About permission to upload

[Kergelen]

Long time I have questions about the permission from creators to upload mods or lots with dependencies that are not my creations.

I've been reading the discussion in Benoit Lot Factory about permissions.

I made some lots and mods for my region and I'm thinking to share some but I wonder if I have to PM all the creators to ask for permission. As I understood from the time I'm in the community I don't need to ask permission if I make a list of dependencies. Is this right?
But, in other case, if in the dependency there are only props and I made some new desc. files, in this case I have to ask for permission to every creator. Right? Another example: I made prop families with VIP cars, and more MMP with CP Prop pack2; can I upload them linking the dependency or I have to PM creators?

I once asked permission directly to some creators, but I have not upload anything seeing the quantity of dependencies the lots have, and the quantity of PMs I have to send

[catty]

Hi Kergelen

Someone will look into it, in the meantime I am locking the topic in question.

catty (Global Moderator)

[vortext]

But, in other case, if in the dependency there are only props and I made some new desc. files, in this case I have to ask for permission to every creator. Right? Another example: I made prop families with VIP cars, and more MMP with CP Prop pack2; can I upload them linking the dependency or I have to PM creators?

Using existing models to create new content is fine, wether it's desc files for props, MMPs, growables or plop lots. You don't have to ask permission before uploading any of this as long as you link to the dependencies needed (i.e. the model files or proppack). Problem comes when you include those files into your download, thus making another copy of them available. In general this isn't accepted unless there's explicit permission from the authors themselves.

[Silur]

Well, I can work with any Prop Packs without any permissions and I must have permission from Artist for MODEL file ?
Is it right ? I think - it is right ...
And more I can work with any MODEL files for my own CJ with LE,XPIM and IliveReader without any extending ...
Yes ?

[jmyers2043]

Well, I can work with any Prop Packs without any permissions and I must have permission from Artist for MODEL file ?
Is it right ? I think - it is right ...
And more I can work with any MODEL files for my own CJ with LE,XPIM and IliveReader without any extending ...
Yes ?

Here is the policy statement from the LEX: If you upload someone else's creation without permission your Access will be terminated.

Silur, From this I'm confident that you can do anything you wish for your own city journal and as long as it stays on your own computer. No permissions are necessary. In your case, the important word of the policy is 'upload'. No uploading, no problems.   



- Jim

[Silur]

Yes, Mr. Jim ...
This is my way and strong line - I can do everything only for my CJ. And there are many days before my "Santana Island" CJ for public ... 

[weixc812]

I have been thinking about this problem for long too...

    I hold that we'd better not make LOTs using a long list of dependencies. If we do so, we have to PM the makers of the original BAT and it's unreal that we PM them one by one for permission.

    In fact I believe, trying to make LOTs with a lot of props coming from different MEGA packs or BATs is not necessary. I am a LE mania and I do understand our initial point of sharing our LOT creation. But it may only make sense to ourselves, since to the users, their actually needs(where to put certain props) may differ from what we set. Then they still have to use LE to realize what they want. For example, I barely use FrankU's Dutch style relots just because I can make the ones alike myself, which are closer to those I want.

    If someone wants to do something good for us LEers, I think he should try modelling(BATing) but not LOT making. Then it will not be problematic at all and it's the thing we LEers really love.

[Silur]

I can't see any problems with this ...
1. If I creating some lot with LE or SC4PIM with a legal PROPS PACK (from LEX,STEX,PLEX, etc.) - I must show BATer's name (may be a link).
2. If I creating some lot with LE or SC4PIM with an ORIGINAL MODEL file - I can't distribute this anyway ( on LEX, STEX, PLEX, etc.) without Author's permission.
It's very clear for me ...

 

[FrankU]

    I hold that we'd better not make LOTs using a long list of dependencies. If we do so, we have to PM the makers of the original BAT and it's unreal that we PM them one by one for permission.

    In fact I believe, trying to make LOTs with a lot of props coming from different MEGA packs or BATs is not necessary. I am a LE mania and I do understand our initial point of sharing our LOT creation. But it may only make sense to ourselves, since to the users, their actually needs(where to put certain props) may differ from what we set. Then they still have to use LE to realize what they want. For example, I barely use FrankU's Dutch style relots just because I can make the ones alike myself, which are closer to those I want.

    If someone wants to do something good for us LEers, I think he should try modelling(BATing) but not LOT making. Then it will not be problematic at all and it's the thing we LEers really love.

