So, I spent the weekend laying ballast.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F3%2F3b%2FBundesarchiv_Bild_183-N0415-331%252C_Bahnbau_der_Strecke_Schwaan-Rostock.jpg&hash=314a383ed49a8a447e1f61cd9e4d4f01378f0e4e)
Okay, not really like that. . . Think shunting engine and stuff.
Now this is an unusual job for me at best; yet, our infrastructure company has manpower problems, so they sent me. Unfortunately, I couldn't take any pictures because it required my full attention. However, it got me thinking of SC4 (as usual). That's the great thing about these jobs - you get some new ideas every day.
What I realized more than anything, was that the available track textures aren't very realistic. Despite great efforts by Dedgren, SFBT and others, the basic premise laid out by Maxis is still adhered to: ballast is grey, rails are white, and sleepers are black. None of this is really the case in reality. (At least not my reality.)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F0%2F05%2FV%25C3%25ADa_sobre_durmientes_de_madera_06.jpg%2F640px-V%25C3%25ADa_sobre_durmientes_de_madera_06.jpg&hash=a919938bd2d0ec8abb7ed1d5530ca020afc4687b)
Not even in Uruguay, apparently. . .
In my book, ballast is brown, sleepers are either made of timber (brown) or concrete (light grey), and rails are made of steel (greyish). Wooden sleepers are also very irregular in color. They also don't stick out of the ballast, they lay partly covered in it. You certainly cannot count them, even from zoom 5.
Any quick glance on Bing or Google maps will tell you the same thing. Whether it's Europe or North America, rails don't look like we see them in SC4. In fact, even from zoomed out you recognize them by their brown hues.
So, today I started fiddling with the GIMP and try if I could get something done. Here's the results of that, compared to the available textures:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FSTR_comparison_zps8161ddc5.jpg&hash=cfc150a0562e58f6e4fa359ebb7d3c87db7d7b6c)
It's quite a step away from it, but I like the direction it's in. Needs a little more shadow to give the illusion of dimension, I think. You be the judge.
Here's a quick run of memo's GIMP script:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FSTR_curve_8x8_zpsf9c70d33.png&hash=1c0ac2a7773925118ebe4117308f9ae72530d9e9)
And here's some in-game pics:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FSTR_test1_zps81acd386.jpg&hash=af3509747c8b915387aa4916dd53a7b1e32e90f4)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FSTR_test2_zps0af960b6.jpg&hash=a93554e28b26cea4741bf0bb47c3f881d45eaf27)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FSTR_test3_zps7eeffd3b.jpg&hash=2268cbeb25db9e8a660fc4fe6d537de96b054d61)
Now, I don't have a lot of experience in transit modding, so I don't even know what I'm stepping into. I'd be going through with this depending on whether there's any interest in it, and if folks would want to cooperate on this – I can't use gmax, and I guess you need that to make overpasses (and all of that is in NAM territory anyway). What with David on break and the RAM team being inactive, I don't even know who to ask and if there's any development going on at all.
Cheers
Willy
WOW!!!!
That looks super and I would switch in a second.
As far as I know there is nothing going on right now with the RAM Team nor David on this front.
Robin
I'll second Robin here--that looks phenomenal! I definitely think the browner look is a more accurate depiction of reality.
The RAM development group has been inactive since about March. Triple-Track Rail development was going at a rapid pace, but then there were some odd path/automata jumping glitches discovered with some of the Triple-Track curves and switches, and it derailed the entire project. The RAM is part of the NAM Team, so we have been handling the support side of things in the RAM group's absence.
Fortunately, we actually don't have to do much in the way of Gmax/3ds Max work on overpasses--it's largely a Reader/Model Tweaker-based operation at this point.
-Alex
That is really an awesome -and radically different--texture. I'm very curious to see what it looks like surrounded by other buildings or flora in game, as well as the DTR version. It's certainly a project I'd love to see you pursue, though I think it will take quite a bit of work.
