SC4 Devotion Forum Archives

Alright, I am about to write the RULs for the TLA-5 (Turning Lane Avenues - 5 Lanes).  I have hit a problem in which I am not sure what I should do.  I have talked to others in the past because I knew this problem existed with some of the older NAM Plugins, but nothing has been done because if something is changed to one part, everyone will have to re-draw portions of their Transit Systems due to the fixes and changes.

I have decided under the advise of some very good credible members in the community to take this to a public poll to get feedback on this issue.  Here is the issue:

The RTL (Road Turning Lane) Plugin for NAM is very, very inefficient and by in large very difficult to follow when writing code for other additions to the NAM like TLA-5 or any other texture variation that deals with the Road Network.  By inefficient I mean there are alot of duplicate textures, RULs that are useless because they are overriden by other RULs and due to the fact there are so many duplicate textures there are many RULs that if the duplicate textures werent there could be done with one set of RULs instead of 4 sets.

What do I want to do?
I want to rebuild the RTL Plugin and build it into the TLA-3 and TLA-5 Project.  This means bringing the RTL textures and re-structuring the IIDs to fit within the TLA Projects, it means erasing the 25+ duplicate textures (this doesnt include the wealth and zoom variations).  It also means re-writing the RULs to be more efficient.

What will this do for you?
This will not change a thing visually.  You will probably not even notice a difference due to less memory being used by the extra textures and RULs.  But it will force you when you first install the new Plugin to re-draw all your Road/Road Intersection.  You would only need to click once on the intersection and it would be fixed forever, but it may take some CJers a while to go through their regions and update the intersections.

What will this do for current transit modders and future transit modders?
This will make it easier for the transit modders of today and future to make work arounds for the RTL Plugin.  There will be less RULs to scan, less textures to scan, less RULs to override, etc.  It will save time in the long run because it will be much more organized and properly commented to explain what is happening.

Here is a list of the duplicate textures:
(There are about 55 or so original RTL textures and about 27 of them are duplicates... you do the math)

0x5f005700 - MAXIS Road T-Intersection
0x5f015400 - MAXIS Road T-Intersection
0x5f015600 - Same as texture 0x5f015100
0x5f015700 - Same as texture 0x5f015200
0x5f01bb00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01bc00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01da00 - MAXIS Road Straight
0x5f01db00 - MAXIS Road Straight
0x5f01dc00 - MAXIS Road Straight
0x5f01df00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00 (rotated 180 degrees)
0x5f01ea00 - Same as texture 0x5f01be00
0x5f01eb00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01ec00 - Same as texture 0x5f01bd00
0x5f01fa00 - Same as texture 0x5f01be00
0x5f01fb00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01fc00 - Same as texture 0x5f01bd00
0x5f01fd00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ed00
0x5f01fe00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ee00
0x5f01ff00 - Same as texture 0x5f01b800
0x5f020100 - Same as texture 0x5f01ef00
0x5f020700 - MAXIS 4way Road Texture
0x5f022000 - Same as texture 0x5f020000
0x5f022100 - Same as texture 0x5f01ef00
0x5f022200 - Same as texture 0x5f020200
0x5f022300 - MAXIS Road Straight

Now, as far as I can tell all of these have been referenced to some extent in the RULs... Some, get overriden by other overrides and there are about 3x the RULs required as there are variations for all of these textures.
___________________________________

So, I leave this question to you:
Should I?

1.  Fix the issues and release an updated RTL Plugin.  Remember this means you will have to click on every Road/Road intersection when you install the updated plugin.

2.  Ignore the issue and delay the release of TLA-5 and TLA-3 even longer.

3.  You dont care because you dont use the RTL Plugin with the NAM.

As I've stated elsewhere I, personally, don't mind a revision and update of the RTL plugin. I don't think that we should even be given a choice between efficiency and having it 'easy'.

If you're not happy with a revision and an update you can always keep the old file, no?

I am, however, concerned about the TLA-5 and TLA-3. Will it then become standard with the installation of the RTL and TLA (currently with the NAM), or will it be optional apart from the RTL and current TLA?

For whatever my vote is worth since I'm not the one doing the work... I vote for clean, efficient code.   

Echoing the poster above, are you still planning to implement TLA3/5 as a new draggable network type based on roads, then?  Just trying to plan ahead here.

I would say go for it Mr. J!  :thumbsup:

OK well... I am going to leave this poll open for a couple of days.  I would hope to have some sort of difinative answer by Fridayish so I can maybe start on this on the weekend.

PLEASE to those who are voting your opinion is very valid and wanted!


EDIT:
TLA-5 and TLA-3 will be Draggable Texture Variations.  TLA-5 is designed to work just like RHW-4 with side by side overrides to start it.  TLA-3 is designed to work like SAM as a Starter Piece then drag.  These will be separated off like RHW, SAM, etc.

RTL if I re-write it, I can look for new ways to making it optional.  Say, dragging back to back Street to Road connections before a T or 4 Way intersection will overwrite the Intersection with a RTL for only that side.  It would be a bit more complicated to drag these intersections in this form but they would be optional in some respect if I did it like this.

Quote from: jplumbley on October 09, 2007, 03:54:34 PM
1.  Fix the issues and release an updated RTL Plugin.  Remember this means you will have to click on every Road/Road intersection when you install the updated plugin.

If you can make the game run a tad faster by doing this, I'm all for it. ;) :thumbsup:

Well, the RTLs should be optional. But that'd cause issues, wouldn't it?

Jp as far as im concerned here if this will make the game play move faster by getting rid of the duplicate files then by all means do it... So what i would have to make a few alterations in my cities so what but if its for the better of the game and the ease of work on you im all for it plain and simple - pat

When I designed the NAM installer, I made the road turning lane plugin optional on purpose - despite knowing that quite a lot of people use it. I always thought that it might have a (too) large impact on the in-game roads and that it also might slow down older systems, esp. if you have a grid city with lots of road intersections. Personally, I don't use it, so I'd say as well that you should optimize it, despite of the disadvantages. I can already hear the whining once it's released, because nobody read the readme file, but this cannot be avoided, as usual. ;)

I must say I'm strongly in favor of Option 1 that JP proposed here.  The RTL plugin is over two years old now (the dates on the RUL are from July 2005), and a lot has changed about transit modding in the time since, namely the prevalence of override-based network extensions (ONEs) like the RHW, SAM, and TLAs. 

I personally have some experience trying to work around the RTL plugin when making intersections with the TLAs, and the structure of the RTL modification made this an extremely daunting task. 

I have also already started a modification which will allow both RTL and non-RTL intersections to be created in a city, which hides the RTL by using a Road-to-Street transition one tile before the intersection.  The Transit Query shows the point of this transition as a Road, so the transit speed/capacity and general functionality is not negatively affected.  And it doesn't rely on the existing RTL coding.  The only thing it really needs are some T21s and it will be more or less ready. ;)

-Alex (Tarkus)

I also vote for Option 1.  It would be best to fix the issues now.

I also agree with Andreas.  I'm sure there will be complaints, but there always are when the NAM is updated.  I'm sure they will quiet down when they see all the cool new things you folks have been working on.   :thumbsup:

go ahead  :)  i know you will do this great  ;D good luck
(ive voted for the first option)

Of course I agree, you guys know what your doing, (at least I think so), so I will read the readme and we will be happy


Joe

i voted for option 1. since i'm not who's doing the job of rewriting, i feel loke my vote should be considered 1/4 or less.. but anyway, thats my opinion about your question. i think the work on "click the intersection" will be worth enough..