Hi Weixc812,
It is not because you mentioned my work, but still you triggered me to react.

First of all: it is permitted to make lots, desc files, prop families, etc as much as you like. You may also upload these without permission. You may, however, not upload something that is made by someone else. So you may not upload someone else's lots, bat's, prop family files, textures, dll's, exe's, jpg's etc etc..
If these are needed for your upload to function, you must point to the original files as dependencies. It is not that hard....

And yes, it is possible for any of us to make their own lots. From that point of view it is not necessary to upload lots. Although some may have more talent than others 
But.... not everybody would feel, like I do, to work more than a year on a set of farm lots.... So for the lazy ones, or better said; the ones that like to spend their time on something else than lotting, it can be very nice to have lots that are ready made by others.
You could also say that for bat's: surely I will be able to make bat's myself. I just need a lot of time to get acquainted with the software needed for that, the rules that apply to making good quality bat's, the time to select the buildings I want to make bat's of.... In other words: I could do everything by myself, but I would have to quit my job, divorce from my wife, dump my children at the kindergarden's and sit at my computer all day.... And I would still not be able to play the game I wanted.

No no, the community is there to share products in order for all of us to be able to go on playing the game in a better way and still have the time to deal with some essential RL issues like jobs, marriage, making and devouring food, sleeping etc. 

Thank you for your patience,

FrankU

[weixc812]

    I hold that we'd better not make LOTs using a long list of dependencies. If we do so, we have to PM the makers of the original BAT and it's unreal that we PM them one by one for permission.

    In fact I believe, trying to make LOTs with a lot of props coming from different MEGA packs or BATs is not necessary. I am a LE mania and I do understand our initial point of sharing our LOT creation. But it may only make sense to ourselves, since to the users, their actually needs(where to put certain props) may differ from what we set. Then they still have to use LE to realize what they want. For example, I barely use FrankU's Dutch style relots just because I can make the ones alike myself, which are closer to those I want.

    If someone wants to do something good for us LEers, I think he should try modelling(BATing) but not LOT making. Then it will not be problematic at all and it's the thing we LEers really love.

Hi Weixc812,
It is not because you mentioned my work, but still you triggered me to react.

First of all: it is permitted to make lots, desc files, prop families, etc as much as you like. You may also upload these without permission. You may, however, not upload something that is made by someone else. So you may not upload someone else's lots, bat's, prop family files, textures, dll's, exe's, jpg's etc etc..
If these are needed for your upload to function, you must point to the original files as dependencies. It is not that hard....

And yes, it is possible for any of us to make their own lots. From that point of view it is not necessary to upload lots. Although some may have more talent than others 
But.... not everybody would feel, like I do, to work more than a year on a set of farm lots.... So for the lazy ones, or better said; the ones that like to spend their time on something else than lotting, it can be very nice to have lots that are ready made by others.
You could also say that for bat's: surely I will be able to make bat's myself. I just need a lot of time to get acquainted with the software needed for that, the rules that apply to making good quality bat's, the time to select the buildings I want to make bat's of.... In other words: I could do everything by myself, but I would have to quit my job, divorce from my wife, dump my children at the kindergarden's and sit at my computer all day.... And I would still not be able to play the game I wanted.

No no, the community is there to share products in order for all of us to be able to go on playing the game in a better way and still have the time to deal with some essential RL issues like jobs, marriage, making and devouring food, sleeping etc. 

Thank you for your patience,

FrankU

Ah...You were not supposed to see this, FrankU 
   
    I didn't mean that your LOTs are not good. In fact, they are pretty good. I just cited them as an explaination to my point, since I often see your uploads on ST that I only have you in my mind.  I fully admit that your work(or someone else's alike) makes sense to a large group of players, at least it mostly receives 5 stars rating.
   
    Personally I don't know whether making others' files as dependencies is illegal or whether it may rise problems. I hope it not. Maybe the official should stand out and make it clear.

I'm sorry for anything that may be misleading..

Nick

[FrankU]

Hi Nick,

No no, I did not think you said that my lots were not good. I did understand you perfecly there, you named them as an example.
It's just.... well, making lot is fun for me, and apparently for you too. Others like to do other things, like actually playing the game which I haven't done for a year or so.
I just wanted to point out that it can be useful to share your products, even though others can do it themselves.

