built in the game, so it wouldn't be stable. You can defiantly ask Tarkus or GDO29Anagram about it, but their answer might be very similar to mine. Look at the lane width, the MHW is way skinnier.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcRJPyVi3nNn1NK_Qhs3GIjPHnf4DGGaCsk_tq0ClWB-g7oNvCccLag2m_jJVQ&hash=18a1c9ad29167219df38208d882d250ec2332c85) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg827.imageshack.us%2Fimg827%2F2367%2Fnewcityjan8001355511932.jpg&hash=fe94e2038a7dafdffc67636dee74d27842734541)
Look at the size of the house and compare it to the interchange. It's huge.
P.S, you should say things about RHW in the RHW section, this is the NWM section.
Quote from: FireSka on December 14, 2012, 10:00:21 AM
Quote from: jdenm8 on December 13, 2012, 08:11:59 AM
Actually, no. The modelling is the hard part, not to mention that AVE-6 is a whole tile wider than MHWY. Unless of course you're talking about to RD-6 which probably has an equal chance of happening.
I'm talking about the 2 tile piece with 6 lanes, which I thought was a 6 lane avenue with no median. I realize the MHWs are "underscaled", but I think they are more practical for large cities than taking up huge amounts of space for RHWs. We have pretty much any other tile we need to create great MHWs so I don't think requesting a link between the NWM piece, which is 3 lanes, and the MHW, which is also 3 lanes is too much to ask.
Otherwise I'd be happier with RHWs that don't take up so much space. For example, an exit ramp that is 1 tile wide and the ability to merge it with frontage roads.
Maybe you could help out Ivo_su (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=11023.msg393835#msg393835) with creating such a piece?
Cheers
Willy
Tarkus explained to me the same thing or somthing similar to sizes some time ago... the problem is, that not every road or highway in the world are standard sized... for example, roads in America are bigger than the ones in Europe (some parts of Europe). At the same time... when you look at Lower Manhattan, the "highway" (FDR DR) has 6 lanes, yet its only 22 meters wide. When you come to scaling in Simcity, you will realize that 1 tile is equal to 16 meters. Now, if you do that even the Maxis Highway is actually overscaled. What happens to roads is that the sidewalk is included in the width, that's why it sometimes looks like they are bigger than they really are... But, again, the team's standarization is what makes this possible (obviously because of the limitations the game has)... So again, even though interchanges look different, sizes are different... remember, in order to make things work in SC4, standarization has to show... ;D
Actually, I'm ready and textures and file with the path, but I have no ID to go to RULs. As I have no idea how to put in two pieces so late starter.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg200.imageshack.us%2Fimg200%2F7259%2Fmhwmave6.png&hash=d294d86382657660926521d491b6aa2ba496dfb3)
Quote from: ivo_su on December 14, 2012, 12:32:08 PM
Actually, I'm ready and textures and file with the path, but I have no ID to go to RULs. As I have no idea how to put in two pieces so late starter.
That's actually not how MHWs work. You still need models; Textures aren't even important, since we could just reuse the same MHW textures over and over again, and wealthification on an MHW is completely irrelevant. What's most important are the models that you "wrap" the textures on to. If you don't have those, you can't have a transition.
MHWs are 3D, and even more so, their paths are slightly elevated above the ground. You need a smooth transition from a 2D plane to a 3D polygon.
Take into account how severely underscale MHWs are, you need to elongate your transition to make the transition look smooth. So you need to make a model that spans four tiles, and that it has to taper from six standard-width lanes to the width of about four lanes. You also need to taper down the concrete side walls, as well, or make them modelled off of the AVE-MHW models. In the end, if you're gonna want the piece to be a 2x2, you need to "cut" the model into four pieces, one for each tile.
Since I have no experience in modelling but I know what's in store, this is what you have to do to even make an RD-6 to MHW transition the right way.
Plus, you'd need to reserve an IID, and need to create the necessary RUL-0 or RUL-1/RUL-2 code for it. If you're going for a RUL-0 approach (a puzzle piece), then you'd need to start reading Maarten's tutorial for making puzzle pieces.
Quote from: cmdp123789 on December 14, 2012, 12:29:52 PM
So again, even though interchanges look different, sizes are different... remember, in order to make things work in SC4, standarization has to show...
It's not just sidewalks, it's also the wealthification, and in the case of RD-4 and AVE-6, this is why they have the bike lanes. Actually, that is precisely why I don't see the "bike lanes" as bike lanes; They're put there so that the RD-4 and AVE-6 take up more space.
There's an old prototype (and I had also developed my own textures of this) of an RD-4 that did not have the bike lanes attached, and the space between the sidewalk and the road was monstrous.
Also, take this into account: The position of the sidewalks are strange as well (or at least I think they're strange): They're on the edge of the tile, instead of against the curb of the road. Once again, there are places where both cases exist (sidewalks displaced from the road, sidewalks abutting the curb), so the standard for SC4 is to use both: Sidewalks against the tile's edge for orthogonal textures, and sidewalks against the curb for diagonal textures. (And don't get me started on how inconsistent the sidewalk width is...)
Quote from: FireSka on December 14, 2012, 10:00:21 AM
We have pretty much any other tile we need to create great MHWs so I don't think requesting a link between the NWM piece, which is 3 lanes, and the MHW, which is also 3 lanes is too much to ask.
Actually, it's the fact that MHW models are hard to work with that also makes MHWs difficult to work with. This is precisely why there has never been a new MHW interchange piece for years, because it takes a long time to even model the piece in the first place, which is the kind of time that would be better devoted towards making modularised interchange pieces, not single-use puzzle pieces.
Anything pertaining with MHWs, unless it's Project Symphony, is not likely to be fulfilled due to the following reasons: Underscaled dimensions and hard-to-work-with models.
Quote from: metarvo on December 13, 2012, 06:33:12 PM
For some reason, that made me think of this:
Heh . . . Easter stockings--the NAM Team could use some of those. :D
Quote from: FireSka on December 14, 2012, 10:00:21 AM
I'm talking about the 2 tile piece with 6 lanes, which I thought was a 6 lane avenue with no median.
The actual name "6-lane Avenue" or AVE-6, officially refers to the 3-tile-wide network, but many users not up on NAM terminology tend to use that term to refer to the 2-tile-wide one (
MAVE-6), like you have, and it confuses us developers. So the 2-tile-wide one will be referred to as a "6-lane Road" (RD-6) going forward, dropping any reference to the term "Avenue", to avoid that confusion. Actual AVE-6-to-MHW is not planned. RD-6 (former MAVE-6) to MHW makes a bit more sense. But again, it's the models. Standard MHW models are a pain to make.
Quote from: FireSka on December 14, 2012, 10:00:21 AM
Otherwise I'd be happier with RHWs that don't take up so much space. For example, an exit ramp that is 1 tile wide and the ability to merge it with frontage roads.
Better frontage road support has been on the list a long time . . . but the implementation is still something we haven't figured out.
Quote from: cmdp123789 on December 14, 2012, 12:29:52 PM
At the same time... when you look at Lower Manhattan, the "highway" (FDR DR) has 6 lanes, yet its only 22 meters wide. When you come to scaling in Simcity, you will realize that 1 tile is equal to 16 meters. Now, if you do that even the Maxis Highway is actually overscaled.
I checked that road out just now in Google Maps (near 34th St), and compared. (Note: 50ft. is generally accepted as the US/Imperial equivalent of 1 SC4 tile.)
The actual roadbed on the MHW lies between the coordinates Z coordinates -2.353455 and 7.196106, corresponding to meters. This works out to just a tad under 9.55m (31.32ft.), or 3.183m per lane (10.44ft.). If you include the barriers in that figure, the overall width (between -2.813782 and 8) works out to about 10.81m, or 21.62m for the full width. So FDR Drive is actually a negligible amount wider than an MHW--darn near an exact match. It's also pretty much the most substandard freeway in the US, with a 40mph speed limit (65km/h), and a ban on vehicles heavier than 8,000 lbs, meaning no buses or trucks.
A carefully worked-out graphical demonstration (which also measures out 34th St, an RD-6, including its sidewalk):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fck4Iy.jpg&hash=e7630f3851c7cd9bfb4b7af4ffc4e6a330ba979f)
And of course, it is underscaled with respect to the rest of SC4's roads--that's the main problem.
-Alex
If you're in a traffic jam there, you can read the newspaper of the guy next to you. I'd be scared on those roads. Then again, I'm used to having the road (rails) to myself all the time.
I thought the whole scale problem was actually caused by the overscaled automata.
Cheers
Willy
Quote from: Swordmaster on December 14, 2012, 04:17:45 PM
I thought the whole scale problem was actually caused by the overscaled automata.
That has always really bothered me. The cars on the road are so much bigger than the ones in driveways and parking lots. I think that if you use the game's scale though, the cars are actually closer to correctly sized, and it's just everything else that's underscaled.
Then there's the matter of the 10-foot-tall pedestrians.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on December 14, 2012, 04:00:29 PM
Heh . . . Easter stockings--the NAM Team could use some of those.
Something tells me we forgot to celebrate Easterween... &mmm
Quote from: Tarkus on December 14, 2012, 04:00:29 PM
(Note: 50ft. is generally accepted as the US/Imperial equivalent of 1 SC4 tile.)
I'm not one of those persons. (I use 52 feet instead. It's just me being more exact.)
Almost exactly 52 and a half feet. But I hope you guys never use that rule over long distances. You'll be off by a foot for every 153 tiles. :D
And wouldn't fixing the giant pedestrian/automata problem be as simple as making an automata mod? (Not that I'm saying that's easy in itself.) Are the pedestrians modifiable or exe controlled?
Quote from: Indiana Joe on December 14, 2012, 06:36:06 PM
And wouldn't fixing the giant pedestrian/automata problem be as simple as making an automata mod? (Not that I'm saying that's easy in itself.) Are the pedestrians modifiable or exe controlled?
Most of the pedestrians are automata just like the vehicles. They're S3D models that, if I recall correctly, are stored in SimCity_1.dat. If one wanted to correct them, I believe it'd mostly be a matter of just running them through SC4 Model Tweaker to scale them down. There are some other pedestrian-related crowd props that are ATC/AVP based, however, which are a different story.
I believe the reason why the pedestrians are Goliath-sized has to do with visibility--Maxis wanted players to be able to see them better, and upscaled them for that purpose. There's also the matter that vertical scaling in the game appears squashed by about 77% due to the trimetric orthographic projection, which many BATers compensate for by upscaling the height of buildings and props by a factor of 1.3, though this works out to the pedestrians being about 7'8" without this scaling compensation.
-Alex
Sadly, I'm fairly certain that almost all of the pedestrian automata animations are of the ATC/AVP variety. Those that are not are generally associated with the effects directory, such as crime and police/fire animations as well as fauna.
Hey people! I downloaded a bunch of plugins but experience a permanent CTD, so i reinstall all, and all working fine, but NWM!
Some of intersectons just dont work with traffic (
Heres screenie
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5185/intersa.png
How i can cure this?
i unpaused it of course
Re-run the NWM installer with the LHD plugin selected.
I was wondering, would it be possible to have OWR-1 connect to the road/owr/street roundabouts?
Quote from: kj3400 on December 18, 2012, 11:49:16 AM
I was wondering, would be possible to have OWR-1 connect to the road/owr/street roundabouts?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg268%2F763%2Fcapturenwmras.jpg&hash=b9443140b5a7dd67c435598199168c50b1b4c37d)
Which would now be a matter of not only rewriting the necessary code, but also a matter of redoing everything I've done for this (Textures, paths, and all). (The consequences of overworking my only computer...)
Plus, I'd rather wait to get this integrated for NAM 32; That's when the NWM gets the P56/51/5E treatment.
Looks promising. I can wait :P
The OWR-1 is not ok like that. We already have a MIS entrance/exit with roundabout, which is much better, as it is a bit of oriented to the flow of traffic on it. Another thing I don't see as good is the TLA-3. You just can't have the center lane connected to the roundabout. It should be blocked off by the median form AVE-2. Usually in reallife rdbt's have medians between the entrance/exit. It makes them safer for oncoming crashes a safe zone for peds crossing the roads, and also gives space for the curve radius needed.
Two options to resolve the TLA-3, would be a T21 triangular median, alternatively, there should be enough room there for a small pointed hatch out. I want to say Maarten's RxRing mod, had a lane restricting median, with the usual yellow warning sign in the middle of the TLA-3, if that was done in this situation, it would match up.
Quote from: strucka on December 22, 2012, 06:03:48 AM
The OWR-1 is not ok like that. We already have a MIS entrance/exit with roundabout, which is much better, as it is a bit of oriented to the flow of traffic on it. Another thing I don't see as good is the TLA-3. You just can't have the center lane connected to the roundabout. It should be blocked off by the median form AVE-2. Usually in reallife rdbt's have medians between the entrance/exit. It makes them safer for oncoming crashes a safe zone for peds crossing the roads, and also gives space for the curve radius needed.
We're kind of stuck with the way that texture is on the OWR 1, simply because we cannot know which way the OWR1 is going.
Could you fix this by having a puzzle piece for each direction? I don't recommend doing this though as it just adds more pieces and confusion.
Quote from: jdenm8 on December 23, 2012, 06:32:56 AM
We're kind of stuck with the way that texture is on the OWR 1, simply because we cannot know which way the OWR1 is going.
What do you mean? Of course you know which way it's going, you have to pull it in the way it's oriented. The same thing as with the MIS intersection. Try it, you'll see.
I know perfectly well about the MIS intersection with the roundabout.
The RHW overrides and OWR work fundamentally differently. With the RHW overrides, we know exactly which way traffic flows because the way the network tile is oriented is directly related to which way the traffic flows. Traffic will always flow in one way because the paths only go one way. The yellow line is always on the inside.
OWR is different in that the direction of the active paths and the orientation of the network tile is disconnected. Traffic can be flowing in at least two directions at one time on the one unique network tile. Instead of the paths in the path file only going in one direction, the game takes path files with paths going in both possible directions, then uses EXE-locked trickery to disable one set according to their Exit and Entry winds. Long story short, at the RUL level, there is literally no way to know which direction traffic is flowing on OWR (This also makes T21s for OWR work incorrectly at intersections and why traffic lights don't work), whereas there is on One-Way RHWs.
The puzzle piece approach is feasible in theory, however the puzzle piece, when placed, may break the INRUL override which forms the roundabout in the first place.
I'm a little bit down from what had nearly happened to me last weekend, but I wanna pitch in on the matter on connecting NWMs to the RAs:
- TLA-3: An different "terminus" would entail a texture override, and those vary by region. I'm not one for providing differing textures for the same transit tile, and neither is the rest of the NAM Team. What's more important is that something works; The fine-tuning usually comes later* and if it's still undesirable to someone, there's nothing stopping them from making a third-party mod. The same goes for T21s. (PS, TLA-5's terminating at an RD-2 in a T-crossing share a similar conundrum.)
* - I had made these textures to be "neutral", because I didn't know what to put at the time. I didn't want it to be directionally biased, either.
- OWR-1: The MIS is an asymmetrical single-direction network, which is why it can have the turn-in hook, but due to the nature of OWRs in general, the OWR is a symmetrical bidirectional network. It's just that the OWR's tidal flow proprerty "deactivates" half of the paths, but any sort of transit tile for OWR HAS to be made bidirectional or else it won't work.
- Puzzle pieces for the above: First, do we really wanna go down the rabbit hole? Second, puzzle pieces break overrides. Not a viable option.
HI, How can I end a AVE-6 intersecting it with a AVE-4 ?
I can't found any pieces for that:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg706.imageshack.us%2Fimg706%2F3050%2Fave6.jpg&hash=070a052fedcb4da826fe55d25cd5e7146b0c921b)
Thanks for any help, sorry my english.
Just drag both ends into the AVE 4 or 6. That's it.
Tell me if that's not the case.
-sunv123
I don't know why it doesn't work. The intersection is incomplete.
like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg690.imageshack.us%2Fimg690%2F7333%2Fave64.jpg&hash=022d71f065176fba76dfdfcfb88073d0138877d4)
Quote from: lfinalDJ on December 30, 2012, 01:37:27 PM
I don't know why it doesn't work. The intersection is incomplete.
like this:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg690.imageshack.us%2Fimg690%2F7333%2Fave64.jpg&hash=022d71f065176fba76dfdfcfb88073d0138877d4)
I have always had to go one more square past the terminus, in other words, draw through the Ave and get a full 4 way intersection.
First of all, 3 lanes going into 2 lanes is absurd. That's one of the reasons why it is not implemented in NWM.
-sunv123
Quote from: mike3775 on December 30, 2012, 01:41:42 PM
I have always had to go one more square past the terminus, in other words, draw through the Ave and get a full 4 way intersection.
Yes, but it means i can't finish the AVE 6 in this intersection, if I want to zone.
Do I have to continue ? Does i have to use the transition piece AVE 6 to AVE 4 to terminus a AVE 6?
Thanks.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg838.imageshack.us%2Fimg838%2F1926%2Favedw.jpg&hash=c562c568a061325a41612dd74c116c892206c19a)
Quote from: sunv123 on December 30, 2012, 01:47:28 PM
First of all, 3 lanes going into 2 lanes is absurd. That's one of the reasons why it is not implemented in NWM.
-sunv123
Why? There is a puzzle piece to terminus a AVE 4 in this intersection, but there is none to terminus the AVE 6.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg688.imageshack.us%2Fimg688%2F5550%2Fave4y.jpg&hash=90004603b1548ac424ffe7eced63afa013d31207)
You can provisionally use the TULEP four-way intersection until a T piece gets made.
Cheers
Willy
Quote from: Swordmaster on December 30, 2012, 02:30:30 PM
You can provisionally use the TULEP four-way intersection until a T piece gets made.
Cheers
Willy
Thanks I will do that for now, I hope it can't cause any conflict.
Regards.
Quote from: lfinalDJ on December 30, 2012, 02:36:18 PM
Quote from: Swordmaster on December 30, 2012, 02:30:30 PM
You can provisionally use the TULEP four-way intersection until a T piece gets made.
Cheers
Willy
Thanks I will do that for now, I hope it can't cause any conflict.
Regards.
Its never conflicted with me, I even have zoning that grows on it that way
Three lanes ending into four lanes (Avenue has two lanes for each direction, leaving a total of four possible exits) is perfectly feasible, as is four ending at four.
Hi, I have found a provisionally solution.
It work if i build a TLA 5 instead of a AVE 4.
But I can't use any TULEP, if i do that, some part of the intersection disappear. For now it's ok.
Thank.
There is a pic :
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg90.imageshack.us%2Fimg90%2F8933%2Fave6tla.jpg&hash=fd639ad345d65e47d2c688b15efb4e063a5d7710)
Quote from: lfinalDJ on December 31, 2012, 04:47:48 AM
Hi, I have found a provisionally solution.
It work if i build a TLA 5 instead of a AVE 4.
But I can't use any TULEP, if i do that, some part of the intersection disappear. For now it's ok.
It's good to know!! :thumbsup:
And there is plenty of times in real life, I have seen roads built this way, with no arrow markings entirely, despite multi-lane roads ending at a T. It is just assumed people will know what to do, but it does happen. I don't see this getting changed anytime soon, so that is how it will have to be, but more importantly you got that there.
I also have that problem. My workaround is to convert the avenue to a RD-4 (MAVE-4) and reconvert it to an avenue.
To the NAM Team: Will there be an attachment fix for that intersection?
No, there won't be an attachment fix because it requires a RUL2 fix. The Controller File is too large to fit in the Attachment system (Weighs in at about 2MB when compressed) and we don't have enough fixes to warrant a new hotfix.
Quote from: lfinalDJ on December 30, 2012, 01:59:11 PM
Why? There is a puzzle piece to terminus a AVE 4 in this intersection, but there is none to terminus the AVE 6.
That piece was, from memory, in the NWM Alpha builds, but nobody had made working paths for it by Feature Freeze, so it was left out. Quite a few of the NWM TuLEPs intersections went that way.
Quote from: AngryBirdsFan436 on January 04, 2013, 10:27:15 PM
To the NAM Team: Will there be an attachment fix for that intersection?
Should also note that a fix like that wouldn't be that high a priority for NAM 31, when P57 is already a priority. Best bet is to wait for NAM 32, which is when NWM gets its much-needed revamp.
Will there be a TuLEP intersection piece for AVE-6XAVE-6/TLA-7XTLA-7?
Another really necessery thing are the overpasses for NWM. Though the elevated NWM's aren't that urgent, all the existing networks over NWM are absolutely a big problem at the moment. At least the rail would be really great to have. You don't usually get a very frequent rail line running over a 6 lane avenue, or even worse a 5 lane one way road.
Quote from: AngryBirdsFan436 on January 11, 2013, 08:09:16 AM
Will there be a TuLEP intersection piece for AVE-6XAVE-6/TLA-7XTLA-7?
Yes.
Quote from: strucka on January 11, 2013, 10:27:16 AM
Another really necessery thing are the overpasses for NWM. Though the elevated NWM's aren't that urgent, all the existing networks over NWM are absolutely a big problem at the moment. At least the rail would be really great to have. You don't usually get a very frequent rail line running over a 6 lane avenue, or even worse a 5 lane one way road.
The issue right now, however, is the fact that the elevated viaducts for Road, OWR, Avenue, and Heavy Rail are planned to be draggable by NAM 32, and the NWM will also be getting substantial upgrades then. I agree that it'd be very useful to have that functionality, but with how development is being phased, it would be awkward at best to make puzzle pieces for those situations now.
-Alex
Since now that dragable is like the new standard with RHW and such, it would be a little awkward to see puzzles pieces when most others are dragable.
Great work on that, who ever thought that we would soon go on to do that? It was in our dreams. :D
You could probably use RHW-2 or 4 as a placeholder in the meantime, but you'd need an extra tile for the stub
You know guys that I have an idea for "renaming" the NWM while retaining its acronym: Network Width Mod. It's because not all networks are widening. Ex: AVE-2, RD-4 and OWR-1. Is it a good idea to "rename" the NWM? I got that idea because not all networks are widening.
Quote from: AngryBirdsFan436 on January 25, 2013, 03:31:16 AM
You know guys that I have an idea for "renaming" the NWM while retaining its acronym: Network Width Mod. It's because not all networks are widening.
Not really fitting, because many of these networks are widened not by the number of lanes, but by how much space each network takes up. AVE-2, TLA-3, ARD-3, and NRD-4 take up about 50% more asphalt space than the standard RD-2. You need to take into account that there's more than the tile footprints that these networks take up, it's also how much of the tile is asphalt or not.
Plus, the name "Network Widening Mod" has been around for years.
Besides, I've been campaigning for the OWR-1 to be a separate item for what I've been calling the Network Narrowing Mod. (Not.)
Totally unrelated and sorry if this is the wrong board:
I'm using the pic quoted below as an example for my question...
...where/how do you get the median props/textures that are similar to maxis AVEs...the foliage lights and such.
Everywhere I look on this forum, I see nice plants and lights in NWM AVEs.
When I place a AVE-6 using NWM, I just see grass.
Same goes for ave-2, except the ave 2 replaces the bright green with a drab green grass.
I have a texture mod, but this behavior has existing prior to that.
I've looked at dependencies and checked forums...I'm stumped.
Thx!
Quote from: lfinalDJ on December 31, 2012, 04:47:48 AM
Hi, I have found a provisionally solution.
It work if i build a TLA 5 instead of a AVE 4.
But I can't use any TULEP, if i do that, some part of the intersection disappear. For now it's ok.
Thank.
There is a pic :
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg90.imageshack.us%2Fimg90%2F8933%2Fave6tla.jpg&hash=fd639ad345d65e47d2c688b15efb4e063a5d7710)
Planters and lightposts for the NWM are added with additional mods, for example (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/26790-maxis-styled-ave-6-median-pack/). There're plenty of others too, so it might be wortwhile to do a little searching.
Good link, thanks. That mod seems to only allow one wealth at a time? Maybe I'm reading it wrong....
I did try a search using your key words, on both LEX and STEX and the only relevant link I found was the one you referenced (and one other 'tree beta' for ave-2).
Do you have any other links to share?
Thanks again!
Sure (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/24822-median-for-ave-2/l), here (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/27444-street-trees-for-nwm-owr-1/) you (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/26844-tree-mod-for-nmave-4/) go (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/26922-nwm-peg-ut-ave-2-mod/). Wait (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/26842-nwm-ave-2-t21-tree-lined-road/), there's (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/25797-street-side-mod-for-mave-4/) more (http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/25796-mave-4-mave-6-no-grass/)!
Okay I cheated, the last one actually is a texture mod but I couldn't think of just one sentence this time a day, coffee please! :D
Yes, I found those too. I was really looking for the larger ave (ave 6 I think) that is essentially the NWM version of maxis aves.
Which you provided in the original reply, thanks. I imagine there are others for the 6 and I just need to continue the search.
Thanks for your time.
I hope a tree side mod will be made for the OWR-4. It's sidewalks are so wide and empty.
Quote from: sancho_chase on February 02, 2013, 11:28:08 PM
Yes, I found those too. I was really looking for the larger ave (ave 6 I think) that is essentially the NWM version of maxis aves.
Which you provided in the original reply, thanks. I imagine there are others for the 6 and I just need to continue the search.
Thanks for your time.
From simcitychina:
http://www.simcity.cn/thread-108982-1-1.html
http://www.simcity.cn/viewthread.php?tid=83513&extra=page%3D1%26amp%3Bfilter%3Dtype%26amp%3Btypeid%3D11
Wow, I'd seen hints of this, but never any links; cool.
Check out this well known haljackey youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YlR2nSB-ZU&feature=youtu.be
He even mentions the mod, but doesn't say which one. I don't think it's this simcitychina mod....
Quote from: sancho_chase on February 03, 2013, 01:49:00 PM
Check out this well known haljackey youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YlR2nSB-ZU&feature=youtu.be
He even mentions the mod, but doesn't say which one. I don't think it's this simcitychina mod....
Are you referring to the sandstone TuLEP mod? Grab em right here: http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/26617-sandstone-texture-mod-for-network-addon-mod-nam/
Ave-6 median: http://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/26790-maxis-styled-ave-6-median-pack/
Haljackey - The man of the hour.
That's what I was looking for and what vortext provided the link for.
When I first read the requirements they didn't make sense; now I get it. I really just wanted to know what you were using in the you tube video.
One thing that still eludes me is the implication of this statement from the Maxis-Styled AVE-6 Median Pack read me:
Since the AVE-6's median is locked in the middle, it won't be able to touch any zones, and therefore, any sort of wealth- or zone-dependent T21 won't work.
I'm new to this T21 concept - what is a wealth or zone dependent T21?
T21 are the type of files used to get props on transit networks. Basically they're 1x1 lots assigned to a specific network tile, e.g. straight, corner, 4way, etc.
In normal circumstances, the wealth and zone densities of the surrounding lots determine which T21 shows. For instance, in vanilla SC low wealth residential zones shows wooden lightpoles while highwealth commercial zones show modern, white lightposts. However, since the median tile in AVE6 doesn't touch any zones, wealth and zone density don't have any influence on them.
If interested, here's (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7049.0)more info.
Quote from: vortext on February 04, 2013, 08:56:44 AM
T21 are the type of files used to get props on transit networks. Basically they're 1x1 lots assigned to a specific network tile, e.g. straight, corner, 4way, etc.
In normal circumstances, the wealth and zone densities of the surrounding lots determine which T21 shows. For instance, in vanilla SC low wealth residential zones shows wooden lightpoles while highwealth commercial zones show modern, white lightposts. However, since the medium tile in AVE6 doesn't touch any zones, wealth and zone density don't have any influence on them.
If interested, here's (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=7049.0)more info.
Excellent description.
This website is great - I've been using it to customize simcity for about 2 years and this is the 1st time I've needed to ask a specific question.
Thanks again. :thumbsup:
I know this is a bit off-topic for the thread, but it's continuing the current discussion. I've always wondered if the wealthification textures can be changed to be completely transparent? (Would be very useful for RHW)
No, it can't. The wealthification is applied to hide sidewalks, something that's not acceptable when making diagonals or motorways.
But couldn't you make sidewalk textures transparent as well?
The issue is that if you did that, all sidewalks for all networks would become transparent. The only way of which I'm aware to completely turn off sidewalks would be to make the affected networks be 100% model-based.
-Alex
Quote from: Indiana Joe on February 04, 2013, 01:44:02 PM
I know this is a bit off-topic for the thread, but it's continuing the current discussion. I've always wondered if the wealthification textures can be changed to be completely transparent? (Would be very useful for RHW)
A note on wealthificaiton, wealth grass, zoning, and sidewalks: Both the grass and the sidewalk textures are tied together, but if you look at a texture, all you see is the grass that lines the sides and the transparent areas where the sidewalk shows through.
If you place any type of zoning along a network that has wealthification, sidewalks will appear on the network. If that network has assigned wealth grass textures, those will also show.
Wealthification is governed by 4 or 7 textures, and they are ordered by wealth and density level:
0x######0# - Unzoned. If there are no other wealth textures, this texture will be used throughout every wealth and density level. This is why if you try to place zones along a diagonal RHW-6C or a diagonal AVE-6, you will get large sidewalks. This is not an intentional design feature; it's because we didn't assign any wealth textures.
0x######1#, 0x######2#, and 0x######3# - These are the low-density wealth textures, one for each wealth level, low, medium, and high.
