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Sim City 4 Devotion Tools => SC4PIM (PIM-X/X-Tool) => Tools - General Discussion => PIM-X'd => Topic started by: xxdita on August 06, 2010, 04:15:48 AM

Title: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: xxdita on August 06, 2010, 04:15:48 AM
Before we kick things off officially, I thought we'd have a pre-launch party.

Step 1: Dig the sexy hexes & download the PIM-X'd Essentials from the LEX! (click the pic)

(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/222/pimxdimg1.jpg) (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=2446)

Step 2: Create a folder named PIMXd in your Plugins folder.
Step 3: Check back throughout the week as we bring you some great stuff!
Step 4: Let us know if you'd like to help out or if there's a certain building you'd like to see redone. The better the building looks, the faster it'll get done, so make the requests good ones!
Title: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: xxdita on August 06, 2010, 05:07:55 AM
This is the PIM-X'd version of The Summit, which was released by jtportland on the STEX a few years ago. It is the first PIM-X'd Stage 15 (CS)! It grows on a 3x4 lot and has a .80 filling degree. The model can be found here (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=4574). Revisited by Casper.

(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1434/thesummitpimxd.jpg)

The revisited version can be found in the attachment.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: TheTeaCat on August 06, 2010, 05:22:44 AM
Thank you very much  :thumbsup:

One day I hope to see this grow :D

Derry
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: xxdita on August 06, 2010, 05:24:33 AM
Please be aware that guests cannot view any attachments!!!

You will need to be a registered member of SC4D to get the goods!!!!
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: rooker1 on August 06, 2010, 07:08:30 AM
 Thank you for this great addition and to all that have put in the hard work behind the scene on this project.

Robin  &apls
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: xxdita on August 07, 2010, 05:26:02 PM
I don't think you guys are as excited about this as I am. But perhaps another taste, once again thanks to Casper.

This is the PIM-X'd version of the Chronos Palm Condos, which was released by DuskTrooper on the STEX a few years ago. It is now a CAMeLot (Stage 10 R and Stage 12 R). They grow on a 3x4 lot (in the Houston and Euro tilesets) and have a .65 filling degree The model can be found here (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=4429).

(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp328/CasperVg/PIMXd_ChronosPalm.jpg)

The revisited version can be found in the attachment.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: grey_wolf07 on August 08, 2010, 01:13:18 AM
Looking good. So glad you guys are doing this. I'll keep an eye out at this place, because I have a feeling this is gonna go big. &apls Keep up the good work.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: MutantPlatypus on August 08, 2010, 06:03:56 AM
I think I have some PIM-X'd high capacity hospitals if you'd like.  Do the PIM-X formulae apply to hospitals well?  I found I had to edit some of the values myself.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: xxdita on August 08, 2010, 07:58:35 AM
PIMX should be able to handle hospitals properly. Which values did you have to set yourself?
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: MutantPlatypus on August 08, 2010, 11:42:06 AM
Um... all of them? :P  Basically, I tried recalculating the Maxis clinic and hospital using just the filling degree, and I had to go to a pretty high filling degree for the clinic and low degree for the large medical center.

P.S.  Is this the right thread?  I feel like this should be in a PIM-X noob thread.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: xxdita on August 08, 2010, 11:58:21 AM
As long as my thread gets bumped I don't mind  :D

As I said, PIMX should calculate the values properly, as long as you have the latest New Properties XML from the LEX. (Search under Ripplejet). Tweaking everything manually kinda defeats the purpose of this project though :P
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: MutantPlatypus on August 08, 2010, 02:02:33 PM
I have the latest New Properties XML, but I think I found an error.  Try recomputing the properties of the Medical Clinic.  You have to set its filling degree as 1 to get the default patient capacity of 500, and its coverage radius is a little larger when recomputed at that capacity.  I'd say the clinic is a 1/3, 1/2 at the most.  The Large Medical Center has issues, too.  To get a patient capacity near the default of 3000, a filling degree of .284 is needed.  That thing is at least 1/2 if not 3/4.  Anyway, even if I'm not understanding filling degrees, I can't get all the properties to match up, as at a capacity of 3000 its coverage radius is reduced by a little, its power consumption is cut by a tenth, and there may be other issues.

Right now I'm making a spreadsheet of the Maxis hospitals.  It has their data, plus some of their ratios (like patients / tile, cost per patient, patients per m^3, garbage per patient, patient density cost efficiency, etc).  Elsewhere, lowkee said he was willing to do an exhaustive measurement of building sizes to compute filling degrees.  If these are indeed errors, maybe he could get a really accurate filling degree for these two buildings so the coefficients for the formlae can be corrected?
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: Lowkee33 on August 08, 2010, 03:25:45 PM
This is starting to be a PIMX general support issue, and perhaps should belong there.  We are trying to mesh quality BATs with balanced stats.