I'd say thus far you've managed to secure a resounding AYE! :P

Talk about a landslide.  Poll is 31 to 1 saying re-write the RTL at the moment.

I think the voice has spoken, but I will still wait until Friday.  Due to the landslide it has made me think of ways I can maybe expand this Plugin and make the parts optional.  Alex will be happy with the implementation, but I will keep them a secret for a little longer, I have a few things I have to do to make it work first and when I do I will show you.  ;)

Jp make that 32 to 1 lol.... cant wait to see further progress here....

are you going to fill out the set while your doing it to allow for ave/road crosses??? if you did it would be perfect

Quote from: star.torturer on October 10, 2007, 12:21:08 PM
are you going to fill out the set while your doing it to allow for ave/road crosses??? if you did it would be perfect

Ummm...  :D

I will be making it so that you choose where the Turning Lanes will be put.  Will that include AVE/Road Intersections?  I said I will keep my secret a little longer for Alex to read my ideas and then we will put our theories to work and come back to show you.

Nice, cant wait, thanks for the quick reply tho. mmmmm choice, is a wonderful thing may make me play again (im waiting for some of the stuff for the NAM)

Right now it's looking like a Zimbabwean election poll... You secured 97% of the vote! :P  :D

slightly smaller population than Zimbabwe  :P :P

...but the result is indeed an overwhelming Yay for the Ruler of Zimbabwe Jason! :thumbsup:

perhaps we may need a recount? darn those loose chads  :D

I feel really bad for voting for option one, since I cannot help with the coding!

But if you think you can do it, I'd say do it.  It's great for us and better for your portfolio.

-Crissa

Anything to clean up the code makes things better for everybody.

Quote from: M4346 on October 10, 2007, 12:33:58 PM
Right now it's looking like a Zimbabwean election poll... You secured 97% of the vote! :P  :D

Quote from: Filasimo on October 10, 2007, 02:20:50 PM
perhaps we may need a recount? darn those loose chads  :D

hmmmm yea i agree Ryan after -M- posted about 97% of the votes and now its down to 94.9%....
Yea i say a recount of chads are in order lol

Quote from: jplumbley on October 09, 2007, 03:54:34 PM

(snip)

So, I leave this question to you:
Should I?

1.  Fix the issues and release an updated RTL Plugin.  Remember this means you will have to click on every Road/Road intersection when you install the updated plugin.

2.  Ignore the issue and delay the release of TLA-5 and TLA-3 even longer.

3.  You dont care because you dont use the RTL Plugin with the NAM.

Just do it. We all know what you're really doing is stalling for time.  :P

(Just kidding!  :D)

In all seriousness though, do do it. (I voted if you question my sincerity in that matter).

Stalling for time... hehe.  Its obviously always an issue, but its not like there is an immanent release that is going to be pushed back because i dont have this done.  To be honest, the next release of NAM will likely include a BETA of quite a few things being worked on.

We all know that there has been public discussion on a couple of things, TLA-5 and TLA-3, RHW v14 (including MIS), SAM BETA v2 (including Dirt Road Variations and Roundabouts).  A new improved RTL Plugin?  ArkenbergeJoe's El-HRail models....  Not to mention Tropod is around, I wonder what he will come up with next.

Exciting times... when the next NAM gets pulled together for a release, but obviously since this has just started it means there is alot of work to do before a release, Im not trying to get hopes up.

To clarify, when there is going to be a new release, it won't be a "the new NAM" in the traditional sense (no big 20MB file), but a bunch of new NAM components.  You won't have to uninstall your NAM again for the new stuff this way.

Of course, if it doesn't have a release date, which is the case for all NAM stuff, nothing's getting pushed back.   ;)  We like to surprise people. ;)  If anything, rewriting the RTL code will actually speed things along on the TLAs and whatnot because the current structure of that Plugin is making some of what we're trying to do next to impossible.

-Alex (Tarkus)

Haha. I would like to make mention of the fact that my tongue was firmly planted in cheek when I posted that (if it wasn't made abundantly obvious). :P

It is kinda frustrating being on the other side, though. Having said that, do take your time, because it sucks to have do things twice because you botched it the first time.  :D

"Ready when it's ready", as frustrating as it can be sometimes, is definitely, IMHO, best practice.

At least you didn't overwrite your Windows partition like I did the other day (oooops!  :D). It was probably time for a cleanout anyhow. Kinda telling though that the only thing I really miss from the old partition is my SC4 regions.

Well, heres something I didnt see, what will happen to the existing intersections? Will they just lose there turning lanes, or will the entire intersection be gone?

I assume the turning lane textures will "disappear", that means that you have to redraw the intersections (or better, just click on the center with the road tool once). Depending on the number of intersections, this might be a bit work (esp. in dense downtown areas), but the game won't stop functioning or something like this.

Quote from: Andreas on October 16, 2007, 11:41:49 AM
I assume the turning lane textures will "disappear", that means that you have to redraw the intersections (or better, just click on the center with the road tool once).

That is how I understood it too, from JPlumbley's explanations. :)

Quote from: Kitsune on October 16, 2007, 11:32:12 AM
Well, heres something I didnt see, what will happen to the existing intersections? Will they just lose there turning lanes, or will the entire intersection be gone?

By re-writing and re-indexing these intersections.  They will ALL disappear and need to be re-drawn.  The thing I am going to implement is allowing you to choose where they appear.  I am trying to work on the RULs to allow you to have as many Turn Lanes as you want at an intersection.  For example you can have one left turn lane coming from the South but you dont want one coming from the North.  The issue I am running into at the moment is "over RULing" it, the approach I have initially taken needs to be done backwards and I have to re-think the logic a little to re-work the code.  I havent had much time to do this since my first initial test, which worked 95% but was not worth releasing.  When I made the fix for a error I was getting it would give me a red drag when trying to draw the intersection...  A good sign of a loop in the RULs, but its the only way I could think of making it work and I couldnt find a loop.

Anyways, I should have some RULing time this weekend coming to entertain some new ideas I have had, and I would infact like to explore another way of implementing it, in which I would require new learning.

This will totally void my intersection textures, won't it?
:angrymore:

Ah, that'd be awesome if you could choose which parts of the intersection you want turning lanes on, since not every 4-way intersection has turning lanes on all 4 sides.

great! but one question, how are we going to be able to select the number of turning lanes??? :P

ssc4k

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Quotegreat! but one question, how are we going to be able to se lect the number of turning lanes???

Still this will be awesome (Definatly No more TEd lots on the STEX;))
You certainly one heck of a modder. :thumbsup:

Well, currently you can change if there's a turning lane by re-drawing the length of the intersection or type of roadway... You get none with a tight intersection, a short one if there's a long one, etc.

I assume it'll work like Sam, where we'll be able to choose types of roads/avenues from a seed?

-Crissa

Quote from: DFire870 on October 16, 2007, 12:28:02 PM
Ah, that'd be awesome if you could choose which parts of the intersection you want turning lanes on, since not every 4-way intersection has turning lanes on all 4 sides.

Heh, the work around I use for this is just a one tile piece of the ANT network, works everytime, and I never get any development issues....

The implementation is not 100% decided yet as my initial idea didnt totally work, as I said earlier.  Here is a picture:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg80.imageshack.us%2Fimg80%2F9900%2Frtltest1zs0.jpg&hash=4cfb3a485eb254a2ad5106c6f48769d5ea98ec8b)

well JP i'm all for it. good RULing, man.