0x######4#, 0x######5#, and 0x######6# - These are the high-density wealth textures. These are the same as the low-density wealth grass textures. Most networks don't use this, but the RHW is the only network that does. As mentioned already, this is to hide away the sidewalks that appear, especially when you only have an 0x######0# texture present.
There's also one for -##7#, which is used for agricultural zoning, but that's almost never used.
The difference between each and every texture, from -##0# to -##6# is the presence of grass that lines the sides of the road deck. Each texture will have the same road deck.
Because of the transparent areas for the sidewalks and the "baked-in" nature of the grass, it's incredibly easy to make sidewalk mods, but incredibly hard to create zero-grass mods. Sidewalks are governed by just three textures: Low-wealth, medium-wealth, and high-wealth, whereas wealthification (wealth grass) is governed by the network textures themselves, and there are THOUSANDS of them.
It's also for this reason that de-wealthifying an entire network is insanely hard. Model-based networks, such as Elevated Rail, Monorail, and MHWs, don't have any wealthification assigned to the networks, because there was never any wealth grass textures to assign for them. Other networks, like elevated RHWs (soon to be either L1, L2, L3, or L4, depending on what we're talking about, though they're all effectively identical for this case) are also model-based because they, too, have no assigned wealth textures. You can theoretically assign wealth textures to such a network (and it has been done with several of the NWM networks, TLA-3, AVE-2, ARD-3, NRD-4, and OWR-3), but it'll experience some rather funny properties which are too subtle to notice at first.
Back to the original question: How do you de-wealthify the entirety of the RHW without affecting everything else? Easy:
1. Replace all of the sidewalk textures with blank textures.
2. Replace all 4000 RHW textures with de-grassified versions.
3. Replace the textures of EVERY network (AVE, RD, OWR, Street, SAM-1, SAM-2, SAM-3, SAM-4, SAM-5, SAM-7, SAM-8, SAM-9, TLA-3, AVE-2, ARD-3, OWR-1, OWR-3, NRD-4, TLA-5, OWR-4, OWR-5, RD-4, RD-6, TLA-7, AVE-6) with textures that have sidewalks built in.
4. (Optional) Create compatibility versions of the 20+ networks you modified to work with other sidewalk mods.
In other words, you'd probably need to change out about 70000 to 100000 textures in total, and that's including mipmaps and wealth levels.
Or the easier but still excruciatingly tedious method of converting the RHWs to model-based networks:
1. Create models for each and every RHW network tile.
2. Create new path files for each RHW network tile.
3. Create exemplar files for each RHW network tile.
4. Uproot the entire file structure of the RHW so that there are no wealthified textures whatsoever.
There also exists a fundamental problem called user preference: Some people like the wealthification, and in many cases, it's absolutely necessary. You'd end up upsetting those who want wealthification.
Plus, it's actually quite easier to create a texture-based network tile than to create a model-based network tile; Aside from the IIDs, a texture-based network tile only needs textures and paths, whereas a model-based network tile would need textures, paths (and these would actually need a different TGI than that of texture-based network tiles, making pathfixing harder for the untrained wannabee transit modder), models (and you would have to assign the texture manually if you didn't have a program to do it for you), and an exemplar to tell the game what the tile is.
I actually might look into editing the textures and removing the grass and sidewalks. I'd only do it for my most commonly used textures: the orthogonal and diagonal tiles of MIS, RHW-2, RHW-4, and maybe 6-S for all wealths. That would come out to what, several dozen to a few hundred textures?
This would be something I do myself. The problem I have is that the current grass that shows up hardly blends with anything (that I use anyway).
Quote from: Tarkus on February 04, 2013, 05:02:35 PM
The issue is that if you did that, all sidewalks for all networks would become transparent. The only way of which I'm aware to completely turn off sidewalks would be to make the affected networks be 100% model-based.
As far as I know, whether this will work is also a characteristic of the network type. For example, this works for Avenues, but not for Roads.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on February 04, 2013, 06:26:03 PM
Back to the original question: How do you de-wealthify the entirety of the RHW without affecting everything else? Easy:
1. Replace all of the sidewalk textures with blank textures.
2. Replace all 4000 RHW textures with de-grassified versions.
3. Replace the textures of EVERY network (AVE, RD, OWR, Street, SAM-1, SAM-2, SAM-3, SAM-4, SAM-5, SAM-7, SAM-8, SAM-9, TLA-3, AVE-2, ARD-3, OWR-1, OWR-3, NRD-4, TLA-5, OWR-4, OWR-5, RD-4, RD-6, TLA-7, AVE-6) with textures that have sidewalks built in.
4. (Optional) Create compatibility versions of the 20+ networks you modified to work with other sidewalk mods.
I think I could pretty much automate this process. I even had been contemplating of doing so as again and again users ask for this, like I have seen Casper (
CasperVg) complaining about the rail's dirt in his videos, and
Gobias about the wealth's grass that do not match his terrain mods.
Quote
Or the easier but still excruciatingly tedious method of converting the RHWs to model-based networks:
1. Create models for each and every RHW network tile.
2. Create new path files for each RHW network tile.
3. Create exemplar files for each RHW network tile.
4. Uproot the entire file structure of the RHW so that there are no wealthified textures whatsoever.
That would not be too difficult, either. Your points on the paths are insignificant, though.
As for the user preference, that is why re-texturing mods come with several options. ;)
Problem is that there are a very, very few members that even do re-texturing...
Quote from: MandelSoft on February 05, 2013, 12:36:39 AM
Problem is that there are a very, very few members that even do re-texturing...
Editing textures to remove wealthified grass is far easier than making new ones. It's a daunting amount of very tedious work, but it's not very brain-stretching work.
That said:
memo, if you want a hand making this (transparent grass textures) a viable option, I'd be glad to help.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on February 04, 2013, 06:26:03 PM
Sidewalks are governed by just three textures: Low-wealth, medium-wealth, and high-wealth
There're actually four sidewalk textures. You forgot rural sidewalk which is also used underneath heavy rail, regardless of wealth and zones
(if memory serves me right). EDIT: totally unrelated but this my 1111th post!! ?=mad)=
Maarten, I know very well which pain it is to edit or create FSH textures. That is why I highly appreciate the work of the few texture artists – I would not even dare to start a re-texturing.
Patrick, thanks for offering help. Maybe, I initiate such a project after March 1st and take you up on it. At least, there seems to be interest in such a mod. Though, as I said I would automate this tedious work using a little (or not so little) batch processing, since the mountains of textures would be impossible to tackle, otherwise. ;)
As promised, there will be a couple little NWM additions this go around . . .
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FA8a9kYj.jpg&hash=9c6488515f5f828e65ae6340597f978370a5d932)
-Alex
Thank-you Tarkus... makes the anticipation grow :)
Oh thank you Alex!
Quote from: Tarkus on June 20, 2012, 11:52:52 AM
Right now, the NWM is in "standby mode". There's a few small additions finished (OWR-1 and OWR-3 wide radius curves, the multi-tile S-Curves), and a few I'll be sneaking in at the end (new transitions based on the textures supplied by michi_cc and Dexter).
I guess those transitions didn't end up in NAM 31 after all, or am I just too dumb to find them?
Unfortunately, they did not make it in. They have some issues that could not be fixed in time.
Quote from: michi_cc on March 02, 2013, 02:55:01 PM
I guess those transitions didn't end up in NAM 31 after all, or am I just too dumb to find them?
The AVE-6/RD-6 and TLA-7/RD-6 transitions did make it in, however--thanks to your textures. :)
-Alex
Yes, but they are usless untill the entire NAM31 is installed and working properly. I am so dis-appointed that I had to uninstall NAM31 as the RHW conflicts were just to overwhelming as my maps would just no load. Back to NAM30 and components and the maps load fine and work great. Really looking forward to a "Hot Fix" so I could enjoy all the hard work the NAM team did to make the update even better.
Could you please stop posting this in every subforum?
It should be noted the first few days post-NAM release are like this. Opening the mod to everyone means more eyes to point out bugs and any other issues we missed, and will be fixed in a update about a week or so after the initial release.
Remember, it's been 18 months since the last one came out so some people may not remember how these things work :P
Are there bugs in this release? Yes. Are the bugs really worth uninstalling it and reverting back? Not to me. Its actually kinda nice finally being able finally connect RHW with the MHW looking better than what it used to be like. Its also nice being able to transition from some NWM streets to RHW as well, with better looking connector pieces.
Yes its buggy, but I am sure the NAM team is busting their behinds working on the numerous bugs that have been posted
Remember this as well, when Windows XP came out in 2000/2001, it was full of bugs as well, and yet not to long afterwords, it became relatively bug free and eventually became the best selling OS for Microsoft(and probably still one of the widest used OS's even 12 years later). There is not one piece of software that is ever released, that is bug free at launch
I am sorry if I offended anyone. I am a realist and I love playing SC4 especailly with all the GREAT updates that have been provided from very hard working NAM team members The hard work they put into updates are forever in our debts. Again, I love SC4 mainly for the capability to create realistic environments with mountains, rivers, farms, cities, etc,; hence the reason I am not going to buy SC2013 as the new Sim City game does not allow such flexibility.
NAM30 came out with all the components that all work pretty seamless. I was only hoping for the same with NAM31. I am very anxious to start using NAM31 as it is long time coming and thank you so much NAM team for your hard work.
Well, you have to keep in mind that the new NAM is an entirely new approach, with a brand new installer that has a whole lot of new features, and that there is far more new content than in the releases we had so far. I think most of the bugs that were reported so far were RHW-related, but this is not that much of a surprise, considering that the RHW has been completely reworked, using entirely new techniques and what not. In the past, the NAM releases were postponed internally again and again until we caught most of the remaining bugs, but this time, we opted for the fixed release date. As you can see, everything has its drawbacks, and since the NAM team is a volunteer project that you can download for free. There's no chance that we can do both - providing a release in time and with as few bugs as possible. :)
Quote from: Haljackey on March 03, 2013, 08:47:04 AM
It should be noted the first few days post-NAM release are like this. Opening the mod to everyone means more eyes to point out bugs and any other issues we missed, and will be fixed in a update about a week or so after the initial release.
Remember, it's been 18 months since the last one came out so some people may not remember how these things work :P
Sure, there are always bugs and often there are hotfix packages, but I can't recall a NAM release that's been this buggy (though I also can't recall a NAM release with this many new features and techniques). However, I fully understand and support the reasoning behind what's been done here. It's been less than 48 hours but I now find it hard to imagine not having access to all of the new NAM features that do work. Plus, the hotfix package will iron out any remaining deficiencies.
Quote from: mike3775 on March 03, 2013, 09:20:05 AM
Are there bugs in this release? Yes. Are the bugs really worth uninstalling it and reverting back? Not to me. Its actually kinda nice finally being able finally connect RHW with the MHW looking better than what it used to be like. Its also nice being able to transition from some NWM streets to RHW as well, with better looking connector pieces.
Yes its buggy, but I am sure the NAM team is busting their behinds working on the numerous bugs that have been posted
Remember this as well, when Windows XP came out in 2000/2001, it was full of bugs as well, and yet not to long afterwords, it became relatively bug free and eventually became the best selling OS for Microsoft(and probably still one of the widest used OS's even 12 years later). There is not one piece of software that is ever released, that is bug free at launch
This is more like the transition to Windows Vista. NAM30 was out for 18 months (which is a really long time), before NAM31 was released. Like Windows Vista, there were major architectural changes and as a result, it is a bit buggier than previous releases. A lot of features were also removed because they weren't ready for release. Regardless, this version provides a lot of groundwork for future releases where additional stability and functionality is added for a more polished experience. NAM32 will be more like Windows 7 - a more stable release that builds upon the previous improvements and changes of NAM31.
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 03, 2013, 06:02:09 PM
Quote from: mike3775 on March 03, 2013, 09:20:05 AM
Are there bugs in this release? Yes. Are the bugs really worth uninstalling it and reverting back? Not to me. Its actually kinda nice finally being able finally connect RHW with the MHW looking better than what it used to be like. Its also nice being able to transition from some NWM streets to RHW as well, with better looking connector pieces.
Yes its buggy, but I am sure the NAM team is busting their behinds working on the numerous bugs that have been posted
Remember this as well, when Windows XP came out in 2000/2001, it was full of bugs as well, and yet not to long afterwords, it became relatively bug free and eventually became the best selling OS for Microsoft(and probably still one of the widest used OS's even 12 years later). There is not one piece of software that is ever released, that is bug free at launch
This is more like the transition to Windows Vista. NAM30 was out for 18 months (which is a really long time), before NAM31 was released. Like Windows Vista, there were major architectural changes and as a result, it is a bit buggier than previous releases. A lot of features were also removed because they weren't ready for release. Regardless, this version provides a lot of groundwork for future releases where additional stability and functionality is added for a more polished experience. NAM32 will be more like Windows 7 - a more stable release that builds upon the previous improvements and changes of NAM31.
So what is NAM 33 going to be like? Windows 8?? :P
Quote from: Shadow Assassin on March 03, 2013, 06:02:09 PM
Quote from: mike3775 on March 03, 2013, 09:20:05 AM
Are there bugs in this release? Yes. Are the bugs really worth uninstalling it and reverting back? Not to me. Its actually kinda nice finally being able finally connect RHW with the MHW looking better than what it used to be like. Its also nice being able to transition from some NWM streets to RHW as well, with better looking connector pieces.
Yes its buggy, but I am sure the NAM team is busting their behinds working on the numerous bugs that have been posted
Remember this as well, when Windows XP came out in 2000/2001, it was full of bugs as well, and yet not to long afterwords, it became relatively bug free and eventually became the best selling OS for Microsoft(and probably still one of the widest used OS's even 12 years later). There is not one piece of software that is ever released, that is bug free at launch
This is more like the transition to Windows Vista. NAM30 was out for 18 months (which is a really long time), before NAM31 was released. Like Windows Vista, there were major architectural changes and as a result, it is a bit buggier than previous releases. A lot of features were also removed because they weren't ready for release. Regardless, this version provides a lot of groundwork for future releases where additional stability and functionality is added for a more polished experience. NAM32 will be more like Windows 7 - a more stable release that builds upon the previous improvements and changes of NAM31.
well I used XP since it was a new way for OS's to work, and it took a few months for MS to get everything relatively bug free. Win 7 is really just Vista SP III(as it was the same underlying OS, just tweaks added).
But overall, I have been happy with Nam 31, bugs and all. Sure there are things that left out that were promised, but I can't complain, because the NAM team is doing this on their own time for fun, and I am not paying money for it.
Like SA mentioned, as long as NAM 33 is not like Windows 8, I have no issues :)
Quote from: Tarkus on March 02, 2013, 03:32:39 PM
The AVE-6/RD-6 and TLA-7/RD-6 transitions did make it in, however--thanks to your textures. :)
Sure about that? They are at least not in my NWM transition tab ring, and they networks don't seem to auto-connect either. I did delete my old NAM folder completely, so a conflict is unlikely, but of course not impossible.
I just checked here on my end. I was able to get right to them at the end of the NWM Transitions TAB Loop.
-Alex
Okay, I've deleted all NAM files and installed it again and now it is working. No idea where the difference to before is, but oh well...
Hi, I think there's some trouble with the OWR-4 paths. Not sure if this problem happened due to the latest NAM so I'm posting it here.
As you can see from these pictures, cars that enter the OWR-4 on the left side cannot make a right turn. As a result, they do not exit the freeway and take a very long path to do what should have been a simple right turn.
Left turn: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/itsacoaster/owr4_left.jpg:original
Right turn: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/itsacoaster/owr4_right.jpg:original
Now if you take a look at the paths, it appears as though it's not possible for cars in the second lane from the left to make it to the right-hand lane.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/itsacoaster/owr4_paths.jpg:original
It appears as though the same would be true for cars in the right tile trying to make a left turn, and OWR-5 is the same way.
Is this the intended behavior?
The idea behind that sort of pathing was that the vehicles would be able to use the crossover paths and make it over to the rightmost lane--which it doesn't appear they're doing for some reason. The paths generally don't allow dual-lefts and dual-rights off of the wider NWM OWRs, as, from a realism standpoint, that would create an unrealistic traffic pattern.
-Alex
Yeah, I understand the purpose of the crossover paths. It's possible that it worked before, but I honestly couldn't tell you for sure. I think I would have noticed if it wasn't working but I've only used the wider OWRs a handful of times.
And just so you know, I tried a different alignment (with a longer OWR-4 approaching the intersection) and fast forwarded through several game months to see if it would recalculate but it never worked.
Question on the NWM. I have an TLA-5, which is a double-tile road. How can I transition this down to either a 2 or 3 lane road? The only transition piece I see is from a TLA-5 to a MAVE-4 which is still a dual-tile network.
Suggestions / examples of how to do this, or if it's even possible?
EDIT: Somewhat answering my own question, it looks like I can drag a Maxis avenue off of the end of a TLA-5, which then lets me just drag a Maxis road off of it, but is there a better way?
Quote from: regoarrarr on April 27, 2013, 07:02:05 AM
Somewhat answering my own question, it looks like I can drag a Maxis avenue off of the end of a TLA-5, which then lets me just drag a Maxis road off of it, but is there a better way?
Nope. They can't make transitions between every network; this is the shortest way to do it.
If you want a smoother transition from 5-to-3 lane TLA avenue, you can use the AVE-4-to-AVE-2 transition, drag TLA-5 into the AVE-4 side, and drag TLA-3 into the AVE-2 side.
is there an easy way to get rid of the turn arrows on TLA-3/5/7 ?
you know, those that pop op every few tiles since 31.1
to me, they're a real eyesore and tbh I can't remember ever seeing them in RL &mmm
Quote from: GMT on April 28, 2013, 02:12:20 AM
is there an easy way to get rid of the turn arrows on TLA-3/5/7 ?
you know, those that pop op every few tiles since 31.1
to me, they're a real eyesore and tbh I can't remember ever seeing them in RL &mmm
Ya? They're used quite often here:
-But the dashed line is on the outside :P
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDBBQzOC.jpg&hash=b17c032aeb1bf92ca6610a0a48ce67441e4e5628)
Perhaps something like a TuLEP for these arrow markings could work instead?
EDIT: Or maybe a cosmetic piece?
Quote from: GMT on April 28, 2013, 02:12:20 AM
is there an easy way to get rid of the turn arrows on TLA-3/5/7 ?
you know, those that pop op every few tiles since 31.1
to me, they're a real eyesore and tbh I can't remember ever seeing them in RL &mmm
Yes, simply remove the TLA Center Turn Arrows folder from your NWM folder and you're good ;)
Quote from: Magneto on April 28, 2013, 11:48:11 AM
Yes, simply remove the TLA Center Turn Arrows folder from your NWM folder and you're good ;)
you, sir, are a genius &apls
thanks for the help
Quote from: Haljackey on April 28, 2013, 10:30:31 AM
Ya? They're used quite often here:
-But the dashed line is on the outside :P
Perhaps something like a TuLEP for these arrow markings could work instead?
EDIT: Or maybe a cosmetic piece?
maybe a canadian thing?
when I lived in the states (phoenix,az with regular trips to vegas and LA), I've never seen a single set of these, that's why I wondered.
anyways, a cosmetic piece sounds good to me.
or maybe make it an optional item in the installer? under the arrows section for roundabouts/1way...
Everywhere I've lived in the US paints the turn arrows in the turn lane. My hometown is obsessed with TLAs and they're all painted that way.
I have some suggestions for the NWM:
I would like to have:
-) Bridges and underpasses for the 7,5m puzzle-pieces
-) Exit/Entrance Ramps for the 15m Ave/Road/One-Way Network
-) Turning lanes for the 15mAve
Actually a lot of these are possible if you're willing to transition to other networks.
-Simply transition your one or two tile NWMs to road or ave to make 7.5m overpasses or let other networks pass over them. Then just simply convert then back to NWM on the other side.
-Again, just transition them for a short distance to use the ramps/slip lanes from the other networks.
-There is a turning lane for the 15m ave, but its currently designed in mind for single-point diamond RHW interchanges.
I noticed people would do just that, when they would switch from a 3 tile NWM to three tile Elevated RHW 6, before continuing the 3 tile NWM across. In this setup, they had that overpass there.
As for angled entrances desired for elevated avenues/oneways/roads, without dropping back to the ground, I would say El-RHW ramps are just going to have to be used for ramps between those 15m elevated piece setups.
Eventually, the plan is to have elevated NWM networking. But we don't yet know when that will be.
-Alex
@DJSun1981: For the 1st point use L1 RHW-x and for 2nd one use L2. ;)
@Haljackey: These solutions are good for TLA 5 or RD-4, ;) but for other cases are visually and functionally better intersection puzzle pieces. &mmm
Quote from: Tarkus on May 19, 2013, 09:09:00 PM
Eventually, there plan is to have elevated NWM networking. But we don't yet know when that will be.
-Alex
Should be one of your biggest priorities. What's your top priority right now?
Quote from: Wiimeiser on May 19, 2013, 11:16:08 PM
Quote from: Tarkus on May 19, 2013, 09:09:00 PM
Eventually, there plan is to have elevated NWM networking. But we don't yet know when that will be.
-Alex
Should be one of your biggest priorities. What's your top priority right now?
Fixing NAM31, not making cosmetically different clones of existing content.
Yup. Between fixing NAM 31 and RL, I haven't actually made much in the way of new content for at least a couple months now.
Quote from: jdenm8 on May 19, 2013, 11:20:18 PM
not making cosmetically different clones of existing content.
To be fair, if we're talking about Elevated NWM, there are a few networks that do have functional impetus. But making the existing Road/OWR/AVE viaducts draggable is a higher priority. The next highest priority on the NWM side would be adding more transitions, followed by delving further into the diagonal intersections.
-Alex
there aint no owr3 to tla7/rd6 transitions yet, right? or did I miss them?
you can plop the starter pieces adjacent to each other...
You could also use the TLA-7/AVE-6 to RD-6 transition , place a RD-6 starter there, and drag OWR-3 from the RD-6.
Quote from: Kuewr665 on May 21, 2013, 04:39:03 PM
You could also use the TLA-7/AVE-6 to RD-6 transition , place a RD-6 starter there, and drag OWR-3 from the RD-6.
That will work unless you want a one-tile gap in the middle.
If so, converting your route to RHW for a short duration will work. Connect your TLA-7 or AVE-6 to a RHW 6C, use the 6C to 6S transition, and connect OWR-3s from there on in.
-Note that zones can't grow in the RHW segment, but that might be a good place to make a park ;)
Quote from: Tarkus on April 18, 2013, 09:13:35 PM
The idea behind that sort of pathing was that the vehicles would be able to use the crossover paths and make it over to the rightmost lane--which it doesn't appear they're doing for some reason. The paths generally don't allow dual-lefts and dual-rights off of the wider NWM OWRs, as, from a realism standpoint, that would create an unrealistic traffic pattern.
-Alex
Just wondering if you have looked into this at all. In case you haven't, I did a couple of simple tests to see whether the OWR-4 and OWR-5 crossover paths were working. As you can see from the following links, the OWR-5 works correctly but the OWR-4 does not.
OWR-4: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/itsacoaster/sc4/owr4test.jpg~original
OWR-5: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/itsacoaster/sc4/owr5test.jpg~original
Hello NAM-team!
I guess now you deal with NAM and 31.2 but I guess other members are interested in the future of NAM 32. We all know that it the main focus will be on developing NWM. I am curious to know some details about your future plans. I can suggest that you add new networks AVE-8/TLA-9 as well as some new TuLEP. With great pleasure I would appreciate if you create something like TuREPs - turns to the right lane for weaning. But perhaps the most interesting question I have is when you will begin work on NAM 32.
- Ivo
Quote from: itsacoaster on May 24, 2013, 01:40:20 PM
Just wondering if you have looked into this at all. In case you haven't, I did a couple of simple tests to see whether the OWR-4 and OWR-5 crossover paths were working. As you can see from the following links, the OWR-5 works correctly but the OWR-4 does not.
OWR-4: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/itsacoaster/sc4/owr4test.jpg~original
OWR-5: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/itsacoaster/sc4/owr5test.jpg~original
I haven't had a chance to really look at it further--that's really pretty strange. My guess is it may have to do with how the crossover paths are built between the two.
Quote from: ivo_su on May 25, 2013, 04:26:52 AM
I guess now you deal with NAM and 31.2 but I guess other members are interested in the future of NAM 32. We all know that it the main focus will be on developing NWM. I am curious to know some details about your future plans. I can suggest that you add new networks AVE-8/TLA-9 as well as some new TuLEP. With great pleasure I would appreciate if you create something like TuREPs - turns to the right lane for weaning. But perhaps the most interesting question I have is when you will begin work on NAM 32.
I haven't had much time to really do any developing at all since 31.0--it's been all RL and bugfixing for 31.x releases. I won't know much until I get a little way into development, but TuLEP expansion is in the cards. The AVE-8/TLA-9 most likely won't be--much like the RHW-12S and 10C, they're indefinitely on hold, as there's way too many things to crosslink right now.
-Alex
4 words:
One. Way. Road. Parking.
Quote from: Northern Pyro on June 02, 2013, 05:43:00 PM
4 words:
One. Way. Road. Parking.
A mod exists for on-street parking for the street network: http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=115
I'm sure one could be created for NWM OWRs, but that would be out of the NAM's scope (functionality first!).
Howdie mayors; long time no speak lol. I was wondering if you can link to the newest version of the NWM and RHW. I noticed that the orgional ones were locked. And thanks in advance
The latest versions are included in the NAM 31.2. As per NAM 31 policy, all NAM plugins are now in the so-called monolithic NAM.
How about an AVE-6 splitter to 2 OWR-2 with RD-2 or AVE-2 in the middle? You can have it change between the two by just rotating, if that makes things easier...
^ Such a piece already exists for RHW. And AVE-6 can transition into one end of it; OWR-2 transitions right into the other end.
I do know that piece, but I think a NWM piece would be great, especially for compactness and RCI access.
Considering that 3 separate pieced RHW splitter, I guess the easier way, would be that piece could just be reformatted out of the and converted, problem solved, maybe, but I just don't see that happening any time soon. Can't say that's a sure thing, I'm just saying it's not impossible.
What is the status of streets that are two tiles wide? (approximately the width of a RD-4, maybe a little less) Would they be covered by this mod?
I wouldn't be disappointed if they will not be done, but I couldn't find anything from searches.
I don't think it's even been discussed. One-way streets were, but not double-wide.
I was about to say that there aren't that many unmarked, extra-wide streets IRL, but the more I think about it, the more examples I think of. I kind of like the idea.
But Alex won't, it'd just mean one more network to code for when making draggable viaducts. $%Grinno$%
I have so far only driven on one such stretch of road, and it was part of a dual carriage way where the Department of Construction has forgotten to mark the lanes.
Exits and splitters from NWM-networks would be great for those who want to create a slow-speed, inner city ringroad/arterial.
Quote from: Flatron on September 22, 2013, 01:17:50 AM
Exits and splitters from NWM-networks would be great for those who want to create a slow-speed, inner city ringroad/arterial.
You can always use the Ave 4 ramps for slow speed roads since ramps for the Ave 4 or maxis avenue have existed since NAM 30. You also have the added bonus of L1 and L2 overpasses and underpasses both diagonal and orthogonal on-slope transitions. You still have to use the MIS to connect your crossroads. Just my contribution.
-eggman121
I notice such streets in inner city neighborhoods, where they can be nearly as wide to fit a four-laned road. What I have in mind are streets north of Broadway east of Euclid in Tucson. Fremont Ave, three blocks to the east, is a good example.
The examples I can think of are in some high-wealth neighborhoods. Some sections of some of the streets are divided by medians, avenue-style. On each side there's room for two lanes, but there are no markings. And in other places it's just one big 80-foot wide unmarked street.
a total waste of space and an abomination ;)
:D
Like I said, American high-wealth suburbs. There's two golf courses in the neighborhood, and...well, just look at some of the houses.
The point is that the streets do exist and I think they are a viable addition to the NWM.
Well, more like a valid addition. I agree, they do have a basis in RL (or, at least in America; I've seen these before) ironically in SC4 these streets would have double capacity of the real thing and little added value in terms of function, and I think one of the time-tested NAM guidelines is form follows function (though I guess we do have the SAM). Perhaps if it was a SAM addition (we have 6 more slots, I think), it would be less difficult to code for, but I think autoconnect is probably one reason why this idea might be resigned to the realms of imagination only.
One Way streets in real life, at least mine, technically are still wide for 2 car lanes, but are not supposed to be treated as a 2 lane One Way Road, just the one direction, but to SC4 terms, if ever implemented, are still only 1 lane wide, despite the tendency for those to build two parallel one lane wide networks next to each other, respectfully. In the beginning I used to see urban planners make the streets with trees in the middle all super wide, despite it was never supposed to be four lane traffic. Too often the streets would be that fat, keeping in mind, the 50's and 60's had much bigger cars. These days, they build the roads with the trees in the middle more closely to the roads in the NWM.
Also, this last NAM release with the draw-able based curved streets should of allowed a straight away but constant S curved section of street network taking up the full two tiles wide, provided the streets continue to curve back and fourth. Where as, I don't remember seeing a conjoined two tile wide straight away street for this game. The other thing is since the release of curved streets came with the cost of taking more tiles to build, as opposed to the tighter original diagonal street transition, more land would need to be reserved or considered IF such wider conjoined street was going to happen, but with the housing system the way it is in this game, I don't see how you would safely do wider streets with realistic curves/diagonals. I have had interesting stuff occur though, but not always right, my game likes to build custom diagonal houses, and bigger mc mansions just like in those satellite images on the new curves, and existing NAM culdesacs, even though the zone arrows do not connect on culdesacs. It kills me because that means there is a way to build a diagonal SC4 lot on a culdesac, we just don't have access to it. If that's not pushing it, I dunno what is.