I'll be watching very closely :thumbsup:
Finally some realistic rail textures. &apls The other ones look like fairly new ones, but most rails were built many years ago and the ballast was coloured by the rust falling off the train. NICE! :thumbsup:
Well, that's certainly some talent you're showing off there. Excellent work, Willy :thumbsup: I'd like to see more...
Quote from: Swordmaster on October 29, 2012, 06:18:01 PM
whether there's any interest in it
You bet! I'll be the first one to use it when it is out!
Really nice work with the first texture, I can definitely tell that you are on the right track! (dohoho)
Not only in Europe or North America, but also in Japan [shinkansen are a bit different "A combination of ballasted and slab track are used, with slab track exclusively employed on concrete bed sections such as viaducts and tunnels." ]
If you need someone to test out your work, Feel free to ask, I'll gladly help! ;)
Hi Willy,
The color scheme is fantastic!
What I miss in the images as I can see them here is that the tracks look a bit hazy, a bit unsharp. Maybe it's my eyes or my computer or the size of your uploads, but it might be even better if we can see some graininess. Although in reality we could never see individual ballast stones from this distance, in game you have to exaggerate certain aspects in order to achieve a good looking effect. I think a bit of graininess would make the ballast even better.
But you are certainly on a good track! &apls
Thanks for all the positive response! Very encouraging :)
Quote from: Tarkus on October 29, 2012, 06:47:10 PMFortunately, we actually don't have to do much in the way of Gmax/3ds Max work on overpasses--it's largely a Reader/Model Tweaker-based operation at this point.
Good news! I'll need to delve a little deeper into the NAM texture structure, though, see how the puzzle pieces are arranged and such.
Quote from: noahclem on October 29, 2012, 07:42:08 PMThat is really an awesome -and radically different--texture. I'm very curious to see what it looks like surrounded by other buildings or flora in game, as well as the DTR version. It's certainly a project I'd love to see you pursue, though I think it will take quite a bit of work.
You'll see how it looks among buildings. . . in PSC $%Grinno$%
Quote from: art128 on October 30, 2012, 02:33:35 AMIf you need someone to test out your work, Feel free to ask, I'll gladly help! ;)
Thanks for the offer! I'll certainly want to ship this out for people to evaluate it in-game - I need an honest opinion on it.
Quote from: FrankU on October 30, 2012, 03:36:45 AMThe color scheme is fantastic!
What I miss in the images as I can see them here is that the tracks look a bit hazy, a bit unsharp. Maybe it's my eyes or my computer or the size of your uploads, but it might be even better if we can see some graininess. Although in reality we could never see individual ballast stones from this distance, in game you have to exaggerate certain aspects in order to achieve a good looking effect. I think a bit of graininess would make the ballast even better.
I was hoping for someone to start this discussion! Good of you to notice it, since I was unsure of the sharpness I need to aim for. I wouldn't want to give it the edge the original textures have, though, because that was one of my peeves. But I understand folks like you have a lot more experience in things like this, and I certainly want to make sure I can release this for all purposes to be suitable.
Here's some tweaking I did; more shadows and some grains added:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FSTR_test4_zps88d7ee4e.jpg&hash=87baded0659d3321f2ff01b3539c3c0ad5df728a)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Fgimp_str_zpse9d53b64.jpg&hash=06185310c5d75237c48f095d81b305b423ac0361)
I could run a sharpen filter over it, or add some more pixels, but I think this is quite near to what I'm aiming for.
Cheers
Willy
You can upload a few of these pics as png if it means you get better quality, just keep them to a minimum please.
Robin
Yessss..... I..think.....this is getting better.
Not completely sure, but it looks like there is a bit more depth and contrast.
I think png's should be allowed for this kind of tricky little details.
I think - this is an excellent idea ...
But I think - this is an unreal work for one man, You need a command for it ...
Thank You, it's a real good idea ...
I definitely like the older look to those rails - very impressive start! I have no experience in textures, but you seem to have a good grasp of what to do. Perhaps a shot of the tracks at all 6 zoom levels would be nice. The closeups look great though.
Quote from: Silur on October 30, 2012, 08:01:09 AMI think - this is an excellent idea ...
But I think - this is an unreal work for one man, You need a command for it ...