The most important remark was about what you may and what you may not do with other one's work.
You may not upload it! That is all. Otherwise you can do with it whatever you want: eat it, stick it on your cupboards, sing the melodies you see in them, throw them out of the window, descramble the secret combinations in the FSH files, cram them on lots, MMP them onto your farmfields, mirror, scale, edit, rotate, jump them with Model Tweaker.... you name it. AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT UPLOAD THEM!

Frank

[Ol.S / Benoit]

Hi guys !

As I feel a bit concerned, I will reply to this topic !

FrankU :

No no, the community is there to share products in order for all of us to be able to go on playing the game in a better way and still have the time to deal with some essential RL issues like jobs, marriage, making and devouring food, sleeping etc.

That was my thought process, just wanted to make it easy for people including the models in the pack, but I was wrong, ok !

We are very few people here to name the creators in our MDs, and I do it sometimes, also and mostly on the French website, with some links to their work because I feel that I owe it to the community and the creators... That was also the idea for this pack, the upload was not for me !
Also, I was not about to upload it to the LEX of course... just for the few people who follow my thread. (It's just like PM actually...)

Now my topic is locked, I'm disrespectful and no one even talked about my work... (Nothing impressive but anyway...) No big deal but I feel a bit disappointed, as I was also working on a tutorial in the same time. Considering what I was doing, I think it was a bit agressive.

Benoit.
And again, thanks to all the creators !

[Rayden]

Don't feel disappointed by the lack of critics on your work, which  is very good indeed and many people would be glad to use it. The point is that, by including the props/models from somebody else, it goes against the rules here, and most of the SC4 websites. As long you don't include them and point them as dependencies, nothing is wrong. I understand you want to make things easier to the people, but by doing that, not even goes against the rules but will also cause people who already have some of those props/models to have in the end, duplicates scattered all over the plugins files.  Keep up the good work 

[noahclem]

@ Benoit - Your work is really high-quality and I really appreciate the unique style your attempting, producing lots that are designed not as finished products but to be detailed with MMPs by the user. It's not for everybody but to those of us that would like to try it it would be a very valuable thing that we would appreciate you sharing. I guess Rayden says it about perfectly. I hope you continue and don't get too frustrated. Even if it weren't for the rules I would still prefer you release a version without the model files because I already have all of those model files in my plugins so having them twice would just make the game take longer to load.

Thank you and please keep up the great work 

@ FrankU / on the subject of lotting - As I've told you many times, I really enjoy your work. I'm capable of Lotting myself but I can't do it as well as talented lotters such as you and as you suggested, I would much prefer to spend my time doing something else with SC4. So, thank you 

@ Nick / on the subject of SC China - I understand that there are special problems for Chinese users accessing other sites and that you have something of a special reason for re-uploading other people's work. I'm not an uploader though so I can't speak for how they feel about having their work re-uploaded without permission. It would be really nice if the people at your website could do something to make their files more available to the international community though--it's very, very hard to register and download over there (I've tried several times and never succeeded) and I hope there's some way it could be made easier so all of our communities are able to share our work with each other. Just a suggestion....

[catty]

...Now my topic is locked, I'm disrespectful and no one even talked about my work... (Nothing impressive but anyway...) No big deal but I feel a bit disappointed, as I was also working on a tutorial in the same time. Considering what I was doing, I think it was a bit agressive....

Hi Ol.S / Benoit

It was explained via PM why your topic was temporarily locked as the SC4D staff wanted a chance to discuss the site policy re dependencies and other issues that had come up in your topic.

I respect all the opinions people have posted, but we will take your opinions into consideration in our discussions, until then this topic is locked as well.

Please feel free to PM anyone of the site staff with any comments you wish to make on this subject.

catty (Global Moderator)

[catty]

Hi Guys

This topic has now been unlocked, please see this post, I have quoted the relevant sections here

...the site rules on the forums and also on the LEX where it is clearly stated "If you upload someone else's creation without permission your Access will be terminated" will remain, but we may make changes to the forum rules to make this very clear to people....

...As for the issue raised regarding the chinese site copying people's work to their site, I would hope that every effort is made to contact those people and get their permission, I know I would be OK at having my stuff copied for the reasons given, as long as no-one expected me to provide support for them and I was clearly identified as the creator...

...Anyone who wishes to discuss this further, please PM me...

Catty (Global Moderator)