Quote from: APSMS on September 22, 2013, 03:59:35 PM
Well, more like a valid addition. I agree, they do have a basis in RL (or, at least in America; I've seen these before) ironically in SC4 these streets would have double capacity of the real thing and little added value in terms of function, and I think one of the time-tested NAM guidelines is form follows function (though I guess we do have the SAM). Perhaps if it was a SAM addition (we have 6 more slots, I think), it would be less difficult to code for, but I think autoconnect is probably one reason why this idea might be resigned to the realms of imagination only.
Yes, it would actually have to be a road-based network to work. Functionally, it should really have the same capacity as normal streets, which from what I understand is entirely possible through the same process used to set the capacities for the different NWM networks. So yes, it would be mostly cosmetic like the SAM.
But you're right in the fact that function is the priority; such a network would be near the bottom of the work list if it ever made it there at all. Unless enough people lobby for it and offer to contribute. I'd be interested.
The idea of converting the OWR-1 over to a Street-based OWS-1 (for capacity reasons, and because many people have repeatedly requested a "Street" specifically over the years) is still on the table and likely to be implemented. One could sort of pull off a wide street that way, with two of those side by side, which would work out capacity-wise. There's a few of those sorts of things in Oregon, many in older neighborhoods, no less--such as Villard Street (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Villard+St+Eugene&hl=en&ll=44.040169,-123.064071&spn=0.00234,0.004128&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&hnear=Villard+St,+Eugene,+Lane,+Oregon+97403&t=k&z=19) in Eugene, and SE Reed College Place (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Southeast+Reed+College+Place,+Portland,+OR&hl=en&ll=45.474755,-122.629102&spn=0.002272,0.004128&sll=44.040169,-123.064071&sspn=0.00234,0.004128&oq=Reed+College+Place&t=k&hnear=SE+Reed+College+Pl,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97202&z=19) and this short stretch of SE 72nd Ave (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Southeast+72nd+Ave&hl=en&ll=45.48839,-122.588169&spn=0.004563,0.008256&sll=45.474755,-122.629102&sspn=0.002272,0.004128&t=k&hnear=SE+72nd+Ave,+Portland,+Oregon&z=18) in Portland.
The thing with simply re-basing the OWR-1 as OWS-1 is that we can re-use the same IIDs, meaning there's actually no new networks being added, and thus, no new crosslinks, though there'd need to be some new RUL2 code written to override the base Street network items.
The capacity trick we've used on some NWM networks only allows us to increase capacity from the base network, by a fixed amount. That amount is the value of the Intersection and Turn Capacity Effect property in the Traffic Simulator Exemplar, which has been set to 1.25 (meaning the capacity is increased by a factor of 25%) in the NAM Traffic Simulator, since NAM 29/NWM 1.1. Whatever value we use for the ITCE, that's the factor by which the capacity of networks with DIPs and crossover paths will be adjusted.
-Alex
I had not thought of using S-curves...
On the auto-connect: The RHW does the same thing, yet has many more overrides. Though it does not make as much at-grade intersections. &mmm
I have a suggestion: Since we have a NRD-4, why not convert it to an OWR? (NOWR-4) It can look good in tight downtown areas, and of course, be more compact than the two-tile OWR-4. It's also resistant to the 'tidal flow' effect of the OWR-4 and OWR-5. ::)
Quote from: Geometry123 on October 23, 2013, 02:25:53 AM
I have a suggestion: Since we have a NRD-4, why not convert it to an OWR? (NOWR-4)
No new NWM networks are planned to be added. The networks already available (with the exception of the still-to-be-implemented AVE-8 and TLA-9) are pretty much the final networks for the NWM.
Guys I was wondering if it'd be possible and how much work to create duplicate instances of one of the NWM networks (or standard game networks for that matter), same texture, but different T21s. That way we could have some sidewalk variations, e.g. trees, cars parked on the side etc.
Would there be any interest in this, has it been explored/considered before?
Your thoughts? :)
Quote from: xannepan on October 23, 2013, 08:20:42 AM
Guys I was wondering if it'd be possible and how much work to create duplicate instances of one of the NWM networks (or standard game networks for that matter), same texture, but different T21s. That way we could have some sidewalk variations, e.g. trees, cars parked on the side etc.
That would be akin to creating a SAM version of the NWM. It wouldn't be practical for the same reason that there's no SAM equivalent of the RHW: Too much code to add in, and RUL-2 would be unnecessarily larger than it already is.
Ah too bad. Rul coding is one of the modding aspects i am still completely unfamiliar with. So what you're saying is that new rul codes are needed despite that the network texture and its blending with other network textures would be exactly the same as the original instance, correct?
That is correct. Technically, you will need other texture IIDs, because that's how T21 files work: they refer to a texture (or exemplar, in case of a model) IID and traits like placement pattern, wealth and density. If you want to make different T21s for the same texture, you can only do this for another combination of traits, or both T21s will appear at random. If this is not what you wanted, you have to duplicate an entire network with new RULs, IIDs and not to mention, the required cross-linkage.
It may look simple in theory, but in practice it's a lot of work...
Quote from: xannepan on October 23, 2013, 10:24:33 AM
Ah too bad. Rul coding is one of the modding aspects i am still completely unfamiliar with. So what you're saying is that new rul codes are needed despite that the network texture and its blending with other network textures would be exactly the same as the original instance, correct?
You would need to end up with an NWM scheme that would look like this for the single-tile networks:
0x5100#### - TLA-3
0x5101#### - AVE-2
0x5102#### - ARD-3
0x5103#### - OWR-1
0x5104#### - OWR-3
0x5105#### - NRD-4
0x5106#### - TLA-3 again
0x5107#### - AVE-2 again
0x5108#### - ARD-3 again
0x5109#### - OWR-1 again
0x510a#### - OWR-3 again
0x510b#### - NRD-4 again
0x510c#### - TLA-3 again again
0x510d#### - AVE-2 again again
0x510e#### - ARD-3 again again
0x510f#### - OWR-1 again again
You'd run out of room when you reach 0x510f####, but when you hit 0x5120, you run into the two-tile NWM networks.
Thx guys. I get it. Too bad though, would have been great for variation. Well, I guess i can almost reach the same goal with sam overrides :)
You could, of course, load the game with one T21 mod and drag your roads. Then save and restart with another T21 mod and drag the roads in another part of your city. Trouble is of course you need to be careful when the two meet. One click too many and you need to reload again. But it works in its own limited way.
Cheers
Willy
Also, T21 files already allow for a wide range of variation. For instance, consider this pattern:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg338.imageshack.us%2Fimg338%2F2740%2F07xa1.jpg&hash=ef9d05d7ebc728263cf718ad1c9ecbcecd8b710b)
Each row could represent a street in West/East direction that has a different prop layout attached to it, e.g. one of the streets has parked cars, one is tree-lined, etc. You would not have the same degree of freedom as with the SAM, but at least it is always consistent, in contrast to Willy's proposal, and offers a lot of variety.
Hello xannepan
One Idea you could try is to set T21s to certain zone and wealth types. The T21 allows you to change the type of props that appear based on the type of zone or and wealth of the adjacent lots and zones. I'm using this method to place speed signs on the Transport Signage mod that I am working on.
There is more information in this tutorial created by swamper77 which can be found here:
http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:How_to_Create_T21_Exemplars_%28Swamper77s_way%29
Zone mapping may allow you to have the variety of props that you require and may allow you to have the same customization as if it was a SAM network. I am pretty proficient with T21s now so I can help you if you need more information. Memo also has some great information so he may be able to help as well.
-eggman121
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 23, 2013, 10:42:16 AM
You'd run out of room when you reach 0x510f####, but when you hit 0x5120, you run into the two-tile NWM networks.
Actually, you'd run out of room sooner than that. 0x5110 is where the dual-tile NWM networks start, and 0x5120 is the start of the triple-tilers. A good portion of the remainder of the 0x510# range may also end up being consumed by single-tile Elevated NWM networks.
-Alex
so. the NAM 32 is not released? :D or is been released? /wrrd%&
Quote from: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 11:30:08 AM
so. the NAM 32 is not released? :D or is been released? /wrrd%&
Nope, NAM v32 has not yet been released. Version 31.2 is the latest :)
Quote from: samerton on November 04, 2013, 11:35:45 AM
Quote from: Meeston on November 04, 2013, 11:30:08 AM
so. the NAM 32 is not released? :D or is been released? /wrrd%&
Nope, NAM v32 has not yet been released. Version 31.2 is the latest :)
when NAM 32 will be released? i'm so exciting about NAM 32! ;D
how many times we have to say, there are no release dates for NAM $%Grinno$%
Quote from: gn_leugim on November 04, 2013, 12:10:08 PM
how many times we have to say, there are no release dates for NAM $%Grinno$%
okay. but i gonna wait the NAM 32. :'(
NAM 32 will be released Soon™
hmmm.. may we expect a good xmas gift? :p
Quote from: gn_leugim on November 04, 2013, 01:15:40 PM
hmmm.. may we expect a good xmas gift?
Just for the record and for anyone else playing at home, the odds (the true odds, not the mathematically ludicrous one) of determining the true odds of a NAM release is zero out of infinity, not 1/31.
And anyone who has followed NAM development will either know this or has a good idea of it. Plus, it makes for a great surprise.
Things are getting antsy up in here...take a deep breath everyone. There's still lots of work to do. :thumbsup:
Let's just take it slow. The NAM 32 will be out when it's all nice and prepped up for us :satisfied:
Quote from: Indiana Joe on November 04, 2013, 02:54:01 PM
Things are getting antsy up in here...take a deep breath everyone. There's still lots of work to do. :thumbsup:
Or is there? ;)
Just got rid of my mathematically wrong odds of NAM 32 being released on December in my signature. $%Grinno$%
Anyways, my new signature probably makes sense... ::)
QuoteYou will never know when will the next NAM be released. Only time teasing will tell. :P
Quote from: Geometry123 on November 04, 2013, 08:49:30 PM
Just got rid of my mathematically wrong odds of NAM 32 being released on December in my signature. $%Grinno$%
Anyways, my new signature probably makes sense... ::)
QuoteYou will never know when will the next NAM be released. Only time teasing will tell. :P
okay. but i'm using the NAM 31.2. :(
Regarding "issues" with NC pieces if we use a OWR approach for AVE-8, I don't think it'll be much of a problem. The middle tile can still connect, and that's the important part (That's assuming it can carry traffic)
Quote from: Wiimeiser on November 05, 2013, 07:56:41 PM
Regarding "issues" with NC pieces if we use a OWR approach for AVE-8, I don't think it'll be much of a problem. The middle tile can still connect, and that's the important part (That's assuming it can carry traffic)
okay. &apls
Huh? What is this about using OWR for the AVE-8? ()what()
yep. AVE-6 uses road. but AVE-8 uses OWR? ()what()
Quote from: Kuewr665 on November 05, 2013, 08:02:46 PM
Huh? What is this about using OWR for the AVE-8? ()what()
Since the AVE-8 doesn't exist, you can use opposing stretches of OWR-4 to emulate the same function.
Someone referred to using OWR in an implementation of AVE-8. I could not find where it said the AVE-8 will use OWR.
Quote from: Kuewr665 on November 06, 2013, 02:56:50 PM
Someone referred to using OWR in an implementation of AVE-8. I could not find where it said the AVE-8 will use OWR.
Unless you're talking about using two OWR-4's as an AVE-8 replacement, it was proposed at one point that the outer parts of AVE-8 would be OWR-based to give the network a greater capacity than AVE-6, but there would be several problems with such an implementation:
- OWR has a greater speed, in addition to a greater capacity (1.5 times that of Road), so there could be an unbalanced advantage to using AVE-8. It would be tantamount to using dual OWRs as a complete replacement to Avenues, which I find as cheating (and in many instances, ugly).
- Arrows. Unless implemented differently, you'd have the OWR's arrows on the AVE-8.
- Speaking of arrows, you'd be hassled with having to drag things in the right direction, whereas if you used Road instead, it wouldn't matter which way you dragged because it has no reversibility. It's easy to accidentally reverse the direction of one side of the AVE-8, and then the whole thing could break. There's also the cost of reversing the segment of OWR, which can add up if you're dealing with a long stretch of AVE-8.
- Neighbour connections. You can't make OWR NCs. Yes, the centre tile will be Road, but it'll be bottlenecked with having to deal with up to four (yes, four) times the capacity it was meant to handle.
I don't see why we don't just use road? I am confused was this and still is the original idea? I thought the geniuses at NAM HQ can up the capacity of roads using some trick to make it equal to two OWR-4's.
Ganaram's post seems to indicate that road would make more sense.
Also for the capacity increase I do not see why the popular method for increasing capacity would not work here.
Quote from: Durfsurn on November 06, 2013, 04:04:36 PM
I thought the geniuses at NAM HQ can up the capacity of roads using some trick to make it equal to two OWR-4's.
The original idea was to use an all-Road implementation for AVE-8 and TLA-9, but a hybrid approach was brought up far later. The only way to increase capacity of any network without tampering with the Traffic Simulator is to give it distilled intersection paths (DIPing), but that only works if the network in question doesn't already have crossover paths or TLA pathing, both of which constitute as DIPing. You can only dip a network once; there's no way to double-dip. If both the AVE-6 and AVE-8 were made using just Road, both networks will have the same exact capacity, period. This is the same situation that has always happened with the 8S and 10S, and 6C and 8C; each pair of networks has the same exact capacity.
The thing about OWRs is that, in real-life, they exhibit greater advantages than that of just regular two-way roads, and to reflect that, the OWRs in the NAM have greater speed and capacity than that of Road. In the past, Avenues, OWRs, and Roads were completely equalised, so back then, it wouldn't be a problem, but since everything in the NAM is based off of realism, there's no way to get around it unless you wanna be unrealistic.
Back to DIPing. DIPped networks have a 25% increase in networks, so an AVE-6/8 made of three Roads would have the same capacity as 3.75 individual roads. OWRs have capacities 1.5 times that of Road. OWR-4 is two of those OWRs, times two for two OWR-4's, times 1.25 per OWR-4 for the DIP effect, so a dual OWR-4 would have the capacity as 7.5 Roads. At that point, it be more of an intermediary network between RHW and non-RHW. This is all due to not only the DIP effect and the higher capacity of OWR, but also due to the fact that a dual OWR-4 takes up one more tile than a single AVE-6/8. No amount of DIPing can ever get Roads on par with OWRs in terms of capacity, unless you break the Traffic Simulator, which is ill-advised unless you absolutely wanna test something out.
Quote from: Kuewr665 on November 06, 2013, 04:08:40 PM
Ganaram's post seems to indicate that road would make more sense.
Also for the capacity increase I do not see why the popular method for increasing capacity would not work here.
We've blindly used a different network for a capacity boost before. DDRHW-4 was originally a Rail-based network because its capacity was greatly higher than that of RHW, up to twice as much, but then it was later (waaaaaaay later) discovered that if you force a Rail-based network to accept Road-type traffic, its capacity falls back to that of Road, thereby rendering the entire network useless.
Since this was an unforeseen issue, every single instance of rail-based DDRHW not only doesn't work, but is no longer supported by the current NAM. We've long since done away with Rail-based RHWs and were forced back to retreat to using regular RHW. The drawback is decreased capacity, but it works. (The other solution was to create MHW-based DDRHW, which would still have a somewhat greater capacity, but it wasn't well-explored as of now.)
So, if a network has paths that go off more than two edges of the tile, that increases the capacity. I think I understand it better.
Quote from: Kuewr665 on November 06, 2013, 04:48:30 PM
So, if a network has paths that go off more than two edges of the tile, that increases the capacity. I think I understand it better.
It can also decrease the capacity. There's a value in the Traffic Simulator that increases (or decreases) the capacity on intersections. Depending on the traffic simulator (NAM-depreciated, NAM-approved, or third-party), this can either do nothing, do something good, or make everything useless.
As I said before, there was a time when OWR, Avenue, and Road capacities were all equalised, but so were the capacities on intersections. If that aforementioned value is just 1, the DIP effect won't activate. This is with older versions of the NAM Traffic Simulator, like the ones from about 3-4 years ago.
The current Traffic Simulator has a multiplier of 1.25, so the DIP effect will work as intended (so long as you have the current Traffic Simulator installed at all times), but third-party Traffic Simulators may assign that multiplier to be less than one, thereby decreasing the capacities of any network that has DIPs, crossover paths, or TLA paths (in other words, nearly all of the NWM and the RHW). This is why it's always recommended to use the NAM Traffic Simulator; you're never sure if anything else works the same way. Not even the original Traffic Simulator works the same way. (Spoiler alert, it works terribly.)
Regarding NC'ing OWRs, isn't there a workaround somewhere to NC an OWR? Something similar to the trick that I've found a few days ago about a trick how to NC a street. For sure, there maybe a workaround somewhere... ::)
Quote from: Geometry123 on November 06, 2013, 06:53:36 PM
Regarding NC'ing OWRs, isn't there a workaround somewhere to NC an OWR? Something similar to the trick that I've found a few days ago about a trick how to NC a street. For sure, there maybe a workaround somewhere...
Having tried that millions of years ago already, I can say it doesn't work.
Hi! What is up with medians for AVE-2 and 6? Are these in NAM team domain, or a seperate thing?
Filling them is the job of T21 mods, so it's outside the NAM's domain. There are a few good sets on the STEX.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on November 06, 2013, 07:04:37 PM
Quote from: Geometry123 on November 06, 2013, 06:53:36 PM
Regarding NC'ing OWRs, isn't there a workaround somewhere to NC an OWR? Something similar to the trick that I've found a few days ago about a trick how to NC a street. For sure, there maybe a workaround somewhere...
Having tried that millions of years ago already, I can say it doesn't work.
I almost had this working.. but it had some problems..
Quote from: H2Odk on March 30, 2011, 02:03:59 PM
I needed to make a neighbourhood connection with OWR, so I edited the path of one of the Flup OWR pieces to allow me to use Flups to make this work. (Adding a new puzzle piece is beyond my skills)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg862.imageshack.us%2Fimg862%2F184%2Fowrnc.jpg&hash=b2f18b032b71771039673e8533b76198abdb377d)
But as you can see, some traffic (~1000 busses) are using the new neighbourhood connection path as a shortcut.
Since a RHW neighbourhood connection has the same problem/feature I wondered if anyone has found a solution to this?
Assuming they have no other way to go, just take it as them using roads in the other city.
Has there been any ideas or sugestions about adding in some crosswalks with traffic lights?
It would essentially be a normal crossroads but with only pedestrain paths and maybe possible to stack them together one next to the other to get wider crosswalks. All regulated by traffic lights, or even not.
I believe that the PedMall plugin is designed specifically for this, though it uses pedestrian bridges. I'm not sure if Ped Malls over NWM networks exist, but that might be a more viable request. It's unlikely that crosswalks would be released, since the same functionality can be serviced by a street (for multi-tile networks) and cosmetically with a TE-lot for all of the other situations.
Quote from: APSMS on November 14, 2013, 10:02:27 AM
I believe that the PedMall plugin is designed specifically for this, though it uses pedestrian bridges. I'm not sure if Ped Malls over NWM networks exist, but that might be a more viable request. It's unlikely that crosswalks would be released, since the same functionality can be serviced by a street (for multi-tile networks) and cosmetically with a TE-lot for all of the other situations.
Nope- I use a lot of Pedestrian malls and I've yet to see NWM pedestrian bridges-
riiga (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=14172.msg407493#msg407493) made some two years ago. I do not know the status of the paths now.
This post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg439370#msg439370) also makes a suggestion for NWM crosswalks, which received a reply from Tarkus that he has an interest in making them.
I still have the files, but they aren't really finished, and I'd probably need to redo some of them.
That would be nice Riiga!
either that or someone needs to make pedestrian bridges for NWM.
Ah, I was wondering what happened to the trails.
I would prefer crosswalks. They are more common and realistic.
In Colorado Springs there are 5 wide roads with ped bridges- one I know in particular is at the state school fo the deaf and blind. bridging over the road below- i love using the pedestrian malls and over the NWM would complete the look. also something I'd love to see is diagonal Tuleps- For some reason they've been left out many times.
Elevated network pieces need modeling to be created. Though there may just be copying over models, these are networks of different widths; the lanes can't exactly fit in between one tile gaps.
Also, I think there should be generic crosswalk pieces that can be used for any ped mall, not just the trails.
Quote from: titanicbuff on November 15, 2013, 07:03:32 PMalso something I'd love to see is diagonal Tuleps- For some reason they've been left out many times.
Diagonal TULEPs are just very hard to make. Diagonal crossings in themselves are tricky, and there's very little functionality in that regard in the NWM. That'll be the first priority going forward, and it'll be a big enough challenge already.
Cheers
Willy
Just watched this video of how the Dutch dealt with bicycle lanes through standard traffic intersections:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA
More to the point, I was wondering if it's possible to incorporate dedicated bike lanes and intersections as a cosmetic feature. It'd be a great complement to the separate bike paths I have planned for my city.
It is possible, but practically it would mean a heck of a lot of work to code in new networks (because what you do is basically coding in a new network). Other solutions are complete re-textures of existing networks that include bike paths (though, I'm not in the mood of making those).
And if there's someone who wants bike paths in game, it's me (since I'm dutch ;) ). But realistically, I don't see it happen soon.
Best,
Maarten
As a Tucsonan, I did at one point think that having bike lanes would be a useful addition. I actually do not think the addition would be useful or noticeable, given how bikes are not a separate mode of transport in the game.
I haven't played SC since april because of lack of time but I notice somewhere turbo roundabouts for SC4 but can't remember where.
Is this part of NWM?
Quote from: Dino007 on November 25, 2013, 10:31:58 AM
I haven't played SC since april because of lack of time but I notice somewhere turbo roundabouts for SC4 but can't remember where.
Is this part of NWM?
They will be included in an upcoming release.
Quote from: Tarkus on May 26, 2013, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: itsacoaster on May 24, 2013, 01:40:20 PM
Just wondering if you have looked into this at all. In case you haven't, I did a couple of simple tests to see whether the OWR-4 and OWR-5 crossover paths were working. As you can see from the following links, the OWR-5 works correctly but the OWR-4 does not.
OWR-4: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/itsacoaster/sc4/owr4test.jpg~original
OWR-5: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a113/itsacoaster/sc4/owr5test.jpg~original
I haven't had a chance to really look at it further--that's really pretty strange. My guess is it may have to do with how the crossover paths are built between the two.
It's been several months so I thought I'd check in on this issue with OWR-4 crossover paths. I hope someone else can at least duplicate the bug--last time I checked the bug still exists with a clean NAM installation. The network is very difficult if not impractical to use in its current state. Even though the setup pictured in the quote above is unusual for testing purposes, it behaves similarly in pretty normal setups, as detailed in this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg457941#msg457941).
If there has been a patch or further discussion that I missed, please let me know; in which case I apologize for the frivolous post.
Quote from: itsacoaster on December 15, 2013, 09:24:09 AM
It's been several months so I thought I'd check in on this issue with OWR-4 crossover paths. I hope someone else can at least duplicate the bug--last time I checked the bug still exists with a clean NAM installation. The network is very difficult if not impractical to use in its current state. Even though the setup pictured in the quote above is unusual for testing purposes, it behaves similarly in pretty normal setups, as detailed in this post (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1200.msg457941#msg457941).
If there has been a patch or further discussion that I missed, please let me know; in which case I apologize for the frivolous post.
I have just investigated this issue and it looks like the cross-over paths are insufficient. I fixed it in our files, in that the OWR4 paths now show the same properties as the OWR5 paths, but the OWR network has certain limitations. Specifically, you may occasionally observe reverse traffic in particular setups (This seems to have been the case for OWR5 before).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F1af0c58c3c12ebdaad3a635b1c9a1b88.jpg&hash=74994687ddd751be4658095e05c9170c039b6e89)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2Fbf8e501b6748896c8d18b5a5b37f7ab9.jpg&hash=3d1bcde9b15f953c5962bdf68ea80ece2220c4b4)
I don't have a patch for you, but the way things are developing, I am confident you won't have to wait several more months.
Quote from: memo on December 15, 2013, 01:01:29 PM
I have just investigated this issue and it looks like the cross-over paths are insufficient. I fixed it in our files, in that the OWR4 paths now show the same properties as the OWR5 paths, but the OWR network has certain limitations. Specifically, you may occasionally observe reverse traffic in particular setups (This seems to have been the case for OWR5 before).
I don't have a patch for you, but the way things are developing, I am confident you won't have to wait several more months.
Hey, thanks a bunch for taking a look. Good to hear, and best wishes to you and the team on future development.
Quote(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2Fbf8e501b6748896c8d18b5a5b37f7ab9.jpg&hash=3d1bcde9b15f953c5962bdf68ea80ece2220c4b4)
They just didn't want to take the long way around. I've seen it in real life unfortunately. ::)
Quote from: itsacoaster on December 16, 2013, 09:08:22 AM
Quote(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2Fbf8e501b6748896c8d18b5a5b37f7ab9.jpg&hash=3d1bcde9b15f953c5962bdf68ea80ece2220c4b4)
They just didn't want to take the long way around. I've seen it in real life unfortunately. ::)
A normal day in Portugal XD
Boy your sims are drunk!!!!! :D
I have a question: Is there any chance of one way roads getting more realistic interchange, with stop lights and crosswalks? I don't want functionality. Even a eye candy is ok. Because, in real live, I've never seen this kind of interchange, without stoplights. ;) ;D
PS: If you are asking who i am, I'm just regular simcity player. ;D
I second that!!! We need stoplights for on way roads... I mean, its ok for streets to not have them... but one way roads... specially big avenues, well... I second that !!
Quote from: memo on December 15, 2013, 01:01:29 PMIf there has been a patch or further discussion that I missed, please let me know; in which case I apologize for the frivolous post.
I have just investigated this issue and it looks like the cross-over paths are insufficient. I fixed it in our files, in that the OWR4 paths now show the same properties as the OWR5 paths, but the OWR network has certain limitations. Specifically, you may occasionally observe reverse traffic in particular setups (This seems to have been the case for OWR5 before).
[/quote]
Would there be any sense to switching NWM OWRs from OWR-based to road-based? I'm not as familiar as I wish I was with the networks limitations but we all know RHW works fine in "one-way" setups despite being a native 2-way network
Regarding the One-Way Road (OWR) signalization, it's an implementation matter. We can't have signals on there by default because they won't actually work. The OWR networks don't natively support the stop points that are necessary for the signals to function properly, and the NAM Team places pride in functionality above all else. There have been some alternate implementations examined, some with promise, but they're going to take some time to put together.
Quote from: noahclem on December 28, 2013, 01:08:51 PM
Would there be any sense to switching NWM OWRs from OWR-based to road-based? I'm not as familiar as I wish I was with the networks limitations but we all know RHW works fine in "one-way" setups despite being a native 2-way network
The issue one runs into is capacity. The NAM Traffic Simulator gives the OWR network a higher capacity than the Road network. I suppose the OWR-4 could be converted, leaving the OWR-5 as an OWR-based network, which would functionally differentiate the two (a big plus), and fits with the old OWS-1 proposal. Controlling the directionality is going to be the trick, however--one can't simply drag the network tool the other direction like on an OWR-based network.
-Alex
If I understood, it would be impossible to make functional due the engeneering of the game. But in the end it's a bit crazy, having a large OWR-5 crossing an avenue without any stoplights. I know that NAM TEAM prefers functionality than appearance, but I think the main objective of the game is to creat a city based on real life. And I don't imagine the fifth avenue (NY) without traffic control. It's a self-destrution bomb. And that is why the existence of eye candys, they doesn't have any function, but it makes more realistic.
Anyway, thanks for answering me. :thumbsup:
Ops, I almost forgot, I have 2 questions: Some pony denied the possibility of OWR-6, why not? This kind of OWR is realy common where I live, is it possible to make it? ::)
The problem with adding eye-candy signals is that some people will expect them to work. There's also the matter of the game not being able to know which direction traffic flows along the OWR network. Traffic lights will have to face in both directions to cover both cases. It's easier to leave the off and never have the idea enter those people's minds.
Quote from: lfb on December 28, 2013, 03:01:48 PM
If I understood, it would be impossible to make functional due the engeneering of the game. But in the end it's a bit crazy, having a large OWR-5 crossing an avenue without any stoplights. I know that NAM TEAM prefers functionality than appearance, but I think the main objective of the game is to creat a city based on real life. And I don't imagine the fifth avenue (NY) without traffic control. It's a self-destrution bomb. And that is why the existence of eye candys, they doesn't have any function, but it makes more realistic.
Anyway, thanks for answering me. :thumbsup:
Ops, I almost forgot, I have 2 questions: Some pony denied the possibility of OWR-6, why not? This kind of OWR is realy common where I live, is it possible to make it? ::)
To further what jdenm8 said, having traffic signals facing in both directions (or the wrong way) on a one-way road, and those signals being permanently stuck on green to boot, is equally unrealistic and would cause just every bit as much of a "self-destruction bomb" as not having the signals in the first place.
There are no plans at present to add any additional NWM networks. The OWR-6 was discussed at one point in a very cursory fashion, but the fact is that we can't functionally differentiate it from the OWR-4 or OWR-5 at present, and it'd create a crosslinking nightmare. The AVE-8/TLA-9 has effectively been cancelled for the time being as well, ditto with the RHW-12S and 10C on the RHW side, all for the same reasons.
