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RealRailway (RRW) - Development and Support

Started by Swordmaster, June 14, 2013, 08:42:19 AM

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FlyHigh

Quote from: Swordmaster on October 21, 2013, 03:01:16 AM
started the STR Minicurves textures and did some RULing ;D

Cheers
Willy

Seems pretty awesome. I'm sure there's quite a lot to be said about the process of actually turning this into a reality but I'm sure it's a lot easier to mod the STR as it was completely done by the NAM (am I wrong?  ()what() )

Quote from: FrankU on October 21, 2013, 03:06:35 AM
The curves are so smooth, and the colours are realistic. I have the feeling though that the blockings (what do we call these things that avoid trains from driving over the end of the rails?) are a bit blurred. Maybe you can use the Maxis ones? Or is it just the images?

I think what you're saying about the rail ends is actually one of the flaws of rendering a small HD model. It is a known fact that these props will look a bit blurry but there's no real way to fix it as it's due to the the procedure implemented by SimFox with the BAT4MAX.
It's a compromise.
>>> Maxwell R. Black <<<
* * *

* * *

FrankU

Quote from: FlyHigh on October 21, 2013, 06:39:53 AM
I think what you're saying about the rail ends is actually one of the flaws of rendering a small HD model. It is a known fact that these props will look a bit blurry but there's no real way to fix it as it's due to the the procedure implemented by SimFox with the BAT4MAX.
It's a compromise.

Ah, rail ends, how simple. OK. I'll try to remember that.
So maybe that would mean that these models should not be rendered in HD?

FlyHigh

It really depends on the mod creator but I don't mind having the props a bit blurry if I can actually understand what they are. Most of the SD props are not really comprehensive. The pixelation is way too severe.
>>> Maxwell R. Black <<<
* * *

* * *

Indiana Joe

Quote from: FlyHigh on October 21, 2013, 06:39:53 AM
Quote from: Swordmaster on October 21, 2013, 03:01:16 AM
started the STR Minicurves textures and did some RULing ;D

Cheers
Willy

Seems pretty awesome. I'm sure there's quite a lot to be said about the process of actually turning this into a reality but I'm sure it's a lot easier to mod the STR as it was completely done by the NAM (am I wrong?  ()what() )

Quote from: FrankU on October 21, 2013, 03:06:35 AM
The curves are so smooth, and the colours are realistic. I have the feeling though that the blockings (what do we call these things that avoid trains from driving over the end of the rails?) are a bit blurred. Maybe you can use the Maxis ones? Or is it just the images?

I think what you're saying about the rail ends is actually one of the flaws of rendering a small HD model. It is a known fact that these props will look a bit blurry but there's no real way to fix it as it's due to the the procedure implemented by SimFox with the BAT4MAX.
It's a compromise.

If anything, I think modding STR would be harder because it's an override network.  But that's not a huge factor in the work Willy's doing, and because he's already done it with DTR, I'm sure it's going a bit faster.

The bumper stops are indeed blurry; they are just as bad in-game.  I agree they could use some HD treatment, but that's not exactly at the top of Willy's to-do list.  If any BATers want to give it a shot though, just say something.   ;)

Kergelen

What you are doing here is so incredible and so... smooth! &apls &apls

Amazing comparison with Maxis rail.


                                    Links to SC4 websites

Simcoug

STR is looking smooth!    :thumbsup:

Something I just thought of, are you planning on making these available as overlays textures for the LE crowd?

Indiana Joe

Quote from: Simcoug on October 21, 2013, 10:13:38 AM
STR is looking smooth!    :thumbsup:

Something I just thought of, are you planning on making these available as overlays textures for the LE crowd?

Affirmative.  Read the FAQ.   :thumbsup:

Girafe

Really good job on the smoothed curves and I second a texturepack available for LOTters  ;)
The Floraler

This is the end, hold your breath and count to ten, feel the earth move, and then...

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *    *   *   *   *   *    * 

Simcoug

Quote from: Indiana Joe
Affirmative.  Read the FAQ.   :thumbsup:
Oh man, reading is so... hard!  $%Grinno$%

Swordmaster

Thanks everyone!


Quote from: FrankU on October 21, 2013, 03:06:35 AM
The curves are so smooth, and the colours are realistic. I have the feeling though that the blockings (what do we call these things that avoid trains from driving over the end of the rails?) are a bit blurred. Maybe you can use the Maxis ones? Or is it just the images?

We call them bumpers in the US and buffer stops in the UK (and stootbok in Dutch ;))

The ones you see were custom made (SD) models by Matt (threestooges) since I needed FA-3 angled bumpers; the orthogonal and diagonal versions were made as well to be consistent. Unfortunately, he's since lost the original files, so he'd have to make completely new models if he were to tweak them further. There's a problem with props this small in that their shadows not always show (at least not on my system). I first have to zoom in to level 6, rotate, and zoom out again -- then the shadows show. This occurs with many different props so it's not really relevant to the topic here, but it explains why they appear more blurry than they really are.