Quote from: jplumbley on October 16, 2007, 07:27:21 PM
The implementation is not 100% decided yet as my initial idea didnt totally work, as I said earlier.  Here is a picture:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg80.imageshack.us%2Fimg80%2F9900%2Frtltest1zs0.jpg&hash=4cfb3a485eb254a2ad5106c6f48769d5ea98ec8b)

Yeah, you've got a drunk road marker there...  :P

Shouldn't it be possible to make the RUL override behave in a certain way, ensuring 100% success (or close to)? Say, the texture automatically rotates itself when the control piece (the intersection piece) is drawn... Call the intersection piece A, the first piece B and the last piece C. Maybe it could be written in such a way that if A is there, B should be the next piece drawn, then C, but C cannot appear next to A, meaning it must be next to B.

It probably requires a bit of experimentation with this sort of thing.

Are the texture IDs on the new RTL going to be the same as the currently available one?  I really loathe the default textrures, and I don't want my white stripes to go away, although I do prefer the double yellow line down the middle.

@nerdly_dood  The texture IIDs have changed due to the fact that there are now about 1/3 of the original textures.  Any mods that change the base texture will have to be updated in accordance with the new RTL Mod.  The biggest reason for this change in IIDs is so that it was easier to write the code and so that there would be no issues with writing the TLA Projects.

@ShadowAssassin  Yes, I would have thought so too.  My fixes have actually ended up "breaking" the intersection.  What this means is I have overriden the Intersection too many times.  I have made it possible to have 3 optional Left Turn Lanes, but it breaks when I try for the 4th.

To those wondering how this will be implemented.  At the moment I am trying to get it so that it automatically overrides when there are Back to Back "Street to Road" connections.  I cannot post a picture of how to draw it at the time being but I will eventually when I have this working 100%.

You know I hate to say what jplumbley has in common here to someone else we know, but even though azn's done the shunned te lots, it just I noticed in his te lots, he managed to get 3 left turn lanes correctly drawn before his alternative 4 way intersection lots. Maybe, visually, the only alternative is a seperate puzzle piece, not the intersection, but a stand alone left turn lane piece before, because there is a possibility it can't be done. 

um jdub: these arent puzzle pieces........if you have read carefully Jplumbey is working on a way to implement these turning lanes when you make road intersections which is the appropriate way to code it and not find shortcuts...

J-dub... My work has nothing to do with TE Lots, they are RUL Overrides, the proper way to do this.  I do not use TE Lots and Puzzle Pieces should not be required for this intersection, I just used a method that didnt work, I just have to re-think and re-write a piece or two.

I can re-write it to work backwards with drawable intersections, but it will require a bit more work.  Tropod has already given me an idea of how to fix the work I have already written but I havent had time between other things I have been working on in the past week and a half.

In the past 3 weeks I have written the code and made some of the textures for SAM Roundabouts.  Experimented with SAM Diagonals, found that the code will be possible, but it will require alot of textures (wont be ready until SAM BETA v3).  Wrote the code for SAM/OWR intersections, the textures are on my to do list.  I also have some code to write for SAM/Avenue intersections which I havent added yet.  I have also written the code for TLA-5 Ortho Intersections.  These RULs are possible to be recycled and used as RULs in the RHW-4 and RHW-2 networks very easily, just need the textures which are about 2/3 done by Rickmastfan.  I have been helping with the re-calculation of the Pathfinding Engine with mott.  And I have been helping Warrior with a Boston Big Dig experiment that looks to be able to change the way we use BBD lots and make them ALOT more useful.  Its been a very busy 3 weeks for me and I think I am allowed to slack in this department for the time being, just give me time and I will get it working, hopefully before the next release of NAM/SAM/RHW which will all be simultaneous.

I Know those are not puzzle pieces, but would left turn lane puzzle pieces be such a problem? Of course it would be a real mistake to call your re-coding te lots! Its just I couldn't figure out how azns lot overrode the system and had 3 turn lanes appear in front of his alt jcts or what not. However, would doing left turn lanes on puzzle pieces be possible? Or will raised roads eventually get the same RUL treatment as ground here? Would such a thing get considered at least for that type of road? One more thing, the 2 lane rhw,

Why would anybody want puzzle pieces if it can be made draggable? That is just silly.

I get the feeling jdub that you want to drag the "discussion" about this subject from elsewhere to this website: DON'T!

If you want puzzle pieces of TE lots, get them elsewhere. This topic is about RTL done the proper way.

Well said there SerKanner.... So Back On Topic here... Jp that is a wierd mistake i say about the turning lane lol

well, hardly can wait for this to finish JP ;) and i saw a bunch of great news on your posts, which will keep me drooling ;) keep it up man, i aprreciate what you are doing here!

QuoteWhy would anybody want puzzle pieces if it can be made draggable? That is just silly.

Well, we do kind of need them to make draggable networks. But in this case, it won't even be necessary, since we're just fooling the game into doing something when confronted with a particular situation.

Quote from: Shadow Assassin on October 20, 2007, 06:51:36 AM
Well, we do kind of need them to make draggable networks. But in this case, it won't even be necessary, since we're just fooling the game into doing something when confronted with a particular situation.

Of course I meant puzzle pieces as independent network piece instead of draggable networks with the puzzle piece being part of a draggable network. But you knew that of course  :P

Serkanner, No, all I'm saying is raised roads could also stand for some left turn lanes, I mean don't you think that would be good if you use those to make overpass ramps, and have the extra lanes for up there? If this does lead to a different project, then my appologizes for parking my car in the wrong spot, get it? As for the RTL, is it also possible that a mod could be made for Roads, like Sam, that could do this with RTL, but SLR too, and give us options, like to not have turning lanes as well, maybe even road ATL could be included? Just a thought, but I don't know, maybe if those 2 projects of SLR, and RTL could get merged to something similar via just 1 network tile, it  might be easier.

QuoteAs for the RTL, is it also possible that a mod could be made for Roads, like Sam, that could do this with RTL, but SLR too, and give us options, like to not have turning lanes as well, maybe even road ATL could be included? Just a thought, but I don't know, maybe if those 2 projects of SLR, and RTL could get merged to something similar via just 1 network tile, it  might be easier.

We're a step ahead of you, j-dub. ;)

Thank you for answering the question Shadow Assassin.

I'm just wondering... how are you going to implement the UI of this.. IE how are us as users going to implement RTL's in the future??? I ask this because I thought it may be possible for you to create a mini roundabout system that takes up 1 tile???

Thankyou for your time

Joe

I have had a breakthrough today!!  &apls  &apls  &apls

I have gotten the RULs to work for the 4 way intersection.   :satisfied:  As shown in the picture there are 4 different intersections simultaneously holding different #s of Left Turn Lanes.  There is still some work left to do but the basic portion of the mod is working.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg139.imageshack.us%2Fimg139%2F196%2Frtltest3fz4.jpg&hash=c4758eb59b426ffdef4c0926de4b1d30806669fe)

 &apls &apls
now you will need to teach us how to do that ::)

mauricio.