Thank You, it's a real good idea ...
Not really an unreal task - getting the basic textures right is toughest. Once that's done, it'll speed up.
Some more doodling. . .
Comparing DTR with the original, several zoom levels per Simcoug's request:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FDTR_test1_z6_zps38741bda.jpg&hash=4e100c0dfd61e0638a3316230a5ad4d64b515e34)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FDTR_test1_z5_zpsaad71cd3.jpg&hash=704a2a16e7007671b411b3b22f83ffd8814e63fc)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FDTR_test1_z4_zpsda12b1ac.jpg&hash=2ff01b5c346b04b66606a31fd971b7bbf2d896e5)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FDTR_test1_z3_zps73be0cb4.jpg&hash=ca6f2423b7a5a2c9a29d58012663dc91a054610c)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FDTR_test1_z2_zps6d208bba.jpg&hash=fbde0973cb9876d22b7c6d05c4f7786603d384c1)
So, clearly, from zoom 3 and onwards, my textures become just a brown blur. The question is, of course, whether this is acceptable/desirable/unfancy/too much realism.
Next, I've discovered memo's script lightens the textures a little:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2FSTR_test5_zps02a21006.jpg&hash=60648e5fc2c52e9de5a86d223f5919cd5bdb994b)
But at least, I understand the puzzle pieces now.
Cheers
Willy
Even at zoom3 I'm still more than happy with the color.
I love it!!
Robin
Quote from: rooker1 on October 30, 2012, 10:28:32 AM
Even at zoom3 I'm still more than happy with the color.
Same here, wonderful!
Quote from: Swordmaster on October 30, 2012, 09:57:12 AM
Next, I've discovered memo's script lightens the textures a little:
Actually, the game itself handles shading differently on puzzle pieces and model-based items, versus draggable/fully texture-based items. Technically, the draggable/texture-based items get darkened a bit by the game engine, while the puzzle piece versions are represented exactly as they were. Most transit texturers compensate for this by darkening the puzzle piece version. There's a lot of debate as to the correct settings, and it depends on the program you're using. I've typically done a -15 brightness adjustment. I know jondor's recently found a method using alpha correction that works especially well.
-Alex
It looks a little bit like old wild-west-tracks...I would change it, so that the basalt has the same texture under the tracks like next to them...
but great work...
I find that great!
@MrY: It's ballast(Schotter) and not basalt(a dark sort of rock that is seldomly used as ballast) Most of the tracks in my area have that rusty colour. ICE-tracks on the other hand seem to be very clean, but that's because they are new and/or made of concrete.
This is very interesting indeed. It really made me think a bit more about railways in SC4 and in RL. Most of them here look just like your textures. The rest which are newly(-ish) reconstructed though have grey-ish ballast, dark brown (rusty) rails and concrete sleepers. Maybe that's what Maxis were aiming at ;D
Quote from: rooker1 on October 30, 2012, 10:28:32 AMEven at zoom3 I'm still more than happy with the color.
I love it!!
Thanks, Robin. It's better than the original, but not good enough for me, actually. Too brown, too much.
Quote from: Tarkus on October 30, 2012, 10:59:57 AM
Actually, the game itself handles shading differently on puzzle pieces and model-based items, versus draggable/fully texture-based items. Technically, the draggable/texture-based items get darkened a bit by the game engine, while the puzzle piece versions are represented exactly as they were. Most transit texturers compensate for this by darkening the puzzle piece version. There's a lot of debate as to the correct settings, and it depends on the program you're using. I've typically done a -15 brightness adjustment. I know jondor's recently found a method using alpha correction that works especially well.
Thanks, Alex. It illustrates why this wouldn't end well without some NAM team support. Although I should be good to figure out most of the things. I'll try to get in touch with Jondor.
Quote from: MR.Y on October 30, 2012, 11:19:08 AM
It looks a little bit like old wild-west-tracks...I would change it, so that the basalt has the same texture under the tracks like next to them...
A fair and relevant point. Thanks!