-Alex
Quote from: lfb on December 28, 2013, 03:01:48 PM
Ops, I almost forgot, I have 2 questions: Some pony denied the possibility of OWR-6, why not? This kind of OWR is realy common where I live, is it possible to make it? ::)
Boy, these bronies! $%Grinno$%
The reason for a lack of possibility as regards introduction of new NWM networks is because of the crosslinking involved. All of the networks have to be compatible in terms of crossing other networks, including El-Rail/GLR, Rail/Viaduct Rail/STR, Monorail/BTM/HSRP, RHW(all widths/orientations), MHW/EMHW, and all of the NWM networks, and the base networks. In short, it's a lot of crosslinking, coding, and textures that, generally speaking, have already been made for the existing networks.
The problem is that a new network would have to be compatible with all of these networks pretty much from the start, and it would offer little in the way of functionality, a primary goal of the NAM (Cosmetics always come second, and generally if it's non-functional, you didn't get it here). Besides the texture work, which may or may not be that difficult depending on the modder, there is a vast amount of coding work to be done, all of dubious necessity since the demand for such a network is comparatively low compared to the amount of work required, as well as the increase in file size and city loading times that result from a larger controller file.
So the advantages are substantially reduced in comparison to the work involved. A similar reason is why the RHW-12s and RHW-10c have been postponed indefinitely, despite the fact that proper groundwork (e.g. textures, overrides, etc.) has already been laid for both these fictional networks (a quick perusal of the NAM files in the Reader will tell you this).
EDIT: Alex got here first; I think you get the idea, though.
Only now I realized the mistake that I did. I am ashamed! A bomb it is a "self-destruct" armament. I'm so dumb! &ops
I forgot to thank you guys, you were explaining with so much patience with me, that I'm really impressed. I love everything that you've been doing, all time that you spent testing around with a game that has a an outdated engineering, notwithstanding, it's even better, with your work.
Thanks, Louis.
I am just missing two parts of the geniously good new NWM:
a part with arrows: left and straight ahead - through right:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdGSKWyy.jpg&hash=819d98cd62e2fdf0c28c42562b3d18a1bebd459b)
This is a RHW-3 piece no a NWM one. :-[
And in this situation the piece are, on left, Straight and, on right, a curved arrow and already exist. :o
Ok, a RHW 3 ::)
Hmmm, I dont find it thats why I ask
Isnt the piece with the two arrows a tulip piece ?
RHW Cosmetic Pieces are not TuLEPs.
-Alex
I've looked all over and can't find anything confirming or denying this. When working with the three-lane avenues, the TLA-7 specifically, is it possible to drag a 90-degree or 45-degree turn on them? If that isn't implemented yet, is there a lessor road that I could easily transition to to do that?
Watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzGd2VfuvSc).
I just noticed the date on the video. Thanks for doing that for me.
Yes,
Diagonal AVE 6/7 is possible; but, one cannot develop or grow anything along the diagonal AVE 6/7. What a shame not to mention is adds some funky sidewalk that is over done.
I try to avoid diagonal AVE 6/7 due to this reason and would use RHW 6C instead as it looks better given the capabilities and use-abilities at this moment.
dyoungyn
Hello NAM team! It's me again... :-[
I have a different problem this time, with the NRD-4 (I think it is called).
Here is the second closest zoom:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5565/13887797809_28921f5788_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nadArP)
All's well.
But if you zoom out further it looks like this:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7206/13887796839_2594ccce7d_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nadAa6)
Only the first two zoom levels display accurately. The rest have the two textures swapped.
Does anyone else have this problem? ()what()
I've just fixed it in our database. For the time being, use the draggable transition, which works correctly. Simply drag two Road end stubs against each other without connecting them.
Oh wow! I just learned something new, and it works perfectly! Thanks! And thanks for the speedy response! ;D
Were these networks planned for a future inclusion? i.e. NAM 34?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FBKX65f0.png&hash=716eb8c30790bc1b97af28492f22f4ba4ece30a5)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZNqIwRF.png&hash=dd1fd93503092de876aac0fbcb3beb0065883b6e)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fjx0Ff55.png&hash=d3272bcc61564543f4d8aaefe2ebc0d4c8b30fe1)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FgY2HL80.png&hash=b3850f1dc05a9be95442b0e367fc5868180f4aee)
I believe no new networks will be added to the NWM in the foreseeable future. The crosslinking involved makes even one network addition almost prohibitively large, and the switch to FLEX-based networks is currently taking priority. The only way I can foresee some of those textures being used is in future TuLEP expansions, which are also being rethought and may take some time to surface as well (unfortunately).
A similar reason has been given for the indefinite postponement of the RHW-12S and 10C networks; the crosslinking would make the size of the controller unbearably large with limited additional functionality.
That being said, the TLA9 was definitely planned, at some point. There are even textures for it in the NWM files. I do also see some usefulness in the ARD5, but if any of these networks ever gets included is still written in the stars.
AVE-8/TLA-9's assets are still in the NWM, but the code to use them isn't. It was removed in the final pre-release version of NAM30.
As of the others, ARD-5 is already possible (Use half of a RD-4 and half of an RD-6) but the texture elements (Pedestrian crossings, grease marks) don't always line up.
Some people may find TLA-4 useful, but there's no allocation for the single-lane side.
I don't see much use for an ARD-4, except on approach to TuLEPs. It'd be better handled as puzzle pieces in that instance.
None of the above networks are planned to be implemented in any capacity more than they already are.
I actually had bigger plans for the ARD-4 at one point, as there's actually one in Portland--SE Morrison Street (https://goo.gl/maps/uZP9e). Oddly enough, the side with all the lanes actually adds a right turn lane at the intersection with Grand Avenue. But we're still drowning in crosslinks. The last thing we need right now is more networks, and we have enough on our plate just trying to get the networks we do have into a base feature set. The TLA-9 and AVE-8 are dead in the water. Because we have 13 NWM networks with which to contend, if we fully build out all the possible intersections involving diagonals, we're going to need to make somewhere around 2000 intersections. The textures are actually the easy part (we can procedurally generate them). It's the pathing that's the killer (at-grade intersections that involve turns = lots of individual path stanzas).
-Alex
If it's just a matter of putting in co-ords into the sc4 path creator 100's of times I am happy to help - school holidays = lots and lots of time :)
I would like to see ave-6 T-intersection, it's ugly to convert it to maxis-ave to make a T-intersection for it :<
Quote from: fefenc on July 02, 2014, 06:51:25 AM
I would like to see ave-6 T-intersection, it's ugly to convert it to maxis-ave to make a T-intersection for it :<
Actually, there are various sorts of T intersections for Ave6:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ld-host.de%2Fuploads%2Fimages%2F4e65e085b755337bb9e5801ab2528650.jpg&hash=32ccd5dd9c39780f0604b9448128c4f73c61e3fb)
There's even a TuLEP puzzle piece for the big one.
Yea, there is, I've forgot these intersections.
I'm sorry but I've forgot to mention T-intersection with normal Roads and streets, in this situation I'll need to convert the AVE-6 to maxis avenue and my network layouts keeps looking like a baloon :\
Ave 6 with normal road:
(https://scontent-a-gru.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/q90/s480x480/10455757_579823948805412_9139487190929561223_n.jpg)
Ave 6 with street:
(https://scontent-a-gru.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/q91/s480x480/983716_579825058805301_2430737880999685955_n.jpg)
Thanks for answering me :D
The problem with that is that there are three lanes terminating, but only two lanes to merge into. What would be supposed to happen with the middle lane traffic? I'm afraid, that's the reason why those intersections don't exist.
For the same reason, the RD-6, OWR-4, and OWR-5 also lack Road, Street, and One-Way Road (OWR-2) ending T-intersections like that. The OWR-5 would be especially messy, as you'd be trying to merge 5 lanes into 2 at an intersection. ??? OWR-5 can't end at some dual-tile networks, even, including Avenue, RD-4 and TLA-5, as there's just nowhere logical for traffic to go. I took lane configuration into account when deciding what networks got what T-intersections. There's a few that I seem to recall having some non-functioning "vestigial" intersections, simply so that wider override networks with the proper number of lanes can latch onto them.
-Alex
I've understood why AVE-6 don't have RD-2/OWR-2 T-intersections and I 100% agree with you guys, but I've tried to do an AVE-6 T-intersections with some NWM 3-4 lanes roads/OWRs and it's still not compatible with it :<
I've taken some pics:
T-intersection With TLA-3 (I'm not sure about TLA-3 because I still consider this as a 2 lane road :S):
(https://scontent-b-gru.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9/10401407_583998335054640_4362436969883831334_n.jpg)
T-intersection With ARD-3:
(https://scontent-b-gru.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9/10403465_583998965054577_9206216654438055696_n.jpg)
T-intersection With NRD-4:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10552570_583998378387969_4967227443619266335_n.jpg)
T-intersection With OWR-3:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10392490_583998991721241_661248960341384816_n.jpg)
If I had at least one of these T-intersections, it would make my life a lot easier :)
And the textures of AVE-6 T-crossing with RD-4 and RD-6 doesn't allign correctly, it's functional (what really matters), but it looks a bit weird :(
T-intersection With RD-4:
(https://scontent-b-gru.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10525965_583998875054586_4856442007054901863_n.jpg)
T-intersection With RD-6:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10527645_583998448387962_8303622384391485673_n.jpg)
Same thing applies to TLA-7 T-intersections
I love using NWM on my cities, it's an awesome tool that applies that kind of realism and beauty that the Maxis original networks lacks.
Thanks for the attention :D :D :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw298%2Fjoshua43214%2Fjustwrong.jpg&hash=5bc1348e2fd46f8a27ef48732bda5f288f34c33d)
Now don't get me wrong. I love the fact that I have a work around for this.
Any idea if we will ever see something that is actually correct for this? I would just retexture it myself if it was a lot, I have no idea how to retexture a puzzle piece. If someone can point me in the right direction I will see if I can get rail textures on them and give them to the NAM team.
Rail and NWM seem to just about impossible to do together.
Improving that side of things is on the list. The reason it hasn't been done yet is that we're transitioning away from static puzzle pieces, and you won't see a Rail Viaduct/NWM crossing until the Rail Viaducts are draggable. No idea when that'll happen, but it's been planned ever since the original RAM project (precursor to the modern RRW) was started.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 09, 2014, 12:42:29 PM
Improving that side of things is on the list. The reason it hasn't been done yet is that we're transitioning away from static puzzle pieces, and you won't see a Rail Viaduct/NWM crossing until the Rail Viaducts are draggable. No idea when that'll happen, but it's been planned ever since the original RAM project (precursor to the modern RRW) was started.
-Alex
I love draggable, draggable rules. I love flex, flex rules.
My issue with draggable sums up with a single pic
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw298%2Fjoshua43214%2FBose-Aug28331407642300.jpg&hash=9474c7d1c4528d367d954c8d568dd20b8cd74949)
This is the 7.5m avenue ramp from the 7.5m Draggable Elevated Road Viaduct ring. The MIS ramps are old style ramps rather than flex ramps, the flex ramps tend to be very unstable close to overpasses.
Wound up having to use 15m static puzzle pieces. I would honestly trade all the draggable in the world for 7.5m puzzle pieces, Especially for rail. Rail tends to get shoehorned into and around freeway interchanges where stability is at the worst.
Puzzle pieces work pretty much all the time. Life with out puzzle pieces would be much sadder. Especially if we have no diagonal starters for when stuff deconstructs between smooth curves.
Anyway, is there a resource on how to retexture puzzle pieces? This should be easier than some other projects, the pathing is all done, and the part itself works fine, just has the wrong appearance. I will take a shot at the NWM rail FLUPS as well. I have a whole region I am just starting on, and I plan to use a lot of rail and NWM, not being able to have them cross is going to be painful
Some of the FLEX/draggable stuff is still in an early state, and the hardest thing to get right is adjacency situations, where one item butts up against another. The way some of the FLEX stuff was rolled out, as part of the (infamous) NAM 31.0 release has probably given people a skewed impression. It's not a perfect solution yet, but further development in this direction stands the best chance of solving many of the long-standing issues that exist with the status quo, where people complain that the mod is too complex, and yet simultaneously request new features.
Continuing on the established puzzle piece path just exacerbates this problem, especially when crosslinkage comes into play. If we were to make 7.5m Viaduct puzzle pieces, in order to account for all possible orientations and height levels of RHW that these viaducts might cross, we'd need about 100 puzzle pieces (25 networks to cross--29 if we were to go ahead with the 12S and 10C). NWM crossings? 13 networks there to cross, so there's another 52. If we add elevated NWM networks, there's at least another 40 (some of the NWM networks don't make sense to elevate). We're at about 192 over/underpass puzzle pieces now, and we haven't covered Maxis networks or other NAM features, which will push the L1 viaduct-over-X (or under-X) total up to close to 350. There might also be some weird adjacency situation that someone finds where the puzzle pieces are somehow inadequate, which leads to requests for some exotic fillers.
Going the draggable route, however, all those situations can, in theory, be taken care of with a single starter (two, if one adds a diagonal starter). The goal is to get things to the point where requests for static PP versions of FLEX items are as uncommon as requests for more MHW interchanges (which used to be the #1 requested item before the RHW was stabilized). In theory, going FLEX/Draggable shifts the construction burden more onto the developers' shoulders, but with the absurd number of puzzle pieces, it evens out.
As far as retexturing something, you'd just need to know the Instance ID of the piece, and the Instance IDs of the textures you're planning to use. With that info, you can pull up the S3d model in the Reader, and change the textures in the Mats tab.
-Alex
Ya, I understand the issue, and I also believe that the NAM team is doing the right thing focusing on draggable. It's hard enough getting volunteers to work for free when they get more complaints than gratitude, without asking them to make hundreds of new puzzle pieces.
I tried to change the textures in the Reader - no luck. I loosely followed the tutorial on puzzle piece making to get me in the right general area. The change shows up in Reader (though the bridge looks funky since it is El Rail), but the rail textures do not show up in game. No idea what the problem is, probably something simple. I am using RRW if that makes a difference. I just used the texture navigator to find the rail textures, and copied the same zoom level instance id into the SC3 file for the El Rail overpass.
Looked at retexturing the rail viaducts with NWM, but gave up when I saw how many models I would have to do. I would need them to be separate pieces from the NAM ones anyway since I need the default NAM pieces as well. This is probably the better place to start anyway since the rail viaducts set is so complete. I just wanted to avoid any network capacity issues since NWM has substantially higher caps than roads/aves/etc. I suppose I could just start on it and do it in my spare time, I would probably only do the most common stuff.
Any suggestions on where I went wrong would be appreciated (I probably made some common newbie mistake).
Draggable, draggable, draggable. Even the default Maxis made stuff had it's fair share of non draggable items,
Gave up after seeing how much it would take? Considering for every network the traffic devs did here or are still progressing, more intersections/bridges, textures, and paths had to be accounted for, so that's why these situations have to be understood. From my experience certain textures only show up with hardware enabled as opposed to software. All I know is, yeah you do that, it will take a while, and a lot of trial and error. So many years Alex has been going on at this, and I can't believe actually went along with changing his appearance so many times.
Oh I understand the issue quite well. I am actually a molecular geneticist and a computational biologist, some aspects can not be automated and must be done by hand. I am used to working with stuff orders of magnitude larger that also have to undergo rigorous peer review, and 9 times out of 10 it the research is a dead end.
I appreciate the phenomenal amount of work that goes into creating a set of puzzle pieces more than most people do.
I am happy to take a shot at this and share it when I am done.
It is not a hardware/software texture issue, the textures were simply not affected in game.
I just need someone to point me in the right direction, not remind me of how mysterious and difficult it is.
Hi there,
I have a short question. Are there Tuleps for the elevated Rail in avenue? Thanks
-MG
Quote from: joshua43214 on August 13, 2014, 08:57:59 AM
It is not a hardware/software texture issue, the textures were simply not affected in game.
I just need someone to point me in the right direction, not remind me of how mysterious and difficult it is.
There's a few different things that can go wrong. I'm sorry for starting with something so low-level, but just to double-check, you've pressed the 'Save S3D' button before moving away from an S3D file didn't you? It's a common error I make myself.
Aside from that, all I can think of is file ordering issues. Make sure your override file is in the Z__NAM folder so it overrides the default one correctly. Failing that, I can whip up what you want relatively quickly.
Quote from: mg1990 on August 15, 2014, 09:49:40 AM
Are there Tuleps for the elevated Rail in avenue? Thanks
Nope.
Sorry for the really slow reply, got terribly sidetracked...
Quote from: jdenm8 on August 15, 2014, 07:56:36 PM
Make sure your override file is in the Z__NAM folder so it overrides the default one correctly. Failing that, I can whip up what you want relatively quickly.
This is probably the problem. I had (mindlessly) put the mod in my joshua43214 folder along with my other custom mods.
Thank you very much for the offer. I am going to try and get this to work, since I would also like to convert some of the other NAM curve pieces to RHW-4 for 2 lane ramps (the 45 degree pieces to not fit together properly and are too big for ramps). Tighter curves in dragable will probably not be stable enough, so puzzle pieces are the way to go. Rather than waste NAM team time with the request, I would rather make them up myself, and if they come out well I can just donate them to NAM to do with as they wish.
I am currently up the steep part of the Python learning curve, so I am not sure when I will get back to this, hopefully later this week one my current work project takes proper shape.
Quote from: joshua43214 on August 24, 2014, 11:29:45 AM
Tighter curves in dragable will probably not be stable enough, so puzzle pieces are the way to go. Rather than waste NAM team time with the request, I would rather make them up myself, and if they come out well I can just donate them to NAM to do with as they wish.
Never underestimate the power of draggable components. ;)
Spot the new feature... (Please note that this feature will not be released in NAM 33.). Those tree's are there to help disguise the new feature and they will disappear when I zone over them and then develop those zones ;). Also check out an updated, zoomed out pic here (http://i.imgur.com/tsMRoEq.jpg).
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FBW2tHHs.png&hash=d202d50c39b4fef65d03cbfa43417eff310259e3)
-Billy
Is this a 6 lane road overpass?! Would be awesome to use it in my cities! Wow &apls
Nice 6-lane overpass! Why won't it be released in NAM 33, though? :(
OTOH, does that mean we can expect NAM 33 soon? Hmmm....
Quote from: compdude787 on October 02, 2014, 09:23:14 AM
Nice 6-lane overpass! Why won't it be released in NAM 33, though? :(
OTOH, does that mean we can expect NAM 33 soon? Hmmm....
Not necessarily. We still haven't decided on a new NWM range since we're giving the NWM a P57-esque treatment (possibly dubbed P51, moving the NWM from the current 0x5100####-0x5120#### to a higher range), so a lot of stuff would end up shifting around still.
Plus, we're missing one key developer: Alex. From what I know, he's really busy and it could be that way for a while.
As it stands, we're down to just me, Daniel, Markus, Stephen, and a few others popping in and out taking the brunt of the immediate devwork for what is already slated for NAM Thirty-Three. What's known for sure is that it's almost all RHWdev. If you think that we're leaving out everything else, please realise that RHW is our testbed for implementing new dev strategies, and once it's shown to work for RHW, it becomes applicable to everything else. The only reason we have elevated Road, One Way Road, and Avenue viaducts that are draggable is because they were based off of RHW, both by models and by code.
- Ganaram I.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on October 02, 2014, 01:22:03 PM
Quote from: compdude787 on October 02, 2014, 09:23:14 AM
Nice 6-lane overpass! Why won't it be released in NAM 33, though? :(
OTOH, does that mean we can expect NAM 33 soon? Hmmm....
Not necessarily. We still haven't decided on a new NWM range since we're giving the NWM a P57-esque treatment (possibly dubbed P51, moving the NWM from the current 0x5100####-0x5120#### to a higher range), so a lot of stuff would end up shifting around still.
Plus, we're missing one key developer: Alex. From what I know, he's really busy and it could be that way for a while.
As it stands, we're down to just me, Daniel, Markus, Stephen, and a few others popping in and out taking the brunt of the immediate devwork for what is already slated for NAM Thirty-Three. What's known for sure is that it's almost all RHWdev. If you think that we're leaving out everything else, please realise that RHW is our testbed for implementing new dev strategies, and once it's shown to work for RHW, it becomes applicable to everything else. The only reason we have elevated Road, One Way Road, and Avenue viaducts that are draggable is because they were based off of RHW, both by models and by code.
- Ganaram I.
Oh, I see how RHW is the cutting edge for NAM developments. You start with the most complicated NAM component first and then bring it all over to other parts of the NAM. :) Either way, the work you've done with making more ramps draggable (and adding some new ones in the process) and re-doing the FlexFlys is enough to make me be really looking forward to NAM 33.
I'll just clarify why I put the "won't be released in 33" stuff. Currently that is the only working set of pieces across the board in terms of EL-NWM. Even with my plan of doing 6 networks (AVE-2, ARD-3, NRD-4, RD-4, RD-6 & AVE-6) I haven't even done more than about 6 pieces, still in static puzzle piece form. While I don't have to create new models, I do have to switch out textures, sometimes fool with the s3d's in the reader, and then place them in the right IID range. Also I am currently the only one working on this (everyone is busier with much harder stuff :P) and to do 6 networks across two levels with full cross links? That's gonna take me a long time to do and while I don't know when the next release is unless it's more than about 6 months, this won't make it in (yes even us NAMites hope don't know when we release it). My current timeframe that I estimate is about 7-8 months (unless RL shows up with something especially big) because I have school for 4-5 of those months where my output is severely limited.
Thanks for reading that block of text,
-Billy
Ah, I see. Take your time. For now, it's not a big deal to convert to RHW in order to make a 6-lane overpass...
Quote from: compdude787 on October 02, 2014, 02:09:26 PM
Oh, I see how RHW is the cutting edge for NAM developments. You start with the most complicated NAM component first and then bring it all over to other parts of the NAM. :) Either way, the work you've done with making more ramps draggable (and adding some new ones in the process) and re-doing the FlexFlys is enough to make me be really looking forward to NAM 33.
Starting with the RHW and using it as the "test market" for new concepts has worked out quite well, especially as it has a reputation as a component for more advanced users. Many of the NAM projects everyone knows and loves today are the result of solutions to challenges faced by the RHW project--the NWM and RAM/RHW are a couple examples, and TuLEPs originated as a by-product of trying to add SPUI functionality to the RHW.
The FLEXFlys, unfortunately, only have a slim chance of making it into NAM 33. We're looking at a couple options that would massively optimize the whole system (and substantially shrink the required amount of code), but it's going to require scrapping what's been done so far (the models, which we originally script-generated, and a small amount of prototype code I did), and with our current RL loads (mine especially--just started a second adjunct professor gig, and am running for office), it's not likely to happen until at least NAM 34.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on October 03, 2014, 12:14:30 AM
... and I am running for the office of the president of the United States
Fixed!
Run Tarkus Run!
Quote from: joshua43214 on October 03, 2014, 11:03:18 AM
Quote from: Tarkus on October 03, 2014, 12:14:30 AM
... and I am running for the office of the president of the United States
Fixed!
Run Tarkus Run!
In all seriousness, which public office
are you running for? Usually, presidential candidates are people who have been in politics for quite a while already. I hope you can continue to be active in the community and being on the NAM team.
Quote from: joshua43214 on October 03, 2014, 11:03:18 AM
Quote from: Tarkus on October 03, 2014, 12:14:30 AM
... and I am running for the office of the president of the United States
Fixed!
Run Tarkus Run!
You're off by 7-12+ years; the minimum age for US president is 35, and the youngest presidents ever were only in their 40s.
Congratulations and good luck on your RL endeavors, Alex, even though it will be hard to see your presence here diminished. :thumbsup: Whatever you do run for, maybe you'll get a chance to improve the transportation infrastructure in your area. My area's roads aren't too bad, but I've seen quite a few places that could use some help from the NAM Team.
Quote from: compdude787 on October 03, 2014, 11:46:08 AM
In all seriousness, which public office are you running for? Usually, presidential candidates are people who have been in politics for quite a while already. I hope you can continue to be active in the community and being on the NAM team.
I'm running for city council in my hometown (population approaching 25,000). I'm one of 7 candidates (including 2 three-term incumbents) going for 3 seats. I have no interest in a presidential run or any involvement in federal-level politics, though. ::)
With respect to my future NAM activities, I'd like to keep at it in some capacity, but I don't know that I'll ever be back to the same level of activity I was from the NAM 21-32 era. Currently, my modding time is pretty much restricted to late at night, and as busy as RL has been keeping me, I've often been too exhausted to wrangle RULs and the like when I have had the time.
Quote from: metarvo on October 03, 2014, 06:20:01 PM
Whatever you do run for, maybe you'll get a chance to improve the transportation infrastructure in your area. My area's roads aren't too bad, but I've seen quite a few places that could use some help from the NAM Team.
As you might guess, that's a huge part of my platform. ;D Our road network here is a mess, and the state DOT and county road department have some dubious ideas for improving the main north-south highway through town.
-Alex
Finally, a real traffic engineer on the council, I hope. Best wishes.
Regarding NWM transitions: I've found Road to ARD-3 and Road to NDR-4 . Is there one of AVE-4 to ARD-3 / RD4 to ARD-3 / NDR-4 to ARD-3 ? (Planned?) These would be very useful to connect to the NWM-roundabouts.
The only transition to NDR-4 I could find is from road; AVE-4 to NDR-4 or RD-4 to NDR-4 would certainly be helpful. Could it be a planned surprise for the next NAM?
Greetings for your entrance in politics, Alex!! &apls &apls &apls
I hope you should not make too many compromises :-[ to improve roads in your area or extricate yourself from the palace intrigues or bureaucracy and obviously that you could spend some time with your friends in and out of the SimCity community! ;)
PS.: Happy birthday for the last October 15th
Quote from: Tarkus on October 03, 2014, 11:32:28 PM
Quote from: compdude787 on October 03, 2014, 11:46:08 AM
In all seriousness, which public office are you running for? Usually, presidential candidates are people who have been in politics for quite a while already. I hope you can continue to be active in the community and being on the NAM team.
I'm running for city council in my hometown (population approaching 25,000). I'm one of 7 candidates (including 2 three-term incumbents) going for 3 seats. I have no interest in a presidential run or any involvement in federal-level politics, though. ::)
With respect to my future NAM activities, I'd like to keep at it in some capacity, but I don't know that I'll ever be back to the same level of activity I was from the NAM 21-32 era. Currently, my modding time is pretty much restricted to late at night, and as busy as RL has been keeping me, I've often been too exhausted to wrangle RULs and the like when I have had the time.
Quote from: metarvo on October 03, 2014, 06:20:01 PM
Whatever you do run for, maybe you'll get a chance to improve the transportation infrastructure in your area. My area's roads aren't too bad, but I've seen quite a few places that could use some help from the NAM Team.
As you might guess, that's a huge part of my platform. ;D Our road network here is a mess, and the state DOT and county road department have some dubious ideas for improving the main north-south highway through town.
-Alex
Have all the votes been counted?
Quote from: roadgeek on November 07, 2014, 05:53:36 PM
Have all the votes been counted?
Most of them have. Oregon's a vote-by-mail state, and quite a few folks (particularly in the more populous counties) will wait until the last minute, quite literally. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be on city council this election. The two incumbents and the well-connected middle school teacher appear to have won the three seats. They did not get a mandate, however, as I did manage to get a tick more than 10% of the vote, and no one got more than about 17%. I did, however, raise considerable attention to some serious issues facing the city. And as I'm not on council but gained name recognition, I don't have to bite my tongue, and can be
really outspoken now. ?$%kar&%h
My two adjunct professor gigs are going to keep me pretty busy with RL, though I am easing back into SC4.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on November 08, 2014, 01:06:06 AM
Most of them have. Oregon's a vote-by-mail state, and quite a few folks (particularly in the more populous counties) will wait until the last minute, quite literally. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be on city council this election. The two incumbents and the well-connected middle school teacher appear to have won the three seats. They did not get a mandate, however, as I did manage to get a tick more than 10% of the vote, and no one got more than about 17%. I did, however, raise considerable attention to some serious issues facing the city. And as I'm not on council but gained name recognition, I don't have to bite my tongue, and can be really outspoken now. ?$%kar&%h
My two adjunct professor gigs are going to keep me pretty busy with RL, though I am easing back into SC4.
-Alex
Well, that figures. I suppose there is a silver lining in all that. Their loss is our gain. I was getting a little worried that we might never see v33 /wrrd%&. Good luck on addressing all those issues facing your city!
Dan
I was wondering how many curves and FA transitions from RHW 6-C, 6-S, and 8-S, and 10-S, will be converted to curves and FA transitions for AVE-6, OWR-3, OWR-4, and OWR-5, in NAM 33.
Quote from: roadgeek on November 09, 2014, 06:32:58 PM
I was wondering how many curves and FA transitions from RHW 6-C, 6-S, and 8-S, and 10-S, will be converted to curves and FA transitions for AVE-6, OWR-3, OWR-4, and OWR-5, in NAM 33.
Well, that's easier said than done, because the NWM networks don't really line up exactly with the corresponding RHW networks. Plus, the OWR networks don't have shoulders like the RHW does.
Quote from: roadgeek on November 09, 2014, 06:32:58 PM
I was wondering how many curves and FA transitions from RHW 6-C, 6-S, and 8-S, and 10-S, will be converted to curves and FA transitions for AVE-6, OWR-3, OWR-4, and OWR-5, in NAM 33.
