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NAM: Development

Started by memo, April 29, 2007, 06:33:33 AM

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gn_leugim

 :o :o :o :o I?m looking for something soft where I can faint into...  &apls &apls &apls

APSMS

I'd have to agree with Matt. While these look incredible--no doubt when they are released I will use them--I would say that roundabouts in Southern California are generally a pain to drive through (We're used to slip lanes, not yielding). The only one I can think of that's not antagonizing is one in Orange, CA, and I think it's because it's in a relatively low-traffic city. This design at least allows for driver destination indicators by having the designated turn lanes, so that problem is solve. What is the base network for this roundabout, anyway?
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dragonshardz

Quote from: MandelSoft on April 01, 2013, 06:09:08 AM


The only issue I have is the hard angle on the inner part - maybe it could do with a more gradual transition?


j-dub

Great and Powerful Mandel, I hope this is not an April Fools joke. EA did the worst thing today by confirming their trolling attitude on facebook, but I won't go there.

That exists in the US, with half those arrows like the European original, I've been on one, and I still am a little confused. Without the arrows may have been better, IDK.

Swordmaster

The big question, of course, is how do you drive on it? I'm quite certain I'd end up in the wrong lane.

And some people think driving a train is complicated :D


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io_bg

While we don't have such roundabouts here, this looks pretty cool!
Quote from: dragonshardz on April 01, 2013, 06:32:37 PM
The only issue I have is the hard angle on the inner part - maybe it could do with a more gradual transition?
My thoughts exactly! The inner lane starts too "abruptly".
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MandelSoft

Look man, I've had a lecture from the man who came up with the whole design concept and he explained his whole concept. Some things came out of research:
- There are slightly raised kerbs between the lanes on the roundabout, low enough for long trucks to go over them them slowly, but high enough to prevent the rest of the traffic from switching lanes. This is not only safer for car traffic (no weaving), but also safer for motorcyclists.
- The center is partioally paved to allow long trucks with large turn radii to use the roundabout
- Arrow markings on the roundabout had no significant effect. Arrows in advance of the roundabout are very important on the contrary, and so is clear signage in advance of the roundabout.
- You need large signs in the center on eye-height to "block off the horizon". This way, people notice the roundabout earlier.
- The first designs had more gradual lane entrances, like the one Tarkus showed. The problem of those was that some people driving on the roundabout thought their  lane continued on the left instead of the right. Therefore, new designs have a more right angle, so you can clearly see a discontinuity of a starting lane.

Personally, I've had no problems driving on these roundabouts, and all of them seem to work very smoothly. Trust me, they look more confusing when you view them from up above than when you're actually drive on one. It's just like those Spaghetti-interchanges, which are harder to comprehend their design than actually using them.

Best,
Maarten
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FrankU

Hey Maarten,

Don't get angry! You did a fantastic job on this roundabout (and on the streetstuff on the previous pages by the way).
On the other hand I can understand the crityicizm, because the thing looks confusing and I must admit that I find them indeed confusing in real life. I drive them regularly, but often enough I fear that I am doing something wrong. Somehow they are intended so that more drivers can use them at the same time, but I fear often enought that I overlook someone and then we all end up in a crash. But let's face it: that is not the issue here. As long as someone makes the pathing for this SC4 roundabout we will have the experience of cars disappearing just in time so that they won't crash.

A big  &apls

Frank


dragonshardz

Quote from: Tarkus on April 01, 2013, 09:23:07 PM
That's actually part of the design.  It's a Dutch Turbo Roundabout.



-Alex

Even so, comparing the RL version to the ingame one makes it clear - to me, at least - that those transitions to where it is 2 lanes are abominably sharp for a turbo roundabout, which I assume is to be used at a relatively high speed.

MandelSoft

On the contrary, the are intended to be used at speeds of about 40 km/h
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kbieniu7

Wow, great work Maarten. I also wish it wasn't just a joke  :)
In my opinion such roundabouts are very good solution. For me it's easier to drive on such one than on the traditional ones, where many drivers use outer lane ever (in order to turn right, left, or to go straight on), while inner one stays empty. On turbine roundabout you are able to choose the correct lane before entering the intersection (instead of changing it later).

Additionally the more "complicated" and "unusual" road is, the safer it is, because drivers slow down and pay bigger attention.
Moreover roundabouts are great, because they physically force to drive with lower speed.

Thanks for showing it  :thumbsup:
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Flatron

That's great, finally a roundabout that interferes between a two- and a four-lane road  &apls  Imho, the sharp edge is OK, because it forces you to realize that you have to yield and that your lane does not simply continue...

io_bg

I think there's been a slight misunderstanding. I meant that the inner curve where the new lane starts is a bit sharp (and Patrick probably meant the same as well) as encircled here:



It just could be smoothed (is this the correct form of the verb? ;D) a tad.
It's great either way though and I look forward to seing more roundabouts from you guys :thumbsup:
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metarvo

As neat as they look, there are precious few roundabouts in my area.  It's been noted that some of the drivers here don't know what Yield signs mean, and therefore they would be hopeless in roundabouts.
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dragonshardz

Quote from: io_bg on April 02, 2013, 04:38:32 AM
I think there's been a slight misunderstanding. I meant that the inner curve where the new lane starts is a bit sharp (and Patrick probably meant the same as well) as encircled here:



It just could be smoothed (is this the correct form of the verb? ;D) a tad.
It's great either way though and I look forward to seing more roundabouts from you guys :thumbsup:

This. Those curbs are awfully sharp even for a corner being taken at 25mph (~40kmh) and could really do with some smoothing out.

Flatron

Well, nothing hinders drivers from driving in a more fluent curve. But look at this image from the Netherlands:

Source: Google Earth, Street View.

MandelSoft

#1297
@io_bg: No, this is not a misunderstanding. I've stated the reason for this already in my elaborate post above:

Quote from: MandelSoft on April 02, 2013, 01:20:08 AM
- The first designs had more gradual lane entrances, like the one Tarkus showed. The problem of those was that some people driving on the roundabout thought their  lane continued on the left instead of the right. Therefore, new designs have a more right angle, so you can clearly see a discontinuity of a starting lane.
I've done a bit of research and came across this dutch publication of ir. L.G.H. Fortuijn about the whole development process of the turbo roundabout. This image explains the possible confusion:

Fig.3.5-7 Aknowledged misunderstanding when entering the roundabout on the right lane.
"The driver at this location expects the other driver on the roundabout to follow the inner lane (a wrong assumption).
"

With a right angle, chances for this type of confusion are way less. Compare these two images from the same publication as above:


Some professional examples showing the right angles:








And Flatron, that's a very good example of a newer design ;)

For those who are curious, here are all locations of currently realized turbo roundabouts: http://www.dirkdebaan.nl/locaties.html

Best,
Maarten
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dragonshardz

Perhaps the problem isn't so much the hard angle in the curb than it is the hard angle in the weathering line?

gn_leugim

just for curiosity, have you made the same* for roads or plan to do so? :p

*the whirly curves with intersections