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Lot Editor problem

Started by eugenelavery, August 26, 2013, 08:04:53 PM

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eugenelavery

Ok, so I have another issue which is related to the original one in this thread. Now that I can offset props, is it possible to have duplicate versions of a prop offset in different ways. I thought I could create duplicate props in PIMx but then the model tweaker did not recognise them, and I found them to be offset by the same margins as their originals that they were duplicated from.

Is there a way to work around this limitation, as some of these CAL boats I want to rotate and offset, while others I just want offset.

FrankU

Hi,
If I understand correctly you several made props from the same model?

Explanation: with model tweaker you edit the model itself. The prop is just a reference to the model. So if you make several props that all use the same model the looks will be the same.
Now if you want to move the boat from the center of the prop rectangle that you see in LE or SC4-Pim you can either change the model with Tweaker or you can change the RKT4 property of the prop. In the latter case every prop can have a different offset. The disadvantage is that the shadow of the model does not move with the model.... Sooo stupid! So the shadow stays where the model should be when the prop offset is zero... So this is only useful for props whose shadows are turned off (yes, that is possible: set "is ground model" to false).

Does this help you in any way?

eugenelavery

This does help explain what is happening. So I can't even duplicate the dat file and rename it to get an extra set of models that I can offset differently from the original set?

FrankU

Hi eugenelavery,

Yes, you can duplicate the model you want to edit. Then you edit the duplicate and keep the original. You can make as many copies as you like.
I had the same question some time ago, and you can read the answers here:

1. How to clone a model and use it in Model Tweaker. Read that here.

2. Some info on using RKT4 and offset the props. That you can read here.

If you have further questions just ask!

Frank

eugenelavery

Quote from: FrankU on March 02, 2014, 11:07:19 AM
Hi eugenelavery,

Yes, you can duplicate the model you want to edit. Then you edit the duplicate and keep the original. You can make as many copies as you like.
I had the same question some time ago, and you can read the answers here:

1. How to clone a model and use it in Model Tweaker. Read that here.

2. Some info on using RKT4 and offset the props. That you can read here.

If you have further questions just ask!

Frank


Thanks for this! Do you use ilives reader for copying the exemplars into a new DAT file?

FrankU

Yes, I have Reader version 0.9.3.

I can make several clones at the same time and automatically give them new IID's. Very practical.

eugenelavery

Quote from: FrankU on March 02, 2014, 12:33:14 PM
Yes, I have Reader version 0.9.3.

I can make several clones at the same time and automatically give them new IID's. Very practical.

I will see if I can figure this out. Seems like a very useful skill if I can get it.

eugenelavery

I think I need a step-by-step tutorial or something. I am not able to figure this out.

FrankU

I could help you, but my time is limited. If you have a bit of patience I can make a tutorial.

eugenelavery

Quote from: FrankU on March 03, 2014, 01:42:17 AM
I could help you, but my time is limited. If you have a bit of patience I can make a tutorial.

That would be great. All I am wanting to do is to make 3 or 4 sets of the CAL Small Boats pack so that I can offset them all differently.

FrankU

OK, eugene,  a short one. Maybe it's enough for you.

1. Open Ilives Reader.
2. Open the file that contains the models you want to edit. Probabaly this is a prop pack.
3. In this file you will see all different kinds of entries: Ltext, FSH, S3D, XML etc..
4. For each model that is in your prop pack, you usually find a prop exemplar. Find the exemplar that you want to change. The name is important and also its IID.
5. There is a group of twenty S3D entries that belong to your prop. The TID and the GID are identical. The IID's of these S3D entries are all different.
Usually the prop has an IID like 0x00030000. The S3D files are then named 0x00030000, 0x00030010, 20, 30 and 0x00030100, 110, 120, 130. Etc
6. Select all 20 S3D entries. Right click and select "Copy file(s)" from the menu, or simply use "Ctrl C".
7. Now open a new blank file in Reader. And paste the 20 entries into this file.
8. Right click, Reindex, Rebuild directory file, Save with an appropriate name. I suppose you know these actions.
9. Now the cloning. Select all 20 entries in the new made file. Right click with your mouse and select "Clone"
10. Now a menu appears. You can give in the number of copies and an increment in T, G or I for each copy. I decided to use the fifth digit of the IID for my clones. As far as I know that works. You can do it too. So do it. One disadvantage: you can have no more than 15 clones. Usually that will be enough though...
11. Reader makes a lot of new S3D entries in the file you are working in. Reindex, Rebuid directory file, Save.
12. Now delete the 20 S3D entries that you put into the new file in the first place. Remember: these 20 entries are identical to the ones in the original file and you do now want to conflict with these! Again: reindex, rebuild, save.
13. Your set of new S3D files is ready. These are sort of copies of the original model. You can edit them with Model Tweaker. Of course you have to make new props with these models. You can do that in SC4-Pim. I suppose you know how to do that.
14. Because a set of S3D files is not enough to have the model visible in your game this is not a violation of copyrights. The original prop pack with all the FSH files is still needed. So you can distribute the set you just made.