Zero. Fractional Angle NWM stuff has been discussed, but the NWM plans in general are in flux right now, and
compdude787 also brings up another issue.
-Alex
FA width transitions also bring up two other problems:
- The sheer amount of them. You need TWICE the number of transitions to cover all FARHW setups compared to the orthagonal width transitions (diagonal would require the same amount.
- We don't have diagonal transitions yet. Why even bother with fractional angled transitions then?
Quote from: MandelSoft on November 10, 2014, 01:35:58 AM
FA width transitions also bring up two other problems:
- The sheer amount of them. You need TWICE the number of transitions to cover all FARHW setups compared to the orthagonal width transitions (diagonal would require the same amount.
- We don't have diagonal transitions yet. Why even bother with fractional angled transitions then?
Perhaps I should have said FA curves. I am not aware of any existing RHW FA width transitions. One can only dream. &Thk/(
Dan
Hey all. I'm having a problem here with neighbor connections and NWM.
I have a RD-6 that I want to connect to the next city. So I drag both of the RD-6 sections all the way to the side, connection made on both, both arrows pointing towards the neighbor. I place the RD-6 neighbor connection on top of the road at the edge. The traffic info cursor looks to be working. Cars, buses, peds, freight trucks, all passing over the RD-6 to the neighbor city.
Now here's where it gets interesting. I go to the neighbor city, place a starter piece a pretty good distance away from the edge. Drag the RD-6 to where the normal roads turn into RD-6, plop the RD-6 neighbor connection piece on top again, and the only thing that comes through is bus traffic and ped traffic (at about the same numbers that it said it was going through on the other side. The car traffic is almost completely gone. 2000+ car traffic in the first city then it drops to 3 car traffic in the 2nd city. So this has me scratching my head.
Did I place the pieces wrong? The only tile that seems to have cars on it is the neighbor connection piece itself (the cars are traveling to the commercial buildings touching the neighbor connection piece), but past that, only bus and ped traffic can travel.
Is this normal? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Any help at all would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Quote from: bweazel on December 10, 2014, 07:49:23 AM
Hey all. I'm having a problem here with neighbor connections and NWM.
I have a RD-6 that I want to connect to the next city. So I drag both of the RD-6 sections all the way to the side, connection made on both, both arrows pointing towards the neighbor. I place the RD-6 neighbor connection on top of the road at the edge. The traffic info cursor looks to be working. Cars, buses, peds, freight trucks, all passing over the RD-6 to the neighbor city.
Now here's where it gets interesting. I go to the neighbor city, place a starter piece a pretty good distance away from the edge. Drag the RD-6 to where the normal roads turn into RD-6, plop the RD-6 neighbor connection piece on top again, and the only thing that comes through is bus traffic and ped traffic (at about the same numbers that it said it was going through on the other side. The car traffic is almost completely gone. 2000+ car traffic in the first city then it drops to 3 car traffic in the 2nd city. So this has me scratching my head.
Did I place the pieces wrong? The only tile that seems to have cars on it is the neighbor connection piece itself (the cars are traveling to the commercial buildings touching the neighbor connection piece), but past that, only bus and ped traffic can travel.
Is this normal? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Any help at all would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Unfortunately, this is an issue from Simcity 4 that probably can be solved only if EA gives the Simcity 4 source code to the community, but they won't do it because they're the worst gaming company nowadays and deserves the "third golden poo" for ruining games like Spore.
It seems to happen when we have too much neighborhood connections "close" to each other, try to demolish a neighborhood connection that isn't the RD-6, the numbers might change for RD-6, but the bug will affect the connection you'd destroy.
Quote from: fefenc on December 10, 2014, 11:59:22 AM
Unfortunately, this is an issue from Simcity 4 that probably can be solved only if EA gives the Simcity 4 source code to the community, but they won't do it because they're the worst gaming company nowadays and deserves the "third golden poo" for ruining games like Spore.
It seems to happen when we have too much neighborhood connections "close" to each other, try to demolish a neighborhood connection that isn't the RD-6, the numbers might change for RD-6, but the bug will affect the connection you'd destroy.
Other than a normal road about 30 tiles away from the RD-6 NC I'm trying to get working, there are no other NC's on this side of the map. Are you sure this is a common problem? I've searched a lot and I cannot find anyone else complaining about this. If NCs don't work for any roads larger than 1 square.... then why even have them included with NAM? That's why I'm thinking it must be a problem with my set up, or it must be a problem with the way I'm laying the NC tiles.
Quote from: bweazel on December 10, 2014, 01:55:10 PM
Quote from: fefenc on December 10, 2014, 11:59:22 AM
Unfortunately, this is an issue from Simcity 4 that probably can be solved only if EA gives the Simcity 4 source code to the community, but they won't do it because they're the worst gaming company nowadays and deserves the "third golden poo" for ruining games like Spore.
It seems to happen when we have too much neighborhood connections "close" to each other, try to demolish a neighborhood connection that isn't the RD-6, the numbers might change for RD-6, but the bug will affect the connection you'd destroy.
Other than a normal road about 30 tiles away from the RD-6 NC I'm trying to get working, there are no other NC's on this side of the map. Are you sure this is a common problem? I've searched a lot and I cannot find anyone else complaining about this. If NCs don't work for any roads larger than 1 square.... then why even have them included with NAM? That's why I'm thinking it must be a problem with my set up, or it must be a problem with the way I'm laying the NC tiles.
It happens a lot with me when I use too much connections a bit closer to each other. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I destroy one of the connections, the simulation fixes where I want to fix it in exchange of glitching the one where I destroyed. Try to destroy the connections 30 tiles away from your RD-6 and see if you have a subway connection closer to your RD-6 and destroy it. Other than that, I'm stuck with you regarding this problem :X
Quote from: fefenc on December 10, 2014, 11:59:22 AM
Unfortunately, this is an issue from Simcity 4 that probably can be solved only if EA gives the Simcity 4 source code to the community, but they won't do it because they're the worst gaming company nowadays and deserves the "third golden poo" for ruining games like Spore.
In the case of Sim City, EA has a vested interest in trying to keep Sim City 4 inferior to the new Sim City game as much as possible, or else no one would go out and buy the new game, which imo, still has a lot to be desired when it comes to city size and entrance/exit ramp aesthetics, even with the new UDON mod.
Quote from: roadgeek on December 17, 2014, 08:21:13 PM
Quote from: fefenc on December 10, 2014, 11:59:22 AM
Unfortunately, this is an issue from Simcity 4 that probably can be solved only if EA gives the Simcity 4 source code to the community, but they won't do it because they're the worst gaming company nowadays and deserves the "third golden poo" for ruining games like Spore.
In the case of Sim City, EA has a vested interest in trying to keep Sim City 4 inferior to the new Sim City game as much as possible, or else no one would go out and buy the new game, which imo, still has a lot to be desired when it comes to city size and entrance/exit ramp aesthetics, even with the new UDON mod.
The flaw in your argument is thus: SC4 is the superior city-building simulation. It may be older and have some unpatched bugs that we (still) haven't been able to fix, because nobody has been crazy enough to decompile and fix the source code, but in many ways it is the superior product.
Quote from: dragonshardz on January 07, 2015, 08:05:27 PM
The flaw in your argument is thus: SC4 is the superior city-building simulation. It may be older and have some unpatched bugs that we (still) haven't been able to fix, because nobody has been crazy enough to decompile and fix the source code, but in many ways it is the superior product.
Perhaps I should have said that they have a vested interest in not allowing improvements that could rival their product. Which one is superior is somewhat of a judgement call. If the new UDON Mod can improve highway to freeway transitions, avenue to OWR transitions, entrance and exit ramp transitions, and height transitions, it would tilt the scales in favor of the new game. The new game doesn't suffer from grid restrictions, or diagonal/FA intersection or bridge issues.
EDIT: I might also add that there are no issues with Flex-Fly in the new game either. In fact, you can flex fly to any angle you choose. You don't even have to flex over orthogonal. You can flex over diagonal or Fractional of any road or highway type. You can even Flex over another curve, or have multiple layered bridges. I sometimes wonder why more modders don't just move on to improving the new game, and just forget about this one.
Quote from: roadgeek on January 09, 2015, 10:24:20 AM
I sometimes wonder why more modders don't just move on to improving the new game, and just forget about this one.
There's a few reasons for that. First of all, there's only two NAM Team members who own SC2013, and they aren't developers, nor do they play it with any frequency. While the price has gone down on that game considerably in recent months, most of us aren't the type who buy games just to mod them. I count myself in that camp. It's the same reason you don't really see any of us modding CXL or CiM. And in all honesty, I don't know that SC2013 or CXL really "compete" with SC4 all that much. That's not to say one is superior over the others, but more that while they might seem outwardly rather similar, all being city-simulation games, they're actually very different experiences. Virtually all the SC2013 and CXL modders are people who had little to no involvement with SC4 modding, and those SC4 folks who have dabbled in modding those games have quickly come back to SC4, or move onto something completely unrelated. I suspect Minecraft has sucked up a lot more SC4 players than any of the other city-builders designed to "compete" with SC4.
Finally, having followed just what the limitations are of SC2013 modding, even with all the apparent improvements that UDON has allowed, the prospect of truly getting rid of the "dead space" around the city tiles in the regions (let alone of getting new regions) is basically nil. I have played the demo, and while I did enjoy my brief time with it, I got the sense that it wouldn't really hold my interest much beyond that, especially with how the zoning system works. I respect what the SC2013 modders have done, but I don't really have any interest in purchasing the game, let alone spending my free time modding it, especially if people imply that I should move over to it just because it's "newer".
-Alex
Not to mention the fact that 10 years worth of modding is a lot of work to "just forget about." Some company could release a perfect successor to SC4 and I think we'd still hesitate to drop all the projects still going on behind the scenes here.
Take ARMA for example. ARMA 3 has been out for over a year, considered a great game, but tons of people continue to play ARMA 2 for the mods (DayZ, etc.) There's even been some SC2k and 3k revival threads over at Simtrop recently. People don't "just forget about" great games because they are old.
Also those SC13 graphics are still way too cartoon-y they remind me of freakin' Zoo Tycoon 2 I mean where's the texture detail I honestly prefer the 2.5D of many other games.
The irony about Zoo Tycoon 2 is that I, 1, tried playing it with mods, and 2, tried modding it myself. The level of modding was on par with using the Reader to, say, increase the capacity of a transit station, and that's exactly what I did: increase the max number of zoo guests.
And I wanna bring up something that I just made up last week: procrastocompletionism. (Yes, procrastination and completionism.) Even if I slack off with SC4 and leave it for, say, Minecraft, there's always something in there that draws me back. Recently I had a few dreams that almost made me wanna play Runescape again, but with SC4, there's always something that draws me back to mod it. That's mostly because of my belief that I have an understanding of NAM development that is so strong and rich that no one else can understand and I'm the only one who can explain it to anyone; not even other NAM Team Members can understand me sometimes. (Though this "accompanies" the "belief" that I "might" "have" "some" "hint" of "autism" "in" "me", but that's "another" "story" that I "don't" wanna "get into".) I'm the only one who can see patterns out of things where patterns don't otherwise exist; dumping that knowledge means that everything would fall into an organisational black hole. My purpose is to make sense out of something that doesn't.
That and complete a long-term personal goal of mine, which is to make a new SC4 UI and/or make a "unified"-"ish" texture set.
(Runescape's a bit of an oddball since it was the first real game I ever played, real in the sense that it exposed me to the magicbane of online gaming and showed how weak the computer I had at the time really was. Zoo Tycoon 2 was because I was bored one day. Recently, I played FATE but with two of its expansion packs, and Gemcraft Chapter 2 to see if there was a new update. None of them, except maybe Runescape, have the same magic that SC4 has on me.)
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on January 21, 2015, 09:18:32 PM
(...) Even if I slack off with SC4 and leave it for, say, Minecraft, there's always something in there that draws me back. Recently I had a few dreams that almost made me wanna play Runescape again, but with SC4, there's always something that draws me back to mod it. (...)
Ohh if I know that felling :D so many times, so many times... :satisfied:
Quote from: Tarkus on January 21, 2015, 04:45:10 PM
Quote from: roadgeek on January 09, 2015, 10:24:20 AM
I sometimes wonder why more modders don't just move on to improving the new game, and just forget about this one.
There's a few reasons for that. First of all, there's only two NAM Team members who own SC2013, and they aren't developers, nor do they play it with any frequency. While the price has gone down on that game considerably in recent months, most of us aren't the type who buy games just to mod them. I count myself in that camp. It's the same reason you don't really see any of us modding CXL or CiM. And in all honesty, I don't know that SC2013 or CXL really "compete" with SC4 all that much. That's not to say one is superior over the others, but more that while they might seem outwardly rather similar, all being city-simulation games, they're actually very different experiences. Virtually all the SC2013 and CXL modders are people who had little to no involvement with SC4 modding, and those SC4 folks who have dabbled in modding those games have quickly come back to SC4, or move onto something completely unrelated. I suspect Minecraft has sucked up a lot more SC4 players than any of the other city-builders designed to "compete" with SC4.
Finally, having followed just what the limitations are of SC2013 modding, even with all the apparent improvements that UDON has allowed, the prospect of truly getting rid of the "dead space" around the city tiles in the regions (let alone of getting new regions) is basically nil. I have played the demo, and while I did enjoy my brief time with it, I got the sense that it wouldn't really hold my interest much beyond that, especially with how the zoning system works. I respect what the SC2013 modders have done, but I don't really have any interest in purchasing the game, let alone spending my free time modding it, especially if people imply that I should move over to it just because it's "newer".
-Alex
Not that I imagine this an appropriate thread to continue such discussion, but my 0.02 cents......
Personally I've considered many times, even recently, to purchase SC13. The most recent of which after reading even yet more information (& reviews) available about the game it just does not garner my interest enough to warrant buying the game let alone spend any time on it. I got into SC4 first & foremost to play & enjoy, because of the reviews; & from there gained an interest into modding (& programming) for the game. Despite SC4s shortcomings SC4 has kept my interest/intrigue because of the underlying simulation. Something which I believe is lacking from SC13 & why I'll never buy it. Some gamers out there don't buy games just because they're made; just because you built it doesn't mean they will come ;). I'm sure SC13 has its pros but it's just not for me & I'm sure many others out there feel the same, not just about SC13 but SC4 as well.
Quote from: GDO29Anagram on January 21, 2015, 09:18:32 PM
(...) leave it for, say, Minecraft, (...)
::) Bought that game for my son and his friend. Now he doesn't want to play Sim City any more. Of course he can't figure out how to keep his cities in the black.
Dear NAM team:
May you regard this opinion and statement with the weight of someone who's been playing this game frequently since it's original release date.
Please don't ever give up on this game, not that you're going to, ever; but as I read in someone recently quoting "I don't know why modders don't move on to the new SimCity?"
Oh, for all the reasons, for every reason, I could write a novel/book on how many reasons there are that this SC4/RH game is so much better than SIMCITY 2013 and CitiesXL.
NAM, RHW, CAM, and a few other (thousand-some!) mods are the best mods available for any game in my opinion. There isn't even anything close. For the city-planning road-builder in us all, this is the only game that even comes CLOSE. There will never be a better Simcity AFAIK, and as far as I can see. I will keep playing this game for most likely another 10 years, atleast. This is one of the most replay-able games there is, with literally limitless design options. Making large road networks and then building your city and watching it all fall into place like clockwork is one of the most satisfying things there is in a game. A sense of accomplishment, not unlike that of building your own house, just... in a game. Please don't ever get discouraged, as folks like myself (even in my 30s) are sitting here drooling over what may come of the next NAM release.
So, all in all, thank-you, thank-you so much for providing what may have already been tens-of-thousands of hours of fun, and what may be many thousands more!
Oh, and while it's on my other-wise positive mind... Simcity 2013 sucks. It's EA and all that is wrong with EA that Need for Speed hasn't already proved to us. SC4 FTW!
--Cheers & Keep up the good work!
Quote from: bobblunderton on January 30, 2015, 12:16:04 AM
Dear NAM team:
May you regard this opinion and statement with the weight of someone who's been playing this game frequently since it's original release date.
Please don't ever give up on this game, not that you're going to, ever; but as I read in someone recently quoting "I don't know why modders don't move on to the new SimCity?"
Oh, for all the reasons, for every reason, I could write a novel/book on how many reasons there are that this SC4/RH game is so much better than SIMCITY 2013 and CitiesXL.
NAM, RHW, CAM, and a few other (thousand-some!) mods are the best mods available for any game in my opinion. There isn't even anything close. For the city-planning road-builder in us all, this is the only game that even comes CLOSE. There will never be a better Simcity AFAIK, and as far as I can see. I will keep playing this game for most likely another 10 years, atleast. This is one of the most replay-able games there is, with literally limitless design options. Making large road networks and then building your city and watching it all fall into place like clockwork is one of the most satisfying things there is in a game. A sense of accomplishment, not unlike that of building your own house, just... in a game. Please don't ever get discouraged, as folks like myself (even in my 30s) are sitting here drooling over what may come of the next NAM release.
So, all in all, thank-you, thank-you so much for providing what may have already been tens-of-thousands of hours of fun, and what may be many thousands more!
Oh, and while it's on my other-wise positive mind... Simcity 2013 sucks. It's EA and all that is wrong with EA that Need for Speed hasn't already proved to us. SC4 FTW!
--Cheers & Keep up the good work!
I totally relate to this. Even though it's on a hiatus right now for half a year, this is the best city builder of them all. The variety, the community, the control. This game proves you don't make a game better with better graphics. I support you fully NAM team. I don't know how the finances are, but I already donated to sc4d and will do so again! This is the one DLC that I'm willing to buy and invest in!
GO NAM! Go SC4D! Go SC4 community!
All/NAM Team,
I agree 100% that the new SC 2013 is a not nearly as good as SC4 and the more than a decade of the NAM Team as made SC4 even better and better. After playing the game for 14 years it is hard to through it all away. I have played Cities XL and the traffic simulator and city realism is jut not there as with SC4. As for SC 2013, I am utterly dis-appointed that Maxis and EA could not incorporate all the wonderful and stupendous creations the entire hard core SC4 players have created and discovered over the last 14 + years of playing this great game.
Please I and more than likely others are begging that the NAM Team and other creators keep the great stuff coming. The only thing that I can see that SC 2013 has over SC4 is no limitations to the grid system. How ever, with imaginative creators have over come the grid in SC4 and create great thing such as overlays that fills in the dead space in the grid.
Thank you again NAM Team and entire SC4 players.
dyoungyn
Quote from: dyoungyn on February 01, 2015, 11:01:45 AM
All/NAM Team,
I agree 100% that the new SC 2013 is a not nearly as good as SC4 and the more than a decade of the NAM Team as made SC4 even better and better....
Just imagine how good the new game could be, if it had the contribution of developers that have contributed to NAM.
It could be slightly less crap?
It could be a fantastic game, maybe every Glassbox limitation would be fixed and maybe it would be twice as good a game as SimCity 4.
But by that time the year would be 2030. Ain't nobody got time for that. The game servers will be taken down in a few years anyway and the game will either be unplayable or change drastically.
Hi there, I dont know if anyone had already asked this, Is there no median or traffic islands on AVE - 6 of the NWM? How can you avoid in having the long TLA-7 median showing through all the lenght of the ave? Also I can't seem to find MAVE 4 and MAVE 6...
There is a median island on the AVE-6. It'll just show up as just whatever terrain you're using in the island (as it's locked in by roads, it won't touch zones and can't have a wealth-level), unless you have an external median mod installed.
Also, the MAVE-4 and MAVE-6 were renamed at least a couple years ago, mainly as people kept confusing MAVE-6 with AVE-6 and it made things messy. They are now known as the RD-4 and RD-6.
-Alex
Tahnks Alex... Sorry I don't know where to post some more questions so I'll just ask... I have installed the NAM and selected reduce OWR Arrows plugins, then I discovered there are 2 files NetworkAddonMod_OneWayRoad_Arrows_Half_Reduction_Plugin and NetworkAddonMod_OneWayRoad_Arrows_Reduction_Plugin my questions is: If I just want arrows appear on intersections which plug in should I remove? I tried every combinations but still havent got the desired effect, as Half reduction makes the arrows kinda transparent and the full reduction eliminates everty single arrow... Also, which is the correct thread to post any type of questions I could have in the future?
New question. I'm having trouble with NWM RD-6 neighbor connection... I did every step in connecting both cities, but only 1 lane is able to transport cars... incoming traffic into both cities only accepts pedestrian traffic... but going traffic is ok, both car and pedestrian... Is there a way to fix this? I would like to post photos of the problem to better understanding but dont know how... Hope you can anser my questions.
The "Half" file converts the arrows to the single arrow, instead of the default double arrow on One-Way Roads, whereas the normal Reduction plugin turns the arrows into "ghost models" that only show up when you hover over the One-Way Road. I don't believe there is a plugin/mod that does exactly what you've described.
The Neighbor Connectors have always acted a bit funky on the NWM, and we have no idea why. They are built exactly like the RHW ones, which work fine. If push comes to shove, temporarily convert the RD-6 to an AVE and back on the other side of the connector. That usually does the trick.
-Alex
hello, i was wandering if anyone can help me....Ive watch hijacky video on using TuLeps and he is able to turn his pieces when its over the road. when I hover my piece over the road it will not let me turn it, so i turn it in the grass, but when i go to plop it it turns itself a different way. does anybody know why this is? I am on level ground just trying to practice using all the RHW stuff.
darn it, i'm not seeing what's happening myself, so i'm going to try to assess your description,
certain circumstances i can't explain, sometimes restrict rotation when building pieces over existing road that is already there, causing you to demolish that stretch of road and do-over in the space where that road was instead
unless its by chance the preview model is facing the wrong way, ending the result of a misdirected tulep, more expert opinion instead of my own may be needed here
Tarkus- I have a question, how wide are the Sim City lanes, or can you give the width of most cars in Sim City 4?
Quote from: skinnykenny6066 on March 06, 2015, 08:32:31 PM
hello, i was wandering if anyone can help me....Ive watch hijacky video on using TuLeps and he is able to turn his pieces when its over the road. when I hover my piece over the road it will not let me turn it, so i turn it in the grass, but when i go to plop it it turns itself a different way. does anybody know why this is? I am on level ground just trying to practice using all the RHW stuff.
This usually happens to me when I build the turn lanes before the intersection. Sometimes you just have to bulldoze the intersection and start from the center.
Quote from: skinnykenny6066 on March 06, 2015, 08:32:31 PM
hello, i was wandering if anyone can help me....Ive watch hijacky video on using TuLeps and he is able to turn his pieces when its over the road. when I hover my piece over the road it will not let me turn it, so i turn it in the grass, but when i go to plop it it turns itself a different way. does anybody know why this is? I am on level ground just trying to practice using all the RHW stuff.
You wouldn't happen to be trying to use Tuleps with RHW would you?
Yes my intersections are all built first I'm using the 6 ln Ave from the nwm... Not sure if this is considered part of the rhw or not... I've tried it on flat ground with nothing on it just the road then the tulep... Hijacky goes so fast on his video lol but I can tell he is turning pieces over the pre existing road... I'm just finding it so difficult to use the tulep but I want that realism in my city... Thanks for all the advice I hope I can figure this out soon
AVE-6 is definitely NWM territory, not RHW. If you're trying to build the TuLEPs over starter pieces (or near them), that would definitely prevent them from being placed properly. Make sure you've got a decent stretch of AVE-6 dragged away from a starter before you try placing them.
The eventual goal with TuLEPs going forward is to kill the puzzle pieces. That won't happen by NAM 33--which is close to completion but suspended in RL-related limbo--but it's a high priority going forward.
And for those wondering about NAM status in the wake of Cities: Skylines, we are indeed still planning to go forward with our SC4 NAM efforts as originally planned. Many of us are intrigued by C:S--there's the sense that C:S might be to SC4 what SC4 was to SC3000, and that Paradox/CO are taking the genre in the right direction. But just as there are people still playing SC3000, we're not abandoning SC4, especially as much as we've invested in it. Any potential forays into C:S modding will be in addition to keeping our SC4 work going.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on March 10, 2015, 03:26:48 PM
And for those wondering about NAM status in the wake of Cities: Skylines, we are indeed still planning to go forward with our SC4 NAM efforts as originally planned. Many of us are intrigued by C:S--there's the sense that C:S might be to SC4 what SC4 was to SC3000, and that Paradox/CO are taking the genre in the right direction. But just as there are people still playing SC3000, we're not abandoning SC4, especially as much as we've invested in it. Any potential forays into C:S modding will be in addition to keeping our SC4 work going.
-Alex
Thank you for making my day :thumbsup:
I have nothing against C:S - I will probably give it a shot one of these days, but I don't see myself giving up on SC4 any time soon - there are just too many wonderful custom creations floating around (and new ones added every day) to just dump the whole thing. I'm looking forward to the new goodies in NAM 33... can't wait!
Good to hear that you guys will continue modding SC4.
For me personally, the shift from SC3000 to SC4 was quick because SC4 was a new game for me and I had never played SC3000 the way I play SC4, that is with loads of mods, city journals, such investment.
If I played SC4 that way, I would be quick to jump to C:S...but at this point C:S would just be a game for me and not the complete package that SC4 is for me right now.
I'm more wary about jumping into the unknown now that I have a cozy SC4 home as opposed to jumping into SC4 when SC3000 was just a game to me.
Plus, NAM and many of the mods for SC4 STILL offer greater realistic looks that C:S has shown so far. Hopefully modding will make it more realistic (of course, it must...we have to remember we are 11 YEARS in on SC4!)
Time to blow of the dust from this Thread :evilgrin:
NWM FlexCurves anyone ;D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi245.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg72%2FEggman121%2FNWM%2520TLA5%2520FlexCurve_zpszm9wcqcy.jpg&hash=edfd8743ef30acd580a1194f6dacb4bd0ca1927e) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/Eggman121/media/NWM%20TLA5%20FlexCurve_zpszm9wcqcy.jpg.html)
This one will have the ability to be overridden to Road 6 as well. The Road 4 will be Flexed as well but won't be able to have the ability to be overridden to other networks due its geometry. The single tile networks will override the Road MRCs and I am thinking of making flex pieces for those as well for ease of use. This is just planning for future editions and depending on timing they may not make it in the next edition.
Keen to hear thoughts ;)
-eggman121
Now that is SWEET $%Grinno$% What would make this even sweater is to see AVE6/7 Flex curves, diagonals and FAR(s). If such a thing existed, then SC4 will so sweet as if were Halloween or Christmas and all those sweet goodies.
:thumbsup:
awesome
It looks great :thumbsup:
That is awesome!
Thanks for all the positive comments :thumbsup:
I think that curves for all the NWM types will be made in due course but for now I have gotten the overrides done for the Road 6
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi245.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg72%2FEggman121%2FNWM%2520Road6%2520FlexCurve%2520Override_zpso8tqvtss.jpg&hash=54c720ea9e0a4b0c46af5b2db2d6255503853eb2) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/Eggman121/media/NWM%20Road6%20FlexCurve%20Override_zpso8tqvtss.jpg.html)
-eggman121
Fantastic!! &apls
Oh, very nice. These were absolutely needed. That 45 degree angle looked a little sharp with these networks. ;)
Kapow, and there it is. GREAT JOB and soo looking forward to more. :o
So awesome!!!! &apls &apls &apls &apls :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
So nice to see NWM picked up again! :popcorn: :popcorn:
This is soo good indeed :) look marvellous.
Just wondering, will you, eventually, pick up SAM to flex it too? %confuso ::)
Yep, we're still working on the NWM behind the scenes. In fact, I just completed my first draggable transition:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54771042/NAM/nwm-ave6-owr3-02.jpg)
Completely BLOWN out of the water. AMAZING and really, really blew me away. Great job.
Great stuff!
Oh goodness! I just drooled again!!! &apls I cannot wait to use that in my cities!
Thanks to MushyMushy graciously providing some textures, a few missing links are missing no more.
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/rhw-08192016-1.jpg)
Also, while I was at it, I finally got this thing to work:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/rhw-08192016-2.jpg)
-Alex
:bnn:
I had been wondering what she was spending all her time on the site doing lately, given that she usually is given to ST instead...
Wow!!! Wooow!!! :bnn: &apls &apls &apls &apls &apls
Is that mean, there will be transition from OWR3 to RHW 6S too, and back?
It looks brilliant! :)
RHW-6 to OWR-3 is already supported iirc.
MIS to OWR-1 - Finally :bnn: 8S - OWR-4 and 10S - OWR-5 will also be useful.
Quote from: Durfsurn on August 19, 2016, 02:29:03 AM
RHW-6 to OWR-3 is already supported iirc.
Ups, I missed that one somehow. Anyway these transitions will be very usefull. &apls &apls &apls
Omg :clap:
Amazing
This looks very good! Can't wait for NAM 36!
Thanks for you amazing work guys!
Thanks, everyone, for the kind words on the transitions. :thumbsup:
Quote from: michae95l on August 20, 2016, 12:28:16 AM
This looks very good! Can't wait for NAM 36!
Though nothing is set in stone at this point, the plan right now is for these to be in NAM 35. Once I get the paths in place, they're basically done.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on August 21, 2016, 12:03:01 AM
Thanks, everyone, for the kind words on the transitions. :thumbsup:
Quote from: michae95l on August 20, 2016, 12:28:16 AM
This looks very good! Can't wait for NAM 36!
