The FrankU and Nexis CO-OP

[Simmer2]

Hi Fred.

Just by looking at the pics I would scale the buildings about 20-30% on the Z axis.

Nick

[FrankU]

@ Nick
I suppose you suggest to make the barns 20 to 30% higher? Well, I won't fancy that, because that set is finished already, although I understand why you say that.
Fred's concern was about the props: tractors, silo's etc.

@ Fred
As we all know scale is a terrible thing in SC4. We know why...
Considering this fact my opinions are:
- the blue and the green tractor look a bit too large, compared to the cars and the buildings. I know there are enormous tractors out there, and I fear the ones in Canada are even larger than the monsters I see around here in the Netherlands. Nonetheless I think they should be scaled down a bit, because now they are almost as large as the barns.
- the large silo's are a problem: I think they are very large, but that is perhaps only because I do not see them around here. I have seen images of large farms, also in Europe, with skyscraper high silo's, so if you need them for that kind of farms: say Stage 5 and up, I suppose they are allright.
- the small silo's seem OK to me.
- the silage silo's look OK too.
- the smaller sheds and barns look OK too.

So Fred: I think you should size down the tractors a bit and then just go on rendereing these fine props!

Greetings,
Frank

[mrbisonm]

No Testers? Where are you guys?

Thanks Simmer2. and yes, I realized that the lower parts of the mainbuildings are a little low, although they are 18 feet in height, which is actually too high IRL. Besides, these props are already Finals, haven't finished them years ago. So are all the manure props.
In this case here it is the silos and the machinery and sheds that were considered as "out of scale" by me.

FrankU, I w9ill seriously condier the sizes of the tractor, I should have added smaller ones, but the details cannot be seen. Some will stay this size, like the Big JD's, Fendts (like the 900 or 1000 series) aand Case, which can be enormous and almost take the whole road. Of course, we have bigger Tractors, because some fields here aren't in the dozen of hectars, but in several hundreds and sometimes thousands. Not comparible with European Standars, especially Holland's. But Canada, the US, Australia and places in Russia and South-America (Brasil) need them and are actually common.
If you look carefully on Farmset 3, the smallest one, there's a regular medium big sized Tractor on the left side of the red IH Case 380 Tractor.
I took the Maxis tractor as an example for size, which is supposed to be a small medium one. I guess I shouldn't have done so.
So I guess the tractors will be resized a little, maybe also the machinery and implements. I'll do it tonight.

I still need those Testers and their opinions, since I do not want to have only one opinion (not that I don't trust) More opinions, better results.


Thanks you two, let more comments appear...


Fred

[mattb325]

I think you will struggle to get testers to be honest. Hopefully someone can prove me wrong....

The simplest thing to do is to line up your props in the Lot Editor with similar in-game props to ascertain whether these are 'off scale' or not. Take screen-shots. Then line up your props with similar props of content creators that you like and see how yours stack up. Take screen shots.

Wait a day or two and then look at both sets of screen shots again. You will easily be able to judge whether your models are suitable or not.

[Simmer2]

I want you to have a serious look at the size (SCALE) of the different bldgs and appliances used, carefully evaluate them and let me know how their sizes appear through your eyes and come back to me with the results.

@FrankU Oh I was under the impression that Fred was referring to the buildings as well. (in bold?)^^

My bad if not.

Nick

[paddy0174]

I would be happy to test them, but I have to say upfront, I never, ever have done anything, that has to do with farming in SC4... *oops*

Years ago I was only interested in kyscrapers and such things. In the last year, I developed an old region, but didn't like it. And in my new region I haven't started anything farming.

You choose, I'm happy to test, but I'm not unhappy if not

[mrbisonm]

mattb325, I guess you're right, and it is exactly what I am going to do....So Players, forget it!

You just have to take what u get or don't.

Simmer2, sorry I explained myself wrongly, meaning to compare the samll props with the bldgs. I should have mentioned that the mainbuildings are already finished and packed. No harm done.

Thanks paddy0174, I will do without. Nothing personal

Fred

[FrankU]

I want you to have a serious look at the size (SCALE) of the different bldgs and appliances used, carefully evaluate them and let me know how their sizes appear through your eyes and come back to me with the results.