Fortunately, Matt made a US version as well which you haven't seen yet. My idea is to make this an option for people to choose whichever bumpers they want. Volunteers are of course welcome to make their own variations, HD or otherwise.

Quote from: FrankU on October 21, 2013, 03:06:35 AM
And another: are you going to provide a small set of textures for lots, so that we can edit our station lots to fit in with the dragged rails?

See the FAQ Frank ;)   In fact this is one of the easiest steps since I can batch convert all textures to the color-corrected LOT versions.


Quote from: FlyHigh on October 21, 2013, 06:39:53 AM
Seems pretty awesome. I'm sure there's quite a lot to be said about the process of actually turning this into a reality but I'm sure it's a lot easier to mod the STR as it was completely done by the NAM (am I wrong?  ()what() )

I don't know to what extent you're familiar with RUL code, but INRUL (what the basic network primarily relies on) and RUL-2 code (what the STR overrides require) are two rather different beasts, both with their specific strong and weak points. For instance, something like the OxO crossing requires very little INRUL code to define, but in RUL-2 these are the most code-intensive tiles. But when all comes down I'd say that the required effort is roughly equal for both.


Quote from: Indiana Joe on October 21, 2013, 09:48:14 AMIf anything, I think modding STR would be harder because it's an override network.  But that's not a huge factor in the work Willy's doing, and because he's already done it with DTR, I'm sure it's going a bit faster.

I challenge you to learn rail INRULs. ;D Just to give you a teaser: road layouts use seven different flags: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 11, and 13. Rail layouts, on the other hand, use 0, 1, 2, 3, 11, 13, 21, 22, 23, 32, 42, 52, 62, and 72. Some of these appear to be identical to the untrained eye. Consider the following dragging pattern:




This will place a "13" flag in the middle of the curve, where the arrow points. However, if you drag this curve in this subtly different manner. . .




. . . you will place a "42" flag ;)


That means every 45° curve has to be defined by at least two different INRUL entries--one with each set of flags. And that's just the start. For every orthogonal switch, there are three such flags. And diagonal switches go even crazier. Not to mention the fact that some of these flags are then shared with apparently totally unrelated setups, meaning that you cannot tell for sure what a certain flag is gonna produce. It may be a curve, it may be a switch, it may even be a furry creature from Alpha Centauri. The solution is to define each setup as precisely (i.e. with as many surrounding tiles and as few wild cards) as possible, to make sure the texture selection can be equally precise. Which is exactly the reason why the advanced rail INRUL file has decupled in size.

In short, RUL-2, even taking all the rotation and flip mechanisms into account, boils down to manual labor whereas INRULing reminds me more of solving math problems.


Cheers
Willy

memo

#311
More important to note by far is that Willy is the one and only person out there who really knows the rail flags! :thumbsup: It's rather like he's doing magic tricks than maths.


I've actually never encountered the furry creature...

GDO29Anagram

#312
Quote from: Swordmaster on October 21, 2013, 02:59:26 PM
I challenge you to learn rail INRULs. ;D Just to give you a teaser: road layouts use seven different flags: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 11, and 13. Rail layouts, on the other hand, use 0, 1, 2, 3, 11, 13, 21, 22, 23, 32, 42, 52, 62, and 72.

Let's see how much I knowr...

INRULs are special overrides that affect a 5x5 area of network tiles, with the zeroth tile in the centre and the other 24 tiles (1 to 24) wrapping around the zeroth tile. It doesn't have to be 25 tiles, but it can be if you wanted it to. INRULs only work solely on one network, hence why INRULs are even named INRUL: Individual Network Rule.

There are actually two INRULs per network: One that defines the textures/paths/whatever assigned for each tile per specific set of flags (like 0,2,0,2 would be the orthogonal tile), the basic INRUL, and the other whose name is actually called "Supplementary Individual Network Rule". This is INRUL-14 for RHW, for example; in fact, all of the supplementary INRULs are even-numbered.

What makes them separate from RUL-2, for example, is that RUL-2 works one tile at a time, and because it works one tile at a time, it requires more code, but using both in conjunction (and especially with RUL-1) can be extremely powerful, and those are how the most complex Flex pieces are made.

