What causes Prop Pox (and how to avoid it)

[River.Song]

 
Hello!

I want to thank all the contributors to this topic.  I am fairly new to SC4 and even newer at adding custom content, but this topic popped up while I was looking at seasonal tree mods.  After reading over 100 pages on a few different threads this topic has my head spinning!

I am curious about a few points...

Is there a list  of all known files to cause this issue?

Three files that I saw listed in most of the threads:

PEG-OWW2_BDK_RESOURCE.DAT
PEG_TrailPark-Engine_305a.dat
PEG_CDK--IND_205.dat

I see the above files are currently available on the STEX, have they been fixed?

On two of the threads, it was pointed out that as long as suspected Pox files are not removed, then prop-pox should not happen.  Is this correct?

[vortext]

Is there a list  of all known files to cause this issue?

no, unfortunately not.

I see the above files are currently available on the STEX, have they been fixed?

afaik they have not been fixed.

On two of the threads, it was pointed out that as long as suspected Pox files are not removed, then prop-pox should not happen.  Is this correct?

No, it doesn't matter if the actual files are removed or not. What matters is whether or not the affected props are being disabled in the savegame file, which for examples happens when a growable lot upgrades.

[Wiimeiser]

Maybe we should, you know, stop modifying existing props? If you try to do that in Gmod both versions of the model fail to load altogether and it spams errors like "Error Vertex File for 'Humans\Group03\Female_07.mdl' checksum -1076405403 should be -710229447"* once per frame per model; not 100% sure what happens but it appears to be having two mdl files with the same name, for example, HL2E2's gnome and Rockford's gnome...

*In other words, I think it's expecting something like (1 = 0), which is mathematically impossible

[River.Song]

How to avoid the problem

3-   Open the PEG_OWW2_BDK_RESOURCE.DAT file with the ilive Reader, change the exemplar name (p.ex., add a PEG_ before each name) and the instance of the items 11, 12, 13 and 14 (mark each one and select "generate new instance"), and save the file. Load each of the beach lots into LotEditor and replace each occurrence of these props by the corresponding new PEG_* prop and save the lots. Replace the original lots by the modified ones. They will work exactly as designed, but will no longer lead to Prop Pox.

So playing with the ilive Reader I was able to figure out how to change the exemplar names of the 4 questionable props, but when it comes to generating the new instance of the items, is it just as simple as I am reading it?  Or do I need to request an "instance (iid) range" first from y'all?

I don't want to create a new problem.

-R

[mgb204]

Three files that I saw listed in most of the threads:

PEG-OWW2_BDK_RESOURCE.DAT
PEG_TrailPark-Engine_305a.dat
PEG_CDK--IND_205.dat

I see the above files are currently available on the STEX, have they been fixed?

Here's one of the problems re: this thread, people don't generally understand the issue all that well. It should be noted that neither PEG_TrailPark-Engine_305a.dat or PEG_CDK--IND_205.dat have actually been shown to cause prop pox. So many files are "questioned", but the reality is that only the two initial files noted at the beginning of the thread, were ever linked to the problem. Those are the PEG-OWW2_BDK_RESOURCE.DAT (Beach Development Kit) and one file from BSC which was swiftly fixed. A lot of paranoia has sadly been generated by this thread, hence the accusations of problems with other files, none of which have ever turned out to have such problems.

You also need to understand that once you've had the affected files in your plugins folder, if you saved any cities whilst they were there, those cities *could* develop the problem. Removing the files or fixing them, having previously saved with them present, will not change the chance of problems developing one day. The only way to ensure no problems exist is never to save a city with the "broken" files in the first place. So if you've done this before knowing about the problem, what do you do? Note how the issue is mainly an issue associated with players using large tiles, with large swathes of small 1x1/1x2 houses. If you don't play this way, chances are Prop Pox will never occur. If you do though, perhaps consider how far developed your cities are? If they are in their infancy, perhaps it's safer to start over now you've fixed the cause, rather than risk finding your cities are doomed later on? If the problem does occur, even having backups will not help you to resolve the problem.