@FrankU Oh I was under the impression that Fred was referring to the buildings as well. (in bold?)^^

My bad if not.

Nick

Hi Nick,

No hard feelings of course. Fred was indeed a bit unclear. And to me it was obvious, because I have the buildings in my pluginsfolder already for a long time.

Greetings,
Frank

[mrbisonm]

FrankU, what is the best acurate Mainbuilding in the set one of the MFP1. Just name it and I will take this one for the mainexample to compare my props.
As long as I haven't cleared that scale problem of mine, I can't finalize things.

Thanks, I'll get back to you with Set III, the silos, as soon as I have compared their scale to your chosen barnmodel.
Yesterday I have reduced all Tractors, almost that is, a small handful left for tonight.

Fred

[mrbisonm]

Just for the size the models are rendered in low (quicker).
Could it be that they are still a little too big?
They are supposed to be medium big tractors in the range of 250 Hp, something like a 7200 MF, a 6900 JD or 360 IHCase, Canadian Standards

Geeez, I hate scaling SC4 stuff.......lol





I don't know why two models are whitish, they are supposed to be John Deere Green......maybe the low rendering.......

Fred


Edit: Another picture with the red Maxis Tractor for reference, but this one in my opinion is way out of scale.




BTW, I am still wondering why the Maxis Tractor seem to have two exaust pipes.....never seen this.   

[mattb325]

They - and the Maxis tractor - look fine: according to the web, a John Deere 7200 is 114" (2.9m) tall.

So, if that is a medium tractor (I'm just going to take your word for it as I don't know one tractor from the next) then with accepted community scaling of 133% in gmax it should be 2.9m x 1.33 = 3.9m (approx). All X and Y (176"/4.5m and 98"/2.5m) measurements should be accurate to true life.

Sorry about Feet and Inches from the web...I might as well be talking palmus major and pes 

[fantozzi]

BTW, I am still wondering why the Maxis Tractor seem to have two exaust pipes.....never seen this.   

Hm, maybe by mistake, they were confused with those american WW2 tractors by Chalmers and Case VAI



having those long air compressor tubes close to the exhaust pipe? 

[mrbisonm]

They - and the Maxis tractor - look fine: according to the web, a John Deere 7200 is 114" (2.9m) tall.

So, if that is a medium tractor (I'm just going to take your word for it as I don't know one tractor from the next) then with accepted community scaling of 133% in gmax it should be 2.9m x 1.33 = 3.9m (approx). All X and Y (176"/4.5m and 98"/2.5m) measurements should be accurate to true life.

Sorry about Feet and Inches from the web...I might as well be talking palmus major and pes 

Feet and inches and pounds and gallons are better for me to understand, although I was born in Germany, but I live in Quebec/Canada, where feet and gallons are still used by folks older than 35 (not official though) . Thanks for the comment and explanations though.

BTW, I am still wondering why the Maxis Tractor seem to have two exaust pipes.....never seen this.   

Hm, maybe by mistake, they were confused with those american WW2 tractors by Chalmers and Case VAI



having those long air compressor tubes close to the exhaust pipe? 

Darn, that's right, I all forgot about these.....

Fred


EDIT:   I have been scaling and scaling and scaling and scaling and scaling the same freaking props for the whole day over and over again. Exausted.

I think it is becoming an obsession somehow.......Need a day off....gonna play Civ III now and then tomorrow The settlers 7, then to bed and see after tomorrow what brings.........



Fred

[mrbisonm]

Tractor props:

Here are two example models of my Tractor props. a Massey and a John Deere of medium/ large sizes. I also have many larger and smaller Tractors, all are in 90 and 45 degree positions
I have in this set:
IH Case
Fendt
Deutz
Ford
Massey
Farmall
Kirovets
Lindner
Kubota
New Holland
Claas (Claas)
Zetor
JCB (JCB)
and Valmet tractors and machinery
....in other words, ....I think I have them all.

Fred




FrankU,

I think I found the right scales for my models, I have send them for you to test. If they're alright with you, I will send the whole bunch. If not, I will quickly re-adjust the models and you'll get them later this coming week. No problem to me.