Quote from: io_bg on October 30, 2012, 02:43:17 PMThis is very interesting indeed. It really made me think a bit more about railways in SC4 and in RL. Most of them here look just like your textures. The rest which are new(ly) reconstructed though have grey-ish ballast and concrete sleepers. Maybe that's what Maxis were aiming at ;D
Thanks, Ioann. Concrete sleepers would be light yellow/gray, I think, so still not the Maxis black. The more I think of it, the less I understand their texture.
Now, after the initial thrill of creating something new has subsided, what one should do to make a good, universal-ish product is go back to the source. So, what do rails actually look like in reality, beyond the theoretical, work-biased approach I took in the first post. I'm a perennial skeptic, so I went back to find some Bing maps pictures. Keeping in mind these have varying levels of corruption in lighting and colors, I certainly didn't find any form of my initial textures. And after all, the game is viewed through these angles, not mine!
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2F06_zps62051430.jpg&hash=b95c0d0c85cf2059042da90b7570c9260f7e8043) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2F11_zps9342e46e.jpg&hash=16fffdd89307074d5f810d86671eb2b2dc1cfd53)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2F08_zpsda6a5161.jpg&hash=a5f88556b6679ef508c43a6617a63f9d20f1150f) (https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2F01_zpsa33fa9fb.jpg&hash=8f7bf2b934a15c37587e722bf30b7f42a69d6cf7)
These are all shots from the US, which is what I'm aiming for. (If you want to reconstruct the TGV/ICE/whatever modern, high-speed network, you'd need very different rail specs anyway.)
What stands out more than anything here is that you need to be lucky to get any form of glistening off the rails. As a driver/engineer I'm very used to seeing the shiny surface, but when your view moves away from the center, it disappears (the worn off part of the surface is at best 1-2 inches wide). Meaning they're not even grey, they're dark brown to black. In combination with being unsatisfied with the zoomed out views, I concluded dark rails were the way to go.
Second, the ballast is hardly colored on the sides of the rail. That only happens on very busy tracks like the ones I'm used to drive on. But not for the vast majority in the US. So I kept rust coloring restricted to the area inside the rails.
What that in mind, I created about 20 different STR textures to further test the results in game. Here are the latest 3 of them.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_18_z6_zps8ed89051.jpg&hash=21fa3fe4029c17dd1180d9c7d6e37e489c687cbb)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_18_z5_zpsb7d8b596.jpg&hash=a6523d0b01b70d6f50e3fa833a44d0d225db032a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_18_z4_zps08e3d23c.jpg&hash=98ee1f739d0691f6b97a01dd3e1e9e37ced0dd86)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_18_z3_zps1993f767.jpg&hash=c5d18a85965c774f7596a7345c8b32c781997022)
Ballast is too blueish to my taste, doesn't go well with the rails and sleepers. I like the more yellowish look from the pics above, it'll also fit in more nicely with rural areas, and provide some more contrast when zoomed out.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_20_z6_zps73031885.jpg&hash=0eb6a6432c20804a872d5d42052922fed35d241c)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_20_z5_zpse8821747.jpg&hash=b4497aa2db9be9cfeec112d04ebd8e08e2ff8ccf)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_20_z4_zpsd2ae2607.jpg&hash=88c485ff4c02f6e7d64ec34ba0124fd499e34c10)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_20_z3_zps19617e1d.jpg&hash=8711f31d27d6bb4471006b6ad5b05ac33deba4f2)
Better, but now the contrast with the sleepers is too big.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_21_z6_zpsdc10d6dc.jpg&hash=f87a532da592f35db67e9fb3f79caca366c8e930)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_21_z5_zpsfe7e63ee.jpg&hash=e677333e557bad428b8a9e3fa3bf4c6abfc86f60)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_21_z4_zps586a7525.jpg&hash=3980a26c7234309e2d1189fc6088962132524df2)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_21_z3_zpsa7b62521.jpg&hash=ea2962dbb8ed34c332adbcc23dbb066a121016ba)
Well, I like this one. You can still clearly see the sleepers are made of timber, the rails are rusted at the sides, there is ample shadowing on their sides, too, and the ballast should fit in better than what we're used to. I think I'm quite close to a final texture.