So you want exhaustive?  I took a screen capture of the building in its LOD and opened it in paint.  I then drew my own LOD-type lines around the different shapes of the buildings while keeping track of the x-y coordinates.  I then knew the general volume of the building.  I then measured the volume of the LOD in the same manner and compared the two.  I am not going to calculate my margin of error :)

Health Clinic: .263
Hospital: .483

PIMX does not give the SC4 stats.  However, there is no reason to assume that SC4 stats make sense compared to the size of the building.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: MutantPlatypus on August 08, 2010, 03:47:58 PM
This is starting to be a PIMX general support issue, and perhaps should belong there.  We are trying to mesh quality BATs with balanced stats.

Well, xxdita can move my messages if it gets to be that way.  So far, I'm just helping him bump his thread :).  I don't mind either way.

So you want exhaustive?  I took a screen capture of the building in its LOD and opened it in paint.  I then drew my own LOD-type lines around the different shapes of the buildings while keeping track of the x-y coordinates.  I then knew the general volume of the building.  I then measured the volume of the LOD in the same manner and compared the two.  I am not going to calculate my margin of error :)

Health Clinic: .263
Hospital: .483

Wow, thanks Lowkee!  I was going to wait for xxdita to confirm it was actually needed before I asked you go through all that work.  You are ridiculously awesome.  Thanks!  That means the clinic and hospital only allow 0.94 and 0.06 cubic meters, respectively to each patient  :o.  That;s a tight fit... of course, they're probably not all in there at the same time.

PIMX does not give the SC4 stats.  However, there is no reason to assume that SC4 stats make sense compared to the size of the building.

Yeah, 17 doctors for one small clinic seems like a bit much, but I assumed the PIM-X was trying to stay on the same curve as Maxis, since I didn't really find any hospitals along the same quality stats as the RCI growables.  All I was saying was that the PIM-X formula didn't fit the Maxis curve for hospitals.  If thats how it was intended, I'll work with it.  I'll gladly PIM-X the hospitals I use from the STEX and LEX with that.... but I won't use them, as their capacities tend to a be a bit low.  What I'm going on is an (unreferenced) Wikipedia entry that says New York has 20 public hospitals that served 1.5 million people in 1998.  Thats 75,000 people served per hospital!  I find that about 40,000 (if i remember right) was the number of patients at my one hospital that covered a city of 300,000 residents.  I'm looking at hospitals that serve those kinds of capacities, between 20,000 and 80,000 patients.  It would take 7 Maxis hospitals to serve that many patients, and you would have to constantly adjust ambulance funding whenever building occupancy changed.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: xxdita on August 08, 2010, 04:16:24 PM
Now you see why we've so far focused on growable RCI's Much less complicated :P

If you're merely updating the building desc, try creating a new one entirely with the same building, and then a new lot for it. That may make the difference. But clinics are fundamentally different than hospitals in real life, so there's no reason they shouldn't be in SC4 as well.

A clinic is generally for the not-quite emergency medical situations, where patients spend longer filling out the insurance paperwork than they do with an actual doctor.

Hospitals are for more serious issues, and may be equipped with Trauma Centers that serve a much greater region than the hospital otherwise would, by using Emergency Airlift Helicopters.

Of course any of these things can effect a hospital or clinic's service radius. Or at least give you enough leeway to not worry about an absolutely exact FD, or to change the stats as you feel are appropriate for your own game play. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's suitable for everyone.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: MutantPlatypus on August 08, 2010, 04:54:07 PM
Firstly, I'm going to try to keep "clinics" and "medical centers" separate.  "Hospital" refers to both.  I refer to clinics as urgent care centers, outpatient clinics, etc., and medical centers as inpatient care with a high level ER and at least one OR.  With that cleared up...

Aw... I thought you would want some hospitals for the CAM though.  I've got my own set working just fine, I just thought I'd concentrate on hospitals because they're a bit more complicated and weren't getting as much love as the RCI growables.  There are a couple nice ones on the STEX, and couple here on the LEX that could use fixing (for example, Bywater Springs has a capacity of 160,000 and a monthly cost of about 424.)  I was just bringing the oddities in the PIM-X hospitals to your attention.  Like I said, if it's supposed to work like that I'm not complaining. Is it working as intended? Well... not complaining too much.

There are two different groups for hospitals (actually, four), and clinics are separate from medical centers so having two different curves isn't out of the question.  I also wasn't planning on PIM-Xing the rural hospitals as their large coverage radius and low capacity probably wouldn't fit on a normal curve, and are perfectly legit as they are now.  One thing I need to know is how to change the groups.  Some of the high capacity hospitals are in the Clinic group  ???
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: xxdita on August 08, 2010, 06:05:13 PM
By all means, I think that especially the Urban Jungle kind of player (monkeys & doozers included) needs options for high capacity civics of all kinds. SimGoober does have a good variety of these already, but there's just never enough, is there?