Congratulations, Jason!  This is truly awesome news!  This going to make the TLAs so much easier to code. :thumbsup:

-Alex

Thankyou for sharing that amazing piece of news.. *bows*

Excellent!  &apls &apls &apls

Now this is very cool! Let me guess: The turning lane appears depending on the way you draw the intersection, i. e. drawing it from the center tile or the outside? In any case, that's much better than anything we had before. :)

Quote from: Andreas on November 05, 2007, 07:53:21 AM
Now this is very cool! Let me guess: The turning lane appears depending on the way you draw the intersection, i. e. drawing it from the center tile or the outside? In any case, that's much better than anything we had before. :)

Not quite...  To draw it the RTL overrides a Road to Street Connection before the intersection, I will have to get an in-game picture of it later.  This is an override that will eliminate one option, but I will reinstate that option in time it only takes a few extra lines of code and 1 duplicate texture with a different IID than the MAXIS one.

This is nice indeed. I like turning lanes but sometimes they are too much of a good thing.

great job on this Jp and that is such wonderful news to know you are getting closer - pat

Quote from: jplumbley on November 05, 2007, 08:25:16 AM
Not quite...  To draw it the RTL overrides a Road to Street Connection before the intersection, I will have to get an in-game picture of it later.  This is an override that will eliminate one option, but I will reinstate that option in time it only takes a few extra lines of code and 1 duplicate texture with a different IID than the MAXIS one.

Interesting concept there Jason.  Can't wait to see the picture of how to to it. ;)

Those different types of turning lanes are awesome. Keep Up the great work &apls &apls &apls.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)

Well...  I have been playing with some textures as of late, in my absence of doing anything SC4 related...  Although, I do get the urge once in a while to do something useful.

Here are the results of what I have done so far for right turn lanes.  As you can see from the 4 attached textures I am looking at bringing these right turn lanes into the NWM and other networks.  I will be making it so that you can use these between networks for any combination of Road, Avenue, TLA-3,5,7, RHW-2,4..  This will all be included in the new Turning Lanes Plugin I am slowly but surely building.

Looks brilliant as always :thumbsup: &apls
Can't wait till release

I agree with Warrior those look Brilliant! Keep Up the Great work :thumbsup: &apls.

Your Friend
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)

 &apls &apls &apls Jp that is wonderful and remember to take your time and dont rush OK!!!

Quote from: jplumbley on November 04, 2007, 07:25:03 PM
I have had a breakthrough today!!  &apls  &apls  &apls

I have gotten the RULs to work for the 4 way intersection.   :satisfied:  As shown in the picture there are 4 different intersections simultaneously holding different #s of Left Turn Lanes.  There is still some work left to do but the basic portion of the mod is working.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg139.imageshack.us%2Fimg139%2F196%2Frtltest3fz4.jpg&hash=c4758eb59b426ffdef4c0926de4b1d30806669fe)

Now I know why I haven't heard from you regarding the SAM.  I did wonder where you were hiding.  How did I miss this thread?  ()what()

Due to this thread being open for two months, I have now changed the title to:

NEW - Turning Lanes Plugin

The poll is now closed.  Votes are more than 90% in favour of me re-writing the RTL Plugin to make it better and optional.  Poll results:

What should I do?      Please read below before voting. Re-write the RTL Plugin.  76 (90.5%)
Leave it as is.              5 (6%)
Dont care (dont use it)  3 (3.6%)

Total Voters: 84

As you can see from previous posts, I have been able to do so.  I am also expanding this to be a plugin for all Turning Lanes.  For those of you who would like to know what I am planning for this plugin... well... Here goes:

Optional Left Turn Lanes
- Avenue
- Road
- RHW-2,4

I would definately like to get these working for Diagonals, but that will take much more time and effort.  Orthogonals for RHW-2 and Road have been written, some variations need to be added.  Textures are still needed for some things.

Optional Right Turn Lanes
- Avenue
- Road
- TLA-3,5,7
- RHW-2,4

This is an addition based on the original idea and textures by Lakeyboy over at ST.  These right turn lanes will be drawn by dragging a one way road in a counterclockwise fashion at the corner of an intersection.  Much work on textures is left to be desired and it will take some time to get these done.  I am trying to reuse some of the textures to make RULing easier and keep everything simple.  We shall see how it works out.  My goal is to get these working for diagonal networks aswell, but that is a whole new challenge again.  I have posted the following right turn lane pictures before when I initially started working on them but here they are again since they are not part of this thread:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg106.imageshack.us%2Fimg106%2F7862%2Fsliplaneshc2.jpg&hash=4e604b36eca415f5405b36aac5f5f922d9bab799)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg411.imageshack.us%2Fimg411%2F8420%2Ftexturerequestsyz4.jpg&hash=858b68d83c7fab31c6b10e9fb8f46f9b3718a24b)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg481.imageshack.us%2Fimg481%2F2880%2Fpathtest1cl7.jpg&hash=87752561689a14635f5a57d6cc630a130a26910a)

Those turning lanes are a beautiful thing.  I hope you can get them working.

Robin   :thumbsup:

If you want more textures done, you know where to get me.

i'll love this turning lanes :thumbsup:

mauricio.

 :thumbsup: so that's why the SAM and RHW/MIS threads have been so empty!!

Great job!  &apls

You'll have textures coming from me as well, Jason.  Just let me know what you need, and I got your back on this.   ;D

Thats a work of beauty  :thumbsup:. Many thanks for all the effort and hard work you've put into this.
I think you've earned this :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg152.imageshack.us%2Fimg152%2F2651%2Fkaffe06ut5.gif&hash=b712f75428e987c8f6b0e93298c7ff4cbdaf43f8)

:satisfied:
TTC

Those Right Turning Lanes are a nice addition to SC4! Keep Up The Great Work &apls &apls.

Your Friend;
Mayor Of Steven's Point & Maxiston
(Proud To Be Cities Of Sim Nation!)

Merry Christmas!
Can't wait for this stand alone turning lanes to come out. :thumbsup: I finally got rid of the traffic lights on mine, and gives me more options. Thats all though. Only did it once. Stop signs may be a good idea, but I don't like the hand on the default ones, and it might be better if they said stop. However, I don't think it can because of the limited pixel range. It also seems, every intersection works like it was being controled by a signal even though its not. I noticed some cars just go straight through without stopping even though there is a stopsign at some crossings already. Pathing can always get changed, but it seems like controlling the vehicles waiting time is a different story.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthebestfilmakerever.googlepages.com%2FBearCity-Jul.29141198552707.JPG&hash=b18447366624ff56ceed18e68b695cd360abced4)  %confuso

Hi, so a similar traffic light free crossing has I at the end of September times tinkered. But the version with bending trace pleases me already better.

klick here to the thread (http://www.xforen.de/showthread.php?p=21497#post21455)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg9.myimg.de%2Flandkreuzungbd73d_thumb.jpg&hash=ae09c022d4085befef95abbc81afef5846edeff7) (http://www.myimg.de/?img=landkreuzungbd73d.jpg)

sry for my bad english.


:thumbsup: Happy New Year!

Quote from: Flo8472 on December 31, 2007, 12:55:53 AM
Hi, so a similar traffic light free crossing has I at the end of September times tinkered. But the version with bending trace pleases me already better.


sry for my bad english.


:thumbsup: Happy New Year!

Im sorry, but I have to say that this is an example of what not to do.  Transit-Enabled Lots are VERY harmful to the Transit Simulator when used as a network tile.  They confuse the Simulator and make the Sims make bad decisions when looking for a job.  Please do not show TE'd Lots used as intersections or road pieces in my threads.
___________________________________________________

Back on topic.