As for what ID to use for the new props, just right click the exemplar and click on Generate New Group and Instance. A random ID is the best to use for props, there is no need to have one issued for props. With billions of possibilities, the chances of conflicts are mathematically insignificant..

Maybe we should, you know, stop modifying existing props?

As a user, you are never forced to install such modifications. Again, that viewpoint is a classic example of the over-hyped paranoia the words prop pox bring about.

Fact: One file and 4-5 props have been altered in a way that seems to cause problems, without being "fixed". I'm sure anyone who's read a little of this thread doesn't need it explained why that is. So based on one tiny blip, however catastrophic it might be IF it happens, we should stop doing a thing that is standard practise and has many benefits? No, I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more in this case.

[River.Song]

Hello,

So, I edited the 4 props in "PEG-OWW2_BDK_RESOURCE.DAT".  Then edited the three beach lots that had the modified Maxis props, switching them for the newly named Peg_ props.  When I save the lots, they save separately from the original DAT file.  Do I need to edit the other Lots too, just to remove them from the DAT file?

-R

[mgb204]

If you are comfortable with using Reader, I'd remove the original lots from the DAT file. Then copy over the lots with those modifications back into the DAT file. Then you can discard the lots and just use the updated DAT from here.

Depending on how you saved them in the LE (did you use Save or Save As), the former will have the same ID, i.e. override the originals. But the later will give your new lots a unique ID. Ideally you'd have used Save. In which case you can also load the lots after the DAT file and it will all work.

Also, in case you didn't know, PIM-X is an improved tool for replacing both the PIM and LE from Maxis. One of it's benefits is that you can save files/modifications inside the original DAT, without having to create new lots, you should check that out.

[Silur]

This conversation has no end. A man who knows IliveReader, Gmax and Phototoshop can create all and do it all. Why everyone needs a beach from PEGASUS?. Maybe we can insert another beach and will not torment PEGASUS... He's a great artist with dozens of lovely files for SC4. We know the dangers of PROP POX is not the first year. Maybe it is not necessary to remake the original from PEGASUS but use another? Maybe put this in the SC4Devotion's "New Member Area" line?

[River.Song]

Hello,

@mgb204 - Thanks for the info. I will checkout the PIM-X tool.  Since it's only a few lots, and I have a copy of Pegasus' original, I will just edit them again in the new program.

@Silur - I am still at the crawl stage. I have only been playing for about a month and this is my first endeavour into editing.  Looking through some of my father's files he had a lovely island resort, with a great looking beach.  Much of his island was with Pegasus' creations, so I wanted to replicate it in my region.
As for the other stuff, I plan to get there... Eventually. However, I will need to get proficient at a more basic task before I can head down that road.

-R

[Silur]

Good luck with Your work. My advice - don't climb on the MAXIS beaches by PEGASUS. These things are very ambiguous... Why are you doing this in the beginning... There are many other beaches ... Good Luck once more! We have thousands of files for SC4, but somehow always come back to Pegasus's Beach ...

[Seaman]

I am really sorry for bothering you. I have read this thread but there's so much information in there, it's hard for me to sort for the relevant.

After I got totally confused I decided to remove the BDK plugin since I didn't use it at all and got it in the first place for the sake of completing my CDK3 collection.

A) I have checked my region with the savegame explorer. Some of my tiles have nonzero disabled props, some don't. - I guess that means some tile are affected and some don't? (all affected are big tiles intended to be suburban and have quite some 1x2 low dens residentials... any advice here?)

If you do though, perhaps consider how far developed your cities are? If they are in their infancy, perhaps it's safer to start over now you've fixed the cause, rather than risk finding your cities are doomed later on?

B) When you say "start over" do you mean completely restart the region? Or is there a way to restart single city tiles without taking over the infection? I've read that you should not "obliterate" your city.

[Silur]

This topic has no end...

[mgb204]

B) When you say "start over" do you mean completely restart the region? Or is there a way to restart single city tiles without taking over the infection? I've read that you should not "obliterate" your city.