When dealing with special overrides, we want the supplementary INRUL, but in both the basic and supplementary INRULs, 0 flags represents no connection, 1 and 3 flags are diagonal connections (diagonal left and diagonal right, as I call them), 2 flags are orthogonal connections, and 11 and 13 flags are ortho-diag blend connections (blend left and blend right, as I learnt them). 4 flags aren't used at all with any other network unless it's a 2-tile base network, like MHW or Avenue. These are used for the median, but the RHW, for example, can be forced to use "4" flags by writing a corresponding INRUL entry. "4" flags also make for excellent starters, but it makes setups with "4" flags impossible to draw with a single-tile network without having to write it in RUL-2 as a Flex piece or starter. I already know that Rail uses a bajillion more flags, but I don't know what they correspond to.

Also, RHW FlexRamps use a lot of "4" flags because they're slope-tolerant, and the Rail-based starters on the RHW FlexTransitions also use "4" flag. This is how it's possible for FlexRamps to be slope-tolerant (whereas the current DRIs and puzzle-based ramps will flatten bits of land) and how the FlexOST can even be placed on an extreme slope at all.

A bit of sample code from Github; this is part of the FlexHT, and in the Checktypes, it has a 4 flag.

[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x00005334]
;Added by Tarkus 09.23.2012
;RHW FlexHT-L0-to-L2 Ortho
Piece = 0.0, 16.0, 0, 0, 0x5caee405
PreviewEffect = preview_flexhtrans_l2___000

CellLayout=....
CellLayout=..b<
CellLayout=..a.
CellLayout=..c.
CellLayout=..c.
CellLayout=..d.
CellLayout=..c.
CellLayout=..c.
CellLayout=..d.
CellLayout=..^.

CheckType = a - rail: 0x00000400 dirtroad: 0x02000200, 0xFFFFFFFF optional
CheckType = b - dirtroad: 0x00000000
CheckType = c - dirtroad: 0x02000200, 0xFF00FF00 optional
CheckType = d - rail: 0x00040404 dirtroad: 0x02000200, 0xFFFFFFFF optional


The INRUL flags can be translated to a RUL-0/1/2 flag by adding a 0 (like 4 to 04) and transposing the positions of the flags (south-east-north-west for RUL-0/1/2, but something else for INRULs; I can't remember off the top of my head). The only INRUL flags that can be translated to RUL-0/1/2 are 0 to 4. This is how Flex pieces can be made based off of INRUL code and not just RUL-1 and RUL-2 code.

Well, that shows how much I know, because anything that's not 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 11, and 13 is just Greek to me. (But I already know half the Greek alphabet...) But with your teaser, you really did miss one Rail flag...

ANd as a side note, I've been thinking that the RHW should also have Minicurves, because even the MIS network bends are geometrically atrocious.
<INACTIVE>
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Indiana Joe


Swordmaster

Yay, NAM geekery ;D

Quote from: memo on October 21, 2013, 03:36:50 PM
More important to note by far is that Willy is the one and only person out there who really knows the rail flags! :thumbsup: It's rather like he's doing magic tricks than maths.

You're too flattering :)  I'm sure Tropod had a fairly thorough understanding of the whole business.


Quote from: memo on October 21, 2013, 03:36:50 PM
I've actually never encountered the furry creature...

That's what the 42 flag is for ;D


For your reference Ganaram, these are the rail flags as I visualize them:



These are mirrors of each other:
  1 and 3
  11 and 13
  21 and 23
  42 and 22
  32 and 52

(And the INRUL flag order is W N E S -- exactly the opposite of RUL-0.)

I assume you're talking about the 4 flag that I missed out on. I deliberately did since like you described, it's only usable in puzzle pieces (as far as I know, at least).

Other than that, I wouldn't use the term overrides to describe INRULs. I see them as the basic building block that defines what your transit laying tools do (more underrides than overrides as such). Absence of specific INRULs results in the cursor drawing red tiles saying "Unsuitable area to build network". But that's perspective, I assume.


Cheers
Willy

whatevermind

This is amazing work you're doing here! Beautiful to say the least, and the geometries are incredible.  &apls

rooker1

I always knew there was a huge amount of work put into this type of modding but never really understood how much. A huge thank you from me to you Willy and all others that do this type of thing for our game to get better and better everyday.
Great work Willy! This is going to be monumental and your name will echo in the Hall of the gods. (Not that your ego wasn't big enough already)

Robin :thumbsup: &apls
Call me Robin, please.

krashspeed

#317
Quote from: Swordmaster on October 21, 2013, 02:59:26 PM
There's a problem with props this small in that their shadows not always show (at least not on my system).

I've ran into this problem before and I found that making the LOD at least 2.1 meters tall solved the shadow problem.

Can you tell me how many of the bumpers are needed for the mod? Is it just an 1 ortho and 1 diag.?


Indiana Joe

Ortho and diagonal for both dual and single track rail.  I think Willy has also started work on FARR stubs, but he'd have to give you info about that.

Swordmaster

We'd also need 18.5°, -18.5°, 26.5° and -26.5°. The negative rotations are necessary for the mirrored T21s.


Cheers
Willy