Cheers
Willy
Hi, Swordmaster ...
I saw Your excellent work, but I have only one poor question - can You create thousands for Rail Road plates to MAXIS, NAM and STR by Dedgren ? This only one question - no more .... May be You can create only simple one way rail road as a dirty rail road ? But this a great work with a NAM or no ?
Thank You ...
Quote from: Silur on October 30, 2012, 03:00:24 PM
Hi, Swordmaster ...
I saw Your excellent work, but I have only one poor question - can You create thousands for Rail Road plates to MAXIS, NAM and STR by Dedgren ? This only one question - no more .... May be You can create only simple one way rail road as a dirty rail road ? But this a great work with a NAM or no ?
Thank You ...
No, I want to make a total conversion mod for all railroads. Unless I bump into major issues, I don't see why that would be impossible. Fortunately, we have some great tools to work with so that editing and saving FSH files is easier than you might think. Some skills with the GIMP (a free type of photoshop) are a must, though, but I'm learning as I go.
Not a poor question!
Cheers
Willy
Thank You, Willy ...
I think - this a Great Idea ....
Sometimes I worked with some textures for my own lots with Original Photoshop Pro and others, but we must create moving thru all ...
I like Your idea, but You can create it with more dirty ... and there are many steps for it ...
Good luck,
Nick
Nice progress! I think it would've been cool to have a SAM-like mod for railways - this way we could have different types of textures in one city tile. I'd certainly prefer this to triple rail that has been in development for the RAM. Anyway, I look forward to seeing the further evolution of your texture.
Hi Willy,
Yes. Your third texture looks convincing and realistic. There is some contrast, so you can clearly see the rails stand out a bit. Not too much, but just a bit. The sleepers and the ballast have good colors and are noty too grainy, but also not blurred. Yes..... yes..... I do like it.
Please continue!
I agree, that last example is looking great. Even the far zoom looks nice. :thumbsup:
Yeap, the last one is excellent!
Great Work on the re-texturing of the rail textures, Keep it up!!! :D
First of all, fantastic idea, Willy. &apls
I like the third version very much. Maybe the rails are a tad too brown/rusty. Also the edges of the ballast look a little bit too straight.
I would immediately make the switch to your textures. My only concern is, that the rail textures (jestarr's for example) on lots won't match any more.
Just some quick replies:
Quote from: Silur on October 30, 2012, 04:05:38 PM
Sometimes I worked with some textures for my own lots with Original Photoshop Pro and others, but we must create moving thru all ...
I'm not sure what you mean, Nick, "moving thru all". Do you mean you have to edit every zoom level of the texture? You don't! You edit the 128x128 texture and PngToFshBatch does the rest.
Quote from: io_bg on October 31, 2012, 02:33:44 AM
Nice progress! I think it would've been cool to have a SAM-like mod for railways - this way we could have different types of textures in one city tile. I'd certainly prefer this to triple rail that has been in development for the RAM. Anyway, I look forward to seeing the further evolution of your texture.
Why didn't I think of this? An override for the rail network might be a very good idea! Although I think there is the issue of having to include different puzzle pieces for every texture. It's not a big deal for the SAM because there's only three puzzle pieces that I know of, but for rails there's already quite a few, and there should be a good deal more! Multiplied by the number of textures, you'll have huge tab rings.
Anyway, that's currently beyond the scope of my investigations, but who knows some day.
Quote from: RickD on October 31, 2012, 07:19:31 AM
Maybe the rails are a tad too brown/rusty. Also the edges of the ballast look a little bit too straight.
I would immediately make the switch to your textures. My only concern is, that the rail textures (jestarr's for example) on lots won't match any more.
If you make them lighter, more neutral, you miss out on the contrast with the ballast when zoomed out. I spent most of my morning at work staring at the tracks, and I realize my fist texture was the most realistic: it's all a brownish hue. Rails, sleepers and ballast have mostly the same, dark colors. But just like the RHW doesn't completely look like the real stuff, this texture won't either. It needs to stand out in the game and blend with the existing color palettes. That's my next step. The ballast may also get a little more tweaking to give it some more volume.