One solution would be to move the non affected tiles to a blank region. In essence what you need to do is ensure a new savefile for each city is generated, which using "obliterate" won't do. That process would work something like this:

Make a copy of your previous map/region, giving it a different name. Use the "Import City" feature to import all the unaffected city tiles from your old save file/region, in the correct locations of the new region. When that's done, you'll be left with blank cities with new savefiles in those locations that were affected by the problem. But they should conform to the topology of the map. You can then archive the old region or delete is as desired.

As always, make a backup of the entire region before you start, just in case something goes wrong. Import = Move, NOT copy BTW.

[matias93]

Also, an option to preserve the geography of a corrupted city tile (in case of any corruption, not only the pox) is to use some mapping program (sc4 mapper, sc4terraformer, etc) to create an empty region. Then you import the clean cities to your old region without having to manually terraform them back.

[Seaman]

thx for the help!

This topic has no end...

I know, I wonder why!? I guess the type of SC4 player who cares about the pox puts a lot of effort into his/her region. It's like building your model railroad with a glue that is likely to fail after some years. You need a certain "c'est la vie"-type of character to enjoy building with that glue... 

one last question (hopefully) from my side:
SC4 savegame explorer found disabled props in some of my cities but says it's pox free (didn't see the green tag in the tool immediatly). Am I correct in my assumption, that those cities are infected and will likely show symptoms after reaching the critical filesize, although they are currently without symptoms, hence pox free at the moment?

[matias93]

If I understand th phenomenon correctly, that's precisely the case. And indeed, it is fairly difficult to reach the critical file size on anything but a big city tile, so you would be relatively safe with pre-poxed medium and small cities. For that and other reasons it is recommendable to reserve big tiles for mostly untouched environments, with as few props as possible (but hey! MMPs aren't props!)

[CT14]

I have prop pox in a city... swaths of tiles lose their props at once, it gets worse every save.  Yes, the city is a large tile full of 1x2 custom residentials and T21s.

Uncompressed size of type 0x2977AA47 file is 15411379 bytes.

A quick search of my plugins folder found no less than 7 files which contain props in group 0xC977C536. I need to now cross-check IDs to see which ones share ID with the Maxis exemplars.

[matias93]

I have prop pox in a city... swaths of tiles lose their props at once, it gets worse every save.  Yes, the city is a large tile full of 1x2 custom residentials and T21s.

Uncompressed size of type 0x2977AA47 file is 15411379 bytes.

A quick search of my plugins folder found no less than 7 files which contain props in group 0xC977C536. I need to now cross-check IDs to see which ones share ID with the Maxis exemplars.

I'm so sorry, it's always a big downer to see so much work spoilt for a few props.


It would be very useful though that you make the list available, to check our own plugins and resolve the problem before it appears.

[Silur]

There were over 100 000 players in SC4 - and only units were the problem... They called this "Prop Pox" - this is very convenient. Check your files in the Plugin and read the "ReadMe" text. Who of us reading the "ReadMe" - zero. Some of us have heard about "Prop Pox" - and all their problems blamed on it. This is not a problem!!! There is no such problem - the problem in our facilities in our PLUGINS !!!   
If we have a legal option SC4 and barely know how to work with Ilive Reader - no problem. In 14 years of playing with SC4 (more than 10 years here and on Simtropolis) - I see that problem very often occur in people with illegal versions of SC4 or garbage in Plugins.
Play SC4 like about 2000 people in this world - and we are reminded of the "Prop Pox" 
Thank you for your attention.

[CT14]

It's cool, I look at those cities (this is the second one now) as practice.

I got a bunch of good screens before it started and I'll post some in the Show Us... threads.

I will also post the list of files I modify, but not until after I've verified that it actually solved the problem. 

Per the method near the beginning of the thread, building a city/growing the prop file size to the ~6MB point where pox would occur, if prop exemplars sharing Maxis group and instance ID values but differing in filesize were still present.

I'm not sure why there still seem to be unlocked pox sources downloadable, but then I have content from 6 or 7 different places.

I also haven't read all 37 pages here, just the first 10-12 and last few, so it's possible such a list of pox sources already got posted sometime in the last 8 years...

Currently scanning all TGIs in my plugins for conflicts, using SC4Reader: http://sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=16386.0

I've already confirmed a couple of cases that would cause pox, but I want to make sure I have them all...