I have compiled a little test for a couple people to play with this morning for this project.  There is alot that still needs to be done but, with the successful tests of the new ALPHA Plugin I have created.  I feel it is already better than the original and it paves the way for more work into the TLA-3 and TLA-5 plugins.

There is no "new pictures" currently because there is nothing "new" to show, its just working properly.  Ive just added the path files, now I need to start talking textures with some of my buddies here on the team.

@jplumbley Just out of curiosity do you use the path creator for what stuff like this? If yes, is there other things you have to do for this tool to work? And as for the the te road stop alt intersection, we have been down this road before, but that concept is already in the NAM now with the new rhw 2 lane, I can intersect roads with the rhw to avoid turning lanes and stoplight in mid residential areas for busier traffic, so long it doesn't exceed past the intersection, so far no nocar zot baloney over the houses, and it seems to be normal. However was there a decision to wether or not do stopsigns with this plugin?

Quote from: j-dub on January 13, 2008, 10:04:22 AM
@jplumbley Just out of curiosity do you use the path creator for what stuff like this? If yes, is there other things you have to do for this tool to work? And as for the the te road stop alt intersection, we have been down this road before, but that concept is already in the NAM now with the new rhw 2 lane, I can intersect roads with the rhw to avoid turning lanes and stoplight in mid residential areas for busier traffic, so long it doesn't exceed past the intersection, so far no nocar zot baloney over the houses, and it seems to be normal. However was there a decision to wether or not do stopsigns with this plugin?

The goal is functionality first.... Someone else can do T21s later, and I think they would probably end up using stoplights rather than stop signs.  Once, a BETA gets released, then someone can worry about stop signs and stop lights... I really only care that it draws properly and functions properly.

As for the paths, I have taken the paths from the existing Textures from the original RTL Plugin.  So, its a copy/paste/re-ID the paths.  I understand how to write an SC4Path file, I know how to do them and I know what needs to be done, without using the Path Creator, but the limit is it really isnt good for me to write them in this fashion because I will end up making ugly paths that dont have "curves" to them.  I do not use the Path Creator, because I really havent had much need to do paths recently.  If need be I might try it one day.

The biggest problem that the original RTL Plugin served was that the new TLA-3 and TLA-5 projects will be hindered by them.  The problem would be that we would have to decifer the RTL Plugin and find out what they did writing the RULs which will take weeks just to decifer.  The reason it will be an issue is because we will have to override the intersections with the new TLA intersections, which we dont want to do.  On top of that, the original RTL Plugin was designed very inefficiently, there were many duplicate textures and RULs that were unused.  The reason for this was because they did not know how to implement everything they wanted, because it simply wasnt possible to do all they wanted and they tried different methods and left half of it in the mod.  These other methods and simply the entire plugin itself was just too hard to decifer.  Hence, a new and improved version.  This will make everything for us modders to implement other things in the future and not take anything away from the functionality of the game.

That is why it is necessary for a re-write of this plugin.

Jplumbley, I have just read parts of this thread and have to say that I have much respect for your modding. But.. I want to add some remarks. I have to confess that I did not read the whole thread, but in your first post you were talking about textures with different ID's which are basically the same.

Quote from: jplumbley on October 09, 2007, 03:54:34 PM
Here is a list of the duplicate textures:
(There are about 55 or so original RTL textures and about 27 of them are duplicates... you do the math)

0x5f005700 - MAXIS Road T-Intersection
0x5f015400 - MAXIS Road T-Intersection
0x5f015600 - Same as texture 0x5f015100
0x5f015700 - Same as texture 0x5f015200
0x5f01bb00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01bc00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01da00 - MAXIS Road Straight
0x5f01db00 - MAXIS Road Straight
0x5f01dc00 - MAXIS Road Straight
0x5f01df00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00 (rotated 180 degrees)
0x5f01ea00 - Same as texture 0x5f01be00
0x5f01eb00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01ec00 - Same as texture 0x5f01bd00
0x5f01fa00 - Same as texture 0x5f01be00
0x5f01fb00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ba00
0x5f01fc00 - Same as texture 0x5f01bd00
0x5f01fd00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ed00
0x5f01fe00 - Same as texture 0x5f01ee00
0x5f01ff00 - Same as texture 0x5f01b800
0x5f020100 - Same as texture 0x5f01ef00
0x5f020700 - MAXIS 4way Road Texture
0x5f022000 - Same as texture 0x5f020000
0x5f022100 - Same as texture 0x5f01ef00
0x5f022200 - Same as texture 0x5f020200
0x5f022300 - MAXIS Road Straight

Now, as far as I can tell all of these have been referenced to some extent in the RULs... Some, get overriden by other overrides and there are about 3x the RULs required as there are variations for all of these textures.

I'm afraid, I have to say that it is not true, actually, that these are simply duplicate textures. If you take a look at the left_hand_plugin of the NAM, you will see that most (if not all) of the mentioned textures are different and only appear to be the same for the right hand version.
For example, the textures that are the same as "MAXIS Road Straight" are necessary for T-intersections as they will be replaced with Right-Turn-Lanes in the LHD-version. And from my point of view, it makes more sense to have these "apparently" duplicate textures than e.g. writing two sets of RULs, one for RHD and one for LHD, since you would have to add a Rul-file to the LHD-plugin then.
I'm sorry I had to criticize you. &mmm Probably you're doing very a very good job and maybe you even knew this already. Or perhaps, I misunderstood something. Anyway, I don't know, it may be wise to rewrite the plugin nonetheless for compatibility with TLR probably...

Quote from: memo on January 13, 2008, 11:28:28 AM
Jplumbley, I have just read parts of this thread and have to say that I have much respect for your modding. But.. I want to add some remarks. I have to confess that I did not read the whole thread, but in your first post you were talking about textures with different ID's which are basically the same.

I'm afraid, I have to say that it is not true, actually, that these are simply duplicate textures. If you take a look at the left_hand_plugin of the NAM, you will see that most (if not all) of the mentioned textures are different and only appear to be the same for the right hand version.
For example, the textures that are the same as "MAXIS Road Straight" are necessary for T-intersections as they will be replaced with Right-Turn-Lanes in the LHD-version. And from my point of view, it makes more sense to have these "apparently" duplicate textures than e.g. writing two sets of RULs, one for RHD and one for LHD, since you would have to add a Rul-file to the LHD-plugin then.
I'm sorry I had to criticize you. &mmm Probably you're doing very a very good job and maybe you even knew this already. Or perhaps, I misunderstood something. Anyway, I don't know, it may be wise to rewrite the plugin nonetheless for compatibility with TLR probably...