Concerning the base/overlay textures, my intention was to include them. But I guess I need to get some clearance first with these folks if I want to override their texture IIDs. Moreover, my plan is to make my own set of new, realistic railyard textures. Later.
Everyone else, thanks for posting! I'm gonna make a basic version now, only with textures for the draggables, non-detailed, and see how it behaves in a real landscape.
Cheers
Willy
Willy nice work you are doing!really like the texture and how it looks in the game!keep up the great work &apls
Nice work here! &apls &apls
I agree the third example is the best, though imho the rails could be toned down a bit both in terms of contrast and saturation.
Other than that, I can only say it was about time someome made realistic rails textures! Keep it up! :thumbsup:
OK. And then....
Who picks up the challenge of making a good catenary mod for these tracks? I like the Highspeed mod a lot, but it is a bit fancy for regular tracks, isn't it?
both are good actualy, but a mid term would be better IMO
keep it up!
Your work here is once again looking just lovely &apls I was wondering if you are considering making HD textures for your rails. Because there are so many pieces perhaps only having basic ones in HD would make more sense, but there are certainly times when an extra level of detail could make zoomed in rail pictures look better.
It's also great news you're wanting to make your own rail yards!
Thanks for your replies!
Quote from: vortext on October 31, 2012, 12:31:39 PMI agree the third example is the best, though imho the rails could be toned down a bit both in terms of contrast and saturation.
Good suggestion! Taken it into account.
Quote from: gn_leugim on November 01, 2012, 04:02:55 AM
both are good actualy, but a mid term would be better IMO
What do you mean with mid term? Or are you talking about the catenaries?
Quote from: noahclem on November 01, 2012, 05:51:42 AM
Your work here is once again looking just lovely &apls I was wondering if you are considering making HD textures for your rails. Because there are so many pieces perhaps only having basic ones in HD would make more sense, but there are certainly times when an extra level of detail could make zoomed in rail pictures look better.
It's also great news you're wanting to make your own rail yards!
Are HD textures even desirable for networks? If you've got a large city full of rails (like I would), wouldn't that increase loading times and all? I don't know much, if anything, about HD textures so someone enlighten me!
Moreover, is it necessary? Judge for yourself; this is zoom 6:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_train_zps824e4148.jpg&hash=6a9d74abbd17c5a869157bc0a2773838ebb3eca0)
The first six textures:
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_curve_zpsd6ca8763.jpg&hash=64e5ab944ce181a6f697635253f05dd09a59679d)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_curve2_zpsd79bd92f.jpg&hash=85bd19272ce668a87abc13bc66a104f533342ab9)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2Ftextures1-5_zpsc915d8ed.png&hash=7688fdaa5d58bf03c0b1088142a30d8cd2f8b232)
To have sleepers of different colors was apparently an added difficulty for me, especially on the diagonals, but I got it now. Just a pixel or two to correct, I think. I'll also reduce the reds by 2 or 3 points, as you can see there's a difference between the PNGs and what the game renders.
One more question: does anyone think I need to widen the ballast even more? In the real world, many STRs occupy a right-of-way for DTR, so a bit more ballast could be beneficial in terms of realism.
Cheers
Willy
Great! &apls
I wouldn't widen the ballast, because it would look unproportional I guess...