Though nothing is set in stone at this point, the plan right now is for these to be in NAM 35. Once I get the paths in place, they're basically done.
-Alex
Sorry, that's me miscounting. When I say NAM 36, I really meant the next NAM, which I now remember to be NAM 35. I just got a little mixed up! ;)
About time I joined the party 8-)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FiFO4mux.jpg&hash=853f665c4e79cf845d42aa004e785c310a68a3c3)
Sweeping Radius 3 ARD 3 network.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FocSa37u.jpg&hash=2edd8c7c3935d101eb8f894edac45a83d017a3a4)
The single tile network so far.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FL6uoKmo.jpg&hash=abd0d6106fb63a07939226e1df80e68ae69a4a42)
The behemoth of a Radius 4 Triple Tile TLA 7
I plan to get most these into shape for the next NAM release free time pending.
Would anyone like to do the pathing or making alternate textures/ Wealth textures?
That would make the curves more probable ;)
-eggman121
Whoo, take that curve easy says Daisy. OUTSTANDING and can't wait for release. Great to FINALLY see this. Question is what does it look like in the Transport view in the Region. The ONLY think I hated about NWM 6/7 is how it looks so thick in white diagonal in the region view. Would love to see this as as it would with all aspects concerned and just as think as AVE4 diagonal would.
Just a simple WOW!!! :D :popcorn: &apls &apls &apls &apls
NAM Team,
Would love to build this interchange only if we had ramps for AVE6 as we do for AVE4. With what I have sen thus far possibly coming out, the ramps would appear to possible could be white like avenues. I love AVE6 as it handles traffic much better than AVE4 and I use Avenues for my county and rural highways as I like to see them as white in the Region view. Again, would to see ramps for AVE6/7.
There is a work around. Simply use RHW-6C to intersect with the main highway. You can transition from that back to AVE-6 by dragging the Ave into the RHW. Then you have the full choice of RHW/MIS pieces to play with.
Yes, this is true and I currently do this. With your AWESOME AVE7 curve will bring new and great features. I personally use the Region view to take a look at my work. Also, I like the looks of Avenues as White. If one is to use RHW6C then it shows up as black. I have always wanted ramps for AVE6/7 like you all created for AVE4 to annotate in my Region local highways maintained by counties/state. As a final note, I am so thankful to the entire NAM Team creating things that if it were not so, then we would not even be having this conversation.
We may revisit the existing Avenue ones at some point, to change them into FLEX-based items (which would allow elevated variants). It's possible we might extend that to Road and OWR at some point, in which case they'd be capable of receiving NWM input. I don't know when that will happen, however, and we'll also have to figure out how things will fit in with eggman121's as-of-yet-unnamed OWR-based expressway prototype. Region Transport View coloration isn't something where we are able to exercise much control--the game does what it wants to do with that, and there's very little we can do to change it.
There are a few smaller NWM-related goodies I am going to be adding for NAM 35. Watch this space.
-Alex
Alex,
Oh you bet, I routinely monitor these forums for great and wonderful creations from the entire NAM Team. Thank you again for keeping the flame on for SC4.
dyoungyn
Incredible stuff!
A few little surprises I finished up while the forum was down:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nwm-10132016-1.jpg)
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nwm-10122016-1.jpg)
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nwm-10122016-2.jpg)
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nwm-10122016-3.jpg)
Textures are courtesy of Dexter and MushyMushy.
-Alex
Wooow. I love these, I love NWM anyway, but what I've seen so far with all these new developments I can't wait for the next NAM releases. :) :popcorn:
Thank you very much! :) &apls &apls &apls &apls
- Tyberius
they are just gorgeous :D
How long have I been waiting for this ... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: &apls &apls &apls
So great to finally be seeing these transitions!! Are you also going to be making a TLA-3 to TLA-5 transition?
Quote from: Tarkus on October 13, 2016, 12:22:32 AM
A few little surprises I finished up while the forum was down:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nwm-10132016-1.jpg)
Wow, it's been awhile, but worth the wait. Not to knit pick though, but does the shoulder on the top left have to be such a sharp, straight-out ending? I'm not saying the whole 2 tile curved stretch, but just the first tile before looks possible to match more smoothly. Aside from that, this is what fans needed for some time.
Quote from: j-dub on October 13, 2016, 01:31:44 PM
Not to knit pick though, but does the shoulder on the top left have to be such a sharp, straight-out ending? I'm not saying the whole 2 tile curved stretch, but just the first tile before looks possible to match more smoothly. Aside from that, this is what fans needed for some time.
Personally I like it. I think it would look better once you've zoning in place, i.e. grass and sidewalks. But I'd say the textures are probably final at this stage (at least for NAM 35).
Quote from: j-dub on October 13, 2016, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Tarkus on October 13, 2016, 12:22:32 AM
A few little surprises I finished up while the forum was down:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nwm-10132016-1.jpg)
Wow, it's been awhile, but worth the wait. Not to knit pick though, but does the shoulder on the top left have to be such a sharp, straight-out ending? I'm not saying the whole 2 tile curved stretch, but just the first tile before looks possible to match more smoothly. Aside from that, this is what fans needed for some time.
I've also noticed this, maybe a semi-circular shape? would be less "aggressive" also, we are not seeing it with the side-walk, which may change the perception of it.
Thanks, everyone, for the kind words and support!
Now, to get to a couple questions . . .
As far as the "aggressive" end of the RD-4 shoulder, the original textures that Dexter supplied had low-wealth on them--I had to remove it in order to get the base version, but I've since gotten his wealthing design back in place. Here's how it looks:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nwm-10142016-1.jpg)
Generally, in the higher density situations, however, the grass goes away--here's how that looks:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nwm-10142016-3.jpg)
When those textures were displayed here in this thread 4 years ago (the images are lost now, due to ImageShack), there was a similar discussion about that situation, which was also evenly split.
Also, to get to the question on TLA-3-to-TLA-5 . . . Dexter did also supply some textures for that as well. I tweaked it a little to also produce an Avenue version:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/nwm-10142016-4.jpg)
The design is slightly different from the existing AVE-2-to-Avenue design.
I'll also add that all the transitions shown are draggable, either with direct connection (in the case of transitions involving the Avenue network) or through the stub-to-stub conversion. There will be no puzzle piece versions. There's only a couple of puzzle piece transitions that currently exist that haven't gotten draggable counterparts. They're more complex situations, and while the conversion won't be complete by NAM 35, they are up on the priority list.
Also, while I'm adept at handling some texturing tasks, NWM transitions are my biggest weakness. As I've said before here, if anyone is willing to step up and supply textures for some of the "missing links" they want to see, it's relatively easy for me to get them in-game. You'd be a veritable hero to all the NWM fans, and to the NAM Team as well.
-Alex
looking at the pics with the sidewalks I get the "ok, now it looks great" when looking at the low density, because indeed that stip of sidewalk makes all the diference, but at the higher densities I go more like "hmm not so good". maybe the sensation of sharpness is even greater with the full sidewalk nexto to it. But like we say here, "you cannot please greeks and trojans at the same time"
Quote
Also, while I'm adept at handling some texturing tasks, NWM transitions are my biggest weakness. As I've said before here, if anyone is willing to step up and supply textures for some of the "missing links" they want to see, it's relatively easy for me to get them in-game. You'd be a veritable hero to all the NWM fans, and to the NAM Team as well.
if you can name one of those transitions (and maybe supply the base texture for the 2 networked being transitioned) I may take a look at it.
If there is a list of ones you need done I can certainly take a look.
I can say that I've been getting back into SC4 lately (following a computer problem) and have been looking at more transitions that could be feasible. Right now I'm primarily looking at OWR-1 and have at least 4 configurations in mind (I apparently have some partially-finished work on these, now that I'm looking in my textures folder). The textures are honestly pretty fun to make so I might fiddle with finishing them this weekend. As has been offered by others, I'm also happy to make more textures if people have ideas for transitions that don't exist yet, provided the transitions are logical lane-wise.
I'm really stoked to see so much support so quickly for texturing more transitions--thanks, gn_leugim, Durfsurn, and MushyMushy! :thumbsup:
I've attached the US orthogonal textures for all the networks (including the unreleased AVE-8/TLA-9) below. Also included are the orth textures for Roads, OWRs, and Avenues. I may see about getting the diagonals up as well.
I'd say the biggest ones that are missing out there are between networks of different tile widths--things like TLA-5-to-Road, AVE-6-to-RD-4, RD-4-to-AVE-2, etc.
Thanks again! :thumbsup:
-Alex
A sneek peek into what I'm doing with that:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fn7ZChi9.png&hash=0b4bf821b646c896e7c57a493f1d129f69628959)
I'm thinking of covering;
- TLA-9 to TLA-7
- AVE-8 to AVE-6
- TLA-7 to RD-6
- TLA-5 to RD-4
- NRD-4 to RD-4 and AVE-4 (Does it even need one I can't remember)
- RD-4 to AVE-2
- NRD-4 to AVE-2
I think if I can do those I'll come back and ask for which other ones need most attention.
Cheers,
Billy
EDIT: Also let me know if any of these are already done - I haven't played the game in so long I can't remember which ones already have transitions.
Thanks, Billy!
Quote from: Durfsurn on October 14, 2016, 07:45:11 PM
I'm thinking of covering;
- TLA-9 to TLA-7
- AVE-8 to AVE-6
- TLA-7 to RD-6
- TLA-5 to RD-4
- NRD-4 to RD-4 and AVE-4 (Does it even need one I can't remember)
EDIT: Also let me know if any of these are already done - I haven't played the game in so long I can't remember which ones already have transitions.
The five points above do exist already (NRD-4-to-RD-4 and AVE-4 were just made, though the NRD-4-to-RD-4 has the "aggressive" end). RD-4-to-AVE-2 and NRD-4-to-AVE-2 don't exist yet, though.
-Alex
Keeping this NWM hype train alive ::):
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1dDBnvD.jpg&hash=1f972408ac6c84ed4dee27695b30306ec9b240aa)
Note for those who don't know: The two textures that look "chopped off" are simply symmetrical transitions, so those two textures are transitioning to two OWR-1 networks with a 1-tile gap in between. Because of this it would be redundant to have identical mirrored textures.
Personally I really love to see all this excitement about the NWM since I use it myself quite frequently. After a long time collecting dust it looks like the NWM is going to get brought into the modern era of the NAM (great compatibility, draggable replacements for PPs, WRCs, etc). Really exciting stuff. The level of enthusiasm that this community generates for an (at this point) ancient game makes my day. ;D
Great work Mushy :thumbsup:
I would love to work with you on an in development project that would tie in nicely with the Road to OWR 1 transitions you have made there ;D
MRCs will also come to the NWM sooner rather than later. I am really excited about their potential.
I too am on the bandwagon for more NWM development!
Exciting times!
-eggman121
well, I just had a night of sleep and Durfsurn is already attacking it :o
I?ll try to tackle AVE-6-to-RD-4 and RD-4-to-AVE-2, maybe today, but can't promise much though as I have an important work due to Monday morning and there is still a lot to do. I'll have such a nice weekend :|
This is what I got so far gn_leugim but I don't like some of them. They definitely could be better.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ff8h7dsc.png&hash=94d9b7c216558dff42fc8758cd283ec0f46c5dcc)
Cheers,
Billy
Like I said i've only worked a bit on the RD-4-to-AVE-2, but I went for a shorter transition (1x3), while yours look like 1x4 no?
Donno if I'll finished this today, got to move on business stuff :p
All these transitions are looking pretty good!!
Kinda finished the transition. There is still some tweaks to do here and there, namely hue, mostly hue I think.
a side not, the texture is made from scratch, hence adjustments in the hue/saturation/brightness and so may be needed. but tell me your opinion
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi93.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl79%2Fgn_leugim%2FRD4-AVE2_zpsa5aptyfi.png&hash=2f2fa93b88c4bb7dcde3fbfd5ba098e792bf246b) (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/gn_leugim/media/RD4-AVE2_zpsa5aptyfi.png.html)
chers, GnL
Depending on how you created the texture, such changes may not be necessary. What I'd do is layer the original NRD-4 and AVE-2 textures over the respective ends. Then I'd merge those into the texture you have now and using the smudge tool (PS) to blend this layer into your new texture. That way the two ends that connect to the respective networks will always blend perfectly.
Quote from: mgb204 on October 16, 2016, 12:10:54 PM
Depending on how you created the texture, such changes may not be necessary. What I'd do is layer the original NRD-4 and AVE-2 textures over the respective ends. Then I'd merge those into the texture you have now and using the smudge tool (PS) to blend this layer into your new texture. That way the two ends that connect to the respective networks will always blend perfectly.
I've made differently from your way, but indeed, yours much better, shall do it next. thanks!
I've been working on the RD4-Ave6 transition, and I have a rough draft of it. donno why, but I don't fell like is ok :bomb:. your opinions?
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi93.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl79%2Fgn_leugim%2FRD4-AVE6_rough_zps4pmckusz.png&hash=82bfebb6a2d69b4174f110c0661ab863afefa9a3) (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/gn_leugim/media/RD4-AVE6_rough_zps4pmckusz.png.html)
(the picture is 4x3 tiles)
Well, the first and biggest problem I foresee is that the RD-4 network is two tiles, and AVE-6 is 3 tiles, which means that you can't have a symmetrical transition.
That and the Texture appears to be that of the NRD-4, not the RD-4.
Unless that's what you meant? &Thk/(
I think maybe in this case you can make the transition longer so that there is more time to merge and there's less risk of accidents.
I'm inclined to agree with APSMS about the length of the transition. NRD-4 and AVE-6 are such vastly different networks I would say the transition should be 4 tiles in length instead of 2 so it comes off as smooth.
Quote from: APSMS on October 23, 2016, 01:19:43 PM
Well, the first and biggest problem I foresee is that the RD-4 network is two tiles, and AVE-6 is 3 tiles, which means that you can't have a symmetrical transition.
That and the Texture appears to be that of the NRD-4, not the RD-4.
Unless that's what you meant? &Thk/(
I think maybe in this case you can make the transition longer so that there is more time to merge and there's less risk of accidents.
Jez, was so worried I would get the right Ave5 textures and I got the wrong RD4 :facepalm: but well, is one more done anyway :)
Quote from: MushyMushy on October 23, 2016, 01:30:39 PM
I'm inclined to agree with APSMS about the length of the transition. NRD-4 and AVE-6 are such vastly different networks I would say the transition should be 4 tiles in length instead of 2 so it comes off as smooth.
I kinda have the same feeling as you guys, but, on the other hand, would be a rather long transition for a non highway network, or so I though. I can make it longer ofc. :thumbsup:
The RD4 to Ave6 transition needs to be probably five or six tiles long. The reason being is how the lanes tighten into the RD4. Fantastic work with what you're doing by the way.
Also may I suggest curving the transitions from the 1-tile to 2-tile networks? They don't have to be symmetrical but the curves need to be roughly S-shaped or half-chicaned and rather elongated.. The Ave2 to Mave4 transition would benefit from this the most.
Quote from: Vizoria on October 23, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
The RD4 to Ave6 transition needs to be probably five or six tiles long. The reason being is how the lanes tighten into the RD4. Fantastic work with what you're doing by the way.
Also may I suggest curving the transitions from the 1-tile to 2-tile networks? They don't have to be symmetrical but the curves need to be roughly S-shaped or half-chicaned and rather elongated.. The Ave2 to Mave4 transition would benefit from this the most.
Hey,
Sorry, but i'm not sure I understood well your second part of the suggestion, you are talking about making curved transitions?
Excellent work &apls It's great to see all these new options appearing in this area!
Quote from: Vizoria on October 23, 2016, 03:57:27 PM(snip) The reason being is how the lanes tighten into the RD4. (snip)
A problem virtually eliminated with my mod's geometry (NRD4 lanes are ~94% the width of RD4/MAVE4 and virtually all other networks aside from roads and OWR)--wish I could get more people developing content to be interested in that standard....
Ah, the unified set of road textures, that's something I'd like to see, it's the dream if you will.
I'm afraid though, somewhere along the way with TGN, SWN, two SAM networks and all my other texture mods, I simply suffered from texture-burn out. So starting on such a big undertaking right now, not for me.
Quote from: mgb204 on October 25, 2016, 03:09:12 PM
Ah, the unified set of road textures, that's something I'd like to see, it's the dream if you will.
I'm afraid though, somewhere along the way with TGN, SWN, two SAM networks and all my other texture mods, I simply suffered from texture-burn out. So starting on such a big undertaking right now, not for me.
Understandable--amazing you were able to release all the amazing stuff you've done without going mad :D I can sympathize with texture burnout as it's already happened to me multiple times (sometimes coterminus with an RL-necessitated break). While RHW re-geometry has been executed multiple times I guess it's vast current size wasn't an issue at that point.
I think I'm also a bit slower than you. I've never expected anyone else to join me but it would be a nice gesture of confidence if new NWM, etc, stuff was being developed with the widths I've reasoned out. It does seem though that Willy's process with RRW, largely independent besides consultation and advice, will need to be repeated by me if I expect to get my project to the point of full public release.
Quote from: gn_leugim on October 25, 2016, 02:12:28 PM
Quote from: Vizoria on October 23, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
The RD4 to Ave6 transition needs to be probably five or six tiles long. The reason being is how the lanes tighten into the RD4. Fantastic work with what you're doing by the way.
Also may I suggest curving the transitions from the 1-tile to 2-tile networks? They don't have to be symmetrical but the curves need to be roughly S-shaped or half-chicaned and rather elongated.. The Ave2 to Mave4 transition would benefit from this the most.
Hey,
Sorry, but i'm not sure I understood well your second part of the suggestion, you are talking about making curved transitions?
Not curved transitions. It's just in the space used in the transition, make the lane curve a little so as to make the transition smoother.
Quote from: noahclem on October 25, 2016, 04:41:09 PM
I've never expected anyone else to join me but it would be a nice gesture of confidence if new NWM, etc, stuff was being developed with the widths I've reasoned out. It does seem though that Willy's process with RRW, largely independent besides consultation and advice, will need to be repeated by me if I expect to get my project to the point of full public release.
I've watched your efforts from a distance. I'm intrigued, at the very least. :) And having re-done basically the entire RHW set three times, I know how much work is involved. :o
-Alex
Quote from: noahclem on October 25, 2016, 02:30:17 PM
A problem virtually eliminated with my mod's geometry (NRD4 lanes are ~94% the width of RD4/MAVE4 and virtually all other networks aside from roads and OWR)--wish I could get more people developing content to be interested in that standard....
Well, I was complete unaware of your work on that matter. I just started to work based on what I was given :p
Quote from: Vizoria on October 25, 2016, 05:02:59 PM
Not curved transitions. It's just in the space used in the transition, make the lane curve a little so as to make the transition smoother.
I got now. on the trasition I'm currently working on, I've made it one tile longer, and I think it looks perfect now.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi93.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl79%2Fgn_leugim%2FRD4-AVE6_rough2_zps36hwwmqf.png&hash=878b90ae37865edf1f21ccca97fbcf2d06d700f8) (http://s93.photobucket.com/user/gn_leugim/media/RD4-AVE6_rough2_zps36hwwmqf.png.html)
(Still a WIP)
All I see here is a serious "Bottle Neck" &mmm
Is it still NRD4 or RD4? Anyway its looks very nice. I love NwM, so anything new is welcome.
Other thing. I use the RHW FAR intersection puzzle pieces. Any chance something like that for NMW-road-ave-owr intersections?
Quote from: dyoungyn on October 26, 2016, 06:47:17 AM
All I see here is a serious "Bottle Neck" &mmm
Are you familiar with Fluid Dynamics? When two lanes go to three, you will always create a bottleneck. Of course the way the transition is handled can improve or worsen the situation, but one way or another, you've got 50% less space to fit the same things into, a bottleneck can't be avoided.
Quote from: mgb204 on October 26, 2016, 07:17:57 AM
Quote from: dyoungyn on October 26, 2016, 06:47:17 AM
All I see here is a serious "Bottle Neck" &mmm
Are you familiar with Fluid Dynamics? When two lanes go to three, you will always create a bottleneck. Of course the way the transition is handled can improve or worsen the situation, but one way or another, you've got 50% less space to fit the same things into, a bottleneck can't be avoided.
Any advice on how can it be dealt better with? I mean, how can the transition be better handled.
Quote from: gn_leugim on October 26, 2016, 09:20:17 AM
Any advice on how can it be dealt better with? I mean, how can the transition be better handled.
I think your proposal is pretty straight forward and any "nice-looking-streamlined" solution I can think of would result in a subtantial increase of space consumption (what I would try to avoid).
I'm a fan of additional markings on the road, so maybe you can fit in some "ghost islands" or "forbidden zones" (don't know the engl. technical term -> the zone with diagonal bars) for better lane clearing, but again, that would cost some space and maybe result in problems with left/right hand versions. In my opinion, the way it is right now fits best into the current set of other NAM/RHW transitions.
I personally think it's current layout is good. It looks sufficiently smooth to me. I'm kind of confused about why bottlenecks are being brought up though. Of course it's a bottleneck - it went from 6 to 4 lanes. The NWM and RHW already have bottleneck transitions just like any real road network does - I've driven on a road that went from 2 to 7 lanes all at once.
Just silently dropping these here :-X
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fp05EEXn.jpg&hash=bf2f5f40376c881ef9d28e00316b8361a7e3ac97)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FE4lZPgH.jpg&hash=5e99dc6313089430da4c56b3f757e810fffb5a61)
The pieces are in quarters so you can mix and match the quadrants.
-eggman121
Stephen, those look amazing. :thumbsup:
Quote from: gn_leugim on October 26, 2016, 09:20:17 AM
Any advice on how can it be dealt better with? I mean, how can the transition be better handled.
I might be inclined to extend the length another tile. The TLA-3-to-5 and AVE-2-to-4 transitions are actually 4 tiles long, and there's less of a differential with them.
-Alex
Quote from: gn_leugim on October 26, 2016, 09:20:17 AM
Any advice on how can it be dealt better with? I mean, how can the transition be better handled.
I agree with Alex, perhaps making it longer would visually improve things. That said, it's a balancing act, I know many players would prefer it be more compact so the piece itself is more flexible and can be used in tighter situations.
But from a technical standpoint, the bottleneck would be exactly the same no matter what you do with the textures. I've always been fascinated by the parallels between road building and fluid dynamics, it's odd to think the two are so intertwined.
@Eggman121 - Oh yes, that's a pretty roundabout! :bnn:
Nickpicking... we have roundabouts for so few networks, Avenues are reasonably well covered. Now if somehow you could integrate AVE-6/TLA7 into that, that's something sorely missing IMO. Again, NRD-4 and possibly some other NWM options. I'll stop there before getting too gready, but more roundabouts, yes please :).
Quote from: eggman121 on October 26, 2016, 12:35:02 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FE4lZPgH.jpg&hash=5e99dc6313089430da4c56b3f757e810fffb5a61)
IMO it would make more sense if the dedicated right lane didn't yield, and the outer roundabout lane became the inner exit? the yield lines are a bit strange to me, but I guess that could be me being used to UK rules (and also just general inexperience XD)
It looks fantastic though!, as do all of the rest of the pictures recently released :D
These are looking nice. As for the bottleneck in the above, it will always be a problem. The only thing I think gn_leugim needs is a lane marker dividing the left lane from the right. A dashed line is good, though I can also see a solid line as well (the latter is more popular in construction zones).
eggman, I like the roundabouts. I even like the right turn parts. One thing that does bother me is that I've never seen a roundabout with stop lines in the circle. Could those be removed?
I've seen roundabouts with stop lines and even traffic lights, but there are usually only one or two. The cool thing is: if I understood correctly, eggman has built it modular, so maybe if he could add some pieces without stop lines, we could mix up really amazing asymetrical roundabouts... (something like this: https://www.google.de/maps/@52.1388232,11.6396268,123m/data=!3m1!1e3 (https://www.google.de/maps/@52.1388232,11.6396268,123m/data=!3m1!1e3))
Ya well, I have never been a fan of round-a-bouts. In the real world, I think they are dangerous. Washington, DC has many and I HATE them and fear for my life every time. It makes is very difficult to follow a navigator if you miss the exit. Lanes mysteriously end and one ends up going in a totally different direction.
Regardless, I understand SC4 works differently. The round-a-bout above does look much better then the current NAM version. Again, I think it looks GREAT. Only concerned about the surrounding around the round-a-bout IRT zoning.
Quote from: dyoungyn on October 26, 2016, 05:36:49 PM
Ya well, I have never been a fan of round-a-bouts. In the real world, I think they are dangerous. Washington, DC has many and I HATE them and fear for my life every time. It makes is very difficult to follow a navigator if you miss the exit. Lanes mysteriously end and one ends up going in a totally different direction.
Regardless, I understand SC4 works differently. The round-a-bout above does look much better then the current NAM version. Again, I think it looks GREAT. Only concerned about the surrounding around the round-a-bout IRT zoning.
I guess roundabouts are simply just more a European thing, but dangerous they are not. For example, in the UK we have them on motorway junctions, some which you can legally drive through at 70mph, which I've done. The key to safety is good lane markings and as always, drivers following the rules for using it. No doubt if they were more prevalent, you'd all get used to them. If I've learned one thing driving many hundreds of thousands of miles, it's that the most dangerous situations are unfamiliar ones.
Zoning will never be as simple as with 4-way intersections. But you don't have to zone every possible tile, sometimes it simply isn't realistic to do so. Big roundabouts like this one are more commonplace in more open spaces. In congested cities, very major routes excepted, they are typically more compact.
Eggman,
All i can say is each to their own. I am sure the U.S. particularly Washington, DC, as I personally feel they are dangerous. Of course they do slow traffic down. I am also not saying all round-a-bouts are the same. Like you stated, in congested areas, there is more traffic and opportunity for more failures and not following the laws.
Again, in SC4 it is a different realism and traffic does not react with the in-consistencies as the real world
Most of the ones in DC technically count as "traffic circles"--there's actually a distinction between those and "roundabouts", based on the traffic control and rules of priority at the intersection. A true roundabout, at least per most definitions I've seen, has drivers entering the intersection yield to those already in the circular roadway. I have mixed feelings about them here in the US. They have their place, but I can also cite plenty of places where they've either screwed up the design, or simply put them in spots they shouldn't have. The driver education for them is also inconsistent, and frankly, terrible in most parts of the US, too.
All that said, I'm all for trying to recreate as many of the possible real-life design options in SC4 as is feasible. It's the goal of the NAM Team to try to provide you with the ability to make those transportation decisions for yourself, and explore the options.
-Alex
That looks great!
Eggman, that roundabout is awesome, although I dunno if I can call it a roundabout, because, those lines in the middle are used to stop traffic I guess (stop lights would make it even awesome'r). But, regarding safety, at least here in Portugal, where roundabouts are like weeds, we found them safe, very safe actually. is more easier to find traffic accidents in "regular" intersections" than in roundabouts, even if some people do not follow the rules of them, i.e, the inside traffic rules. I also find them as an efficient and "democratic" way of dealing with traffic, specially when it is not even.
Regarding the transition I am working currently, thanks for all advices. Regarding the size, I am of the opinion that with this size, a better balance of fluidity and compactness is archived, but I can make two version, one with 3, other with 4 tiles, if it is possible to add both of them.
Quote from: eggman121 on October 26, 2016, 12:35:02 PM
Just silently dropping these here :-X
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fp05EEXn.jpg&hash=bf2f5f40376c881ef9d28e00316b8361a7e3ac97) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FE4lZPgH.jpg&hash=5e99dc6313089430da4c56b3f757e810fffb5a61)
The pieces are in quarters so you can mix and match the quadrants.
-eggman121
Usually, here in Europe, the incoming lane have the stop and not the roundabout.
The last updates are speechless! :o Keep up the work!! :thumbsup:
Quote from: JoeST on October 26, 2016, 01:21:17 PM
Quote from: eggman121 on October 26, 2016, 12:35:02 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FE4lZPgH.jpg&hash=5e99dc6313089430da4c56b3f757e810fffb5a61)
IMO it would make more sense if the dedicated right lane didn't yield, and the outer roundabout lane became the inner exit? the yield lines are a bit strange to me, but I guess that could be me being used to UK rules (and also just general inexperience XD)
It looks fantastic though!, as do all of the rest of the pictures recently released :D
Yield lines inside a roundabout is weird IMO too.
I've never driven in a round about with a give way line inside it.
Maybe it's a reference to a weirdly shaped roundabout in North Melbourne (https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8012722,144.9571785,145m/data=!3m1!1e3)
QuoteUsually, here in Europe, the incoming lane have the stop and not the roundabout.
Indeed, but other things with round shapes exists, for example this "rotunda" (roundabout), although retains the name, in my view is not a roundabout, and has the lines in the middle of the circle, with trafic lights:
https://www.google.pt/maps/@41.1579284,-8.6301534,323m/data=!3m1!1e3 (street view may be helpful :p)
Other similar example is this longed circular intersection, that is not a roudabout, and is somehow alike the one made by Eggman.
https://www.google.pt/maps/@41.1745001,-8.6133473,119m/data=!3m1!1e3
Actually it's not a rare thing here in Spain. An example https://www.google.es/maps/@39.490331,-0.399411,180m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=es in Valencia
Mother of God is that a roundabout! Nice one eggman121!