Memo, if this is the case, then the textures are not proper, atleast in the RTL Plugin I have.  The textures should be mirrored, but they arent.  Here is an example from the very first one in my original post:

0x5f015100

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg146.imageshack.us%2Fimg146%2F9058%2F0x5f015100si5.jpg&hash=94bba184ae9da41d541f8cc106e0647e70252fc9)

QuoteSC4PATHS
1.1
12
10
0
-- Car_3_1
1
0
3
1
2
2.5,-8.0,0.0
3.6,8.0,0.0
-- Car_2_1
1
0
2
1
6
8.0,2.5,0.0
6.3,2.5,0.0
5.0,3.0,0.0
4.1,4.0,0.0
3.6,5.0,0.0
3.6,8.0,0.0
-- Car_1_2
1
0
1
2
8
-0.3,8.0,0.0
-0.3,5.0,0.0
0.5,2.0,0.0
1.5,0.0,0.0
2.8,-1.3,0.0
4.0,-2.1,0.0
5.0,-2.5,0.0
8.0,-2.5,0.0
-- Car_1_3
1
0
1
3
2
-3.6,8.0,0.0
-2.5,-8.0,0.0
-- Car_3_2
1
0
3
2
21
2.5,-8.0,0.0
2.5,-5.0,0.0
2.50032,-4.9459,0.0
2.50512,-4.79802,0.0
2.52017,-4.57797,0.0
2.55125,-4.30737,0.0
2.60414,-4.00783,0.0
2.68459,-3.70099,0.0
2.79839,-3.40845,0.0
2.95131,-3.15184,0.0
3.14913,-2.95276,0.0
3.38884,-2.80837,0.0
3.65701,-2.6983,0.0
3.94375,-2.61792,0.0
4.23915,-2.5626,0.0
4.53334,-2.52772,0.0
4.81641,-2.50865,0.0
5.07848,-2.50076,0.0
5.30964,-2.49942,0.0
5.5,-2.5,0.0
8.0,-2.5,0.0
-- Car_2_3
1
0
2
3
8
8.0,2.5,0.0
6.0,2.5,0.0
2.0,0.1,0.0
0.0,-1.6,0.0
-1.3,-2.8,0.0
-2.1,-4.0,0.0
-2.5,-5.0,0.0
-2.5,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_3_1
2
0
3
1
4
6.41958,-8.0,0.0
6.39142,-5.1,0.0
6.39142,5.1,0.0
6.41958,8.0,0.0
-- Sim_3_2
2
0
3
2
5
6.3947,-8.0,0.0
6.3947,-7.71721,0.0
6.4961,-7.08183,0.0
7.13255,-6.40045,0.0
8.0,-6.31721,0.0
-- Sim_2_3
2
0
2
3
3
8.0,6.4335,0.0
-6.42677,6.4335,0.0
-6.43182,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_2_1
2
0
2
1
13
8.0,6.48099,0.0
7.46369,6.48099,0.0
7.3927,6.48117,0.0
7.21807,6.49109,0.0
6.99734,6.52483,0.0
6.78805,6.59647,0.0
6.64772,6.72009,0.0
6.57287,6.87319,0.0
6.51827,7.02426,0.0
6.47888,7.17381,0.0
6.44961,7.32233,0.0
6.4254,7.47035,0.0
6.4254,8.0,0.0
-- Sim_1_3
2
0
1
3
2
-6.3425,8.0,0.0
-6.3425,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_1_2
2
0
1
2
10
-6.39708,8.0,0.0
-6.49709,-6.11075,0.0
-6.11844,-6.28348,0.0
-5.14331,-6.38967,0.0
-3.67112,-6.44042,0.0
-1.80129,-6.44681,0.0
0.366788,-6.41994,0.0
2.73369,-6.37089,0.0
5.2,-6.31075,0.0
8.0,-6.31075,0.0
-- stop_car_a_1_255
1
1
1
1
255
-3.6,7.24569,0.0
-- stop_car_b_1_255
1
1
2
1
255
-0.3,7.402,0.0
-- stop_car_a_2_255
1
1
0
2
255
7.23966,2.3,0.0
-- stop_car_a_3_255
1
1
0
3
255
2.5,-7.36517,0.0
-- stop_sim_2_3
1
2
0
2
3
6.30438,5.12246,0.0
-- stop_sim_2_0
1
2
0
2
0
5.01762,6.30293,0.0
-- stop_sim_1_2
1
2
0
1
2
-5.16991,6.34055,0.0
-- stop_sim_3_2
1
2
0
3
2
-5.03099,-6.4498,0.0
-- stop_sim_a_2_03
1
2
1
2
3
4.96841,-6.53218,0.0
-- stop_sim_3_1
1
2
0
3
1
6.33063,-5.01665,0.0

0x5f015600

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg146.imageshack.us%2Fimg146%2F1439%2F0x5f015600ij0.jpg&hash=1dff794405dab690521ef807d0b077c64e339cdf)

QuoteSC4PATHS
1.1
12
10
0
-- Car_3_1
1
0
3
1
2
2.5,-8.0,0.0
3.6,8.0,0.0
-- Car_2_1
1
0
2
1
6
8.0,2.5,0.0
6.3,2.5,0.0
5.0,3.0,0.0
4.1,4.0,0.0
3.6,5.0,0.0
3.6,8.0,0.0
-- Car_1_2
1
0
1
2
8
-0.3,8.0,0.0
-0.3,5.0,0.0
0.5,2.0,0.0
1.5,0.0,0.0
2.8,-1.3,0.0
4.0,-2.1,0.0
5.0,-2.5,0.0
8.0,-2.5,0.0
-- Car_1_3
1
0
1
3
2
-3.6,8.0,0.0
-2.5,-8.0,0.0
-- Car_3_2
1
0
3
2
21
2.5,-8.0,0.0
2.5,-5.0,0.0
2.50032,-4.9459,0.0
2.50512,-4.79802,0.0
2.52017,-4.57797,0.0
2.55125,-4.30737,0.0
2.60414,-4.00783,0.0
2.68459,-3.70099,0.0
2.79839,-3.40845,0.0
2.95131,-3.15184,0.0
3.14913,-2.95276,0.0
3.38884,-2.80837,0.0
3.65701,-2.6983,0.0
3.94375,-2.61792,0.0
4.23915,-2.5626,0.0
4.53334,-2.52772,0.0
4.81641,-2.50865,0.0
5.07848,-2.50076,0.0
5.30964,-2.49942,0.0
5.5,-2.5,0.0
8.0,-2.5,0.0
-- Car_2_3
1
0
2
3
8
8.0,2.5,0.0
6.0,2.5,0.0
2.0,0.1,0.0
0.0,-1.6,0.0
-1.3,-2.8,0.0
-2.1,-4.0,0.0
-2.5,-5.0,0.0
-2.5,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_3_1
2
0
3
1
4
6.41958,-8.0,0.0
6.39142,-5.1,0.0
6.39142,5.1,0.0
6.41958,8.0,0.0
-- Sim_3_2
2
0
3
2
5
6.3947,-8.0,0.0
6.3947,-7.71721,0.0
6.4961,-7.08183,0.0
7.13255,-6.40045,0.0
8.0,-6.31721,0.0
-- Sim_2_3
2
0
2
3
3
8.0,6.4335,0.0
-6.42677,6.4335,0.0
-6.43182,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_2_1
2
0
2
1
13
8.0,6.48099,0.0
7.46369,6.48099,0.0
7.3927,6.48117,0.0
7.21807,6.49109,0.0
6.99734,6.52483,0.0
6.78805,6.59647,0.0
6.64772,6.72009,0.0
6.57287,6.87319,0.0
6.51827,7.02426,0.0
6.47888,7.17381,0.0
6.44961,7.32233,0.0
6.4254,7.47035,0.0
6.4254,8.0,0.0
-- Sim_1_3
2
0
1
3
2
-6.3425,8.0,0.0
-6.3425,-8.0,0.0
-- Sim_1_2
2
0
1
2
10
-6.39708,8.0,0.0
-6.49709,-6.11075,0.0
-6.11844,-6.28348,0.0
-5.14331,-6.38967,0.0
-3.67112,-6.44042,0.0
-1.80129,-6.44681,0.0
0.366788,-6.41994,0.0
2.73369,-6.37089,0.0
5.2,-6.31075,0.0
8.0,-6.31075,0.0
-- stop_car_a_1_255
1
1
1
1
255
-3.6,7.24569,0.0
-- stop_car_b_1_255
1
1
2
1
255
-0.3,7.402,0.0
-- stop_car_a_2_255
1
1
0
2
255
7.23966,2.3,0.0
-- stop_car_a_3_255
1
1
0
3
255
2.5,-7.36517,0.0
-- stop_sim_2_3
1
2
0
2
3
6.30438,5.12246,0.0
-- stop_sim_2_0
1
2
0
2
0
5.01762,6.30293,0.0
-- stop_sim_1_2
1
2
0
1
2
-5.16991,6.34055,0.0
-- stop_sim_3_2
1
2
0
3
2
-5.03099,-6.4498,0.0
-- stop_sim_a_2_03
1
2
1
2
3
4.96841,-6.53218,0.0
-- stop_sim_3_1
1
2
0
3
1
6.33063,-5.01665,0.0