I hope you understand without the fancy images that usually go with tutorials.... But I guess you are quite experienced with lotting and Reader.

Success!

eugenelavery

Thanks, I will give this a go.

Two questions, is there a way to select all 20 S3D entries in one go, as opposed to individually?

Also, since I am trying to replicate a dat with multiple props, should I do this process separately for each prop or can I just lump them all in in one go?

FrankU

You can select al 20 entries in one go, just like you can do in Windows all the time by using ctrl and shift keys etc.
And you can put all props into one file or make separate files for each. Do whatever suits you best. The game does not care. I myself would put all edited stuff into one file and call it something like "eugenelavery marina props".

Let's see what you are coming up with.

In fact I was going to do almost the same for other props, because I am desperately trying to make an improved and altered Marina Reward.

eugenelavery

Ok, so I tried it and all I got when I loaded the new DAT into PIM was a series of coloured shapes.

FrankU

You mean red boxes? Only in the preview,or also on the lot when you place them?
Did you put the original prop pack into the plugins?

eugenelavery

Quote from: FrankU on March 03, 2014, 11:18:05 AM
You mean red boxes? Only in the preview,or also on the lot when you place them?
Did you put the original prop pack into the plugins?

Yes, red boxes in the preview in PIM. I put the original prop pack back into the plugins which solved the red boxes, but then it seemed as though I had not created any duplicates, but just renamed the original props.

The step I am most uncertain of is No. 10
10. Now a menu appears. You can give in the number of copies and an increment in T, G or I for each copy. I decided to use the fifth digit of the IID for my clones. As far as I know that works. You can do it too. So do it. One disadvantage: you can have no more than 15 clones. Usually that will be enough though...

Do I check/tick all three boxes that come up? Also by fifth digit what do you mean? The numbers appear 0x000000, do you mean the fifth digit after the 'x'? If so, what do I change it to, anything?

FrankU

Hi Eugene,

In the menu you can give in the number of copies you want. That's clear I suppose.

Then you have indeed three options:
- Increment Type. Never change that!
- Increment Group
- Increment Instance. Check this one and type the following: 0x00001000.

The first copy of your S3D set of files will then be numbered: 0x00031000, 0x00031010, 0x00031020 etc...
The second set of copies will be numbered: 0x00032000, 0x00032010, 0x00032020 etc...

When I am not completely wrong the name of the "model" that you make will have identical TID and GID as the original, but the IID's will be 0x00031000 and 0x00032000.

Try again and let me know if it works.
Maybe that's better?

eugenelavery

Quote from: FrankU on March 04, 2014, 12:13:31 AM
Hi Eugene,

In the menu you can give in the number of copies you want. That's clear I suppose.

Then you have indeed three options:
- Increment Type. Never change that!
- Increment Group
- Increment Instance. Check this one and type the following: 0x00001000.

The first copy of your S3D set of files will then be numbered: 0x00031000, 0x00031010, 0x00031020 etc...
The second set of copies will be numbered: 0x00032000, 0x00032010, 0x00032020 etc...

When I am not completely wrong the name of the "model" that you make will have identical TID and GID as the original, but the IID's will be 0x00031000 and 0x00032000.

Try again and let me know if it works.
Maybe that's better?

Thanks for the help, I will let you know if it works.

Also, when I load the new dat into PIM, should I still have the original one in there also?

FrankU

The original? Well... you do not neccessarily need the original S3D entries, but you certainly need the original FSH entries. Therefore it is no violation of the copyright.
To be sure I'd say: keep the oringinal file, because nobody releases the S3D files separately from the FSH's.

eugenelavery

Ok, I think I figured everything out. Not too tricky once you know what you are doing. Just have to make sure I am rotating everything correctly in Model Tweaker now.

Thanks so much for your help!!!