These are really nice! Very much used here in my region :thumbsup:
On the roundabout issue, I did find one that does have lights not only in the roundabout, but on the exit lanes: Stockholm's Sergel Torg https://www.google.com/maps/@59.3326719,18.0656502,3a,75y,292.27h,62.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s5cTTt9JUCtYynsGWa5bBIw!2e0!5s20140501T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (I do remember it from when I visited there in the early 2000s, and thought it was strange then). However, a good roundabout really does not need one, but that's my 2 cents worth.
Quote from: druidlove on October 29, 2016, 11:04:58 PM
On the roundabout issue, I did find one that does have lights not only in the roundabout, but on the exit lanes: Stockholm's Sergel Torg https://www.google.com/maps/@59.3326719,18.0656502,3a,75y,292.27h,62.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s5cTTt9JUCtYynsGWa5bBIw!2e0!5s20140501T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (I do remember it from when I visited there in the early 2000s, and thought it was strange then). However, a good roundabout really does not need one, but that's my 2 cents worth.
The reason for the traffic lights on the exit lanes is the crosswalk. We always have light regulated crosswalks for any roads that are 2+2 lanes, and downtown almost all crosswalks are light regulated. Ofcourse, stopping traffic from leaving roundabouts causes terrible backups in every direction :thumbsdown:
Since you 'muricans (and everyone else) seem a bit confused about the rules of roundabouts, i figured i'll explain.
In most countries, vehicles entering the roundabout yield to vehicles already in the roundabout. This basically means that countries with right hand drive yield left and vice versa. Very few countries, France the most well known, have the opposite of this, where instead you yield to vehicles entering the roundabout. This makes no sense and is horrible for traffic flow as well as safety. For proof just google image "Paris Roundabout".
Any other configuration, where vehicle flow is regulated through traffic lights no matter those lights regulate entering, going through or exiting is not at all to be considered a roundabout, its a one way street/road that happens to be kind of circular. London is full of these.
Eggman's would be the French kind, an unregulated roundabout where yield is given to those entering.
Hope this clears things up :)
With stop lines or not - it's amazing! Great work, eggman! &apls
Quote from: kbieniu7 on October 30, 2016, 01:41:39 PM
With stop lines or not - it's amazing! Great work, eggman! &apls
Agreed. Not to mention, stop lines are simply a texture thing. Nothing stopping someone creating the alternate version as an optional override.
Quote from: Fredrik001 on October 30, 2016, 06:49:06 AM
Since you 'muricans (and everyone else) seem a bit confused about the rules of roundabouts, i figured i'll explain.
In most countries, vehicles entering the roundabout yield to vehicles already in the roundabout. This basically means that countries with right hand drive yield left and vice versa. Very few countries, France the most well known, have the opposite of this, where instead you yield to vehicles entering the roundabout. This makes no sense and is horrible for traffic flow as well as safety. For proof just google image "Paris Roundabout".
Any other configuration, where vehicle flow is regulated through traffic lights no matter those lights regulate entering, going through or exiting is not at all to be considered a roundabout, its a one way street/road that happens to be kind of circular. London is full of these.
Eggman's would be the French kind, an unregulated roundabout where yield is given to those entering.
Hope this clears things up :)
The idea of a roundabout is actually a good idea when it is engineered correctly. It should be a yield to the traffic in the roundabout, just like one would yield to oncoming traffic in a regular intersection. They are starting to spread like wildfire in the US. Even the show Mythbusters tested the roundabout and found it more efficient than a regular intersection. The only problem is that I've seen cities that want to plop a roundabout to control traffic, and do not take in consideration bicyclists (where they have to share the road in states that have this law) or semi-trucks into consideration. Both can be hazardous, which is why studies need to be taken up at such incidents. The lights at roundabouts does defeat the purpose of a roundabout, even if it's for pedestrian crosswalks due to gridlock.
I've actually lived in Sweden for about six years, and in that time, Stockholm was like a weekend trip of fun for me and my family. However, Vägverket does one thing right: the 2+1 highway (or the RHW-3, or possibly the ARD-3 in NAM) where the middle lane changes direction every mile or so like on highway 80 between Falun and Gävle. This allows adequate safe passing opportunities.
Quote from: druidlove on November 01, 2016, 01:12:15 AM
Quote from: Fredrik001 on October 30, 2016, 06:49:06 AM
Since you 'muricans (and everyone else) seem a bit confused about the rules of roundabouts, i figured i'll explain.
In most countries, vehicles entering the roundabout yield to vehicles already in the roundabout. This basically means that countries with right hand drive yield left and vice versa. Very few countries, France the most well known, have the opposite of this, where instead you yield to vehicles entering the roundabout. This makes no sense and is horrible for traffic flow as well as safety. For proof just google image "Paris Roundabout".
Any other configuration, where vehicle flow is regulated through traffic lights no matter those lights regulate entering, going through or exiting is not at all to be considered a roundabout, its a one way street/road that happens to be kind of circular. London is full of these.
Eggman's would be the French kind, an unregulated roundabout where yield is given to those entering.
Hope this clears things up :)
The idea of a roundabout is actually a good idea when it is engineered correctly. It should be a yield to the traffic in the roundabout, just like one would yield to oncoming traffic in a regular intersection. They are starting to spread like wildfire in the US. Even the show Mythbusters tested the roundabout and found it more efficient than a regular intersection. The only problem is that I've seen cities that want to plop a roundabout to control traffic, and do not take in consideration bicyclists (where they have to share the road in states that have this law) or semi-trucks into consideration. Both can be hazardous, which is why studies need to be taken up at such incidents. The lights at roundabouts does defeat the purpose of a roundabout, even if it's for pedestrian crosswalks due to gridlock.
I've actually lived in Sweden for about six years, and in that time, Stockholm was like a weekend trip of fun for me and my family. However, Vägverket does one thing right: the 2+1 highway (or the RHW-3, or possibly the ARD-3 in NAM) where the middle lane changes direction every mile or so like on highway 80 between Falun and Gävle. This allows adequate safe passing opportunities.
Agreed on the roundabouts, they're great when engineered correctly and used in the right places. Trafikverket (former Vägverket) has however aquiered a bad habit of using roundabouts where main throughfares intersect with smaller streets, giving equal right to high speed, high density traffic and those that really should yield. Not to mention roundabouts over freeways, where traffic backs up all the way down to the through lanes, rather than an intersection where traffic from the freeway can be prioritized.
I can't agree on the 2+1's though, guess I'm more of an aggressive driver :P
I hate being stuck on those behind a few slow drivers, and then when the passing lane opens up one of the slow but slightly faster drivers decide on blocking it for it's entire length ;)
Just to leave a small update, I had finished the texture I was working on, but I didn't like the end result, so I scrapt it and started a new one, which, is looking better IMO. :)
Quote from: druidlove on November 01, 2016, 01:12:15 AM
Quote from: Fredrik001 on October 30, 2016, 06:49:06 AM
Since you 'muricans (and everyone else) seem a bit confused about the rules of roundabouts, i figured i'll explain.
In most countries, vehicles entering the roundabout yield to vehicles already in the roundabout. This basically means that countries with right hand drive yield left and vice versa. Very few countries, France the most well known, have the opposite of this, where instead you yield to vehicles entering the roundabout. This makes no sense and is horrible for traffic flow as well as safety. For proof just google image "Paris Roundabout".
Any other configuration, where vehicle flow is regulated through traffic lights no matter those lights regulate entering, going through or exiting is not at all to be considered a roundabout, its a one way street/road that happens to be kind of circular. London is full of these.
Eggman's would be the French kind, an unregulated roundabout where yield is given to those entering.
Hope this clears things up :)
The idea of a roundabout is actually a good idea when it is engineered correctly. It should be a yield to the traffic in the roundabout, just like one would yield to oncoming traffic in a regular intersection. They are starting to spread like wildfire in the US. Even the show Mythbusters tested the roundabout and found it more efficient than a regular intersection. The only problem is that I've seen cities that want to plop a roundabout to control traffic, and do not take in consideration bicyclists (where they have to share the road in states that have this law) or semi-trucks into consideration. Both can be hazardous, which is why studies need to be taken up at such incidents. The lights at roundabouts does defeat the purpose of a roundabout, even if it's for pedestrian crosswalks due to gridlock.
I've actually lived in Sweden for about six years, and in that time, Stockholm was like a weekend trip of fun for me and my family. However, Vägverket does one thing right: the 2+1 highway (or the RHW-3, or possibly the ARD-3 in NAM) where the middle lane changes direction every mile or so like on highway 80 between Falun and Gävle. This allows adequate safe passing opportunities.
Actually rounadabouts aren't that generic.
The first thing to know when desinging one is, it has a limitation to how much traffic it can handle. So there is a very good graph showing in between how much traffic it is ok to build a roundabout. Too few traffic and it's costly, too much traffic and it will start to generate huge traffic jams. And at this end there is a solution that allows roundabouts to work their magic with even greater capacities. It's called a semaforized roundabout (so with traffic lights). This isn't just a circular one way road, as someone wrongfully named it. It is a roundabout, but the traffic lights enable it to have a better traffic flow, just as the yield signs regulate the traffic flow otherwise. Here in Ljubljana, we have one of the major city arteries intersecting with the expressway in such a manner. It is a combination of a turbo rounddabout which is also semaforized. It has 4 entry lanes, so you decide where to go before the roundabout and very short traffic flow dependend traffic lights that in effect are a bit of a transition between the autonomus vehicles and people driving like idiots. In effect the cimputer organizes how people behave. And it works really great, since its there, there hadnt been any accidents and rush hour traffic is flowing. Before the traffic lights, there were accidents every day, causing long stand stills. There are also a lot of other variants, that all serve their purpose, like the french variant, where they changed the yielding to the roundabout. While that abviously seems a dumb idea, it in fact isn't, because it is esier to enter the roundabout, so more cars enter. At a certain point it will of course block the whole thing, but that is the same at the nonfrench version. The upper limit of traffic for a roundabout.
I would like to see OWR-1 merges with either OWR-2 or OWR-3, in order to form nice offramps. FA OWR-1 would be a bonus!
Your probably after this thread.
http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=17631.0
-eggman121
You guys ROCK!!!! I can never say this enough! You never cease to amaze me!
Hey eggman
Did you ever create an Ave-6 curve? I see the TLA-7 curve.
Just wondering.
NWM curves are in planning.
More will be elaborated on after the current NAM 36 cycle.
-eggman121
:bnn: :bnn: I can hardly wait to see it. I am getting my drool bucket ready!
Quote from: eggman121 on June 08, 2017, 03:39:33 PM
NWM curves are in planning.
More will be elaborated on after the current NAM 36 cycle.
-eggman121
In the process of doing some testing relating to the recent FTL-related proposals, I happened to discover that the DIPs were not functioning properly on the NRD-4 network, dropping its capacity. The patch below will correct this. The recommended location for installation is the Plugins\z___NAM folder.
In case anyone is wondering regarding the technical aspect, the culprit appeared to be the "number of paths" value on the path file for the orthogonal tile (0x51050000), which was still set to 10 even after the PedMall Connector paths were added to the network during NAM 34 development. The DIPs were the 11th and 12th paths in the file, and this caused them to not be read. I have changed the "number of paths" value to 12, thereby re-enabling the DIPs.
The copy of NetworkWideningMod_NRD-4.dat in my NAM build folder has already been corrected, so the fix will be included in NAM 37 out of the box.
-Alex
Quote from: eggman121 on June 08, 2017, 03:39:33 PM
NWM curves are in planning.
More will be elaborated on after the current NAM 36 cycle.
-eggman121
I would like to see some FA NWM as well, but I'm afraid that would be asking too much, especially since draggable FA never got past 1 tile width, which is not so much of a problem for ARD-3 or OWR-3 and other 1 tile networks, but does not seem feasible on the Ave-6 or TLA-7.
Quote from: roadgeek on November 19, 2017, 11:47:24 PM
I would like to see some FA NWM as well, but I'm afraid that would be asking too much, especially since draggable FA never got past 1 tile width, which is not so much of a problem for ARD-3 or OWR-3 and other 1 tile networks, but does not seem feasible on the Ave-6 or TLA-7.
The most likely scenario with the multi-tile network setups would be FLEX pieces, rather than what would likely be an inordinately complex pattern-based draggable. I wouldn't be surprised if the single-tile variants also received FLEX piece equivalents as well.
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on November 20, 2017, 01:57:07 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the single-tile variants also received FLEX piece equivalents as well.
Actually, I find the draggable solutions for the FAs of the road and rail network quite handy. Sure, they need some time to familiarize, but it's basically a 'rtfm' (thx to the wonderful pattern descriptions).
But as far as I remember, Tarkus said that this Flex technology is actually saving work and time in the process of creating new functionality. What would you guess to be less work intensive: single tile draggable FAs or Flex pieces?
In terms of the actual coding side of things, porting the Road Draggable FAs to One-Way Road would mostly be a "CPFR" (Copy-Paste-Find-Replace) operation. There'd be at least a little extra RUL0 work, and possibly some INRUL work, in making FLEX versions of it. The reason for doing FLEX versions on the single-tile would mostly be to give users another option, and better handling of some setups that are difficult with the draggable method. It'd kind of be to mirror the DRI/FLEXRamp system on the RHW side.
As far as how it would affect the potential of NWM FA functionality, there's virtually no difference. The IIDs would be the same between the Draggable FA and FLEX FA, so the RUL2 code would automatically apply to both.
-Alex
I guess I should post on the status update of the NWM MRCs
(https://i.imgur.com/9Ty3h8m.jpg)
There will be base versions of the TLA variants of curves as flex pieces and the idea is to make other variants based on overrides.
Still a bit of work to do on the Curves but they are coming along smoothly.
Alex is completely right on the tech side of things. That is the direction I am headed.
-eggman121
Fabulous!!!!!!!!!
Are AVE6/7 gentle curves still on the radar?
Nice wide curve NVM!!! &apls &apls &apls
For the more future of NAM version, please make diagonal and elevated version of NVM if you lucky! :P
Absolutely Amazing, eggman!
Wow, that's amazing! :thumbsup:
Wow, that's amazing! :bnn:
Alex,
I wanted to share with you an odd issue I recently ran across, to see if you might be able to produce it in your region..
But I refer to this as the Pedestrian Path 2 eternity :P
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F1024x768q90%2F922%2FTYF1hL.jpg&hash=d99fec9186eb4e5d4c17e3358c22a437df11440d)
It seems to originate from the owr-3 to owr-4 transition. At the moment I cant seem to recall if it runs amok in any other instances in my cities..
Hello everyone. Here is the latest video I have made for the NWM MRC side of things.
https://www.youtube.com/v/BhXdjaURDGM
Hopefully the embedding has worked properly this time.
Enjoy :)
-eggman121
Awesome! We want more NWM roads!!! &apls &apls &apls :bnn: :bnn: :bnn: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I'm always impressed that new additions are churned out at a frequent pace - and not only that, genuinely useful additions too! Can't wait to use 'em! :laugh:
Sweeeeeeeeet!
But also really, really amazing &apls
Have a banana :bnn:
Amazing :D :D :bnn:
Thanks for everyone that replied and pressed like on the post :)
Here are some more teasers...
(https://i.imgur.com/USxG0OA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A8ZXKNm.jpg)
Basically two variants with the same right of way.
One thing you will notice is "override embedding"
That is once a piece is overridden you may have to remove the piece to override with a different network due to the fact that the override is embedded in the piece. This is due to the structure of the RUL coding. This may be advantageous for making sections of road and overriding the pieces to the variants without starter pieces.
I have coded the R4 variant and am on to the R5 now.
-eggman121
It looks amazing &apls
Agree, looks amazing.
Only one thing, when ARD3 goes under RHW 10S, the lanes divert. I hope this has been addressed as I love NAM and all the great and imaginative creations, thank you so much for sharing.
Does somebody know how to pull this off (or wether it is implemented at all)?
(https://i.imgur.com/uWON2vp.jpg)
Have you tried putting another tile of space between the two OWRs? By the looks of it, a properly-overridden version of the setup you posted would have two 45° curves end to end, which I imagine isn't currently supported in the RULs. An extra tile would ensure that there's at least a bit of straight OWR-1 between the two curves.
Hi Seaman
I was able to make the setup you wanted to create...
(https://i.imgur.com/QJKMucr.jpg)
To do this a horseshoe has to be made inside with the OWR network between the two carriageways as shown below, You join the horseshoe to the carriageways with the Road network...
(https://i.imgur.com/r9YDONR.jpg)
I also notice on my Dev setup I have a missing road path. Looks like it is ok on you end.
Alas you may need someone from the NAM team to make a patch to make the setup functional if this is a problem.
-eggman121
thanks a lot! I'll check it on my end asap. :)
EDIT:
I've checked, but it seems, that in the public NAM36 the pathing is absent, too (green circle).
The correct pathing (but with an override error on the stub end) I showed in my last post appears with this drag pattern (yellow markings).
Also: something seems to be missing with this setup (blue circle).
(https://i.imgur.com/S1qNZ9z.jpg)
I think what you're seeing is interference from the One-Way Road network's hardcoded "tidal flow" system. IIRC, you'd need to draw the LHD pattern for the slip lanes (the reverse of the RHD setup) in order for a slip lane out the left side of an OWR to work properly.
-Alex
Quote from: eggman121 on February 15, 2018, 01:41:23 PM
Thanks for everyone that replied and pressed like on the post :)
Here are some more teasers...
(https://i.imgur.com/USxG0OA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A8ZXKNm.jpg)
Basically two variants with the same right of way.
One thing you will notice is "override embedding"
That is once a piece is overridden you may have to remove the piece to override with a different network due to the fact that the override is embedded in the piece. This is due to the structure of the RUL coding. This may be advantageous for making sections of road and overriding the pieces to the variants without starter pieces.
I have coded the R4 variant and am on to the R5 now.
-eggman121
FA-ARD?!?!? Grid broken once again!
QuoteFA-ARD?!?!? Grid broken once again!
Not quite FA angles but Multi Radius curves :D
I like to keep things......
Smoooooth(https://i.imgur.com/Yojiybv.jpg)
Click for larger size ;)
Pathing and tidying up the curves will main point of work going forward for this release. I have done what I need to do with the curves. So no more will be added this release.
-eggman121
UH. MAY. ZING. :bnn: &apls &apls &apls
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/10407648/oh-my.jpg)
Woah! Woah! Woah!!!.... &apls &apls &apls &apls
Best NWM curves ever!!! :bnn: :popcorn: ;D
Please make another one just likes in real world! :thumbsup:
Smooth indeed :thumbsup:
(https://schloss-post.com/content/uploads/1988_joe_camel_corvette-600x809.jpg)
Pardon the old cigarette ad...but it has 'smooth' and a corvette!
Are you a Michael Jackson fan? Because here we have a smooth criminal :thumbsup:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.vashtie.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F10%2Fmichael-jackson-smooth-criminal.jpg&hash=972f33feda1b9d34fb7e4138fba95088a3dc72da)
Thank you everyone who posted and clicked Like :thumbsup:
We now have to figure out the pathing now for the MRCs... Which is always the painful part.
I have made a spreadsheet that can convert between the Bounding box size and the Outer Arc Length of the curve. Quite neat actually.
From that I am trying to make co-ordinates from the calculations. (Watch this space)
Oh those accolades are making me well... ?=mad)= in laughter :D
I swap around on projects... As I do. To keep thing interesting.
RRW wise I am making Flex Pieces now and have the crossovers and STR to DTR Transition (Including a Diagonal) In flex form.
I can't wait to bring these too you but alas they still need working on.
Thanks for all the commentary and I hope to bring these too you all in the near future ;)
-eggman121
OK, but that Narrow Ave-4 looks like it is using FA. I can see the 45 degree on the ARD, but the Narrow Ave-4 does not look like a 45 degree path. Maybe I am just seeing things. Wishful thinking perhaps.
Glorious!
Quote from: roadgeek on April 09, 2018, 07:55:58 PM
OK, but that Narrow Ave-4 looks like it is using FA. I can see the 45 degree on the ARD, but the Narrow Ave-4 does not look like a 45 degree path. Maybe I am just seeing things. Wishful thinking perhaps.
The hilly terrain, combined with the incredibly wide radius of those curves (see the existing R4 curves for comparison), is probably what's making the NRD-4 look FA. The actual stretch of diagonal network there is quite short.
-Alex
Quote from: Terring7 on March 25, 2018, 01:28:59 AM
Are you a Michael Jackson fan? Because here we have a smooth criminal :thumbsup:
Oh don't get me started on Michael Jackson, although you are right about him being a criminal, and a Satan worshipper to boot.
I might have found a flip issue here:
(https://i.imgur.com/qxFeWyA.jpg)
I don't think that this set up is supported at all... Specially, that with these directions that slip lane would be total pointless... But as I remember a lot of slip lane set up haven't been put into the final NAM 36 release, and I don't remember showcases about OWR related NWM slip lanes at all...
- Tyberius
oh thank you very much, Tiberius. My bad, I mixed something up when I tried to reproduce the problem. Here's the correct situation:
(https://i.imgur.com/iSLRMGU.jpg)
The OWR-3 is supposed to go from right to left, the OWR-2 is going to the upper part of the picture. All is fine, except when I drag the slip lane, it tries to convert the OWR-2 into a OWR-3, but only on one side...
It doesn't like like there is sufficient stability for NWM OWRxNWM OWR setups yet. Although basic support for slip lanes from/to OWR-3 interacting with other networks is there. I'd guess right now it works with Roads/OWR-2/Ave, anything else you can get stable is a bonus.
ok, thx mgb. I simply wasn't sure wether this is something I should bring to attention.
Thx to the NAM team to include the additional cappabilities regardless.
Hello. I'm new to the NAM community. I hope this question hasn't been asked before. But is there plans to make Y intersections? specially, diagonal Y intersections?
This is what I'm referring to:
(https://i.imgur.com/JXTB4qq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Igya1Mq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q003SSt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/89ymCFn.jpg)
does such a thing exists?
Thanks a lot. BTW I love this mod.it's so cool!
@superjugy: Due to a number of time constraints during development, NWM development is currently on hold. Although Alex and the rest of the NAM Team would love to have better diagonal intersection integration for the NWM, right now the state of things is such that any diagonal intersections that you are able to make are there as an easter egg of sorts and are unsupported.
Diagonal Y intersections are probably further down the list in terms of supported intersections (basic DxO and DxD intersections would be first, in all those combinations), though I'm sure if the NAM Team could easily integrate them into the codebase, and if the textures have been made, then they will do so as time permits. The number of proper NAM coders is limited to 3.5 right now (IIRC) so things will move as they will. Maybe we'll see some more robust development on that front in a few years. Perhaps the FTL project will float your boat in the meantime.
(It may also be worth noting that the current diagonal Y intersection setup with RDxRD or AVExAVE isn't very ideal in terms of aesthetics or geometry, which means it might also warrant more dev time even after proper NWM diagonal functionality hits the shelves, and none of this has any kind of scheduled release date at all, even internally.)
It's ok. Just wanted to know if it was planned. I found a workaround so it is fine. Again, awesome mod guys. Looks and feels really cool. :bnn:
I can confirm APSMS' comments on NWM development. The Y-intersections like that hadn't been on our radar, mainly as they're even more complicated the (already complex) diagonal intersections, and the texture work would be considerably more involved than it is for the base setups. There's also the matter of the desired intersection priority as well.
I can't guarantee it'd be anything we'd get to particularly soon, but now that the subject has been brought up, I am somewhat curious as to how something like this would be best implemented.
I'll also add in passing that we may end up covering some of the base diagonal intersection setups via the FLEX Turn Lane system, and particularly with the multi-tile networks. It'd likely accelerate the development process (particularly for some of the more potentially popular setups) as well.
-Alex
This is what I was trying to accomplish:
(https://i.imgur.com/QmASt36.png)
This is the close up of my workaround. Just shift two tiles from the corner and leave a little tail hanging (2 tiles as well) and all is good. Unless you have OCD. But I guess I can live with this.
(https://i.imgur.com/hwBMLrs.png)
On another topic. Why is it that sometimes the following happens:
(https://i.imgur.com/bRWfLun.png)
but other times doesn't:
(https://i.imgur.com/Wzb1jk5.png)
How can I fix it? do I need to bulldoze the whole diamond and try again?
First off, that's some really impressive NWM work . . . definitely the most I've seen of the extant diagonal intersections in action. :thumbsup:
To answer your question about the interchange, the RHW-4 does not support at-grade intersections with any of the NWM networks, so the result will be either the RHW-4 or the NWM network reverting back to their respective base networks, much as happened in your image. This is planned to change in the near future, however. The first interchange image also seems to have the RHW transitioning to Road right before the intersection, which would also create an issue.
-Alex
Thanks! glad you liked it. When you say "at grade" does that mean that if I leave a few more tiles between the ramp and the intersection with the road it won't revert?
Quote from: superjugy on August 24, 2018, 09:09:11 AM
When you say "at grade" does that mean that if I leave a few more tiles between the ramp and the intersection with the road it won't revert?
By at-grade, I mean that the two networks are intersecting at the same level (ground level, in this case), rather than an over/underpass situation. There is no code at all (nor any textures or paths) to support the intersection in the current NAM, so unfortunately, you will get the same result regardless of the distance between the ramp and the intersection. The single-lane MIS Ramp does support at-grade intersections with the TLA-7 (as it has since the TLA-7's debut in 2011), or alternatively, you might be able to transition the RHW-4 to One-Way Road right before the intersection on both sides, since TLA-7 x OWR is supported.
-Alex
I see. I'll try the OWR trick and see if it helps. Thanks!
About the ARD-3 tail, you could try use the RHW disconnector to cut it and put buildings in it's place. I'm not completely sure about what would happen with the pathing while doing that, but given that there are a couple of intersections before, I'm sure no commuters will end trapped inside it.
Quote from: matias93 on August 25, 2018, 07:48:49 AM
About the ARD-3 tail, you could try use the RHW disconnector to cut it and put buildings in it's place. I'm not completely sure about what would happen with the pathing while doing that, but given that there are a couple of intersections before, I'm sure no commuters will end trapped inside it.
I had the same idea and think it should be totally fine, maybe one should avoid clicking around on the roads afterwards...?
Quote from: APSMS on August 21, 2018, 09:35:05 PM
The number of proper NAM coders is limited to 3.5 right now (IIRC) so things will move as they will.
Are there any Rule Coding Tutorials out there on YouTube?
I know people learn in different ways, but I have serious doubts any video could really explain RUL coding properly. I can't really point you to a tutorial, I simply don't know of one, but there is some basic information available on the SC4D Wiki about RUL (http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=RUL_File).
There are multiple RUL types, RUL0 (http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=RUL0), RUL1 (http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=RUL1), RUL2 (http://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=RUL_0x10000002), INRUL and others. RUL0 handles items in the game menus, i.e. Tab Rings. RUL1 tells the game what to do when two base networks intersect. RUL2 is override code, the most useful, so if a junction exists for the base networks in RUL1, adding RUL2 can allow override networks to also function in such situations.
So I'm guessing what you really want to focus upon is RUL2 coding? Bear in mind you'll need textures, exemplars and paths too for anything you make to work. In fact, without those first two, starting on the RUL2 code is rather pointless.
I was working on an RUL2 tutorial, going through an example step by step. It's 90% complete now, but I had a long hiatus with it and right now simply don't have the time to finish it off. But I do hope eventually and before too long, I'll be able to finalise that. To my knowledge, no such tutorial exists at present. In that case it was to make a Diagonal Viaduct Rail over Tram in Avenue override. Start with something very specific like this and open a thread in the NAM forums. Make the basic textures or models you need, then ask for assistance. Those who show aptitude and commitment to do something, will find help and assistance from the team. But many people think this stuff is easy and can simply be learned with a 10m tutorial, which is not a realistic expectation. Since it takes considerable time to explain these things and help people through the process, there is an expectation on the part of those whose time you are requesting here.
To echo mgb204's post I am all for initiative and we will help anyone who has the desire to have a go at Coding in the various RUL formats for the game.
Unfortunately the RUL stuff I do usually comes once I have created the source files. You have to code something like a set of pieces that are created to see how it all links in together.
If you are really interested you can use the various tools such as Rivit's Bender tool to make smooth curve textures and a set of graphics Programs like paint.net, GNU Image Manipulation Program (GIMP) and if you have a copy Photoshop.
You also have to have to have some knowledge of the various Modding tools like Ilive's Reader.
So this is the method I would go by...
1) Request a Test IID range from the NAM team. That way you can work with files that will not interfere with the current files. A test plugins folder is also advised.
2) make a FSH based texture like a curve or intersection and Split it up. Most easily done by using Rivit's GoFSH slice and dice section of the program.
3) If you use GoFSH the IIDs should be applied automatically within the first 4 digits with increments base on the settings.
4) All the tiles for splitup Piece should have dimensions of 128 x 128 pixels. There are some exceptions but I would not worry too much that part.
5) To avoid lagging a path file for each piece should be included "SC4Path file GID for Texture tile(s): 0x69668828" that is a FSH file and the IID should be the same as the affected Texture.
6) Once done you can start RULing. I use INRULs for draggable only pieces. We should be in a position to offer you advice on what you can use to get the piece in game.
Small steps are needed and if something does not work straight off the bat don't worry. It took us a bit to learn as well.
Hope that gives you some insight. Happy learning.
-eggman121
Quote from: superjugy on August 23, 2018, 12:30:54 PM
On another topic. Why is it that sometimes the following happens:
(https://i.imgur.com/bRWfLun.png)
but other times doesn't:
(https://i.imgur.com/Wzb1jk5.png)
How can I fix it? do I need to bulldoze the whole diamond and try again?