As you can see from both the SC4Path Files and the Textures they are identical.  I have not looked into where they are in the RULs, simply becaue I dont want to find them, but if they are used in differing circumstances, why?  If they are oriented the same and pathed the same, then the only difference in the RUL line would be the IID.

I undertand there may be something needed with the LHD versions.  Unfortunately, I have never worked with LHD so I dont know what to do to make it work.  But, if I have to make duplicate textures and paths that are mirrored for the LHD then, that is quite alright.  But, I will put them into a separate RTL Plugin file for LHD with the Mirrored textures because it will still work.

In either case you may need new RULs for the RTL-LHD anyways, because instead of them being left hand turns they are right hand turns.  In essence, the approach to the intersection is different meaning a new set of RULs.  This new set of RULs would be for the T-Intersections mainly because the turn lane would be moved to the oppostie side of the intersection.

For example a T-Intersection with 2 turn lanes:

|__
|

In RHD the Left Turn lane on the through road would be from the north side of the intersection.  But, in LHD the Right turn lane would be coming from the south side of the intersection.  Completely different layout, hence completely different set of RULs.  This is just my thoughts on this, and have never played with LHD, nor have I attempted to mod and LHD compatable mod, so I dont know what is required.

If I am wrong with this, please tell me because when it comes to LHD Im in the dark.

The Road-Turning-Lanes Plugin of the NAM is set up in a way, which allows RHD and LHD to work with the same RULs. This can be achieved like this:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg248.imageshack.us%2Fimg248%2F7089%2Fcapture20080113230132cq9.jpg&hash=f1eb4d4d8d7e1380d19df9223e4f7a96a678e7f6)

The textures of the outlined tiles are replaced by the textures you can see in the picture. At first, it may seem gratuitous that straight road textures from the T-Intersection are replaced by other straight road textures. But it is needed for the LHD version, as those straight textures are replaced by Right-Turning-Lanes, if the left hand plugin is installed. IMO, this method is quite clever, actually.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg248.imageshack.us%2Fimg248%2F408%2Fcapture20080113230512lh0.jpg&hash=cc9ee9503b824499bea99706031c1105e80d09d1)

---

Now I'll try to explain the situation for the "duplicate" texture that you suggested in your post already. In the first case of the picture below, one left-turning-lane is prevented by the rail intersection. However, the two straight road tiles still get the custom textures. But in the second case, they don't because there is another intersection next to the T-intersection, the street intersection.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg186.imageshack.us%2Fimg186%2F2174%2Fcapture20080113230322cz2.jpg&hash=a1dc3885347c25f3e990dd5abf9657902b1a5e1e)

Now let's investigate the same situations with the left hand plugin installed. It will look like this:

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg186.imageshack.us%2Fimg186%2F4199%2Fcapture20080113230443bi0.jpg&hash=397e5f89a8698409f79892d8d2b4354bb410aece)

It becomes clear that two different textures are needed for these two intersections in LHD. In the first case, the texture 0x5f015100 will appear, in the second one, it's texture 0x5f015600. Both texture files can be found in the plugin "NetworkAddonMod_LEFT_HAND_VERSIONS_ONLY_Required_Additional_Plugin.dat". In RHD, they are the same though.

Now some notes on LHD:
Usually, it is only needed to reverse the paths of rail-based networks, since the game flips the paths of cars automatically. Those reversed paths of rail path files need to have another IID. If you want, I'll explain the scheme which helps you to find the right ID for them.
However, in this case, the road-turning-lanes need special treatment, since it doesn't work to just reverse the paths. The turning lanes wouldn't make sense. So you need completely different textures and paths for the intersections which differ between RHD and LHD, so the LHD textures and paths will replace the RHD ones, if the correct plugin is installed.

That is much more clear now Memo, thanks.  I will need to read this again when I am more "awake", getting ready for bed and my brain is most of the way there.

Since, RHD and LHD versions cannot co-exist anyways, would it not be prudent to build into the NAM Essentials installer a RHD and LHD version of the Controller?  This way it avoids duplicate paths and textures being installed in the Turning Lanes Plugin.  I can also, write my version with mirrored textures and paths to allow for a LHD selection.  Yes, this would mean a bit more work for me, but it is easier to modify in the future and better for the end user.

In either case, I still must re-write this due to the way Alex and I are writing the Turning Lane Avenue Project.  Due to the RTL Plugin be automatic at every intersection it is more work to decifer how they did it and then write the new RULs.  And this is a good excuse to add more flexibilty to this plugin and expand it.  I think this will now become more useful for all users rather than just those who want left turn lanes at every intersection.

Well, for those of you who thought I have forgotten about this project... I havent.  Been working on it some tonight and made a couple prototype textures with my rather limited skills with photoshop.

This is a Right Turn Slip Lane from an Avenue to a Perpendicular One Way Road.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg410.imageshack.us%2Fimg410%2F4549%2Fperpowrcopyfq3.jpg&hash=9cd43d7027660a4a2907b1c62e619d37453a0dcc)

cant see the picture JP. the feared red X for me.

Quote from: Meastro444 on March 30, 2008, 04:49:13 AM
cant see the picture

neither do i &mmm

mauricio.

I saw it and it was GOOOOD

but here it is again...

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4549/perpowrcopyfq3.jpg

I think it isn't there any more

Joe

Quote from: star.torturer on March 30, 2008, 10:21:19 AM
I saw it and it was GOOOOD

but here it is again...

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4549/perpowrcopyfq3.jpg

I think it isn't there any more

Joe

It's loading here on my end.

It is fixed again, probably Server problems.

It looks sweet to me  (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Fsmileys%2Fbasic%2Fdrool.gif&hash=9b7feb3f73b4a6b0225ce9c8e3da29404b6ab562)!!!! I don't see (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Fsmileys%2Fviolent064.gif&hash=bd5ecc6ca8edec546d26c23fbde57f4333f715c5)

now i can see the pic. looks really interesting :thumbsup:

mauricio.

Although this thread was moved to the "NAM Inactive Board" I have brought it back to the "NAM Creations Board" because this project is not dead, it just got put in the background while we were in crunch time for the April NAM. I have over the past couple of days works on this much further, there are a few more things I would like to add before we create a new updated NAM Controller and release this Plugin.

First off, yesturday I was thinking about how I was going to go about creating a slip lane such as what Shadow_Assassin posted this morning in the NAM Developement Thread....  So we are a world apart yet thinking the exact same thing... Freaky huh.  Hopefully, I can coordinate with him and we can expand his textures to include more options and get them included with this new Turning Lanes Plugin.