I think my biggest complaint is the lack of private schools, but considering the LUA script needed, I certainly understand.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: CasperVg on August 10, 2010, 12:12:28 AM
Time for another teaser...

This is the PIM-X'd version of the Lippo Centre, made by paulvmontfort and uploaded to the STEX back in August 2007. It used to be a CO-$$, but I remodded it to function as a High Tech Industrial (stage 10), to give some competition to the SOMY I-HTs  ::). The original (and the dependencies) can be found here
 (http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/details.cfm?id=18531).

(http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/130/lippocentrepimx.jpg)

The revisited version can be found in the attachment.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: ScottFTL on August 10, 2010, 05:51:47 PM
This is the PIM-X'd version of the Lippo Centre, made by paulvmontfort and uploaded to the STEX back in August 2007. It used to be a CO-$$, but I remodded it to function as a High Tech Industrial (stage 10), to give some competition to the SOMY I-HTs

Is this version different from the one created by BarbyW (http://sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1413)?
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: RippleJet on August 10, 2010, 08:30:12 PM
(for example, Bywater Springs has a capacity of 160,000 and a monthly cost of about 424.)

You need to compare the Bywater Springs to the ingame Disease Center, which is a reward with a much higher plop cost.
The Disease Center as such may actually be considered a cheat by Maxis... ::)


There are two different groups for hospitals (actually, four), and clinics are separate from medical centers so having two different curves isn't out of the question.

Quite right. ;)
When I developed the formulas for the hospitals we were only working with one category,
and the result was a compromise which would work for all of them, without giving exactly the same result.

I'm all open to suggestions on how to improve the formulas for the patient capacities.
Most other properties rely on the patient capacity.


One thing I need to know is how to change the groups.  Some of the high capacity hospitals are in the Clinic group  ???

Medical Clinic:
Must have Occupant Group 0x1513, but neither 0x151A nor 0x151C.

Hospital with Helicopter:
Must have Occupant Groups 0x1513 and 0x151A, but not 0x151C.

Medical Center with Helicopter:
Must have Occupant Group 0x151C and Budget Item Department 0xAA538CB3 (Health Coverage)

Disease Center:
Must have Occupant Group 0x151C, but not Budget Item Department 0xAA538CB3 (Health Coverage)
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: MutantPlatypus on August 10, 2010, 09:06:06 PM
You need to compare the Bywater Springs to the ingame Disease Center, which is a reward with a much higher plop cost.
The Disease Center as such may actually be considered a cheat by Maxis... ::)

Not quite, because the disease research center boosts HQ a lot less than the clinic and hospital.  Note the hospital effectiveness vs age of the disease reasearch center:  0,3,100,3.  I still don't quite understand what those do, (only and 3% 8% effective?  Is the HQ boost something accumulated over time?) but the 3s are less than the 8s the medical centers and clinics have, so I just assume the disease research center has less "oomph" to compensate for its increased capacity.  The HQ boost value is also measly 3.2, compared to the 11.52 of both the clinic and the large medical center.  (The farmer's market has .1)  The disease research center isn't a cheap, high-capacity hospital.

I just checked, and neither is Bywater.  You're right :).  I didn't realize Bywater also had its HQ boost reduced, but its effectiveness vs average age is the same as a hospital.  I just assumed it was a full-effect hospital, as its description led me to believe.

Quote
I'm all open to suggestions on how to improve the formulas for the patient capacities.
Most other properties rely on the patient capacity.

I'll have some suggestions and measurements soon.
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: StormThief24 on August 12, 2010, 12:11:18 AM
Dunno if this is the right place for this, but did anyone ever make CAMeLOTs of SimRabbit's towers here? http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2977.0

If not then this is a request assuming there's no copyright to deal with.  ()what()
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: ScottFTL on August 12, 2010, 12:30:29 PM
Dunno if this is the right place for this, but did anyone ever make CAMeLOTs of SimRabbit's towers here? http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2977.0

If not then this is a request assuming there's no copyright to deal with.  ()what()

I believe there will be a request thread once the PIM-X'd Project is officially launched.  Right now, this is just a sneak peek.  It shouldn't be too much longer now.

This is a great suggestion, though.  They are fantastic models.  I can't promise anything just yet, but I'll have a look at updating these.   &Thk/(
Title: Re: PIMXd Sneak Preview Week Begins!
Post by: gtaki on August 13, 2010, 12:11:24 AM
I believe there will be a request thread once the PIM-X'd Project is officially launched.  Right now, this is just a sneak peek.  It shouldn't be too much longer now.

This is a great suggestion, though.  They are fantastic models.  I can't promise anything just yet, but I'll have a look at updating these.   &Thk/(

For those SR buildings I have PIMX'd them some times ago. Would the team need them?
I dont know my version is suitable or not since I have just modded the original files on STEX to CAMpatible and keep the old TGIs.

and glad to see this project begins   ;D&apls