I didn't see what you said sooner, but did you ever get it to work? I struggle with stabilized builds myself, so if attached makes it down there, your junction almost looks like something I did, doing it your way, the games mechanics are seriously tricky, so sticking a piece down there was my only option if I wanted to guarentee it held up. Not sure if there is a push to do less puzzle pieced development, but the thing is, those were more stable than not when it came to these cross junction situations. I would love to explain how I made this happen, but it's too complex for me.
Sadly, no. I couldn't make it work, even with the one ways. The one ways fix one aspect of it which is the junction itself, but after having one ways on both sides of the interchange, then road below the highway transforms into 2 2-lane Roads instead of the TLA5. Which is kind of expected since why would there be a center lane below the Highway. But I would have to transform from TLA5 to AV4 then junction with one ways and then back to TLA5. haven't tried it yet, seems like to much hastle.
Hmm... Maybe this setup needs some unique FTLs...
Just as a follow up. I tried several combinations after some thought. I no longer used TLA5 for the interchange since you would not use the center lane anyway. instead I used the NRD4 to keep the extra capacity without the center lane. The combinations I tried where:
- RHW2 -> NRD4
- RHW2 -> OWR -> NRD4
- MIS -> NRD4
Here some screenshoots:
RHW2 -> NRD4
(https://i.imgur.com/9aigncg.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9cRM2HG.png)
I am not sure if there will be issues with this one since you can see the cars in NRD4 trying to turn left when its a right only turn.
RHW2 -> OWR -> NRD4
(https://i.imgur.com/BI9PA6u.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/epFKlfF.png)
This was a complete failure. not only the paths are wrong and the OWR its trying to U-Turn, it breaks the NRD4 beneath the RHW and transforms back into regular road.
MIS -> NRD4
(https://i.imgur.com/1pYo41b.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/FZSzCKx.png)
This looks to be the only one working both in looks and paths. I prefer the looks of the RHW2 -> NRD4 but if the path is going to give me issues, I guess I'll have to stick with the MIS. One thing though. do I lose capacity when using the MIS? according to the manual, it should have the same capacity as a RHW2, but I am not sure. This is the extract from the manual:
(https://i.imgur.com/JOoNutN.png)
If anyone can confirm both the asumptions, so that I know which one to keep, that would be great.
You won't be losing actual capacity by using MIS here. The MIS and RHW-4 have the same per-tile capacity (the MIS listing is for a single-tile width, whereas the RHW-4 is for a dual-tile width).
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 26, 2018, 04:04:02 PM
Hmm... Maybe this setup needs some unique FTLs...
The proposed QuickChange Xpress (QCX) setup I showed awhile back features exactly that.
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/rhw-02082018-1.jpg)
-Alex
I completely forgot about that piece... Yeah, that's gonna be a really useful piece, especially for a Melbourne-style city.
Quote from: Tarkus on September 27, 2018, 06:40:16 AM
You won't be losing actual capacity by using MIS here. The MIS and RHW-4 have the same per-tile capacity (the MIS listing is for a single-tile width, whereas the RHW-4 is for a dual-tile width).
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 26, 2018, 04:04:02 PM
Hmm... Maybe this setup needs some unique FTLs...
The proposed QuickChange Xpress (QCX) setup I showed awhile back features exactly that.
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/rhw-02082018-1.jpg)
-Alex
That is one sexy interchange. is there a similar one for TLA5 instead of AVE6?
If you don't lose capacity then the MIS is the best approach unless there is a sexy interchange for TLA5 like the one you posted.
If only you could have an A1 ramp in L1 RHW6 so you don't lose capacity in the main highway...
Quote from: superjugy on September 27, 2018, 07:42:46 AM
That is one sexy interchange. is there a similar one for TLA5 instead of AVE6?
. . .
If only you could have an A1 ramp in L1 RHW6 so you don't lose capacity in the main highway...
There are a couple other variants I've been playing around with for narrower networks. An Avenue/TLA-5 version is among them. As far as the L1 RHW-6S, the reason it doesn't have a Type A1 ramp (and isn't planned to receive one) is because of the overhang on the L1 RHW-6S actually collides with the MIS, producing a rather visually displeasing result.
-Alex
Yeah, I saw the in-game comment about the overhang. It's a shame though. What about TLA3?
Here's the other two designs:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/rhw-02042018-3.jpg)
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/rhw-02132018-1.jpg)
As of right now, those are the only way these are set up . . . they're FLEX-based pre-fab interchanges . . . but eventually, there will be some additional override code added to the ramp turn lanes to allow their use elsewhere.
They had been planned for NAM 37 originally, but there's been some really weird quirks in my testing that I haven't gotten to the bottom of as of yet, so right now, they're off the list, as much as I'd like them to be on there.
-Alex
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on September 27, 2018, 04:03:53 PM
Here's the other two designs:
OMG those are really sexy!!!
I see that the MIS converts to 2 lanes before the intersection. Does that mean that if you are using RHW as the ramp instead of MIS (for example using a A2 ramp on a RHW6S) you will see a similar interchange?
And is the bottom one an ARD5, NRD6 or a TLA7? can't figure it out.
Another experiment I did:
RHW2 with AVE4 from a TLA5. I believe I also tried the MIS and it worked fine too, but I forgot to take screenshots. but since the RHW2 also works and looks better. I stayed with that one.
(https://i.imgur.com/R7qlJeF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/n6xMHGi.png)
Quote from: Tarkus on September 27, 2018, 04:03:53 PM
They had been planned for NAM 37 originally, but there's been some really weird quirks in my testing that I haven't gotten to the bottom of as of yet, so right now, they're off the list, as much as I'd like them to be on there.
Oh, really? That's a shame. What seems to be the problem with them?
I keep getting confused by your terminology @superjugy, but just to be clear, when you say RHW2 are you sure you aren't mistaking it for the RHW-4 network? Network widths are determined by total lane count, not the number of lanes in a specific direction?
Quote from: APSMS on September 27, 2018, 09:58:19 PM
I keep getting confused by your terminology @superjugy, but just to be clear, when you say RHW2 are you sure you aren't mistaking it for the RHW-4 network? Network widths are determined by total lane count, not the number of lanes in a specific direction?
You are absolutely right, its RHW4, but just one half. My bad.
Quote from: superjugy on September 27, 2018, 04:46:42 PM
RHW2 with AVE4 from a TLA5. I believe I also tried the MIS and it worked fine too, but I forgot to take screenshots. but since the RHW2 also works and looks better. I stayed with that one.
Bear in mind that Road, OWR & Avenue networks are "Core" or Base networks in SC4, whereas NWM / TuLEPs are override networks. The upshot of which is that the latter will always be less stable and requires much additional code to even work. So yes, for maximum odds in any given situation, use Road or Avenue to cross/intersect with RHW, it will pretty much always work.
Tip2: The problems here are mostly due to something called adjacency code, the way SC4 RUL code works, it looks at pieces next to each other. However, when lots of networks intersect without any gaps, those adjacencies must "chain" together, meaning lots of code is required to keep overrides in place/stable. The chain can be broken, by giving a single tile of space where an override network can remain stable. This means even with less adjacency code, more configurations will remain stable, without literally millions of extra lines of code. I.e., bring the On/Off ramps one tile further away from the main RHW, leaving a one-tile gap between them, suddenly many more configurations work.
Speaking of those millions of lines of code... Tarkus did mention we've a special NAM controller we're testing, it takes the total lines of RUL from about 1.5 to 4 million. Using it allows for some seriously amazing setups, like the 3-level stacks
I showed here (http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=990.msg526354#msg526354), but asking SC4 to load 4 million lines of code takes its toll. It works for me on some modern Core i systems, but takes my Core2Duo systems out, literally the game won't load. This is the problem, technically we can add all the code to make everything work, but there are more practical limitations at some point. Not to mention, code doesn't write itself and there's only a few coders left to write anything.
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 27, 2018, 08:39:43 PM
Quote from: Tarkus on September 27, 2018, 04:03:53 PM
They had been planned for NAM 37 originally, but there's been some really weird quirks in my testing that I haven't gotten to the bottom of as of yet, so right now, they're off the list, as much as I'd like them to be on there.
Oh, really? That's a shame. What seems to be the problem with them?
There are some issues with these advanced quick-change/FTL setups which still need to be ironed out, but it's not usual for us to disclose such technical issues in full for in-progress works.
Hi there! New forum user, but long time SC4 player. One thing I've noticed through using this mod is that some 'T' intersections are not able to be built with some of the NWM networks, an example of which I've included in a hyperlink (I couldn't figure out how to resize an image in a forum post). The "draw paths" command also appears to show some abrupt disconnections of paths in the NWM intersections. I wonder if this is an oversight, or simply left as is while other projects are being worked on? The main thing I want to know is why the RD6/RD4 'T' interchange does not want to be built?
https://imgur.com/xp0iyqN (https://imgur.com/xp0iyqN)
Apologies if I misidentified the networks pictured.
Welcome to SC4D, Mochigai! You have indeed identified the networks correctly, and to answer your question about the image embedding with resizing (since this is probably useful information for many users here), the "width=" and "height=" modifiers can be added inside the initial "img" tag to control the size--the width one is probably the most useful, and this one would be what would get you the resized version of your image to a 1024px width:
[img width=1024]https://i.imgur.com/xp0iyqN.png[/img]
Now, onto the NWM question, it does indeed appear there's some funny stuff happening with the RD-4 and RD-6 intersections, and I also do not appear to be able to build that T-intersection, though the particular failure state I'm encountering is different. It did work at one time, and I'm not sure what all changed--particularly as there have been very few NWM-related changes recently--though my best guess is that it may somehow entail some of the work done to combat the interference with the Road Roundabouts plugin.
I'll take a closer look into that issue, and see what I can find. Since the solution will require RUL code modification, it would normally not be something that could be fixed until the next NAM release--unless, of course, you're up for a manual controller compile.
-Alex
Trying to build a city with no traffic lights and this construct seems to be missing paths? Otherwise it looks
good...
https://ibb.co/SRKYDc9 (https://ibb.co/SRKYDc9)
https://ibb.co/yFdFMZW (https://ibb.co/yFdFMZW)
Moved this over to the NWM thread, since the intersection here is between two NWM networks and doesn't involve the RHW. I was able to verify the issue existed here on my end, though due to the complications presented by the One-Way Road network's hardcoded "tidal flow" direction system, and some inadequacies in the base path, it's not going to be a particularly quick path fix. In the meanwhile, if you drag the OWR-3 all the way through the OWR-5 to create the "Long T", the paths are at least somewhat functional at the moment (though only one lane on the OWR-3 will carry traffic). I would consider trying that in the interim.
The whole matter of T-intersections involving One-Way Road-type networks (Maxis or NWM) ending at the OWR-4 or OWR-5 is a bit suboptimal with how the NWM is presently designed, in any case. The ones where the OWR-3 is flowing into the OWR-5 really ought to be signalized, though that can't be done with the base draggable network (OWRs don't support stop points natively), and will require a SITAP solution.
-Alex
Tarkus, I have the latest NAM downloaded, but the NWM Curve pieces, Transitions, Starter Pieces and the Triple Tile TULep's will not work in game. All I get is the red arrow. Am I missing something?
If clicking on an icon gets you the dreaded red arrow, that's a sign that while you have the icon installed, the RUL0 code that is designed to make the content under that icon work is either (a) not present in your Controller file, or (b) is being blocked by an old Controller file that is loading after your NAM Controller (only one copy of RUL0 can be loaded by the game--whatever one comes latest in the load order). Based on some of the recent issues I've seen, I'd lean toward option (a).
First, I'd recommend running the Controller Compiler manually--it's in the My Documents\SimCity 4\NAM Auxiliary Files\Tools\Controller Compiler folder by default--and try the icons again in-game after doing so. If you're still getting the red arrow, dive further into the Controller Compiler's folder--down to My Documents\SimCity 4\NAM Auxiliary Files\Tools\Controller Compiler\Network Addon Mod\Controller\RUL0\7000_Road\7A00_NWM. This is the folder that is supposed to contain the RUL0 code for the NWM Starters, Transitions, and Curves. The code for the old TuLEPs is in My Documents\SimCity 4\NAM Auxiliary Files\Tools\Controller Compiler\Network Addon Mod\Controller\RUL0\0000_TuLEPs_CanAM (specifically, a file called "0600_NWMTuLEPs.txt").
If those folders don't exist, or are empty/missing key files, then I would recommend re-installing the NAM at that point. If they are there, however, that would suggest there's either something up with the Controller Compiler's settings (check to make sure the "Network Widening Mod" box is indeed checked), or that there's an older (pre-NAM 28) copy of the RUL0 file (possibly an old NAM Controller, or an ancient pre-NAM file that modified RUL0). The NAM is supposed to seek-and-destroy such files (routines in the installer script and the built-in Cleanitol), but if the file was introduced post-NAM install, or the seek-and-destroy routine failed (which is possible), it would still be there.
The easiest way to locate a conflicting RUL0 file would be to load up ilive's Reader, open the NetworkAddonMod_Controller.dat file in Plugins\Network Addon Mod (actually, any file will work), go to Tools > Plugins Analyzer on the menu, find "NetworkAddonMod_Controller.dat" on the list, and look at the results in the right pane of the window. If the RUL file with the IID 0x10000000 (this is the RUL0 file) shows up in some shade of blue/teal/cyan, this indicates there is a conflict somewhere, and it will list all places where RUL file 0x10000000 exists in your Plugins folder. You can then easily find and remove the conflict.
ebina's thread here (https://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=9898.0) (sadly missing its images) describes this process in more detail.
Hope that helps!
-Alex
Tarkus, what I did was uninstalled the NAM completely and reinstalled a new copy everything seems to work plus a couple new icons that were not in my road menu. Might have downloaded the NAM more than once without uninstalling the old copies. Thanks for your reply everything I did check and was still getting the dreaded red arrow. That's when I uninstalled the NAM.
Quote from: Tarkus on March 17, 2019, 04:20:30 PM
The easiest way to locate a conflicting RUL0 file would be to load up ilive's Reader, open the NetworkAddonMod_Controller.dat file in Plugins\Network Addon Mod (actually, any file will work), go to Tools > Plugins Analyzer on the menu, find "NetworkAddonMod_Controller.dat" on the list, and look at the results in the right pane of the window. If the RUL file with the IID 0x10000000 (this is the RUL0 file) shows up in some shade of blue/teal/cyan, this indicates there is a conflict somewhere, and it will list all places where RUL file 0x10000000 exists in your Plugins folder. You can then easily find and remove the conflict.
That's a nifty tool. Which version of iLives are you describing?
Quote from: Tarkus on September 27, 2018, 04:03:53 PM
Here's the other two designs:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/rhw-02042018-3.jpg)
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/rhw-02132018-1.jpg)
As of right now, those are the only way these are set up . . . they're FLEX-based pre-fab interchanges . . . but eventually, there will be some additional override code added to the ramp turn lanes to allow their use elsewhere.
They had been planned for NAM 37 originally, but there's been some really weird quirks in my testing that I haven't gotten to the bottom of as of yet, so right now, they're off the list, as much as I'd like them to be on there.
-Alex
-Alex
I'll tell you what would really make me drool all over my keyboard. I like this with the two left turn lanes under RHW, and I like what I see going on at REW. I am thinking that if I had an OWR-5 entering the intersections and OWR-3 exiting those intersections, that would blow my ever lovin' mind!
Quote from: Tarkus on September 27, 2018, 06:40:16 AM
You won't be losing actual capacity by using MIS here. The MIS and RHW-4 have the same per-tile capacity (the MIS listing is for a single-tile width, whereas the RHW-4 is for a dual-tile width).
Quote from: Wiimeiser on September 26, 2018, 04:04:02 PM
Hmm... Maybe this setup needs some unique FTLs...
The proposed QuickChange Xpress (QCX) setup I showed awhile back features exactly that.
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/rhw-02082018-1.jpg)
-Alex
Oops! Wrong image!
Sitting her giggling with excitement to totally overall impressed to see the leaps and bound the entire NAM team are able to accomplish.
Quote from: jeffryfisher on March 18, 2019, 08:03:34 AM
That's a nifty tool. Which version of iLives are you describing?
I can follow the steps using 0.9.3, which I recently downloaded.
The AVE-4 to TLA-3 transition is missing paths. I have a screenshot if one is needed...
ARD-3 has no rail support, it seems...
Not seeing any problem with either issue personally:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49630548066_6d07326c3b_o.jpg)
I switched to a LHD setup and indeed there is a problem with the LHD paths. They could be missing or somehow corrupted. However, no issues with the rail crossings and so far as I know, nothing was added in the RRW code, such support was part of the original RAM project. In other words, you shouldn't need RRW installed to make these crossings. I'll try to sort a patch for the pathing issue in the coming days.
After a little digging, it appears that the IDs used for the transition are being redirected to "LHD IDs", something handled in the NAM Controller. Since such pieces should not need specific LHD paths, they don't exist and hence this is a LHD problem. For now, adding the attached file into the Network Addon Mod/Network Widening Mod folder will add a duplicate set of paths with the LHD IDs. However, the real fix is altering the controller code so these IDs don't get redirected in future.
I hope next version of NAM will fix everything and added something new. :D
This one's been requested for a long time . . . here's a peek.
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/nwm-12202020-1.jpg)
-Alex
Looks great Alex :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I am disturb by this red texture, couldn't it be more like the green one with mid yellow line out? unless you are allowed to cross these double lines
(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2020/12/20/201220060734270305.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/201220060734270305.jpg.html)
Quote from: Tarkus on December 20, 2020, 08:42:36 AM
This one's been requested for a long time . . . here's a peek.
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/nwm-12202020-1.jpg)
-Alex
Will this also work with the 3 tile networks?
Quote from: roadgeek on February 11, 2021, 07:09:46 PM
Quote from: Tarkus on December 20, 2020, 08:42:36 AM
This one's been requested for a long time . . . here's a peek.
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/nwm-12202020-1.jpg)
-Alex
Will this also work with the 3 tile networks?
Yes.
COOL! What about OWR-4 and OWR-5?
It works for all 13 override networks presently included in the NWM. The coverage of OxO (orthogonal x orthogonal) situations is identical to what the base Street network supports.
-Alex
I tried RHW-6S X Diag Ave-6, and it didn't look good at all....then I tried it with parallel OWR-3...not bad.
I rotated it to see what it looks like from the other perspective. OK, still not too bad.
Ok thanks,
But more REW just came "hot off the press" today
Lay that feedback on us man !
Just a little heads up for everyone regarding NWM development . . . I've started sketching out a code revamp for the NWM, using the same structure as the Project 57-Mark IV improvements that came to the RHW last year, and also making use of the Draggable Road Viaducts expansion code I wrote for NAM 38. The goal with this is not only to make some pretty massive improvements in terms of network stability, but also to get everything ready for the "next big thing" in NWM development: the long-awaited diagonal intersection and crossing functionality.
However, one of the major issues I've encountered in the initial groundwork is that there's some notable inconsistencies in terms of how certain intersections are rotated. These issues are, oddly enough, most prevalent with the single-tile networks, with the ARD-3--arguably the most unstable of all the NWM networks--being the biggest offender.
Unlike the original "Project 57" plan with the RHW, I am not planning on embarking on a widescale re-IIDing of everything in the NWM, and in fact, plan to keep the IID scheme for the NWM in tact, as it (mostly) works. This will potentially mean, however, that should I reorient the various intersections to be consistent, it would be necessary to rebuild these intersections (generally just a simple single click over/near them with the appropriate network tool) in order to bring them over to the proper (new) rotation.
To that end, I want to see if there are any significant objections to this prospect before I proceed. Thank you all for your thoughts and continued support of the NAM and the Network Widening Mod! :thumbsup:
-Alex
I can't really object to a code cleanup. The cleaner and more consistent the code, the easier it is to develop new features.
Quote from: Tarkus on May 11, 2021, 02:36:15 AM
the "next big thing" in NWM development: the long-awaited diagonal intersection and crossing functionality.
Now that's exciting! Before making diagonal intersections though, be sure you're happy with the paths on diagonal networks themselves. Last time I looked, TLA-7 was a little bit squeezed, with only pedestrians able to use the outermost cells. As a result, TLA-7 had no more capacity than TLA-5 when diagonal.
Don't feel like you must finish all intersections at once; it would be amazing if you just rolled out one generally useful one to start (e.g. vanilla road).
:thumbsup:
"$Deal"$ ??? :-\
lets see if it will work... &idea
:popcorn: :satisfied:
Quote from: Tarkus on May 11, 2021, 02:36:15 AM
However, one of the major issues I've encountered in the initial groundwork is that there's some notable inconsistencies in terms of how certain intersections are rotated. These issues are, oddly enough, most prevalent with the single-tile networks, with the ARD-3--arguably the most unstable of all the NWM networks--being the biggest offender.
If we don't see any improvements on ARD-3, but we get additional capabilities with AVE-6 and AVE-7, I will not be the least bit disappointed!
What revamped NWM code gets you . . . not that anyone actually needs to build an absurdity like this:
(https://simtarkus.files.wordpress.com/2021/06/nwm-06222021-1.jpg)
-Alex
Looks like NAM 42 might have to drop the NWM from Lite at this rate... Hopefully we can do it the other way around soon, too.
:o ??? :satisfied:
OWR-3 elevated perhaps?
Quote from: Wiimeiser on June 22, 2021, 07:15:08 AM
Looks like NAM 42 might have to drop the NWM from Lite at this rate... Hopefully we can do it the other way around soon, too.
Even with the beefed-up NWM code in its current state, the "LowRAM" Controller is still only about 60MB, which is under the apparent threshold where the 4GB Patch and a 64-bit operating system is necessary (in case anyone is wondering . . . we don't know the exact threshold where it becomes necessary, but considering that NAM 36's Full Controller was 103MB, it's somewhere north of there). A lot of the code gain with the NWM as part of "Project 51" (the NWM RUL2 code revamp) is with NWM x RHW situations, so that gets stripped out in the generation of the "LowRAM" Controller. Whether or not that'll remain the case once all the eventual diagonal intersection work is completed remains to be seen.
I will also note . . . the unfinished/legacy "as-is" NWM diagonal intersections that we left in as a sort of "Easter egg" back with NAM 30/NWM 2.0 a decade ago will no longer work with the new code. They were never officially supported in their existing form, in any case, and their rotations and IIDs are kind of all over the place, and as a result, we've determined it's going to be necessary to start fresh with them.
Quote from: roadgeek on July 19, 2021, 09:17:49 PM
OWR-3 elevated perhaps?
NWM Viaducts are on the list for future additions, but they're not going to be part of NAM 42. We're still working out just when they'll be phased into the mod. There's been some debate about whether NWM Viaducts in some form should come before diagonal at-grade intersections.
-Alex
I mentioned on the Discord that diagonal intersections should be given priority since we already have base network viaducts...
Indeed, the diagonal at-grade support has been my inclination as well. The viaducts are also going to require some model work, which is always slower going with our limited resources on that front. Much can be done with slight modifications to the existing Viaducts, to my knowledge, but if lots of custom geometry is required, that will slow that project down considerably when it comes time to do it.
-Alex
My vote is with the Diagonal NWMs as well. In fact, I would also vote to introduce FANWM before we venture too much more into viaducts. I will acknowledge though, that could possibly require new flex/starter pieces, but of course, so would new viaducts.
EDIT: Come to think of it...we have had draggable FAR and draggable FARR, but I'm guessing there are major hurdles involved in trying to get the FAOWR and FAAVE to cooperate with RUL-2 code.
Quote from: roadgeek on July 24, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
EDIT: Come to think of it...we have had draggable FAR and draggable FARR, but I'm guessing there are major hurdles involved in trying to get the FAOWR and FAAVE to cooperate with RUL-2 code.
FANWM's been on the drawing board since the NWM fully restarted development with
superhands and myself back in 2009. There's actually prototypes of old FANWM puzzle pieces sitting in the network .dat files, even, though obviously, doing a puzzle-based solution is a no-go in this era of NAM development.
One of the big projects that I would deem somewhat necessary before getting to that point is FLEX versions of the FA content. People have a hard enough time with the drag patterns for some of the existing FAR/FARR stuff (and draggable FAAVE or multi-tile FANWM is just asking for trouble), which is why
eggman121 added FLEX versions of the RRW FA setups awhile ago. Additionally, the implementation I've been experimenting with for FLEX FA will actually cut down on the amount of RUL2 required by quite a bit.
-Alex
I wonder if this FLEX FA could be used with the RHW-2...
For viaducts vs diagonal intersections, intersections first since we already have viaducts to base the viaducts on. Also, I think OWR-1 and OWR-3 should get priority for viaducts as part of the REW.
Quote from: Wiimeiser on July 28, 2021, 02:31:02 AM
I wonder if this FLEX FA could be used with the RHW-2...
That's the plan. Draggable FARHW is a non-starter due to the infernal auto-connect business.
Quote from: Wiimeiser on July 28, 2021, 02:31:02 AM
For viaducts vs diagonal intersections, intersections first since we already have viaducts to base the viaducts on. Also, I think OWR-1 and OWR-3 should get priority for viaducts as part of the REW.
There's going to need to be some modifications of the existing Viaduct models in order to make versions of them that will fit certain NWM networks. The degree of work required there is an unknown, though I'd argue that if we did indeed already have the model geometry we needed done . . . that would actually make a stronger case for doing the Viaducts earlier.
The NWM OWRs and the Triple-Tile networks would probably be highest on the list--the latter because it'd be nice to finally have that without people having to switch to RHW-6C, and allow more compact highway-to-surface interchanges (since the 6C doesn't allow at-grade intersections at any height).
-Alex
Quote from: Tarkus on July 27, 2021, 02:46:39 AM
Quote from: roadgeek on July 24, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
EDIT: Come to think of it...we have had draggable FAR and draggable FARR, but I'm guessing there are major hurdles involved in trying to get the FAOWR and FAAVE to cooperate with RUL-2 code.
FANWM's been on the drawing board since the NWM fully restarted development with superhands and myself back in 2009. There's actually prototypes of old FANWM puzzle pieces sitting in the network .dat files, even, though obviously, doing a puzzle-based solution is a no-go in this era of NAM development.
One of the big projects that I would deem somewhat necessary before getting to that point is FLEX versions of the FA content. People have a hard enough time with the drag patterns for some of the existing FAR/FARR stuff (and draggable FAAVE or multi-tile FANWM is just asking for trouble), which is why eggman121 added FLEX versions of the RRW FA setups awhile ago. Additionally, the implementation I've been experimenting with for FLEX FA will actually cut down on the amount of RUL2 required by quite a bit.
-Alex
Any screen shots, by any chance?
The prototypes never made it to the point of being in-game, to my recollection. If they did, any screenshots almost certainly fell victim to the collapse of/changes with the image hosting sites that were prevalent in that era.
Much like the diagonal intersection expansion, I'd expect any FANWM work with the planned FLEX implementation would be done in phases, probably with the base straight and curve sections done first, and quite a bit of time before we even start to think about doing the intersections.
-Alex
Sorry, I should have clarified the screenshots I was hoping to see.
Quote from: Tarkus on July 27, 2021, 02:46:39 AM
the implementation I've been experimenting with for FLEX FA
As far as screenshots of the new FLEX FAR prototype go, it's still . . . classified (though some of the stuff it does would be indistinguishable from existing forms of FAR in a screenshot). An early version of it did actually make it into an internal testing build of NAM 42, it was cut pretty early on, as it was going to require a lot of work to finish it alongside the other planned additions.
-Alex
It's so fun to talk about FANWM. It's like one of those things I have been dreaming about for such a long time!
concerning NAM 37vr updates to 38, 39 40... %confuso
do u have a notion as to what or how features will be
added and integrated ... ()what()
as in, issues with the NWM...
will those improvements come over teh integrated
next releases or be held up til vr40?...
and there were blips of new stuff for teh RRW will those
improvements come in vr 38 or later... ???
any proposals :-\ cleared to be shared yet?
:thumbsup: looks all good...
so we shall see... :popcorn:
Quote from: Jack_wilds on August 07, 2021, 04:05:24 PM
concerning NAM 37vr updates to 38, 39 40... %confuso
do u have a notion as to what or how features will be
added and integrated ... ()what()
as in, issues with the NWM...
will those improvements come over teh integrated
next releases or be held up til vr40?...
and there were blips of new stuff for teh RRW will those
improvements come in vr 38 or later... ???
NAM 37, 38, 39, and 40 are all dead and gone already. The current available version is NAM 41, released back at the end of April 2021, and we're presently in internal testing on Build 08 for NAM 42 (which is probably going to reach a pretty high internal build number, simply because of the size of the feature set).
We committed to dramatically speeding up our release cycles after NAM 37's 3-year-long development cycle proved very unpleasant for both the NAM Team and for the SC4 community. And I'm pleased to say we've accomplished that.
NAM 42 will include the big NWM code revamp, and it lays the groundwork for the eventual phased introduction of proper diagonal intersection support in subsequent releases in the near future.
-Alex
sorry :crytissue:
my bad &ops
knew better but for whatever reason did not catch teh error...
the proposals sound like its gonna be a great series of NAM updates...
looking forward to each of 'em...
Quote from: Tarkus on August 08, 2021, 02:32:43 AMNAM 37, 38, 39, and 40 are all dead and gone already. The current available version is NAM 41, released back at the end of April 2021, and we're presently in
Wow! That was only two years ago, and now we are at NAM47!