Next, I have gotten the Road Left Turning Lanes working as optional Turn Lanes and have added some more function and flexibility with how the Turn Lane is entered.  These have turned out quite well, though when you build them too tightly together you may end up with some texture revertions here and there.  This may not be fixable, but if you click around the intersection will draw properly depending on the tile you click on.  This issue happens when there are 4 or less tile between intersections.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg217.imageshack.us%2Fimg217%2F3306%2Fleftturnlanes5ba3.jpg&hash=3baafbaf3519d223f2a13205c69d129cc4c030ab)

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg217.imageshack.us%2Fimg217%2F4819%2Fleftturnlanes3ie2.jpg&hash=0ac85765a99c2a861dde9e3513f50e8c6ce29855)

I have been also working on adding the Right Turn "Slip" Lanes as well.  These will work with TLA-5, TLA-3, Road, RHW and Avenue intersections currently.  Right now I am planning on these to only work Orthogonal in the first release, but I would like to get them to work with Ortho-Diag and Diag-Diag intersections aswell.  Of course this is where Shadow_Assassins texture would come in, because I can easily take his texture and convert it to other Ortho-Diag intersections!

Finally, I would also like to work on some functionality for turning lanes for that merge into a perpendicular OWR like the following picture.  I think this would have its use at some point.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg410.imageshack.us%2Fimg410%2F4549%2Fperpowrcopyfq3.jpg&hash=9cd43d7027660a4a2907b1c62e619d37453a0dcc)

Sweet flexible turning lanes!  &apls

I LIKE IT.  Can't wait for it to be released! &apls :thumbsup:

Not making a request here, but just think: TL's for 2-lane OWR's. What do you think?

Well, TLs for OWRs aren't really possible.  At least, they would not be easy to control, due to the way the OWR network is structured.  When one changes the direction of an OWR, the textures are still facing the same direction, so there's no way to control that through the RUL files.

Nice idea, though.

-Alex (Tarkus)

Daaang that would be sweet to see the slip lane and yes its mighty scary that 2 great minds think a like!!!

Eh, well, it was a good idea though.

Can't WAIT until the NWM is out. I'll finally be able to releive the traffic problems in downtown Jenress.

Well here is a bit more developement on this project so far.  I ran into a small conflict with the OWR Roundabouts, but its fixable with a bit more RULs or maybe basing the override on another option.  Here is a picture of what I was able to get working yesturday for the most part.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F3227%2Fleftturnlanes9vf6.jpg&hash=ec06a4aab9d8ca9e21a74f9b36732361f79e8995)

that is rather snazzy and amazing, thanks for sharing :)

Looking good! You NAM guys (and girls?) are so talented - I wish I could just whip something up like that!

Quote from: jplumbley on May 11, 2008, 11:30:22 PM
Well here is a bit more developement on this project so far.  I ran into a small conflict with the OWR Roundabouts, but its fixable with a bit more RULs or maybe basing the override on another option.  Here is a picture of what I was able to get working yesturday for the most part.

(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F3227%2Fleftturnlanes9vf6.jpg&hash=ec06a4aab9d8ca9e21a74f9b36732361f79e8995)

dude, thats something it misses in game for a long time, here were i live is rather common  to see that  :thumbsup:

Great job  :thumbsup:

Quote(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F3227%2Fleftturnlanes9vf6.jpg&hash=ec06a4aab9d8ca9e21a74f9b36732361f79e8995)

Can you make the right turn lanes for tha avenue. Here in Indy, those lanes are more common with avenues.

That's looking really good there!! Great work on it! :thumbsup:

@ DeButterfly:  I think that those will be released along with the road right-turn-lanes, but i'm not sure.

@ JPlumbey:  Those are WICKED, and they'll be even better with the arrow bug fixed!

Looks great!

Though, I'd suggest using the Street network as the override network... that way, the arrow bug doesn't appear anymore. :P Besides, people travel slower on those slip lanes...

And it shouldn't conflict with the SAM either.

I don't know if this has been answered somewhere, but how will the optional turning lanes work? Is it a matter of drawing the roads in a certain way? Or is it along the lines of a pop-up like highway ramps?

kassarc, to answer your question, it's a matter of drawing the networks a certain way.  The current override used on those pics is by drawing a 90-degree OWR bend between the two Roads to make the slip lane.

-Alex (Tarkus)

OK, I gathered it was one-ways for that, but I meant the Left-turn lanes. Does the drawing matter for those, too?

Yes, it does.  It's basically set-up such that you have:

Intersection---Road/Street Transition---Street/Road Transition---Road

That basic setup will be getting used for some other stuff as well . . . ;)

-Alex (Tarkus)

Okay, I think I see what the deal is, but would that mess up the Street/Road transitions that I use to have stop signs on the intersecting road? Or will those still be functional because it's only one transition? (If that's not clear I can post a pic to show what I mean.)

Quote from: kassarc16 on May 18, 2008, 05:59:43 PM
Okay, I think I see what the deal is, but would that mess up the Street/Road transitions that I use to have stop signs on the intersecting road? Or will those still be functional because it's only one transition? (If that's not clear I can post a pic to show what I mean.)

That particular setup would still be unaffected. 

Of course, it would be easy to produce a little mod to allow the choice of having traffic signals or stop signs on those intersections (with T21s), too. ;)

-Alex (Tarkus)

Quote from: Tarkus on May 18, 2008, 07:31:31 PM
That particular setup would still be unaffected. 

Of course, it would be easy to produce a little mod to allow the choice of having traffic signals or stop signs on those intersections (with T21s), too. ;)

-Alex (Tarkus)

Yes, but the cars will still stop and go as if there is a stoplight controlling the intersection with the stop sign props on the road intersection tiles.

-Swamper

Quote from: Swamper77 on May 18, 2008, 08:00:20 PM
Yes, but the cars will still stop and go as if there is a stoplight controlling the intersection with the stop sign props on the road intersection tiles.

Quite true.  It'd end up being cosmetic only.

Edit:  Of course, there is also the option of taking the setup kassarc was using and making an override to disguise it.

-Alex (Tarkus)

Quote from: Tarkus on May 18, 2008, 08:15:59 PMQuite true.  It'd end up being cosmetic only.

Yeah, but the SAM is cosmetic only too, isnt' it? ;D
I can't tell you how many mods I use that are only cosmetic, and I wouldn't delete them even to get that little shredded thing of mine they call a 'reputation' back... I have 4 overlapping transit texture mods that load in just the right order to make the roads and streets and such look just how I want them, and then I have a bunch of BATs that don't do much... I could go on for hours.

Quote from: Tarkus on May 18, 2008, 08:15:59 PMOf course, there is also the option of taking the setup kassarc was using and making an override to disguise it.

I think you're on to something there. ;)

Thanks for answering my questions.

no more news here? =1

Quote from: gn_leugim on June 06, 2008, 02:55:20 AM
no more news here? =1

Ive been slammed by RLS...  Im able to check-in from time to time, but I definately do not have time to update or do modding at the current time.  I feel bad...

As you should...  ???

Take you time mate.  Life is important.  :thumbsup:

your right.. i fell the same.. i've entered exam time.. all my time now is for studing  :'( :angrymore:

Jp take your time and RL is so much more important then SC4 welll really not but yea I guess it could be lol.... Take it easy in any case!!!!

pat