Quote from: Swordmaster on October 30, 2012, 02:54:29 PM
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_18_z6_zps8ed89051.jpg&hash=21fa3fe4029c17dd1180d9c7d6e37e489c687cbb)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_18_z5_zpsb7d8b596.jpg&hash=a6523d0b01b70d6f50e3fa833a44d0d225db032a)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_18_z4_zps08e3d23c.jpg&hash=98ee1f739d0691f6b97a01dd3e1e9e37ced0dd86)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_18_z3_zps1993f767.jpg&hash=c5d18a85965c774f7596a7345c8b32c781997022)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_20_z6_zps73031885.jpg&hash=0eb6a6432c20804a872d5d42052922fed35d241c)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_20_z5_zpse8821747.jpg&hash=b4497aa2db9be9cfeec112d04ebd8e08e2ff8ccf)
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_20_z4_zpsd2ae2607.jpg&hash=88c485ff4c02f6e7d64ec34ba0124fd499e34c10)(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2FSTR_test_20_z3_zps19617e1d.jpg&hash=8711f31d27d6bb4471006b6ad5b05ac33deba4f2)
a ballast mid term between these two. :thumbsup:
I remember when the notion of "HD" textures first came about, circa 2009, the NAM Team did some experiments with it, and the initial design spec for the textures used in RHW Version 4.0 were built to accommodate HD textures. However, in further testing, we found out that the increase in filesize was exorbitant. A single closest-zoom texture can run 128KB or larger, as opposed to 16KB at the most for a standard texture, and with as many textures as transit mods require, that would have meant we'd have been looking at a 50-100MB mod, easily, just due to the textures. We also discovered that if special care was taken in the importing process, the difference in quality was negligible, so we jettisoned the idea.
-Alex
Great work here! I definitely like the evolution of your textures to where they are now, and think it's a pretty good color set. Definitely looking forward to more!
Thanks for the explanation, Alex. Looks like some of my PNGs are about 45kb, but I assume you were talking about imported FSHs. I wonder what "special care" one can take during importing, though. If you have a moment, please explain.
And thanks whatevermind. They've been tweaked further, though.
Click for larger image. Shown on the Pyrenean terrain, for a change. As you can see, a lot of people came to watch these new textures :D
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2Ftextures_zpsb9b106f4.jpg&hash=149b616d4d81c7b3d45e167bf025942e08796ac8)
Avenue intersections and diagonal road still to do, as well as some more work on the diagonal switch and two lesser used pieces not in this image. Street crossing needs some work, too. Actually, they all need some work done, as I'll also add some details to represent the track circuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_circuit). But the basic palette should be fixed now.
I still think the ballast could use a widening, though.
I'm particulary pleased with the ortho x diag diamond, which was a bit challenging. Just some final touches to be done.
(https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1204.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb419%2Fswm666%2Frailroad%2520retextures%2Fdiamond_orthoXdiag_zps648c51b4.png&hash=6c2c8585e0809f792bd1ad599f0cfe0abc684310)
Cheers
Willy
Bravo Willy, this is looking better and better! The difference between the old texture and your creation are quite extraordinary when you look at that diagonal road crossing. I'm not going to say that the old STR texture was flawed, but I definitely think your texture is an improvement for folks looking for a older style rail. I'm curious what the transition looks like between your STR texture and the standard double track.
I can tell you that I will be using this re-texture in my CJ - it fits perfectly.
The new theme is really nice, however this is an individual modding job, interesting only to a certain number of players. As io_bg said, a SAM-like approach here is the best way. I had asked about this in the past but modders weren't interested very much (unfortunately i don't know how to make those RULs, to make these myself).
There are many more themes that players would really like. Examples:
- Concrete sleepers
- Ballastless track (prefab or blocks)
- Electrified track (third rail)
- Electrified track (overhead wire). I don't know why this hasn't been done yet, but I think that the wire can be modelled, and the model be used as a network model (like in el-rail and monorail), rather than as a "prop" (in T21s); this way the model is bent, following the terrain variations (and would thus look OK).
- Rack railway
- Other retextures
A RUL expert could make the ID allocations, the RULs, copy/renumber the models and textures etc, with the actual texturing work carried-out by other members.
@Swordmaster: There is only one puzzle piece (the Start piece) for each SAM texture, which 3 puzzle pieces are you talking about? The same could be done for the rail texture variations too; there could be a diagonal start piece too, but this can even be skipped (players can start with the straight piece and then turn it to 45° and bulldoze the short straight section).
And Alex is right, better forget the HD thing, little benefit (resolution is higher than the actual screen resolution) and much more resources usage, while the effect on the game speed, esp if the player has laid extensive networks, is actually unknown.