[fantozzi]

Tell you a secret: I don't care about scaling and the 133%-thing on the vertical axis. That's why I can't offer help here. I only care if it looks good. When I notice a prop looses too much details, I don't care about wrong or right - I just scale it up a little bit to keep some details.

At the end it is a game. And as we know - perspective, size, beauty this is all made up by our brains. The most important thing is: it must be looking good. The right scale - that's just the cream on the coffee but not the coffee itself. IMHO.

[CT14]

Those modern tractors look great! I think you have the scale just about right as those are massive vehicles in real life. For what it's worth, I've been doing vehicles to true scale, then with 133% vertical AND 120% overall on top of that. It's whatever looks good and fits the other props, in the end.

[mrbisonm]

Tell you a secret: I don't care about scaling and the 133%-thing on the vertical axis. That's why I can't offer help here. I only care if it looks good. When I notice a prop looses too much details, I don't care about wrong or right - I just scale it up a little bit to keep some details.

At the end it is a game. And as we know - perspective, size, beauty this is all made up by our brains. The most important thing is: it must be looking good. The right scale - that's just the cream on the coffee but not the coffee itself. IMHO.

Somehow I think you're darn right! I like your coffee theory too.....

Those modern tractors look great! I think you have the scale just about right as those are massive vehicles in real life. For what it's worth, I've been doing vehicles to true scale, then with 133% vertical AND 120% overall on top of that. It's whatever looks good and fits the other props, in the end.

If you say they look good, then they probably are, something I thought also.
I'll wait and see what FrankU has to say about them too and then finalize the whole Pack.
Thanks guys for the useful comments, always appreciated.

[AsimPika3172]

Nice tractors!  Keep moving forward! 

[mrbisonm]

...was out of town for the last couple of days and also busy with all that white stuff we received lately. Just look what my gardenhouse looks like, can't even enter it anymore.....




I will finish rendering the MFP1 Tractors Set this weekend. I did what was possible with the scale, comparing it tto Peg's, Maxis and other already existing Farm machinery. The set will contain 18 Tractors, the biggest (western style) will come later in a add-on like set. I don't know what people in other countries really use, but I chose about 15 different companies, which I see around here. Nowadays tractors from all over the world have appeared here in Canada, especially many German and Japanese. No wonder, since the american big tractor companies are being sold to italian and other Agroproduct countries to meet the universal quality standards.
When I started farming about 45 years ago, we saw mostly John Deere, International Harvester, Massey Ferguson, Ford and Farmall. That changed, Massey was bought by europeans, ih is now case and being owned by euros, Ford was dismantled and replaced with better quality by New Holland and Farmall is completely dead. Only John Deere is still around, loosing slowly its feathers too if they don't produce better qualities soon.
Personally I'm a Fendt Fan, nothing like a Fendt once you tried them. But I also have a small wekness for JD and Massey, probably my nostalgy from the old days.

So, here they are, 18 models in all their colours. Dorftraktors are non specific trades, they could be Lindner, Schlueter, Steyr, Renault, Fiat etc, They are the most common traktors used mostly in Europe, at the time when farming was still a family affair and not an industry.

Now I will start to gather the silosets, then the shed sets. They are all finished, only have to be found in my big MFP1 mess and datpacked.
Enjoy.......soon at a retailer near you.

Fred

[fantozzi]

White stuff? Wasn't it marihuana recently legalized?

The biggest tractor manufacturing site in Germany is in Mannheim, close to Heidelberg. 2900 employees working there and every 3 senconds a tractor is completed. Two thirds of all tractors built in germany coming from this site in Mannheim. Long ago this was the Lanz AG who manufactured the legendary "Bulldog". In 1956 Lanz AG was bought by John Deere. May sound funny but this makes John Deere germany's biggest tractor maker. John Deere also is the best selling. Second: Fendt, Third: Deutz.

Thank you so much for this variation of tractors. To me they are great. Each one shows "character": the fast friend, the working horse, the muscle man etc. I know a french prop pack with Renault and Fiat.  If we imagine the "Dorftractor" to be a Deutz - with your set Sims have now a good and pretty realistic choice of tractors.

Well done Mr. Bisonm.