Quote from: Simcoug on November 03, 2012, 12:20:29 PM
Bravo Willy, this is looking better and better! The difference between the old texture and your creation are quite extraordinary when you look at that diagonal road crossing. I'm not going to say that the old STR texture was flawed, but I definitely think your texture is an improvement for folks looking for a older style rail. I'm curious what the transition looks like between your STR texture and the standard double track.
I can tell you that I will be using this re-texture in my CJ - it fits perfectly.
Thanks! But I need to reiterate that I'm not trying to make an "old" texture. Just a more rural, American type of track. In fact, I have no idea how old railways looked like (no color pictures), although I expect a strong likeness.
As for a crossing with standard double track, do you mean the standard look? Because I'll also retexture DTR. . .
Quote from: cogeo on November 03, 2012, 12:50:02 PMThe new theme is really nice, however this is an individual modding job,
What do you mean by "individual modding job"? I'd be more than happy if someone would want to work with me on this in any way. Maybe I'll need a few pointers if I ever get to stick my own puzzle pieces together, although I'm reading up on Maarten's tutorial.
Quoteinteresting only to a certain number of players.
Well, if you see a way to make it interesting to more players, let me know.
QuoteAs io_bg said, a SAM-like approach here is the best way. I had asked about this in the past but modders weren't interested very much (unfortunately i don't know how to make those RULs, to make these myself).
There are many more themes that players would really like. Examples:
- Concrete sleepers
- Ballastless track (prefab or blocks)
- Electrified track (third rail)
- Electrified track (overhead wire). I don't know why this hasn't been done yet, but I think that the wire can be modelled, and the model be used as a network model (like in el-rail and monorail), rather than as a "prop" (in T21s); this way the model is bent, following the terrain variations (and would thus look OK).
- Rack railway
- Other retextures
A RUL expert could make the ID allocations, the RULs, copy/renumber the models and textures etc, with the actual texturing work carried-out by other members.
@Swordmaster: There is only one puzzle piece (the Start piece) for each SAM texture, which 3 puzzle pieces are you talking about? The same could be done for the rail texture variations too; there could be a diagonal start piece too, but this can even be skipped (players can start with the straight piece and then turn it to 45° and bulldoze the short straight section).
I was talking about the smooth curves for some of the SAM streets. Once you make the smooth curves and switches for the rail variants you mentioned, wouldn't you need to make a new puzzle piece for every such curve for every different texture?
Cheers
Willy
Just stopping by to say spectacular work on the latest textures Willy. The ortho x diag diamond crossing is indeed really nice!
Also congrats on NAM associate promotion!
Great work on the railroad textures! I currently use a railroad texture MOD by rivit, but I think I like yours even more. If you want to make different textures, you could also upload it as separate downloads or multiple files, so one can choose which one he wants to use.
-Matthijs
Quote from: Swordmaster
Thanks! But I need to reiterate that I'm not trying to make an "old" texture. Just a more rural, American type of track. In fact, I have no idea how old railways looked like (no color pictures), although I expect a strong likeness.
Maybe 'old' wasn't the right word - how about 'used', in any case it definitely looks authentic.
Quote from: Swordmaster
As for a crossing with standard double track, do you mean the standard look? Because I'll also retexture DTR. . .
Even better! Count me in as a user of this re-texture. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Swordmaster on November 03, 2012, 02:42:37 PM
Thanks! But I need to reiterate that I'm not trying to make an "old" texture. Just a more rural, American type of track. In fact, I have no idea how old railways looked like (no color pictures), although I expect a strong likeness.
Hmm, I also thought you were after an "old" look (which is not a bad thing). Because newer tracks are with concrete sleepers around here.
Take a look and compare how the new track in the middle stands out against the older ones: http://goo.gl/maps/27s4f
That being said, I love the textures from the last picture. It is especially impressive at the Avenue crossing where we can see the comparison between yours and Maxis. If I didn't know those grey texture was supposed to be railtracks I probably wouldn't recognize them next to yours.
It looks great, Willy
I'm among the guy who has got tired of the original ones too ;D
I've always been frightened to death by the textures of tracks - they seem so difficult with such small details. I thought this was a terrible job, which requires far more time than in road textures.